Selected quad for the lemma: church_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
church_n	abraham_n	child_n	seed_n	2,807	5	8.0209	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A78433	A sober ansvver, to a serious question. Propounded by Mr. G. Firmin minister of the church in Shalford in Essex. viz. Whether the ministers of England are bound, by the Word of God, to baptise the children of all such parents, which say, they believe in Jesus Christ: but are grosly ignorant, scandalous in their conversation, scoffers at godliness, and refuse to submit to church-discipline, the negative is not sufficiently defended. Which may serve also as an appendix to the diatribe with Mr. Hooker, lately published, concerning the baptisme of infants, of parents not confœderate. By Daniel Cavvdrey pastour of the church at Great Billing in Northampton-shire. Licensed, printed, and entred, according to order.	Cawdrey, Daniel, 1588-1664.	1652 (1652)	Wing C1636; Thomason E683_23; ESTC R206820	21,614	39

his_o reason_n be_v of_o no_o force_n for_o it_o shall_v thus_o proceed_v because_o beptisme_n belong_v both_o primary_o and_o only_o to_o the_o next_o parent_n which_o we_o have_v above_o deny_v and_o disprove_v in_o a_o word_n this_o argument_n hold_v only_o in_o respect_n to_o the_o person_n himself_o not_o to_o his_o child_n for_o certain_o the_o child_n that_o be_v baptise_a when_o a_o infant_n be_v the_o child_n of_o a_o member_n have_v right_o to_o baptism_n then_o though_o if_o when_o it_o grow_v up_o it_o prove_v ignorant_a or_o scandalous_a we_o may_v true_o say_v if_o he_o be_v now_o to_o be_v baptise_a he_o ought_v not_o to_o be_v baptise_a hence_o it_o may_v appear_v that_o the_o question_n will_v fall_v only_o upon_o such_o person_n when_o excommunicate_a which_o yet_o be_v no_o qualification_n express_v in_o his_o question_n for_o till_o they_o be_v eject_v they_o have_v right_a by_o his_o own_o confession_n for_o himself_o and_o they_o but_o of_o excommunicate_a person_n we_o have_v speak_v above_o the_o three_o argument_n be_v like_o the_o former_a such_o a_o parent_n be_v no_o disciple_n ergo_fw-la the_o child_n be_v none_o and_o then_o minister_n be_v not_o bind_v to_o baptize_v it_o by_o their_o commission_n we_o answer_v 1._o that_o commission_n be_v for_o the_o first_o gather_v of_o church_n not_o of_o church_n constitute_v 2._o we_o have_v prove_v above_o the_o child_n may_v be_v a_o member_n when_o the_o parent_n at_o present_a be_v none_o be_v excommunicate_v now_o a_o disciple_n and_o a_o member_n be_v all_o one_o 3._o such_o parent_n tolerate_v be_v member_n and_o so_o disciple_n ergo_fw-la the_o child_n be_v a_o disciple_n that_o then_o be_v not_o a_o sound_a assertion_n pag._n 20._o if_o i_o can_v give_v the_o child_n one_o seal_n of_o the_o covenant_n by_o virtue_n of_o the_o parent_n i_o will_v give_v the_o parent_n the_o other_o for_o i_o may_v see_v reason_n to_o deny_v the_o parent_n the_o lord_n supper_n and_o yet_o baptise_v his_o child_n because_o more_o be_v require_v of_o the_o one_o than_o of_o the_o other_o his_o four_o argument_n run_v thus_o to_o give_v the_o seal_n to_o the_o child_n of_o one_o visible_o in_o covenant_n with_o the_o devil_n be_v a_o profane_v of_o the_o ordinance_n etc._n etc._n but_o we_o deny_v that_o every_o ignorant_a scandalous_a person_n and_o the_o rest_n in_o the_o question_n be_v visible_o in_o covenant_n with_o the_o devil_n especial_o if_o tolerate_v by_o the_o church_n for_o so_o long_o he_o be_v visible_o in_o the_o external_a covenant_n of_o the_o church_n 2._o suppose_v the_o person_n be_v excommunicate_a and_o so_o deliver_v unto_o satan_n as_o the_o incestuous_a person_n be_v yet_o it_o be_v hard_a to_o say_v he_o be_v visible_o in_o covenant_n with_o satan_n though_o at_o present_a under_o his_o power_n 3._o every_o gross_a sin_n as_o in_o noah_n david_n etc._n etc._n do_v not_o conclude_v a_o man_n visible_o in_o covenant_n 190_o diatrib_o p._n 190_o much_o less_o ignorance_n as_o in_o child_n and_o youth_n baptise_a 2._o last_o of_o all_o one_o not_o convince_v and_o therefore_o not_o submit_v unto_o discipline_n see_v whether_o this_o new_a way_n lead_v its_o follower_n his_o five_o argument_n be_v take_v from_o mischief_n attend_v the_o common_a baptise_v of_o the_o child_n of_o such_o 1._o the_o slight_n of_o this_o ordinance_n without_o any_o preparation_n to_o it_o but_o all_o this_o may_v be_v amend_v by_o press_v the_o due_a reverence_n to_o this_o as_o to_o the_o other_o sacrament_n better_a then_o by_o debar_v the_o child_n its_o right_n for_o the_o parent_n fault_n 2._o be_v a_o jumble_v of_o the_o child_n of_o the_o most_o holy_a with_o the_o profane_v etc._n etc._n this_o fall_v upon_o himself_o for_o if_o the_o wicked_a parent_n be_v tolerate_v he_o will_v not_o he_o may_v not_o deny_v to_o baptise_v their_o child_n no_o more_o than_o of_o the_o holy_a parent_n he_o may_v grieve_v that_o he_o can_v reform_v this_o abuse_n but_o need_v not_o scruple_n to_o baptise_v their_o child_n nor_o to_o pray_v for_o they_o as_o for_o the_o other_o and_o now_o he_o come_v to_o the_o great_a objection_n the_o jew_n though_o very_o wicked_a have_v their_o child_n circumcise_v ergo_fw-la he_o answer_v many_o way_n 1._o he_o mention_n again_o that_o observation_n of_o gillespy_n that_o some_o say_v that_o the_o child_n of_o excommunicate_v jew_n be_v not_o circumcise_v but_o he_o do_v well_o to_o wave_v it_o as_o for_o what_o we_o say_v to_o it_o above_o so_o because_o it_o be_v nothing_o to_o the_o question_n which_o be_v not_o of_o excommunicate_v parent_n but_o wicked_a parent_n tolerate_v 2._o he_o suppose_v they_o be_v not_o so_o guilty_a of_o ignorance_n as_o many_o of_o we_o but_o that_o be_v nothing_o to_o the_o question_n their_o child_n be_v as_o ignorant_a as_o we_o and_o the_o parent_n never_o excommunicate_v for_o ignorance_n nor_o their_o child_n deny_v circumcision_n for_o that_o reason_n but_o close_a to_o the_o point_n he_o say_v 3._o he_o will_v see_v a_o proof_n that_o the_o priest_n do_v debar_v many_o from_o the_o passeover_n for_o moral_a uncleanness_n many_o year_n as_o we_o do_v from_o the_o supper_n and_o yet_o have_v their_o child_n circumcise_v we_o answer_v 1._o the_o priest_n be_v blame_v for_o admit_v the_o moral_o unclean_a to_o some_o ordinance_n but_o it_o concern_v he_o to_o prove_v where_o ever_o they_o be_v blame_v for_o circumcise_n the_o child_n of_o such_o see_v ezech._n 44.7.9_o cite_v by_o himself_o pag._n 35._o to_o the_o same_o end_n 2._o it_o be_v doubtful_a at_o least_o whether_o the_o practice_n of_o those_o minister_n can_v be_v justify_v who_o suspend_v any_o so_o long_o from_o the_o supper_n and_o yet_o baptise_v their_o child_n therefore_o that_o can_v be_v no_o safe_a ground_n to_o debar_v child_n of_o such_o from_o baptism_n of_o which_o see_v mr._n jeanes_n 4._o he_o conceive_v something_o peculiar_a to_o they_o in_o that_o national_a constitution_n from_o we_o god_n enter_v covenant_n with_o abraham_n and_o his_o family_n command_v he_o to_o circumcise_v his_o seed_n the_o constitution_n of_o our_o church_n do_v not_o begin_v with_o any_o particular_a person_n but_o make_v disciple_n and_o baptise_v they_o but_o this_o make_v no_o great_a difference_n for_o a_o church_n christian_n may_v begin_v with_o a_o person_n and_o his_o family_n suppose_v one_o of_o a_o numerous_a family_n when_o he_o be_v disciple_v his_o house_n be_v disciple_v with_o he_o and_o there_o may_v be_v a_o church_n in_o his_o house_n yea_o every_o householder_n convert_v to_o the_o faith_n be_v a_o child_n of_o abraham_n in_o one_o sense_n and_o a_o root_n to_o his_o posterity_n in_o another_o and_o so_o the_o promise_n be_v make_v to_o he_o and_o his_o seed_n not_o only_o of_o the_o next_o but_o of_o remote_a generation_n till_o they_o apostate_n as_o ishmael_n and_o esau_n do_v he_o yield_v pag._n 33._o that_o descent_n by_o the_o flesh_n be_v one_o though_o not_o the_o sole_a ground_n of_o circumcision_n and_o so_o it_o be_v now_o 1_o cor._n 7.14_o let_v we_o see_v what_o be_v peculiar_a to_o they_o 1._o when_o they_o come_v to_o john_n baptism_n it_o be_v not_o sufficient_a to_o plead_v we_o be_v abraham_n seed_n ergo_fw-la baptise_v we_o true_o because_o this_o be_v a_o new_a dispensation_n a_o new_a ordinance_n to_o which_o repentance_n be_v require_v in_o the_o first_o parent_n but_o not_o of_o their_o infant_n and_o just_o so_o it_o be_v in_o circumcision_n of_o proselyte_n to_o the_o jewish_a religion_n 2._o when_o they_o fall_v to_o foul_a apostasy_n their_o child_n be_v still_o circumcise_a whether_o regular_o he_o leave_v it_o yes_o regular_o for_o aught_o appear_v to_o the_o contrary_a the_o rule_n be_v abraham_n and_o his_o seed_n must_v be_v circumcise_v and_o so_o the_o proportion_n hold_v for_o baptism_n if_o the_o parent_n fall_v into_o apostasy_n the_o child_n may_v regular_o be_v baptize_v for_o aught_o appear_v in_o the_o gospel_n to_o the_o contrary_a if_o they_o will_v give_v they_o up_o to_o their_o pro-parent_n or_o friend_n and_o they_o will_v undertake_v for_o they_o and_o in_o such_o a_o case_n a_o minister_n will_v baptise_v they_o 3._o they_o be_v very_o exact_a in_o admission_n of_o heathen_n more_o require_a than_o to_o profess_v they_o do_v believe_v in_o god_n etc._n etc._n so_o will_v we_o be_v in_o admission_n of_o infidel_n but_o that_o be_v nothing_o to_o admission_n of_o their_o child_n 4._o it_o be_v true_a that_o wicked_a jew_n be_v member_n of_o that_o church_n national_a may_v challenge_v circumcision_n so_o for_o wicked_a person_n so_o long_o as_o they_o continue_v member_n and_o the_o church_n let_v they_o alone_o they_o may_v challenge_v baptism_n now_o this_o express_o yield_v both_o the_o present_a

consideration_n those_o thing_n to_o which_o little_o be_v say_v in_o that_o discourse_n as_o be_v then_o out_o of_o question_n his_o first_o premise_v be_v this_o the_o infant_n abstract_v from_o the_o parent_n give_v no_o reason_n why_o it_o shall_v be_v baptise_a to_o which_o otherwise_o propound_v by_o mr._n hooker_n we_o have_v answer_v already_o 18●_n diatrib_o 6._o p._n 18●_n and_o now_o explain_v ourselves_o further_o thus_o 1._o this_o be_v not_o right_o propose_v of_o all_o child_n or_o any_o whatsoever_o as_o appear_v because_o he_o speak_v indifferent_o of_o the_o child_n of_o a_o turk_n indian_a or_o christian_a live_v together_o in_o a_o parish_n or_o place_n a_o minister_n in_o such_o a_o case_n have_v reason_n to_o ask_v who_o child_n it_o be_v because_o two_o sort_n of_o the_o three_o have_v no_o right_n to_o baptism_n for_o themselves_o or_o they_o but_o the_o question_n intend_v to_o speak_v only_o of_o christian_n child_n for_o so_o it_o be_v propound_v not_o whether_o a_o minister_n at_o large_a in_o any_o place_n but_o of_o england_n where_o all_o be_v christian_n and_o profess_v to_o believe_v in_o jesus_n christ_n then_o it_o be_v suppose_v he_o will_v not_o ask_v who_o it_o be_v in_o that_o respect_n for_o it_o be_v not_o only_a home_n but_o a_o christian_a bear_v 2._o if_o he_o will_v as_o he_o may_v ask_v the_o question_n when_o a_o christian_n child_n be_v bring_v to_o be_v baptise_a it_o be_v not_o to_o know_v whether_o he_o be_v ignorant_a scandalous_a not_o submit_v to_o church-discipline_n etc._n etc._n or_o godly_a such_o question_n be_v never_o ask_v till_o these_o last_o overcurious_a day_n but_o that_o the_o parent_n may_v be_v present_a to_o undertake_v for_o the_o education_n of_o the_o child_n in_o the_o true_a religion_n the_o second_o premise_v be_v this_o all_o child_n be_v baptise_a by_o virtue_n of_o the_o parent_n one_o or_o both_o consider_v in_o relation_n to_o they_o this_o be_v mr._n hooker_n second_o premise_v conclusion_n only_o restrain_v to_o the_o next_o parent_n which_o be_v intend_v by_o our_o author_n also_o 187._o ibid._n p._n 187._o to_o which_o much_o have_v be_v say_v and_o now_o we_o add_v 1._o this_o in_o effect_n be_v the_o same_o with_o the_o former_a that_o the_o negative_a the_o child_n bring_v nothing_o of_o itself_o to_o baptism_n this_o the_o affirmative_a the_o parent_n only_o give_v it_o right_n thereto_o 2._o it_o take_v for_o grant_v what_o be_v deny_v these_o two_o thing_n first_o that_o there_o be_v no_o way_n to_o admit_v a_o child_n to_o baptism_n but_o parental_a by_o virtue_n of_o and_o relation_n to_o the_o parent_n second_o and_o that_o not_o the_o proparent_n or_o predecessor_n but_o the_o next_o immediate_a parent_n which_o be_v two_o question_n the_o first_o whereof_o he_o medle_n not_o with_o at_o al._n 3._o in_o state_v of_o this_o second_o premise_v he_o take_v occasion_n to_o define_v a_o church_n a_o society_n of_o visible_a saint_n join_v together_o by_o way_n of_o covenant_n etc._n etc._n where_o two_o thing_n be_v to_o i_o observable_a 1._o that_o he_o seem_v to_o own_v no_o catholic_a church_n but_o a_o particular_a congregation_n nor_o any_o member_n of_o a_o church_n but_o of_o such_o a_o church_n for_o else_o a_o new_a question_n may_v arise_v whether_o a_o man_n convert_v to_o the_o faith_n but_o as_o yet_o confoederate_a with_o no_o particular_a church_n but_o if_o of_o any_o only_a of_o the_o catholic_n church_n be_v to_o be_v repute_v a_o church_n member_n and_o have_v any_o right_a to_o require_v baptism_n for_o his_o child_n 2._o he_o require_v a_o explicit_a covenant_n to_o such_o a_o church_n seem_v not_o only_o to_o contradict_v himself_o in_o his_o epistle_n where_o he_o grant_v a_o implicit_a covenant_n to_o be_v sufficient_a but_o also_o to_o un-church_n most_o of_o our_o english_a church_n for_o want_v of_o this_o explicite_fw-la covenant_n and_o consequent_o to_o agree_v with_o the_o independent_o as_o in_o that_o point_n so_o in_o this_o in_o deny_v baptism_n to_o any_o child_n but_o of_o member_n explicit_o in_o covenant_n have_v premise_v thus_o he_o infer_v this_o conclusion_n upon_o this_o ground_n all_o our_o argument_n against_o the_o anabaptist_n stand_v and_o if_o this_o be_v take_v away_o infant_n baptism_n must_v fall_v to_o which_o i_o say_v our_o argument_n against_o the_o anabaptist_n stand_v not_o upon_o this_o ground_n only_o but_o their_o argument_n against_o infant_n baptism_n stand_v upon_o the_o notion_n of_o a_o explicite_fw-la covenant_n to_o be_v make_v by_o every_o one_o that_o be_v baptise_a and_o if_o we_o have_v no_o better_a ground_n than_o a_o explicite_fw-la covenant_n our_o cause_n must_v fall_v 186._o diatrib_o 6._o p._n 186._o the_o difference_n be_v not_o great_a the_o anabaptist_n exclude_v child_n because_o they_o be_v not_o able_a to_o covenant_n in_o person_n in_o the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n the_o independent_o exclude_v child_n of_o parent_n not_o join_v to_o gether_o in_o a_o church-covenant_n and_o so_o in_o their_o sense_n no_o member_n of_o a_o church_n as_o be_v say_v elsewhere_o as_o for_o that_o argument_n pag._n 2._o charge_v upon_o amesius_n and_o other_o it_o be_v i_o suppose_v mistake_v for_o it_o be_v not_o bring_v immediate_o to_o prove_v child_n baptism_n because_o they_o be_v capable_a of_o the_o grace_n of_o baptism_n man_n also_o be_v but_o mere_a patient_n in_o the_o first_o receive_v of_o it_o but_o by_o way_n of_o answer_n to_o a_o objection_n make_v against_o it_o by_o the_o anabaptist_n they_o plead_v that_o child_n have_v not_o nor_o be_v capable_a of_o the_o grace_n of_o faith_n and_o repentance_n ergo_fw-la not_o to_o be_v baptize_v our_o divine_n deny_v the_o consequence_n upon_o this_o ground_n they_o be_v capable_a of_o grace_n as_o well_o as_o man_n of_o year_n both_o be_v alike_o but_o patient_n in_o the_o first_o receive_v of_o grace_n therefore_o that_o can_v be_v no_o bar_n to_o their_o baptism_n but_o enough_o of_o that_o it_o be_v not_o proper_o speak_v pag._n 3._o to_o say_v the_o morality_n of_o that_o command_n to_o abraham_n to_o circumcise_v his_o seed_n with_o himself_o stand_v thus_o that_o the_o child_n of_o believer_n must_v have_v the_o imitate_v seal_n the_o analogy_n indeed_o stand_v fair_a under_o several_a dispensation_n of_o the_o same_o covenant_n that_o as_o circumcision_n then_o so_o baptism_n how_o belong_v to_o believer_n and_o their_o child_n unless_o god_n reveal_v himself_o to_o the_o contrary_a which_o concern_v anabaptist_n to_o prove_v by_o express_a scripture_n as_o he_o say_v which_o they_o can_v never_o do_v nay_o the_o contrary_n be_v evident_o continue_v act._n 2.38_o etc._n etc._n 1_o cor._n 7.14_o etc._n etc._n the_o seed_n be_v holy_a by_o the_o parent_n if_o he_o shall_v plead_v a_o morality_n in_o that_o command_n the_o anabaptist_n will_v easy_o deny_v it_o and_o put_v the_o difference_n there_o be_v express_v command_n for_o child_n circumcision_n not_o so_o for_o their_o baptism_n it_o be_v enough_o it_o can_v be_v prove_v by_o consequence_n from_o scripture_n concern_v the_o question_n about_o predecessor_n give_v right_o to_o child_n baptism_n much_o need_v not_o to_o be_v say_v here_o it_o be_v large_o discuss_v in_o the_o foresay_a diatribe_n with_o mr._n hooker_n pag._n 188._o and_o afterward_o all_o that_o i_o shall_v say_v now_o be_v this_o 1._o what_o england_n be_v when_o austin_n come_v into_o england_n we_o need_v not_o much_o inquire_v for_o we_o look_v at_o england_n as_o many_o year_n since_o reform_v we_o need_v not_o go_v to_o many_o generation_n past_a there_o be_v some_o alive_a that_o have_v or_o have_v predecessor_n know_v to_o be_v godly_a let_v the_o question_n be_v of_o they_o and_o two_o of_o they_o undertake_v for_o the_o christian_a education_n of_o the_o child_n and_o though_o it_o be_v true_a that_o some_o people_n receive_v the_o gospel_n after_o the_o example_n of_o their_o king_n and_o be_v baptise_a for_o company_n as_o simon_n magus_n it_o seem_v be_v and_o suppose_v it_o be_v but_o in_o outward_a profession_n only_o yet_o that_o be_v sufficient_a to_o give_v they_o right_o to_o baptism_n for_o themselves_o and_o they_o and_o consequent_o they_o be_v a_o true_a church_n though_o not_o a_o perfect_a and_o pure_a church_n for_o my_o part_n i_o shall_v not_o plead_v that_o promise_n in_o the_o second_o commandment_n show_v mercy_n to_o thousand_o etc._n etc._n but_o rather_o that_o to_o abraham_n i_o be_o thy_o god_n and_o the_o god_n of_o thy_o seed_n which_o whoever_o will_v restrain_v to_o the_o next_o generation_n only_o it_o concern_v he_o to_o prove_v by_o express_a scripture_n as_o he_o require_v above_o in_o a_o like_a case_n of_o anabaptist_n that_o god_n be_v not_o the_o god_n of_o the_o seed_n of_o a_o godly_a christian_a in_o a_o