Selected quad for the lemma: church_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
church_n	according_a	body_n	member_n	3,100	5	7.2395	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A65881	The Quakers plainness detecting fallacy in two short treatises : I. The first in answer to an abusive epistle, styl'd, The Quakers quibbles, and the comparison therein between the Muggletonians and the Quakers, proved absurd and unjust, II. The second, being a brief impeachment of the forger's compurgators (in their Quakers appeal answered) whose injustice, partiality and false glosses have given the chief occasion of these late contests / by George Whitehead.	Whitehead, George, 1636?-1723.	1674 (1674)	Wing W1949; ESTC R38608	33,527	88

his Dialogue that they were the Quakers Answers c. but this Writer against us carps and traduces on every slight Occasions Would the Baptists think it fair to be publisht in Print for Lyars Fools and unjust on such an Account But for W.P. his accusing T. Hicks with being both a Lyar and Forger he hath both proved him such an one in his Books and further urged to prove his Charge against him publickly since his Abettors have endeavoured to cover and uphold him But it seems it is the Language Lying and Forgery and Lyar and Forger that is found Fault with here and not the Application thereof when as the Scriptures prove such Language as Thou lovest Lying rather then to speak Righteousness ye are Forgers of Lyes c. See Psal. 52.3 Job 13.4 Joh. 8.55 Rev. 2.2 3.9 21.8 Tit. 1.12 His accusing some of the Quakers with quibling as much about the Word Body as about the Word Christ I look upon it as no better then quibbling against us instead of proving us guilty by plain Scripture for to say the Church of Christ is his Body and that there is one Body and one Spirit and that they that are joyn'd to Christ are Members of his Body this is according to Scripture-Language as also that the Body is one and hath may Members so also is Christ and are not the Saints spiritually united into Christ and unto his spiritual and glorious Body Is Christ Head of his Church in any other Body then that whereof they are Members and united to him And will this admit of Christ's being Head of two separate Bodies or of Three Christs as his stating the Distinction upon G. Keith That Christ was most properly taken for the Divine Nature less properly for the human Nature least properly for the Carkas● pag. 28. whereas this is so far from G. Keith's proving Three Christs that the words Human Nature and Carkass were J. Ives's not G. K's as the first is herein granted though G. Keith owns the words Divine Nature Manhood and Body of Christ and confess'd the Name Christ to be given to the Body when crucified and dead though less properly then to the Divine Nature and intire Manhood since that the Son of God was the Christ of God before he took upon him the Body prepared for him as J.I. hath granted in his Book Inocency above Impudency p. 37. By his Argument That Christ is the Son of God Ergo the Son of God is Christ as I answer'd though I could not be heard that the Name Christ was mutually and reciprocally given in Scripture to the Body and Spi●it of Christ as Christ dyed and was buried when it was properly the Body of Jesus for his Soul or Spirit was immortal did not dye but was in Paradyse when his Body was buried and that Spiritual Rock which ●ll Israel drank of was Christ. Doth the Scripture herein make Two Christs No sure No more will G.K. his Distinction bear Three Christs in Three d●stinct Persons as the Man unscripturally and quibblingly words it pag. 28. And further It is very strange that W. P. in correcting the Baptists and others to set up his own as the True Church must be impos'd upon to produce some of those Gifts or Visible Demonstrations or Eminent Signs as were in the Church in the Apostles Dayes pag. 29. and 9. when as he never made that a Reason or Ground to correct others for want of such Signs as the Gift of Tongues Miracles c. but for some Un-Christian Principle or Practice however in this Case our present Opposers do argue as exactly like the Jesuits Papists against the Protestants for correcting them as if they had serv'd seaven Years at Rome But let it be remember'd how the Baptists themselves were in this manner excepted against after their first Separation from other Churches and gathering into a Church of their own It was objected against them If the Lord be with us where be all those Miracles which our Fathers told us of Where be the Gifts of working Miracles which were in the primitive time c And what Defence did the Baptists make for themselves herein but that the seeking after and Working Miracles in that outward way that is sometimes in Scripture spoaken of and that these men intend is not essential to a Believer and so not to a Church nor an Administrator See p. 69. of their Book entitul'd A Way to Sion by D. King printed at London reprinted at Edinburgh 1656. Also That Miracles did not prove them Disciples That Miracles do not now distinguish a true Church from a false Ibid. p. 135 136. Yet as if they had quite forgotten these things and the Oppositions and Sufferings which they formerly met withal they bring their Adversaries Objections against us And seeing if we should only tell men We are in the Truth the Light within them will testifie to our Way it is demonstrable by the Effects that we have the Spirit and are in the Power of God and that it is within while the Baptists so say they have it as he saith p. 31 32. and that all this will not decide the Controversie or manifest to our Opposer a real Discrimination between us to demonstrate us to be in the Truth Now as we have not this way imposed a Faith upon our Opposers so we shall not thus impose upon either this man or the Baptists but desire he and they may without Prejudice seek and try further and Try all things and hold fast that which is Good and we doubt not but where or in whom the Spirit of Christ lives and rules it will manifest it self by its Fruits for it is Self-Evidencing and will discover who are the Lord 's peculiar People and who not But this Quibbler imposeth upon W. P. to bring something for Proof of his Church which the Baptists nor no False Church can pretend to and produce pag. 30. Though this seems to be a hard Task especially as to what may be pretended yet it is no difficult mater for W. P. and many more to produce or demonstrate some such Effects of that Living Testimony Presence and Power of God among us as no false Church can produce although herein neither W. P. nor any of us will admit of Prejudiced Envious Spirits to be our Judges or Witnesses in these matters but we have a Record in Heaven and also in many Consciences of the blessed Power and Presence of God with us amongst us Turning many from Darkness to Light and from Satan's Power to God And many there are among us gathered out from Baptists and other Churches and Peoples who are Living Witnesses both of the blessed Operation and Effects of the Power and Ministry of Christ Jesus among us which yet if the Baptists should object and say They see no such thing I answer That is because they have not Honestly made Tryal but stood in Prejudice and Gainsaying

asking them 1. If the Son of God was not in Being in the Beginning and from Everlasting 2. If he was not truly the Christ of God being the Son of God before he took Flesh upon him or was born of the Virgin Mary 3. If Carnal Eyes could see him simply as the Eternal Son of God or his Glory as of the only begotten of the Father 4. Where doth the Scripture say that the Human Nature is the Christ 5. Or that Christ is a Person or Personal Being consisting of Human Flesh and Blood without us 6. Or that his Glorious Body in Heaven is a human Body 7. Whether the Man Christ Jesus the Mediator be really separate and remote from his Church or Members so as not to be present in his Church here on Earth 8. If Christ be separate remote or divided from his Church how is he the Head thereof or his Church a living Body without or divided from the Head If you profess you know Christ do not impose your implicite Notions unscriptural and uncouth Terms about him but declare your Experience of him Farther as to what we hold concerning the Christ of God in Answer to his 20th Page 1. Christ who was the Word in the Beginning in due Time came in the Flesh. 2. That though the meer Body of Jesus was not the entire Christ yet the Name Christ is sometimes given to the Body though not so properly as to the whole Man Christ. 3. That God was in Christ and the Father and Son are inseparable 4. That the Distinction of Father and Son is not only nominal as this Opposer implies against us but real in the divine Relation of Father and Son the Son as being the only-begotten of the Father and also known as Co-Workers in the Order and Degrees of Manifestation and Discovery 5. The Man 's accusing the Quakers with this Doctrine That the Father is the Son and the Son the Father and so God the Christ of himself and Christ the God of himself Somewhat like as Muggleton does in this Particular p. 20. Though these are none of our Words yet this favours of meer Ignorance and Envy we do not own any such Separation between God and Christ as these Words The Christ of himself and the God of himself do imply Socinian-like but that the Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father as also that the Son is the mighty God the everlasting Father the Prince of Peace see how plain it is Isa. 9.6 6. That Christ is not a Person without us p. 21. is not our Doctrine or Phrase that I know of or remember only that the Title is thought too low and unscriptural to give to the Christ of God many Men having Gross Apprehensions about the Phrase PERSON WITHOUT But Christ is confest by us both as without us and within us 7. We are charged that we must hold That Christ dyed not but only the Body that he assumed that was prepared for him p. 21. Now you Promoters of this Q. Quibbles for an Ingenuous Pamphlet I ask you if any more of Christ properly dyed then the Body Do you hold that his Soul Spirit or his Divinity dyed If not the Charge is foolish and silly if you do then are you like Reeve and Muggleton who have bla●phemously said that Christ's Soul and Godhead-Life dyed When as Christ's dying and being buried 1 Cor. 15. was properly that the Body dyed and was buried to wit the Body of Jesus See Mat. 27.58 Mark 15.43 45. Luke 23.52 46. and 24.3 John 20.21 As to what we say about seeing the Son of God spiritually and not carnally Or between the seeing him savingly and not so seeing him c. The Man is hugely taken with J. Ives's Answer to our Distinction That he cannot but own it to be very good and pertinent Jeremy ' s Words were saith he That then I or any man might say by the same Reason that W. Penn or G. Whitehead was never seen with bodily or carnal Eyes because the Excellency better Part of them viz. their Souls was never seen though their Bodies be seen which is not the Man p. 23. To which I reply It 's not improbable that if we had made such a Comparison you Baptists would have cryed out O Blasphemy 1. To compare the Names W. Penn and G. Whitehead with the Name Christ. 2. To compare the seeing G.W. W.P. with the seeing the Christ of God 3. It implies the Name of Christ to be no more excellent then the Name George or William Oh Ignorance in the Abstract 4. Did not the Name of Christ as well concern the more excellent Part or Divine Nature as the Manhood and far Excell those fleshly or outward Names of Distinction given to us as meer Men and Creatures and that by Earthly Parents or Relations and not from a Spirit of Prophecy as to respect some divine Qualification or new Nature for that must have a new Name therefore I must look upon J. Ives's Answer and Similitude to be both impertinent and irrational Sect. III. Our Opposer self-condemned his irreverent Quibbling about Christ and their Ignorance of the Spirit 's Evidence who seek for Signs c. AS for your standing Gaping well nigh an Hour for an Answer p. 24. If many of you had not gaped and hidiously bawled often to hinder our Answers but had been civil you had been more answer'd then you were His Charge That we are fit for no man to dispute with except some of Mugleton's Disciples p. 25. is far enough from approving himself an indifferent Penn But will the Baptists own this that they are such as Muggleton's Disciples when they propose for or admit of Disputation with us As for W. Penn's using the Words Lying and Forgery and Lyar and Forger in his Books against Thomas Hicks this the Man accounts gros Language that will hard●y stand with good Manners nor suit with a civiliz'd man much less with a good Christian and to say it is a Lye is Billings-gate Rhetorick more fit for Scoulds that are duck'd c. p. 25. This is made a very capital Crime with this Author who bids us speak Evil of no man but be gentle shewing all Meekness c. And yet he himself calls W.P. the Author of a Lye a Fool unjust p. 13. and calls us Fools Obstinate c. and so hath condemned himself both as a partial and a self-contradictory Pen. But why is W.P. the Author of a Lye The Pretence is for taking the Words out of T.H. 's Mouth before he had made an End of his Sentence as when he said most of the Particulars he would prove W.P. then saying most of them then not all which was upon a Stop that T.H. made there as he and many others apprehended Howbeit when T.H. added The rest he would prove by Consequence W.P. insisted not on the first Words but refused to admit of his Consequences be having told the World in

c. Unjustly and wickedly comparing Muggleton and the Quak●rs or the Quakers and Muggletonians insinuating that both of them may be Impostors for its possible saith he and all this to render us as odious as may be How now Baptists is this your indifferent Penn and ingenuous Writer Can you think he hath well palliated Matters either with Indifferency Moderation or Impartiality between us Or that such Work will make a Pacification or end the Controversie No no such deceitful Dealing and hypocritical critical Pretences will stand you in no stead And pray further observe how inconsistent your indifferent Pen is with himself in his self-Contradictions as 1. Between his commending W.P. for an excellent Rhetorician and fluent Tongue and so was Cicero p. 6. And his telling us You give Occasion to Persons to think and judge you a perverse Generation without Order or Rule Rime or Reason p. 25. Was Cicero such an one then 2. Between his proposing that if W. P. had this Gift of a fluent Tongue and good Voice meerly by turning Quaker and not partly natural and partly acquired at Schools that would more convince him of the Truth of W. P ' s Christianity c. p. 7. And his confessing That good Saint Paul saith Though I speak with the Tongues of Men and Angels and have not Charity I am become as sounding Brass or a tinkling Cymbal p. 9. So then it is Charity not the Gift of Tongues that is a certain Proof of Christianity 3. Between his saying Thou madest thy self the Author of a Lye and shewdst thy self not only a Fool but Vnjust p. 13. And saying To say it is a Lye that is neither Answer nor Argument therefore in Love I should advise thee to leave off all such Billins-gate Rhetorick and gross Language See here how he hath condemned that as Billings-gate Rhetorick and gross Language which himself hath used 4. Between his saying to W.P. Perhaps thou art of a different mind from some of thy Friends as it is reported thou hast brought them off from some ridiculous Fancies p. 20. And speaking of W. P.'s being engaged with such a People and having received their Principles thereby thinking himself oblieged now to maintain them p. 26. How should he so differ with us his Friends being engaged with us and oblieged to maintain our Principles Which we doubt not of his Sincerity in whatsoever be here insinuated to the contrary Now after the great Noise these Baptists have made against us as being no Christians and the several Attempts made to prove us none as also their begging Questions and calling for an Evidence to prove our selves Christians and not telling us what Evidence the Author of the Quakers Quibles proposeth something as Evidence in order to convince him of W. P's Christianity and what must that be but the Gift of Tongues immediately inspired which he saith the Members of the true Church in the Apostles Time had and that if he can shew any one in our Church that hath such a Gift or Gifts given him upon his Conversion to our Way it would put a clear Difference betwixt him and the Baptists c. p. 7. Also he asketh Where is the Demonstration of the Spirit with thee in Power and mighty Signs p. 9. What say you Baptists to this Proposal Must this conclude the Controversie between you and us that if we can produce such a Sign or Evidence it shall be taken as a Proof of our Christianity but if not then no Christians And who then shall escape your Censure in this Case that have not the Gift of Tongues immediately inspired Have not the Jesuites in this wise argued against the Protestants and reformed Churches calling for some such Sign or Miracle to ascertain them of their being the true Church or led by the Spirit otherwise have urged them to return to the Church of Rome And at this rate how will you Baptists escape your own Condemnation of being no Christians or Members of Christ's Church if you cannot exhibit such an Evidence as the Gift of Tongues inspired among you But to say the Members of the true Church that is in general without Exception had that Gift is a great Mistake though some had see 1 Cor. 12.28 29 30. And what if God will not bestow such Gifts and Signs now must we therefore be no Christians But for ought he can learn our Friends and Church is as low poor naked and destitute herein as the Baptists Church viz. as to such former Signs and Wonders p. 8. And what follows Are we not therefore the true Church Are the Baptists willing to be thus concluded on this Ground By that Accusation viz. Whilst you are both in the dark you wrangle and fight confute and confound one another to little Purpose p. 8. He hath condemned the Baptists as well as us for wrangling and fighting in the dark c. It were well they would as well see themselves thus reproveable herein as promote the said Pamphlet as such an ingenuous excellent Piece whereby however they intimate to the World that they are not come into the Light but are wrangling and fighting in the dark But what Clamour what Noise what Tautologies what Disorder what Discord what Confusion your Vnchristian Carriage c. p. 10. Oh partial Man many hundreds can testifie that this Disorder unchristian yea and uncivil Carriage and frequent Interruptions to divert us from our Charge against T. H. were stirred up against us by our Adversaries as I never met with Disorder and unfair Dealing from Priests or others mall the Disputes I have been concerned in Touching the Complaint of our giving Occasion by a solemn Offer for Thousands of People to meet together and that to the Hazard of their Limbs and Lives c. p. 10. He tells us not who gave the Occasion of that Solemn Offer was it not the Baptists by their publick Meeting at Barbican before for T. H. his Purgation and possessing the People against us Boasting in our Absence aggravated with several apparent Lyes spread the City and Countryes by the Baptists and their Agents against us as purposely leaving the City shifting the Meeting being afraid to meet them c And why did not W. K. and the rest seriously consider and prudently foresee the Danger of the Meeting at that Place as also the Trouble that would follow upon them by such injurious and base Attempts against us in our Absence And indeed it was not prudently done in them to occasion and appoint point such a Meeting to be in such a slight and weak Meeting House as theirs at Barbican Is it not well known that we proffered them a Meeting-House more secure wherein there was no such Danger For two of us speaking at a Time and crying hear hear that was to hear him that was to speak p. 11. And what if many at once cryed hear hear that was intelligible and there was need enough this was sometimes when it was