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A86681 The essence and unitie of the Church Catholike visible, and the prioritie thereof in regard of particular churches discussed. / By Samuel Hudson minister of the Gospell. Hudson, Samuel, 17th cent. 1645 (1645) Wing H3265; Thomason E271_19; ESTC R212195 42,476 56

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proves himselfe not to be truly godly and so all those Ordinances were null being administred by one that was not only no Minister but no true member of the Church I conclude this answer with that saying in Ames in his Bellar. enervat Falsum est internas virtutes requiri à nobis ut aliquis sit in Ecclesia quoad visibilem ejus statum Object The Church Catholike is Integrum and the particular Churches are membra and therefore neither of them can be Prima or Orta in reference of one to another because being Relata they are simul naturâ and both Integrum membra are both of them Orta argumenta Vide Rami Dialecticam Indeed we finde in Logick that both Genus and Species Answ Integrum membra are Orta Argumenta and that it is not meant in reference one to another but to those arguments which are called Prima as Cause Effect Subject Adjunct and Contraries And it would be a Logicall dispute not Theologicall to define whether Integrum or membra have the primary consideration seeing they are Relata Quorum alterum constat è mutuâ alterius affectione Ergo dicuntur simul esse naturâ For Totum est quod habet partes Pars est quae continetur à toto So that a thing cannot be said to be a whole but in reference to the parts nor can any thing be said to be a part but in reference to the whole for though it may have a being before the whole yet it is not a part of the whole untill the whole be Yet for the clearing of this Objection we must consider that Integrum membra admit of divers kinds and considerations and though in a constant permanent or continuous body whose particular individuall parts rise and fall together with the whole so that it cannot consist but of so many essentiall individuall parts whereof it is constituted there the whole and the parts whereof it is constituted as they stand in relation unto one another must be simul naturâ yet the Church Catholike being as I may say a kinde of discreet successive indefinite body alwayes transient and in flux some members being alwayes in their adding and some alwayes in taking away so that even in respect of the particular parts it is not one houre every way the same it was the last I say that in reference to the members that are to be added the whole must needs be accounted first because it hath a being before the addition and after the substraction and the members must needs be first added to the whole before they can beare the relation of parts unto it And herein it is like a Corporation whose first members whereof it is constituted are simul naturâ with the whole yet all the members that are added successively finde it a Corporation before their addition and so are not simul naturâ with the whole Object The Church Catholike is made up of the particular Churches and therefore it is Orta and they are Prima Answ To let passe Logicall disputes consider we the universall and particular Churches in a theologicall notion and we shall find as hath been already proved that the particular Churches or congregations do rise out of the Church Catholike and not contrary For the members of a particular congregation are first members of the Church Catholike and admitted thereinto before they come to be capable of being members of a particular Congregation for no Congregation takes a heathen in first and makes him a member and then a Christian but he is first made a Christian and then made a member Yea I conceive that there may be many belonging to the Church Catholike that belong to no particular Congregation whose conversion hath been by accidentall providence as by reading or discourse or haply hearing a disputation or Sermon and yet their habitation or imprisonment slavery banishment travell or other occasions may not suffer them to joyne themselves to any particular Congregation and yet are visible Christians yeelding professed subjection to the Gospell in their lives and conversations And are by being of the Church Catholike fit to be members of any Congregation but are actually none Suppose a man by transplanting into America suffering shipwrack should swimme to some unknowne land and there live among the natives is that man without or if he should convert a native to the faith in Christ is he without is he not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Of what Congregation was the Eunuch that was baptized by Philip and yet we doubt not to say he was a Christian and one of the Church members but it must be the Church Catholike So that we see the Church Catholike consisteth not of particular Congregations only but particular members that may not haply be drawne into congregations As not only all Cities Towns and Parishes in a Kingdome belong to that Kingdome but all particular Persons living under and by the same lawes though haply there should be some that live not in any township or village but in some Island forrest or in ships as the manner is of many families in the Netherlands or as I have heard of some house that stands so that no Parish in their Perambulation did over fetch it in And if we must account the particular Churches to be primae because the Church Catholike is made up of them then we must account particular families to be the prime Churches because the Congregations are made up of them and they are called Churches in the Scripture Rom. 16.5 1 Cor. 16.19 Col. 4.15 Philem. 2. And we know God had his Church in families in the Patriarchs times before it was either Nationall or Congregationall But it is plaine that particular Congregations are made up of a certain number or parcell of the members of the Church Catholike and not contrary And so were the Churches in families also Now then seeing it is evident by the former Scriptures and Arguments that there is a Church Catholike visible And seeing that the Names Nature and Priviledges of the Church the Promises and Ordinances of God the Offices of Christ and Signes of the true Church the Members of the Church and Ministry of the Word belong first to the Church Catholike visible and that every particular Christian beare first and last relation thereunto which relation cannot be broken off by any removall or without sinne and that particular Churches spring out of the Church Catholike I therefore conclude according to the light God hath given me That the Church Catholike visible is Prima and the particular Churches are Ortae From this Thesis give me leave to propound to your further consideration these Corollaries or Conclusions Concerning Churches Catholike Particular Persons Publike viz. the Officers Private viz. the members Concerning the Church in generall 1. That there is a Church Catholike 2. That the Church Catholike is but one 3. That the Church Catholike is visible 4. That though the Church Catholike be alwayes
concedimus and therefore he must grant the generall Church to which those particulars belong to be of the same kinde Object 1 All that can be said against the former consequence as I guesse is that though the particular Churches have existence yet the generall hath none but only a notionall essence and exist only in the particulars as Animalitie existeth not by it selfe but in homine Bruto Answ Answer here were some colour in this objection if you consider the Church Catholike onely as a genus and the particular as species yet not enough to amount to a deniall of a Church Catholike visible no more then any Logician denyeth Animal because there is no such creature but in homine bruto But the proper notion of the Church Catholike and particular is of integrum membra And so as I said before Ames in his medulla taketh it Congregationes illae particulares sunt quasi partes similares Ecclesiae Catholicae atque adeo nomen naturam ejus participant And then the argument standeth thus Vbi omnes partes existunt simul compacta ibi totum existit sed omnes partes Ecclesiae Catholicae visibilis existunt simul compacta Therefore The minor 〈◊〉 proved Eph. 4.16 From whom the whole body fitly joyned together and compacted by that which every joynt supplyeth c. This place is spoken of the Church militant because organicall and organicall because the officers are there reckoned up and Catholike because it is the Church to which Apostles Prophets and Evangelists are given They have the same Lord the same law the same spirit and have influence by love sympathy and prayer into the wellfare one of another For my part I conceive the Church Catholike to be Totum integrale and the particular Churches to be similares partes and so members thereof and parcels thereof as the Jewish Synagogues * Jam. 2 2. 2 Thes 2.1 Heb. 10.25 Tilenus in thes part 1. disp 14. Theft 3. were of the Jewish Church though with some more priviledge for both Sacraments c. and that every particular Church partaketh of part of the matter and part of the form of the whole And these parts are limited and distinguished from others by civill and prudentiall limits for convenience of meeting and maintenance and transacting of businesse and that every Christian is a member of the Church in whose limits he dwels being only in the generall Covenant of Baptisme And this membership is either divolved on him by Gods disposing providence by reason of his birth or cohabitation there or voluntarily assumed by his voluntary removall into that place allotted out by civill prudence for such a particular society to enjoy the Ordinances of God conveniently together For he knew the Minister and members before he came in or might have done at least if he had pleased and it is at his choice to remove out again if he dislike either officers or members But of any Christian mans or womans dwelling in any City or Towne where there was a Church and not to be a member of that Church or to be a member of another Church in another town or city and reside in his own but per accidens as some doe distinguish hath neither example nor warrant in the Scripture But seemeth to me to imply an unchurching those places from whence they are gathered As a man that comes to dwell in a towne shall thereby be a member of it and ruled by the officers thereof in civill affaires and if he like it not he may remove and if they have any thing justly against him they may punish or restraine remove him so it is in the administration of Ecclesiasticall jurisdiction And as the limits of the particular seas and their names are from the shoares and lands they are bounded by though a heterogeneall body so may particular Churches well be bounded by civill prudentiall limits though they seeme heterogeneall We find frequently in Scripture The Church which was in Jerusalem Antioch Corinth Ephesus Yea Cenchrea a port town some 8. miles from Corinth gave name to the Church therein Object 2 If they be all one Church it is necessary they should all meet sometimes together Answ It is no more necessary then that all in a kingdome or empire should meet sometimes it is enough that they are under the same King and governed by the same lawes and inspired by the same Spirit and walke in the same wayes and tend to the same end and fare the better for one anothers prayers and rejoyce in the welfare and mourne for the ill fare one of another and help one another as they have opportunity And yet we reade that many times the Church Catholike visible hath met in generall Councels by their delegates or commissioners as a ministeriall Church Catholike which in former times of the Church under Christian Emperours was frequent and there is no intrinfical let in the Church that they do not meet so still but only extrinsicall and extraneous by reason of the divisions among the civill Governors but even in our dayes a great part of this great body hath met in the Synod of Dort by commissioners Dr Whitakers and Apollonius acknowledge the meeting Act. 1. to be a generall Councell The members were the Apostles who were Pastours of the Church Catholike and Brethren out of Galilee and Jerusalem The worke was to elect an Apostle who was to be a Pastour of the universall Church and they that undertake and dispatch a busines which concernes the teaching and government of the whole Church must represent the whole Church Catholike Yet there is so much power given to every Presbyteriall Church at least as may uphold it selfe and exercise the discipline of the Church for the being and well being of it ordinarily Yet so as it is a part of the Church Catholike into which also the censures there past have influence as shall be shewed more afterwards And on some great occasions there may be cause to fetch help further as Cranmer appeald to a generall councell But if that extensive power cannot be had as now it is very difficult then must that particular nationall provinciall or Presbyteriall Church rest in that intensive power that remaines within its owne limits Yea even in a congregationall Church if it stand so as it cannot combine with neighbours or have recourse unto them it must be so but that is an extraordinary case and so not to be regulated by ordinary rules And in such cases also all civill power must rest in one congregation as if it were in a wildernes where there were no neighbour townes or cities to which it might be joined yet it followeth not that it must be so in England or any other kingdome where there are counties shires cities great townes or a Parliament Yea I know not but a particular family may yea must be in such an extraordinary case Independent both in Ecclesiasticall and civill matters
gates of hell but onely that on earth And though it be applicable to the invisible onely yet to those as visible for so they are assailed by persecutions and heresies Againe He that beleeveth and is baptized shall be saved This doth primarily belong to the Church Catholike and that a visible Church because capable of Baptisme and though it be applicable to every member of any particular Congregation yet not as being a member thereof but of the Church Catholike to which that Promise was made yea look over all the Promises in the New Testament and you shall finde them made in generall without the least respect or reference to the particular Congregations wherein the Beleevers lived In any similar body as water the accidents doe not primarily pertaine to this or that particular drop and secondarily to the whole but first to the whole and secondarily to this or that drop So the Priviledges of the Church doe not primarily belong to this or that particular Church and secondarily to the generall but first to the generall and secondarily to this particular being a part of it The maine Priviledges of the Church visible are first Federall Holinesse to the children secondly right to the Ordinances quoad nos saltem now neither of both these betide any man primarily as a member of a particular Congregation but as a member of the Church Catholike For Federall or Covenant Holinesse whereby the children are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 betideth no mans children because the parents are of this or that particular Congregation but because of the Church Catholike and this appeares by divers demonstrations I will give you but one That which should have been though the particular relation had never been and which continueth when the particular relation ceaseth that is not a proper Priviledge of that relation but such is federall Holinesse in regard of relation to any particular Church Suppose those baptized by John Baptist or by Christs Disciples before there was any particular distinction should have any children or the Eunuch if he were an Eunuch by office only and not in body baptized by Philip and went immediately home into his own country should not their children be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Suppose a Church dissolved by warre the Minister and people slaine and some women left with childe should be carryed away captive should not those children be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 because the particular relation is extinct Doe not those women remaine members of the Church Are they to be counted without in the Apostles sence Secondly for Ordinances either of Worship or Discipline they are both Priviledges of the Church Catholike primarily For Worship a man or a childe hath right to Baptisme as a member of the Church Catholike and not of the particular Congregation for they had right before Congregations were distinguished as in John Baptists and Christs time and the Eunuchs case and have right after that relation ceaseth as children born in captivity as in the former instances such children being holy are capable of Baptisme Infantes baptizandi sunt non ut sancti sint sed quia sancti sunt Whitak And therefore no question but any Minister might baptize those children if he could come by them And for hearing the Word of God let a Christian dwell where he will and have opportunity to heare the Word where he can he hath right to it and doth heare it not as a heathen that is without but as his rightfull portion And even in Congregationall Churches the brethren in one Congregation communicate at the Lords Table in other Congregations as occasion is offered And no question but any Christian may joyne in prayer and say Our Father c. with any Christians in the furthest parts of the world And for the Ordinances of Discipline every one as a member of the Church Catholike is bound to submit thereunto and every officer of the Church Catholike visible hath right to power in the Ordinances of Discipline in actu primo every where as shall be shewed more afterward And certainly the Church Catholike even in their representative ministeriall body have more extensive authoritative power then particular Classes or Congregations though haply not more intensive Neither can it be imagined that all the other Priviledges should belong first to the Church Catholike and so descend to particulars and this of Discipline should belong first to the particular congregation and so ascend to the Catholike that some should go in a geneticall method as it were and others in an analyticall Suppose an Apostle should have preached in a citie and converted at first but two or three or converted a company of women as it was Pauls lot to preach to a company of women Acts 16.13 So that they could not be brought in to an organicall congregation could it be conceived that they though baptized were still without and were not their children 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And if any of them should miscarry in their judgements or practises had Paul nothing to doe to censure them because they were not in a Church way as some terme it or in a particular Congregation though they were in the Church Catholike visible If they were lyable to censure or capable thereof not being in a particular congregation but the Church Catholike only then Discipline belongs to the Church Catholike and that primarily The Keyes of Discipline were first given to the Church Catholike because first given to the Apostles who were generall Pastours and therefore the Keyes are Catholike Also censures past in one Congregation reach the whole Church Catholike visible as shall be shewed more afterward That which belongeth to all and every part of a similar body as parts of that body that primarily belongeth to the whole but so doth Discipline Therefore c. Argument 3 Thirdly Christs Offices are first intended for and executed on the Church Catholike here below He is King Priest and Prophet primarily in respect of the whole and but secondarily in respect of a particular congregation or member Gods aime in Redemption was to redeeme the whole firstly and secondarily particulars God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son c. And so is the application of that redemption by Christ As a Priest he reconcileth cleanseth and intercedeth for all of the elect and proffers it to the whole Church Catholike visible As a Prophet he teacheth all As a King he ruleth all primarily and particulars secondarily As an earthly King is indeed King of Thomas and John c. but not primarily but secondarily as they are members of his kingdome And the naturall head is indeed head to the little finger and little toe but not primarily but as they are parts of the whole body whereof it is head so is Christ a mysticall King and head first of the whole and secondarily of the particular parts contained in and under the whole Yea Christ may be King Priest and Prophet to
a particular convert brought in and nourished by the word of God preached in a visible congregation before he be admitted a member of that congregation or any other by publike consent remaining in no Church but the Church Catholike visible and haply scarce being a compleat member of that being as yet not baptized Fourthly the signes that difference a true Church from a false do Argument 4 not primarily belong to a particular congregation but to the Church Catholike visible viz profession of the true faith the administration of the true ordinances of God the Word and Sacraments for therein all the whole Church agree and is thereby distinguished from those that are without not from those that are within This is no note to know this or that particular Church by from another for it is common to the universall Church it distinguisheth not among themselves but from the generall common opposite the heathen or the grosse heretick A man being lead into a vault where were the sculls of many dead men and understanding that Alexanders scull was there desired his guide to shew him that his guide told him it was that scull with the hollow eye holes and with the gristly nose and with futures crossing the brain pann and when the man replyed that they had all so yea saith his guide there is no difference between Kings and other mens sculls when they are dead So if any man should ask you or me which is the Church of Ipswich Dedham or Colchester it were a folly to say it is the Church where the word of God is preached and sacraments administred and that professe Iesus Christ to be crucifyed dead and buryed risen again and ascended into Heaven for so do all the Church Catholike but I must give some other notes to distinguish any of them for these are not distinctive because common Therefore the signes of the true Church belong primarily to the whole secondarily to particular parts thereof and are therfore not distinctive to the parts That which is primary to any thing is distinctive to that thing but that which is secondary and common is not distinctive from other particulars of the like kind Fiftly all the members of particular Churches are members of the Church Catholike yea that relation belongs first to them If they be born within the pale of the Church they have federall holines and are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not because members of this or that congregation but because born of parents within the generall covenant externally and so within the Church Catholike If they be converted from heathens they are not first converted into this or that particular Church but converted first into the Church Catholike and then secondarily admitted members of this or that particular congregation A man may dwell in one City and heare the word of God by accident in another city and thereby be converted but he is not converted to be a member of the Church where he was converted but into the Church Catholike So that particular congregations are made up of members of the Church Catholike therfore most properly are said to be Ortae for such a cōvert may joine himselfe after his conversion to what congregation he pleaseth to inhabit among If a man come into a parish that is a heathen he is not a member of that particular Church because not a member of the Church Catholike but if he be a Christian then is he a member of that particular congregation where he resideth or fit so to be and ought not to be denyed admission or communion though he had never bin member of any other The particular companies in London are made up only of free men that are joyned together in some particular body or society belonging to such or such a hall now the first notion that comes upon any of these persons or companies is that they are freemen of London and secondarily that they are distinct from other free men by being of this or that particular society belonging to such a hall So it is for all Churches First all the members are conceived to be free of the Church Catholike and secondarily distinct by their societies in this or that particular assembly And though haply this similitude holdeth not in every thing as the not removing from one company to another and being received in there because he is a freeman yet is it free for any Christian to change his particular relation from one congregation to another because he is a Christian and takes not up his first freedome into a particular congregation or company but in to the Catholik They are made members of the whole by conversion to the faith and initiated by the sacrament of baptisme externally but are secondarily made members of a particular congregation by cohabitation or consociation Suppose a man had abundance of sheep as Abraham Isaack Jacob and Job who had 14000. and these sheep had all one brand of the owners upon them and these sheep were divided into severall flocks under severall shepheards in severall sheep-walks of the same owners according to his appointment the primary consideration of any of these sheep or flocks is not that they are under such a keeper in such a sheep walk but the first consideration of them is that they are such a mans sheep either bought or bred c. bearing his brand and fed by his servants on his ground and then the more particular and secondary consideration and notion is that they are under such a particular shepheard in such a particular walke And so the first consideration of any part of Gods flock whether person or Congregation is that they are Gods people borne or converted to him fed and nourished by his Ordinances and Ministers and then the particular secondary notion is that they are fed by such a Pastour in such a place It is an usuall similitude on all hands to compare the Church to the Sea or Ocean which though it be one yet as it washeth upon this or that countrey receiveth the name and distinction of the Germane Spanish Irish Brittish Seas And so when it puts in at any creeke because it is continuous with the Sea we call it the Sea And we say the sea comes up at Harwich Ipswich Manitree Colchester now it were an absurd thing for any man to think that the particular seas were the prime seas and the maine is mare ortum Or because the name sea is indulged to this or that arme or creeke that therefore that should either monopolize the name Sea that there should be no sea but such creekes or that any such creekes should arrogate the name and priviledges of the sea first to themselves and leave them but secondarily to the maine So it is for particular Congregations which have the name and Priviledges of the Church indulged to them at second or third hand because they are members and similar parts of the whole to usurp and challenge the name and
and be the better accepted and submitted unto without heart burning and grudge against the particular Elders or fear of revenge Secondly it is impossible for one congregation to enjoy all the Ordinances of God within themselves First Synods and Councels are acknowledged to be the ordinance of God and particularly by that reverend Divine Mr Cotton in a late booke set out by him and he groundeth it on Act. 15. And though some of our brethren for congregationall Churches wave that place yet grant the thing and are members of one at this time and this Ordinance all men will grant cannot be had in one congregation but sometimes requires the helpe of a whole Province Kingdome yea many Kingdomes Yea secondly the Ordinances that nearly concerne a particular congregation cannot be performed by that alone for how can a congregation of private Christians try the sufficiency of an Elder to be elected over them and if they have a tryed man among them who shall give him imposition of hands which is belonging only to Elders to performe Neither have our Brethren of congregationall Churches ever dared as farre as I have heard to permit common Christians to impose hands on their Elders but alwayes desired the Elders of other congregations to doe it and therefore they cannot have this Ordinance among themselves And though this seeme to some a thing of small weight yea but a * Quisquiliae veritatu sunt pretiosissimae complement yet is it an Ordinance of God And the Apostle Heb. 6.1 2. reckoneth it up amongst the Principles of Religion and part of the foundation which place Hen Jocob urgeth vehemently to overthrow the lawfulnesse of all the Ministers of the Church of England because they have as he conceived erred in the foundation not having right and due imposition of hands of the Presbytery though by his leave he was mistaken for those that imposed their hands on them were Presbyters And this impossibility befals a Church either in the beginning of it and first constitution or may at other times by mortality of Elders or when but one remains alive which will be frequent And because it is not rationally probable that the Churches of Jerusalem Rome Corinth Philippi Thessalonica or the 7 Churches of Asia were meerly congregationall but rather Presbyteriall unles it were in their very infancy for a little time before their numbers were increased It seemeth difficult to me to find in Scripture an expresse instance or example of a congregationall Church standing and continuing so by it selfe The Church of Cenchraea mentioned Ro. 16.1 is the most probable because of the conceived smalnesse of the place yet it is not certaine for it was a Port Town * Oppidum Corinthiorum navium statione c●leberrimum et ideò frequent val●e populorum Gualr in Rom. 16. and yet it may be the necessity of those times and disjunction from other places might make it stand single for a while at least And yet there might be more congregations then one therin if it were so popuous as some say Indeed we find 1 Cor. 14.34 these words Let your women keepe silence in the CHVRCHES which word Churches if it doth import severall companies meeting in severall places to enjoy the publike Ordinances and that these companies are called Churches which is to some a Question yet it is certain they were all one combined Church of Corinth often spoken of in the singular number But this dispute belongs not to this Question yet the present difference of opinions and practises have caused me to dilate a little upon this subject beyond the explication of the Tearme And I understand by particular Churches any or all the fore-mentioned Churches whether Nationall Provinciall Presbyteriall or Congregationall and this last principally for those that have first mooved this Question meane principally if not solely the congregationall Church because as I suppose they hold no other particular Churches but such The fourth Tearme to be opened is What is meant by Prima vel Orta This distinction or at least in these tearmes is not ancient for Mr Parker in hic Politeia Eccl. was the first that sprung it as farre as I know Primum in Logick is defined to be Quod est suae Originis Ortum quod oritur à primo But I suppose in this Question it is meant which hath the priority in consideration Whether in our apprehension of Churches we are to begin at the Church Catholike and descend to particular Churches or begin at the particular Churches and ascend to the Church Catholike Which notion is first in distinct knowledge whether Ecclesia universalis aut particularis Which is as the root which the branches Which is as the mother which the daughter Or to speake more punctually Whether the nature and priviledges of the Church belong first to the particular congregation and so ascend to the Church Catholike or belong first to the Church Catholike and descend unto the particular Churches I do not in this Question by primum meane absolutè primum for God only is Eus primum who hath his being in himselfe and from himselfe and giveth being to all his creatures And so the whole Church is Gods house built by him but Primum in suo genere in genere Ecclesiarum Neither doe I meane by Ortum that the particular Churches doe arise out of the generall by the sole vertue or innate power and strength of the Church Catholike but because the particular Churches are made up of the members of the Church Catholike and partake of the benefits and priviledges of the Church primarily not because they are members of the particular Churches but of the Catholike And yet I deny not but that a Ministeriall Synodicall or Classicall Church made up of delegated Members of divers particular Churches pro tempore which some improperly call a representative Church may put on the notion of Ecclesia Orta and the particular Churches out of which those members are chosen and delegated may in some sence in reference unto them put on the notion of Ecclesia prima but the Question is not so stated but between the whole Church Catholike and whole particular Churches Now I have opened the Tearmes of my Question I find two Questions instead of one and whether of them is the most difficult I cannot tell For whereas the subject of every Question useth to be taken for granted and the predicate only proved I find the subject of my Question exceedingly opposed and that by our own Divines and therefore I must crave leave to confirme that sufficiently or else whatever I shall say of the predicate will be as a house built on the sand or a castle in the aire For if there be no universall Church visible then it is not capable of being prima or Orta In handling both these Questions I shall follow my wonted method I preferre one divine testimonie before ten arguments and one good argument before ten humane testimonies First