THE IVSTIFICATION OF THE Independant CHVRCHES of CHRIST Being an Answer to Mr. EDVVARDS his BOOKE which hee hath written against the Government of CHRISTS CHVRCH and Toleration of CHRISTS Publike Worship BRIEFELY DECLARING That the Congregations of the Saints ought not to have Dependancie in Government upon any other or direction in worship from any other than CHRIST their HEAD and LAVV-GIVER By KATHERINE CHIDLEY 1 SAM. 17. 45. Thou commest unto me with a Sword and with a Speare and with a Sheild but I come unto thee in the name of the Lord of Hoasts the God of the armies of Israel whom thou hast defied IVDGES 4. 21. Then Iael Hebers wife tooke a naile of the tent and tooke an hammer in her hand and went softly unto him and smote the naile into his temples and fastened it into the ground for he was fast asleepe and weary and so he died LONDON Printed for WILLIAM LARNAR and are to be sold at his Shop at the Signe of the Golden Anchor neere Pauls-Chaine 1641. TO The CHRISTIAN READER Grace Mercy and Peace from God the Father and from our Lord Jesus Christ IT is and hath beene for a long time a Question more enquired into than well weighed Whether it be lawfull for such who are informed of the evills of the Church of England to Separate from it For my owne part considering that the Church of England is governed by the Canon Lawes the Discipline of Antichrist and altogether wanteth the Discipline of Christ and that the most of them are ignorant what it is and also doe professe to worship God by a stinted Service-Booke I hold it not onely lawfull but also the duty of all those who are informed of such evills to separate themselves from them and such as doe adhere unto them and also to joyne together in the outward profession and practise of Gods true worship when God hath declared unto them what it is and being thus informed in their minds of the knowledge of the will of God by the teaching of his Sonne Jesus Christ it is their duty to put it in practise not onely in a Land where they have Toleration but also where they are forbidden to preach or teach in the name or by the power of the Lord Jesus But Mr. Edwards with whom I have here to deale conceiving that the beauty of Christs true worship would quickly discover the Foggy darkenesse of the Antichristian devised worship and also that the glory of Christs true Discipline grounded and founded in his Word would soone discover the blacknesse and darkenesse of the Antihristian Government which the poore people of England are in bondage unto hath set his wits a work to withstand the bright comming of Christs Kingdome into the hearts of men which we are all commanded in the most absolute rule of Prayer to petition for for the turning aside whereof Mr. Edwards hath mustred up his forces even eight Reasons against the government of Christ which hee calls Independant and hath joyned unto these eight ten more which he hath made against Toleration affirming that they may not practise contrary to the course of the Nation wherein they live without the leave of the Magistrate neither judgeth he it commendable in them to aske the Magistrates leave nor commendable in the Magistrate to heare their petitions but rather seeketh to stirre up all men to disturbe their peace affirming most unjustly that they disturbe the peace of the Kingdome nay the peace of three Kingdomes which all the lands under the Kings Dominions know to be contrary nay I thinke most of the Kingdomes in Europe cannot be ignorant what the cause of the disturbance was But this is not the practise of Mr. Edwards alone but also of the whole generation of the Clergie as thou maist know Christian Reader it was the practise of the Bishop of Canterbury to exclaime against Mr Burton Doctor Bastwicke and Mr. Prynne calling them scandalous Libellers Innovators though they put their own name to that which they write and proved what they taught by divine authority and this hath beene alwayes the practise of the instruments of Sathan to accuse the Lords people for disturbing of the peace as it hath beene found in many Nations when indeede the troublers be themselves and their fathers house But in this they are like unto Athalia crying treason treason when they are in the treason themselves But for the further strengthning of his army he hath also subjoyned unto these his Answer to sixe Reasons which he saith are theirs but the forme of some of them seemeth to be of his owne making all which thou shalt finde answered and disproved in this following Treatise But though these my Answers are not laid downe in a Schollerlik way but by the plaine truth of holy Scripture yet I beseech thee have the patience to take the paynes to reade them and spare some time to consider them and if thou findest things disorderly placed laâ—our to rectifie them to thine own mind And if there be any weight in them give the glory to God but if thou feest nothing worthy attribute not the weakenesse thereof to the truth of the cause but rather to the ignorance and unskilfulnesse of the weake Instrument Thine in the Lord Jesus KATHERINE CHIDLEY THE Answer to Mr. EDVVARDS his INTRODVCTION _â— Hearing the complaints of many that were godly against the Booke that Mr. Edwards hath written and upon the sight of this his Introduction considering his desperate resolution namely that he would set out severall Tractates against the whole way of Separation I could not but declare by the testimony of the Scripture it selfe that the way of Separation is the way of God who is the author of it * which manifestly appeares by his separating of his Church from the world and the world from his Church in all ages When the Church was greater than the world then the world was to be separated from the Church but when the world was greater than the Church then the Church was to separate from the world As for instance When Caine was a member of the Church then the Church was greater than the world and Caine being discovered was exempted from Gods presence * before whom he formerly had presented himselfe c but in the time of Noah when the world was greater than the Church d then Noah and his Family who were the Church were commanded to goe into the Arke e in which place they were saved when the world was drowned f yet Ham being afterward discovered was accursed of his Father and Shem was blessed and good prophesied for Iaphat Afterward when the world was grown mightier than the Church againe then Abraham was called out of Vr of the Caldeans both from his country and from his kindred and from his fathers house g because they were Idolatâ—rs to â—â—â—ship God in Canaan Moreover afterwards Moses was seâ—â— and his brother Aaron to deliver the
children of Israel out of the Land of Egypt when Pharaoh vexed them h at which time God wrought their deliverance i separating wondrously between the Egyptians and the Israelites and that which was light to the one was darkenesse to the other Afterwards when Cerah and his Congregation rebelled against God and were obstinate therein k the people were commanded to depart from the tents of those with 〈…〉 l were the children separated from the parents and those who did not separate were destroyed by fire m and swallowed by the earth n upon the day which God had appointed * as 〈…〉 Noahs time who repented not were swallowed by wateâ— Moreover when God brought his people into the promised Land he commanded them to be separated from the Idolaters and not to meddle with the accursed things And for this cause God gave them his Ordinances and Commandements and by the manifestation of their Obediance to them they were known to be the onely people of God * which made a reall separation And when they were carried captive into Babylon aâ— any time for their sinnes God raised them up deliverers to bring them from thence and Prophets to call them from thence p and from their backesliding q And it was the practise of all the Prophets of God which prophesied of the Church under the New Testament to separate the precious from the vile and God hath declared that hee that so doth shall be as his mouth Jer. 15. 19. And we know it was the practise of the Apostles of the Lord Iesus to declare to the people that there could be no more agreement betweene beleevers and unbeleevers than betweene light and darkenesse God and Belial as Paul writing to the Corinthians doth declare when he saith Be not unequally yoked together with unbeleevers for what fellowship hath righteousnesse with unrighteousnesse and what communion hath light with darkenesse and what concord hath Christ with Belial or what part hath he that beleeveth with an Infidell and what agreement hath the Temple of God with Idolls for yee are the Temple of the living God as God hath said I will dwell in them and walke in them and I will be their God and they shall be my people Wherefore come out from among them and by yee Separate saith the Lord and touch not the uncleane thing and I will receive you and I will be a Father unto you and yee shall be my sonnes and daughters saith the Lord Almighty 1 Cor. 6. 14 15 16 17 18. Moreover they are pronounced blessed which reade heare and keepe the words of the Booke of the Revelation of Iesus Christ r among which sentences there is a commandement from heaven for a totall Separation s These things in briefe I have minded from the Scriptures to prove the necessitie of Separation and though the Scripture be a deepe Well and containeth in the Treasures thereof innumerable Doctrines and Precepts tending to this purpose yet I leave the further prosecution of the same till a fitter opertunity be offered to me or any other whom the Lord shall indue with a greater measure of his Spirit But Mr. Edwards for preparation to this his desperate intention hath sent these Reasons against Independant government and Toleration and presented them to the Honorable House of Commons which Reasons I thinke he would have to be get a Snake to appeare as he saith under the greene grasse for I am sure he cannot â—ake the humble petitions of of the Kings subjects to be a Snake for petitioning is a way of peace and submission without violence or venum neither can it cast durt upon any government of the Nation as he unjustly accuseth the Protestation Protested for that Author leaveth it to the Magistrate not undertaking to determine of himselfe what government shall be set ever the Nation for the bringing of men to God but leaveth it to the consideration of them that have authority And whereas Mr. Edwards grudges that they preach so often at the Parliament in this he is like unto Amaziah who bid the Prophet Amos to flee away into the Land of Juâ—â—a and not to Prophesie at Bethel the Kings Chappell and the House of the Kingdome * And though Mr. Edwards boast himselfe heare to be a Minister of the Gospell and a sufferer for it yet I challenge him to prove unto me that he hath any Calling or Ordination to the Ministry but that which he hath successively from Rome If he lay claime to that he is one of the Popes household But if he deny that calling then is he as void of a calling to the worke of the Ministry and as void of Ordination as any of those Ministers whom hee calleth Independant men which have cast off the Ordination of the Prelates and consequently as void of Ordination as a macanicall trades man And therefore I hope that Honourable House that is so full of wisedome which Mr Edwards doth confesse will never judge these men unreasonable because they do Petition nor their petitions unreasonable before they are tried and so proved by some better ground then the bare entrance of Mr. Edwards his Cavit or writ of Ne admittas though he saith he foâ—ched it from heaven for I know it was never there Neither is it confirmed by the Records of holy Scripture but taken from the practise of Nimrod That mighty Hunter before the Lord * and from the practise of Haman that wicked persecucuter * from the evill behaviour and malicious speeches and gesture of wicked Sanballet * and Tobias who were both bitter enemies to God and sought to hinder the building of the walles of Jerusalem But the Prophet Haggai reproveth not onely such as hindred the building of the Lords House but also those that were contented to live in their seyled Houses and suffer the Lords House to lie waste Hag. 1 AN ANSVVER To Mr. EDVVARDS his BOOKE Intituled REASONS against the Independent GOVERNMENT in particular CONGREGATIONS Mr. EDWARDS I Understanding that you are a mighty Champion and now mustering up your mighty forces as you say and I apprehending they must come against the Hoast of Israel and hearing the Armies of the Living God so defied by you could not be withheld but that I in stead of a better must needs give you the meeting First Whereas you affirme That the Church of God which is his House and Kingdome could not subsist with such provision as their father gave them which provision was by your owne confession the watering of them by Evangelists and Prophets when they were planted by the Apostles and after planting and watering to have Pastors and Teachers with all other Officers set over them by the Apostles their own Election yet notwithstanding all this provision the Father hath made for them it was evident say you they could not well stand of themselves without some other helpe This was the
consciences and thus you may see it taketh away no authority which God hath given to them The next thing you say is that they cannot be certaine that their servants and children sanctifie the Lords day To which I answer that indeede unbeleeving Masters take as little care of this as they that have given liberty to prophane the Lords Day but beleeving Parents and Masters may easily know if their children or servants be of any Congregation what their life and conversation is and therefore this can hinder no duties or workes of Families as you falsely affirme nor crosse the good and peace of Familes By this you may see that this your groundlesse affirmation is no good Reason against Toleration And therefore the Court of Parliament to whom you submit for judgement may easily see that good members both for Churches and Common-wealths may issue out of such Families that live under Christs government and that such Families may be good Nurseries both for Church and Common-wealth Thus much for your third Reason IN your fourth Reason you doe affirme that there will be great danger of disputes amongst you about Government and Worship and Doctrine and practises in the Conclusion you say it will be about a question where Saints goe when they die whether to heaven or a third place I Answer This is a question I never heard amongst the Separates or any of those whom you call Independant men but amongst the Papists of Rome and England The next thing is about sitting with hats on to breake bread I Answer this may be a question indeed but not to breede division for it may be as lawfull for one man to sit covered another uncovered as it may be lawfull for one man to receive it sitting and another lying in bed But if any man list to be contentious the Churches of God have no such custome Thus much for your Fourth Reason IN your fifth Reason you affirme that the Ministers of the Kingdome can have little assurance of the continuance of their flockes to them if such a toleration be granted but that the tolerated Churches will admit them into fellowship and increase Churches out of their labours and that they should doe little else but spend and be spent To this I answer that if you were the Ministers of Christ as you would be taken to be it might be your comfort joy and glory for it was the Apostles worke to gather the Saints and to travell in birth of children and they did not grudge that they were added unto the Churches of Christ but tooke care for them being so added for the care of all Churches lay upon them and therefore they were as Fathers and Nurses unto them and the Gospell admits of no such theft as to steale away members from other Churches but if men draw neere to the truth which never were members of any Church and offer themselves to joyne unto us we may admit them upon good experience of their life and conversation for those members that travelled from one Church to another were commended unto those Churches by Letters from the Church where they were members or else they could not have beene admitted and thus you may see the way of the Gospell admits of no such disorder Now whereas you say that this Toleration upon any light occasion of demanding dues or preaching against any thing they like not opens a wide doore and will invite them to disert their Ministers I answer by demanding of that which you call dues you may indeede give just occasion for you may demand for due that which is not due as all the Priests of England doe Likewise by preaching of Doctrine you may give just occasion if you justifie the wicked and condemne the just and make sad the hearts of those whom God would not have made sad and then if your people flye from you you may thanke your selves but concerning what you count to be your due I will declare hereafter * Thus much for your fifth Reason NOw in the beginning of your sixth Reason you say that liberty will be an undoubted meanes and way of their infinite multiplication and increase even to thirty fould Truely I thinke you are afraid as Pharaoh was least the Lords people should grow mightier then you Next you say if the Parliament could like to have more of the breede of them and have a delight to have multitudes exempted from the Ecclesiasticall Lawes of the Land c. I answer it is no disgrace to the Parliament if they should so delight though never Parliament before had done the like Moreover you say they have increased within this nine moneths without a toleration therefore you conclude they would multiply much if they had a toleration in many if not in most Townes and Parishes and â—ou say it cannot be helped All this I grant may be although they have not a Toleration I thinke they will increase for the Taskemasters can lay no heavier burthens upon them then they have laid already but though they should increase it will not be unprofitable for the increase of beleevers will be the strength and glory of the Kingdome for they will in all lawfull things be subject to the Kings Majestie their dread Soveraigne and to all the wholesome Lawes of his Land and therefore it will be no danger to have as you say swarmes of them Thus much for your Sixth Reason IN your 7th Reason you affirme that it will be very preâ—udiciall dangerous and insufferable to this Kingdome for Saints two or three or more to gather and combine themselves in Church Fellowship having one â—â— power from Christ their immediate heade without expecting warrant from any Governors First whereas you say it will be prejudiciall I answer It can prejudice none in the Kingdome except it be the Priests and it will be but of a little tithes which they dare not in conscience pay because those Iewish Ceremonies are ceased and if they have not Toleration that will be all one in that respect for they will rather suffer then doe any thing against conscience Now whereas you say it will be dangerous and insufferable to the Kingdome both these I deny for if they were offensive people two or three or a few could doe but little hurt But they have beene proved to be a peaceable people and the suffering of such hath never beene dangerous to any Nation but the not suffering of such to live quietly in a Land or to passe quietly thorow a land hath brought Judgements upon such Lands Now whereas you seeme to imply that they should aske leave of the Magistrate to gather and combine themselves into visible Churches c. I answer I doe not reade that any ever asked leave of the Magistrate for such a thing nor to performe any of the parts of Gods Worship or Discipline and yet you confesse that these independant men doe petition to the Parliament for liberty * Now I pray
and though it be not in exsise for victuals yet it is in some other wayes from which the subjects of Holland are freed The next thing you affirme is That your riches and strength standeth in one way of Religion To which I answer I thinke if I could understand your minde herein you meane the riches and strength of the Priests for I am sure the riches and strength of the Kingdome may stand best with Toleration as it may appeare partly by what hath been said already for you have heard that the Lords people whom you thus persecute maintaine their owne poore And it will also be made appeare that they pay Scot and Lot in the Kingdome in all civill respects and are all as true subjects to the Kings Majesty and are ready to doe him all faithfull service with their bodies and estates as any in the Kingdome But I confesse that toleration would be neither riches nor strength to the Priests for it is sore against the peoples will that they pay them any thing now and it will be no wonder when it shall be made to appeare what the Priests wages iâ— * but that shall be done hereafter THeir third Reason you say is That if they have not liberty to erect some Congregations it will force them to leave the Kingdome For answer whereof you doe affirme in the first place that there is no neede of a toleration for them neither that they should leave the Kingdome for conscience and that you say will appeare by the Reasons and principles which they doe agree to which you say are these First that they hold your Churches true your Ministers true Ordinances true Further you say they can partake with you in your Congregations in all Ordinances even to the Lords Supper To which I answer Indeede here you would make the Readers beleeve that they had opened a wide gappe if they should take your affirmation without your provisall but you come to helpe your selfe handsomely in that you say their condition was that it must first be provided that scandalous and ignorant persons must be kept backe and Cerimonies must be removed Methinks this is a mighty great mountaine that stands between them and you and therefore you have small cause to aske them wherfore they should desire to set up Churches fortill this mountaine be removed they may be true to their own principles and not go from their word and yet never communicate with you either in worship or government For first If you keepe out all scandalous persons out of all the Churches in England from the Sacraments and all ignorant persons truely then your Churches will be as emptie as ours Secondly If you should remove away all your Ceremonies which is the second part of your reformation you could not tell how to worship for your whole forme and manner of worship is made of invented Ceremonies But if you can procure such a reformation to have your Church all consist of persons of knowledge fearing God and â—ating covetousnesse void of all other scandalls so far as we can judge by the Scripture and that the Ceremonies may be removed and we enjoy as you bragge all Gods Ordinances with you as well as in our owne Churches then you shall heare what I will say to you as well as the Independant men But till all this be done you see there is still good reason for good men either to desire liberty or to leave the Kingdome Further you say some of them could take the charge of Parochiall Churches amongst you upon the Reformation I Answer Indeede such a Reformation which you have formerly mentioned will hardly stand with Parochiall Churches But you say they could yeeld to Presbyteriall Government by Classes and Synods so they might not be injoyned to submit to it as Jure Divino To which I answer It seemes by your owne confession that they doe deny the Presbyteriall government by Classes and Synods to be from God as it appeares in that you say they will not submit to it as Iure Divino and therefore you have overthrowne your selfe in all this your reasoning with your Synods and Classes also so that still there remaines good grounds to seeke a Toleration that the Saints may grow into bodies even in this Land But to grow into one body with you as you would have them while your Churches body is like a Leopard and all bespotted as appeares by your words were very absurd for you â—â—â—e affirme that the best of your members even the Professors especially of London and of the great Townes in England are very fâ—â—le yet I hope you will confesse that they are the best of your members then if it be true as you say that you must remove in your Reformation all ignorant and scandalous persons by your grounds you should have but a very few to make a Church of as well as wee For you must remove also all your Professors which you say are so scandalous Therefore I should rather counsell you to repent of all your evills that you have done and be reconciled to God the Father and Christ his Sonne and separate your selves from all your wickednesse and even come and grow up into one body with us Secondly you say Seeing your Churches Ministers and Ordinances be true the erecting of new and withdrawing from such Congregations can never be answered to God I answer Here you take for granted that which you cannot prove and it is your wisdome so to doe for by that meanes you may make simple people beleeve that you are very right except a few defects which no man shall be freed from while he is in this life But now to the point and first touching your Churches and Ministers which you say be true and you also say the Independant men would grant them to be true upon a Reformation such as the Word requires I tell you for answer that this your juggling will not helpe you for no man is bound to take your bare word therefore it is good you make proofe of that which you have said But before you goe to prove your Churches true declare unto me what Churches you meane for I ever tooke the whole Land of England to be but one Church as it stands established by the Canon Laws and that all the Parishes in the Land make up but one entire body therefore what is amisse in one Parish all the whole are guilty of and it will be laid to the charge of the Archbishops who are the Metropolitanes or chiefe Priests over the Church of the Land Seeing it is so you must stand out to maintaine your Church and you neede not to trouble your selfe about your Church-es for I know no dependancie you have upon any except it be Rome according as I have told you before in the conclusion of my answer to your first tenth Reason against Independencie Therefore this is the Church that you must maintaine even the Church of England established