not leave men to themselves but as Governours of the Church doe by power of the Keyes judge and bind the Gainsayers and cast the Refractory out of their Communion So then the Guides of the Church have the power of Publike Judgement to judge and define for others in matters of faith and worship and power of Iurisdiction to judge censure and cast out the disobedient and to private men is lest onely the Iudgement of discretion without which they cannot come to beleeve or serve God as they ought with reasonable service Rom. 12.1 CHAP. IX Of dissenting from the publike Judgement NOw for the using their reason and judgement against the Church or their dissenting from the definitions and practise of it we give no encouragement to that We 1. teach all Inferiours whether People or Priests when they finde cause of doubt or question against such definitions or practise to mistrust their owne reason and rather relye upon the publick Judgment than their own in every doubtfull case 2. That they which doubt still seek refolution and satisfaction from their Superiours modestly propounding their doubts and reasons and conscionably using all means to rectifie their judgment and satisfie their Conscience 3. If they cannot find satisfaction so as inwardly to acquiesce yet to yeeld external obedience peaceable subjection according as the condition of the matter questioned will bear In a word we require all that submission of judgement and outward compliance that may be due to an Authority not infallible yet guiding others by an infallible Rule and most highly concerned to guide them accordingly as being answerable for their Soules 4. We tell them the danger of gainsaying that they are to answer it to God and his Church That if they cannot approve the reason of their dissenting to the judgement of the Church they must expect to undergoe the Censures of it For the Church standing so obliged to answer for Souls and to preserve Peace and Unity and having therefore the advantage of Authority and publick judgement above all private persons it is also most reasonable it should have the advantage in the contestation with private persons and in the issue of such a businesse to proceed according to its own judgement and use the power it has against those that stand out And then is there a further answering it to God Thus it stands between every Particular Church and the Members of it betweene Superiours and Inferiours in it and in some proportion between every particular or National Church and the Catholick Church in receiving and holding the Definitions of Generall Councils and the Generall Practise of the Church Tough here a Nationall Church hath the advantage above private persons in the point of Judgement and dissenting Yet where it does dissent from other Churches generally erring it arises first from the use of reason and judgement in private persons discovering the errours for some in all Reformations must speak first and propounding them which being approved by the Judgement of that Church the Reformation follows as an Act of publick Judgement or as an Act of a National Church which though inferiour to the Catholick yet hath it judgement within it selfe for the receiving and holding the Definitions and Practises of the Church-Generall and may have possibly just cause of dissenting and reforming and can doe it regularly according to the way of the Church by Provinciall Synods which private persons dissenting from her cannot doe And this is considerable in the English Reformation which as it was upon publick Judgement of a Nationall Church in Provinciall Synods so will it not prove a dissenting from the Catholike Church or definit ons of true Generall Councils but of that more below when we come to triall by Antiquity And of this respect or submission due from every Particular Church to the General as it concernes the Act of this Nationall Church in the Reformation more largely in the first Chapter of my later Book For the present we are to speak of the possibility of dissent of Inferiours from Superiours and the use of reason and judgement necessary to it CHAP. X. Possibility of just dissenting THe submission and obedience spoken of as due to Superiours and their Judgement ought to take place in all cases where there is not something clearly against them that confessedly excels the Authority and Judgement of the present Governours as evidence of Scripture demonstration of reason and a conformable consent of Primitive Times the pure Ages of the Church Now that such a case or such a cause of using private judgement even to a dissenting from the publike may happen Reason and Experience tells us Because it is possible that such as have chief place in the publike Judgement National or General may neglect their duty at least the greater number of them to the overbearing of the lesse and through prejudice of Faction or other wordly respects may faile in determining and propounding the Truth For the promise of guiding them is conditional upon performing duty and that is not alwaies certaine in the greater part to the imposing of false Belief and false Worship So that it comes to be Error manifestus appearing so to be both by the Word of God and the conformable beliefe and practise of the firster Ages of the Church Here is place for Reason and Judgement of Inferiours to dissent upon such Evidence after modest proposall and demonstration of the Errour And to this in part accords the concession of Bell. lib. 2. de Concil Inferiours may not judge whether their Superiours have lawfully proceeded nisi manifestissimè constet intolerabilem errorem committi Now when I speak of private Judgement dissenting from the publick Judgement or generall practises of the Church and of the preservation of Truth and the Faith thereby I doe not speak of the Reason or Judgement of the People or Laity divided from all their Guides and Pastors but I include these who of what ranke soever dissenting from the publick either definition or practise are as men of private judgement in such a case These I say I alwayes include in such a just dissenting or falling off from any erroneous belief or practise prevailing in the Church For it cannot be imagined that God who promised to be with them and guide them should take away his Truth from all the Guides and Pastors of his Church and preserve it by the Judgement and Conscience of Lay people but that still however they which have chiefe place in the Church prove corrupt some Guides and Pastors though of lesse number and place shall be they that shall detect the prevailing Errours and preserve the Truth and this by due use of Reason and private Judgement Experience also tels us what they have proved that have been in chiefe place that have sate in Moses Chair and in St. Peters how many Hereticks at severall times among the Popes how a whole succession of Monsters through the tenth Age of which Bellarmine
sounds propter convenientiorem institutionem seu principium That Church being from Saint Peter and Saint Paul and therefore the most convenient example to shew the succession of Pastors and Doctrine For from thence he fetches his argument to confute those Hereticks that being pressed with Scripture did accuse it as he saith of obscurity as not to be understood of them who were ignorant of Tradition therefore he confutes them by the undeniable succession of the Churches and because Longum est saith he omnium Ecclesiarum enumerare successiones therefore he singles out the Roman as that which was maxima omnibus cognita à gloriosissimis Apostolis Petro Paulo fundata instituta there is the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a more convenient beginning of succession in that than in other lesse famous Churches and by the doctrine received from the Apostles and delivered down in that Church he confounds the Hereticks Now saith he with this Church because of such a beginning and succession every Church ought to agree and so they did then and therefore it was needlesse for him to instance in any other Church Thus are we also willing to deal with the Romanists at this day They being pressed with Scripture accuse it of obscurity and say as those Hereticks that Irenaeus had to deal with It is not to be understood by them that are ignorant of Tradition We therefore tell them of the Doctrine of Faith delivered down in all Churches and bring them to the Antient Roman Church which was glorious then for its foundation and preservation of true doctrine and tell them because of such an 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 they ought to agree with it now which they doe not in the main points between us and them controverted as abovesaid and in this particular of an Infallible Universal Judge for the whole Church ¶ Thus farre we have proceeded upon the first and chief Rule of Triall Scripture the Sufficiency and Evidence of it Now to the other CHAP. XXIX Of Consent of Antiquity OUr second Rule of Triall is Consent of Antiquity We say the Romanists cannot prove their Doctrines by that as they ought to doe if they will have them passe for Catholick for then according to Vincentius his Rule semper ubique they must be alwaies and generally held in the Church Yet is there a pretence made to it and great confidence and boasting among them of the Fathers not that they know they have indeed advantage by them as to the due proving of their cause but because the Protestants have freely and ingenuously spoken their Judgment of the Fathers and their authority Therefore the Romanists make advantage of it with their own Proselytes as if the Protestants declined all Triall that way Now should we speak with that liberty of the Fathers writings as they doe of the Scripture loading it with imputations of obscurity imperfection corruptions c. it might I hope be so much more justifiable in us as the divine authority of Scripture surpasses all humane writings But this we professe however they are obliged to disparage the written Word of God and a miserable cause it must be which obliges men to such a plea yet are not we obliged to detract any thing from the due worth of the Antient Fathers for take their Writings as they are we averre that the Popish faith cannot prove it self to be Catholick by them Yet if we say the Fathers were men and subject to error which the Scripture is not we doe but say what they ost acknowledge themselves If we say they have erred in several Ages and that many of them together with a general consent as in the Millenary belief the Infant communion and the place of faithfull Souls out of Heaven till the Day of Judgment we doe but say what the Romanist cannot deny who doe acknowledge the Fathers erred in these If therefore we say they are no Rule of Faith to us we doe but say what they of the Ages following thought that they were not bound to follow them in these errors after they were once detected and what the Romanists must acknowledge for they also have forsaken them in these If again we say the Writings of the Fathers have come through ill hands unto us which have corrupted or maimed the true and patched false and supposititious writings to them the Romanists cannot but acknowledge we have great cause to think there was more providence of God in the preserving of Scripture entire than the Writings of the Fathers Onely here is the mischief again they are obliged to speak any casualty that happens to Scripture and to make a noise of corruptions obscurity c. because they finde it too plain against them and are afraid the people should see it too but of the Fathers writings more rarely doe they acknowledge any such thing not because they have cause to joy of them as plain and full for the Romish faith but because their advantage is by their forged writings and the corruptions of the true ones also because those writings came through their hands for several Ages and so the false dealing that has been used becomes chargeable upon the professors of their cause False dealing I say what by the cunning of Monks that had those Writings in Manuscript what by their several editions of the Fathers what by their expurgatory Indexes In all which it is easie to see what labouring there has been to make the Antients speake the Language of their present Church Hence have they advantage not truly by the Writings of the Antients but such as serves to their purpose especially when to deal with those that are lesse learned whom they can turn to this or that place in such or such a Father knowing they are not able to judge whether the writing be supposititious or the place corrupted or whether the same Father elswhere expresses himself otherwise or be contradicted by other Fathers and there speaks onely his private opinion This caution Vincentius gives us in his Rules for Catholick doctrine cap. 39. Whatever any quamvis sanctus doctus Episcopus Martyr praeter vel contra though holy learned though a Bishop or Martyr holds beside or against the rest of the Fathers id inter proprias privatas opiniunculas it must be severed from the Publick doctrine and placed among private opinions Well though all this makes for the disadvantage of the Protestants that they have not the Fathers writings as they came from their own hands and pens but as through the hands of many Adversaries yet take them as they are with all the difficulties of finding what is truly theirs and what is the sense of it the Protestants never doubted to enter this kinde of triall by Antiquity not standing or falling by every thing we meet with in one or moe Fathers for the Romanists will not so but maintaining 1. That the Romanist cannot prove his Affirmative by a full and sufficient consent or
held and practised so yet may it remain the same Christian Church when it ceased to hold and practice so For we may likewise put the Question to them Where was your Church for divers Ages of the Primitive and first Times They will answer where it is now at Rome and elsewhere But we say that was our Church holding and practising for the main as we For where was there for those firster Ages a Romish Church holding and delivering the Canon of the Scripture as they doe now or pretending to an Infallibility as now or challenging Vniversal subjection as now where was there a Romish Church for 500 years that held Purgatory a point of Faith that taught Invocation of Saints for Catholick doctrine or that practised it in the publick Liturgie for about that time or that taught or practised Image-worship for a longer time or where was a Roman Church that taught and enjoyned Communion under one kinde for a 1000 years This is most notorious to them that are but reasonably acquainted with Antiquity Nor is Cardinal Peron's 18 cap. lib. 1. against the King touching the Agreement of the Antient and Modern Church any proof against it but a flourish only Now if they notwithstanding these and many other errors and corruptions by degrees crept in upon that Church will say Their Church is still the same with the antient Roman Church they must give us leave to say with more reason We notwithstanding we have cast off those corruptions are the same Christian Church yea and say it with more truth and advantage in as much as that which made the Romish or English Church before the Reformation to be a Church we have retained without the accrewing corruptions and so much more like the Church which was at Rome and in England in the first and purer Ages We say therefore we are the same Christian Church having lost nothing that made us so but only cast off many things that endangered our being so viz those many errors superstitions that tended to the destruction of that Christian faith which made us a Church As a man recovered from some pestilential or dangerous disease is the same man that before has lost nothing that made him so only now freed from the corruption that endangered his being so We set up then no new Church but reformed that which was freeing it from former corruptions And this makes a different Church but not a New Church a different Church I say according to accidental differences by which the same body may differ from it self at several times and the parts of the same body from one another at the same time so one Church may differ from it self at several times from other Churches yet they and it be parts of the Catholick Church but not according to Essential differences which constitute a Church as part of the Catholick and make it differ from another that is not so The English Church differed from it self as before and after Reformation yet the same Christian Church only before it had a Romish face and garb and apparel suitable and a body full of spots and sores After it appeared otherwise yet still the same body the same Church not lost any thing of that which made it so but only cast off accessory accidental corruptions For thus it stood between the Church of Rome and the Church of England before the Reformation They were both parts of the Catholick Church both built upon the same foundation that Catholick Faith which had been delivered down in all Ages that into which they and we are Baptized into they not yet daring to baptize into any points of their new faith that which they and we yet agree in which makes them a Church and part of the Catholick because they retaine that Faith still though clogged with many dangerous errors and superstitions in belief and practice While the Church of England was in Communion with them it also admitted of many superstructures Hay stubble and worse Errors superstitions which by degrees crept upon the Foundation and passe at this day in the Church of Rome to the great abuse of poor Christian Souls as Catholick Faith The work of Reformation was to retain the foundation and whatever was Christian and Catholick only to throw off the superstructures that burdened and shaked it These errors and superstructures after they appeared were complained of in all Ages by many that still held Communion with the Romish Church and History also assures us of many in several Ages that did actually cast them off and suffered themselves to be put out of the Romish Communion rather than admit of them and how many thousands more must we suppose to have been not recorded when 7000 were in Israel not so much as known to Eliah This we note not as if wee were bound to seek the Church only in those Reformers which were of a divided communion from Rome or to deny the Church to be in those of the Romish Communion but to shew that however those errors were for some Ages delivered as Catholick Doctrine by the greater and more prevailing party in that Church yet were they not held for such by many that continued in that communion and rejected actually by many thousands besides CHAP. II. The demand of Professors in all Ages We can shew it better than they WHen therefore they call upon us to name Professors of the Protestant faith in all Ages though it belongs to them rather to shew the Professors of their faith in all Ages their part being the affirmative asserting what we deny and it be a thing they are not able to doe for the five first and best ages as was above insinuated yet we answer them If by such Professors they mean those that held a distinct communion from the Roman Church it is not necessary to name such because the faith was preserved still in that Communion though with a great mixture of errors yet after those errors and corruptions grew to a height we can give examples in all Ages after of such Protestors against them divided from the Romish Communion and persecuted because of them and more abundant examples happily of such we might have had but that little is come down to us of those poor Christians beside what hath come from or through the hands of their professed Enemies Now in those examples we have so many instances not of new Churches set up but of the former reformed and representations of the Catholick Church in some part more pure in some part and that generally the greater more unsound First it is not necessary there should be such so professing in all points as we doe For here is a latitude of Truth and several degrees of Purity within which God is pleased to preserve his Church as both Reason and Experience demonstrate 2. There might be such so professing though not so visible and known as to be recorded 3. There were such so farre as the
doctrines were of the multa which Christ had to say and Tert. de praescript c. 5. tels us Hereticks alledged the Apostles delivered some things openly to all some things secretly to a few the very thing the Papists say and they proved it suth he by St. Pauls saying to Timothy Custodi depositum St. Iraen l 3. c. 2. shews Hereticks alledged the scriptures were obscure not to be understood by those that know not Tradition alledging for it that of St. Paul 1 Cor. 2. we speak wisdome c. Terp in his Book de resur tels us Hereticks cannot stand if you binde them de solis Scripturis quaestiones suas sistere to be judged by the Scriptures alone and in the same book calls all Hereticks Lucifugas scripturarum such as fly the light of the scripture And now we must say in the last place their usual objection of Hereticks alwaies alledging Scriptures and shunning Tradition is most vain as appeares by the former Testimonies As for their alledging scripture it made for the dignity and sufficiency of scripture Hereticks well knowing the Authority Scripture had in the Church and therefore that it was in vain to use other proofs without it and so the Romanists are necessitated as was said above Chap. 21. to pretend it for the proving of those points which they know and sometimes confesse are not grounded on scripture As for Hereticks shunning Tradition it is most true they carefully shunned that Tradition which delivered down the sense of scripture in the points of Faith through all Ages of the Church for to shun that was to shun the evidence and light of scripture But as for unwritten Traditions such as we and the Romanists contend about they shelter themselves under the darknesse of them made great advantage as we saw by pretence of them alledging the very same reasons and places of scripture for them as the Romanists do and so we leave them both well agreed in this point CHAP. XXV The evidence of Antiquitie in the point NOw for the evidence of Antiquity Though we are to speake more generally to that trial by the Fathers afterward yet here in brief to this particular point There is scarce one Father but we bring him expresly witnessing as we affirm the fulnesse and sufficiency of scripture in all things necessary Bell. in l. 4. c. 11. sets down very many of them and admits them for the sayings of those Fathers how then does hee decline them 1. One of his General answers and it is what others answer to that the Fathers speake of omnia omnibus necessaria to be contained in scripture This the expresse testimonies of those Fathers have extorted from him which is no little prejudice to their cause who equal tradition to the written Word and plead the necessity of what is conveyed to us thereby for if all things necessary for all be contained in Scripture then surely the doctrines and faith delivered in unwritten Traditions are not necessary for all They indeed that have given up their belief to all the dictates of that Church are consequently necessitated to believe them but we may be good Christians and yet not believe them because not written and not necessary it seemeth to all That which they can pretend to say here is that such unwritten Traditions become necessary to be believed upon the proposall of the Church and to be by all believed to whom they are sufficiently propounded or made known Indeed of Scripture we grant All things there revealed become upon sufficient proposal of them necessary to be believed as true yet not all to be believed as necessary in themselves to salvation But of unwritten Traditions we cannot say Men are bound to believe them as true upon the proposall of their Church unlesse they can demonstrate the testimony of their Church to be Infallible or that she propounds them upon full Catholike or Universal Tradition and consent of all Ages which they cannot doe Much lesse can we say Men are bound upon the proposal of their Church to believe them as containing things necessary in themselves to salvation unlesse they can prove the contents of those Traditions to be so which is impossible or that their Church can make new Articles of Faith or those things necessary to be believed to salvation which were not so in themselves before This the sober and moderate Romanist must and will deny 2. He shifteth off their Testimonies by restraining them to the particular thing there spoken of as if they onely meant the scripture was full to that point onely When as indeed upon occasion of some particular point which they were proving they speak in general of the sufficiency of Scripture saying it contains all things necessary Therefore to take away these and all such shifts which they bring to restraine what the Fathers spoke generally We shew they spoke so generally of the sufficiency of Scripture that they left no room for unwritten Traditions to come into the rule of Faith This we shew unanswerably by the Fathers alledged above chap. 23. arguing negatively as Tertul. sometimes Non est scriâ—tum therefore not to be received and speaking exclusively to all things not written as that we must not say or teach any thing of faith praeterquam quod scriptum est saith Saint Augustine lib. 3. contra Lit Petil. Sine his Testibus saith St. Chrysost and citra Scipturam in Psal 95. and absque authoritate testimonio Scripturae saith St. Hier. in 1. cap. Hag. and Quicquid extra Scripturam est cùm non sit ex fide peccatum est Basil in Regulis Eth. Such exclusive words praeterquà m sinè citrà absque extrà they use against admitting of unwritten Tradition for a Rule of Faith which words and speeches are not any way to be eluded That they bring many sayings out of the Fathers for Tradition it is true and Bellarmine boasts in the number but to what purpose when they do but beat the aire strike us not For they either meane the Scripture it self or Evangelical Doctrine contained in and delivered to the Church by the written Word to which the name of Tradition is often given by the more ancient Fathers Iraen Tertul. Cyprian or else they mean the forme of Doctrine and Belief delivered downe in the Church which though they often call Tradition yet is it written and contained in Scripture and is but the explication of it or the Traditive sense nothing to the unwritten Traditions we speak of or else by unwritten Tradition as they often mention that too they imply things of Practise and Rites and Festivals or Fasts and the like not matters of Faith necessary to Salvation And among these some Fathers avouch such for Apostolical Traditions which the Romanists will not allow as standing at Prayer between Easter and Whitsontide and every Lords day and the Trine immersion in Baptism In a word where the Fathers say the Apostles left some things to us unwritten let the
OF THE DIVISION BETVVEEN The ENGLISH AND ROMISH Church VPON THE REFORMATION By way of Answer to the seeming plausible Pretences of the ROMISH Party Much enlarged in this Edition By H. FERNE D. D. ACT. 24.14 After the way which they call Heresie so worship I the God of my fathers c. LONDON Printed by J. G. for Richard Royston at the Angel in Ivie-lane 1655. To the READER GOod Reader This Treatise was intended for private Satisfaction but falling under the View of some that were able to judge and liked well of it better than it deserved it was thought not unfit for more publick use And the Author then farre off in the North was importuned not onely to give his consent to the putting it forth but to help it forward himself by prefacing something to it for the fairer bringing it forth into Open light Know therefore Good Reader and well consider it that these are such times as the Apostle foretold 2 Tim. Perilous difficult and troublesome times 2 Tim. 3.1 Times in which it would be hard for good Christians to know how to behave themselves with safety the dangers of these daies threatning not onely the outward estate or worldly concernments but attempting Conscience and Religion it self and that on the one hand and on the other They of the old Romish Superstition pretending Antiquity and a present flourishing condition of a Church They of the new perswasion boasting successe and holding forth New lights to carry aside As in the day of Jerusalem both the Children of Edom and of Babylon cried Down with it down with it Psal 137. They saw the trouble of Jerusalem and were glad that the Lord had done it Lam. 1.21 So it is with the true Protestant Church in this Land now troubled and distressed The Enemies on either side rejoicing that the Lord hath done it to us A pitifull thing it is and one argument more for Lamentation than Jeremiah had for his that the enemies of a Christian Church should be such on both sides as professe themselves Christians acknowledge One Saviour look for one Hope and though agreeing all in the main yet because of different perswasions in Religion can be content yea and rejoice to see a Christian Church to fall and to be if they might have their will thrown quite off from the Foundation on which they professe themselves to be built rather than see it stand there otherwise than just as they doe and according to their frame How much were it to be wished and to be prayed for that the Lord would roll away this reproach of Aegypt Jos 5.9 from off the name of Christians this uncircumcision this hardnesse of heart that he would take away this perverse Spirit he has mingled among us as Isa 19.14 from whence arise such Debates and contentions not onely about the things of Earth but of Heaven too the Affairs and businesse of the State and of the Church too As for those of the Romish perswasion when I look at those points of Religion controverted between us which concern not the special and politick concernments of that Church such as Universal Jurisdiction and that which follows on it Universal Subjection and that which must maintain the former Infallibility and the like I cannot but think there might be a possibility of some peaceable and fair Christian agreement Yea and were there Reason and Equity in men instead of that pretended Infallibility to agree and stay upon the due Authority of free General Councels and instead of the now exorbitant power of the Bishop of Rome to be content he should have onely the Antient Patriarchal Primacy allowed him in the first Generall Councels I should not despair of agreement as to these points But when I consider how neerly the Guides of that Church take themselves to be concerned in these Politick Interesses and what a numerous society there is of Jesuites devoted to maintain them I must needs say that hope seems vain and conclude them engaged to hold where they are and to condemn all other Christians and Churches to the Gates of Hell that will not acknowledge the Church of Rome to be the onely Church against which the Gates of Hell have not nor can prevail by any errour in Faith or Worship He that will look into the businesse of Religion before and at the beginning of the Councel of Trent will easily see by the several Colloquies held between Protestants and Romanists what agreement some points were brought to and what further condescension might have been had not the Interesses of the Court of Rome disturbed all Or if he look into those Relations and Histories we have of the Councel of Trent it self he will see by the several discourses had upon the points controverted what moderation there was in many learned men but rendred ineffectual by reason that the Arcana Imperii those forementioned politick concernments of that Church as they might not be once disputed so they wholly over-ruled the other points of Religion and excluded all Moderation in the Definitions of that Councel All the Christian World sees how long the poor distressed Eastern Church has lain under that heavy condition unpitied by Them of the Romish Communion and how They have stood affected to us since our Reformation has sufficiently appeared by their several practices against us What hand they had in our present troubles is not unknown to some what joy they now take in them let their own heart tell them but what advantage they make of them for perverting of many that is it we are to take notice of and to withstand I have opposed this Defence such as it is against their generall plausible pretences framed indeed both for Matter and Form most-what according to the scruples of Those that occasioned it but may generally serve to give some stay in these tottering Times to those that have not a more able hand to hold and keep them steady As for the Particular Doctrines of the Romish Church some of the chief of them as Traditions Infallibility Transubstantiation Invocation of Saints Purgatory are spoken to as concerning the Trial of Antiquity towards the End of this Treatise Where it is by divers instances shewn that they could not be doctrines of the Antient Church I may happily finde time with Gods help to make a fuller enquiry upon these and other their novel Articles that it may appear what is justly and necessarily controverted between us either in matter of Faith or Worship What may be waved as needlesly quarrelled at or agreed as needlesly contended about And of the controverted Points which Doctrine Theirs or Ours will upon the triall of direct Scripture prove more Apostolical which upon principles confessed by us both will appear more safe and reasonable and also more agreeable to true Christian humility and piety But of this hereafter as it shall please God to give opportunity and ability It remains I should speak to that seeming advantage they
would make of our disturbed condition to the abusing of unwary Protestants into a perswasion that we have no Government no Communion no Church Something is said to it in the Body of this Treatise upon the point of Schisme and Division But to give the Reader farther satisfaction it must be considered First It is no new thing to see a Church under the power of the Sword oppressed by the hand of violence persecuted scattered and so deprived of the peace order and comlinesse it had Nor ought any Man to think that he is not therefore in the Bosome of the Church because he cannot lie in it quietly and at ease as formerly or that it is best for him to stay no longer in the Ship as they thought Act. 27.30 31. because it is tossed to and fro with a heavy and tedious storm The Romanist that judges much of things spiritual by the eye of sense cannot well like of Christian worship but when it is pompous and highly Ceremonious nor of a Christian Church unlesse it be gloriously conspicuous for outward splendour and undisturbed order But then is Truth of most price when it is bought at a dear rate and not sold upon any terms when it is sought out with great difficulty and held upon as great disadvantages and then is Faith most pretious when it is most tried and stands under the greatest prejudious Secondly Consider what has hapned to us is faln upon us for Trial and Humiliation to the end that they which are approved might be made manifest among us 1 Cor. 11.19 for the Truth they hold to and the Faith they professe and that All might be humbled and corrected the Sons of Levi especially refined and purified Mal. 3.3 Our troubled condition therefore does not justifie the Church of Rome nor ought to confirm any in the errour of that perswasion but it condemns onely our iniquities in being unanswerable to that Pea e and Truth we enjoyed and calls for not a forsaking of that way of Worship and Religion we were in but of those sinnes by which wee provoked this wrath Thirdly Consider what has hapned to us has to the same end and purpose often befaln the Church of God without a dissolution of it If the Lord has now covered this Church with a cloud in his anger it is but what he did to Zion Lam 2.1 If in the indignation of his wrath he has despised both the King and the Priest it is that which Jeremiah lamented in the sad condition of Jerusalem Lam. 2.9 If destroyed his places of Assembly as there complained of it is not the destruction of a Church but the want of that freedome it had of more publick Worship and Communion Looke we into the Christian Church how it was trained up for some hundreds of yeares in such a low and distressed condition under perilous and dissicult times for the most part which seldome afforded them a secure liberty of due and orderly assembling together We see the Church at first falling under persecutions and all of them scattered abroad but some few that held together privately at Jerusalem Act. 8.1 and cap. 11.19 and in the next Chap. we see their meetings were very close and secret cap. 12.12 13. And so was it often with the Church during the persecutions of the first 300 years often put to have their meetings before day and in caves or secret places yet so they maintained the Communion and being of the Church Why then should any think it strange to see the like disturbance of peace and order happen to a National Church But to come yet nearer our Case When the Church under the violence of Arrian Emperours was persecuted scattered Bishops driven from their Sees and all good Christian people that would not communicate with Heresie and Schism driven from the publick places of Worship put to meet as they could and where they could yet so they continued the Cōmunion of the Church Now during those perilous times there was nothing done in the Way of the Church for Worship or Discipline but t is or may be done in this Church And if any can say t is not so done he does but speak the necessity of Times or at worst but the fault failings of men not the want of any thing necessary in the Constitution of this Church For notwithstanding the attempts of violence there is the same Doctrine and power of Discipline remaining the same Liturgie and form of worship the same Government by Bishops and other inferiour Pastors and were there the same Zeal as was in the Christians of the Antient Church under the Heathen or Arrian violence there would be no cause of complaint no occasion of reproach as there is now with some by reason of Communion and Discipline not yet so regularly provided for in the present disturbed condition of this Church Indeed this may be said towards an excuse that such has been the Conjuncture of Affairs for these last years such the uncertainty of Occurrences in relation to Church and State that it made the Times very difficult for those that had lawfull power to know or resolve how to use it lawfully and to the best advantage The Windes in this storm have blown so contrary and from such several quarters and the Waves which beat upon the Ship have been so broken and uncertain that it was hard for those that were at the Helm to stear or bear up against them And if our Pilots tired out with the storm did think it best as they did Act. 27.25 to let the Ship drive a while out of hope the Winde would cease of it self or some other more favourable blast arise from some other quarter This indeed might be prudence for the then pressing Exigency yet must not they or any else because the storm lies still upon us think as they did Act. 27.30 of flying out of the Ship But rather take courage after long abstinence and provide for safety as well as the difficulty and distresse of the Times will permit There laid a heavy storm upon the Church when it was under the Heathen or Arrian violence yet if compared with the condition of our Times it will appear to have been in better capacity of holding the Communion more regular and distinct by reason the opposition was more regular certain and apparent The Civil power was the same no alteration of State to trouble them but only the will of the Prince changed and for the time bent against them the businesse also of Religion was clear and easie to resolve for whether we consider the Heathen Superstition or the Arrian Heresie both so apparent that the temptations of compliance were lesse forcible and so the means of holding Christians together in a distinct Communion more ready and easie The condition of our Times hath indeed been more difficult which though it might perswade forbearance a while and excuse it yet now it calls for the more courage and zeal
to be a Judge in the cause Indeed a lawful and free General Councel of the whole Church setting scripture before them as their Rule had been the only and competent Judge but seeing such a Councel was not to be had or expected not a General one because of the division of the Eastern Church from the West nor a lawful and free one because of the exorbitant power of the Pope and his Dependants it remained we should use the means left us and doe it by Provincial and National Synods keeping the same Rule the Word of God Which Gerson with other wise learned men allows and calls it reformari per parteâ— when the Church reforms it self by parts and to this provincial Councels doe suffice Gers de Concil Vnius obed And so we reade the Emperour with other Kings and Princes who called for a General Councel to compose differences in Religion thought it reasonable upon the tergiversation of the Pope to doe it by Provincial Synods in their several Dominions and so they threatned the Pope they would do if he would not consent to a Councel A Councel and the rame of Reformation were alwaies formidable to the Court of Rome and between the dread of a General Councel and the fear of such Provincial Synods Pope after Pope hung tormented for divers yeares using all the artifices as might be to satisfie the Princes and yet to keep off both General and Provincial Synods till Pope Paul the third arose a man of Spirit and cunning who turned the fear of a Councel into the hope and expectation of advantage by it And so indeed he and his dependants ordered the businesse at Trent that nothing could there be determined without his privity and direction that in the end both Princes and People instead of relief they expected by a Free Councel found themselves more hampered and enslaved by the pretended General Courcel of Trent Where divers points which before were more free to opine in or have freedome of opinion in were defined Articles of Faith and all hope excluded of gaining what divers Princes made no question to carry at the beginning viz Communion in both kindes Priests marriage Service in a known tongue and some other The Princes and the People were very ill satisfied with this dealing the French did not of many years receive that Councel yet did not proceed to make use of a national Synod happily because of the troubles in that Kingdome but the English Nation would not be so fooled for seeing aforehand what could be expected from the Court of Rome they made use of that Power which God has left in every Church of judging for it self according to his word especially when the Catholick Church stands so divided and oppressed with faction that the chief remedy of all a Free General Councel cannot be had What God spake to his people by the Prophet Hos 4.15 Though Israel transgresse yet let not Judab sin tells us a particular Church may and ought to reform though others will not and the examples of many Provincial Councels in this point of declaring and casting out errors creeping upon them warrant what we have done For if Saint Augustine and the other Bishops in a Provincial Synod declared against and rejected the usurped claim of the Pope in point of Appeal why might not the English Church under Henry the VIIIth cast out his usurped power here And if the Provincial Synod of Laodicea declared against and condemned the worshipping of Angels then on foot why might not we also declare against worship of Saints and Images prevailing here If it be said it was not done here by a just Provincial Synod but the most of the former Bishops were against the Reformation and displaced Answ We need not tell them how the businesse was carried at Trent how some were sent away some kept back others and they but Titular Bishops sent in and all to make up a major part which the Histories of that Councel witness And Dudithius an Hungarian Bishop and one of the Orators for that King complained of it as it is to be seen in his advices and Letters from thence But we say that in that Reformation under Henry the VIIIth and Queen Elizabeth is more largely pursued in my I st Part Chap 2. there was no displacing of Bishops but all passed with a general consent And upon that Reformation or Ejection of the Popes usurped power arose the first division of the English and Romish Church In that which followed under Queen Elizabeth the businesse of the Synod was regularly carried by the Major part the displacing of the Bishops that were put out being before and that upon the denyal of the Oath of Supremacy and their conspiring together to refuse to Crown the Queen I will conclude this point of our Reforming with the saying of Saint Cyprian lib. 2. Ep 3. Si quis de Antecessorib c. If any of those that went before us did through ignorance or simplicity not observe and hold this which the Lord by his example and doctrine hath taught it may be pardoned them through the Indulgence of God Nobis non poterit ignosci c. but to us it cannot be pardoned who are now admonished and instructed of the Lord. So say we If any went before us in the Communion and Errors of the Roman Church through simplicity of heart we deny him not mercy with God but we could not expect it if being better instructed of God we had not amended our known errors CHAP. V. We not guilty of Schism The guilt of the breach lies on the Romanists THus farre of our Reforming Now of that which followed upon it breach of Communion And here they charge us with Schisme When I say breach of Communion followed upon our Reforming I doe not take the charge and guilt of it upon us or imply that it followed as the proper effect does upon the immediate cause but followed accidentally occasionally and is to be imputed to some cause else not our reforming but their default They gave us cause by Errours and Superstitions thrust upon us to reform They when We and all Nations called for Reformation remained incorrigible We did our duty they would not doe theirs Division of Communion necessarily followes by reason those Errours were not only in belief but in practice and worship too not upon our leaving the Errours but upon their not leaving them not upon our going forward but because they would not come on As when communicating of Infants was believed as necessary and accordingly practised through the Catholick Church we must understand it as generally believed and practised or more generally than was any Romish Errour before the Reformation for many ages that National Church which first reformed it self in that belief and practice did it justly without expecting a General Councel and as to that belief and practice stood divided from other National Churches or parts of the Catholick till they should reform too
been said against knowing the Church by these markes is not spoken to deny the Roman which challenges them to be a Church but that they mark her out for such a Church as the Cardinal would have us take her for such a Church as Saint Augustine speaks of viz. the Catholike Church the Church in which onely the Pastors voice is to be heard for what she pretends to by these marks alone she must allow to the Greek Church also It is not these barely without consideration of doctrine that could marke her out for a true Church but that she still together with these holds the foundation And in regard of that we acknowledge the Pastors voice was still heard in her yet so that the voice of false Shepheards have often out-cryed him yea cryed him down in many points of high concernment to his sheep Yet by Gods providence his voice was still heard and his Word or Scripture still preserved whereby the voice of false Shepheards might be discerned from the true one the Errors and Superstitions prevailing known from the Truth and faith once delivered When the voice of the great Pastor except ye eat the flesh c. Joh. 6. was generally mistaken in the Church and misapplyed to the communicating of Infants there was enough of his voice and word still heard in the Church to discover the Error and restore the Truth When Image-worship was cryed up by the second Nicene Council and advanced in the West by the Romish Bishops yet was there enough in the word and voice of the Shepheard known in the Church to condemn it in the Council of Frankford and elswhere When Pope John 22. defined the place of faithfull Souls to be out of Heaven till the Resurrection and enjoyned it to be professed by those that took degrees in the Universities yet was there enough still in that Church to condemn it in the Council of Florence When the voice of the Shepheard in those places Feed my sheep Joh. 21.16 Thou art Peter and upon this Rock Mat. 16.18 I have prayed for thee Luk. 22.32 was mistaken and mis-applyed for some Ages to advance the Popes Infallibility and power over all there was enough seen by the Council of Basil and Constance to define the contrary and conclude a Council to be above him And however the noyse again is greater in the Church of Rome for the Pope than a Council yet is there enough still heard in that Church by the French generally and all moderate Romanists to know the untruth of it So we say whatever becomes of the Cardinals marks Eminencie Antiquitie c. by which he would have her marked out for the onely Church in which the Pastors voice is to be heard the Romish Church hath failed in her doctrine cryed up Errours and Superstitions yet so that the Pastors voice hath been heard and his word so preserved there that enough to discover them And now to some applying of what hdth been said touching use of Reason and Judgement to our Case of Reforming We examined the Church of Rome by the Marks Eminencie Antiquity Succession We see they agree not to that alone nor that in Saint Augustines purpose as he applyed the like Marks to the Catholike Church Nor doe they imply that Church where barely found to be a Church designed by God to remaine uncorrupt much lesse to be the Infallible Interpreter of his Testament Also we examined that Church by that maine mark of Sanctity of Doctrine using our Reason and Judgement which they allow in this point and that the judgement of a National Church and found her so far from being Infallible that she was grosly corrupted in her Belief and Worship Of which we had apparent conviction from the evidence abovesaid to wit Scripture and Primitive practise either of which excels the judgement and authority of the present Church of Rome CHAP. XIII Our way opens not a gap to Sectaries NOw to the last part of the Objection The opening hereby of a Gap to all Heresie and Schism Answ Due use of Reason and Judgement does it not Sectaries that are gone out from us cannot 1. Pretend to such a way of Reforming the Church or to such a Judgement as our Reformation was brought about by they wanting the Authority which is needfull to it in every National Church They as Members of this Church owed obedience and subjection to the Government and Governours thereof by divine precept and could doe nothing as to a Reformation more than private men whereas the Church of England if under the Patriarchate of Rome according to Ecclesiastical Canon which would not have been contended about yet stood not bound to the usurped power thereof but being a National Church might justly eject that Usurpation and make Reformation within it self of all Errors maintained by that pretended Power and Authority 2. As for that wherein they dissent from this Church they cannot pretend to such Evidence we spoke of they doe not at all pretend to the practise and consent of the first Ages nor have they plain and evident Scripture but places unlearnedly wrested The Evidence required in dissenting from Authority is such as by expresse words or direct consequence is apparent to all that can use their Reason without prejudice of self-interest or faction But we must note a different evidence in regard of things propounded by the Church as matters of Faith and Worship and things enjoyned as circumstantials of Worship or pertaining to Order Discipline In the first sort the Church indeed stands bound to shew them evidently out of Gods Word to be such before they can be received by faith and full assent for such because it is the office of the Church or Governours thereof not to make such but to declare and propound them But they that will charge the Church in those Proposals with Heresie Superstition or Idolatry must have the full and apparent evidence aforesaid In the second sort Things Circumstantial and of Order and propounded only for such by the Church they that dissent and refuse to yeeld obedience must have most cleare evidence that such things are unlawfull and forbidden by Gods Word because that Word of God most evidently gives power to the Church to make constitute and ordaine such things and expresly commands obedience to Superiours Now for the things which the Church of Rome propounded and imposed as matters of Faith and Worship as she had not evidence for them out of Gods Word which was enough for our refusing them as matters of Faith and Worship so we had sufficient evidence of Scripture and Antiquity against them Whereas all that this Church of England propounds as matter of Faith and Worship is most clear by Scripture and consent of Antiquity So that it is most unreasonable for our Sectaries to deny it and impossible for them to have evidence against it Much lesse is it possible for them to be convinced out of Gods Word of the unlawfulnesse of
with them alwaies and simply necessary and that our Case and the Donatists is different as St. Cyprian's and their case was Now to clear these more fully We say first It was neither our intent when we reformed to divide from the Catholike Church or any part of it neither did we We onely sought to reforme our selves leaving them to themselves We had indeed to doe only with the Roman Church which being a particular Church as it may utterly faile without failing of the Catholike Church so may it surely be in such a measure corrupted that it deserves to be divided from Yet our aime and intent was only to leave the Errours and Superstitions we practised with her and so to leave her no farther than her Communion was mixed with those Superstitious practises i. e to leave her no farther than she had left her self as we can prove or receded from what she was for belief and practise in the more antient and purer Times Now here 's the usual mistake and upon the Romanists part the common prejudice against us that they still take the Roman Church and her Communion for the Catholike and what they meet with in the Fathers touching the Catholike Church to this or like purpose that Communion with it is necessary that there is no salvation out of it they apply to the Roman or touching Communion with the Roman Church or Bishop to the proving any man Catholike thereby They appropriate it to that Church as a special prerogative when as the Fathers did also prove the like by communion with other Churches and Bishops confessedly Catholike although not so frequently because Roman Church and Bishop of it was then of all other most eminent Upon this double misapplication those many Testimonies which Cardinal Perron in his Epistle and Answer has heaped up out of St. Augustine and others come to no purpose For to be Extra Ecelesiam Romanam is not presently to be Extra Catholicam For though it was a good argument of old when that Church was eminently and confessedly sound to conclude affirmatively as the Fathers often did such were good Catholiques because in Communinion with that Church yet now since Rome is notoriously corrupt and unsound the argument will not hold to conclude Affirmatively Much lesse will it hold Negatively to argue such are no Catholiques because not in Communion with Rome Nay when Rome of old was sound in Belief and Doctrine it did not alwaies conclude the Negative as will appear by the Instances below of the Asian and Afriean Churches out of Communion with the Roman much lesse can it conclude Negatively now CHAP. XVI The Greek Church a Church and part of the Catholick FUrthermore besides the Roman we acknowledge other Christian Churches parts of the Catholique and we say wee are not out of Communion with them as the Church of Rome is by an actuall declaring of Non-communion to each other For though wee agree not with those Churches in all doctrines and practises which is not De facto necessary to the holding of Communion 'twixt parts of the Catholick yet we holding them still parts of the Catholick Church and they us and not pronouncing Non-communion to each other we both remain in the Unity or Matrice as Cyprian phrases it of the Catholike Church Now as to our opinion of the Greek Church we conceive their denying the procession of the Holy Ghost to be from the Son but yeelding it to be by the Son to be onely a difference in form of speech not of any Heretical meaning as they are acquitted by some learned Romanists And for their opinion and judgement of us we say that Censure of Jeremias one of their Patriarchs which the Romanists object against us as condemning the Protestant Doctrine in many points is not found to be warranted by any Authority of the Greek Church and to it we may oppose the judgement of Cyril their late Patriarch who approves our Church and doctrine But they ask seeing we left the Roman why did we not joyne to the Greek or some other Church or part of the Catholick Resp We were joyned with them in the Catholick Church as said before but if by joyning our selves to some other Church they meane holding and practising as that Church doth we say againe as above such agreement between the parts of the Catholick is not necessary to Catholick Communion 2. We say it was not necessary for us First because we were a National Church and therefore not bound to joyn so as to put our selves under any particular Church of one denomination Private persons indeed are bound so to be joyned to one Church or other which are parts of the Catholick Secondly because our worke was Reformation and casting off the Romish Errours and wee saw no particular Church but needed Reformation very much and therefore we could not joyne to any so as to agree with them in all doctrines and practises These considerations shew the many Testimonies brought out of the Fathers by the Romanists for necessity of Communion come not home to our case For as they are abused when applyed to the Communion of the Roman Church as above noted so are they not altogether applicable to the Catholick Church now as it stands in a condition far different from what it was in St. Augustines time At the time of the Reformation it was found divided in two parts accusing each other of Errour and Schism It was our part then to consider what Errours we had received by communion with the Romish Church and finding them to be many and great it was not for us to make any other part of the Catholike Church a rule or pattern of Reformation but to look to Gods Word and the Primitive practise when the Catholike Church was in such an intire estate that the above mentioned Testimonies were truly appliable to her Which Church is by both sides confessed and acknowledged to have been so right and sound that none could have cause to leave the Communion of any part of her Which Church also must be acknowledged to be of more Authority than the present Romish or Greeke Church From that Word of God was our Rule from that Primitive Church was our pattern and by holding to that rule and pattern as neare as we could if we cease to believe and practise many things as the Church of Rome doth or not agree in all doctrines and practises with other parts of the Catholique Church we cannot be said for that to have no Communion with the Catholike Church CHAP. XVII Of agreement and external Communion twixt the parts of the Catholike Church BUt further to cleare this point of actual communion and agreement betweene the parts of the Catholique Church by some Instances In the points of keeping Easter and Rebaptization it is evident First that the Asian and Roman in the one and the African and Roman in the other did not agree for doctrine and practise Secondly that they could not
of rebaptizing Heretiques leaving other Churches to their liberty and though thinking them in errour for admitting Heretiques without baptizing them yet willing to have Communion with them as parts of the Catholike Church saving the practises wherein they differed whether then had they been guilty of Schisme If he say Yea then must he condemne Saint Cyprian and all the African Bishops For they went so far yea farther to an undervaluing of Pope Stephens heat against them who had sent out the sentence of Excommunication against the Bishops of Cappadocia Cilicia and Galatia who were in the same cause with Saint Cyprian and forbade Communion with Saint Cyprian and the Africans and all that held rebaptization What ever the Cardinal judges of them as to the point of Schisme for though in his third Book third Chapter he treats of the oppositions of Saint Cyprian against Pope Stephen and speakes of the Popes condemning him yet sayes nothing directly as to the judging of him in Schism or out of the Communion of the Church Saint Augustine did not judge them so no not when often pressed by the Donatists with St. Cyprians example he might with a ready answer have turned off the weight of Authority by leaving the person under guilt of Schisme as one out of Communion of the Church but this he did not alwaies speaking honourably of him as of a worthy Martyr and onely disproving his reasons for Rebaptization Nor did after-Ages judge him and the African Bishops though out of Communion with Rome to be therefore guilty of Schisme condemning notwithstanding the Donatists as notorious Schismaticks because in the one there was a bare want of external Communion with Rome without an uncharitable breaking with or condemning of either the Roman or the rest of the Churches thaâ—â—id not rebaptize but â—n the other viz. the Donatists there was a wil 〈◊〉 breâ—king with and uncharitable condemning of the Church By all which may appear our case is different from the Donatists is like that of St. Cyprian and his African Bishops wanting communion with the Roman but not therefore out of communion with the Catholike And we have so much more advantage in the case that the occasion of their non Communion was the maintaining of an Errour though tolerable the occasion of ours the casting off intolerable Errours CHAP. XX. Of Hell-Gates not prevailing against the Church ANother generall Objection they make against our dividing from them If say they it was for such damnable Errours and Superstitions as the Protestants charge the Roman Church with then had the Gates of Hell contrary to our Saviours promise prevailed against the Church We answer by denying the consequence For from the charging of the Church of Rome which is but a part of the Catholike Church with such errours it does not follow that Hell-gates have prevailed contrary to our Saviours promise for they might have totally prevailed against the Roman Church to an utter subversion of it as of other particular Churches and yet our Saviours promise stood firm How far they have prevailed against that Church the examination of her doctrines for beliefe and practice makes appear We acknowledge indeed that Hel-Gates did not prevail against the Church of Rome to a subversion of the Faith in it or to a totall infection of the members of it with all the errours and superstitions that prevailed in it and were advanced from time to time chiefly by those that had chiefe place in that Church But as to the Catholike Church we acknowledge that the Gates of Hell shall never prevaile to a subversion either of all the parts of it or of saving Faith in it There shall alwaies be a Church and that a Church wherein saving Faith shall be preserved and may be had And so Saint Augustine de Symb. ad Catech. l. 1. c. 5. seemes to render the sense of that promise when he repeats it thus The Gates of Hell shall not overthrow or conquer it And the Council of Trent seems plainly to acknowledge what Faith it is against which the Gates of Hell shall not prevail Not the now Roman Faith for by that the Gates of hel have far prevail'd upon the Church of Rome but the antient Apostolike Faith once delivered in all Ages professed and by us Protestants retained For being met at Trent to establish their new Faith they beginne their meeting as the Antient Councils did with the confession of the Christian faith repeating onely that Antient Apostolike Faith or Creed and then adding This is the firme and onely Foundation against which the Gates of Hell shall not prevaile Sess secund Concil Trid. Unto this passage I had in private this Reply or cavil rather returned If the words of the Council import so much then may the Church of Christ cast off Baptism and return to Circumcision and yet hold the foundation because professing that Faith But this cavill or infereâ—ce is First inconsequent as to the particular Instances Baptism and Circumcision For the one the Nicene Creed tels us what a necessary conjunction it hath with the belief of Remission of sins in rendring the Articles thus I believe one Baptism for the Remission of sinnes and for the other the Apostle tels us how inconsistent it is with the Faith of Christ Gal. 5.2.3 Secondly it is impertinent as to my application of that Confession at Trent for I alledged it not to ground any such Inferences upon it against the whole Catholike Church as if the Gates of Hell could prevail against it wholly in all sorts of Errours saving the Verities and profession of those Articles of the Creed but seeing they made that Creed the confession of their Faith at Trent according to the manner of Antient Councils and acknowledged it in plaine words to be the onely foundation c. I inferre first That a Church holding that Foundation may grosly erre in other things not so immediate to it and yet be a Church And indeed the Romish Church for these many Ages has had no tolerable Plea to the title and being of a Church but so far forth as has held that foundation however clogged with many Errours Secondly that according to this their confession their New and additional Faith of Trent is not that Catholike Faith against which as pretended the Gates of Hell cannot prevail And lastly it shews the intolerable boldnesse of the Romish Church or Court which after the Tridentine meeting feared not to adde their new Articles to that former Creed which they had confessed to be the onely foundation as making up one entire Catholike Faith and to subjoyn Athanasius his Clause to it all Haec est fides Catholica extra quam c. This is the Catholike Faith without which no salvation as appeares by Pius quartus his Bul and the Oath which every Bishop in that Church takes But that the Catholike Church has a promise in that large sense Cardinal Perron speakes it lib. 1. cap. 18. to continue
perpetually pure and uncorrupted in her doctrine we cannot say We cannot say it in the Cardinal's sense for if we speak of pure and uncorrupted doctrine he meanes it of such a priviledge and freedome from Errour as the Church of Rome challenges which is not necessary to the preservation of the Catholike Church and Faith or if we speak of the Catholick Church he takes it as most visibly appearing in the chief Pastors and their adherents binding that priviledge and freedom to that succession or those that are chief in it Whereas we grant the Catholike Church wholly according to all the Pastors and Members of it shall not be infected with any destructive or dangerous Errours but that purity of saving Doctrine shall be preserved in it Yet not bound as a Priviledge to any one Church as to the Roman or to those that are for Number most and for Place chief in the Church but that in some part or other of the Catholike Church and by some Pastors it shall be preserved and propagated They that dreame of a Church alwayes so gloriously visible and so apparently holding out Purity of Doctrine and Saving Truth as the Romanists doe to the end all men may readily finde out the true Church and easily come to the knowledge of that Truth do not consider that God doth somtimes for the sins of Christians turning his grace into wantonnesse make his Word precious as 1 Sam. 3. and his saving Truth not to be found without difficulty and diligent search after it We see the Fathers interpreted that promise the Gates of Hell shall not of the not failing of the Church never of the not erring of it and we see by experience the contrary As for example the Millenary belief and the excommunicating of Infants both which the Church of Rome acknowledge errours did as generally prevail in the Catholike Church as any error of their New Faith can be said which they boast often to be the general belief and doctrine of the whole Church We say then The Gates of Hell cannot prevaile to the overthrowing of the Fundamental saving Faith or to the corrupting and extinguishing of the Purity of saving Doctrine absolutely through the Catholike Church but may prevaile very farre and generally over the visible face of the Church Catholike viz. as it shews it self in the parts of it all particular Churches holding the Foundation For these considered as above according to their more visible and conspicuous appearance in those that are chiefest in them for place and most for number 〈◊〉 lose the purity of Saving Do 〈…〉 though holding the Foundation admit of the Superstructions of hay stubble and worse Errors in belief and practice And though Hell-Gates may prevaile very farre and generally by Superstructures yet are they such at least in some particular Churches as the foundation may bear Such as may still be convinced by the Doctrine of Saving Truth preserved still in the Church For the Pastors voice as was said above cap. 12. will be so heard alwaies in the Church that the strange voice of false Teachers and false Doctrines may be discerned and will by them that have eares to hear and their senses exercised to put a difference between good and evill true and false Now the Romish Church with which we had to doe had not preserved the Faith entire without mixture of many Errours and Superstitions had not kept the foundation clear from such burthensome and dangerous Superstructures yet has the fundamentall Faith in expresse termes been delivered downe in that Church and such saving knowledge as was sufficient to discern the Foundation from the Superstructures the true and ancient Faith from the new erroneous Belief the true Pastors voice from the strange Doctrines of unwritten Traditions To follow that voice to cast off those Superstructures to contend for the Faith once delivered and clear it from adventitiall errours that was our duty and the work of our Reformation And thus far against their generall plausible Pretences Now to some Triall of their particular Doctrines of Belief and Practice which we have cast off as erroneous and superstitious For the way of Triall The Affirmative in those Doctrines being theirs it lies upon them to prove the Doctrines affirmed by them to be true and Catholike by such Rules as are allowable The Rules admitted by both sides though not in equal rank are Scripture and consent of Antiquity gathered by the Writings of the Fathers and the Acts of ancient Councils We say they cannot by these make good what they affirm but shew that both make against them CHAP. XXI Of the Tryall of Doctrines by Scripture FIrst for Scripture Whatsoever is revealed in that Scripture which both sides admit as Canonical is likewise admitted by both sides as of divine Authority But such Scripture is not acknowledged by them as a sufficient Rule for the triall and judging of the controverted points therefore they are necessitated to fly to Tradition not that which delivers down to us the sense of any Scripture by the consent of all Ages of the Church but to unwritten Traditions which deliver Doctrines of Beliefe and Practise that have not footing in Scriptures This I note because they are ready to abuse the unwary by urging sometimes the former sort to make them swallow unwritten Traditions upon the same pretence For the former sort we grant as appears by the points of Christianity not controverted between us because these points as they are grounded on Scripture so are they brought down to us by the profession and tradition of all Ages as the confessed sense of those Scriptures on which they are grounded and this not derogatory to the sufficiency of Scripture But to their other sort of Traditions viz. unwritten on which they generally ground their Doctrines rejected by us we cannot admit as any ground of Faith or Worship such Traditions being uncertain not possibly to be proved Apostolical but received upon the Testimony of their present Church and indeed generally inconsistent with Scripture Yet are we to note that in all the controverted points they pretend Scripture and alledge several places in every point yea in those points which they themselves confess as most of the controverted points are by the most ingenuous Romanists confessed to have no ground or footing in Scripture To let passe the want of candor and plain dealing in this we must observe First that their labouring to pretend Scripture for every Doctrine is a tacite acknowledgement that doctrines of Faith and Religion should have their ground there For instance Invocation of Saints they acknowledge not used in the Old Testament yea and give us reason for it because the souls of the Patriarchs were not then in heaven and so not to be Invocated yet doe they alledge very many places for it out of the Old Testament to make a shew of Scripture So for the New Testament They acknowledge Invocation of Saints departed was not commanded or taught
expresly or thence deducible and deducible not all by every one that reads but it is enough if done by the Pastors and Guides which God appointed in his Church to that purpose using the means that are needfull to that purpose such as is Attention and Diligence in search of the Scripture collation of places and observing the connexions also sincerity and impartiality in the collection or deduction they make also prayer and devotion for assistance in the Work Now Bellarmine propounded the question very carelesly or enviously as if we denying their visible Infallible Judge or Interpreter left the Scripture to be interpreted according to every mans pleasure There was enough said above concerning the use of Reason and Judgement which we leave to private men in order to their own assent or believing a private Judgement of discerning what is propounded to them and manifested out of Gods Word Which Judgement of theirs as it supposes the help of so it stands subordinate to the publike Judgement of the Guides and Pastors God has set in his Church to judge for others deducing out of Scripture and manifesting the truth to every mans conscience as 2 Cor. 4.2 CHAP. XXVII Of a visible Infallible Iudge or Interpreter NOw the question is Whether besides the forementioned Guides and Pastors there be One visible Judge or Interpreter for all the Church to whose sentence all mens Judgements must subscribe and every mans conscience must acquiesce without further enquiry i. e. a Judge or Interpreter Infallible Indeed such a Judge or Umpire of Christendome would if to be had be a ready meanes to compose all differences and restore truth and peace But seeing it is onely a pretence and not a reality we have no such remedy left us Nay seeing it is pretended to by a Church which may erre as well as other particular Churches and has erred as grosly or more than any other it is the greatest hinderance now of restoring truth and peace among Christians For that Church which pretends to the Infallibility cannot amend any Errour and must uncharitably condemn all others which doe not acknowledge her for such as she pretends to be So that which the Romanists would make the stay of Christianity the Infallibility and unerring priviledge of that Church is the very bane of Christendom But to come to the examination and decision of this Controversie We say the Catholike Church of Christ is and will be Infallible in Fundamentals and saving Truth necessary to the being and continuing of a Church of Christ and that is no more than to say The Church shall not faile in being or in saving Truth but that in one part or other that saving Truth or Faith will be preserved and professed But that there is or shall be a Church of one denomination as the Roman Infallible in all her definitions which she proposes de fide is that we deny and they cannot prove We are next to observe that although the Romanists would usually shroud themselves in this point of Infallibility under the name of the Church Catholike yet when brought to the tryal they must and doe fasten the Infallibility upon the Roman Church endeavouring to shew by generall markes that the Catholike Church is not to be found but in the Roman Communion which was observed above chap. 12. to be the drift of Cardinal Perron and here they would willingly stay and hold forth their Infallibility under the name and priviledge of the Church being loath to be put upon the Contestation 'twixt the Pope and a Generall Councill But seeing their Church cannot speak or doe the office of a Judge or Interpreter but by a Council or the Pope therefore their Infallibility must rest upon the one or other And here we must observe how they stand d vided and disagree about the very foundation of their Faith where to state that Infallibility upon which they profess to believe all they doe believe and for want of which they usually reproach us Protestants that we cannot have any certainty of belief or means of agreement when as they that pretend to such unity and certainty in their belief differ in the ground-worke of it one side destroying and confuting the reasons and motives of the other Now to say as they usually reply that they are certaine of the Definitions of their Church being from Councils confirmed by the Pope and so they have both agreeing This does not salve the businesse For it is not certain they shall alwaies agree nor have they alwaies agreed Where then must the Infallibility rest What certainty of such definitions as the Council makes without the Pope so did the Councils of Basil and Constance or that the Pope makes without a Council The Romanists stand divided about the Definitions of those two Councils Againe if they doe agree what certainty is there of an Infallibility For still that must accrew to the definitions either upon the unerring judgement of the Council making them or of the Pope confirming them and so it returns to the former difference and thereupon to the former uncertainty one side destroying the reasons of the other The Sorbonists and moderate Papists on the one part asserting a Council is above the Pope may judge and depose him on the other part the Jesuits and more rigid Papists maintaining the contrary And this opinion of stating the Infallibility upon the Pope is the more general among them But that we may come to a nearer triall of this Infallibility of Judgement in the Church of Rome and see what the certainty of their belief which by reason of that pretended Infallibility they boast of and deny to us will come to Suppose then they are all agreed that in their Church there is such a priviledge of Infall bility or not erring Let us consider what is brought against it what pretended for it Their part being the Affirmative ours the Negative we challenge them that they cannot prove it either by Scripture or any convincing demonstrative reason Notwithstanding they are bound to shew us it according to their own concessions expresly contained in Scripture For they grant all things necessary for all to believe and such they hold this point of Infallibility are so contained in Scripture it being one of their prima credibilia and necessary for all to be believe vid. c. 22. We as Negatives are proved shew it is not imaginable that a belief of that consequence the ground-worke of all Faith the stay of the Church as they will have it should be so ill provided for That First the four Evangelists writing the Gospel of Christ for the use of the Church and all Believers should if they knew it be so silent of it and yet record many things of far smaller importance Secondly that Saint Paul when he had occasion to speak it as when he wrote to the Romans should not give the least hint of this priviledge no not when he told them the priviledge of the Jews cap.
an Act or Virtue in Peter or not rather taken for that Catholike truth believed and confessed by Peter Peters confession of that Faith was no question the cause that our Saviour bestowed something on him at that time but that on which Christ sayes there He will build his Church was Peters Confession i. e. the Faith or Truth confessed by him and so its plaine the Fathers tooke it for they opposed this Faith or Confession as the Cardinal acknowledges against the Arrians That Christ was the Sonne of the living God Bell. applyes the promise following I will give thee the Keys c. to this busines of the One visible Interpreter or Judge and will have whatsoever thou loosest to signifie not onely the relaxation of sins and their censures but nodos omnes legum dogmatum the dispensing with the tyes of Laws and the explicating all the doubts and difficulties of Doctrine and Controversie lib. 3. de verbo Dei cap. 5. And this is barely said by him without further proof Now when this promise of the Keyes is applyed to judgement about sinnes and offences we know what binding is as well as loosing but when it is thus stretched to universall judgement in the interpretation of Scripture defining points of faith dispensing with Lawes we cannot tell unlesse we thus inferre that as loosing her with Bell. is to explicate Scripture so binding must be the obscuring or involving the sense of it if loosing be againe the power of dispensing with Lawes which binde men as in point of marriage or the like then of binding must be the forbidding of what God has made lawfull as for Clergy to marry or what he has commanded as people to receive the Sacrament in both kindes And the Pope it seems by vertue of this promise or power of Keyes may thus loose and binde and not erre yet these are their chiefe places of Scripture Now let us come to their Reasons First is from Gods providence who was not ignorant how many difficulties and controversies would arise about the faith and therefore would no doubt appoint such a Judge Answ This is to measure the wisdome of God by the modell of our Reason but the same reason may also tell us it would have been more convenient for the Church to have had such an Infallible Judge or Interpreter in every Nation than one for the whole Church which was to be spread over all the Earth yea reason may further tell us it had been suitable to his providence expresly to have told us who that Infallible Judge was and where we should finde him And it cannot be imagined in reason but he would have done it had he appointed any such for he was not ignorant that many the greatest controversies would be about this Judge He tells us plainly There must be Heresies and the end wherefore that they which are approved may be manifest 1 Cor. 11. but not appointing withall this remedy of an Infallible Judge we must think it is that approved faith may be of more price and worth gained with more earnest enquirie and diligence in searching the Scripture using the like means so also kept and held with greater care and watchfulnesse all which would have faln and grown remisse in the hearts of men if to trust all their belief upon an Infallible Guide without any further enquitie CHAP. XXVIII Of certainty of belief and whether they or we have better means for it THe Second reason is from certainty of belief which they say the Protestants cannot have for want of such Infallibility but we are certain saith Bell in his Proposition of Faith above-mentioned § 27. that this or that is revealed in Scripture because of the Testimony of the Church Councel or Pope which cannot erre Now would I ask first whether they believe that Christ is the Son of God Saviour of the world that He suffered and now sits at the right hand of God or the like because the Church testifies it to be revealed in Scripture or because they see it evidently there themselves If they say because the Church testifies it then it seems they cannot which is false or may not which is worse believe God immediately when he speaks as plain as the Church can If they say because they see it evidently there then have they two formall reasons of their belief One the immediate evidence of Scripture The other the Testimony of the Church And if they can believe upon that immediate evidence or light of Scripture then so may we also And so we doe not excluding the light which the Church gives to the Scripture where it needs which light is not to us the reason of believing what we believe but a means and help to see that which is contained in Scripture and make it more evident to us Again I would ask how they believe it to be revealed in Scripture that the Church is Infallible because of the Testimony of the Church No that they cannot say here but must alledge for it plain Scripture apert as promissiones clear promises as Bellar called them and must allow men the use of their reason judgment upon the evidence of them Well if they may believe that great point of the Infallibility of their Church upon immediate evidence of Scripture why may not we believe other points so too or why doe they condemn the Protestants for believing every point of Religion upon the same ground on which they themselves lay all their faith at once for they believe the Churches Infallibility revealed in Scripture because they see it as they say plainly promised there Now if they believing the Infallibility of their Church upon immediate evidence of Scripture can have certainty of belief why cannot we have like certainty upon the like evidence if they cannot have certainty in that particular then can they not have any certainty in any thing else which they believe upon that belief of an Infallibility in their Church Onely this they get by it and must answer for it one day that believing all things else upon the supposed Infallibility of their Church they are made to believe many things to be revealed in Scripture and to be the will of God which are not yea to believe contrary to that which is revealed as the half communion for the people Again they that understood and believed what the Apostles preached and wrote to them did it without the externall means of an Infallible Interpreter upon the evidence of what was spoken or written and therefore so may we Now to say They that spoke and wrote were Infallible and the other knew it to be so is no more than what we say Scripture is Infallible that speaks to us the same which they spoke and wrote and therefore we way as well understand and believe it upon the same evidence We doe not here as I insinuated before exclude the exterior helps means which God has appointed for interpreting and
clearing the Scriptures such as definitions of Councels the judgment and practice of Primitive Ages the skill and labour of the present Guides of the Church which make for the clearing and evidencing of that which is contained in Scripture but upon the evidence of that or manifestation of the truth out of that is the stay or last resolution of our Faith Waldensis a learned writer in the Church of Rome many years agoe with divers others doe well apply that of the Samaritans to the Wowan Now we believe for we have heard him our selves Joh. 4.42 unto this last resolution of Faith beginning in the Testimony of the Church as the first motive but ending and staying upon Scripture As they were first moved and brought to Christ upon the Womans saying but believed indeed when they heard him themselves So the saying and judgment of the Church at our first coming and after is a great motive and light to us but then indeed we believe when we hear him our selves when we hear him speak thus and thus to us in Scripture Now he that upon carefull and impartiall using the means God has appointed does search for the Truth shall finde what he seeks or not erre inpardonably whereas the Romanist receiving all upon a supposed infallible Testimony seeks no further comes not to audivimus ipsi we have heard him our selves blindly casts his faith upon a false ground and so is led to believe as I said many things as revealed of God which are not and sometimes the contrary to what is revealed Their third Reason is from pretence of Unity which they say is preserved amongst them by this means but lost among the Protestants for want of it and they instance in the breaches and confusions of these our Times Answ We had the same means for Unity which the Antient Church had as was said above ch 13. and so long as we could freely use them having the secular power to friend heresie and schisme was prevented and Unity preserved but when the sword of violence prevailed no marvail if Licentiousnesse grew bold and cast off the cords of obedience Ecclesiastical as well as Civil And we see this pretended Infallibility could not keep Burbon and his Army in order but that they sacked Rome made the Pope their prisoner and forced him to unworthy conditions And we read that Hereticks of old as Arrians and others when they had the Emperours favour bore down all before them so that this means of Infallibility either could not keep them from breaking out and prevailing or else which indeed is the truth there was no such belief of an Infallibility in the Church of Rome in those better Ages nor was it ever made use of or alledged against Hereticks to repress them The judgment indeed of the Bishops of Rome was often alledged as was also the judgment of other Churches and famous Bishops but this without implying an Infallibity in judging Nay this pretence of Infallibility is so farre from being cause of Unity in the Catholick Church that it has been the chief cause of division and of losing more than they retain by it The Greek Church stands dis-joyned from the Roman because of her challenging Universal subjection and Infallibility and therefore no more to be dealt with And this has lost all those that in these later Ages have been divided from the Communion of the Roman Church because the pretense of Infallibility made her incorrigible and cut off all hopes of her amending the errors they complained of and desired to have reformed So that let them cast up what they have lost and they will have no cause to boast of what they hold by it Nay did the Romanists truly confesse what belief they have of this Infallible Judge it would in all probability be found that not the faith of such Infallibility but the fear of Inquisition fire and faggot keeps those they have in obedience at least external But some of them have said This Rule or way if followed does produce Unity but the Protestants Rule of belief is not apt to doe it but rather begets division Answ It is true that their Infallibility though not Real but pretended where it is followed i. e. indeed believed will produce according to the strength of erroncous perswasions an answerable effect in those that are drawn to believe it for such must needs submit to all things else But being onely pretended not reall it cannot be apt to produce the effect or hold men to them but as we said has lost many Our Rule of believing upon evidence of Scripture gained by due use of the means appointed thereunto as above mentioned in this Chap. if conscionably followed will produce the effect of Unity and peaceable submission and is more apt to do it For therfore was Scripture given that there might be one Faith and certainly not given with such obscurity as to make men quarrel but with such evidence as men not wanting to themselves may therby come to know that one faith without such a visible Infallible Judge And when any will deceive themselves and prove obstinate the Church proceeds to restrain them by Ecclesiastical censure even to excommunication for preserving Unity in the rest And other means the Antient Church had not nor can the Roman goe farther in the way of the Church for as for fire and faggot it was the way of the Adversaries of the Churcith The Testimonies they cite out of Fathers are all not concluding They are such as send Hereticks to the Church in general as S. Augustine doth the Donatists often but this does not argue that we shall finde any where in the Church a Visible Infallible Guide Otherwise we say in every Church there are Guides and Pastors of publik judgment to whom inferiours must submit and the consent of the Catholick Church is above that Or else they are such Testimonies as report the judgment of the Bishop of Rome given in such or such causes and required by other Bishops or Churches But this comes not home neither For we finde the judgment of other Bishops and learned Fathers alledged and required and that by Popes themselves So was Athaâ—asius his judgment desired by Liberius and Hieromes often by Pope Damasus and that in matter of doctrinal points and with a great deal of submission to their judgment as to be guided by it as appears in Pope Liberius Letter to Athanasius and Damasus to Hierome One place of Irenaeus is much cited by them Ad quam propter potentiorem principalitatem c. lib. 3. cap. 2. which â—ndeed makes against them For this â—mplies neither Universal jurisdiction nor Infallibility in the Romish Church Neither did Irenaeus mean so much as the words by reason of the ill Latine Translation may seem to imply For the Greek had it as I have met with it and as the whole Context avouches it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and is ill translated potentiorem principalitatem but rather
of the persons interessed such we alledge As for example against those many Eulogies and high expressions which the Father 's used to the magnifying of the Church of Rome and S. Peters Chair abused now to prove that this Infallibility Vniversal Jurisdiction and exorbitant power challenged by the Bishop of Rome was acknowledged by Antiquity we bring deeds and those upon contestation as the standing out of Polycrates and all the Asian Bishops against the sentence of Pope Victor also in the contestation between S. Cyprian and Pope Stephen it is easily seen that Cyprian by all those speeches he had used to the magnifying of the Roman See and many they alledge out of him meant nothing lesse than to ascribe to that See what of late Ages they have challenged So in the contestation between the Roman See and the African Bishops among whom S. Augustine was one and one that used to speak sometimes very high of the Roman Church in the business of Appeals we see their judgement by their deeds We see also by this how that which is spoken by the Fathers may prove but uncertainly and unwarily spoken when it comes to the Trial and farre short of that the Church of Rome would have us believe they meant For it cannot be denied but the Fathers often speak with a Latitude and apply things to the present advantage As when they had to doe with Heresies newly sprung up they usually opposed the eminency of the Church of Rome as then indeed it was eminent both for succession and doctrine setting it out with glorious Titles or when the Fastern Bishops needed relief for the West enjoyed peace for the most part of the four first Centuries when the East was much troubled and applied themselves to Rome for help as Athanasius Chrysostome and others that their cause might be judged in the West by the Pope and his Councel when they could have no justice in the East no mervail if by such applications the Church and Bishop of Rome gained many high Titles and acknowledgments from such distressed persons and their Wel-wishers But when it came to a contestation with Rome it self as in the cases above-mentioned wherein Cyprian Augustine and others were engaged at several times it is plainly seen that those Testimonies which Cyprian Augustine and others had given in so high a strain meant not what they seemed at first sight to attest or what the Cardinal and other Romish writers bring them for Now they must acknowledge this used sometimes by the Fathers to apply their speech to the present advantage not indeed contradicting what they meant but moderating what before they spake more unwarily for the Cardinal observes the like of them l. 4. c. 3. That before the Arrians arose the Interpretation of that place of the Rock Mat. 16. run upon the person of Peter but afterwards the Fathers finding the advantage of the place against the Arrians interpreted it of the Confession which Peter made that Christ was the Son of the living God to this purpose he there And it comes all to this The Fathers before spake unwarily but afterward spake as they saw they had reason Yet thus it fared in this great point of Romes greatness for which they pretend the Fathers Therefore to conclude the second point the Romanists have the shadow the shell the name the phrase many times but we carry the substance shew the thing the sense the judgement the deeds of Antiquity 3. Sometimes we meet with beginnings of opinions and practises in the compasse of the first four Ages which the Church of Rome did after form into a fixt belief and practice but it was not so then Then indeed the seeds were scattered out of the which by degrees sprang some of this forbidden fruit which the Roman Church now holds forth As for Example The opinion of a purging fire was then but in the wandring conceits of some few as above insinuated in this Chap. and which is to be further noted those few into whose conceits it first entred were of the Greek Fathers yet so little did it prevail in that Church that to this day it is not improved into a doctrine or belief of the Church among the Greeks Which shews it rested but in the conceit of some particular men So for the point of Invocation we finde beginning given to that practice in the fourth Century by Rhetorical Apostrophe's used in their Orations for the Dead by the excesse of devotion and honour that some were carried with towards the blessed Martyrs breaking out sometimes into compellations of them and uttering their desires to them as if they had been present Here we have a private practice begun by some few not grounded upon any doctrine of the Church And long time after it was ere it crept into the Letanies or publick offices of the Church So in the point of the half-Communion we meet with some private practice some receiving the bread only in a case of necessity but publickly it was ever administred in both kindes and also privately where and when it could And many express declarations we meet with against receiving it in one kinde and when it was received so it was held an imperfect and not full Communion This is most plain in Antiquity for above 1000 years And now whoever will examine well the flourish of Card Perroun in his first book cap. 18. where running through all the points of Romish faith and practice he affirms the antient Church to have held and practised so will no question finde that what is there alledged falls short of proving the doctrine or practise of the ancient Church and that the Card. often gives us the Name without the Thing or the Phrase without the Romish sense or some private opinion for the doctrine of the Church or some beginning practise for an established one or a private practice for the practice of the Church Besides there is no consent of Fathers given in that Chapter upon any point CHAP. XXXI Card Perrons two Rules for knowing who and what is Catholick according to Antiquity ANd here it will not be amisse to take a view of two of his Rules or Observations which in his Letter to Mr. Casaubon he gives us to shew what is required to make a man or Church Catholick now according to the doctrines and practises of the antient Church By which I cannot see how himself or his Church can stand or challenge the name of Cathelick He there saith in his second observation That any should passe for Catholick it is needful they be conformable to the integrity of the belief of the Fathers i.e. to believe all things they believed according to that degree they believed them in viz to believe as necessary to salvation the things they believed to be so and as profitable to salvation the things they believed to be so and as not repugnant to salvation what they held so This is one of his Rules Here are strict