Selected quad for the lemma: church_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
church_n	according_a	discipline_n	word_n	2,732	5	3.7329	3	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A78433	A sober ansvver, to a serious question. Propounded by Mr. G. Firmin minister of the church in Shalford in Essex. viz. Whether the ministers of England are bound, by the Word of God, to baptise the children of all such parents, which say, they believe in Jesus Christ: but are grosly ignorant, scandalous in their conversation, scoffers at godliness, and refuse to submit to church-discipline, the negative is not sufficiently defended. Which may serve also as an appendix to the diatribe with Mr. Hooker, lately published, concerning the baptisme of infants, of parents not confœderate. By Daniel Cavvdrey pastour of the church at Great Billing in Northampton-shire. Licensed, printed, and entred, according to order.	Cawdrey, Daniel, 1588-1664.	1652 (1652)	Wing C1636; Thomason E683_23; ESTC R206820	21,614	39

so_o long_o as_o wicked_a person_n continue_v member_n and_o the_o church_n let_v they_o alone_o they_o may_v challenge_v baptism_n which_o one_o sentence_n confute_v as_o it_o contradict_v both_o his_o question_n and_o practice_n in_o his_o refusal_n to_o baptise_v the_o child_n of_o such_o and_o at_o once_o give_v we_o a_o answer_n to_o all_o his_o argument_n follow_v but_o we_o shall_v further_o consider_v what_o he_o say_v to_o show_v his_o mistake_n and_o give_v he_o full_a satisfaction_n the_o next_o undertake_n be_v to_o prove_v that_o such_o as_o in_o the_o question_n be_v not_o fit_a to_o be_v member_n first_o thus_o member_n be_v visible_a saint_n but_o such_o be_v not_o visible_a saint_n ergo_fw-la 1._o we_o must_v distinguish_v between_o a_o first_o admission_n into_o a_o church_n and_o continuance_n in_o a_o church_n by_o such_o as_o be_v bear_v of_o member_n of_o a_o church_n such_o if_o now_o to_o be_v admit_v in_o their_o own_o person_n be_v not_o fit_a to_o be_v member_n nor_o aught_o to_o be_v admit_v but_o if_o child_n of_o member_n prove_v ignorant_a or_o scandalous_a they_o be_v to_o be_v continue_v and_o account_v member_n till_o they_o be_v legal_o convict_v and_o cast_v out_o we_o grant_v such_o a_o one_o be_v not_o qualify_v sufficient_o to_o make_v a_o member_n nor_o aught_o to_o be_v continue_v continue_v such_o but_o the_o church_n ought_v to_o reform_v he_o or_o eject_v he_o which_o be_v partly_o his_o own_o word_n but_o then_o while_o the_o church_n be_v in_o reform_v he_o he_o be_v a_o member_n and_o consequent_o have_v right_a to_o give_v his_o child_n baptism_n he_o shall_v have_v prove_v with_o respect_n to_o the_o first_o and_o main_a question_n that_o such_o be_v not_o member_n during_o the_o church_n toleration_n of_o they_o and_o then_o infer_v their_o child_n have_v no_o right_n because_o child_n of_o non-member_n 2._o church-member_n and_o visible_a saint_n be_v take_v in_o scripture_n sometime_o improper_o even_o such_o as_o in_o the_o question_n ignorant_a scandalous_a etc._n etc._n be_v salute_v with_o the_o whole_a church_n as_o saint_n 1_o cor._n 1._o etc._n etc._n and_o call_v brethren_n 1_o cor._n 5.11_o 2_o thess_n 3.14,15_o now_o brethren_n and_o member_n be_v equivalent_a term_n if_o they_o be_v account_v brethren_n they_o may_v be_v account_v member_n in_o a_o large_a sense_n as_o he_o confess_v pag._n 41._o 3._o when_o we_o say_v a_o profession_n of_o the_o faith_n be_v sufficient_a to_o qualify_v a_o man_n to_o be_v make_v or_o continue_v a_o member_n we_o do_v not_o mean_v a_o bare_a profession_n with_o his_o mouth_n that_o he_o believe_v in_o jesus_n christ_n though_o visible_o he_o live_v like_o a_o infidel_n but_o thus_o at_o least_o when_o nothing_o in_o his_o life_n appear_v to_o the_o contrary_a 43._o contrary_a conversatinot_n scandalous_a he_o seem_v to_o require_v no_o more_o pag._n 43._o though_o there_o be_v yet_o no_o great_a positive_a sign_n of_o his_o holiness_n thus_o we_o think_v the_o eunuch_n at_o least_o simon_n magus_n be_v admit_v this_o indeed_o be_v sufficient_a for_o admission_n but_o as_o there_o must_v be_v more_o to_o continue_v such_o in_o the_o church_n so_o there_o must_v be_v something_o positive_a of_o obstinacy_n in_o ignorance_n or_o gross_a wickedness_n in_o life_n to_o cast_v out_o again_o the_o church_n can_v upon_o the_o negative_a if_o once_o admit_v cast_v they_o out_o nay_o nor_o upon_o positive_a appearance_n but_o after_o legal_a proceed_n with_o they_o therefore_o so_o long_o they_o be_v to_o be_v account_v member_n etc._n etc._n upon_o this_o ground_n his_o second_o argument_n pag._n 14._o fall_n also_o if_o say_v he_o a_o bare_a profession_n be_v sufficient_a than_o none_o can_v be_v cast_v out_o for_o the_o vile_a sin_n heresy_n etc._n etc._n because_o he_o be_v the_o same_o now_o as_o when_o he_o be_v admit_v the_o consequence_n be_v unsound_a and_o proof_n like_o it_o for_o when_o he_o be_v first_o admit_v upon_o his_o profession_n no_o such_o scandal_n appear_v but_o now_o it_o do_v therefore_o he_o be_v not_o the_o same_o that_o he_o be_v when_o admit_v the_o three_o argument_n be_v like_o the_o former_a very_o weak_a a_fw-la rebel_n oppose_v christ_n in_o his_o visible_a kingdom_n be_v not_o fit_a to_o be_v a_o member_n of_o it_o because_o no_o subject_n i_o answer_v he_o be_v not_o fit_a to_o be_v admit_v if_o no_o member_n before_o but_o fit_a to_o be_v continue_v till_o trial_n of_o reformation_n be_v past_a and_o this_o himself_n confess_v after_o pag._n 17._o of_o which_o hereafter_o a_o rebel_n be_v a_o subject_a though_o not_o a_o honest_a subject_n till_o reform_v or_o outlaw_v or_o cut_v off_o and_o we_o desire_v to_o see_v the_o place_n in_o scripture_n where_o those_o who_o be_v within_o the_o outward_a covenant_n be_v present_o discovenanted_n if_o they_o walk_v contrary_a to_o the_o condition_n of_o the_o covenant_n object_n all_o be_v not_o convince_v that_o church-discipline_n be_v a_o ordinance_n of_o god_n answ_n i_o speak_v say_v he_o of_o such_o as_o have_v be_v convince_v and_o acknowledge_v it_o from_o matth._n 18.15_o but_o yet_o will_v not_o submit_v to_o it_o reply_n then_o say_v we_o a_o man_n not_o convince_v of_o it_o may_v be_v a_o member_n though_o he_o refuse_v to_o submit_v to_o discipline_n if_o out_o of_o ignorance_n only_o of_o this_o particular_a but_o this_o qualification_n be_v not_o in_o his_o question_n but_o general_o if_o he_o refuse_v to_o subject_v to_o church-discipline_n to_o all_o his_o authority_n ancient_a and_o modern_a pag._n 15._o etc._n etc._n that_o more_o than_o a_o bare_a profession_n be_v require_v to_o make_v a_o member_n we_o assent_n but_o still_o with_o our_o distinction_n that_o more_o be_v require_v to_o the_o first_o admission_n than_o to_o the_o continuance_n of_o one_o bear_v a_o member_n in_o the_o church_n and_o this_o lead_v we_o to_o that_o consideration_n of_o a_o church_n to_o be_v now_o constitute_v &_o one_o already_o constitute_v p._n 17._o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v not_o now_o in_o constitute_v but_o a_o succession_n for_o many_o year_n to_o this_o he_o say_v that_o which_o constitute_v a_o church_n continue_v it_o a_o church_n if_o then_o a_o bare_a profession_n be_v not_o sufficient_a to_o make_v a_o member_n nor_o be_v it_o enough_o to_o continue_v a_o man_n a_o member_n of_o a_o church_n we_o answer_v both_o proposition_n be_v faulty_a the_o minor_a for_o we_o have_v prove_v that_o a_o profession_n of_o faith_n nothing_o appear_v to_o the_o contrary_a will_v constitute_v a_o member_n and_o so_o a_o church_n of_o many_o member_n though_o all_o hypocrite_n the_o major_n because_o more_o be_v require_v to_o a_o first_o admission_n than_o to_o continuance_n in_o the_o church_n as_o be_v evident_a in_o man_n of_o year_n convert_v from_o infidel_n a_o personal_a profession_n of_o faith_n be_v necessary_a to_o such_o but_o their_o child_n be_v admit_v and_o continue_v without_o it_o by_o their_o birth_n privilege_n etc._n etc._n till_o they_o give_v evidence_n of_o their_o ignorance_n or_o scandal_n and_o be_v orderly_o proceed_v with_o for_o their_o reformation_n and_o this_o be_v his_o own_o resolution_n and_o remedy_n to_o reform_v they_o without_o a_o new_a constitution_n for_o so_o he_o say_v let_v churches_n be_v constitute_v according_a to_o the_o rule_n and_o so_o continue_v or_o mark_v it_o exercise_v discipline_n and_o reduce_v they_o to_o their_o first_o constitution_n this_o make_v it_o clear_a that_o there_o be_v another_o way_n to_o reform_v a_o constitute_v but_o corrupt_a church_n than_o first_o to_o constitute_v a_o church_n viz._n discipline_n but_o then_o i_o will_v object_v 1._o how_o can_v we_o exercise_v discipline_n i_o say_v not_o where_o no_o government_n be_v settle_v but_o when_o the_o party_n refuse_v to_o submit_v to_o discipline_n as_o not_o convince_v of_o the_o divine_a authority_n of_o it_o 2._o will_v he_o have_v man_n ignorant_a or_o scandalous_a or_o refuser_n of_o discipline_n sudden_o eject_v not_o so_o he_o say_v not_o that_o i_o mean_v we_o fall_v present_o upon_o excommunication_n before_o we_o have_v try_v other_o mean_n and_o patient_o wait_v well_o than_o the_o person_n be_v yet_o a_o member_n and_o the_o church_n a_o church_n in_o be_v or_o constitute_v else_o no_o discipline_n can_v be_v exercise_v by_o it_o though_o corrupt_v then_o have_v those_o member_n under_o cure_n right_a to_o all_o ordinance_n for_o themselves_o and_o they_o and_o so_o the_o church_n need_v no_o new_a constitution_n but_o if_o his_o argue_v be_v good_a our_o church_n be_v no_o true_a church_n our_o member_n no_o true_a member_n for_o the_o great_a part_n have_v no_o right_a to_o ordinance_n for_o themselves_o or_o they_o why_o else_o be_v they_o debar_v from_o both_o sacrament_n and_o

a_o sober_a answer_n to_o a_o serious_a question_n propound_v by_o mr._n g._n firmin_n minister_n of_o the_o church_n in_o shalford_n in_o essex_n viz._n whether_o the_o minister_n of_o england_n be_v bind_v by_o the_o word_n of_o god_n to_o baptise_v the_o child_n of_o all_o such_o parent_n which_o say_v they_o believe_v in_o jesus_n christ_n but_o be_v gross_o ignorant_a scandalous_a in_o their_o conversation_n scoffer_n at_o godliness_n and_o refuse_v to_o submit_v to_o church-discipline_n the_o negative_a be_v not_o sufficient_o defend_v which_o may_v serve_v also_o as_o a_o appendix_n to_o the_o diatribe_n with_o mr._n hooker_n late_o publish_v concern_v the_o baptism_n of_o infant_n of_o parent_n not_o confoederate_a by_o daniel_n cawdrey_n pastor_n of_o the_o church_n at_o great_a bill_v in_o northamptonshire_n mark_v 10.14_o suffer_v the_o little_a child_n to_o come_v unto_o i_o and_o forbid_v they_o not_o for_o of_o such_o be_v the_o kingdom_n of_o god_n license_v print_v and_o enter_v according_a to_o order_n london_n print_a for_o christopher_n meredith_n at_o the_o sign_n of_o the_o crane_n in_o paul_n churchyard_n 1652._o to_o the_o judicious_a but_o indifferent_a reader_n it_o be_v as_o the_o reverend_a author_n of_o the_o question_n now_o before_o we_o say_v in_o the_o very_a entrance_n of_o his_o epistle_n to_o the_o reader_n a_o very_a sad_a and_o uncomfortable_a state_n of_o a_o disease_a church_n when_o the_o physician_n be_v at_o difference_n concern_v the_o way_n of_o cure_v the_o patient_n this_o as_o in_o other_o thing_n by_o other_o be_v real_o exemplify_v in_o himself_o and_o one_o mr._n jeanes_n in_o a_o learned_a tract_n of_o his_o entitle_v the_o want_n of_o church_n government_n no_o warrant_n for_o a_o total_a omission_n of_o the_o lord_n supper_n who_o both_o intend_v the_o cure_n of_o their_o disease_a flock_n go_v clean_o contrary_a way_n to_o effect_v it_o he_o be_v so_o far_o from_o deny_v child_n of_o the_o most_o scandalous_a the_o privilege_n of_o baptism_n that_o he_o admit_v such_o parent_n to_o the_o lord_n supper_n plead_v the_o necessity_n of_o that_o ordinance_n and_o his_o own_o want_n of_o power_n to_o amend_v or_o keep_v they_o away_o our_o author_n on_o the_o other_o side_n not_o only_o keep_v such_o parent_n from_o the_o lord_n supper_n but_o also_o deny_v baptism_n the_o other_o sacrament_n to_o their_o child_n the_o one_o way_n seem_v to_o some_o to_o tend_v to_o the_o profanation_n of_o that_o ordinance_n the_o other_o to_o the_o division_n if_o not_o the_o destruction_n of_o the_o church_n by_o make_v all_o at_o least_o the_o great_a part_n of_o the_o child_n of_o congregation_n little_o better_o than_o infidel_n and_o which_o of_o of_o these_o two_o way_n of_o cure_n be_v best_a or_o worst_a be_v hard_o to_o say_v i_o shall_v say_v nothing_o at_o present_a of_o the_o former_a but_o with_o leave_n something_a of_o the_o latter_a with_o as_o much_o mildness_n and_o meekness_n as_o i_o can_v for_o he_o say_v true_o he_o have_v not_o so_o handle_v the_o question_n as_o to_o deserve_v a_o sharp_a answer_n pag._n last_o have_v he_o see_v which_o i_o conceive_v he_o have_v not_o a_o tract_n late_o come_v forth_o call_v the_o inconsistency_n of_o the_o independent_a way_n with_o scripture_n and_o with_o itself_o he_o have_v find_v a_o diatribe_n there_o with_o reverend_n mr._n hooker_n about_o almost_o his_o very_a question_n which_o either_o may_v have_v prevent_v his_o publication_n or_o have_v give_v he_o occasion_n to_o alter_v or_o enlarge_v his_o thought_n in_o some_o particular_n his_o ground_n be_v most_o of_o they_o take_v from_o mr._n hooker_n and_o the_o answer_n and_o argument_n against_o he_o fall_v full_a upon_o his_o own_o the_o difference_n between_o they_o be_v not_o great_a if_o any_o at_o all_o the_o one_o mr._n hooker_n require_v a_o explicite_fw-la covenant_n to_o make_v church_n member_n and_o allow_v no_o child_n of_o the_o most_o know_a and_o godly_a parent_n not_o confederate_a the_o privilege_n of_o baptism_n the_o other_o seem_v to_o deny_v baptism_n only_o to_o the_o child_n of_o those_o who_o be_v gross_o ignorant_a scandalous_a etc._n etc._n i_o say_v he_o seem_v only_o to_o do_v this_o for_o both_o he_o speak_v suspicious_o sometime_o towards_o a_o explicite_fw-la covenant_n and_o his_o question_n as_o it_o stand_v in_o terminis_fw-la not_o be_v at_o all_o explicate_v if_o not_o right_o take_v may_v seem_v also_o to_o exclude_v the_o child_n of_o such_o as_o submit_v not_o to_o church-discipline_n though_o know_v and_o godly_a and_o pag._n 9_o of_o his_o epistle_n he_o require_v express_o as_o a_o qualification_n of_o a_o member_n that_o he_o profess_v his_o subjection_n to_o discipline_n which_o be_v tantamount_n if_o not_o the_o same_o with_o the_o independent_o explicite_fw-la covenant_n yet_o herein_o he_o be_v to_o be_v commend_v that_o he_o be_v not_o so_o rigid_a as_o they_o be_v in_o his_o qualification_n or_o admission_n of_o member_n and_o see_v we_o be_v accidental_o fall_v upon_o the_o explicite_fw-la covenant_n i_o shall_v consider_v what_o he_o say_v of_o it_o in_o his_o epistle_n though_o i_o may_v refer_v he_o to_o the_o tract_n aforesaid_a where_o it_o be_v full_o handle_v in_o pag._n 16._o of_o his_o epistle_n thus_o he_o speak_v some_o minister_n scorn_v the_o notion_n that_o a_o explicit_a covenant_n be_v the_o form_n of_o a_o church_n visible_a and_o some_o professor_n be_v so_o rigid_a for_o it_o that_o without_o it_o they_o deny_v all_o church_n of_o the_o late_a sort_n be_v mr._n hooker_n himself_o though_o sometime_o he_o grant_v a_o implicit_a covenant_n sufficient_a for_o part_v 3._o of_o his_o survey_n pag._n 11._o he_o say_v express_o non_fw-la confoederate_a person_n in_o their_o sense_n be_v non_fw-fr member_n of_o the_o church_n etc._n etc._n and_o consequent_o their_o child_n have_v no_o title_n to_o baptism_n which_o be_v one_o of_o our_o author_n argument_n in_o pag._n 10._o of_o his_o book_n borrow_v from_o mr._n hooker_n part_n ●_o p._n 24._o whereby_o he_o unmember_v and_o unchurche_n all_v not_o so_o constitute_v for_o my_o part_n i_o scorn_v not_o such_o a_o notion_n but_o with_o apollonius_n and_o other_o think_v it_o lawful_a though_o not_o necessary_a as_o the_o form_n to_o the_o be_v of_o the_o church_n the_o impsicite_fw-la be_v of_o itself_o confess_v to_o be_v full_o sufficient_a but_o i_o require_v a_o proof_n of_o the_o necessity_n of_o it_o all_o that_o can_v reasonable_o be_v say_v be_v but_o this_o that_o it_o be_v very_o requisite_a and_o expedient_a in_o corrupt_a church_n in_o a_o time_n of_o reformation_n to_o renew_v the_o covenant_n with_o god_n and_o that_o include_v the_o covenant_n of_o pastor_n and_o member_n and_o of_o member_n one_o with_o another_o to_o walk_v with_o god_n and_o one_o another_o in_o all_o relation_n our_o author_n himself_o seem_v to_o grant_v the_o implicit_a covenant_n may_v serve_v to_o the_o esse_fw-la formale_a but_o then_o in_o a_o manner_n recall_v his_o grant_n again_o when_o he_o say_v there_o though_o explicitenesse_n be_v not_o essential_a to_o the_o esse_fw-la formale_a of_o a_o church_n yet_o you_o will_v find_v it_o almost_o essential_a to_o the_o esse_fw-la of_o a_o government_n etc._n etc._n else_o when_o you_o come_v to_o exercise_v discipline_n you_o will_v find_v some_o member_n explicit_o stubborn_a to_o spurn_v the_o implicit_a covenant_n at_o their_o heel_n true_o they_o that_o be_v such_o can_v as_o well_o spurn_v the_o explicite_fw-la also_o and_o in_o this_o looseness_n or_o rather_o want_v of_o church-government_n can_v remove_v from_o his_o church_n to_o another_o and_o ease_v themselves_o of_o his_o most_o explicite_fw-la covenant_n they_o of_o who_o he_o speak_v there_o that_o acknowledge_v discipline_n as_o a_o ordinance_n and_o say_v to_o he_o that_o if_o they_o have_v not_o promise_v he_o to_o submit_v to_o discipline_n he_o have_v no_o power_n over_o they_o speak_v not_o aright_o for_o by_o the_o explicite_fw-la covenant_n of_o christianity_n they_o be_v bind_v implicit_o to_o all_o god_n ordinance_n of_o which_o this_o be_v one_o and_o he_o have_v thereby_o power_n over_o they_o and_o by_o the_o implicit_a consent_n to_o church-government_n in_o that_o implicit_a covenant_n which_o be_v in_o every_o parochial_a congregation_n pag._n 17._o they_o be_v bou●d_v to_o he_o and_o he_o have_v power_n over_o they_o though_o they_o do_v not_o explicit_o promise_v he_o to_o submit_v to_o he_o yea_o that_o covenant_n both_o general_a of_o christianity_n and_o special_a in_o join_v with_o a_o parochial_a congregation_n if_o he_o will_v improve_v it_o and_o press_v the_o obligation_n of_o it_o upon_o his_o people_n be_v sufficient_a to_o persuade_v they_o to_o submit_v and_o authorise_v he_o to_o exercise_v discipline_n upon_o they_o etc._n see_v review_n of_o survey_n part_n

profane_a yet_o my_o pre-parent_n be_v godly_a it_o seem_v by_o this_o new_a doctrine_n to_o use_v his_o own_o word_n this_o poor_a child_n must_v not_o now_o go_v and_o lay_v hold_v of_o this_o promise_n and_o spread_v it_o before_o god_n etc._n etc._n for_o sure_o if_o god_n will_v not_o so_o much_o as_o give_v to_o this_o grandchild_n the_o outward_a seal_n of_o the_o covenant_n by_o virtue_n of_o the_o proparent_n or_o grandfather_n it_o can_v plead_v the_o promise_n which_o come_v by_o he_o let_v his_o own_o experience_n in_o make_v use_n of_o these_o promise_n teach_v he_o more_o mercy_n and_o charity_n to_o grandchild_n but_o he_o argue_v against_o we_o thus_o if_o predecessor_n give_v right_a than_o the_o child_n of_o a_o immediate_a parent_n apostatise_v from_o the_o faith_n and_o excommunicate_v from_o the_o church_n may_v be_v baptise_a etc._n etc._n and_o then_o the_o child_n of_o our_o english_a apostate_n in_o turkey_n may_v be_v baptize_v etc._n etc._n we_o fear_v not_o to_o affirm_v they_o may_v if_o either_o they_o will_v resign_v they_o up_o to_o those_o that_o be_v christian_n their_o kindred_n or_o other_o or_o any_o will_v undertake_v for_o their_o education_n but_o in_o particular_a first_o for_o the_o case_n of_o a_o apostate_n it_o be_v answer_v elsewhere_o in_o the_o diatrib_n p._n 188._o and_o we_o add_v now_o that_o a_o apostate_n renounce_v his_o christanity_n renounce_v also_o with_o it_o his_o baptism_n and_o so_o turn_v heathen_a and_o that_o alter_v the_o case_n except_z as_o afore_o he_o be_v willing_a to_o give_v it_o up_o to_o such_o as_o will_v undertake_v for_o it_o but_o than_o second_o for_o the_o excommunicate_a parent_n for_o if_o but_o one_o be_v a_o member_n the_o child_n have_v right_a to_o baptism_n for_o such_o parent_n we_o say_v their_o case_n be_v not_o the_o same_o with_o a_o apostate_n or_o heathen_a for_o though_o in_o some_o respect_n a_o excommunicate_a person_n be_v worse_a than_o a_o infidel_n as_o the_o apostle_n speak_v of_o a_o man_n that_o provide_v not_o for_o his_o family_n though_o not_o excommunicate_v because_o he_o shall_v be_v better_o etc._n etc._n yet_o in_o regard_n of_o state_n and_o church-priviledge_n he_o be_v better_a for_o first_o he_o be_v for_o state_n still_o a_o christian_n and_o retain_v his_o baptism_n which_o a_o infidel_n have_v not_o 2._o he_o be_v a_o member_n still_o though_o disease_a much_o and_o a_o member_n under_o cure_n as_o the_o leper_n of_o old_a shut_v out_o of_o the_o camp_n be_v which_o a_o infidel_n be_v not_o he_o be_v i_o say_v a_o member_n in_o a_o large_a sense_n as_o he_o speak_v of_o a_o scandalous_a person_n tolerate_v p._n 41._o 3._o heathen_a and_o non-member_n of_o church_n when_o they_o be_v take_v into_o a_o church_n they_o be_v baptise_a they_o be_v his_o own_o word_n pag._n 42._o but_o so_o be_v not_o a_o excommunicate_a person_n therefore_o his_o state_n be_v better_a than_o they_o he_o be_v neither_o heathen_a nor_o non-member_n ergo_fw-la a_o member_n at_o large_a four_o if_o in_o regard_n of_o church-priviledge_n he_o be_v no_o better_a than_o a_o heathen_a yet_o that_o be_v still_o in_o respect_n to_o himself_o not_o to_o his_o child_n who_o be_v bear_v a_o christian_a of_o a_o christian_a have_v right_o to_o baptism_n as_o shall_v appear_v in_o some_o case_n at_o least_o the_o child_n that_o be_v debar_v baptism_n for_o the_o parent_n excommunication_n fall_v into_o this_o punishment_n either_o when_o it_o be_v bear_v before_o his_o excommunication_n or_o after_o he_o be_v excommunicate_v if_o before_o his_o excommunication_n it_o be_v bear_v but_o not_o baptise_a before_o he_o be_v excommunicate_v than_o his_o excommunication_n can_v hinder_v its_o baptism_n for_o it_o be_v bear_v a_o member_n of_o the_o church_n be_v bear_v of_o one_o that_o be_v yet_o a_o member_n when_o it_o be_v bear_v and_o the_o personal_a sin_n of_o the_o parent_n can_v prejudice_v its_o right_n baptism_n make_v not_o a_o member_n it_o be_v one_o before_o as_o he_o speak_v pag._n 25._o of_o a_o jew_n child_n a_o member_n before_o circumcision_n whence_o thus_o i_o argue_v upon_o his_o own_o principle_n a_o member_n of_o the_o church_n may_v be_v baptise_a but_o a_o child_n of_o a_o wicked_a not_o yet_o excommunicate_v be_v bear_v a_o member_n ergo_fw-la it_o may_v be_v baptise_a though_o it_o shall_v happen_v as_o it_o may_v that_o it_o be_v not_o baptise_a before_o the_o excommunication_n it_o remain_v then_o to_o say_v either_o it_o lose_v this_o right_a to_o baptism_n if_o it_o be_v bear_v after_o the_o parent_n excommunication_n or_o not_o at_o all_o and_o now_o we_o be_v fall_v upon_o his_o argument_n p._n 9_o if_o i_o may_v baptise_v the_o child_n of_o a_o excommunicate_a person_n than_o i_o may_v baptise_v a_o child_n of_o a_o non-member_n of_o a_o church_n and_o so_o of_o a_o indian_a or_o turk_n for_o they_o be_v non_fw-fr member_n etc._n etc._n and_o he_o be_v no_o other_o in_o respect_n of_o communion_n in_o church-priviledge_n we_o answer_v by_o distinction_n of_o the_o assumption_n i_o may_v baptise_v the_o child_n of_o a_o non-member_n that_o be_v of_o one_o that_o at_o present_a be_v account_v no_o member_n as_o be_v plain_a in_o the_o case_n of_o a_o child_n bear_v but_o not_o baptize_v before_o the_o parent_n excommunicate_v and_o therefore_o this_o consequence_n of_o he_o be_v unsound_a if_o the_o parent_n be_v a_o non-member_n the_o child_n be_v a_o non-member_n also_o for_o that_o child_n be_v a_o member_n bear_v though_o the_o parent_n at_o present_a stand_v excommucate_v it_o be_v true_a only_a of_o a_o infidel_n or_o apostate_n who_o be_v no_o member_n but_o a_o excommunicate_a person_n be_v in_o some_o sense_n a_o member_n still_o as_o be_v say_v above_o and_o then_o to_o baptise_v such_o a_o one_o be_v not_o to_o baptise_v a_o non-member_n that_o observation_n of_o reverend_a gillespy_n from_o buxtorf_n etc._n etc._n be_v not_o very_a orthodox_n though_o true_a perhaps_o in_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o latter_a jew_n that_o a_o child_n of_o a_o excommunicate_a ought_v not_o to_o be_v circumcise_v it_o be_v if_o do_v a_o corrupt_a invention_n and_o tradition_n of_o their_o own_o of_o which_o there_o be_v no_o ground_n in_o scripture_n and_o therefore_o pag._n 32._o he_o do_v well_o to_o wave_v it_o we_o shall_v not_o stand_v to_o vindicate_v those_o holy_a and_o learned_a man_n zanchy_a and_o perkins_n who_o plead_v for_o the_o baptism_n of_o child_n of_o parent_n excommunicate_v p._n 11._o that_o which_o have_v be_v say_v may_v help_v towards_o it_o we_o come_v to_o a_o new_a question_n start_v p._n 13_o whether_o profession_n of_o faith_n in_o christ_n though_o parent_n be_v gross_o ignorant_a scandalous_a &c_n &c_n be_v sufficient_a to_o make_v a_o man_n and_o continue_v he_o a_o member_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n to_o which_o we_o say_v in_o general_a that_o our_o main_a question_n be_v not_o about_o make_v or_o continue_v a_o man_n a_o member_n of_o a_o church_n but_o whether_o a_o man_n qualify_v as_o in_o the_o question_n continue_v and_o tolerate_v a_o member_n of_o the_o church_n can_v give_v right_a to_o to_o his_o child_n baptism_n and_o this_o he_o do_v express_o resolve_v in_o the_o affirmative_a at_o least_o three_o time_n once_o thus_o of_o a_o jewish_a parent_n wicked_a not_o excommunicate_v doubtless_o so_o long_o the_o immediate_a parent_n be_v not_o cast_v off_o from_o give_v a_o right_a to_o his_o child_n p._n 13._o again_o in_o the_o same_o pag_n if_o a_o member_n be_v very_o scandalous_a and_o the_o church_n let_v he_o alone_o that_o person_n may_v challenge_v any_o ordinance_n in_o the_o church_n both_o baptism_n and_o lord_n supper_n again_o pag._n 34_o wicked_a person_n so_o long_o as_o they_o continue_v member_n and_o the_o church_n let_v they_o alone_o they_o may_v challenge_v baptism_n whence_o i_o will_v conclude_v the_o contradictory_n to_o his_o conclusion_n in_o this_o manner_n the_o child_n of_o a_o scandalous_a member_n tolerate_v may_v be_v baptise_a but_o the_o child_n of_o a_o scandalous_a member_n not_o excommunicate_v be_v the_o child_n of_o a_o scandalous_a member_n tolerate_v ergo_fw-la it_o may_v be_v baptise_a and_o a_o minister_n may_v lawful_o baptise_v it_o all_o he_o say_v to_o this_o be_v this_o pag._n 13._o and_o 34_o our_o question_n be_v whether_o such_o person_n shall_v be_v let_v alone_o be_v not_o that_o church_n too_o blame_v but_o by_o his_o favour_n the_o question_n be_v not_o whether_o such_o person_n shall_v be_v suffer_v or_o the_o church_n be_v too_o blame_v to_o suffer_v they_o but_o whether_o such_o be_v suffer_v in_o the_o church_n their_o child_n ought_v to_o be_v baptise_a and_o though_o he_o undertake_v the_o negative_a yet_o he_o determin_n the_o question_n here_o affirmative_o