preaching cleanse all Theoph. Seeing yee urge preaching Cosm. go to shall not this be a particular poynt of it that a◠the monuments and remainders of Idolatry and all the occasions and entisements to it be removed What wil become then of your ceremonies The truth is Cosm. as long as that man of sin hath place upon the face of the earth they wil never be cleansed And as for preaching it is appoynted by God not to cleanse them but to consume them and him both 2. Thess. 2. Indeed Cosm. ye may be the Popes Pensioner for the paines ye take to vent and advance his wares Cosm. Yet seeing other things Theoph. which have been abused to superstition are purged and retained as for example our Temples and Churches wherein the true God is now truely worshipped tell me why may not these things in like manner be purged and retained Theoph. I desired you before Cosm. to hold off your unlike examples but yee doe not therefore by answer either to content you or convict you I say 1. Temples or Kirkes have a needfull use both natural and civil in the commodious and comely containing of people for the publick practise of Gods worship So the abuse may be purged and they retained But the best use of your ceremonies is but abuse which being removed they fall as idle and fectlesse things to the ground 2. Albeit a Kirk be the place wherein God is publickly worshipped yet it hath no place or state in the exercise of that worship as any part poynt or ceremony thereof as your formes have 3. Sometimes some needful circumstances may require even the Temples to be removed and razed as the Temples of Idols were in the dayes of Constantine and Theodosius two godly Emperours Cosm. Would your Ministers Theoph. in their doctrine tell the people that these ceremonies should be and are used without any Papistical superstition and opinion of merit of inherent holines and efficacie or of necessity as if they were essential parts of Gods worship this would purge all Theoph. If they should so doe Cosmophile how would you purge them of the slander of inconstancie who before in their doctrine have told the people so oft that such ceremonies should not be used at all because superstitious And albeit they should tell and tell again as ye prescrive what assurance have ye that therby the hearts and minds of simple people should be purged of that naturall inclination they have to superstition so long as the objects occasions of it stand in their eyes And so much the rather when they see such things so violently enforced as if they were matters of greatest efficacie and necessity in Gods worship I must say Cosm. little wit makes meekle travell Were it not better to fill up the pit and so to take away all danger of falling in it then to spend time unnecessarily to warn folks to go by it who notwithstāding possibly through forgetfulnes carelesnes or want of light might fal into it Preachers preaching may be better imployed then to be made slaves to your ceremonies by giving continuall warning to saif from their ill when no sound warrant can be given for their good Cosm. Now say to the second poynt Theoph. may not the authority of King and Kirk lawfully reduce and impose these formes Theoph. They may not Cosm. in respect their hands are already bound by these former bands they must come from some new found land or go to it who make this thing Cosm. But answer me Theoph. is there not lawfulnesse and strength in their authority to do it Theoph. I have answered that already in effect Cosm. But I will adde this further It is true God hath given authority to both but with this restriction and direction sayes the Apostle Paul 2. Cor. 13. 10. not for the destruction but for the edification of his Kirk For the power of authoritie is the power of equity and not of injury Now by urging to re-edifie that which was justly destroyed and to destroy that which was lawfully built what humane authority can free the doers from transgression Gal. 2. or themselves from guiltinesse Cosm. That holds onely Theoph. in matters of substance according to the Apostles meaning and not in matters of ceremonies Theoph. It holds both in substance and ceremony Cosm. where the edification of a Christian soule may bee hurt or the course of the Gospell hindered Cosm. Ye curbe the power and authority of the King and Church strangely Theoph. that denieth it to them even in things indifferent Cosm. I have told you Cosm. that there is nothing indifferent that breakes these Apostolicall rules Mans authority is not absolute in things indifferent but i◠is tied to these former scriptures from the which if it vary it wants the warrant of divine authority Cosm. But Theoph. this twofold Christian authority takes away all perril of offence and prejudice against these rules Theoph. One thing sayd and another thing seen Cosm. We see sensibly it rather continues and increases offence For the hearts of the lovers of the truth of King and Kirk are exceedingly grieved when they see humane authority enforcing what divine authority hath forbidden And the hearts of the enemies to all wonderfully comforted when they see authority so favour and further their formes For then there is no perill of offence when the expediencie and utilitie of the use of things indifferent is evident but if that be not the injunction of authority is very inexpedient unprofitable and doubleth the danger Cosm. The Papists Theoph. have but smal cause of comfort hereby For ye see how farre we differ from them in poynts of doctrine Theoph. But if ye wil call to mind Cosm. how they place almost the life of their religion in their ceremonies and that by them the very power and purity of true religion have been peece and peece weakned and worn out ye shal easily perceive that they cannot but conceive a great hope that we shal with time by following and affecting so fervently their formes fall in likewise upon their faith Cosm. Ye perceive not Theoph. the wise intent of authority to draw the Papists to us by conforming in some measure in outward shewes or ceremonies to them Theo. Wel Cosm. that intent had never yet a good event For it is the express precept of God in scripture both of old new testament that we should be in every thing◠so farr as possibly can be unlike to Idolaters We are cōmanded to come out of Babel both in conscience and countenance in inward affection outward fashion in substance and ceremony We are commanded to beware of Idols to hate and cast away their garments coverings ornaments and to eschew every appearance of their evil It proves never well to bee wise above that which is written Before yee had yeelded to their ceremonies ye should have seen them in some measure yeild to your substance Ye have been over sudden
call ye the bands of their fidelity Theoph. Their oath and their subscription to that confession of faith which two do bind us also which are professors Cosm. O but these bonds may be loosed Theoph. I confesse they may be violently broken but lawfully loosed they cannot be For an oath is the strongest bond that the tongue can make and subscription is the strongest bond that the hand can make If ye breake these bonds tell me what shall bind a man Cosm I tell you Theoph. our superiours King and Church may loose them Theoph. No Cosmophile that may they not For both consented yea and by their authority presented this confession and urged these bonds on all binding first themselves then others to hold fast their profession according to that confession during all the dayes of their life So the bands of the grave must bind al before we can be loosed froÌ„ these bonds Indeed Cosmophile there is harder and faster knots in them then ye consider of namely in the band of the oath Cosm. What be these I pray you Theophile Theoph. In that band there is a double and indissoluble knot The one the perswasion of the truth The other the promise for the truth In the former the takers of the oath solemnly professed their perswasion wrought in their hearts by Gods spirit through his word of the undoubted truth of that religion doctrine and discipline professed in the Kirke of Scotland at that time and after to be continued therein and by the contrary the detestation of all false religion Papistry and all the particular poynts thereof as they were then condemned by our kirk In the latter they solemnly promised to maintaine defend profâ—sse and practise that true religion in all the poynts thereof and to abhorre and detest the contrary Cosm. It is true Theophile that band and the knots thereof holds fast upon the substantialll poynts of religion doctrine and discipline which aâ—e unchangeable but not so upon the changeable rites and ceremonies about them Theoph. Surely Cosmophile the matter of the oath and all the particulars thereof are like a holy Taberâ—acle so joyntly and soundly compacted and knit together that the loosing of one pin bringâ—th perrill to shake all loose So albeit some might seem to be indifferent in themselves severally and apart considered yet ye must not thinke it 〈◊〉 thing indifferent to single and pick out the small pinnes of it as yee account them at your pleasure lest all as is like this day fall downe about your eares Cosm. But will you consider Theophile that your formes and ceremonies for the which and ours against the which yee stand have not entred in that oath being but things indifferent Theoph. Yes but they have Cosmophile for in it ours in generall termes are included and yours excluded and abjured Farther this oath is relative and hath respect to the former confession bookes of discipline and acts of assemblies By the which particularly and expresly our formes were received ratified and passed under practise as agreeable to Christs ordinance and yours rejected and debarred out of our Kirk as Antichristian rites Cosm. That oath Theophile so farre as it concerned these outward and alterable formes or the like was but indefinite and conditionall that is such formes as it should please the Church for the time to appoynt continue or change according to that power and libertie she did professe herselfe in sundry acts of assemblies to have over such indifferent things Theoph. It was both determinate and absolute Cosmophile even in these formes and such was the mind of our Kirk at that time which as I sayd in the former answer received ours and rejected yours So that her Profession of her power in the change of things indifferent extends not to their formes which are so particularly and by name excepted and the great seale of that solemne promise set upon the continuance in reteining of the one and in outholding and withstanding of the other Cosm. I think Theophile that was an unadvised Oath in respect of these indifferent formes which should not be made the subject of an Oath seeing they are so subject to changes Theoph. I think Cosmophile ye are evill advised to condemne so wise and worthy a Kirk consisting both of preachers and professors of all estates in an errand of so great importance as if they had not known nor keeped these inseparable conditions of a lawfull oath which the Lord himselfe expressed Ierem. 4. 2. That an oath should bee in Truth and so not false in Iudgement or discrerion and so not rash In Justice and so not unrighteous or unequitable The first and last respect chiefly the matter of a lawfull oath and the mid the manner Now that this oath was given in truth and to the truth it is cleare because they swore their resolution and perswasion of the truth of these heades contained therein That it was given in judgement not rashly or unadvisedly as yee say it is cleare by the words of the confession where it is sayd that after long and due examination of their conscience being throughly resolved in the trueth by the word and Spirit of God they gave it That it was given in justice it is cleare because all the particulars they swore too were and are agreeable to GODS word serving for the edification of the Kirke and overthrow of the kingdome of Sathan and of his eldest sonne the Antichrist and that their formes which yee call indifferent were not such in the judgement of our Kirke when they appoynted the one and discharged the other is evident by the religious and grave reasons given for their so doing As that ours were according to Christs institution agreeable to the simplicitie of the Evangell profitable for the preservation of the purity of Gods holy worship and eschewing of the occasions and countenance of superstition and conformity with Rome but yours by the contrary Cosm. I see then Theophile yee are loath to grant these formes to be indifferent Theoph. That I am Cosm. and although I should yee would be little neerer your purpose For it is neither the unadvisednesse of the maner nor the the indifferencie of the matter of an oath will loose the band thereof once layd on as long as the indifferent matter is not turned to a sinfull use or abuse Although such cases might possibly hinder the making of it it is onely the unlawfulnesse looses all The oath which Iosua and the Princes of Israel gave to the Gibeonites Ios. 9. 14. 15. was unadvisedly made for they consulted not sayes the text with the mouth of the Lord yet it was advisedly keeped for the religious reverence to the great and glorious name of God If yee be able to prove that our formerly established formes are turned unlawfull unprofitable inequitable profane or superstitious goe to try your wits Your Bishops and Doctors publickly professed they would not they could not Cosm. Yea but for all that
Papists rejoycing say Take up your Ministers now yee may see if their talking be worthy of trusting who whiles affirmes whâ—les denies whiles disallowes whiles allowes the selfe same things Surely a pulpit contradiction drawes with it a selfe conviction and a just imputation of levity and inconstancie in preaching farre worse then if it were in practise and that which is worst of all a comfortles desertion of the spirit of power and grace Cosm. But they have been too rash Theophile in their Sermons speaking against these things So they must not be ashamed to recant and confesse their oversight Theoph. Yee are but rash in so saying They had the warrant of Gods word and the warrant of the Acts both of Kirk and kingdom for them to speak against such superfluous and superstitious ceremonies So recantation hâ—re were but the incantation of some transporting passion as feare favour avarice ambition and confession of an oversight were a great oversight in the not constant professing of the formerly avowed truth I have seen the day Cosm. when even your principall pillars have spoken zealously against them also But this late indifferencie of theirs with the following commodity hath cooled and quenched their former fervencie Cosm. Now to come to your third impediment Theoph. let me see what undutifulness the receiving back and practising of these ceremonies can import upon your ministers part to their predecessors in this Church Theoph. By so doing Cosm. they should so farre as in them lyeth discredit all their former care knowledge and conscience of so many grave godly and learned men who in so many lawfully called and well constitute Assemblies by constitutions wisely and advisedly enacted according to Godâ— word did establish in our kirk these forms of ours so long possessed to the great good and edification thereof and did banish yours back to Rome whence they came yea for-faulted them never to be reduced or restored Cosm. Yet Theoph for all yee have sayd if these things be in themselves in different or lawfully why may they not be received Theoph. Yee would bee an evil Musitian Cosmophile yee sing ever one song and strike ever upon one string But give me licence to question you a little Why confound ye indifferencie and lawfulnesse Seeing to speake properly and strictly indifferencie is in respect of the nature of a thing and lawfulnesse in respect of the use of it It is true we have a liberty in things indifferent to doe or not to doe but when wee come to the particular and determinate act or use of them if they be found expedient and profitable then properly are they counted and called lawful But this is your custome Cosmophile under the generalitie ambiguitie and plausible sound of words passing by the proper signification of them to colour all your purposes which you propone that yee may steale away a conclusion by appearance where there is no logical or lawful consequence Cosmoph I wil answer to your first question Theophile I call them things indifferent in themselves which are neither commanded nor forbidden by Gods word and so neither good nor evil in themselves Theoph. Then if so be Cosmoph are ye not forbidden by Gods word and told that it is not good to plead and persecute so hotly for them as yeâ— doe And is this a good argument of yours Those things are indifferent in themselves that is neither commanded nor forbidden neither good nor ill Therefore we vvil have them reduced and repossessed in our Church Indeed Cosmophile ye have need to learn better Logicke from your Doctors For it is not the indifferencie of a thing that will vvarrant the admission farre lesse the readmission of it againe into a Church Yee must come to the use wherein a thing is neither evil nor good lawful nor unlawful expedient nor inexpedient And if yee can prove that your formes in their use are expedient and profitable and ours not at all or lesse then yours I shal approve Cosmoph Thinke yee then Theophile that there is such such difficultie or rather impossibilitie in that probation Theoph. I think it certainly Cosm. that even your Philosophers stone that yee so brag and boast of shal not be able to turn this lead into gold Cosm. And why so Theophile Theoph. Will ye Cosm. put them to the triall of that true touch stone of these Apostolicall rules order comelinesse edification peace charity Rom. 14. 1. Cor 14. ye shall easily perceive what yee and they both prove Let wofull experience this day be judge and give out sentence The Papist and Protestant are so confounded in the use of your formes that hardly in outward shew can they be discerned answeres that to order The obscuring and defiling vaile of Antichristian ceremonies drawen upon the comely putitie and simplicitie of the Evangell agreeth that with comelines The weak ones offended distracted with doubting what hand to turne to the Papists heartned and hardned in their superstition the stronger and wel resolved grieved to see things go so makes this for edification By dissention and division the bowels of a motherly Kirke rented stands this with peace and charity So these rules clearly reveale how perillous and pernicious your formes are put case in themselves they were never so indifferent Cosm. Will yee look Theoph. to the example of our neighbour Kirke so wise and learned which useth and maketh so much of these formes Theoph. Wee will keep us within the boundrod Cosm. and say nothing or little of our neighbours among whom many both worthy preachers and professors have ever and yet doe stand out against them Onely this farre for the form and state of their Kirk their case and ours is very farre different They are free although not of every conscientious band yet of the bands which beside these bindeth us strictly As 1. the band of Oath 2. Subscription 3. â—o long peaceable possession 4. publick profession 5. uniforme practise all standing and pleading for our formes and against yours They have continued and kept them still which our Kirk did so advisedly cast out and so long hath holden out as pestilential clouts of that Romish infective superstition So if ye would leave your unlike examples and your jangling in generals wherein ye take roome to reele and â—unne to many starting holes and if ye would consider particularly what is the singular case of our Kirk in this respect ye would be forced to confesse that it is not a thing lawfull nor indifferent to reduce them And albeit in the judgement of some Theologues where some of them are in a Kirk and cannot without the disturbance of the peace thereof be removed they may be tollerate yet all in one minde affirme that being once removed their reduction is not tollerable The consideration of this poynt Cosm. I hope shall close your minde if not your mouth Cosm. What Theoph. is not pest-clouâ—s and cloathes oft-times cleansed and so applyed to good use Will not carefull
Cosm. in going awayward to Rome to meet them but who sees that they have any mind to meet you mid-way Ye think to draw them to you but ye have chosen the wrong cords their own ceremonies by the which they will draw you neerer to their Babel then ye shal do them to your Ierusalem And if they seem to draw neere to you by such means ye had need to beware of Iudas kiss that is treachery cruelty under the cloke of hypocrisie Cosm. Ye are too much afraid for so few honest innocent ceremonies the peaceable receving wherof wil make you quit of the cumber of any moe Theoph. It is not your word or vote will cleanse them they have been so oft convict condemned and to receive one ceremonie is to receive all For they are not loose bnt linked as in a chain so inseparably that draw one draw all It is but your policie to let some few that look most smoothly appeare to hide the rest which wil follow hard on Cosm. Let alone Theoph. trouble not your selfe your shallow wit cannot conceive the draught of so deep wisedome Theoph. It may wel be a deep wit but it seems to be no divine wisedom to trouble the peace of so vvell a constitute Kirk by intruding such idle ceremonies as if there were worth in them to countervaile the meanest point of that peace Surely even an approved politick wit would be loath to make such an interchange seeing any one of the least points of the peace of Christs Kirk is worth all your gracelesse and peacelesse ceremonies Cos. Now I desire to have your particular answer severally first for the authority of our Kirk Have not the conclusions of that late assembly holden at Perth credit to take away all scruples and to satisfie your conscience anent the receiving and practising of these formes Theoph. Certainly they have not Cosm. for it is Scripture and not Kirk-conclusions which settles and satisfies the conscience As for that Assembly the unlawfull constitution the violent and posted proceeding and the crafty closing of it wel enough known to all declares those conclusions to have been rather collusions and delusions Cosm. What meanes the man Doth the credit of that reverend Assembly weigh so light in the ballance of your braine Theoph. I am not speaking fantasie Cosm. but verity I wil put in bellance with that unlawful assembly which was so divided in judgement and consent all the former worthy and well constitute Assemblies for the space of moe then a Iubile of yeares consenting in one minde and mouth Then let a constant and conscientious hand hold it and ye shal sensibly perceive how light and little worth your one is in reducing these superstitious formes in respect of the weight and worth of all those in removing them Cosm. Wel Theoph. ye should not reason against the Acts of an Assembly nor set your selfe as a Iudge to censure them and your superiours Theoph. Ye see Cosm. it is not I but many godly and grave Assemblies reason against one pretended assembly and doe justly chalenge it of levity and perjurie for restoring those so deservedly forefalted Romish rites Farther ye know that how sever the Lords injunctiōs are to be receved without questioning yet the ordinances of the Kirk are presented to us not with the necessity of beleeving but with the liberty of judging For albeit the judgment of jurisdiction to censure belongs not to me yet I should have the judgement of discretion to satisfie my conscience by the warrant of the word in all poynts of obedience to my superiours Cosm. Say what you please Theoph. against that Assembly it wil stand and the decrees of it wil have place ay and while they be reduced Theoph. Stand as it wil Cosm. to the formalist it shal not stand in my conscience neither shal the decrees thereof have place in my practise neither should it or the decrees thereof stand to others seeing both it and they stand against all good order and the wholsome doctrine of the word The good people perceive this and therfore they skar and skunner with the iniquity and vanity of the conclusions therof Where before they did ever willingly subiect themselves to the constitutions of our ancient Assemblies because they evidently saw the equity and the utility of the conclusions and lawful manner of their proceedings Cos It seemes then Theoph. ye mind to play the schismatike and make a separation seeing ye◠mean not to stand to the judgement of our Kirk Theoph. Your kirk Cosm. what doe you call your selves a kirk are ye comparing a kirk scarse cropen out of the cradle and a cripple halting kirk with a kirk so ancient so honorable and indued with such vvisedome and prudence by long and manifold experience which studied carefully to walke ever uprightly according to the truth of the Gospel As for schisme or separation it seems ye vvot not vvhat they meane For in the unitie both of judgement and practise we yet stand with the kirk wherein we were baptised and brought up and vvhereunto we gaue our right hand of fellowship and band of fidelitie which being broken by you ye may justlie bee called schismatikes both from this Kirk and from your selves also seeing ye have broken down the beautiful walles of our Ierusalem and have re-edified the cursed walles of Iericho Ye have built a Kirk to your self standing upon thritten rotten pillars but painted with ceremonial colours all of the workmanship of Rome Cosm. Now let me heare Theoph. what ye can say particularlie to the kings authoritie may he not lawfullie enjoyn these things Theo. Not Cosm. seeing beside that which hath been sayd alreadie they want the warrant of the word and ye know that the book of the law of God should lye ever open before his eyes to lead him in every point and appointment of any thing within the bounds of his authoritie that concerns the work of God and his holie vvorship Coms See ye not Theoph. the credit of his royall authoritie engaged to the advancement of these errands Theoph. I see it not Cos. for it was the credit and commendations of the good and godly Kings of Iuda to root out and remove Idolatry and all the monuments thereof from among Gods people and by the contrary a discredit and dispraise to those who either planted permitted or reduced them Cosm. But is he not a Prince wise learned and religious without a peere this day living upon the face of the earth who would bee loath to doe any thing but that which is lawful Theoph. I acknowledge he is and so was David a most worthy Prince and Prophet too yet he needed a Nathan both to draw him to repentance and to direct him in things concerning the house of God Cosm. There is not a minister Theoph. within his dominions yea joyn them all together that knoweth so well what belongs to the house of God as he doth Theoph. It may