gouerne all the faythful by helpe of many inferiour officers As thoughe the Church had not inferior officers in the Apostles time If S. Peter then was not able to rule w c had such greate giftes muchlesse the Pope which is nothing comparable with him in gifts is often a wicked man an here tike is able to gouerne all the Church for he hath not so great an helpe of the conuersion of the worlde as he hath a want of Peters gracious giftes meete for such a gouernment Secondly he would haue vs mark the peculiar names of a Rock of a pastor of a confirmer of his brethren which are giueÌ„ by Christ to S. Peter alone which argue that Peters supremacy must necessarily continue for euer But who will graunt to M. S. that Christe gaue these peculier names to Peter alone indeed that which is meÌ„t by the names is ordinary and perpetual in the Church Peter was a Rock not his person but his doctrine that remaineth stil in the Church he was a shephearde and confirmer of his brethren and there bee nowe many shepheards and confirmers of their brethren Thirdly he sayth the Church neuer wanted a visible rock on the earth beside the eternall Rock Christ who in this life might bee so strongly fastened in the Faith of Christe the great Rocke that he though not for his owne sake yet for the Churches sake might be able to stay vppe all other small stones which ioyned vnto him vntill Christ came in the fleshe who likewise appoynted Saincte Peter and his successors to be this ordinary rock as Adam Enos Henoch Noe Abraham Isaac Iacob Moyses Aaron and his successors who sate in the chaire of Moyses vntill the comming of Christ. Against this I say that the church militant on earth hath her foundation in heauen and not on earth therfore the churche hath not a visible rocke in earth Againe it is not true that some one hath alwayes bene this visible rocke on earth For who was greater Abraham or Melchisedech out of all controuersie Melchisedech then was not Abraham the onely rocke After the death of Iacob and the twelue Patriarkes who was the visible rocke vntill Moyses was called And yet had God a church among the Iewes all that time Thirdly who is so impudent to say that all the successors of Aaron were so strongly fastened in the faith that they were able to stay all the small stones that leaned vpon them Was not Vrias the high Priest an idolater 2. Reg. 16. What were Iason Menclaus Lysimachus by the reporte of the booke of Machabes Was not Caiphas Annas Sadducees by the testimonie of S. Luke Act. 5. and of Iosephus Where is then the visible rocke whose faith neuer failed c we see there was none suche before Christ therefore there neede to be none suche after him His fourth reason is of the name of a pastor which signifieth an ordinarie office for as the sheepe continue after S. Peters death so must there be also a shepheard as Peter was But how proueth he that Peter was an only shepheard forsooth Chrysostom sayth lib. 2. de sacerdotio Christus sanguinem c. Christ hath shedde his bloode to purchase those sheepe the care of whom he did commit both to Peter to Peters successors But whom doth Chrysostom take for Peters successors the Bishops of Rome only No verily but all true pastors of the church as his wordes going before doe manifestly declare Neque enim tum volebat testatum esse quantum à Petro amaretur siquidem id multis nobis argument is constabat Verum hoc ille sum agebat vt Petrum caeteros nos edoceres quanta beneuolentia ac charitate ergasuam ipse ecclesiam afficeretur vt hac ratione nos quoque eiusdem ecclesiae studium curamque toto animo susciperemus For his purpose was not then to testifie vnto vs howe muche he was beloued of Peter for that was euident vnto vs by many arguments But this thing then he intended that he might teache both Peter and all vs what beneuolence and loue he beareth towarde his church that by this reason we also might take vpon vs with all our hart the loue charge of the same church This sentence sheweth that Chrysostome accounted him selfe euery true pastor of the church a successor of Peter and not the Bishop of Rome alone As for Leo a Bishop of Rome I haue often protested that he was more addicted to the dignitie of his see then the Scripture would beare him and therefore was ouerruled and resisted in the generall councel of Chalcedon His fift argument is a rule of lawe where the same reason is the same right ought to be The reason of Peters confession and power is such as agreeth to any ordinary office of the church therefore the office of Peter being a rock of strengthening his brethren and feeding Christes sheepe is an ordinarie office But I say that Peters confession made him not a rock but declared him so to be being appoynted of Christ for one of the twelue foundations of the churche the office of strengthening and feeding as it was not singular in Peter so it is not ordinarie that it should be singular in any man His sixt reason Irenaeus Optatus and Augustine did recken vp such successors of Peter as had liued till euâ—rie of their ages or times Therefore Peter had successors in his pastorall office It is not denyed but he had them and other Bishoppes also successors in his pastorall office at least the Bishoppes of Antioche whereby your owne cofession he was Bishoppe before he came to Rome Therefore his succession was not singular to the Bishoppes of one see His seuenth reason no man may preache to them to whom he is not sent therefore there must be a generall pastor to sende other to preache to them that are not conuerted to plant newe Bishoprikes to controll them that are negligent to supplie the thinges that lacke to excommunicate such as liue in no diocesse c. For sending he quoteth Rom. 10. where mention is onely of the sending of God and of the sending by men But all his questions and doubtes may be aunswered Either the whole church in generall councells or euerie particular church in their synodes as they shall see most expedient may sende preachers as the Apostles and Elders sent Peter and Iohn into Samaria order all such matters as he imagineth must be done onely by the Pope But he asketh who shall summon all other Bishoppes to generall or prouinciall councells And I aske him who summoned the foure great principall generall councells and so many prouinciall councels but the Emperours and Princes in whose dominion they were gathered So that here is no necessary affaires of the church that doth require one generall pastor or Pope of Rome when all thinges may and haue bene done best of all without him As for placing of Bishoppes in sees
A RETENTIVE TO STAY GOOD CHRISTIANS IN TRVE FAITH and religion against the motiues of Richard Bristow ALSO A DISCOVERIE OF THE DAVNGEROVS ROCKE OF THE POPISH Church commended by Nicholas Sander D. of Diuinitie Done by VVilliam Fulke Doctor of diuinitie and Maister of Pembroke hall in Cambridge Imprinted at London by Thomas Vautroullier for George Bishop 1580. A CATALOGVE OF ALL SVCH POPISH BOOKES EITHER AVNSVVERED or to be aunswered which beeinge written in the English tongue from beyond the seas or secretly dispersed here in England haue come to our hands since the beginning of the Queenes Maiesties reigne 1 HArding against the Apologie of the English Church aunswered by M. Iewell Bishop of Sarum 2 Harding against M. Iewells challenge aunswered by M. Iewell 3 Hardings reioynder to M. Iewell aunswered by M. Edward Deering 4 Coles quarrels against M. Iewell aunswered by M. Iewell 5 Rastels returne of vntruths answered by M. Iewel 6 Rastel against M. Iewels challenge aunswered by William Fulke 7 Dorman against M. Iewel answered by M. Nowel 8 Dormans disproofe of M. Nowels reproofe aunswered by M. Nowell 9 The man of Chester aunswered by M. Pilkington Bishop of Duresme 10 Sanders on the Sacrament in part aunswered by M. Nowell 11 Fecknams Scruples aunswered by M. Horne B. of Winchester 12 Fecknams Apologie aunswered by W. Fulke 13 Fecknams obiections against M. Goughes sermoÌ„ aunswered by M. Gough and M. Lawrence Tomson 14 Stapletons counterblast answered by M. Bridges 15 Marshall his defence of the crosse aunswered by M. Caulfehill 16 Fowlers Psalter aunswered by M. Sampson 17 An infamous libell or letter incerto authore against the teachers of Gods diuine prouidence predestination aunswered by Robert Crowley 18 Allens defence of Purgatory aunswered by W. Fulke 19 Heskins Parleament repealed by W. Fulke 20 An offer of a Catholickque to a learned Protestant answered by W. Fulke 21 Hosius of Gods expresse word translated into English aunswered by W. Fulke 22 Sanders rocke of the popish church vndermined by W. Fulke 23 Sanders defence of Images answered by W. Fulk 24 Marshals reply to Caulfhill answered by W. Fulk 25 Shaclockes pearle aunswered by M. Hartwell 26 The hatchet of heresies aunswered by M. Bartlet 27 M. Euans aunswered by him selfe 28 A defence of the priuate Masse aunswered by coniecture by M. Cooper Bishop of Lincolne 29 Certaine assertions tending to maintayne the Church of Rome to be the true Catholique Church confuted by Iohn Knewstub 30 Bristowes motiues and demaunds aunswered by W. Fulke 31 Stapletons fortresse of the faith aunswered by W. Fulke These Popish treatises ensuing for the most part are in aunsvvering those vvhich are not by Gods assistance as time vvill serue shall receiue their seuerall replyes If the Papistes knovv any not here reckoned let them be brought to light and they shall be examined 1 Sanders vpon the Lordes supper partly vnaunswered 2 Allens defence of Priestes authoritie to remitte sinnes and of the Churches meaning concerning indulgences 3 Stapletons returne of vntruthes 4 Rastells reply 5 Vaux his Catechisme 6 Canisius his Catechisme translated 7 Frarins oration translated 8 Iohn de Albynnes discourse against heresies enâ—â—â—hed with an offer of a Catholique to a learned Protestant which offer is aunswered vnder the name of Ristons articles by W. Fulke 9 Gregor Martins treatise of schisme 10 Poyntes of the Sacrament A REASONABLE REQVEST AND PROTESTATION OF W. Fulke to all learned Papists FOrasmuch as there is no ende of writing bookes as the wise man sayth and that the truth of argumentes is best discerned when it is brought vnto the iudgement of Logicke which is the arte of reasoning If any of the learned Papistes will reply against these and other mine aunsweres I require that as well for their owne ease as that I may haue time to peruse them and the readers no impediment but that they may clearely iudge of them they wil leaue of all vayne discourses and needelesse questions and only conclude the coÌ„trouersies of religion that are betwene vs in the strict forme of Logicall argumentes If to this reasonable request they refuse to yeelde I protest before God and the world that they shew them selues thereby to be enemies of the truth that they flie the light and dare not abide the triall Faultes escaped The first number signifieth the page the last the number of the lines Pag. 12. lin 1. Homousian r. Homousion 13. 10. last r. least 15. 8. Arrius r. AErius 15. 14. your r. there 15. 18. vvherefore r. vvhereof 15. 27. recited r. reuiued 20. 26. Iudaea r. India 27. 27. virtute r. vnitate 30. 24. coÌ„maunded r. commended 34. 32. other r. ether 36. 33. heare r. hovv 40. 14. circumstituantur r. circumstipantur 40. 37 audient r. audirent 42. 23. cere r. cura 44. 10. condemned r. conteÌ„ned 44. 36. caâ—c r. con 45. 18. true r. foure 48. 37. Marcellus r. Marcellinus 55. 19. Hovv r. Novv 58. 15. persvvadeth r. presupposeth 67. 38. r. in a maner depend 68. 11. resisting r. receiuing 68. 28. and r. an 73. 1â— quaeque r. quoque 79. 29. RipanuÌ„ r. Riparium 80. 35. Babicas r. Babilas 80. 38. for r. to 81. 7. troubles r. tombes 81. 16. Reg r. â— Reg. 13. 81. 17. lavves r. bones 82. 30. verity r. vnity 87. 10. contâ—et r. coÌ„teret 88. 2. sending r. studying 88. 33. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 88. 36. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 89. 14. v 11. r. 14. 90. 36. nor r. are 90. 38. r. vvere not better applied 92. 37. ber 2. r. ver 21. 25. learning r. hearing 95. 14. r. if by masse 95. 25. consecrated r. vnconsecrated 96. 34. that the churches of the Britans vvere of another forme then those of the Romanes 96. 35. Niua r. Ninia 99. 18. names r. nonus 100. 19. serueth r. seemeth 100. 30. austerity r. authority 103. 9. apostolicall r. apostaticall 107. 21. all our 111. 11. saue r. serue 112. 38. truly r. fondly 116. 7. shall r. should 117. 36. Bzia r. Bizari 120. 23. not r. out 127. 2. maÌ„ r. may 123. 5. rehearsed r. released 131. 23. do not vvell r. do vvell Out of the discouery of the rocke Pag. 140. Lin. 25. if read that 141. 28. or r. c. 144. 24. fuit r. sint 150. 14. receyued r. recited 20. r. these tvvo 155. l. vlt. Rhetianus r. Rhetitius 158. 2. controuersie r. conuersion 159. 5. many r. men 163. 31. vilant r. vigilant 165. 26. this r. these 167. 4 not r. as l. vlt. r. vvhich ma y. 173. 30. confirmed r. considered 176. 24. godlines r. lordlines 177. 34. that r. this true r. tvvo 189. 6. vvhen r. vvhom l. 12. put out prayse 204. 30. instituteth r. intituleth 208. 35. offered r. before made 228. 7. vnee r. ounce 232. 11. r that it l. 15. Caebastinus r. Caelestinus 233. 5. generally r. generall 236. 13. austerity r. authority 256. 1. and r. no. 250. 32. fostered r. fastened 247. 3. idio r. ideo 272.
32. that r. the. 260. 3. petram r. PetruÌ„ 276. 6. den r. doome 279. 3. deforme r. defame 280. 14. vncertainly r. vnreuereÌ„tly l. 38. vvith r. vvhich 281. 4. challeng r. calling 297. 17. Barbarita r. Borberitae 314. 13. Cyrians r. Collyridianes A RETENTIVE TO STAY GOOD CHRISTIANS IN THE TRVETH OF THE GOSPELL WRITTEN BY W Fulke against the Motiues of R. Bristow and by him directed to his friends of the Popish Church AMong such English papistes as haue written within these twentie yeares against the religion of God nowe mainteyned by publike authoritie in this Realme some haue shewed greate witte some muche readinge some flowing eloquence some all these indifferently but among them all none hath shewed lesse witte learning or good vtterance then this Richard Bristow So much the more doe I meruell when I heare that many Papistes make so great accompt of his witlesse and senselesse writinges But it fareth with them as with litle children to whome newe trifles seeme alwayes most worthy to be played with al. And verily I had thought of all other least to haue delt against this peuish prater both because he bringeth no newe matter but such as in other of his cote was with more coullor of trueth set foorth before and also for that I had alreadie made aunswere to Ryshtons challenge which as I take it is that table of the Church which Bristowe confesseth to conteine all his demaundes whiche demaundes are almost all conteined in his motiues But my friendes requiring mee not onely to aunswere this but all other writinges also of the papistes what soeuer they haue set foorth in the englishe tongue since the happie raigne of our soueraigne Ladie I haue condescended to confute euen that which deserueth no confutation and somewhat the rather because Bristow would haue this alone to bee a sufficient motiue vnto poperie that wee hauing nothing to gainesay most of their popish bookes haue not dared I vse his owne wordes once to goe about the aunswering of most of the saide Catholikes bookes But are faine to get them forbidden by proclamation althoughe ourselues haue prouoked confidently the Catholikes to write them Whervppon also he noteth that Iewels challenge is turned into proclamations how rightly or truly he that hath but halfe an eye may see His preface to the reader conteining neuer an argument or motiue which is not repeated either in the treatise it self of motiues or in the demaundes I will passe ouer and come to the firste motiue gathering the principall contentes out of his owne table as I haue done with the rest Name of Catholikes The verie name of Catholikes a certaine marke of right Catholikes Iewel vnwars testifieth the Romane religion to be Catholik Laâ—rence HuÌ„frâ—is Troian horse his pseudocatholicâ— Luthers consciens the Catholike Church to be against him Pontaâ—us erred not whose historie Humfrey himselfe vnawars confirmeth For Catholikes saith he were present as lookers on and earnest defenders What then â— but none such were moderators saue onely lay Lordes and vnlearned heretikes ergo The first motiue is the 6. demaunde In whiche he woulde proue the verie name of Catholikes to whoÌ„ soeuer it is giuen to be a certain marke of right Catholikes to be knowen as readely easely and certainely by that name as such a citie is knowne by the name of London and such a countrie by the name of England If euer he learned any logike at Oxforde he left it behinde him or else lost it by the way when hee ranne ouer the sea For if all thinges may bee knowen by the name whereby they are coÌ„monly called nothing beareth a false name all Idoles are true gods and saintes al deade carcales be liuing men Yea all heretikes which are commonly called Christians in respecte of Iewes Turkes be true Christians But we must bring him a companie of men commonly knowne by the name of Catholikes which proued heretikes Forsooth the Arrians among themselues were commonly called bv the name of Catholikes and so reputed and taken when the true Catholikes were called homousians and heretikes yea all heretikes among the Pagans were coÌ„monly knowen by the name of Christians whiche â— thinke is as glorious a name as the name of Catholikes Yet Augustine saith â—ee maketh much of the name of Catholikes Cont. â—â— Fund c. 4. Tâ—net me postremò c. Last of all the verie name of the Catholike Church doeth holde me which not without cause amongest so many heresies this Church alone hath so obteined that whereas all heretikes would haue themselues to be called Catholikes yet to a straunger which asketh where men meete at the Catholike Church none of the heretikes dare shewe either their minster or house But let vs see howe Augustine and Bristow agree Augustine maketh this name the last motiue Bristowe the first Augustine ioyneth it with many thinges Bristowe maketh it alone to be a sufficient motiue Augustine in the nexte sentence after confesseth the playne demonstration of the trueth wheresoeuer it may be shewed to bee preferred before al those motiues of Vniuersalitie miracles consente succession and name of Catholikes by which he saith that he might be helde in the Catholke Churche although he grounded no argument vppon that wisedome which the Maniches would not acknowledge to be in the catholike church his words are these Apud vos autem vbi nihil horum est quod me inuitet ac teneat sola personat veritatiae pollicitatio quâ—e quidens sutam manifesta monstratur vt in dubium venire non possit praeponenda est omnibus illis rebus quibus in Catholica tenâ—or Among you Maniches saith he where there is none of these thinges whiche might allure and hold me the onely promisle of trueth doth sounde whith trueth if it be shewed so manifeste that it caÌ„not come in doubt it is to be preferred before al those things by which I am helde in the Catholike Church This is Augustines iudgement of such simple motiues which with the trueth may helpe to confirme it but are not worth a straw when they are alledged against the truth Wherfore seing we make so plaine demonstration of the trueth out of Gods word that no maÌ„ can doubt of it but such as will followe the bare name of Catholike contrarie to the Catholike doctrine of the scriptures against all such vaine motiues wee may be bolde to oppose the trueth it selfe What a mockerie is this that hee saith that anâ—eretike in Germanie being asked where the Catholike Church is will point to â—â—â—â— popish Church Admit this to be so doth this proue the Massing Church to bee the Catholike Church In France if you aske a Papist which is y e reformed Church he will point you to the place where the congregation of true Christians vse to assemble Doth the Papist therfore acknowledge the Church of protestantes to bee in deede the reformed Churche Iâ— hee doe not the name of Catholikes proueth no more on the one syde theÌ„ the
name of reformed Christians on the other side that either is such in deede as of the vulgare and ignorant people they are called But why are Protestantes all hereâ—ikes desirous to be called Catholikes but that they which in deede haue the name are also in deede euermore true Catholikes and so the name alone sufficient to moue any man Who euer heard such an asse bâ—aye as though there were no difference whether they haue the name rightfully or wrongfully truely or falsely In all the Easte Church who are called Catholikes but the Grecians Which for many hundreth yeares haue bene separated from the Communion of the Latines and of them are compted for heretikes and Schimatikes But Augustine de vera rel Cap. 7. writeth more plainly for the name of Catholike Tenenda est nobis Christiana c. Wee muste holde the Christian religion and the companie of that Church which is Catholike and called Catholike not onely of her owne but also of her enemies For will they nill they the heretikes also and Schismatikes them selues when they talke not with their own but with strangers they call the Catholike Church nothing but the Catholike Church For they can not else bee vnderstanded excepte they discerne her by that name by which shee is called of the whole world This therefore quoth Bristow is proued they to be Catholikes that Catholikes are called When as Augustine saith we must hold y t church which both is catholike is so called Bristowe the Papist is called by the name of a Cittie in England theresore Bristowe the Papist is in deede a citie in England This therefore is proued that to bee Bristow that Bristow is called But how proueth he that they be called Catholikes The worlde forsooth beareth them witnesse For beside some ignorant fellowe in Germanie that calleth them so or rather not meaning to brable in the streat yealdeth to that tearme not because hee thinketh them to bee so but because he knoweth the Papist which asketh for the Catholike Church seeketh not the Catholike Church in deed but the Popish Church falsely called Catholike beside I say some tankarde bearer boye or gyrle that hath mâ—de such a unswere to Bristowe as he trauelled in Germanie he asketh when in printed bookes they bee called Catholikes whether the reader knoweth not who is meaned Yes verily if the bookes bee written by papistes oâ— such as take neither part But he would â—now further why we mâ—ke name theÌ„ call them Cacolikes or Cartholikes I suppose whosoeuer mocketh them it is because they falsely â—surpe that name which they are not woâ—thie to beare and not because they bee such and the name euill yet againe he asketh why Luther iâ— Germanie did cause the Creede to be turned I beleeue the Christian Church and not I beleeue the Catholike Church Mine answere is I beleeue that Bristowe belyeth Luther for any such change of the creede although he might well expouÌ„d the true Catholike Church by the name of the true Christian Church But Iewel confirmeth the name of Catholike to be theirs or els what meaneth he to entitle his replie Against the Romane religion which of late hath ben accompted Catholike Alas poore Bristow hast thou no better reason to proue the Popish Church to be Catholike but that Iewel saith it hath bene accompted Catholike and proueth that it hath ben falsely accompted so Yes sir not he only but also Pope Humfrey in his Legend of sains Iewel confesseth vs to be Catholikes where he saith that Pontacus erred when he wrot that onely lay men neither learned nor Catholikes were moderators in the disputation at Westminster Why Bristow are you not ashamed to take the name of the lorde your god the Pope in vaine And because Pontacus complaineth that catholikes were not moderators doth Humfrey therefore acknowledge papistes to be Catholikes yea forsooth he doth so and also coÌ„firmeth the storie of Pontacus when he saith Catholikes were present but in the next worde he expoundeth what catholikes namely papistes And som of theÌ„ were also moderators at the least wise one namely D. Heath then occupying the place of the Bishop of Yorke therefore not onely lay Lords vnlearned heretiks as this lewd losel and vnlearned dogbolt trayterous papist I am bold with him because he is so malepert with the learned godly nobilitie of England most slaunderously and maliciously affirmeth were only moderators of that disputation but some of y e Popish faction were not only present but presidents of that action beside all the rest of the popish prelates which then were of the Parliament for information whereof that conference was appointed But Humfrey saith moreouer that the chiefe cause of all euils and as it were the Troian horse within the walles of the Church hath beene hitherto a Catholike defection from the holy scripture and especially your papistrie Therefore saith Bristow hee acknowledgeth vs to be Catholikes In deed you be catholike that is to say vniuersal reuolters froÌ„ y e holy scriptures if that title please you reioyce of it spare not You be Catholike heretiks that is heretikes not in one or two articles of religion but in all in as much as you denie the office of Christe vpon which is grounded all Christiaâ—itie The name of Catholike of it selfe is indifferent to good and euil euen as the name of vniuersall is therefore in our Creede we say not simplie I beleeue the Catholike Church but the holy Catholike Church And therefore D Humfrey in calling you pseudocatholici false Catholikes sheweth what Catholikes he meaneth you to be not members of the holy Catholike Church of godly Christiss but pillers of the false and counterfeit Church of malignant herenkes And whereas you say you haue hearde Humfrey in his fond and vnlearned lectures at Oxford call them pseudocatholiâ—i â—home Faustus the Maniche did entwite for honouring the memorie of Martyrs first you take vpon you like the sowe to entwite Minerua as it is in y e latine prouerb which might better be borne withall in a man of such learning and arte as you shew if you did not also slander belie him as the diuell doth all the saintes of God For although I neuer heard any of his lecturs yet I dare affirme he neuer accompted Augustine and â—â—â—â— godly Catholiks of his time for false Catholikes although hee coulde not allowe of all that Augustine hath written and mainteyned Wherefore it is cleare hee calleth not Augustine and the Catholikes of his time but you Papistes of our time false Catholikes and shewed that to you did truly agree that which Faustus did falsely charge y e true Catholikes with all y t is the turning of Idols into Martirs For Faustus did slander not as you traÌ„slateit onely entwite the true Catholikes for worshipping the Martirs as â—â—â—â— pagans worshipped their Idols Calumniatâ—â—nobis Faustus c. Faustus doth slander vs saith Augustine Againe Non taÌ„ me mouetut hic Calumniae
was accused by Tertullus Act. 24. to be a chiefe Capteine of the heresie of the Nazarites whereunto he answered This â— confesse that according to that way which they call heresie doe I worship the God of my Fathers That heretique which did write the vnperfect worke vpon S. Matthewes Gospel which goeth vnder the name of S. Chrysostome in Cap. â—4 Hom. 48. thus writeth of â—â—â—â— true Christians HÄ™resis Homoousianorum noÌ„ solùm Christi ecclâ—siae aduersatur sed omnibus haeresibus non similiter sapientibus The heresie of the Homousians is not only aduersarie to the Church of Christ but also to all other heresies that bee not of their minde Here note that the Arrians did giue a newe name to the true Christians in respect of their doctrine wherof they were not ashamed For Homousians signifieth them that acknowledged the Father and the Sonne to be of the same substance And ouer this note also that the Arrian heretique did brag as much of the name of the Church then as the Popish heretiques do nowe Basil in his Epist. 73. testifieth the same of the Arrians CÄ™terum Nicaenam fidem calumniantur nósque Homousiastas probrosè vocant propterea quod in ea fide fil um Dei vnigenituÌ„ cum Deo ac patre Homousion confitemur Moreouer they slaunder the faith of the Nicen Counsel and call vs reprochfully Homoousians bycause that in that fayth we confesse the onely begotten sonne of God to be of the same substance with the Father But Bristow sayth it is a rule that the ancient Fathers alwayes gaue the people to knowe Heretikes thereby if they had any such name Hieronyme Aduers LuciferiaÌ„ sayth Sicubi audieris c. If any where thou heare theÌ„ which are sayd to be of Christ to be tearmed not of our Lorde Iesus Christe but of some other as Massionites Valentinians Montenses Camputes knowe thou that they are not the Church of Christ but the Sinagog of Antichrist But he belyeth Hierome for he giueth not the name only as a sufficieÌ„t note but before the words by Bristow cited he writeth In illa esse ecclesia permanendum quae ab apostolis fundata vsque ad diem hanc durat We must tarie in that Church which being founded by the Apostles continueth vnto this day And immediately after Bristowes pretended rule Ex hoc enim ipso quod postea constituti sunt eos se esse iudicant quos futuros apostolus praenunciauit For euen by this that they are set afterward they shewe themselues to be the same whome the Apostle foreshewed to come By these wordes it is euident that Hieronymes rule runneth not onely vppon the name howsoeuer it beginneth but of the late spring of Heretikes whose doctrine being not founded by the Apostles hath a later beginning after them The names of Franciscanes Dominicanes Benedictines c. whiche certayne sects of Papistes giue vnto themselues Bristow sayth they haue not for any speciall doctrine brought in by their Patrones and therefore they be no names of Heretikes But I reply that beside that diuers of these â—ectes distent in poyntes of doctrine as the Dominicanes and Franciscanes aboute Originall siâ—ne And to omitte the â—uelphes and Gibellines dissenting about the authoritie of the Pope and the Emperour the greatest question in Popery euen those sectes of Benedictines Augustines Dominicanes c. did al take their names eyther of that man or that order whiche they held to be the perfection of Religion consisting not in keeping the commaundementes of God as Bristowe like a wyse man affirmeth whiche all Christian men ought to endeuour but in keeping the traditions and constitutions of men standing in garments in meates in gesture in ceremonies outward obseruatioÌ„s wherfore they can not so lightly be acquitted of Heresie euen by Hieronymies owne rule and last of all by the example of the name of Rechabites who had their name of their family and not of any Sect in perfection The name of Papists saith Bristow is lately put vpoÌ„ vs by heretiks the like say we of the names of Lutheranes c. put vpon vs by them The saying of Augustine De vtilitate credendi Cap. 7. toucheth vs not that Heretikes dare not denye their names by whiche they are called for we vtterly denye all names by which we are called in respect of our Religion to be drawen from men and aunswere onely to the name of Christians And as for the name of Catholikes which Bristow maketh all one with the name of Christians being added to the name of Christians to distinguish true Christians from Heretikes which are counterfet Christians we do embrace it but if from this righte meaning of the name it bee drawen to signifye a people whiche by only glorying in that name despise al true Christianitie grounded vppon the holy and diuine Scriptures as Bristow seemeth to make it then is it no better thaÌ„ a name of Heretikes and so the name of Catholikes boasted of by them that refuse to be members of y e holy Catholike Church turneth to their owne reproch euen as the name of the Apostolikes was to them whiche bragged of the name of the Apostles but were indeed no true followers of y e Apostles no more than the Papistes be true Catholikes In the eyght Demaund he would know why we call them not Gregorians or Leonians of some one Pope but Papists of the generall name of the Pope I answer bicause they mainteine not one heresie only of one maÌ„ but a general heresie and Apostasie from Christ wherof the Pope is y e head whom no more foolishly then falsly Bristowe saith to haue bene alwayes since the Apostles time If he presse vs that we make not dangerous to acknowledge the name of Protestants I confesse y t when nothing is vnderstod by that name but men which professe that true doctrine which we doe we greatly striue not for the name S. Paul him selfe openly acknowledged y t he was a Phause when nothing was vnderstoodâ— by the name but one that beleeued the resurrection of the dead although y t terme of Pharisee was otherwise the name of a sect of heretiques which mainteined many damnable errours from which the Apostle was most free Last of all Augustine in Breui Coll. cum Donatist Coll 3. dici counteth all these three motiues of the name of Catholoques Heretiques and Protestants to be but dilatorie shifts of the Heretiques not sound arguments of the Christian Catholiques Vbi cognitor cùm dixisset hoc Catholiâ—i probare debebuat ortus est iterù moratorius conflictus de Catholico nomine Donatistarum Caecilianistaris When the Iudge or Commissioner had said This the Catholiques ought to proue there arose againe a dilatorie conflict about the name of Catholique and of the Donatistes and of the Caecilianistes The Donatistes which were heretiques chalenged to them selues the name of Catholiques as the Papistes do against vs the true Christians they called Heretiques and
Caecilianistes as the Papistes call vs. Heretiques Protestants Lutherans c. but these were but dilatorie deuises of Heretiques to auoyd the true trial which as the Catholikes in the forenamed conference confessed was onely by y e Scriptures The 4. motiue is the 38. demaund Olde heresies Arrians againe aliue in Protestantes Protistants be Pelagians in denying Baptisme to be necessarie for the saluation of Infants Her etiques are not Christians Whatsoeuer was heresie in times past saith Bristow is heresie now also some opinions holden by the Protestants were heresie in times past Ergo they be heresies now also so Protestants be Heretiques and no Christian but almost Apostataes But I deny that any opinion holden by vs was euer Heresie Yes saith Bristow the denying of prayer and oblation for the dead was accounted heresie in Aâ—rius both by Epiphanius and Augustinus True it is they both following the errour of their times account it for an errour in Aâ—rius but it doth not followe that bicause they accounted it so that it was so in deed seing neither of them both doth proue it to be an errour by the authoritie of the holy Scriptures but by the corrupt vsage of their Churches which had turned thankesgiuing for the dead into prayers and oblation for the dead And yet the same Epiphanius denyeth fasting and almes to bee profitable to the dead wherefore the Papistes do now hold the contrarie Contra Melchisedec sumus Haer. 53. Hee accounteth the hauing of the images of Christ and the Apostles one of the heresies of the Gnostikes Haer. 27. many such like things which the Papistes defend for Catholike The like doth Augustine wherefore let Bristow aduise him selfe whether it be a good argument Epiphanius and Augustine accounted prayer for the dead to be an errour Ergo it was an heresie in deede For an other example of old heresies by vs recyted he bringeth in That cruell heresie of theirs against the necessitie of childrens baptisme wherin they agree with the Pelagians through which they suffer many thousand poore soules to perish which can not helpe them selues while they promise them both life euerlasting and the kingdome of heauen without baptisme whereas the Pelagians promised life euerlasting only Who would thinke that this slaunderous heretique had liued so long in England as hee did before he became fugitiue which lyeth so impudeÌ„tly without all colour or shewe of trueth Was there euer any of vs heard to preach of baptisme as not necessarie for infaÌ„ts if they might obteine it according to the institution of Christ. But contrariwise that it is a cruell errour of the Papists which condeÌ„neth infants who being preuented by death can not obteyne the outward Sacrament yet hath this error Augustine and Cypriane to vpholde it But if Augustine and Cypriane neuer erred no not about the doctrine of the Sacramentes then let their authoritie defend the Papists But when Cypriane denyed the Baptisme of Heretikes to be any thing auayleable how many thousand soules both of yong and olde dyd he condemne And wheÌ„ Augustine with Pope Innocent holdeth the communion to be as necessarie for the saluation of Infants as Baptisme how many huÌ„dred thousand soules doth he condemne or the Papistes destroy which denye the communioÌ„ vnto them Cyprian lib. 1. Epi. 6. Magno Augustin Contra duas Epist. Pelagi lib. 2. Cap. 4. where he accuseth the Pelagians as well for affirming the Communion not to be necessarie for Infants as for houlding that Baptisme was not needefull for them In the 38. Demaunde he chargeth vs with denying prescript fasting dayes which is falle when they be prescribed by the Churche of God and not vsurped of superstition and opinion of merite He chargeth vs further with denying of Free Will and quoteth in the margent August Tom. 6. De fide coÌ„tra Manichaeus Cap. 9 10. where in deede Augustine against the Manichees affirmeth the Free Will of man but in his retractations he sheweth that euen then hee vnderstoode it of the state of Man before his fall and therefore the Pelagians whiche were maynteyners of Free Will to remayne in man since the fall of Adam did slaunderouslie vsurp those his sayings against him and the truth euen as the Papists do now Cùm autem de libera voluntate rectè faciendi loquimur de illa scilicet in quae homo factus est loquimur Ecce tam longè antequam Pelagiana haeresis extitisseâ—â—sic disputanimus velut iam contra illos disputaremus Whensoeuer we speake of the Free Will of man to do well we speake of that Will in whiche man was made Behold so long before the Pelagian heresie arose we haue disputed eueÌ„ so as though we had disputed against them Retract lib. 1. cap. 9. Now iudge whether if Papistes or we be more like to the Pelagians He chargeth vs moreouer to hold against the merite of single life quoting Aug. haer 82. with Iouiaian which is false for as Augustine vnderstandeth by merite worthines or excellency we acknowledge that the state of virginitie is more excellent then of matrimony in such respects as the Apostle preferreth it 1. Cor. 7. Last of all he chargeth vs with holding against the vowe of single life quoting Aug. Retract lib. 2. c. 22. where there is no word of any vowe and much lesse of vowing a single life in them that can not liue an honest chast life without mariage There is mention of certaine sanctimoniales holy and deuout women of whose chastity was no suspition which leauing their purpose of virginitie were perswaded by Iouinian to marie Not we therefore haue reuiued any old heresie but the Papists haue continued many old errors reuiued many old heresies of the Pharises Pâ—â—â—gians Anthropomorphites added many new of their owne such as were neuer heâ—â—d of in the primitiue Church for six hundred yeares after Christ as hath often bene shewed at large The 4. and 5. motiues are included in the 10. demaund Miracles dogmaticaâ—â— a marke of true doctrine for the sacrifice of the Masse for purgatory Deuills expelled with a Masse by a Priest of S. Augustines who was of our religion S. Bede of our religion Masse sayd for the dead oftentimes to redemption both of body and soule The saerament of the altare sticked by the Iewes bleedeth Mâ—rkes and mâ—nasteries Visions for our religion An Englishe woman miraculously cured of late by the blessed sacrament Holy water Masse confirmed by miracles in Afrike Englande and Brabant Bristow diuideth miracles into dogmaticall and personall Of the first sort he setteth this conclusion VVhosoeuer haue at any time set them selues against any doctrine confirmed by miracle they haue bene against the truth There can to this no instans be giuen our doctrine which they resist hath bene confirmed by miracles therefore plaine it is that they are enemies of the truth Doe you heare this shameles beast say there can be no instans giuen against his proposition When y e Lord
testimonijs If this onely were the question which or where the Church were that they woulde pleade nothing at all by publike actes of men but only by the testimonies of the holy Scriptures Yet sayth Bristow the Apostles were of our religion because Chrysostom sayth Ad pop Antioch that it was decreed by the Apostles that in the dreadfull mysteries a remeÌ„brance should be made of the dead This sayth Bristow was masse for the dead How prayers for the dead came in how at leÌ„gth sacrifice of the masse was applied vnto the dead I haue shewed sufficiently against Allen lib. 2. ca. 5. If we should admit all thinges to be ordeyned of the Apostles which some of the olde writers doe ascribe to their traditions wee should receiue many thinges that euen the Papistes them selues doe not obserue As that it is a wicked thing to fast on SoÌ„day or to pray kneling that oblations are to be made for mens birth dayes c. which with diuerse other superstitions Tertullian fathereth vpon the tradition of the Apostles as wel as oblation for the dead De coron nul hearing therefore such manifest vntruths are fathered vpon the Apostles tradition by most auÌ„cient writers what certainty can we haue of their tradition without their owne writing Againe S. Hierom saith it was a tradition of the Apostles to fast 40 daies in the yeare If this be true then is the popish story false that maketh Telesphorus Bishop of Rome author of that lenten fast Eusebius sheweth the great diuersitie of fasting before Easter li. 5 cap. 26. saying that some fasted but 1 day some 2 daies some more some 40 howres of day night this diuersitie proueth â—â—â—â— Hierom vntruly ascribeth y t tradition to the Apostles which should haue bene kept vniformely if it had any institution of the Apostles Cyprian sayth it was our Lordes tradition that the wine in the communion should be mingled w t water But the Scripture saith not so S. Paule w c deliuered that w c he receiued of Christ saith not so And yet CypriaÌ„ coÌ„teÌ„deth principally for the vse of wine in the cup against the watry heretikes that vsed onely water It is a coÌ„mon thinge with the auncient writers to defend euery ceremony mhich was vsed in their time by tradition of the Apostles But the chiefe matter is the masse which sayth Bristow S. Paule one of our religion made I maruell whether Bristow writeth this for fooles to beleue or for wise men to laughe at When they them selues make Gregory or Scholasticus or I can not tell whom auctor of the canon and when they write howe euery peece was added by what Pope what impudence is it to say that S. Paule made the Masse and to call Augustine to witnesse that which he good man did neuer thinke of and much lesse write Whose wordes Bristow hath mangled and falsified for thus he citeth them Ep. 118. cap 6. Totum illum agendi ordinem quem uniuersum per orbem seruat Ecclesia ab ipso ordinatum esse That by him was ordeyned this order of doing which through the whole world the Church doth keepe in doing of Masse The wordes of Augustine speaking of receiuing the communion fasting or before all other meates are these vpon the wordes of S. Paule Caetera cum venero ordinabo Vnde intelligi datur quia multum erat vt in epistola totum illum agendi ordinem insinuaret quem universa per orbem seruat Ecclesia ab ipso ordinatum esse quod nulla morum diuersitate variatur Other thinges will I set in order when I come Whereby it is giuen vs to be vnderstood because it was much that in an epistle he should set forth that whole order of doing which the whole Church throughout the world doth obserue that this thinge was ordeyned by him which is varied by no diuersitie of maners vnderstanding the custome of receyuing the communion fasting which he sayd before was generally obserued in all places But of ordeyning the masse there is no title You see now howe â—â—â—â— Apostles especially S. Paule is of Bristowes religion beside ChrysostoÌ„ Hierom Cypâ—iaÌ„ The 10 and 11 motiues are confusely conteâ—ned in the 34 demaund The Courches iudgement is alwayes infallible VVhen by Iewell the Church of God dyed Donatistes and Luciferians aliue againe in Protestants S. Augustine and S. Hierome were of our religion Protestants in their owne conscience be against the Church which is euerlasting and visible No scripture against the Catholiks but all for them Christ to be loued for the authoritie of his Church for which there be playner prophecyes then for Christ him selfe Although we should graunt the Churches iudgemeÌ„t to be alwaies infallible yet would we neuer graunt the popish churches authoritye which falleth so manifestly from the word of God thereby sheweth her self to be the malignant Church Synagogue of Satan That the Church of Christ hath alwaies ben from y e beginning shal continue vnto the end of the world we all confesse and defende Wherefore it is an impudent slaunder of Bristow to saye that by Iewell the Church dyed within six hundreth yeares after Christ. And that the Donatistes and Luciferians are reuiued in Protestants For we nether say that the Church is perished out of all places except Africa as the Donatistes nor that it is become a stewes with the Luciferians But the Papistes are more like to the Donatistes which say the Church is perished out of all partes of the world except Europe and in steede of the Church they defende a stewes and sincke of all dolatrie superstition vngodlines Therefore Augustine and Hierom be not of Bristowes religion for condemning those heretikes to whome Bristow and his Papistes are more like then the Protestants Nether doe Protestants in their conscience thinke the Church of Christ to be against them because Castalio an Anabaptist translateth Ecclesiae the Churche into reipublicae the common wealth or because many vse the name of congregation which is the true signification of this word Ecclesia as no man will deny that is not past all shame That the Churche is euerlasting and visible to them that haue suche eyes as the Churche is that is spirituall we neuer deny But that it is visible to the world alwayes that shall neuer be proued That no Scripture is against the Catholikes we graunt but that many Scriptures are against the Papists it hath bene more then a thousand times proued That the church geueth testimonie to Christ that the prophecies of the churches euerlasting continuance are plaine euident It is no question betwene vs. But that the synagoge of Romish Papists is the church of Christ to whoÌ„ such credit or reuerence is to be geuen that I say if Bristow woulde burst for anger against the Protestantes he shall neuer be able to proue The 11. motiue The practise or custome of the church of God S. Paule and S. Augustine of our
religion Exorcisme exufflation in baptisme Pelagians aliue againe in Protestants Baptisme necessary for saluation of children ChauÌ„ge of religion neuer made by us Altares prayer for the dead used alwayes Reall presence of Christ in the SacrameÌ„t Pilgrimage reliques of Saints S. Hierom of our religioÌ„ Miracles for reliques Churches coÌ„firmed by miracles VVhat an impudeÌ„t atteÌ„pt is chauÌ„ge of religioÌ„ Of the churches practise custome I say euen as of the churches iudgement that how much soeuer it be to be esteemed yet is not the Popish church the Catholike church of Christ but an apostasie schisme from it Neither is it sufficieÌ„t for Bristow to say y e Popish church practiseth many things that the auÌ„cieÌ„t church of Christ practised therfore it is the true church of Christ except he can proue that the Popish churchteacheth practiseth all nothing els but that which the ancieÌ„t church of Christ did teach practise In stede whereof Bristow can allege nothing but certeine spots wrinkles of the elder church which the Popish church doth embrace hauing almost nothing els like vnto it But let vs see how substantially he proueth out of S. Paule S. Augustine that the churches custome and practise is an infallible rule of truth First S. Paule saith he 1. Cor. 11. after many reasons for the vncomelines of womeÌ„s going bareheaded recoyleth to this inuincible forte Si quis c. But if any man seeme to be contentious we haue no such custome for women to pray vncouered nor the church of God See how this impudent asse to stablish his ground of custome is not ashamed to falsifie the wordes of holy Scripture S. Paul saith if any man seme to be desirous of contention we haue no such custome nor the churches of God whereby he meaneth plainly that it is not the custome of the Apostles nor of the church of God to be contentious about such small matters of external behauiour May we herof inferre that whatsoeuer the church at any time hath vsed is allowable to be vsed alwaies S. Aug. Ep. 118. Ian. is cited by Bristow but corruptly Si quid tota per orbeÌ„ frequentat ecclesia hoc quia it a â—acienduÌ„ sit disputare insoleÌ„tissimae insaniae est If y e whole church do vse any thing only to call it in question whether that thing should be so don is a poinct of most prowd or most straÌ„ge madnes But Augustine is not so generall for his words are siquid horuÌ„ if any of these things speaking of ceremonial obseruations as of receiuing the coÌ„munion fasting c. be vniuersally vsed of all the church when it is not coÌ„trary to the word of God it were madnes to striue about it For in the first place Augustine setteth the auctority of Gods word secoÌ„dly the custome of the vniuersal church being not contrary to Gods word last of all the customs of particular churches which are varied according to the diuersities of coÌ„tries natioÌ„s Now for these matters in coÌ„trouersy betwene vs I answer as Augustine doth to the questioÌ„ of Ianuarius immediatly after the words cited by Bristow Sed neque hoc neque illud est in eo quod tu queris But neither is this nor that in the question that thou propoundest that is neither the practise of the vniuersall church nor the auctority of the Scriptures serueth to decide this question but it is the third kind So say I to Bristow nether the auctority of the holy Scriptures nor the practise of the vniuersall church can be shewed for these things which thou defeÌ„dest but they are of a third kind that is contrary to the word of God and the practise of the most auncient Primitiue church But Augustine sayth Bristow proueth that infants are borne in sinne against the Pelagians which are reuiued in ProtestaÌ„ts by the customes practise of the church which was to baptise theÌ„ for remission of sinnes And this practise he called the waight of truth a most plaine bignes of truth The slauÌ„der that PelagiaÌ„s are aliue in ProtestaÌ„ts by denying children to be borne in sinne I wil no more esteme then the barking of a dogge against the moone But where he sayth that Augustine by the only practise of the church coÌ„uinceth the Pelagians calling the practise poÌ„dus veritatis c it is a shameles lye for his words are in the same Epist. 105. Circunstiâ—antur enim diâ—inarum auctoritate lectionuÌ„ antiquitus tradito retcÌ„to firmo Ecclesiae ritu in baptismate paruulorum For they are compassed about both by the auctoritie of the diuine readings also by the stedfast practise of the church deliuered of old reteined in the baptisme of infants But he vrgeth them with exorcisme and exsufflation which were there vsed in the church I confesse but their meaning by exufflatioÌ„ exorcisme he defendeth out of the Scriptures And who can blame Augustine if after he haue mightely confuted the Pelagians out of the Scriptures to shew the nouelty of their heresie he alleaged the perpetuall practise of the church which she alwaies had alwaies shall haue in praying for the conuersion of infidels for the perseueraÌ„ce of the faithful in goodnes This is all one saith Bristow as if we should reason against these heretikes out of priuate mens beades out of the publike prayers which are in the portuse or Breuiary or in the missall and such like bokes The deuill it is except Bristow can proue that such beades and prayers were euer vsed in the church For Augustine sayth de bono perseuer ca. 22 Atque vtinam tardi corde infirmi qui non possunt velnon dum possunt Scriptur as vel earum expositiones intelligere sic audrient vel non audirent in hac quaestione disputationes nostras vt magis intuer entur orationes suas quas semper habuit habebit ecclesia ab exordijs suis donec finiatur hoc seculum And I would they that are dull of hart weake which can not or as yet can not vnderstand the Scriptures or the expositions of them would so heare or not heare our disputations in this question that they would rather consider their owne prayers which the church alwaies hath had shall haue from her beginning vntil this world be ended You see plainly that Augustine ioyneth to the auctority of the holy Scriptures the perpetuall practise of the church which hath continued from the beginning and shall remayne vnto the ende Which seeing it can not be shewed for Poperie the argument of the practise of the church serueth not for Popery Bristowe proceedeth and passeth ouer the example of Christian women which killed them selues rather then they would haue their bodies abused yet notwithstanding by the churches iudgement were honored as martyrs To which I aunswere the church considered their minde which was good not the fact which was euell At last he commeth to affirme that the
Popish church neuer made any chauÌ„ge of religion Which is a shamelesse assertion although he say that none of his aduersaries is able to charge them with any alteration since Augustines time For to omitte the whole scope of doctrine cleane peruerted I will obserue only the practise of the church in Augustines time about the Lords supper In that time the lay people did receaue the communion in both kindes and one thousand yeres almost after which of late the Papistes haue altered In Augustines time the communion was geuen to infantes which the Papistes doe not obserue therefore they can not bragge of perpetuall practise and deny all chaunge in religion made by them But Bristow not content with this vayne bragge will go farther and shewe that whatsoeuer they haue vsed sithe S. Augustines time was obserued euen so in all that time that passed betwene S. Paule and S. Augustine Is not this a master of impudence to promise that which all the worlde of learned men doth know to be impossible to be performed and whereof the promiser himselfe can bring no profe at all but his bare worde For he beginneth with exorcisme and exsufflation which as it was vsed in Augustines time vnnecessarily so it appeareth by Cyprian that was long before him that it was vsed for the casting out of the deuill in them whose bodies he did sensibly possesse lib. 3. cap. 7. ad Magnum Of the sacrifice of the Masse worshipping of the Sacrament and oblation for the deade as Bristow referreth the reader to his fift and seuenth motiues so doe I to mine aunsweres vnto the same Concerning the vse of the altare howe truly he sayth I referre the reader to mine answere of D. Heskins lib. 3. cap. 31. The other fonde reason of the practise of the church that children were taught to beleue the reall presence of Christ in the Sacrament for which he citeth Aug. de Tim. lib. 3. cap. 10. which the poore man borowed out of Allens booke of Purgatory is discussed answered in my confutation of the same treatise lib. 2 cap. 9. Then followeth going on pilgrimage to holy places worshipping of reliques prayer vnto Sainctes vsed as he sayth in Augustines time For worshipping of reliques and praying to Sainctes he citeth Aug de câ—re pro mor. Who concludeth that to be buried at some memorie of the martyrs doth in this poynct only auayle the dead that the affection of supplication commending him also to the patronage of the martyr may be encreased That this was no perpetuall practise of the church to desire the intercession of Sainctes it is manifest by this that Augustine him selfe dare affirme nothing certeinly whether or how the Saincts may heare our prayers Affirming that this question passeth the power of his vnderstanding cap. 16. But by the name of memory Bristow will vnderstande relique because it is somtime so vsed which is no strong argument But admitte it were so how can he proue either that practise to haue bene continued from S. Paule to S. Augustine or the same opinion of reliques to haue ben in Augustines time which is mainteined in the Popish church that there was superstitious peregrinatioÌ„ vnto Ierusalem c. vsed in S. Hieroms time it is as true as that the same was reproued of him Ep. ad Paul If God shewed any miracles at the deade bodyes of the Martyrs to confirme that religion for which they suffred against the Gentiles it foloweth not that the reliques of dead Saints are to be worshiped kissed saught vnto by pilgrimage c but most absurd is it that Bristow would haue Hierome by ofteÌ„ entering into the Cryptos or vaultes of churches at Rome to signifie that he went a Pilgrimage Hierome was not so grose to accounte walking about the Citie to be a Preregrination But what is so leaden or blockishe which these doltish Papists will not auouch for the mainteinaunce of their trompery Last of all he chargeth the Protestantes with an impudent attempt in making such an vniuersall chaunge of the whole face of Religion which none of the olde Heretikes did before theÌ„ That we are like to none of the olde Heretikes we like our selues neuer the worse but as concerning the vniuersall chaunge it was necessary in reformation where there was an vniuersal Apostacie For any alteratioÌ„ that we haue made the Papistes dare not affirme for shame that wee haue brought any thing into the Church which ought not to be vsed by the worde of God neither are they able to proue that we haue omitted anything which by the holy scripture is necessaryly required To coÌ„clude you see that the practise of the church except it be perpetuall euen from the first beginning is no Motiue by Augustines iudgement and that Bristowe though hee hath bragged much thereof for some superstitions vsed of olde yet he hath brought nothing to proue that they haue beene from the beginning The 12. Motiue is the 28. demaunde Sea apostolike The communion of the Bishop of Rome to be kept of all Christians The Romain Church is the Catholike Church Saint Augustine of our religion Such as are condemned by the Sea Apâ—stolike are holden for Heretikes Pelagians aliue againe in Protestants Emperours and other peeres of our Religion as also their first conuersion S. Theodoret Chrisostom and Hierome of our Religion Antichristes side against the Pope Protestants doe decay and shall come to nothing VVhosoeuer sayth Bristow at any time were for their doing or teaching condemned by the definitiue sentence of the Sea Apostolike and stubbernly condemned the same they were Scismatikes or heretikes And contrariwise all Catholike men haue kept them selues in the vnitie of that sea and if for any cause they were out of it labouring to be reconciled againe or if they had beene but suspected neuer ceasing vntill they had made their purgation Moreouer he saith there can none example be alleadged to the contrary but innumerable for it It is not denyed but the Church and Sea of Rome while it continued in true catholike Religion was much reuerenced euery where so farre at least as the Romane empire did extende But when any Bishop of that sea went out of the way either in scisme or herefie they were not followed but resisted condemned For Example When Victor bishop of Rome like a proude scismatike did take vpon him to excommunicate all the Churches of the East for celebration of Easter they did not onely contemne his censure but many Bishops also did sharply rebuke him as Irenaeus Bishop of Lyons other Euse. li. 5. ca. 25. WheÌ„ Liberius bishop of Rome relented vnto the Arrians he was forsaken of the true Christians and accounted an Heretike Hier. in Catal. When Bonifacius Zosimus and Celestinus Bishops of Rome would chalenge appellations out of Africa contrary to the decrees out of the councels of Africa by counterfaiting a Canon of the Nicene councell they were resisted by all the Bishops of Africa and the trechery
This thing sayth D. Humfrey he did not with his wil but yet he did it not without a cause that he might strike you through with the testimonie of your fathers as it were with your owne sworde For it had beene manlie for a Christian man to say Thus sayth the Lorde It had bene sufficient to haue layed agaynst you Your doctrine is contrarie to the Scripture For it is the question of men possessed with deuills to say What haue we to doe with thee Iesus thou sonne of Dauid But it is an interrogation of the Saynctes What haue we to doe with our fathers with fleshe and bloode You heare by these wordes what a daungerous opinion he holdeth of the fathers and of the Saynctes in the calender namelie that the fathers are no farther to be followed then they followed the holie Scriptures and that the Sainctes either liuing or deade whether they be in the calender or no deny their fathers as fleshe and bloode if they be in any respect an hinderance for them to obey the will of their father in heauen These are the perillous opinioÌ„s that Bristow brableth against falsifying his words by ommission depâ—auing his meaning by false surmising But Bristow hath yet an other reason to proue the fathers to be in all poinctes of their side If in all poinctes sayth he they be not with the Protestants then vndoubtedly in all poynctes they be with vs. And what is the reason of this monstruous conclusion There was neuer but one true religion As though none can be of true religion but such as erreth in nothing But who would spend incke and paper to confute such vaine reasonings The 15. motiue conteineth the 15. 16. and 20. demaundes Martyrs S. Stephen of our religion Pilgrimage Churches confirmed by vision Mâ—racles for reliques and for necessitie of childrens baptisâ—ne Confirming of children the custome and practise of Gods church Foxes martyrs Miracâ—es for our martyrs Al martyrs that euer suffred fot the testimony of true religion since Abel were numbred of one true church euen of the same that we are But Bristow would binde vs to the Saincts in the calender termed by L. Humfrey SaÌ„ctâ—li which terme yea a worse might serue a number of theÌ„ Notwithstanding so many of those caleÌ„ddred canonized Sainctes as be Saincts in heauen and not firebrands in hell were of that church which is builded vpon the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles Iesus Christ being the head corner stone And therefore it is a foolish request that we should name any one of theÌ„ which was of our faith But it is a pleasant pastime to heare howe Bristow proueth S. Stephen to be of his religion It is manifest sayth he that he is of the religion of the rest of the martyrs meaning Papistes because it is proued that he as well as they had heard helped theÌ„ which prayed to them which worshipped their reliques went a pilgrimage to their churches he specially reuealing by vision the place where his reliques were hidden with the reliques of S. Gamaliel S. Nicodemus vnto one Lucian a Priest of â—erusalem which wrote in Greeke the history of his inuention To this inuention I answere that it is an inuention of the deuill either by meanes of him that counterfaited the vision or by sending a stronge illusion so â— say generally of all such miracles and visions as are alleaged to proue any doctrine contrarie to the holy Scriptures As for the vanitie of this epistell of Lucian it be wrayeth it selfe in that he maketh Gamaliel the Pharizee so great a Sainct who for any thing that we can read in the holy Scripture was neuer a Christian. S. Paule in the 22. of the Actes appealeth to the knowledge of the Iewes that he was brought vp in Iudaisme vnder Gamaliel which if after he had bene conuerted to Christianity it shoulde haue bene greatly suspected that S. Paule had bene noselled vp by him and not conuerted by a vision from heauen as his intent was to shew From this counterfait stuffe of Lucians epistell he sendeth vs to the new founde sermons of Augustine to whom he would get credit by Augustines owne report De ciuit 22. ca. 8. but in vaine for Augustine speaketh not of any such sermons but only when report of a miracle was brought vnto him that he went vnto the church spake a few things of the matter And touching all such miracles as he reporteth of Stephen his conclusion is this God was glorified by them and the faith for which Stephen died was magnified But of worshipping of reliques pilgrimage c. there is no mention and yet that chapter of miracles as Ludouicus Viues doth confesse is notably corrupted as appeared to him by ancient copies The conclusion was Quid erat in cordibus exultantium nisi fides Christi pro qua Stephani sanguis fusus est What was in the hartes of them that reioysed but the faith of Christ for which the blood of Stephen was shed The miracle which Bristow reporteth out of the 38. Serm. in diuus 96. in noua editione to proue the necessitie of baptisme for infants the practise of the church for confirmation of children praying to S. Stephen is an impudeÌ„t fiction as appeareth manifestly by this that he calleth a sucking babe Catechumenu one that was instructed in Christian religion which could not possibly be before he was of yeares of capacity Secondly the infants ofChristian parents in Augustins time were baptised as sone as they were borne taried not vntil they were Catechumeni that is enstructed Thirdly the woman in this fable praying to S. Stephen perswadeth him to know the purpose of her hart which the word of God affirmeth to be known only to God As impudent as the deuiser of that fable was is Bristow who citeth out of Augustine De â—nitat eccles cap. 16. a few words rent a sunder from the rest coÌ„cerning miracles which the whole discourse sheweth to be plainly against him as you may read in this aunswere in the 8. motiue of visions After this followeth a comparison of Foxes martyrs with the Popish martyrs Videlicet the good Earle of Northumberlande Storie Feltons Nortons VVodhouse Plomtree and so many hundrethes of the Northerne men all rebells and traytors yet saith he approued by miracles vndoubted but what miracles he sheweth not To these he addeth Fisher More the Charterhouse monkes c. whose cause being sufficiently discussed by M. Foxe I referre to the iudgemeÌ„t of indifferent readers But this I can not omit that the traiterous Papist flauÌ„dereth our state not only for publike execution of open rebelles and errant traytors but also with priuie murthering by poysoning whipping and famishing From all suspition of which wicked practises God be praised the states that are professors of the Goâ—pell haue alwayes bene as free as the Papists both by storie liuing testimonie may be proued giltie of theÌ„ And where hee
specially chargeth that learned and reuerend Father M. Elmer now Byshop of London with this deuilishe practise notinge these woordes in the margent Let Elmer remember his Tragedie of the Scottishfriere at Lincolne As I knowe not what coulour he hath for so great and haynous a slauÌ„der so I nothing doubt but that the same is vtterly false and vntrue as a thousand more slaunders and lyes Wherein the Papists as Children of the Father of lyes haue so great delight To conclude seeing not the paine but the cause maketh a martyr whosoeuer haue suffred for treason and rebellion may well be accounted Martirs of the Popisn Church but the church of Christe condemneth such for enemies of Christes kingdome and inheritours of eternal destructiâ— except they repent and obtaine mercie for their horrible wickednes And seeing patient suffring is by Bristows owne confession a gift of God vnto all true Martirs such as were manifestly voide of patience can be no true Martirs as were most of these rebels traitors Story by name Who for all his glorious tale in the time of his most deserued execution by quartering was so impatieÌ„t that he did not only rore and cry like a helhounde but also strake the executioner doing his office and resisted as long as strength did serue him beeing kept downe by three or foure men vntil he was deade O patient martir of the popish church In the 15. 16. demaund he asketh vs whether we haue not read in Chrysostome Augustine others that they vsed this argument to proue the diuinitie of Christ that he hath aduanced his seruants to such honor that they are prayed vnto their graues honored of kings Emperors that miracles are wrought by the reliqus of their Saints I answere we read soÌ„e such thing although not altogither as Bristow reporteth nor to y t end But what if amoÌ„g a great nuÌ„ber of forcible aguments they vsed also some such persuasions shuld their reasoning be a preiudice to the truth of God reueled out of the Scriptures whervnto if those holy man had had as great regarde as they wishe other men to haue in their writing and not suffred them selues to be carried away with common plausible errors they should easely haue espyed that they gayned not so much in resoning so against the Painims as they gaue occasion of superstition among the Christians And to aunswere the xx demaunde we are content to bee tryed by that doctrine for which the auncient Martyrs Irenaeus Cyprian Laurens c. suffred persecution and Martyrdom which was for no pointe of Popery but true christianitie yet wil we not be tryed by all poyntes of doctrine which they did holde for that it is certaine some of them had their errors which the Papists them selues doe not holde as Irenaeus is charged by Eusebius l. b. 3. cap 39 to be a follower of the Chiliastes Cyprian did openly in a councel maintaine rebaptising of them which were baptised by Heretikes Againe wee resuse not the tryall of that docttine for which the Christians were persecuted by the Arrians in Africa notwithstanding the terme of Missa vsed by Victor that writeth that Story by which tearme in that time not the popish Masse which then was not made either in matter or forme but the celebration of the Communion and memory of the sacrifice of Christ commonly called in deede but vnproperly a sacrifice yet will we not be tryed by all that they holde for diuerse errors of prayer for the deade and to the dead were then receiued neithet will the Papistes be tryed by that Religion they helde in all pointes For then were Byshops married Lib. 2. 3. Then the Praiers were in the vulgar tounge and all the people sunge Himnes togither lib. 2. There is no reason therefore that the Papists shoulde call vs to such a tryall as they dare not abide them selues The 16. motiue is the 30. Demaunde Their owne Doctors The disâ—orde of Protestants Luther â—ondemneth our Pretestantes Carolstadians Zwinglians and Caluinists Luther corrupteth the Scripture to helpe his heresie of the breade to be Christes body The head of the church to be a Layman is against the Magdeburgenses and Caluine The prophecie fulfilled in the accorde of the Protestants and Puritants Parliament religion The inconstancy of Protestants VVhat an impudent attempt is chaunge of religion True Christianitie by Luther is vnder the Popedome The discorde of our owne Doctors Bristowe would haue to be a Motiue against vs. As though it were not as great a motiue against them whose Doctors dissent as much as ours To omit all other controuersies when will they bee agreed whether the Pope bee aboue the Councell or the Councell aboue the Pope In which discention they haue not onely Doctor against Doctor but also Councell against Councell and Pope against Pope and Cardinall against Cardinall as Constance and Basill against Ferraria Florence Nicolaus Felix with thâ—ir Cardinals against Eugenius and and his Cardinals But now let vs see what discorde he findeth in our Doctors Luther condemneth the Protestants Carâ—â—stadians Zwâ—nglians Caluinistes in the cause of the Sacrameâ—t The more was his immoderate heate and bitter zeale to be blamed and their Christian modestie to be commended which notwitstanding his ouermuch vehemency in maintayning his error yet accepted hâ—m alwayes as a brother The corruption of the Scripture wherwith he chargeth Luther is a slaunder of his owne for Luther altred no wordes of Scripture but declared his vnderstanding of them when he said Take bread and eate â—his is my body And this is the only discorde that he can proue betweene the professors of the truth For it is a meere sophistry of the ambiguitie of the worde head of the Church that maketh that shewe of contrarietie betweene the Magdeburgenses Caluine and vs who in sence and meaning therof doe perfectly agree as I haue often shewed And Bristowe cannot altogether deny where he derideth the Parliament Religion and inconstancie of Protestants for chaunging the title of head into gouernour and then expounding the gouernment by iniunction Whereas in neither of bothe titles was any other meaning of the godly sorte in the time of King Henry Kinge Edwarde or her Maiestie then is contayned in that exposition In deede Stephen Gardiner as Caluine reporteth at Ratisbone abused the title of supreme head not more wickedly theÌ„ absurdly to defend all Papistrie which theÌ„ was not abolished by king Henry And against that grosse errour of Gardiner writeth Caluine and not against our vnderstanding of that tytle But the Apologie prophecieth that shortely the Lutherans and Zwinglians should bee accorded which is fulfilled in the accorde of the Protestantes and Puritanes who in the demaunde he sayth doe abhorre the tytle of supremacie If I knewe whome he did meane by Puritanes I might aunsweare him the better but seeing hee maketh Protestantes and Puritanes members of a diuision If hee recken the Puritanes for such as bee
whiche alwayes Gods holy name be praysed therefore hath turned to the confusion of Popery and the further spreading of the light of the Gospell In the demaunde he vrgeth vs to shewe when the Romanes went out of the truth fâ—rsaking any company of Christians then liuing This hath bene often shewed that the Romanes though not all at once yet by litle and litle euen as the mysterie of iniquitie got strength which began to worke in the Apostles tyme haue departed from the communion of other Christians The first storye that maketh notable mention is Euseb. lib. 5. cap. 25. of Victor which did cut him selfe from all the Churches of the East about a ceremonye since which tyme the Romane Bishops by litle and litle haue departed vntill they made a generall apostasie and defection from the vniuersall Churche condemning all the Christians in the world except such as held of their particular schismaticall and hereticall Churche of Rome The 19. motiue is the 4. demaund Risinge afterwarde Saynt Ireneus and Tertullians motiue He spendeth muche labour in vayne to proue that the first religion is the onely true religion and that all sectes that arise after are false which we graunt most willingly with Irenaeus Tertullian and the Scripture it selfe But he hath not one worde to proue that our religion is of a later springe then the Apostles and therefore like an asse he flyeth to their common stable saying that Luther liued but yesterdaye as though Luther were the firste author of our religion Which if it be not as auncient as Christ and the Apostles might easiely be confuted by the doctrine of Christ and the Apostles contayned in the holye Scriptures The 20. motiue is the 5. demaunde Beginninge with wondringe and gaynesaying of Christians then in vnitye vvhich is Saynte Irenaeus motiue Our religion of Christ reuealed in the fleshe began with wondring and gaynesaying of Scribes Pharisees as it is manifest by the historye of the Gospell Marke 1. yet was not the doctrine of Christ newe or straunge but newely begonne to be restored which was by them corrupted so is the same now wondred at and gaynesayde by their successors the Papistes but of true Christians it is nether wondred at nor gaynesayde contrariwise the heresie of Papistes in manye poyntes was wondred at and gaynesayde by true Christians whiche Bristowe saythe we can not proue to be in anye one For example I will name one of the chiefest articles which they holde namely the Popes supremacye vpon which all the rest in Eusebius testifyeth that when Victor Bishoppe of Rome which was the first that challeÌ„ged any supremacie tooke vpon him to excommunicate the Churches and Bishops of Asia about the celebration of Easter His presumption was wondred at and gainesayde not only by those Churches and their Bishops but euen by others neere hand as by Irenaeus Bishop of Lyons in Fraunce which sharpely reproued him therfore more theÌ„ two hundreth yeeres after when Zozimus other Romish Prelates made claime to a kind of supremacy in resisting appeale out of Africa and for that purpose had counterfaited a decree of the Nicâ—ne councel They were wondred at and gainesaid by the whole councell of Carthage The like might I shewe for worshipying of Images the reall presence transubstatiation c. But where hee sayeth that all heresies were wondered at and gainesaide immediatly after they arose it cannot be proued Nor that all was Heresie that was gainesaide by them that were in vnitie For the baptisme of Heretikes was gainesaide by Saincte Cyprian and all the Bishoppes of Africa yet was it none heresie that Infants might be sauedwith out receiuing of the communion was gainesaid by Innocentius Bishop of Rome and by S. Augustine and by all the church that was at vnitie against the Pelagians August contra duas epistolas Pelag. ad Bonifacium lib. 2. Cap 4. Yet was not that opinion then helde by the Pelagians otherwise horrible Heretikes and heresie but that which the Bishop of Roms the rest of the known visible church did holde was an erâ—or whereby you may see how truely the commaundement of Christe vnto Peter to confirme his Brethren after his conuersion doth giue the Byshop of Rome ' power neuer to be deceiued nor to fall into error And that the Church may be the piller and stay of trueth although the chiefe members thereof and generally all that are knowen to be members thereof may be taken in some particular error The 21. Motiue is the 42. demaunde Vnsent Orders Protestants allowe better of our orders theÌ„ of their owne Wheras Bristowe chargeth vs to be vnsent it is nothing else but a popish slaunder and petition of principle for we are called and sent ordinarily by the Church and elders of the same to preach the word of God and to minister the Sacraments Neither are we ordayned by a lay Prince as he like a lewde Papist doth slaunder both our Christian Prince and vs. And although the Prince by letters Patents hath sent some to preach and visite the Churches of her dominions yet shee hath doone it by authoritie of the worde of God and by example of godly Princes Iosaphat and other 2. Chro. 17. not taking vpon het to execute any ecclesiasticall function but according to her kingly authoritie in causes ecclesiasticall And where Bristowe saith we allowe better of their popish orders then of our owne secking as much as we can possible to be consecrated by one of their orders except it be some such proude hypocrite as Bristowe is that so iudgeth and seeketh it is a moste abhominable lye For withall our heart wee abhorre defie detest and spit at your stinking greasie antichristian orders Neither doth our Church receiue any of your execrable ordering to minister in the Church before they haue solemnly by othe renounced your Antichriste and publikely as well professed to imbrace all true religion as Protested that in their conscienses they defy all papistry and other heresies Although many godly men wishe yet a more seuere discipline in examining and receiuing such as come our of your heresie to serue in the Church of God The 22. motiue is the 43. demaund Suceession S. Optatus motiue The Church is euerlasting visible S. Hieroms S. Augustines motiue the Church euerlasting The communion of the B. of Rome to be kept of all Christians Succession in the see Apostolike Tertullians and Augustines motiues That the Church is euerlasting Bristow neede not haue takeÌ„ such paynes to proue that this continuance is preserued by succession is also to be confessed But y t this succession is visible limited to any one sea of bishops it is false For euen as he him selfe sayth it is necessary that all Adams children to be come of Adam by a continuall pedegree of fathers and grandfathers and other progenitors euen vntill his time and yet no one of Adams childreÌ„ can deduce this pedegree by
naming of all his progenitors from Adam vnto his time so there is no doubt but the Church hath had a perpetuall succession in the world from y e beginning thereof vntil this day although she can not name a particular succession of persons in any one place for all ages that are past But euen as by the Scriptures we are taught that Adam is our naturall father although we can not name all our auÌ„cestors that haue bene betwene vs and him right so by the Scriptures we are taught that the Church is our heauenly mother although we can not frame such tables of succession as the Papistes require vs to shew which they can not performe them selues For although they can name a number of Bishops whereof some haue taught at Rome some haue sitten and slept in their chayer at Rome and some at Auynion some haue played the deuill therein an hundreth of the last being no more like to a score of the firste in doctrine and life then God whose children the first were is like the deuill whose derlings the last were yet what is this to shewe a succession of their Church And howe doth this proue them to be the true Churche can not the Churche of Constantinople and other Churches in Greece doe the like vnto this daye Yet doe the Papistes count all them for heretikes and scismatikes Whatsoeuer therefore Optatus Hierom Augustine Tertullian or any other haue written of succession of Bishops in the Apostolike sees they meane so large and so farre forth as they continue in succession of Apostolike doctrine Otherwise woulde not Hierom haue embraced Arrianisme because it was receyued by Liberius who sate in the Apostolike see of Rome and coulde name his predecessors from Peter Nor Optatus haue receyued Eutychianisme because it was defended by Dioscorus which satte in the Euangelisticall see of Alexandria and coulde name his predecessors from S. Marke the disciple of S. Peter Nether woulde Augustine haue consented to Arrianisme because it was mayntayned by Eulalius and Euzoius Bishops of the Apostolike see of Antioche althoughe they were able to shewe their succession by many Bishops euen vnto S. Peter him selfe who planted his chayer at Antioche by all Papistes confession seuen yeares before he came to Rome You see therefore howe farre the motiue of succession may drawe or driue any man to haue regard vnto it euen as long as there is succession of doctrine as well as of place and person and not longer nor further The 23. motiue is the 44. demaund Apostolike Church The Communion of the Bishop of Rome to be kept of all Christians Apostolike Church is the Romane Church Apostolike Church as the Romane is S. Augustines motiue Succession of the Bishops of Rome the motiue of Optatus S. Augustine and S. Irenaeus This motiue in effect is all one with the former and in a maner so confessed by Bristow him selfe But thus he takâ—th his principle of their singing in the Masse our saying in the communion of the creede in which we confesse that we beleue one onely Catholike and Apostolike Church This one Catholike Church sayth Bristow is our Church that is Apostolike because it agreeth with the faith of the Church of Rome which is the sea of an Apostle holding on to this day by succession and to which was written an Epistle by an Apostle I aunswer it is not the popish Romane Church because that Church is departed from the vniuersal Church of Christ planted by the Apostles through out the worlde and holdeth not on in succession of the doctrine of the Apostle which did write that epistle to the Romanes But Bristowes wise reasoning is to be noted S. Peter was an Apostle That is true he was the first Bishop of Rome It is a great doubt whether he euer came at Rome and it is out of doubt by the Scriptures that he taried not there so longe as the histories affirme and last it is false that he was a Bishop of a particular Church which was an Apostle ouer all the world and specially ouer the circumcision There is a citye in the worlde named Rome And that citye by the Scripture is the seat of Antichrist and the whore of Babylon Apoc. 17. vers 18. S. Paules epistle to the Romaines is extant and euen that epistle will proue the Church of Rome at this day to be not apostolicall but apostatical as in many articles so in the article of iustification Rom. 3. vers 28. Are not those causes why a Church is called Apostolike sayth Bristow No verily but onely because it holdeth and mayntayneth the Apostolike doctrine which if it doe in all necessary articles then is it Apostolike hath succession and plantation of the Apostles or els not although it be gathered in such cities in which the Apostles haue preached planted and to whome they haue written But Tertullian doth so define Apostolike Churches sayth Bristow I say it is vntrue for Tertullian against newe heretikes sendeth vs not to the emptye chayres of the Apostles which had written to such cities but vnto the the testimony of their doctrine receyued from the Apostles and continued vntill that time So he sendeth them that are in Achaia to Corinthe such as are in Macedonia to Philippi those that are in Asia to Ephesus them which be neare Italy to Rome from whence they of Africa had their authoritie not by excellency of that Church aboue other Apostolike Churches but by nearenes of place Therfore he saith Proxima est tibi Achaia habes Corinthum Si non longè es à Macedonia habes Philippos Si potes in Asiam tendere habes Ephesum si autem Italiae adieceris habes Romam vnde nobis quaeque auctoritas presto est statuta Is Achaia nearest vnto thee thou hast Corinthe If thou be not farre from Macedonia thou hast Philippi If thou canst goe into Asia thou hast Ephesus If thoulye neare to Italy thou hast the Church of Rome from whence vnto vs also in Africa authoritie is setled nearer at hand Tertul de praeser But Bristow sayth that the auncient fathers when there were many Apostolike Churches standing they did principally and singularly direct men alwayes to the Church of Rome This you see to be false by the place of Tertullian last ciâ—ed But that they did more often direct men to the testimony of the Church of Rome it was for that by meanes of the Imperiall citie it was more notorious and best knowne Otherwise it is a very lye of Bristow where he sayth that when the fathers name the Apostolike church they do meane the Romane church by excellency as the Poet signifieth Vergil and the Philosopher Aristotle A like lye it is that no Church remayneth in the world founded by any of the Apostles but onely Rome For many Churches remayne to this day that were planted by the Apostle Paule who from Hierusalem to Illyricum filled all the contryes with the doctrine of the Gospell of which
councels the contrarie But admitting they did erre yet sayth he they erred not in such matters as the Protestantes doe now charge the Pope Romaines withall Whereto I answer that against that blasphemous principle of theirs that the Pope can not erre we first bring in those examples of Popes that were heretikes for their time altered religion like heretikes in such matteâ—s as we both confesse to be errors Then this being obteyned that the Pope is not priuiledged from error the matters in controuersie wherewith we charge the Pope are to be examined only by the auctoritie of the holy Scriptures and thereby to be decided The 25. motiue is the 9. demaunde The conuersion of Heathen nations Caluines Legates in India The discorde of Protestantes Iesuites Fryers preaching in India Miracles for our whole religion The Apostles were of our religion The church is euerlasting and visible All nations that were at the first coÌ„uerted to the true faith of Christ were conuerted by the Apostles whose faith and doctrine we hold and will proue by their writings that we holde none other As for the argument of â—ryers preaching in India miracles wrought so fa. re hence with such great conuersion of the Indians vnto Popery if it were true yet proueth it no more then the preaching and miracles of the false Apostles Phil. 1. and the conuersion of the Gothes and Vandalls Crepides c. by the Arrians and other nations by Nestorius c. doth proue those false Apostles to be true Apostles or the heresies of the Arrians c. to be true doctrine Wherefore not the Papistes but the Apostles of Christ were his witnesses vnto the vttermost places of the earth But of this matter of câ—nuersion and all thinges conteyned you may reade somewhat more at large in mine aunswere to Stapletons fortresse where the same is handled part 1. cap. 16. 17. The 26. Motiue is the 18. 13. and 14. demaund By what religion hath Idolatrie bene destroyed Prophecies for our religion Protestantes be possessed with deuills Churches confirmed by miracles Deuills expelled by reliques Deuills are in heretikes S. Hierome of our religion The martyrs of our religion Vigilantius aliue againe in Protestants S. Augustine Chrysostome of our religion The honor and vertue of Sainctes reliques S. Augustines motiue for which Christ is to be beleued Our religion an inuincible motiue to forsake idolls and beleue in Christ who is to be beleued for the vertue of the signe of his crosse which working miracles was the motiue of Lactantius The reall presence of Christ in the sacrament The crosse and the masse confirmed by S. Bernard in Italy S. Cyprian of our religion The Iewes religion chaunged into ours by Christ c. In this motiue is much babling but no matter at all The summe of that he would proue is this That Popery is not idolatrie as we charge it because by Popery Idolatrie hath bene destroyed Although this argument is naught because one kinde of Idolatrie may destroy an other yet it is falsely affirmed that Poperie hath destroyed all idolatry That Popery hath destroyed idolatry Bristow wil proue by three examples the one of the reliques of Sainctes and the honor of them the other of the signe of the crosse and the honorthereof and the last by the reall presence in the Sacrament which he calleth his Lord and his God But our Lord and God is in heauen according to the Psalm 115. The destruction of idolatrie by Christ in deede was prophecied therefore the Pope setting vp and mainteyning as grosse idolatrie almost as euer was any of the Paganes sheweth him selfe to be a verie Antichrist But to the purpose Hierom lib. 28. in Isa. cap. 65. sayth that the heretikes in Fraunce were possessed with the deuill which could not abide the might and whips of the holy ashes If he spake this against VigilaÌ„tius other godly men which reproued the immoderate honoring of reliques and other superstitions he spake of his owne iudgement and not of the iudgement of the church For he only of all writers of his time counted Vigilantius an heretike as he did Ruffinus also which yet is takeÌ„ for as good a Catholike as he It is knowne how he taunteth and scoffeth at Augustine Wherefore his censure is not sufficient to make Vigilantius opinion heresie nor them heretikes which were of his iudgemeÌ„t But admit this iudgement of Hierom to be sounde yet was not the honor and estimation of reliques which he defendeth against Vigilantius the same which is in Poperie but much differing there froÌ„ For thus he writeth ad Râ—panum contr Vigilant Nos autem non dico martyrum reliquias sed ne solem quidem â—unam non Angelos non Archangelos non Cherubin non Seraphim omne nomen quod nominatur in prâ—esenti saeculo in futuro colimus adoramus ne seruiamus potius creaturae quaÌ„ creatori qui est benedictus in saecula But we worship and adore I say not the reliques of the martyrs but not the sunne the moone not the Angells not Archangels not Cherubin not Seraphim euery name that is named both in this world and in the world to come least we should serue the creaturerather then the creator which is blessed for euer By this you may see that the honor they gaue to reliques was but a reuerent estimatioÌ„ of them for Christs sake whose seruaunts the Martyrs were and a lesse honor then they gaue to the Sunne and the Moone as is manifest by his gradation and consequently no religious worship As the Papistes vse and mayntayne of the reliques not of Saynctes but oftentymes of deuills incarnate of beasts and all manner of fayned bables Nether is there any thing more monstrous in popery then their shameles fayning of infinite reliques That Augustine writeth that deuils were tormented and expelled at the memories or burialls of the martyrs where somtimes idolls were worshipped it proueth that idols were destroyed by Poperie For if God wrought miracles at such places where the bodies of his Martyrs slept to coÌ„firme the faith for which they died doth this make any thing for Popery But the same Augustine to the Maudaurenses that were Pagans and other heathen men vseth the argument of the greater honor and reuerence doone by Kings and Emperours at the tombes and memories of the Saintes and Martyrs and of miracles wrought at the same places to shew the power of Christe to the confusion of idolatrie This wee graunt but how doth Popery ouerthrowe Idolatrie There reuerence although in soÌ„e respects superstitious was far from popish Idolatrie of worshipping of Saints Images bones c as wee haue shewed euen now out of Hierom the most eger defender of those vses and abuses in his time The miracles approued none other doctrine then the maâ—tyrs died for who died for none other doctrine but such as is contayned in the holy Scriptures in which Poperie hath no ground
The like I say of the storie of the bodie of Babycas the martyr in presence wherof the oracle of Apollo could not speake But Chrysostom to draw mâ—n from all kind of idolatrie sent them from reliques In Gen. Hom. 15 Nay he sent them to the churches and houses of prayer to the graues of the martyrs not to worship them as Papistes doe but by such things to receaue blessing and to kepe them selues from being entaÌ„gled with the snares of the deuill while they be put in mind of the vertue of the martyrs to follow their godly coÌ„uersation And albeit there were some superstitioÌ„ in that regard of martyrs troubles memories as in that age there was yet doth it not follow there was all Popery nor such grosse idolatry as Papistes doe commit with their counterfait rehques Finally the miracles wroght by God at the dead bodies of the Saincts might wel be vsed by Augustin Chrysostom Theodoret against the GeÌ„tills asan argument to ouerthrow their idolatrie euen as the example of the miracles wrought by God at the dead body of Elizeus against the idolatrous Israelits Reg. but it followeth not therof that idols should be made of their lawes by worshipping them as the Papists do For y e bones of Elizeus were not for that miracle takeÌ„ out of his graue shined in gold deuided into many churches worshiped licked and kissed as the Popish guise is The same aunswere I make concerning miracles wrought by God with the signe of the crosse which was the motiue of Lactantius I say they proue not that the signe of the crosse should be worshipped no more then the miracles wrought by God with the brasen serpeÌ„t were any cause why the Israelits should worship the brasen serpent Reg. And as touching the blessed Sacrament which Bristow blasphemously calleth his Lord and God although the reall presence and transsubstantiation were graunted forasmuch as the Papists theÌ„ selues affirme the Sacrament to consist of accidents as the signe but no accideÌ„ts are God or in God If any miracles were wrought by God at the celebration therof as Augustine and Cyprian seeme to auouch yet neither is the reall presence proued by those miracles nor they tryed to be Papists for writing of such miracles of which if any man will see more let him resorte to mine aunswere vnto Heskins lib. 1. cap. 24. lib. 3. cap. 42. Vnto the storie of S. Bernards life we geue no credit as to a counterfait fable and as litle to the reporte of M. Poynts iâ— his booke of the reall presence testifying the casting out of many deuils by vertue of the same sacrament Finally it is alltogeather false that he sayeth the Iewes religion was chaynged by Christ into Popery For the sacrifice of Christes death against which the sacrifice of the Popish masse is blasphemous hath taken away all sacrifices ceremonies of the law Heb. 9. Concerning the Altar which Christians haue whereof they haue no power to caâ—e which serue the Tabernacle Heb. 13. mine aunswere is against Heskins lib. 3. cap. 60. where that text argument is handeled of purpose The 27. motiue is the 35. demaund Vnity of the church a motiue to beleue in Christ. The discord of Protestantes the inconstancy of Protestantes Our Sauiour Christ praieth that his disciples may be one in God him theyr redeemer And this vnitye all Protestantes retaine notwithstanding diuersity of opinion in one article any contention about ceremonies Euen as the Apostles were one in one God and Christ although there was variaunce about Circumcision ceremonies Ciprian Cornelius the Romayne church the church of Carthage were at vnitye in Christ although the one of them erred in the sacrameÌ„t of baptisme So were Hierome Augustine allthough they mayneteyned contrary opinions about Peters dissembling translation of the Scripture From this verily I except such schiâ—inaties as delight in contencion which haue allwayes bene against the true church As for the vnity of the Papistes seeing it is not in the doctrine of Christ it proueth no more that they are those for whom Christ prayed then the vnity of the Mahometistes which for these thousand yeares haue kept greater vnity then the Papists whose church hath bene rent a sunder into so many heades as there haue bene Popes at once and that very often and for many yeares together there haue bene Pope against Pope couÌ„cel against couÌ„cell Doctors against Doctors orders against orders Canonists against Diuines disseÌ„ting in articles of faith as of the Popes supremacy of original sinne of transubstantiation c. Wherefore Christian vnity is as vntruly denyed vnto vs as falsely challenged vnto them whatsoeuer he prateth of Lutherans Zwinglians Caluinists Protestants and Puritans The 28. and 29. motiues are conteined in the 34. demaund Iudges infallible in cases of controuersie The churches iudgemeÌ„t is alwayes infallible Obedience of Catholiks to their superiors both ecclesiasticall and temperall Trinitaries Bristrow braggeth that their church hath iudges infallible in cases of controuersie and ours hath not But who be their iudges The Pope or the generall councell Whether soeuer of these be nether is irrefragable For both haue bene controlled and found fault withall as I haue shewed before and they them selues are together by the eares whether of these is irrefragable because the councell hath deposed the Pope the Pope hath not obeyed the councell as it is manifest betwene Eugenius the 4. and the councell of Basil. How infallible the churches iudgement is and alwayes hath bene it serueth not the Romish synagogue vntill she proue her doctrine to be agreable to the Scriptures which seeing she neither can doe nor dare abyde the triall of them she sheweth plainly that she is not the church of Christ. As for the auctoritie of synodes such as that of the Apostles was which determined the controuersy by auctority of the holy Scriptures ProtestaÌ„ts do gladly acknowledge how necessary it is for the church to decide controuersies and do willingly submit them selues thereto The subiection of Papists to their indges doth no more proue their religion to be true then the obedience of the Mahometistes to their superiors both in cases of religion and of the common wealth doth iustifie their sect to be the religion of God What Trinitaries other sectaries be in Polonia or elswhere that wil not submit themselues to any auctority as they are no parte of our church so we haue no cause to excuse or defende them In the demaunde Bristow complaineth of an vnlearned Christian which hath bene suffered to write a vaine libell against the auctority of the church of God which is a vaine lye for there is no true Christian learned or vnlearned which will hold against the church of God so loÌ„g as she is directed by the word of God as the true church is in all matters necessarie vnto saluation But perhaps the vnlearned Christian hath challenged the church of
Rome to approue her doctrine by auctority of Gods word Which because the Papists dare not atteÌ„pt Bristow requireth I can not tel what approbation priuiledge of the sayd libell to shew a bad shift better then none at all why they wil not answere it For Popish libells that are but cast abroad in writing we require no approbation nor priuiledge dare not the Papists confute a printed libell before it haue approbation priuiledge The 29. motiue Protestantes them selues take thinges vpon our churches credit The churches auctority S. Augustines motiue VVhat Sor. pture the Protestants deny Although we did receaue such things as he reherseth vpon their churches credit it followeth not that theirs is the true church for we receaue nothing from them without dew exammation The Scriptures we receaue not vpon the only credit of the Popish church but vpon the credit of y e vniuersall church of Christ. The creedes articles of doctrine tearmes of person trinitie consubstantiality Sacraments c. we receaue because they be consonant to the Scriptures not because the church of Rome tellâ—th â—s they be true As for the auctoritie of the church which he sayth was S. Augustines motiue to beleue the Gospell was not a single or sole motiue but a commotiue or an argument that with other argumeÌ„ts did moue him for the sayth not moueret but commoueret and so it is with vs. Prouided alwayes that the Popish church be no taken for that Catholike or vniuersall church VVhat then sayth Bristow was it the Protestants church whereof Augustine ment or can you hold laughter when the question is asked No verily for when the Protestants church that it is now so called in this age like as it was called the Homousians church in Augustines time is a member of the Catholike vniuersall church of Christ and so proued by the holy Scriptures it is a ridiculous thing to doubt whether it were the popish church which is but an hereticall assembly departed from the vniuersall church long since Augustines departure out of this life But Bristow will proue that the church at whose commanndement Augustine beleued the Gospell was not the ProtestaÌ„ts church because that church commaunded him to beleue the bookes of Toby Iudith VVisdome Ecclesiasticus the Machabees to be canonicallscripture which the church of Protestantes doth denye But what it Augustine were deceiued to thinke he hearde the voice of the Catholike church when he did not shall the Protestantes churche be condemned S. Hierome who if the church of Rome were the Catholike church was more like to heare her voice because he was a Priest of the church of Rome telleth vs a cleane contrary tale For thus he writeth In praefat in Prouerbia Sicut ergo Iudith Tobiae Machabaeorum libros legit quidem ecclesia sed eos inter Canonicas scripturas non recipit sic haec duo volumina leg at ad aedificationem plebis non ad auctoritatem ecclesiasticorum dogmatum confirmandam Therfore as the Church in deade readeth the bookes of Iudith and Tobias and of the Macchabees but yet she receiueth them not among the Canonicall scriptures so she may reade these two Bookes speaking of the booke of Wisedome and Ecclesiasticus for the edifying of the common people but not for confirming the authoritie of Ecclesiasticall doctrine Doth the Church of Protestants iudge otherwise of these Bookes then that Church which thus instructed Hierome What then I must say as Bristowe doth S. Hierome and the Catholike Church in his time of our Religion The Church of Rome now is of an other iudgement then the Church of Rome was then ergo it is not now that it was then But whereas Bristowe chargeth vs to to deny or at least to leaue indifferent the Canticles of Salomon The Epistle to the Hebrues The Epistles of Saint Iames S Peter S. Iohn Sainct Iude with the Apocalips it is a diuelish slaunder as God knoweth and the woâ—ld can beare vs witnesse The 30. Motiue is the 36. and 37. demaÅd Storehouse of the Scriptures Tht Iewes Religion chaunged into ours by Christ. The Churches learning and wisdome The Church store S. Irenaeus motiue Bristowe demaundeth whether the Popish Church receiuing the Scriptures of the olde and newe Testament from Christ hath not kept them faithfully without adding minishing or corrupting I aunswere no for the Popish church receiueth none of Christ but the catholike church of Christ. Againe the popish Church hath added whole bokes to the canon which the chuch of the Iewes neuer receiued nor the vniuersall Church of Christ. But those Bokes saith Bristow hath the Protestants church robbed vs of w c are allowed by approued Councels You heard in the last motiue Hieromes iudgement of those bookes whervnto agreeth the couÌ„cel of Laodiâ—ea cap. 59. Augustine receiueth the boks of Macchabees but with condition of sobrietie in the reader or hearer Augâ— consec â—pist Gaudent cap. 13. Last of al the popish church either of fraud or negligence hath corrupted an exceeding great number of textes of the scripture in her vulgar latine translation w c she receueth as only authentical The very first promise of the gospel is corrupted and falsyfied For wheras the trueth is Ipsum contret caput â—â—â—â— the same seede shall broose thine head the popish translation hath Ipsa the same woman Gen 3. Wheras he saith the Protestants church for this 100. yeeres as we coÌ„fesse our selues occupyed no bible nor had any thing to do with the scriptures he lieth out of al measure for the church of Christ hath alwaies had the scriptures in euery nation where it was it had theÌ„ in their mother toung How many Bibles are yet extant written in parchmeÌ„t 3 or 4. hundreth yeeres past in the English toung beside other in the Saxon language The like are to be proued to haue ben in al places where the Churches were gathered as in France Italy Bohemia c. Finally whatsoeuer he bableth of their Church to be the store house of the Scriptures trueth the like may be said of the greke Church which they coÌ„demne as schismaticall hereticall therefore this storehouse is no Motiue to proue the Romish Sinagogue to be the church of God In the 37. demaund he asketh whether as wel Protestants as other doe not condemne the old writers errors other heresies of Heretiks which made great shew of scriptures by the rule of y e popish churchs faith I answere the Protestants out of the scriptures do can disproue such shew of scriptures made by maisters of error are no more moued by the popish churches authoritie then the Apostles were moued by authoritie of the Iewish Synagogue to reproue all the grosse Idolatrie and snperstition of the Gentiles Therfore the popish Church is not Depositorium Diues that rich storehouse of trueth which was S. Ireneus motiue The 31. motiue is the 41. demaund Sending and teaching of all diuine
with the crosse more then of touchinge the hemme of anye garment In the 22. demaunde he asketh whether in the most auncient seruice of the primitiue Church there was not alwayes prayer for the deade and to Saynctes the ceremonies vsed by Papistes in baptisme c. I answere no. Cyprian whome he quoteth Ep. 66. speaketh not of prayer for the deade in any place but of oblation for the falling a sleepe that is thankes giuing for the departure of the deade and naming them in the prayers of the Church which dyed in the faith of Christ and in obedience of the Church In the tyme of Eusebius that errour of praying for the deade was in deede receyued in many places of the Churche which beganne first amonge the Montanists The ceremonies of exufâ—lation and exorcisme were not idlely vsed in the primitiue Church as they are of the Papistes but when the persons to be baptised were sensibly possessed with deuills as appeareth in Cyprian lib. 3. Ep. 7. ad Magnum Likewise where he demaund th whether we reade at any tyme when Masse did first come into the Churches I aunswere if by Masse he meaneth that popish forme of sacrificing which they vse and call Masse we reade of euery parte of it when and by what Pope it came in By Masse he meaneth the doctrine of the carnall presence transubstantiation adoration of the sacrament and making it a sacrifice propitiatory for the quicke and the deade I aunswer that we reade all these heresies to haue crept into the Church of Rome since the first six hundreth yeares And as for the substance of the canon being contrary to the doctrine of the Apostles is easie to be proued that it came not from the Apostles beside that some of them ascribe it to Gregory and Gregory him selfe to Scholasticus so that being of some antiquitie it conteyneth in it matter repugnant euen vnto the popish heresies For first it calleth the coÌ„secrated breade and wine the sacrifices and offereth them for the whole Church Secondly after consecration it calleth the Sacrament Panem sanctum vitâ—e aeternae calicem salutis aeternae holye breade of eternall life and cuppe of eternall health of the giftes of God and prayeth God to accept it as the sacrifice of Abell Thirdly the priest prayeth that God will commaund â—â—â—â— same to be caried by an Angellinto his high alter c. Fourthly he prayeth for all them that haue receyued the same sacrament with him which can not stand with a priuate Masse Finally that it came not euidently of the Apostles as Bristow impudently affirmeth it may be euideÌ„tly seene by this that diuerse Sainctes are named in it which liued more then two hundreth yeares after the Apostles as Cosmus Damiaius c. And that we are able to finde more fault with it then with Gloria Patri Te Deum c. it is plentifully declared by many volumes and namely by Bishop of Sarum in his sermon and defence of the same against Harding The 33. motiue is the 21. demaund Ecclesiasticall monuments and liuings Churches the worke of the Catholikes Vniuersities of heretikes and Catholikes Protestants be vsurpers of other mens liuings Although a great number of churches that are now standing were builded by Papistes and for Popery yet not all For the chiefest and most auncient Cathedrall churches were neither builded by Papistes nor for Popery but by Christian Princes and for the vse of Christian religion Of such churches writeth Euseb. in vita Const. lib. 30. Hist. Eccl. lib. 10. cap. 4. where was but one table or altare which was remoueable made of bords placed in the midest of the Church contrary to the popish fashion which hath many Altars and all againste walles or pillers and the chiefest against the farthest wall most commonly It is a fonde reason of Bristowe that they were built for Popery because they are builte in length to the East or in forme of a Crosse. For many are built rounde and those with crosse Iles are moste vnmeete for masse at the high Altar which they that sit in the crosse Yles cannot see Likewise Bede whome Bristowe in the demaunde without shame doth quote for the contrary testifieth that the churches of the Romaines lib. 3. Cap. 4. speaking of Niua one that was brought vp at Rome which at a place called Candida casa now Whiterne Made a Church of stone of an other facion then the Britans were wont to build These are y e words of Bede of Stapletons translation And concerning the founding of Ecclesiasticall liuings and Vniuersities we know that the first dotation of Churches was by Christian Princes what if superstition hath added any thing to them Nether the building of Churches not the founding of liuings and Vniuersities doth proue the builders or founders to be of good religion not yet coÌ„demne the vsers of such Churches liuings and Vniuersities of vsurping or sacriledge The idolatrous Church of Pantheon at Rome was turned into Maria rotunda Gregory councelled Augustine to conuert the Idolatrous Churches of the Saxons to the vse of Christian religion Beda lib. 1. cap. 30. The Vniuersitie of Athens founded by heaâ—hen Philosophers was after frequented by Christian schollers as testifieth Gregory Nazianzene in Monod And if we beleue our English stories y e liuings of the Idolatrous Flamines Arch Flamines was conuerted to the mayntenancs of the Bishops and ArchBishops The 34. motiue is the 23. demaund Heretikes are apes of the Catholikes The Churches learning and wisedom The Communion booke an apish imitation of our Masse booke The maner of Apes is to counterfeit and follow visible actions without any meaning or profit Such imitation haue we none but the apish Church of Rome is ful of such following of the gestures of Christ in their masse and other ceremonies Yea they counterfeit the voice of Pilate Iudas in reading the gospel on Palme Sonday They play the apes of the Primitiue Church in coniuring the deuil in baptisme Yea they be the apes of Aaron the leuitical Priestes in their robes sensing sacrificing The very Pagans they follow in ceremonies festiuities as their owne Durand confesseth In whose Rationale diuinorum you may see the learning wisdom of the popish Church for all their mischieuous mysteries As for vs we imitate nothing that they doe to get commendation by similitude of their doings but rather we abhorre whatsoeuer hath but a shew of popery if we vse any thing rightly which is abused of them we are not therefore apes of them but they apes of the auncient fathers whose doctrine we doe truely follow as they vainely imitate and in imitation falsely peruert their examples That the communion booke is an apish imitation of the masse booke is a most shamelesse lye For what similitude hath our ministration of the communion with their masse any more then our doctrine with theirs If any thinge in ceremonies or discipline haue bene tollerated not
altogether purged from all similitude of popish actions by yelding vnto the infirmitie of the weaker sort yet is the Church of God perfect in her selfe and needeth not to borrow of any secte any thing for her perfect furniture in doctrine ceremonies or discipline but hath absolute rules to direct her in any of these expressed in the holy Scriptures For the diuision of parishes the holding of Councells excommunication suspension publike solemnising of mariage with the lawes of the same punishing of heretikes by death c. are all manifestly proued out of the Scriptures Probat of testaments and such like matters pertayne to the ciuill lawe And whereas Bristow sayth we could not tell that we shoulde vse baptisinge of men more then washinge of feete or this lesse then that or one to be a sacrament and not the other except we had bene taught by the popishe Churche it is a greate falshoode For althoughe we might alleage the iudgement of the moste auncient Churche of Christ which did not accept that action of Christ as a sacraments yet the wordes of our Sauiour Christ are manifest which doth not institute a sacrameÌ„t or visible signe of the inuisible grace of God giuen vnto vs but onely giueth vs an example thereby of seruice able humilitie one to an other Ioan. 13. 12. Wherefore no more in this then in any other matter doe we take any light out of the bookes and doings of those owles that flye in the darkenes of mens traditions but onely out of the lawe of God which is a light vnto our steps and a lanterne vnto our feete that we neede not like apes counterfeit externall toyes as they doe but being followers of God as wellbeloued children we may walke in loue as Christ hath loued vs and so faâ—re to followe the steppes of other men as we see plainly that they haue followed Christ. The 35. motiue is the 25. demaund States of perfection Monkes Monasteries Parliament religion We confesse that we haue no states of perfection in this life amonge vs which to affirme in any mortall man is blasphemye against the bloode of Christ. As for Monkes and Fryers names Eremites c none were farther from a Christian or honest life then they as the worlde knoweth sufficientlye And therefore by lawe they and their Monasteries were iustly subuerted As for the solitarye men of the auncient tymes dwelling by them selues or in the desert places called Mâ—nachâ— Anchoritae or Eremitâ—e these popishe orders of whose subuersion Bristow complayneth were no more like vnto them then Apes and Monkeyes are to men and women The communitye of goodes that was in the Church of the Apostles Act. 4. was none other then suche as is and ought to be amonge all true Christians which was not as Bristowe ignorauntlye and impudently affirmeth to liue without propriety of goodes hauing all thinges in an Anabaptisticall communitie but that they accompted nothing of that they possessed to be their owne when the necessitie of their brethren required the vse therof Act. 4. 32. 34. And Act. 5. 4. Peter affirmeth that both the lande and the price thereof was in the proprietye of Ananias so that he might haue retayned ether his land or the whole price thereof but that he was an hypocrite and would beare the Churche in hande that he had brought the whole price when he withdrewe a parte thereof As for Virgines although there be fewer amongest vs that boast of that profession yet are there more both men and women which freely keepe their purpose of virginitie then were amonge those popishe vowed cloystralls The 36. motiue is the 46. demaund The state of our predecessors Prayer for the deade the ground of building Christian monuments Vniuersities of heretikès and Catholikes Protestants be ashamed of their fathers The demaund serueth to be contrary to the motiue for in the motiue he confesseth that we will not condemne our auncestors that haue dyed these many hundred yeares in popish ignorance nor the auncient doctors which haue held some errors which the Papistes doe hold but in the demaund he asketh if all these are damned in hell if not then theirs is the true Church those errors are truth I aunswer we deale not with condemnation of men for lacke of two causes which make a Iudge the one austeritie the other is knowledge Concerning the first it pertayneth onely to Christ to be the Iudge of the quicke and the deade whose office we dare not vsurpe otherwise then he hath commaunded vs to pronounce sentence out of his word concerning the latter we take not vpon vs to knowe ether the faith or repentance of them that dyed before our time and therefore we commit their iudgement to God But generally we are taught by the Scriptures that such as holde the onely foundation which is Iesus Christ in a true faith shall be saued although they build vpon this foundation chaffe straw wood c. 1. Cor. 3. And therefore we doubt not but S. Augustine Chrysostom Hierom Gregory Bernard many thowsands euen in the tyme of great blindnes holding the same only foundation may be saued notwithstanding the chaffe and stubble of a few errors which the former sort did hold or a number of errors and superstitions wherewith the later sort were defiled As for Fraunces and Dominike such late leaders of the locustes we rather thinke they are returned into the bottomlesse pit from whence they came then that they be Saincts in heauen But if we excuse the rest by ignorance Bristow asketh why we condemne not Augustine which was not ignoraunt of our doctrine because he condemned it for most wicked heresie in Aerius Iouinian and Vigilantius who although they be our fathers he sayth we are ashamed to blesse their memorie First concerning Iouinian although he helde an heresie in not preferring virginitie before mariage in some respect yet haue we nothing to doe with him for we hold not that opinion which if we did yet were it no damnable heresy Touching AErius he is coÌ„demned of Augustine for an Arrian his opinioÌ„ of prayer for the deade although it were not liked of Augustine yet doth he in no place condemne it for most wicked heresie as Bristow calleth it but that he did allowe prayer for the deade it was an error of ignoraunce euen in S. Augustine as that he thought the communion necessary for infants Cont. duas ep Pelag. lib. 2. cap. 4. As for Vigilantius I finde him not reckened ether by Epiphanius or Augustine for an heretike or for one that erred in doctrine although Hierom did write so bitterly against him who likewise did write against Augustine and Ruffinus yet are nether of both accompted for heretikes And AErius as he helde some truth with vs against prayer for the deade so helde he also much popishe superstition and errour for like the order of Carthusians they of his sect admitted none to their felowship but such as professed
continence so renounced the world that they possessed nothing in proper As testifieth Epiphanius and Augustine And Philaster affirmeth that they absteyned also from cating of flesh So that all thinges considered Aerius mainteyned the doctrine of the Papistes as much as of the Protestantes That our preachers in pulpits praise God for the founders of colledges and schooles of learning by name what maketh this for allowance of their religion God is to be praised for such benefits as he hath bestowed vpon his church or any members thereof euen by Turks and Heathen men Wherfore this is a very slow motiue vnto Popery For whether the founders were good or euill men and what intent soeuer they had their benefits are now vsed to the glory of God therefore God for them and their benefits is greatly to be praised The 37. motiue hath neuer a demaund that I can aptly referre vnto it The only knowne vndoubted mother of Christs children for a thousand yeares together The church is euerlasting and visible The Popish church hath not only bene y e only known church and vndoubted mother of Christes children for these thousand yeares First because it is not of so many yeares continuaunce the mysterie of iniquitie hauing not bene in highest degree of wickednesse before the councell of Constance where notwithstanding the institution of Christ and the practise of the primitiue church the communion of the Lordes bloud was taken from the people Secondly the Popish church was neuer acknowledged by all the true children of Christes church for their mother which was a steppemother and a persecuter of them Thirdly the Popish church was neuer y e only reputed church or mother of Christs children of all them that professe Christianitie for the churches of the East as great and as large as she was in the West woulde neuer so accompt the Popish steppedame of Rome but did separate them selues from her communion Fourthly the Catholike church of Christes members dispersed ouer all the world vnder the tyranny both of the Turke the Pope haue in all times protested that y e Romish Apostolical synagoge is the whore of Babylon and see of Antichrist The places of Mich. 4. and Esa 61. which he citeth to proue that the church must be alwayes visible you shall finde aunswered with many other in mine ouerthrow of Stapletons fortres lib. 1. cap. 13. And wheras Bristow confesseth that a mist may hide an hil that is neuer so high from some wicked sighted men that are without it but neuer from them that are within it no meruaâ—le if the spirituall church of Christ being lifted vp aboue the top of all hills not in worldly glory but euen vnto heauenly dignitie hath long remained hid from them that haue no spirituall eyes at all But Bristow thinketh it strauÌ„ge that a mist should continue a thousand yeres together Then I aske him what hath hindered the greatest parte of all the worlde seduced by Mahometistrie and Gentilitie that for these thousand yeres they haue not seene the height of the Popish church If he say not a mist about their church but a blindnesse in the others eyes to be the cause the same I aunswere for the Catholike dispersed church of Christ which the Papistes pretend that this thousand yeares they could not see Although as I haue often sayd Papistry is not halfe so olde in the greatest heresies and absurdities which now she maynteyneth The 38. motiue is the 24. demaund also the 48. and the 17. Celebration operation of Christes death The sacrifice of Bristow the masse Priestâ—oode VVhere Christ worketh Only faytâ— Exorcising of deuills In the Popish churchis no celebration but a derogation of the merite of Christs death by the blasphemous sacrifice of the masse But Bristow in the 24. demaunde asketh vs whether we be content to trie religion by the Priesthood that hath bene froÌ„ the beginning of Christs church I answere that we must first consent of the name of Priest and Priesthoode whereof also in the same demaunde he cauilleth that we haue chaunged the name therefore haue chaunged the order The name I say of Priesthood Priest must be coÌ„sidered either according to the Etymologie deriuation or els according to the present vse thereof And according to the deriuation we coÌ„fesse y t this word Priest coÌ„ming of the greeke word Presbyteros signifieth the same oâ—der which is instituted by God like as the word Bishop câ—mming of Episcopus for which if any man vse the name of Elder superintendent he varieth nothing in the worlde from the signification of Presbyter and Episcopus and much lesse setteth vp a new order as Bristow most vainly doth cauill For in that sence we abhorre not the name of Priest Bishop But when according to the present vse this word Priest is takeÌ„ for him which in greke is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and in Latine Sacerdos that is one appointed to offer a special sacrifice for which our English tongue hath none other worde but Priest as Bristow doth well confesse In this sence we deny that we haue any speciall Priesthoode or Priestes among vs but the only Priesthoode and high Priest our Lorde and Sauiour Iesus Christ and the generall Priesthoode that is common to all the Saynctes of God Apoc. 16. But in the former sence we haue the same office of Bishoppe Elder or Priest which being ordeyned by the holy Ghost hath continewed in the church vntill this time But this will Bristowe disproue by two reasons First that auncient Bishoppes and Priestes were made by Bishoppès and Priestes and not by Kinges and Queenes secondly they were made to offer sacrifice and euen for the deade Concerning the first it is true that the auncient Priestes were so ordeyned but it is a most impudent slaunder that we are made Bishoppes or Priests by Kinges or Queenes For the worlde knoweth we are ordeyned by the Bishoppes and Elders of the church and not by the Prince But that the auncient Bishoppes and Elders of the church since Christ were ordeyned to offer sacrifice for the quicke and the dead it is vtterly false For albeit the auncient writers vnproperly vsed the names of Priest and sacrifice yet did they neuer meane to set vp a newe Priesthoode or sacrifice to ouerthrowe the only true Priesthode and sacrifice of Christes death as in many places of their writinges most manifestly doth appeare but only they did continew a memory of the sacrifice of Christes death in the celebration of the Lordes supper Chris. ad Heb. cap. 10. Hom. 17. and a sacrifice of prayse and thankesgeuing August De ciuit Dei lib. 10. cap 6. Hoc est sacrificium Christianorum multi vnum corpus sumus in Christo quod etiam Sacramento altaris fidelibus noto frequentat ecclesia vbi ei demonstratur quod in ea oblatione quam offâ—rt ipsa offeratur This sayth Augustine speaking of the sacrifice of thankesgeuing is the
sacrifice of Christians we being many are one bodie in Christ which thing also the church frequenteth in the Sacrament of the altar well knowne to the faithfull where it is shewed vnto her that in the same oblation which she offereth she her selfe is offered Likewise cap. 20. speaking of the sacrifice of Christes death he sayth Per hoc Sacerdos est ipse offerens ipse oblatio Cuius rei sacramentum quotidianum esse voluit ecclesiae sacrificium cum ipsius corporis ipse sit caput ipsius capitis ipsa sit corpus tam ipsa per ipsum quam ipse per ipsam suetus offerri By this also he is a Priest he him selfe offering and he him selfe being the oblation Of which thing he would haue the dayly sacrifice of the church to be a Sacrament seeing that of her beinge his bodie he is the heade and of him being her heade she is the bodie as well she by him as he by her being accustomed to be offered So that the errour of praying for the deade which preuayled within three hundreth yeares after Christ was at the first without blasphemie of sacrificing the bodye of Christ for the quicke and the deade In this foure and twentie demaunde Bristowe as keth further whether in the auncient Church there were not Subdeacons Acolytes Exorcistes dore keepers c. I aunswere there were such offices appoynted for ayde of diuerse partes of the ministerie whereof the Papistes reteyne only the names without any exercise of the offices And the offices were suche for the most parte as were proper for the tyme of persecution and as they had no instruction of the worde of God but were ordeyned by the Church so by the Church they are thought vnnecessarie In the forty eight demaunde which is a parte of this motiue he asketh whether their Church only hath not grace in her Sacramentes merite in her workers force in her worde power in her teaching her children the saddest sorte of people men of best order in families townes and cities c. I aunswere the Popish Church hath no Sacraments but such as she falsely vsurpeth namely the Sacrament of baptisme which as Augustine sayth against the Donatistes may be geuen out of the true Church but hath no vertue or grace but in the true Church As for merite of workes is blasphemous agaynste the mercie of God Vnde mihi tantum meriti est sayth Ambrose Ad virgin exhort cui indulgentia pro coronaest Whence shoulde I haue so great merite seeing mercie is my crowne And touching force of her worde and power of her teaching if there were not greater terrour of her tyrannie and allurement in her worldly glorie she shoulde haue fewer partakers For except the efficacie of errour which God hath sent for the punishment of the vnbeleeuing worlde she hath no power of the worde of God nor of his holy spirite to conuert the hearts of men to Christe but externall intisements like Mermaydes songes to seduce men to their destruction And as for her Children the Papists although some bee more modest then the reste as ther be euen among the Turkes and Heathen none ate more light vaine disordered proude proude deceitfull couetous worldly luxurious malicious and cruell not onely at Rome and abrode where they bee in their ruffe but euen heere in Englande where they haue not all their will I except a fewe which beeing deceiued not of malice but of ignoraunce God in time may bring to the knowledge of the trueth if they be not dissemblers and seeke by all meanes to absent themselues from it Furthermore how e maliciously he slaundereth the Church of God let God himselfe reuenge where hee sayth we haue no preaching of Penaunce no grace in sacramentes nothing but sinne in good woorkes although they be doone in Christe No power to bringe vnder Deuils no blessing no comforte yea that all followers bee they neuer so wicked and flagitious haue they onely fayth and no doubte they shall bee saued And yet the forgetfull Lyer confesseth afterwarde that wee affirme that true fayth cannot bee without true and perfect doctrine nor without good woorkes But what Fayth doe you preach or teach sayth Bristowe Not that Christian fayth which is conteyned in the Articles of our Creede but a speciall Fayth or an vudoubted perswasion that hee is predestinate How soeuer therefore it bee that Bristowe is disposed for to lye and rayle they that either heare our Sermons or reade our Bookes of Iustification by Faith onely doe knowe that wee teach none other Faith by which a manne may bee iustifyed but euen that Faith which is onely contayned in the Articles of our Creede The very firste woorde whereof I beleue teacheth not the implicite faith of the papists but a speciall and singular faith and truste that euerye Christian man must haue in God the father and in Iesus Christ which was conceiued borne deade risen againe c. for vs and in the holy Ghoste by whome the vertue of Christes conception natiuirie suffring death resurrection and assention is communicated to vs beeing members of the Catholike church in which we receiue forgiuenes of sinnes and thereby beeing made righteous wee receiue the rewarde of righteousnesse which is the resurrection vnto glory and the life euerlasting which was prepared for vs before the world was made which faith no blasphemous heretikes can haue that deny any of these Articles what perswasion soeuer they haue w c faith the Papists haue not which neuer put their trustin God by Iesus Christe but in their owne woorkes c nor yet haue any certaintie of their saluation whereas all they that truely put their trust in God shall not be confounded From which faith the Papists are so farre that they think it not conuenient that the people should know and rehearse the articles of the Creede in the mother toung although nowe of late they haue set foorth English cathechismes as Apes of the true Church not that their Disciples might haue more knowledge seing they hold that ignorance is the mother of Deuotion but that they see they cannot though for shame they would conceale this knowledge from them And when they cannot hinder them of the knoweledge of the Articles of faith howe I pray you doe they teach them to beleeue them Euen with an historicall faith which is none others then such as the deuill beleeueth namely that there is one God that Iesus Christe was borne crucyfied ascended into Heauen c. In the 17. Demaunde he asketh vs whether we reade not that the Christians of the Primitiue church had an ordinary power and office to cast out diuels which we acknowledge that we haue not but the Papistes haue To this I aunswere that in the Primitiue church were diuerse giftes of healing casting out of Deuils working of miracles which were temporall and are long since ceased to be ordinary and therefore wee doe in deede confesse that we haue no such ordinary power
Neither doe we beleue that the papists haue any such what iugling or counterfaiting of miracles soeuer is among them their forgery hath to often beene tryed to their shame To conclude our Church hath Christ and his spirit and therefore all graces blessings whatsoeuer Christ hath promised to be perpetuall in the same to the saluation of his elect and the glory of his name The 39. motiue is in parte contayned in the 48. demaund Teaching the narrowe way and liuing after it VVho be Bristow nowe followers of Protestants VVhy there bee so many â—itheisti in England England beware of destruction The doctrine of Purgatory and satisfaction of Gods wrath by workes of our owne or of other mens The doctrine of pardons the doctrine of Grace giuen by sacraments Exopere operato The sacrifice of the masse c. are doctrines that teach the brode way leading vnto destruction while they bring men into securitie and confidence in vaine helpes And that is the cause that Papists and Popes themselues of all other haue beene and are the most wicked The number of Atheists that are in England are not made but discerned by the preaching of the Gospel And yet neither are there so many nor so impudent professors of Atheisme in England as there be in Italie and euen in Rome it selfe Where the Pope hath beene condemned in generall councell for an Atheist as Iohn the 23. in the councell of Constaâ—s Where Pope Leo counteth the Gospell for a fable of Christ. Pope Iuly will eate hogges fleshe in despight of God The sinnes I confesse of England are greate and such as call to God for vengeance without heartie repentance and the greatest sinne is ingratitude in the multitude refusing sincerly to imbrace the Gospell and in other hypocrisie which abusing the name of the Gospell haue an outwarde shewe of godlynesse but deny the power thereof Yet is there bothe in the state whiche Bristowe moste traitorously doth slaunder and in the Church of England yea in the Realme of Englande more sinceritie fidelitie honestie Charitie humilitie Chastitie and godlinesses and lesse Athesme infidelitie crueltie pride ryote whoredome swearing and foâ—swearing Couetousnesse sacriledge and all manner of wickednesse more I say of vertue and lesse of vice in England at this time then is or hath beene at any time with in those fiue hundred yeeres in Rome or Italie So that if a Booke were made as Bristow seemeth to threaten of the behauiour of the worst and moste counterfaite Protestantes in Englande yet shall it neuer bee founde so vile and abhominable as are the lyues of the moste of the Popes themselues set foorth not by Protestants in our dayes but by all popish storyes before we were borne The 40. motiue hath no speciall demand aunsvvering to it Obedient subiects In what Church is Christianitie of all lawes which was Sainct Augustines Motiue Obedience of the Catholikes to their superiours bothe ecclesiastieall and temporall Protestantes be malignours of higher powers If this Motiue had beene sette foorth before the Rebellion in the North or if so many trayterouse practises from Rome hadd not beene openly discouered peraduenture Bristowe might haue moued some mountaines by it But nowe Quis tulerit Gracchum de seditioue loquentâ—m Who canne abide the Papistes to bragge of Obedience Yet both the ciuill Lawe and the common Lawe of Englande are made to serue popishe Religion if wee will beleeue Bristowe God bee thanked they bothe serue the Church of God not onely in Englande but in all other Realmes and states that haue embraced the Gospell the ciuill and municipall Lawes without any alteration of the state saue for the aduancement of Gods glory But Protestants hee sayth bee Maligners of the higher powers such as Sainct Iude calleth contemners of Lordeshippe and blasphemers of Maiestie Or else the Papistes be such in that blasphemouse Bull for which Felton was hanged in which are so vile opprobrious and contumelious slanders of our Prince that for her honour and my dueties sake I will not vouchsafe to name them Hee obiecteth vnto vs Knoxes Booke against the regement of women which was but his priuate opinion and condemned of all our Church and of the Churche of Geneua also Hee obiecteth the ciuill warres in Fraunce in which the Kinges themselues haue alwayes in publique instrumentes discharged the Protestants of all disloyaltie and acknowledged that whatsoeuer they did in taking Armes they did it in the seruice of them and of their Realme As for the murdering of great Personages Wasting of Cities and Countries c. the worlde knoweth whether partie is chargeable with the crime And to seeke no farther proues of the trayterous and disobedient heartes of all wicked and pernitiouse Papistesâ— Bristow him selfe confesseth in this motiue that they be duely discharged from subiection and the Prince from dominion by the soueraigne authoritie of the common Paster of Religion But where in the Deuils name hath your soueraigne Pastor and Prelate of Rome such authoritie From Peter Did Peter discharge the subiectes of Nero from subiection or Nero from his gouernment although he were a moste wicked persecutor of the Church or rather doth he not commaund all persons to obey him 1. Pet 2. 14. 17. O trayterous hypocrites which haue made all whole wheÌ„ you pray for the Princes conuersion so deposed by your Pope The Lord our God defende our soueraigne as well from your prayers as from your practises Another argument of your obedience you shew where you saye that of Catholikes throughly discharged of their fealtic yet for common humanitie for their accustomed vse for their coÌ„tinuall as it were naturall institution the prince is better obeyed and scrued then of the Protestants which in heart are in a manner all Puritants Note heere that Papists professe them selues to be subiects of curtesie not of dutie of custome not of conscience of naturall institution not of the lawe of God Our Lord and sauiour send her maiestie few such subiects and seruants The 41. motiue is the 19. demaund The Church to which Princes doe homage The true Catholike church of Christ is that church of which it was prophecied that Kinges and Queenes shoulde be the nurse thereof and as obedient children doe homage thereto as to the mother of all the faithfull To this church the olde and first Christianed Emperours Constantius Iouianus Theodosius Valentinianus c. submitted them selues as obedient children To this church at this day many Kinges and Queenes doe homage and are nurses thereof as the Princes of England Scotland Denmarke Sueuon Saxonie But Bristow obiecteth against vs y t our Princes are not taught obedience to the Church but truely seduced by the title of heade and supreme gouernours of the Church To this I aunswere that this title of headshippe and gouernaunce of particular Churches is none other but such as they may and ought to holde with their obedience vnto the vniuersall Church Yea their
gouernment is such as therein they serue God and the Church in compelling by lawe and authoritie all persons to doe their duties as well in religion as in ciuill affayres Not an antichristian tyranny such as the Pope vsurpeth to be Lords ouer our faith and to make Articles of Religion at their pleasure but to prouide that all thinges may be doone according to the word of God But Bristow replyeth that it was not the Popish church vnto whome Constantine and the rest of the Christian Emperours yeelded vp the imperiall Cittie of Rome with all the countrie of Italie What an impudent lye this is may easely be knowen of all them which haue read the historyes which testifie that the Emperors of Constantinople receiued possession in Rome and Italy vntill the time of Charles the great which was made Emperour by the Pope In the demaunde Bristowe asketh if the first Christian Emperonrs Constantinus Theodosius were not in all pointes of the popishe Religion I answere that although they were infected with a few errors as prayer for the deade c yet in the substance of Christian Religion they beleeued the same that wee beleeue of Iustification by faith onely of the vertue of Christes sacrifice once offred for all of the authoritie of the holy Scriptures and were enemies to the Papistes in their chiefe Principle of the Popes supremacie the carnall presence transubstantiation priuate Masse Communion in one kinde Images Prayers in vnknowen language and many other As for the lycence that Bristowe woulde haue vs procure for them to appeare with vs before the Queenes highnesse to dispute whether the firste Christian Emperors were not altogither Papists is nothing else but a popishe bragge whiche if it were procured they would delude the whole purpose with such Cauillations as they did in the Conference offered vnto them at Westminster in the firste yeere of her Maiesties raigne where after they had hearde our side once reade their Booke they were so discouraged that they durst abide no more tryall but shamefully and obstiantely cleane gaue ouer the conference The 42. motiue is parte of the 47. demaund The Parliament Church and Religion Sainct Peter excluded out of Englande by Parliament Yea Christe Peter and Paule and other Apostles excluded out of Englande by Parliament The Apostles were of our Religion Howe Sainct Augustine should be vsed in England by the Parliament lawe if he were there liuing Of what Religion and authoritie the Fathers are Succession Protestants contrary to them salues Wee must consider sayth Bristowe what Church that is where Lawes be made to charge Peter if hee were liuing to giue vppe his commission receiued of Christ and to take another of the Kinge or Queene and to charge him and his fellowe Apostles to leaue the true seruice which they had receiued and to minister after an other sorte as the Paliament lawe prescribeth To this I aunswere we will bee tryed by the writinges of Peter and his fellow Apostles that the Parliament lawe for Religion and seruice of God concernig the substance thereof vrgeth not Peter to chaunge his commission nor to vse any other seruice then they them selues haue taught vs to vse If Augustine were aliue and in Englande hee was a man of such modestie and loue of the trueth that seeing the same plainly reuealed out of the holy Scriptures hee woulde retracte his errour of Prayer for the deade as when hee lyued hee retracted and sette foorth manye thinges wherein he founde that he hadde erred As for the fine of an hundred Markes he woulde not haue lefte nor beene depriued of his Byshoprike and imprysoned for saying of the popishe Masse for hee neuer sayde any in his life but was an vtter enemye to the chiefe poyntes thereof allowing nothing therof but prayer for the deade at the celebration of the Lords supper And for as our Sauiour Iesus Christ the King of all Kinges and Lorde of all Lordes and the onely ruler of Heauen and earth doe you thinke that hee wyll not complaine that hee onely by Parliament lawe is acknoweledged to bee the heade of his vniuersall Church and so continually present therewith by his holy spirit that he neede no viear generall of a mortall manne which canne occupye but one place although he were neuer so diligent and painfull to discharge his dutie in that behalfe For his diuine and spirituall authoritie is not excluded vnder the name of forraine power as Bristowe not more slaunderously then ridiculously affirmeth Yet hee pleaseth him selfe so much in so greate folly and madnesse that hee sayth Christe coulde not clayme to be heade of his Church excepte he should clayme to be the naturall Kinge of Englande and to haue sayde vnto Pylate My kingdome is of this world and thy maister Caesar doth me wronge As though the King of Englande by title of his royall power clayming to be the chiefe Seruaunte or deputie of Christe in gouerning his Churche according to his worde did exclude the soueraignitie of Christe which he hath ouer his Church and elect wheresoeuer they are vpon the face of the earth But the Protestantes sayth Bristowe are contrary to them selues while they say that our Prince is Kinge of France aswel as of England and Ireland yet say not that he is heâ—de of the Church of Fraunce but onely of the Church of England and Irelande And is Bristowe such a profound Logitian that he cannot distinguishe a Kinge in right onely from a King in actuall gouerment If our Prince had as good possession of the gonernmente of Fraunce as hee hath title of right to haue it hee shall be gouernour of the Church of Fraunce as well as of the Church of Englande and Ireland That hee sayth we haue beene from hence at the Apostles going so long a iorney without any footing in the way it is a foolish cauel for wee haue often shewed succession of doctune euen from the Apostles from whome it is receiued The 43. Motiue is parte of the 47. demaunde Communion of Saintes Christendom shut out of England by Parliament Councels Sainct Paule might not write ad Anglos for the Paâ—lâ—ament The Church of Englande is not so straythened or pinched within the lymites of one Kingdombut that she beleeueth and inioyeth the communion of all the Sainctes of God as a member of the vniuersal church of Christe And therefore I meruail what collour Bristowe hath for those slaunders that one Christian man in Englande in spirituall affayres is a straunger to another that generall Councels haue no authoritie in it that Sainct Paule or all the Apostles if they were lyuing might not write to the Englishmen aswell as to the Romaines Galathians Corinthians c. that Christe without the consente of the Kinge and the Parliament might not dispose his owne Church These vaine and impossible suppositions could not come but from a grosse and foolish inuention of one that lacketh argumentes to proue his cause The lawes
are made according to that which is namely the trueth set foorth in the holy Scriptures not according to that which euery foole will fondly suppose or imagine The 44. Motiue is the 49. demaund The Church that all Chrsstes enemies fight against Englande ioyneth with Christes enemyes againste Christendome VVhat Religion the Iowes impunge as the Religion of Christ. Christ is to bee beleeued for conuerting of Emperours and powers from their Idols to serue his seruauntes The Church is euerlasting and visible Saincte Augustines motiue Emperors turned from their Idols and praying at Peeters sepulchre and the Christianitie of humane lawes Sainct Augustine of our Religion Protestants bee of many olde heresies The popish Church was not persecuted by the heathen Emperous but the Catholike church of Christ The popish Church is not of so great antiquitie that shee had then any shewe in the worlde although the misterie of iniquitie did then woorke and euen in the Apostles time The Heathens Turks and Iewes doe no more hate the popish church then they doe the church of God which is in England The warres against the Turke be at this day maintained by the states of Germany which are of our religioÌ„ aswel as by the Papists That there is no publike ayde sent against the Turk out of England it is not in any allowaunce of Turkish religion but because the state seeth it not necessary neither was there any publike ayde sente an hundreth yeeres be ore the reuolte from Papistrie And yet euen in the Queenes maiesties raigne there hath gone ayde out of England against Soliman which died at the siege of Segesto where diuers noble Gentlemen of Englande goinge on their owne charges as Bizia testifieth wan more true glory then they that 2. or 3. hundred yeeres before vpon a superstitious vowe were signed with the crosse to fight against the Saracens for the possession of the earthly Ierusalem How often shall I aunswer that the first christian Emperours were not conuerted from Idolatry to Christianitie by the popish Church but the later Christian Emperours by her haue bene peruerted from the true worship of God vnto Idolatry That the Emperours being conuerted from Idolatry did pray at Peter the fishermans sepulchre as Augustine sayth it sheweth the vertue of y e Gospel of Christ that had made so great alteration in them but nothing at all proueth the authoritie or any error of the popish Church for Augustine sayth not that they prayed vnto Peter but at the sepulcher of Peter meaning in the Church that was builded vpon the place that was supposed to be the buriall of Peter The lawes that those Emperours made against Idolaters may well serue against the Papistes w c are as grosse in all kindes of Idolatry as the Gentills for the most part were Finally it was not y e popish Church but the Church of Christ that suppressed the heresies of the Arrians Sabellians Nestorians c. But Iouinian did let out of hell Priestes and Nunnes mariage which gate not the Church of Protestantes but our Church sayth Bristow hath stopped The Church that striued against Iouinian was nether for mariage of Priestes of whom many thowsands were maryed in that tyme yea and a thowsande yeares after nor yet for mariage of such as had vowed virginitie and could not contayne when both Epiphanius the hatchet of heresies and Hierome that greatest aduersary of Iouinian agree that they ought to marye Epiph. cont Apostolicoshaer 61. Hierom ad Demetriadem Nether were Epiphanius Philaster and Augustine which disalow the opinion of Aerius concerning prayers for the dead members of the popish church for this one error which they held seeing they hold the principall substance of religion against the Papists and agreeable to the word of God That Bristow sayth in the demaund VVe count Turkes Iewes and very Atheistes for our frendes and all that be not Papistes it is a most detestable slaunder The Anabaptistes burned in Smithfield were no Papistes the blasphemer of Christ lately burned at Norwiche was no Papist whose sharpe execution sheweth that heretikes blasphemers and Atheistes when they are discouered finde no friendship at the handes of Christes Church but such as they deserue Finally the Easterne Church which of long tyme hath bene separated from the Romish communion hath as great enemies of the Turkes heathen and Iewes as the Popish Church hath yet will not the Papistes allow it for the Catholike Church The 45. motiue conteyneth the 31. 32. 33. 40. demaundes Euer visible and Catholike Vniuersalitic Antiquitie Consent Protestants were neuer before this tyme. They are ashamed of their fathers Hus was not a Protestant VVicklefe was not a Protestant VVicklefe condemned by Melancthon Prophecy for our religion No Scripture against the Catholikes but all for them Here is nothing but the old popish bragge of vniuersalitie antiquitie and consent which is as easily denied as it is allwayes alleaged without proofe Sauing that in the demaundes they are sundered as though euery one of them without the other two were a sufficient triall of truth which nether Vincentius nor Optatus nor Augustine nor any that vsed this argument did euer meane But that is truth which being most auncient hath at all tymes of all true Christians by general consent bene receyued But this can not be proued of any one error of poperye For if any of these three be omitted the argument is of no force to proue truth All nations by generall consent embraced Idolatrie yet was the true worship of God which was knowen onely in Iurye the more auncient The worship of Iupiter was more auncient then the honor of Christ shewed in the flesh and more vniuersally receyued but not of the true worshippers of God As for generall councells which in the demaund of consent he sayth to be all against the Protestants he is not able to shewe one approued generall councel that was held within six hundreth yeares after Christ that decreed any thing contrary to that which we beleue in any poynt But confessing that in many ages some there haue bene in some poyntes of our opinion yet he sayth we can shewe no lyneall succession but leape from Luther to Christ without any recorde of our religion in all the meane tyme hauing no monument of such Church nether in leafe or lyne of seruice booke As one that loueth antiquities well I would fayne see what leaues the Papistes can shewe of their seruice bookes to proue a lyneall descâ—nt from Christ to Pope Gregory the 13 when Bristow sweareth perdie to agree in all poyntes with Pope Leo the tenth which was in Luthers tyme some of their seruice being made by Thomas Aquinas some by Fulbertus some taken out of Beda some out of Gregory some out of Augustine some out of Hieronyme some out of Iohn Chrysostom and of Ambrose and the eldest I thinke not of Origen which argueth nether antiquitie nor vniuersalitie to stand with the popish seruice as for
because they are found in some holy men as in S. Athanasius Epiphanius Augustine c. Although these opinions are but fewe in comparison of so many articles of religion in whiche we dissent from the Papistes which if they coulde be founde in heretikes we should soone heare of them yet what Logike is in this conclusion of Bristow you shall see by examples of the like and euen of the same heretikes Aerius as Augustine reporteth out of Philastre did also receiue into his felowship none but suche as wete continent and had so renounced the worlde that they possessed nothing in common likewise they abstayned from fleshe The very same doth Bernarde report of the heretikes called Apostolike that they rereuerenced mariage and abstayned from all flesh and whitemeates In canti ser. 66. This diuelishe seede prophecied before to be the note of Antichristian hypocrites grew in many heretikes before the time of the Papistes and not these only but many other also Worshipping of Images in Carpocratians Ep. 1. lib. 1. T. 2. prefat contr Gnostic 27. 29. The superstitious estimacion of the crosse in the Valentinians Epiph. Ho. 31. Transubstantiation of the wine into blood in Marcus and the Marcosians Ireâ—aeus lib. 1 cap. 9. Prayer for the deade in the Montanistes Tert. de Monon de Anima c. Inuocation of Angells in the Caianites and many other Popishe plantes were first sowne by the deuill in elder heretikes And yet were this no good argument to confute these opinions or errors because they are founde in heretikes except they were found to be contrarie to the word of God All is no heresie whatsoeuer an heretike hath affirmed for there was neuer heretike but affirmed much truth neither is all truth that is affirmed by euery Sainct and holy man for not one of the ancient writers but is acknowledged to haue affirmed some vntruth Only the holy Scripture ought to haue this preheminence as Augustine sayth that it may iudge of all sayings and writings it selfe being iudged of none because it is the word of God which can not erre or be deceaued Cont. Crescon gram lib. 2. cap. â—â— But Bristowe hath Scripture to proue that he which denyeth prayer for the dead being found among the Arrians Anabaptists can not choose but be bouÌ„d in bundells with them and cast into the fire Mat. 13. In deede he that is an Arrian or Anabaptist shal not escape for denying prayer for the deade But the Angells that are the reapers are not so vnskilfull but that they can discerne true Christians denying the abuse of prayers for the dead which the Scripture doth not admit from blasphemous heretikes among a great number of falsehoodes affirming some truth But it is a sore matter that he sayth The verie worst sorte of heretikes of this time as the Anabaptistes Trinitaries yea the verie Epicures and Atheistes were first Protestantes ye such they be and will seeme to be still He had spoken more truly if he had sayd they were first Papistes But what heretikes and Atheistes woulde seeme to be it is no dishonor to our cause seeing all hypocrits would seeme to be true Christians That only Papistes are troubled in our countrie and all other sectes tollerated and mainteyned the publike execution and punishment of Anabaptistes and other blasphemous sectes as the Familie of Loue c. doth playnly proue to be false and Bristow to be a shamelesse slaunderer The 47. motiue is the 50. demaund Sure to continue The church is euerlasting and visible Protestants do decay and shall come to nothing The churches continuaunce S. Augustines motiue England beware destruction Luther was a false Prophet I neede not to shewe how often and how vainly Bristowe repeateth one thing to make a great number of motiues The euerlasting continuaunce of the true church hath bene seuen times at least before alleaged But neither is it proued that the Popish church is that true church nor yet that any sect or companie which shall continewe to the ende of the worlde is the Catholike church of Christ. For although Antichrist is and shall be more and more consumed with the breath of the Lordes mouth which is his holie worde yet shall he not be altogether abolished vntill the ende of the worlde Yea at the ende of the worlde as our Sauiour Christ sayeth fayth shall be verie scant and hard to be founde and iniquitie shall haue the vpper hande Therefore there shall be a great church of malignant hypocrytes euen to the ende of the worlde It is true therefore that Christes church is sure to continewe but not whatsoeuer sect shall continew is thereby proued to be Christes true church How vayne his bragge is that Protestantes doe decaye and shall come to nothing by their dayly increase in all partes of the world God be thanked may be seene to all men Likewise how true it is which he affirmeth that Papistes doe increase and to such numbers euen in Englande that there are more Papistes nowe then when the Gospell was first preached notwithstandinge so many yeares preaching of vs and large silence of them who liuing in Englande can be ignoraunt I confesse there are too many obstinate Papistes in Englande whome none of Bristowes motiues hath either moued vnto Poperie or confirmed therein but onely great tolleration and lenitie which is vsed in these times But if such seueritie were vsed nowe as in times past the Pope shoulde not haue many confessors in Englande to glorie of And to say the truth what one of these Papistes dare professe what he thinketh of the Popes auctoritie because the lawe is somewhat sharpe in that poynt If the like lawe were of hearing masse we should haue as fewe suffer for masse as for the supremacie But to returne to our motiue S. Augustine doth well to send Honoratus the Manichee to followe that way of Catholike doctrine which from Christ him selfe by the Apopostles is descended vnto vs and from hence to posteritie shall descende De vtilit cred cap. 8. But that it is not the way of all Popish doctrine which neuer came from Christ nor his Apostles nor the most auncient church And if the tradition be vncerteyne how shall we know what came from Christ and his Apostles but that which we finde in the Gospell of Christ and the Epistles of his Apostles But the same Augustine sayeth Bristow biddeth the simple Donatistes to Number the Priestes euen from the verie seate of Peter and in that order of fathers see who to whom succeeded That same is the rocke which the prowde gates of Hell doe not ouercome P. S. contra Donatistas Augustine speaketh of the Catholike church which was the vine whereof the Church of Rome at that tyme was but a growing braunch For a litle before he sayth Scitis Catholica quid sit quid sit precisum a vite You knowe what the Catholike church is and what is that which is cut of from the vine But if
diuinitie Hosius sayth that this commaundement of Christe Drinke ye all of this beeing vnderstoode doth appertaine vnto laye men contrary to their Churches determination is the expresse worde of the Deuill And for departing from the faith of the Fathers c. I aunswere it is false there is but one true Faith of all true Christians in al times from which wee will neuer departe although wee haue departed from some erroneous opinions of some fathers which because they are contrary to the woorde of God by hearing whereof Faith commeth they deserue not the name of Faith Finally whereas hee sayth the authoritie of the Church is the onely witnesse of all canonicall Scriptures it is vntrue For although he should meane not the popish Sinagogue butthe true catholike church of Christ yet is it not the onely witnesse of the Scriptures For euen the Iewish Synagogue is witnesse of the olde testament and many sectes of heresies of all the scripture beside that the spirit of God is the chiefe and principall witnes of all which speaketh so euidently in allthe canonical scripture that if all mē on earth should refuse to giue credite vnto them yet his maiestie alone is sufficient to get credite vnto them especially with all those whome he teacheth inwardly in heart as he speaketh sensibly to their eares The last argument is That in place of all Religion and goodnes which they haue remoued deuising a new Gospel of their foresaid onely vaine fayth which teacheth all sinnes all heresies to presume of saluation What can bee more impudent or false then this slaunder seeing God and the worlde knoweth that wee teach none other Faith but the fayth of the Gospell which worketh by loue and promiseth remission of sinnes and saluation to none but such as earnestly repent and are willing to remoue all heresie and to imbrace all true Christian Religion and goodnesse God be praysed A DISCOVERY OF THE DAVNGEROVS ROCKE OF THE POPISH CHVRCH lately commended by Nicholas Sanders D. in diuinitie at which the Catholike Church of Christ hath bene in perill of shipwracke these many hundreth yeares By W. Fulke D. in diuinitie THE eternal rocke of the vniuersal Church Christ was the rocke an other foundation no man is able to put 1. Cor. 3. 10. The temporall rocke of the Militant Church Thou art Peter vpon this rocke I will build my Church Mat. 16. SPaule speaketh manifestly 1. Cor. 3. of building of the Church Militant and Christ Mat. 16. speaketh of an eternall rocke against the which the gates of hell shall not preuayle Therefore your distinction of eternall and temporall vniuersall and militant which is the foundation of all your rotten rocke is an impudent and blasphemous falshood Of the continuance of your temporall rocke it is in vaine to contende when your rocke is nothing els but an heape of sande and dunge whereon your popishe Church is builded To the right worshipfull M. Doctor Parker bearing the Saunder name of the Archbishop of Canterbury and to all other Protestants in the Realme of England Nicolas Sander wisheth perfect faith and charitie in our Lorde declaring in this preface that the Catholikes whome they call Papistes doe passe the Protestants in all maner of signes or markes of Christes true Church Concerning the omission of titles accustomed to be giuen to the Archbishop of Canterbury for which you excuse your selfe I thinke M. D. Parker while he liued did not much esteeme them giuen to him by any man and least of all looked to receyue them at suche mens handes as you are but touching the religion church whereof he was a minister I will aunswer you in his behalfe and of all other ministers and members thereof that no excuse will serue you vpon so slender reasons as you bringe to condemne the same of schisme and heresie nor to defend that Synagogue of Satan wherof you professe your selfe to be a Champion to be the vndefiled Church and spouse of Christ. For thinke you M. Sanders that we wil more mislike the Church of Christ persecuted by the hypocriticall crueltie of Antichrist for the space of 5. or 6. hundreth yeares before our age then we do the same persecuted by the furious rage of Heathenish tyrantes for 300. yeares after the first planting of the same amonge the Gentills And thinke you if we are now to learne that all that glory and bright shining of Christes Church promised by the Prophets is spirituall and not carnall heauenly and not earthly eternal not transitory Or that we know not your synagogue to be the very contrary kingdome and sea of Antichrist euen by that outward glory and glistering pompe of open shewe that you boast of according to the prophecy of Christ in the reuelation Apoc. 13. 17. And as for the citie built vpon an hill whereof you haue neuer doone babling by the playne context of the Gospel is not the whole Church but euery true pastor and minister thereof who are also the light of the worlde the salt of the earth and a candle set on a candlesticke to giue light not hiden vnder a bushell to be vnprofitable Mat. 5. And Christ hath alwayes bene with his Church although the Church of Rome be departed from him and he both liueth raigneth for euer ouer the house of Iacob though he be persecuted in his mēbers by the whore of Babylon and his name is great amonge the Gentilles from the Sunne rising to the going downe thereof notwithstanding that all nations haue dronke of the cuppe of her fornications The prophecyes of Gods spirit doe not one of them ouerthrow the other but the one sheweth how the other is to be vnderstanded And whereas you say our Church hath bene vnder a bushell before these fiftie yeares because no historie maketh mention of any congregation professing our faith in any townes or places of diuers cōtryes at once I aunswer this is as true as all your doctrine beside For all auncient histories that write of the state of the primitiue Church make mention of the same faith which we professe And although towarde the reuelation of Antichrist the puritie of the faith beganne to be polluted yet the substance thereof continued vntill by Antichrist that great defection apostasie was made wherof the Apostle prophecyeth 2. Thess. 2. 3. And yet euen in the tyme of that a postasie many histories make mention of the continuance of our faith and Church in diuers contryes in Europe namely England Fraunce Italy or although vnder cruell persecution and tyranny beside great nations of the East which neuer submitted them selues to the Church of Rome and yet retayned the substance of Christian faith and profession though not without particular errors and superstition Wherefore although they that were blind or farre of from the Church of Christ could not see her glory although she had bene set vpon neuer so high an hill no more then a citie built vpon the Alpes can
be seene in England yet they that had spirituall eyes and by Gods grâ—ce drewe neare vnto his Church did in the most obscure tymes as the worlde esteemeth them see the cleare bewtie of her light and the glorye of the Lordes hill lifted vp aboue all the hills in the world Esa. 2. The heathen tyrants thought by their cruell persecution that they had vtterly rooted out the name and nation of Christians from the face of the earth Nero gloried that he had purged the world of the superstition of Christ as appeareth in an olde inscription in a picture of stone Neroni â—l Caes. Aug. Pontif. Max. ob prouin latromb hijs qui nouam generi hum superstitionem inculcar purgatam To Nero Claudius Caesar Augustus the greatest Prelate for that he hath purged the prouince of theeues and them that brought in a newe superstition to mankind Likewise another like piller there is of Diocletian and Maximian in these wordes Diocletian Iouius Maximi Herculeus Caes. Augu. Amplificato per Orientem Occident nup. Rom. nomme Christianorum deleto quiremp euertebant Diocletianus Iouius and Maximianus Herculeus Caesaris Augusti hauing amplified the Empire of Rome both in the East and West and vtterly destroyed the name of Christians which did ouerthrow the common wealth Another like there is of Diocletian alone Diocletian Caes. Aug. Galerio in Oriente adoptat superstitione Christi vbique deleta cultu Deorum propagato Diocletianus Caesar Augustus hauing adopted Galerius in the East and in all places vtterly destroyed the superstition of Christ and set forth the worship of the Gods By these inscriptions and glorious titles you see that the heathenish tyrants perswaded them selues that they had vtterly defaced the religion of Christ destroyed his Church out of the worlde what maruell then if Antichrist and his adherents which to the cruelty of the former tyrants haue added most detestable hypocrisy haue thought that they had so wholy subuerted the true religion of Christ and his true Church that the name ether of Church or religion might not seeme to haue remayned in the world but that of the Romish Antichrist But as Nero the Pontif. Maximus of Rome with Diocletiane and the reste were deceyued in their time so their successors in place office and wickednes the Popes of Rome are likewise disapoynted of their cruell purpose But M. Sander glorieth that in all markes and signes of the true Church the popish Church doth excel ours But first of all that which is the onely true marke and triall of the Church namely the word of God he denyeth to be a sufficient marke of the true Church yet had he before confessed the Church to be the piller and stay of truth 1. Tim. 3. but the rule of truth if we beleue our Sauiour Christ is the word of God Iohn 17. 17. therefore the word of God is the onely true tryall and marke of the Church But let vs consider his reasons by which he woulde perswade vs that y e word of God is not the chiefe marke whereby the true Church of God may be knowen First he sayth the marke whereby an other thing is knowne ought it selfe to be most exactly knowne wheras we are not agreed what Gods word is Note this reason of his by which he taketh away all authoritie and vse from the worde of God not onely thereby to discerne the true Church but also to teache vs any other thinge that is needefull for vs to know But why I pray you are we not agreed what is Gods word Forsooth because some cal onely the written letter and the meaning thereof Gods word other thinke many thinges are Gods word which are not expressely written but deliuered by tradition from the Apostles and by the holy Ghost which hath written his lawes in our hartes of this later sort be the Papists but they are easily confuted For this principle must needes stand vnmoueable that Gods spirite is neuer contrary to him selfe Therefore seeing the spirite of God hath pronounced of the Scriptures that they are able to make the man of God perfect prepared to all good workes 2. Tim. 3. 16. it is certayne that God hath reuealed nothing by tradition for our instructioÌ„ which is not conteyned in his worde written much lesse any thing that is contrary to his doctrine deliuered in the holy Scriptures His second reason is that we are not agreed vpon the written word of God because the Protestants doe not admitte so many bookes of the olde testament as the Catholikes doe I aunswer the Protestants doe admit as many as the Catholike Church euer did or doth at this day His third reasoÌ„ is that the meaning of those bookes which we are agreed vpon is altogether in question betwene vs therfore that can be no marke of the church which it self is not knowne I answer although heretikes which are ouerthrowen in their owne conscience will acknowledge no meaning to be true but their owne yet are there many principles in the Scriptures so playne as they are graunted by both partes or els can not without shame be denyed of our aduersaries out of which playne certeyne and immutable principles all matters in controuersie may be proued and the same church also discerned which is the verie cause why the Papistes dare not abide the triall by the Scriptues but flye to traditions euen as their forefathers the auncient Valentinian heretikes of whome Irenaeus writeth lib. 3. cap. 2. Cum ex Scripturis arguuntur in accusationem conuertuntur ipsaruÌ„ Scripturam quasi non rectè habeant neque fuit ex auctoritate quia variè sunt dictae quia non possit ab his inueniriveritas qui nesciant traditionem non enim per literas traditam sed per viuam vocem When they are conuinced out of the Scriptures then fall they to accusing of the Scriptures them selues as though they were not right nor of sufficient authoritie because they are spoken doubtfully and that the trueth cannot be found of them which knowe not the tradition for that was not deliuered by letters but by word of mouth Thus much Ireneus of the olde Heretikes and what his iudgement was of the meaning of the Scripture which M. Sand. maketh so ambiguous he declareth lib. 2. cap. 35. Vniuersae scripturae Propheticae Euangelicae in aperto sine ambiguitat similiter ab omnibus audiri possunt c. The whole Scriptures both of the Prophets and of the Gospells are open and without ambiguitie may be heard of all meÌ„ alike This speaketh Irenaeus not of euery text of Scripture but of the whole doctrine of the Prophets and Apostles which is so playne and easie to be founde in the Scriptures that no man can misse thereof that seeketh not of purpose to be deceyued as he sayth cap. 67. of the same booke But M. Sander is content for disputation sake to admit Gods word for a marke of the true Church and
will proue that it is first with the Papistes For if by Gods word we meane the written letter of the Bible they are before vs because we haue none assured copies thereof which we receyued not of them for since that day in which S. Peter and S. Paule deliuered Gods word to the Romaines the Church of Rome hath alwayes kept it without leesing or corrupting I aunswer we meane not by Gods worde the written letter onely but receyuing and obeying the true and playne sense thereof to be the marke of the Church Againe I deny that we had any assured copies of the olde and new testament of the popish Church but the one of the Iewes in Hebrue the other of the Greeke Church in Greeke And whereas he talketh of a certayne daye in which S. Peter and S. Paule deliuered the Scripture to the Romains it sauoreth altogether of a popish fable finally how the Romish Church in these last dayes hath kept the Scripture from corruption although I coulde shew by an hundreth examples yet this one shall suffice for all the very first promise of the Gospell that is in the Scripture Gen. 3. that the seede of the woman shoulde breake the serpents heade the popish Church hath ether willfully corrupted or negligently suffered to be depraued thus ipsa conteret caput iuum she shall breake thyne heade referring that to the woman which God speaketh expressely to the seede of the woman The second marke is that the Papistes acknowledge more of the Bible then we doe by the bookes of Toby Iudeth Wisedom Ecclesiasticus and of the Machabees I aunswer in that you adde vnto the word of God it is a certayne argument that you are not the true Church of Christ for the true Church of Christ hath euer accompted those bookes for apocryphall witnesse hereof Hieronym praef in prouerb Sicut ergo Iudith Tobiae Machabaeorum libros legit quidem Ecclesia sed eos inter Canonicas Scripturas non recipit sic haec duo volumina legat ad aedificationem plebis non ad auctoritateÌ„ EcclesiasticoruÌ„ dogmatum confirmandam Therefore as the Church doth in deede reade the bookes of Iudith Tobias and of the Machabees but she receyueth them not among the canonicall Scriptures so she may reade these two bookes meaning the booke of Wisedom and Ecclesiasticus for the edifying of the people but not to confirme the authoritie of Ecclesiasticall opinions Nether is Augustine de doct Christ. lib. 2. cap. 8. whoÌ„ M. Sander quoteth of any other iudgement but prescribeth rules how the canonicall Scriptures are to be knowne And cont Gaudent epist. lib. 2. cap. 23. he confesseâ—h plainely that the booke of Machabees is not accompted of the Iewes as the law the Prophets and the Psalmes which our Sauiour Christ admitteth as his witnesses yet it is receyued of the Church if it be read or heard soberly Whereby it is manifest that the Church in his tyme receyued it not absolutely as part of the Canonicall Scripture but vnder condition of a sober reader or hearer As for the decree ascribed to Gelasius it hath no sufficient credit of antiquitie and much lesse the late councels of Florence and Trent which he quoteth Beside that the same decree of Gelasius admitting but one booke of Esdras excludeth the Canonicall booke of Nehemias and receyueth but one booke of the Machabees which will doe the Papistes but small pleasure The third marke the popish Church receyueth not only the hebrue text of the old testament the greeke of the new but also the greeke translation of the septuaginta and the common Latine translation to be of full authoritie whereas we giue small credit to those translations except they agree with the first Hebrue and Greeke copies Therefore the Papists haue Gods word in more authenticke tongues and copies then we haue I aunswer The Tridentine councell alloweth none for authenticall but the common Latine translation that is the worst of all but in that the popish Church admitteth differing translations from the originall truth of the Hebrue and Greeke text to be of full authoritie with the truth it appeareth plainely that she is not the Church of Christ which ether willfully confoundeth error with truth or els lacketh the spirite of discretion to know the one from the other And for more authentike copies it is impudently sayd that the Papistes doe receiue for we receiue not onely all these which he nameth but also the most auncieÌ„t Chaldee Paraphrastes the Syrian text of the new testament yea the Arabicall text of the whole Bible beside all vulgare translations of English French Dutch Italian Spanish which the Papistes can not abide All those I saye we receyue as authenticall copies for Christian men to vse but so that the tryall of all translations be made by the originall truthe of the Hebâ—ue and Greeke texts in which tongue the olde and newe Testament were first written Fourthly the Papistes doe translate and expounde Gods worde in all maner of tongues better then we because they haue not onely internall vocation but also externall vocation and commission from the Apostles by lyneall succession of Bishops and Preestes whereas we haue no commission but â—rom the common wealth which hath none authoritie to make Preestes c and yet how shall they preache if they be not sent Rom. 10. I aunswer concerning translations of the word of God into all tongues I neuer saw any nether is there any translation to be shewed of any Papist into any vulgare tongue And as for the externall calling of the Papistes I say it is not from any lawfull succession of the Apostles and auncient Church whose faith and doctrine they do not follow in their interpretations for if lyneall succession of Priestes and Bishops coulde make interpretations good the doctrine of Arius Nestorius Macedonius and many other heretikes whose externall calling was according to the lyneall and ordinary succession of Bishops and Priestes might be auctorised for Catholike Yea the Papistes might not refuse whatsoeuer Luther Bucer Cranmer and other haue taught which had the same lyneall succession that M. Sander doth nowe bragge of And as for our externall calling he sayth falsly it is of the common weale c whereas it is of the Church and therefore ordinarye and lawfull and the saying of S. Paule whom he citeth Rom. the tenth is of the inward calling and sending by God whereof our doctrine agreeable with the Scripture and our whole intent to set forth the glory of God is a sufficient profe the one to satisfie men the other to aunswer our owne conscience Fiftly he sayth it is no perfection at all on our side that we reade Gods word to the people in our Church seruice in the vulgare tongue for thereby we lacke the vse of the better tongues as of the Greeke and Latine O maister of impudencie what vse is there of the Greeke and Latine tongues to be read to the people
the Sacraments haue not fayth 2. Thess. 3. 2. The 8. marke of the Church if not onely the playne vnderstanding of any one sentence but also the circumstance of the place and the conference of Gods worde be necessary the Papists haue vsed it in euery question For proofe herof M. Sanders referreth vs to his treatise of the supper of the Lord lib. 4. and to his booke of Images cap. 2. 11. in this booke to the ca. 2. 4. I answer you make a light shew for a fashion but you nether coÌ„sider the circumstances rightly nor make any true collation of one place with another as is proued by the answers of these bookes Therefore your Academical conclusion is false hereticall blasphemous that the onely word of God being neuer so well handled is no sufficient marke to shew the truth When Christ sayth Sanctifie them in thy truth Thy word is the truth Ioan. 17. 17. The 9. M. Sander sayth the heads of the Church the councels the Bishops and the auncient fathers must be Iudges whether we do well apply the Scriptures or no as whether S. Peter be the rock which M. Iewel denieth he proueth by 16 doctors afterward cap. 4. of w c proofe we shall consider God willing in due place But whereas M. Sander quoteth Aug. cont Iulian. lib. 2. for his rule of Iudges I say he hath no such rule in that booke onely Augustine doth coÌ„uince the argumeÌ„ts of the Pelagians of nouelty by the iudgemeÌ„t of Iren. Cyprianus Rheuanus Ambrosius c. and other which liued before their time and therefore were no partial iudges so do we conuince the Popish heresies and their argumentes of noueltie not only by the manifest worde of God but also by the testimonie of the most auncient fathers although we may not admit all that they did write to be true euen as the same Augustine being pressed with the auctoritie of Ambrose Chrysostome and Cyprian by the Donatists Pelagians prouoketh from them onely to the Scriptures de nat graâ—cap 61. de vnit eccl cap. 16. cont Crescon lib. 2. cap. 31. de gratia Christ. cap. 43. That the allegation of the fathers suffiseth not of it selfe we agree with Maister Sander but that there is any other triall of the truth theÌ„ Scripture we wil neuer graunt seeing God hath therein deliuered his whole doctrine whatsoeuer is necessarie for vs to beleue that we may be saued Ioh. 20. 31. But the Papistes for the tenth marke ioyne tradition and practise of Gods church which can neuer deceaue amaÌ„ VVe thinke sayth Chrysostom the tradition of the church to be worthie of beleefe Is it a tradition aske no further But howe shall we proue it to be a tradition of the church The Valentinians as I shewed before out of Irenaeus denyed the Scriptures to be sufficient without knowledge of the tradition Therfore to discerne the tradition of â—â—â—â— church from the tradition of the heretikes we haue none other triall but by the Scriptures Therefore Chrysostom saith in 2. Cor. Ho. 3. that S. Paule did write the same thinges which he told them before in preaching As for the vniuersall practise either of the Popes supremacy or of the sacrifice of the masse which he braggeth of shall neuer be proued but the contrarie The eleuenth marke is the auctority of generall couÌ„cells confirming the truth condemning heretikes such he maketh the late councell of Trent to be But we deny that Conciliabulum of a few Popish hypocrits to be a generall councell in which no man should haue a definitiue voyce but they that were accused of heresie and whereof he that is most of all charged with heresie that is the Pope is made the supreme iudge wherefore the Papists haue no lawfull generall councell on their side although generall councells as he confesseth are no sufficient triall of the true church both because they may be hindered many wayes and also because they may erre as did the conncells of Arimine and Ephesus In respect of these considerations he maketh the twelfth marke to be the supremacy of the Pope whichis wholly theirs for triall whereof this booke following was written But for proofe that Christ hath appoynted such a iudge ouer all he citeth Ioan. 21. that Christ coÌ„maunded Peter to feede his sheepe as though that perteyned not to euerie one of the Apostles as much as to Peter Also Lu. 22. that Christ hauing praied that Peters faith might not fayle commaunded him when he was conuerted from his fall to confirme his brethren which perteineth only to the person of Peter and can not with any cable ropes be draweÌ„ to the Bishop of Rome or any successor of Peter for it concerneth his singular full comfort duty in respect of his fall Gods mercy except that according to analogy it may be applied to any man that is so raised after his fall and so that precept confirme thy brethren geueth no speciall commaundemeÌ„t to the Pope but to euery man whom God hath mercifully conuerted as he did Peter With the twelfth marke M. Sander would haue ended but that the Protestantes affirme the lawfull preaching of Gods word and the lawfull administration of the Sacramentes to be a marke whereby they wilbe tried But seeing lawfull preaching ministring must be tried by Gods worde M. Sander first asketh what we call Gods word secondly he asketh if he haue not proued it to be more with theÌ„ theÌ„ with vs whatsoeuer it be It is like this Popishe academicall Atheist hath proued Gods word to be on his side â—â—â—â— wil not haue it certeinly known what Gods word is After this he will proue the Papists to be most lawfull preachers because they are likest to the Apostles in conuerting many nations within these 900. yeres wheÌ„ he sayth no man aliue could once heare vs peepe As though controuersie of nations would argue a true church By which reasons not only the Protestants may nowe proue them selues to be most like the Apostles in conuerting so many nations of Europe but also the Arians and most of all the Mahumetists might proue them selues the true church It is not therfore coÌ„uersion of nations but conuersion of theÌ„ to the true doctrine of the Apostles which maketh vs like the Apopostles the Papistes Arians Mahometists most vnlike vnto them And where he saith that no souÌ„d of ours was heard in 900. yeares space by any man aliue to see how impudeÌ„tly he lyeth read Flaccius Illyricus in catalogo testium veritatis you shal see in all ages what monumeÌ„ts are extant of some few whom God reserued from that generall Apostasie of Antichrist Read also the acts monumentes set forth by M. Foxe you shall see the same most plentifâ—lly He wil proue their administration of the Sacraments to be more lawful then ours because they haue fiue more then we But I answer because they haue fiue more then the
worde of God alloweth or the primitiue church acknowledgeth in the administration of the other they haue either altogether peruerted the institution as in the Lordes supper or shamefully corrupted it with superstition as in baptisme they are not the church of Christ but the church of Antichrist When we alledge the persecution of the Romish Antichrist to be the cause that our church hath not florished in outward peace to be a marke also of the truth of our congregation what maisters sayth D. Sanders Antichrists persecution shall dure but three yeres an halfe and is the Pope Antichrist who hath dured these 900. yeres But good M. Doctor determiner how proue you that Antichrists persecution shall dure but three an halfe of such yeares as the Pope hath dured 900. you quote Dan. 7. Apoc. 13. you might by as good reason say it shal dure but three dayes an halfe Apoc. 11. 9. will you take vpon you so precisely to determine of the mysticall nuÌ„ber which is somtime called 3. yeares an halfe somtime 42. moneths somtime 1260. daies somtime 3. daies an halfe somtime a time times halfe a time al which make halfe a Prophetical weeke signifie a time determined of God but not plainly reuealed to many SecoÌ„dly you aske how it could be the true church against w c Antichrist so loÌ„g preuailed that no man could tel whether any such were in y e earth wheÌ„ hel gates shal not preuaile against y e true church I answere if you can not put a difference betwene impugning preuailing you wil haue much to do to defend your Romish church to be the true church against the Turkes theÌ„ selues who haue possessed a great part of â—â—â—â— grouÌ„d w c you say perteined once to your church But herin appeareth the mark of the true church against w c the gates of hell haue not preuailed that although SataÌ„ was let loose the whore of Babylon dronken with the blood of her meÌ„bers her two witnesses slaine she her selfe driuen into the wildernes her seede persecuted wheresoeuer they were dispersed yet she is restored in the sight of the world her witnesses raised froÌ„ death to life the deuill is vanquished y e purple whore of Babylon is fallen Antechrist shall at length be throwne into the lake with the deuil and his Angels This is the Lordes worke it is maruelous in our eyes If either persecution or not failing in persecutioÌ„ be a marke of the church it is more in the Papists theÌ„ in the ProtestaÌ„ts for persecutioÌ„ he will proue that they be persecuted by vs as the mother by y e child which departeth from her obedience as Agar Ismael froÌ„ Sara But I answer we are departed froÌ„ Agar vnder whom we were in bondage to Sara by whom we are made children of the heaueÌ„ly Ierusalem euen as Agar departed froÌ„ Sara so did the synagoge of Rome froÌ„ the Catholike church of Christ. For not failing in persecutioÌ„ experieÌ„ce teacheth in all countries w c haue receaued the Gospell how small punishmeÌ„ty greatest nuÌ„ber of Papists wil abide for their Popish profession whereas so many thousands Goâ—s Saincts being most cruelly murdred by y e popish church the church of Christ is not diminished but encreased thereby euen as Cyprian saith the blood of the martyrs is the seede of church If antiquitie be a marke it is proued to be on the Papists side by this reason The church is all one the later part of the church for 900. yeares last past is on the Papistes side therefore the former parte also But this reason standing vpon a shamefull begging of that which is questioned is soone turned vpon your owneÌ„ necke The church is in all but one but the beginning of the church maketh not for you therefore that which you say is the later part of the church being contrary to that former is no part of the church so that by this reason you shal neither haue antiquitie or any parte of the church But if you appeale to particular examples sayth M. Sander I say the Christians in the primitiue church did communicate vnder one kinde at Emaus and at Ierusalem And I say M. Sander if he would burst him self with study shall neuer proue it He quoteth Aug. de consen Euang lib. 3. cap. 25. whose opinion was that Christ gaue the sacrameÌ„t at Emaus but of communion in one kind he neuer once dreamed He sayth the Christians did set vp images in the honor of Christ quoting Eus. lib. 7. cap. 14. whereas Eusebius speaketh of heathen men that of heathenish custome did set vp images and not of Christians Dionysius although he be auncient yet he wrote not in the tyme of Eusebius Hieronymus or Gennadius so was knowne for no writer in y e Church for 500. yeares after Christ Wherefore I wil not stand about his errors and ceremonyes which yet for the moste parte are as vnlike the popish ceremonyes as they are to ours Although wee haue no certaintie of the writinges of Ignatius which are extant yet is there nothing in them that fauoreth the Papists religion Hee nameth a a sacrifice which could not be offered without the Byshop that cannot be the Masse whiche euery hed geprieste may say ad Symrn. He would haue the Emperor obey the Byshop sayth M. Sand. ad Phil. But this proueth the Epistle to bee counterfaite for there was no Christian Emperour when Ignatius liued Although in deuine matters the Christian Emperour ought to obey the Bishop or rather Gods word which y e Bishop preacheth Also he speaketh of Virgins that had consecrated them selues to God who speaketh against them which hauing the gifte of continency doe keepe virginity In the same Epistle He affirmeth both Peter and Paule to haue bene maried and will not condemne the mariage of church ministers He commendeth the lent fast ad Antioch Choose M. Sander whether your decretals lye of Thelesphorus that inuented the lent fast or that this is a counterfait Epistle of Ignatius In the Epistle ad Phil. Where he commendeth the 40. daies fast the Wednesday the Friday fast he saith farther Quicunque dominicum aut sabbathum non ieiunauerit praetâ—r vnum sabbathum pasâ—ae ipse est Christi interfector Whosoeuer shall not fast the Lordes day or sabbat beside one sabbat of Easter he is a murtherer of Christ. If this be true antiquity why doth the church of Rome omit fast on Sunday if it be counterfait why is not M. Sander ashamed to alleage it Iustinus witnesseth that water was mingled with the wine Yea but it was to alay the strength of the wine not that it was necessary for the Sacrament though afterward it grew to a superstitious obseruation He saith further the Deacons caried the consecrated mysieries to them that were absent which Caluine reputeth for an abuse If they caried the bread the wine as the Sacrament it was an abuse not to
be warranted by Gods word But seeing the Deacons office was to minister to the poore I thinke rather they caried it as the almes of the church to suche as were needy What Pius decreed we finde in no writer of credit As for the Popes law it is no good euideÌ„ce hauing a busnel of drosse counterfait dregs to one graine of good and true antiquitie In deede Eusebius restisieth that Victor Bishop of Rome did excommunicate the Bishops of Asia about the celebration of Easter but he testifieth also that Victor was sharply rebuked by diuerse other godly Bishops namely by Irenaeus of Lyons and Polycrates of Ephesus for so doing Euseb. lib. 5. cap. 25. Tertullian sayth all doctrine is false lying that agreeth not with some Apostolike church And such is the doctrine that the church of Rome holdeth which agreeth with no Apostolike church no not with the ancient Apostolike church of Rome But our doctrine agreeth with all the Apostolike churches that euer were planted in the earth and continued in the doctrine of the Apostles Tertullian a Montanist speaketh in deede of oblatioÌ„s for the deade but they were none other then suche as they offred for the birth daies that was thaÌ„kesgeuing He speaketh of praier for the deade which he receaued of Montanus the heretike The stations he speaketh of were no gaddings but standings The visitation of Ierusalem is denyed to no man that will take the paynes to go thither nether was it euer like to Popish pilgrimage which is to runne a whoring after Idolls We confesse with S. Cyprian that the breade in the Sacrament is chaunged not in shape but in nature to be the flesh of Christ vnderstanding nature for propertie and the flesh of Christ to be receaued spiritually In publike offences we woulde haue confession to be made publikely before the Elders of the church as Cyprian would them that fell in persecution but of Popish auricular confession he neuer spake one word We acknowledge the forgiuenes of sinnes by the ministers to be ratified by God not binding Gods iudgemeÌ„t to it but it to Gods iudgement We grauÌ„t that teÌ„poral punishmeÌ„t for satisfaction of the church ought to be appointed vnto publike offenders which may be released vpon their harty repeÌ„tance is no more like to Popish pardoÌ„s theÌ„ the stewes market of Rome is like the church of God The rest which he huddleth vp together I wil answer as briefly S. Iames his chaire was esteemed but as a monument of antiquity no holynes put in it Euseb. lib. 7. cap. 15. The soleÌ„ne dedicating of churches was no more like Popish hallowing of churches then Christian preaching praying is like to conâ—uration Euseb. lib. 9 â—a 10. The straight life of heremites was as like the Popish heremites that dwelt at euery good townes end where the other dwelled in the wildernes as the city the desolat wildernes are alike Ruff. li. 11. c. 4. Driuing of deuils by holy water was no ordinary ceremony but a miracle once wrought by the Bishop of Apamea who wheÌ„ the temple of Iupiter could not be burned with fire that was set vnto it after he had prayed caused water signed with the crosse to be sprinckled on the altar which being done the deuills being driuen away the temple was set on fire burned Theodor. lib. 5. c. 29. The auctority of vnwritten traditions is so defended by Basil de sp sanct 27. that he affirmeâ—h whatsoeuer is not of the holy Scriptures is sinne Mor. diff 80. Praier to Saincts as the dregges of that time I leaue to be sucked vp of the Papistes Repentance but no Popish sacrament of penance is coÌ„mended by S. Ambrose The name of the masse is not in Ambrose Ep. 33. for missaÌ„ facere signifieth to let go or let passe not to say masse y e name of sacrifice signifieth a sacrifice of thaÌ„kesgiuing The Canon of the Popish masse is not in Ambrose but the forme of celebration of the communion in his time de Sacr. li. 4. ca. 5. 6. Chrysostom reciteth the text of S. Iames onely to proue that God forgiueth sinnes at the praiers of the Elders not speaking of the ceremony of extreame vnction vsed by the Papists de Sacer. li. 3. Hyeronym ad Vilant alloweth not the superstitious vse of burning candells in the day time That he will not allow Bishops to beget children it sheweth his errors coÌ„demned by the Nicene councell by the perswasion of Paphnutius Socr. li. 1. cap. 11. Hieronyme speaketh not of a certeine number of prayers to confirme the vse of your beades but of a certeine nuÌ„ber of the verses of the holy Scripture to be learned as a talke to the Lord. ad Furtan That he which hath had two wiues coulde not be a Priest in Hieronymus time y t was a litle of that chaffe w c afterward ouerwhelmed y e good corne in the church of Rome Hierom affirmeth that he as helper vnto the writing of Damasus Bishop of the city of Rome did answere the synodicall consultation that came from the East the West What is this to any purpose of the Papistes Not only the Bishop of Rome was consulted nor he alwaies except the matter concerned the whole church when no member should be lefte vnconsulted and not made priuye Finally that Augustine sayeth that the fier by which some shalbe saued after this life is more greeuous then any paine of this life Psal. 37 he sayth the contrary de fide ad Laurent cap 68 where he denieth that text of scripture to be vnderstode of punishment after this life and saveth the whole matter of purgatory may be enquired of as a matter vncertaine The like De octo Dulcity quest 91. cont Pelag. Hypog lib. 5. he knoweth heaueÌ„ hell and vtterlye dâ—nyeth the third place to be found in the scriptures By which it appeareth that this error of purgatory was but very young in Augustines time And now you see what antiquity he can boast of for when he hath wrested wrong all that he can scarce two or thre errors haue any shadow of antiquity those not in the greatest matters wheras the whole substance of the doctrine of fayth in God iustification by Christ the true worship of God the vertue of Christes death the infirmity of man the right vse of the sacramentes the auctority of the holy scriptures a nuÌ„ber more of such principall heades of Christian learning in which we differ from them he is as silent as a stone The 17. marke is the name of Catholikes which M. Iewel confesseth to haue bene of late geuen to the Papistes which among other thinges stayed S. August in the right fayth as he confesseth Cont. epist. Manich. lib. 4. But seing the name of Catholikes was falsly geuen to you which arè nowe ryghtlye called by the name of your archeheretike the pope papistes the onely name of Catholikes which was geuen to you by
of saluation brought in by the Pope then S. Paule deliuered to the Galathians we hold the Pope theÌ„ iustly accursed But we iustifie them sayth he by the word of God not written I am sure but by your counterfeit word of traditions as you say by bookes of auncient fathers and yet not by bookes of the most auncient fathers in whome is litle or nothing at all of suche drosse and chaffe amonge a great deale of good corne But seeing we made no new religion in those and such like thinges sayth he but keepe the olde humilitie obedience and vnitie is our fault if we haue any O fautles hypocrites if the older truth had neuer bene reuealed vnto you against your olde heresies your faults had bene the lesse but nowe your darkenes being conuinced of the light your pride rebellion and schisme from Christ and his Church is and appeareth most haynous and manifest Now seeing M. Sander dare not encounter with vs in this very poynt of our contention he sayneth an Idoll of an aduersary to shew his manhood vpon before his friendes that they may prayse him for a worthy champion He imagineth that we reply that Luther and Caluine did so change popish religion as Christ and his Apostles did chauÌ„ge the Iewish religion and then he layeth on lode that Luther and Caluines authoritie is not like to Christes whereas we make no such comparison but affirme that these godly preachers were sent of God so to reueale and discouer the idolatry corruptions mayntayned in the Church as Elias Elizeus Oseas and the other Prophets were sent to restore and reforme the true worship of God corrupted and decayed amonge the Israelites reprouing and reforming all thinges according to the infallible rule of Gods worde And whereas he trifleth of the continuance of the sacrifice of Christ according to the order of Melchisedech I say it is horrible blasphemy to make any successors vnto Christ in â—â—â—â— priesthood which the holy Ghost sayth he hath 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 such as passeth not from him by succession to others because he liueth for euer And whereas he quoteth Irenaeus lib. 4. cap. 32. and Augustin in Psal. 33. de ciui Dei lib. 17. cap. 20. cont adu leg lib. 1. cap. 18. reade the places who will and he shall finde that these fathers speake not at all of any propiciatory sacrifice of Christes very body and bloode in the sacrament but of the sacrifice of thankes giuing which the Church throughout all the world doth offer to God in the celebration of the holy mysteries for their redemption by the death of Christ. But it is sufficient for blinde and obstinate Papists to see the bookes margent paynted with quotations of doctors by them which peraduenture neuer turned the bookes them selues but borowed their quotations of other men But M. Sander sayth whereas we pretend that Luther and Caluine doe all things according to Gods worde they are the more to be abhorred not only because the one is contrary to the other but also because they pretende to haue their doings figured and prophecyed in the Gospel whereas there is but one Christ which hath bene borne dyed but once therefore these men haue no power to abrogate the Masse or to take away the key of auncient religion To their dissention I aunswer it is not in many poyntes but in one that not of the greatest weight as for their pretence of theyr doinges to be figured or prophetied in the Gospell it is a dreame of M. Sanders drousie head for they make none such but they shew the abuses of the Romish church by the doctrine of Gods word by the same they shew the way to reforme them and this to the glory of Christ who dyed but once they abrogate the Masse by which it should follow if it were of any force that he should dye often for without death sheding of bloud there is no sacrifice for remission of sinnes Heb. 9. 22. 26. If we deny the Masse to be that they say it is he aunswereth that as he doeth not reade that the Iewish priestes did erre concerning the substance of their publike sacrifice So is it lesse possible that the vniuersall church of Christ should erre in that publike act wherin Christ is sacrificed Here is a wise argument hauing neither head nor foote nor any ioynt to hange togeather For whatsoeuer M. Sander readeth we reade that Vrias the high Priest made an heathenish altar in the Temple at the commaundement of the king Achas offered sacrifice theron 2. Reg. 16. VVe reade also in Iosephus that Caiaphas diuers other of y e high Priestes were Saduces which could not but erre in the substaÌ„ce of their publike sacrifice when they beleued not the resurrection Seeing the end of theyr sacrifices was to signifie y e eternall redâ—ption by Christ. Now to the second parte of the argument I say the vniuersall church dyd not erre though the schismaticall synagogue of Rome departed froÌ„ Christs institutioÌ„ But M. SaÌ„der chafeth vs away with this double negatiue no no maisters Antechrists you may be christ you caÌ„not be Gods curse light on him that would haue any other Christ theÌ„ Iesus the sonne of God Mary which sitteth at the right hand of his father in heaueÌ„ But it is your Antechrist of Rome that vsurpeth not only the office but also receiueth the name of Christ God of his AntechristiaÌ„ Canonists w c I know you will not deny though your face be of brasse because â—â—â—â— boks may be shewed to any maÌ„y list to se theÌ„ After his large excursion he returneth to D. Parker whome he would aduise to reuolt to the popish church but he God be thanked hauing ended his dayes in the catholike church of Christ on earth is now receued into the fellowship of the tryumphant church in heauen I passe ouer how maliciously he â—ayleth against the blessed martyr Tho. Cranmer for defence of whose learning and godlines I refer the reader to his story faithfully set forth by M. Fox All other Archbishops of Canterbury he saith from Augustine sent thither by Gregory were of their popish profession Of a great number it is as he sayth but not of all For the opinion of the carnall presence of Christ in the sacrament was not receiued in the Church of England for two or three huÌ„dereth yeeres after Augustines arriual as that Homely which that reuerend father Matthew late Archbishop of Canterbury caused to be translated and imprinted doth manifestly declare And whereas hee sâ—orneth at the persecuted congregation of Wickleue Husse and the poore men of Lyons boasting of the externall pompe and visar of glory that was in the Romish Church I haue sufficiently aunsweared before that bothe the apostacy of the church of Antichrist the persecution of the church of Christ was so described proficied before that neither the one nor the other should trouble any mans conscience w
that he deserued so to be and therefore had neede especially to bee confirmed by our Sauiour Christ more then the rest as his offence was more shamefull then of any of the other Therefore the seconde reason that hee bringeth of his restitution if he had lost it is superfluous Ioh. 20 For he was none otherwise restored then the rest were but at this time especially confirmed as his speciall case required His last reason is that admit Peter had not beene restored before this time yet nowe he was restored to a greater authority then any other Apostle had receued at any time and whereas we reply that all the Apostles were equall by testimonie of Cyprian and Hieromes he aunsweareth by distinction forsooth that they were equall in Apostleship and yet Peter was chiefe of tâ—e Apostles and an ordinary chiefe shepheard or high â—â—yshop wherein they were all inferiours to him and â—â—ee was their Primate and their heade and this distinction he promiseth to proue exactly heereafter In the meane time it is a monstrous Paradox that all the Apostles should be equall with Peter in Apostleshipp and yet Peter be the chiefe of the Apostles He that can proue inequalitie to be where he graunteth equallitie to be and in the same respecte is a straunge Logition Fynally where as some men graunting Peter to bee the rock deny the honor to his successors he will proue that the Byshop of Rome and none other hath all that authoritie which Peter sometime had and consequently that the Protestants come neerer to the nature condition of Antichrist then any pope of Rome euer did or can doe The seconde Chapter THat there is a certaine primacie of spirituall gouernment in the church of Christ though not properly a Lordlynesse or heathenish dominion And in what sort this Eâ—clesiasticall primacie differeth from the Lordly gouernmeÌ„t ofseculer princes and how it is practised by the Bishop of Rome Also the Apostles strife concerning superioritie is declared That there â—as one greater amonge the Apostles to be a ruler and as a minister doe not repugne The preheminence of Priestes aboue Kings A King can not be supreame gouernour in all Ecclesiasticall causes because by right and law he can not practise all Ecclesiasticall causes The high Priest is preferred before the King by Gods law The euill life of a Bishop taketh not away his authoritie The differences betwene the Bishop of Rome and temporall Princes That Moyses was a Priest THe Ecclesiasticall gouernment of the Church is a ministery or seruice by the authoritie of Christ and his Apostle Peter therefore neither properly nor vnproperly a Godlines or Hethenish dominion but altogether as vnlike to it as our Sauiour Christ the paterne of all true ministers was vnlike to an earthly Lorde or an Heathen Prince But whereas M. Sander in the first sentence of this chapter sayth That no man properly can tâ—e Lord among the Christians where all are seruaunts indifferently vnder the obedience of one true Lord and Maister Iesus Christ. he sheweth him selfe not only to be a Papist â—ut also an Anabaptist For the coÌ„mon seruice that we oâ—â—e vnto Christ hindereth not but that a Christian man â—ay be Lord King ouer his fellow seruaunts and thren in Christ as properly as euer he might be before the incarnation of Christ who saith himselfe that his kingdome is not of this worlde who himselfe was obedient and taught obedience both to God and Caesar to eche in things that belonged to them that dominion which he forbiddeth vnto his Apostles like to the princes of the nations Luc. 22. Matth. 20. and which S. Peter forbiddeth the elders of the church 1. Pet. 5. is not prohibited to all Christians but to the ministers of the Church onely in respect of their ministery And yet that there ought to be a gouernment of the church some kind of primacy also it is cleerer by the scriptures then that it neede any proofe especially such slender proues as M. San. bringeth namely where he citeth this text Feed my sheepe to signifie that Peter should giue euery man his dewe portion iust measure of victuals in coÌ„uenient time which thing neither Peter did nether was he able to doe And much lesse any man in succession to him which is not equal in gifts with him And therefore the example of a stuarde who may prouide for a competent number of one family is fondly applyed to make one Stewarde ouer al the worlde beside him that is almightie For although the Apostles were not lymited to any certaine congregation but were generall Embassadors into all partes of the worlde yet were they not appoynted to giue to euery man his dewe portion but to appoynt Pastors in euery Church and towne for that purpose Tit. 1. Actes 14. verse 23 they them selues to proceed in matters pertayning to their generall Commission And therefore although M. Sander in applying these woordes of Ieronime Cont. Luciferanos which hee calleth Exortem quandam eminentem potestatem A certaine peerelesse and highe power And of Cyprian lib. 1. Ep. 3. Of one priest in the Church for that time c. True Euery seuerall Pastor or as he tearmeth them parrishe priest dealeth more honestly then other Papists that drawe the same testimonyes as proper to the Popes soueraigne auctority yet in that he argueth that the like should be in the whole church militant which is in euery parish it is out of all compasse of reason For that which is possible in the one is altogeather impossible in the other And the argument is no better then if we should say there is one steward in euery Colledge or greate house therefore there is is one steward ouer all the world And wheras he would proue his matter good by that S. Mat. cap. 10. rehearsing the names of the Apostles calleth Peter the first it is to childish friuolous For in euery nomber one or other must be the first it seemeth that Peter was first called to the office of Apostleship therefore his primacy was of order not of auctority Nether is he alwaies first named for Gal. 3. 9. where the question is of the dignity of the Apostles Iames is named before Cephas or Peter as he was indeede elected to be the principall minister at Hierusalem by consent of most auncient writers neither doeth it folow that because the high Priest of the old law was called Princeps populi A prince of the people therefore Peter was made prince of all Christian men For neither was the high Priest alone called the prince of the people as M. S. seemeth to say neither had Peter by those wordes feede my shope any auctority committed vnto him more then to the rest of the Apostles As for the name of Lord or tearme of dominioÌ„ sometime geueÌ„ by ecclesiasticall writers to the Bishop or his gouernment we striue not about it so there be no such dominion by him excercised
me dicitis Statim loci non immemor sui Primatum egit Primatum confessionis vtique non honoris primatum fidei non ordinis This Peter I say when he hearde but what doe you say that I am immediatly not forgetting his place executed his primacie Verely the primacie of confession not of honor the primacie of faith not of degree By these places of Ambrose it appeareth what gouernment and primacie was graunted to Peter and how he exercised the same The fift differeÌ„ce is that the other Euangelists say absolutely let him be a minister a seruauâ—â—t in S. Luke it is said with a great moderation let him be made as the younger and as he that ministreth If this be a good argument to proue that the ministery is more truly a greatnesse then a ministerie the Arrians may deny by the like that Christ is more truely a man then the sonne of God because Sainct Iohn sayeth we sawe his glorie as the glorie of the onely begotten sonne of God O beastly absurdity and yet he sayeth if any man say that there was not one certeyne man greater amonge the Apostles who might be as the younger it is playne contradiction to Christ and he is Antechrist But where on Gods name sayeth Christ that there is one certeyne man greater among the Apostles The last the least difference is that the greater man is euidently named a litle after when Christ saâ—th to S. Peter Simon Simon beholde Satan hath desired to sift you as it were wheate but I haue prayed for thee that thy faith shall not faile And thou being once conuerted confirme thy brethren Maister Sander asketh what other thing it is for Peter to confirme his brethren but to practise and exercise his greatnesse ouer them for euerie one that confirmeth is greater then they which are confirmed Who euer did reade such impudent assertions Peters faith was confirmed by Marie Magdalen therefore she was greater then Peter Paule was confirmed by Ananias therefore he was greater then Paule Aquila Priscilla confirmed Apollo therfore they were greater then he To conclude if 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in S. Luk. 22. do necessarily proue that there was one certeine man among them greatest theÌ„ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the 9. of Luk. 48. doth proue that there was one least among them He that is least among you al saith our Sauiour Christ euen he shalbe the greatest And least M. Sander should renue his differeÌ„ce of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 it may please him to vnderstand that the contention was among the Apostles 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which should be the greater or greatest of them Which question our Sauiour Christ doth not decide if M. Sanders difference of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in this place may stande Wherefore hitherto Peter hath found no supremacie and muche lesse the Pope by prerogatiue of his chaire who can not be sayd to sit in Peters chaire except he taught Peters doctrine which if he did teach as he doth y e contrarie yet Peters auctority could no more be deriued to him then the auctority of Moses to euery one of y e Scribes Pharizees w c did sit in Moses chaire He citeth Ambrose to proue that there is a prelacie or preferrement in the church because he forbiddeth contention thereabout as though there could not be a prelacy or preferremeÌ„t of euery Bishop ouer his church but there must be one Bishop ouer all the church The like he alleageth out of Bede which speaketh expressely of al the teachers of the church not of one Pope ouer all The conclusion of his disputation is that the ecclesiastical primacy doth in al points resemble as much as it possible may the primacy of Christ therefore he that denyeth the primacie among the Apostles to be a true primacy in his kinde is blasphemous against Christ him selfe Nay rather he that communicateth with any man that which is peculiar to our Sauiour Christ that he only shoulde be as S. Paule speaketh of him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 himselfe the primate in al things Col. 1. 18. which is y e head of his body which is the church is fouÌ„d a manifest blasphemer of our Sauiour Christ. But that they w c excel among y e Apostles their successors the Bishops may be humble and yet great after the example of our Sauiour Christ is no question at all But that any hath suche greatnes in auctoritie as our Sauiour Christ hath cuer his whole Churche is the thinge we denye If Gregorie affirme that Peter by Gods commission had the primacie of the holy church and was growne in power aboue the rest it is no maruel seeing he was so nere to the open manifestation of Antechrist which succeeded him the next saue one whose tyranny beganne to encrease longe before Gregories time yet was he in his pretended primacie more modest then any that followed him to this day Vtterly refusing and condemning as prophane proude blasphemous against Christ the title of vniuersall Bishoppe which Ihon of Constantinople did vsurpe and other Bishoppes would haue geuen to him And whereas M. Sander frameth an obiection of our part that no man can be both a minister a gouernour therfore no ecclesiasticall minister can be a gouernour he playeth with his owne shadow For we deny not but a minister of the church which is a seruaunt is also a gouernour But we affirme that his gouernmeÌ„t is spiritual not worldly vnlike to the earthly gouernment of this worlde euen as the kingdome of Christ is not of this worlde But it followeth not because that euery Bishop shepherd is a gouernour therefore there must be one Bishop and shepherd gouernour of them all other then our Sauiour Christ the arch or head shepherd Bishop of our soules 1. Pet. 5. 4. 1. Pet. 2. 25 M. Sander coÌ„mendeth y e saying of Leo B. of Rome to Anastasius B. of Thessalonica Qui se c. He that knoweth him seife to be set ouer some men let him not disdaine to haue some man preferred before him But he proceedeth sed obedientiam quam exigit etiam ipse dependat But such obedience as he requireth of other let him yeeld himselfe By this saying it appeareth that although Leo take much vpoÌ„ him as to heare the coÌ„trouersies y e can not be determined by the Metropolitans yet he acknowledgeth that in equitie he was bâ—â—â—â—d to yeelde that obedience to others which he required of others if he him selfe were in fault But M. Sander maketh an other obiection for vs on this maner The Princes of the Gentiles doe also serue their subiectes in conseruing peace keeping out their enemies c. but the clergie must be altogether vnlike to temporal gouernours therfore there must be no primacie or gouernment among them although it be ioyned with seruice Once againe I say we make no such obiection but we answere the Anabaptists that
faith of that disciple on which the church of Christ should be so established and founded that it should not fall Here is an other principall Doctor ioyning with Chrysostom against M. Sander who affirmeth that the rocke is nothing els but Peters faith After these he nameth Theophylact and Euthymius two late writers but he citeth nothing out of them presently But after shewing the force of Gods promise to be effectual to work al meanes necessarie for the performaunce of it he citeth out of Euthymius in Luc 6. that it was like that in Ioh. 1. Christ promised that Simon should be called Peter in Luk. 6 called him Peter All this needed not we doubt not but Simon was called Peter Yea but Cyrillus sayth in Ioan. lib. 12. cap. 64. that he being Prince and heade first cried out saying thou art Christ the sonne c. Therfore he was head before his confession by promise and name I will not here say how contrary M. Sander is to him selfe which in the cap. 3. sayd that his supremacie was graunted to him as a rewarde of his confession But I will aunswere Cyrillus by him selfe in Ioan. lib. 4. cap. 28 that Peter was Ordine maior superior in order to auoyde confusion not in degee dignitie or auctoritie And whereas M. Sander vrgeth so vehemently that the name of Peter was not geuen for his confession but was singular to him by promise so that it belonged literally to no Prophet Apostle nor disciple but only to him his successors it is a most fond friuolus matter for the name of Bonarges was specially geuen to the sonnes of Zebedee in respect of their excellent giftes and at the same time that the name of Peter was geuen to Simon which secing it perteineth not to their successors which haue not the same giftes no more doth the name dignity of Peter perteine to any that sit in his chaire if euer he had any fixed chaire among the Gentiles which by Gods ordinaunce was appoynted to be the principall Apostle of the Iewes Moreouer where he laboreth tooth nailc to proue that these wordes vpon this rocke I will build my church are to be referred to Peter as I sayd before I will graunt euen as muche But that Peter by these wordes was made a singular rocke more then all the Apostles vpon which the whole church is builded I vtterly deny neither shall he be euer able to proue it For it is an impudent lye that onely Peter at this time had this high reuelation to acknowledge Christ to be the sonne of God For he aunswered in the name of all the rest who beleued the same which he in their name confessed Did not Andrewe before Peter acknowledge him to be the Messias Did not Nathaniel which was none of the Apostles acknowledge him to be the sonne of God and the King of Israel Ioan. 1. 49. But he reasoneth substantially when he saith thou only art the rocke because thou alone hadst this name c. promised thou alone hadst it geuen thou alone didst confesse me to thee alone I say thou art Peter As though a man may not haue a name whose signification is common to many Salomon alone was promised to be called and was called Iedidiah that is the beloued of God shall we therefore reason that Salomon onely was beloued of God as for that he onely confessed I haue shewed before that it is false for Christ saying thou art Peter meaneth not to say thou onely art a rocke but thou well aunswerest thy name which signifieth a rocke or stone and I wil in deede vse thee as a rocke or stone to builde my church vpon yet not meaning the person but the office and doctrine of his Apostleship But nowe hath M. Sander no lesse then 21. reasons to proue that Peter is the rocke here spoken of w c althogh they may for the most parte be easily auoided yet I will graunt that Peter is one of the twelue stones whereupon the church is builded but not the only stone Therfore his first foure arguments I deny 1. Simon is alone promised to be called Peter 2. he alone is called Peter 3. Christ speaketh to him alone saying And I say to thee c. 4. Christ sayth of him alone thou art Peter therefore Simon alone is the rocke of the church let him proue the cōsequence if he can The next 5. which proue that these wordes are to be referred to Peter although that they be not verie strong yet I graunt the wordes may be aptly referred to Peter the reasons are 1. vpon the pronoune The 2 the worde rocke of which Peter is named 3. the conference of thē together 4. the word I will build 5. the word my church The 10 Argument I denye that Christ. by saying to Peter Feede my Lambes feede my sheepe made him the heade stone of Gods militant Church nexte vnto Christe The eleuenth that Peter is shewed to be the Rocke spoken of by geuing of the Keyes I confesse ebut seeing the keyes are giuen to all the Apostles this proueth Peter to be none otherwise a Rocke then euery one of them That Iohn receued the Keyes I shewed euen now out of Chysostome The twelfth that the propertie of a Rock in constant withstanding of tempests agreeth with Peter I graunt and so it doth to the rest of the Apostles for whome Christ prayed as he did for Peter who also strengthened and confirmed their brethren as Peter did The 13. I confesse that hell gates shall not preuayle against the Church nor against any member thereof which is a small reason to make Peter supreame heade thereof The 14. which is the authorities of those doctors that teach Peter to be the rocke whom he nameth when he citeth their sayings or quoteth their places I will seuerally consider The 15. their reason also when I see them to deriue Peters authoritie to his successors I will waighe likewise The 16. the practise of 1500. yeares I deny The 17. I deny that all generall councells or any generall councell for 600. yeares after Christ acknowledged Peter to be the rocke in that sence the Papistes do now The 18. if the confession of Peter be the rocke yet it is none inconuenience that the church shoulde be builded theron which began to be builded on the same confession offered by Iohn Baptist. The 19. though you confound the diuerse senses geuen by the fathers in your fourth sense yet that proueth not your sense to be true The 20. seeing the Apostles are certeyne foundatiōs and rockes vpon which the church is builded I confesse that Peter must needes be one but that he was the most principall rocke in respect of his name Peter which is a stone I say it followeth no more then that Salomon was best of al men beloued of God because of that name Iedidiah which signifieth beloued of God The 21. that all the Protestantes doe not agree in the interpretation of
these wordes vpon this rocke I will builde my church it proueth not your exposition to be true for neither do all the old Doctors nor yet the new Papistes agree in one the same interpretation of this text And oftentimes it may inuincibly be proued that an heresie hath no grounde out of suche a text of Scripture although the true and naturall sense thereof can not be found at all The fift Chapter IT is proued out of the auncient fathers that S. Peter is this rocke whereupon the church was promised to be builded otherwise then M. Iewell affirmeth THat Peter was a rocke or stone vpon which the church was builded is graunted of vs but that he alone was a rock for the whole church to be builded vpoÌ„ we deny and M. Iewell rightly affirmeth that the olde Catholike fathers haue written and pronounced not any mortall man as Peter was but Christ him selfe the sonne of God to be this rocke whereon y t whole church is builded But M. Sander will proue if he can out of the old writers that not onely Christ is the chiefe rocke but Peter also is an other rocke so that the church by his doctrine is builded vpon two rockes and this he will shew 1. by their words 2. their reasons 3. by the same places which M. Iewell alleageth for the coÌ„trary opinioÌ„ The decretal epistles of Anacletus Pius Fabianus c. which in his owne conscience he knoweth to be forged he omitteth and beginneth with Tertullian De praescrip aduers. haeres Latuit aliquid Petrum aedisicaÌ„dae ecclesiae Petram dictum Was any thing hid from Peter which was called a rocke of the church which was to be builded This is graunted that he was a rocke or stone whereon the churche is builded and the same Tertullian in his booke de pudicitia sayth of this whole text that this was conferred to Peter Personally and perteineth to none other but such as he was namely an Apostle or Prophet Secundum enim Petri personam spiritualibus potestas ista conueniet aut Apostolo aut Prophetae For according to the person of Peter this power shall belong to spiritual men either to an Apostle or to a Prophet Where is then the succession of the B. of Bome But Hippolytus saith Princeps Petrus fideipetra Peter is chiefe a rocke of faith He meaneth a strong preacher of faith not a rocke whereon faith is builded Origenes in Exod. Ho. 5. calleth S. Peter Magnum illud c. That great foundation and most sound rocke whereupon Christ hath builded his church But let Origenes expound him selfe in Math. cap. 16. Si autem super vnum illum Petrum arbitraris vniuersam ecclesiam aedisicari à deo quid dicis de Iacobo Ioanne filus tonitrui velde singulis Apostolis Verè ergo ad Petrum quidem dictum est Tues Petrus super hanepetram edifiâ—abo ecclesiam meam pertae inferorum non praeualebâ—nt ei tamen omnibus Apostolis omnibus quibus q perfectis fidelibus dictum videtur quoniam omnes sunt Petrus petrae in omnibus aedificata est ecclesia Christi aduersus nullum ecrum qui tales sunt portae preualent inferorum But if thou thinke the whole church is builded by God vpon that one man Peter what sayst thou of Iames and Iohn the sonnes of thunder or of euerie one of the Apostles Therefore it was in deede truly sayd vnto Peter Thou art Peter vpon this rocke I will builde my church and the gates of hell shall not preuaile agaynst it yet it seemeth that it was spoken also to all the Apostles and to all the perfect faithfull because they are all Peter and stones and on them all the church of Christ is builded and agaynst none of them which are suche the gates of hell shall preuayle By this you see howe Origen is none of his howe so euer he abuse his name Next he citeth Cyprian lib. 1. Ep. 3. lib. 4. Ep. 9 which sayeth that the church was builded vpon Peter Which we confesse as vpon one of the foundation stones but the same Cyprian De simplicitate praelatorum sayth Hoc erant vtique caeters Apostoli quod fuit Petrus pari consortio praediti honoris potestatis sed exordium ab vnitate proficiscinur vt ecclesia vna monstretur The rest of the Apostles were euen the same thing that Peter was endued with equall fellowship both of honor and auctoritie but the beginning procedeth from one that the church might be shewed to be one This speaketh Cyprian vpon the very text now in discussing Consequently he citeth Hilarie lib 6. de trinit Petrus c. Peter lieth vnder the building of the church and in ca. Math. 16. O in nuncupatione c. O happy foundation of the church in hauing the new name pronounced and ô rocke worthie of the building of that church which should dissolue the lawes of hell But the same Hilarie sayeth of Christ de trinit lib. 2. Vna haec est foelix fidei petra Petri ore confessa tu es filius Dei viui This is that onely happie rocke of fayth confessed by the mouth of Peter thou art the sonne of the liuing God And agayne lib. 6. Super hanc igitur confessionis petram ecclesiae aedificatio est Vpon this rocke of confession is the building of the church And againe Haec fides ecelesiae fundamentum est per hanc fidem infirmae aduersus eam sunt portae inferorum Haec fides regni caelestis habet claues c. This fayth is the foundation of the churche by this fayth the gates of hell are of no force agaynst it This fayth hath the keyes of the kingdome of heauen c. Therefore not the person of Peter is the rocke for all the church to be built vpon S. Ambrose hath the next place whome he citeth Scr. 66. Si ergo c. If Peter then be a rocke vpon which the church is builded he doth well to heale first the feete that euen as he doth conteyne the foundation of faith in the church so in the man he may confirme the foundation of his members Of the auctoritie of this Sermon I will not dispute it shall sufâ—ice that Ambrose in Ps. 38. sayth Quod Petro dicitur Apostâ—lis diâ—itur non pâ—testatem vsurpamus sed seruiâ—â—s â—mperio That which is sayd to Peter is said to the Apostles we vsurpe not power but we serue vnder commaundâ—ment By this saying of Ambrose Peter is so a rocke and foundation as the other Apostles are not a rocke to beare all the building him selfe S. Basil is alleaged in Concâ—de paenit Petrus petra est c. Peter is a rocke through Christ the rocke For Iesus geueth his owne dignities he is a rocke and maketh a rocke This proueth not Peter to be the onely rocke of the militant church as M. Sander would make him After him he citeth Hierom in 16. Math.
AEdificabo ecclesiam mean super te I wil build my church vpon thee Behold sayth M. Sander the church promised to be built vpon a mortall man If he say true Christ sayth in vaine that flesh and blood made him not Peter But the same Hieronyme interpreteth that power there geuen to Peter to perteyne to euerie Bishop and Priest as much as to Peter And contra Ioninian lib. 1. he writeth At dicis super Petrum fundatur ecclesia licet id ipsum in alio loco super omnes Apostolâ—s fiat cuncti â—laues regni caelâ—rum accipiant ex aequo super eos ecclesiae fortitudo sâ—lidetur tamen propterea inter duâ—decim vnus eligitur vt capite coÌ„stituto seisinatis tollatur occasio But thou sayest the church is founded vpon Peter although in an other place the same is done vpon al â—â—â—â— Apostles they al receaued the keyes of the kingdom of heauen the strength of the church is grounded equally vpon theÌ„ yet for this cause one is chosen among the twelue that the heade being appoynted occasion of diuision might be taken away You see now that Peter is no more a rock or fundation then the rest neither hath any more auctoritie of the keyes then the rest alâ—hough by his iudgement he was chosen to be the chiefe or first in order to auoyde strife not in dignitie or auctority Chrysostom is cited ex Var. in Math. Hom 27. Princeps c. Peter Prince of the Apostles vpon whome Christ sounded the church a verie immoueable rocke and a strong confession M. Sander woulde haue vs note that Peter is called confession that when he sayth the church is builded vpon faith confession we might vnderstand no mans saith and confession but Peters As though all the Apostles had not the same faith made not the same coÌ„fession But notwithstaÌ„ding that Chrysostom doth ofteÌ„ acknowledge Peter to be the Prince of the Apostles yet he willeth vs to coÌ„sider that his principallity was not of auctority but of order Iam illâ—d considera quà m Petrus agit omma excommuni disâ—ipulorum sententiâ— nihil auctoritate sua nihil cum imperio Now also coÌ„sider this how euen Peter doth all things by the coÌ„mon decree of the disciples nothing by his owne auctority nothing by commaundement Ex. Act. Ho. 3. Also in 2. ad Gal. he doth not only asfirme that Paule was equall in honor with Peter but also that all the rest were of equall dignitie Iamque se caeteris honore parem ostendit nec se reliquis illis sed ipsi summo comparat declarans quod herum vnusquis q parem sortitus sit dignitateÌ„ And now Paule sheweth him selfe equall in honor with the rest neither doth he coÌ„pare him selfe with the rest but euen with the highest himselfe declaring that euery one of theÌ„ hath obteined equal dignity Now followeth Epiphanius in Anchor Ipse dominus c. The Lord himselfe did constitute him chiefe of the Apostles a sure rocke vpon which the church of God is built and the gates of hell shall not preuayle agaâ—nst it now the gates of hell are heresies and auctors of heresies for by all meanes faith in him was established which receaued the keye of heauen That Peter was chiefe of y e Apostles in order we striue not that he was a sure rocke we graunt but that he alone was the rocke of the church we deny The same Epiphanius acknowledgeth the Bishop of Rome to be fellow minister with euery Bishop and no better and therefore setting forth the epistle of Marcellus to Iulius Bishop of Rome he giueth this superscriptioÌ„ Beatissimo coÌ„ministro Iulio Marcellus in Domino gaudium To his most blessed fellow minister Iulius Marcellus wisheth ioy in the Lord. The place of Cyrillus which followeth I haue sette downe and aunswered iu the chapter before After him Theodoretus alleageth Psellus In Petro c. In Peter the prince of the Apostles our Lord in the Gospells hath promised that he will build his Church Damascâ—n and Euthymius later writers are alledged to the like effect all which proue nothing but that Peter is a rocke which we confesse as euery one of the Apostles is TheÌ„ followeth Augustine in his retractations which leaueth it to the choyce of the reader whether he will vnderstand Peter figuring the person of the Church to be the rocke spoken of by Christ or Christ whoÌ„ he coÌ„fessed But that Peter as Bishop of Rome should be the rocke he sayth nothing Againe leauing it to the readers choyse he sheweth he had no such perswasion of the rocke of the Church as M. Sander teacheth After him Prosper Aquitanicus Leo with Gregory two Bishops of Rome say nothing but that Peter was a rocke which we graunt without controuersie Last of all the councell of Chalcedon is cited Act. 3. Petrus Apostolus est petra crepido Ecclesiae Peter the Apostle is a rocke and a shoare of the Churche which M. Sander translateth the toppe of the Church In deede the legats of the Bishop of Rome vttered such words which may be well vnderstoode as all the rest of the fathers that Peter was one of the twelue foundations of the Churche But that the councell acknowledged not the Bishop of Rome to haue such authoritie as is pretended appeareth by the 16. action of the Chalcedon councell where notwithstanding the B. of Romes Legats reclaymed Leo him selfe refused to consent yet by the whole councell it was determined that the Archbishop of Constantinople should haue equall authoritie with the Archbishop of Rome in the East onely the title of prioritie or senioritie reserued to the Bishop of Rome To conclude M Iewell sayd truly for all M. Sanders vaine childishinsulting impudent rayling y t no mor tall maÌ„ but Christ only is the rocke foundation of the Church albeit that Peter all the Apostles in respect of their office doctrine were fouÌ„dation stones wheron the Church was builded Iesus Christ being the corner stone and onely one generall foundation The sixt chapter THe diuerse reasoÌ„s which the fathers bring to declare why S. Peter was this rocke do euidently shew that he was most literally this rocke whereupon Christ would build his Church How Peter beareth the person of the Church THat he was a stone or rocke wheron the Church is builded hath bene often graunted but that he onely was such a stone is stil denyed First Basil aduersus Euno lib. 2. is cited with his reason Petrus c. Peter receyued the building of the Church vpon him selfe for the excellencye of his faith I aunswer so did the other Apostles for the excellencye of their fayth for continuance whereof Christ prayed as well as for Peters faith Iohn 17. The 2. Hilarie de trinit lib. 6. sayth Supereminentem c. Peter by confession of his blessed faith deserued an exceding glory And so did the rest of the Apostles by their confession of their
person so no mortall man For those woordes nothing but Peters faith do not exclude Christ because faith cannot be without necessary relation vnto Christ but they exclude the person of Peter as a mortall man because flesh blood reuealed not this confession vnto him but the Heauenly father The 4. authorite is Chrysostome Vpon this Rocke that is vpon this faith and this confession I will builde my church M. San. saith he that beleeued confessed was Peter and not Christ ergo the rock is Peter not Christ. Although this argument haue no consequence in the world yet to admitte that it doth followe I will reply thus but he that beleeued and confessed was not Peter onely therefore Peter onely was not this rock The 5. is Aug. de verbis dom Christe was the rocke vpon which foundation Peter him selfe was also builte M. San. asketh if one Rock may not be built vpon anonother as Peter vpon Christ yes verily but Peter none otherwise then the reste of the Apostles who were all foundation stones laid vpon the great corner stone or onely foundation Rock Iesus Christ. S. Augustine againe addeth in Christes person I wil not builde my selfe vpon thee but I wil build thee vpon me M San. following the allegory of building coÌ„fesseth that Christ is the first greatest stone vpon which by all proportion the seconde stone that should be laide must be greatest that can be gotten next the first If this be so it is meruaile the Angel which shewed vnto Iohn the building of the heauenly Ierusalem shewed him not this second stone by it selfe but the xij stones lying equally one by an other vppon the maine foundation Apo. 21. whereby we see that M. Sand. vttereth nothing but the visions of his owne head The 6. is Origines in 4. sentence in 16. Mat. He is â—â—â—â— rock whosoeuer is the disciple of Christ. M. S. reciteththis seÌ„se as not literal seing Peter is a disciple the first he wil proue Peter next to christ to be y e chief rock In deed according to this sense it must needes be that Peter is one principall rock among so many thousand rocks but because he is named first in the Catalogue of the Apostles it is a sory reason to make him so to excel that he is one rock that beareth al the rest But M. Iewel is frantike in M. San opinion that denying any mortall man to be this rock nowe proueth euery mortall man that is Christs disciple to be this Rock Nay rather M. Sand. is brainsick that cannot vnderstand this reason euery Christian is such a rock as Peter was therefore Peter in being a rock was not made Pope or hed of the vniuersal church Origines procedeth vpon such a rock all ecclesiasticall learning is built But S. Peter is such a Rock saith Maister Sander ergo vppon him all ecclesiasticall learning is built VVho would wish such an aduersary as M. Iewel is who proueth altogither against him selfe Nay who can beare such an impudent caueler that findeth a knot in a rush For your conclusion is graunted M. Sand. that all ecclesiasticall learning is builte vppon S. Peter but so it is builte vpon euery true Disciple of Christe by Origens iudgement Againe Origine sayth If thou thinke that the whole Church is built onely vpon Peter what then wilte thou say of Iohn the sonne of thonder and of euery of the Apostles First M. Sand. chargeth the Bishop for leauing out in English this worde Illum so that he shoulde haue saide vpon that Peter whereby he accuseth him to deny that Peter is a Rock whiche is an impudente lye Secondly when this authoritie doth vtterly ouerthrowe his whole building of the popish rocke he can say nothing but that Iohn was a mortall man and so were all the Apostles aswel as Peter therfore M. Iewel saide not truely that the olde sathers haue written not any mortall man but Christe himselfe to be this Rock when Iohn and all the Apostles be rockes As though there were no difference betwene the onely foundation and rocke of the whole Church which is Christ all the other stones that are built vpon it Last of all Origen sayth Shall we dare to say that the gates of hell shall not preuayle onely against Peter or are the keyes of the kingdom of heauen giuen onely to Peter M. Sander aunswereth It is enough that the gates of hell shall least of all preuayle against Peter he hath chiefly the keyes of heauen But what reason hath he for this impudent assertion Peter of all the Apostles first confessed in the name of the whole Church Admit this were true as it can neuer be proued that this was the first time that any of the Apostles confessed Christ yet no primacy of superiority is hereby gayned if the sentence as Origen expounded it perteyneth to euery faithfull disciple What aduauntage M. Sander hath taken of the Bishops allegations let the readers iudge The eight chapter THe conclusion of the former discourse and the order of the other which followeth THe conclusion consisteth of 7. poynctes In the first he repeateth what he woulde haue men thinke he hath gained in his former discourse concerning Peter to be the Rock of the Church where on it is builte In the second for continuaunce of the building promised there must be alwayes some mortall man which beeing made the same Rocke by election and afterwarde by reuelation shoulde make the same confession whensoeuer hee is demaunded or consulted in matters of Religion If this were true there were no necessitie of the holy Scriptures neither yet of Synodes and Councelles if one Pope were abe to resolue all the demaundes mooued by all menne of the worlde In the thirde he sayeth if there muste be some such one Rocke it is not possible it shoulde be any other but the Bishop of Rome First because he alone hath beene the firste and chiefe in all assemblyes Secondly he only sitteth in Peters Chaire Thirdly and the consent of the world hath taken him so euer indeede but by the aduersaryes confession aboue a thousande yeeres But God be thanked the Churche hath no neede of any such Rock neither is any such taught Ephe. the fourth where the order of the building thereof and of all necessary builders of Fayth and doctrine are fully sette foorth And the three reasons are all false in manner and forme as they are vniuersally set downe as in their proper places shalbe shewed In the the fourth he gloryeth that he hath chosen to proue that poynte which of all other is moste hard That all the Apostles were not the same thinge that Peter was And firste he will aske in what Gpspell or holye Scripture it is written that euery other Apostle was the same Rocke which Sainct Mathewe testifyeth Sainct Peter to haue beene I answeare not onely by necessary collection out of many places of Scripture whiche he him selfe acknowledgeth to be the literall
his time of whom he saith Qui noster est socius which is our fellow In this sentence Optatus laboreth to proue against the Donatists which were scismatikes that ther is but one Catholike church froÌ„ which they were departed He vseth the argumeÌ„t of vnitie commended in Peters chaire whom he calleth head of the Apostles in respecte of vnitie not of authority which appeareth by this that in the end he accounteth Syricius bishop of Rome and Peters successor not head of all Churches nor vniuersall Bishop of al Bishops but Socius noster our fellowe or companion as one consenting with him in the vnitie of that Church which was first planted by the Apostles and not as a generall gouernor of the vniuersall Church of Christe Wherefore although Optatus doe more theÌ„ was necessary vrge this argument of the vnitie of Peters Chaire yet his meanining was not to set foorth an vnrepr ouable authoritie thereof such as the Pope nowe challengeth but onely to make it tbe beginning of vnitie At length he commeth to S. Hierome in an Epistle to Damasus out of whiche he gathereth diuers sentences Mâ—hi cathedram c. I thought it beste to aske councel of the Chaire of Peter of the saith praysed by the mouth of the Apostle I speake with the successor of a fisher and with a difciple of the crosse I following none first but Christe am ioyned in communion with thy blessednesse that is with the Chaire of Peter Vpon that Rocke I knowe the Church to be builded VVhosoeuer shall eate the Lambe out of this house he is vnholy If any man lâ—e out of the Arke of Noe during the time of the Floude hee shall perishe I knowe not Vâ—atis I despise Melitius I haue no acquaintance with Paulinus whosoeuer doth not gather with thee he doth scatter abrode that is he that is not of Christe is of Antichriste The conclusion openeth all the matter as longe as Damasus Byshop of Rome gathereth with Christe that is mayntameth true doctrine Hierome will gather with him who professed before that he woulde followe none as first but Christe For he woulde not haue gathered with Liberius Byshoppe of Rome whome hee confesseth to haue subscrybed to the Arians that were Hereukes in Catal. Script ecclesi What mockery is it then to drawe the commendations of a good Catholike Byshop maintaining true Doctrine to euery Byshoppe sitting in that seate agreeing neither in doctrine nor manners with that Christian predecessor Augustine must succeede Hierome who in his 166. Epistle giueth vs this rule Caelestis magister c. The Heauenly maister maketh the people secure concerning euil ouerseers lest for their sakes the Chaire of healthfuâ—l doctrine shoulde be sorsaken in whiche Chaire euill men are euer constrayned to say good thinges for the thinges whiche they speake are not their owne But they are the thinges of God Heere sayeth Maister Sander wee haue a Chaire of healthfull doctrine and that is afterwarde called the Chaire of vnitie therefore it is not the Chayre of euery Byshop which are many and of which many haue beene Heretikes but the only chayre of the bishop of Rome in which Chaire the Pope be he neuer so euill is constrayned to say good thinges and cannot erre But seeing I haue often proued that many Byshops sitting in that Chayre of Rome haue spoken euill thinges and were fylthy Heretikes it followeth that this is not a wodden Chayre that Augustine speaketh of but the Chayre of true doctrine such as the Chayre of Moses was in which not onely Aaron and his successors but euen the Scrybes and Pharisees did sit hauing the authoritie of Moses while they vttered nothing but that which God deliuered by Moses But when they preached false doctrine they did not sit in the chaire of Moses but in the chayre of pestilence as the Pope all other heretikes doe He talketh much of vnitie in S Peter in his chaire seaâ—e and succession as though any of these were worth a straw without vnitie in S. Peters doctrine which was the doctrine of Christ. But Sainct Augustine Contr epist fundament confesseth that the successioÌ„ of priestes from Saint Peter vnto this present time stayed him in the Catholike Church It is true he confesseth that this succession amonge many thinges was one that stayed him And yet he acknowledgeth that the manifest trueth Praeponenda est omnibus illis rebus quibus in Catholica teneâ—r is to be preferred before all thinges by which I am stayed in the Catholike Church namely before antiquitie consent of nations miracles succession of Byshops and the name of Catholikes Likewise rehearsing the same things in a manner against the Donatistes which Maister Sander hath not omitted Epist. 165. Hee sayeth Quamuis non tam de istis documentis presumanus quam de Scripturis sanctis Although we presume not so much of these documents as of the holy spriptures Wherefore as the argument of sucessioÌ„ was wel vsed against heretikes so long as there was succession of doctrine with succession of persons so now to alleadge the onely succession of persons where the doctrin is cleane changed is as folish ridiculous as by shewing of emptie dishes to proue abundance of victuals or showing vessels ful of filthy waters to proue that they are full of good wine because meate of olde time hath beene serued in such dishes and wine preserued in such vessels But if the authoritie of one man as Saint Augustine was seeme little M. San. bringeth the two councels gatheredin Africa Numidia against the PelagiaÌ„s which sent their decrees to the Sea of Rome That the authori-of the Apostolâ—ke Sea might be giuen to them Epi. 19. if they required the B. of Rome to agree with theÌ„ in the truth what pretogâ—tiue of supremacie do they grauÌ„t vnto him Nay rather they do pâ—iuâ—ly reprehend him that he had so long suffred the Pelagian poyson to be spread vnder his nose in Europe and the doctriue neither called to examination nor confuted yea rather seemed to coÌ„sent to the den of the bishops of the East that Pelagius was iustly absolued But Pope Innocentius himselfe praiseth them Ep 91. that they had kept the customs of the olde tradition in referring the matter to his Sea and sayth That the sathers not by humaine but by diuine sentence haue decreed that what soeuer was done in the prouinces a farre of they should not account it before to be ended except it came to the knhwledge of this sea where whatsoeuer had beene iustly pronounced should be coufirmed by the authoritie of this sea and those other churches should take it as it were waters which should flow from their owne natiue fountain We know the ambitious Ep. of Innocentius if it be not counterfeted because many patches therof are found in other decretal epistles but we deny that y e authoritie which he pretended was acknowledged by these two councels yes saith M. S. the fathers of the Mileuitan councel say
Homousians Athanasians c. but the doctrine of the Cathotholike Christians agâ—eeing with the woordes of God proued them to be no sâ—ctaryes nor Hetetikes so doth our doctrine iustifie vs what names soeuer be deuised against vs. But Maâ—ster Sander woulde haue vs to shewe a man whose pâ—oper name was Papa or Romanus as though many Heretikes were not called of their hearisie or place from whence they came and not of proper names of men Angelici Apostolici Barbarita Cathari Collyridiani Enâ—ratitae Patripassiani and a great number more were called of their heresie Cataphryges Pepuziani and such like were called of the place where they were Wherefore the name of Papistes and Romanistes agreeth â—ith the example of olde heretikes As for the longe tarying large spreadinge and straunge commng in of the Popishe heresie is therefore without example in all poyntes lyke because Antâ—christ is not a common pettit heretike but the greatest and most daungerous enemy that euer the Gospel had The names of Benedictines Fraunciscanes c. Maister Sander woulde excuse because these sectes maintaine no doctrin dissenting froÌ„ the Pope but all seeke the perfectiou of the Gospell by diuerse wayes as though there were any other way but Iesus Christ. Sainct Paule 1. Cor. 1. condemneth the holding of Peter of Paule of Apollo when the Doctrine was all one and counteth them schismatikes that so did And the purer Pâ—imatiue church condemned such apish immitators of the Apostles in forsaking all things and possessing nothing in abstayning from Marriage c. for Heretikes and called them Apostolicos witnesse Epiphan Cont. Aposto haer 61. The thirde Marke of an Antichristian is dissagreement among Heretikes and heere not content to charge vs with the dissagreeing of Anabaptistes from vs he amplysieth the dissention betweene Luther and Zwinglius about the presence of Christes body in the sacrament for which contradiction he thinketh it muste needes followe that one of them is an Antichriste I aunswere euery errour stifely mayntayned maketh not an Heretike except it be in an article of fayth necessary to saluation Cyprian againste the Byshopps of Rome Stephanus and Cornelius helde an errour in Baptisme as greate as that same of Luther dissenting from Zwinglius in the Supper of the Lorde yet is not Cypryan accoumpted for an Heretike Maister Sander replyeth and sayeth that Cyprian was not so stubborne that he woulde excommunicate them that held the contrary Luther also and Zwinglius althoughe they coulde not bee reconcyled in opinions yet agreed to abstaine from contention at Marpurge Anno domini 1529 Sleid. lib. 6. Maister Sander sayth further that in the contention of Cyprian and Stephanus the Catholike Faythe was not fully and vniuersally receiued in any generall Councell But hee forgeteth that the Byshoppe of Rome was one partie whose iudgement should haue ended the striefe if his authoritie had beene such then as he vsurped moste ambiciously afterward Nowe where as he defendeth the Papists for their vnitie which he sayeth could not bee with out the spirite of God I aunsweare he might as well defend the Doctrine of the Mahometistes where is greater vnitie then euer there was amonge the Papistes who to omit an hundreth small contentions of the schoolemen are not yet agreed of the greatest question of all whether the Pope be aboue the councell or the councell aboue the Pope For seeing some of the Papistes make the Popes determination to be the rule of truth other make the councell there is no vnitie among the Papistes in truth when they are not agreed what is the onely rule of trueth whereas we all agree that the word of God is the only rule of truth wherby we would haue all doctrine tried and examined The fourth marke of an Antichrist is to reigne but a short tyme and here he woulde haue vs to marke howe Luthers kingdome is come to an ende whose doctrine Melancthon hath chaunged although Illyricus woulde defend it What depe roote y e doctrine of God deliuered by Luther hath taken it is so well knowne that it can not be dissembled Neither hath Melancthon departed from him except it were in his opinion of the reall presence Wherefore this is a great impudency to triuÌ„phe ouer the decay of Luthets doctrine which dayly encreaseth to the ouerthrow of the Popish kingdom The fall of Hosiander an heretike no man either marueleth or pitieth The doctrine of Zwinglius and Oecolampadius of the Sacrament is the same that Caluine teacheth as euery wise man doth know and their learned workes shall liue and be in honor when the Popes decretalls and his Masse bookes c. shall stoppe mustard pottes and be put to viler vses Neither is Caluines doctrine failed by our othe of supremacie for Caluine in the right sence of it taught the same supremacie of Christian Princes which we sweare to acknowledge in our soueraigne Neither doth Beza teache any otherwise of the descending of Christ into hell then Caluine did nor otherwise expounded the place of the Psalme cited in Actes the 2. then Caluine doth as all men that wil read them both may see notwithstanding the shamelesse cauill of M. Sander The long continuaunce of the Popish kingdome is a small cause to bragge of when it being sound enemie to the kingdome of Christ is nowe entered so farre into destruction out of which it shall neuer escape although Maister Sander sayth it doth florish when it is banished out of so many regions and dayly decreaseth in euerie place Gods holy name be praised therefore The fift marke of Antichrist he sayeth is to preach without commission as Luther did who was sent of none I aunswere in the state of the church so miserablie deceaued as it was in his time God sendeth extraordinarily immediatly from him selfe as Helias Helizaeus the Prophetes were sent to the Iewes Israelites which were not of the Priests ordinary teachers so Christ sent his Apostles and Euangelists And so was Luther and such as he sent to repaire the ruines of the churche And yet the Papistes haue small aduauntage against the calling of Luther seeing he was a Doctor authorised to preache in that church where he first beganne which after he had reformed the abuses therof and restored true doctrine in many poyntes banished by the false doctrine of Antichrist The same reformed church hath euer since sent forth ordinarie pastors and teachers and shall doe to the end of the world The sixt marke of an Antichrist is that heretikes preferre the temporall sword before the spirituall And therefore Antichrist shall by force of armes compell men to a new faith for he shall come as S. Paule sayeth in virtute that is to say in power or strength O impudent falsifier of the holy Scripture doth not Sainct Paule say that his comming shalbe according to the efficacy of Satan in all power signes and lying wonders in al deceitfulnes of vnrighteousnes 2. Thes. 2. by which is shewed seduction by false
propitiatory sacrifice of Christes death once offred by which one oblation he hath made perfect for euer them that are sanctified Heb. 10. The auctor of this sacrifice which is the Pope he is in deede Antichrist the sonne of perdition But Maister Sander for proofe of the sacrifice of the Masse alleageth the prophecie of Malachie cap. 1. with 16. fonde comparisons of the defectes of the Iewes and the perfection of the Gentiles which he affirmeth to be the vniforme interpretation of the auncient fathers of whom no one denyeth the body and blood of Christ to be here ment albeit some of them expoundeth this prophecy of prayers and inwarde righteousnes which are alwayes ioyned with the vnbloody sacrifice I aunswer no one of the auncient fathers vnderstandeth this prophecy of the sacrifice of Christes body and blood otherwise then of a sacrifice of prayse and thankes giuing for proofe whereof I must referre the reader to myne aunswer to M. Heskins lib. 1. cap. 33. 34. 35. 36. where he shall finde the places of the Doctors set downe which are by M. Sander in place onely quoted But one other straunge reason of M. Sander to proue the sacrament of the Lords supper to be a sacrifice propitiatory I may not omit because I remember not that I haue reade it before Euery publike and externall facte which is made by Gods authoritie to put vs in minde of that greaâ— sacrifice once fulfilled on the crosse mâ—sâ—e also be partaker of the nature of that Sacrifice whereof it is a remembraunce As if the killing of a Calfe which signifyed the death of Christe was an externall sacrifice how infinitely more shall the body and blood of Christ beeing made of bread and wine to signifie his owne death be a publike and external sacrifice This reason M. Sander maketh no small account of But how beastly an absurditie his principle is you shall easily perceiue if you consider that Baptisme is a publike and externall fact made by Gods authoritie to put vs in minde of the death and bloodshedding of Christ yet no man was euer so mad to say baptisme is a sacrifice Againe the Calfe that was killed was by Gods appointment a sacrifice of the only singular sacrifice of Christes death not by vertue of the signification for the Iewes had other ceremonies then sacrifices which did signifie the death of Christ But the Lords supper is not by Gods appointment a sacrifice therefore the signification cannot make it so The 8. mark of the false prophets of Antichrist is to spoyle Christ of his inheritance which God gaue him in all nations as the Protestants doe VVhich for 8. or 9. huÌ„dreth yeres can not shew any nation town or village church or chappel in the wide worlde where they had publike prayer I answere seeing the spirit speaketh expressely of a generall Apostacy and of the flying of the Church into the desert it is no more derogation to the inheritaunce of Christ that his Church among many nations was in persecution vnder Antichrist for 7. or 8. huÌ„dreth yeeres then that the same was in persecutioÌ„ vnder the heathen Emperors for 300. yeeres and more For the nations were then the inheritance of Christ in as glorious wise as when the Church flourished in outward peace vnder the ChristiaÌ„ Emperours Yet was there townes countryes not only in Fraunce Italie and Germany but also in the east parte of the worlde great nations among w c Christ had a visible Church which were neuer subiecte to the church of Rome If M. S. reply that they held some errors which we deny as prayer for the dead c. I answere holding the onely foundation Iesus Christe they might be true Christians although they were infected with some such errors as these The 9. Mark of Antichrist is intollerable pride to make him selfe iudge of the sence of Gods word and of the text also I allowe this marke it agreeth to none that euer was so aptly as to the Pope whom the Papistes affirme that he caÌ„ not erre in the sence of the Scripture who affirme that he hath auctoritie to receaue reiect what bookes of Scripture he wil. But M. SaÌ„der saith this note agreeth to vs and that we make our selues iudges of the sense of Gods word and of the text But we vtterly deny that for we make the spirit of God in his worde iudge of the interpretation No sayth M. Sander bringeth an exaÌ„ple of these word's of S. Paul He that ioyneth his virgin in mariage doth well and he that ioyneth her not doth better Here vpon saith he we grounde this doctrine Virginitie is a better state and more acceptable to God then the state of mariage This we graunt in some respect as the Apostle speaketh but not simpyl The question is of these words he doth better what is ment thereby M. Sander chargeth vs to say that S. Paule meaneth he doth better in the sight of the worlde which is an impudentlye and therefore al his foolish dialogisme is a fighting with his owne shadow Beza expouÌ„deth he doth better that is more commodiously not in respect of the worlde but in respect of godlines for the reasons before alleaged by S. Paul S. Paul him selfe is auctor of this interpretatioÌ„ verse 35. of that 7. chap. 1. Cor. This I say for your commodity when he exhorteth to virginity And that his purpose was not absolutely and simply to preferr virginity aboue mariage as a thing of it selfe more acceptable to God it is plaine by these words First he saith of virgines I haue no commaundement of the Lorde But he hath a commaundement to preferre those things that are most acceptable to the Lord. Secondly he sayth I suppose this to be good for the present necessity by which words he doth emply that it is not alwaies absolutly better but at somtimes in some respectes for them that haue the gift of continence and for none other So we holde virginity to be better then mariage according to the meaning of the best auncient writers whereof some were too great extollers of virginitie yet not like the Papistes But M. Sander sayeth the Protestantes make them selues Iudges not only of the meaning of Gods worde but also of the bookes them selues For they reiect not only the book of wisdom Tobie the Machabees with other such bookes but also the Epistle of S. Iames. Nay rather the Pope is Antichrist for receauing these books of Wisedom Tobie Machabees w c were neuer receaued of the church of the Israelits nor of the vniuersalchurch of Christ for Canonicall Scripture as I haue often shewed And as touching y e Epistle of S. Iames it is a shamelesse slaunder of him to say that the Protestantes reiect it but we must heare his reason First Luther calleth it a strawen Epistle So Luther called the Pope supreame heade of the church and the Masse a sacrifice propitiatorie if Protestantes be charged to holde