that the Apostles taught none other faith in steede of true Christiantie but that which we hold as we are readie to proue by the worde of God And at this daye the most parte of Europe is conuerted from Idolatrie heresie and Antichristianitie vnto the same true faith that we mainteine as in England Scotland Ireland France Germany Denmarke Suetia Bohemia Polonia by publike authoritie in Spaigne and Italie a great numbre vnder persecution and tyrannie Also of the Iewes no small numbre are conuerted to our religion since the rising vp of the Gospell in our dayes 3 Or any Church but the common Catholike Church to haue don that and I recant BEcause you meane by the common Catholike not the true Catholike but the popish church First I denie that euer the popish church conuerted any people to the true faith Secondly I denie that the popish church hath conuerted all nations to the profession of Christ For it is shewed before that the false Apostles and Arians conuerted some nations to the profession of Christes name but yet to false religion And it is also manifest by histories that the Grecians whome the papistes counte no parte of their church but schismatikes conuerted the Moscouites first of all vnto the profession of the name of Christ which yet continue in their religion being neither the true faith nor yet popish religion As for the popish church as it is certeine that it hath peruerted and corrupted all partes of the Latine or Westerne Church with Idolatry and false religion so it shal be harde for the papistes to proue that it hath conuerted any Nation from Gentility to the popish religion except some partes of Germanie and them by force of armes rather than by preaching and teaching as appeareth by the conuersion of Liuonia Anno Domini 1200. of Prussia Anno Domini 1254. and of Lithuania Anno Domini 1386. wherefore I conclude that seeing I haue shewed that our Church holding the true doctrine of the Apostles is that which conuerted all nations to true religion and that the popish church hath not conuerted any people to true religion nor all people to the profession of the name of Christ this chalenger whosoeuer he be do the recant The second article conteyneth 4. demandes 1 I aske of him what Church it was which hath induced the Christian people through the whole worlde to geue most humble credit in all points to the holy bookes of the Byble I Aunswere it was the Church of Christ and not the Popish church which hath commended the bookes of holy Scripture to be beleued of all true Christians where soeuer they be although it be the office of the holy Ghost to open the hartes of men and to forme them that they may beleue the scripture to be true like as it is the office of the scripture or worde of God to trie and examine whether it be the spirite of God that perswadeth vs to beleue any thing so the spirite beareth witnesse to the worde and the worde to the spirite As for the popish church it coulde not induce the Christian people to geue credit to the scripture in all pointes because she is contrarie to the scripture in many pointes and euen in the cheefest pointes of Christian Religion namely in pointes concerning the glorie of God and the saluation of mankinde geuing the glory of God to dead men and dumbe Images and denying the mercy of God pourchased by the onely sacrifice of Christes death to be the onely cause of mans saluation Finally seeing it is manifest by the aunswere to the first article that the popish church did not conuerte all nations to the profession of the Christian faith it is euident thereby that the popish church did not induce all them that are called Christians to geue credit to the bookes of the holy Bible as this chalenger woulde haue it to be thought 2 VVhat Church hath had the discerning seuering of them from other writinges of all sortes THe Church of Christ hath not an absolute authority to allow or refuse bookes of the scripture but a iudgment to discerne true writinge from counterfaicts the word of God of infallible verity from the writing of men which might erre this iudgement she hath not of her selfe but of the holy Ghost as for the popish Church it can not be said to haue this iudgemēt of discerning the scripture of God from other writings not only because she is so blind that she can not discerne betwene the Canonical bookes of the scripture from the Apocrypha writings as appereth by receauing the bookes of the Machabees Ecclesiasticus c. to be of equall authoritie with the bookes of the Law Psalmes c. but also because she is so presumptuous as to compel men to beleue that Customes and traditions writinges of doctors decrees of Popes and Councells are equall with the authoritie of God his worde yea are of force to alter and change the lawe of God and the institution of Christ set forth vnto vs in the scripture And although she boast that she receaueth all the bookes of scripture yet this proueth no more that she is the Church of Christ than was the churches of the Arrians Donatistes Nouatians Euthychans other heretikes which receiued the Bible as well as the Popish church 3 VVhat Church hath had the custodie of them and most safely hath preserued them for the necessary vse of God his people and from the corruption of aduersaries as well of Iewes as heretikes of all sortes THe prouidence of God hath alwayes preserued the Scripture both from the violence of tyrants from the falshoode of heretikes and hath neuer suffred the true Church to be destitute of the necessarie vse thereof But the popish church hath not kept the scripture for the necessary vse of the people which hath so kept it in an vnknowen tongue that the people coulde haue no vse much lesse the necessary vse thereof wherefore if this be a note of the Catholike Church to kepe the worde of God for the necessarie vse of God his people it is plaine that the popish church is not the Catholike Church which hath kept the scripture so that God his people coulde haue no vse thereof And if the only custodie of the scripture from corruption of heretikes be a sure note of the Church why is not the Greeke Church the Catholike Church which vnto this day hath kept the scripture as safely as the popish church why are not other Estern Churches of Asia which neuer acknowledged the Pope or popish religion true Churches which likewise haue preserued the scripture as we haue seen of late that the newe Testament is printed in the Syrian tongue at themperours charges for the encrease of Christian faith among them And finally why are not the Iewes the Catholike Church which haue kept the old Testament in Hebrue more faithfully than euer the Papistes And because they boast of safe preseruing of the scriptures
of men that continue in godly vnity yet doth it most aptly agree vnto our Church which holdeth one vnity of doctrine faith and religion of Christ But the Popish church how so euer it bragge of vnity because their agreement is not in verity can not be that cohabitation of brethren which the Psalmist doth so highely commende 14 Mons Dei mons pinguis THe hill which Dauid so extolleth Psal. 68. is the mount Zyon which though it be small yet it excelleth the high and frutefull hill of Basan because God had chosen it to place his tabernacle therupon euen so the church of Christ though it surmount not ouer kingdomes in worldly dignities and commodities yet to such as Dauid was the litle hill of Zyon is more worth than all the seuen hilles of Rome 15 Sacra anchora IN all the Scripture the Church is not compared to an holy Anchore but in the sixt to the Hebrues Fayth in God his promises is compared vnto a sure stedfast Anchore of our soules vpon which Faith seeing our Church is builded we may truely say that in our Church only is this sure anchore which the popish church doth so much despise that she counted it heresie for vs to flie vnto Fayth tanquans ad sacram anchoram that is As to our only sure refuge 16 Vinea Domini THe Vineyard of the Lorde is of his owne plantinge dressed tilled by such husbandmen as he hath placed in it which will yeelde him frute in time conuenient This agreeth aptly vnto our Church which alloweth no plant but such as is planted by our heauenly Father This Vineyarde cā not the popish church be compted which plucketh vppe the vines planted by God and in the steede of them setteth thornes and thistles after the deuises of men 17 Terra viuentium THe land of the lyuing in scripture signifieth this present life as I trusted to see the goodnesse of the Lorde in the lande of the lyuing that is Although I was neare death yet I beleued that God woulde preserue me in this life Psal. 27. And vnto Doeg he sayeth Psal. 52. God shall destroy thy roote out of the lande of the lyuing that is Out of this life Also Ezechias in his psalme Esay 38. I shall not see the Lorde euen the Lorde in the lande of the lyuing that is I shall no more praise God in his temple here in this life And when you shall bring forth a place of scripture where it is proprely applied vnto the church it shal be an easie matter to proue that we onely are the liuely members of Christ which abide in his body receuing all benefites of life from him which is our heade And easie it wil be to proue that you are the lande of the deade men which are strangers from the life of God Ephes 4. which are aliue in this worlde and not deade vnto Christ 18 Regina in vestitu deaurato circundata varietatibus ALthough this saying alleaged out of the 45. Psalme be figuratiuely ment of the church as it is literaly spoken of Pharaos doughter whom Solomon maried yet being alleaged not after the trueth of the Hebrue but after the error of the olde translation I will not interprete it contrarie to my conscience as S. Ieronym fayeth according to that corrupt version but according to the trueth of the text which is The Queene in a garment of golde of Ophir As for compassing with varieties it is not in the text By this figure the spirituall magnificence of the church of Christ gathered of the Gentiles is set forth vnto vs and therefore let not the Papistes dreame that material golde is the ornament of Christ his spouse but as it is before sayed of the whore of Babylon 19 Ecclesia magna 20 Populus grauis DAuid in the 35. Psalme promiseth that he will geue thankes vnto God after his deliuerance in a great companie and solemne assemblie of people such as was wont to come together at the holy meetings in the Sanctuarie This is the true and the simple meaning of this text And it were to violent an interpretation to inforce it to be a prophesie of the church of Christ although it be true that the church is a great congregation and a mighty people yet remembring therewith that in comparizon of all the worlde it is as Christ him selfe calleth it A litle Flocke 21 Archa Noe. IN the Arch of Noe as S. Peter testifieth 1. Pet. 3. but a fewe namely 8. soules were saued in the water euen as many as were obedient vnto the voice of God the whole worlde beside were drowned Wherefore how fewe soeuer we be As the Papistes say we are not many so long as we obey the voice of God we doubt not but we shal be saued in the Arch. And the Papistes with all their vniuersality and multitude despising the lawe of God shall perishe with the wicked worlde 22 Tabernaculum altissimi THe old Tabernacle was a figure of the true Church and we know that none shall dwell therein but such as be described in the Psal. 15. Therefore let the Papistes bragge as long as they list of the Tabernacle of the highest yet shall they not dwell there neither shall they rest in his holy hill because they be not indued with such vertues springing of true and a liuely faith As in that Psalme be set forth 23 Ager area Dei. THe church is the feelde and flower of God in his feelde he soweth none but good seede the chaffe shal be purged from his flower The Papistes are some of these tares whome the enuious man hath sowed while men were a sleepe and the chaffe which after it be purged from the corne together with the tares shal be burned in the vnquencheable fire 24 Mater fidelium IErusalem that is from aboue is free which is the mother of vs all which embrace Iesus Christ as our onely Redemer from the bondage and curse of the lawe As for that steppe mother of Rome which bringeth men into captiuitie through ceremonies and traditions of men Begetteth vnto bondage as Agar did and is become the mother not of the faithfull but of abhominable fornication Apocalip 17. 25 Nutrix Christianorum THe church of Christ is the Nurse of Christiās which bringeth them vp and feedeth them first with milke and afterwarde with stronger meates according as they are able to receue it 1. Cor. 3. Heb. 6. But Rome which feedeth her babes with poyson of mans traditions in steede of the milke of God his word will rather see them famish than they shoulde taste of God his worde maye well be a nurse of Antichristians but neuer did good vnto Christians 26 Ecclesia orthodoxa TRue opinions are confirmed out of the worde of trueth wherefore our church which holdeth no doctrine but such as is tried by the worde of truth most truly may be called the true beleuing church Contrarywise the Popish church which so manifestly dissenteth from the
AN ANSVVER OF A TRVE CHRISTIAN TO THE PROVDE CHALLENGE OF A counterfet Catholike By VVilliam Fulke Doctor in diuinitie Imprinted at London by Thomas Vautrollier dwelling in the Blacke Friers 1577. To the Christian Reader THIS short treatise gentle Reader hath lyen by me neare hand or altogether tenne yeres space vvritten at the request of a godly learned friend of myne in aunsvver to a proud challenge of a Papist against the Protestant VVhich though at the first and many yeares after I determined not to publish supposing the same challeÌ„ge to haue ben priuate or in fevve mens handes yet novv of late that I haue seene it in diuerse godly gentlemens handes to vvhom it hath bene deliuered by Papistes belike to peruert them and of vvhom also I haue bene desired to auÌ„svver it and am further credibly informed that the same is in print esteemed of many ignorant Papistes to be so vnansvverable that although it hath bin protested by gentlemen of great vvorship and credit that they haue seene the auÌ„svvere therof in vvriting yet they vvil not beleue that any man dare set his penne to the paper once to attempte the matter I haue novve thought good to put it in print as it vvas vvritteÌ„ at the first Nothing douting by Gods help but I shall be able to stand to the defence if the Challenger vvill proceede to mainteyne his challenge any longer And vvhereas the same of late hath bene ioyned vvith my confutation of the doctrine of purgatory and yet is desired of many to be set forth in seuerall because the argument is more generall it is thought good to satisfie their desire to spare their exspenses that being resolued in the matter of purgatory doe yet stagger in the challenge of the Church The breuity that I haue vsed as I vnderstand is misliked of some men vvhich vvoulde haue vvished a larger discourse but seeing the Challenger requireth shortnes if this that is vsed be sufficient to satisfie his demaunds or any of them a longer treatise vvere but superfluous If he thinke him selfe not throughly aunsvvered declare the same in all or in part that vvhich is novve omitted shall then God vvilling be supplied In the meane time vse this gentle Reader and fare vvell in the Lorde The faultes of this impression are thus to be amended The first figure signifieth the page the second the line Pag. 3. line 35. Lithuania reade Lithuanda 5.3 vvriting r. vvritinges 10.10 the scripture reade the booke of scripture 13.17 then reade thou and line 19. you reade thou 15. line the laste Tâ—â—erius reade Liberius 19.4 you reade the and line 10. Ca. line 58. reade Carolines 8. and line 19. Mercamas r. Marranias 22.9 fauour reade honor â—3 26 the prince reade the printers 24.1 put out and. 25.9 not for his r. for his 29.10 vnitie of minde r. vnitie of faith minde 30.3 in the places aboue rehearsed in diuerse places of his epistles a. lib. 3. epist. 14. and 15.16 c. 41.30 Rhenes r. Rhemes 49.5 the the r. that the. the 12. r. the Catho c. 52.13 in Brytish reade in the Brytish 63.14 about the articles r. about the chiefest articles 64.20 put out that hilde and the 24. here rea sore 67.21 vvhich can not rea vvhich you can not 68.4 in a name reade in a manner 69.4 prorsus opinemur r. prorsus non opinemur and 34. vniuersally r. vniuersalitie and 36 vvhich you do r. vvhich you do not 70.17 proponeÌ„da r. praeponeÌ„da 22. in a r. in the. 24. vvhen r. vvheÌ„ the. 71.20 vvhere rÄ™a vvere and the 22. to reade in 78.26 that you savv a bastard church r. that you being a bastard church haue 87.34 Commentualls rea Conuentualles 91.32 that he rea then he 92.30 cultiued r. coÌ„tinued 97. â— your reade youres 99.13 there rea therefore 14. vinci reade vâ—icè AN ANSVVER OF A TRVE CHRISTIAN TO A COVNTERFAIT CATHOLIKE The proposition of the Aduersarie CHrist did commit at his departure hence the testimony of that truth for which he died and the conuersion of the Nations to the beleefe in him to the true church of God which then stoode principally and almost onely in the persons of the Apostles and a fewe more that by their preachings and those afterward of their calling the Christian religion might be planted in all Nations beginning at Ierusalem and so proceeding to the coastes and corners of the earth AN ANSVVERE TO THE PROPOSITION I Graunt that our Sauiour Christ at his departure hence commaunded his Apostles as principal members of his Church though not the greatest part of it to preach the doctrine which he confirmed by his death vnto all nations beginning at Ierusalem and so forth according to his saying Goe therefore and teach all Nations baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Sonne and of the holy Ghost Teaching them to obserue all thinges what so euer I haue commaunded you Matth. 28. Whereuppon I chalenge the Papist that if he be able to proue that the doctrine of poperie is all that trueth and nothing but that trueth for which Christ dyed and which he commaunded the Apostles to teach I will acknowledge the popish church to be the Church of Christ The first article conteyneth 3. demandes 1 First I aske of the protestant what Church that was which conuerted all these cuntries that be now Christian to the faith of Christ IF you meane by Christians true Christians and by the faith of Christ the true faith of Christ I answere only the true Church of Christ hath had the worde of God and sacraments as meanes which God vseth to subdue al nations vnto the obedience of the faith as was the primitiue Church of the Apostles which hath continued vnto this daye by succession not of personnes and places but of faith and truth wherefore if the Papist can proue that we holde not the same faith and trueth vnto which the Apostles conuerted the nations we refuse to be called the Church or Congregation of Christ But if by Christians and Christian faith you meane all them that professe the name of Christ in the whole worlde I aunswere that the true Church of Christ did not conuert them all for in Aethiopia there are yet people conuerted by the false apostles which taught circumcision and obseruation of the lawe in which heresie they continue vnto this day and it is manifest by all histories that the nations of the Alanes Gothes and Vandales were first conuerted by the Arrians 2 And let him shew vnto me that euer his Church conuerted any people or lande in the earth from Idolatrie or Gentility or Iudaisme to the true Religion of Christ or that this his fayth was taught to any Nation in steede of true Christianity VVE are members of that Church which conuerted all landes in the earth that are conuerted from Idolatry Gentility Iudaisme or heresie to the true Religion of Christ and we affirme
them that were baptized by you we maye likewise gather that you admit our ministration of sacraments because you doe not rebaptize them that are baptized of vs nor marrie againe those that are married in our Church wheras you compt mariage to be a sacrament so that our accepting of your doings doth no more allow your church than your accepting of our doinges doth allow our Church And as touching the sacrament of Baptisme because you reteyne the Institution in baptizing in the name of the Father the Sonne and the holy Ghost and in asmuch as the sacraments take not their effect of the minister but of God we receiue it as of other heretikes which likewise reteine the Institution Wherefore there is no cause why you shoulde thinke we allow yours to be the true Church thereby So that there is good cause why you shoulde recant The 14. article hath 5. demandes 1 Also I demande what furniture or commodity in seruing God the Christianity of any age or any part of Christendome had euer by your Congregations THe seruice of God hath small neede of furniture in outwarde thinges for God being a spirite is not worshipped with outward pompe but with spirituall and inwarde reuerence And as for other furniture that is necessary was decreed to the Church by the Emperour Constantine and his successors that were of our Church before the reuelatiō of Antichrist Notwithstāding the Church was in better case before such furniture was graunted than it was since Therefore it is a small reason to chalenge the Church of Christ by outwarde furniture 2 VVhat Churches did you builde for your assemblies and seruice OVr assemblies were kept in secret places long time after Christes Ascension in most cuntries that were subiect to the Romane empire Wherefore the building of materiall churches proueth nothing at all the builders to be members of the mystical Church that is the body of Christ Howbeit in such realmes and cuntries where the faith of Christ was receiued by publike authoritie as in this lande of Brytaine there were churches builded as our Chronicles declare And when Constantinus had geuen peace to the Church he also builded Oratories and great Synagoges called Basilicas for our assemblies and seruice 3 VVhat Bishoprickes for the gouernment of the Church did you finde AS the church continued longe without materiall churches so also without large possessions for the lyuing of bishops yet in Brytish Church our histories make mention that the possessions and places of the Pagane Flamines and Archiflamines were conuerted to the vse of Ecclesiastical bishops and archbishops so soon as Lucius the king receiued the faith Also the same histories do testifie that when Augustine came into Britayn there were still 7. bishops and one archbishop among the Britaines And in the Romane Empier Constantinus and other Christian Emperors appointed great possessions for the mainteyning of the ministers of the Church 4 VVhat Vniuersities Schooles or Colledges did you euer erect THe Church of God hath alwayes had schooles or Vniuersities for the mainteinance of godly learning For the first Colledges of monkes in solitary places were nothing els but Colledges of studentes that were after as occasion serued taken to serue in the Church as appereth by Chrysostome in his booke De Sacerdotio where he sheweth that Basilius who was a Monke with him was taken by violence and made a minister of the church as he him selfe was afterwarde Also in the bishops house was a colledge of studentes and our histories testifie that at Bangor in Wales was a great Vniuersitie of learned men Also of late dayes you may heare that diuerse Vniuersities Scholes and Colleges are erected by Protestants in Germanie and other contries that haue receiued the gospel As at Wittemberge Geneua Zuriche Conigsperge in Prussia c. 5 Name one Church not builded in all fashions as well for the making of the chancells the forme of the aultars the vse of the chalices the signification of the vestiments as also for the speciall intent of the builders thereof Name one of them in the whole Church of Christ either erected for your Faith Church seruice or not prepared in all sorts for catholike practises Proue vnto me that any of all those thinges were euer prouided for any other seruice and Religion then ours or that they be monuments of any other Fayth and Church then the common Catholike and I recant HEre are many wordes to litle purpose What if it were graunted that all churches that now remaine were builded by Papistes and for popish vses what had you wonne thereby The same chalenge might the Idolaters haue made to the Apostles Shew vs a temple in all the worlde that was not builded by Idolaters and to mainteyne Idolatrie Certeinly they could shew none when the Temple of Ierusalem was destroyed But for all your bragges we are able to shewe that such Churches as were builded by true Christians were not builded to such ende as yours are for they were all builded in the honour of God and the most of yours in the honour of creatures for wheras you haue one Church in the honour of Christ you haue neare a thousand in the honour of Sainctes For Basilius magnus in his 141. epistle proueth the holy Ghost to be God because he hath a Temple For Omne Templum Dei Templum est Euery temple is the temple of god Also Didymus in his booke De spiritu sancto which S. Ieronym translateth vseth the same reason and to the same purpose S. Augustine in the same matter is very plentifull as in his booke De vera Religione cap. 55 speaking of the Sainctes he sayth Quare honoramus eos charitate non seruitute nec eis templa construimus c. Wherfore we honour them with loue and not with seruice neither doe we build temples vnto them for they wil not be so honored of vs because they know that we our selues when we are good are the temples of the highest In this saying beside his iudgement for building of temples note that he will not haue Sainctes to be honored with seruice which he calleth seruitus and is the same that dulia is contrary to the Papistes which will worship them with seruice called dulia or seruitus Also in his 174 epistle to Pascentius he sayth the holy Ghost could not haue our bodies to be tēples except he were God And in his Enchiridion ad Laurentium cap. 56. he sayth howe should he not be God which hath a temple Also in the 8. booke cap. 27. De ciuitate Dei. Nec tamen nos ijsdem martyribus templa c. he sayeth Christians builde no temples vnto Martyrs which were to make them gods And in the 22 booke cap. 10. De ciuitate Dei. Nos autem Martyribus nostris non templa sicut dijs sed memorias sicut hominibus mortuis quorum apud Deum viuunt spiritus fabricamus Nec ibi erigimus altaria in quibus sacrificemus martyribus sed
vni Deo martyrum nostro sacrificium immolamus ad quod sacrificium sicut homines Dei qui mundum in eius confessione vicerunt suo loco ordine nominantur non tamen à sacerdote qui sacrificat inuocantur Deo quippe non ipsis sacrificat quamuis in memoria sacrificet eorum quia Dei sacerdos est non illorum Ipsum verò sacrificium corpus est Christi quod non offertur ipsis quia hoc sunt ipsi that is We truely do not build temples to our martyrs as vnto gods but memories as vnto dead men whose soules liue with god Neither doe we there set vp aultars in which we should sacrifice vnto the martyrs but to God onely which is God both of the martyrs and of vs doe we offer sacrifice at which sacrifice they are named in their place and order as men of God which haue ouercome the world in his confession yet are they not called vpon by the Priest that doth sacrifice for he offereth sacrifice to God and not to them although he doe sacrifice in their memorie because he is the Priest of God and not of them and the sacrifice is the body of Christ which is not offered vnto them because they them selues are the same Here also beside building of churches note that no sacrifice ought to be offered to Martyrs but prayer is a sacrifice therefore it ought to be offered onely to god Secondly that Martyrs were not called vpon in tyme of the sacrifice but onely named for remembrance Thirdly that Altares were not builded in the honor of Martyrs or other Sainctes as they be in Popish churches as our Ladies altar S. Peters altar S. Laurences altar c. Fourthly that the bodie of Christ which he sayeth was the sacrifice that was offered was not the naturall body of Christ but his mysticall bodie because he sayeth the Martyrs and it are all one whereby it is manifest that he meaneth the sacrifice of thankes giuing offered to God for the redemption of his church by the death of Christ Wherfore if this one place were well wayed it will interpret and aunswere all places of the auncient doctors where mention is made of sacrificing the body of Christ at the time of the communion But to returne to building of churches the same Augustine contra Maximinum Arrianum Lib. Titul 11. hath these wordes Nunc si templum alicui sancto angelo excellentissimo de lignis lapidibus faceremus anathematizaremur a veritate Christi ab Ecclesia Dei quoniam creaturae exhiberemus eam seruitutem quae vni tantum debetur Deo Si ergo sacrilegi essemus faciendo templum cuicunque creaturae quomodo non est Deus verus cui non templum facimus sed nos ipsi templum sumus that is If we shoulde builde a temple of wodde and stones to any holy and most excellent Angel shoulde we not be accursed from the Trueth of Christ and from the Church of God because we should shew that seruice vnto a creature which is due onely vnto God Therefore if we shoulde be sacrileges by making a temple to any creature how is he not true God to whome we doe not make a temple but we our selues are a temple If this be true how be not the Papistes accursed from the Trueth of Christ and from the Church of God which builde and vpholde churches to Angells as S. Michaels S. Gabriels c So that to builde churches as Papistes doe is church robbing or sacrilege Furthermore whereas you will vs to name one church whose chancell is not builded in all fashions to serue poperie First it is manifest that the first Churches which were builded for Christians had not the same fashion of chancels and other partes that most churches haue in Englande for that purpose reade the Panegyricall oration made before Paulinus byshop of Tyrus Euseb lib. 10. cap. 4. In which is described the fashion of that church builded in that citie farre vnlike the moste parte of churches at this day in all partes and specially in the chācel which was in the middest of that church a place compassed in with grates or wodden latesses called Cancelli wherof this worde chancel is deriued and the aultar stoode in the middest of it wherof some similitude remaineth yet in olde Cathedrall churches Contrariwise your chancells in most churches be at the Eastende and the aulter hard at the wall there was also but one alter in that church but you in euery church must haue many it is certaine also in their church the Ministers and Deacons stoode rounde about the table or aulter but so they can not about your aultars except some of them stande on the toppe of the wall or in the windowe Moreouer if you marke the most parte of olde churches in Englande you shall plainely see that the chancells are but additions builded sence the churches of likelihoode by the parsons that disdained to haue their place in the middest of the people as the olde manner was Also you may see some churches builded rounde as at London the Temple and an other is at Cambridge of the same fashiō And some churches haue the steple at the Est ende very vnhandsomely for placing of the roode lofte Againe many churches haue crosse Isles in which the people can not see the chancell nor the high aultar which argueth that there was no vse of such chancells when they were builded For such churches as are latelie erected haue the chancell and church all of one building and are made of such fashion that men maye see the highe aultar in euery parte of them Beside this in the Orientall church as their ceremonies are diuers from yours so no doubt the fashion of their temples differeth from yours As for chalices the church in the beginning was cōtent with wodden cuppes and then came Zepherinus and brought in the vse of glasses Acacius Amidenus is commended for selling the golden and siluer vessells of the church to redeme captiues Socrat. lib. 7. cap. 21. S. Ambrose also Offic. lib. 2. cap. 8. sayth the church hath golde not to kepe it but to be bestowed for necessarie vses for which it is lawfull to breake melt and sel euen the holyest vessells of all But of your church it is true that one said of olde time ye had wodden chalices and golden priestes but now you haue golden chalices and wodden priestes your vestimentes are of as good stuffe as your chalices The olde church knew none such but as your owne Authors write when they wente to celebrate they changed the affection of their minde rather than the garmentes of their body as Antoninus witnesseth of Fulgentius Howbeit we are content that your church by her gorgeous garments as well as by other thinges shoulde declare it selfe to be that woman which is described to be clothed in purple golde perles and such like ornamentes Apoc. 17. Finally wheras you will vs to name one church that
saying he coulde erre where he can not erre then this proposition is false the Pope can not erre so one proposition shal be both true and false which is impossible Likewise if he holde that hilde that the councell can not erre and the councell it selfe confesseth it that it may erre Gentle maister N. reconcile me these together which concerne a case that hath bene in practise and still is in the Papistrie and maye here trouble a mans conscience that woulde beleue your church and if he haue any wit restraine him for euer comming into your church If you can not vntie this knot nor winde your selfe out of this maze vnlesse you will be still obstinate it were wisedome for you to recant The 18. article hath but one demande I demande whether they were euer of the true Catholike church which either tooke to them selues newe names of religion according to the calling of any secte maister or liked not so well the name of Catholike or Christian as of their seuerall teachers as to be called of Arius Arians or of Caluine Caluinistes or of Luther Lutheranes or Protestants c. if any man therefore can proue vnto me that men which haue chosen to themselues to declare their diuersitie of faith from the common knowen Catholike church such newe names shoulde be of the Catholike church I recant I Aunswere that they which can not be content with the name of Christians but chose vnto them selues newe names after the calling of their secte maisters as Arrians Pelagians Franciscanes Dominicanes Benedictines Gilbertines Augustinians Scotistes Thomistes Albertistes c. are none of the Catholike church But the true Christians which desier most of all to be so called and compting it a most honorable name without chosing any other name be of the Catholike church although in reproch they be called of you Caluinistes and Lutherans As for the name of Protestants came first of them that made protestatiō against the decree of Spires in Germanie and from that time hath bene attributed to the professors of the Gospell which name they doe not so much delight in as you doe in the name of Papistes Therefore if nothing els do let you but the name there is no cause why you shoulde not recant The 19. article hath but one demande Againe if these which by the common calling and iudgement of Christian people be named and commonly taken for heretikes haue not in all ages proued them selues in the ende to be heretikes in deede notwithstanding their craking of Gods worde and therefore that the Protestants being so taken and called proue not so in deede I recant THose that by true Christians haue bene called and counted for heretikes haue proued so in deede and therefore the Papistes being called and counted heretikes of true Christians without doubt are heretikes in deede But it hath not bene alwayes true that they which of the people commonly called Christians were called and taken for heretikes proued so in deede For the true Christians of the Arrian people that were called Christian people were called and taken for heretikes and in reproch were called Homousians and Athanasians yet they proued and were in deede true Christians and no heretikes So the true Christians at this day being of the Papistes which after a sorte are named Christians called heretikes and in reproch Protestants and Caluinistes in that their faith agreeth with the worde of God proue them selues in deede to be true Christians no heretikes Therefore you haue bound your selfe to recant The 20. article hath 3. demandes 1 Likewise if any man can proue vnto me that either those be not true Christians which by the consent of nations and by olde prescription of so manye yeares as be sith their conuersion be and euer hath bene called Catholikes YOu your selues will not accompt the Grecians for true Christians and yet by consent of nations and prescription of as many yeares as you can prescribe they be and euer haue bene called Catholikes if you say they are not called by you I aunswere no more are you so called by thē And sence the time that you departed from them as great a portion of the worlde and as many nations haue called them Catholikes as you are able to shewe on your side Therfore either you must compte them true Christians or els you must graunt that they which haue ben long called Catholikes are not alwayes true Christians 2 Or that those can be any true members or children of the Catholike church which do mislike and mistrust so farre-forth these holy names as wel of Church as Catholike that they haue turned thē into Congregations and Gospellers and Protestants and such like HE is a foolish sophister that reasoneth from names to things as you doe most vainely and childishly we mislike the names of Church Catholike because we do sometimes vse these names Congregation and Gospellers or Protestantes and therefore be no true members of the Catholike church we neither mislike nor mistrust those names as you sclaunder vs neither doe we boast and trust onely in these names without the thinges them selues as you doe and as your forefathers the wicked Iewes crying the Temple of the Lorde the Temple of the Lorde the Temple of the Lorde when they had nothing lesse than the Temple of the Lord but rather a denne of theues So you crie the Catholike church the Catholike church the Catholike church when you haue nothing in deede but the synagoge of Sathan But because you make so much of these two names Church and Catholike let vs see what great mysteries are conteined in them This worde Church commeth of the Greeke worde Kyriaka in Latine Dominica in English the Lorde his house for so were they wonte in olde time to call their temples or oratories so that this worde church proprely signifieth a materiall temple and can not signifie the fellowship and communion of Christian people but by a figure Therefore if we other whiles vse this worde Congregation which can not denie but it is the English worde of this Greeke name Ecclesia that the Scripture vseth and signifieth without figure the same thing that this word Church doth by a figure you may be ashamed if you were not impudent to finde any fault with vs for so doinge Likewise this worde Catholike commeth of the Greeke worde and signifieth Vniuersall or ouer all which worde the common people doth not vnderstande Therefore we expounde it plainly and saye that the Catholike Church is the Congregation of Christ dispersed ouer all the worlde What reasonable man can reprehende this doinge and not rather your folly which thinke it inoughe if the people can prate like parates Catholike Catholike and vnderstande not what Catholike meaneth Thus as we doe not refuse these wordes Catholike and Church because they are commonly receiued so doe we interprete them by Vniuersall and Congregation because they are not else commonly vnderstanded 3 If therefore any thing can proue our
8. demandes 1 Let any Protestant in the worlde proue vnto me that their church coulde rightly be called Catholike which was so particular that no man aliue coulde name a place where any such church was WHy might not our Church when it was most hidden be as rightly called Catholike as the Church of the Apostles when it was so particular that it was cōteined in the narrow bondes of Iury for it is not called Catholike because it shoulde be euery where for that it neuer was nor shal be But because that where so euer it be in partes it is one body of Christ The Popish church is not in euery parte of the worlde For Mahomets sect is in the greatest parte Many cuntries are Idolaters and the most parte of them that professe the name of Christ are not in the felowship of the Popish church And whereas you saye that no man aliue coulde name the place where it was you make an impudent lye For although it were vnknowen to the Papistes and enemies thereof yet was it knowen to the true members therof It was in Italie whē Marsilius of Padua preached in France when VValdo preached at Lyons and there about In England when VVickliffe taught in Bohemia when Iohn Hus and Ieronyme of Prage did florishe 2 Or that it might be called holy which neuer had Baptisme or other sacramentes to sanctifie any of her followers withall IT had the spirite of God to sanctifie the true members of it and it had sacramentes to testifie the same Also did not the Bohemians baptise Were not pauperes de Lugduno baptised c. But if you count their Baptisme no Baptisme why did you not rebaptize in Queene Maries time all those that were baptized by our Church in King Edwards time 3 Or that it should be one which as soone as it grew vp in the world was diuided into so many sundry sectes NOne of vs will graunt you that our Church began first to grow when it was last brought to light and knowledge of the world for it hath continued euen since Christ But if there arose or were renewed many heresies with it that is no new matter but an olde practise of the deuill For as soone as the Church of Christ beganne to grow vp after his ascension euen in the Apostles time there were many sectes and heresies As the Iewes that mainteyned the lawe they that denyed the Resurrection among the Corinthians Hymenaeus and Philetus Simon Magus Cerinthus Ebion Marcion Basilides Valentinus Carpocrates c. So that there were many more heresies at the first preaching of the Gospell in and immediatly after the Apostles time then at the last restoring of the publike preaching therof vnto the worlde in our dayes And yet the Apostolike Church was one Church and so is ours at this day one and the same 4 Or that it might be called Apostolike which could neuer coūt by orderly sucession from any Apostle or Apostolike man. YOu are neuer able to answere the arguments that are brought to proue that Peter was neuer Bishoppe at Rome And then where is all your braggs of Apostolike sea and succession c. But be it that Peter was there except you proue succession of doctrine and faith as wel as succession of men your successiō is not worth a straw And our Church which holdeth all the doctrine of the Apostles and none other but the doctrine of the Apostles shall be truely called and founde the Apostolike Church when your with all her succession of Antichristes whore whoremongers heretikes Sodomites blasphemers coniurers c. shabe Apostaticall rather than Apostolicall 5 Or the secret base contemptible defaced and disordered Congregation was euer of that maiestie that it might require the obedience of all Nations HOw base and contemptible soeuer it be in the eyes of the wicked despisers of it yet did it not only require but also subdue all nations to the obedience of the Faith so many as were euer subdued in the dayes of the first Christian Emperors and before And sence when it was most defaced by the tyrannie of Antichrist it was of such maiestie that it both required and obteined the obedience of the realme of Bohemia and in processe of time hath obteined the obedience of almost all the nations of Europe If the churche of Rome reteine the like maiestie why doth it not now requier the like obedience of all nations both Christians and Turkes you will saye It requireth but it can not obteine Euen so I aunswere of our Church it hath alwayes bene worthy to requier but it hath not pleased God that it shoulde alwaies obteine 6 Or that it was euer able to gather generall Councels THe foure best generall Councells were gathered by our Church and the Emperors that were defenders of the same and not by the byshops of Rome Neither were they Presidentes in them as it is manifest that other men were Authors of the Canons or distinctions As of the Nicene Alexander Bishop of Constantinople of the Constantinopolitane Nectarius byshop of the Ephesine Cyrillus byshop of Alexandria of the Chalcedonense Anatolius of Constantinople c. and in other generall Councells where the bishop of Rome was president I aunswere as Iohn Patriarche of Antioche did in the Councell of Basile his presidence was Honoraria ad beneplacitum Concilij eis data non authoritatiua nisi ex concessione aut permissione habente vim concessionis aut ex tolerantia that is For honor sake graunted to them so long as it shoulde please the Councell and not of authority but either by graunt or permission being of the force of a graunt or els of sufferance And I conclude as he doth the Pope was neuer President either of honor or of authority but by the graunt or permission of the Councell And how is the Popish church able to gather general Councells at this daye who will come at her calling Except a few Spaniardes and a ioly company of buckram bishops of Italie generall Councells of all the worlde can neuer be gathered but either whē there is a Monarchie or els which is not to be looked for that all the Princes of the worlde will consent together 7 Or exercise Discipline BEcause this demande hath bene aunswered so often before I will saye the lesse nowe The free course of discipline in time of persecution may be hindred As it was in S. Cyprians time when the members of the Church be dispersed but the power of discipline hath alwayes remained and when occasion serued bene executed As the Bohemians excommunicated the Adamites and the ciuill Magistrates punished them by the sworde 8 Or that these names proper by scripture and Doctors of the true Church coulde be euer chalenged by any right to their saide Congregation AS many of these names as are proper to the Church by scripture or Doctors agreeing with scripture haue bene alwayes iustly chalenged of right to perteine to our Church and Congregation I meane these 1 Corpus