that_o though_o there_o be_v officer_n in_o a_o church_n yet_o the_o people_n may_v ordain_v which_o i_o be_o sure_a those_o divine_n who_o be_v for_o the_o people_n power_n in_o ordination_n will_v never_o admit_v be_v cross_a to_o their_o own_o principle_n and_o scripture_n 4_o we_o find_v in_o the_o eleven_o verse_n that_o after_o that_o be_v do_v aaron_n do_v wave_v these_o levite_n before_o the_o lord_n so_o that_o they_o be_v not_o complete_a till_o aaron_n have_v do_v his_o act_n whence_o i_o remember_v learned_a master_n cotton_n in_o his_o discourse_n with_o i_o say_v the_o people_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d there_o do_v but_o answer_v to_o the_o people_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d in_o the_o new_a testament_n and_o aaron_n wave_v of_o they_o do_v answer_v to_o our_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d this_o clause_n only_o i_o remember_v but_o he_o have_v a_o large_a answer_n which_o i_o take_v from_o he_o in_o discourse_n by_o which_o i_o remember_v he_o do_v enervate_a this_o objection_n but_o i_o lose_v his_o note_n with_o all_o my_o other_o help_n in_o my_o shipwreck_n these_o man_n call_v for_o precept_n and_o example_n give_v you_o we_o one_o for_o this_o in_o the_o new_a testament_n for_o you_o put_v we_o to_o that_o also_o we_o must_v give_v you_o they_o out_o of_o the_o new_a testament_n yea_o iwould_v go_v further_o and_o desire_v they_o to_o give_v i_o one_o examplein_n the_o first_o six_o hundred_o year_n after_o christ_n that_o ever_o the_o people_n do_v ordain_v their_o minister_n now_o this_o be_v strange_a to_o i_o that_o we_o can_v find_v no_o foot-step_n of_o any_o such_o thing_n in_o the_o scripture_n nor_o in_o the_o age_n next_o and_o yet_o that_o we_o shall_v make_v it_o so_o frequent_a that_o they_o must_v ordain_v most_o frequent_o for_o if_o every_o particular_a church_n be_v independent_a as_o now_o such_o a_o church_n where_o i_o be_o in_o a_o small_a village_n where_o the_o maintenance_n will_v not_o keep_v one_o minister_n and_o therefore_o to_o be_v sure_o we_o can_v have_v more_o minister_n then_o if_o the_o minister_n remove_v or_o die_v if_o there_o come_v a_o new_a minister_n the_o people_n must_v ever_o ordain_v thus_o it_o must_v be_v in_o most_o place_n in_o england_n few_o will_v be_v except_v 2_o justin_n mart._n apol_n 2_o and_o if_o every_o new_a election_n must_v have_v a_o new_a ordination_n than_o it_o must_v always_o be_v in_o the_o people_n power_n in_o the_o primitive_a time_n there_o be_v church_n in_o city_n and_o village_n but_o that_o the_o christian_n in_o village_n do_v ordain_v their_o officer_n i_o will_v glad_o see_v that_o prove_v ordination_n in_o those_o time_n be_v carry_v by_o a_o continue_a succession_n the_o apostle_n ordain_v some_o minister_n those_o ordain_o other_o so_o downward_o but_o never_o by_o the_o people_n learned_a dr._n 6_o â—ell_o enter_fw-mi to_o 2._o l._n 3._o c._n 2._o s_o 6_o ames_n seem_v to_o answer_v this_o for_o whereas_o bellarmine_n have_v say_v in_o novo_fw-la testamento_fw-la ubicunque_fw-la mentio_fw-la fit_a manunm_fw-la impositionis_fw-la semper_fw-la ea_fw-la apostolis_n caeterisque_fw-la episcapis_fw-la nunquà m_fw-la vero_fw-la plebi_fw-la tribuitur_fw-la the_o doctor_n answer_v to_o this_o in_o historiâ_fw-la novi_fw-la testamenti_fw-la exempla_fw-la babemus_fw-la constitutionis_fw-la ministerii_fw-la &_o ejusdem_fw-la etiam_fw-la conservationis_fw-la sed_fw-la non_fw-la restaurationis_fw-la ejus_fw-la aut_fw-la reformationis_fw-la post_fw-la generalem_fw-la apostasiam_fw-la omne_fw-la igitur_fw-la quae_fw-la pertinent_a ad_fw-la plebem_fw-la fidelem_fw-la in_fw-la tali_fw-la casu_fw-la non_fw-la representantur_fw-la ibi_fw-la certis_fw-la exemplis_fw-la however_o these_o word_n seem_v to_o carry_v it_o as_o if_o the_o doctor_n do_v hold_v that_o the_o people_n have_v this_o power_n in_o a_o general_a apostasy_n yet_o i_o question_v whether_o the_o doctor_n will_v look_v upon_o the_o church_n of_o england_n now_o under_o such_o a_o notion_n neither_o will_v he_o deny_v the_o ordination_n of_o our_o minister_n to_o be_v valid_a for_o substance_n but_o yet_o hear_v one_o may_v cast_v in_o something_o in_o time_n of_o reformation_n it_o may_v be_v he_o say_v 1_o to_o reform_v the_o minister_n be_v to_o form_n it_o now_o as_o it_o be_v first_o form_v but_o the_o ministry_n be_v not_o at_o first_o form_v by_o the_o people_n ergo_fw-la the_o ministry_n can_v be_v now_o reform_v by_o the_o people_n i_o think_v the_o major_n will_v not_o be_v deny_v for_o the_o minor_a let_v any_o prove_v that_o according_a to_o this_o some_o will_v say_v we_o must_v have_v apostle_n they_o form_v the_o minister_n first_o we_o speak_v of_o ordination_n i_o say_v non_fw-la sequitur_fw-la unless_o you_o can_v prove_v the_o apostle_n ordain_v only_o quâ_fw-la apostle_n if_o so_o i_o know_v not_o how_o those_o minister_n who_o the_o apostle_n do_v ordain_v can_v ordain_v other_o but_o to_o be_v sure_a they_o do_v 2_o i_o desire_n a_o text_n of_o scripture_n that_o hold_v out_o this_o that_o the_o people_n may_v ordain_v in_o a_o general_a apostasy_n 3_o i_o doubt_v we_o shall_v rare_o find_v such_o time_n when_o there_o be_v a_o society_n of_o godly_a christian_n to_o ordain_v but_o there_o be_v some_o minister_n also_o ordinary_o there_o be_v minister_n who_o teach_v this_o people_n 4_o it_o will_v be_v a_o question_n whether_o the_o apostasy_n have_v be_v such_o as_o to_o require_v this_o for_o if_o baptism_n be_v not_o repeat_v but_o be_v think_v valid_a though_o administer_v by_o a_o romish_a minister_n because_o he_o be_v set_v apart_o to_o the_o work_n and_o keep_v the_o essence_n of_o the_o ordinance_n why_o may_v not_o the_o ordination_n administer_v by_o those_o minister_n hold_v as_o well_o 2_o a_o second_o ground_n that_o make_v i_o doubt_n be_v this_o it_o seem_v strange_a to_o i_o that_o christ_n shall_v appoint_v extraordinary_a officer_n and_o make_v that_o a_o part_n of_o their_o work_n which_o the_o people_n themselves_o may_v do_v paul_n leave_v titus_n to_o ordain_v but_o what_o need_v that_o the_o people_n may_v well_o say_v what_o need_n paul_n leave_v titus_n to_o do_v that_o which_o we_o can_v do_v ourselves_o frustra_fw-la fit_a per_fw-la plura_fw-la etc._n etc._n the_o apostle_n never_o need_v but_o to_o preach_v and_o convert_v the_o people_n to_o the_o faith_n when_o they_o have_v do_v so_o they_o shall_v have_v say_v we_o have_v now_o do_v our_o work_n bring_v you_o to_o be_v believer_n you_o may_v now_o elect_v a_o officer_n and_o ordain_v he_o yourselves_o the_o power_n be_v you_o only_o here_o will_v have_v be_v some_o trouble_n about_o baptise_v since_o than_o i_o find_v that_o this_o be_v part_n of_o their_o office_n than_o i_o can_v believe_v this_o be_v the_o people_n work_n paul_n may_v easy_o have_v leave_v we_o a_o precedent_n in_o some_o society_n of_o christian_n that_o will_v have_v quiet_v all_o our_o dispute_n more_o may_v be_v say_v and_o be_v say_v by_o other_o but_o i_o see_v our_o new_a england_n divine_v do_v almost_o yield_v it_o by_o give_v power_n to_o some_o minister_n to_o ordain_v in_o other_o congregation_n since_o nothing_o can_v be_v draw_v from_o scripture_n by_o precept_n or_o example_n to_o prove_v this_o hence_o some_o will_v draw_v it_o out_o by_o argument_n those_o who_o can_v do_v the_o great_a may_v do_v the_o less_o the_o people_n can_v do_v the_o great_a viz._n elect_v ergo_fw-la the_o minor_a be_v as_o free_o deny_v as_o it_o be_v affirm_v election_n be_v not_o the_o great_a scripture-light_n be_v judge_n that_o be_v the_o design_n i_o doubt_v of_o make_v ordination_n but_o a_o adjunct_n for_o so_o indeed_o it_o will_v easy_o be_v grant_v if_o election_n give_v the_o essence_n and_o this_o only_o be_v a_o adjunct_n the_o people_n may_v well_o ordain_v yea_o and_o in_o a_o church_n where_o there_o be_v officer_n to_o ordain_v i_o know_v not_o why_o they_o who_o give_v the_o essence_n may_v not_o give_v the_o adjunct_n why_o shall_v a_o adjunct_n be_v proper_a to_o the_o officer_n only_o in_o that_o church_n when_o the_o essence_n do_v not_o belong_v to_o they_o 10._o mr._n n._n w._n omnis_fw-la quaestio_fw-la non_fw-la per_fw-la aliud_fw-la quod_fw-la quaeritur_fw-la babebit_fw-la resolutionem_fw-la nec_fw-la ambiguitas_fw-la per_fw-la ambiguitatem_fw-la sed_fw-la ex_fw-la elaris_fw-la manifestis_fw-la etc._n etc._n irenae_n l._n 2._o c._n 10._o further_o than_o as_o member_n they_o join_v with_o the_o people_n for_o so_o it_o seem_v the_o officer_n elect_v as_o member_n and_o if_o you_o do_v elect_v only_o as_o member_n why_o shall_v you_o not_o also_o ordain_v as_o member_n for_o election_n be_v the_o great_a this_o the_o less_o the_o other_o argument_n be_v the_o people_n be_v the_o first_o subject_n of_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n ergo_fw-la but_o this_o be_v not_o easy_o yield_v it_o be_v a_o
must_v not_o go_v to_o they_o but_o similia_fw-la ad_fw-la pompam_fw-la non_fw-la ad_fw-la pugnam_fw-la the_o analogy_n between_o a_o commonwealth_n and_o the_o church_n will_v not_o hold_v as_o i_o may_v touch_v afterward_o but_o this_o i_o be_o sure_a according_a to_o that_o practice_n that_o seven_o make_v a_o church_n they_o may_v admit_v five_o or_o six_o whole_a church_n and_o a_o pastor_n choose_v by_o none_o of_o they_o may_v administer_v the_o sacrament_n to_o they_o all_o at_o one_o time_n but_o do_v we_o find_v whole_a corporation_n go_v to_o the_o mayor_n of_o another_o corporation_n for_o justice_n mr._n philip_n pastor_n of_o the_o church_n in_o water-town_n while_o mr._n wilson_n pastor_n of_o the_o church_n of_o boston_n be_v here_o in_o england_n go_v to_o boston_n and_o administer_v the_o lord_n supper_n to_o that_o church_n i_o be_v not_o then_o in_o the_o country_n but_o i_o hear_v of_o it_o soon_o after_o when_o i_o go_v over_o with_o mr._n wilson_n i_o know_v no_o sin_n in_o that_o act_n i_o think_v to_o have_v give_v some_o instance_n how_o frequent_a this_o be_v in_o the_o primitive_a church_n 196_o vind._n cath._n à _fw-la 192_o ad_fw-la 196_o for_o one_o minister_n to_o act_v official_o beyond_o the_o people_n who_o elect_v he_o but_o mr._n hudson_n a_o man_n far_o more_o able_a have_v set_v down_o those_o example_n which_o i_o will_v have_v give_v and_o many_o more_o to_o who_o i_o refer_v the_o reader_n yea_o it_o be_v ordinary_a for_o the_o member_n of_o one_o church_n to_o dwell_v one_o or_o two_o year_n nay_o six_o or_o seven_o year_n in_o another_o town_n and_o to_o partake_v of_o the_o sacrament_n there_o as_o frequent_o as_o any_o of_o the_o member_n of_o that_o church_n indeed_o of_o late_a the_o elder_n have_v not_o like_v this_o to_o have_v they_o live_v so_o remote_a from_o the_o inspection_n of_o their_o own_o officer_n and_o therefore_o have_v require_v such_o to_o join_v with_o the_o church_n where_o they_o dwell_v this_o be_v good_a and_o orderly_a the_o letter_n also_o of_o recommendation_n which_o the_o church_n make_v for_o the_o member_n when_o they_o come_v over_o hither_o require_v of_o the_o church_n here_o what_o communion_n counsel_n or_o comfort_n they_o shall_v need_v promise_v the_o performance_n of_o the_o like_a debt_n to_o other_o etc._n etc._n 2._o also_o i_o see_v if_o a_o man_n be_v excommunicate_v out_o of_o one_o church_n he_o stand_v excommunicate_v out_o of_o they_o all_o but_o if_o a_o man_n be_v disfranchise_v in_o one_o corporation_n another_o corporation_n may_v receive_v he_o and_o give_v he_o his_o freedom_n if_o they_o please_v this_o show_v there_o be_v something_o more_o in_o a_o church_n then_o in_o a_o commonwealth_n 3._o i_o see_v they_o preach_v frequent_o in_o other_o church_n but_o that_o it_o shall_v be_v only_o as_o gift_a brethren_n this_o be_v so_o harsh_a to_o conceive_v i_o pray_v what_o act_n do_v the_o mayor_n of_o one_o corporation_n do_v in_o another_o corporation_n like_o this_o that_o carry_v authority_n in_o it_o and_o that_o here_o we_o must_v distinguish_v of_o the_o mayor_n if_o he_o do_v this_o at_o home_n he_o do_v it_o as_o a_o mayor_n authoritative_o but_o in_o this_o corporation_n he_o do_v it_o as_o a_o private_a man_n further_o they_o be_v minister_n or_o pastor_n only_o to_o those_o who_o elect_v and_o the_o fraternity_n only_o elect_v where_o there_o be_v no_o officer_n but_o there_o be_v divers_a in_o the_o several_a town_n who_o be_v not_o join_v to_o the_o church_n so_o they_o do_v not_o elect_v than_o it_o seem_v they_o preach_v as_o pastor_n only_o to_o those_o who_o elect_v but_o to_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o town_n as_o gift_a man_n consequent_o when_o god_n bless_v their_o labour_n to_o the_o conversion_n of_o any_o of_o those_o they_o convert_v they_o instrumental_o not_o as_o minister_n of_o christ_n ordain_v separate_v to_o that_o work_n but_o only_o as_o gift_a man_n yea_o they_o never_o convert_v any_o as_o minister_n unless_o some_o of_o those_o who_o elect_v they_o be_v close_a hypocrite_n and_o so_o they_o convert_v they_o but_o ordinary_o those_o who_o choose_v be_v repute_v godly_a already_o and_o they_o be_v minister_n only_o to_o they_o hence_o rise_v that_o vile_a notion_n that_o some_o here_o have_v take_v up_o that_o pastor_n shall_v preach_v only_o to_o the_o edification_n of_o the_o saint_n not_o to_o other_o 4._o i_o have_v hear_v since_o i_o come_v away_o that_o when_o people_n have_v choose_v a_o officer_n and_o have_v no_o officer_n to_o ordain_v he_o that_o the_o minister_n of_o other_o congregation_n have_v do_v it_o and_o the_o confession_n of_o church-discipline_n by_o the_o synod_n of_o new_a england_n as_o also_o mr._n hooker_n 59_o survey_v part_n 2._o pag._n 59_o allow_v as_o much_o 5._o if_o one_o congregation_n shall_v prove_v pertinacious_o scandalous_a and_o heretical_a then_o though_o they_o do_v not_o formal_o excommunicate_v such_o a_o congregation_n yet_o all_o the_o church_n in_o the_o country_n will_v proceed_v to_o the_o non-communion_n of_o such_o a_o church_n and_o for_o all_o the_o church_n to_o express_v so_o much_o to_o such_o a_o church_n we_o do_v all_o renounce_v communion_n with_o you_o etc._n etc._n this_o amount_n to_o a_o censure_n and_o be_v equivalent_a to_o excommunication_n contain_v in_o it_o all_o the_o effect_n that_o appear_v in_o excommunication_n and_o so_o i_o shall_v reckon_v myself_o as_o much_o excommunicate_v mr._n burrough_n say_v they_o may_v by_o a_o solemn_a act_n in_o the_o name_n of_o christ_n 43._o iren._n 43._o refuse_v any_o communion_n with_o they_o till_o they_o repent_v they_o may_v declare_v in_o the_o name_n of_o christ_n that_o these_o err_a church_n be_v not_o to_o be_v receive_v into_o fellowship_n with_o any_o church_n of_o christ_n nor_o to_o have_v communion_n one_o with_o another_o in_o the_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n all_o this_o solemn_o in_o christ_n name_n only_o some_o may_v be_v will_v say_v if_o this_o be_v a_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n bring_v out_o the_o text_n to_o prove_v this_o and_o then_o we_o shall_v see_v if_o those_o text_n will_v not_o bear_v it_o out_o that_o the_o church_n unite_v thus_o in_o this_o censure_n have_v not_o some_o authority_n over_o that_o particular_a church_n if_o you_o go_v to_o the_o old_a polity_n the_o synedrion_n have_v power_n over_o particular_a congregation_n if_o to_o light_v of_o nature_n that_o will_v carry_v it_o so_o that_o we_o must_v have_v text_n to_o decide_v this_o question_n for_o my_o part_n i_o must_v leave_v this_o to_o better_a head_n lay_v all_o together_o the_o church_n seem_v to_o pactise_v as_o if_o there_o be_v such_o a_o church_n some_o thing_n there_o be_v which_o a_o little_a trouble_n i_o in_o this_o notion_n that_o make_v i_o not_o come_v off_o so_o roundly_o in_o receive_v it_o i_o question_v not_o the_o church-catholicke-visible_a but_o i_o mean_v that_o it_o be_v one_o organical_a body_n but_o as_o he_o say_v veritas_fw-la est_fw-la temporis_fw-la filia_fw-la so_o i_o believe_v time_n will_v cleave_v out_o this_o but_o so_o much_o i_o see_v as_o command_v i_o to_o lean_a to_o that_o side_n i_o be_v think_v how_o dangerous_a this_o may_v prove_v if_o the_o major_a part_n of_o the_o catholick-visible-church_n shall_v decline_v grow_v superstitious_a etc._n etc._n other_o church_n yet_o remain_v pure_a if_o they_o do_v not_o subject_a to_o the_o major_a part_n what_o then_o but_o i_o see_v inconvenience_n also_o on_o the_o other_o side_n if_o a_o congregation_n be_v so_o entire_a that_o they_o can_v elect_v ordain_v and_o be_v exempt_v from_o all_o power_n than_o arian_n photinian_o and_o all_o manner_n of_o heretic_n may_v elect_v ordain_v etc._n etc._n who_o shall_v deny_v they_o and_o beside_o suppose_v the_o major_a part_n of_o congregationall_a church_n shall_v decline_v they_o will_v proceed_v to_o non-communion_n of_o other_o particular_a church_n more_o pure_a and_o this_o be_v in_o a_o manner_n all_o one_o further_o if_o so_o then_o if_o a_o minister_n be_v remove_v from_o one_o congregation_n to_o another_o or_o if_o his_o people_n shall_v die_v he_o now_o be_v but_o a_o private_a person_n and_o may_v nor_o baptise_v etc._n etc._n hence_o also_o he_o must_v have_v another_o ordination_n when_o elect_v and_o as_o oft_o as_o he_o be_v elect_v it_o i_o have_v not_o hear_v any_o there_o but_o here_o allege_v it_o i_o confess_v i_o be_o not_o clear_a in_o the_o practice_n i_o have_v search_v to_o find_v what_o scripturall_a ground_n there_o be_v for_o it_o but_o i_o find_v none_o that_o these_o reverend_n elder_n express_v some_o have_v allege_v in_o conference_n that_o act._n 13.3_o paul_n and_o barnabas_n be_v ordain_v before_o and_o now_o they_o be_v ordain_v again_o but_o i_o find_v mr._n
separation_n examine_v or_o a_o treatise_n wherein_o the_o ground_n for_o separation_n from_o the_o ministry_n and_o church_n of_o england_n be_v weigh_v and_o find_v too_o light_a the_o practice_n prove_v to_o be_v not_o only_o unwarrantable_a but_o likewise_o so_o hurtful_a to_o the_o church_n that_o church-reformation_n can_v with_o any_o comfort_n go_v forward_o so_o long_o as_o such_o separation_n be_v tolerate_v also_o a_o humble_a request_n present_v to_o the_o congregational_a divine_n that_o since_o the_o difference_n between_o they_o and_o the_o classical-divines_a be_v very_o small_a they_o will_v please_v to_o strike_v in_o with_o the_o classical-divines_a in_o carry_v on_o the_o work_n of_o reformation_n before_o the_o inundation_n of_o these_o corrupt_a opinion_n have_v destroy_v both_o ordinance_n and_o religion_n by_o gi._n firmin_n minister_n to_o the_o church_n in_o shalford_n in_o essex_n 1_o cor._n 1.10_o now_o i_o beseech_v you_o brethren_z by_o the_o name_n of_o our_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n that_o you_o all_o speak_v the_o same_o thing_n and_o that_o there_o be_v no_o schism_n among_o you_o judicabit_fw-la autem_fw-la &_o eosqui_fw-la schismata_fw-la operantur_fw-la qui_fw-la sunt_fw-la immanes_a non_fw-la habentes_fw-la dei_fw-la dilectionem_fw-la suamque_fw-la utilitatem_fw-la potius_fw-la considerantes_fw-la quà m_fw-la unitatem_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la propter_fw-la modicas_fw-la &_o quaslibet_fw-la causas_fw-la magnum_fw-la &_o gloriosum_fw-la corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la conscindunt_fw-la &_o dividunt_fw-la etc._n etc._n irenae_n l._n 4._o c._n 62._o cavenda_fw-la sunt_fw-la autem_fw-la fratres_fw-la dilectissimi_fw-la non_fw-la solum_fw-la quae_fw-la sunt_fw-la aperta_fw-la &_o manifesta_fw-la sed_fw-la &_o astutae_fw-la fraudis_fw-la subtilitate_fw-la fallentia_fw-la etc._n etc._n haeteses_fw-la invenit_fw-la &_o schismata_fw-la quibus_fw-la subverteret_fw-la fidem_fw-la veritatem_fw-la corrumperet_fw-la scinderet_fw-la unitatem_fw-la cypr._n de_fw-fr unit_fw-la eccles_n london_n print_v by_o r._n i._n for_o stephen_n bowtell_n at_o the_o bible_n in_o popes-head-alley_n 1652._o the_o content_n there_o be_v true_a visible_a church_n in_o england_n pag._n 1_o there_o be_v a_o true_a gospel-ministry_n in_o england_n pag._n 4._o the_o ground_n of_o separation_n must_v be_v either_o in_o the_o ministry_n worship_n congregation_n or_o place_n of_o meeting_n p._n 12_o the_o ordination_n of_o the_o minister_n by_o bishop_n can_v be_v no_o ground_n for_o separation_n p._n 22_o there_o can_v be_v no_o ground_n in_o the_o worship_n be_v sing_v of_o psalm_n be_v here_o touch_v p._n 32_o there_o can_v be_v no_o ground_n in_o the_o congregation_n though_o many_o wicked_a person_n be_v there_o nor_o in_o the_o place_n of_o meeting_n p._n 39_o the_o proposal_n of_o the_o separatist_n what_o they_o will_v have_v be_v set_v down_o and_o answer_v return_v as_o 1_o they_o will_v have_v minister_n lay_v down_o their_o former_a call_n and_o join_v with_o they_o than_o they_o it_o may_v be_v will_v elect_v they_o and_o ordain_v they_o where_o this_o question_n be_v handle_v p._n 46_o quest_n whether_o election_n only_o give_v the_o essential_o to_o a_o minister_n and_o ordination_n be_v but_o a_o adjunct_n p._n 50_o whether_o the_o people_n have_v power_n to_o ordain_v p._n 70_o whether_o the_o fraternity_n be_v the_o first_o subject_n of_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n brief_o touch_v p._n 73_o 2_o they_o will_v have_v a_o explicit_a covenant_n which_o they_o call_v the_o form_n of_o a_o church_n p._n 81_o 3_o no_o church-member_n but_o visible_a saint_n p._n 82_o 4_o power_n in_o admission_n and_o excommunication_n p._n 83_o 5_o liberty_n to_o prophesy_v p._n 84_o 6_o liberty_n of_o conscience_n p._n 88_o how_o it_o appear_v that_o church-reformation_n can_v with_o comfort_v proceed_v so_o long_o as_o the_o separation_n be_v tolerate_v p._n 91_o the_o separatist_n be_v no_o such-friend_n to_o the_o civil_a power_n as_o be_v pretend_v p._n 94_o the_o question_n propound_v to_o the_o separatist_n in_o reference_n to_o their_o separation_n p._n 97_o the_o agreement_n and_o difference_n with_o and_o between_o the_o classical_a and_o congregationall_a divine_n be_v review_v their_o agreement_n find_v to_o be_v many_o their_o difference_n very_o few_o p._n 100_o whence_o a_o humble_a request_n be_v present_v to_o the_o congregationall_a divine_n speedy_o to_o join_v with_o the_o classical_a divine_n back_v with_o seven_o reason_n p._n 108_o to_o the_o reverend_a the_o minister_n of_o london_n the_o author_n of_o the_o vindication_n of_o the_o presbyterial_a government_n and_o ministry_n etc._n etc._n print_v 1650._o father_n and_o brethren_n the_o goodness_n of_o god_n manifest_v of_o old_a to_o england_n in_o cause_v the_o sun_n of_o his_o gospel_n to_o rise_v early_o upon_o this_o nation_n and_o to_o find_v such_o entertainment_n in_o the_o heart_n of_o the_o supreme_a power_n that_o it_o be_v the_o first_o nation_n that_o ever_o receive_v the_o gospel_n with_o the_o countenance_n of_o public_a authority_n have_v the_o first_o christian_a king_n that_o ever_o be_v be_v know_v to_o the_o whole_a christian_a world_n his_o goodness_n in_o these_o latter_a day_n since_o he_o take_v from_o our_o neck_n the_o anti-christian_n yoke_n have_v be_v also_o wonderful_a honour_v the_o minister_n of_o his_o gospel_n with_o such_o holiness_n learning_n ministerial_a ability_n and_o success_n in_o their_o labour_n in_o convert_v many_o and_o set_v up_o the_o power_n of_o godliness_n in_o this_o nation_n that_o he_o have_v not_o honour_v any_o nation_n more_o nay_o without_o pride_n it_o may_v be_v speak_v his_o free_a grace_n have_v not_o honour_v any_o nation_n so_o much_o in_o these_o respect_n as_o this_o english_a nation_n but_o now_o in_o our_o day_n the_o ministry_n which_o god_n have_v thus_o honour_v be_v as_o much_o dishonour_v and_o that_o by_o such_o who_o can_v but_o acknowledge_v their_o own_o mouth_n have_v speak_v it_o that_o what_o spiritual_a good_a they_o have_v receive_v it_o be_v wrought_v by_o the_o ministry_n and_o now_o we_o find_v scorn_v deride_v separate_v from_o the_o ministry_n and_o many_o not_o so_o much_o as_o step_v over_o their_o threshold_n to_o hear_v they_o who_o be_v the_o first_o instrument_n of_o their_o good_a if_o they_o have_v any_o as_o some_o we_o hope_v have_v and_o yet_o the_o minister_n be_v the_o same_o they_o be_v before_o yea_o some_o repent_v that_o ever_o they_o bestow_v so_o much_o pain_n and_o time_n to_o follow_v the_o minister_n as_o one_o that_o live_v but_o four_o or_o five_o mile_n from_o dedham_n have_v say_v he_o repent_v that_o he_o follow_v that_o eminent_a servant_n of_o god_n mr._n rogers_n so_o much_o to_o hear_v his_o preach_n while_o i_o observe_v these_o thing_n and_o consider_v into_o what_o a_o sad_a condition_n we_o be_v fall_v and_o read_v over_o your_o vindication_n in_o which_o i_o see_v a_o holy_a meek_a and_o true_a christian_a spirit_n breathe_v call_v upon_o the_o congregationall_a man_n to_o join_v with_o you_o certain_o i_o think_v that_o book_n deserve_v a_o courteous_a christian_a answer_n from_o the_o able_a of_o our_o congregationall_a man_n what_o they_o have_v do_v towards_o it_o i_o know_v not_o be_v little_o acquaint_v with_o affair_n abroad_o be_v lock_v up_o in_o much_o sadness_n of_o spirit_n at_o home_n but_o i_o think_v with_o myself_o that_o be_v i_o be_v number_v among_o the_o independent_o though_o i_o be_o the_o weak_a and_o most_o worthy_a the_o holy_a lord_n shall_v turn_v i_o out_o of_o his_o holy_a work_n lay_v other_o thing_n together_o which_o i_o have_v mention_v in_o the_o epistle_n to_o the_o reader_n i_o resolve_v to_o improve_v the_o little_a talon_n the_o lord_n have_v give_v i_o in_o examine_v the_o ground_n of_o these_o practice_n and_o to_o stand_v up_o in_o the_o defence_n of_o such_o minister_n who_o i_o see_v be_v dear_a to_o christ_n 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hear_v of_o divers_a and_o what_o i_o know_v by_o some_o church_n here_o
and_o he_o be_v the_o new_a creature_n one_o of_o mrs._n hutchisons_n follower_n on_o a_o lord_n day_n stand_v up_o in_o the_o congregation_n and_o will_v defend_v it_o against_o the_o learned_a and_o reverend_a teacher_n and_o tell_v he_o the_o text_n be_v read_v so_o in_o the_o original_n if_o any_o man_n be_v in_o christ_n the_o new_a creature_n 2_o cor._n â—_o 17_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d what_o can_v these_o man_n say_v to_o this_o that_o know_v not_o the_o original_a nor_o grammar_n both_o which_o a_o man_n must_v know_v to_o answer_v this_o so_o if_o another_o shall_v defend_v a_o heresy_n and_o tell_v you_o the_o text_n be_v so_o in_o the_o hebrew_n for_o the_o jesuit_n subtle_a and_o crabbed_a disputation_n we_o must_v not_o mention_v they_o these_o man_n be_v doubtless_o sufficient_a not_o but_o that_o i_o can_v allow_v a_o solid_a humble_a experience_a orthodox_n and_o well-gifted_n christian_n call_v regular_o and_o set_v apart_o to_o the_o work_n of_o the_o ministry_n with_o the_o neighbourhood_n of_o some_o learned_a able_a divine_a to_o have_v his_o recourse_n to_o i_o say_v i_o can_v allow_v such_o a_o one_o to_o preach_v in_o dark_a corner_n of_o the_o land_n but_o when_o man_n will_v cry_v out_o of_o other_o minister_n for_o want_n of_o orderly_a call_n separate_z from_o they_o and_o thus_o carry_v themselves_o that_o the_o bone_n of_o their_o ambition_n stick_v out_o and_o then_o through_o unfoundnesse_n in_o opinion_n though_o no_o way_n able_a though_o not_o regular_o call_v yet_o they_o will_v get_v into_o live_n and_o pulpit_n this_o be_v abominable_a so_o much_o for_o election_n that_o part_n of_o their_o call_n will_v hold_v as_o for_o the_o other_o requisite_a ordination_n to_o prove_v our_o minister_n have_v that_o also_o for_o the_o substance_n of_o it_o here_o will_v lie_v the_o pinch_n of_o the_o controversy_n therefore_o i_o reserve_v it_o for_o another_o place_n four_o for_o the_o final_a cause_n here_o also_o the_o minister_n will_v appear_v to_o be_v true_a minister_n for_o conversion_n and_o edification_n the_o lord_n have_v honour_v the_o english_a ministry_n with_o as_o much_o success_n as_o any_o nation_n under_o heaven_n the_o lord_n have_v set_v seal_n to_o hundred_o of_o our_o minister_n in_o give_v they_o some_o soul_n in_o conversion_n and_o build_v up_o many_o according_a as_o be_v their_o several_a gift_n and_o for_o a_o proof_n of_o it_o let_v i_o appeal_v to_o yourselves_o who_o have_v thus_o separate_v from_o they_o can_v you_o say_v that_o you_o have_v find_v god_n in_o their_o ministry_n i_o be_o sure_a your_o own_o word_n must_v witness_v against_o divers_a of_o you_o if_o you_o deny_v it_o for_o you_o have_v acknowledge_v by_o they_o you_o be_v first_o awaken_v and_o bring_v home_o now_o i_o beseech_v you_o consider_v what_o you_o do_v you_o who_o be_v the_o sober_a and_o retain_v the_o savour_n of_o god_n in_o your_o heart_n if_o christ_n shall_v say_v to_o you_o why_o do_v you_o deny_v these_o to_o be_v true_a minister_n i_o own_o they_o to_o be_v such_o i_o have_v qualify_v they_o with_o ministerial_a and_o personal_a gift_n i_o have_v seal_v to_o their_o ministry_n by_o make_v they_o my_o instrument_n to_o bring_v home_o many_o and_o to_o build_v up_o those_o who_o be_v bring_v home_o i_o have_v often_o humble_v awe_a cheer_v refresh_v the_o heart_n of_o my_o people_n by_o they_o your_o own_o self_n who_o be_v i_o be_v witness_n of_o it_o i_o find_v you_o out_o by_o they_o etc._n etc._n they_o have_v their_o call_n from_o the_o people_n and_o though_o there_o be_v some_o circumstantial_a defect_n in_o their_o set_n apart_o to_o the_o work_n yet_o those_o they_o free_o acknowledge_v and_o i_o do_v as_o free_o pardon_v will_v not_o my_o presence_n with_o they_o make_v up_o that_o defect_n in_o your_o heart_n still_o to_o own_v they_o and_o reverence_v they_o as_o my_o minister_n since_o i_o do_v now_o i_o say_v what_o will_v you_o answer_v to_o the_o lord_n jesus_n i_o doubt_v not_o though_o many_o have_v their_o infirmity_n as_o who_o have_v not_o many_o infirmity_n yet_o christ_n do_v own_v they_o for_o his_o minister_n and_o paul_n or_o the_o apostle_n if_o they_o now_o be_v alive_a will_v not_o deny_v it_o object_n if_o you_o say_v that_o indeed_o god_n do_v go_v along_o with_o the_o old_a minister_n but_o not_o with_o these_o answ_n but_o the_o same_o argument_n you_o give_v against_o these_o minister_n from_o their_o ordination_n do_v make_v as_o much_o against_o these_o old_a minister_n as_o these_o now_o live_v they_o be_v no_o true_a minister_n neither_o by_o your_o opinion_n 2._o we_o can_v say_v that_o even_o with_o the_o labour_n of_o these_o minister_n do_v christ_n go_v along_o though_o not_o so_o much_o as_o he_o do_v before_o when_o the_o gospel_n come_v first_o into_o place_n for_o edification_n we_o find_v it_o which_o be_v one_o end_n in_o that_o ephes_n 4.12_o and_o i_o pray_v take_v heed_n that_o your_o scorn_v of_o they_o be_v no_o occasion_n to_o hinder_v their_o work_n for_o you_o must_v answer_v for_o it_o what_o ever_o the_o decree_n of_o god_n be_v so_o much_o for_o my_o first_o argument_n 2._o i_o will_v use_v a_o second_o argument_n to_o prove_v we_o have_v true_a minister_n etc._n etc._n and_o here_o i_o will_v propound_v one_o question_n to_o these_o man_n who_o thus_o deny_v the_o ministry_n it_o be_v this_o be_v there_o ever_o any_o true_a minister_n and_o church_n let_v i_o put_v in_o they_o also_o since_o the_o apostle_n day_n i_o hope_v you_o will_v say_v yes_o but_o i_o pray_v how_o long_o be_v there_o such_o minister_n and_o church_n in_o which_o century_n do_v there_o cease_v to_o be_v true_a minister_n and_o true_a visible_a church_n i_o suppose_v you_o will_v say_v when_o antichrist_n begin_v here_o now_o you_o will_v do_v we_o a_o good_a turn_n if_o you_o can_v make_v it_o out_o clear_a to_o we_o when_o that_o be_v that_o so_o we_o may_v know_v how_o long_o our_o misery_n shall_v last_v if_o so_o then_o to_o be_v sure_a for_o the_o first_o three_o hundred_o year_n after_o christ_n which_o be_v time_n of_o persecution_n yea_o and_o divers_a year_n after_o you_o must_v grant_v there_o be_v true_a minister_n let_v we_o then_o compare_v our_o minister_n and_o church_n with_o they_o for_o our_o minister_n many_o be_v godly_a as_o well_o as_o those_o all_o the_o minister_n than_o be_v not_o true_o gracious_a i_o believe_v nay_o by_o story_n we_o can_v learn_v they_o be_v not_o as_o for_o ministerial_a gift_n those_o who_o have_v skill_n to_o compare_v the_o work_n and_o sermon_n of_o our_o minister_n now_o with_o their_o work_n and_o homily_n shall_v find_v that_o the_o presbyterial_a minister_n be_v not_o behind_o they_o but_o in_o open_v the_o doctrine_n of_o freegrace_n christ_n promise_n which_o be_v the_o glory_n of_o the_o gospel_n as_o also_o for_o discover_v of_o hypocrisy_n without_o any_o dishonour_n to_o those_o ancient_n i_o may_v say_v they_o do_v excel_v they_o for_o the_o church_n it_o be_v true_a we_o know_v not_o what_o we_o shall_v do_v if_o the_o lord_n shall_v call_v we_o to_o suffering_n but_o this_o we_o know_v the_o same_o power_n which_o carry_v they_o through_o be_v able_a to_o carry_v we_o through_o for_o loss_n of_o estate_n leave_v of_o their_o native_a country_n etc._n etc._n i_o be_o sure_a new_a england_n have_v go_v very_o far_o with_o they_o for_o that_o kind_n of_o suffer_v and_o so_o have_v some_o here_o also_o yea_o and_o for_o not_o submit_v to_o superstitious_a ceremony_n and_o invention_n of_o man_n in_o the_o worship_n of_o god_n which_o they_o even_o in_o those_o time_n make_v nothing_o of_o how_o many_o vain_a rite_n and_o ceremony_n be_v then_o use_v in_o baptism_n bap._n baptism_n by_o tertul._n cyp._n ep._n 59_o the_o kiss_n of_o the_o child_n by_o august_n time_n there_o be_v many_o ceremony_n add_v symb._n ad_fw-la catech._n l._n 4._o c._n 1._o lib._n de_fw-fr coro_n mil._n ep._n 70.72_o tertul._n de_fw-fr bap._n which_o our_o minister_n do_v never_o own_o but_o be_v silence_v etc._n etc._n for_o less_o matter_n yet_o these_o be_v the_o primitive_a church_n beside_o those_o ceremony_n in_o baptism_n there_o be_v other_o strange_a thing_n use_v which_o our_o divine_n never_o own_v i_o say_v in_o those_o primitive_a church_n as_o the_o anoint_v of_o the_o baptize_v as_o cyprian_a it_o be_v necessary_a that_o the_o baptize_v person_n be_v anoint_v etc._n etc._n yea_o and_o put_v much_o in_o it_o as_o one_o may_v see_v who_o read_v those_o epistle_n tertullian_n also_o make_v mention_n of_o this_o hence_o fabianus_n order_v that_o this_o oil_n shall_v be_v prepare_v every_o year_n and_o reprehend_v those_o who_o keep_v it_o two_o
or_o three_o year_n together_o in_o secunda_fw-la epist_n and_o episc_n orient_a hence_o also_o care_n be_v take_v afterward_o that_o none_o but_o bishop_n shall_v make_v this_o the_o presbyter_n must_v not_o dare_v to_o do_v it_o sylvester_n in_o council_n rom._n also_o holy_a vesture_n for_o the_o minister_n to_o be_v use_v only_o in_o the_o church_n many_o of_o we_o never_o own_v these_o hil._n epist_n steph_n ad_fw-la hil._n all_o have_v cast_v they_o away_o also_o in_o the_o lord_n supper_n the_o mix_n of_o water_n with_o the_o wine_n which_o how_o ever_o some_o say_v it_o be_v because_o of_o the_o hot_a country_n yet_o alexander_n who_o they_o say_v be_v the_o first_o that_o mix_v water_n with_o wine_n 2._o epist_n ad_fw-la omnes_fw-la ortho._n apol._n 2._o do_v not_o give_v that_o reason_n but_o because_o water_v and_o blood_n come_v out_o of_o christ_n side_n in_o justin_n martyr_n time_n it_o seem_v this_o be_v their_o manner_n also_o but_o this_o be_v not_o the_o institution_n also_o we_o find_v several_a church-officer_n among_o they_o as_o appear_v by_o gaius_n bishop_n of_o rome_n who_o order_v that_o all_o the_o order_n in_o the_o church_n must_v ascend_v from_o the_o doorkeeper_n to_o the_o bishop_n ostiarius_n lector_fw-la exorcista_fw-la acolythus_n subdiaconus_fw-la diaconus_fw-la presbyter_n episcopus_fw-la the_o ordination_n of_o these_o officer_n with_o their_o ceremony_n be_v after_o set_v down_o in_o the_o four_o council_n of_o carthage_n if_o the_o decretal_n of_o gaius_n be_v of_o any_o authority_n all_o these_o be_v in_o primitive_a church_n before_o constantine_n come_v to_o the_o empire_n more_o thing_n i_o may_v add_v but_o i_o forbear_v and_o though_o there_o be_v many_o glorious_a martyr_n yet_o all_o their_o church-member_n be_v not_o such_o many_o do_v yield_v to_o the_o heathenish_a idolatry_n when_o persecution_n begin_v yea_o and_o there_o be_v foul_a sin_n among_o they_o church_n as_o adultery_n whoredom_n yea_o even_o among_o those_o who_o have_v be_v confessor_n as_o cyprian_n affirm_v ingemiscimus_fw-la say_v he_o to_o see_v it_o drunkenness_n swear_v and_o what_o not_o as_o any_o one_o may_v well_o gather_v who_o be_v but_o a_o little_a verse_v in_o antiquity_n eccles_n de_fw-fr unita_fw-la eccles_n and_o by_o read_v over_o the_o canon_n make_v in_o their_o counsel_n we_o may_v learn_v what_o they_o be_v trouble_v with_o as_o for_o the_o minister_n they_o also_o be_v ordain_v by_o bishop_n though_o they_o be_v not_o such_o lordly_a one_o as_o we_o be_v with_o presbyter_n join_v with_o they_o this_o no_o man_n can_v deny_v that_o know_v any_o thing_n of_o those_o time_n whence_o then_o i_o be_o bold_a to_o affirm_v that_o if_o there_o be_v true_a minister_n and_o true_a visible_a church_n in_o those_o time_n even_o while_o they_o be_v under_o persecute_v heathenish_a emperor_n than_o there_o be_v true_a minister_n and_o true_a visible_a church_n now_o in_o england_n and_o if_o there_o be_v none_o now_o neither_o be_v there_o any_o in_o those_o time_n but_o i_o think_v no_o man_n be_v so_o impudent_a to_o deny_v that_o there_o be_v true_a minister_n and_o church_n in_o those_o time_n i_o plead_v now_o for_o many_o presbyterial_a minister_n and_o their_o congregation_n so_o i_o have_v do_v with_o my_o second_o argument_n which_o if_o i_o shall_v draw_v into_o form_n it_o run_v thus_o if_o there_o be_v true_a minister_n and_o true_a visible_a church_n in_o the_o first_o three_o hundred_o year_n after_o christ_n then_o there_o be_v true_a minister_n and_o visible_a church_n now_o in_o england_n but_o the_o antecedent_n be_v true_a ergo_fw-la the_o consequent_a be_v true_a some_o we_o have_v that_o dote_v they_o tell_v we_o they_o expect_v man_n to_o be_v send_v from_o god_n and_o endue_v with_o extraordinary_a gift_n as_o be_v the_o apostle_n &c_n &c_n and_o these_o be_v the_o man_n who_o shall_v set_v up_o church_n and_o reform_v we_o good_a lord_n whither_o will_v our_o vile_a heart_n carry_v we_o if_o thou_o do_v leave_v they_o these_o person_n be_v not_o worth_a the_o answer_n but_o yet_o let_v i_o say_v a_o little_a to_o they_o and_o so_o pass_v on_o to_o the_o chief_a thing_n i_o intend_v for_o the_o gift_n of_o tongue_n i_o need_v not_o speak_v what_o be_v necessary_a god_n have_v give_v to_o most_o and_o many_o excel_v in_o that_o gift_n for_o miracle_n i_o they_o be_v give_v but_o for_o that_o time_n to_o help_v on_o the_o work_n of_o the_o ministry_n as_o sauce_n do_v meat_n but_o now_o if_o god_n do_v that_o by_o the_o ministry_n of_o his_o servant_n without_o miracle_n which_o he_o do_v then_o by_o the_o ministry_n accompany_v with_o miracle_n viz._n convert_v edify_v formalize_v etc._n etc._n this_o do_v but_o more_o confirm_v our_o ministry_n and_o prove_v that_o god_n own_v these_o despise_a minister_n the_o plain_a word_n preach_v have_v make_v as_o good_a christian_n as_o preach_v and_o miracle_n 2_o if_o any_o body_n have_v need_n of_o the_o gift_n of_o miracle_n than_o master_n eliot_n in_o new_a england_n have_v who_o now_o preach_v to_o the_o indian_n and_o other_o with_o he_o but_o god_n carry_v on_o his_o work_n among_o the_o indian_n without_o miracle_n 3_o do_v not_o you_o yourselves_o believe_v the_o scripture_n to_o be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n if_o so_o what_o need_v have_v you_o of_o such_o kind_n of_o person_n so_o gift_v the_o great_a miracle_n which_o i_o desire_v to_o confirm_v i_o in_o the_o truth_n of_o the_o scripture_n be_v to_o find_v the_o power_n of_o christ_n his_o death_n and_o resurrection_n in_o my_o heart_n without_o which_o i_o care_v not_o for_o miracle_n but_o enough_o for_o these_o there_o be_v other_o who_o have_v be_v member_n of_o a_o independent_a church_n where_o division_n have_v fall_v out_o and_o so_o have_v break_v in_o piece_n they_o have_v say_v that_o minister_n be_v not_o fit_v with_o a_o spirit_n of_o government_n to_o keep_v church_n in_o order_n and_o therefore_o these_o be_v not_o time_n as_o yet_o for_o such_o reformation_n i_o answer_v 1_o the_o more_o shame_n for_o your_o church-member_n who_o be_v of_o such_o proud_a and_o turbulent_a spirit_n that_o godly_a and_o able_a minister_n be_v not_o able_a enough_o to_o govern_v they_o those_o who_o come_v into_o church_n communion_n with_o the_o awe_n of_o god_n upon_o their_o heart_n we_o can_v govern_v they_o some_o such_o spirit_n we_o find_v among_o the_o independent_o but_o if_o we_o can_v see_v more_o it_o will_v be_v better_o 2_o i_o wonder_v not_o at_o your_o division_n when_o i_o see_v what_o principle_n some_o godly_a congregationall_a man_n have_v go_v by_o for_o the_o order_n of_o their_o church_n government_n 3_o your_o argument_n be_v as_o strong_a against_o the_o apostle_n for_o there_o be_v heresy_n and_o schism_n in_o their_o day_n but_o i_o leave_v these_o and_o return_v to_o that_o from_o whence_o i_o have_v make_v a_o digression_n have_v then_o prove_v there_o be_v true_a minister_n and_o church_n in_o england_n let_v we_o examine_v the_o ground_n why_o these_o man_n separate_v from_o these_o minister_n and_o church_n i_o conceive_v their_o ground_n may_v be_v refer_v to_o one_o of_o these_o head_n either_o to_o the_o minister_n either_o to_o or_o worship_n either_o to_o or_o the_o congregation_n either_o to_o or_o the_o place_n of_o meeting_n if_o there_o be_v any_o thing_n else_o that_o can_v so_o well_o be_v reduce_v to_o one_o of_o these_o yet_o i_o be_o sure_a i_o shall_v meet_v with_o it_o before_o i_o have_v do_v for_o the_o minister_n they_o be_v indeed_o make_v the_o dung_n of_o england_n who_o be_v more_o scorn_v than_o they_o especial_o the_o presbyterial_a man_n be_v they_o never_o so_o holy_a or_o learned_a whether_o there_o be_v just_a cause_n in_o respect_n of_o man_n i_o leave_v it_o to_o god_n to_o judge_v i_o be_o sure_a when_o minister_n be_v in_o honour_n we_o find_v the_o word_n have_v good_a effect_n but_o since_o they_o come_v to_o be_v thus_o scorn_v little_a good_a have_v be_v do_v i_o deny_v not_o but_o god_n may_v have_v a_o just_a quarrel_n against_o we_o and_o give_v i_o leave_v without_o offence_n to_o propound_v the_o reason_n why_o 1_o the_o first_o i_o have_v rather_o conceal_v because_o i_o shall_v seem_v to_o spy_v out_o a_o mote_n in_o my_o father_n and_o brethren_n eye_n when_o i_o have_v a_o beam_n in_o my_o own_o but_o therefore_o i_o rather_o propound_v it_o as_o i_o hear_v it_o from_o a_o reverend_n and_o judicious_a divine_a a_o man_n of_o a_o gracious_a and_o moderate_a spirit_n mr._n nathaniel_n rogers_n in_o new_a england_n i_o be_v talk_v with_o he_o there_o when_o the_o news_n come_v of_o the_o covenant_n that_o england_n and_o scotland_n enter_v into_o the_o thing_n please_v he_o and_o all_o our_o
they_o do_v look_v upon_o abundance_n of_o our_o presbyterial_a minister_n as_o true_a minister_n of_o christ_n 2_o i_o know_v that_o they_o will_v disapprove_v of_o the_o practice_n of_o some_o who_o have_v separate_v from_o the_o minister_n who_o they_o have_v before_o choose_v and_o the_o godly_a congregation_n upon_o this_o notion_n as_o i_o know_v some_o have_v do_v deceive_v i_o do_v honour_n the_o grace_n of_o divers_a of_o those_o christian_n who_o separate_v but_o satan_n get_v into_o a_o angel_n of_o light_n and_o deceive_v especial_o from_o that_o famous_a congregation_n of_o dedham_n of_o which_o i_o dare_v say_v that_o for_o a_o parochial_a congregation_n there_o be_v not_o the_o like_a number_n of_o real_a and_o visible_a saint_n in_o any_o congregation_n in_o england_n i_o be_o sure_a there_o be_v not_o before_o this_o separation_n be_v make_v and_o for_o the_o minister_n i_o speak_v not_o of_o they_o they_o be_v man_n well_o know_v i_o wish_v i_o have_v nothing_o more_o to_o trouble_v i_o then_o to_o live_v under_o that_o ministry_n in_o that_o congregation_n i_o hope_v whereas_o now_o i_o be_o a_o sad_a man_n i_o shall_v be_v as_o cheerful_a as_o any_o man_n in_o england_n mr._n burrough_n say_v he_o can_v communicate_v in_o that_o congregation_n than_o it_o seem_v he_o do_v not_o question_v whether_o there_o be_v any_o true_a minister_n object_n but_o if_o you_o say_v our_o new_a england_n minister_n do_v renounce_v their_o ordination_n which_o they_o have_v here_o for_o they_o be_v ordain_v again_o answ_n 70_o see_v answ_n to_o 32._o q._n 70_o it_o be_v true_a they_o be_v ordain_v again_o but_o i_o never_o hear_v it_o be_v upon_o that_o ground_n for_o let_v a_o minister_n be_v ordain_v there_o in_o one_o church_n if_o there_o be_v cause_n of_o his_o removal_n and_o so_o be_v elect_v in_o another_o church_n they_o ordain_v he_o again_o three_o i_o can_v say_v this_o our_o new_a england_n minister_n have_v often_o desire_v and_o frequent_o admit_v to_o preach_v in_o their_o congregation_n that_o go_v from_o hence_o but_o be_v not_o ordain_v there_o but_o our_o minister_n of_o new_a england_n be_v here_o judge_v nothing_o worth_a but_o be_v as_o contemptible_a as_o any_o in_o the_o mouth_n of_o our_o separatist_n yet_o they_o be_v man_n of_o worth_n second_o i_o answer_v to_o what_o you_o say_v it_o come_v through_o and_o from_o the_o romish_a synagogue_n if_o your_o argument_n have_v any_o force_n you_o must_v cast_v it_o thus_o those_o minister_n which_o stand_v by_o a_o romish_a institution_n be_v no_o true_a minister_n of_o christ_n but_o the_o minister_n of_o england_n stand_v by_o a_o romish_a institution_n ergo_fw-la the_o minister_n of_o england_n be_v no_o true_a minister_n of_o christ_n the_o major_a you_o will_v grant_v and_o if_o we_o can_v prove_v the_o minor_a our_o minister_n shall_v utter_o renounce_v their_o ordination_n i_o dare_v undertake_v for_o they_o but_o the_o minor_a be_v very_o false_a they_o stand_v by_o no_o romish_a institution_n for_o ordination_n be_v none_o of_o their_o invention_n but_o institute_v by_o the_o lord_n jesus_n himself_o long_o before_o antichrist_n be_v but_o your_o argument_n run_v thus_o those_o minister_n which_o stand_v by_o a_o institution_n of_o christ_n descend_v to_o they_o from_o the_o apostle_n through_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n they_o be_v no_o true_a minister_n of_o christ_n but_o the_o minister_n of_o england_n stand_v by_o a_o institution_n of_o christ_n descend_v to_o they_o from_o the_o apostle_n through_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n ergo_fw-la they_o be_v no_o true_a minister_n this_o be_v the_o true_a meaning_n of_o your_o argument_n but_o the_o major_n be_v very_o false_a shall_v the_o pass_n through_o rome_n null_n the_o institution_n of_o christ_n do_v not_o the_o scripture_n sacrament_n and_o what_o ever_o ordinance_n we_o now_o have_v descend_v to_o we_o from_o the_o apostle_n through_o rome_n shall_v we_o therefore_o cast_v they_o away_o that_o argument_n run_v as_o strong_a against_o our_o baptism_n and_o any_o other_o ordinance_n with_o which_o though_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n mingle_v their_o invention_n do_v they_o therefore_o null_a the_o ordinance_n the_o vessel_n that_o be_v once_o dedicate_v to_o god_n by_o his_o own_o institution_n though_o they_o be_v put_v into_o the_o house_n of_o nebuchadnezar_n god_n and_o those_o that_o be_v fit_a very_o like_v use_v by_o belshazzar_n to_o drink_v wine_n in_o when_o he_o praise_v the_o god_n etc._n etc._n they_o be_v not_o so_o much_o as_o new_a cast_v again_o but_o carry_v to_o jerusalem_n fin_n ezra_n 1.7_o ad_fw-la fin_n i_o pray_v what_o do_v you_o think_v of_o the_o judgement_n of_o mr._n johnson_n a_o man_n great_a i_o be_o sure_a among_o the_o brethren_n of_o the_o separation_n though_o the_o separatist_n in_o our_o day_n make_v a_o tush_o at_o the_o judgement_n of_o any_o man_n yea_o although_o he_o be_v of_o the_o separation_n but_o yet_o consider_v the_o reason_n which_o sway_v he_o and_o then_o judge_v the_o case_n be_v this_o one_o that_o be_v a_o minister_n in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v after_o choose_v teacher_n to_o a_o separate_a congregation_n without_o any_o new_a impose_v of_o hand_n this_o he_o undertake_v to_o justify_v thus_o 1_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v of_o god_n and_o not_o a_o invention_n of_o man_n it_o be_v not_o a_o postor_n threshold_n first_o bring_v by_o antichrist_n into_o the_o temple_n of_o god_n but_o have_v therein_o afore_o antichrist_n sit_v there_o 2._o baptism_n and_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v join_v together_o among_o the_o principle_n of_o the_o foundation_n speak_v of_o heb._n 6.2_o therefore_o it_o ought_v to_o be_v regard_v 3._o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n still_o give_v to_o the_o office_n of_o the_o ministry_n and_o in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o lord_n as_o they_o do_v also_o still_o administer_v baptism_n 4._o we_o find_v not_o either_o precept_n example_n or_o ground_n in_o the_o scripture_n bind_v we_o to_o the_o repetition_n of_o it_o 5._o the_o priest_n and_o levite_n in_o israel_n become_v unclean_a when_o afterward_o they_o be_v cleanse_v retain_v still_o their_o place_n of_o be_v priest_n and_o levite_n and_o the_o child_n of_o the_o priest_n and_o levite_n succeed_v after_o they_o â—id_v administer_v without_o a_o new_a anoint_v or_o new_a imposition_n of_o hand_n etc._n etc._n thus_o then_o as_o mr._n johnson_n and_o mr._n ainsworth_n oppose_v rebaptization_n because_o baptism_n be_v a_o ordinance_n of_o god_n which_o be_v have_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n before_o she_o fall_v into_o apostasy_n and_o have_v be_v there_o continue_v ever_o since_o the_o apostle_n time_n how_o ever_o co-mingled_n with_o many_o invention_n of_o their_o own_o so_o mr._n johnson_n defend_v the_o ordination_n of_o that_o minister_n which_o he_o have_v in_o england_n because_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n from_o the_o apostle_n time_n before_o her_o apostasy_n and_o be_v there_o continue_v to_o this_o day_n though_o mix_v with_o many_o pollution_n of_o their_o own_o i_o pray_v only_o note_v this_o that_o whereas_o i_o say_v they_o stand_v by_o their_o ordination_n i_o do_v not_o mean_v that_o only_o but_o also_o they_o have_v the_o election_n of_o the_o people_n of_o which_o i_o speak_v before_o and_o that_o the_o separatist_n can_v deny_v which_o yet_o they_o make_v the_o great_a matter_n in_o a_o minister_n call_v three_o i_o answer_v if_o this_o argument_n be_v of_o any_o force_n it_o will_v rather_o prevail_v against_o the_o first_o reformer_n as_o in_o other_o nation_n so_o against_o our_o first_o reformer_n in_o england_n who_o come_v new_o out_o of_o popery_n but_o what_o be_v this_o to_o we_o who_o have_v be_v above_o ninety_o year_n out_o of_o that_o bondage_n and_o have_v cast_v off_o their_o government_n worship_n and_o doctrine_n so_o far_o as_o antichristian_a for_o a_o long_a time_n but_o if_o our_o first_o reformer_n be_v able_a enough_o to_o maintain_v their_o call_n then_o much_o more_o our_o minister_n four_o but_o if_o you_o will_v throw_v away_o all_o that_o come_v through_o rome_n let_v we_o see_v what_o course_n you_o will_v take_v when_o you_o have_v deny_v all_o the_o ordinance_n that_o have_v be_v administer_v for_o these_o ninety_o year_n in_o england_n for_o if_o no_o ministry_n then_o certain_o no_o authoritative_a preach_n no_o sacrament_n and_o thus_o you_o have_v renounce_v yvor_o baptism_n which_o you_o have_v by_o these_o minister_n what_o method_n will_v you_o take_v in_o your_o reformation_n how_o will_v you_o come_v to_o be_v rebaptise_v you_o will_v tell_v i_o you_o will_v covenant_v together_o and_o then_o elect_v and_o ordain_v a_o minister_n and_o he_o shall_v baptize_v of_o this_o more_o afterward_o but_o
than_o i_o desire_v no_o more_o if_o they_o be_v so_o far_o minister_n as_o to_o administer_v baptism_n to_o you_o than_o they_o may_v well_o administer_v ordination_n to_o we_o renounce_v therefore_o the_o baptism_n you_o have_v by_o they_o so_o i_o be_o sure_a you_o can_v ordain_v and_o when_o you_o be_v regular_o re-baptised_n and_o can_v warrant_v your_o act_n and_o prove_v that_o you_o have_v the_o power_n to_o ordain_v than_o we_o will_v listen_v to_o you_o for_o my_o own_o ordination_n it_o be_v in_o the_o face_n of_o my_o people_n the_o day_n be_v spend_v in_o fast_v and_o prayer_n those_o who_o carry_v on_o the_o work_n be_v mr._n dan._n rogers_n mr._n martial_n mr._n ranew_o with_o other_o godly_a minister_n who_o join_v with_o they_o in_o the_o impose_v of_o hand_n the_o minister_n live_v about_o i_o i_o never_o see_v that_o ordinance_n carry_v on_o with_o more_o solemnity_n in_o my_o life_n the_o people_n show_v their_o election_n by_o suffrage_n hold_v up_o their_o hand_n all_o be_v do_v according_a to_o the_o pattern_n but_o yet_o i_o be_o a_o man_n as_o much_o scorn_v as_o other_o man_n who_o be_v ordain_v by_o bishop_n i_o can_v submit_v to_o god_n in_o that_o scorn_n that_o these_o cast_n upon_o i_o for_o i_o deserve_v it_o at_o his_o hand_n only_a there_o be_v a_o foul_a error_n commit_v at_o my_o ordination_n and_o it_o be_v tell_v up_o and_o down_o by_o some_o of_o this_o kind_n against_o who_o i_o write_v and_o i_o pray_v what_o be_v it_o this_o the_o minister_n impose_v hand_n in_o my_o ordination_n this_o have_v be_v talk_v of_o as_o a_o strange_a thing_n but_o let_v i_o answer_v for_o the_o minister_n it_o be_v no_o error_n much_o less_o such_o a_o great_a one_o as_o you_o make_v it_o 1_o if_o private_a man_n carpenter_n and_o tailor_n may_v impose_v hand_n why_o may_v not_o minister_n but_o the_o former_a have_v do_v it_o ergo._n 2_o all_o the_o ordination_n that_o ever_o i_o see_v in_o new_a england_n be_v perform_v with_o imposition_n of_o hand_n i_o have_v see_v deacon_n ordain_v thus_o 3_o if_o you_o be_v wise_a than_o the_o elder_n in_o new_a england_n 74._o answ_n to_o the_o 32._o que_fw-la p._n 67._o survey_v of_o church_n dise_z p._n 2._o p._n 74._o and_o master_n hooker_n then_o overthrow_v they_o for_o they_o conceive_v it_o near_o to_o the_o institution_n 4_o if_o you_o observe_v the_o example_n in_o the_o new_a testament_n which_o be_v our_o guide_n in_o church_n affair_n we_o shall_v find_v ordination_n have_v be_v thus_o perform_v as_o act_n 6.6_o act._n 13.3_o 1_o tim._n 4.14_o 1_o tim._n 5.22_o heb._n 6.2_o lay_v on_o of_o hand_n which_o place_n by_o classical_a man_n congregationall_a man_n and_o separatist_n be_v interpret_v of_o ordination_n i_o do_v not_o here_o bring_v in_o the_o practice_n of_o church_n in_o former_a time_n because_o i_o intend_v not_o to_o handle_v the_o controversy_n whether_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v necessary_o require_v in_o ordination_n but_o bring_v you_o in_o as_o many_o example_n from_o scripture_n where_o there_o be_v minister_n ordain_v without_o imposition_n of_o hand_n as_o also_o the_o practice_n of_o other_o true_a church_n orthodox_n and_o sound_n who_o do_v ordain_v without_o etc._n etc._n or_o else_o be_v ashamed_a of_o your_o ignorance_n and_o charge_v not_o those_o man_n with_o error_n where_o none_o be_v but_o a_o true_a follow_v the_o pattern_n the_o substance_n and_o essence_n then_o of_o ordination_n be_v this_o that_o person_n qualify_v ministerial_o be_v set_v apart_o or_o separate_v for_o the_o work_n of_o the_o ministry_n by_o person_n in_o office_n ordinary_o it_o must_v be_v thus_o what_o may_v be_v do_v extraordinary_o when_o no_o officer_n can_v be_v have_v be_v another_o case_n the_o minister_n in_o england_n have_v that_o ordinance_n for_o the_o substance_n and_o they_o have_v the_o election_n and_o consent_n of_o the_o people_n it_o be_v hardly_o to_o be_v suppose_v that_o every_o individual_a person_n in_o a_o parish_n will_v consent_v to_o every_o godly_a minister_n but_o consent_v there_o be_v hence_o these_o two_o concur_v to_o the_o call_v which_o be_v the_o form_n of_o a_o minister_n many_o presbyterial_a minister_n be_v true_a minister_n i_o dare_v say_v more_o but_o i_o be_o sure_a now_o i_o save_v myself_o but_o i_o have_v not_o do_v with_o ordination_n yet_o i_o shall_v meet_v with_o it_o once_o again_o afterward_o let_v we_o now_o come_v and_o try_v the_o second_o ground_n for_o separation_n scil_n the_o worship_n of_o god_n the_o fault_n here_o must_v be_v reduce_v to_o one_o of_o these_o three_o head_n either_o 1_o because_o they_o can_v enjoy_v all_o the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n in_o these_o church_n or_o 2_o because_o the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n be_v mix_v with_o humane_a invention_n that_o they_o can_v partake_v of_o they_o without_o sin_n or_o 3_o because_o here_o be_v other_o ordinance_n set_v up_o in_o the_o church_n then_o ever_o christ_n do_v institute_v i_o can_v conceive_v any_o more_o for_o the_o first_o suppose_v it_o be_v so_o that_o there_o be_v a_o defect_n of_o some_o ordinance_n be_v that_o a_o sufficient_a ground_n for_o separation_n mr._n hooker_n say_v no._n if_o a_o father_n of_o a_o family_n want_v a_o rod_n in_o his_o house_n discip_n the_o preface_n to_o survey_v of_o church_n discip_n be_v it_o ergo_fw-la no_o family_n there_o may_v be_v some_o disorder_n in_o the_o house_n for_o want_v of_o good_a government_n yet_o a_o family_n divers_a divine_n of_o great_a note_n conceive_v by_o that_o text_n nehem._n 8.17_o 18._o that_o the_o church_n of_o the_o jew_n do_v omit_v the_o celebration_n of_o the_o feast_n of_o tabernacle_n almost_o the_o space_n of_o a_o thousand_o year_n the_o ark_n be_v absent_a from_o the_o tabernacle_n from_o the_o time_n of_o eli_n to_o the_o time_n of_o david_n 1_o sam._n 4.11_o compare_v with_o 2_o sam._n 6_o 17._o and_o it_o be_v a_o great_a fault_n the_o scribe_n reject_v the_o baptism_n of_o john_n but_o where_o do_v you_o find_v any_o separation_n all_o this_o while_n that_o the_o godly_a shall_v not_o join_v with_o that_o church_n and_o partake_v in_o what_o ordinance_n they_o have_v but_o this_o objection_n have_v no_o place_n in_o these_o church_n for_o prayer_n preach_v administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n yea_o discipline_n they_o have_v in_o the_o episcopal_a day_n they_o do_v suspend_v from_o the_o lord_n supper_n and_o the_o bishop_n give_v the_o minister_n power_n but_o suspension_n be_v the_o lesser_a excommunication_n and_o now_o to_o be_v sure_a there_o be_v none_o want_v at_o least_o shall_v not_o be_v if_o the_o minister_n be_v not_o hinder_v in_o set_v up_o all_o the_o ordinance_n obj._n no_o say_v you_o the_o classical_a church_n have_v no_o explicit_a covenant_n for_o the_o form_n of_o they_o they_o will_v not_o admit_v it_o into_o their_o church_n therefore_o we_o separate_v i_o shall_v meet_v with_o this_o in_o another_o place_n only_o for_o the_o present_a disprove_v what_o mr._n hooker_n have_v say_v and_o the_o former_a example_n i_o have_v give_v you_o but_o yet_o you_o will_v have_v a_o hard_a piece_n of_o work_n to_o prove_v this_o to_o be_v a_o sufficient_a ground_n for_o your_o separation_n as_o afterward_o i_o hope_v i_o shall_v make_v good_a for_o the_o second_o humane_a mixture_n in_o ordinance_n this_o indeed_o be_v the_o ground_n of_o the_o old_a separatist_n yet_o in_o those_o day_n many_o holy_a and_o learned_a divine_n write_v against_o the_o separation_n but_o in_o these_o day_n that_o stumble_a block_n be_v remove_v and_o this_o let_v i_o say_v that_o if_o you_o read_v over_o all_o the_o church-story_n since_o there_o be_v a_o church_n upon_o the_o earth_n there_o can_v be_v find_v any_o example_n of_o such_o separatist_n as_o be_v now_o among_o we_o the_o old_a donatist_n have_v their_o minister_n yea_o bishop_n as_o well_o as_o presbyter_n the_o separate_a church_n of_o late_a day_n have_v their_o minister_n and_o how_o strict_o do_v they_o maintain_v and_o practice_v all_o those_o ordinance_n which_o we_o laugh_v at_o as_o sing_v of_o psalm_n infant-baptism_n observation_n of_o the_o sabbath_n and_o such_o opinion_n as_o those_o learned_a and_o godly_a man_n mr._n ainsworth_n robinson_n johnson_n do_v abhor_v be_v swallow_v down_o among_o we_o so_o that_o these_o man_n can_v ground_v their_o practice_n from_o any_o example_n heretofore_o and_o as_o for_o the_o scripture_n if_o they_o can_v find_v any_o ground_n there_o i_o must_v confess_v i_o be_o altogether_o ignorant_a in_o the_o scripture_n suppose_v there_o shall_v be_v some_o human_a mixture_n though_o for_o my_o part_n i_o know_v of_o none_o be_v all_o the_o ordinance_n so_o pollute_v preach_v and_o prayer_n be_v keep_v pure_a in_o the_o episcopal_a day_n
convince_v of_o the_o thing_n the_o man_n after_o long_o labour_v with_o he_o but_o to_o no_o purpose_n for_o he_o be_v tenacious_a in_o his_o own_o opinion_n and_o as_o hieron_n say_v of_o jovinianus_n non_fw-la est_fw-la contentus_fw-la nostro_fw-la i._n e._n humano_fw-la more_fw-mi loqui_fw-la altius_fw-la quiddam_fw-la aggreditur_fw-la high_a fly_v in_o his_o notion_n the_o elder_n see_v that_o obstinacy_n be_v join_v to_o his_o error_n they_o conclude_v that_o either_o they_o must_v cast_v that_o ordinance_n out_o of_o the_o church_n or_o else_o cast_v he_o out_o of_o the_o church_n and_o so_o the_o church_n of_o rowley_n do_v cast_v he_o out_o i_o know_v they_o have_v be_v censure_v for_o this_o act_n by_o some_o here_o but_o at_o the_o day_n of_o judgement_n they_o will_v give_v as_o comfortable_a a_o account_n for_o maintain_v of_o the_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n as_o they_o shall_v do_v who_o through_o their_o maxim_n of_o error_n in_o non-fundamentalls_a make_v way_n to_o loose_v all_o the_o ordinance_n and_o then_o where_o be_v the_o church_n from_o this_o example_n of_o paul_n and_o silas_n we_o may_v argue_v if_o two_o may_v sing_v hymn_n or_o psalm_n together_o then_o four_o may_v so_o forty_o the_o number_n hinder_v not_o for_o the_o voice_n here_o of_o many_o be_v no_o hindrance_n to_o the_o ordinance_n but_o rather_o they_o help_v to_o stir_v up_o the_o affection_n one_o of_o another_o as_o in_o those_o who_o be_v fill_v with_o wine_n two_o sing_v together_o or_o four_o do_v not_o hinder_v their_o conceit_a mirth_n so_o christ_n and_o his_o eleven_o apostle_n sing_v together_o whether_o will_v these_o man_n allow_v one_o christian_n to_o sing_v a_o psalm_n alone_o by_o himself_o methinks_v the_o text_n and_o example_n mention_v together_o with_o jam._n 5.13_o be_v any_o man_n merry_a 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d let_v he_o sing_v psalm_n be_v so_o plain_a as_o no_o rational_a man_n can_v deny_v it_o but_o if_o one_o may_v than_o the_o church_n may_v there_o be_v no_o act_n of_o worship_n which_o any_o member_n of_o the_o church_n be_v bind_v to_o perform_v but_o the_o church_n be_v bind_v to_o perform_v but_o on_o the_o contrary_a it_o be_v not_o true_a that_o what_o worship_n the_o church_n do_v perform_v a_o member_n of_o church_n can_v or_o may_v for_o instance_n for_o the_o first_o part_n meditation_n need_v no_o organ_n of_o the_o body_n and_o therefore_o i_o leave_v that_o but_o do_v a_o member_n of_o the_o church_n pray_v so_o do_v the_o whole_a church_n do_v he_o read_v the_o scripture_n so_o they_o be_v read_v in_o the_o church_n do_v he_o fast_o and_o pray_v so_o do_v the_o church_n do_v he_o sing_v a_o psalm_n so_o do_v the_o church_n but_o it_o be_v not_o true_a on_o the_o contrary_a as_o appear_v in_o the_o sacrament_n preach_v discipline_n etc._n etc._n neither_o be_v that_o place_n revel_v 15.2_o 3._o of_o small_a force_n to_o prove_v sing_v to_o be_v a_o ordinance_n 525._o exposit_n hos_fw-la 2.15_o p._n 525._o those_o who_o overcome_v the_o beast_n sing_v the_o song_n of_o moses_n this_o say_v mr._n burrough_n i_o note_v because_o hereby_o we_o may_v see_v that_o sing_n be_v a_o ordinance_n in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n not_o only_o in_o the_o time_n of_o the_o law_n but_o in_o the_o time_n of_o the_o gospel_n etc._n etc._n he_o be_v speak_v of_o the_o text_n before_o 4_o the_o four_o ground_n that_o move_v i_o be_v this_o i_o know_v not_o how_o it_o will_v take_v with_o other_o but_o with_o i_o it_o be_v something_o psal_n 92._o the_o title_n say_v it_o be_v a_o psalm_n or_o song_n for_o the_o day_n of_o sabbath_n it_o be_v clear_a that_o one_o way_n of_o sanctification_n of_o the_o sabbath_n be_v by_o sing_v of_o psalm_n two_o of_o the_o word_n that_o paul_n use_v in_o ephes_n 5.19_o be_v in_o this_o title_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d psalm_n spiritual_a song_n will_v any_o say_v this_o psalm_n be_v only_o for_o those_o time_n but_o now_o be_v abolish_v with_o the_o jewish_a 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use_v it_o in_o their_o family_n more_o than_o some_o of_o we_o do_v i_o be_o sure_a they_o find_v god_n and_o so_o have_v many_o now_o in_o these_o day_n those_o who_o have_v not_o find_v god_n in_o it_o they_o may_v cavil_v indeed_o but_o let_v they_o be_v rather_o humble_v that_o god_n have_v not_o give_v they_o what_o other_o have_v taste_v those_o who_o do_v frequent_o find_v god_n in_o this_o ordinance_n they_o will_v not_o so_o slight_o and_o scornful_o speak_v of_o it_o as_o that_o sectary_n do_v to_o i_o but_o if_o god_n have_v usual_o manifest_v his_o presence_n with_o his_o church_n under_o the_o old_a and_o new_a testament_n in_o the_o use_n of_o this_o ordinance_n this_o with_o the_o former_a scripture_n allege_v prevail_v with_o i_o to_o believe_v it_o be_v a_o gospel_n ordinance_n still_o 6_o the_o last_o ground_n that_o move_v i_o be_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n antiquity_n after_o scripture_n be_v as_o a_o cypher_n after_o a_o figure_n and_o do_v increase_v the_o number_n that_o sing_v be_v frequent_a among_o those_o christian_n i_o find_v it_o record_v 1_o eusebius_n report_v out_o of_o philo_n the_o life_n manner_n etc._n etc._n of_o the_o religious_a man_n in_o egypt_n mark_v be_v send_v into_o egypt_n 17_o eccles_n hist_o lib._n 2._o c._n 17_o as_o say_v the_o story_n to_o preach_v christ_n he_o there_o convert_v many_o who_o conversation_n as_o i_o say_v philo_n judaeus_n a_o very_a learned_a man_n at_o that_o time_n set_v forth_o in_o commendation_n of_o the_o christian_n ecclesiast_fw-la hierom_n also_o relate_v this_o out_o of_o philo_n orationi_fw-la vacatur_fw-la &_o psalmis_fw-la catal._n script_n ecclesiast_fw-la among_o other_o thing_n this_o he_o report_v they_o contemplate_v not_o only_o divine_a thing_n but_o they_o make_v grave_a canticle_n and_o hymn_n unto_o god_n in_o a_o more_o sacred_a rhyme_n of_o every_o kind_n of_o meet_a and_o verse_n this_o philo_n a_o hebrew_n flourish_v about_o the_o year_n forty_o be_v send_v of_o a_o embassage_n to_o caius_n caligula_n about_o that_o time_n so_o than_o this_o be_v their_o practice_n in_o the_o apostle_n time_n philo_n must_v needs_o be_v bear_v and_o well_o grow_v in_o christ_n time_n 2_o for_o tertullian_n 1580._o i_o in_o paris_n print_n anno_fw-la 1580._o there_o be_v two_o testimony_n bring_v out_o of_o he_o for_o sing_v of_o psalm_n the_o one_o be_v out_o of_o apol._n c._n 2._o the_o letter_n which_o plinius_n secundus_fw-la write_v to_o trajan_n in_o behalf_n of_o the_o church_n where_o he_o mention_n the_o practice_n the_o other_o be_v out_o of_o cap._n 39_o apol._n show_v the_o discipline_n of_o the_o christian_n and_o there_o it_o be_v mention_v but_o i_o find_v two_o other_o place_n in_o he_o beside_o these_o as_o clear_a as_o those_o one_o be_v l._n 2._o ad_fw-la vxorem_fw-la have_v speak_v strong_o against_o christian_n marry_v with_o infidel_n he_o show_v the_o contrary_a how_o good_a it_o be_v for_o christian_n to_o marry_v with_o christian_n and_o among_o other_o thing_n this_o he_o mention_n sonant_fw-la inter_fw-la dvos_fw-la psalmi_n &_o hymni_fw-la &_o mutuò_fw-la provocant_fw-la quis_fw-la melius_fw-la deo_fw-la sva_fw-la canet_fw-la but_o most_o clear_a be_v that_o place_n cap._n 3._o de_fw-fr animâ_fw-la as_o for_o his_o opinion_n de_fw-fr effigy_n animae_fw-la i_o leave_v that_o but_o there_o he_o make_v mention_n of_o a_o sister_n of_o their_o church_n who_o have_v the_o gift_n of_o revelation_n which_o it_o seem_v she_o have_v in_o the_o church_n on_o the_o lord_n day_n as_o the_o scripture_n be_v read_v or_o psalm_n be_v sing_v he_o reckon_v up_o other_o ordinance_n prayer_n etc._n etc._n then_o matter_n for_o vision_n be_v administer_v etc._n etc._n now_o this_o
but_o be_v at_o first_o a_o notorious_a wretch_n '_o a_fw-fr mock-god_n captain_n of_o drunkard_n who_o come_v into_o the_o church_n as_o the_o minister_n be_v in_o prayer_n god_n break_v his_o heart_n and_o follow_v it_o on_o so_o as_o he_o become_v a_o eminent_a saint_n object_n they_o mix_v with_o we_o in_o our_o sing_n mix_a worship_n we_o can_v join_v in_o answ_n i_o can_v conceive_v what_o harm_n this_o can_v do_v to_o you_o be_v the_o mix_n of_o your_o own_o corruption_n in_o your_o service_n less_o prejudicial_a to_o the_o acceptance_n of_o it_o with_o god_n than_o the_o presence_n of_o wicked_a man_n join_v in_o the_o service_n if_o indeed_o you_o can_v prove_v to_o i_o that_o god_n will_v not_o have_v wicked_a man_n sing_v but_o if_o they_o do_v he_o will_v not_o accept_v of_o the_o service_n of_o his_o people_n this_o be_v some_o ground_n for_o your_o exception_n but_o i_o conceive_v you_o will_v not_o be_v able_a to_o prove_v the_o former_a much_o less_o the_o latter_a that_o wicked_a man_n may_v sing_v i_o prove_v thus_o first_o if_o wicked_a man_n may_v pray_v unto_o god_n as_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v than_o they_o may_v praise_v god_n the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v this_o also_o nature_n teach_v i_o to_o pray_v to_o god_n for_o what_o i_o want_v and_o nature_n teach_v i_o to_o praise_n god_n for_o what_o i_o receive_v if_o then_o natural_a man_n may_v praise_v god_n with_o their_o mouth_n for_o praise_v must_v be_v express_v with_o tongue_n or_o pen_n if_o you_o take_v it_o proper_o as_o i_o say_v before_o why_o not_o by_o sing_v god_n have_v give_v this_o gift_n to_o they_o as_o well_o as_o to_o other_o but_o that_o to_o praise_n god_n be_v a_o part_n of_o natural_a worship_n and_o belong_v to_o all_o man_n we_o may_v conceive_v by_o the_o example_n of_o the_o philistines_n judg._n 16.23_o they_o meet_v to_o offer_v a_o great_a sacrifice_n to_o dagon_n and_o to_o rejoice_v because_o of_o samson_n here_o be_v a_o day_n of_o thanksgiving_n so_o 1_o chron._n 10.9_o because_o saul_n be_v slay_v etc._n etc._n if_o we_o go_v to_o the_o roman_n we_o shall_v find_v nature_n have_v teach_v they_o to_o sing_v to_o their_o feign_a god_n 19_o godw._n rom._n ant._n l._n 2._o s_o 2._o c._n 19_o not_o to_o transcribe_v their_o rite_n in_o their_o sacrifice_n after_o the_o portion_n lay_v out_o for_o the_o god_n have_v be_v burn_v then_o do_v all_o the_o people_n repair_v to_o a_o common_a feast_n where_o as_o they_o be_v eat_v they_o sing_v hymn_n and_o song_n in_o the_o praise_n of_o their_o god_n and_o play_v on_o cymbal_n they_o dance_v about_o the_o altar_n intimate_v thereby_o that_o there_o be_v no_o part_n of_o their_o body_n but_o shall_v be_v employ_v in_o the_o service_n of_o their_o god_n etc._n etc._n if_o nature_n teach_v the_o roman_n to_o sing_v hymn_n and_o song_n to_o their_o feign_a and_o foolish_a god_n why_o shall_v wicked_a man_n be_v debar_v from_o sing_v to_o the_o true_a god_n 2._o we_o find_v exod._n 15.1_o moses_n and_o the_o son_n of_o israel_n sing_v a_o song_n to_o the_o lord_n in_o v._o 12._o miriam_n bid_v the_o woman_n sing_v i_o doubt_v not_o but_o among_o these_o son_n and_o daughter_n of_o israel_n there_o be_v person_n as_o corrupt_v as_o any_o in_o our_o congregation_n then_o the_o presence_n of_o wicked_a man_n do_v not_o so_o defile_v you_o or_o the_o ordinance_n as_o be_v suppose_v to_o themselves_o indeed_o it_o be_v pollute_v as_o be_v all_o other_o thing_n but_o this_o hinder_v not_o moses_n nor_o miriam_n they_o do_v not_o separate_v all_o those_o who_o be_v godly_a from_o the_o rest_n and_o sing_v only_o with_o they_o i_o doubt_v they_o shall_v have_v have_v but_o few_o songster_n 3._o may_v a_o wicked_a man_n read_v a_o psalm_n or_o one_o of_o those_o song_n give_v i_o a_o reason_n why_o not_o will_v you_o debar_v a_o wicked_a man_n from_o read_v the_o word_n if_o he_o may_v read_v a_o psalm_n why_o may_v not_o he_o sing_v the_o psalm_n to_o read_v the_o word_n be_v worship_n so_o to_o sing_v the_o psalm_n be_v worship_n it_o be_v true_a he_o can_v sing_v as_o he_o shall_v no_o more_o he_o can_v read_v the_o psalm_n as_o he_o shall_v nor_o hear_v etc._n etc._n therefore_o he_o must_v not_o read_v nor_o hear_v the_o word_n to_o sing_v be_v we_o see_v teach_v by_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n as_o well_o as_o the_o other_o to_o pray_v read_v or_o hear_v the_o word_n this_o ordinance_n be_v not_o as_o the_o sacrament_n which_o we_o do_v not_o see_v so_o by_o nature_n light_n but_o have_v they_o by_o divine_a institution_n reveal_v have_v also_o a_o seal_a nature_n annex_v to_o they_o 4._o we_o find_v the_o word_n call_v upon_o all_o sort_n of_o person_n to_o praise_n god_n psal_n 96.1_o sing_v unto_o the_o lord_n all_o the_o earth_n psal_n 68.32_o sing_v unto_o the_o lord_n all_o the_o kingdom_n of_o the_o earth_n etc._n etc._n several_a such_o text_n we_o find_v i_o may_v add_v more_o argument_n and_o answer_v to_o some_o objection_n but_o i_o content_v myself_o with_o these_o object_n but_o they_o mix_v with_o we_o in_o the_o lord_n supper_n answ_n that_o the_o presence_n of_o other_o defile_v you_o especial_o if_o you_o have_v do_v your_o duty_n to_o keep_v that_o ordinance_n clear_v be_v a_o thing_n that_o our_o congregational_a man_n utter_o deny_v those_o who_o be_v acquaint_v with_o their_o work_n may_v see_v it_o often_o mention_v therefore_o i_o quote_v none_o 2._o i_o will_v be_v bold_a to_o say_v there_o be_v many_o presbyterial_a minister_n who_o have_v as_o few_o wicked_a man_n at_o that_o ordinance_n as_o be_v in_o the_o church_n of_o corinth_n there_o be_v more_o matter_n of_o exception_n in_o that_o church_n for_o the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o lord_n supper_n then_o be_v in_o abundance_n of_o these_o church_n beside_o you_o see_v what_o course_n they_o do_v take_v to_o keep_v that_o ordinance_n clear_a and_o when_o they_o can_v not_o obtain_v what_o they_o desire_v of_o the_o civil_a power_n yet_o they_o resolve_v to_o go_v further_o which_o give_v mr._n prynne_n occasion_n to_o write_v against_o they_o 3._o i_o doubt_v if_o we_o examine_v thing_n well_o yourselves_o be_v most_o to_o blame_v in_o that_o for_o which_o you_o separate_v suppose_v you_o be_v in_o a_o congregationall_a church_n and_o have_v all_o thing_n as_o you_o desire_v if_o there_o be_v any_o person_n there_o who_o fall_v scandalous_o that_o he_o deserve_v to_o be_v suspend_v from_o the_o ordinance_n i_o pray_v tell_v i_o what_o method_n will_v you_o take_v i_o be_o sure_a the_o method_n be_v this_o if_o thy_o brother_n offend_v tell_v he_o if_o he_o hear_v thou_o not_o take_v two_o if_o not_o tell_v the_o church_n matth._n 18._o what_o shall_v the_o minister_n alone_o suspend_v he_o it_o may_v be_v he_o know_v not_o of_o it_o when_o no_o witness_n come_v in_o against_o he_o no_o sure_o yea_o suppose_v a_o minister_n see_v a_o man_n drink_v one_o of_o his_o member_n and_o none_o see_v he_o or_o know_v it_o but_o himself_o he_o deal_v indeed_o with_o this_o member_n but_o the_o man_n deny_v it_o he_o say_v he_o be_v not_o the_o minister_n be_v sure_a he_o be_v drink_v but_o want_v witness_n the_o man_n come_v to_o the_o supper_n deny_v the_o thing_n though_o the_o minister_n have_v wish_v he_o private_o to_o forbear_v shall_v the_o minister_n now_o debar_v he_o no_o sure_a the_o text_n lay_v another_o method_n the_o minister_n must_v not_o be_v the_o sole_a witness_n and_o judge_n too_o for_o if_o minister_n may_v debar_v upon_o their_o own_o head_n without_o witness_n they_o may_v soon_o do_v strange_a thing_n now_o have_v you_o do_v thus_o deal_v with_o the_o person_n or_o two_o of_o you_o go_v to_o the_o minister_n and_o tell_v he_o you_o know_v such_o thing_n by_o such_o person_n which_o you_o can_v and_o will_v prove_v such_o thing_n as_o if_o not_o repent_v of_o make_v he_o unfit_a for_o the_o ordinance_n 3._o see_v master_n barro_n hos_n cap._n 5._o v._n 3._o and_o have_v the_o minister_n yet_o receive_v he_o if_o he_o have_v you_o have_v discharge_v your_o duty_n and_o no_o guilt_n lie_v on_o you_o you_o may_v partake_v i_o doubt_v there_o be_v few_o have_v done-thus_a but_o if_o they_o be_v person_n of_o quality_n especial_o than_o you_o pull_v in_o your_o horn_n afraid_a to_o appear_v but_o yet_o you_o will_v have_v the_o minister_n to_o suspend_v he_o when_o no_o witness_n come_v in_o contrary_a to_o the_o rule_n or_o else_o you_o separate_v this_o blame_n will_v lie_v on_o your_o own_o head_n all_o your_o shift_n here_o be_v we_o have_v no_o power_n to_o deal_v with_o man_n we_o want_v a_o explicit_a
be_v say_v what_o need_v of_o that_o ordination_n they_o may_v preach_v without_o it_o be_v true_a they_o may_v but_o it_o be_v not_o so_o comfortable_a as_o when_o man_n be_v set_v apart_o by_o a_o divine_a institution_n there_o be_v a_o authority_n more_o confer_v they_o may_v now_o baptize_v as_o they_o find_v success_n of_o their_o ministry_n which_o be_v the_o old_a way_n and_o shall_v not_o need_v be_v put_v to_o those_o trouble_n which_o now_o they_o be_v here_o suppose_v laborious_a mr._n eliot_n be_v not_o ordain_v who_o shall_v baptize_v the_o indian_n call_v home_o to_o christ_n by_o he_o the_o first_o preacher_n that_o come_v into_o england_n be_v ordain_v before_o elect_a here_o as_o suppose_v they_o shall_v convert_v divers_a indian_n forty_o or_o fifty_o mile_n from_o any_o plantation_n how_o shall_v these_o be_v baptize_v what_o shall_v they_o now_o elect_v and_o ordain_v these_o man_n shall_v unbaptised_a person_n ordain_v a_o officer_n where_o have_v we_o a_o rule_n for_o that_o then_o it_o seem_v all_o these_o must_v come_v to_o another_o church_n etc._n etc._n forty_o or_o fifty_o mile_n distant_a to_o a_o church_n also_o who_o language_n they_o understand_v not_o and_o there_o be_v baptize_v by_o a_o minister_n who_o they_o understand_v not_o nor_o he_o they_o here_o be_v many_o odd_a thing_n fall_v in_o cross_a to_o all_o scripture_n precedent_n but_o to_o have_v these_o ordain_v and_o send_v forth_o be_v not_o cross_v to_o the_o scripture_n precedent_n but_o if_o this_o be_v grant_v than_o ordination_n without_o election_n may_v give_v the_o essential_o to_o a_o officer_n but_o further_a here_o you_o say_v election_n give_v the_o essential_o i_o beseech_v you_o what_o shall_v we_o do_v then_o with_o all_o those_o scripture_n where_o ordination_n be_v hold_v out_o so_o full_o shall_v we_o omit_v they_o if_o they_o contain_v but_o a_o adjunct_n no_o i_o be_o sure_a this_o gracious_a saint_n will_v not_o do_v so_o his_o heart_n be_v so_o awe_v with_o high_a thought_n of_o god_n and_o his_o word_n that_o he_o dare_v not_o omit_v such_o a_o divine_a institution_n as_o those_o scripture_n hold_v out_o be_v then_o those_o six_o or_o seven_o scripture_n allege_v for_o ordination_n as_o necessary_a to_o a_o minister_n call_v as_o those_o three_o which_o be_v bring_v for_o election_n if_o not_o i_o pray_v give_v a_o reason_n why_o some_o scripture_n shall_v be_v less_o set_v by_o than_o other_o in_o this_o nature_n divine_a authority_n we_o acknowledge_v in_o both_o but_o this_o be_v far_o from_o this_o reverend_a man_n thought_n for_o we_o see_v he_o prove_v church-discipline_n to_o be_v a_o fundamental_a point_n of_o religion_n from_o imposition_n of_o hand_n then_o if_o these_o scripture_n be_v equal_o as_o necessary_a to_o the_o constitution_n of_o a_o minister_n that_o none_o must_v dare_v to_o omit_v they_o we_o do_v but_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d in_o say_v that_o ordination_n be_v but_o a_o adjunct_n etc._n etc._n in_o constitute_v church_n those_o who_o omit_v ordination_n go_v cross_n to_o those_o many_o text_n of_o scripture_n they_o follow_v not_o the_o pattern_n most_o some_o i_o know_v make_v little_a of_o election_n but_o i_o will_v give_v it_o the_o most_o and_o so_o sin_n against_o the_o second_o commandment_n as_o do_v they_o who_o go_v cross_v to_o the_o text_n for_o election_n and_o if_o election_n in_o a_o extraordinary_a case_n may_v serve_v without_o a_o formal_a ordination_n in_o the_o like_a case_n may_v ordination_n be_v without_o election_n and_o so_o we_o be_v even_o further_o in_o answer_n to_o the_o argument_n they_o be_v relate_v suppose_v i_o shall_v say_v the_o election_n of_o the_o people_n give_v a_o part_n of_o the_o essence_n to_o the_o officer_n for_o so_o we_o consider_v the_o call_n of_o a_o minister_n to_o be_v a_o totum_fw-la arise_v out_o of_o election_n and_o ordination_n as_o doctor_n ames_n it_o may_v be_v you_o will_v say_v relata_fw-la quà _fw-la sic_fw-la do_v not_o give_v a_o part_n of_o the_o essence_n but_o the_o whole_a here_o than_o will_v be_v our_o trouble_n whether_o we_o must_v bring_v scripture_n to_o logic_n or_o carry_v our_o logic_n to_o scripture_n why_o then_o do_v not_o minister_n act_v official_o upon_o bare_a election_n as_o i_o say_v before_o but_o it_o be_v answer_v their_o election_n give_v the_o essence_n as_o he_o be_v their_o minister_n but_o ordination_n give_v the_o essence_n as_o he_o be_v a_o minister_n 151._o mr._n hudson_n have_v speak_v close_o to_o this_o vind._n chur._n cathol_n visâ—â—_n p._n 138._o ad_fw-la 151._o for_o ordination_n do_v invest_v a_o minister_n with_o power_n to_o act_v beyond_o those_o who_o have_v call_v he_o give_v he_o a_o habitual_a power_n in_o actu_fw-la primo_fw-la to_o exercise_n and_o perform_v the_o act_n belong_v to_o his_o office_n elsewhere_o upon_o a_o call_n i_o know_v indeed_o our_o new_a england_n divine_v many_o i_o say_v not_o all_o as_o well_o as_o reverend_a mr._n hooker_n be_v of_o another_o opinion_n that_o a_o man_n be_v a_o officer_n only_o to_o his_o own_o particular_a congregation_n relatorum_fw-la mutuum_fw-la est_fw-la iter_fw-la but_o suppose_v i_o shall_v say_v a_o minister_n bear_v a_o habitual_a relation_n to_o the_o whole_a church-catholick_n visible_a which_o some_o of_o our_o divine_n do_v now_o i_o think_v strong_o prove_v for_o my_o part_n i_o can_v never_o swallow_v that_o notion_n that_o a_o pastor_n preach_v only_o as_o a_o pastor_n to_o those_o who_o elect_v he_o and_o to_o other_o church_n as_o a_o gift_a brother_n i_o dare_v bold_o affirm_v in_o the_o apostle_n time_n and_o the_o pure_a age_n next_o they_o this_o notion_n be_v never_o hear_v as_o for_o this_o notion_n of_o a_o catholic_n visible_a church_n i_o have_v not_o so_o much_o busy_v my_o head_n about_o it_o till_o of_o late_a &_o in_o my_o weak_a judgement_n i_o think_v there_o be_v so_o much_o say_v for_o it_o by_o mr._n hudson_n especial_o and_o other_o that_o i_o suppose_v it_o will_v not_o easy_o be_v answer_v that_o which_o make_v i_o lean_a to_o this_o opinion_n be_v first_n the_o light_n which_o his_o scripture_n and_o argument_n bring_v along_o with_o they_o 2_o i_o do_v not_o see_v by_o this_o notion_n that_o the_o people_n be_v at_o all_o defraud_a of_o what_o be_v proper_o they_o they_o may_v elect_v officer_n they_o may_v have_v power_n to_o bring_v in_o testimony_n to_o exclude_v unworthy_a communicant_n yea_o or_o may_v object_v against_o any_o who_o shall_v be_v admit_v church-member_n if_o church_n be_v in_o their_o first_o constitute_v if_o they_o know_v good_a reason_n why_o they_o shall_v not_o be_v admit_v neither_o be_v they_o debar_v from_o consent_v with_o their_o officer_n in_o excommunication_n i_o say_v i_o do_v not_o see_v but_o these_o privilege_n may_v consist_v with_o this_o notion_n 3._o impression_n mr._n huds_n vind_z 160._o 161._o let_v particular_a church_n walk_v as_o they_o shall_v regular_o and_o they_o have_v as_o much_o liberty_n as_o they_o can_v desire_v if_o they_o walk_v irregular_o see_v mr._n cotton_v key_n 53.54_o the_o second_o impression_n i_o see_v this_o notion_n do_v not_o cross_v that_o position_n which_o i_o have_v hold_v out_o viz._n that_o a_o particular_a church_n organise_v and_o walk_v regular_o may_v execute_v all_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n within_o itself_o i_o see_v not_o how_o a_o particular_a church_n in_o this_o case_n be_v at_o all_o hinder_v for_o such_o a_o church_n to_o walk_v irregular_o and_o to_o claim_v exemption_n from_o all_o other_o church-power_n let_v those_o that_o will_v be_v member_n of_o such_o church_n i_o desire_v not_o to_o be_v so_o but_o in_o such_o church_n where_o there_o may_v be_v mean_n to_o help_v a_o wicked_a heart_n 4._o in_o this_o notion_n i_o see_v a_o way_n how_o congregation_n that_o have_v no_o minister_n may_v have_v minister_n ordain_v successive_o by_o officer_n which_o i_o be_o sure_o be_v the_o old_a way_n yea_o and_o officer_n may_v be_v judge_v per_fw-la pares_fw-la and_o excommunicate_v i_o see_v it_o will_v bring_v in_o much_o order_n into_o church_n 5._o the_o practice_n i_o observe_v in_o new_a england_n that_o do_v imply_v such_o a_o notion_n as_o this_o do_v lead_v i_o much_o to_o it_o 1._o as_o that_o member_n of_o one_o church_n do_v so_o frequent_o partake_v of_o the_o sacrament_n both_o the_o lord_n supper_n and_o baptism_n in_o other_o church_n one_o pastor_n it_o may_v be_v may_v administer_v the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o lord_n supper_n to_o the_o member_n of_o five_o or_o six_o church_n at_o one_o time_n i_o know_v it_o be_v often_o say_v that_o a_o mayor_n of_o one_o corporation_n may_v administer_v justice_n to_o the_o member_n of_o another_o corporation_n if_o they_o be_v under_o his_o jurisdiction_n but_o he_o
the_o people_n be_v but_o a_o homogeneal_a body_n to_o reject_v i.e._n excommunicate_v a_o ossicer_n will_v cost_v more_o to_o prove_v have_v reverend_a mr._n hooker_n be_v alive_a and_o see_v what_o work_v church-member_n make_v here_o in_o england_n in_o very_a many_o church_n i_o think_v it_o will_v have_v cause_v he_o to_o bethink_v himself_o again_o of_o the_o people_n power_n something_o we_o hear_v of_o be_v do_v in_o a_o church_n not_o far_o from_o the_o place_n where_o he_o live_v it_o can_v be_v keep_v close_o the_o light_n of_o that_o fire_n shine_v into_o england_n for_o the_o people_n to_o withdraw_v their_o subjection_n from_o such_o a_o officer_n when_o there_o be_v no_o other_o officer_n to_o join_v with_o they_o to_o excommunicate_v he_o this_o be_v not_o deny_v for_o by_o their_o subjection_n to_o he_o they_o make_v he_o their_o officer_n that_o be_v some_o part_n so_o they_o may_v withdraw_v their_o subjection_n again_o but_o for_o excommunication_n mr._n cotton_n say_v it_o be_v one_o of_o the_o high_a act_n of_o rule_n in_o the_o church_n 16_o key_n p._n 16_o and_o therefore_o can_v be_v perform_v but_o by_o some_o ruler_n mr._n burrough_n say_v 51._o iren._n 51._o if_o the_o church_n be_v without_o officer_n they_o can_v do_v that_o which_o belong_v to_o officer_n to_o do_v they_o have_v no_o sacrament_n among_o they_o neither_o can_v they_o have_v any_o spiritual_a jurisdiction_n exercise_v among_o they_o only_o brotherly_a admonition_n and_o withdraw_v from_o such_o as_o walk_v disorderly_a for_o their_o own_o preservation_n so_o then_o here_o be_v a_o way_n for_o the_o people_n to_o preserve_v themselves_o though_o they_o can_v excommunicate_v and_o those_o text_n which_o reverend_a mr._n hooker_n bring_v matth._n 7.15_o and_o phil._n 3.2_o do_v not_o prove_v the_o church_n as_o a_o homogencal_a body_n to_o have_v power_n to_o excommunicate_v their_o officer_n though_o they_o may_v prove_v withdraw_v as_o also_o rom._n 16.17_o may_v prove_v it_o for_o the_o reason_n of_o his_o consequence_n that_o staple_n rule_n ejusdem_fw-la est_fw-la instituere_fw-la destituere_fw-la this_o maxim_n be_v turn_v every_o way_n sometime_o to_o prove_v the_o people_n may_v excommunicate_v their_o officer_n because_o they_o do_v instituere_fw-la the_o people_n in_o election_n put_v forth_o no_o act_n of_o jurisdiction_n therefore_o they_o may_v put_v forth_o the_o high_a act_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o excommunication_n that_o there_o be_v no_o act_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o election_n doctor_n ames_n acknowledge_v ovas_n rationales_fw-la possunt_fw-la eligere_fw-la sibi_fw-la pastorem_fw-la sicut_fw-la sponsa_fw-la eligit_fw-la sibisponsum_fw-la non_fw-la per_fw-la jurisdictionem_fw-la aut_fw-la gubernationem_fw-la sed_fw-la potius_fw-la per_fw-la subjectionem_fw-la in_o the_o answer_n before_o he_o affirm_v the_o same_o and_o elsewhere_o now_o what_o argue_v be_v this_o 13._o bellar._n enter_fw-mi to_o 2_o l._n 3._o c._n 2._o s._n 19_o ib._n s._n 13._o to_o argue_v from_o subjection_n to_o the_o high_a act_n of_o jurisdiction_n there_o be_v no_o authority_n in_o election_n for_o electio_fw-la non_fw-la cogit_fw-la yet_o there_o be_v more_o power_n see_v in_o civil_a election_n than_o church-election_n as_o i_o shall_v touch_v afterward_o but_o in_o excommunication_n authority_n appear_v that_o also_o be_v deny_v that_o the_o people_n do_v instituere_fw-la in_o constitute_v chruche_n and_o ordinary_o what_o may_v be_v do_v in_o a_o extraordinary_a case_n be_v no_o ordinary_a rule_n here_o the_o maxim_n be_v turn_v to_o prove_v that_o they_o may_v jnstituere_fw-la because_o they_o can_v destituere_fw-la but_o that_o will_v be_v deny_v unless_o it_o be_v in_o the_o sense_n before_o mention_v i._n e._n in_o what_o manner_n and_o how_o far_o they_o do_v instituere_fw-la i.e._n by_o a_o subjection_n to_o be_v their_o officer_n so_o they_o may_v withdraw_v their_o subjection_n from_o he_o and_o not_o own_v he_o to_o be_v their_o officer_n but_o to_o excommunicate_v be_v more_o quest_n but_o suppose_v this_o be_v grant_v that_o the_o fraternity_n can_v excommunicate_v their_o officer_n but_o withdraw_v their_o subjection_n they_o may_v you_o say_v and_o so_o he_o cease_v to_o be_v their_o officer_n but_o what_o be_v he_o now_o a_o officer_n to_o other_o church_n a._n if_o the_o withdraw_a their_o subjection_n and_o reject_v be_v irregular_a then_o though_o they_o make_v he_o not_o their_o officer_n de_fw-fr facto_fw-la which_o he_o be_v still_o the_o jure_fw-la yet_o his_o relation_n to_o the_o church-catholick_n visible_a do_v still_o hold_v and_o another_o church_n give_v he_o a_o call_v he_o have_v then_o power_n actu_fw-la secundâ—_n to_o administer_v the_o ordinance_n there_o for_o instance_n the_o separatist_n cast_v off_o he_o who_o before_o they_o choose_v for_o their_o officer_n suppose_v now_o unless_o he_o will_v renounce_v his_o ordination_n he_o be_v no_o minister_n do_v he_o therefore_o cease_v to_o be_v a_o minister_n how_o bufie_v some_o congregationall_a church_n be_v in_o withdraw_a from_o their_o officer_n it_o be_v too_o manifest_a and_o many_o go_v to_o the_o anabaptist_n some_o turn_v seeker_n andif_a all_o the_o member_n do_v thus_o do_v they_o now_o cease_v to_o be_v minister_n 2_o but_o if_o the_o withdraw_a be_v regular_a the_o cause_n just_a try_v etc._n etc._n then_o that_o which_o be_v sufficient_a ground_n for_o their_o withdraw_a from_o he_o be_v just_a cause_n why_o he_o shall_v be_v excommunicate_v be_v pertinacious_o scandalous_a or_o heretical_a as_o mr._n hooker_n suppose_v if_o then_o the_o case_n of_o a_o church_n be_v so_o as_o they_o be_v cast_v by_o providence_n into_o some_o remote_a place_n where_o be_v no_o church_n beside_o to_o combine_v with_o then_o as_o their_o election_n of_o he_o etc._n etc._n as_o i_o say_v before_o may_v supply_v the_o want_n of_o ordination_n so_o this_o withdraw_a in_o such_o a_o extraordinary_a case_n may_v be_v analogum_fw-la to_o excommunication_n but_o say_v our_o divine_n if_o that_o church_n be_v in_o combination_n with_o other_o church_n as_o now_o under_o a_o classis_fw-la than_o the_o people_n shall_v not_o need_v to_o stay_v there_o in_o their_o withdraw_a but_o the_o case_n be_v judge_v and_o try_v by_o the_o classis_fw-la they_o as_o they_o ordain_v he_o when_o the_o people_n elect_v he_o the_o people_n consent_v do_v excommunicate_v he_o then_o as_o a_o man_n cast_v out_o of_o one_o church_n be_v cast_v out_o from_o the_o catholic_n church_n visible_a so_o he_o who_o be_v cast_v out_o from_o be_v a_o officer_n to_o this_o church_n be_v cast_v out_o from_o be_v a_o minister_n to_o the_o church-catholicke_a visible_a for_o the_o other_o argument_n 78_o burro_fw-la iren_n p._n 50_o nort._n resp_n ad_fw-la apoll._n p._n 76_o 78_o the_o people_n convey_v of_o power_n to_o a_o officer_n i_o know_v of_o no_o power_n the_o people_n convey_v only_o a_o designation_n of_o such_o a_o person_n to_o officiate_v in_o this_o or_o that_o society_n but_o their_o power_n they_o receive_v from_o christ_n immediate_o as_o our_o congregationall_a man_n affirm_v and_o hence_o they_o act_v in_o his_o name_n not_o in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o church_n 5_o the_o last_o answer_n i_o will_v give_v to_o this_o proposal_n be_v this_o if_o you_o conceive_v this_o to_o be_v the_o only_a way_n of_o reformation_n than_o you_o must_v give_v the_o minister_n strong_a proof_n that_o you_o may_v ordain_v the_o minister_n will_v as_o much_o question_n your_o power_n to_o ordain_v as_o you_o question_v the_o bishop_n power_n so_o that_o we_o take_v it_o for_o grant_v you_o be_v able_a to_o prove_v this_o because_o you_o be_v so_o punctual_a you_o say_v for_o reform_v by_o the_o word_n but_o of_o this_o practice_n i_o much_o doubt_n 1_o my_o ground_n be_v because_o i_o find_v not_o one_o jota_n of_o any_o such_o thing_n in_o the_o new_a testament_n obj._n though_o you_o do_v not_o in_o the_o new_a testament_n yet_o in_o the_o old_a testament_n there_o be_v numb_a 8.10_o a._n that_o place_n be_v the_o only_a resuge_n but_o 1_o it_o be_v common_o answer_v that_o it_o be_v no_o fair_a argue_v to_o go_v to_o the_o old_a testament_n for_o one_o thing_n we_o will_v have_v and_o when_o another_o come_v to_o the_o same_o polity_n for_o a_o argument_n for_o their_o turn_n now_o to_o debar_v they_o and_o tell_v they_o this_o be_v the_o old_a polity_n either_o leave_n out_o the_o jewish_a polity_n altogether_o or_o else_o give_v other_o leave_v to_o fetch_v argument_n from_o thence_o as_o well_o as_o yourselves_o 2_o if_o you_o will_v go_v to_o that_o polity_n why_o may_v i_o not_o as_o well_o prove_v that_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n may_v ordain_v as_o well_o as_o moses_n do_v aaron_n levit._n 8._o 3_o but_o in_o that_o church_n at_o that_o time_n there_o be_v officer_n aaron_z and_o his_o son_n thence_o if_o that_o be_v a_o rule_n it_o must_v follow_v
liberty_n yet_o he_o so_o order_v their_o liberty_n that_o our_o minister_n will_v be_v glad_a if_o they_o have_v their_o church_n govern_v as_o be_v the_o church_n whereof_o himself_o together_o with_o mr._n na._n rogers_n be_v officer_n these_o be_v congregationall_a man_n schismate_fw-la de_fw-fr schismate_fw-la i_o will_v not_o rehearse_v what_o i_o find_v in_o camero_n because_o he_o write_v before_o these_o time_n and_o will_v be_v reckon_v for_o a_o presbyterian_a four_o ground_n he_o give_v for_o separation_n none_o of_o which_o i_o be_o sure_a our_o separatist_n can_v allege_v 1._o grievous_a and_o intolerable_a persecution_n 2._o when_o the_o church_n be_v heretical_a 3._o when_o idolatry_n be_v set_v up_o 4._o when_o the_o church_n be_v the_o seat_n of_o antichrist_n i_o shall_v conclude_v with_o a_o speech_n of_o he_o ut_fw-la nihil_fw-la aequè_fw-la arguit_fw-la ingenium_fw-la spiritus_fw-la christi_fw-la ac_fw-la studium_fw-la conservandae_fw-la societatis_fw-la &_o 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with_o the_o separatist_n i_o shall_v now_o take_v a_o short_a view_n of_o the_o agreement_n and_o difference_n that_o be_v with_o and_o between_o the_o classical_a and_o congregational_a divine_n and_o then_o shall_v make_v bold_a to_o present_v a_o humble_a request_n to_o the_o congregational_a divine_n 1._o do_v the_o classical-brethren_n stand_v for_o all_o the_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n as_o pray_v preach_a sacrament_n discipline_n &_o c_o so_o do_v the_o congregational-brethren_n 2._o do_v the_o classical-brethren_n stand_v for_o christ_n officer_n pastor_n sach_v er_n ruling-elders_a deacon_n allow_v such_o and_o only_o such_o o_o do_v the_o congregational-brethren_n they_o agree_v in_o worship_n and_o in_o officer_n 3._o do_v the_o classical-brethren_n hold_v to_o the_o old_a doctrine_n of_o faith_n repentanee_n hold_v up_o the_o preach_n of_o the_o law_n in_o its_o method_n to_o prepare_v before_o faith_n to_o guide_v after_o faith_n so_o do_v the_o congregational-brethren_n 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internal_a government_n of_o the_o spirit_n what_o ever_o our_o fantastical_a spiritualist_n have_v dream_v of_o the_o scripture_n be_v too_o plain_a against_o these_o second_o than_o there_o be_v governor_n and_o govern_v this_o must_v needs_o be_v yield_v else_o government_n can_v be_v for_o governor_n there_o be_v none_o that_o be_v sound_a in_o their_o wit_n can_v deny_v if_o they_o own_o the_o scripture_n three_o the_o affair_n then_o of_o the_o church_n must_v be_v so_o carry_v that_o these_o relate_v may_v be_v keep_v distinct_a for_o that_o government_n which_o destroy_v these_o by_o make_v the_o correlate_n i._n the_o body_n govern_v to_o be_v governor_n and_o so_o there_o be_v none_o govern_v can_v possible_o be_v a_o government_n stand_v so_o much_o with_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n there_o be_v no_o government_n if_o all_o rule_n obj._n but_o how_o can_v the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n be_v aristocratical_a when_o as_o you_o carry_v thing_n by_o the_o suffrage_n 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any_o power_n invest_v with_o authority_n but_o if_o they_o enjoin_v a_o thing_n to_o be_v do_v and_o it_o be_v refuse_v that_o authority_n will_v reach_v further_o authoritas_fw-la cogit_fw-la as_o be_v the_o kind_n of_o the_o authority_n civil_a or_o ecclesiastical_a bless_a burrough_n in_o answer_v to_o that_o which_o some_o will_v have_v 44._o iren._n p._n 44._o scil_n that_o a_o synod_n may_v formal_o excommunicate_v because_o by_o excommunication_n they_o i.e._n heretical_a church_n be_v put_v out_o of_o the_o kingdom_n of_o christ_n into_o the_o kingdom_n of_o satan_n and_o this_o will_v terrify_v say_v consider_v whether_o this_o be_v not_o do_v before_o and_o that_o with_o a_o authority_n of_o christ_n by_o those_o former_a six_o thing_n mention_v in_o the_o page_n before_o for_o heretical_a congregation_n or_o person_n be_v judge_v and_o declare_v in_o a_o solemn_a ordinance_n by_o the_o officer_n of_o christ_n gather_v together_o in_o his_o name_n to_o be_v such_o as_o 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dispute_n do_v so_o stop_v the_o mouth_n of_o the_o anabaptist_n that_o they_o appear_v to_o the_o magistrate_n unreasonable_o obstinate_a be_v banish_v d_o the_o city_n defen_n ag_n tomb._n 58._o ecclesiae_fw-la appellant_n magistratum_fw-la in_o causis_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la non_fw-la ad_fw-la doctrinam_fw-la declarandam_fw-la vel_fw-la disciplinam_fw-la exequendam_fw-la sed_fw-la ad_fw-la doctrinam_fw-la a_o cencilio_fw-la declaratam_fw-la vel_fw-la disciplinam_fw-la ab_fw-la ecclesiâ_fw-la applicatam_fw-la sanctione_n civili_fw-la confirmandam_fw-la the_o dury_n which_o mr._n cotton_n show_v to_o lie_v upon_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n infer_v as_o much_o as_o also_o mr._n burrough_n and_o thus_o it_o be_v in_o new_a england_n when_o the_o synod_n at_o which_o the_o civil_a power_n be_v present_a as_o to_o hear_v so_o to_o keep_v civil_a order_n have_v consute_v and_o condemn_v the_o error_n and_o heresy_n and_o so_o be_v break_v up_o than_o a_o general_n court_n be_v call_v which_o soon_o suppress_v those_o heresy_n and_o bring_v the_o church_n to_o peace_n again_o if_o the_o civil_a power_n will_v do_v as_o much_o here_o we_o shall_v soon_o see_v our_o church_n in_o better_a order_n what_o civil_a magistrate_n have_v do_v in_o this_o ease_n before_o i_o need_v not_o mention_v book_n be_v full_a it_o be_v true_a the_o church_n be_v when_o there_o be_v no_o civil_a power_n to_o defend_v they_o but_o oppose_v they_o but_o we_o can_v find_v how_o many_o heresy_n and_o schism_n they_o be_v then_o trouble_v with_o shall_v the_o church_n be_v in_o no_o better_a case_n under_o a_o christian_a civil_a power_n nursing-fathers_n then_o at_o that_o time_n 6_o do_v the_o classical_a godly_a man_n look_v upon_o their_o congregation_n have_v visible_a saint_n among_o they_o to_o be_v true_a visible_a church_n so_o do_v the_o congregationall_a man_n judge_v they_o also_o i_o give_v instance_n before_o 7_o will_v then_o the_o classical_a brethren_n have_v their_o member_n be_v such_o as_o have_v right_a to_o the_o ordinance_n to_o partake_v with_o congregational_a church_n in_o the_o lord_n supper_n to_o show_v their_o communion_n certain_o so_o they_o ought_v but_o why_o congegationall_a man_n do_v refuse_v godly_a man_n member_n of_o classical_a church_n not_o admit_v they_o to_o the_o lord_n supper_n when_o they_o have_v desire_v it_o be_v very_o strange_a to_o i_o i_o wish_v our_o reverend_a brethren_n will_v give_v we_o solid_a ground_n for_o this_o practice_n for_o it_o give_v offence_n and_o that_o just_o this_fw-mi just_o preface_n to_o survey_v ch_n this_fw-mi mr._n hooker_n and_o 266._o and_o iren._n p._n 266._o mr._n burrough_n have_v both_o say_v they_o shall_v be_v admit_v shall_v a_o church_n be_v acknowledge_v to_o be_v a_o true_a church_n where_o doctrine_n and_o worship_n be_v pure_a also_o this_o person_n a_o member_n of_o it_o a_o visible_a saint_n it_o may_v be_v a_o real_a saint_n and_o shall_v he_o be_v deny_v communion_n 8_o for_o 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scorn_v by_o the_o profane_a party_n let_v not_o we_o scorn_v they_o 5_o these_o nursery_n of_o error_n i_o mean_v the_o separatist_n who_o cast_v off_o orthodox_n officer_n be_v as_o bad_a enemy_n to_o the_o congregationall_a church_n as_o they_o be_v to_o the_o classical_a nay_o worser_o your_o member_n will_v quick_o drink_v in_o their_o poison_n yea_o and_o go_v away_o from_o you_o to_o they_o 119._o pag._n 119._o as_o experience_n have_v testify_v therefore_o it_o concern_v you_o to_o join_v with_o the_o classical_a man_n against_o they_o but_o by_o one_o passage_n i_o meet_v with_o in_o the_o london_n vindication_n it_o seem_v some_o congregationall_a man_n do_v not_o think_v so_o for_o they_o in_o their_o complaint_n to_o you_o thus_o speak_v be_v there_o not_o some_o of_o you_o that_o choose_v rather_o to_o join_v with_o anabaptist_n and_o episcopal_a man_n then_o with_o we_o and_o that_o will_v give_v letter_n dimissory_a to_o your_o member_n to_o depart_v from_o you_o to_o 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