the common-wealth and a King is as well a King of the Cleargie as of the Laitie therefore the Cleargie is subiect vnto the ciuill autoritie in temporall things for such matter is not ruled by any power spirituall a plaine demonstration The third Obiection from the prophecie of the old Testament and the euents of the new The Romish pretence This is the tenor of the late yongue Buls of Popes as of Paulus 3. Pius 5. and all their followers I the seruant of the seruants of God placed in the seat of iustice according to the Prophecie of Ieremie where it is written Ierem. 1. Behold I haue appointed thee ouer Nations to roote them vp and destroy them to plant and establish them doe excommunicate these Kings and their fauorites absoluing subiects from their obedience and commanding them to take vp armes to roote them out Is this the true sense of that Prophecie It was spoken to the Bishops of Rome in the person of Christ The Answer O arrogant glossers yea impudent glosers and peruerters of the sacred Oracles of God! Did euer Ieremie put downe Kings to root them out Hearken to your Lyranus No he did onely denounce Gods iudgements against wicked Kinges Hearken to that godly Pope Gregorie who sheweth that Ieremies act was onely By preaching and not by fighting If you demaund in whom this prophecie was fulfilled listen to your Doctor Capella It was fulfilled in Christ at whose comming Idols and false Oracles ceased and the Prince of the World was cast out Which Scripture lest the Pope might vnaduisedly applie to himselfe holie Bernard doth forewarne him to Beware of insolent pride for these wordes being applied vnto the Pastors of the church betoken onely an industrioâ—s ministrie but no predominant autoritie CHAP. VII The antiquitie of this pretended Papall power is examined from the Apostles times The Romish pretence THe Priest of the new Testament in the Priesthood of Christ haue more authoritie than that of the law ouer Kinges to depose them The Answer This is not probable except you can shew some footings either of Christ or his blessed Apostles or their holie successors in the purer periods of times But 1. Christ vsed not this ciuill iurisdiction For Princely autoritie as your chiefe Iesuite confesseth had beene supersâ—uouâ— in Christ whose end was to worke the worke of Redemption of man whereunto the onelie spirituall power was sufficient 2. Peter and the other Apostles neuer challenged temporall authority This also is confessed Apostles saith Carerius were subiect vnto the heathen Kings in all temporall respects because Pontificall gouernment is only ouer Christians within the church but the Heathens are said by the Apostle to be without 1. Cor. 6. Heereupon your Saunders doth conclude that Peter receiued of Christ no power ouer Heathen Kings He conceiteth a reason There is a double power of fortitude and Christian valour saith he The one in suffering aduersitie constantly the other in attempting and effecting hard matters couragiously that power of suffering as more excellent Christ chose as fittest for himselfe and his Apostles and their successors for the gaining of the world to the faith and therefore they did abstaine from armes and prescribe obedience The Romish insist As though there were not a difference of the condition of the church as of a vine there is one time to plant and water it an other to loppe and prune it The Answer As though the Church which before time was planted watred with the blood and deaths of holie Martyrs ought now for that is this mans scope to be lopped in the cutting off of the heads of wicked Kings Nay but if the patient suffering of the tyranny of Kings be as your Sanders truely said the more excellent Christian power than acting and working the death of Kings and that therefore that power was practized of our Lord Christ and bestowed on the Apostles for the confirmation of the glorious faith pardon vs if we fall at Iesus feet to choose the better part especially knowing that To all those who suffer vniustly for iustice there remaineth a crowne of iustice which the iust Iudge will giue in that day of Reuelation CHAP. VIII The primitiue Successors of the Apostles for the space of two hundred yeares and long after did acknowledge all Obedience temporall to all Emperours and Kings whether heathen or baptized although Tyrants or Heretickes or Apostatates yea euen then when they wanted no force to resist The Romish pretence IN former ages Christians said your Bellarmine did not depose wicked Emperours as Diocletian Iulian and such because they wanted force Which maketh some Catholicks said your Bannes now not resisting their Kings excusable because they want force For it is commendable said your Frenchman to suffer when thou canst not resist Otherwise Catholickes said your Creswell are bound to hazard their liues in this cause assooue as they can make resistance Whereunto might haue beeneadded your Cardinall Allen Ancient Bishops saith he might haue excommunicated the Arian Emperours and hauedefended themselues from them by force of armes but they did not by reason of greater forces of their Persecutors The Answer This is the very Arche of all your rebellious building which all your Iesuites haue erected and whereupon our bastard English Cardinall doth insist in his booke intituled A True and modest Defence for English Catholickes which how false and shamelesse it is I am now ready to shew vnto all true catholickes for their confirmation and to the others for their conuersion First in generall For. For the space of two hundred yeares we cannot reade saith your learned Tolossanus of any christians resisting Emperours of other times or in their most bloudy persecutions to haue raised any tumult in the Common-wealth no not then when they were able both by equall number and power to match them But heerin they thought their religion aduanced before all others and gloried in this behalfe to be called Christians who professed this as a most holy doctrine namely obedience to Magistrates True the patient Christian did aduance Christian religion by suffering vnder Kings but the now pragmaticall Christian God grant I may be a false Prophet by acting and plotting Strategemes in resisting Kings will ruinate the holy faith To Tolossanus agreeth your Cunerus saying The Martyrs of those times when they by reason of their multitude might easily haue conspired against their persecuting Tyrants Hearken you conspirators and be ashamed yet for the honour of Christ by performing obedience to the higher power chose rather to suffer then resist For as saith S. Augustine they would demonstrate their hope of the life to come and by their confessions and deaths whereby they gaue witnesse to the truth of God were called Martyrs witnesses whose number was so great that if it had pleased Christ to arme them and aid them as he did
Highnesse your grace in sparing me did not spare mee one whit but was pleased to call me whereby is signified a ciuill simplicity foole But let not my Lord from his earthly preeminence too hastily disdaine the Priests of God but in his princely wisedome for his cause whose seruants they be so rule ouer them that he denie them not due reuerence Heerein we finde another clause of the forme of our English oath Power ouer all persons euen the Pope himselfe yeelding that which is not due but only to a Superiour rule and requiring that which may be yeelded to an inferiour Reuerence or curteous respect For it is without doubt saith your Bishop Espencaeus that Gregorie did acknowledge a soueraigntie in Emperours ouer Priests We haue not yet passed the period of 600. yeares now therefore CHAP. X. We descend vnto the ages following of foure centuries more which may make vp a complete thousand yeres The Romish Pretence ANcient generall Councels were gathered not without the cost of good and Christian ones Emperours and were made by their consents for in those dâ—ues the Pope did make supplication to the Emperour that by his authority he would gather Synods But after those times all causes were changed because the Pope who is head in spirituall matters cannot be subiect in temporall Who would thinke this man could be a Papist much lesse a Iesuit how much lesse a Cardinall who thus disableth the title of the Pope granting to vs in these words After these times that is after 600. yeres the truth of purer Antiquity challenging Popes to be subiect vnto Christian Emperours And yet who but a Papist would as it were in despite of Antiquity defend the degenerate State saying After those times Popes might not be subiect in temporall matters As if he should haue said Thou gratious fauour of ancient Christian Emperours thou sound iudgement of ancient reuerend Fathers thou deuout subiection of ancient holy Popes in summe thou ancient purity and pure Antiquity adiew But we may not so bastardly reiect the depositum and doctrine of humble subiection which we haue receiued from our Fathers of the first 600. yeares and not so only but which as your Bercklay witnesseth the vniuersall Christian world embraced With common consent for a full thousand yeares Which is further confessed by others in the Chapters following CHAP. XI We further challenge the consent of successiue Antiquity in the currant of more than 1000. yeares after Christ wherein the Papallpretended Iurisdiction ouer Kings hath beene euidently controwled The Romish Pretence WE haue many examples of Emperours deposed by Popes as Leo Fredericke Henry 1. Freder 2. Otho 1. Lewis 3. Lewis 4. Henry 4. who was deposed by Gregory the 7. The Answer This argument The Popes did depose them from their temporall authority Ergo He had authority to depose them will iustifie all Pyrates and theeues in their spoiles all Tyrants in their vsurpations and will impeach this authority of the Pope which you would heereby defend For as your Cardinall doth confesse Many Emperours haue deposed many Popes Therefore from the act done to conclude a right of doing is no good argument Let vs therefore examine the worke by the square and not the square by the worke and by the law of doing trie the lawfulnesse of the thing done And first beyond the antiquity of a thousand yeares granted we find that the first who euer violently deposed an Emperour is the last of them whom you cite for authority of deposing them For I reade and reade saith your Otto Frisingensis and I find that Pope Gregory the 7. called Hildebrand in the yeare 1060. was the first Pope that euer depriued an Emperour of his regiment He was the first Pope saith your bishop Espencaeus who by making a new rent betwixt Kingdome and Popedome did raise force against the Emperiall diademe arming himselfe by his example excited other Popes against Princes excommunicate An act new you see and that it is also naught will appeare by the Actor Pope Greg. the 7. saith your Chronographer was excommunicate of the Bishops of Italy for that he had defamed the Apostolike See by Simony and other Capitall crimes There is an Instance giuen in the Donation of Constantine which proueth the Popes to haue beene notable forgerers The Romish Pretence Boniface Bishop of Rome so saith Carerius writ to Philip King of France to let him vnderstand that Philip ought to acknowledge vnto him both spirituall and temporall subiection and whosoeuer shall thinke otherwise saith Boniface we iudge and declare him an Hereticke The Answer May it be lawfull for vs to aske you by what law this temporall is assumed There is extant the Donation of Constantine saith Sanders sufficiently defended against all Heretickes Then belike this iurisdiction was from man and not from God Not so saith Carerius for it was rather a restitution than a Donation because he did but returne it being a Christian which he had receiued by Tyrannicall vsurpation being an Heathen therefore according to the iudgement of Turrecremata did not now so much giue it as publish it to be due to the Pope What was contained in this schedule There was heerin specified saith your Valla and so is the tenor of the Donation a conueiance of the kingdome of Sicily Naples all Italy France Spaine the Countries of the Germans and Britans and all the Western part of the world This is a goodly gift if it be good but I heare Luther say It is a large lie But you had rather heare your Doctors speake although they may seem partiall because yours The most ancient Historians authors of best credit saith your Canus and such as purposely and most diligently recorded the acts of Constantine and yet make no mention of any such Donation Which Pius the second Pope of Rome did as saith your bishop Balbus proue to be a slatte counterfet So that now your Popes temporall hold should be forfetted because it doth appeare that your Pastor in this challenge is a meere imposter The Donation is called palea and therefore as light chaffe I passe this ouer What is your next claime CHAP. XII Popish Arguments from Reason The first wherein they failing to prooue the temporall dominion of the Pope by succession endeuour to prooue it from successe The Romish Pretence THe Popes of Rome haue long since got not only possession but also dominion of the city of Rome a matter to be wondred at to see how after that the Emperours had many times sought to root out the Popes of Rome by force the Popes haue contrarily remoued the Emperours out of Rome the chiefe towne of their Empire and the property of Caesars pallaces and the city of Rome is without force come vnto the Pope This saith Sanders is the singer of God This saith Bellarmine is Gods prouidence The Answer As though
though he should do something contrary to the vniuersall state of the Church As for example saith your Azorius though hee should neglect the Canons of the Church spare offenders oppresse Innocents make a pray of the goods of the Church and violate the lawes of Kings yet is he not to be iudged of any but God Not though saith your Pope himselfe one placed in the Calends of your Martyrs hee should cary many people with himselfe to hell yet no mortall creature may presume to say why do you so Heere is a desperate disease wherein you will not suffer so much as practise of Phlebotomy much lesse an incision or exustion And yet in like case against the secular state obiect Gods prouidence said I like O no farre different The difference of Kings and Popes in this point The Papall power will be thought spirituall and thus being euill may be the baine of soules the power of Princes is but corporall Therefore â—â—are them not because they can goe no further then the body Now the bodilie tyrannie worketh in the godly patience patience supports martyrdome martyrdome gaineth a crowne of life Therefore this euill with patience may happily be indured but the spirituall tyranny doth captiuate the inward soule the souâ—…c commands the senses these practise sinne and the stipend of sinne is death euen the euerliuing death of hell Therefore heere is need according to Gods prouidence of power to depose so desperate a spirituall euill whereof it is written If the salt want his salinesse it is good for nothing but to to be cast vpon the Dunghill Marke then concerning the spirituall that God hath ordeined Eijciatur foras cast out concerning the temporall Resist not the powers CHAP. XV. The Arguments of Protestants against the pretended Papall power ouer Kings from 1. Scripture 2. Fathers 3. Reasons 1. Scriptures In the Old Testament IT is granted vs for the old Testament that Priests were subiect to their Kings and the necessity of due subiection to wicked Kings we haue exemplified in Dauid the mirror of all perfect loyalty which case is made more liuely by the Answer to the example of Eliah Scriptures In the New Testament Of many one shall suffice Rom. 13. Let euery soule be subiect to the higher powers If you doubt what power this is to whom subiection is due looke what he hath in his hand He beareth not the sword for naught It is a sword therefore power temporall if from whom this is due it appeareth Euery soule be subiect all other conditions of reasonable men If why this is expressed For the power is ordained of God The point in question is concerning the Subiect The Romish seeke two enasions to free their Pope from subiection The Romish pretence From this place the Protestants conclude that therefore the Pope ought to be subiect But I deny their consequent for the Apòstle writeth of subiection to Heathen Emperours to whom euery Christian was to submit themselues But now that Emperours be Christians they ought to acknowledge a superiour power in the spirituall Pastor the Pope The Replie This your solution doth destroy a generall maxime confessed of all diuines to wit that as your Acosta confesseth Insidels conuerted to Christian faith do not therefore lose their former temporall right Which we haue already prooued by your owne confessions and more then ten circles of Antiquity We argue further now from this knowen principle Princes by conuersion to the Gospell lose no temporall right which they had before their conuersion But in the state of Infidelitie we neuer reade that they could be deposed by their Pagan Priests Ergo this their prerogatiue may not be impaired by their obedience vnto the Gospell nay it is rather confirmed thereby euen in this text especially in three degrees First it teacheth greater Christian reuerence because in the Prince a Christian man doth not behold only man but the hand of God He is the Minister of God Secondly from Christian feare For Pagans as hirelings onely performed obedience propteriram for feare of the temporall Sword which man because it is in the hand of man might auoid by many meanes But Christians He that resisteth purchaseth damnation are dutifull for feare of the eternall wrath of the iust omnipotent God Thirdly from Christian confidence For Pagans assoone as the King doth tyrannize do rebel as though freedome corporall were their speciall good but Christians Wil t thou not feare the power doe good and thou shalt haue praise of God in suffering outward euill for well doing are confirmed in the hope of an euerlasting good Fourthly from the bond of Christian loue for Pagans by their Princes commands are naturally inclined to discontent and hate but Christians Loue is the fulfilling of the law are by the law of Loue made perfect to obey the iust lawes of men If therefore Christians would as they ought be subiect to the law of Christ I suppose there is no Pagan Prince if perswaded of this doctrine of Christ but would more easily be a Christian Their second Euasion The Romish Pretence The Apostle doth not restraine his speech to any kind of superiour power but speaketh generally of powers that be signifying aswell the spirituall power as the temporall Therefore Protestants may not conclude heereupon that the Pope ought to be subiect vnto temporall Kings The Answer If we suffer the spirit of God to be our Iudge the cause is plaine He beareth not the sword in vaine he meaneth the temporall Gouernour If we require witnesse of this truth from all antiquity behold S. Chrysostome saith your own Bishop and that truly doth vnderstand by euery soule that euery Apostle euery Prophet and euery Bishop ought to be subiect To whom doe other ancient Fathers as Euthym. Theod. Theoph. Oecumen and all the Greeke Doctors agree Yea Gregory surnamed the Great Bishop of Rome doth so likewise expound it and S. Bernard in his Epistle to a Bishop said thâ—… Euery soule saith the Apostle then must you also speaking the bishop of Senona be subiect he that shall offer to exempt you shall but offer to tempt and delude you CHAP. XVI Arguments of Protestants from Antiquitie HE that is Alpha and Omega first for Antiquity and last for Eternity Christ our Sauiour by the confession of your grand Iesuite as he was man and the Messias had no power temporall on this earth Secondly S. Peter and the other Apostles as is also confessed by your most vehement Aduocates in their plea for Papall hierarchie were all subiect to the temporall States Thirdly all ancient holy Popes Martyrs Fathers as is commonly granted yea when they had force to resist the violence of Tyrants Heretickes and Apostates did performe subiection to temporall gouernment as the ordinance of God Tertullian saying If we would be reuenged we could not want force S. Cyprian We
the Hebrewes of old what nation could haue resisted thew force Although these glorious Martyrs of the mother Church in their death whereby they haue anouched that good and glorious profession of Christian faith haue thereby also sealed the infallible truth of Christian obedience due to earthly Potentates yet will we not be content with these two hundred yeares but challenge the currant and successiue practise of 4000. more We therefore come to CHAP. IX The same duty of Subiection proued in the next 400. yeares FIrst Tertullian in his Apologie in defence of Christian loyalty God forbid saith he that Christian professours should reuenge themselues with humane power or feare that touch of persecution whereby they are tried for if we would either seeke secret reuenge or vse open hostility can you imagine we could want sufficient force we are visibly knowen vnto you and are interested in all your affaires your Cities Iles Forts Borrowes Tents Tribes Decuries Senate Maâ—kets are all full of Christians except only your temples Now what warre are not we ready and sit for who being in power moe yet do willingly suffer death if by this profession it were not more lawfull to be killed than to kill Heerein you who boast often of yours as great multitudes in England as there were locusts in Aegypt able to do mischiefe if you would and professing also to be willing as soone as you are able Compare but your God speed with Tertullian his God forbid and then you shall see that God cannot be said to be otherwise in your Popes Buls to kings than he was in Aarons calfe for in both there is a sinne of rebellion against Gods ordinance The second is Cyprian he likewise penneth an Apology and directeth it to Demetrianus the Officer of the persecuting Emperour answering in behalfe of all the Christians of his time None of vâ—when he is apprehended doth resist or reuenge himselfe of your vniust violence although the number of our people be maruellous great for our certaine confidence we haue in him that will take vengeance of all transgressours doth confirme our patience Whereby you are taught not to glory of patience who if you had force would banish obedience The third is Athanasius writing an Apologie for himselfe to Constantius an Arian Emperor and therfore hereticall to free himselfe of a slanderous imputation which was that he had suggested some matter to the Emperour Constance a Catholicke thereby to kindle coales of dissention betwixt Brethren therefore he saith I call God to record vpon my soule and your Brother Constance could witnesse that I neuer spake word of you in euill part I was not so madde as to forget the commandement of God who saith Thou shall not speake euill of thy King no not in thy hart but did obey your command when I had charge to depart from Alexandria The summe is this When he had power to stirre the Emperour Constance a true professor against his brother Constantius an hereticke yet he made conscience not to raise rebellion but rather submitted himselfe to the violence of persecution If your Pope had beene truly catechized in this Creed of Athanasius belonging to the truth of faithfull allegeance he would not so oft haue raised King against King as your selues confessed And why then may not hee be that man prophecied of Sitting on a red horse and hauing power permissiuely giuen vnto him to take peace from the earth and that they should kill one another The fourth is Gregory Nazianzene in his Oration against the Emperour Iulian who the very hinge of this cause had beene a Christian and did after Apostate and proue an Infidell saith Against whom of you did wee euer raise any insurrection or sedition among your people though otherwise of themselues prone to rebellion or whose death did wee euer conspire But you lately whose deaths haue you not conspired The fifth is Ambrose When the Emperour infected with the heresie of Arius had sent magistrates to remoue Ambrose from his Bishopricke and the people thronged to rescew him In such power saith Ambrose that the Officers could not resist their force I quieted the people and yet could not auoid their malice Then sure he did abhorre by raising sedition among the people to prouoke magistrates to malice The same Father vpon that penitentiall dumpe of holy Dauid to thee only haue I sinned proueth that some Kings are not subiect to any penall law of man And for S. Ambrose his actiue profession in this kind it is confessed by your owne Doctor saying that Saint Ambrose when he was sufficiently armed both by power of people and souldiers strengthened with the might of Christ yet would not defend his Church with violence against the fury of the hereticall Emperor The sixth is Basill Who by reason of the strength of the forts wherein he was needed not to feare any danger yet suppliantly offered himselfe to Iulian the Apostate and caused the gates of the city to be opened vnto him thereby to appease his wrath against Christians The seuenth is S. Augustine who in his expositioÌ„s of some proposition doth concerning this point giue this instruction Whereas the Apostle saith he exhorteth that we should not resist gouernors in temporall matters he saith It is necessary that we be subiect and lest any might not performe this in loue but as from constraint and necessity he addeth Not for feare of wrath but for conscience sake that is not dissemblingly but dutifully in good conscience and loue to him God who commandeth subiection and as in another place he exhorteth Seruants Obey your hard and iniurious masters but not with ey-seruice as only pleasing men but God Therefore you must not plead Your most humble subiect aboue ground and from the concaue and vautes of the earth seeke how to humble your soueraigne Forey seruice and hart-seruice do distinguish a Christian from a Pagan according to that of Arnobius You Pagans do feare onely the outward sight of men we only the inward conscience of our mind The eight is Pope Leo writing to a true Catholicke Emperour You may not be ignorant saith he that your Princely power is giuen vnto you not only in worldly regiment but also Spirituall for the preseruation of the Church As if hee had said Not only in causes temporall but also inspirituall so far as it belongeth to outward preseruation not to the personall administration of them And this is the substance of our English oath and further neither do our Kings of England challenge nor subiects condiscend vnto We are not yet passed the lists of 500. yeares The last is Pope Gregory in his Epistle to Mauritius a right Christian Emperour To this end saith he is power ouer all persons giuen from heauen vnto my Lord that good men may be helped in the way to the kingdome of heauen And again In those gratious commands of your
power soueraigne ouer Kings challenged by Popes against which he so much inueigheth The Reply The summe of your Answere is that the generall doctrine of Papists is to denie all temporall and ciuill power absolutely ouer Kings and that no Pope did euer challenge it And yet behold before your eyes in this Reason to which you now would answere your owne Doctor Bozius produced against you who in his booke inscribed Of the temporall monarchie of the Church and dedicated to the last Pope Clement the 8. is so absolute for this absolute temporall iurisdiction of the Pope aboue all estates whatsoeuer that he extendeth it throughout the vniuersall world euen Ouer all Infidels to punish them for some causes with corporall punishments And he challengeth herein the consent of Andraeas Syluester Antoninus and other Doctors Canonists yea also which you denied that it can be showen Pope Innocentius doth challenge it A doctrine so common that Bellarmine doth confesse that Aluarez Syluester and many others do affirme it Furthermore because you say Your Discouerer cannot show c. I must yet discouer a greater and grosser consent amongst your Schoole in this point Alexander Carerius Patauinus of late hath writ the title of his booke is this Concerning the power of the Pope of Rome against all wicked Polititians and heretikes of this time This sure will be something to the purpose say on This opinion namely that the Pope by the lawe of God hath most full power throughout the world euen in all temporall or ciuill causes I defend and hereunto the common Schooles of Diuines do subscribe He numbreth two and twentie Authors and among others one called The illuminated Doctor and an other called Celsus by interpretation High or Aloft and therfore insignes him with Verè Celsus as truly so named and so truly he may be if we iudge him by the loftinesse of his style and coÌ„clusion which only this Carerius doth therfore expresse as being more eminent then any other Such and so great is the spirituall and ciuill power of the Pope saith Celsus that as Plato to one asking what God was answered he is not man not heauen not good but what more excellent so if any shall demaund what the Pope is by a kind of resemblance one may warily answere he is no Duke no King nor Emperour but more excellent What can this be else seeing God only is for excellencie called King of Kings and Lord of Lords but an other God Warily answered but wickedly Next he assumeth for autoritie of his defence The common iudgement of Canonists all building this opinion vpon the Decrees of Popes As if they should say if we be deceiued in our opinion coÌ„cerning the Popes iurisdiction then the Popes haue deceiued vs. What is that which Pope Innocentius decreed That God created two great lights the Sunne to rule the day and the Moone to gouerne the night signifying two dignities the spirituall which is the Papall and the temporall belonging to to the Emperour like the Moone Yet so that there is as great difference of excellencie betwixt the Emperour and the Pope as betwixt the Moone and the Sunne What can you inferre from hence That as the Moone hath no light but that it borroweth of the Sunne so the Emperour hath no power which is not depending of the Pope Thus Pope and popish by too much gazing on the Moone are become lunatike who by a spirit of pride carnally peruert the literall sence of the holie Ghost as it is Proued And the whole doctrine will be plainely confuted in the Confutation Wherefore seeing that this temporall vniuersall iurisdiction of the Pope some Papists with great consent euen from Popes haue proclaimed all which you haue vnlearnedlie denied which will yet be further confirmed in the next Chapter learne henceforth a necessarie point of modestie not to auouch a negatiue No one Papist saith so till you haue read sufficiently what they say Thus much of the temporall power popish considered directly Now must we enquire how it may concerne him indirectly CHAP. XII The discouerie of the common doctrine of the Iesuitically opinionated THat the Pope hath power in temporall causes This is true saith Bellarmine vnderstood vndirectly as it may auaile for the spirituall good In briefe This supremacie of the Pope saith Stapleton is a doctrine to be holden of all Christians vpon paine of damnation and separation from the Church of God The moderate Answerer But Catholikes defend only a spirituall as that is which they claime in temporals in ordine ad Deum that is for Gods cause and is not to vse the Disputers words A ciuill power Soueraigne ouer Kings directly but only a spirituall preheminence The Reply Vse my words but abuse not my meaning to make the Reader thinke I only intreated of the power temporall ouer Kings directly whereas in the Discouerie there is expresse mention of the temporall iurisdiction challenged of Papists both directly and also indirectly both which are hereafter confuted Here only we are to explaine them and to shew how both of them challenge a power in the Pope at his discretion to depose Kings This hath bene manifested in the former now it will appeare in the second which you forsooth His Maiesties most loyall Subiect do now mainteine namely A power spirituall say you in temporall causes as it may be behoofull for Gods cause And how that is meant your Bellarmine doth interpret Protestants denie saith he that the Pope hath any temporall or politike iurisdiction and power ouer Kings by the law of God as to be able to command Kings much lesse to depose them from their thrones and dispose of their Kingdomes But the common consent of Catholike Diuines is that indirectly and mediatly that is so farre as it may concerne the spirituall good of the Church the Pope hath a supreme power euen in temporall causes to put downe Kings and bestow their Kingdomes And yet you denie That he hath directly any temporall gouernment by the lawe of God A spirituall cosenage as is proued by arguments in the Consutation only in this place to be exemplified You may peradueÌ„ture remember that King whose name I haue forgot who being desirous to decree something coÌ„trary to that lawe whereunto he was sworne required counsell in this case Sir saith his counseller the Lawe directly forbids you this yet there is another law which permits the King to do what he list A dangerous State where the Kings lust is his law Now how is it in this your controuersie to say the Pope can directly iudge and depose Kings O no you will not For say you we denie This opinion saith Bellar. is the first extremitie as though you would acknowledge that to be directly a ground of treason yet you hold it lawfull When the Pope shall thinke it beâ—oofull for the spirituall good then
obedience and then you will easily vnderstand how largely you may become trecherous First the Popes Bull of Excommunication against our late Queene was nailed publikely vpon the Bishop of Londons gate but this gentle Bul of obedience doth without any voice range secretly we know not where it may be as the Popes Breue in Garnets pocket and named to be by them who are not because they do equiuocate Secondly the Popes Bull of obedience is so strictly commaunded as alwaies limited within the crooked hookes of this Parenthesis Rebus sic stantibus or Donec vires habeant that is Till there be oportunitie or Pro hac vice for this time Whereof our English State hath had too large experience For to insist onely vpon the present when the oportunitie of surprizing the King Queene and Prince was plotted by the Disciple of Machiauell then the Pope hath two Priests Watson and Clearke to dissolue that knot of obedience when after the oportunitie of that Sudden blow against the whole State had possessed the malignant then there is presently at hand a Prouinciall and his Priest subordinates to kindle the minds of their Agents hellishly to consume and swallow vp both obedience and all the persons to be obeyed That his Maiestie so gratiously wished there might be some meanes of compounding dissentions and an vniuersall mariage betwixt temporall peace and truth of Religion proceeded from his most Christian heart teaching rather what you shold then what you will do who deny to remit any Romish superstition though it sauour of meere noueltie As is apparant in the Oration of Gasper in the Councel of Trent where question was concerning the vse of the Sacrament in both kinds according to the institution of our Sauiour Christ and the vse Ecclesiasticall for a thousand yeares in Gods Church did resolue notwithstanding no but why Ne errasse videamur His Maiestie saith All nouelties taken away you say We wish no more But if you would haue bene correspondent to his Maiesties wish you should haue answered We wish no lesse But your modestie would neuer yet grant that there were any nouelties in that Church where notwithstanding there is nothing else but daily brewing new liquor hopped with Wormwood His Maiestie hath expressed his meaning to call the Romish Church our Mother Church as that Church Romish may now call Hierusalem but when both mothers will be parricides to murther their children which speake against Idolatrie their spirituall adulterie they may be called mothers in name in deede monsters You cite Bellarmine and omit this his sentence It is not lawfull to suffer a King who is an Heretike when he shall labour to draw his people to heresie To iudge hereof whether he draw his subiects to heresie or no is the proper office of the Pope I suppose there is no Infidell in the world endued with any opinion of God but he would labor to draw his subiects to his opinion Now then the cause of our King persisting to be a Protestant is no better then his Predecessor for it is yeelded to the Pope both to iudge who is an Heretike and when he shall so iudge then according to his Libet to send from Rome comes a Non licet tolerare Regem Will your modestie neuer leaue deluding vs by pretended allegations of Iesuites as here to that purpose to giue hope of reconciliation whereas onely by the insolencie of Iesuites all such hope is debarred As is plaine by this forecited Iesuite for whereas that most graue and learned Cassander honored of two Emperors for his singular learning and pietie did teach that Emperors should indeuour a reco◅ion betwixt Papists and Protestants because saith he Protestants hold the Articles of the Creed and are true members of the Church although they dissent from vs in some particular opinions The grand Iesuite doth answer that This iudgement of Cassander is false for Catholikes cannot be reconciled with Heretikes heretically meaning Protestants CHAP. XVIII The Discouerie VVE haue alreadie vnderstood how they forbid to Kings now will we also examine how they inforce violence And in this case we argue thus The fift Reason Whosoeuer suggesteth a doctrine of forcible deposing of Princes from their thrones are therein manifestly rebellious But all Popish Priests defend violent deposing of Kings and Emperors Ergo Their Positions Costerus This power saith he of deposing Kings of their Crownes and Emperors of their dignities in behalfe of the good of the Church was alwaies peculiar to the Pope who hath no lesse authoritie as Christs Vicar ouer Christians then the hireling hath ouer his beasts So the Pope hath authoritie ouer the Emperor saith Molina because the Fmperor is but the Popes minister and is to vse his temporall sword onely at his becke But what if Kings will not inthrall themselues to the Popes authoritie It is not lawfull for Christians saith the Cardinall to tolerate any King who draweth his Subiects vnto heresie But subiects ought saith Sanders to indeuour to set vp another in his place Yea they ought saith Creswell to expell him out of his kingdome as the enemie of Christ. An vndoubted doctrine among the learned and agreable to Apostolicall truth Yea which is more Although the Pope saith Bannes should tolerate an hereticall King yet may the Commonwealth remoue him And yet behold a greater mysterie of this iniquitie then all these for suppose that the King deposed shall be willing to be reconciled to the Church Yet notwithstanding saith Simancha he may not recouer his Crowne The moderate Answerer Let vs grant this Proposition Whosoeuer c. The Reply Let vs grant We know not by this whether you grant it by Asseueration to allow it or onely by way of Concession for disputation sake as not to grant it This your Art of answering would be discouered for of one Maior Proposition in your 4. Chapter you say For this present I grant this Maior and yet after in the fift Chapter of another Maior This is the first Proposition I grant vnto Wherefore sophisticating in this manner Let vs grant deluding a Propositiō which discouereth so manifestly a doctrine rebellious will somewhat impeach your moderation of a guiltie disposition To the matter The moderate Answerer Not one of these particular Authors defend violent deposing of Kings The Reply Though I know your deuotion can dispence with lying if with an intent to couer the leprosie of your Sect yet me thinketh your discretion might haue taught you to vse that Art where it should not be so transparent as that any one of small reading might easily conuince you For what not one of your sect teach violence First your Frenchman The Nobles must depose the King as Iehu did Iezabell there was violence Your Parsons As Dauid did Goliah violence Your Card. Allane My Lords and deare Countrimen for Gods loue fight against the