foresaide states in their gouernement and ministerie And if he can proue vnto me that their Churche hath neuer lacked the same appointed officers or that anie other Churche or congregation besides oures hath alwayes kept that charge and I recant Answeare TRuth it is that Christ gaue some to be Apostles some Prophetes some Euangelistes some Pastoures and teachers but where doe you reade that our Sauiour Christe euer promised all these functions to continue successiuely to the worldes end Shew vnto me anie which was called apostle or prophet after Christ his Apostles Saint Paule the blessed Apostle maketh mentioÌ„ of false Apostles which alwaies withstood the doctrine of the Gospell maintained the ceremonies of the Lawe and the inuentions of their owne braine and set them selues opposite vnto the true Apostles and if you will claime your succession from them I will easily agree vnto you There hath bene Preachers and teachers at all times saue onely when they haue bene kept vnder by your tyrannie which haue preached Gods truth and reproued your grosse Idolatrie whom your Church hath alwaies persecuted vnto death and euen vntill this time there hath bene and are Christians in Graecia and Asia which haue euerâ—â—â—e and doe yet vtterly detest the Pope the head of your Church with all your deâ—â—â—s and traditions But shewe mee in one place I pray you of the Scripture where euer Christ promised anie such succession to continue in all ages Yâ— were so that the truth of Gods worde â— the functions in Gods Church should â—ceed alwaies by ordinary succession tâ— you had a good foundation to builde yâ— succession vpon Then Christ our Sauiâ— by right should not haue controuled â— Scribes and Pharesies which satâ— Moses chaire which bragged of succeâ—on as well as you doe saying We are the seed of AbrahaÌ„ we are the disciplâ— of Moses vnto vs God hath made â— promisses as for Christ we knowe nâ— from whence he came And therefâ— they asked Christ By what power he dâ— such thinges who gaue him that auâ—thoritie and so they might very well haâ— said in respect of their outward successioâ— For so Annas and Caiphas were Bysâ—ops aswell as Aaron But that warniâ— and admonicion which Saint Paule gaâ— vnto the congregation of Ephesus toucâ—ing succession might satisfie you I know this saith he that after my departingeâ— there shal greuous Woolues enter in amoung you not sparing the flocke moreouer of your owne selues shall mâ— arise speaking peruerse thinges And againe he saith That true faith cometh not by succession but by hearing not the Bishoppe of Rome but the worde God. Yf Christ had appoynted anie such succession would he haue forewarned vs that desolation of abhomination should sit â—â—â—he holy place and that Antichrist should â—â—â—rude him selfe into the roome of Christ If you looke well about you you haue no cause to glory in succession for that by your writers sufficient is spoken to discredit your succession for one saith That many Popes haue fallen into heresies that Hildebrand in whose time defection froÌ„ the faith tooke place was charged by a generall councell to be an adulterer a Churchrobber a periured person a maâ—queller a sorcerer and an apostata Another calleth the Popes monsters and 〈◊〉 shapen creatures If your heade and chiefe of your Church be such what shall we iudge of the rest I wil take for proofe of your succession euen the confessioÌ„ of Pope â—drian the fourth Succedimus non Peâ—â—â—o in pascendo sed Romulo in parriciâ—â—â—o We succeede saith he not Peter in â—â—â—eding but Romulus in killing To be â—â—â—t what auaileth the succession of your Church vnlesse you coulde prooue that she hath alwayes mainteined the doctrine of Christ For Saint Augustine saith Thaâ— many doo giue the outward marke of a Byshop to wolues and be wolues them selues That the truth of Gods woord maâ— be the touchstone of lawfull succession giuâ— eare to the godly councell of a learned father It becommeth vs saith he to obeâ— those Priestes in the Church which hauâ— their succession from the Apostles anâ— together with the succession of their Bishoprikes according to the good wil oâ— God the father haue receiued the vndoubted gift of the truth An other being pressed with the like succession saith If any of my predecessors haue not obserued and kept the same that our Lorâ— hath taught vs both by his example anâ— also by his commaundement his simplicitie may be pardoned but we if we doâ— the like can hope for no pardon beinâ— now admonished and instructed of ouâ— Lord. And comparing all other Churcheâ— with the primatiue â—hurch the same fathâ— saith If the pipes of the conduit whicâ— before ran with abundance happen â— faile do we not vse to search to the heaâ— The Pristes of God keeping Gods commaundementes must doo the same that if the truth haue fainted or failed in any point we returne to the original of our Lord and to the tradition of the Gospel and of the Apostles that thence wee may take the discretion of our dooings from whence the order it selfe and originall first began Thus muche concerning the succession of your Church hauing no warrant by Gods woorde Papist 6. AND for the necessarie vse and execution of the foresaide offices they must further bee asked what sacraments the ProtestaÌ„ts ministred for the space of a M. yeares together in which they confesse their congregation to haue beene neare or wholly hidde what correction or discipline they kept for offendors to whom they did preache their heresies Where did 〈◊〉 principall pastor sitte in iudgement â—â—â—re did they gather as in a councell â—â—â—ye the trueth in doubtfull matters Hâ—â—e might Christian men iustelie ofâ—â—â—d with some of their Bretheren haue sought out your officers or congregation to make complaint of him or how if it lacked any man to haue beene baptized of them or to haue receiued the communion of them or haue ioyned them selues in faith and religion vnto them How might I say that coâ—temptible and vnknowne companie haâ— beene found out in this case If therefoâ— you can shewe me that euer anie man sougâ— iustice or knowledge of truth sacramentâ— faith or anie helpe of saluation at the Proâ—stants secret and close Church or anie othâ— where else but of Gods knowne Catholâ— Church And I recant Aunsweare 6. TOuching Sacramentes we finâ— two appoynted expresly by the worâ— of God namely Baptisme and the Lorâ— Supper The one doeth signifie our neâ— birth and regeneration that as by watâ— the filthe of the body is washed cleane through faith in the bloud of Christ oâ— soules are clensed from all sinne and wâ— are incorporat and ingraffed into the bâ— of Christ and made members of his boâ— of which he is the onely head the other doâ— put vs in remembraunce that Christ Iâ—sus is our spiritual foode and sustenaunâ— that he is the celestial Manna which came downe from Heauen and
Church of God by as though Christes Church shoulde bee alwayes knowne and disceened by outwarde offices and functions I haue shewed before at large that the true church of God might be so hiddeÌ„ the tâ—ue religion so suppressed that it might in mans iudgement seeme that god had no church at al or else a very smal Church â–ª yet neuerthelesse God hath from time to time sent some Moses some Elias some Ieremie some Baruch or some one or other to represent his true Church to publish his true law gospel to waken the people from sinne that the world might thereby be without al excuse as I haue named some whiche liued in the time of ignorance which diligently preached the Gospell and reprooued the idolatries of your Church There was moreouer certaine godly preachers in Sueuia in the yeare of our Lorde 1240. which preached against the Pope affirming his authoritie to be vsurped and the doctrine of the Churche of Rome to bee corrupt Arnoldus de noua villa a Spanyarde complained that Sathan had seduced the world by your Church of Rome from the truth of Iesu Christ and said That there ought to be no sacrifice for the deade Which your Churche earnestly mainteineth At Brugis were 36. citezens of Moguntia burned for the doctrine of Christ affirming the Pope to be Antichrist Militius a Bohemian a famous and godlie Preacher inueighed against the Churche of Rome saying That Antichrist was alreadie placed Marcilius Patauius Gulielmus Ockam Iohannes Gandauensis Luitpoldus Andraeas Laudensis Aligerius Gregorius Arminensis Andraeas de castro Buridianus mainteined all the Gospell against the Popes proceedinges Dante 's an Italian writer in his booke called The canticle of Purgatory declareth the Pope to be the whore of Babylon Tauterus a Preacher of Germanie preached against mans merites and Inuocation to Saintes Franciscus Petrarcha about the same time did write an Italian meeter affirming Rome to be the whore of Babylon the schoole and mother of errour the temple of heresie the nest of al trecherie Iohannes de Rupe scissa Anno 1340. did write that Rome was Babilon and the Pope the minister of Antichriste Conradus Hager taught twentie foure yeares togeather the masse to be no sacrifice that monie taken for Masses was verie robberie and sacriledge Iohannes Mountziger Rector of the vniuersitie of Vlme disputed in open schooles against your Popishe doctrine And at the same time Nilus Byshoppe of Thessalonica preached and also wrote a booke against the Pope and the Churche of Rome whiche booke is now extant in English Truely there passed no age since Christ as it appeareth by the histories in which Christes Gospell hath not bene preached by some one or other either priuately in the times of persecution or publikely in the peaceable times and tranquilitie of the Churche when propheciyng of whiche Paule speaketh and other godlie exercises hath beene vsed But howe the true Churche may be knowen it is manifest surely euen in the Scriptures of God in whiche we learne Christ in which we may learn the church by which we may know the difference betwixte the true and false Church S. Chris saith At this time all Christians ought to flee vnto the Scriptures Because since heresies inuaded the Churche there can be no triall of true Christianitie neither can Christians which be willing to know the true faith haue anie refuge sauing the Scriptures Againe he saieth he that coueteth to knowe which is the true Church howe shall he know it but onely by the Scriptures The Church of God I meane euerie faithfull congregation in the time of peace and quietnesse doth vse preaching Christian and profitable exercises and discipline as Gods name be thanked wee haue at this day especially in all reformed Churches and we haue had since Christes ascention your Churche hath alwaies persecuted the true Churche by fire and faggotte and other exquisite tormentes If I may be so bolde I woulde aske one question of you Whether the true Churche of God did euer from the beginning persecute or that it hath bene persecuted You will I thinke confesse with me that Caine a figure of the malignant church did murder his innocent brother Abell an image of the true Churche that Ismael persecuted Isaac Esawe Iacob Saul Dauid the false Prophetes the true Prophetes the vngodlie Pharisies Christe the Messias the false Apostles the true Apostles the cruell tyrantes in the primitiue Churche the faythfull Christians and to conclude your Romishe Churche the true Churche and professoures of the Gospell And this thing was forewarned by our saâ—iour Christe That in the worlde his churche shoulde haue tribulation that the worlde shoulde reioyce and his children shoulde be sadde that if the false Churche had persecuted the Lorde it shoulde in like manner persecute the seruaunt and that they whiche shoulde persecute the Churche of God shoulde perswade themselues that they do God good seruice Saint Augustine speaking of the persecution in the primitiue Church saith They were bounde they were imprisoned they were beaten they were â—acked they were burned and yet they multiplied And Iustinus Martyr sheweth what he thought of those whiche suffered being yet an Ethnike When saith he I herd that the Christians were accused and reuiled of all men and yet sawe them goe to their death and to all manner terrible and cruell torments quietly and without feare I thought with my selfe it was not possible that suche men shoulde liue in anie wickednesse But to returne to your Churche we may say truely that you neuer had nor vsed in your Churche rightly according to the worde of GOD either preaching prophesiyng or discipline as for prophesying vsed by the Apostles and all other godlie reformed Churches your Church of Rome neuer vsed If you meane by the spirite of prophesiyng which you chalenge as of right to your church the forewarning of thinges to come which office was ceased in the Church then take heede least by your owne confession you bewraye your church to bee that Sinagogue of Sathan of which our Sauiour Christ geueth vs warning that with signes and wonders if it were possible shoulde deceiue the electe You preached very seldom not in time and out of time as Paule admonished his scholler Timothie and when you preached you preached not Christ and his death to bee the onely raunsome for our sinnes but your owne workes and meritorious deedes not Christes Gospell but your Legend of lyes and your vaine and supersticious traditions for whiche you had no warrant in Gods booke The law of God and his true worship was either altogeather abolished or else most wickedly corrupted before the times of king Iosias Helias did also renue the same beeing before his time decaied â—t seemeth in like maÌ„ner that the people of â—e Iewes were fallen from God when â—s they said vnto Ieremy The words that â—ou hast spoken vnto vs in the name of
sense and â—ere not able to expound and interpret his â—wn meaning Saint Paule saith That we must to not heare an Angel if he bring aâ—ie thing contrarie to the Gospell Augustine expounding these woordes saith Whether it be of Christ or of his church or of anie thing else whatsoeuer pertaining either to our life or to our faith I wil not onely say if I my self but if an Angel from heauen shal teach vs otherwise then we haue receiued in the bookes of the Lawe and the Gospel holde him accursed An other godly father saith As what Gold soeuer is without the Temple is not sanctified so euery sense and interpretation which is without the holy scripture although vnto some it seeme woonderfull yet it is not holy because it is not conteined in the sense of the Scripture Call to remembraunce I praye you how vntruely and cleane contrarie to the true meaning of the holy Ghost your Church hath interpreted the Scriptures As vpon these woordes Fiet vnum ouile et vnus Pastor your Church giueth this exposition to these woordes There shal be one folde and one shepheard we may not vnderstand it of Christ but of some other minister that ruleth in his roome One saide vnto Pope Leo in the CouÌ„cel holden at Lateran Behold the Lyon of the tribe of Iuda is come the roote of Dauid c. O most blessed Leo wee haue wayted for thee to be our Sauiour So it is likewise sayde The Pope beeing the light is come into the worlde and men haue loued the darkenesse more then light euery man that dooth euell hateth the light that is to say the Pope and commeth not to the light These woordes are to be vnderstoode of our sauiour Christ who in deede is the Lyon of the tribe of Iuda and commeth of the roote of Dauid who is the lighte that commeth into the world and see how blasphemouslie your Church doth wrest these woordes and applieth them vnto the Pope Againe Pope Sextus affirmeth That hee can neuer be forgiuen whosoeuer he be which accuseth the Pope And thus he reasoneth He that sinneth against the holy Ghost that is to say Against the Pope shall neuer be forgiuen neither in this world nor in the world to come These woordes of the Scripture are thus to bee taken That they shall neuer haue forgiuenes at Gods hands which sinne against the holy Ghost And the Pope wil haue them to be meant of him I coulde rehearse infinite places to this same effecte and purpose But let the indifferent reader iudge by these fewe places howe vntruely the church of Rome dooth interpret the holy scriptures But let them beware betimes of the heauy iudgmeÌ„ts of god Wo be vnto theÌ„ that cal good euel euel good darkenes light light darknes sower sweete and sweete sower What is this but to diminish the authoritie of the heauenly woorde of God God dooth sharpely threaten That if anie man shal adde vnto these thinges GOD shall adde vnto him those plagues that are writteÌ„ in this booke if anie man shal diminish of the wordes of the booke of this prophesie God shall take away his parte out of the booke of life out of the holy citie and from those things which are written in this boke God grauÌ„t you true repentaÌ„ce that you may imbrace Christ his worde and escape these threatnings of God. Papist 17 MOreouer let anie man prooue vnto me that the true only church of god may at anie time be voyd of a spirit of falsly interpret any senteÌ„ce of holy scripture or induce any errours among the people or approoue any vnprofitable or hurtful vsage amongst Christians or that she suffreth any daÌ„nable abuse in her religion without open reprehension thereof prooue any of these proofes And I recant Answeare 17 I Haue prooued before at large that the true Church of God is neuer without the comfort of gods spirit which spirit doeth not visibly and openly in anie forme or substance reueale and shewe him selfe but inwardly ingraffe in the hartes of the elect whether they be manie or fewe the doctrine of the Gospell doth increase true knoweledge in them doth worke true sanctificatioÌ„ holinesse and doth guide leade them in al good actions I haue proued also that gods true church doth not corrupt and falsly interpret the holy scriptures as your Church of Rome doth in wresting and wringing the sence of the scriptures in comparing it to A nose of waxe a shipmans hose or in calling it A dead and dumbe letter But the true sheepe doth gladly here the voice of the shephearde do acknowledge all thinges to be contained in the scripture necessary for mans saluation doe confesse no hardnesse or difficulty to be in the worde of God But that the holie Ghost doth sufficiently expounde himselfe and one place expresse another The true Church doth not teach the people anie errours anie vnwritten verities any inuentions of her owne braine or anie thing touching doctrine or life which shee findeth not written in the canonicall scriptures doth not approue anie vnprofitable vsages anie fond customes or suffer anie damnable abuses in religion without open reprehension dooth finde faulte and doth openlie inueigh against all thinges which be mixt with Gods true worshippe and seruice by the deuise of anie man whatsoeuer and will alowe nothing to be vsed amongst gods people but onely that which is warranted by the worde of god In this your treatise albeit you speake generallie yet you haue a special meaning But truly euen in that thing wherewith you charge vs you bee most giltie your selfe For if those be worthily called Abuses in religion which be matters of faith and vsed in the Church contrarie to the expresse worde of God so that Christ may be vmpeere lett al indifferent persons iudge whether your Church of Rome or we which professe the Gospell doe more abuse true religion and induce erours amongest the people We say that wee must pray only vnto God in the name of Christ and vnto none other your Church of Rome saith That wee must pray vnto the saints departed and vse them as meanes for vs vnto God. Neuerthelesse God saith Call vpon mee in the day of trouble I wil heare thee Dauid The Prophet saith When I was in trouble I called vpon the Lord and he heard me And againe he saith I will confesse my sinnes vnto the Lorde and so hee forgaue me the wickednesse of my sinne Christ saith Whatsoeuer you aske my Father in my name hee will giue it you Shewe me now by what aucthoritie of scripture you can disprooue this and prooue your inuocation of Saintes we say That it is god onely which forgiueth sinnes that for Christes sake whose blood doth purge vs froÌ„ al sinne You say that the Pope can forgiue sinne and giue pardon for many hundred yea thousand yeares and that he can doo
hath cast away Gods holie â— worshipping images and idols and goâ—horing from God after her owne inâ—ns hath rebelled against the words â— Lord and despised the counsell of the â— high Therefore came the iust iudgeâ— of God vppon her as it did vppon the â—sh church of old Where the Lord saith your iniquities are ye solde and for â—r transgressions is your mother forsaken Againe Pleade with your â—ther pleade with her for shee is not wife neither am I her husband buâ— her take away her fornications c. I make her like a wildernesse and â— her for thirst and I wil haue no pitieâ— on her children for they are childreâ— fornication Loe this is the iudgemeâ— that Romish harlot which hath her dâ—ling in that great citie which ruleth â— the Kings of the earth who hath â— the kings of the earth drunken with cuppe of her fornication who is the â—rie mother of whoredome and of all the hominations of the earth which is druâ— with the bloud of the Saintes and with bloud of the martyrs of Christ who with tenne kings doeth fight against the Laâ— But the Lambe shall ouercome them â— they that be on his side the chosen â— faithful for he is the king of kings and Lord of lords To him be all honour and glorie for euer â— An answeare vnto the â–ª Papist which made this Offer or Challenge Papist CHrist did commit at his departing hence the testimonie of that trueth whiche he 〈◊〉 for the câ—â—uersion of all nations to the beliefe in him â—â—trâ—â— church of God which then stoode â—â—pally and almost onely in the persoâ—â— of â— Apostles and of a fewe moe that by their â—ching and others afterwarde of their â—ng the Christian religion might be planâ—â— all nations coastes and corners of the â—â— Wherefore I aske the Protestant â—t Church that was which conuerted all â—sâ— countries that nowe be Christen to the â—th of Christe and let him shewe me that â—er his Churche conuerted anie people or â—nde in the earth from Idolatrie or Gentiâ—â— or Iudaisme to the true religion of Christ or that this his faith was taught to anie nations in steede of true Christianitie or anie other Churche but the knowne Catholike Church to haue done this And I recant Answeare TRue it is that Christ did commit the preaching of the Gospell vnto the Apostles and vnto a few moe and gaue them this commaundemeÌ„t That they should go vnto all the world and preach the same Gospel vnto al nations who very painfully executed their office conuerted manie of sundrie countries to the truth Neuerthelesse suche was the rage of the wicked Emperoures Tyrantes of that time that the doctrine of the Gospel was not vniuersally receiued nor generally taught as it appeareth at large by the historie of the Acts of the Apostles as by the assembling of the Apostles in corners by their preaching in the night season in priuat houses Yet we confes that the voice of the Apostles was sounded abroad to al the world so that as Tertullian saith the Parthians the Medians the Elamites the people of Mesopotamia of Armenia c and many other nations and prouinces known vnknowen haue receiued the Gospel of Christ Saint Paule tooke comfort and reioyced in his imprisoment for that there were some euen in Neros court that beganne to geue eare to the Gospell Of the same matter writeth Eusebius that the court of Valerian the Emperour was now become the church of god so he saieth because that some of his familie beleued the truth albeit the Emperour himself was a tyrant Euen in that sense it might haue bene truelie saide that the churche of God was in king Achab his house when wicked Iezabel his wife did most of all persecute Goddes children and when Elias complained that he onelie was left aliue seeing that Obadiah gouernour of Achabs house feared God and fed an hundred Prophetes with the meate whiche came from Iezabels table But for breâ—ities sake I will answeare to youre queâ—ion which seemeth to consist on these two â—ointes First What Church it was which â—onuerted all countries that nowe be Chriâ—ten to the faith of Christe Secondarilie whether the religion or faith of the Protestantes was euer taught to anie nations in steede of true Christianitie Whosoeuer shall diligently peruse the ecclesiasticall histories or the bookes of the auncient Fathers of the churche they shall easily perceaue with what difficultie Christianitie was embraced sith that the name of Christ was so odious to the Emperour of Rome whose Empire was exceeding large thaâ— whosoeuer professed himselfe to be a Christian was tormented moste cruelly vnto death So that it cannot bee proued that manie nations or countries were wholly christened or receiued the gospel of Christ but in secrete manner vntill the time of Constantine the great which was three hundred yeares after Christ or thereabout For before that time whosoeuer sincerelie preached the Gospell hee was forthwith accused of sedicion of preaching heresie and of new strange doctrine They were charged commonly by the Heathen to bee adulterers against kinde Manquellers Killers of children Churchrobbers most wicked most hurtful the enimies of mankinde guiltie of all kinde of wickednesse Enimies against the Goddes against the Emperoures against the lawes against good order against nature it selfe whatsoeuer mischiefe happened the Ethnikes 〈◊〉 impute it alwayes to the Christians The citie of Athens which had beene the â—â—â—taine of all knowledge was become the sinke of most horrible idolatrie Where Pâ—ule preaching Christ the Philosophers â—â—â—e Epicures and Stoikes resisted him 〈◊〉 saide what will this babler say â–ª Others said he semeth to be a setter forth of strange Gods Others saide may we nâ—t know what this new doctrine wherâ—â— thou spekest is in such rage the Ethniks and Infidels continued against the Christians vntill God of his mercie raised vp that worthie Emperour Constantine who aduaunced mightely the Gospell suppresâ—â—â— the enimies thereof and gaue the truth free passage throughout his dominion and â—mpire In his time all nations were called from Idolatrie Gentilitie and Iudaisme so continued manie hundred yeares vntill the Diuel was let loose and superstiâ—on inuaded the churche so that albeit â—e name of Christianitie remained afterâ—arde vnder the Popes gouernement yet Christes religion was abolished and abanâ—oned It is faith in Iesus Christe and â—he profession of true religion whiche maketh a Christian and not the outward name and therefore suche as were falle away from Christ his Gospell vnto the inuentions of man or suche as were coÌ„uerte onelie in name not being instructed in trâ— doctrine were no more Christians then the shadowe of a man is a man orâ— picture the thing which it doth represenâ— so that it was Nomen sinere Christian iâ— name and not in deede By the Turke aâ— so both the name and profession of a Christian was altogether vanquished Thuâ— much for
we faithfully râ—ceiuing the visible and externall signes according to Christ his institution in remembraunce of his death and passion spirituaâ—ly doe feed vpon the body of Christ aâ—â— receiue the fruites of his death euen remission of our sinnes Other sacramentes we haue no warrant for in the worde of god These sacramentes were onely vsed by Christ and his Apostles and by all their true successours The sacramentes in the olde Testament vnto which anie promise was annexed were these two onely that is circumcision and the Passouer which doe rightly and aptly represent 〈◊〉 two sacramentes set forth in the newe â—â—â—ament as Baptisme and the Lordes â—â—â—er which haue bene vsed alwaies â—â—â—e true Church euer since Christ and â—â—â—ued of the auncient Fathers as the onely knowne sacramentes appoynted by â—â—â—rist So Augustine affirmeth That 〈◊〉 Lord the Apostles deliuered vnto â—â—â—ewe sacraments in steede of manie 〈◊〉 the same to be most easie in doing â—â—â—st reuerend in vnderstandinge and in â—â—â—eruation most pure to wit the sacrameÌ„ts of Baptisme the celebratioÌ„ of thâ— sacrament of the body and blood of ouâ— Lorde Likewise another sayth The sacramentes of Christ in the catholikâ— Church are Baptisme and the bodâ— and bloude of our Lorde Which sacramentes also and all the principle poynte of our true religion Constantine the Christian and godly Emperour and alâ— his noble successours mightely defended and set forth the same The same Constantine was christened not by the Pope buâ— by Eusebius Bishop of Nicomedia noâ— in a corner but in the presence of many other not popishe but Christian Bishopes Hee ouercame Licinium his sisters husbande who persecuted the Christians The same Constantine summoned a councell at Nice against that blasphemous heritike Arrius And as the historie saith the Emperour before named wrote vnto all the rulers of the Churches that they shoulde be at Nice by a day to the Bishop of the Apostolicke sea to Macarius Bishope of Hierusalem and to Iulius the bishope of Rome In that flourishing time liued sundry godly writers whose bookes nowe extant doe shewe that they embracced the same faith and religion which we at this day do professe touching the Sacramentes iustification by faith onely inuocation to God alone saluation onely by Christ and all other chiefe poyntes of doctrine whose workes if your Romish Church had kept inuiolable and had not corrupted as you did in like manner with the Canonicall books of the Bible you might haue learned a difference betwixt trueth and errour And if you would yet hearken to the doctrine which they doe deliuer they will teach you that your Romish church is a cage of vncleane birdes and that your religion is mingled with all heresies though you charge others with the same fault and that you haue no true discipline but rather crueltie no principall pastor sauing Antichrist no officers but Blood-suckers and no Churche in deede but the Sinagogue of Sathan that cruell mother whiche will needes haue the Childe to be cutte in peeces which spareth no Sexe or kinde no Infant though it bee in the mothers belly no hoare heade nor aged person finally your church hath no truth but falshood and iâ— wholly imbamed with the heresies of aâ— ages You take parte with the Iewes anâ— Pagans you care not with whome yoâ— shake handes so it be not with Christ or his holy Gospell vnto which you doo beare â— deadly hate And yet you stand vpon youâ— reputation and would haue men to beleeuâ— you whatsoeuer you speake Whereas you call our Church A contemptible vnknowne close and secret company at thiâ— day the Lord be thanked the greater partâ— of Europe besides the countries I spakâ— of before doo ioyne together with vs iâ— one truth of doctrine I would haue yoâ— to prooue by the worde of God for youâ— wordes bee no warrant to auenturâ— our soules vppon your Romish Church to bee the auncient and true Catholike Church and to professe the same faith and doctrine truely which Christ his Apostles left behinde them and that which was in the time of those godly Emperours of Rome and a long tyme after or that Christ did promise to leaue such a Church as should haue onâ— generall and chiefe Pastor to sit in iudgement to punish offendors and to call a generall councell to try the truth or else we cannot ioyne with you against God and against his sonne Christ For we acknowledge no other principall Pastor but Christ Iesus whom the heauens must conteine vntill the time that all thinges be restored which God hath spokeÌ„ by the mouth of al his holy prophets since the world began who neuerthelesse is euer present with his Church Papist 7 AGaine I require of the Protestant to declare by good histories or by reasonable likelyhod when the true church as they account theirs to be decaied or in what yeare the religion of the Papistes came in and preuailed Whether all their true Church was so soundly sleeping that none would preach against it euen at the tyâ—e when it first entred Whether all nations sodeinly and in one yeare were mooued vnto the doctrine of the Papistes no one man of all their true â—hurch either preaching teaching wriâ—â—â—g nor attempting any thing against it â— making mention of it Whether all â—â—â—kes of seruice were altered Whether 〈◊〉 a moment the masse was sayed in steede of their Apostolike communion Whether sodenly men began to pray for soules departed sodenly required the helpe of Saintes in heauen sodeinly the tongue of common praier was altered Tell me in what yeare of our Lorde vnder what Emperour vnder what Pope vppon what occasion this merueilous mutation was made by whome all these thinges were wrought who preached against it what storie maketh mention of it who of al your Pastoures preached against it Was Goddes Churche so voyde of the spirite of truth and strength that euen then when it most flourished it had none that durste open his mouth agaynst suche corruption of religion at the firste entering in of it and when it mighte soone haue beene repressed If it coulde not haue bene stayde tell me in what yeare of our Lorde this mutation was made and who of the true Preachers withstode our doctrine and yf wee note you not by the names euerye one of your captaines and the seuerall errours whiche they taught and the time and yeare when they rose against the receiued truth and the councels wherein they were orderly condemned If I say this canne bee doone on your side towards vs and wee do it not for improofe of your Church and religion I recante And for that purpose because the gouernement of the Bishoppes of Rome is moste misliked of them And yet moste notoriously knowne by euery Historie let them note the Pope that first brake of the course of his forefathers beliefe and Regiment in anie Articles of faith or necessarie Christian vsage And I recant Answeare 7. MY meaning is not to
they mighte bee permitted to haue still the Gospels the Epistles and the Creede in their vulgare tongue iâ— which peticion they affirmed that in the Sclauon language it had beene vsed of old in the Church and likewise in their owne kingdome Charles the great called fiue councels namely at Mentze Rome Remes Cabilon and Arelate also decreed that onely the canonicall bookes of the Scripture shoulde be reade in the Church and none other as it was decreed long before in the councell holden at Carthage He â—ame one of them in the whole Church eiâ—her erected for your faith Church and serâ—ice or not prepared for all sortes for cathoâ—ke practises proue to me that it was done â—or any other seruice and religion then ours â—r that they be monuments of any other faith â—r church then that common knowne cathoâ—cke church And I recant Answeare 9. WHereas you demaund What furniture our Congregation euer â—ad c. I must needes tell you that either â—he hauing of such furniture or the want â—hereof are but weake feble argumentes â— proue the true Church of God by In â—utwarde pompe in superfluous ornaâ—ents in vnnecessarie toyes in vaine decâ—ing of your Churches with gold and silâ—er and other precious and costly attire in â—nprofitable rites in furnishinge your â—mples with abhominable idols in pleaâ—ng the eare in delightinge the eye in â—uginge in roaring in toying in trifâ—ng in nodding in becking in ducking â— all such heathenishe shewes and sensles significations wee thinke your Romishâ— Church excelled all idolatrous Ethnicks before and therefore in such superstitiouâ— trifles wee will not compare with you but willingly geue vnto you the preheminence because they be not signes of true religion but badges of Antichriste and furniture to deck the whore of Rome withall For all such kind of trumperie be her very markes As these was none of these toyes in the primitiue Churche neither in anie true reformed Churche sithence that â—â—ine â–ª so there was no Churches vntill the time of Constantine the great who builded churches and moued others to doe the like for the people of God to repaire vnto for to heare the worde of God truly preached to receiue the Sacramentes faithfully ministred according to Christes institution for the same vse and purpose we haue builded Churches and doe continually repaire and reedifie suche as be decayed and â—uâ—nous But vnto the time of Constantine the Christians were violentely and extremelie put to death and persecuted of tyrantes hauing no publike places to resorte vnto but priuately assembled themselues sometimes in dwelling houses sometimes in hollowe caues and dennes â—or feare of the cruel bloudie torments Laurentius Valla saith that in times past before the raigne of Constantine the greate the Christians had no temples but secrete and close places holie little houses but no great and gorgeous buildinges chappelles no Churches oratories within priuate walles no publike and open Churches For your chalices I will onelie vse the saying of Pope Boniface In time past saith he golden Byshoppes vsed woodden chalices but now wodden Byshopps vse golden chalices In like manner in Constantine his time there were no altars of lime stone but communion tables of wood and a long time after as it may easilie be proued by auncient writers Athanasius writeth That the ArriaÌ„ Heretikes in their furie and their rage did carrie foorth and burne the seates the pulpettes the wodden table and boorde and suche other thinges as they coulde gett out of Christian Churches S. Augustine writeth the same of the Donatistes Concerning your vestimentes your catholike practises and all your trumperies and beggerly Ceremonies for which you haue no warrant in Gods booke we way not one rushe Wee hould vs contented with that which Christ our sauior his Apostles and other catholik godly Fathers vsed Did not our sauiour Christ I pray you minister his last supper vnto his Apostles at the table without any further ceremonie euen as the Apostles all true Christians haue done euer more â–ª whose example the Lord grauÌ„t vs to folow Papist 10 I Aske of them whether the Lutherans Zwinglians Illirians Caluinists Confessionists Zwingfeldians Anabaptists and such like be all of one church And if either they can proue vnto me that these being of such diuersitie in faith and religion make one church or that eche of these sectes may giue saluation to their folowers being so disagreable one with the other in high points of our religion or that I should beleeue all these rather then the catholike church or one of these more then an other all makinge such a bould chaleÌ„ge for the truth Gospel Let the protestants of all these conferr together shew me of these things and with all amoÌ„g them selues agree to what sort of these sectes they would haue me I recant Answeare 10 I Do merueile greatly that you impute vnto our religion the heresies of the Anabaptists Swingfeldians seing that wee doe not in our daily sermons inueigh against their blasphemous errours but also haue written sundry bookes to confute the the same You doe aske a verie hard difficult questioÌ„ which you do vtter either for want of wit or lacke of knowledge to wit Whether Caluin c. were of one Churche whether they gaue saluatioÌ„ to their followers It is not in man precisely to define who is of Gods Church for that they only be of Gods inuisible church Whome God hath elected vnto saluation in his sonne Christ before the fouÌ„datioÌ„ of the world was layd God only doth knowe who are his But it may be that you vnderstand it of the visible church then I will aunswere you accordingly that we are certainly persuaded that they were Gods children and that they ended their life and closed vp their eyes in the true faith of Christe doe rest now in Gods Kingdom Where you seeme to charg them with manifold scismes diuersitie of iudgmentes the truth is that they agreed in all points with the scriptures sauing that Luther in the real presence dissented from the rest which heresie as I haue noted before he receiued of your church of Rome I would not haue you to thinke that we ground our faith and religion or repose any part of our saluation vpon any particular Church or Councel or vpon any mortall man as you do We receiue mens iudgments and writings as they are men and so may erre And so the godly Fathers in times past were reputed and taken S Augustine hath these woordes Wee ought not sayth he to accept the disputations writings of any one be they neuer so Catholik and prayse worthie as we do receiue the canonicall scriptures but that sauinge their reuerence due vnto them we may well finde fault with or reiect some thinges in their writinges if it happen we finde they haue otherwise thought then the truth may beare them so am I in
â—e Lord we will not heare them of thee â—ut we wil doo whatsoeuer thing goeth â—orth of our owne mouth as to burne â—ncense vnto the Queene of heauen and â—o poure our drinke offerings vnto her as we haue doone both we and our fathers our kinges and our princes in the â—itie of Iuda in the streetes of Hierusalem Whereas in deede they woorshipped sacrificed to the Sonne Moone and Starres and committed grosse Idolatrie against god Euen as you haue learned by that idolatrous people and grounded I thinke vppon this place to call the Virgin Mary Queene of heauen and to sing Salue Regina and againe Regina coeli laetare Reioyce O Queene of heauen And euen from this same time wherein Ieremie liued and for the most parte vntill the time of our Sauiour there were false Prophets and men of greate learning which preached idolatrie in steed of Gods lawe yet imagined that they serued God shal we say that these were of Gods church because their religion continued so long a time woulde that excuse them or the Pharisees in pleading that they were the true successors of Moses the children of Abraham and that they taught the Lawe of God when as in deede they had corrupted the Lawe Euen so albeit you boaste neuer so much of succession or that your Church hath continued thus manie hundreâ— or thus many thousand yeeres or that your Churche is the knowne Catholike Church if that you be not able to prooue by the woord of God that your Church is the true Church and the religion and doctrine of your Church is fully and wholy in euery point grounded vppon the Gospell of Christ which you shall neuer be able to doo then you boaste and bragge in vayne The Turke himselfe by this argument of succession and continuance may approue the Alcaron and religion of Mahomet and this to be as true a Churche as yours This reason might the Aegyptians the Persians the Romanes and all Esawes broode haue alleadged for themselues So that to ende this matter it is neither the title or name of a Churche neither the succession of Officers or the continuance of the same or the aucthoritie of anie man that maketh the difference betwixte the true and false Churche but onelie the true worde of God which discetneth them Papist 14 MOreouer let anie Protestant shewe how that can be the piller of truth whiche durst not for a thousande yeares together claime either the preaching of Gods worde or ministring the Sacramentes or woulde vtter her selfe against falshood and superstition Let any man shew that all the giftes of the Spirite and functions of the holie Ghoste haue been taken from her for a thousande yeares together and onely practised for the peoples vse by the adulterous Churche Let it bee declared how the gates of bell haue not preuailed and Christes woordes promise and warrant for her hath not bene voyde and frustrate of a bastarde churche exercising perpetuall idolatrie as they say hath spoyled the true churche of all holie actions and of the whole gouernement and of the whole name of Christianity almost euer since Christes time Let me see therefore howe the onely dareling and spouse of Christe shoulde be neglected so long of him so long let the Aduersarie shewe that the Churche should euer by superstition and falshood committ adulterie or deserue to be deuorced from him or that Christ shoulde euer want his spouse in earth or that he shoulde be either a heade without a bodie or of such an vnknowen and small bodie or that Christ his onelâ—e kingdome should become so contemptable or that his spouse in earth shoulde euer lacke the singuler prerogatiue of Gods spirit Shewe me these things and I recant Answeare 14. COncerning the principal matter comprised in this your demaunde it is sufficientlie answeared before howe that all the Christians in Greece and Asia haue euer refused to agree with your Churche in faith and doctrine that God hath raised vp from time to time since your Churche declined from the true and Apostolike faith some which haue inueighed against your superstitious traditions euen as it is recorded by a learned writer who affirmeth That there hath bene some in euerie age which haue honored and embraced the Gospell but that within the space of these foure hundred yeares the zeale therof hath decaied in manie men And whereas you aske Howe the holie Ghost coulde be kepte so long from this close â—hurche how the gates of hell haue not preâ—ayled against it howe Christes dearling â—ouldâ— be neglected howe Christe shoulde â—e head of suche a Churche as hath either â—o bodie at all or else a very small and â—tle bodie â–ª I answeare that albeit to your â—do â—meaâ— the Churche of God whiche â—s the congregation of the faithful be conâ—mptible and despised yet neuerthelesse â— God 's eyes it is precious The holie Ghost commeth not in visiâ—le forme vnto the children of God as the Owle or Howlet presented himselfe in the â—ytime and stared your Pope Iohn in â—e face when he and his Cleargie were â—t in a general Councell holden at Rome by which occasion the Councel was dissolâ—ed â–ª but he is the comforter which shall â—wayes remaine with the church of God â—hich dwelleth with suche as be faithful â—hich guydeth and ruleth their mindes â—hich doth saÌ„ctifie them inwardly whiche â—pirite doeth breathe his graces where â—e listeth and when he pleaseth And thereâ—ore it is a great fault in you to vtter suche â—ashe iudgement and to propounde suche vayne questions or rather as you seeme to define where Gods spirite remayneth as though you had him in a string or that he should be at your becke and appointment The wordes of Christ be true That Hell gates which is the power of Sathan Antichrist which standeth in crafte and violence shall not preuaile against the Churche of God. For you may burne their bodies racke them in peeces teare them in sunder with wilde Horses boyle them in cauldrons roaste them on spittes broyle them vppon gridyorns stabbe and prodde them in with bodkins or penkniues throwe them vnto wilde beastes or other waies to torment them as your Church oâ— Rome hath vsed the children of God euen this close Churche whiche you so often do skoffe at Neuerthelesse their names are written in the booke of life When yoâ— haue consumed the bodie you haue no further power you haue done all that you caâ— for Christes Churche is Christes darling in deede whom he wil not forsake because he is alwayes faithfull and sure in his promises The mouth of God hath promised them helpe whiche cannot lie Christe iâ— deede is the true andonelie heade of his Churche whiche be the faithfull children â—f God truely called the temple of God â—ecause that GOD is resident in them by â—is holie spirite and these faithfull are the â—tones of the new Ierusalem which is the â—niuersall Churche of God of
whatsoeuer God him selfe can doo For in name you giue him no lesse prerogatiue Dominus Deus noster Papa Our Lord God the Pope We say that wee are iustified freely by Gods speciall grace and mercie offered in Christ and that faith is the instrument to apprehend this our iustification and so saith the Apostle Ye are saued by grace and that through faith not of our selues it is the gift of god not of workes least any man should reioyce And againe Abraham beleeued God and it was couÌ„ted to him for righteousnesse You say that we are iustified by our owne works yea and that we haue workes more then wee neede which you call woorkes of supererogation or superfluous woorkes We say that we must confesse our sinnes onely vnto God and so saith Dauid I will confesse euen against mine owne selfe mine vnrighteousnesse vnto the Lorde You say That wee muste confesse our sinnes to the prieste and receiue absolution at his handes And this you call Auricular confession We say that the people of God be they neuer so simple or vnlearned ought to haue the vse of the scriptures of GOD in their knowne tongue and both heare them and reade them So Christ biddeth al men To search the scriptures Dauid sayeth That they are a light to our feete Saint Paule saith That whatsoeuer thinges are written they be written for our learnin and eugery scripture sent from God is profitable to teach to instructe to reprooue and to exhort that the man of God may be perfect prepared to euery good woorke He saith further Let the woord of God dwell in you aboundantly Wherevppon Saint Hierome noteth That euen the Leye peoshoulde reade the Scriptures and teache and admonish one an other Your church saieth That the vnlearned people ought not to haue the Scriptures in their vulgar toung that they are hard and full of difficulties We say that no Images are to bee brought into the Temple of God or to bee woorshipped God hath forbidden it by expresse commaundementes â—oth the making and the woorshipping God curseth â—oth the maker thereof the toole that â—eth it and him also that worshippeth â—t Christ saith Thou shalt woorship the â—ord thy God and him onely shalt thou â—erue The Apostle saith that Idolaters â—all haue no inheritance with Christ and â—ith God. The Angell of God refuseth â— be woorshipped and saith moreouer â—oorship God. You say that images are to bee made at they oughte to bee placed in the temâ—es that they are to bee worshipped and that they are the Laie mens bookes yea and that not onely images of Saints departed but also of Christe and of GOD himselfe whiche image of God you set foorth in the similitude of an old aged man hauing a loÌ„g gray beard and a hoare head albeit God hath geuen a straighte charge to the contrarie And Christe saith that no man hath seene God at anie time but the onely begotten sonne of God. Saint Augustine saith That it is abhominable to set anie suche picture in the Churches of Christians If a man had come into anie of your Churches in times past and had vsed your images as Epiphanius a godlie writer did vse the like long sithens you woulde haue cursed him with bell booke and candell and woulde haue burned him to ashes in the ende I will repeate the wordes conteined in an Epistle which Epiphanius did write vnto the Byshoppe of Hierusalem whiche be these I founde saith he a vaile hanging at the entrie of the Churche stained and painted and hauing the Image as it were of Christe or of some Saint for whose picture it was in deede I do not remember Therefore when I sawe the image of a man to hang in the Churche of Christe contrarie to the commaundement of the Scriptures I toare it in sonder and gaue councell to the wardens of the Churche that they should winde and burie some poore bodie in it c. â— beseech you charge the Priestes of that place that they commaunde that suche â—ailes as be contrarie to our religion be â—o more hanged vp in the Churche of Christe it behoueth your reuerence to â—aue care hereof that this superstition â—nmeete for the Church of Christ and â—nmeete for the people which be committed vnto you be remoued I might â—ande long in displaying and manifesting â—he erroures superstitious trifles of your Churche of Rome not onelie in secrete â—ractises and deuises moste expressely aâ—ainst God and his truth but also euen in matters of faith and in the principles of â—rue religion how farre you disagree from Christe and his Gospell and from all â—odlie writers of auncient time But these â—ay serue for a taste sauing that I will â—peake one worde of your Popes greate â—hallenge We say that all men of what calling soeuer they bee oughte to yeeld their obedience vnto suche as are in aucthoritie Christ our Sauiour paied tribute he sayed Giue vnto Caesar that whiche is due vnto Caesar Saint Paule sayeth Let euery soule be subiect vnto the higher powers for there is no power but of GOD whosoeuer therefore resisteth the power resisteth th' ordinauÌ„ce of god Saint Chrisostome vpon these wordes saieth Although thou be an Apostle although thou be an Euangelist although thou be a Prophete or whosoeuer thou arte for this subiection doth not ouerthrowe godlinesse and he doeth not say simplie let him obey but let him be subiect And Theophilacte writing vpon the same place sayeth That the Apostle teacheth al men whether he be a priest or Monke or Apostle that he be subiect vnto Princes Your Churche doeth challenge this aucthoritie from Peter to be aboue Kinges and Emperoures which also you say Peter receiued from Christe For these be the verie words of Pope Nicholas Christ saieth he hath giuen to blessed Peter the righte as well of the â—orldly as also of the heauenly Emâ—yre Wherevpon you grounde these arâ—ments The Sonne is higher and greaâ—r then the Moone Therefore the â—ope is higher and greater then the â—mperour The soule is aboue the boâ—e therefore the pope is aboue the â—mperour Thus you take vpon you not â—elie to haue the superioritie ouer Emâ—erours but also to put them forth of their â—ates and to remoue the Empire at your â—easure And thus did Pope Adrian write â—to Frederike the Emperour My seate â—saith he is in the citie of Rome The â—mperoures seate is at Acon in Arden which is a Forest in Fraunce Whatsoâ—uer the Emperour hath hee hath it of â—s as pope Zacharias traÌ„slated the Emâ—ire from Graecia into Germany So â—ay we againe translate the same from â—e Germanes to the Greekes Behold â— is in our power to bestowe the Emâ—ire vpon whom we liste But note how â—he writinges of Saint Peter doe agree â—ith this proud popish stile Submit your â—elues saith Peter vnto all manner orâ—inaunces of man for the Lords sake Whether it be vnto
the king as vnto the chiefe And to conclude he saieth Honour all men Loue brotherly felowship feare God honoure the king Markâ— also howe Tertullian a godlie Father agreeth with the Apostle against your supâ—rioritie We honour saith he the Emperoures maiestie as a man next vnto GOD for so is the Emperour greateâ— then all men while he is lesse then onelie the true God. Of this minde waâ— Pope Gregory as hee sheweth in an Epistle which he writeth vnto Mauritiuâ— the Emperour Beholde saith he Thuâ— will Christe answeare you by me beinâ— both his and your most humble seruantâ— I haue committed my priests into youâ— handes as for my parte I beyng subiect vnto your Maiesties commaundâ—ment haue caused your order to be senâ— throughout diuerse parts of the world â–ª So that by the premisses it plainelâ— appeareth what dangerous errours and corrupt doctrine moste repugnant to Christe your Churche of Rome hath taught the people of God. Papist 18 LET anie Protestante in the whole worlde prooue vnto me that their Churche coulde rightly be called Catholike which was so particular that â— man aliue coulde name a place where â—y such churche was or that it might bee â—lled holie which had neither Baptisme â—r anie other sacrament to sanctifie anie â— her felowes withall or that it coulde bee â—e which as it grewe vp in the worlde was â—uided into so manie sundrie sectes â–ª or that â— might be called Apostolike which coulde â—uer make an accompt by orderly successiâ— from anie apostolike man or that the seâ—ete base and disordered congregation was â—er of that maiestie that it might require â—e obedience of all nations or that it was â—er able to gather generall councels or exâ—cise discipline vpon offendours or that â—hese titles proper by scripture and doctours â— the true church could euer be chaleÌ„ged by â—ght to their congregation I meane these â—itles following Corpus Christi the bodie of Christ Sponsa Christi the spouse of Christ â—nicè dilecta Christo the dearely beloued of Christ Amica Christi Christes louer Doâ—us dei Gods house Columba speciosa the beautifull Doue Columna veritatis thâ— piller of truth Ciuitas Dei the citie of Godâ— Ciuitas super montem posita a Citie set vpoâ— a hill Hortus conclusus a close garden Fons signatus a fountaine sealed vp Sponsa agnt The spouse of the Lambe Answeare 18 YOu doe vâ—ge often this Catholike Church and doe seme as of right to challenge iâ— to be your Churche of Rome but how vntruely I haue partely touched before This worde Catholike doth signifie vniuersall as in deede the true church of God is vniuersally spread and scattered abroade in all coastes and countries of the worlde and so doe diâ—erse good writers speake of it Saint Augustine sayeth That the catholike Churche is dispearsed throughout the whole earth And iâ— another place hee sayeth That the Church is called Catholike because she is vniuersally perfect and halteth in nothing and is poured throughout the whole worlde An other saith That the vniuersall Churche is Hierusalem the citie of the liuing God which comprehendeth the congregation of the electe and chosen written in heauen An other sayeth That the churche is truely called catholike which is separated by sincere pure and vnspotted communion or felowship from all vnfaithful persons and from their successours and companions These thinges of duetie appertaine vnto the Churche First that it is vniuersall and therefore as I haue sayde before it is not limited eyther to place time or person Secondarily that it is of â—he elect whome God in his secrete and â—rcane knowledge hath sealed vnto life eâ—erlasting Thirdly that it hath no felowâ—hippe with the vnfaithfull and with such â—s will not beleeue the trueth Neuerâ—helesse in the visible churche there be of â—ll sortes mixte together both good and â—adde beleeuers and hypocrites darâ—ell and pure wheate But to answeare â—our interrogation You woulde knowe Howe the Protestantes churche can be calâ—d the true Catholike and Apostolike â—hurche And I woulde demaund the like â—f you howe your Churche of Rome can â— knowne to be the true churche of god â—ruly there is an vnfallible rule set down readie howe the true Churche of God may be knowne and howe this controuersie may easily be decided For if we will beleeue the holie Apostle of God he telleth the Ephesians That they are no more straungers and Forrenners but citizens with the sainctes and of the howshould of God and are built vppon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophetes Iesus Christ himselfe being the chiefe corner stone in whome all the building coupled together groweth to an holy temple in the Lorde So that you may see that the true Church of God is discerned and knowen by the Scriptures The true sheepe doe heare the voice of Christ and will not heare a stranger And so the godly father Augustine saith That in the scriptures wee learneâ— Christ in the Scriptures wee learne the Churche Wherefore doe wee not then reteine in them both Christe and his Church And writing against the Donatists being notorious heretikes he saith Betwixt vs and you this cometh in question where the church is what shall wee doe nowe in this matter â–ª Shall wee seeke for the church in our owne words or in the words of her heade which is our Lorde Iesus Christ I thinke that wee ought to seeke it rather in his woords who is the truth and doth best of all knowe his owne body So Chrisostome saith That since the time that Heresies inuaded the church there can bee no triall of true Christianitie neither any other refuge of Christians which woulde know the true faith but onely the scriptures of God and therefore he which will know the true Church of God howe shall he know it but onely by the Scriptures Thus it appeareth that the true Church of God dooth defend her selfe onely by the Scriptures and woord of God which your Church of Rome doeth vtterly refuse for that you boldly affirme that the Scriptures haue not their strength neither receiue their authoritie from god But from the Church of Rome Yea moreouer you say That the holy Church of Rome hath power by a singular priuiledge graunted vnto her to open and to shut vp the gates of the Kingdome of heauen from whom shee listeth and that this power of binding and loosing is no lesse in your church of Rome then it is in Christ But you will say that I doe sclaunder you in saying That you affirme the Scriptures of God to haue their strength and authoritie from the church of Rome Truly one of your owne writers hath these wordes Who soeuer leaneth not sayth he to the doctrine of the Romaine church and to the authoritie of the Bishop of Rome as vnto the vnfallible rule of God of which Doctrine the holy Scripture taketh her force and authoritie he is an heretike He saith further That
the authoritie of the Romaine church and of the Bishop of Rome is greater then the authoritie of Gods word An other saith That this is the iudgment of all them that thinke lightly that ground the authhoritie and vnderstanding of the Scriptures in the allowance of the Church and not conrariwise â—lay the foundation of the church in the authoritie of the scriptures There be no coÌ„maundemeÌ„ts of Christ but such only as bee taken so and holden by the Church Therefore the scriptures followe the Church but contrariewise the Church followeth not the Scriptures An other saith That the Apostles haue written certaine things not that their said writings should rule our faith or religion but rather that they should bee vnder and be ruled by our faith the scriptures are dumbe iudges the scriptures are like a nose of waxe I might alledge many authorities out of your owne writers which go about to extoll your church of Rome aboue God and his holy worde â—ut these may perswade all men which be not wilfully blinded how arrogantly and Luciferlike you do preferre your Church both contrarie to the manifest expresse woorde of God and also to the opinion iudgement of the Godly learned fathers whose authorities I haue cited But let the indifferent reader iudge whether our church which groundeth her selfe wholy onely vpon the heauenly Scriptures and submitteth her selfe to the spirit of God as the true interpreter of the same hearkeneth onely vnto the voyce of her Pastor Christ and acknowlegeth him onely to bee her heade according as we are taught by the scriptures be the true Church of God the Catholik Apostolike church or your church of Rome which innketh her selfe equal with god vsurpeth authoritie aboue his most holy woord will not haue Christ but the Pope her heade which wil be iudge in all causes whether Christ will or no which mainteineth no not in one point the Apostolike doctrine and faith but doeth persecute euen vnto death the true professors of the same Whereas you doo aske Howe our Church can be one For that as you say it is deuided into so many sectes I haue shewed before that we doo not disagree now at this day in matters of faith and true religion as your Church of Rome dooth in matters of great weight and importance It hath beene a vulgar and common prouerbe of long time vsed that the Diuell will haue his Chappell nearâ— Gods Church Among the olde Prophets was some one Balaam or other In the small number which accompanied our Sauiour Christ was one Iudas many carnal Capernaites which sought rather their belly then the aduauncement of Gods truth which pretended a zeale and followed Christ yet depended vppon olde customes and ceremoniall traditions and helde other fond opinions Among the true Apostles were false Apostles which though not altogether yet in some parte preached either circumcision or iustification by woorkes repugnant to the doctrine of the true Apostles as you doo Our Sauiour truely prophesied That there shoulde arise false Christes and false Prophets Saint Paule saith yet in an other sence There must be heresies eueÌ„ among you that they which are approoued among you might bee knowne By which he noteth that Gods Church is not onely subiect to striffe and dissention as touching orders and maners but also to heresies as touching doctrine We doo not stand so stifely vppon our reputation but doe confesse that as we are men so we may erre But wee trye our iudgementes and opinions by the touchstone of Gods woord not respecting the person but the doctrine which we allow of so farre as the holy scriptures do approoue the same in which is no errour at all We doe not denie but that there may be amongest vs some carnall fleshly Gospellers some Epicures and Athistes some giuen to mainteine vnprofitable and straunge opinions as there are in your Church of Rome The like there were in the Apostles time some which helde of Paule some of Apollo some of Peter yea some which seemed to haue beene of the number of the faithfull because they occupied a place in the Church of whom the Apostle speaketh saying Babes it is the last time and as you haue hearde that Antichrist shall come euen nowe are there many Antichristes whereby we knowe that it is the last time they went out from vs but they were not of vs for if they had bene of vs they would haue continued with vs. It is manifest that in the primitiue church therewere false brethreÌ„ which were cloaked with the name of Christianitie Arrius that damnable heretik the fauourers of his sect which deny Christ to be God bosted theÌ„selues That they only were Catholikes and called others which mainteined the truth against them sometimes Ambrosians and sometimes Athanasians as you doo call vs nowe Lutherans nowe Caluinists nowe Zwinglians Ebion that Heretike who affirmed Christ to be onely man and saith that the obseruation of the Lawe was very necessarie to saluation would needes be called a Christian All other heretikes which were many in the florishing time of the church as appeareth by the stories bragged that they held the true faith that they were the true Church Shal we therfore coÌ„clude say that the Prophets the Apostles the godly Christians and fathers of the primitiue Church were not of the true Church of God for that in their times there were manie sectes which couered them selues with the cloake collour of true religion Saint Paule forseing through Gods spirite what woulde come gaue this watchworde to the Colosians To beware least that anie shoulde goe about to spoyle them through phylosophie and vaine deceit through the traditions of men acording to the rudimeÌ„ts of the world and not after Christ He also forwarneth the Thessalonians that Antichrist the sonne of perdicion shall sitt as God in the temple of God shewing him selfe to be God. It is wonderfull to see howe you are blinded seing you stumble at a strawe and doe leape ouer a bloke You strain at a gnat and doe swallow a Camel You see a moath in another mans eye and perceiue not the beame which is in your owne eye You are most giltie your selues in that which you would haue to be a notorious crime in others For you agree not in the principall poyntes of religion as I haue noted before but in that you demauÌ„d Whether our Churche was euer of that maiestie that it might require the obedience of all nations or gather generall councelles and howe the titles which you set foorth by name can bee applied to our Church I saie that our Church hath and doth enioy such priuiledges and preheminence as is limited vnto hir by the worde of God Neuerthelesse we doe not challenge anie such authoritie to the obedience of all nations vnto our Church but doe pray in the name of Christ vnto the Lorde of Heauen and earth to poure forth the