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A51741
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A reformed catechism. The first dialogue in two dialogues concerning the English Reformation / collected for the most part, word for word out of Dr. Burnet, John Fox, and other Protestant historians ; published for the information of the people in reply to Mas William Kings answer to D. Manby's considerations &c. ; by Peter Manby.
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Manby, Peter, d. 1697.
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1687
(1687)
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Wing M388; ESTC R30509
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77,561
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110
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his Disciples Feet saying Si ego lavi pedes vestrâ—s c. If I being your Lord and Master have washed your feet ye also ought to wash the feet of one another This was a Precept yet hath the Church altered it lest the simple people should think a Re-baptization in it Why do not Protestants observe Christs Institution of washing one anothers feet before they receive the Sacrament So because the Apostle saith Accepi a Domino quod tradidi vobis c. I have received of the Lord the same which I delivered unto you that our Lord the same night that he was betrayed c. notwithstanding Christs Precept that the Sacrament should be administred after Supper the Church hath commanded it to be received fasting and Protestants do receive it before dinner And where Christ did break the Bread we receive the whole Host Christ ministred sitting at the Table we standing at the Altar Likewise it is commanded in the Acts that Christians should abstain à suffocato sanguine from things strangled and from blood but the Church hath altered it nor do Protestants observe it God commanded the Sabbath or Seventh day to be kept holy the Church hath altered it to the Sunday If then the Church may change things so expresly appointed in Scripture she may also change the form of the Laitys receiving under both kinds and that for divers reasons First That in carrying it to the Sick the Blood may not be shed lost or misused Next That no occasion might be given to Heretiques to think that there is not so much under one kind as under both But why would you have it under both kinds only to pervert and contradict the Practice of the Church For when you have it under both kinds ye believed in neither meaning a real presence in neither Now Sir as concerning the Sacrament of the Altar where you say you have a number of Doctors on your side and we none of ours indeed one to stop your mouth I think it not possible to find Nevertheless whereas your desire is to have one shewed you and then you will recant I will shew you two Ferebatur manibus suis saith St. Austin super Psal 33. I find not how this is true in David saith he literally that he was born in his own hands but in Christ I find it true literally when he gave his Body to his Apostles at his last Supper Again St. Cyprian de Coena Domini saith Panis quem Dominus Discipulis porrigebat non effigie sed natura mutatus Omnipotentia Verbi factus est Caro. What can be more plain than this yet to you it is not plain enough But give me your figurative significative and such other like terms and I will defend that Christ hath not yet ascended no nor yet that he was incarnate Wherefore I can only put you in the number of those whom S. Chrysostom speaks of Audi homo fidelis qui contra Haereticum contendis c. Hear O thou Christian canst thou hope to do more than Christ Christ confuted the Pharesees yet could not put them to silence Et tu fortior es Christo Wilt thou go about to silence him that will receive no Answer Thus much have I said not for you Mr. Cranmer for my hope that I conceived of you is now past and gone but somewhat to satisfie the rude unlearned people that they perceiving your Arrogancy may the better eschew your detestable and abominable Schism Fox pag. 658 659. Thus spake the Bishop of Glocester like a Catholique understanding Prelate After whom Dr. Story saith Fox thus inferred in words Master Cranmer you have made a goodly Process concerning your Heretical Oath made to the King but you forget your Oath made to the See Apostolique As concerning your Oath to the King if you made it to him only it took an end by his Death and so it is released if to his Successors well Sir the true Successors have the Empire now and they will have you to dissolve the same and become a member of Christs Church again it was no Oath for it lacked the three points of an Oath that is to say Justiciam Judicium Veritatem Thus Dr Story ibid. p. 659. Protestants will needs swear the King to be Supream in all Spiritual things or causes whether the King will or no and when they have sworn it they will obey him in such matters so far as they think good when he happens to be a Papist A. What followed after this B. After all this Cranmer made that Recantation which you have heard and retracted it again when he saw no hopes of his Pardon He had this reason to rejoyce says Fox that dying in such a Cause he was to be numbered amongst Christs Martyrs although he had no mind to be a Martyr much more worthy the Name of Saint Thomas of Canterbury than he whom the Pope had falsly canoniz'd meaning Thomas Becker p. 672. A. Of what Church dyed he a Member B. I cannot tell the Church of England being then abolished and Catholique Religion restored by Act of Parliament A. One Question you have not answered what were the Words of his Mission and Consecration both as Priest and Bishop B. That you shall hear by and by Give me leave to observe one or two passages more out of Dr. Burnet A. As to what Point B. As to that Candour and Simplicity which Burnet admires in him page 172. 1. vol. The Story is thus Burnet p. 172. second volume viz. In the year 1551. the fifth year of Edward the Sixth the business of the Lady Mary was taken up with more heat than formerly The Emperors earnest Suit that she might have Mass said in her House was long rejected Yet the State of England making his Friendship at that time necessary to the King and he refusing to continue in his League unless his Kinswoman obtained that Favour it was promised that for some time in hope she would reform there should be a Forbearance granted The Emperors Ambassador pressed to have a License for it under the great Seal it was answered that being against Law it could not be done The two grounds she went upon were that she would follow the ancient and universal way of Worship and not a new Invention that lay within the Four Seas these were her words and that she would continue in that Religion in which her Father King Henry had instructed her To this the King sent an Answer he was then scarce 14 years of age telling her that she was a part of this Church and Nation and so must conform her self to the Laws of it the Laws made by Cranmer Sommerset Dudley c. and that the way of Worship now set up was no other than what was clearly consonant to the pure Word of God that was King Edwards first Common Prayer Book which expresly commanded Prayers for the dead After this she was sent for to Court and
there hath been these Orders of Ministers in Christs Church Bishops Priests and Deacons which Offices were evermore had in such reverent estimation that no man by his own private Authority might presume to execute any of them except he were first called c. And Bishop Bramhall affirms with great assurance Among all the Eastern Southern and Northern Christians who make innumerable multitudes there neither is nor ever was one formed Church that wanted Bishops among all the Western Churches and their Colonies there never was one formed Church for 1500 years that wanted Bishops If there be any persons so far possessed with prejudice that they choose rather to follow the private dictates of their own Phrensy than the perpetual and universal practice of the Catholique Church enter not into their Secrets O my Soul. Bishop Bramhall Consecration of Protestant Bishops vindicated p. 431. of his Works printed at Dublin And you know the Church of Englands practice at this day which admits of no Calvinian Ministers into her Clergy without Episcopal Ordination NOTE Thus it appears by an Induction of all the several Denominations of Christians that in Cranmers opinion there could be no such National or Catholique Church extant upon the face of the earth anno 1556. as that which the Church of England defines Article 19th The visible Church of Christ is a Congregation of faithful men in which the pure Word of God is preached and the Sacraments duely administred according to Christs Ordinance in all those things that of necessity are requisite to the same So that his saying I reverence the Authority of the Catholick Church was but an illusion or vain pretence to avoid the Censure of Heresie his Catholique Church at that time being like Terra incognita in our Maps not as yet found out What tolerable excuse Good Reader canst thou invent for this Reformer have Lutherans Papists Calvinists Anabaptists Socinians Greek Church c. all those things that of necessity are requisite to the preaching of Gods pure Word and due Administration of Sacraments according to Christs Ordinance If so then shew me a solid reason if thou canst why a Church of England man should not receive the Sacraments of all or any of these Sects If the Church of Rome have all those things that of necessity are requisite c. how or where shall Cranmer appear at the day of Judgment If she have not then how is she a Member of Christs visible Church as Protestants say she is A corrupt Member perhaps you will call her but if she wants any thing necessary or essential to a Christian Church she is no Member at all If she errs only in matters not Fundamental or non essential as is confessed by very learned Protestants she is secure still but thou art not secured from Schism If she holds all things necessary to Salvation and no Error that destroys the Christian Faith she may be saved and what more wouldst thou have But whether she does or does not hold any Errors destructive of Salvation I pray who shall be Judge Answer that short Question if thou wouldst say any thing to the purpose What Authority had Cranmer to call the Pope Antichrist more than the Pope had to pronounce him an Heretick He swore Obedience to the Pope which the Pope never did to him He divorced Queen Katherine styling himself Legatus a Latere as you may find in Burnet A. But he appealed to a General Council what did he mean by that B. Nothing but to divert the proceedings of the Court for he valued the Authority of General Councils as little as he did that of the Catholick Church A. Pray make that out B. Burnet acquaints you page 176. 1 Vol. He viz. Cranmer said some General Councils had been rejected by others and it was a tender point how much ought to be deferred to a Council And as all God's Promises to the people of Israel had this Condition implyed within them if they kept his Commandments so he thought the Promises to the Christian Church had this Condition in them if they kept the Faith Therefore says Burnet he had much doubting in himself as to General Councils and he thought that only the Word of God was the Rule of Faith which ought to take place in all Controversies of Religion This be said in the year 1534. NOTE The word of God admits of various Interpretations the Question is Who shall determine which is the true Interpretation a General Council or Cranmer 's private Spirit in Opposition to that Council But his Opinion of General Councils appears further from the XXI Article of the Church of England viz. General Councils when they are gathered together forasmuch as they be an Assembly of men whereof all be not governed by the Spirit and Word of God they may err and sometime have erred in things pertaining unto God. Wherefore things Ordained by them as necessary unto Salvation have neither strength nor Authority unless it may be declared that they be taken out of Holy Scripture NOTE But who shall take upon him to judge of the Decrees of General Councils whether they be Consonant to Scripture or not shall any single Person Or any particular Church Where is the Modesty of that Shall any inferiour Authority take upon it self to contradict or reverse the Decrees of a Superiour If so then why may not any single Minister or Bishop of the Reformed Church protest against the Judgment of a Protestant Convocation If he may not do it without Censure how shall the Church of England being but a particular Church take upon her self to damn and contradict the Faith of all the rest of the Christian World A. Shew me where she assumes any such Authority B. Read her XIX Article viz. as the Church of Jerusalem Alexandria and Antioch have erred so also the Church of Rome hath erred not only in their Living and manner of Ceremonies but also in matters of Faith. Then see the third part of her Homily against peril of Idolatry and observe these words So that Laity and Clergy learned and unlearned all Ages Sects and Degrees of Men Women and Children of whole Christendom an horrible and most dreadful thing to think have been at once drowned in abominable Idolatry and that by the space of eight hundred years and more NOTE Here the Doctrine of the Church of England that Christ had no Church upon earth for the space of eight hundred years and more before Cranmer The same Homily teaches further viz. and at the last the learned also were carried away with the publick Error as with a violent stream or flood And at the second Council of Nice the Bishops and Clergy decreed that Images should be worshipped and so by occasion of these stumbling Blocks not only the unlearned and simple but the learned and wise not only the People but the Bishops not the Sheep but also the Shepherds themselves who should have been Guides in the right way