will become of Ecclesiastical Authority Immunity Liberty c. Every Heretique or Sectary how turbulent and seditious soever if he can but procure a Safe Conduct or the word of some Temporal Prince for his Security shall be exempt from Censure may preach write spread Heresie without check or controul Wherefore the Council sayes no more in effect then is in it self evident viz. that an inseriour Tribunal cannot hinder the proceedings of a superiour But enough of this matter To his Lordships Question why they should go to Rome to a General Council and have their freedom of speech since the Church of Rome is resolved to alter nothing I answer Protestants were never invited to a General Council at Rome to reform the Church that 's a work to which they can pretend no competent Authoriy but they were invited thither to be better instructed and reclaimed from their errours The Roman Church is sufficiently authoriz'd by Saint Paul viz. that though an Angel from heaven should teach otherwayes then shee had taught he ought not to be believ'd In like manner the Fathers in the Council of Trent might with good reason be resolv'd firmly to stick to the Doctrine they had formerly been taught by the Catholique Church notwithstanding any pretended difficulties or objections brought against it either by Bishops or any other person 5. His Lordship goes on and blames both A. C. and F. Campian too for their boldness in saying that no good answer can be given by English Protestants why they refuse to grant a publique Disputation to Catholicks The Bishop thinks it a very good Answer to say that the Church of England hath no reason to admit of a publique Dispute with us till we be able to shew it under the Seal and Powers of Rome that the Roman Church will submit to a Third who may be an indifferent Judge between Catholicks and Protestants or to such a General Council as is after mentioned But I would fain know who this Third indifferent Judge should be If he prove an Heretique or Schismatique he will hardly be found indifferent 't is to be fear'd he will be partial in the cause Perchance he shall be some Atheist Turk or Jew Judges fitly chosen indeed to sit upon the Church of God But would his Lordship think you have taken it for a satisfactory Answer if some Brownist or other Sectary in his time upon his Lordships vouchsafing to dispute with them in hope to reduce them to union and obedience should have answered we will admit a Dispute provided your Lordship and the rest of your Prelatical Church of England will accept of a Third to be Judge between you and us might not the Arrians or any other Ancient Heretiques have as well required a Third to judge between them and Catholiques in Controversies wherein they differed Yea may not every known Rebel upon the like pretense demand a Third to be Judge between him and the King his Sovereign and in case of refusal remain obstinate in his rebellion even as well as the Protestants do persist in their spiritual Disloyalty to the Vicar of Christ because a Third person is not accepted to be Judge between him and them To what he intimates of a General Council we say if it be a lawful one viz. call'd and approv'd by the Pope as Head of the Church as all lawful General Councils hitherto have been we shall never refuse to submit to it but heartily wish that all the Relatours party would do the same CHAP. 13. Protestants no part of the Church ARGUMENT 1. How the Separation of Protestants from the Church was made 2. Whether the Roman-Catholiques or They do imitate the Ten Tribes 3. The Roman Doctrin concerning the Holy Ghosts Proceeding c. more antient then the Bishop pretends 4. In what cases Particular Churches may declare Articles of Faith 5. The word Filioque when added to the Creed and why 6. No Particular Church hath power to reform what is universally taught and receiv'd 7. The Protestants Synod at London 1562. neither General nor Free 8. Gerson and all his other proofs fail the Bishop 9. Protestants never yet had either true Church or Council 1. WE are again told that Protestants did not depart from the Church of Rome but were thrust out by her without cause What the cause of their expulsion was we have already declar'd and shall not refuse here again briefly to repeat It was because by their Heretical doctrine and Schismatical proceedings they had first separated themselves from the Church and became both unworthy and uncapable any longer of her Communion They had raised a new Separate and mutinous Faction of pretended Christians distinct from the one Catholique or general Body of the Church They had chosen to themselves new Pastors independent of any ordinary and lawful Pastours of Christs Church that were before them They had instituted new Rites and Ceremonies of religion fram'd new Liturgies or Forms of Divine Service They had schismatically conven'd in several Synods or Conventicles and there broacht new Heretical Confessions of Faith contrary not only to the true Catholique Faith but to the Faith of all particular Churches what ever existent in the world immediately before they began Thus Protestants of themselves first departed from the Churches Doctrine and Communion and persisting obstinate in their evil opinions and practises the Church was forc'd to proceed against them according to the Canons and by just censure cast them out of her bosom lest otherwise by their scandalons division high disobedience and pestilent doctrine they might further infect the Flock of Christ which was committed to her charge The Bishop denies he ever granted that Protestants did first depart otherwise than he had before expressed § 21. num 6. But that is enough he there acknowledges that an actual separation at least was made by Protestants and A. C. here asserts no more Whether this actual separation were upon a just cause preceding as the Relatour pretends is a thing to be disputed between A. C. and him although indeed it be of it self clear enough to any who duly considers it that Protestants neither had nor could have any just cause for such a Separation as A. C. pag. 55 56. and all Catholiques do charge them with For it was a Separation not onely from the Church of Rome but as Calvin himself Epist. 14. confesses à toto mundo from the whole Christian world and such a Separation necessarily involves separation from the True Catholique Church from which as it hath been often urg'd already even by the confession of Protestants themselves 't is impossible there should ever be just cause to separate The Bishop grants that Corruption in manners onely is no just cause to make a separation from the Church of God yet cannot forbear to have a fling at the corrupt manners of the Church of Rome quoting for that purpose Dr. Stapleton But I wonder our Adversaries take notice of
to their execution But surely one and a chief one of those ALL was to teach Infallibly the whole doctrine of Christs Gospel Wherefore Christ is still present with his Ministers inabling them to perform this so important a work when 't is necessary to be executed that is when the necessities of the Church require some point in controversie among Christians to be determined Nor will that conclusion hence follow which his Lordship fears viz. that all the Sermons of every Pastour of the Church would be Infallible for 't is no wayes necessary that every particular Pastour should be Infallible but 't is absolutely necessary that the Church in general or a General Council should be Infallible because otherwise there would no means be left in the Church sufficient to determine Controversies of Faith or prevent the spreading of Schismes and Heresies To the end my Reader may the better conceive this he is to understand there are divers degrees of Christs presence and assistance in reference to the Ministers of his Church All of them cannot challenge all priviledges but must be content with those that properly belong to their respective state and condition in the sacred Hierarchy And yet as all the said degrees are grounded upon this and the like promises of our Saviour so 't is necessary they be all verify'd according to the respective necessities of the Church The Supream Degree we affirm to be that of Infallible Assistance and therefore assign it onely to those who have Supream Authority in the Church and in cases onely of most urgent necessity for preventing of Heresies and Schismes In all other cases and in reference to all other Ministers of the Church we profess that so long as the Teaching and Governing part of them is continually so assisted by Christ that it generally leads not his Flock into errour in Faith nor neglects to teach them the observation of all things Christ commanded the promise is sufficiently perform'd on Christs part and St. Leo's words In omnibus quae Ministris suis commisit exequenda rightly enough explicated though every private Pastour become not a Prophet and every Pulpit an Oracle as the Relatour vainly surmizes The third place urged by A. C. is out of St. Luke 22. 32. where Christs prayer for St. Peter is as efficacious as his promise both of them implying an Infallibility in the Church against all errours in Faith whatsoever The words are these Simon Simon Behold Satan hath required to have you to sift as wheat But I have prayed for Thee that thy Faith fail not and thou once converted confirm thy Brethren 'T is clear that Christ here prayed that Faith in the Church might not fail either by praying for St. Peter as he was a Figure of the whole Church which is the exposition of the Parisians or by praying immediately for St. Peters person and mediately for the whole Church which he represented Aud thus at least that our Saviour in that Taxt prayed for the whole Church Bellarmin expresly grants in the very beginning of the Chapter cited by the Bishop It seems strange therefore that his Authority should be brought for denial of our Saviours praying here for the Church The prayer then of Christ extended it self to St. Peter and his Successors and by them to the whole Church according to those words of St. Bernard Dignum namque arbitror ibi potissimum resarciri damna Fidei ubi non possit Fides sentire defectum Cui enim alteri Sedi dictum est aliquando Ego rogavi pro Te ut non deficiat fides tua c. I think it fitting saith he that the damages in Faith should be there chiefly repaired where Faith can suffer no defect For to what other Chair was it ever said I have prayed for thee that thy Faith fail not Take therefore which of these Expositions you please if an Infallible Assistance of Christ be once granted whereby his Church is sufficiently preserv'd from all errour in Faith whether that Assistance be immediately intended in this prayer to St. Peter and his Successors as Supream Teachers of the Church or to the Church immediately as represented in St. Peter yet still the Church will be Infallible by vertue of this prayer of our Saviour 8. The fourth place named by A. C. is that of St. John chap. 14. 16. to which he addes a consequent place John 16. 13. both of them containing another promise of Christ to his Apostles and in them to his Church viz. that the Comforter the Holy Ghost shall come and abide with them for ever teaching them all things c. and guiding them into all Truth We have already sufficiently explicated these places in proof of the Churches Infallibility So that our chief labour at present shall be to observe the Bishops various Trippings and Windings in his review of them First he sayes these promises if you apply them to the Church consisting of all Believers and including the Apostles are absolute and without any restriction which certainly is but a loose assertion taking it in the Bishops sense which is that the Apostles were free not onely from all errour but from all ignorance in Divine Things for so his Authour a Dr. Field speaks whom he cites in the Margin Were the Apostles not ignorant of any Divine matters why then doth St. Paul tell us 1 Cor. 13. 9. We know in part Did the Apostles understand the whole counsel of God concerning mankinde why then doth the same Apostle cry out Rom. 11. 33 35. O the depth of the Wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgements c. and who hath known the minde of our Lord Secondly if these promises of Christ be so absolute and without any restriction in regard of the Apostles to what purpose is that Text of Theodoret cited in his Margin which sayes expresly they ought to be limited in regard of them and that they did not signifie the Apostles should be led simply into all Truth but into all Truth necessary or expedient to Salvation Thirdly the Bishop having limited the promises of being taught and led into all Truth as they relate to the present Church onely to Truths necessary to Salvation he is not yet satisfied but addes another limitation to that viz. Direction of Scripture Against this Truth saith he meaning Truth necessary to Salvation the whole Catholique Church cannot erre keeping her self to the Direction of Scripture as Christ hath appointed her But I ask what Priviledge then has the Catholique Church in these promises of Christ more then every private Christian Surely with this condition of following the direction of Scripture there is none of the faithful but may pretend to be as Infallible as the Church Fourthly they must be limited sayes he to all such Truths as our Saviour had told them But the Apostles were taught divers things of principal concernment in order to Salvation by the Holy Ghost
also does the same with St. Chrysostome yea once againe wee challenge our Aduersaries to nominate if they can any one ancient Father or Christian writer that euer noted this an errour or priuate doctrine in Origen that he taught Purgatory or that in any sort intimates him to haue been the Authour or inuentour of it and yet the world knowes Origens errours and priuate opinions were diligently noted by Antiquity But this 't is sure enough our Aduersaries can neuer doe and therfore lett noe man thinke it vnreasonable in vs that wee still confidently presume and assert that this doctrine hath no beginning assignable and consequently according to St. Austins rule aboue mention'd is to be thought an Apostolicall Tradition 14. Jt is therfore firmly to be beleeu'd by all Catholiques that there is a Purgatory yea wee are as much bound to beleeue it as wee are bound to beleeue for instance the Trinity of Incarnation it selfe if by this manner of speaking be mean't only that wee can noe more lawfully or without sin and peril of damnation deny or question this doctrine beeing once know'n by the Churches definition to be reueald by God and pertaining to the Catholique Fayth then wee may deny or question the sayd Articles of the Trinity and Incarnation though wee confess there is not the same necessity or obligation for all men to know the one as the other or to haue explicite beleefe of one as of the other Nor can J doubt but the Bishop himselfe would haue confess'd in the sense aboue mentioned that wee are as much bound not to disbeleeue any thing euen of least moment contain'd in Scripture when wee know it to be there contained as to beleeue the sayd Articles and as this is farre from beeing esteem'd blasphemy by any good Christians so is the other if rightly vnderstood CHAP. 26. The infallible certainty of Christian Fayth confessed yet subuerted by the Bishop ARGVMENT 1. Why noe matter of doctrine defind by Generall Councils may be deliberately deny'd or doubted of 2. A. C. doth not teach that euery Catholique Priest in the Roman Church able to preach is infallible 3. Jnfallibility in teaching how rightly inferr'd by him from the Holy Ghosts Assistance 4. To what intent our Janiour left the Prerogatiue of infallibility in his Church 5. No certain meanes in our Aduersaries principles to be assur'd that a Generall Councill erring in one point does not erre in all 6. The Relatour by allowing priuate persons to examin the definitions of Generall Councils allowes them in effect to iudge and censure them 7. Posteriour Councils no less necessary for the infallible determination of controuerted points of Fayth then the fowre first 8. Infallible assurance requisite in superstructures as well as points Fundamentall 9. The insufficiency of the Relatours reason to the contrary 10. No help for him from St. Thomas and our Authours touching the extent of necessary points 11. His nugatory descanting vpon words 1. THus much for Purgatorie 'T is time now that wee return againe to A. C. who giues his Aduersarie a why no man may deliberately doubt of much less deny any thing defin'd by a Generall Councill viz. because euery such doubt is a breach from the one sauing Fayth in that it takes away infallible creditt from the Church so as the diuine reuelation beeing not sufficiently applyed it cannot according to the ordinary course of Gods Prouidence breed infallible Fayth in vs. Jn answer whereto the Bishop insists wholy vpon principles already confuted viz. that deliberately to doubt and deny what is defined by Generall Councils doth not take away infallible creditt from the whole Church the contrary whereof wee haue often shew'n in this Treatise Likewise he tells vs the creditt of the Catholique Church is safe so long as she is held infallible in things absolutely necessary to Saluation which absolutely necessary things neither himselfe nor any body else could euer yet resolue vs what they are or how to know them And beside seeing he teaches that all points absolutely necessary to Saluation are plainly sett down in the Creed and Scripture how is it possible wee should haue need of the infallible Authority of the Church now or hereafter to beleeue any such points of Fayth Againe if the whole Church may erre in points not absolutely necessary to Saluation noe reason can be giuen but it may also erre in deliuering and interpreting any particular texts of Scripture which containe matter or doctrine not absolutely necessary which supposed it necessarily followes that wee cannot beleeue with certaine infallible and diuine Fayth any thing deuer'd in Scripture it selfe saue only a very few points to witt the chiefe and Fundamentall Mysteries of our beleefe Lastly seeing the whole Church consists of all particular members which can neuer be found out and consulted with by any person and that consequently there can be no sufficient assurance had of what they all hold as absolutely necessary to Saluation how is it possible wee should be mou'd by their Authority as the Bishop here supposeth to beleeue all or any points of Fayth absolutely necessary to Saluation 2. The Relatours next worke is to carp at the gloss which A. C. giues to those words of St. Paul Rom. 10. 15. how shall they preach etc. that is sayth A. C. how shall they preach infallibly By which manner of speaking yet he does not meane whateuer the Bishop imputes to him to make euery Priest in the Church of Rome that hath learning enough to preach an infallible Preacher He was not ignorant that the natiue and immediate sense of those words compar'd and ioyn'd with the fore-going how shall men beleeue vnless they heare etc. is only to signifie that for the Propagation of the Gospell 't is necessary there should be Preachers and that noe man ought to take that office vpon him vnless he be sent that is ordain'd and called by Allmighty God He was not so simple as to thinke euery priuate Preacher infallible You will say then why does he comment vpon the words how shall they preach etc thus how shall they preach INFALLIBLY vnless they be sent from God and infallibly assisted by his Spirit J answer the reason hereof was because the word preach which the Apostle vseth doth not signifie sermons only but absolutely the announcing or publication of diuine doctrine by all such as are lawfully appointed to publish it and in what manner soeuer it is necessary for beleeuers that it be publish't and announced to them Now there beeing confessedly a twofold annunciation or manner of publishing diuine doctrine to Christians the one priuate and meerly ministeriall which is perform'd by priuate and particular Pastours to their particular and respectiue flocks the other publique and authoritatiue viz. of the Pastours of the whole Church assembled together in Generall Councils and this latter in regard of the publique and vniuersall benefitt which comes by it the more important of the
not thinking it fit for unlearned persons to judge of particular Doctrinals but to depend on the judgement of the true Church which point of Infallibility the Bishop sought to evade saying That neither the Jesuit nor the Lady her self spake very advisedly if she said she desired to relie upon an Infallible Church because an Infallible Church denotes a particular Church in opposition to some other Particular Church not Infallible 2. Here already you may observe the Bishop falling to work on his projected Labyrinth by making its first Crook which is apparent to any man that has eyes even without the help of a Perspective For though he could not be ignorant that the Lady sought not any one Particular Infallible Church in opposition to another Particular Church not Infallible but some Church such as might without danger of Errour direct her in all Doctrinall Points of Faith call it an or the Infallible Church as you please for she had no such Quirks in her head yet the Bishop will by no means understand her sincere meaning but instead of using a charitable endeavour to satisfie her perplexed Conscience vainly pursues that meer Quibble on purpose to decline the difficulty of giving her a satisfactory Answer in his own Principles Neither indeed does that expression an Infallible Church denote a Particular Church in opposition to some other Particular Church not Infallible but positively signifies a Church that never hath shall or can erre in Doctrine of Faith without connotating or implying any other Church that might erre Nor can it be pretended that the Particle a or an is onely appliable to Particulars seeing the Bishop himself applies it to the whole Church For omitting other places see page 141. where speaking of the whole Militant Church he sayes And if she erre in the Foundation that is in some one or more Fundamental Points of Faith then she may be a Church of Christ still Here sure he cannot mean a Particular Church by this expression A true Church but the whole Catholique or Universal Church unless he intended to speak non-sense viz. That the whole Militant Church is a Particular Church And what Learned Interpreter ever understood those words of Saint Paul Ephes. 5. 27. That he might exhibit to himself A glorious Church c. of any other save the Universall Church of Christ And seeing the Lady made enquiry after that Church IN WHICH one may and OUT OF WHICH one cannot attain Salvation as the Bishop sets down the words of Mr. Fisher page 3. it is evident that really and in effect she sought no other save the Universall Visible Church of Christ which A. C. to take away all doubt of her meaning expresses pag. 1. by saying that she desired to depend upon the judgement of THE TRUE Church Why then might not the Lady express her self as the Bishop himself does in the place above cited by the Particle a or an and yet not speak so improperly that he must needs mistake her meaning The truth is it was an affected mistake in his Lordship as any man may easily perceive that has not lost his discerning faculty But the Bishop having now entred his hand and willing to shew his dexterity betimes immediately redoubles the Crook he had made while to countenance his former trisling with the Lady touching an Infallible Church he craftily attacks Bellarmin for maintaining an Infallibility in the Particular Church or Diocess of Rome as hoping to make that opinion pass for an Article of Faith among Catholiques which it is not and by confuting it to seem to have overthrown the Infallibility of the whole Catholique Church Now though Bellarmins opinion is indeed That the whole Clergy and People of Rome cannot erre in Faith and desert the Pope so long as his Chair remains in that City yet the Bishop knew very well that the Catholique Church doth not restraine the Doctrine of her Infallibility to that opinion of Bellarmin it being sufficient for a Catholique to believe that there is an Infallibility in the Church without further obligation to examine whether the Particular Church of Rome be Infallible or not By what has been hitherto faid a man may easily perceive the candour of the Bishops proceeding and what he is to expect from him throughout his whole Work which will I assure you for the greater part be found to correspond with that you have already seen 3. From the fourth page to the twentieth he goes on disputing against severall Opinions of Bellarmin as whether the Popes Chair may be removed from Rome and in case of such Removall whether that Particular Church may then erre which seeing they are but Particular Opinions I shall not expostulate them with the Bishop as being no part of the Province I have undertaken And as to the Authorities here quoted by Bellarmin out of St. Cyprian St. Jerom St. Gregory Nazianzen c. in proof of his opinions touching the Particular Church of Rome seeing they are neither cited by the Cardinal to prove any Articles held de Fide among Catholiques nor impugned by the Bishop but as insufficient to make good those particular Opinions though he hoped the Reader would make neither of these reflections I cannot hold my self oblig'd to take notice of his pretended Solutions till I finde them brought to evacuate the Infallibility of the Catholique or Roman Church in its full Latitude as Catholiques ever mean it save when they say expresly the Particular Church or Diocess of Rome as here Bellarmin doth However I intend to examine them when I come to treat the Question of the Infallibility of the Universal Church Where I make no doubt but I shall clearly evince against his Lordship and the whole party these particulars following First that to draw the word perfidia which St. Cyprian useth to his own sense the Bishop leaves out two parts of the Sentence which he ought necessarily to have expressed Secondly that by glossing almost every word of the Text imperfectly alledged he makes that Father give no more Priviledge to Rome then what was due to every particular Church yea to every Orthodox Christian of those times quite contrary to St. Cyprians intent Thirdly how he presses St. Cyprians not being tax'd by the Ancients for holding a possibility of the Popes teaching Errour in matter of Faith but never reflects that he was as little tax'd by them for affixing possibility of Erring to the Universall and Immemorial Tradition of Non-rebaptization embrac'd and practised against him by the whole Church Fourthly I shall shew that his Lordships Answer to St. Hieromes Authority is meerly Nugatory making him advertize Ruffinus that the Apostolicall Faith first preach'd at Rome could not in it self be any other then what it essentially is that is it could not be changed so long as it remained unchang'd Fifthly that he trifles as much in the allegation of St. Gregory Nazianzen For though that Father useth the word Semper retinet as
take due notice of them and weed them up 't is a thing we confess and the Bishop gains nothing by it No more doth he gain by alledging Cassander whose credit among Catholiques is so little that his testimony would be of no great weight were it positive and home to the purpose whereas 't is manifest he speaks doubtfully and dares not absolutely averre the Bishops had taught any Superstitions all he ventures to say is that through their covetousness he was afraid such Superstitions were continued and even this he ascribes rather to particular and inferiour Bishops then to the Pope 3. 'T is true there have been Schismes at Rome as it happened in the time of St. Cyprian when Novatus leaving Africk went to Rome and there raisd troubles Yea after him Novatianus proceeded so far as to cause himself to be made Antipope against Cornelius and had many followers by which means a Schisme sprung up but still a great part stuck to Cornelius the true Pope Wherefore even during the Schisme as well as before the Roman Church rightly and truly so called continued the Catholique and as incorrupt as ever And why because they that left the Communion of the true Pope and made the Schisme corrupted themselves but not the Roman and Catholique Church which adhered to him and were for the time of their separation of no Church at all but of the Synagogue of Satan Whence it appears that St. Cyprian could not imploy Caldonius and Fortunatus to bring the Roman Church to the Communion of the Catholique as the Bishop pretends but onely to reclaim the Schismatiques and bring those divided Members which followed Novatian to their due Obedience to Cornelius their lawful Bishop and thereby to the unity and communion of the Roman Catholique Church Still therefore the Roman or Catholique Church remained free and exempt from errour either of Schisme or Heresie and so shall ever continue maugre the malice of Hell and whatever vain objections to the contrary 4. A. C. further charges the Relatour to have confes'd that Protestants had made a Rent and Division from the Roman or Catholique Church here the Bishop is not a little nettled and flatly denies that ever he affirm'd or thought that Protestants made it For my part I think it an unprofitable dispute to question much what was said it more concerns us to see what could or can be said in this point Our Assertion is That Protestants made this Rent or Schisme by their obstinate and pertinacious maintaining erroneous Doctrines contrary to the Faith of the Roman or Catholique Church by their rejecting the Authority of their lawful Ecclesiastical Superiours both immediate and mediate by aggregating themselves into a Separate body or company of pretended Christians independent of any Pastours at all that were in lawfull and quiet possession of Jurisdiction over them by making themselves Pastours and Teachers of others and administring Sacraments without Authority given them by any that were lawfully empower'd to give it by instituting new Rites and Ceremonies of their own in matter of Religion contrary to those anciently receiv'd throughout all Christendom by violently excluding and dispossessing other Prelates and Pastours of and from their respective Seas Cures and Benefices and intruding themselves into their places in every Nation where they could get footing the said Prelates and Pastours for the most part yet living These and the like practices not the calling for truth and redress of abuses as the Bishop vainly pretends we averre to have been the True and Real Causes of Protestants-being thrust out of the Church For as Almighty God leaves no man who leaves not him first so neither doth the Church separate her self from any man or thrust him from her Communion who doth not first depart and separate himself from her by obstinate adhering to novel opinions contrary to the true Faith or by his wicked and enormous demeanour contrary to true Charity or by both together The Orthodox therefore did very well in departing from the Arrians as the Relatour notes in the Margin because the Arrians were already departed from the Church by their false Doctrine and we are so far from denying that the sin of Schisme is theirs who depart first that we charge it upon our Adversaries for as the Arrians then departed first from the Church not the Church from them so did the Protestants now of late and the Faithful did well in both cases to avoid all Communion in matters of Religion both with the one and the other Nor does the Bishop vindicate the Protestant party by saying the cause of Schisme was ours and that we Catholiques thrust Protestants from us because they called for truth and redress of abuses For first there can be no just cause of Schisme this has been granted already even by Protestants and to his calling for Truth c. I answer what Heretiques ever yet forsook the Church of God but pretended truth and complain'd they were thrust out and hardly dealt with meerly because they call'd for Truth and redress of Abuses But he should have reflected that the Church of God is styled a City of Truth by the Prophet and a Pillar and Foundation of Truth by the Apostle and by the Fathers a rich Depository or Treasury of all Divine and Heavenly Doctrines or 〈◊〉 so that to charge her either with the want of Truth or opposition to the preaching of it and upon that ground to forsake her Communion as Protestants did is an inexcusable impiety and presumption That Woe therefore of Scandal mentioned by the Bishop whether Active or Passive falls most heavily upon his own party who first took effence without just Cause and afterwards gave just cause of offence by departing from the Church and making a Schisme A thing so clear and undeniable that to use the Relatours own expression our Adversaries may better defend their cause before a Judge and a Jury then before an Assembly of learned Divines After this the Bishop quarrels with A. C. for vindicating the Jesuit But what 's the subject of their quarrel The Jesuit averr'd the Bishop to have said That Protestants did make the Rent or Division from the Roman Church The Bishop denies he said any such thing A. C. proves he said it either 〈◊〉 or aequipollentibus verbis because the Jesuit writ down his words in fresh memory and upon special notice taken of the passage Hereupon the Bishop falls into exclamations and admirations as if A. C. stood upon the brink of a Contradiction But I answer there is not here the least shew of a contradiction For though his Lordships words were very few though writ down by the Jesuit in fresh memory and upon special notice taken yet might the Jesuit well enough be said to quote them either iisdem or aequipollentibus verbis For timorous and tender Consciences think they can never speak with caution enough for fear of telling a
any case yet it is not absurd that in some cases the Prince or Mother may accuse witness judge and if need be execute Justice against unjust and rebellious Subjects or evil Children To this the Bishop replies that for the present he will suppose the Roman Church to be both a Prince and a Mother that he may not seem to avoid the shock of A. C.'s Argument but addes withall that no moderate Prince ever thought it just or took upon him to be Accuser Witness and Judge in any case of moment against his Subjects I answer that a Prince being liable many wayes to errours and mistakes in judgement ought in equity to submit to some indifferent Judge in all matters of personal and private interest between him and his Subjects though in matters of publick concern as of Treason or the like where the business is evident and admits not the delayes of legal Formality I think it would not be accounted unjust for the Prince to be Accuser Witness and Judge too againct a Traiterous Subject However the Church may lawfully judge her Accusers because she is Infallible in her decisions of Faith and hath full Authority finally and absolutely to determine all controversies of that nature As for Parents the Bishop grants that while Children are young they may chastise them without other Accusers or Witnesses then themselves and the Children are not withstanding such correction to give them reverence But saith he when Childen are grown up and come to some full use of reason there ought to be remedy for them against their Mother if she forget all good nature and turn stepdame unto them which I willingly grant and leave such injur'd Children for remedy to the Magistrate and the Law to both which the Children may lawfully appeal and the Mother ought to submit as to her Superiours But the Catholique Church duly and compleatly represented in a General Council hath no superiour on earth neither is it lawfull for any private Christian or Christians upon any pretence to appeal from her to any Third Person in causes of Faith the case therefore is not alike Secondly I deny the Bishops supposition viz. that the Roman Church taken in the sense we take it is or ever can be such a Stepdame to her Children or so far forget her duty both to God and them as justly to deserve the Accusations which Protestants her undutiful and rebellious sons bring against her and therefore towards them as well as towards the rest of her children she still retains the rights of a Mother and they must not take it ill if as occasion serves she exercise towards them some part of her Motherly Authority but rather bethink themselves of returning to their Due Obedience and conforming themselves to that holy Exhortation of St. Peter which for their better content I shall give them out of their own Bible viz. that laying aside all malice and all guile and hypocrisies and envies and evil speakings as New-born Babes they desire the sincere Milk of the Word that is the pure uncorrupted Christian Catholique Doctrine that they may grow thereby to salvation 2. But even abstracting from the Churches Infallibility in matters of Faith her proceedings towards Protestants will be found upon due examination most just For though a Prince or Parents may not in all cases be Accusers witnesses and Judges of their Subjects or Children because it may possibly be evident that they tyrannize over them or treat them injuriously yet when matter of fact is so evident that it cannot be deny'd by their respective Children or Subjects when laws and custom of the whole Nation do also evidently declare the things criminal for which they are punish'd what need is there absolutely speaking of any further Witness or Judge to punish them Now this is our case The things for which the Roman Church condemns and punishes Protestants are clearly matter of Fact viz. preaching and teaching such Doctrine as the Church forbids to be taught actual disobedience to her Canons separating themselves from the communion of other Catholique Christians opposing and contradicting their lawful Pastours in matters concerning Religion c. all which are criminal actions and clearly punishable not onely by the Canons of the Church but by the Laws and Constitutions of every Catholique Countrey No need surely of Accusers and Witnesses where the Offence is notorious Well therefore might the Pastours of the Church who were their proper Judges proceed to Canonical Sentence against them seeing as I said it was notoriously evident and by themselves not deny'd that they oppos'd and contradicted not onely the publique doctrine and belief of all Christians generally throughout the world but also the Laws both Ecclesiastical and Temporal Statutes Decrees Customs and Practises universally in force in all Nations where they began their pretended Reformations When the Separatists of England in Queen Elizabeth's or King James his time pretended to reform the Protestant Church-Decrees and Customs in England and call'd for a Judge between the Prelates and them did the then-Church-Governours scruple to condemn and punish them though they neither esteem'd themselves Infallible nor to act by any Infallible Rule for their Commission to do this was onely from the King and State and their Rule not the Scripture which the Separatists pretended to as much as themselves but either the Book of Common Prayer or the thirty nine Articles or the Queens Injunctions and Book of Canons Do not their Canons excommunicate all that deliberately oppose any of their said thirty nine Articles Did they not for this reason ordinarily summon Anabaptists Brownists Familists and other Separatists to appear at their Spiritual Courts as they call them did they not proceed to sentence of Excommunication and other Censutes as the case requit'd and the Laws of their Church enabled them to do Nay did they not upon this ground oftentimes Excommunicate us Roman Catholicks for refusing to frequent their Churches did they not bring us into Sequestrations Imprisonments and a thousand other troubles Would they hear us when we appeal'd either to Scripture Fathers Church Councils or any other third person to be Judge between them and us Behold a very just proceeding When they fall foul either upon us or their own Separatists they are content to be Accusers Witnesses and Judges but when they are call'd to justifie their actings against the Roman Church then forsooth 't is an unjust and unreasonable thing then they call for a Third Person to judge not because they are indeed willing to be judged or regulated by any authority under heaven except themselves but because they know that a competent Judge between the Roman Church and them distinct from the Roman Church is impossible to be found A. C. therefore had reason to tell the Bishop that never any competent judge had so censured the Church as he had done and that indeed no power on Earth or in Hell it self could so far prevail against the
be certainly know'n or beleeued because forsooth the intention of him that administred these Sacraments to the Pope or made him Bishop Priest etc. can neuer be certainly know'n and yet by the doctrine of the Councils of Florence and Trent it is of absolute necessity to the validity of euery one of those Sacraments so as without it the Pope were neither Bishop nor Priest This is the summe of a much longer discourse which the Relatour makes to this purpose In answer to which in the first place I obserue though the Bishop leuels his argument only against the Popes infallibility yet it hath the same force against the infallibility of the whole Church in points fundamentall For seeing the whole Church cannot consist of other persons then such as are truly baptised and that no infallible assurance can be had that eyther all or any one in particular is baptised how is it possible wee should be infallibly sure that there is such an assembly in the world as the Bishop calls the Church that is a company of true Christians beleeuing all points fundamentall or absolutely necessary to saluation since wee cannot be infallibly sure that any of them are baptised Secondly I answer that both a Generall Council and the Pope when they define any matter of Faith doe also implicitely define that themselues are infallible and by consequence that both the Pope in such case and also the Bishops that sit in Council are persons baptised in holy Orders and haue all things Essentially necessary for that function which they then execute Neither is there any more difficultie in the case of the Pope now then there was in the time of the Prophets and Apostles of old whome all must grant that with the same breath they defin'd or infallibly declar'd the seuerall articles and points of doctrine propos'd by them to the faythfull and their own infallibility in proposing them Here therefore the Bishops argument hath equall force against all parties his own as well as ours and all must answer as wee doe narnely that it is not necessary first to beleeue the infallibility of the proposer to wit prioritate temporis or in respect of time and afterwards the infallibility of the doctrine he proposeth but it sufficeth to beleeue it first prioritate naturae so as the infallibility of the teacher be presuppos'd to the infallibility of his doctrine as without which this latter could not subsist or be beleeu'd by vs. Thus wee conceiue the Relatours Achilles is fall'n and truly it may seem much that in all his discourse he should take no notice of this answer to this obiection which is commonly giuen by diuines Was it because he knew it not or wanted a sufficient replie But this is but as it were the Prologue to the Play the Relatours maine business is about the Priests intention concerning which he first of all positiuely layes down that it is not of absolute necessitie to the essence of a Sacrament so as to make it voyd though the Priests thoughts should wander from his worke at the instant of vsing the essentialls of a Sacrament yea or haue in him an actuall intention to scorn the Church After which he tells vs a story how learnedly a Neapolitan Bishop in the Council of Trent disputed against the common opinion viz. which holds the Priests intention to be necessary himselfe pressing the grand inconuenience which he thinks would follow if any such intention were held to be essentially necessary in these words namely that then no man should be able to secure himselfe upon any doubt or trouble in his conscience that he hath truly and really been made 〈◊〉 of any Sacrament whatsoeuer no not of Baptisme and so by consequence be left in doubt whether he be a Christian or no. I shall speake first to his principall assertion which is that the Priests intention is not absolutely necessary to the essence or validity of the Sacrament If it be not I desire a reason of our aduersaries why wee should not thinke a Priest consecrates the Body of Christ as much at a table where there is wheaten bread before him and that eyther by way of disputation or reading the 26. Chapter of St. Matthew he pronounces the words Hoc est corpus meum as he doth at the Altar what is here wanting to the essence of a Sacrament according to the Relatours principles Here is the true forme Hoc est corpus meum Here is the true matter wheaten bread He that pronounces the Forme is a true Priest and yet in all mens iudgement Here 's no true Sacrament made Some thing else therfore is necessary to the essence of a Sacrament beside what is here found and what can that possibly be if it be not the intention which the Church requires you will say perhaps that the outward circumstances at least must shew to the standers by that the Priest really intends to make a Sacrament I answer first if it be not absolutely necessary that such an intention should be had why is it absolutely necessary it should be signified Secondly J deny that any such externall signification by circumstances is essentially necessary to a Sacrament Might not a Catholique Priest to saue the soule of some dying infant baptise it if he could without making any such signification by circumstances Might he not vpon pretense that he had skill in Physick and that it were good for the child to haue it's face often sprinckled with cold water take occasion himselfe euer and anon to be sprinkling the childs face and at one time amongst the rest to pronounce eyther softly or by way of discourse the words Ego te 〈◊〉 c. with intention to conferre the Sacrament and will any man doubt but that the Priest doing this out of a reall intention to baptise the child is really baptis'd though none of the standers by take notice by any circumstances of what that Priest does I aske therfore if in this case a true Sacrament be made though no circumstances doe outwardly signify that the Priest intends to make it why is it not likewise so in the other case viz. where a Priest hauing due matter wheaten bread before him pronounces the 〈◊〉 or words of Consecration meerly by way of discourse or reading Can any reason hereof be so much as imagin'd saue only this that in the former case the Priest hath a reall intention to make a Sacrament or to doe what the Church doth or what Christ did institute to be done but in the other he hath no such intention As for the inconuenience which the Bishop pretends would follow out of this doctrine viz. that no man can rest secure that he hath been really made partaker of any Sacrament no not of Baptisme it selfe I answer first that as to the farre greater part of Christians the inconuenience follows as much out of the Bishops principles as ours they cannot be absolutely certaine that they are Baptis'd For the Bishop
cleerly in this case His fifth instance is that Catholiques and Protestants agree that in the English Lyturgie there is noe positiue errour but both parties doe not agree that there is no errour in the Roman Missal Therfore says the Bishop according to A. Cs. rule it should be better and more safe to worship God by the English Lyturgie then by the Roman Missal which he is sure wee will not grant I answer first all Catholiques doe not agree that there is no positiue errour in the English Lyturgie neither dares the Relatour affirme they doe but only that some Iesuits confess 't so much in his hearing Secondly though they did that is though all Catholiques did grant there were no positiue errour in the English seruice-booke yet it followes not that therfore the English Lyturgie is better or more safe to be vsed in the seruice of God then our Missal Why because Catholiques doe not agree that it is so much as positiuely safe or consistent with Saluation to vse it as Protestants doe that is out of Hereticall persuasion and with Hereticall contempt of the Roman Missal For though it containes no positiue errour yet to vse it out of any such principles is certainly damnable sin and destructiue of Saluation The Arian Creeds contain'd no positiue errour against Fayth yet because they did not containe all that was necessarily to be beleeu'd and confessed by Christians and were sett forth by such as were know'n enemyes of the Catholique Fayth which was wanting in them they were always anathematiz'd and condemn'd by the Church as much as if they had contain'd positiue and express errour Did Catholiques grant that those who both vse the English Lyturgie and reiect the Roman Missal as Protestants doe were for all that in state of Saluation though they neuer repented and did sufficiently know the grounds and reasons why the Church forbids the vse of it the argument would haue force but seeing 't is otherwise our maxime stands yet good and 't is safer in order to Saluation to worship God according to the Roman Missal rather then according to the English seruice-booke notwithstanding it were granted which wee doe not that the English booke contain'd no positiue errour To his Sixth of the Arians confessing Christ to be of like substance with the Father and the Catholiques consessing him to be of the same substance J answer the Catholiques neuer granted possibility of Saluation to the Arians vpon the account of that Confession but always withstood and condemn'd it as an Hereticall False and impious assertion taken in their know'n sense that is restrictiuely and as importing no more then like For in this sense that Maxime holds good nullum simile est idem and to say the son of God was of like substance with the Father in that sense was plainly to deny him to be true God and of the same substance with the Father The like is to be sayd of his seauenth grounded vpon the agreement of dissenting parties in the Metaphoricall Resurrection of the soule from sinne whence the Bishop would gather that by A. Cs. rule it should be safest to beleeue only the sayd Metaphoricall Resurrection of the soule and lett that of the body alone But most vntruly For did euer any good Christian allow possibility of Saluation to any that deny'd the Resurrection of the body If not how is this instance within the rule which supposeth that both parties must agree in granting Saluation to one in his way or contested opinion The same Fallacy is apparent in his Eighth and Ninth For did euer any Catholique Christian allow Saluation to a Turke or a Jew in his Religion because they beleeued one God or to a Nestorian Heretique because he beleeu'd that Christ was true man what gross impertinences are these But no maruaile For 't is too apparent our aduersarie has quite forgotten the rule and fram'd another thing of it A. Cs. rule speakes precisely this andnomore viz. that when two parties differ in point of Religion 't is in prudence safest to take that way wherein both parties grant Saluation to be obtainable or to containe nothing in it opposite or inconsistent with Saluation whereas the Relatour presents it in an other dress and makes it speake thus viz. that when parties disagree as abouesayd 't is safest to resolue a mans Fayth into that in which the dissenting parties agree and to beleeue no more then they doe agree in which is farre from truth and a thing which neuer came into A. C. s thoughts and yet vpon this mistake 't is euident to any that will consider them most of the Bishops instances runne Tlius all the Relatours examples duly weighed are found too light and discouer'd to be indeed rather amusements then proofs A. Cs proposition that 't is safest in Religion to goe that way which is confessed by both parties to afford possibility of Saluation or to containe no damnable sinne in it remaining in the meane while a firme and vnshaken truth notwithstanding all our aduersaries endeauours to vndermine it If any thing yet be wanting to the due iustifying of it it shall be declar'd in the following chapter At present the Bishop hauing made soe many assaults in vaine seems to retire and put himselfe vpon the defensiue pleading he is not out of the Catholique Church though out of the Roman because the Roman is not the Catholique but a member of it as the Church of England he sayes is and requiring vs to shew how one and the same Church can be in different respects and relations both a particular and also the Catholique Church But I answer how often hath this been shew'n already by all Catholique writers had his Lordship been more willing to vnderstand the truth from them then to cauill about words and also by vs in this treatise namely that the Roman Church as it signifies the Christians of the Diocess or Prouince of Rome only is a particular Church but as it signifies the Society of all such Christians as professing the Catholique Fayth doe acknowledge the Bishop of Rome for St. Peters Successor and Head of the whole Church vnder Christ so it is formally and properly speaking not a particular but the very Catholique and vniuersall Church of Christ they beeing all eyther Hereticall or Schismaticall Churches or both that doe not acnowledge this Our aduersary therfore might flourish as much as he pleas'd with his vain and feigned Allegorie of an elder and younger sister but wee tell his followers such Rhetorique may serue to palliate but shall neuer iustifie nor excuse Schisme The Roman Church will be found in the day of account to haue been not an elder sister but a mother and such a mother whose Law and Authority was not so lightly to haue been forsaken and reiected by any of her petulant and disobedient Daughters Nor matters it much whether Brittains first Conuersion were before St. Peters coming to
DE FIDE of Fayth because some Council or other hath defined it is not such a breach from that one sauing Fayth as that he which expressly beleeues it not nay as that he which beleeues the contrary is excluded from Saluation so his disobedience therenhile offer no violence to the peace of the Church nor the charity that ought to be amongst Christians Wee doe not say that euery thing is de Fide that some Council or other indefinitely speaking be it generall or particular hash defined but that euery thing is de fide which is defined by a Lawfull Generall Council And for this how contemptuously soeuer he is pleas'd to speake of it because some Council or other hath defined it wee challenge all his adherents to shew what one Generall Council acknowledg'd for such eyther by themselues or vs did euer define any point of doctrine which they did not require all Christians to hold and beleeue as matter of Fayth after it was so defined as likewise to shew how 't is possible for Christians to disbeleeue what such a Generall Council hath defined without making themselues guilty of that sentence of our Sauiour Matth. 18. 17. He that will not heare the Church lett him be as an Heathen or Publican yea of that other Luc. 10. 16. He that despiseth you despiseth me Why shall not such a man be excluded from Saluation seeing that by the Bishops own doctrine the decrees of all Generall Councils are binding till they be reuers'd by an other Council of like authority why did he account it damnable sin to adhere to the condemned errour of St. Cyprian after it was condem'd by a Generall Councill seeing 't is manifest disobedience in that particular did of it selfe neither offer more violence to the peace of the Church nor to the charity that ought to be amongst Christians then disobedience in points determined by other Generall Councils is apt to doe and hath euer done as experience witnesseth So that in truth to suppose a disobedience to Generall Councils in point of defined doctrine which shall offer no violence to the peace of the Church nor to charity that ought to be amongst Christians is to suppose an impossibility and in effect to thinke that rebellion may consist with the peace of the state and that to cast of obedience to superiours is not to contemn their authority Wee doe not deny but there is a Latitude in the Fayth as the Bishop speakes that is all things pertaining to the doctrine of Fayth are not necessary to be expressly know'n and beleeu'd by all persons in order to Saluation and this Bellarmin's authority cited by the Bishop rightly proues But it follows not from hence that any man may deny or doubt of any point whatsoeuer that he knows is defin'd and propos'd by the Church to be beleeued as the Bishop and all Protestants doe It is not in it selfe absolutely necessary to Saluation to know or expressly beleeue many things reported in Scripture as for Example that Iudas hang'd himselfe that St. Paul was thrice beaten with rods that he left his cloake at Troas etc. but yet for any man to deny or doubt of these knowing them to be testifyed in Scripture I doe not doubt but euen Protestants themselues will acknowledge to be a great sin and without repentance inconsistent with Saluation In like manner though it be not absolutely necessary to know or beleeue expressly all verities defined by the Church as Bellarmin truly teaches yet it may be and is absolutely necessary not to disbeleeue or doubt of any one point that is know'n to be so defined As for our aduersaries beeing sure that our peremptory establishing so many things that are remote deductions from the Foundation to be beleeu'd as matters of Fayth hath with other errours lost the peace and vnity of the Church 't is but a partiall and groundless faney which all Heretiques and Schismatiques will plead as well as himselfe when they are put to it and may with as much right Was there not more disturbance and tumults in the Church during those Primitiue ages by reason of Arianisme Pelagianisme Manicheisme and other Heresies that then raged then there was for many hundred of years together before Luther began in which time neuertheless eyther all or most of the points now contested by Protestants were as fully defined by the Church and as generally beleeu'd by Christians as now they are With what truth or conscience then can it be sayd that the defining or establishing such points haue lost the peace of the Church True it is the Greekish Church hath opposed the Roman for a long time but what does that help Protestants seeing the world know's it is not for such points as Protestants doe now condemne in the Roman Church but for such errours as they themselues for the most part doe as much condemne in the Greeks as the Roman Church doth 'T is euident the Greeke Church consents with the Roman in all the chiefe points of controuersie betwixt the Roman Church and Protestants and this generall peace of the Church might still haue continued had not the pride arrogancy and temerity of Protestant Predicants first opened the gap to dissention by reuiuing and setting on foote condemned Heresies and by cooperating to so many other wicked Schismaticall and vnchristian disorders under pretense of reformation and obedience to the Gospell A C. tells his aduersarie it is not sufficient to beget a confidence in this case to say wee beleeue the Scriptures and the Creeds in the same sense which the ancient Primitiue Church beleeued them What says the Bishop to this He confesses 't is most true to witt that which A. C. told him if he ' did only SAY so and did not beleeue as he sayd But sayth he if wee doe say it you are bound in charity to beleeue vs vnless you can proue the contrary For I know no other proofe to men of any point of Fayth but confession of it and subscription to it J reply the Bishops answer falls short of A. Cs. demand For who can doubt but A. C. when he told the Bishop it was not sufficient in this case to say wee beleeue Scripture etc. mean't that beside verball profession and giuing it vnder his hand that he doth beleeue so and so he should proue it by solid and conuincing arguments that the sense in which he beleeues the Scripture and the Creeds is the same with that in which the ancient Primitiue Church beleeu'd them for otherwise he can neither be sufficiently assured himselfe nor can he giue sufficient assurance there of to others Just reason I fay had A. C. to demand this of the Bishop namely that he should proue his Fayth to be agreeable to that of the Primitiue Church obsignatis tabulis as they say that is by speciall vndenyable euidence and not thinke it sufficient only to profess and affirm it to be so But
two A. C. could not doubt but that really it was intended and must necessarily be included in the sense of those words of the Apostle how shall they preach etc. no less then the former J say that speciall annunciation or preaching of Christian doctrine must necessarily be included in the latitude of those words wherby the Prelats of the Church doe sufficiently applie diuine reuelation to Christian people for the grounding and eliciting an assent of true diuine Fayth which as wee haue often shew'n cannot be done by any Authority or meanes which is not infallible A. C. therfore takes not the whole but only the principall part or one principall kinde of preaching Christs Gospell when he so glossed vpon St. Pauls words And well might he so doe it beeing that without which the preaching of all particular Pastours to their particular flocks would be to little purpose for they could preach nothing but vncertainties or at best but probable doctrine As little cause had his Lordship to taxe A. C. of bragging because he auerrs that wee Catholiques vse to interpret Scripture by vnion consent of fathers and definitions of Councils For in a iust and true sense soe wee doe in as much as wee neuer decline but alwayes follow that interpretation of Scripture which hath consent of Fathers and the definition of Generall Councils Can Protestants say so much for themselues And yet our meaning is not that noe exposition of Scripture is good but what hath express consent of Fathers or the definition of some Generall Councill to backe it wee doe not deny but euen priuate persons may discourse vpon Scripture and declare their iudgement concerning the sense and meaning of it prouided they neither hold nor obtrude any sense contrary to the common consent of Fathers or the definitions of Generall Councils but hold and doe all things with due submission to the Church But the Relatour will proue from the authorities of Scotus and Canus cited in his margent that the Apostle in this place speaks not at all of infus'd that is of diuine and infallible Fayth but of Fayth acquit a to witt by naturall and humane industrie and meanes which beeing not infallible nor requiring any infallible Authoritie in them that preach it the Bishop thence concludes that A. C ' Gloss is not good but rather that he grossly abuses the text by it J answer first the precedent discourse and reason giuen for the gloss doe sufficiently discharge A. C. of that imputation leauing the note of a Precipitate censure vpon his aduersary Secondly I say the Bishops information abuses him there beeing not one word or syllable in Scotus which denyes infused that is supernaturall diuine true Christan and infallible Fayth to be vnderstood in that Tex't of the Apostle T is true Scotus alledges the words in particular proofe of Fayth acquir'd viz. of that Fayth which is gained by hearing of particular Preachers and depends only on their Authoritie But yet he there maintaines with all Diuines an absolute necessity of Fayth infused or supernaturall which as the Bishop himselfe here proues out of Canus must rest vpon some infallible motiue and consequently requires an infallible preaching to applye it sufficiently to vs which is all that A. C ' gloss imports Adde hereunto that acquired Fayth beeing according to the ordinary course of Gods Prouidence prerequired and antecedent to Fayth diuine and supernaturall as Canus likewise here teacheth it cannot in any sort be suppos'd to exclude it Lastly by an argument a fortiori 't is euidently concluded that the text ought to be extended to diuine and infallible Fayth as well as to humane and acquired For if wee cannot beleeue euen with naturall and acquired Fayth without a Preacher surely much less can wee beleeue with infus'd and supernaturall Fayth without one still speaking according to ordinary course which Preacher must also be infallible eyther in his owne person as all the Apostles were or as he deliuers the doctrine and performes the office committed to him by an infallible autority such as is that of the Church by whome euery particular Preacher is deputed to deliuer the doctrine which she holds I might vrge also the common consent of interpreters who expound the place of noe other Fayth but that by which Christians are iustify'd and sau'd which surely can be noe other but supernaturall and infused Fayth And this is most certain whateuer Biel out of his priuate opinion asserts to the contrary But wee haue stood longer vpon this subiect then the small importance of it requires since neither our nor A. C ' doctrine touching the infallibility of Generall Councils does at all depend vpon this text but is sufficiently prou'd by those other already alledged to that purpose 3. The Bishop in the next place tells A. C. he has ill lucke in fitting his conclusion to his premisses and his consequent to his antecedent The business is because he seems from the assistance of the holy Ghost to inferre infallibility But J answer our Aduersary hath not much better lucke so often to mistake and peruert A. C ' meaning For certainly A. C. does not deduce infallibility eyther of Church or Councils from any assistance of the holy Ghost whatsoeuer but from such assistance as is necessary for them both and from thence infallibility is rightly and inuincibly concluded as wee haue often shew'n by the grand inconueniencies which otherwise would vnauoydably follow both to Religion and the Church What therfore he vrges that the ancient Bishops and Fathers of the Church were assisted by Gods Spirit and yet not held to be of infallible creditt is beside the purpose A. C. making no such inference as the Relatour by this obiection supposes him to doe As for the question which A. C. asks if a whole Generall Council defining what is diuine truth be not of infallible Creditt what man in the world can be sayd to be infallible the Bishop seems rather to slight then satisfie it when he sayes I 'le make you a ready answer noe man no not the Pope himselfe No. Lett God and his word be true and euery man a lyar citing Scripture for it Rom. 3. 4. But what cannot Gods word be true vnless the Pope and Generall Councils be held fallible and subiect to erre when they define matters of Fayth were not those words of the Apostle true when both himselfe and all the rest of his Fellow-Apostles liu'd vpon earth and were infallible And if they were true then why not also now though the Pope and Generall Councils be held infallible Certainly A. Cs. question deseru'd a better answer then this or rather was vnanswerable by the Bishop without deserting his auowed principles For thus J argue ex concessis Jf Generall Councils defining what is diuine truth be not of infallible creditt noe man nor men in the world can be sayd to be so this the Bishop grants But then
requisite in his opinion wee should haue any infallible assurance at all viz. whether the Councill errs or errs not in such points or in which of them she does and in which she does not erre Where first good Reader obserue what J hinted aboue the Bishop doth not deny but a Generall Councill may erre in things absolutely necessary to Saluation seeing he here prescribes thee a rule how to know infallibly when such a Councill does erre in such matters and when not to witt Scripture the Creeds the fowre first Generall Councils and consent of the whole Church But I aske why doth he referre vs to the fowre first Generall Councils and the whole Church to know when a Generall Councill erres in things necessary to Saluation and when not Fyther the fowre first Generall Councills were infallible in their definitions or no if infallible why are not other Councills also infallible seeing Christ hath not made promise of infallibility to one Generall Councill more then to an other Jf not infallible how can J by their authority be infallibly assur'd that an after-Generall Councill hath err'd or doth erre in some things absolutely necessary to Saluation Againe what does he meane by the whole Church by whose authority he pretends wee may be infallibly sure when a Generall Councill erreth in things absolutely necessary If all particular persons that hold the Fundamentalls where shall I finde them what meanes can I possibly vse to be certainly assur'd of their testimony If only the generality of all particular Churches they are noe more the Whole Church then a Generall Councill is seeing all beleeuers make vp the true Church of Christ. Neither can I by the consent of the Whole Church only be infallibly assur'd whether some after-Councills definition be erroneous in matters Fundamentall For seeing the essence of the Church according to the Bishop consists in the beleefe of such points as he terms Fundamentall vnless J know before-hand all Fundamentalls how can I know what particular Churches or Assemblyes of Christians doe constitute the Whole Church How can J be certaine but that some particular Church whose iudgement J refuse may by beleeuing the point controuerted as truly Fundamentall be a part of the whole Church and some others whose testimony J embrace may by not-beleeuing the sayd point be no part of the Church whose consent J seeke I demand secondly how does this rule of the Bishop hold good The Scripture Creeds fowre first Generall Councills and the whole Church shall infallibly assure mee when after-Councills erre in defining Fundament all points Does the Scripture Creeds fowre first Generall Councils etc. particularly tell vs or giue vs any certaine and infallible rule by which wee may know when it is Fundamentall errour to contradict what they teach and when it is not or to know what and how much of the doctrine they containe is absolutely necessary to Saluation and all the rest only expedient and profitable Jf they doe wee request some of the Relatours friends to be so charitable to vs as to shew vs that rule or direct vs where to finde it for as yet wee Catholiques neuer heard of such a thing If they doe not how is it possible for vs to be infallibly assured by them when a posteriour Councill erres in one point and not in an other when it defines both of them for diuine truth by one and the same authority equally The Relatours answer therfore as to the first part of his disiunctiue which concerns Generall Councills erring in points Fundamentall is so manifestly vnsatisfactory that it may be iustly wonder'd how he could thinke it should giue satisfaction to that Querie of A. C. And as to what he affirm's in the latter part viz. that 't is not requisite to haue infallible assurance in points not absolutely necessary to Saluation our answer is wee haue fully prou'd the contrary Wee only demand here whether the determinate beleefe that such and such books for example the Epistle to the Hebrews the Epistle of St. Iames St. Iude etc. are diuine Scripture or the word of God be in the list of the Bishops absolutely-necessaryes or not He could not haue sayd they are without condemning a very great part of Orthodox Christians for three or fowre hundred years after Christ if St. Hierome and others say true and yet 't is certaine the Relatour does not only assert but earnestly endeauour to proue that wee ought to haue insallible assurance of this point Seeing therfore the Bishop pretends infallibly to beleeue that these books of Scripture are the true word of God and that he cannot beleeue this but for the Authority of the Church some ages after the Apostles eyther he must grant that our infallible beleefe may be grounded vpon an authority meerly fallible which is absurd and often denyed by himselfe or that the Church is infallible euen in points not absolutely necessary to Saluation His next period containes only a long and captious discourse touching the words one and the same authority vsed by A. C. in framing his demand to the Bishop it beeing euident to any man not vnwilling to see that when his Aduersary supposed a Council according to the Relatours opinion to define both truth and errour by one and the same authority equally he mean't precisely the authority of the Councill abstracting from any other whether of Scripture Tradition consent of Fathers or the like It is cleere I say from the subiect aboute which A. C. treahs that his meaning could be no other then this viz. that the sayd Councill in the supposed case intended to define and did actually define both the pretended falle article and the true one with sull conciliary authority and did as much exact the infallible beleefe of that as this by vertue of the power they had from Christ to determine such matters and the obligation that is vpon Christians to receiue and submitt to their determinations in such cases vnder paine of Anathema Now lett our Aduersaries if they can shew vs how 't is possible to be infallibly assur'd that a Councill erring in one doth not erre in the other point when she defines both by the same Authority in this sense that is by her own Authority precisely for example how a man may be infallibly assur'd that a Generall Councill err'd not in defining that there is Originall sinne as well as in defining that there is a Purgatory as well in defining that the Apocalipse is diuine Scripture as that the Books of Machabees are and once againe wee aske them in case a Generall Council defines any point of doctrine verily iudging it to be agreeable to Scripture how can our Aduersaries be infallibly sure that it is not so or that their contrary interpretation is better then that of so great and learned an Assembly of the Prelats of the Church To tell vs therfore and dispute the matter soe largily as he doth that there is not the same Authority
without defaulking of any part And did they not intend that the like should be done by continuall succession of Pastours in all ages of the Church for cuer And how can the Church performe this if she hath not sull and equall Authority to attest both the one and the other and to condemn all errour whatsoeuer contrary to them How can she be accounted in those respects the Pillar and Foundation of truth as 't is certain euen by the exposition of Protestants St. Paul doth style her 1. Tim. 3. 15. or how is she sayd to be a Faythfull Preseruer of that whole DEPOSITVM 1. Tim. 6. 20. committed to her charge as the fathers frequently profess and teach her to be J say how is it possible the Church should be accounted eyther a sure Foundation Faythfull Depositary Guardian or witness of all diuine truth pertaining to Religion as she is by Scripture and all Antiquity generally if eyther through ignorance and ouersight she her selfe might possibly happen to corrupt it as the Bishop with all Protestants supposes she may or that she wanted any necessary power and authority to prohibit them that would Whereas therfore the Bishop affirms that want of vnity and peace proceeds too often euen where Religion is pretended from men and their humours rather then from things and errours to be found in them J grant it to be very true in those that will not relie vpon the Churches iudgement and authority but vpon their own reason and interpretation of Scripture which is the practice of Protestants and all Heretiques before them and if the Bishops Adherents thinke it to be otherwise lett them fairly make it appeare that the disagreement which is at present 〈◊〉 the English-Protestant and Roman-Catholique Church proceeded not originally from the bad humours of English men as much as the disagreement betwixt the Prelaticall and Sectarian parties in the sayd Church of England proceeds not from the Prelats and their adherents but meerly from the Sectaries who it cannot be deny'd alledge scripture abundantly and accuse the English Prelaticall Church of errour and superstition both in doctrine discipline and worship no less then they accuse vs of the same faults 9. But the Relatour will now giue vs a reason why it cannot be necessary for the Church to haue power infallibly to determin points not-Fundamentall in Protestant sense although euen by his own supposition they be diuine truths and theyr opposite errours dangerous to soules His reason is because St. Paul tells vs 1. Cor. 11. 19. oportet Hoereses esse c. there must be Heresies whence he concludes 't is out of doubt Christ neuer left such an infallible assurance as is able to preuent them or such a mastering power in his Church as is able to ouer-awe them But J answer what consequence is here There must be 〈◊〉 there will vnauoydably be Heresies crgo the Church hath not full powre to condemne them and to vindicate the contrary truth To mee the contrary seemes farre more iustly and rightly concluded viz. that because there will be Heresies euer and anon springing vp amongst Christians therefore the Pastours of the Church haue and ought to haue all necessary power to obuiate their proceedings and to preserue the flocke of Christ in the integrity of true Fayth which as wee haue often shew'n cannot be done if the Pastours of the Church lawfully assembled in Generall Councills to that purpose should eyther themselues happen to crre or to determine the truth withless then absolute and vnquestionable certainty But as to the obiection it selfe the Bishop cleerly mistakes our meaning When wee say the Church hath power to preuent Schismes and Heresies it is not mean't that they shall not be at all but so as they shall not be without iust controule and censure so as they shall not so much as seeme lawfully and reasonably to be nor so farre preuaile by theyr beeing as to peruerte the true doctrine of the Church Heresies may be but the Faythfull members of the Church hauing due care of themselues and performing their duty well towards their lawfull Pastours shall be euer fully secured against their snares and none deceiued by them at least not vnto damnation or guilt of mortall sinne but such as through their own voluntary fault and negligence suffer themselues to be misted by them Could his Lordship possibly be ignorant that the Church susficiently preuents Heresies and Schismes on her part when she certainly declares the truth and rightly determins the matter about which Christians began to contend and to be diuided in opinion one from another when the duly censures and anathematizeth the contrary errour lastly when she vseth all lawfull and practicable meanes within her power to preuent and extirpate them This is preuention both necessary and also sufficient on the Churches part and this beeing done if the effect follow not it must not be ascribed to want of any spirituall power and authority in the Church but only to the incorrigible pride obstinacy and malice of her rebellious children which nothing but the hand of God can ouerrule and master A thing most cleere and manifest in all ciuill Common-wealth's prudently instituted wherein when seditions and rebellions happen to arise and they doe happen sometimes in the very best wise men doe not thinke 't is for want of any requisite power and authority in the chiefe Magistrate or state to command and compell all men to be obedient to lawes but that it proceeds from those vnauoydable distempers which by corruption and frailtie of humane nature are incident to mens mindes and which can neither be foreseen nor quelled in an instant by any power on earth J adde that the Relatours obiection oportet Haereses esse c. has as much force to proue the Church not infallible euen in points Fundamentall and absolutely necessary to Saluation and would exclude the necessity of any infallible power and authority in the Church to preuent errours contrary to such points which were repugnant euen to the Bishops own assertions For the words of St. Paul ther must be Heresies are as true of errours contrary to Fundamentall points as other and there will be Heresies more or less in all ages in matters absolutely necessary as well as in things not necessary Yea surely according to the more common principles and opinion of Protestants such errours only are properly to be esteem'd Heresies which are contrary to Fundamentall and absolutely necessary points in regard they say that sauing Fayth may consist with all other errours whatsoeuer So that if because Heresies must be or will be the Bishop will conclude there is neither infallible certaintie nor any meanes of infallibbe certainty in the Church for the knowing and determining the truth in such points as are contested by Heretiques as he doth most plainly and euidently pretend to conclude by his allegation of this text he must in consequence also confess there is noe infailible
erected into a Patriarchate or after as wee haue prou'd the Bishop of Romes Ecclesiasticall 〈◊〉 ouer all parts and Prouinces of Christendome THE LAST CHAPTER Seuerall other Mistakes of the Bishop with a conclusion of the whole worke ARGVMENT 1. St. Cyprians text Epist. 45. ad Cornelium touching the roote and matrix of the Catholique Church vindicated from the Bishops peruersions 2. All Charches in St. Cyprians bpiniony one by Communion with that of Rome 3. Tertullian of the same sentiment with St. Cyprian 4. The Bishops 〈◊〉 betwixt the Essence and Existence of the Church not pertinent 5. His 〈◊〉 touching the Ladies going to Church so persuaded in conscience as she was not 〈◊〉 6. Going to Protestant Churches in England neuer held by lawfull Catholiques 7. The Heretiques badge viz. pride and presumption of ones proper iudgement not well putt off by the Bishop 8. The same charge cannot be retorted vpon Catholiques in matters of Fayth 9. Catholiques maintaine the same succession to be a marke of the true Church which the Fathers did viz. the ioynt-succession of persons and doctrine 10. Stapleton not contrary to this nor to himselfe whateuer is pretended by the Bishop 11. Temporary Contestations about the Papacy no interruption of the Lawfull Succession of Popes 12. The Bishop standing to his principles cannot rid himselfe of A. C. Dilemma viz. of making 〈◊〉 noe iudge at all or euery man iudge for himselfe in Controuersies of Fayth 13. Infallibility the true Foundation loth of Church and Religion with the Authours 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and Prayer for the 〈◊〉 THe Bishop hath still a pieque against the Roman Church beeing euer willing to lessen as much as in him lyeth the respect which good Christians of ancient times may be thought to haue born towards that Sea Out of this humour it proceeds that he will not endure the Roman Sea should be styled the roote and matrix of the Church Catholique but to a voyde it takes occasion euen where he confesses none was giuen him by his Aduersary to make a long discourse of no less then eight or nine pages in folio only vpon a text of St. Cyprian which he calls indeed a difficult place that he might not seeme to want some reason for his tediousness but I presume an indifferent Reader hauing obseru'd the text and well weighed the Bishops comment vpon it will iudge it difficult in no other sense then that the Relatour found it somewhat a hard matter for him to disguise and peruert it from its true sense But a bad cause will plunge the best witts sometimes into difficulties and J am apt to thinke our Aduersarie in this digtession contends more then a little against what he could not but in his owne conscience see to be most probable 1. For first as to the truth of the storie the occasion of writing that Epistle wherein St. Cyprian is by vs suppos'd to style the Roman Church the ROOTE and MATRIX of the Church Catholique was not that which the Relatour setts down but very different from it The Relatour tells vs they were St. Cyprians own letters aboute which Cornelius Bishop of Rome expostulated with him and complain'd that they were not directed to himselfe as of right they ought to haue been but to the Roman Clergie whereas in truth St. Cyprian and his Colleagues had taken a resolution not to write at all to Rome by reason of the Schisme that was there 〈◊〉 till they had first heard from their Legate the Dishops Caldonius and Fertunatus whom they had sent on purpose to Rome to know the true state of affaires betwixt Cornelius the lawfull Bishop and 〈◊〉 the Schismatique But those letters were written by certain Priests and others of the African Clergie pertaining to the Diocess of Adrymettium where St. Cyprian happened to be at that time and in the absence also of the Bishop of the place This appeares by the very words of the Epistle it felse nor does St. Cyprian answer as the Bishop feignes him to doe to witt as owning or acknowledging the writing of those Letters himselfe or that they were sent with his knowledge but professes the thing was done out of ignorance of what himselfe and Colleagues had resolued and only by some in Africke during the absence of their Bishop Secondly as to the words wherby St. Cyprian professes to Gornelius that he for his part did exhort all that sayld out of Africke to Rome that they should acknowledge and embrace the ROOTE and matrix of the Catholique Church who can imagin any other thing should be mean't by them but that he exhorted such people when they came to Rome that they should ioyne themselues to the partie and communion of the lawfull Bishop of Rome because his Communion was the roote and matrix of the Church and haue nothing to doe with the Schismatiques The Bishop would haue vs thinke he mean't only to exhort them in generall to acknowledge and adhere to the vnity of the Catholique Church which though wee deny not but it may be in some sense term'd the roote and matrix of the Church yet surely in this place it can be thought little less then friuolous for St. Cyprian so especially to exhort those trauellers to acknowledge that vnity is the roote of the Church Beside what satisfaction or iust apologie could St. Cyprian thinke it would be to Cornelius already somewhat offended with him though by mistake for not duly acknowledging his Authority to tell him that he exhorted all people that came out of Africke to Rome that they should acknowledge vnity to be the roote of the Church or that they should keep the vnity of the Church in generall without specifying his communion or the communion of the lawfull Bishop of Rome in particular The acknowledgement then of the roote and matrix of the Church which St. Cyprian here meanes and exhorts good Christians to make and constantly stand to when they came to Rome hath doubtless something in it more speciall then this that is to say it must relate to that which euen by St. Cyprians own iudgement elsewhere deliuer'd is the roote and matrix of the Churches vnity to witt the lawfull Successour of St. Peter to whome the Church it selfe owes her vnity and aboute whome there was at that time dispute and controuersie and a doubt rais'd amonge Christians at Rome So that with very good reason St. Cyprian might exhort such as sayl'd 〈◊〉 to adhere to him and acknowledge him as beeing indeed the roote and matrix of Ecclesiasticall vnity as likewise to disown and reiect the partie they should finde auerse to him This indeed was a conuenient subiect of exhortation and well worthy of St. Cyprians charitie and zeale but that he should exhort them to any thing else in this place or noe more then the Relatour will seeme to thinke is wholy incredible But the Bishop conceiues it could not be St. Cyprians meaning and intention here to
late vnhappy times some of all other Religions in England oppos'd eyther his sacred Maiestie that now is or his Royall Father they only haue been all and euer Faythfull to them both therby shewing that the doctrine of Allegiance to their lawfull Soureigns is a necessary point of their beleefe and a part of that duty which not only interest and ends but Religion and conscience obliges them to pay The Relatour would haue vs obserue that the Church of England is between two factions as between two mill-stones like to be grown'd to powder pag. 15. Epist. meaning by one of these Catholiques for whome alone I haue vndertaken to plead The Bishop here seemes to complaine of persecution himselfe as well as wee but with farre less reason as is euident seeing wee Catholiques if wee were so ill minded haue no other instruments to persecute withall but our tongues and our pens which draw noe bloud and in the vse whereof I presume no indifferent man well confidering what hath passed both from the pulpitts and presses of our Aduersaries will thinke that in any thing they fall short of vs eyther for lowdness or passion 'T is no such idle Querie as the Relatour would haue it thought pag. 16 Epist. but a very pertinent one to demand where the Protestant or this pretended Church of England was before Luther For haue any Protestants as yet been able to shew a visible Church in the world before Luthers time professing the doctrine which distinguishes them from vs 'T is true they haue been often call'd vpon to this purpose but haue euer any of them done it was the question euer answer'd categorically or otherwise then by tergiuersation and shifting it off with ambiguioyes of their owne fiction as the Relatour himselfe for example here doth by telling vs their Church was there where ours is now one and the same Church still noe doubt of that one in substance but not one in condition of state c. Is this to answer categorically wee doe not enquire whether or noe or in what feigned sense theirs and ours may be sayd to be one and the same Church the following treatise doth sufficiently confute that pretense But our enquirie is whether there were a Ptotestant Church before Luthers time there where our Church now is I say a Protestant Church be it in name or thing that is a visible Society of Christians openly Protesting against the pretended errours and superstitions of our Church and beleeuing the doctrine which Protestants now beleeue and hold in opposition to our Church This neither the Bishop nor any body else was euer able to proue Wee Catholiques therfore doe not only doubt but absolutely deny that there was any Protestant Church or any Church which the Bishop can properly and truly call his Church or their Church speaking of Protestants before Luthers time not only there where ours now is but in any other part or corner of the world Neither is their Church and ours one and the same Church in any other sense then what is meerly fictitious and arbitrary and wherby all Heretiques whatsoeuer may if they will pretend to be one and the same Church with the Catholique Nor is it possible for Protestants to confute them seeing they can bring no conuincing argument to proue that such errours are more destructiue of the Foundation then those which they account damnable and to shake the very Foundation of Christian Religion Who knowes not that wee Catholiques differ from Protestants in the Sacraments which certainly are of the substance of Religion if any thing be and by our Aduersaries own principles and definition of a Church pertaine to the Churches essence Wee differ from them in the matter of Sacrifice which they reiect but wee hold and beleeue to be the most principall and solemne action of all that pertaines to Religious worship Wee differ from them also in many other points of maine concernment to the honour of God and Saluation of soules They charge vs and wee them errours directly derogatory to Gods honour directly contrary to divine Reuelation directly contrary to the institution and ordinance of Christ and repugnant to Saluation How then are wee one and the same Church or how can Protestants pretend to become members of the Catholique Church 〈◊〉 s they maintaine principles or articles of doctrine of such high concernment in Religion contrary to the beleefe of the whole Catholique Church in so many ages before Luther What he layes to our charge Epist. pag. 17. of crying vp the Church aboue Scripture and that so farrae as to indanger the beleefe of it with a great part of men will be abundantly shew'n in the following discourse to be a calumny of the greatest magnitude At present wee only protest against it as such and auerre with himselfe that the Scripture where it is plaine should guide the Church and the Church where there is doubt or difficulty should expound Scripture Only to that Prouiso which he adds touching the Churches exposition of Scripture viz. that shee may reuise what in any case hath slipt from her wee cannot allow it till wee certainly know his meaning For if by reuising what hath shipt from her he mean't to intimate as 't is most probable he did that the Church should erre in any thing shee defines to be beleeu'd 't is his own errour to affirm it as wee shall proue hereafter if any thing else wee meddle not with it Whereas he obserues Epist. pag. 18. that many rigid Professo urs haue turn'd Roman Catholiques and in that turn haue been more Iesuited then any other and that such Romanists as haue chang'd from them haue for the most part quite leap't ouer the meane and been as rigid the other way to the first part of his obseruation I assent reason it selfe teaching it to be true For the streames of that zeale which formerly wrought extrauagantly in them by reason of their ignorance and errour beeing now cleer'd and turn'd the right way make the Professours of it still feruorous for that which is good and no less vehemently auerted from what they know to be ill But of the second part I cannot approue it beeing so contrary to all experience which shew's that the desertours of our Religion seldome become so zealous in the contrary way as the Relatour pretends nay reason it selfe is against it For commonly speaking the motiues of their turn are eyther the preseruation of their estates the obtaining of some other wordly and temporall ends or lastly some voluptuous pleasure of which in the way of Catholique Religion they finde themselues debarr'd And hereof this is an assured Argument that when these motiues cease as at the howre death they all doe many of them through the mercy of God returne from whence they had departed Whereas on the other side I neuer yet heard of the man who professing the Catholique Fayth in time of health desired in sickness to dye a Protestant The Relatour
defined by the Church were Fundamental or Necessary to Salvation that is whether all those Truths which are sufficiently propos'd to any Christian as Defined by the Church for matter of Faith can be disbelieved by such a Christian without Mortal and Damnable Sin which unrepented destroyes Salvation Now Points may be necessary to Salvation two wayes The one absolutely by reason of the matter they contain which is so Fundamentally necessary in it self that not onely the disbelief of it when it is sufficiently propounded by the Church but the meer want of an express Knowledge and Belief of it will hinder Salvation and those are such Points without the express belief whereof no man can be saved which Divines call necessary necessitate medij others of this kinde they call necessary necessitate praecepti which all men are commanded to seek after and expresly believe so that a Culpable Ignorance of them hinders Salvation although some may be saved with Invincible ignorance of them And all these are absolutely necessary to be expresly believed either necessitate medij or necessitate praecepti in regard of the matter which they contain But the rest of the Points of Faith are necessarily to be believed necessitate praecepti onely conditionally that is by all such to whom they are sufficiently propounded as defined by the Church which necessity proceeds not precisely from the material object or matter contained in them but from the formall object or Divine Authority declared to Christians by the Churches definition Whether therefore the points in question be necessary in the first manner or no by reason of their precise matter yet if they be necessary by reason of the Divine Authority or formal object of Divine Revelation sufficiently declared and propounded to us they will be Points Fundamental that is necessary to Salvation to be believed as we have shewed Fundamental must here be taken 4. The truth of the question then taken in this sense is a thing so manifest that his Lordship not knowing how to deny it with any shew of probability thought it his onely course to divert it according to his ordinary custome by turning the Difficulty which onely proceeded upon a Fundamentality or necessity derived from the formall Object that is from the Divine Authority revealing that point to the materiall Object that is to the importance of the matter contained in the point revealed which is a plain Fallacy in passing à sensu formali ad materialem Now I shew the difficulty being understood as it ought to be of the formall object whereby points of Faith are manifested to Christians That all points defined by the Church as matter of Faith are Fundamentall that is necessary to Salvation to be believed by all those to whom they are sufficiently propounded to be so defined by this Argument Whosoever refuses to believe any thing sufficiently propounded to him for a Truth revealed from God commits a sin damnable and destructive of Salvation But whosoever refuses to believe any point sufficiently propounded to him for defined by the Church as matter of Faith refuses to believe a thing sufficiently propounded to him for a Truth revealed from God Ergo Whosoever refuses to believe any point sufficiently propounded to him for defined by the Church as matter of Faith commits a sinne damnable and destructive of Salvation The Major is evident For to refuse to believe Gods revelation is either to give God the lye or to doubt whether he speak Truth or no. The Minor I prove from this supposition For though his Lordship say he grants it not yet for the present he sayes that though it were supposed he should grant that the Church or a lawful General Council cannot erre yet this cannot down with him that all Points even so defined were Fundamental that is as we have proved necessary to Salvation Supposing therefore that the Church and a lawful General Council be taken in this occasion for the same thing as he affirms they are saying in the beginning of num 3. pag. 27. We distinguish not betwixt the Church in general and a General Council which is her representative and admitting this he proceeds in his argument Supposing then that the Church in a General Council cannot erre I prove the Minor thus Whosoever refuses to believe that which is testified to be revealed from God by an Authority which cannot erre refuses to believe that which is revealed from God But whosoever refuses to believe that which is defined by the Church as matter of Faith refuseth to believe that which is testified to be revealed from God by an Authority which cannot erre Ergo Whosoever refuseth to believe that which is defined by the Church as matter of Faith refuseth to believe that which is revealed from God The Major is evident ex terminis For if the Authority which testifies it is revealed from God cannot erre that which it testifies to be so revealed is so revealed The Minor is the Bishops supposition viz. That the Church in a General Council cannot erre as is proved Ergo c. And this I hope will satisfie any ingenuous Reader that the forementioned Proposition is fully proved taking Fundamental for necessary to Salvation as Mr. Fisher took it Yet to deal freely with the Bishop even taking Fundamental in a general way as he in this present Conference mistakes it for a thing belonging to the Foundation of Religion it is also manifest that all Points defined by the Church are Fundamental by reason of that formal object or Infallible Authority propounding them though not alwayes by reason of the matter which they contain Whoever deliberately denies or doubts of any one Point proposed and declared as a Divine Infallible Truth by the Authority of the Catholique Church cannot for that time give Infallible credit to any other Point delivered as a Divine Infallible Truth by the Authority of the same Church For whoever gives not Infallible credit to the Authority of the Church in any one Point cannot give Infallible credit to it in any other because it being one and the same authority in all points deferveth one and the same credit in all And therefore if it deferve not Infallible credit in any one it deserveth not Infallible credit in any other Now I subsume But he that believes no Point at all with a Divine Infallible Faith for the Authority of the Catholique Church erres Fundamentally Ergo c. This Subsumptum is evident For if he believe none at all he neither believes God nor Christ nor Heaven nor Hell c. with an Infallible Divine Christian Faith and thereby quite destroys the whole foundation of Religion And seeing there is no means left to believe any thing with a Divine Infallible Faith if the Authority of the Catholique Church be rejected as erroneous or fallible for who can believe either Creed or Scripture or unwritten Tradition but upon her Authority It is manifest that if the Church be disbelieved in any one point
Infallible Assent but if the Church be not Infallible in her Definitions of Superstructures no Superstructure can be believed with an In fallible Assent Ergo if the Church be fallible in her Definition of Superstructures no Superstructure can be a Point of Faith The Major is granted both by his Lordship and those Protestants who coin this objection The Minor is already proved in the former Argument For there is no means left to believe any point with an Infallible Assent if the Authority of the Church defining those points to be believed be fallible Neither can he avoid the force of this Argument by replying that Scripture believed to be the word of God by the introducing authority of the Church and its own light may be a formal object and reason of an infallible Assent to such superstructures as are expressed in it though the authority of the Church be fallible in defining them For first we will shew hereafter that we can have no infallible certainty that any canon of Scripture is the word of God but onely by the authority of the Catholique Church declaring it infallibly to us Secondly there will be no infallible means to know what Superstructures are contained sufficiently in Scripture what not if the Church can erre in that declaration Thirdly seeing as we shall prove hereafter many superstructures are not expresly and some not at all contained in Scripture how can we believe them with an infallible assent if the Church can erre in the definition of them And this shall serve for the present to remove this objection as Implicatory and Chymerical in it self when we meet with it hereafter it shall be further satisfied As concerning those things which the Church either doth or can define which the Relatour hints at pag. 27. whether they must be in Scripture at least implicitely or whether they may be out of Scripture though not so entirely as perchance he would inferre them to be but deduced from thence or making for the clearer explication of that which is contained in Scripture concerning this I say Catholique Divines agree not and it concerns not our present purpose to dispute Neither will I discourse much of the Difference between the Church in general and a General Council The first containing the Head and all the Members of the Church the latter onely the Head and principal Members thereof although the latter represent the former I say I will not discourse much about this Difference because without a further distinction which the Bishop would have it is as well known what we mean when we say The Church cannot erre in defining matters of Faith as when we say A General Council cannot erre in defining them For no man will conceive that we put this power of Defining in the common people which were nothing else but to bring all things to confusion but we place it in the Prelates and Pastours of the Church assembled together when they may write in Capital Letters what was written by the Primitive Church as we read in Holy Writt IT HATH SEEMED GOOD UNTO THE HOLY GHOST AND TO US Acts 15. 28. Now to come a little closer to the point we finde his Lordship to say pag. 28. That although he should grant that a General Council cannot erre yet this cannot down with him that all points even so defined are Fundamental For Deductions are not prime and native Principles nor are Superstructures Foundations But this Difficulty of his would not have risen had he considered the distinction of Fundamental and not-Fundamental which Catholique Divines admit in the material objects of Faith For in the manner before declared we grant some are prime and Native Principles others Deductions and Superstructures But this we stand to that all points defined by the Church are Fundamental reductivè that is points whereto when we know them to be defined we cannot deny our Assent by denying or doubting of them without destroying the formal object of Faith by taking away all Authority from the Church whereby we may be Infallibly assured what God has revealed to be believed by Christians 7. For answer to the rest in that page you will finde enough in my discourse a little before of Fundamentals and not-Fundamentals let us now examine those words of his pag. 29. That which is FUNDAMENTAL in the Faith of Christ is a Rock immoveable and can never be varied Never Therefore if it be Fundamental after the Church hath Defined it it was Fundamental before the Definition All this may be granted if rightly understood For whatsoever is to be believed as a matter of Faith by the Definition of the Church was believed before though not expresly Wherefore Implicite Faith of all may be said to be Fundamental but Explicite Faith of that which is onely now defined is not required before the Definition Therefore the Christian to use the Bishops phrase hath whereon to rest as not being bound to believe more expresly then is declared by the Church to be revealed from God Therefore the Church makes not the Implicite Faith Fundamental but the Explicite Faith it maketh Fundamental When I say Implicite I mean not a point so implicitely believed that none before might have Explicite belief of it but such points as were not generally known to be certainly revealed though they might be known to some of greater learning and knowledge which by the Churches Definition are Authentically attested to have been revealed from God after which Declaration there arises an obligation to all who know they are defined as such by the Church to believe them Explicitely Now what we have here said may be granted to the Church without giving her power to make new Articles of Faith 8. For to this it is sufficient that she declares those which were so before in themselves though not so well known to be such as alwayes to oblige them to believe them explicitely who are bound to it when they know them to be revealed from God by the Churches Definition And by this time I hope you finde that Bellarmin speakes truth and wrongs not the Catholique Church For in those places he onely sayes that the Definitions of the Church give no strength or greater certainty to the revelation of God that being wholly impossible to be done for nothing can be more certain then is the revelation of God who is Truth it self But withal he teaches even in the places cited that the Definitions of the Church make it known to us that such and such a point is an object of Divine Faith and that so certainly that she cannot erre in it which is all we either say or need to say For though the Church makes the Divine revelation no certainer then it is in it self yet she makes us more certain that such a point is a Divine revelation As a faithful and honest Servant telling one that his Master being a man of great and entire credit said such a thing gives no strength to his
disputes which properly and directly question matters fully establish't by the Authority of the Church His Lordship therefore finding his first solution to fail him recurrs to a second much weaker then the first For granting the Church to be the foundation whereof St. Augustin spake he denyes it to follow thence that all points defined by the Church are Fundamental in Faith But against this I thus argue out of St. Augustin All those points the disbelief whereof shakes the Foundation are Fundamental in Faith But all the points establish't by full Authority of the Church that is defined by the Church are such as the disbelief of them shakes the foundation Ergo all points establish't by full Authority of the Church that is Defined by the Church are Fundamental in Faith If he distinguish the Major that they shake some foundation of our Religion but not every foundation I disprove him thus Whoever shakes the foundation St. Augustin speaks of which is the Church shakes consequentially every foundation of our Religion This I have above proved because nothing can be infallibly believed when the Churches foundation is shaken But the denial of points defined by the Church shakes the Foundation St. Augustin speaks of that is the Church as the Bishop now supposes foundation to be taken Ergo the disbelief of points defined by the Church shakes every foundation of Religion His proving that some things are founded which are not Fundamental in Faith is very true for St. Pauls Steeple is well founded yet is no Fundamental point in Faith but as little to the present purpose as can be for who ever asfirmed that all things founded even upon the Authority of the Church are Fundamental in Faith and as little concludes that which follows about Church Authority For I have already proved that the Authority of the Catholique Church in defining matters of Faith whereof onely we now treat as it is infallibly assisted by the Holy Ghost is either Divine in it felf to wit as informed with that Assistance or so necessary for the giving infallible assent to Divine Revelation that no man rejecting it can give an infallible assent to any point of Christian Faith For seeing upon that Authority only we are infallibly certified that the Articles of our Faith are revealed from God if in any thing we oppugne the firmness of that Authority we cannot believe infallibly that any one of them is revealed from God Though therefore it were granted that Church-Definitive Authority were not simply Divine yet is it so necessary to salvation that if it be rejected it destroyes salvation which is to be Fundamental in our present debate CHAP. 3. A Continuation of Fundamentals or Necessaries to Salvation ARGUMENT 1. All Definitions of the Catholique Church concerning Doctrine Infallible and by many of the learned held Divine 2. One Text of St. Augustin shamefully abused three several wayes 3. NO MANS opinion confuted by his Lordship Bellarmin miscited 4. The Pope alwayes included in the Church and Councils 5. A. C's words cited by halves 6. How the Churches Definition is said to be her Foundation 7. A. C. corrupted the second time 8. Vincentius Lirinensis falsified thrice at least 9. Stapleton and Bellarmin good Friends notwithstanding the Bishops endeavour to make them jarre IN the first place we grant what is here set down viz. that Things may be founded upon humane Authority and be very certain yet not Fundamental in the Faith for we say nothing that hath any shadow of contradicting this But our Assertion is that those Things are not to be opposed which are made firm by full Authority of the Church because this is according to St. Augustin to shake the Foundation Therefore all things made firm by the full Authority Definition Declaration or Determination use what tearm you please of the Church are Fundamental to wit in respect of the formal object of Gods revelation contained in them as we have often said 1. Now concerning what is added that full Church-Authority when it is at full Sea is not simply Divine I will not dispute with his Lordship whether it be or no because it is sufficient that such Authority be infallible For if it be infallible it cannot propose to us any thing as revealed by God but what is so revealed So that to dispute against this Authority is in effect to take away all Authority from Gods Revelation we having no other absolute certainty that This or That is revealed by God but onely the Infallibility of the Church proposing or attesting it unto us as revealed Whence also it follows that to doubt dispute against or deny any thing that is proposed by the infallible Authority of the Church is to doubt dispute against and deny that which is Fundamental in Faith This Discourse may be granted I say and yet the Church be denyed to be of Divine Authority notwithstanding that Infallible and Divine seem to many great Divines to be tearms Convertible And Stapleton whom the Bishop cites in the Margin is farre from denying it as would have better appeared if his words had been fairly cited For I finde him thus to write Si quaeratur quare Ecclesia est veritatis tam certa testis respondemus quia DEUS PER ILLAM loquitur If it be asked why the Church is so certain a witness of Truth we answer because God speaks by her Thus he Now if God speaks by the Church certainly she is of Divine Authority The same doctrine we finde elsewhere taught by him Deum per Ecclesiam loqui non ex solo Ecclesiae testimonio sed ex ipsis maximè Scripturis Fidei Symbolo ex communi omnium Christianorum conceptione certò constat That God speaks by the Church is most certain not onely by the Testimony of the Church but by the Scriptures themselves the Greed and the common perswasion of Christians The Bishop indeed grants thus much to the Church that no erring Disputant may be endured to shake the Foundation which the Church in general Councils layes yet he adds that plain Scripture with evident sense or a full demonstrative Argument must have room where a wrangling and erring disputant may not be allowed it Must have room that is must be allowed to shake the Foundation which the Church in General Councils layes For that is the necessary sense of his words An Assertion truly worthy of a Protestant Primate But I shall not here insist upon the manifold inconveniences of it I onely tell his Lordship at present that it begs the question and supposes what never was nor ever will be proved viz. that there can be plain Scripture in the true sense thereof or a full Demonstrative Argument brought against the Definition of a lawfull Generall Council We deny that any such case can happen or that the Definitions of a General Council in points of Faith can ever be so ill founded 2. Here therefore if we observe it the
object of Faith Fundamentals from not Fundamentals In this sense a Superstructure may be said to be exceeding firme and close joyn'd to a sure foundation but not Fundamental But here his Lordship misconceives or rather misalledges A. C's Argument For it is not as he frames it All points defined are made firme ergo all points defined are Fundamental but thus All points defined are made firme by the full Authority of the Church ergo all points defined are Fundamental And his reason is because when any thing is made firme by the full Authority of the Church it is so firme that it cannot be denyed without shaking the whole foundation of Religion and consequently is Fundamental 6. But the Bishop proceeds further and makes this Argument Whatsoever is Fundamental in the Faith is Fundamental to the Church which is one by the unity of Faith Therefore if every thing defined by the Church be Fundamental in the Faith then the Churches Definition is the Churches foundation and so upon the matter the Church can lay her own foundation and then the Church must be in her absolute and perfect being before so much as her foundation is laid This Argument will lose all its force by putting the Reader in minde of the Distinction between Fundamentals and not Fundamentals which we admitted in the material object of Faith for if this be reflected on there will be a foundation for the Church without supposing her to be in perfect being before her foundation be laid We have often declared what we understood by Fundamental viz. That to which we cannot refuse our assent by denying or doubting of it when it is proposed to us by the Church as a matter of Faith without damnation and without destroying the formal object of Faith and without making our selves during that deliberate doubting or denying uncapable of believing any thing with Divine and Supernatural Faith For surely whatever is of this nature must needs be Fundamental in Religion So that we admit the distinction of Fundamentals and not Fundamentals in respect of the material object of Faith but not in respect of the formal that is as we have often said some matters of Faith are more universally necessary to be expresly known and believed by all then others and yet the Authority revealing that is God and declaring them infallibly to be revealed that is the Church is truly Fundamental in both As in the Scripture it self this Text John 1. And God was the word according to the matter it contains viz. the Divinity of our Saviour is a Fundamental point universally to be known and believed expresly to Salvation and that St. Paul left his Cloak at Troas according to the matter it contains is no Fundamental point nor of any necessity to Salvation to be universally known and believed expresly yet the formal object revealing both these truths being the Authority of the Holy Ghost is equally Fundamental in both and doubtless if any one to whom it is as clearly propounded to be affirmed in Scripture that St. Paul left his Cloak at Troas as that it is affirmed in Scripture that the word was God should yet deny or doubt of the first he could neither be saved so long as he remained in that misbelief nor believe the second with divine infallible Faith as all Christians both Catholiques and Protestants must grant Had this been well considered by his Lordship we should not have been forced to so frequent repetitions of the same Doctrine The Bishop thinks he has got a great advantage by pressing A. C. to this That the Churches Definition is the Churches Foundation But what absurdity is it to grant that the Definition of the Church teaching is the foundation of the Church taught or the Definition of the Church representative is the foundation of the Church diffusive who can doubt but the Pastours in all ages preserving Christian people from being carried away with every winde of Doctrine Ephes. 4. are a foundation to them of constancy in Doctrine were not the Apostles in their times who were Ecclesia docens by their Doctrine and Decrees a foundation to the Church which was taught by them Doth not St. Paul expresly affirm it Superaedificati supra fundamentum Apostolorum c. Did not the Bishop just now pag. 34. except the Apostles as having in their Definitions more Authority then the Church had after their times yea even so much as was sufficient to make their Definitions Fundamental and the opposing of them destructive of the Foundation of Religion their Authority being truly Divine which he sayes that of the Church after them was not Now this doctrine of the Bishop supposed I urge his own Argument against himself thus Whatever is Fundamental in the Faith is Fundamental to the Church which is one by the unity of Faith Therefore if every thing Defined by the Church in the time of the Apostles be Fundamental in the Faith then the Churches Definition in the Apostles time is the Churches foundation and so upon the matter the Church in their time could lay her own foundation and then the Church must have been in absolute and perfect being before so much as her foundation was laid Who sees not here how the Bishop fights against himself with his own weapons and destroyes his own Positions by his own Arguments And whatever may be answered for him will satisfie his Argument in defence of us Now the answer is plain to any one who hath his eyes open for the Prime foundation of the Church are the Doctrines delivered by our Saviour and inspired by the Holy Ghost to the Apostles whereby it took the first being of a Church and the Prime foundation to the insuing Church after the Apostles is the most certain Assistance of the Holy Ghost promised by our Saviour to his Church By these two Prime foundations the Church is in being and so continues the Definitions of the Church grounded in these are a secondary foundation whereby Ecclesia docens the Church teaching established upon that promised assistance of the Holy Ghost fundat Ecclesiam doctam founds and establishes in every age the Church taught in the true Faith 7. But what shall we say in defence of A. C whom we finde blamed for these words That not onely the PRIMA CREDIBILIA or prime Articles of Faith but all that which so pertains to Supernatural Divine and Infallible Faith as that thereby Christ doth dwell in our hearts c. is the foundation of the Church The answer is these are not the precise words of A. C. and therefore no wonder if the Bishop easily confute him whom he either mistakes or makes to speak as himself pleases A. C's words are these By the word FUMDAMENTAL is understood not onely the PRIMA CREDIBILIA or Prime Principles which do not depend upon any former grounds for then all the Articles of the Creed were not as the Bishop and Dr. White say they are FUNDAMENTAL points but
that God spake them which we could never elevate our hearts to believe with Divine Faith but by the Testimony of Gods Church which gives us a full assurance of his Revelation Thus then the Church being supernaturally Infallible in all her Definitions of Faith will be a sufficient ground to ascertain us of those Holy writings which God by unwritten Tradition revealed to the Church in time of the Apostles to be his written word For if her Definition herein be absolutely infallible then what she defines as reveal'd from God to be his written word is undoubtedly such insomuch that Christians being irrefregably assured thereof by the Churches Infallible declaration believe this Article with Divine Faith because revealed from God who cannot deceive them that Revelation being the onely formal object into which they resolve their Faith and the Churches Assurance the ground to perswade them that it is infallibly a Divine Revelation or Tradition The Churches Definition therefore is like Approximation in the working of natural causes to wit a necessary condition prerequired to their working by their own natural force yet is it self no cause but an application onely of the efficient cause to the subject on which it works seeing nothing can work immediately on what is distant from it Thus Gods Revelations delivered to the Church without writing were and are the onely formal cause of our assent in Divine Faith but because they are as it were distant from us having been delivered that is revealed so many ages past they are approximated or immediately applyed to us by the Infallible Declaration of the present Church which still confirming by her doctrine and practice what was first revealed makes it as firmly believed by us as it was by the Primitive Christians to whom it was first revealed So a Common-wealth by still maintaining practising and approving the Laws enacted in its first Institution makes them as much observ'd and esteem'd by the people in all succeeding Ages for their Primitive Laws as they were by those who liv'd in the time of their first Institution Hence it appears our Faith rests onely upon Gods immediate Revelation as its formal object though the Churches voice be a condition so necessary for its resting thereon that it can never attain that formal object without it By which Discourse the Bishops Argument is solv'd as also his Text out of Aristotle For seeing here is no Scientifical proof per principia intrinseca there can be no necessary and natural Connexion of Principles evidencing the Thing proved as is required in Demonstrative Knowledge the thing it self which is believed remaining still obscure and all the Assurance we have of it depending on the Authority of Him that testifies it unto us Lastly hence are solved the Authorities of Canus cited also by his Lordship who onely affirms what I have here confessed viz. That our Faith is not resolv'd into the Authority of the Church as the formal object of it and that of pag. 65. where he contends that the Church gives not the Truth and Authority to the Scriptures but onely teaches them with Infallible Certainty to be Canonical or the undoubted Word of God c. the very same thing with what I here maintain The Churches Authority then being more known unto us then the Scriptures may well be some reason of our admitting them yet the Scriptures still retain their Prerogative above the Church For being Gods Immediate Revelation they require a greater respect and reverence then the meer Tradition of the Church Whence it is likewise that our Authours do here commonly distinguish Two Sorts of Certainty the one 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the other ex parte subjecti The first proceeds from the Clearness of the Object the other from the Adhesion as Philosophers call it of the Will which makes the Understanding stick so close to the Object that it cannot be separated from it This latter kinde of Certainty hath chiefly place in Faith a thing unknown to Aristotle Whence it is that when we believe we do adhere more firmly to the Articles of Faith then to any Principle whatsoever though evident to natural reason which firme Adhesion of ours is grounded partly on the Greatness and Nobleness of the Object and partly on the importance of the matter which is such that our Salvation depends upon it For that Immediate Revelation namely the Scripture being in it self of so much greater Worth and Dignity then the Churches meer Tradition doth worthily more draw our affection then the other notwithstanding the other be more known to us and the Cause of our admitting his Thus we have shew'n that we hold not the Churches Definition for the formal object of Faith as the Relatour by disputing so much against it would seem to impose on us though our present Faith 't is true relyes upon it as an Infallible Witness both of the written and unwritten word of God which is the Formal Object Wherefore when we say we believe the Catholique Church we profess to believe not onely the Things which she teacheth but the Church her self so teaching as an Infallible witness and the contrary we shall never believe till it be prov'd otherwise then by saying as the Bishop here does it were no hard thing to prove By what hath been said it appears that there is no Devise or Cunning at all as the Relatour would have it thought of us either in taking away any thing due to the Fathers Councils or Scripture or in giving too much to the Tradition of the present Church For we acknowledge all due respect to the Fathers and as much to speak modestly as any of our Adversaries party But they must pardon us if we preferre the general Interpretation of the present Church before the result of any mans particular Phansie As for Scripture we ever extoll it above the Definitions of the Church yet affirm it to be in many places so obscure that we cannot be certain of its true sense without the help of a living Infallible Judge to determine and declare it which can be no other then the Present Church And what we say of Scripture may with proportion be applyed to Ancient General Councils For though we willingly submit to them all yet where they happen to be obscure in matters requiring Determination we seek the Assistance and Direction of the same living Infallible Rule viz. The Tradition or the Sentence of the present Church This being the Substance of our Doctrine concerning the Resolution of Faith as we have osten intimated 't is evident the cunning of the Device the Bishop speaks of is none of ours but his own while he falsly chargeth us that we finally resolve all Authorities of the Fathers Councils and Scriptures into the Authority of the present Roman Church whereas in points of Faith we ever resolve them finally into Gods word or Divine Revelation though we must of necessity repair to the Catholick Church to have them Infallibly testified unto us But
the Bishop thought this injury not great enough unless he redoubled it by any additional false Imputation of other two absurdities which he avers to follow evidently from our doctrine To the first viz. That we ascribe as great Authority if not greater to a part of the Catholique Church as we do to the whole I answer there follows no such thing from any Doctrine of ours but from his Lordships wilfully-mistaken Notion of the Catholique Church which he most desperately extends to all that bear the name of Christians without exception of either Schismatiques or Heretiques that so he might be sure to include himself within her Pale and make the Reader absurdly believe that the Roman Church taken in her full latitude is but a 〈◊〉 or Parcel of the Catholique Church believed in the Creed This indeed to use his Lordships phrase is full of Absurdity in Nature in Reason in all things For it is to pretend an Addition of Integral parts to a Body already entire in all its Integrals seeing the Roman Church taken in the sense it ought to be as comprising all Christians that are in her Communion is the sole and whole Catholique Church as is evident in Ecclesiastical History which clearly shews throughout all Ages that none condemn'd of Heresie or Schisme by the Roman Church were ever accounted any part of the Catholique Church And this I would have prov'd at large had his Lordship done any more then barely suppos'd the contrary If any man shall object that the Bishop charges the absurdity upon us in respect of the Roman Church that we ascribe as great Authority if not greater to a part of it as we do to the whole viz. In our General Councils I answer that is so far from being an absurdity that it were absurd to suppose it can be otherwise which the Objecter himself will clearly fee when he considers that the like must needs be granted even in Civil Governments For instance the Parliament of England is but a handful of men compar'd with the whole Nation yet have they greater Authority in order to the making or repealing of Laws then the whole Nation were they met together in a Body Men Women and Children which would produce nothing but an absolute confusion The Application is so easie I leave it to the Objecter himself to make The second accusation which the Bishop layes to our charge is this That in our Doctrine concerning the Infallibility of our Church our proceeding is most unreasonable in regard we will not have recourse to Texts of Scripture exposition of Fathers Propriety of Language Conference of Places c. but argue that the Doctrine of the present Church of Rome is true and Catholique because she professeth it to be such which sayes he is to prove Idem per Idem Whereas truly we most willingly embrace and have frequent recourse to all the Bishops mentioned helps and that with much more Candour then Protestants can with any ground of reason pretend to considering their manifold wrestings both of Scripture and Fathers when they either urge them against us or endeavour to evade their clear Testimonies for us Neither are we in any danger of committing a Circle or proving Idem per Idem because his Lordship sees not how we can possibly winde our selves out The business is not so insuperably difficult in our Doctrine For if we be asked how we know the Church to be Infallible our last answer is not as he feigns because she professes her self to be such but we know her to be Infallible by the Motives of Credibility which sufficiently prove her to be such So the Prophets Christ and his Apostles were in their time known to be Infallible Oracles and Teachers of Truth by the like signs and Motives onely this difference there is that these viz. Christ and his Apostles c. confirming their Doctrine gave Infallible Testimony that what they taught was the Immediate Revelation and Word of God whereas the Motives which confirme the Declarations and Authority of the Church do onely shew that she Infallibly delivers to us the same Revelations I mean the same for sense and substance of Doctrine which the other received immediately from God And that to rest in this manner upon the Authority of the present Church in the Resolution of our Faith is not to prove Idem per Idem as the Bishop falsly imputes to us I clearly shew by two several Instances which even those of his party must of necessity allow 5. The first Instance is of the Church in time of the Apostles For who sees not that a Sectary might in those dayes have argued against the Apostolical Church by the very same Method his Lordship here uses against the present Catholique Church might he not have taxed those Christians of unreasonable proceeding in their belief and have set it forth as the Bishop does thus For if you ask them why they believe the whole Doctrine of the Apostles to be the sole True Catholique Faith their answer is because it is agreeable to the Doctrine of Christ. If you ask them how they know it to be so they will produce the Words Sentences and Works of Christ who taught it But if you ask a third time by what means they are assured that those Testimonies do indeed make for them and their cause or are really the Testimonies and Doctrine of Christ they will not then have recourse to those Testimonies or doctrine but their final answer is they know it to be so because the present Apostolique Church doth witness it And so by consequence prove Idem per Idem Thus the Sectary By which it is clear that the Bishops objection against the present Roman Church wherein he would seem to make a discovery of her Corruptions and Politique Interests is equally applyable to the Primitive Apostolique Church in its undeniable purity But at once to answer both the Bishops and Sectaries objection I affirm that the prime and precise reason to be given why we believe the voice of the present Church witnessing or giving Assurance of Divine Revelation to us is neither Scripture Councils nor Fathers no nor the Oral Doctrine of Christ himself but the pregnant and convincing Motives of Credibility which moved both the Primitive Christians and us in our respective times to believe the Church Not that we are necessitated to resolve our Faith into the Motives as its Formal Object or ultimate Reason of Assent for that can be no other then the Divine Authority Revealing but as into most certain Inducements powerfully and prudently inclining our will to accept the present Church as the Infallible Organ ordained by Divine Authority to teach us the sure way of salvation The second Instance is ad hominem against the Bishop in relation to those Fundamental Truths wherein he confesses the whole Church neither doth nor can erre For suppose a Separatist should thus argue with his Lordship your Doctrine concerning the Infallibility
of the Church in Fundamentals is most unreasonable For if a man ask you why you believe all those points which you hold for Fundamental for example the Resurrection of the Dead and life everlasting your answer will be because they are agreeable to the Doctrine and Tradition of Christ. And if you be asked how you know them to be so you will no doubt produce the Words Sentences and Works of Christ who taught the said Fundamental points But if he ask you a third time by what means you are assured that those Testimonies do make for you or are indeed the Words Sentences and Works of Christ you will not then have recourse to the Testimonies and Words themselves that is to the Bible but your final Answer will be you know them to be so and that they do make for you because the present Church doth Infallibly witness so much to you from Tradition and according to Tradition which is to prove Idem per Idem as much as we And if the said Separatist further enquiring about the precedent Authorities of Scriptures Councils Fathers Apostles and Christ himself while he lived on Earth shall ask why such Fundamentals are believed upon the sole Authority of the Present Church as the last Testimony Infallibly assuring that those Fundamental Points and all the precedent Confirmations of them are from God 't is evident the Bishops party has no other way to avoid a Circle but by answering they believe the Scriptures Councils c. by reason of the Convincing Motives of Credibility powerfully inducing and inclining the will to accept the Present Church as the Infallible Organ Ordain'd by Divine Authority to teach us Which Infallibity must come from the Holy Ghost and be more then Humane or Moral and therefore must be truly 〈◊〉 and proceed from Gods most absolute and Divine Veracity in fulfilling his Promises as from its Radical Principle and from the Operation of the Holy Ghost as the immediate Cause preserving the Church from errour in all such points Thus we are easily got out of the Circle leaving the Bishop still tumbling himself in it For we do not finally rest on the Present Church as consisting of men subject to errour as his Lordship vainly suggests Nor do we rest upon the Motives of Credibility as the Formal Object of our Faith but as inducing us to rely on the said Church ordain'd by Divine Authority to teach us and is consequently Infallible Whereas the Bishop does but dance in a Round while enquiring for some Infallible warrant of the Word of God he thus concludes pag. 66. 'T is agreed on by me it can be nothing but the Word of God which must needs end in an apparent Circle as proving Idem per Idem And whereas immediately after he runs on prolixly in Distinguishing between Gods written and unwritten Word as though he would make the latter serve for Infallible proof of the former he never reflects that the said latter viz. Gods unwritten Word does necessarily stand in as much need of proof as the former Now as concerning the Authority of the Church of which the Motives of Credibility do ascertain us 't is not necessary that it be esteem'd or stiled absolutely Divine as the Bishop would have it yet as to this purpose and so far as concerns precise Infallibility or certain Connexion with Truth it is so truly supernatural and certain that in this respect it yields nothing to the Scripture it self I mean in respect of the precise Infallibility and absolute veracity of whatsoever it Declares and Testifies to be matter of Divine Faith though in many other respects we do not deny but the Authority of the Church is much inferiour to that of Scripture For first the Holy Scripture hath a larger extent of Truth because there not onely every reason but every word and tittle is matter of Faith at least implicitely and necessarily to be believ'd by all that know it to be a part of Scripture but in the Definitions of the Church neither the Arguments Reasons nor Words are absolutely speaking matters of Faith but onely the Thing Declared to be such Besides the Church has certain limits and can Define nothing but what was either Reveal'd before or hath such connexion with it as it may be Rationally and Logically deduced from it as appertaining to the Declaration and Defence of that which was before Revealed Moreover the Church hath the Receiving and Interpreting of Scripture for its End and consequently is in that respect inferiour to it Hence it is that Holy Scripture is per Excellentiam called the Word of God and Divine whereas the Testimony of the Church is onely said by Catholique Divines and in particular by A. C. IN SOME SORT or IN A MANNER Divine By which manner of speaking their intention is not to deny it to be equal even to Scripture it self in point of Certainty and Infallibility but onely to shew the Prerogatives of Scripture above the Definitions of the Church Adde that although we hold it necessary and therein agree with our Adversary that we are to believe the Scriptures to be the word of God upon DIVINE Authority yet standnig precisely in what was propounded by Mr. Fisher pag. 59. How the Bishop knew Scripture to be Scripture there will be no necessity of Defending the Churches Authority to be simply Divine For if it be but Infallible by the promised Assistance of the Holy Ghost it must give such Assurance that whatever is Defined by it to be Scripture is most certainly Scripture that no Christian can doubt of it without Mortal Sin and shaking the Foundation of Christian Faith as hath been often Declared And the immediate reason why the Authority teaching Scripture to be the Word of God must be absolutely Infallible is because it is an Article of Christian Faith that all those Books which the Church has Defined for Canonical Scripture are the Word of God and seeing every Article of Faith must be Reveal'd or taught by Divine Authority this also must be so revealed and consequently no Authority less then Divine is sufficient to move us to believe it as an Article of Faith Now it is to be remembred and A. C. notes it pag. 49 50. that the Prime Authority for which we believe Scripture to be the Word of God is Apostolical Tradition or the unwritten Word of God which moves us as the formal Object of our Faith to believe that Scripture is the Written Word of God and the Definition of the Present Church assuring us Infallibly that there is such a Tradition applies this Article of our Faith unto us as it does all the rest whether the Voice or Definition of the Present Church in it self be absolutely Divine or no. Neither can there be shew'n any more difficulty in believing this as an Apostolical Tradition upon the Infallible Declaration of the Church then in believing any other Apostolical Tradition whatsoever upon the like Declaration His
My Lord having been sufficiently informed of your eminent Authority and great Learning I desire to receive some satisfaction from you in matter of Religion but being not verst in your Christian Principles I am uncapable of accepting of any save what can be evidenc'd to me by the light of Natural Reason Bishop I willingly condescend to your request and doubt not to render you fully satisfied by the means you require Heath I understand by your learned Relation of a Conference c. that the sole Foundation of your Faith is a Certain Book called by you the BIBLE which contains many different Tracts and Histories written in very distant times by several Authours and bound up together in one volume And this you say must be believed Infallibly with every part and parcel in it to be the undoubted Word of the true God before I can believe any other point of your Religion as it ought to be believed Now I have employed sometime in perusing this your Bible and am no way inclined by the light of Reason to assent that it is Gods word in such manner as you believe it Bish. Surely you have not employed the Talent of Reason as reason required you should have done otherwise you would have discerned this Book to be the very Word of God For our Faith contains nothing against Reason neither is Grace placed but in a Reasonable Soul Heath But yet your Faith is above Reason and your Grace above a Reasonable Creature so that by Reasons light I can reach neither of them nor can my reason without Grace say you see my way to heaven nor believe this Book Bish. I confess it is so yet Natural Reason is cleared by Grace to see what by Nature alone it cannot Heath Tell not me of Grace I understand nothing of that and believe as little Unless therefore you satisfie me that your Bible can justly challenge an infallible belief of its being Gods word by conviction of naturall Reason my search is at a stand Bish. Though you will have Grace utterly excluded from the Question yet I must tell you you may not think that this Principle of Religion That Scriptures are the Word of God is so indifferent to a natural eye that it may as justly lean to one part of the Contradiction as to the other for 't is strengthned abundantly with Probable Arguments even from the light of Nature it self Heath A man cannot be infallibly certain of what is strengthned with but probable Arguments since that which is but probably true may be also said to be but probably false Wherefore I fear Naturall Reason goes not very far in the decision of this question Bish. Say not so For Reason can go so high as it can prove that Christian Religion which rests upon the Authority of this Book stands on surer grounds of Nature and Reason then any thing in the world which any Infidell or meer Naturalist can adhere unto against it Heath This your assertive Answer is doubly defective as I conceive First because it is not enough for one to prove his Religion to stand upon surer grounds then another mans since 't is possible there may be a third Religion resting on surer grounds then either of the other two Secondly because in your own Principles you are not to prove your Bible by your Religion as you here seem to endeavour but your Religion by your Bible which must therefore be first proved and that by Naturall Reason too for otherwise it will never work me into an infallible belief of it Bish. This Canon of Scripture the Container of Christs Law is or hath been received and believed for infallible Verity in almost all Nations under Heaven which could never have been wrought in men of all sorts but by working upon their Reason Heath Did the Nations you speak of receive the Scriptures on the sole Account of Reason and thereupon by diligent reading and conferring of Texts became Christians or were they first made Christians and after upon the Churches Authority received them for Gods undoubted word The Authors by you cited in your Book averre not their reception of them for Gods word before they were made Christians What wonder then if I who am yet no Christian see not sufficient reason to receive them for such Truly to me by what has hitherto been said it seems impossible to prove by Reason that your Bible is Gods Infallible Truth Bish. Nay it is not impossible to prove it even by Reason a Truth Infallible or make you deny some apparent Principle of your own Heath Evidence me that and your Lordship will accomplish a great work Bish. 'T is an apparent Principle with those of your perswasion that God or the absolute prime Agent cannot be forced out of possession since if he could he were neither Absolute nor God in your own Theology But your Gods have been forced out of possession viz. out of the Bodies they possessed by the name of the true God and Christ whom the Scriptures teach and we believe to be the onely true God Therefore Heath Therefore what By what kinde of Logick can you inferre even out of your own premises which yet I might well question that therefore the Scripture is Gods word Bish. Does it not follow that you must either deny your own Gods or your own Principle in Nature And if it be reasonable to deny him for God who is under command why is it not also reasonable to believe that the Scripture is Gods word since there you finde Christ doing that viz. dispossessing Bodies and giving power to do it after Heath My Lord I cannot a little wonder to see you swerve so grosly from the known Rules of Logick as to beg the Question which here you do most palpably while you rest on the sole Authority of Scripture for proving the same Scripture to be the word of God If this be not a meer petitio principii I know not what is Bish. I perceive you are willfull and self-conceited for otherwise you would have been wrought upon by what you have heard However I shall adde this more that if in all Sciences there be some Principles which cannot be proved if even in the Mathematiques where are the exactest Demonstrations there be quaedam postulata some things to be first demanded and granted before the Demonstration can proceed who can justly deny that to Divinity a Science of the highest object which he easily 〈◊〉 to inferiour Sciences which are more within his reach There must therefore in Reason some principle be supposed in Divinity viz. the Text of Scripture as a Rule which Novices and weaklings may be taught first to believe that so they may come to the knowledge of the Deducibles out of this rich Principle I see not how right Reason can deny this ground Heath I did not think to finde your Lordship so disingenuous as not onely to contradict your self by unsaying all
that you had said before by way of proof upon the Account of Naturall Reason but to put so gross a fallacy upon me That because Naturall Sciences admit some Principles without proof as being so clear in themselves that there needs no more then the bare apprehension of their tearms therefore in Reason the Bible must be supposed for Gods word and admitted without probation for an unquestionable Principle May not any Religion pretend the like The Turks for example may they not say their Alcoran is the Rule and Principle of their Religion and consequently unquestionable You know very well and confess it too elsewhere That the Principles of Naturall Knowledge appear manifest by intuitive light of understanding And you know as well that there is an infinite disparity in the case between such Principles and your Bible The later having exercis'd the wit and learning of a world of Expositors in regard of its obscurity and the former being uncapable of proof by reason of their evident clearness I may therefore rationally conclude that your Bible cannot justly challenge an infallible Belief of being Gods word by conviction of Natur all Reason This was my opinion of your Bible before I met you and I am now more confirmed in it by your Lordships discourse of whom I take my leave By this Interlocutory Discourse of the Bishop with the Heathen wherein I have not wrong'd him by either falsly imposing on him or dissembling the force of his Arguments a man may easily discern how irrationall it is to take the Bible for the sole Rule and Guide in matters of Faith A Doctrine which had it been held in the Primitive Church would have laid the World under an impossibility of ever being converted to Christianity But now 't is high time to return to our Church-Tradition which I press a little further in this manner 6. A Child is brought up and instructed in the Roman Church till he arrives to some ripeness of years Amongst other things he is commanded to believe the Bible is the True word of God that he must neither doubt of this nor of any other Article of Faith receiv'd universally amongst Christians He gives therefore the same Infallible assent to the Scriptures being the word of God that he gives to the other Articles of Faith and so without once looking into the Scripture departs this life I demand had this Christian saving Faith or not if he had then upon the Churches Authority he sufficiently believed the Scriptures to be the word of God Ergo the Churches Authority was sufficient to ground an Infallible Faith in this point If he had not saving Faith in this Article he could not have it in any of the rest for he had them all from the very same Authority of the Church Therefore he had no saving Faith at all Ergo such a Christian could not be saved Would his Lordship have ventured to affirm this But let us suppose now that this young Christian yet lives and applies himself to study makes progress in learning becomes a profound Philosopher a learned Divine an expert Historian then betakes himself upon the Churches recommendation to the reading of Scriptures discovers a new light in them and by force of that light discerns also that the Faith he had before was onely a humane perswasion and that he had no divine Faith at all before he found by that light in Scripture that they were the undoubted word of God and sole foundation of Faith and consequently that not having that foundation he had no saving Faith of any Article of Christian Belief and for want thereof was out of the state of Salvation What gripes and torture of spirit would spring out of such a Doctrine amongst Christians Moreover either the Church whereof he is suppos'd a member taught that he was to believe Scripture infallibly to be the word of God upon her sole Tradition as an infallible Testimony thereof as we before supposed or not If the first then he reflects that this Church has plainly deceiv'd him and if she have deceiv'd him in assuming that Infallibility to her self and teaching him that by resting upon her Authority he had saving Faith when he had nothing but humane and uncertain perswasion she had deceived all her other Subjects as well as himself and consequently expos'd them all to the hazard of eternall damnation by following her Doctrine and therefore was no true Church but a seducer and deceiver Hence he gathers that her recommendation of Scripture is as much as nothing and so at last is left to the sole letter of Scripture without any credible voyce of the Church and then must either gather the Divine Authority of Scripture from sole Scripture which the Bishop denies or there will he no means left him to believe even according to the Bishops principles infallibly that Scripture is Divine and the true word of God If the Church teach him onely that her testimony of Scripture is no more then Humane and Fallible but that the Belief it self that Scripture is Gods word rests upon sole Scripture as his Lordship speaks he begins presently to consider what then becomes of so many millions of Souls who both in former and present times either were uncapable to read and examine Scripture by reason of their want of learning or made little use of that means as assuring themselves to have infallible Faith without it Had such Christians a morall and fallible perswasion onely and no divine Faith then they were all uncapable of salvation This consequence seems very severe to our supposed Christian. Wherefore he begins to make a further reflection and discourses in this manner Is the Tradition and Definition of the Church touching the Divine Authority and Canon of Scripture onely Humane and Fallible how then can I rationally believe that my single perswasion of its being the word of God is Divine and Infallible The Bishops Pastours and Doctors of the Church have both 〈◊〉 and understood it upon the Testimony of former Tradition and thereby discover'd its Divine Authority much more fully and exactly then I alone am able to do If therefore notwithstanding all their labour and exactness their perswasion concerning Scriptures being Gods word was onely Humane and Fallible what reason have I to think I am Divinely and Infallibly certain by my reading of Scripture that it is Divine Truth He goes on If the light of Scripture on the other side be so weak and dim that it is not able to shew it self unless first introduc'd by the recommendation of the Church how came Luther Calvin Zuinglius Huss Wickless c. to be so sharp-sighted as to discover this light of Scripture seeing they rejected the Authority of all visible Churches in the world coexistent with them or existent immediately before them and consequently of the true Church Hence he proceeds to a higher enquiry Had not sayes he the Ancient Primitive Fathers in the first three hundred years
after Christ as much reason and ability to finde this light in Scripture as I can pretend to Yet many Books which seem to me to discover themselves to be the word of God by that divine light which shines in them sent no such light to their eyes but were under question amongst them whether they were the word of God or not till they were declar'd such by the Catholique Church And I wonder much how Protestants receive the Books of the Old Tement upon the Authority of St. Hierome and the Jewish Synagogue and press no other reason notwithstanding they hold the Church may deceive us in the whole Canon of Scripture Further sayes this discoursing Christian If one who hath not yet examin'd the light of Scripture it self but onely taken it upon the account of Church-Tradition should deny for example St. Matthew's Gospel to be the written word of God he could not in this opinion be counted an Heretique because it was not sufficiently propounded to him to be Gods word Nay hence it follows that even our Blessed Saviour who is Wisdom it self would have been esteemed by all the world not a wise Law-giver but a meer Ignoramus and Impostour For had he not framed think you a strange and chimericall Common-wealth were it alone destitute of a full and absolute power which all other well-ordered Republiques enjoy to give an Authentical and unquestionable Declaration which is the genuine and true Law Now he comes closer to the matter it self and examines how this pretended light should be Infallible and Divine supposing the Churches Testimony of the Scriptures being Gods word was Humane onely and Fallible When I came discourses he with himself first to settle my thoughts to a serious reading of Scripture I had no more then a fallible Authority recommending Scripture to me That fallible Authority could be no Foundation much less a Formall object for a Divine and Infallible assent to rest upon Therefore before I thus began to read Scripture I had no Infallible and Divine Faith that it was the written word of God The Tradition therefore of the Church to me was no more then a Tradition of wise prudent and honest men who had no such assistance from God as was sufficient to preserve them from Errour Suppose therefore that as the Church might so she had err'd in testifying some Books of Scripture to be Gods word which really are not such in this supposition I should have them all equally recommended to me as Gods word by the very same Authority of the Church Then I fall to reading seriously and peruse all those which are call'd Canonicall Books in the Bible shall I ever think by my diligence in reading to discover that the light of Gods word shines not in those Books wherein the Church err'd as it shines in the rest Shall I discern Canonicall Books wherein she err'd not from the not-Canonicall by the light I finde in them when the whole Church and so many thousand learned Bishops who had read them more studiously and knowingly then I can do never discern'd any such different light more in the one then in the other But put case I were able to discern this difference in Scripture by the sole light of Scripture what follows seeing the Church ha's as universally recommended also very many unwritten Traditions for Apostolicall and Divine whereof some at least as the not-rebaptizing of those who were Baptized by Heretiques c. are most certainly true and as properly the word of God in their first delivery from Christ and his Apostles which the Bishop confesses as Scripture it self why can I not by that light which shines in a true Apostolicall Tradition as well distinguish it from a false one as by the light that shines in a true Book of Canonicall Scripture distinguish that from a false one Since God speaks equally in both why should there not be an equal light shining in both Nay seeing the Church in the Definition of Superstructures wherein his Lordship makes her fallible very often defines aright why may not I finde by the light which shines in such a definition that it is a Divine Truth and distinguish it from that which is not the true voyce of God and so take no other guide or judge to my self in Divine matters then onely my own knowledge of God speaking to me After this he examines a while of what perswasion the Holy Fathers were in this matter and findes that St. Irenaeus and St. Augustin in many places held that the Tradition of the Church is sufficient to found Christian Faith even without Scripture and that for some hundreds of years after the Canon of Scripture was written At length he returns again to your hidden light in Scriptures and discourses thus If the Church be fallible in the Tradition of Scripture how can I ever be infallibly certain that she has not err'd de facto and defin'd some Book to be the word of God which really is not his word These you may imagine were the thoughts of our perplexed Christian who wearied out with speculations and reflections fell in the close upon this result That either the Church must be Infallible in the Tradition of Scripture or there is no possible means to be infallibly certain which is Scripture nay which is more whether there be any true Scripture at all Now we return to his Lordship Here his Dedalian windings are disintricated and his Reasons easily solv'd For first Church-Tradition appears far from being too weak by advancing the Proposition I did before viz. that to give an Infallible Testimony of the Scriptures being the true word of God it is not necessary that Church-Tradition should be absolutely Divine Secondly I agree with our Antagonist in the Authority of the Prime Christian Church that it was absolutely Divine and yet averre it is not necessary to the solving of his Arguments to assert the like Divine Authority in the present Church 7. When he sayes that some of our own will not endure that the often mentioned words of St. Augustin Ego vero Evangello non crederem c. should be understood save of the Church in the time of the Apostles onely and in proof of this cites Occham in the margent I ask the Relatour how can one single Author be aliqui some of our own in the plurall number Had he said onely some one of our own it might have pass'd but to say some of ours and then cite but one was to make an extreme narrow passage in his Labyrinth Should Julian the Apostata to lay an aspersion upon the whole Colledge of the Apostles have said that some of them betray'd their Master and then have nam'd Judas onely and that some others deny'd him and in proof thereof had cited onely St. Peter or should a Catholique to disgrace the Protestant Primacy of Canterbury say that some of them carried a holy Sister of the Reformed Gospel lockt up in a chest
them still to correspond with the Churches recommendation that is to be the word of God by the inbred light that is in them which is a very Artificiall Turn and needs an Ariadne's clew to pass through it For by this means he never enters into nay never comes near the main difficulty which is how one shall discover true Scripture and discern it clearly from false when the Church through errour delivers as well false as true to be the word of God as she may do if she be fallible Yea how shall it be certainly known whether de facto she now erres not in her delivery of it And seeing either Theirs or Ours must erre who is such a Lynceus that by the sole light of Scripture upon the recommendation of our respective Churches can discover which erres in the number and designation of Canonicall Books and which doth not Neither can it be gather'd by his discourse what they are to do who are unresolv'd which is the true Church and go about as most of our late Sectaries do to finde out the true Church by the Scriptures For seeing such have not the ushering and in-leading direction of the Church whereof the Bishop speaks they must either finde out the true Scriptures by their sole light or by the private Spirit or lastly by the light of naturall Reason which are all equally against our Adversary Should he say they are first to finde out the Church by the Motives of Credibility as we hold and then take Scripture from her inducing though fallible Authority I demand whether by those Motives in his opinion one may become sufficiently certain that the Congregation of Christians which is invested with the same is the true Church If one can then antecedently to Scripture one may infallibly believe this main Article of our Creed the Holy Catholique Church and consequently may have divine and saving Faith which being suppos'd sole Scripture will not be the foundation of our Faith as the Bishop every where contends If one cannot be sufficiently certain which is the true Church by those Motives as he must say then one may still doubt notwithstanding those Motives whether that be the true Church or no and consequently shall not have undoubtedly the Tradition of the true Church to induce him into the esteem and reading of Scripture and in this case Scripture must be known by its own light independently of the recommendation thereof from the Church The Instance he brings of Logick evinces not the truth of that for which it is brought since there is not any such Analogy between Logick and Church-Tradition as he labours to perswade his Reader For though Logick 't is true does help as he sayes to open a mans understanding and prepares him to be able to demonstrate a Truth viz. in Naturall Sciences wherewith it hath a kinde of connexion they all depending on Naturall Reason yet Church-Tradition cannot so qualifie the understanding as to enable it to see the Scripture to be Gods word but either makes a man believe and receive it for such upon its sole Authority or leaves him as much in the dark touching this point as it did finde him And for the Scriptures themselves they appear no more to be the word of God then the Stars to be of a certain determinate number or the distinction of colours to a blinde man Wherefore if the Church may erre in this point yea and hath err'd according to the Doctrine of Protestants because we hold many Books for Canonicall Scripture which they reject as Apocryphall we shall be so far from having Infallible Certainty that Scripture is the word of God that we shall have no certainty at all no nor so much light as to make a rationall man lean more to one part of the Contradiction then to the other neither at the first reading of Scripture nor afterwards The same may be urg'd in the interpretation of Scripture For Protestants hold that the Church may erre yea and hath err'd in this and not onely in small matters but in such which as they say have made us guilty of Superstition and Idolatry How then can one that doubts in any point of Faith resolve what he ought to believe For to speak modestly he findes as many and as learned men defending our Canon of Scripture against theirs as there are that defend their Canon against ours and as many standing for our Interpretation as for theirs It s impossible therefore to satisfie such a man without the Infallible Authority of the Church unless you will betake your self to the Private Spirit which in other respects would bring you into as great straits and make way for all Heretiques to allow or disallow what Scripture they please and interpret each place according to their own fancy pretending still and with as much reason as you can do the private Spirit 5. The Bishop here requires so many conditions viz. Grammar Logick Study Comparison of Scripture with it self and other writings Ordinary Grace a minde morally induc'd and reasonably perswaded by the voyce of the Church c. that he scarce makes any one capable to perceive this Scripture-light and consequently attain the formall object of Faith without which no true Faith can subsist or be found in any person save onely men of extraordinary parts and learning which is a very obscure passage indeed in this his Labyrinth much darker then our Saviour ever made the way to heaven for that is a way so plain and open that even fools cannot erre in it Isa. 35. 8. But how comes he now to require Grace which himself before rejected under the title of private Spirit as not pertinent to the present question Grace belonging onely to the subject that believes not to the object believed nor to the manner of proposing it to fit it for belief If the Scripture hath that light he speaks of it will be able to shew it self so clearly that every one may see it who will but seriously look upon it and consider it for if it be not so clear 't is a manifest sign that 't is not the light of certainty and consequently needs some other light to certifie us that Scripture is the word of God For seeing this certainty is not such as makes the thing revealed evident but onely certifies it self to be a Divine Revelation or the word of God if our Faith can rest hereupon it must make it self so certain that to whomsoever it is sufficiently propounded 't is no less sin to dissent from it then it was to dissent from the voyce of Christ or his Apostles in those to whom their Authority was sufficiently propounded Scripture therefore must either shew its Divine Authority as clearly by it self in his opinion as either Christ or his Apostles did theirs by their miracles and other signs of Credibility or it will not sufficiently manifest it self to be the word of God so far as to induce an obligation of
not dissenting from it Again as Christ and his Apostles shew'd they had Divine Authority to all who had the Grace to believe them and none to whom their preaching was sufficiently propounded could disbelieve them without damnable sin so also if the Scripture hath light enough after the recommendation of the Church to be seen by all that have Grace whoever dissents from that light commits a damnable sin in not believing it to be the word of God Now to affirm that all who dissent from that light commit damnable sin were to condemne not onely all the Luther an Protestants but many of the holy Ancient Fathers of damnable sin who read some of those Books which other Protestants account Scripture even upon the recommendation of the Church and yet dissented from their being the word of God at least accounted it not infallibly certain that they were 6. Thus we have seen quite contrary to the Bishops Doctrine that Scripture gives not so great and high Reasons of Credibility to it self that the Believer may rest his last and full assent that Scripture is of Divine Authority upon that Divine light which Scripture hath in self For there appears no such light to any but to the Bishop and those who pretend to the private Spirit 'T is true the Scripture is said by the Royal Prophet to be a Light because after we have once receiv'd it from the Infallible Authority of the Church it teacheth what we are to do and believe Therefore David saith not Verba scripta in Bibliis lumen pedibus meis but Verbum tuum THY WORD is a light to my feet so that he first believ'd the Scripture to be the word of God and then said it was a light c. But without this Authority 't is neither lumen manifestativum sui nec alterius neither a light that evidences it self nor any thing else because without this we may with just reason doubt as well of Scripture as of the true sense thereof Wherefore though Origen prove by the Scriptures themselves that they were inspir'd from God yet he doth never avow that this could be prov'd out of them unless they were receiv'd by the Infallible Authority of the Church And Henricus a Gandavo quoted by his Lordship for affirming that Christians in the Primitive Church did principally believe for the Authority of God and not of the Apostles means onely that Christians were not mov'd to believe for any humane Authority of the Apostles but for the Authority of God speaking by them So that this argument must be solv'd as well by the Bishop as by us for he has already granted that the Authority of the Apostles was Divine as well as we And Origen whom he cites in the Margent speaks to such as believ'd that Scriptures were the word of God whom by those proofs out of Scripture he endeavour'd to confirm and settle in their Faith by shewing how Scripture it self testified as much We may therefore assert that 't is not any humane or fallible Authority of the Church that moves us to embrace the Scripture as the Infallible word of God but the voyce of God speaking by the Church or the Authority of God declar'd to us infallibly by the present Church And this Infallible Authority is no less requisite to the knowledge of the first Apostolicall Tradition of the Scriptures then it is to know the Scripture it self But I finde another handsome Turn or two in this discourse of the Bishop He undertook to evince that the Scripture hath such light in it self that being introduc'd by the Tradition of the Church it can shew it self to be the most undoubted Divine word of God which to perform he assumes this medium The Scripture is a light Therefore it can manifest not onely other things but also it self by it self to be a light Ergo it can manifest it self to be the word of God This must be his consequence if he will conclude his intent But what windings are here The Scripture is a light I grant it Ergo 't is able to manifest it self to be a light I grant that too Ergo it can manifest it self to be an infallible light or the undoubted word of God That I deny and this which was the onely thing to be prov'd he never so much as goes about to prove For unless he could shew that there are no other lights save the word of God and such as are Infallible he can never make good his consequence In Seneca in Plutarch in Aristotle I read many lights and those lights manifest themselves to be lights Ergo they manifest themselves to be Infallible lights or the very Divine word of God what consequence is this The Scripture teacheth that there is one God this is a light and manifests it self to be a light Ergo it manifests it self to be the word of God how follows that May not the same light be found in hundreds of Books even in the Talmud of the Jews and Alcoran of the Turks as well as in Scripture The same may be said of a thousand Moral Instructions which either the very same or much like to them may be sound in other Moral Writers as well Christians as Jews and Heathens which all manifest themselves to be lights but follows it thence that they manifest themselves to be Divine lights or lights undoubtedly proceeding from the mouth of God The intricacy therefore of this Meander consists in making a sly Transition from the light to the person who is cause of this light I finde for example a candle lighted in a room it is a light and enlightens all the room and shews it self to be a light by its own light but it shews not by that light who lighted it I see some good sentence written on a wall it manifests it self by it self to be good but it manifests not whether it were written by Man Angel or God himself this must be evinc'd some other way Thus the words and sentences in Scripture are lights and shew themselves by themselves to be lights yet because the very same or such as are perfectly like and so the same in substance and sense may have been conceiv'd and express'd not onely by God but by good Men or Angels it follows not as he would have it they shew themselves to be lights by their own light Ergo they shew themselves to be Gods-lights or Infallible lights produc'd by none but God himself We have made I hope a pretty good progress through this Meander But no looner is one past over but we fall into another He was to prove that Scripture has light enough in it self to give Divine Infallible proof that 't is the word of God so as our Faith may rest upon that light as on its proper formall object and to evince this he cites here and there Authorities of the Fathers where they took some proofs out of Scripture to conclude Scripture to be the word of God
We grant they did so but what follows thence Ergo Scripture gives sufficient Divine proof to it self before it be believ'd infallibly to be Gods word This he was to inferre from it but how proves he this consequence which is the onely difficulty He doth it thus or no way at all The Fathers who precedently to the reading of Scripture believ'd infallibly that Scripture was the word of God prov'd by Scripture that it was such Ergo those who believe not infallibly that Scripture is Gods word may evince by Scripture that 't is the word of God Is not this a strong inference The difficulties occurring in this his Lordships Doctrine though slighted by him are as many as in that of the private Spirit the odium of which opinion he will never be able to avoid by desiring not to have it so much as nam'd in the state of the question For if the Church may erre yea and hath err'd according to Protestants in this point how can we have Infallible assurance either of the Prime Apostolical Tradition or of the Scripture it self We read esteem nay very highly reverence the Scripture yet see we not such convincing and infallible arguments as can give us assurance that those Books are infallibly the word of God which Protestants admit and no other Now when he sayes they resolve their Faith into Prime Tradition Apostolical and in the next number knows not how to be certain of that Tradition he dissolves what he resolv'd before and makes one part of his Resolution impossible Yet could he derive infallibly the Resolution of his Faith into Prime Apostolicall Tradition he would quite undoe what he said before that Scripture is the onely foundation of our Faith and not Tradition Thus he turns quite opposite wayes in his Labyrinth 7. Here therefore to averre without any further proof that there appears such light to Protestants and no others is in effect to challenge the Private Spirit to himself and his party which is something more then onely to allow it in general For if there be sufficient light in Scripture to shew it self why do not we see it as well as they seeing we read it as diligently and esteem it as highly as they do To say that all are blinde besides themselves or that all beside themselves have such perverse eyes such unsanctified understandings that they cannot see nor reach that light which Protestants most easily discern is very great presumption and the same may with as much reason be challeng'd by every Heretique for the admitting of what Books he pleaseth into the Canon and for giving whatsoever Glosses and Interpretations upon them as shall occurre to his fancy Nor can he upon any just ground make the Scripture to be like those Principles which are known of themselves so soon as the Terms are understood For such Principles are either evidently or probably known of themselves Of the former sort are these and others of like nature The whole is greater then a part thereof The same thing cannot be and not be at the sametime Of the latter sort is this and such others Every mother loves her childe from which 't is probably concluded that Katharine for example loves her childe by this argument Every mother loves her childe But Katharine is a mother Therefore Katharine loves her childe Now if we speak of principles of the first kinde the Relatour grants that Scripture is no such principle and 't is manifest in it self that it is not otherwise all men would agree which is the word of God as all agree in those Metaphysicall Principles above-named Neither is the Scripture a Principle of the second sort for of it self it appears not so much as probably to be more the word of God then some other Book which is not truly such And though it had some probability that it were such yet were it not sufficient for we must have certainty and infallible certainty too as his Lordship grants But how that can be had without the infallible Authority of the Church I am confident neither he nor any of his party will ever be able to shew But if we betake our selves to the infallible Authority of the Church we may be as certainly and infallibly assured that Scripture is the word of God as those who heard the Apostles say that Scripture was Gods word For as the Signs and Motives which accompanied the Apostles prov'd them to be Infallible so the Motives of Credibility prove the True Church to be Infallible insomuch that we can no more erre in taking the Scripture from the Church then the Christians of the Primitive Church could erre in taking it from the Apostles And yet as their Faith was of things not seen both in regard of the Object which is not seen and of the Subject that sees onely in aenigmate enigmatically and darkly so is ours Will the Bishop then account the greatest part or rather all the Fathers either blinde or sensual men who saw no such light for some hundreds of years after Christ as Protestants with his Lordship here pretend they see in some Books of Scripture Were all those of the Roman Church for so many ages before blinde when you of the new-found Church first began who discovered no such Infallible and Divine light in Scripture as could evince it self to be the word of God to such as before believ'd it not to be so with Divine certainty Or will Protestants be content that we upon this their own principle account them all blinde and sensual men because they see not the light of many other Books which our Church recommends to them and us and which we believe to be Divine Scripture as a great part of the Ancient Fathers did before us What do any Sectaries in the world more then this either against us or them or one against another in asserting the Private Spirit For the Bishop and his party affirm themselves to be so enlightned that they can see and discover that in Scriptures which no other Christians beside themselves ever did or could even before they believe it infallibly to be Scripture 8. As for Bellarmin whom the Bishop will needs have to be 〈◊〉 and unable to stand upon his own ground for teaching lib. 3. De Ecclesia cap. 14. that 't is not altogether necessary to salvation to believe any Divine Scriptures I wonder he should make such Sallies and Skirmishes against that which in it self hath no shadow of difficulty it being as Bellarmin asserts it a truth so evident that the Bishop himself could not have deny'd it And if his Lordship had not too hastily run over Bellarmin he would have found that he distinguishes times as well as Gandavo cited in the same page For he saith that to believe there are any Divine Scriptures 't is not absolutely necessary to salvation for his omnino signifies no more because many were saved who lived before Divine Scriptures were written and since
Scriptures morally speaking more obnoxious to alteration then Universall Tradition 3. He mistakes his Adversaries words contradicts his Brethren and himself falsifies A. C. and most unhandsomely traduces the whole Order of the Jesuits 4. Texts of Scripture for the Churches Infallibility maintained 5. Why each Apostle Infallible and not each Bishop 6. Christs promises to his Apostles when to be extended to their Successours 7. Not the Apostles onely but their Successours also settled in all Truths 8. The Scripture the Church and her Motives of Credibility not unfitly compar'd to a Kings Word his Embassadours and his Credentials 9. Vincentius Lirinensis and Henricus a Gandavo misconstrued and the Fathers misalledged 1. THe Bishop num 26. of this Paragraph to withdraw his Reader from the Thesis or main matter in question viz. the Church descends very dextrously indeed but yet without any necessity to the Hypothesis or Church of Rome For though A. C. believes that the Roman in a true sense is the Catholique Church yet here he abstracts from that question and means no more then he plainly asserts viz. that the Tradition of the Catholique Church is Infallible c. But whether theirs or ours or some other Congregation of Christians be the Catholique Church that 's another question of which A. C. affirms nothing in this place yet the Relatour as if he were somewhat nettled is pleas'd to say that after a long silence he thrusts himself in again and desires the Bishop to consider the Tradition of the Church not onely as it is the Tradition of a company of fallible men but as a Tradition of a company of men assisted by Christ and his holy Spirit in which sense he might easily finde it to be Infallible Truly in my opinion A. C. deserv'd no rough language for his respects to the Bishop in being so long and silently attentive to his discourse though at length through zeale he became something earnest in the business out of a desire to bring his Adversary into the right way and to this end urged him to consider the Tradition of the Church not onely as it is a Tradition of a company of fallible men but as a Tradition of a company of men assisted by Christ and his holy Spirit and not assisted by them in any common way but in such a manner as reacheth to Infallibility For such assistance is necessary as well to have sufficient assurance of the true Canon of holy Scripture as to come to the true meaning and interpretation thereof Such assistance the Relatour confesseth the Prophets to have had under the Old Testament and the Apostles under the New The like we say the High Priest with his Clergy had in the Old Testament as we gather out of the 17. of Deuteronomy verse 8. c. where in doubts the people were bound not onely to have recourse to the High Priest and his Clergy but to submit and stand to their judgement Much more then ought we to think that there is such an obligation in the New Testament which could not stand without Infallibility Witness the infinite dissentions and divisions in points of Faith amongst all the different Sects of Christians that deny it Neither had he any reason to break forth into those exclamations Good God whither will these men go For they go no further then Christ himself leads them by promises made unto them in the places of holy Scripture which shall be set down 〈◊〉 And the Pastours of the Catholique Church may very well acknowledge this Infallibility yet make it no occasion to Lord it over others unless he will also accuse the Apostles upon the same account Neither do they equal the Tradition of the present Church as the Relatour urgeth to the written word of God and this hath been shew'd before Touching what he writes of Divine Infallibility we have already declar'd that 't is sufficient to our present purpose to assert Church-Tradition to be Infallible whether it be simply Divine or no is another question to be determin'd when time and place requires Whence it follows that there 's no necessity of equalizing Church-Tradition to the Word of God For we have already acknowledg'd that 't is not in all respects equal to Scripture Again he falls from the Thesis to the Hypothesis We have nothing now to do with this question whether the Roman Bishop and his Clergy be the Head of the Catholique Church or no but whether that which is the Catholique Church be able to breed in us Divine Faith or no whatsoever Congregation of Christians it be So that his impeaching the Roman Church of errours here whilst we are in dispute about another question is wholly out of season His answer to St. Basils Text Parem vim habent ad pietatem that unwritten Traditions have equal force to stir up piety with the written word is very deficient First 't is true he speaks of Apostolical Traditions yet of such as were come down from their times to St. Basils For otherwise how should they have had in his time any force at all to move to piety as he said they then had Parem vim habent ad pietatem Secondly his exception taken against that Work of St. Basil from Bishop Andrews and that borrowed from Erasmus and he collecting it onely from the stile which yet others far more ancient and better acquainted with St. Basils stile then Erasmus acknowledge to be his this exception I say we esteem of no great force Thirdly St. Basils making the unwritten Traditions whereof he speaks to be such as are not contrary to Scripture proves not Scripture it self so to be the Touch-stone of Apostolical Tradition as that Scripture must therefore needs be of greater force and superiour dignity then that of Tradition For the Bishop himself grants Prime Apostolical Tradition to be equally divine with Scripture and yet 't is true to say that those Prime Traditions are such as are not contrary to scripture But the sense of Stapletons words is quite perverted by the Bishop For he speaks as his words clearly intimate of later and fresher Traditions then are the Prime Apostolical viz. such as were begun by General Councils or perhaps in some particular Church His words are recentiorem posteriorem sicut particularem c. which do not signifie such Traditions as we now treat of viz. Traditions primely Apostolical deliver'd from hand to hand in all succeeding ages by the universal and constant Tradition of the Church and conveighed as such unto us by the Tradition of the present Church 2. A. C. urging the present Copies of Scripture c. presses the Relatour very hard as I have already shew'd Now I adde what if the Ancienter Copies disagree How shall we know which is the true Word of God His saying that true Scripture may be more easily known then true Tradition because the one is written and not the other is not consequent
in this point upon this particular Text or no is little material 'T is sufficient they acknowledge the thing we contend for viz. the Prerogative of Infallibility and Immunity from errour in the Church and that they generally derive it from our Saviours special Promises unto the Church and his Presence with it which Presence and Promises this Text with others of like nature do clearly contain as the Bishop himself acknowledges Wherefore with far greater reason we return the challenge upon himself and press the Relatours party to produce any one Father that ever deny'd the sense of this place to reach to infallible assistance granted thereby to all the Apostles Successours in such manner as we maintain it The like answer of our satisfies his exposition of the third place John 14. 16. For what was promis'd there for ever must in some absolute sense so far as is necessary to the preservation of the Church from errour be verified in future ages He frames also an answer to a fourth place viz. John 16. 13. which speaks of leading the Apostles into all truth This he restrains to the persons of the Apostles onely And he needs not tells us so often of simply all For surely none is so simple as not to know that without his telling it But we contend that in whatsoever sense all truth is to be understood in respect of each Apostle apart 't is also to be understood in relation to their Successours assembled in a full Representative of the whole Church 5. Now one main reason of this difference between the Apostles and succeeding Pastours of the Church I take to be this that every Apostle apart had receiv'd an immediate Power from our Saviour over the whole Church so that whatever any one of them taught as Christian Faith all the Church was oblig'd to believe and consequently had he err'd in any thing the whole Church would have been oblig'd to follow and believe that errour Whereas on the other side the succeeding Bishops generally speaking were not to be Pastours of the whole Church but each of his own respective Diocess so that if particular Pastours preach'd any errour in Faith the whole Church was unconcern'd in it having no obligation to believe them But in regard those respective Pastours when they are assembled in a lawful Representative or General Council are in quality of the Pastours of the whole Church if they should erre in such a body the whole Church would be oblig'd to erre with them which is against the promises of our Saviour Hence also it follows in proportion that the Bishop of Rome being Pastour of the whole Church when he teacheth any thing in that quality viz. as Pastour of the whole Church and intending to oblige the whole Church by his Definition cannot in the common opinion erre for the same reason 6. To give also the Fundamentall Reason for this Exposition one and that a certain way to know when our Saviours words spoken immediately to the Apostles are to be extended to their Successours in all ages is this that when the necessary good and preservation of the Church requires the performance of Christs words in future ages no less then it requir'd it in the Apostles times then we are to understand that his words extend themselves to those ages unless there be some express limitation added to his words tying them to the Apostles onely Thus when our Saviour commanded his Apostles to Preach Baptize Remit sins Feed their Flocks c. Seeing these actions are as necessary for all future ages as they were in the Apostles time 't is manifest they were to reach to all succeedinga ges Again in regard he also promised John 16. 13. to lead the Apostles by his Holy Spirit into all truth and seeing 't is as necessary now for those who act as Pastours of the whole Church as all succeeding Bishops do when they meet in a lawful Oecumenicall Council to be led into all those truths into which he promis'd to lead the Apostles for the reason but now alledged it evidently follows by vertue of our Saviours promise that they are alwayes and effectually so led And though it would be boldness as the Relatour terms it to enlarge that promise in the fulness of it beyond the persons of the Apostles so far as to give to every single succeeding Bishop as Infallible a leading into all truth as each of the Apostles had yet may it without any boldness at all be affirmed that the succeeding Bishops assembled as abovesaid have an infallible leading into all truth as being then Representative Pastours of the whole Church to teach and instruct her what she is to believe St. Austins words therefore which the Bishop cites calling them in a manner Prophetical are not with the least shadow of reason applyable to us but to a world of Phanaticks sprung from the stock of Protestancy and who still pass under the general notion of Protestants And this I may boldly assert in regard 't is clear that the said great Saint and Doctor held the self-same Doctrine we here maintain while for instance he accounts our obligation to communicate Fasting to have proceeded from the Holy Ghost of which Will of the Holy Ghost we are not ascertain'd by any Text of Scripture but by the Church alone 'T is manifest sayes he that when the Disciples first received the Body and Blood of our Lord they did not receive Fasting Must we therefore calumniate the Universall Church for alwayes receiving Fasting Since the Holy Ghost was pleased herewith that in honour of so great a Sacrament the Body of our Lord should enter into a Christians mouth before any other meat For this cause this Custom is observ'd throughout the world I might easily produce several other instances to the same effect if this one were not sufficient as I presume it is 7. Neither hath the Bishop any ground to averre that this promise of settling the Apostles in all truth was for the persons of the Apostles onely because the Truths in which the Apostles were settled were to continue inviolably in the Church What wise man would go about to raise a stately Building to continue for many ages and satisfie himself with laying a Foundation to last but for few years Our Saviour the wisest of Architects is not to be thought to have founded this incomparable Building of the Church upon sand which must infallibly have happened had he not intended to afford his continuall Assistance also to the succeeding Pastours of the Church to lead them when assembled in a General Council into all those Truths wherein he first settled the Apostles as Vincentius Lirinensis above attests The Church never changes nor diminishes nor addes any thing at all nihil unquam no she changes nothing She neither cuts off any thing necessary nor adjoyns any thing superfluous she loses not what is her own she usurps not what belongs to another c. but onely
Scripture is Gods Word from the sole Testimony of the Church Yet when both partles press this Circle against each other they alwayes suppose that Scripture is Infallibly and Divinely believ'd for Gods Word in some true sense by means of the Churches Testimony Otherwise it were as impertinent to press this Question to a Christian why believe you the Scripture to be the Word of God that has no further certainty of it then what is drawn from a probable and humane Testimony of the Church as if it were propounded to a Heathen who had onely heard Scripture recommended for Gods Word by persons very worthy of credit For both of these were equally to answer that they deny'd the supposition of an Infallible Belief since they did not believe as Christians take the word Belief that it is Gods Word And then no marvel if there be no Circle committed when there is no Christian Belief which both sides presuppose as a ground of this Circle where ever it is found When therefore the Relatour speaks of proving Scripture by the Church unless he mean proving it by a Medium sufficient to assure us infallibly that it is the Word of God which he constantly refuses to grant though he fall not into a Circle yet he falls into a Semi-Circle that is a Crooked Turn in his Labyrinth by mis-stating the question and bowing it another way then it ought to be and alwayes is propounded in this Controversie as I said above Wherefore if the Church give onely a humane Testimony to induce 〈◊〉 a fallible assent that Scripture is the Word of God and Scripture afterwards by its own light gives me an infallible Certainty that the Testimony of the Church was true there could never have been the least ground for wise and learned men to move this difficulty of a vicious Circle one against another no more then when I believe it probable that to morrow will be a fair day because Peter tells me so and after I know certainly that Peter told me true because I see the next day to be fair by its own light His Lordship therefore was either to suppose that those Beginners and Weaklings he speaks of have some degree of Divine Faith that Scripture is the Word of God by means of the Churches Tradition antecedently to the reading of Scripture or he commits the fallacy term'd ex falso supposito of making a false supposition and so by avoiding one errour falls into another For unless he believe infallibly that Scripture is Gods word upon the Testimony of the Church as a true Cause and Motive of his Infallible Belief he doth not answer the question seeing all that affirm they believe this for the Churches Testimony understand it so and if he do he forsakes his own principles falls to us and consequently into that pretended Circle he objects against us if his objections be of force His Lordships Resolution of Faith into Prime Apostolical Tradition we have above evinced to be impossible supposing the immediate or present Church-Tradition to be fallible but were it possible we have also evidenced that it destroys his own grounds viz. of sole Scriptures-being the Foundation of our belief When therefore he averres that we may resolve our Faith into Prime Tradition when it is known to be such if he means by known as he must such a knowledge as may suffice to make that Prime Tradition an object of Faith he wheels quite about to amuse his Reader and sayes in effect we may then resolve our Faith into Tradition when that comes to pass which himself holds impossible ever to happen For if Prime Tradition can be onely gather'd by the perpetual succeeding Tradition of the Church as 't is certain it can onely be and that Tradition be fallible as the Bishop perpetually contends how shall any Prime Tradition be known sufficiently to make it self an object of Faith since nothing can do that but an Authority Infallible 〈◊〉 us Infallibly certain of that Tradition Hence he runs two contrary wayes at once desirous on the one side to resolve Faith into Prime Tradition that he may not seem repugnant to the Ancient Fathers and yet on the other so willing to be repugnant to us that by his grounds he makes that Resolution wholly impossible and to blinde these contrarieties pretends that Church-Tradition being not simply Divine cannot be such as may suffice for a formal object of Faith whereinto it is to be resolv'd when yet he knew full well the difficulty lay not there and that his Adversaries never affirm'd it was simply Divine or the formal object of Faith but spake alwayes warily and reservedly abstracting from that question as not necessary for the solving of his arguments or defence of the Catholick Faith against him Let the Bishops Adherents but confess that the Testimony and Tradition of the Church is truly infallible and we for the present shall require no more of them For that Infallibility suppos'd we have made it manifest that Prime Tradition is sufficiently derived to us in quality of the formal object of our Faith whereon to rest which in his Lordships principles is impossible to be done 4. Concerning the Relators endeavor to reconcile the Fathers whom he conceives to speak sometimes contrary to one another touching Scripture and Tradition though he doth not much oblige us in the number of those he brings in favour of our assertion for he names onely two and one of them somewhat lamely cited with an c. yet surely we are to thank him for his fair and candid exposition of those he quotes against us For he professes that when ever the Fathers speak of relying upon Scripture onely they are never to be understood with exclusion of Tradition wherein doubtless his Lordship delivers a great truth and nothing contrary to us But as for his challenge which follows we cannot but say that 's loud indeed but the sound betrayes its emptiness He will oblige us to shew that the holy Fathers maintain that which we need not affirm to be held by them For we never yet said that our Faith of the Scriptures-being Gods Word is resolved into the Tradition of the present Church but into Prime Apostolical Tradition of which we are infallibly certified by the Tradition of the present Church it being a condition or application of Prime Tradition to us And by this manner of defending our Tenets we have both gone along with A. C. and those Divines who affirm the voice of the Church not to be so simply and absolutely Divine as is the holy Scripture and given a full solution to all the Relatours arguments the most of which suppose us upon a false ground necessitated to acknowledge the voice of the Church to be so absolutely and simply Divine that our Faith is to rest upon it as its ultimate Motive and formall Object which must be no lesse then absolute Divine Authority But supposing we held our Faith to be
fastened to the undeniable Motives of Credibility accompanying and pointing out the true Church which Motives are the ground or reason why we believe the Church to be Infallible independently of Scripture whereby we avoid even the shadow of a Circle Now our Adversary on the other side though he grants true Christian Faith to be essentially Divine and Infallible and that Divine Revelation or Gods Word is the ultimate Foundation or Formal Object of Faith as also that we cannot believe with true Divine Faith unless we have some infallible ground and Authority to assure us of the said Divine Revelation or Word of God yet does he not 't is therefore to be suppos'd he could not shew any such infallible Authority or ground for his believing Scripture or any other point of Faith to be Divine Revelation or the Word of God The private Spirit however mask'd under the title of Grace hath been found to come far short in that respect the inbred Light of Scripture it self has been evidenc'd to be too weak and dimme for that purpose Neither can these defective means viz. of private Spirit and inbred Light of Scripture be ever heightened or improved to that Prerogative to wit of giving Infallible assurance by the Tradition of the present Church unless that Tradition be granted to be Infallible which the Bishop absolutely refuses to admit and thereby leaves both himself and his own Party destitute of such an Infallible ground for beleeving Scripture to be Gods Word as himself confesses necessary for attaining Supernatural and Divine Faith The consequence I leave to the serious consideration of the judicious Reader I beseech God he may make benefit of it to his Eternal Felicity CHAP. X. Of the Universal Church ARGUMENT 1. The Ladies Question what it was and how diverted by the Bishop 2. In what sense the Romane Church is stiled THE Church 3. Every True Church a right or Orthodox Church and why 4. The Ladies Question and A. C's miscited 5. How THE Church and how Particular Churches are called Catholique 6. Why and in what sense 't is not onely true but proper to say the Romane-Catholique Church 7. The Bishops pretended Solutions of Bellarmins Authorities referr'd Chap. 1. to a fitter place here more particularly answered 1. THe Lady at length cuts off the the thred of his Lordships long Discourse and by a Quere gives a rise to a new one Her demand according to Mr. Fishers relation was Whether the Bishop would grant the Romane Church to be the right Church What was the Bishops answer to this He granted that it was But since it seems he repented himself for granting so much For afterwards in his Book he deny'd that either the Question was askt in this form or that the Answer was such Had we the Ladies Question in some Authenticall Autography of her own hand it would decide this verbal Controversie However 't is very likely the Lady asked not this Question out of curiosity since she desired onely to know that which might settle her in point of Religion being at that time so deeply perplexed as she was Now what satisfaction would it have given her to know that the Church of Rome was a particular and true Church in the precise Essence of a Church in which she might possibly be saved if it were neither THE true Church that is the Catholique Church out of which she could not be saved nor the right Church in which she might certainly be saved This onely was her doubt as appears by the whole Dispute this having been inculcated to her by those of the Romane Church and 't is likely she fram'd her question according to her doubt But whatever her words were she was to be understood to demand this alone viz. Whether the Romane were not the True Visible Infallible Church out of which none could be saved for herein she had from the beginning of the Conference desired satisfaction See Mr. Fishers Relation pag. 42. wherein it is said The Lady desired to have proof brought to shew which was that Continual Infallible Visible Church in which one may and out of which one cannot attain Salvation 2. To our present purpose 't is all one in which of these terms the Question was demanded For in the present subject the Romane Church could not be any Church at all unless it were THE Church and a right Church The reason is because St. Peters Successor being the Bishop of Rome and Head of the whole Church as I shall fully prove anon that must needs be THE Church 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 if it be any Church at all In like manner if it were not a right Church it might be a Synagogue or Conventicle but not a True Church of Christ. For that implies a company of men agreeing in the profession of the same Christian Faith and Communion of the same Sacraments under the Government of lawfull Pastours and chiefly of one Vicar of Christ upon Earth 'T is evident this Church can be but One and therefore if it be a True Church it is a Right Church This notwithstanding hinders not the Universal Church from being divided into many Diocesses all which agreeing in the same Faith and Communion of the same Sacraments and in the acknowledgement of the same Vicar of Christ make up One and the same Universal Church But where there is difference in any of these the Congregation that departs from the abovesaid One Faith Communion and Obedience of necessity ceases to be a Church any longer Why so Because Bonum ex integrâ causâ malum ex quolibet defectu 'T is true THE Church signifies most properly either the whole Catholique Church or if it be applied to a particular Church the Chief Church and by consequence the Church of Rome St. Peter having fixed his Chair to that place and by that means made his Successor Bishop of Rome But had St. Peter placed his Chair elsewhere that Church where ever it had been would have been called THE Church as the Roman Church now is The Roman Church therefore is stiled THE Church because 't is the Seat of the Vicar of Christ and chief Pastour of the Church Universal yet all other Churches are true right and Orthodox Churches of Christ otherwise they would be no Churches at all In a word I would fain see some grave Ancient Father who ever maintained a Congregation of Christians to be a true Church and yet held it not to be Orthodox 3. This being so all his Lordships subtleties fall to the ground which suppose that some Congregation of Christians may remain a True Church and yet teach false Doctrine in matters of Faith For how can you call that a True Church in which men are not taught the way to Heaven but to eternall perdition Such needs must be all false Doctrine in matters of Faith because it either teacheth something to be the Word of God which is not or denyes that to be his Word which is
that City Whether he consented with the Catholick Bishops that is saith he with the Romane Church And in this sense the Church of Alexandria according to St. Hierome made it her glory to participate of the Romane Faith And John Patriarch of Constantinople wrote thus to Pope Hermisda We promise saith he not to recite in the sacred Mysteries the names of those who are sever'd from the Communion of the Catholique Church that is to say who consent not in all things with the Sea Apostolick Thus Saint Austin addresses himself to the Donatists telling them that the Succession of the Romane Bishops is the Rock which the proud Gates of Hell overcome not thereby 〈◊〉 that the very Succession of those Bishops is in some true sense the Catholique Church So Optatus Milevitanus after he had said St Peter was head of all the Apostles and that he would have been a Sohismatick who should have erected another Chair against that singular one of St. Peter as also that in that Chair of St. Peter being but one unity was to be kept by all he addes that with Syricius then Pope he himself was united in communion with whom the whole world saith he meaning the whole Catholique Church agrees by COMMUNICATORY LETTERS in one Society of Communion See here how clearly he makes the union with the Bishop of Rome the measure of the Catholick Church which the Bishop calls a Jesuitisme and further proves himself to be in the Catholick Church because he was in Communion with the Sea of Peter St. Herome professes the Church is built upon St. Peters Sea and that whoever eats the Lamb that is pretends to believe in Christ and 〈◊〉 of the Sacraments out of that House that is out of the Communion of that Church is profane and an alien yea that he belongs to Antichrist and not to Christ whoever consents not with the Successor of St. Peter St. Fulgentius stiles the Roman Church The top of the world and Eulalius Bishop of Syracusa tells the same Fulgentius that it would avail him nothing to go into those Countreys which he desired to visit because saith he the Inhabitants thereof certain Religious men were sever'd by a faithless Dissention from the Sea of Peter Lastly Gratian the Emperour made a Decree that the Churches formerly possessed by Heretiques should be restored to those Bishops who were of Pope Damasus his Communion understanding thereby the Communion of the Catholique Church The Communion therefore with the Bishop of Rome in his dayes was the measure and distinctive badge whereby to know who were and who were not of the Catholique Church 6. Hence it appears that what his Lordship is pleas'd to tearm a perfect Jesuitisme in A. C. is a perfect mistake of the Bishop and a losing himself in his own Labyrinth Neither is that vulgar exception against Romane Catholick any better For as all Countreys how distant soever from one another under the Command and Obedience of the Roman Emperour were called the Romane Empire taken collectively because the chief Seat of their Emperour was at Rome So all the Churches subject to the Romane Bishop are call'd the Romane Church because their Supream Head and Pastour under Christ sits at Rome And seeing in the Law of Moses the whole Church of the Israelites was properly called the Jewish Church which name strictly taken belong'd onely to the Tribe of Juda because the chief City of it appertained to that Tribe where the High Priest resided and officiated why may not also the whole Orthodox Christian Church be nam'd the Romane Church because its Supream Bishop keeps his Residence in the Romane City The truth is in all doubts concerning matter of Doctrine recourse is to be had to St. Peters Successor who at least with a Generall Council can infallibly resolve all difficulties This Infallibility is independent of all places insomuch that as St. Peter had been infallible though he had never been at Rome so though his Successor should leave to reside in that City yet should he not leave to be Infallible in the manner specified and should as well then as now judge both the Roman Faith and the Faith of all other Churches This I have said to shew how the Faith of every particular Church is to be examin'd and prov'd to be Catholique to wit by its conformity to the Faith of the Romane Church concluding nothing whither the Pope can transferre his Chair from Rome or not and whether the Clergy of Rome can desert him and the true Faith or not for these Questions make nothing to our present purpose 7. By way of Appendix to this Chapter since so fair an occasion is presented us it will not be amiss to perform what we promis'd chap. 1. viz. to examine a little more fully his Lordships pretended Solutions of Bellarmins Authorities which the Bishop brings § 3. num 3. But my intention is to maintain them so far onely as they make for the Infallible Authority of the Church or of the Pope Defining Articles of Faith in a General Council for we are obliged to no more The first Authority is out of St. Cyprian who shall here speak a little fuller then either the Bishop or Bellarmin cites him to the end the force of his words may the better appeare This holy Martyr writes thus to Cornelius Bish 〈◊〉 of Rome Post ista adhuc insuper Pseudo-episcopo sibi ab Haereticis constituto navigare audent ad Petri Cathedram atque ad Ecclesiam principalem unde unitas Sacerdotalis exorta est à Schismaticis 〈◊〉 literas ferre nec cogitare eos esse Romanos quorum fides Apostolo praedicante laudata est ad quos perfidia habere non 〈◊〉 accessum Why calls he St. Peters Chair Ecclesiam principalem the chief Church but because 't is the Head to which all other Churches must be subordinate in matter of Doctrine The words following signifie as much Unde unitas Sacerdotalis exorta est from which Chair of St. Peter as it were from its fountain unity in Priesthood and consequently unity in Faith is derived Why brings he the Apostle himself as Panegyrist of the Roman Faith Quorum fides Apostolo praedicante laudataest Is it forsooth because no malicious 〈◊〉 in matter of Trust or Errour in Fact against the Discipline and Government of the Church can have access unto them as the Bishop will needs misinterpret the place or rather because no errour in Faith can approach the Sea Apostolique Certain it is Perfidia in this sentence is Diametrically opposed to the Faith of the Romans immediately before commended by the Apostle which was true Christian Faith and consequently it must of necessity be taken for the quite contrary viz. Misbelief or Errour in Faith Hence his other Explication also vanishes into smoak viz. when he asserts that 〈◊〉 non potest may be taken Hyperbolically for non facile potest because this
interpretation suits not with those high Elogium's given by St. Cyprian to the Roman Church as being the Principal Church the Church whence Unity of Faith and Discipline is derived to all other Christian Churches Nay this interpretation gives no more Prerogative to the Church of Rome then to that of Alexandria or 〈◊〉 c. to none of which in those Primitive times Errour in Faith could have easie access At length after much ado he grants perfidia may be taken for Errour in Faith or for perfidious Misbelievers and Schismaticks who had betray'd their Faith but then he cavils with the word Romanos This must be limited onely to those Christians who then lived in Rome to whom quatales as long as they continued such Errour in Faith could have no access Is not this a great praise As if St. Cyprian should say St. Peters Sea could not erre so long as it continued constant in the Truth What Nationall Church nay what faithfull Christian then living might not have challenged as much priviledge as this Finally he concludes St. Cyprian meant no Infallibility in the Roman Church by the sentence alledged because he himself had some Contrast afterward with Pope Stephen touching the Rebaptization of those that were Baptized by Heretiques But his Lordship should have remembred that common distinction of Divines whereby they consider the Pope sometimes as a Private Doctour and sometimes as the Doctour or Pastour universall of all Christians and that St. Cyprian might very well be suppos'd to think the Pope err'd onely in the first sense For Pope Stephen did not properly define any Doctrine in that contestation which was between them but onely commanded that those in Africa should alter nothing that was observed in the ancient practice about receiving such into the Church as had been Baptized by Heretiques Nihil innovetur nisi quod Traditum est neither had the Council of Carthage any just cause to mention it as an errour in St Cypirian for thinking the Pope might erre in quality of a Private Doctour Again if this be a good Argument against the Infallibility of Popes viz. St. Cyprian held Pope Stephen err'd therefore the Pope may erre in matters of Faith it will be good consequence also to say St. Cyprian held Pope Stephen err'd even whilst he maintain'd an universal immemorial Tradition receiv'd and practis'd as such by the whole Catholick Church ever since the Apostles ergo the Pope may erre even whilst he follows such an Universal Immemorial Tradition By this manner of arguing not onely the Popes infallible Authority but the infallible Authority of the most Universal Immemorial Traditions in the Church will be infring'd through St. Cyprians erroneous judgement and if it be plain enough to prove St. Cyprian had no great opinion of the Roman infallibility as the Relatour here sayes it is it will be also plain enough to prove St. Cyprian had no great opinion of the infallibility of such an Universal Tradition which is altogether absurd The Bishops exceptions therefore to this Text of St. Cyprian being of no force it remains that his meaning must be this and no other viz. that the Sea of St. Peter which is the principall of all Churches was so infallibly directed by the Holy Ghost that no errour in Faith could have access to it or be admitted by it if not as a particular Church which is a School-question and as such disputed here by Bellarmin yet at least as the Head of the Universal Church of Christ and as the Fountain of Priestly Unity which St. Cyprian here plainly affirms that Church and Sea to be The second Authority is out of St Jerome who speaks in this manner to Ruffinus Scito Romanam fidem Apostolica voce laudatam cjusmodi praestigias non admittere etiamsi Angelus aliter annunciet quà m semel praedicatum est Pauli auctoritate munitam non posse mutari I will not here dispute whether Bellarmin by Romanam Fidem means Romanos Fideles or no yea I most willingly agree with his Lordship in this that by Romanam Fidem St. Jerome understands the Catholique Faith of Christ. But by the way 't is worth noting how inconsequently our Adversaries speak who usually condemn us for joyning as Synonyma's Roman and Catholick together viz. when we say the Roman-Catholick Faith or the Roman-Catholick Church and yet the Bishop has no other way to avoid the force of St. Jeromes words but by acknowledging in this place that the Roman and Catholick is all one Well then be it granted that in St. Jeromes time the Roman was accounted the Catholique Faith what will this advantage the Bishop Very much as he imagins at least For thus he discourses The Roman being here taken for the Catholique Faith and the Catholique Faith being uncapable of any change or of admitting any praestigias that is Illusions or Alterations it will of necessity follow that Saint Hieromes words evince not the perpetuall unchangeableness of the Faith as taught and professed in the Church of Rome Excellent But did not his Lordship see how easily this exposition of his might be blown away Can it be thought a thing any way suitable to Saint Hieromes wisdom to tell Ruffinus so great a Scholar as he was known to be that the Catholique Faith in abstracto in its own precise nature can never be any other then what it is knew not Ruffinus as well as St. Hierome himself that neither Faith nor any thing else can change its essence would he make St. Hierome so simple as to perswade Ruffinus not to go about to undermine the people of Rome for such a reason as this because the Catholique Faith abstracted from those who teach and maintain it can never be but what it is essentially Seeing that notwithstanding any such Immutability it might easily enough be extirpated out of the hearts of the people of Rome and the contrary errours admitted how unalterable soever the Faith in it self be The unchangeableness therefore of the Catholique Faith in this sense could no way hinder Ruffinus from spreading such Books among the Romans as might endanger their perversion but rather the Immutable Faith of the Sea Apostolique so highly commended both by the Apostle and St. Hierome which is founded upon such a Rock that even an Angel himself is not able to shake it The third Authority is taken out of St. Gregory Nazianzen whose Elogium in behalf of the Roman Church is very Emphatical Vetus Roma sayes he ab antiquis temporibus habet rectam fidem semper eam retinet sicut decet urbem quae toti orbi praesidet semper de Deo integram 〈◊〉 habere For the clearing of which passage I say first the Bishop is not faithful in his Translation of him for he leaves out the word Ever in the latter part of the sentence whereas St. Gregory speaking of the sound and entire Faith of the Roman Church sayes that Rome alwayes holds it as becomes
If there have been a change let it appear when and in what the change was made For the same reason also if it be now the true Church it was ever so having alwayes adhered to St. Peters Successor and the Doctrine by him delivered 1. But the Relatour asserts that the Church of Rome was and was not a right and Orthodox Church before Luther made a breach from it For in the prime times of it it was a most right and Orthodox Church but if we look upon the immediate times before Luther then it was a corrupt and tainted Church In this I say the Relatour begs the question for the Roman Church remained alwayes the same it was from the beginning because in this dispute the Roman signifies the Catholique Church according to that of Dr. Stapleton Apud veteres pro eodem habita fuit Ecclesia Romana Ecclesia Catholica amongst the Ancients saith he the Roman Church and the Catholique Church were taken for the same We adde they are now also to be held for the same and the reason given by Stapleton whatever the Bishop thinks doth not at all destroy the said Identity His reason is quia ejus communio erat evidenter certissimè cum totâ Catholicâ because the Communion of the Roman Church was most certainly and evidently with the whole Catholique and by consequence the whole Catholique with it Wherefore as the Catholique Church continued ever the same and incorrupt so did the Roman which is the same with the Catholique This A. C. sufficiently express'd when he mention'd the Roman Church not onely as it contain'd the City and Diocess of Rome but all that agreed with it in Doctrine and Communion For 't is clear by Roman Church in that sense he could understand no other but the Catholique We deny then that any abuses or errours did at any time more corrupt or taint the Roman Church then they did the Catholique Wherefore it seems very strange to hear his Lordship say that the Roman Church never was nor ever can be THE RIGHT or the HOLY CATHOLIQUE Church For when it was a right Church as he himself grants it once was if we take it in A. C's sense viz. not onely for that Church which is within the City or Diocess of Rome but for all that agree with it what difference will he finde betwixt the Holy Catholique Church and all others agreeing with the Church of Rome What he asserts of the immediate times before Luther or some ages before that then the Roman Church was a corrupt and tainted Church and far from being a right Church sounds very harshly in a Christians ears For if in all those ages the Roman Church that is the Church of Rome and all other Churches agreeing with her were wrong corrupted and tainted and all those likewise that disagreed from her viz. Hussites Albigenses Waldenses Wickleffists Greeks Abyssins Armenians c. had in them corrupt Doctrine during those ages as 't is certain they had neither could the Relatour deny it I say if the Roman Church was thus corrupt it follows that not onely for some time but for many ages before Luther yea even up to the Apostles times there was no one visible Church untainted incorrupt right Orthodox throughout the whole world And consequently that during the said ages every good Christian was in conscience oblig'd in some point of Christian belief or other to contradict the Doctrine and desert the Communion of all visible Churches in the world since no Church not confessedly Hereticall can be shew'n that did not communicate both in Doctrine and Discipline with the Roman during all that time Whence it would further follow that Schisme or Separation from the externall Communion of the whole Church might be not onely lawfull which is contrary to all the Holy Fathers as Dr. Hammond well proves in his Book of Schisme but even necessary which is impossible as being contrary to the very essentiall Predicates of Schisme which is defined to be a voluntary or wilfull Departure such as no just cause or reason can be given of it from the Communion of the whole Church 2. His great Marginal Note out of Petrus de Alliaco signifies but little For as it mentions not any false Doctrines taught by the Roman Church so neither doth it threaten that any shall be taught by it after his time but clearly speaks of Schismes and Heresies rais'd against the Church not foster'd by her in all parts of Christendom Otherwise we must esteem that learned Cardinal a man either very ignorant or very impious to make the Church it self Ecclesiam Dei as he speaks guilty of Schismes and Heresies which even in our Adversaries opinion are held to be incompatible with the Church of God and destructive of it 'T is certain Bellarmin acknowledges no errours in Popes but onely as they were private Doctours he admits not any errours to have been defined by them by Authority properly Papall or ex Cathedrâ for Christs Doctrine or to be believ'd by the whole Church And indeed he even clears them of Errours in the first kinde so far as to shew that they did never so much as personally or in quality of private Doctors erre or teach any errour in matter of Faith publiquely defined and admitted for such by the whole Church which though it be a very pious opinion yet no man is oblig'd to embrace it as a point of Faith For Catholique Faith in this particular onely obliges us to maintain that the Pope is Infallible when he defines with a General Council To what good purpose then does the Relatour in his Margin pin this following assertion upon Bellarmin Et Papas quosdam graves errores seminasse in Ecclesiâ Christi luce clarius est there being nothing like such a Proposition in the whole Chapter cited by the Bishop Almainus speaks not of Errours in Faith at all much less doth he say the Popes taught the whole Church such errours but onely of errours or rather abuses in point of Manners which might happen by the bad examples of Popes or their remissness in the execution of their Pastoral office But what if some of them should be prov'd to have taught errours in Doctrine as private men that destroyes not the Infallibility of the Church nor of the Pope as we maintain it no more then his permitting or suffering others through his negligence to teach such errours Hence also his Simile of Tares sow'n among Wheat is nothing to the purpose For if he means by Tares sow'n false Doctrine publiquely and definitively taught by the Pope or receiv'd by the Church in this sense we absolutely deny that ever any Tares were sow'n or ever shall be sow'n in the field of Gods Church But if he mean sow'n onely by private persons and growing up but for some time through negligence of particular Pastours until the Supreme Pastour either by himself or assisted with his Council
lye But whether the Bishop said the Protestants did make the Schisme or the Rent or a Division or Breach 't is not a straw's matter The words 't is true are different but the sense is the same Well therefore might the Jesuit be said to relate at least in sense what the Bishop utter'd without either enterfeiring or shuffling His Lordship therefore ought not to have boggled at this but clearly have granted That Protestants did depart from the Roman Church and gat the name of Protestants by Protesting against her for this is so apparent that the whole world acknowledges it and the Relatour himself cannot deny it without retracting his own words § 20. num 5. pag. 131. where speaking of Luther he grants he made a breach from it And 't is a very poor shift to say Protestants gat not that name by protesting against the Church of Rome but against her Errours and Superstitions for who sees not that this is the common pretext of all Heretiques when they sever themselves from the Roman Catholique Church There is nothing more ordinary with Protestants then to reproach the Roman Church and belch out virulent execrations against her yet all must be understood forsooth not against the Church but against her Errours As if Mr. Fisher and A. C. could be ignorant of this or stood in need of such a needless Comment to understand what Protestants mean when they protest or use uncivil language against the Church But sayes the Bishop if you take the whole Body and Cause of Protestants together you cannot so easily charge them with departing from the Church I know not well what this passage means but desire to have any either whole Body or part of Protestants shew'n who by their Professions and practices did not effectively make a true and real departure from the Roman Church and in so doing remained separate from the whole Church Nor doth it much mend the matter to say as he doth in the Margent that the Protestation made by his party in the Year 1529. from whence they took their name of Protestants was not simply against the Roman Church but against an Edict viz. that of Worms which commanded the restoring of all things to their former Estate without any Reformation For to stand as they did for Innovation in matters of Religion and to protest against restoring of things to their former estate which had been unwarrantably and wickedly alter'd by certain lawless people without any colour of Authority was surely in effect to protest against the Roman Church and seeing the things protested against were points of Faith and Christian piety wherein the Roman and all other true visible Churches in the world agreed to protest against them was with the same breath to protest against all the particular true visible Churches in the Christian world which none but notorious Heretiques or Schismatiques use to do It is not then the word Protestation that we dislike so much but the Thing that is the Protesting and standing for novel and corrupt Tenets against the ancient and undefiled Doctrine of the Roman Catholique Church Besides 't is worth the noting that the Relatour here addes a little to his Author when he sayes the Edict of Worms was for the restoring of all things to their former estatc without any Reformation at all as if the Edict had cut off all hopes of Reformation even in those things which needed it viz. Abuses in Manners and Discipline which is most false and confuted by evidence of fact For even the Popes themselves alwayes professed reformation in such things to be necessary and intended by them according as it was not long after effectually ordain'd by the Council of Trent 5. But A. C. sayes the Bishop goes on and tells us that though the Church of Rome did thrust Protestants from her by Excommunication yet they had first divided themselves by obstinate holding and teaching Opinions contrary to the Roman Faith and practice of the Church which to do St. Bernard thinks is pride and St. Austin madness At this his Lordship takes several exceptions and first begins with the supposition of Errors and Superstitions in the Roman Church which in my opinion saith he were the prime cause of the Division and forced many men to hold and teach contrary to the Roman Faith To which we answer that the Bishop of Rome being St. Peters Successor in the Government of the Church and Infallible at least with a General Council it is impossible that Protestants or other Sectaries should ever finde such Errors or Corruptions definitively taught by him or receiv'd by the Church as should either warrant them to preach against her Doctrine or in case she refuses to conform to their preaching lawfully to forsake her Communion Secondly he quarrels with A. C. for styling it the Roman Faith when he speaks of the general Faith of all Christians It was wont sayes the Bishop to be the Christian Faith but now all 's Roman with A. C. and the Jesuit But first 't is no incongruity of speech to style the Christian or Catholique Faith sometimes the Roman For the Bishop of Rome being Head of the whole Christian or Catholique Church the Faith approv'd and taught by him as Head thereof though it be de facto the general Faith and profession of all Christians may yet very well be called the Roman Faith why because the Root Origin and chief Foundation under Christ of its beingpreach't and believ'd by Christians is at Rome And there is nothing more frequent then Denominations taken à parte digniori Again here 's a manifest robbery of part of A. C's words for which his Lordship is bound to restitution A. C. as it were foreseeing this cavil warily addes to Roman Faith these words and practice of the Church which the Relatour for reasons best known to himself craftily leaves out and makes him speak as if the opinions by which the Protestants stand divided from the Roman Church and for which they are excommunicated by her were onely contrary to the Roman Faith as Protestants usually understand the word Roman viz. as contradistinguisht from Catholique or the Church in general whereas A. C. to prevent any such mistake as expresly as he could said they were contrary both to the Roman Faith and practice of the Church But we must excuse our Adversary for this slip though it be an unhandsome one For the truth is he had no other way to hide the guiltiness of his own pen in styling the Doctrines and practices of the Church Corruptions and Superstitions For to have charg'd the whole Church with Superstitions and Corruptions had been perhaps a little too bold a check especially for a person of his Lordships temper and would have brought him too apparently under the lash of St. Bernards and St. Austins Censures intimated by A. C. whereas to charge onely the Church of Rome with them is a thing the modestest man in all that party
findes no difficulty to do Thirdly his Lordship excepts against the Application of the places brought by A. C. out of St. Bernard and St. Austin But we answer his Exceptions do not weaken the force of the said places For first concerning that of St. Bernard let us suppose as the Relatour contends that St. Bernard by those words Quae major superbia c. What greater pride can there be then for one man to preferre his judgement before the whole Congregation as if he alone had the Spirit of God mean't onely that particular Congregation to which he was then preaching yet is his saying not unaptly apply'd by A. C. to our present purpose by an Argument à minore ad majus to shew the more exorbitant pride of those who preferre their private fanatick opinions before the judgement of the whole Catholique Church This certainly Protestants did by their Solemne Protestation and obstinate maintaining their private opinions What the Relatour addes That it is one thing for a private man to preferre his judgement before the whole Congregation and another thing for an intelligent man in some things unsatisfied modestly to propose his doubts even to the Catholique Church is of no advantage to him For first though we should grant his Lordship that Martin Luther Ulrick 〈◊〉 John Calvin Theodore Beza John Knox and the rest of that crew were to be accounted Intelligent Persons yet will he or can he say they propos'd their Doubts modestly to the Church surely not and whoever sayes so will easily be convinc'd of ignorance in their opinions or practices But put case a more modest propounding of Doubts had been used as the Bishop seems to wish yet unless the Doubts were in points undecided by the Church the modest proposall of them could not at all help the Protestant cause in regard their Doubts were in points of Faith already determined for such by authority of the Catholique Church to question any of which with what seeming modesty soever is sinful Heretical and damnable His exceptions against A. C's interpretation of St. Austin are no less weak The Holy Doctor affirms that it is a most insolent madness for a man to dispute whether that ought to be to be done which is usually held and done by the whole Church The Bishop first excepts that there is not a word of the Roman Church but onely of the Catholique yet having often shew'n that the Roman Church and the Catholique are all one and seeing A. C. adds to Roman Faith the practice of the Church this Authority remains still entire against him Next he sayes A. C. applies this Text of St. Austin to the Roman Faith whereas 't is spoken of the Rites and Ceremonies of the Church But first I answer A. C. applies the place both to the Roman Faith and practice of the Church of which practice the place is most properly understood even in that sense which the Bishop himself gives to the words Secondly if it were madness to dispute against the Rites and Ceremonies of the Church much greater would it be to dispute against any point of Faith held by the Church so that the Application of the place is still good by the Rule à minore ad majus and reaches to every person that in any matter whatever obstinately opposes himself against the Church of God The reason may be because there is alwayes some point or matter of faith involv'd in every universally-practis'd Rite and Ceremony of the Church Wherefore a pertinacious defending of any point whatsoever contrary to what the Catholique Church teacheth is by St. Austin tearm'd a most insolent madness We deny not but a right-sober man modestly proceeding may in some case dispute a point with the Roman either Church or Prelate as Irenaeus did with Pope Victor in the Controversie which arose toward the end of the second Century provided it be done with Submission and profession of Due Obedience to that Church and Prelate which can never be unless the dispute be about matters as yet undecided by the Church 6. Touching A. C's illation I answer since it is certain the whole Catholique or Roman Church in the sense often explicated cannot erre A. C. doth well inferre that there can be no just cause to make a divorce or Schism from it The Relatour grants that the whole Church cannot universally erre in absolute fundamental Doctrine and blames Bellarmin for needlesly busying himself to prove that the visible Church can never fall into Heresie But I answer Bellarmins labour was not needless since Protestants grant not the Church exempt from all Errours save onely in Fundamentals as they call them whereas Bellarmin proves it equally of all Fundamentals or not-Fundamentals Moreover Bellarmin well observes that Protestants generally grant this onely to the Invisible Church whereas he proves 〈◊〉 of the Visible and though the Bishop in the Margent endeavours to shew they hold the same also of the Visible Church yet this onely proves that Protestants contradict one another which we deny not and Bellarmin likewise observes it elsewhere yea Calvin himself here cited by the Bishop when he saith the Church cannot erre addes this restriction if she do not propose Doctrine besides the Scripture So that if she do it seems according to him she may erre But I must confess I have often desired and do yet much long to know which are Doctrines absolutely Fundamental and necessary to all mens salvation according to the opinion of Protestants I believe scarce any man will be able to set them down Our Tenet is that the Catholique Church is Infallible in all points of Faith and that whatever is sufficiently proposed to us by the Catholique Church cannot be denied under pain of damnation and consequently is Fundamental to us and to all true Christians So that these following words of the Bishop viz. That she may erre in Superstructures and Deductions and other by and unnecessary Truths if her curiosity or other weakness carry her beyond or cause her to fall short of her Rule are injurious to the Church and inconsistent with that Prerogative of Holiness which as he himself in this very place confesses alwayes accompanies the true Church 7. This Holiness consists chiefly in the verity of Faith So the Relatour himself professes in these words The Holiness of the Church consists as much if not more in the Verity of the Faith as in the Integrity of Manners c. Insomuch that if the Church failed in the verity of Faith she could be no longer Holy nay it would follow that the Gates of Hell had prevailed much against her contrary to the promse of Christ. I assert therefore that the present Church is no more liable to errour through curiosity or weakness then was the Primitive nor the Vicar of Christ with a General Council more subject to erre upon that account then were the Apostles of Christ. In the following words the Relatour to
use his own language enterfeires shrewdly For speaking of the whole Church Militant he tells us if she can erre either FROM the Foundation or IN it she can be no longer Holy and that Article of the Creed is gone I BELIEVE THE HOLY CATHOLIQUE CHURCH yet presently after speaking of the same Church he saith If she erre IN the Foundation that is in some one or more Fundamental points of Faith then she may be a Church of Christ still but not Holy but becomes Heretical These words I say hang not well together for an Heretical Congregation cannot be a Church of Christ because by pertinacious and obstinate erring especially against the Fundamental and prime Articles of the Creed it becomes neither Holy nor Church of Christ believing no more any part of Christian Doctrine with Divine and Supernatural Faith then if it had faln into a general Apostacy from the whole Foundation 'T is therefore very strange to hear him say that if the Church erre in one or more Fundamental points then she may be a Church of Christ still though not Holy but Heretical Are there two sorts of Christs-Churches upon earth one Holy the other unholy one Catholique the other Heretical Is a Church erring in the very Foundation it self and that in more then one point of it a Church of Christ still what calls he then I pray the Synagogue of Satan Had he so quite forgot that by the unanimous consent of all Christians both Ancient and Modern all Heretical Congregations whatever are esteemed sever'd from the Catholique Church I adde therefore and confidently averre that any errour in Faith whatever much more in and against the Foundation pertinaciously defended against the Church renders the Congregation that maintains it no Church of Christ. No errours thus defended are to be accounted of mean alloy or weak tincture they are all dyed in grain they all remove Holiness from the Assembly that so erres and wholly un-Church it The reason hereof hath been given above viz. because all such errour implicitely and virtually at least either affirms something to be Gods word which is not or denies that to be his word which is it either asserts errour to be Gods word or Gods word to be an errour both which being in so high a degree injurious and derogatory to the Veracity of God can be no less then Mortal Sins against the vertue of Divine Faith and by consequence destructive of it which is also in effect warranted by that saying of our Saviour in the Gofpel Si Ecclesiam non audierit c. If he will not hear the Church let him be to thee as a Heathen or a Publican that is account him no Christian whatever he seems to profess Hence it appears that A. C's inference was very reasonable when he told the Bishop he might safely grant not onely that Protestants did make the Division but further that it was ill done of them who first made the Separation I may justly adde it is likewise ill done of those who continue in it For as all the Fathers teach and the most learned of English Protestants acknowledge there neither was nor ever can be just cause given for any man or number of men particular Church or Churches to separate themselves or continue in Schisme out of the Communion of the Holy Catholique Church CHAP. 12. Of keeping Faith with Heretiques ARGUMENT 1. That Faith ought to be kept with Heretiques is the constant Tenet of all Catholique Divines 2. What kinde of Safe-conduct John Huss had from the Emperour and Hierome of Prague from the Council of Constance 3. The Councils Decree in this business insincerely cited by the Bishop and Simancha egregiously Sophisticated 4. Neither the Council nor the Emperour justly blameable in their proceedings 5. The absurd partiality of Protestants imposing most unequal conditions upon the Church while they admit not any to be impos'd on themselves 1. MR. Fisher having in the precedent discourse briefly yet very justly and truly charged Protestants with the Crime of Schisme A. C. prosecutes the matter and undertakes to justifie and clear the Church's proceedings towards them from such imputatitions as they usually cast upon her To this purpose he thinks fit to minde his Adversary that after this Breach was made the Church of Rome did invite the Protestants publickly with Safe Conduct to Rome to a General Council freely to speak what they could for themselves This passage of A. C. gives the Bishop a new Theme viz. concerning keeping Faith with Heretiques a Theme which for the most part our Adversaries love to dwell upon as thinking they have some great advantage against us therein The Relatour glosses upon A. C's words and tells us this kinde Invitation was onely to bring them within our Net that the Conduct granted was Safe for going thither viz. to Rome but not for coming thence that the Jesuits write and maintain That Faith given is not to be kept with Heretiques that John Huss and Hierome of Prague were burnt for all their Safe Conduct Thus the Bishop Beoanus treating this matter very well observes that our Adversaries in this are like the Pharisees of old who though they heard from our Saviours own mouth that they should give to Caesar the things which belong to Caesar yet had the face openly before Pilate to accuse him of forbidding Tribute to be given to Caesar. In like manner we do both privately and publiquely in word and writing teach and profess that Faith is to be kept as well with Heretiques as Catholiques yet our Adversaries by their clamorous accusations seem as if they would force us to hold the contrary whether we will or no. But before I prove that Faith hath been kept with Heretiques even in those examples which the Bishop alledges I observe that he himself keeps not Faith with Catholiques at least in his Citations otherwise he would not have miscited his Adversaries words for thus he makes him speak But A. C. goes on saith he and tells us that after this Breach was made yet the Church of Rome was so kinde and carefull to seek Protestants that she invited them publiquely with Safe Conduct to Rome to a General Council freely to speak what they could for themselves Whereas the words of A. C. speaking of the Church of Rome's proceeding with Protestants in this case are onely these Which did AT FIRST seek to recall them from their novel Opinions and AFTER THEIR BREACH did permit yea invited them publiquely to Rome to a General Council c. In A. C's words rightly cited the Church of Rome is onely said to seek to recall Protestants from their novel opinions or errours a thing no way liable to cavil whereas in the Bishops allegation of the words they are so plac'd and such words of his own added to them as if the Church of Rome by her seeking had aim'd at nothing else but how to entrap Protestants when A. C. not
Priestly Function to have any commerce with Rome and a capital crime even to hear Mass or but harbour a Priest And what I pray is true piety in Gods sight if all these be capital offences But enough of this Parallel His Lordship even during the Schisme of Jeroboam will yet needs have Israel a True Church But I answer They were no true Church because they rejected the Authority of the High Priest refused to communicate in the Sacrifices and Worship of God at Jerusalem and adored the golden Calves of Jeroboam 'T is true there were many holy persons inhabitants of the same Countrey with the rest who kept themselves undefiled from those Idolatries and Divisions who though they were not perhaps suffered to go up to Jerusalem to worship yet never consented to go to Dan or Bethel These we acknowledge remained parts of the True Church notwithstanding the Schisme as many Catholiques do now continue true members of the Roman Church though living dispersedly in Heretical Countreys And the Prophets who were amongst them were also a part of the True Church at Jerusalem for which reason for the most part the Kings of Israel persecuted them as Catholiques also now are commonly persecuted by Heathen Mahumetan and Heretical Princes The having-Prophets therefore among them argues the Ten Tribes no more to be parts of the true Church then it would argue the Protestants in Holland to be parts of the Roman Church if some Roman Catholique should be found among them having the spirit of Prophesie But his Lordship will prove by some Texts of Scripture that the ten Tribes continued a Church notwithstanding their Schisme and Idolatry But to that of 〈◊〉 9. 17. I answer first this Prophet prophesied both against Juda and Israel and the word Israel being an Appellative common to all the seed of Jacob 't is not certain he alwayes means by it the ten Schismatical Tribes onely and not sometimes the Tribe of Juda also Secondly I say the Relatours Gloss addes to the Text. God doth not there threaten to cast Israel away in non Ecclesiam as the Bishop speaks that is to un-church them as if forsooth before that threatning they had been a true Church this is the Relatours own voluntary addition or fiction rather but he threatens simply to deprive them of his wonted protection to deliver them into their enemies hands and as the very next words shew to make them wanderers among the Nations that should take them captive To that of 4. Reg. 9. 6. where they are called the people of the Lord I answer in a general sense all Abrahams seed according to the flesh are styled the people of God by reason of that promise of God made to Abraham Gen. 18. I will be a God to thee and to thy seed after thee but Abraham's seed only according to the spirit that is the faithful make the True Church To his last Argument which he advanceth as ad hominem that Multitude is a note of the Church I answer we do not contend that of Christians the greater multitude is an infallible mark of the true Church There was a time when the Arrians were reported to be more numerous then the Orthodox 3. The Procession of the Holy Ghost from the Son as well as from the Father was a Truth alwayes acknowledg'd in the Church of God and receiv'd in General Councils long before the Controversie touching that point arose between the Latins and the Greeks Witness that Epistle of St. Cyril Patriarch of Alexandria which he wrote as Bellarmin tells us from the Council of Alexandria to that of Ephesus wherein are these words Spiritus appellatus est veritatis veritas Christus est unde ab isto similiter sicut ex Patre procedit The Holy Ghost saith he is called the Spirit of Truth and Christ is the Truth whence follows that he proceeds as well from him as from the Father Thus he Now this Epistle of St. Cyril and the Council of Alexandria as Bellarmin likewise shews was receiv'd not only by the Council of Ephesus which was about the year of our Lord 434. but also by four other General Councils held in Greece it self and consequently the Doctrine of the Holy Ghosts Procession was a Truth so anciently known in the Church that it could not well seem a novelty to any when the express confession of it came to be more frequent and publick in the Latin Church It matters not much in what capacity it was promulgated by the Church of Rome whether as a particular Church as the Bishop contends or as Head of the Church Universal as we think For either way it could not but be very lawful for that Church to do it nor can it help his Lordships cause which way foever it was done For supppose a particular Church may in some case promulgate an Orthodox Truth not as yet Catholiquely receiv'd or defined by the whole Church doth it thence follow that a particular Church or Churches may repeal and reverse any thing that the whole Church hath already Catholickly and Definitively received Surely no. Yet this is his Lordships and the Protestants case 4. Hence the Relatours egregious Fallacy is manifest while from the adding of a Word onely by some particular Church for Explication of a known ancient and generally received Truth such as was the Procession of the Holy Ghost both from the Father and Son he pretends to inferre both these Propositions viz. That a particular Church may publish any thing that is Catholick where the whole Church is silent and that a particular Church may reform any thing that is not Catholique where the whole Church is negligent or will not For though the former of these Propositions be not so enormious as the latter because it supposes not any actual errour contrary to Catholique Doctrine to be maintained by the whole Church but onely a Non declaration or at most some negligence to promulgate a Catholick Truth whereas the other supposes errour of something uncatholick to be taught or admitted by the whole Church yet are they both utterly Paradoxical and False and no way to be inferr'd from the example or practise of the Roman Church in declaring the Holy Ghosts Proceeding from the Son for that was of a point anciently and generally received in the Church Much 〈◊〉 can it justifie the Protestants proceedings whose Declarations Promulgations Confessions or what ever you will call them made upon their several pretended reformations were onely of new and unheard of Doctrines directly contrary to what the Catholick Church universally held and taught before them for Catholique Truths For about the year of our Lord 1517. when their pretended Reformations began was not the Real Presence of our Saviours Body and Blood in the Eucharist by a true substantial change of Bread and Wine generally held by the whole Church Was not the Real Sacrifice of the Mass then generally believ'd Was not Veneration
any thing else that they pluckt down Altars burnt Images defac'd the Monuments of the Dead brake the Church-windows threw down Crosses tore the Holy Vestments in pieces c. but because they thought them all Instruments of Idolatry and false Worship as they tearm it was it for any thing else that they possest themselves of Ecclesiastical Benefices took upon them Spiritual Jurisdictions and Pastoral Charges by force of Secular Power and Authority from those that were in lawful and quiet possession of them according to the Canons of the Church but because according to the Maximes of their new Belief they held the old Pastours of the Church to be False Teachers and their Function neither lawful nor of use among Christians 'T is clear then that the Sacrilegious works of the Reformers and the wicked Tenets of the Reformation differ onely as the Tree and its Fruit they are not altogether the same but yet the one springs connaturally from the other the one begets and bears the other as naturally as a corrupt Tree bears bad fruit Nor can his Lordship so easily wash his hands of the guilt as he seems willing to do by saying they are long since gone to God to answer it as if none could be involv'd in this crime but onely the first Actors Are the Successors then Free No such matter Both the sin and the guilt too will be found entail'd upon all that succeed them in the Fruits of their Sacrilegious actings since they have no better ground nor title to enjoy them then those who first acted But I shall not prosecute this Theam any further Neither shall I say much to his Memorandum in the end of this Paragraph where he pretends to minde us of the General Church forced for the most part under the Government of the Roman Sea By what force I pray Is it possible or can it enter into the judgement of any reasonable man in good earnest to believe that a single Bishop of no very large Diocess if it reacht no further then most Protestants will have it should be able by force to bring into subjection so many large Provinces of Christendom as confessedly did acknowledge the Popes power when the pretended Reformation began Force implies resistance of the contrary part and something done against the will and good liking of the party forced But can his Lordship shew any resistance made by any particular Church or Churches against that Authority which the Bishop of Rome claim'd and exercis'd confessedly over all the Western Provinces of Christendom when the Reformers first began their resistances Does any Classick Author of present or precedent times mention or complain of any such force 〈◊〉 Rather doth not experience teach us that whensoever any Novellist started up and preacht any thing contrary to the Popes Authority the Bishops of other Provinces were as ready to censure and forbid him as the Pope himself Are not all Eeclesiastical Monuments full of examples in this kinde This therefore is as false a calumny as any and serves onely to lengthen the list of our Adversaries 〈◊〉 but false Pasquils CHAP. 14. Protestants further convinc'd of Schisme ARGUMENT 1. A. C's Parallel defended 2. Protestants proceedings against their own eperatists justifie the Churches proceeding against them 3. No danger in acknowledging the Church Infallible 4. Points Fundamental necessary to be determinately known and why 5. The four places of Scripture for the Churches Infallibility weigh'd the second time and maintain'd 6. Why the Church cannot teach errour in matter of Faith 7. How she becomes Infallible by vertue of Christs prayer for St. Peter Luc. 22. 31. 8. The Relatours various Trippings and Windings observ'd MR. Fisher askt his Lordship QUO JUDICE doth it appear that the Church of Rome hath err'd in matters of Faith as not thinking it equity that Protestants in their own cause should be Accusers Witnesses and Judges of the Roman Church The Relatour in answer to this confesseth that no man in common equity ought to be suffer'd to be Accuser Witness and Judge in his own cause But yet addes there is as little reason or equity that any man who is to be accused should be the accused and yet Witness and Judge in his own cause If the first may hold saith he no man shall be innocent and if the last 〈◊〉 will be nocent To this I answer We have already prov'd the 〈◊〉 Church in the sense we understand Roman Infallible and therefore she ought not to be accus'd for teaching errours Neither can she submit her self to any Third to be judg'd in this point both because there is no such competent Third to be found as also because it were in effect to give away her own right yea indeed to destroy her self by suffering her Authority to be question'd in that whereon all Certainty of Faith depends for such is the Catholique Churches Infallibility 1. Again I make this demand Suppose that Nicolas the Deacon or some other Heretique of the Apostles times separating themselves from the Apostles and Christians that adhered to them should have accus'd them of false doctrine and being for such presumption excommunicated by the Apostles would it have been a just plea think you for the said condemned Heretiques to have pretended that the Apostles were the party accused and that they could not be Witnesses and Judges too in their own cause but that the trial of their doctrine ought to be resert'd to a Third person I suppose no man will be so absurd I say then Whatever shall be answer'd in defence of the Apostles proceeding will be found both proper and sufficient to defend the Church against her Adversaries For if the Apostles might judge those Heretiques in the Controversies abovesaid then the persons accused may sometimes and in some causes be Judges of those that accuse them and if the Infallibility of the Apostles judgement together with the Fullness of their Authority were a sufficient ground and reason for them to exercise the part and office of Judges in their own cause seeing both these do still remain in the Church viz. Infallibility of Judgement and Fullness of Authority doubtless the lawful Pastours thereof duly assembled and united with their Head may lawfully nay of duty ought to judge the Accusers of their doctrine whoever they be according to that acknowledged Prophesie concerning Christs Church Isa. 54. 17. after our Adversaries own Translation Every tongue that ariseth against thee in judgement or that accuses thee of errour thou shalt condemn Protestants indeed having neither competent Authority nor so much as pretending to Infallibility in their doctrine cannot rationally be permitted to be Accusers and Witnesses against the Roman Church much less Judges in their own cause Wherefore A.C. addes that the Church of Rome is the Principal and Mother-Church and that therefore though it be against common equity that Subjects and Children should be Accusers Witnesses Judges and Executioners against their Prince and Mother in
General Church as to make it erre generally in any one point of Divine Truth and much less to teach any thing by its full Authority to be mater of Faith which is contrary to divine Truth expressed or involved in Scriptures rightly understood And that therefore no Reformation of Faith could be needful in the General Church but onely in particular Churches citing to this purpose Matth. 16. 18. Luc. 22. 32. John 14. 16. In answer to which the Bishop onely tells us how unwilling he is in this troublesome and quarrelling age to meddle with the erring of the Church in geveral he addes though the Church of England professeth that the Roman Church hath err'd even in matters of Faith yet of the erring of the Church in general she is modestly silent It matters not what she sayes or sayes not in this but our question is what she must say if she speak consequently either to her principles or practise For this is certain that many of those particular points of Faith which are rejected as errours by the English Protestant Church were held and taught for points of Faith by all the visible Churches in Christendom when this pretended Reformation began If therefore they be dangerous errours as the Bishop with his English Church professes they are by good consequence it must follow that the English Protestant Church holds that the whole Catholique Church hath erred dangerously But how unwillingly soever his Lordship seems to meddle with the 〈◊〉 of the Church in general yet at last he meddles with it and that very freely too for in effect he professes she may erre in any point of Faith whatsoever that is not simply necessary to all mens salvation Hear his own words in answer to A. C.'s assertion that the General Church could not erre in point of Faith If saith the Bishop he means no more then this viz. that the whole universal Church of Christ cannot universally erre in any point of Faith simply necessary to all mens Salvation he fights against no Adversary but his 〈◊〉 fiction What is this but tacitely to grant that the whole Church of Christ may universally erre in any point of Faith not simply necessary to all mens Salvation Is not this great modesty towards the Church Nay a great satisfaction to all Christians who by this opinion must needs be left in a wood touching the knowledge of Points absolutely necessary to their salvation 3. But the Bishop suspects a dangerous consequence would be grounded upon this if it should be granted that the Church could not erre in any point of Divine Truth in general though by sundry consequences deduced from principles of Faith especially if she presume to determine without her proper Guide the Scripture as he affirms Bellarmin to say she may I answer When God himself whose Wisdom is such that he cannot be deceiv'd and Verasity such that he cannot deceive speaks by his Organ the Holy Church that is by a General Council united with its Head the Vicar of Christ what danger is there of Errour As concerning Bellarmin who is falsly accus'd I wonder the Relatour should not observe a main difference between defining matters absolutely without Scripture and defining without express Scripture which is all that Bellarmin affirms For though the points defined be not expresly in Scriptures yet they may be there implicitly and rightly deduc'd from Scripture As for example no man reads the Doctrine of Christs Divinity as 't is declar'd by the Council of Nice and receiv'd for Catholique Faith even by Protestants themselves expresly in Scripture it is not there said in express terms that he is of the same substance with the Father or that he is God of God Light of Light and True God of True God c. and yet who doubts but the sense of this Doctrine is contain'd in Scripture and consequently that the Defining of this and other points of like nature by the Church was not done absolutely speaking without Scripture Besides who knows not that the Scriptures do expresly commend Traditions Wherefore if the Doctrine defin'd for matter of Faith be according to Tradition though it be not express'd in Scripture yet the Church does not define it without Scripture but according to Scripture following therein the Rule which is given her in Scripture But 't is further urged by the Bishop that A. C. grants the Church may be ignorant of some Divine Truths which afterwards it may learn by study of Scripture or otherwise Therefore in that state of Ignorance she may both erre and teach her errour yea and teach that to be Divine Truth which is not nay perhaps teach that as matter of Divine Truth which is contrary to Divine Truth He addes to this that we have as large a promise for the Churches knowing all points of Divine Truth as A. C. or any Jesuit can produce for her not erring in any Thus the Bishop To which I answer The Argument were there any force in it would conclude as well against the Infallibility of the Apostles as of the present Catholique Church For doubtless the Apostles themselves were ignorant of many Divine Truths though the promise intimated by the Bishop of being taught all truth John 16. 13. was immediately directed to them and yet 't is granted by Protestants that the Apostles could not teach that to be Divine Truth which was not much less could they teach that as matter of Divine Truth which was contrary to it Ignorance therefore of some Divine Truths and for some time onely when they are not necessary to be known doth not inferre errour or possibility of erring in those Truths when they are necessary to be known The Apostles Matth. 10. 19. were charged not to be Sollicitous beforehand what they should answer to Kings and Presidents being brought before them because it should be given them in that hour what to speak In like manner with due proportion is it now given to their Successours what to answer that is what to define in matters of Faith when ever emergent occasions require it Secondly I say that an ignorant man is of himself subject to errour but taught and informed by a master that is infallible he may become infallible So that his Lordships Argument from bare ignorance concluding errour or an absolute possibility of erring is it self as erroneous as this A young Scholar of himself alone is ignorant and apt to mistake the signification of words Ergo he can do no otherwise then mistake while his Master stands by him and teaches him 4. But the Bishop at last bethinks himself and puts in a Proviso Provided alwayes saith he that this erring of the Church be not in any point simply Fundamentall for of such points even in his own judgement the whole Church cannot be ignorant nor erre in them To which proposition of his Lordship at present we shall return no other answer but this We desire to know what
even after our Saviours Ascension had they no promise of Divine Assistance in the delivery of those Truths Thus the promises of Christ come to nothing But if one should ask some of this Bishops Disciples how their Master proves that the promises of Christ are to be limited to Truths necessary to Salvation they must answer 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Ipse dixit just as Pythagoras his Pupils did of old when they were urg'd to give a Reason of their Masters Philosophy For where I pray hath Christ so limited his promises where do the Apostles teach us to understand them with such limitation Neither do we extend them to Truths wholly unnecessary or to curious Truths as the Bishop seems willing to insinuate No We tell him there is a medium a middle sort of Truths between those which are absolutely necessary for all mens Salvation and those which are simply unnecessary or curious We extend these promises to all Truths of this middle sort that is to all such Truths as the Church findes consonant to Catholique Faith and Piety and necessary to be defin'd for the preventing of Heresies Schismes and Dissentions among Christians But I pray observe our Adversaries unparallel'd Subtlety in the close of all Christ saith he hath promis'd that the Spirit should lead his Church into all Truth but he hath no where promis'd that the Church should follow her leader What a rare Acumen is here Then belike to lead and to follow are not Relatives in Protestant Logick But let them take heed 't is to be fear'd they will be found Relatives and that if the Devil chance to lead any of them to Hell for their Heresie and other sins nothing will help but they must infallibly follow him And I wish that all his Lordships party would duly consider this as often as they interpret Scripture after this manner CHAP. 15. Of the Roman Churches Authority ARGUMENT 1. Whether Protestants beside reforming themselves did not condemn the Church of errour in Faith 2. That St. Peter had a larger and higher Power over the Church of Christ then the rest of the Apostles 3. The History or matter of Fact touching the Donatists appealing to the Emperor related and how little it advantages the Bishop or his party 4. St. Gregories Authority concerning the question of Appeals and the Civil Law notably wrested by the Bishop 5. St. Wilfrid Archbishop of York twice appealed to Rome and was twice restor'd to his Bishoprick by vertue of the Popes Authority 6. The African Church alwayes in Communion with the Roman 7. St. Peters placing his Sea at Rome no ground of his Successors Supremacy 8. Why the Emperours for some time ratified the Popes Election 9. Inferiour Clerks onely forbidden by the Canons to appeal to Rome 10. The Pope never accus'd by the Ancients of falsifying the Canons and that he might justly cite the Canons of Sardica as Canons of the Council of Nice BY the precedent Discourse it appears that the Bishops main task for a long time hath been to prove that the General Church may erre and stand in need of Reformation in matters of Faith this being the thing which A. C. most constantly denyes But his Lordship finding the proof of this not so easie by little and little was fain to slide into another question concernig the Power particular Churches have to reform themselves thinking by this to Authorize the pretended Reformation of his particular English Church To this purpose were his many Allegations of the Councils of Carthage Rome Gangres Toledo c. § 24. num 5. which how they succeeded the Reader may easily have perceiv'd by our Answers in the precedent Chapter 1. He goes on with his wonted Art which is to alledge his Adversary with not overmuch sincerity A. C. treating the abovesaid question touching the Power particular Churches have to reform themselves and not denying but in some cases particular Churches may reform what is amiss even in matter of Faith for greater caution addes these express words pag. 58. WHEN THE NEED of Reformation IS ONELY QUESTIONABLE particular Pastours and Churches may not condemn others of Errour in Faith But these words when the need is onely questionable the Bishop thinks fit to leave out to what end but to have some colour to contradict his Adversary and abuse his Reader Let us now see whether his Lordships party be far from judging and condemning other Churches as he seems to make them by his simile A man that lives religiously sayes he doth not by and by sit in judgement and condemn with his mouth all prophane livers But yet while he is silent his very life condemns them First of all Who are these men that live so religiously They who to propagate the Gospel the better marry Wives contrary to the Canons and bring forsooth Scripture for it Non est bonum esse hominem solum and again Numquid non habemus potestatem mulierem sororem circumducendi Who are these men I say that live so religiously They who pull down Monasteries both of Religious men and women They who cast Altars to the ground They who partly banish Priests partly put them to death They who deface the very Tombs of Saints and will not permit them to rest even after they are dead These are the men who live so religiously But who are according to his Lordship prophane Livers They who stick close to St. Peter and his Successors They who for the Catholique Faith endure most willingly Sequestrations Imprisonments Banishments Death it self They in a word who suffer Persecution for Righteousness These in his Lordships opinion are Prophane Livers I return now to the Relatours men that live so religiously Do these men never condemn the Catholique Church but by their vertuous lives which you have seen Surely they condemn her not onely by quite dissonant lives but also by word of mouth by their pens nay by publick and solemn Censures Witness to go no further the Protestant Church of England Artic. 19. where she condemns of errour not onely the Churches of Antioch and Alexandria but even of Rome it self Again Rogers in his allowed Analyse and Comment upon the said Article pronounces that the Church of Rome hath not onely shamefully err'd in matters of Faith but that the whole visible Church may likewise erre from time to time and hath err'd in doctrine as well as conversation Do they not say Artic. 21. that General Councils may erre and have err'd even in things pertaining to God Do they not pronounce of Purgatory Praying to Saints Worship of Images and Reliques c. Artic. 22. of Transubstantiation Artic. 28. and of the Sacrifice of the Mass Artic. 31. respectively that they are fond things vainly invented by men contrary to Gods Word Blasphemous Fables and dangerous Deceits Though it be as clear as the sun at noon-day that both these and many other points deny'd and rejected by Protestants were the doctrine and
practise not onely of the Roman but of the whole Church near upon a thousand years together even by the confession of Protestants Is this onely to reform themselves and not to condemn other Churches otherwise then by silence and example Do not all other Protestant Confessions of Faith speak the same language Do they not all take upon them with a more then censorious presumption to condemn the Doctrine and practise of the Roman Catholique that is of the whole true Church of Christ in the same and divers other contested points 2. A. C. therefore well mindes us that in all matters of difficulty belonging to Faith particular Churches should have recourse to the Church of Rome as Irenaeus intimates which hath a more powerful Principality and to her Bishop who is chief Pastour of the whole Church as being St. Peters Successour to whom Christ promis'd the Keyes Math. 16. for whom he pray'd that his Faith might not fail Luke 22. and whom he charg'd to Feed and Govern his Flock John 21. which saith A. C. he shall never refuse to do in such sort as that his neglect shall be a just cause for any particular man or Church under pretence of Reformation in Manners or Faith to make a Schisme or Separation from the whole General Church In answer to this the Bishop tells us the Roman Church hath indeed a more powerful Principality then any other particular Church but not from Christ which is contrary to St. Austin or rather to the whole Council of Milevis who in their Epistle to Innocent the first professe that the Popes Authority is grounded upon Scripture and consequently proceeds from Christ. Secondly he sayes the Patriarchs were all as even and equal for any Principality of Power as the Apostles were But this is first Equivocal the Apostles themselves were not in all respects equal or of even Authority They had a Superiour among them viz. Saint Peter 'T is true indeed except St. Peter they were are all equal among themselves every one of them had equal mission unto and Jurisdiction over the whole Church and none of them any Authority preceptive or coercive over another whereas St. Peter together with his Authority Apostolical over the whole Church which was common to him with the rest of the Apostles had also Jurisdiction and Authority over the Apostles themselves as being in the number of Christs sheep committed to his charge by our Saviour John 21. as is clear in all Antiquity Secondly 't is contrary to the Council of Nice In the third Canon whereof which concerns the Jurisdiction of Patriarchs the Authority or Principality if you will of the Bishop of Rome is made the patern or model of that Authority and Jurisdiction which the Patriarchs were to exercise over the Provincial Bishops The words of the Canon are these Sicque praeest Patriarcha iis omnibus qui sub potestate ejus sunt sicut ille qui tenet Sedem Romae CAPUT ESTET PRINCEPS OMNIUM PATRIARCHARUM The Patriarch say they is in the same manner over all those that are under his Authority as He who holds the Sea of Rome is Head and Prince of all the Patriarchs And in the same Canon the Pope is afterward stiled Petro similis Autoritate par resembling Saint Peter and his equal in Authority This also the practise of the Church shews which is alwayes the best Expositour and Assertour of the Canons For not onely the Popes Confirmation was required to all new-elected Patriarchs but it belong'd likewise to him to depose unworthy ones and restore the unjustly deposed by others We read of no less then eight several Patriarchs of Constantinople deposed by the Bishop of Rome Sixtus the third deposed also Polychronius Bishop of Jerusalem as his Acts set down in the first Tome of the Councils testifie On the contrary Athanasius Patriarch of Alexandria and Paulus Bishop of Constantinople were by Julius the first restored to their respective Seas having been unjustly expell'd by Hereticks The same might be said of divers others over whom the Pope did exercise the like authority which he could never have done upon any other ground then that of divine Right and as being generally acknowledg'd St. Peters Successour in the Government of the whole Church St. Austin therefore said well in Romanâ Ecclesiâ semper Apostolicae Cathedrae viguit Principatus in the Roman Church the Principality of the Apostolique Chair hath alwayes flourisht Here the Bishop will have some other Apostolique Chairs like this of Rome viz. equal to it in Authority But this he does partly to level the Dignity of the Roman Sea contrary to St. Austin and all Antiquity and partly to make way to some other pretty perversions of the same Father For we must know he is now entring upon that main question concerning the Donatists of Africk of whose proceedings the whole forecited Epistle of St. Austin treateth and therefore to make our answer to his objections more compendious and clear it will not be amiss in the first place to state that business by way of Narrative and matter of Fact onely which I shall briefly do out of St. Austin and Optatus Milevitanus Thus then it was 3. The Donatists of Africk finding themselves sharply oppos'd by Caecilianus Arch-bishop of Carthage and Primate of Africa by way of revenge accuse him of having in time of Persecution deliver'd up the Holy Scriptures with other Sacred Utensils of the Church into the possession of the Heathens which was accounted a most capital crime amongst Christians They added to their accusation that he was made Bishop by one guilty of the same crime viz. by Felix Bishop of Aptung and they prosecuted the business so hotly that by a Synod of seventy African Bishops Caecilian was condemn'd and outed of his Bishoprick But he making no great reckoning of the sentence as being condemn'd absent and unheard and knowing himself to be in Communion with the Roman Church the Donatists are forced to prosecute their charge against him in other Churches beyond Sea But not daring to appear at Rome or at least knowing it would be to little purpose they address themselves to the Emperour Constantin and desire him to command their cause to be heard by some Bishops of the Gaules in France where the Emperour then resided But the Emperour was so far from favouring them that he shew'd a great dislike of their proceedings telling them exprefly that it belong'd not to him neither durst he act the part of a Judge in a cause of Bishops Nevertheless knowing very well the turbulent disposition of Schismatiques and perceiving they meant not to acquiesce in the sentence of any Ecclesiastical Tribunal to which they were immediately subject he thought good to take a middle way which was to send them to Rome there to be heard and judged by the Pope to whom the cause did most properly belong but yet
thereof they so govern the Church as we may securely relie on them in matters of Faith at least in such as they definitively teach and promulgate to the whole Church But in the close the Bishop undertakes a strange task He will prove that Epiphanius in most express terms and that twice repeated makes not St. Peter but St. James Successour to our Lord in the Principality of his Church But he every way mistakes For first in the places he alledges there 's not a word of the Churches Principality Secondly he meerly equivocates in the words ante caeteros omnes which signifie onely priority of time because St. James was the first of the Apostles that was ordain'd Bishop of any particular place viz. at Jerusalem as both Eusebius and St. Hierome witness which is call'd Christs Throne because our Saviour himself had there preach't the Gospel and was principally and immediately sent thither Nor is it unusual in ancient Ecclesiastical Writers to give the title of Christs Throne to any Episcopal Chair or Seat whatsoever To the Relatours assertion that we all say but no man proves that the Bishop of Rome succeeded in all St. Peters Prerogatives which are ordinary and belong'd to him as a Bishop though not in the extraordinary which belong'd to him as an Apostle I answer Bellarmin beside many Catholique Divines doth not onely say but prove that the Pope succeeds St. Peter not onely in the Prerogatives that belong'd to him as a Bishop but in all Prerogatives Apostolical which were of Ordinary necessity to continue in the Church for its Government and preservation of the True Faith as his Disputations upon this Subject sufficiently shew to any man that reads him with an unbyassed judgement For can any thing be more express then these words lib. 1. De Rom Pont. cap. 9. Mortuis autem Apostolis Apostolica Authoritas in solo Petri Successore permansit When the Apostles were dead the Authority Apostolical resided onely in St. Peters Successor Is this to say the Pope succeeded St. Peter onely in his Episcopal Prerogatives I adde that Bellarmin in the same chapter goes on shewing the difference between St. Peters Successour and the Successours of the rest of the Apostles viz. that they were Bishops onely and that their Authority reached not to a Jurisdiction over the whole Church as that of St. Peters Successours did who were therefore stiled 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Apostolical Bishops and their Sea the Sea Apostolique and their Office The Apostolate See his words in the Margin all which he there proves by the Authority of the Ancient Fathers Wherefore the Bishop 〈◊〉 very largely upon his Readers Credulity while he quotes Bellarmin for this Assertion that the Pope succeeds not St. Peter in any Prerogative that belong'd to him as an Apostle 10. However the Relatour is so kinde to St. Peter as to allow him a Primacy of Order but that is not so much as the Fathers allow him For by his own Confession Doctor Reinolds against Hart chap. 5. proves at large that the Fathers allow St. Peter and that in the way of Prerogative above the rest of the Apostles not onely Primacy of Order but Authority and Principality too which surely imply Power and I would have any man shew us some good Authour of ancient times in whom either the Latine word Primatus or the Greek 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 answering to it are attributed to any Ecclesiastical person as signifying onely Precedency in order and place and not a true Superiour Authority and Jurisdiction over those in relation to whom such a person is said to have Primacy or to be Primate Is not the contrary most evident viz. that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 alwayes signifies Preheminence in Authority and Primatus more especially Preheminence or Superiority in Ecclesiastical Government Is the Primate of any Christian Nation no more then one that hath Precedence in place Doth that Title signifie no more in England then that the Arch-bishop of Canterbury ought to have the chief place in the Convocation-House Have not all Catholique Authours yea and many Protestants too ever thought they signified the Supreme Authority of the Bishop of Rome both sufficiently and properly by the word Primatus Are there not many Volumes extant on both sides De Primatu Romani Pontificis Were their Authors ever tax'd for speaking ambiguously in using that terme wherefore if St. Peter had Primacy he had also Supremacy and if his Primacy were Universal over all his Supremacy was so too Since they both signifie the same thing viz. an eminency of Authority and Power in one above the rest Again St. Hierome speaking of this very subject saith Primatus Petro datur ut Capite constituto ' Schismatis tollatur occasio Can any man in his wits think that by Primatus he mean't onely Precedency of Order was that sufficient to prevent Schisme If therefore a True and Proper Primacy be granted by Protestants to St. Peters Successour also before and above all other Bishops and Patriarchs of the whole Church as divers of them grant the Fathers did it must be also granted that Supremacy of Power over all Bishops and Patriarchs of the Church is due unto him Now that Primacy or Supremacy of right belongs to St. Peters Successour no less then to himself I evince by this following Argument Whatsoever Power or Jurisdiction was necessary in the Apostles time for the due Government of the Church in order to prevention of Schismes and procurement of Unity must à fortiori be necessary in all succeeding ages But the Power and Jurisdiction of One viz. St. Peter or his Successour over all Christians whatsoever not excepting even the Apostles themselves was necessary in the Apostles time for the due Government of the Church in order to prevention of Schisms and procurement of Unity Ergo the Power and Jurisdiction of One viz. St. Peter or his Successour is à fortiori necessary in all succeeding Ages The Major viz. that whatsoever Power and Jurisdiction was necessary in the Apostles time for the due Government of the Church c. must needs be necessary in all succeeding Ages is clear from meer Inspection into those succeeding Ages to this present where it is visible by what degrees the great zeal of the Primitive Christians has decay'd and cooled even to this day to the production of infinite Schismes and Heresies which must needs ere this have overwhelm'd and utterly confounded the Church had not our Blessed Saviour that Divine Law-giver laid that original Platform of Church-Government which was to serve us as a pattern to the end of the world our Saviour Christ not so much regarding the need of it during the Apostles lives as the necessity his all-seeing wisdom foresaw would be of it in all future Ages The Minor is prov'd effectively by the precedent Discourse where St. Peters Primacy that is as we there shew his Supremacy over all
is confest by his Lordship and other Protestants The Conclusion therefore is undenyable viz. that 't is necessary for the Due Government of the Church that one should be endow'd with Power and Jurisdiction over all Christians in all succeeding ages Adde hereunto that so long as the End is but in Acquisition and not compleatly gained the Necessary Means to obtain it is alwayes necessary But the End in our present case viz. the Due Government of the Church the preserving it in the Unity of True Catholick Faith and Christian Charity is and ever hath been since the Apostles time but in Acquisition and shall not be compleatly gained till the end of the world Ergo the Necessary Means viz. the Supreme Authority of One over All in the Government of the Church is hath been and ever will be necessary to the Worlds End CHAP. 17. The Popes Authority asserted and vindicated ARGUMENT 1. Our Saviours prayer for St. Peter extended to his Successours 2. What it effected for St. Peter and what for them 3. PASCE OVES AGNOS John 21. 15. 17. a Special charge to St. Peter and not common in all respects to the rest of the Apostles 4. A.C. begs not the question but proves it 5. The Bishop willingly mistakes him about the Notion of a General Council 6. Optatus and St. Austins words cited nothing to the purpose 7. The Popes Ancient and undoubted right to confirm General Councils 8. The Bishops Lesbian Rule for deciding Controversies examin'd and shew'n to be vain 9. The Popes Authority duly acknowledged sufficient to prevent Schismes and Heresies 10. The Government of the Church not purely Monarchical but Mixt. 11. How the Literae Communicatoriae of the Pope and other Catholique Bishops differ'd 1. THe Bishop himself in his Answers to the Argument drawn from our Saviours Prayer for St. Peter Luke 22. 32. Ego rogavi pro Te c. I have prayed for thee that thy Faith fail not shews the insufficiency of his Evasions Card. Bellarmin by the Testimony of seven Popes most of them very Ancient proves that our Saviour by that Prayer obtain'd both for St. Peter and his Successours this priviledge namely that they should never teach the Church any thing contrary to True Faith What sayes the Bishop to this As for St. Peter himself he tells us it will be easily granted that such a priviledge was obtain'd for him but that it should be obtain'd or intended for his Successours also that never came within the compass of ROGAVI PROTE Petre. Yea Bellarmin's proof according to the Relatour is its own Confutation And why because forsooth all his proofs are from witnesses in their own Cause and from Interessed persons I answer first that all his proofs are not from Popes fot he gives several pregnant reasons for his Assertion drawn from the Text it self had the Bishop been pleas'd to answer them Secondly I ask How interressed so far as to assert a manifest untruth in a matter of so great importance to the whole Church Surely no. Can our Adversaries have the Confidence Temerity rather to affirm that Felix the first a most Holy Martyr about the year 273. that Lucius the first another most Holy Martyr as some think or as others say a Confessour about the year 337. and Leo the first a most Holy Pope as all Antiquity acknowledg'd about the year 440. would dare pervert and mis-alledge Scripture onely for Interest and to advance their own Authority had they not known it to be the just Authority of their Sea and rightly grounded on this Text Truly I could never yet understand this proceeding of Protestants who make so many publick professions to stand to the Fathers Authority of the first Five or Six hundred years yet when such Fathers are alledged fly presently back and reject their Authority upon such weak pretenses as these And though Pope Agatho were something after those ages viz. about the year 678. yet I see not how they can refuse his Testimony in this matter unless they be resolved to contemn not onely him but all the Fathers in the sixth General Council where the Epistle of this Pope was read and approv'd who could much better judge whether his words were written out of proper Interest then the Relatour or any of his party The other Three 't is confest are of somewhat a later standing yet the latest of them flourisht above four hundred years since and we desire to know what Authour of good repute ever taxed any of them as by assed with proper interest when they publish't that St Peter does in his Successours still teach the Church and confirm his Brethren in the True Faith by vertue of this prayer of our Saviour His assertion that Bellarmin upon the matter confesses there is not one Father in the Church before Theophylacts time that understands this Text as Bellarmin doth is wholly groundless Must he needs confess there are no more Authours citable in any subject but what he cites himself Certainly though Bellarmins Learning was great and his Reading much yet was he known to be a person of too great modesty and humility to pretend to this But suppose he had confest as much as the Bishop desir'd what follows onely this that till Theophylacts time none had given so full an Exposition of those words Ego rogavi pro Te c. as those seven Popes which is no wonder at all considering how few of the Fathers have purposely commented upon the place and how many of them do in effect deliver the same Doctrine drawn from other Texts of Scripture as Bellarmin also shews in other Chapters The force therefore of Bellarmins proof out of Theophylact is this If our Saviours prayer was to have a special effect in St. Peter because he was to be the Churches Foundation under Christ it must also have the like effect in those who were to be such Foundations in succeeding ages that is in all his lawful Successours Neither doth this priviledge of the Indeficiency of St. Peters Faith belong to him precisely as an Apostle which the Relatour insinuates but rather as he was Prince of the Apostles and appointed to be Christs Vicar on earth after him 2. To what he addes touching the two Effects or Priviledges our Saviours prayer obtain'd for St. Peter and their descending to his Successours I answer Whatever our Saviour intended should descend by vertue of that prayer of his did effectively so descend But I confess 't is a disputable question whether every thing which Christ by this prayer intended and obtain'd for St. Peter was likewise intended by him to descend to St. Peters Successours That some special priviledge both intended and obtain'd by this prayer was to descend to them is manifest both by the Authorities and Reasons brought by Bellarmin in proof thereof and this Priviledge was that none of St. Peters Successours should ever so far fall from the Faith as to teach Heresie or any
if these lawfully assembled pray for the promis'd Assistance of the Holy Ghost they questionless shall obtain it seeing our Saviour cannot fail of his word Another Exception against that cited passage of A. C. is that he speaking of Points decreed by a General Council makes Firm and Infallible to be Synonyma's But here again the Bishop fails in his observation A. C. onely tells us that the Decree of such a General Council was Firm and Infallible that is not onely Firm but also Infallible Is this to make them signifie the same thing Neither doth he speak so much of what is Infallible in it self as what is Infallible in order to us So that this and the Premises considered there must needs be some other visible and Infallible Judge viz. a General Council beside Scripture for setling Controversies in the Church and making all points of Faith not onely Firm but Infallible 6. What the Relatour brings in his swelling Margent out of Optatus and St. Austin serves onely to amuse his Reader We grant that Christ did not dye Intestate but left behinde him a Will which was afterwards written So that in rigour of speech he left onely a Nuncupative Will which was after deliver'd to the Church partly by Writing partly by Tradition However we stand not upon the terms but the thing it self and have recourse with St. Austin and Optatus to the Written Word or Will in matters of Faith We urge and plead it in almost all matters controverted in Religion between us and them But we demand what was to be done by those first Christians who liv'd before this Will was written or at least before it was generally receiv'd or known for such Again what are we now to doe when either this written Word is call'd in question or the matter in Controversie not so clearly set down therein as to put a period to contention Do the forecited Authours deny that in such case we must have recourse to Tradition Nothing less Certainly St. Austin believ'd the necessity of Infant-Baptism the unlawfulness of rebaptizing the duly-Baptiz'd by Heretiques with many other points which no man can evidently prove out of the written Word alone nay the Scripture it self he believ'd for no other reason then the Authority of the Church and Tradition Wherefore I cannot sufficiently wonder at those words of his Lordship to A. C. in the Margent where by way of defiance he tells him he could shew no Father of the Church who taught that Christ ever lest behinde him a NUNCUPATIVE OBLIGATORY WILL. First what means he by that restrictive expression a Nuncupative Obligatory Will Could any Will left by our Saviour whether Nuncupative or by Writing not be Obligatory Secondly how was it possible the Bishop should challenge us to prove by the Fathers that our Saviour left behinde him a Nuncupative Will since 't is in it self most evident and undeniable Did he leave I pray any other then a Nuncupative Will Was any part of the Gospel written either by himself or by any other at his command in his life time Did he not make his whole Will by word of mouth to his Disciples But we shall not insist wholly upon the self-evidence of the thing Is it not to be shewn out of the Fathers that Christ left a Nuncupative Obligatory Will First touching the word Nuncupative Will we hope it will be held sufficient if we prove the thing viz. an unwritten yet Obligatory Declaration of Christs Doctrine which is equivalent to a Nuncupative Will. And as to this we say that Bellarmin and all Catholique Divines who write of the word of God written and unwritten do effectually prove it not onely by the Authority of St. Austin and the unanimous consent of the Fathers but even by the very Text of Scripture it self Does not Saint Paul command us 2 Thess. 2. 14. TO HOLD FAST THE TRADITIONS we have been taught whether by Word or Epistle Doth not this in effect signifie a Nuncupative Will and Obligatory Does not Saint Irenaeus teach us the same Oportet ordinem sequi Traditionis c. We must saith he follow the order of Tradition which they have deliver'd to us to whom the Apostles committed the Government of the Churches Doth he not tell us in the same Chapter of whole Nations of Christians even in his time which was somewhat above two hundred years after Christ who most perfectly believ'd the Christian Faith though they had not any part of the Scripture to direct them Doth not Tertullian teach the same together with Saint Cyprian St. Basil Epiphanius St. Hierome and divers others But we have spoken too much in a matter so evident let us pass on to that which follows 7. His next Marginal Exception against A. C. is for requiring the Popes Confirmation to a General Council telling us 't is one of the Roman Novelties to account that necessary for the validity of a General Council But surely he is not a little mistaken For in the first 〈◊〉 Councils do we not finde the Confirmations of the several Popes who then sate clearly acknowledged See the Acts and Synodical Epistles of the six first Councils and Gelasius epist. 13. ad Episcop Dardan Tom. 3. 〈◊〉 Neither can it rationally be thought that the Decrees of a Council should be taken for the Decrees of the whole Church Representative if the consent of the acknowledged chief Pastour and Head of the Church were wanting And whereas the Relatour brings St. Austin's Authority to prove that the Sentence of a General Council is confirm'd by the consent of the whole Church yielding to it we answer his Allegation might well have been spar'd for we say so too We acknowledge the Acceptation of the Universal Church to be an Acoessory and Secondary Confirmation of the Decrees of a General Council and as the whole Church Representative or a General Council cannot erre in defining so neither can the whole Church Diffusive and Formal erre in accepting and believing whatever is defined So that ordinarily speaking we acknowledge a Double Confirmation of the Decrees made by a General Council the one of the Pope as Head of the Church the other of the Church it self extended throughout the several Provinces of Christendom But the Popes Confirmation is Primary Essential and absolutely necessary because without it what the Council declares neither is nor can be esteem'd the Act or Judgement of the whole Church Representative the Pope being the chief Member both of Church and Council The Churches Acceptation is as I have said a Confirmation also but this is onely Accessory for the further satisfaction of particular persons that may haply doubt either of the Authority or Proceedings of this or that Council in particular And there is no other ordinary means to assure private persons throughout the Church that such or such a Council was lawfully assembled proceeded duly voted freely and was Authentically confirm'd by the chief Bishop
Pope as he is Pope or in respect of that Supereminent Authority which belongs to him as Saint Peters Successour but onely compares him with another private Bishop in respect of meer Character or power of a Bishop as Bishop onely And as he doth not de facto speak of the Pope as Successour of St. Peter so is it certain that de jure he could not speak any thing to the prejudice of that part of the Bishop of Rome's Authority without contradicting and condemning himself not onely in his Epistle to Pope Damasus already cited where he professeth that to be out of the Popes Communion is to be an Alien from the Church of Christ but also in his Commentaries on the 13. Psalm where he calls St. Peter Head of the Church and Epist. ad Demetriad Virg. where he stiles the Pope Successour of the Apostolick Chair and speaks to the same purpose in divers other places of his works But now the Bishop to give a home-blow as he imagin'd to the Popes Authority over the whole Church pretends to bring a great and undoubted Rule given by Optatus who tells us the Church is in the Commonwealth not the Commonwealth in the Church whence he positively concludes it impossible that the Government of the Church should be Monarchical For saith he no Emperour or King will endure another King within his Dominions to be greater then himself since the very enduring it makes him that endures it upon the matter no Monarch But the force of this Argument will presently vanish if we but consider that these two Kingdoms are of different natures the one Spiritual the other Temporal the one exercis'd onely in such things as concern the Worship of God and the Eternal Salvation of Souls the other in affairs that concern this world alone and consequently do not of their own nature hinder but help one another where they are rightly administred Neither must it come under debate whether the administration of the spiritual Monarchy ought to be endur'd or not seeing Christ hath so ordain'd it nor would the Relatour I suppose have urg'd this argument had he well reflected on the person of our Saviour who as the Bishop himself would not deny was whilst he lived on earth most truly and properly the visible Monarch of the whole Church his Kingdom whether the Kings of the earth would endure it or not Again is it not in a manner the same thing in regard of Temporal Kings to have had the Apostles Universal Governours over all Christians as if some one had been a Monarch or chief amongst them and yet the Bishop cannot in his own principles deny but Temporal Kings were bound to endure this and did actually endure it without unkinging themselves thereby Nay is it not as prejudicial to their Temporal Crowns Titles and Prerogatives to have all their people together with themselves subject to the decrees of a lawful General Council which the Bishop denyes not as to be subject to the Decrees of some one chief Bishop 3. Lastly who sees not that the force of this Argument is utterly broken by the daily experience we have of the contrary to what our Adversary pretends For instance do not the Two great Christian Kings of France and Spain endure it Nay do's not all the world see that they do not onely endure it but maintain the Authority and Government of such a Spiritual Monarch as we speak of in the very midst of their Dominions and is it not evident they prosper so well under it that it would be no less then Dotage to contend that the enduring it is a Diminution of their Majesty Our Adversaries reflection upon this particular by way of Answer is not onely injurious to those Two great Monarchs but destructive of his own Argument For he tells us the Popes power is of little esteem in the Kingdoms of these Two Catholique Princes further then to serve their own turns of him which they do saith he to their great advantage Thus what the two great Catholique Princes of Christendom profess to do upon the Account of Faith and Conscience the Relatour hath the confidence to tell us they do it meerly on the score of policy and for temporal ends though he plainly contradicts himself in this assertion since he told us but just now the enduring such a Monarchy made him that endur'd it no Monarch You see at once both his Civility towards Christian Princes and his Constancy to himself Moreover I wonder the Relatour could not see that this Argument The Church is within the Commonwealth ergo Subordinate unto it had it any force would conclude as much against the Aristocratical Government of the Church for which he so much pleads as the Monarchical For how I pray could the Bishops of so many different Kingdoms and States when the good of the Church did necessarily require it Convene in a General Councel or authoritatively Declare what ought to be believ'd when matters of Faith were question'd or how should they otherwise then precariously cause their Decisions to be receiv'd through the whole Church if either there were no Supream Spiritual Governour at all or he bound as it were to ask Princes leave to do what belongs to his Office Is not a General Council as much within the Commonwealth as the Pope If therefore the Pope in the administration of his Office be any way subject de jure to the Authority of Temporal Princes how can a General Council be absolute and independent of the same Authority in the execution of theirs Thus you see how by impugning the Monarchical Government of Christs Church he in effect overthrows all Church-Government whatsoever even that which himself would seem to approve It remains therefore fully prov'd that the external Government of the Church on earth is Monarchical not purely and absolutely but mixed as hath been already declar'd Neither do we stile the Pope Monarch of the Church but the Deputy or Vicar General of Christ that is his Chief Bishop by whom he governs his Church in chief He is neither King nor Lord of the Church but the Chief-Servant of it a Steward of Christs Family yea a Fellow-Servant with other Bishops to one and the same Master Yet the Care of the whole Family is committed to him and but part of it to other Bishops who govern by Commission from Christ with him but under him 4. This duly consider'd what the Relatour objects out of the Council of Antioch St. Cyprian and Bellarmin for the power of Bishops comes just to nothing For we acknowledge Bishops to have a portion jure Divino in the Government of Christs Flock They are no less Chief Officers of Christ then the Pope though not in all respects equal to him or so absolute as to govern without dependance on him And it seems strange the Bishop should attempt to prove out of Bellarmin that the Government of the Church Militant is not Monarchical in the sense
often declar'd because he teaches 't is to be govern'd by Bishops since in the place alledg'd he declares the Government of the Church onely as 't is contradistinct from the government of Temporal Princes not as inferiour Bishops are distinguisht from the Supream or Chief Bishop that 's another question and treated by him in another place it being sufficient to his purpose there to shew that the Church was to be govern'd by Ecclesiastical not Temporal Princes without disputing whether the said Ecclesiastical Governours were Subordinate or not one to another But the Bishop proceeds in his objections and tells us the Church Militant remaining spread in many earthly Kingdoms cannot so well be order'd by one Monarch as a particular Kingdom may by one King For how saith he will this one Supream execute his Office if the Kings of those several Kingdoms will not give leave I answer first this Difficulty makes as much against the Aristocratical form of Church-Government as the Monarchical For how will a General Council to use his own term enter to execute their Office when the necessities of the Church require such a Convention if the Kings of those several Kingdoms from whence the Prelates are to come will not give leave Nay how can the Bishops of any one Christian Kingdom meet in Synods if their respective Sovereigns to whom the Relatour will have them subject even in Spirituals will not give leave 5. As to his Surmize that we would have one Emperour over all Kings as well as one Pope over all Bishops I answer it was a Chimaera of his own Brain and as impossible for him to know as for any of his party to deny with Truth that we pray for Peace and Unity amongst all Christian Princes wishing nothing more then that every one of them may enjoy and rest satisfied with his own right But here the Bishop takes occasion to fall foul upon Innocent the Third because forsooth comparing the Ecclesiastical and Civil Power to the Two great Lights the Sun and the Moon he made the Sun a Symbole of the Ecclesiastical and the Moon of the Civil Power which the Relatour interprets for us to signifie the Pope and the Emperour I answer First did not men love contention there would be no quarrelling about such Conceipts as these which are never taken for Argumentative but meerly Allusive Applications of the Sacred Text touching these Two Powers which diversely considered give ground to different Allegories In times of persecution both the Church and Pope may not unfitly be compar'd to the Moon by reason of their declining condition but in time of prosperity if we consider the same Church in relation to the extent and greatness of her Power beyond the Imperial it reaching to all places and persons in the world professing Christian Faith as also in respect of the Dignity of its Object viz. Things Caelestial whereas the Object of the Imperial Power are onely the Things of this world there 's little question but the Ecclesiastical Power excells the Imperial no less then the Soul does the Body or Eternity the Things of this life In this regard therefore it could be no just matter of offence for the Pope to be understood by the Sun and the Emperour by the Moon But the Pope forsooth makes too much odds between his own power and the Emperours abasing that of the Emperour so far as to make it forty seaven times less then that of the Pope which the Bishop proves from the Gloss upon this Decretal We answer the Allegory led the Glosser to it and that being rather a flourish of wit and pious conceipt then matter of solid Argument it was but lost time for our Adversary to make inferences from it and would be the like in us to answer them The matter we stand upon is that the Pope is Supream Pastour of the whole Church Let our Adversaries disprove this and not trifle about Allegories We confess also that the Emperour is Supream over his Subjects in all Civil affairs in fuch sort as neither of these Powers can of right hinder the other in the due execution of their charge They are both of them absolute and Independent Powers though each in their proper orbe the one in Spirituals the other in Temporals By which it appears we are far from depressing the Imperial power lower then God hath made it as the Relatour most injuriously chargeth us No we honour and very willingly acknowledge the Emperour in Tertullians style Hominem à Deo secundum solo Deo minorem viz. in the administration of all Civil affairs in which doubtless all persons within his Dominion ought to be subject to him Yet does it not belong to the Emperour to order the affairs of the Church resolve Controversies of Faith or interpret Scripture in any sense contrary to the judgement and doctrine of the lawful Pastours of the Church he hath no power to do any thing of this nature neither shall we ever read that any of them took upon them to be Supream Governours of the Church or reform Religion on their own account without or contrary to the said Pastours 6. A Book of the Law 't is true was anciently by Gods special command to be given to the King Deut. 17. 18. But to what intent was it given To govern the Church by reading it or expound the sense of the Law when it happen'd to come in Controversie Surely no It was given him to govern himself and Kingdom by it that by reading it he might learn to fear God and keep his words and statutes commanded in it as the Text it self declares Neither is it to be doubted but in case of Notorious and Gross Abuses manifestly contrary to Religion and connived at by the Pastours of the Church Christian Princes may both lawfully and piously use their Authority in procuring the said abuses to be effectually redressed by the said Pastours as the examples of Ezekias and Josias prove alledged by the Bishop But they prove not that Princes may themselves take upon them the Priests Office either in whole or part they prove not that they may reform Religion in the Substance of it or enact any thing pertaining thereto by their own Authority without or contrary to the Priests consent They prove not that Princes may determine the Controversies of the Law God having expresly reserv'd them to the Priests judgement and commanded all to submit to it under pain of death Nay point blank to the contrary we read 2. Paralip 26. 20. that Osias though a King was stricken by God with a sudden Leprosie for but attempting to usurp the Priests Office which if it were so unlawful then must needs now be yet more by how much the Functions of the Evangelical Priesthood are more Sacred Spiritual and participatively Divine then those of the Mosaical Law 7. Nor did the Popes ever attempt or so much as pretend to bring the Emperours under them in
Civil affairs which is another aspersion the Bishop layes upon them Gregory the Seventh and Innocent the Third were indeed very prudent men and worthy Champions of the Church to assert her just liberties but they never endeavour'd to subject the Emperour to themselves in Temporal matters and it had been more for our Adversaries credit instead of falsly pretending it to be plain in History that they did so to have given us at least some one good proof of it Can any such thing be solidly concluded from the Allegory of the Sun and Moon upon which the Relatour so long insists and makes so many unsignificant reflections that they would better become a person the Moon had particularly wrought upon then a Primate of England 8. The Relatour could not leave his digressive Discourse without giving a lash to the Jesuites by willing them to leave their practising to advance the greatness of the Pope and Emperour But I wonder he could so easily believe that men of understanding as he sticks not to acknowledge Jesuites to be should by Vow deprive themselves of the riches and pleasures of this world with design to make the Pope and Emperour great especially seeing that without breach of an Oath peculiar to their Order they can neither seek nor so much as accept of any Ecclesiastical preferment as other Church-men and Religious may unless by way of Obedience when expresly thereto commanded by the Pope under pain of Sin He skips from the Jesuites to the Friers A certain Frier at Madrid John De Puente by name in the Year 1612. printed a Book in the Frontispiece whereof he painted the Sun and the Moon so as they clearly signified the Pope and the King of Spain Here the Scene changes 't was just now the Pope and the Emperour There were also divers other Emblematical Phansies added by which was intimated that his Catholique Majesty should be content to be under the Pope so he might rule all the world beside Lastly for fear the Scutcheons and Devises should not sufficiently discover the Design the Title of the Book layes all open 'T is called LA CONVENIENTIA DE LAS DOS MONAR QUIAS CATOLICAS in English The Agreement of the Two Catholique Monarchies viz. of the Pope and of Spain To all which the Bishop addes his own particular reflection that the Book had all manner of License that a Book could have For answer to it we deny not but such a Book was both licensed and printed but doubtless who ever peruses the contents of it impartially will judge it was both licensed and printed rather for its witty conceit and divertisement for the King and his Courtiers then for a solid Foundation whereon to build any serious and Dogmatical Assertion And as this Spanish Frier stood for his own King so Campanella another Frier is objected to have stood as much for the late Dolphin now King of France publishing about the time of his Birth a certain Eclogue concerning him wherein the said Dolphin was promis'd the Universal Monarchy of the world and all other Princes represented as now more afraid of France then ever before What such men speak partly out of Flattery to Princes an Epidemical infirmity incident to men of all conditions and partly as delighted with their own Conceipts makes nothing at all to the cause of Religion nor can we be thought responsible for any such personal Actions or Assertions of private men 'T is sufficient for us to have prov'd that the Pope is Universal Pastour of the Church what the Kings of Spain or France are or would be in reference to other Christian Kings and Princes concerns not us either to know or examine 9. But leaving these Digressions the Relatour does here acknowledge it high time to return to his Adversary and think of Answering A. C. s Argument which proves that in the Church beside the Law Book of the Bible there must be a living Magistrate and Judge so assisted by the Holy Ghost as he may be able rightly to determine all Controversies of Religion and preserve Unity and Certainty of Faith in the Church To this he answers in brief that for determining Controversies in Religion and preserving Unity and Certainty of Faith it is not necessary to have one Bishop over the whole Christian Church more then 't is necessary for determining Civil Differences and preserving Civil peace and unity among Christians to have one Emperour over the whole world To confirm this the Authority of Occham is cited saying that it is not necessary there should be one Governour of the whole Church under Christ but 't is sufficient there be many Bishops governing divers Provinces as there are many Kings governing divers Kingdoms I answer first that besides that these Dialogues which the Bishop here alledges are in the Index of forbidden Books Occham himself is no such unquestionable Authour among Catholiques that we should think our selves oblig'd to defend what ever he sayes especially in a question that concerns the Popes Authority it being too well known how factiously he sided with an Enemy of the Church Secondly had Christ instituted such a Government of his Church as Occham fancies viz. a Government consisting of many not Subordinate to any One as Head and Supream over them it would have been requisite that all those Independent and Coordinate Governours in the Church should have been Infallible otherwise the Government of the Church would have been little less then a meer Anarchy without Unity or Certainty in any thing which must have destroy'd the very end of Government and expos'd the whole Body of the Catholique Church which yet is and must be One by the Institution of Christ to as many Schisms and varieties of Faith as there are several Provinces in 〈◊〉 Experience shews us this Truth in all Countries where no Infallibility is acknowledg'd Again Occham speaking onely de possibili of what our Saviour might have done had he pleas'd his doctrine cannot evince any thing in disproof of what we maintain to have been de facto established in Gods Church that is one Universal Pastour appointed by Christ over the whole Flock 10. Remain it therefore a settled Catholique principle that the Pope hath power over the whole Church of God according to the Declaration of the Occumenical Council of Florence in which both the Greek and Latin Church concurred and that to teach the contrary is undoubted Heresie The words of the Council are these Definimus Sanctam Apostolicam Sedem Romanum Pontificem in Universum orbem tenere Primatum c. We define saith the Council that the Holy Apostolique Sea and Bishop of Rome have Primacy over the whole world and that the said Bishop of Rome is Successour of the Blessed Peter Prince of the Apostles that he is also the True Vicar of Christ and Head of the whole Church and the Father and Doctour of all Christians and that to him in the person of Blessed Peter FULL
pretended reforming Council must be one of Equal Authority with the supposed Erring Council that preceded this being a Condition expresly requir'd by the Bishop Now since Protestants do not hold all General Councils to be of Equal Authority who shall determine or how shall men satisfie themselves whether the Succeeding Imaginary General Council be of Equal Authority with the precedent The Bishop gives us no light in this particular but leaves us to grope in the dark But let us indulge so much to our Adversary as to suppose such a Council met as the Bishop would have General and of Equal Authority yet Maldonats Argument which the Relatour allowes for a shrewd one evinces clearly that by this way we should never have a certain end of Controversies since to try whether any point of Faith were decreed according to Gods word there would need another Council and then another to try that and so in infinitum The result of which would be that our Faith should never have whereon to settle or rest it self To this the Bishop answers that no General Council lawfully called and so proceeding can be questioned in another unless Evident Scripture or a Demonstration appear against it and therefore we need not fear proceeding IN INFINITUM which is either as ambiguous as the rest or inconsonant to his own Doctrine touching a General Council which he sayes cannot easily erre in Fundamental Verity But this is neither to exclude possibility nor fear of erring c. Ergo possibly it may erre in 〈◊〉 Here the Bishop sayes I might have returned upon you again If a General Council not confirmed by the Pope may erre which you affirm to what end then a General Council He tells us we may say yes because the Pope as Head of the Church cannot erre Thus the Relatour makes a simple answer for us and then Triumphs in the Confutation of his own Answer But let this piece of Disingenuity pass and let us examine how uncandidly he imposes both on us and his Reader while he insinuates to him that we hold for a point of Catholique Faith that the Pope alone as Head of the Church is unerrable in his Doctrinal Decisions which is but an opinion of particular Doctours and no man oblig'd to believe it as a point of Faith We need not therefore make such a ridiculous answer as the Bishop does for us viz. That a General Council is necessary because the Pope as Head of the Church cannot erre but rather the contrary That a General Council is needfull because it is not De fide or receiv'd for a point of Catholique Faith that the Pope can decide inerrably without a General Council as all Catholiques unanimously believe he ever does when he defines with it What 's now become of his Lordships brag of retorting upon us 3. But the Bishop foreseeing as it were a Volley of Arguments probably to be discharg'd against him upon account of this his Errour-retaining Doctrine viz. That the Determinations of a General Council erring is to stand in force against Evidence of Scripture or Demonstration to the contrary till thereupon another Council of Equal Authority reverse it seeks his defence at last under the Covert of these restrictive expressions If the Errour be not manifestly against Fundamental Verity and unless it the Council erre manifestly and intolerably In which cases you may see the Relatour holds it not unlawful to oppose the determination of a General Council Now what is this but by seeking to solve one absurdity to fall into another as great viz. to leave not onely his Friends still more in the dark while he neither determines what points of Faith are Fundamental nor what Errours in particular are manifestly against Fundamental Verity nor what manifestly intolerable but opens a wide gate to all Phanatique and unquiet Spirits who never want Evident Scripture for what they fancy to exclaim as warranted by the Bishop against the Church and her Councils for teaching errours manifestly against Fundamental Verity or manifestly intolerable in both which cases they may with the Relatours license spurn against all Ecclesiastical Authority By this you may easily discern upon how Sandy a Foundation the Bishop has built up his ruinous Doctrine touching the Determinations of General Councils whose Authority he endeavours to Square by the Rule of Civil Courts never reflecting on the vast Disparity there is between the Government of the Church in matters of Religion and the Administration of the Civil Affairs of a Kingdom or Commonwealth The former is principally exercis'd in Teaching Declaring and Authoritatively Attesting Christian Faith which must of necessity be alwayes one and the same whereas the chief Object of Civil Government are matters in their own nature variable and changing according to Circumstances of Time Person Place c. So that what is prudently resolved and Decreed by a Parliament now may in a short revolution of time be found inexpedient in reference to the publick good and necessary to be repealed which can never happen in Decisions of Faith The truth of this is evident even from the Penalties imposed by these different Courts the Civil one never inflicting on the infringers any more then a Temporary External punishment Corporal or Pecuniary whereas the Spiritual viz. a General Council layes an Eternal Curse on the Dis-believers of their Decisions Witness the first Four General acknowledg'd for such by Protestants which were they fallible as the Bishop contends they are would be the greatest tyranny not to say Impiety imaginable Most imprudently therefore did the Bishop in labouring to Square a General Council by the Rule of Civil Courts against Catholique Doctrine 'T is true some particular Simile may be drawn from Parliaments against him not for him But the Bishop has another help at a dead lift wherein all pretended Reformers and their Adherents are very deeply concern'd which is that National or Provincial Councils may reform for themselves in case of manifest and intolerable errour if the whole Church upon peaceable and just complaint of this errour neglect or refuse to call a Council and examine it Sure the Bishop had very ill luck or a bad cause to maintain otherwise he could never have spoken so many inter-clashing Ambiguities in so little a Compass as he does For first he leaves us to divine what those Errours are which we must esteem intolerable Secondly he forgets to tell us whither we should repair to be ascertain'd of the Intolerableness of the Errour unless he would have have every man follow herein the Dictate of his own private judgement Thirdly he dismisseth us uninstructed how to make a just and peaceable complaint to the whole Church whither are we to repair to finde the whole Church or its Representative while as is supposed there 's no General Council yet in being Fourthly he leaves us wholly to guess how long we are to expect the whole Churches pleasure in point of calling a
St. Peters person onely but his Faith conjoyned with his person or his person confessing and asserting the Faith and that the Fathers speak in this sense and no other when they say the Church is built upon St. Peters Faith Bellarmin proves by a whole Jury of the most Ancient among them and most of them the same the Bishop here pretends to bring for himself beside the Testimony of the Council of Chalcedon consisting of above six hundred Catholique Bishops As to what he asserts that by Hell-gates-prevailing against the Church is not understood principally the Churches not Erring but her not falling away from the Foundation we have already fully prov'd the Contrary both by the Testimony of the Fathers and Solid Reason shewing that if any Errour in Faith could be admitted by the Catholique Church the Gates of Hell might in such case be absolutely said to have prevaild against her contrary to this promise of Christ. And how Bellarmin here cited by the Bishop is to be understood when he sayes there are many things DE FIDE which are not necessary to salvation is already shewn where we also prov'd that every errour in Faith contrary to what is propounded by the Church is Fundamentall But the Relatour as if his own word were a sufficient proof tells us finally that the promise of this stable Edification is made to the whole Church not to a Council Why not to both I pray to a General Council as well as to the Church The truth is it was made neither to Church nor Council directly and immediately but to St. Peter and his Successours as the Fathers above mentioned shew though for the good of the Church viz. her preservation from errour in Faith which morally could not be effected if a General Council lawfully called and confirm'd by St. Peters Successour be not Infallible or exempt from errour in its decisions of Faith To what the Bishop concludes with upon this Text that a Council hath no interest in this promised Edification further then it builds upon Christ that is upon the Doctrine Christ deliver'd the Rules he gave and the Promises he made to his Apostles and their Successours we agree with him but that a General Council confirmed by the Pope does ever reject or go contrary to these we absolutely deny To the fourth place viz. of Christs prayer for St. Peter that his faith should not fail Luke 22. 32. the Relatour will have the native sense of it to be that Christ prayed and obtained for St. Peter perseverance in the grace of God against the strong Temptation which was to winnow him above the rest And you must take it if you please upon his bare word that by Faith is here meant Grace Had the Bishop weighed the pregnancy of Bellarmins Reasons in confutation of this Exposition he could not surely have been so positive in it It should be an unnecessary prolixity to insert them here where 't is sufficient to observe the contradiction involv'd in this pretended Native sense of Christs prayer Christ according to the Bishop obtain'd for St. Peter that he should persevere in Grace But St. Peter did not still persevere in Grace for he lost it when he committed that enormous sin of Denying his Master Therefore Christ obtain'd and did not obtain one and the same thing of his Eternal Father which is a formal contradiction Our Saviour therefore prayed according to his own expression in Scripture that St. Peter might not lose Faith by an Internal act of Disbelief though the Devil should so far prevail by his Temptations as to make him say contrary to his own knowledge I know not the man you have taken prisoner But the Bishop objects thus against this Text to conclude an Infallibility hence in the Pope or in his Chair or in the Roman Sea or in a General Council though the Pope be President I finde no Antient Father that dare adventure it I answer 't is no wonder that they do not sinde who are unwilling to see Bellarmin cites and that out of Authentique Records whatever the Bishop mutters against them as Counterfeit without the least proof Lucius Felix St. Leo and Petrus Chrysologus the last of which lived above twelve hundred years ago these I say Bellarmin affirms to have adventur'd to prove from this Text what the Bishop denies And though the three first of these were Bishops of Rome yet such was their Sanctity and Learning as might well vindicate them from the least jealousie of challenging either through ignorance or ambition more then of right belong'd to their office Nay the Church of Rome was so confessedly Orthodox in their dayes that even Dr. Heylin a man bitter against Catholiques thought it not fit in his Geography to term the Roman Bishops Popes till almost two hundred years after St. Leo the last of the three And as for Chrysologus his Contemporary and no Pope he adventur'd as it were to ground the Infallibility we plead for upon this Text when he said St. Peter as yet lives and presides in his Sea and affords the true Faith to those that seek it which speech the Bishop will have to be but a flash of Rhetorique an easie way of answering the most unanswerable Authorities Had Chrysologus written or addressed his words to the Pope there might have been some colour for the Evasion but speaking them to an Heretique whom he sought to reduce into the bosome of the Catholique Church who can imagine he intended to complement the Pope Nothing but a weak Cause could drive so learned a person as the Bishop to so poor a shift So the Testimonies of Theophylact and St. Bernard are slighted by him as men of yesterday though they lived the one above five hundred the other near six hundred years ago But whoever charges St. Bernard with corrupt Doctrine either in point of Faith or Manners might as justly charge St. Austin and the Fathers of his time in which time even by the acknowledgement of Calvin when he is sober the the Church had made no departure from the Doctrine of the Apostles And for Theophylact he being a Greek Bishop and of the forwardest in siding against the Latin Church and in taxing her of Errour touching the Procession of the Holy Ghost it cannot be rationally imagin'd but what he speaks in favour of the Roman Church is extorted from him by the evidence of Truth and the known consent of all Catholique Christians in that particular As to the Gloss upon the Canon Law I answer it speaks onely of the Pope in his personal capacity as a private Doctour in which quality it is not deny'd but he may possibly erre even in Faith Hence may easily be perceiv'd how unsatisfactorily the Bishop endeavours to elude the force of this Text concerning Christs prayer for St. Peter which I have already prov'd to be extended to his Successours
of the sayd Infallibility shee may euer bee aseuredly preseru'd in the Beleefe and Profession of the true Fayth But the principall thing the Bishop would haue vs consider here is that Jnfallibility resides according to power and Right of Authority in the whole Church and in a Generall Council only by power deputed To which purpose hec cites St. Austin Petrus personam Ecclesiae Sustinet et huic datae sunt claues quum Petro datae Peter sayes hee beares the person of the Catholique Church and to her were the Keyes giuen when they were giuen to Peter I answer there is a twofold representing or bearning the person of an other to bee obseru'd The one Parabolicall or by way of meere Figure and supposition only Thus Agar Abrahams bondwoman Galat. 4. 25. 26. represents the nation or people of the Iewes yet liuing vnder the bondage of the Mosaicall law and Mount-Sion or Hierusalem the Churh of God The other Historicall and Reall viz. when the person representing has right or relation aparterei in and towards the thing represented by vertue whereof it doth in the rust and and necessary interpretation of Reason beare the person or stand for the thing represented Now St. Peter Sustained the person of the Church in this latter sense I meane Historicè non Parabolicè really and in verity of fact not in Figure or Parabolicall supposition only hee beeing such a principall and cheife member of the Church as did ratione officij virtually and truly containe in himselfe the fullness of Ecclesiasticall Power in the same manner as a King receiues the keyes of a town whereof hee takes possession for himselfe though he representeth the whole kingdome and receiues the keyes for the good thereof Thus Isay St. Peter receiu'd the keyes for himselfe as hee was Head of the Church though that Reception were indeed ordain'd for the good of the whole Church To receiue a thing in this manner is not to receiue it in the others right but in his own not withstanding it bee finally meant for the good of the other This is so cleere euen to common sense that wee haue no need of turning ouer many Classique Authours to proue it wherfore the example of an Attorney taking possession of land for a Purchaser and of one who hauing a Proxy receiues a woman with the Ceremonies of Marriage in the name of an other are not to the purpose because in such cases the person of an other is Sustain'd only Parabolicè or by way of voluntary supposition pro tempore as when a Legate receiues the keyes of a town meerly as substitute for and in the name of his King But in our case the keyes were receiued Historicè and in way of reall propriety as by the King himselfe Head of the Common-wealth so by St. Peter Head of the Church This Answer is grounded in St. Austin himselfe who teaches St. Peters receiuing the souereign Authority of the gouerning the whole Church signified hero by the keyes as hee was a Figure of the Church and represented the person of the Church to haue been propter Primatum c. by reason of the PRIMACY which hee had amongst the Apostles The like hee hath in other places So cleerly does hee explicate his own meaning and confirm the answer wee haue giuen to the text the Bishop brings Why therfore doth the Relatour labour in vayne to wrest the Keyes out of St. Peters hands and to bestow them hee knows not where They must remaine where Christ has left them St Peter and his successours know best how to vse them and how to turn them in their proper wards as the Bishop speaks In his Third Consideration hee supposes that though a Generall Council bee granted lyable to errour yet so long as the whole Catholique Church Diffusiue bee exempt from it in the Prime Foundations of Fayth absolutely necessary to saluation there is still a sufficient Meanes to preserue and reduce vnity and to preuent all inconueniences that vsually trouble the Church One of the greatest inconueniences that can possibly fall vpon the Church is errour in fayth which vpon supposition that a Generall Council may erre in such matters does vnauoydably befall the whole Church as wee haue already shew'n and that without any hopes of euer beeing certainly cleer'd of it For as one Generall Council fell into Errour so may an other and a third and a fourth etc. Vnless therfore Generall Councils bee granted infallible in matters of Fayth where is the Bishops remedy against Jnconueniences How shall the Church bee freed from Perplexity How shall vnity bee preseru'd or reducd Hee tells vs the Church vpon discouery of the errour of a former Council may represent herselfe in an other body or Council and take order for what was concluded amiss But who shall warrant that the remedy shall not proue as bad as the disease or perhaps worse who shall secure vs that the second Council shall rightly condemne the supposed errour of the first or if it happen so shall not broach two other for that one and thereby bee an occasion of fresh Jnconueniences Perplexities Contentions in and to the Church Againe how shall the whole Church vpon euidence found of the miscarriage of a Generall Council represent her selfe in an other body must euery particular member of the Church first except against the sayd errours and concurre to the election and holding of an other Council That will neuer happen For in such a multitude very many will bee of the same minde with the precedent representatiue of the Church If not all but some part only of the Churches members bee conuinced of the pretended errour and would call an other Council to 〈◊〉 it then not the whole Church in Generall but only a part of it should take vpon them to remedy the abuses of a Generall Council which is absurd Moreouer if the power of calling Generall Councils reside only in the whole Church Diffusiuely taken as the Bishop here supposeth what likelyhood is there that there should euer bee such a Council called it beeing not to bee done but by the generall consent of all Christians whose interests are so diuided and for the most part so repugnant to each other that it cannot bee doubted but when one Nation or Countrie is willing to haue a Generall Council called some other will bee found as vnwilling When will all Christians thinke you agree that both Protestants Catholiques Grecians Lutherans and all other Sectaries should meete in Councill and haue equall power and libertie to vote there which if they haue not who can expect that the excluded party will hold it a Generall Council and thinke themselues bound to submitt to it The Bishop tells vs that the Church heeretofore vsed to reforme the errours of former Councils by calling and representing her selfe in a new Councill and that this is euident in the case at Ariminum and the second of Ephesus and in
other Councils named by Bellarmin But I answer our dispute is about lawfull Generall Councils confirm'd by the Pope such as neither of these were nor any of those other which Bellarmin mentions in the place quoted by the Bishop neither can it bee sayd that those subsequent Councils which reformed the errours concluded at Ariminum and Ephesus were called by the Authority of the whole Church in generall but by the Pope in the same manner as that of Trent and others were Hee grants that the Church though it may erre hath not only a Pastorall power to teach and direct but a Pretorian also to controule and censure too where errours or crimes are against points Fundamentall or of great consequence Are not the Reall Presence Purgatory praying to Saynts the fiue Sacraments of seauen which Protestants denie and diuerse other points wherein they differ from us and the Church things of great consequence And did not the whole christian Church generally teach and profess these points both long before and at the time of Luthers departure from the Roman Church why was it not then in the power of the Church to controule and censure him with all his followers for opposing her Doctrine in the sayd points Againe if wee ought to obey the Church in points Fundamentall and of great consequence as the Bishops doctrine here cleerly implies why must wee not obey her likewise in taking those points to bee Fundamentall and of great consequence which shee holds to bee such and by her definition declares to bee such Certainly Heretiques will neuer want reason to iustifie their disobedience to the Church if allowing her authority to controule and censure only in points Fundamentall and of great consequence wee allow them the liberty to iudge and determin what points are such what not His instance of a mothers authority viz. that Obedience due to her is not to bee refused vpon her falling into errour holds not in the Church because the authority of a naturall mother is not in order to Beleefe but to Action and it does not follow that because shee hath commanded amiss in one thing that her child is not to obey her in an other which it shall not know to bee vnlawfull But the authority of the Church ouer her children consists not only in directing them what they are to doe but in obliging them to beleeue firmly and without doubt what euer shee shall esteem necessary to difine and propound to them as matter of Beleefe Now its impossible that the vnderstanding which can assent to nothing but what it apprehends to bee true nor infallibly beleeue but what it apprehends to bee infallibly true should bee mou'd with any respect due to the Church to beleeue without doubt any defined point which it did not before so long as it giues way to this opinion viz. that shee may and has defin'd and also commanded vs to beleeue as a point of Fayth a thing false in it selfe As to his citing St. Austins authority in the margent touching that text of St. Paul Ephes. 4. 27. not hauing Spot nor wrinckle c. it maks nothing against vs. For St. Austin doth not deny those words to bee vnderstood of the Church Militant but only that they are not to bee vnderstood of her in the sense giuen them by the Pelagians my meaning is hee doth not deny the doctrine of the Catholique Church vniuersally receiu'd or defin'd as matter of fayth to bee without Spot of errour but hee denies the liues of Christians euen of the most iust and perfect in this life to bee altogether without Spot of sin Neither doth St. Austin read vs any such lesson as this that the Church on earth is no freeer from wrinckles in doctrine and discipline then it is from Spots in life and conuersation but it is the Bishops own voluntary scandalous and inconsiderate assertion if hee speaks of doctrine vniuersally receiu'd and approu'd by the Church if only of doctrine and errours taught by priuate persons what is it to the purpose An other thing considered is that if wee suppose a Generall Council infallible and that it proue not so but that an errour in fayth bee concluded the same erring opinion which maks it thinke it selfe infallible makes the errour of it irreuocable and so lenues the Church without remedy I answer grant false antecedents and false premisses enough and what absurdities will not bee consequent and fill vp the conclusion an Anti-scripturist may argue this way against the infallibility euen of the Bible it selfe in the Bishops own style thus This Booke which you call the Bible and suppose to bee Gods word immediate Reuelation of Jnfallible Truth in enery thing it sayes IF IT PROVE NOT SO but that it were written only by man and containes errours THE SAME ERRING OPINION that makes you thinke 't is Gods word c. makes all the sayd errours contain'd in it wholy irreuocable and of necessity for euer to bee beleeu'd as Gods word and Diuine Reuelation Can any man deny this consequent granting the Bishops antecedent if it proue not so The inconuenience therfore which the Relatour here obiects beeing only conditionall and the condition vpon which it depends such as wee are neuer like to grant nor our aduersaries to proue wee pass it by as signifying else nothing but how willing his Lordship was to heap vp obiections against vs though such as hee and his party must answer 5. But how does the Bishop proue that a Generall Council hath erred Thus. Christ sayth hee instituted the Sacrament of his Body and Bloud in both kindes To breake Christs institution is a damnable errour this errour was committed by the Council of Constante whose words are these cited and englished by the Bishop LICET CHRISTVS c. Though Christ instituted this Venerable Sacrament and gaue it to his Disciples after supper vnder both kindes of bread and wine yet NON OBSTANTE notwithstanding this it ought not to bee consecrated after supper nor receiued but fasting And likewise that though in the Primitiue Church this Sacrament was receiued by the faythfull vnder both kindes yet this custome that it should bee receiu'd by Laymen only vnder the kinde of bread is to bee held for a law which may not bee refused And to say this is an vnlawfull custome of receiuing vnder one kinde is erronious and they which persist in saying so are to bee punished and driuen out as Heretiques The force of the obiection depends wholy on the words NON OBSTANTE which the Bishop conceiues to import that the Council defin'd receiuing vnder both kindes not to bee necessary NOTWITHSTANDING that our Sauiour so instituted it viz. in both kindes I answer Bellarmin rightly obserues that the words non obstante haue no reference to receiuing vnder both kindes but to the time of receiuing it after supper which though the Bishop bee not satisfy'd with but obiects that the NON OBSTANTE
must necessarily for ought hee can see bee referred to both clauses in the words following because both clauses went before it and hath as much force against receiuing vnder both kindes as against receiuing after supper yet I see no reason but hee might haue taken it for a full satisfaction For to mee it seemes cleere let the Bishop fancy what hee pleases that the non obstante can haue no reference but to the time of receiuing after supper For the words that follow a non obstante in any sentence haue neuer reference to any thing but what hath some opposition with it Now to consecrate and receiue fasting which the Council opposeth to what was done by Christ hath no opposition at all with the Apostles receiuing vnder two kindes For it were an absur'd and senseless proposition to say though Christ instituted this Venerable Sacrament and gaue it to his Disciples vnder both kindes yet it ought not to bee consecrated after supper nor receiued but fasting wherfore the Consecrating and receiuing fasting which is only opposed by the Non obstante to what was done by Christ hath not reference to the receiuing vnder both kindes but only to the receiuing after supper But the Relatour adds that the after-words Et similiter and likewise couple both together in this reference as if the Council by saying AND LIKEWISE though in the Primitiue Church this Sacrament was receiued vnder both kindes yet this custome that it should bee receiued by Laymen only vnder the kinde of Bread is to bee held for a law which may not bee refused should signifie that Laymen ought to receiue the Sacrament vnder one kinde not only though it bee contrary to Christs institution but also to the practise of the Primitiue Church But how will he proue that this is the signification of the words And likewise may not a man say properly though the Iewes might haue plurality of wiues yet the Christians may not and likewise though the Iewes were allowed to desire eye for eye tooth for tooth c. yet notwithstanding the Christians are not Here the words And likewise couple both sentences together and yet the Notwithstanding of the latter sentence hath no reference to the words of the first part since it were ridiculous to fay Though the Iewes might haue plurality of wiues yet Christians are not allowed to require eye for eye and tooth for tooth As the Decrees of the aforesayd Council are not contrary to the institution and ordination of Christ so neither is the practise of the Church in receiuing vnder one kinde contrary thereto To shew that the practise of the Church were contrary to Christs institution the Bishop should haue made it appeare that Christ did so institute this Sacrament of his last supper that hee would not haue one part to bee Sacrament without the other or that hee would not haue one part bee taken without the other Now neither of these two can bee proued Not that one kinde alone is not sufficient to the Sacrament for if nothing bee requisite to the essence of a Sacrament but Matter forme and a diuine promise of Grace to those that shall receiue it the words of Consecration Hoc est corpus meum is a true forme the element of bread alone is a true matter vsed by our Sauiour Hee hath also promised Grace to those that shall receiue his Body vnder the forme of bread as appeares by these words Joan. 6. Qui manducat hunc panem viuet in 〈◊〉 with what reason therefore can any one deny that the Body of Christ vnder the forme of bread is a true Sacrament Neither can it bee prou'd that Christ commanded Laymen to receiue vnder both kindes Not by these words Drinke yee all of this For if this were a command and not a Counsell as when hee sayd if J your Lord haue washed your feete you also ought to wash one an others feete it was giuen to the Apostles who all drunke of the Chalice Now as it doth not follow that Laymen are bound to baptize and preach to all nations because the Apostles were commanded to doe so so neither doth it follow that Laymen are bound to drinke of the Chalice because the Apostles were Nor can this obligation viz. that Laimen should receiue vnder both kindes bee inferred out of those other words of our Sauiour except you 〈◊〉 my flesh and drinke my bloud you shall haue no life in you Joan. 6. for if this were a precept of receiuing vnder both kindes and did generally binde all persons without restriction it would follow that all children especially such as haue the vse of reason are bound to receiue this Sacrament as well as men and women and that all such children as dyed without hauing receiu'd it would bee lyable to eternall damnation If Protestants themselus therfore doe not extend this command to persons of all ages notwithstanding that the words haue no restriction more to one age then to an other how will they proue from thence that all Laymen are bound to receiue vnder both kindes Beside wee will shew hereafter that euen in the Primitiue Church when the custome was to receiue vnder both kindes the Sacrament was many times administred vnder one kinde only 6. But the Relatour pretends wee are vnreasonable in holding Generall Councils infallible because sayth hee no Body collectiue whensoeuer it assembled it selfe did euer giue more power to the representing Body of it then a binding power vpon all particulars and it selfe nor euer did it giue this power otherwise then with this reseruation in nature that it would call againe and reforme yea and if need were abrogate any law or ordinance vpon iust cause made euident that the Representing Body had failed in trust or truth But this is only to suppose and take for granted what hee neuer yet proued viz. that a Generall Council hath no authority but what is meerly delegate from the Church vniuersall which it represents whereas wee maintaine its authority to bee of diuine institution and when lawfully assembled to act by diuine right and not meerly by deputation and consent of the Church as wee haue also prou'd in the precedent chapter True it is the calling of such assemblies was taken vp and hath for its pattern the example of the Apostles Acts. 15. yet surely there 's as little doubt to bee made but the Apostles had both direction and precept too for doing it so often as iust occasion requr'd from Christ himselfe Though therfore a Generall Council bee the Church representatiue and doe not meete or assemble together hic et nunc but by order and deputation from Man yet it followes no but the power and authority by which they act when they are 〈◊〉 bee from God as doubtless it is Jn the first Council of the Apostles the Body Collectiue as the Bishop calls it that is the People that beleeu'd did neither send nor chuse the persons to sit in it neither
may say that Christ hath made two promises to his Church the one to assist her souereign Head and Pastour so as that he shall neuer define any thing to be beleeu'd by all the Faythfull but what is diuine truth The other so to assist Generall Councils or the Representatiues of the Church that they shall neuer erre in the doctrine they determin Now those that affirme the Pope alone or without a Generall Council to be infallible as well as Generall Councils hold these two promises to haue been made by our sauiour and that when the Pope defines in Generall Councils his infallibility proceeds from the latter promise by vertue of which the definitions of Councils confirm'd by the Pope would be infallible although the other promise had not been made as the Council at Hierusalem would haue been infallible by vertue of the infallible Assistance which was promised to euery Representatiue of Christs Church though each Apostle had not been endowed with that prerogatiue The Bishop wonders that they which affirme the Pope cannot erre doe not affirm likewise that he cannot sinne But why does he not wonder too that Christ should giue infallibility in teaching to St. Peter as the Relatour cannot denie but he did and yet not preserue him from those defects for which St. Paul sayth 〈◊〉 was truly reprebensible Could not his Lordship obserue that infallibility in the Head of the Church would be an effectuall meanes to settle Religion confirme the Faythfull suppress Heresies preuent differences in matter of Fayth c. seeing none would oppose the doctrine of the Pope if they held him infallible whereas no such good would accrue to the Church in point of sanctity though the Pope were impeccable and held so to be by all Christians For seeing that Prerogatiue in Christ whome they hold to be their iudge and to haue power to condemne them to euerlasting flames cannot keep them in their duty much less would the Popes impeccability doe it though they did all generally beleeue it Lastly as the infallibility of the Pope is in so many respects profitable for the Church more then his immunity from sin would be so the Assertours of it doe alledge many probable and pregnant arguments from scripture and Ecclesiasticall Writers to proue it but for his impeccability none can be alledged 8. What can be inferred from Pope Liberius his demanding the iudgement of St. Athanasius I cannot see vnless the Relatour had first shew'n that the Pope did this after he had pass'd a definition ex 〈◊〉 in the matter But in his allegation of S. Ambrose he mistaks worst of all The Bishops intent is to shew that the Popes definitions in matters of Fayth are fallible and subiect to errour why because St. Ambrose lib. 1. epist. 83. 〈◊〉 that many did aske his opinion touching the obseruation of Easter post 〈◊〉 Ecclesiae definitionem Episcopi quoque Romanae Ecclesiae after the definition of the Church of Alexandria and also of the Bishop of Rome whereas the context of St. Ambrose makes it cleere that he speakes not of any Doctrinall or 〈◊〉 definitions touching that point which had been long before determined by the Council of Nice but only of such Definitions and Rules for obseruing the precise time on which Easter day fell as by the appointment of the Nicen Council the Bishop of Alexandria was yearly to send to the Pope and the Pope yearly to publish to the rest of the Church That such Astronomicall not Thcologicall Definitions were published annually is manifest from Baronius and the reason was for that though by the decree of the Councill of Nice all Christian Churches of Catholique Communion did celebrate Easter not vpon the Decima quarta mensis primi or day of the Iewish Pasche but vpon the day following yet by reason of the different accompts or computation of time through the various ending and begining of Monthes it fell out that all did not celebrate it vpon the same sunday Wherfore to remedy this inconuenience and reduce the obseruation of Easter as much as might be to a generall vniformity it was order'd by the Councill of Nice that by reason the Egyptians were held to be the most exact and experienced of all other nations in the calculation of time the Bishop of 〈◊〉 in Egypt should take care that the fall of Easter day might be exactly calculated euery yeare by such as were most skillfull in that art and the calculation sent to the Bishop of Rome so seasonably as that he might haue time enough to 〈◊〉 notice of it to all other Christian Churches to the end that Easter might be obseru'd on the same day throughout the whole Church Hence comes the frequent mention of the Cycly and 〈◊〉 Paschales in antiquity and of these only St. Ambrose speakes as is cleere by the whole epistle cited by the Bishop and not of any thing Doctrinall or Dogmaticall touching the question of Easter or anything else The Reader may see if he please Baronius Tom. 3. ad Ann. 325. num 110. 111. and Petauius de doctrin Temp. against Scaliger lib. 2. cap. 57. pag. 205. Also his notes upon Epiphanius in Heres Quarto-decimam Nor will those Prophesies as the Bishop calls them out of 〈◊〉 amount to any iust proofe of the Popes fallibility in the sense where in Catholiques deny it vnless he proue the Popes taught them as matters of Fayth to the whole Church Againe he mistakes by affirming that Pope Alexander the Third with a Councill of three hundred Archbishops and Bishops held at Rome condemn'd Peter Lombard of Heresie and that after he had layn vnder that sentence for the space of thirty six yeares Innocent the Third restor'd him and condemn'd his accusers The 〈◊〉 of the historie is only this After Peter Lombards death there was obseru'd in some of his writings this proposition Christus secundum quod est homo non est aliquid which beeing contrary to the Catholique doctrine touching the perfection of Humane Nature in Christ was indeed condemned by Pope Alexander as the Bishop tells you but was neuer approu'd by Pope Innocent That which Innocent approu'd was only the sayd Peter Lombards doctrine concerning the Trinity against which the Abbot 〈◊〉 had written all which you may read in Baronius and Spondanus his continuation of him in the yeares 1164. 1179 and 1215. Whence it appears that neither part of the Bishops 〈◊〉 concludes any thing against vs. For neither did Pope Alexander erre in comdemning the sayd Proposition of Lombard notwithstanding the Relatour 〈◊〉 and without any reason giuen reproaches him with errour nor yet Pope Innocent in iustifying his doctrine against the Abbot Ioachim for the ones condemnation and the others approbation were of seuerall propositions Alexander condemning a proposition touching the matter of the Incarnation which was neuer repeald by Pope Innocent and Jnnocent approuing his doctrine in the matter of the B. Trinity which was neuer condemn'd by
Pope Alexander How sharp-sighted therfore our aduersarie is in his obseruations against vs appeares by this But seeing these forked syllogismes so Dilommas are sometimes called by Logicians are such Currant Coine with his Lordship it will not I hope be thought vnreasonable if wee pay him one for many Thus then I argue Either the Bishop knew his Relation touching Peter Lombard to be false or he know it not If he knew it not his ignorance in a point wherein he would seeme knowing is hardly excusable and his temerity in affirming without sure ground such a thing as this to the scandall of the 〈◊〉 Pastour of the Church and of a synod of three hundred Bishops and Archbishops by his own confession altogether blameable If he knew it to be false and yet would affirme what he did where is his honestie The like is to be sayd of his 〈◊〉 touching Pope 〈◊〉 and the eight Generall Council defining against Honorius there 's a mistake in it For neither did Pope Honorius really maintaine the Monothelites Heresie nor doe wee maintaine but in a question of Fact as this was viz. whether the sayd Pope had really asserted that Heresie both the Pope and a Generall Council through Misinformation or other Jucidents may iudge amiss The Bishop proceeds asking vs in the next paragraph to this effect that since the doctrine of the Popes infallibility had been so easie a way eyther to preuent all diuisions about the Fayth or to end all controuersies of that nature whensoeuer they should arise why this briefe but most necessary Proposition THE BISHOP OF ROME CANNOT ERRE IN HIS JUDICJALL DETERMINATIONS CONCERNING THE FAYTH is not to be found in letter or sense in any stripture Council or Father of the Church I answer first that in the sense wherein Catholiques maintaine the Popes infallibility to be matter of necessary beleese to all Christians it is found for sense both in scripture Councils and Fathers as wee haue already sufficiently proued in prouing the infallibility of Generall Councils of which he is the most principall and most necessary member Secondly euen in the sense wherein the Bishop with perpetuall impertinency 〈◊〉 it viz. as it signifies his personall infallibity without a Generall Council who knowes not that the maintainers of that opinion alledge both scriptures Fathers and Councils for it probably at least as may be seen in their 〈◊〉 disputations vpon that subiect To omitt scripture wherein wee confess there is no express mention of the Pope but only of S. Peter in whose Right the Pope succeeds what thinke you of the Council of 〈◊〉 doth not that Council seem to say in effect that the Pope is infallible when vpon reading of his 〈◊〉 to them in 〈◊〉 of the 〈◊〉 Heresie the 〈◊〉 Assembly of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 out with acclamation and profess that St. Peter who was infallible spake by the mought of Leo and that the Pope was Interpreter of the Apostles voice what thinke you of the Council of 〈◊〉 doe not the Fathers in that Council seeme to attribute infallibility to the Pope when they acknowledge that St. Peter was Head and Foundation of the Church and that he STILLL 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 causes of Fayth in and by his successours the Bishops of 〈◊〉 Doth not St. Hierome seeme to make Pope Damasus infallible when speaking of him and his particular Sea he sayes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. vpon this Rocke J know the Church which can 〈◊〉 faile or fall away from the 〈◊〉 Fayth is built Did not St. Austin doe the same with the whole Council of 〈◊〉 when beside their own suffrage which was but of a particular Prouinciall Council they requir'd nothing but the 〈◊〉 sentence only to the full and effectuall condemning of the Pelagian Heresie doth he not speake also to the same effect When he 〈◊〉 that the succession of the Roman Bishops is that very Rock of the Church against which the proude Gates of Hell shall neuer preuaile I might adde St. Cyprian formerly alledged as also St. Leo Pope Innocent the first Pope Gelasius St. Gregory with others but I feare it would be answered that they were Popes and spake partially in their owne cause Beside hauing hitherto wholy declined the defence of that assertion and professed that it would be sufficient for Protestants to acknowledge the Pope infallible in and with Generall Councils only I haue no obligation to engage further in that business nor can I thinke it any way expedient to make the entrance into Catholique Communion seeme narrower to our aduersaries then in truth it is and of necessity must be maintayn'd to be CHAP. 22. The Bishops vaine endeauour to finde out Errours in Generall Councils confirm'd by the Pope ARGVMENT 1. The Councils of Florence and Trent err'd not in defining the Priests intention to be necessary to the validity of Sacraments 2. Why the Popes Confirmation is necessary to the definitions of Generall Councils 3. Transubstantiation no errour nor any such late or new doctrin as the Relatour pretends without shew of proofe 4. Communion under one kinde no errour but the allowed practice of the Church in Primitiue times 5. Inuocation of Saynts no errour but the doctrine and practice of the Fathers 6. Not derogatory eyther to the Merits or Mediation of Christ our Sauiour 7. Adoration or worshiping of Images as allowed by the doctrine of the Church neither Idolatrie nor Errour 8. Optatus both partially and impertinently alledg'd by the Bishop 9. Priuate abuses in this or any other matter not iustly imputable to the Church 10. Cassander qualis vir 11. Llamas misunderstood by the Relatour 1. THe Bishop here and in the Following paragraphs brings in a fresh charge of errours in matter of Fayth committed by such Generall Councils as the Pope confirmed The first in the endictement is that of the Priests Jntention which the Councils of Florence and Trent both of them confirm'd by the Pope defin'd to be essentially necessary to the validity of a Sacrament which the Bishop thinks is an errour But before he goes about to proue it to be such he forgets not to tell vs that the Popes infallibility of which wee talke so much is a vayne and vseless thing Why I pray His reason is for that before the Church or any particular man can make vse of it that is be settled and confirm'd in the truth by meanes thereof he must eyther know or vpon sure ground beleeue that he is infallible But sayes the Bishop this can only be beleeu'd of him as he is St. Peter's Successour and Bishop of Rome of which it is impossible in the Relatours opinion for the Church or any particular man to haue such certaintie as is sufficient to ground an infallible beleefe Why because the knowledge and beleefe of this depends vpon his beeing truly in Orders truly a Bishop truly a Priest truly baptised none of all which according to our principles can
NO LONGER that which Nature fram'd viz. bread and wine but that which the Benediction of Consecration hath made it to be What 's that but the Body and Bloud of Christ adding further thus you will say perhaps I see an other thing Why do you tell me Jreceiue the Body of Iesus Christ How many Examples haue wee to proue that the force of Benediction is greater then that of Nature seeing that by Benediction euen nature it selfe is often changed Againe also This bread is bread before the words of the Sacrament but when Consecration comes OF BREAD IT IS MADE THE FLESH OF CHRIST They that desire to see more testimonies to confirme this truth may finde them in Bellarmin libr. 3. de Eucharist cap 20. and in diuerse other Catholique Authours Euen the words of scripture it selfe taken in their proper and literall sense doe euidently shew that the only substance which is deliuer'd in this Sacrament is the Body of Christ and that the substance of bread is no more there For as he that pointing to an hogs-head of wine sayes this is wine and he that holding vp a purse-full of money says this is gold if he intends to speake truth must signify that the only liquour contain'd sub propria forma in the hogs-head is wine and all the money in the purse gold so our Sauiour Christ by saying this is my Body must giue vs to vnderstand that all the substance contained vnder the accidents he shew'd was his Body which could not be true vnless the substance of bread were changed into Christs Body or ceased to be in the Sacrament There 's a great deale of difference between these two propositions here is gold and this is gold He that holds a handfull of money of which halfe is gold and halfe syluer may truly say here is gold but he cannot truly say this is gold So is it in the B. Sacrament If there were both the substance of bread and of the Body of Christ in it wee might truly say shewing the Sacrament here is the Body of Christ or this is bread and the Body of Christ but not this is the Body of Christ. Seeing therfore our Sauiour at this last supper speaking of the Sacrament sayd this is my Body the meaning of his words must needs be that in what he then shewed there was no other substance but that of his Body whence it followes that there was a true conuersion of the substance of the bread which ceased to be any longer vnder the species of bread into the Body of Christ. 4. An other pretended errourof a Generall Council confirm'd by the Pope is that of administring the B. Sacrament to the Layty vnder one kinde only of which wee hauc already spoken what may suffice in the precedent chapter Neuertheless to that little which the Relatour adds here wee answer briefly The authority of St. Thomas brought by the Bishop makes rather for vs then against vs. For he tells vs 't was a custome prouidently obserued in some Churches not to giue the Sacrament in forme of wine to the Laity His words are Prouidè in quibusdam Ecclesijs obseruatur vt populo Sanguis non detur This Prouision was made to auoyd the danger of spilling and other inconueniences which likewife mou'd the Council of Constance to make a Generall Decree to the same purpose although it be certain that not only in St. Thomas his time but in all times of the Church it were both publiquely allowed and commonly by some practised euen in Churches to receiue vnder one kinde only For otherwise how is it possible that the Manichees who by the principles of their Heresie neuer dranke wine nor communicated vnder the Forme of wine should yet finde liberty and opportunity to Communicate amongst Catholiques in Catholique Churches without beeing perceiu'd as 't is certaine they frequently did in St. Leo's time and after Likewife t is euident that all Heremites in the wildernefs communicated often vnder one kinde only So did trauellers in their iourneyes Sicke persons in their beds and others at home in their howses Lastly Children in the Church and little infants at home in their cradles in forme of wine only Wee grant that in ancient times when the number of Christians was but small it was the ordinary custome for all that would the Laity as well as others to receiue the Eucharist in both kindes but wee auerre this custome proceeded meerly out of free denotion and not out of any beleefe that it was absolutely necessary so to doe by vertue of Christs precept or that it was contrary to the substance of Christs institution to doe otherwise This therfore euinces not that which the Bishop was obliged to proue namely that receiuing vnder one kinde only is an errour contrary to the institution and intention of Christ but rather the contrary to that is manifest from the practice of the Church which always euen in the first fiue or six hundred years allowed it publiquely to be taken vnder the forme of bread only and that as well in the Church as out of it as Bellarmin likewise more largely shews lib. 4. de Eucharist cap. 24. Whose authorities the Bishop shoul haue taken notice of and not thought it sufficient only to say this and that is an errour and contrary to Christs institution without shew of proofe For wee tell him the vniuersall practice of the Church is a better interpreter of Christs institution then the Bishop or any priuate person whatsoeuer and so wee doubt not but all sober-minded Christians not too much peruerted with Hereticall preiudice will in time acknowledge Howeuer the Relatour by his silence as to this particular giues vs leaue to goe on and consider his fourth obiected errour viz. Inuocation of Saynts to which he adds a fift also Adoration or worship of Images both of them wee confess beeing points admitted and defin'd by the Council of Trent which the Pope confirm'd 5. Against the Jnuocation of Saynts he tells vs in the first place that what the Fathers haue in fauour of it is only Rhetoricall flourishes for the stirring vp of deuotion as they thought Very good When the Fathers deliuer Propositions soe cleerly for vs that it is not possible for our aduersaries to wrest them to any contrary sense then all 's but Rhetorique and Hyperbolicall straines of 〈◊〉 but when they speake any thing that beares some shew against vs then they are dogmaticall that 's positiue Diuinity and the reall sense of the Fathers Is not this faire dealing But in the meane time how can it seeme to any that duly considers it but most extreamely partiall and strange to terme so many exhortations so many plaine and positiue assertions so many instances examples histories reports and the like which the Fathers frequently vse and afford in this kinde and that vpon occasions wherein dogmaticall and plaine deliuery of Christian doctrine and truth is expected
much as in them lyeth what euer danger or inconuenience may possibly happen to their people eyther by scandalous practises or perhaps curious and misinterpretable assertions of priuate persons in the matter of Images And Protestants if they had charity would iudge the best namely that the Ordinary Pastours of the Church doe themselues effectually obey the Council herein and the people them and not condemne the whole Church Pastours and people together of Paganish Idolatrie and superstition vpon meere surmises as the Relatour more then seems to doe in this place especially considering that if neglect or Disobedience be eyther in Pastours or people it is not the Churches but their own personall fault who are guilty of it the Church hauing taken the best and most sufficient order that shee can for the right instruction of those that belong to her 8. Wee acknowledge no less then the Bishop the Church hath always had great care to avoyd the least resemblance with Paganisme in any thing and that therfore his Lordship might well note as he doth in the Margent that the Christians in Optatus his time were MVCH TROVBLED vpon a false report that some were coming to sett an Jmage vpon their Altar viz. immediately before the Oblation of the B. Eucharist was to be celebrated thereon But what kinde of Jmage this was appears not in any sort by Optatus his text The Relatour indeed by his discourse takes it for granted 't was eyther the Crucifix or some other Image which the Church of Rome now alloweth for he brings this passage of Optatus by way of instance to shew that the ancient Church would not endure that the present Church of Rome alloweth in point of Images But his supposition is easily denyed Jn all probability it was eyther some Jdoll according to that which Albaspineas obserues in his Notes vpon this place which is that some copies read Dei Imaginem the Jmage of a God or else some common Image of a man as perhaps of the Emperour for they were the Emperours officers that were bringing it or of the Gouernour of the Prouince which kinde of Images 't is confess 't the Christians in those times would not endure should be worshiped nor so much as stand in the place of Gods worship towit vpon the Altar as appeares both by Tertullian in his Apologie for the Christians and by Eusebius But that it was any Image of Christ or of his B. Mother or of any of the Apostles or other Saynts is wholy improbable For why should Christians be so troubled at them seeing 't is well know'n that such Images as these were in common vse and veneration too amongst Christians in the ancient Church witness that of Tertullian Apolog. cap. 16. where the Christians are called as it were by a common nickname of the Heathens Crucis Religiosi as if you would say Cross-worshipers or Votaries of the Cross and that of S. Chrysostome Homil. QVOD CHRISTVS EST DEVS where he testifies that in his time the Cross of Christ made a glorious shew vpon the Altar with many other testimonies of antiquity that might be alledged So that from this passage of Optatus the Bishop euinces nothing against evther the vse or that worship of Images which the Church alloweth That which he might haue much more rightly obseru'd from the place is how plainly this Father makes mention of Altars and of a Sacrifice to be offered thereon as know'n things and of confessed beleefe and practice amongst Christians in his time Cum Altaria solenniter ponerentur Et sic Sacrificium offerretur and a little after cum viderent DIVINIS SACRIFICIIS nec mutatum quicquam nec additum all expressly and vndenyably mean't of the Sacrifice of the Holy Eucharist or Mass. But it suited not with the Relatours designe to make any such Remarques 9. As little are wee concern'd in those authorities of Tertullian St. Austin and others which the Bishop alledges as finding fault with the making of Feasts at the Oratories of Martyrs which seem to him a kinde of Parentalia or funerall feasts which the Jdolatrous Gentiles in former times vsed Wee confess the Gentiles Parentation was vnlawfull and Jdolatrous because they did therby offer Sacrifice to the Ghosts of the dead as Tertullian shews St. Austin likewise found fault not without cause with those Christians who placed wine and banquets vpon the 〈◊〉 of the Martyrs and afterwards rioted and made themselues drunke with it Such a custome as this deserv'd to be reprehended and St. Austin might iustly no doubt tell vs the better Christians did it not 'T was forbidden likewise by St. Ambrose and others both because it had some resemblance more then was fitting with that condemned superstition of the Gentiles Parentalia and also because it gaue occasion of drunkeness though it be scarcely imaginable that those Christians who vsed it did intend to offer any Sacrifice to the Martyrs but only to haue those things which they sett vpon their tombes sanctify'd by God for the Martyrs merits Nor did this custome euer preuaile much in the Church it beeing at its first coming vp so generally reprehended by the Catholique Pastours of the Church that the following ages by little and little layd it quite down so as at present it seems wholy extirpated and that for many hundred of yeares last past neither practice nor shadow of it can be shew'n in the Church 10. To his allegation of 〈◊〉 who seems to reprehend the Custome of the Church in the Adoration of Jmages I answer that the doctrine of this Authour is not wholy Orthodox He was a man in his time that seem'd to a great many to halt as it were between God and Baal that is to be neither perfect Catholique nor profess't Protestant and in his works he professedly labours to reconcile Catholique religion with that of Protestants but as it must needs happen to all such vndertakers with so bad success that the results of all his study and endeauours that way pleas'd neither party The Bishop will needs haue it thought that he was one of ours and that he liu'd and dy'd in our Communion and wee grant he made no externall separation from vs nor was excommunicated or cast out of the Church by any sentence or Excommunication ab homine but whether or no he might not incurre Excommunication Meritoriously and so be depriu'd of the Churches Communion Sententiâ iuris by reason of those many vnsound and vniustifyable Assertions which are scatter'd vp and down his writings too much in fauour of Heresie and of the enemies of the Church is not soe easie to determin Howeuer he is long since dead and charity obliges vs to hope the best of him namely that before his death he did effectiuely repent and reuoke whateuer out of humane frailty and complyance with the designes of such Temporall princes as sett him on worke some of which were not
and that wee could be heard in our prayers and expect releefe not from the Jmages but from the Prototypes which as it is the plaine doctrine of the Church declar'd by the Councils of Nice and Trent so 't is all that in this question I haue vndertaken to defend CHAP. 23. Of the Bishops Confession that Saluation may be had in the Roman Church and the Consequences therupon ARGVMENT 1. The Bishop though not willingly grants in Express terms that some Catholiques may be sau'd and in effect that all 2. A 〈◊〉 Argument That ours is the SAFER way because Protestants as well as wee confess it SAFE explicated and defended 3. Catholiques not iustly tax'd with want of Charity for telling Protestants they cannot be sau'd out of the Communion of the Ro man Church 4. Nothing to be concluded in fauour of the Bishop against A 〈◊〉 Maxim from the agreement of old betwixt Catholiques and Donatists in point of Baptisme 5. Catholiques and Protestants doe not agree in any reall participation of Christ proper to the Sacrament 6. what Catholique Authors meane when they speake of Spiritually-receiuing Christ and of a Spirituall presence in the Eucbarist 7. No perill of Schisme Heresie c. in Communicating with the Roman Church 8. The Relatours various windings vpon this subiect obseru'd 9. No Parallel betwixt A C. argument and that of Petilian the Donatist 10. A C. vniustly tax'd with vntruth By the Bishop 11. Our aduersaries Remainder of instances consider'd and satisfy'd 1. IN this Paragraph the Bishop brings in the Lady asking him whether shee might be saued in the Roman Fayth and though by his answer he grants cleerly enough that there is possibility of Saluation in the Roman Church yet who those are amongst vs whome he thinks may be sau'd is not so cleer Sometimes he seem's to say that those only may be saued who though they erre yet want sufficient ground eyther to doubt or know their errours as for instance when he writes the ignorant that cannot discern the errours of the Church so they hold the foundation and conforme themselues to a religious life may be saued And afterwards wee haue not so learned Christ as to deny Saluation to some ignorant silly soules whose humble peaceable Obedience makes them safe among any part of men that profess the foundation Christ. Likewise there 's no question but many were saued in corrupted times of the Church when their Leaders vnless they repented besore death were lost In other places he seemes to intimate that men may be sau'd in the Roman Church though the Truth by which he meanes the doctrine of Protestants be sufficiently proposed to them but not acknowledged by them as where he sayth Protestants indeed confess there is Saluation possible to be attained in the Roman Church but yet they say withall that the errours of that Church are so many and some so great as weaken the Foundation that it is very hard to goe that way to Heauen especially to them that haue had the Truth manifested Now surely if it be but very hard going that way to Heauen it is not altogether impossible Againe I am willing sayth he to hope there are many among them which keep within that Church meaning the Roman and yet wish the superstitions abolished which they know and which pray to God to forgiue their errours in what they know not and which hold the Foundation sirme and liue accordingly and which would haue all things amended that are amiss were it in their power And to such I dare not deny a possibility of Saluation for that which is Christs in them though they hazzard themselues extremely by keeping so close to that which is Superstition and in the case of Images comes too neere Idolatrie Item I doe indeed for my part acknowledge a possibility of Saluation in the Roman Church but so as that which I grant to Romanists is not as they are Romanists but as they are Christians that is as they beleeue the Creed and hold the Foundation Christ himselfe not as they associate themselues wittingly and willingly to the gross superstitions of the Romish Church Js not this plainly to confess that euen those of the Roman Church who doe willingly and knowingly associate themselues to the gross superstitions of that Church may possibly be saued though not indeed as they doe this but as they are Christians and beleeue in the Foundation Christ Lastly when he asks as it were in anger would you haue vs as malicious or at least as rash as your selues are to vs and deny you so much as possibility of Saluation Euen Mistaken Charity if such it were is farre better then none at all And if the MISTAKEN be ours the NONE is yours etc. Doth he not cleerly pretend by this to be more Charitable that is to grant more to vs Catholiques in this particular of beeing sau'd then wee doe to them Seeing then that euen wee Catholiques grant possibility of Saluation to those who ioyne with the Protestant Church if theyr ignorance be inuincible wee cannot but suppose his pretended charity grants more to vs namely that there is possibility of beeing sau'd to those that ioyne with the Roman Church though their ignorance be not inuincible and though all or the chiefe motiues which Protestants bring against vs be neuer so sufficiently propos'd to them Now if on the one side both Catholiques and Protestants agree in this that such as hold all the opinions of our Church and continue in them till death notwithstanding their beeing thoroughly acquainted with all the contrary reasons and doctrine of Protestants may attayne Saluation and if on the other side all Catholiques as well those that now are as the infinite multitude which hath been since a thousand yeares last past according to Protestants own account and confession doe deny possibility of beeing sau'd to such as liue and dye in the Protestant Church except in case of inuincible ignorance who can doubt but that our Church is cleerly the safer way of the two to Saluation and therfore in prudence to be embraced rather then that of Protestants 2. But what shall wee say to those Protestants who grant no more to vs then wee doe to them in order to Saluation How shall those among our Aduersaries be conuinc'd that the Roman Church and Religion is the safer way to Heauen who will allow none of our Religion to be in a capacity to Saluation but such as are in no capacity of knowing and vnderstanding their errours J might bring many arguments to conuince them in this point but for breuity sake J shall confine my selfe to these only which follow That Church and Religion is the more safe way to Saluation in which many are saued according to the principles which are granted on both sides then an other in which many are sau'd only according to the principles or doctrine of one party but very few or none according
principles should haue this firme Sure and vndoubting Fayth concerning any mysterie of Religion They will say vpon the Authority of Gods Reuelation or the written word But Jaske how is it possible for them to beleeue any diuine truth firmly certainly and infallibly for the Authority of scripture or the written word vnless they doe first firmly certainly and infallibly beleeue that scripture is the true word of God and that the sense of the words is such as they vnderstand and how can they beleeue this most firmly and certainly if they neither are nor can be infallibly sure according to their own principles that the Church erreth not in deliuering such and such bookes for Canonicall scripture or that those passages vpon which they ground their beleefe are the very same with the Originall Text or in case they vnderstand not the Originalls that there hath been no errour committed in the Translation of them yea doe they not hold principles absolutely inconsistent with this certainty when they teach that not only priuate men but Generall Councils and euen the whole Church may erre in matters of great consequence How can they then be sure that the words of scripture for which they beleeue the Diuinity of Christ for example are to be vnderstood in that sense in which themselues vnderstand them and not in the sense which the Arians put vpon them If Generall Councils and the whole Church may erre in expounding scripture what certainty of beleefe can wee haue in this and in diuerse other like points Jf it be answered that Christs Diuinity is a Fundamentall point and that in Fundamentall points wee must beleeue the Church J reply this answer satisfies not the difficulty For J aske vpon what ground doe wee beleeue it to be a Fundamentall point if because the whole Church teaches it to be so and the whole Church cannot erre in points Fundamentall I answer it must first be proued that the Arians are no part of the whole Church for if they be a part of it the whole Church doth not teach it To say the Arians are noe part of the whole Church because they erre in Christs Diuinity which is a point Fundamentall is to suppose that for certaine which is principally in question That Christs Diuinity therfore is a point Fundamentall must be prou'd some other way then by the Authority of the whole Church If that way be scripture the former difficultie returns viz. how a man shall be sure according to Protestant principles that scripture is to be vnderstood in the Catholique sense and not in the sense of Arians And if it be any other way beside scripture according to Protestant principles it will not be infallible but subiect to errour and consequently will not be sufficient to ground infallible certainty 'T is euident therfore that Protestants standing to their grounds cannot beleeue eyther the Trinity or Christs Diuinity and Incarnation or the Redemption of mankinde by his death or any other mysterie and point of Fayth with that firmeness and certaintie which is requisite to an Acte of Fayth nay it followes that they cannot be altogether sure of these mysteries of Christian Religion as they are or may be of things related euen by heathen Historians seeing more agree that those things are true then that the sense of scripture in those controuerted points is such as Protestants vnderstand These Arguments wee conceiue sufficient to conuince any rationall vnderstanding that the Roman Church and Religion is a safer way to saluation then that of Protestants Lett vs now take notice of the Bishops answers and assertions touching this question 3. Whereas therfore Protestants doe commonly taxe vs for want of Charity because wee generally deny Saluation to those that are out of our Church A. C. proued that this denyall besides the threatnings of Christ and the Holy Fathers denounced against all such as are not within the Communion of the true Church is grounded euen vpon Charity it beeing farre more charitable to forewarn a man plainly of a danger then to let him run into it through a false security There is but one true Fayth Sayth he and one true Church out of which is no Saluation and he that will not heare this Church lett him be vnto the Sayth Christ himselfe Matth. 18. 17. as an Heathen and Publican If Saluation then may be had in our Church as the Bishop with other Protestants consessed and there be noe true Church nor true Fayth but one in and by which Saluation may be had as is likewise confessed it followes that out of our Church there is noe Saluation to be hoped for and consequently that it is no want of Charity in vs to tell Protestants of this but rather want of light and good vnderstanding in them to thinke our admonition to be vncharitable The Bishop himselfe confesses that he who will not both heare and obey the Catholique Christian Church yea the particular Church in which he liues too so farre as it in necessaries agrees with the vniversall is in as bad a condition as an Heathen or a Publican and perhaps in some respects worse But he errs very much in the conceite he frames of the Catholique Church that must teach vs it beeing a thing according to his description more like an Jdea platonica or Chimaera of some phantasticall braine then a true subsistent assemblie or Societie of Christians a thing as little able to speake or declare with requisite authority any certain and vniforme doctrine or matter to be beleeu'd as himselfe and his party are vnwilling to hearken to the truth For by the Catholique Church in his notion nothing else is 〈◊〉 vnderstood but a mixed multitude of all 〈◊〉 and facts of Christians viz. Greeks Armenians Lutherans Caluinists Prelaticall and Presbyterian Protestants Anabaptists 〈◊〉 and what not beside the Roman Catholiques But how is it possible that such a Church as this should euer instruct and command vs what to beleeue How shall a man that 〈◊〉 in the 〈◊〉 or in any other remote part of the world heare the common voyed of a Church which speaks by the mouth of so many disagreeing parties or how shall a man be sure that such and such a doctrine is rightly commanded him by the Catholique Church taken euen in the Bishops own sense vnles he be first 〈◊〉 what the Fayth is without which it is impossible to be a part of the Catholique Church Lastly how shall he before that all who profess that Fayth doe also teach and command the doctrinal which in obedience to the Bishops 〈◊〉 Church he is requir'd to beleeue Againe if Donatists for any thing the Bishop 〈◊〉 held the Foundation and consequently were a part of the Catholique Church and if errours that come too neere 〈◊〉 are 〈◊〉 repugnant to the word of God and doe shake the very foundation of Christian beleefe as the Relatour pretends our opinions doe may be found in that which is 〈◊〉 the
greatest and most considerable pair of the Catholique Church what reason could the Apostle haue to shy that the doctrine of forbidding Marriage and eating certaine meats was a doctrine of 〈◊〉 and that those who held it should sall from the 〈◊〉 why might not the teachers of such doctrines be a part of the Catholique Church as well as the Donatists and those that maintaine other dangerous opinions which in the Bishops iudgement doe Shake but doe not ouerthrow the Foundation of true Fayth necessary to Saluation or if they might be a part of the Catholique Church notwithstanding their departure from the Fayth by holding of such doctrines what shall hinder but the Arians and all other Heretiques whatsoeuer if they 〈◊〉 the doctrine of Christ may notwithstanding their errours and how euer they vnderstand the words of Christ pretend to be parts of the Catholique Church whose common voyce wee 〈◊〉 bound to heare and with all submission to obey 〈◊〉 see here good Reader what a Church the Bishop assigns the to heare and follow vnder paine of beeing in as bad or perhaps in 〈◊〉 worse condition then an Heathen and Publican 4. His Lordship next taske is to impugn the Argument which A. C. brings to proue that the Roman Church and Religion is the safer way to Saluation because both parties viz. Catholiques and Protestants doe agree that Saluation may be had in it but doe not both of them agree that it may be had in the Protestant Church and Religion The Bishop brings 〈◊〉 instances to shew that this Agreement of both parties is no sufficient ground to thinke that ours is the safer way His first instance is this The Baptisme of the Donatists was held true and valid both by 〈◊〉 Donatists themselnes and the Orthodox also but that of the Orthodox was held true and valid only by the Orthodox and not by the Donatists yet none of vs grant that the Orthodox were bound to embrace the Baptisme of the Donatists as the safer way of the two How then does it follow that a man ought to embrace the Roman Church and Religion as the safer way to heauen because both parties agree that in the Roman Church there is possibility of Saluation but doe not agree there is the like possibility among Prorestants This is the Summe and 〈◊〉 of his first instance To which J answer that no Orthodox could embrace the 〈◊〉 of the Donatists as the safer way but he must committ two sins the one of disobedience to the Orthodox Church which so bad communication with Donatists and all other Heretiques in diuine Rites such as the administration of Sacraments is the other against Fayth which obliged him to beleeue the Baptisme of the Orthodox to be as safe as the other Now how could any man be fuyd to take the safer way to Saluation by embracing the Baptisme of the Donatists for the agreement of both parties touching its validity when the greatest and most considerable 〈◊〉 to witt that of the Orthodox hold it cannot be done except in case of necessity without damnable 〈◊〉 which dobarrs the soule from heauen 〈◊〉 whereas the case put by vs is quite different from this For wee suppose Protestants grant a man may line and dye in the Roman Church and that none of his errours shall 〈◊〉 his Saluation whatsoeuer motiues he may know to the 〈◊〉 But no 〈◊〉 did euer grant that a man might with a snse Conscience embrance the donatists Baptisme knowing the 〈◊〉 reasons and command of the Orthodox Church to the contrary or that a man who had so embrac't the Baptisme of Donatists might liue and dye with possibility of Saluation except he acknowledg'd his fault and repented of his 〈◊〉 You will say perhaps that as a man ought not to receiue the Donatists Baptisme thought valid in the iudgement of both parties because the Orthodox held it 〈◊〉 and forbad it vnder paire of sinne so 〈◊〉 may a Protestant who is taught by scripture or otherwise and is fully persuaded that the Roman Church and Religion containes many gross errours contrary to Gods words embrace the Roman Church and Religion though both 〈◊〉 great possibility of Saluation in the sayd Church and Religion J. answer and acknowledge that as a few 〈◊〉 or Arian is not bound to embrace the Orthodox Faith of Christians so long as he is fully persuaded that its a false and 〈◊〉 beleefe so neither is a protestant bound to embrace 〈◊〉 Religion so long as his conscience tells him that it 〈◊〉 errours and superstitions contrary to Gods word But J say withall that as a few Mahumetan and 〈◊〉 were bound to alter their iudgement concerning the pretended erroncousness and falsity of the Orthodox Fayth if sufficient motiues were propounded to him and that according to the principles of both parties the Orthodox Fayth were the safer way to Saluation so likewise a Protestant would be oblig'd to embrace our Religion if sufficient motiues to alter his present iudgement concerning our pretended errours were offer'd to him and that it could be prou'd by the ioynt principles of both Protestants and Catholiques that Catholique Religion were the safer way to Saluation Now that by the ioynt principles or doctrine both of Catholiques and Protestants our Religion or Fayth is the safer way wee haue already prou'd in our first Argument and that Protestants may haue sufficient motiues to alter and depose their present iudgement touching our pretended errours whensoeuer they will attend to them is sufficiently euidenced from hence seeing an infinite multitude of persons who haue as good naturall witts as themselues as tender consciences as themselues haue read and ponder'd the controuerted passages of scripture as much as themselues vnderstand all contrary reasons and obiections as well as themselues yet belecue with absolute certainty as diuine Truths those very points which Protestants conceiue to be errours 5. Tho other instances which he brings seeme rather to argue a weakeness in the Relatour's iudgement then in the Argument he impugns In the point of the Eucharist sayth he all sides agree in the Fayth of the Church of England that in the most Blessed Sacrament the worthie receiuer is by his Fayth made spiritually partaker of the true and reall Bodie and Bloud of Christ truly and really Your Roman Catholiques adde a manner of this his presence Transubstantiation which many deny and the Lutherans a manner of this presence Consubstantiation which more deny If this Argument be good then euen for this consent it is safer Communicating with the Church of England then with the Roman and Lutheran because all agree in this truth not in any other opinion Here are many words spent to small purpose For first can a man be sayd in any true sense to communicate rather with the Church of England then with the Roman or Lutheran only by beleeuing that where in they all agree and yet the Bishops Argument supposes this But put case by
say's the Bishop the Romanists will not endure because St. Thomas and the schoole generally agree in it that he went really no further then LIMBVS PATRVM I answer by denying his proposition There is no such agreement of parties as the Bishop pretends though the Church of Rome and the Church of England doe both agree that our Sauiour descended into hell yet they doe not both agree that by hell eyther in the Creed or in all places of Scripture where hell is mentioned is vnderstood the place of the damned Here therfore our aduersarie cleerly disputes ex falso supposito and the argument in truth may be much better retorted vpon himselfe thus Both parties agree that Christ descended into hell but both parties doe not agree that by hell is vnderstood here the place of the damned for the greater and better part of Diuines hold the contrary ergo 't is safer not to beleeue that he descended into the place of the damned then positiuely to assert it as some English Protestants doe His next instance is about the Sacraments beeing receiu'd in both kindes and as little to the purpose as the former For though wee agree that our Sauiour instituted the Sacrament that is made it himselfe and ordain'd it to be made by his Ministers in both kindes yet wee neither agree that he instituted with intention or gaue any command that it should be always receiu'd in both kindes by all the Faythfull nor doe wee grant possibility of Saluation to any that out of priuate Hereticall persuasion holds it ought to be receiu'd by all or out of contempt of the Churches order to the contrary doe receiue it in both kindes Our Sauiour gaue it in one kinde only to the two Disciples at Emmaus Lucae 24. as both St. Austin St. Chrysostome St. Hierome Theophylact and others of the Ancients witness whose example the Church following alwayes allowed the vse and manner of receiuing this Sacrament free as to the Faythfull viz. eyther to receiue it in both kindes if their deuotion inclin'd them thereto or only in one in case they desired no more till of later times the custome of receiuing it in forme of bread only growing more generall and inconueniences of receiuing it in both kindes multiplying the Council of Constance totally abrogated the manner of receiuing it in forme of wine and inioyn'd what is now in vse Whence likewise it appeares 't was not iniuriously as the Bishop pretends but iustly requir'd of the Bohemians not to condemne the practice of the Church for receiuing in one kinde when she dispensed with them to receiue in both To what he obiects against the doctrine of concomitancy inuented as he sayes by St. Thomas of Aquin and contrary to truth for that the Eucharist is a Saerament of Bloud shed and powred forth and not of Bloud contained in the Body I answer that howeuer the term it selfe might perhaps be first vsed by the Angelicall Doctour yet the thing thereby signify'd was always the constant doctrine of the Catholique Church which euer taught that by Consecration vnder each species the entire Sacrament or whole Christ was putt and therfore vnder each of them as well the Body as the Bloud and as well the Bloud as the Body was contain'd notwithstanding it be certaine that the precise words in the Consecration of bread express noe more then Christs Body nor those vsed in the Consecration of the chalice any more then Christs Bloud Wherfore to shew what is in the Sacrament by force of the precise words of Consecration and what by vertue of naturall connexion or vnion Diuines commonly make vse of this distinction ex vi verborum and per Concomitantiam Ex vi verborum or by vertue of the precise words of Consecration Christs Body only is vnder the forme of bread and his Bloud only vnder the forme of wine but per Concomitantiam by reason of naturall connexion or vnion wherby the parts of Christs Humanity are neuer to be diuided one from an other the Bloud is vnder the forme of bread also and his Body vnder the forme of wine and his foule and diuinity or Godhead vnder both And this the Bishop must grant if he hold the reall presence except he would haue vs thinke that Christ is dead in the Sacrament contrary to St. Paul who plainly tolls vs Rom. 6. 9. He dyes no more As for the Priest that consecrates there is a double necessity for him to receiue vnder both kindes The first is gathered from Christs words spoken to his Apostles at the institution of this Sacrament and interpreted to vs by the vniuersall doctrine and practice of the Church The second grounded vpon the nature of the thing which is not only a Sacrament to be distributed amonge the Faythfull but a true proper and perfect Sacrifice representing that vpon the Cross where not only Christs Body was Crucifyed but also his Bloud was shed for vs. And therfore the Priest who offers this Sacrifice of the Altar must not only consecrate in both kindes but receiue in both kindes to compleate the sacrifice His third instance is about the Commemoratiue Sacrifice in the Eucharist wherein he pretends that they and wee agree But this is false speaking in the Protestants sense or of such a Commemoratiue Sacrifice as excludes that which is reall and proper Where did Catholiques euer agree with Protestants that it was not 〈◊〉 sin in them to deny the true reall and propitiatory Sacrifice of the Eucharist or that they might be saued acknowledging only such a Commemoratiue Sacrifice in the Eucharist as they doe Lett one only Author of the Roman Church be named who teaches this or that bread broken and wine powred out vnderstanding naturall and substantiall bread and wine as the Bishop must doe according to Protestant principles were in true and proper sense a Commemoratiue Sacrifice amongst Christians For this were to say in effect that Christians vnder the Gospell did really Sacrifice to God naturall bread and wine and therby adde another Sacrifice to that of Christs Body which were a very gross errour In his fourth about the intention of the Priest in Baptisme he lapses againe For what wee agree with Protestants in wee stand to as most safe to be done in order to Saluation Now this is only in the present case that due matter and forme must necessarily be vsed for the validity of Baptisme Doe any of vs or can any man deny but it is safer in order to Saluation to vse due matter and forme in the Sacrament of Baptisme then not to vse them The Bishop indeed would gather from hence that wee must also account due matter and forme sufficient without intention But this is more then the rule obliges vs to doe The rule certainly bindes A. C. to no more then to acknowledge the thing wherein differing parties agree to be saser then the contrary or negatiue of it which wee doe
Rome or after He was Pastour of the vniuersall Church before he settled his seate at Rome and the Brittish Christians if any such were before that time might very well at least for ought the Bishop shew's to the contrary be instructed by their preachers to beleeue and acknowledge him for such CHAP. 24. The conclusion of the point touching the Saluation of Roman Catholiques and the Roman Fayth prou'd to be the same now that it euer was ARGVMENT 1. All Catholiques in possibility of Saluation and all Protestant teachers excluded by the Bishops own grounds 2. No Church different in doctrine from the Roman can be shew'n to haue held all Fundamentall points in all Ages 3. The Bishops confident pretense to Saluation vpon the account of his Fayth rather presumptuous then well grounded 4. His pretending to beleeue as the Primitiue Church and fowre first Generall Councils beleeu'd disprou'd by instance 5. Christs descent into LIMBVS PATRVM the doctrine and worshiping of Images the publique allowed practice of the Primitiue Church 6. A. C ' Interrogatories defended 7. Protestants haue not the same Bible with Catholiques in any true sense 8. The index expurgatorius not deuis'd by vs to corrupt the Fathers 9. Noe disagreement amongst Catholiques in points defined by the Church 10. Catholiques haue infallible Fayth of what they beleeue eyther explicitely or implicitely but Protestants none at all that is infallible 1. THe Controuersie goes on touching Roman-Catholiques Saluation The Bishop hauing first yeelded absolutely that the Lady might be saued in the Roman Fayth nettled a little as it seems by Mr. Fishers bidding her marke that returns smartly vpon him in these words she may be better saued in it then you and bids him marke that too Well wee will not interpret this to be any restraining of his former grant touching the Ladies Saluation but only an item to his aduersarie to looke to himselfe for that in the Bishops opinion his case was not so good as the Ladies in order to Saluation But what is his reason because for sooth any man that know's so much of the truth as Mr. Fisher and others of his calling doe and yet opposes it must needs be in greater danger So that it seems learning and sufficiency according to the Bishop haue such a connexion with Protestant doctrine that it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 easie matter to haue the one and not to see the truth of the other But how false this surmize is appeares by the experience of so many learned men in the Catholique Church who are so farre from discouering errours in the Roman Church and truth in the contrary doctrine of Protestants that the more learned they are and the better they vnderstand and weigh the grounds of Controuersies betwixt the Roman Church and her aduersaries the more they are confirm'd in the Catholique doctrine Againe what likelyhood is there that by pondering the pretended reasons of Protestants for their Religion I should euer come to a right and full vnderstanding of Diuine truth's seeing it is euident that following their principles I can be certaine of nothing that belongs to Diuine Fayth For teaching as they doe that all particular men all Generall Councils and the whole Church of God may erre what assurance can they giue me that eyther their Canon of Scripture is true or that the sense of the words of Scripture by which they proue their doctrine is such as they vnderstand or that their Church which they grant to be fallible doth not erre in those points wherein they disagree from vs. What he asserts afterward by way of reason why he allowes possibility of Saluation to Roman Catholiques viz. because they are within the Church and that no man can be sayd simply to be out of the Church that is Baptized and holds the Foundation is a Paradox and may be prou'd to be false euen from his own grounds For seeing he hath often deliuer'd that by Foundation he vnderstands only such points as are Prime Radicall and Fundamentall in the Fayth necessary to be know'n and expressly beleeu'd by all Christians in order to Saluation and seeing that many Heretiques are Baptized and hold the Foundation in this sense what does he but bring into the Fold of the Church and make Members of Christs Mysticall Body most of the Heretiques that euer were and that euen while they remayne most notoriously and actually diuided from it Nor is he content with one absurdity vnless he adioyne a second There is no question sayth he but many viz. ignorant Catholiques were saued in the corrupted times of the Church when their Leaders vnless they repented before their death as 't is morally certain none of them did were lost See here a heauy doome pronounced against all the Roman Doctours in generall But what were they all lost who repented not of those pretended errours which as Pastours of the Roman-Catholique Church they taught so many yeares together How could that be were they not all euen by the Bishops own principles members of the true visible Church of Christ notwithstanding those errours by reason of their beeing Baptized and holding the Foundation If they neither lost that Fayth by which they were members of the true Church nor can be prou'd to haue taught any false doctrine against their conscience by meanes whereof they might fall from Grace with what truth or Charity could the Bishop pronounce such a sentence against them He adds that erroneous Leaders doe then only perish when they refuse to heare the Churches instruction or to vse all the meanes they can to come to the knowledge of truth But J demand if no Misleaders but such doe perish with what countenance conscience J might say could the Relatour pass his iudgement of ours in the manner he doth that they were lost Can it with any colour of equity or truth be charg'd vpon them that they refus'd the Churches instruction what visible Church was there in the whole world for so many hundred yeares together by which had they been neuer so willing they could be instructed to teach otherwise then themselues taught in their respectiue ages and what other meanes could they be bound to vse more then they did to come to the knowledge of truth Why should not our aduersarie in reason haue rather excus'd these Leaders of the Roman Fayth and Communion from Heresie and all other damnable errour then he does euen St. Cyprian himselfe and his followers seeing 't is manifest these last oppos'd and contradicted the more generall practice of the whole visible Church whereas the Roman Catholique Doctours had alwayes the vniuersall practice of the Church on their side in the points now controuerted and for which Protestants condemne them of errour The truth is the Bishop is a little intangled here Something he must say by way of threatning against Catholiques to keep his own people in awe and to fright them from becoming Catholiques but positiuely and determinately what
Protestants to note it only in a word by the way haue not the like reason to require any such thing of vs Catholiques viz. that wee should positiuely and by speciall euidence proue our Fayth to be the same with that of the Primitiue Church not that wee are vnable or vnwilling to doe this in due time and place but because beeing in full and quiet possession of our Fayth Religion Church and all things pertaining thereto by immemoriall Tradition and succession from our ancestours wee doe vpon that sole ground viz. of quiet possession iustly prescribe against our aduersaries and our plea must in all Law and equity be admitted for good till they who are our aggressours in this case doe by more pregnant and conuincing arguments disproue it and shew that our possession is not bonafidei but gain'd by force or fraude or some other wrongfull and vnallowed meanes A Gentleman that is in quiet possession of an estate receiu'd from his ancestours is not to be outed of it because an other say's and perhaps beleeues he has a better title to it neither is 〈◊〉 in possession to be forc'd to make good his title by producing his euidence but the other is bound to euict him and demonstrate that his possession is not good and to shew by speciall euidence and proofe that his own clayme is better otherwise in stead of gaining an estate he will get nothing but a checke In like manner the Lady beeing in possession of a Fayth which for many ages together had been professed by her ancestours and generally by the whole Christian Church 't is not the Bishops telling her that he beleeues the Scriptures and Creeds in the same sense the ancient Church beleeu'd them that must eyther turn her out of the Church of Rome or iustly moue her to beleeue that the Fayth of Protestants is agreeable to that of the Primitiue Church but he must make it appeare to be so by producing euident and cleere testimonies out of all or the chiefe Doctours of those ancient times otherwise his pretended beleefe of any such matter is to be accounted folly and his confidence rashness I adde how is it possible for the Bishop to make good what his answer pretends viz. that his English Protestant Fayth is the same with that of the Primitiue Church English Protestants for example beleeue the Popes power iure diuino is no more then of an other ordinary Bishop but the Primitiue Church accounted him to be the Souereign Bishop of the Church the Bishop of Bishops witness Tertullian and this long before the Canons of the Church or Imperiall Constitutions had giuen him any authority The Primitiue Church beleeu'd that the authority of the Roman and Apostolique Sea ouer all other Churches and Christians was not from men but from our Lord Jesus Christ. Witness the Epistles of St. Clement St. Anaclet St. Sixtus the first St. Pius the first St. Anicet St. Victor with diuerse other Epistles of those ancient Primitiue Popes and Martyrs of the first ages of the Church all of them cleerly testifying and asserting the souereign authority of the Bishop of Rome as he is St. Peters Successour and of the Roman Sea ouer all other Churches and Christians whatsoeuer So as euen the Centurists themselues and all other Protestants neuer so little ver'st in antiquity are forc'd to confess it They pretend indeed that these Epistles are counterfeite and not the genuine Epistles of these Popes A weake plea for beside what wee haue already sayd in derence of them 't is certain that Isidorus Hispalensis who is an Authour of aboue a thousand yeares antiquity In his collection of Ecclesiasticall Canons mentions these Epistles as owned by the Bishops of his time and professes that himselfe was specially commanded by a Synod of fowrescore Bishops to make his collection out of them as well as out of other Epistles and writings which Protestants doe not question Not to vrge that the Councill called vasense celebrated in St. Leo the firsts time mentions some of them and Rufinus himselfe others who was contemporary with St. Hierome nor yet the absolute conformity in point of doctrine and style that there is betwixt those Primitiue Epistles and those of succeeding Popes in the most flourishing ages of the Church viz. Iulius the first Pope Damasus Syricius Innocentius Leo and others which euen Protestants themselues neyther doe nor can pretend to be forged but only say that the Popes of those times were arrogant men and began to take too much vpon them The Primitiue Church beleeu'd the roote and originall of Heresies to be because the whole Fraternity of Christians did not according to Gods commandement acknowledge ONE PRIEST AND ONE JUDGE for the time beeing Vicar of Christ in the Church The Primitiue Church professed that for what concerned the correction and consolation of the Faythfull to witt in matter of Religion and Fayth the Roman and Apostolique Sea was the bond and mother of all Churches Witness St. Athanasius and the Bishops of Egypt with him in their Epistle to Pope Marcus that the forme and pattern of that Church was to be followed in all things witness St. Ambrose and the whole Council of Arles in their Epistle and petition to Pope Julius The Primitiue Church accounted them all Scismatiques and sinners 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that sett vp an other Chaire against that one Chaire of St. Peter in the Roman Church Witness optatus Mileuitanus that the Roman Church was that sealed Fountuine and Garden inclosed to which all must repaire for the waters of life that she is the Rock vpon which the Church is built that to be out of her Communion was to be an Alien from the houshold of God to be out of the Church to be as a profane or vncleane person who might not come into the Campe or Congregation of Israel in briefe it was to belong not to Christ but to Antichrist witness St. Hierome The Bishops of the Primitiue Church beeing at any time persecuted and uniustly eiected out of their Seas from all parts and Prouinces of Christendome had recourse to the Pope and Sea of Rome as to their proper and lawfull Judge for iustice and reliefe and were likewise by him righted and for the most part effectually restor'd to their Seas againe Witness the examples already alledged of St. Athanasius and his fellow Bishops eiected by the Arians also of St. Chrysostome The odoret and diuerse others Lastly not to insist vpon many other particular Acknowledgements of the Popes authority already mention'd and prou'd in this treatise the Primitiue Church beleeu'd that the Principality of the Apostolique Sea had always flourish'tin in the Roman Church and that by reason there of the Pope had power both to iudge in matters of Fayth and also finally to decermin the causes of all Bishops whatsoeuer Witness St. Austin the Councils
of sardica Ephesus Chalcedon with the Emperour Valentinian himselfe in his Epistle to Theodosius 〈◊〉 amonge the preambulatory Epistles of the Council of 〈◊〉 Here you see a Generall consent of the Fathers of the Primitiue Church for belocning the so much contested Power and Principality of St. Peter and his Successours ouer the whole Church Doe the Bishop and his English Protestant Church beleeue this Doe they interpret Scripture and the Creeds in this sense Againe Protestants deny that there is a Purgatory or that the soules of the faythfull departed doe eyther need or can receiue any kinde of help or benefitt any kinde of releefe case of paine or other consolation from the faythfull liuing Yet it was the generall beleefe of the ancient Primitiue Church that they could and did many of them receiue help and benefitt after their departure from the faythfull Liuing namely by the Oblation or Sacrifice of the Holy Eucharist by the prayers alms-deeds and other offices of Christian pietie that were done for them grounding this their beleefe both vpon Tradition and seuerall texts of Scripture as wee shall make further to appeare in the following chapter where this point is particularly to be treated How therfore could the Bishop or how can Protestants pretend that their Fayth is agreeable to the Primitiue Church and that they interpret Scripture in the sense of that Church 5. But the Relatour if he cannot make good his own cause at least he endeauours to shew that wee Romanists doe not beleeue Scripture and the Creeds in all points according to that sense in which the Primitiue Church vnderstood them The Primitiue Church sayth he neuer interpreted the descent of Christ into Hell to be no lower then LIMBVS PATRVM But how will it be made to appeare that the Primitiue Church interpreted Christs descent to be as low as the place where the reprobate are tormented Because it is sayd in the Creeds that Christ descended into Hell must wee needs vnderstand that he descended euen to the place of reprobate and damned soules Did Iacob meane that place of punishment when expressing his griefe for the supposed death of his sonne Ioseph Genes 37. 35. he sayd I will goe down to my sonne mourning into Hell Doth not Caluin himselfe grant in effect what our Church vnderstands by Limbus Patrum when he sayth Let no body wonder that the holy Fathers who expected Christs redemption were shut vp in prison Doth not St. Irenaeus that ancient father affirme that in those three dayes and nights in which Christ was dead he remayned with the Patriarchs who could not be held to be amonge the damned Doth he not likewise teach that our Sauiour desoended to them that are vnder the earth that he might make know'n his coming and acquaint them with the remission of sinnes giuen to all those that beleeue in him Doth not Origen plainly auouch that Christ deliuered from the place into which he descended our first Father Adam whome none will auerre to haue been amonge the damned and doth he not vnderstand those words of Christ to the good theefe Luc. 23. hodie mecum eris in Paradiso this day shalt thou be with me in Paradise to haue been verifyed also of all those to whome Christ descended Doth not Eusebius 〈◊〉 say that the soule of Christ hauing recommended it selfe to the Eternall Father left the body and descending into Hell deliuer'd from thence the Fathers In a word doth not St. Hierome by Hell vnderstand Limbus-Patrum when he sayth that before Christ Abraham was apud Inferos in Hell but after Christ euen the thiefe is in Paradise Why therfore should the Bishop so peremptorily deny that by Hell into which Christ descended none of the ancient fathers did vnderstand Limbus Patrum But he proceeds The Primitiue Church sayth he did not acknowledge a Purgatory in a side part of Hell But it did acknowledge a Purgatory which the Bishop denies Let Protestants but grant there is a Purgatory and the Church of Rome will not binde them to place it in a side part of Hell this beeing noe article of our beleefe The Primitiue Church says the Bishop did not interpret away halfe the Sacrament from Christs institution neither did it euer interpret Christs institution to be such as did oblige all Christians vnder paine of sin to receiue it in both kindes as wee haue already prou'd The Primitiue Church did not make the Priests intention to be of the essence of the Sacrament etc. very true neither doth our Church make it to be so but it was Christ himselfe that soe ordain'd it as wee haue also shew'n The Primitiue Church beleeu'd no worship to be due to Jmages But how will it be prou'd they beleeu'd it to be sinne and vnlawfull to worship them for their Prototypes sake Doth not Lactantius in the Primitiue Church write thus in his Poem de Passione addressing his speech to a Christian as then entring into the Church Flecte genu lignumque Crucis VENERABILEADORA Doth not St. Basil. Epi st 53. in Iulian. reported in the second Council of Nice Action 2. profess that he publiquely adored Jmages and that the honour done to them redounds to the persons whome they represent Doth not St. Ambrose praise the Empress St. Helena for setting the Cross vpon the head or crown of Kings that it might be adored in them and doth not St. Hierome report of her that hauing at Hierusalem happily found the Cross vpon which our Sauiour suffered she adored it as if she had euen then seen our Lord hanging vpon it Doth not St. Chrysostome likewise exhort Christians to come with feare and deuotion to worship the Cross vpon the aniuersary or yearly holy * day on which they were then wont solemnly to performe that duty as Roman Catholique generally now doe vpon Goodfryday Doth not Paulinus Bishop of Nola mention the like custome in Jtaly and Iustinian the Emperour style the Cross in that very regard adorandam verè honorandam Crucem To conclude omitting diuerse other pregnant instances of the perpetuall vse and veneration also of sacred Images amonge Christians related by Eusebius Historia Tripartita Nicephorus and others if the Primitiue Church acknowledged no worship to be due to Images how could the Generall Council according to the latin translation of it style them venerabiles and profess to giue adoration to them MENTE SERMONE SENSV both in minde body and words Yea how could St. Gregory say non quasi ante Diuinitatem ante illas prosternimur confessing prosternimur that Christians did vse to bow or prostrate their bodies before them but not as vnto the Deity it selfe or as attributing Diuinity to them But aboue all how could the second Council of Nice an assembly of Bishops for number exceeding the first it selfe so much celebrated by Christians and conuen'd from all parts and
Prouinces of Christendome so publiquely auouch it to haue been a Tradition of the Apostles to worship Images if it had not been a thing confessedly practis'd amonge Christians euer since the Apostles times and with their knowledge and allowance Is it credible that so many Catholique and Orthodox Bishops should conspire to deceiue the world with such a lowde vntruth if it had been otherwise As for Transubstantiation which is an other point the Relatour pretends the Primitiue Church did not beleeue wee haue already shew'n that what is signifyed by the word to witt a true and reall change of the substance of bread into Christs body was cleerly held and taught by diuerse ancient Fathers of the Primitiue Church His bare saying 't is a scandall to both Iew and Gentile and the Church of God signifies but little Christ crucifyed was a scandall both to Iew and Gentile but yet a true obiect of our Fayth nor are they the Church or any part of the true Church that are scandaliz'd at it but Infidells and Heretiques who will be scandaliz'd at any thing that suites not with their own fancies As little can he inferre against vs from the difficulty which Catholique Diuines haue to explicate Transubstantiation Js not the Mystery of the B. Trinity in the Bishops own opinion as inexplicable and yet firmly to be beleeu'd why then must Transubstantiation be reiected or disbeleeu'd meerly vpon that ground or because 't is hard to be explicated Neither was it Transubstantiation precisely which bred that pretended scandall in Auerroes but the Reall Presence as his words shew cited by the Bishop Yet the Relatour himselfe and his master Caluin too sometimes make profession to beleeue the Reall Presence After so many vnaduised assertions our aduersarie falls at last to quibble vpon those words of A. C. Roman Catholiques cannot be prou'd to depart from the Foundation so farre as Protestants telling vs 't is a confession that Romanists may be prou'd to depart from the Foundation though not so much or so farre as Protestants doe A doughty inference I promise you But what gaines he by it Doth not the Bishop himselfe num 1. of this very Paragraph vse the like speech of vs when he sayth you of Rome haue gone further from the Foundation of this one sauing Fayth then can euer be proued wee of the Church of England haue done If this must not be accounted a Confession that the Church of England hath departed from the Foundation why must that of A. C. be see interpreted as the Bishop will haue it what euer explication be giuen to the Bishops words will serue A. C. as well whose meaning only was that there cannot be brought any arguments to proue our Churches departing from the Foundation but more and better may be brought to proue that Protestants doe likewise depart from it in more and greater points It is not to grant that the arguments which Protestants bring to proue our departing from the Fonndation are solid and conuincing or doe really proue that for which they are brought This the Relatour is only willing to suppose for himselfe and to insinuate which A. C. absolutely denyes And as the Bishop had noe reason to inferre any such Confession cut of A. 〈◊〉 words so had he as little reason to make such a confident demand in behalfe of his Church of England Let A. C. instance if he can in any one point wherein she hath departed from the Foundation etc. For that was already done to his hand A. C. had already giuen him this very errour for instance viz. the Church of Englands denying infallible authority to lawfull Generall Councils this beeing in effect to deny infallibility to the whole Church and by consequence to subuert the ground of all infallible beleefe in any articles or points of Fayth whatsoeuer Nor does it help him to say there 's a greate deale of difference betwixt a Generall Council and the whole body of the Catholique Church For what euer difference may be in other respects in this viz. of infallible teaching what is true Christian Fayth and infallible beleeuing what is so taught there is no difference betwixt the Catholique Church and a Generall Councill For if such a Council may erre the Church hath noe infallible meanes to rectifie that errour or sufficiently to propose any other point of Catholique doctrine to be infallibly beleeu'd by Christians His allegation of the second Council of Ephesus for a Generall or oecumenicall Council shewes nothing but what a desperate cause the Bishop maintaines That which was neuer styled or esteem'd by Catholique antiquity but Praedatoria Synodus and Latrocinium not Concilium Ephesinum a den of Robbers and Free-booters a Conuention of the most turbulent and seditrous Heretiques that euer troubled or dishonoured the Church by their vnlawfull actings where nothing but secular violence rage and cruelty bore sway euen to bloud-shed and murther of the B. Prelate St. Flauianus Bishop of Constantinople this his Lordship brings for an example of a Generall Councils erring Very worthily indeed lett his friends make their benefitt of it Jn the meane time they may know that as on the one side wee readily confess it very necessary the Church should haue remedy against such Councils as this so on the other side wee auerre that the infallibility of Generall Councils truly and rightly so called is such a Foundation of the Roman that is the Christian Catholique Fayth that without it wee know not what can be nor has the Bishop as yet shew'n how any thing can be certaine in the Fayth 6. A. C. after this endeauours by interrogatories to draw from his Aduersarie the confession of truth in answer whereto seeing the Bishop repeats much matter already consuted especially in the 7th and 8th Chapters of this treatise it will oblige vs to avoyd tediousness to be more briefe in our replie A. 〈◊〉 first Querie is how Protestants admitting noe insallible rule of Fayth but Scripture only can be infallibly sure that they beleeue the same entire Scripture Creed and fowre first Generall Councils in the same incorrupted sense in which the Primitiue Church beleeu'd them The Relatour in answer to him tells vs that he beleeues Scripture 1. by Tradition 2. by other motiues of Credibilliy 3. by the Light of Scripture it selfe But first this is not to make a direct answer to the question which is not whether Scripture can be any way beleeu'd or no standing to the Bishops principles but whether and how he can be infallibly sure of what he does beleeue concerning it Secondly 't is vndenyable in the common principles of all Protestants and prou'd already that the two first of these viz. Tradition and the motiues of Credibility can be no ground to Protestants of infallible Fayth or assurance concerning Scripture and for the third viz. Light of Scripture it selfe it is not only petitio principij a begging of the
so vsed as here it is but that Protestants as well as wee must be supposed good Catholiques J answer 't is cleere enough A. C. mean't only this that Protestants in some things beleeue the same truth with other people who are good Catholiques which is very true but farre from implying that confession which the Bishop would inferre from him Howeuer I thinke not the matter worth standing vpon The Bishop himselfe acknowledges A. C. intended 〈◊〉 to call them Catholiques and if vnawares some thing slipt from his pen whereby he might seeme to call them so what matter is it seeing 't is incident euen to the best Authours sometimes to lett fall an improper expression 5. To as little purpose is it for him to tell vs that next to the infallible Authority of Gods word Protestants are guided by the Church For as wee sayd before so farre as they please they are guided by the Church and where they chinke good they leaue her Wee entreate our Adversanes to tell vs what is this but to follow their own fancy and the fallible Authority of humane deductions in beleeuing matters of Fayth both which the Bishop doth so expressly disclayme in this place To what A. C. adds that by the Church of God he vnderstands here men infallibly assisted by the spirit of God in lawfully-called continued and confirmed Generall Councils the Relatour answers according to his wonted dialect that he makes no doubt the whole Church of God is infallibly assisted by the spirit of God so that it cannot by any errour fall away totally from Christ the Foundation The whole Church cannot doe thus Surely his kindeness is great and the Catholique Church is much obliged to him for allowing her such a large prerogatiue and portion of infallibility as that of necessity some one person or other must still be sound in the Church beleeuing all the Articles of the Creed or if that be too much at least all Fundamentall points in Protestant sense For so longe as but two or three persons hold all such points it will be true that the whole Church is not by any errour totally sallen away from Christ the Foundation All the lawfull Pastcurs of the Church may in the Bishops opinion erre euery man of them and fall away euen from Christ the Foundation yea draw all their people to Hell with them without any preiudice to the promises which Christ made to his Church if but two or three poore soules be still found whome God preserues from such errour as our Aduersaries call Fundamentall All is well the gates of Hell doe not prevaile ouer Christs Church though euery particular Christian saue only some few in an age perish by Heresie the holy Ghost doth not cease to teach the Church all necessary truth notwithstanding that in all ages and times of the Church he suffers such an vniuersall deluge of all damning and Soule-destroying errours as this to ouerspread the whole face of Christendome 6. This is the infallibility our Aduersary grants the whole But A. Cs. words concerning the holy Ghosts assistance in lawfully-called continued and confirmed Generall Councils oblige the Bishop some what further to declare himselfe in that point wherein though wee sufficiently know his minde already yet it shall not be amiss to heare him speake He vtterly denies therfore and that twice ouer for failing that Generall Councils be they neuer so lawfully called continued and confirmed haue any infallible assistance but may erre in their determinations of Fayth Whether they can or no hath been already sufficiently handled and the Relatours assertion confuted so that there is noe necessitie of repeating what hath been sayd All that I shall desire of the Reader here is that from this and the former passage of the Bishop he would take a right measure of his iudgement and of the iudgement of all his followers in this maine point concerning the Churches Authority and to reflect how much they doe in reality attribute to it They are oftentimes heard indeed to speake faire words and to profess great respect to the Church and to Councils especially such as be Generall and oecumenicall pretending at least to refuse none but for some manifest defect or faultiness as that they were not truly or fully Generall or did not obserue legall and warrantable proceeding in their debates etc. But lett them giue neuer such goodly words lett them counterfeite Iacobs voyce neuer so much here 's the touch-stone of their iudgement and inward sense whatsoeuer they say this they all hold Generall Councils how lawfullysoeuer and how lawfully and warrantably soeuer proceeding haue no infallible assistance from God but may erre and that vniuersally too for so he meanes as wee haue already proued that is in all matters and points whatsoeuer Fundamentall or Not-Fundamentall But you will replie the Bishop grants infallibility to a Generall Council to witt de post facto as his words are after 't is ended and admitted by the whole Church I answer this is to giue as much infallibility to a Generall Council as is due to the meanest Society or Company of Christians that is For while they iudge that to be an Article of Christian Fayth which is so indeed and receiu'd for such by the whole Church they are euery one of them in this sense infallible and can noe more be deceiu'd or deceiue others in that particular iudgement then a Generall Council or then the thing that is true in it felfe and also found to be true by the whole Church can be false In this indeed the Relatour is iust as liberall now to a Generall Council as he was formerly to the whole Church in granting it not to erre while it erres not The truth is he vainly trifles in the whole business and dallyes with the Reader by obtruding vpon him a Grammaticall or at best but a Logicall notion or sense of the word infallible in stead of the Theologicall For how J pray or in what sense is a Generall Councill acknowledg'd by the Relatour to be infallible euen de post facto after t is ended and as he will haue it confirm'd by the Churches acceptance Certainly if you marke it no otherwise then euery true Proposition is or may be sayd to be infallible that is hipothetically and vpon supposition only For surely no true Proposition quâ talis or soe farre as t is suppos'd or know'n to be true though but by some one person can deceiue any man or possibly be false Jn this sense 't is a know'n maxime in Logique Quicquid est quando est necesse est esse Euery thing that is has an hypotheticall necessity and infallibility of beeing since it cannot but be so long as it is And is it not thinke you a worthy prerogatiue of the Church to be thus infallible in her definitions Does not the Bishop assigne a very worthie and fitt meanes to apply diuine Reuelation to vs in order to the
how happen'd it that St. Austin and the Church of his time could not see both the one and the other J must not omitt the Authorities of St. Cyrill of Hierusalem and St. Iobn Chrysostome though the Bishop does in his answer the first of which giues testimony to the doctrine of Purgatory in these words Wee pray sayth he for those amongst vs who are departed this life beleeuing that it is GREAT HELP TO THEIR SOVLES for whome the Oblation of his holy and dreadfull Sacrifice vpon the Altar is offered The second speaks thus Jt is not in vaine that wee make Oblations for the dead it is not in vaine that wee pray and giue Alms for them doubt not but there comes much good of it and more towards the end lett vs consider sayth he how great consolations wee may cause to the dead by these our teares and giuing of Alms for them and by our prayers Againe If thy dead Brother be departed with any sinne that is with sin not so fully repented for and not so fully expiated by works of Pennance as it ought and as wee haue often declar'd wee ought to the vtmost of our power to GIVE HIM SVCCOVR by our prayers supplications and teares and by procuring Oblations or Masses for him For it is not in vaine that in the diuine Mysteries wee remember the faythfull departed Wee doe it to the end they may receiue CONSOLATION and what wee doe in this kinde is not any superstitious inuention of man as the Relatours 139. Articles say it is but the Ordination of the Holy Ghost 13. What can be sayd more then this to the full assertion of our Catholique beleefe in this point Especially seeing out Aduersary himselfe grants concerning St. Gregory and all the fathers after his time that they vndoubtedly held Purgatory so that for a thousand yeares and more he confesses Purgatory was the generall Fayth of Christians Jt would be considered by indifferent men whether it be not sarre more likely to haue been always the Fayth of Christians and that our fore-fathers were in truth frighted into the beleefe of it as the Bishop will needs speake by noe other meanes then they were frighted into the beleefe of Hell that is by the Tradition of the Catholique Church and the preaching of their lawfull Pastours conformably thereto I conclude therfore that Purgatory can be noe other then a doctrine of Apostolicall Tradition if St. Austins Rule be good lib. 4. de Baptism cap. 24. which teacheth that wee iustly hold all things of this nature proceed from the Apostles if they be taught by the whole Church and wee finde noe beginning or first Institution of them in Councils Nationall Prouinciall or oecumenicall Now wee challenge our Aduersaries to shew when or in what age the doctrine of Purgatory first began to be taught or which is all one when the doctrine of Praying for the dead that their sins might be remitted to them that they might finde mercy and milder chastisement from God refreshment ease of their paines help and reast in our Lord etc. first began to be practis'd in the Catholique Church Neither doth Bellarmins prouing it from Scripture hinder the point from beeing a Tradition of the Apostles For does not St. Austin with Bellarmin and all diuines not excepting euen Protestants themselues acknowledge the Baptisme of infants and doctrine of Originall sinne and diuerse other points to proceed from Apostolicall Tradition and yet endeauour to proue them also from Scripture much less does the Cardinall contradict himselfe as our Aduersary likewise pretends he doth by endeaucuring on the one side to proue Purgatory by nineteene places of Scripture and yet auerring on the other that wee finde no beginning of this doctrine For first his assertion that wee finde noe beginning of this doctrine imports noe more then that noe first Authour of the doctrine of Purgatorie could be found since the Apostles that beeing fully sufficient to his purpose which was only to shew that the beleefe of Purgatory was an Apostolicall Tradition And yet secondly supposing his speech absolute that no beginning at all could be found of this doctrine in any age eyther since the time of the Apostles or before yet should he not contradict himselfe by thinking or saying it might be prou'd by Scripture Who doubts but the doctrine of soules immortality is effectually prou'd out of the Gospell and the bodies resurrection out of St. Pauls first Epistle to the Corinthians chap. 15 Yet will any man pretend that the first beginning of those doctrines is found in the Gospell or in St. Pauls Epistles was not the immortality of the soule and resurrection of the body beleeu'd by the faythfull before Christs Incarnation So that in truth the Relatour committs the grand absurdity himselfe in arguing as he doth that if Bellarmin did finde it in Scripture to witt the doctrine of Purgatory then he is false in saying wee finde noe beginning of it Certainly to finde a thing to be taught and to finde the first beginning of its beeing taught is not all one in any sober mans iudgement except it be the Relatours What he adds touching Alphonsus a Castro's telling vs the mention of Purgatory in ancient writers is almost none at all and that it is not beleeu'd by the Grecians to this very day is in part contrary to himselfe who hath already confess 't that from St. Gregories time all the Fathers taught and all Christians generally beleeu'd Purgatory and misunderstood in the whole For certainly 't is only of the name Purgatory and quality of the fire there that a Castro and some others speake when they affirme that few of the ancients beleeu'd Purgatory it beeing impossible to conceiue they could be ignorant of what is both generally taught by the Fathers and was vnanimously without the least difference or dispute concluded both by Greeks and Latins in the Councill of Florence touching the thing that is the penall state of some Faythfull soules departed after this life The Bishop might as well haue told vs that those Authours pronounce the same touching the Holy Ghosts proceeding from the Father and the Sonne and of some other points namely that there is little mention of them in the ancient Fathers to witt express and in terminis but yet without doubt suppose those ancient and Orthodox Pastours of the Church did euer teach the sayd points as to the substance of doctrine and sense His Lordships assigning Origen to be the first Authour of the doctrine of Purgatorie is a manifest falsity already disprou'd by the testimonies of Tertullian and St. Cyprian ancienter then he likewise by St. Denys the Areopagite contempory with the Apostles to whom wee may adde St. Clement an Authour of the same age cited by Bellarmin in both which such prayer for the dead as doth necessarily inferre Purgatory is auouch'd to be a Tradition receiu'd from the Apostles Tertullian
if neither Generall Councils nor any man in the world be of infallible creditt who sees it not to follow there can be noe infallible creditt amonge men noe not in the whole Church euen in points Fundamentall For seeing noe testimony can be of infallible creditt except it be know'n and that it is impossible for any man certainly to know eyther who those are that make vp the whole Church in the Bishops sense or that they doe all of them beleeue and testifie such a point of doctrine to be Fundamentall and absolutely necessary to saluation how is it possible for the whole Church in that sense to be of infallible creditt or to giue infallible certainty to any points whatsoeuer whether Fundamentall or not Fundamentall whether absolutely or not-absolutely necessary to Saluation To his Aduersaries demand why a Generall Councill if it may erre in defining one diuine truth may not erre in defining an other and so in all the Relatour answers by way of Confession that it may erre euen in all to witt of like nature vsing this limited manner of speech in all of like nature on purpose to auoyd inconueniencies and that he might vpon occasion take the aduantage of his wonted distinction between Fundamentall points For so presently as it were by way of anticipation he tells the Reader that of things not absolutely necessary to Sabuation or not-Fundamentall there can be noe necessity of infallible certaintie in the whole Church much less in a Generall Councill and consequently quently 't is noe matter with him though a Generall Councill be suppos'd lyable to errour in all such points as well as in any one But it sufficeth that wee haue already shew'n the contrary both for Church and Councill namely that in many cases it may be absolutely necessary for the Church to haue infallible certaintle of points in their owne nature not absolutely necessary to saluation or which is all one to haue such points when brought into controuersie amongst Christians infallibly defined by a Generall Councill so as wee need not trouble the Reader here with repetitions Nor could it serue his turn or iustify his assertion from beeing in the highest degree iniurious and derogatory to the honour and authority of Generall Councills though it were otherwise that is though wee had not already prou'd a necessity of infalliblydefining by Generall Councills all controuerted points of Religion whatsoeuer whether absolutely or not-absolutely necessary to Saluation For 't is certaine enough the Relatour holds that Generall Councills may possibly erre euen in points that are absolutely necessary to Saluation or Fundamentall as wee haue heretofore obseru'd though he declines somewhat the open profession of such a doctrine But this suppos'd lett his adherents tell vs what does his maxime if in one possibly in all proclaime but that a Generall Councill may not only fall into errour in defining some one or other point of Christian Fayth but euen totally Apostatize and define against Christianity it selfe A proposition sufficiently confuted by its own apparent impiety and which may iustly serue for a second instance of our Aduersaries sincerity when they profess fo much esteem and reuerence towards Generall Councills 4. Wee doe not say that Christ our Sauiour left infallibility in his Church to satisfie eyther contentious or curious or presumptuous spirits as the Bishop would seeme to impose vpon vs for 't is euident enough by the experience the world hath of the seuerall sects and Heresies of Protestants that such kinde of people will be satisfy'd with nothing but the full swing of their own obstinate and erroneous phansies Nor will wee Catholiques euer desert the confession and defence of it because such people will not be satisfy'd But wee tell them Christ left that legacy to his Church for these ends viz. to guide the humble and sober-minded securely and certainly in the right way of Saluation he left it also to curbe the contentious to restraine the curious and to giue sufficient checke to such presumptuous spirits as should dare in matters of such high and difficult nature as the truths and Mysteries of Religion are to be wise in their own eyes and to preferre their priuate phansies before the publique and generall iudgement of the Church and their own lawfull Ecclesiasticall superious none of all which ends could be effectually attain'd or duly prouided for without the sayd infallibility which therfore for the Relatour or any other out of priuate opinion to goe aboute to take away from the Church is without doubt both intolerable presumption and errour especially doing it vpon no better grounds and pretense of reason then he layes down here viz. because the Foundation that is in his sense all Fundamentall and absolutely-necessary doctrine is so strongly and plainly layd down in Scripture and the Creed Stongly and plainly layd down does he say Surely the Bishop when he wrote this thought little of those swarms of Arian and Socinian Heretiques who deny such points of Fayth as he himselfe grants to be Fundamentall To say those points are so strongly or plainly deliuer'd in Scripture c. as not to require some other infallible authority beside Scripture to support and make good our beleefe of them must needs argue a very strong preiudice to any man that duly considers how those controuersies are handled betwixt the Orthodox and them and how equally those Heretiques bandy texts with their Aduersaries both wayes that is to say as well vpon the offensiue as defensiue part as well by opposing the truth with the pretense and allegation of many Scripture-texts as by answering and euading what euer is by their Aduersaries argued out of Scripture for it or against them So as indeed a modest man to borrow a little of his Lordships own style may iustly wonder whither the Bishop would haue vs to runne for infallible certainty in those points if not to Generall Councill which yet he will by noe meanes allow vs to doe 5. But A. C. sayes the Bishop hath more questions to aske His next is how wee can according to ordinary course be infallibly assur'd that a Council erres in one and not in an other point when she equally defines both by one and the same authority to be diuine truths This may be thought a shrewd question too and the Relatour does a little discouer himselfe nettled by it in telling vs that A. C. turns Questionist here to disturb the business viz. which his Lordship had with Mr. Fisher and indeed the Church as much as he can Howeuer he answers the question by distinction thus If a Generall Councill erres sayes he eyther it erres in things absolutely necessary to Saluation or in things not necessary If in the first sort wee may be infallibly assur'd by the Scripture the Creeds the fowre first Generalls Councills and the whole Church where it erres in one and not in an other point Jf in the latter sort 't is not
certainty nor meanes of infallible certainty less in the Church for the teaehing and beleefe of any points at all euen of the most absolutely and vniuersally necessary In the close of this Paragraph he taxes those of pride who will not 〈◊〉 their private iudgements where with good conscience they may and ought Wee may easily diuine whom he meanes but are sure he could not exempt himselfe and his adherents from the sting of that censure though he endeauours it by saying 't is noe pride not to submitt to know'n and gross errouts Very good But wee aske what Sect or company of Heretiques in the world vses not this plea Doe not euen the Artans Socinians and 〈◊〉 arians themselues vrge it as earnestly against Protestants as Protestants doe against vs So that 〈◊〉 the Relatour pretended that the conuocation of English Prelates and Clergie adherent to them should 〈◊〉 Dictatours in the business of Religion ouer all Christendome beside and determin vncontroulably what is what is not to be accounted gross and dangerous errour I see not what his discourse here signifies But whereas himselfe obiects errour to three Generall Councills at once viz. those of Lateran Constance and Trent yea such errour as in his opinion gaue a greater and more vrgent cause of breaking the vnity of the Church then any pride of men wee shall not for the present taxe him with want of modesly wee only tell his followers 't is as yet only saying without prouing and they cannot but acknowledge that in point of morality 't is oftentimes very sufficient and very bonest for a man barely to deny a crime that is obiected to him but it is neuer sufficient nor euer honest barely to obiect it Beside wee haue much more reason to think that he a priuate Doctour is mistaken in his censure then that those three Generall Councils were deceiued in the matters of Fayth which they defin'd 10. His acknowledgement that it is noe worke for his pen to determin how farre the necessary points of soule-sauing Fayth extend would haue been ingenuous enough had he not made it intricate and meander-like by applying it to different persons but kept it in its absolute nature viz. what is simply necessary for all in which sense he hath treated the point all this time Now sure it the determining this maine and as I may say Cardinall difficulty be not worke for his pen neither was it of any right worke for his pen to draw vpon himselfe and his party a necessity of at least beeing call'd vpon and requir'd to doe it who counsells them contrary vnto and without the example of any Orthodox Christians to restraine the infallible Authority of the Church in determining controuersies of Religion to they know not what or to such points as they neither doe nor euer will be able certainly to know and determin For as 't is that only which brings our vnanswerable demand vpon them so till they haue answer 〈◊〉 and cleerly determin'd what those simply or absolutely necessary points are in which the Church cannot erre wee must proclayme they leaue all Christians that well consider what and vpon what grounds they beleeue vnsatisfy'd vncertaino and doubtfull how farre or in what matters they are oblig'd vnder paine of damnation to beleeue what is declar'd by the Church to be diuine truth and yet withall teach them that they neither can with true infallible Fayth nor ought nor lawfully may belecue her in all she teacheth because in much of it she cyther erres or is subiect to erre and teach them falsehood yea gross and dangerous errour in stead of diuine truth which if it be iust or reasonable in our Aduersaries to doe or tending to any thing else but to 〈◊〉 and perplex the mindes of all conseientious Christians with inextricable doubts and scruples 〈◊〉 the indifferent Reader iudge Nor can he to any purpose help himselfe here by what St. Thomas and our Authours teach concerning points precisely necessary necessitate medij For neither will the Bishop stand to that scantling as he calls it that is he will not dare to teach there are no more Fundamentall points in his sense then our Diuines teach there are points necessary necessitate medij nor is the case alike For that doctrine hath place only where inuincible ignorance excuses from further knowledge and from express beleefe whereas here both sufficient proposition and actuall knowledge of all articles defin'd by the Church is supposed so as noe Jgnorance can be pleaded in excuse of the partie that erres and yet they teach that of these articles all equally so farre as concerns the Church defin'd and propounded some may be refused but all the rest must of necessity vnder paine of damnation be beleeu'd with diuine and infallible Fayth neuertheless giuing no certaine rule to know eyther the one or the other Is not this Daedalus-like to lead men into the midst of a Labyrinth and there leaue them 11. Jn the following Paragraph the Relatour doth little else but dally with his Reader in the equiuocation of words Catholique Roman Church particular vniuersall one holy Mother-Church etc. vpon all which he makes a briefe descant at pleasure But wee answer much is sayd nothing prou'd nor so much as offer'd to be prou'd to any purpose The Church of Rome in the sense that wee maintaine and haue often declar'd is not only one but THE ONE Church of Christ. In the sense that wee maintaine she is holy all her doctrine defined all her Sacraments all her institutes are holy and tend to Holiness In the sense that wee maintaine she is Catholique or vniuersall both for extent of Communion and Integrity of doctrine with continued succession of Pastours There is no Christian Countrie in the world where there are not some that acknowledge the Popes Authority and profess the Roman Fayth Nor doth the Roman Church now teach any thing as Fayth which is contrary to what the Catholique Church hath euer taught Lastly wee haue shewed that euen in the Primitiue Church or first siue-hundred yeares after Christ the Faythfull owned subiection to the Roman Church and a necessity to communicate with her in points of Christian doctrine Wee acknowledge the Church of Hierusalem is sometimes by Antiquity styl'd a Mother-Church and the Head of all other Churches But wee say withall 't is meerly a title of honour and dignity giuen her probably for this reason viz. because the first Foundations as it were of Christian Religion were layd there by the preaching and Passion of our Sauiour and because from thencë the first sound and publication of the Gospell was made by the Apostles to all the Churches of the Gentiles It was noe title of Authority and power properly so called as it was in the Roman Church Jf our Aduersaries thinke it was let them shew what Authority or Iurisdiction Ecclesiasticall the Church or Bishop of Hierusalem exercised ouer all other Churches eyther before it was
teach that the Sea of Rome is the roote and matrix of the Catholique Church Why His reason is because that there was at this time an open Schisme at Rome two Bishops Cornelius and Nouatian two Congregations which respectiuely attended and obserued them soe that a perplexed question must needs haue diuided theyr thoughts which of these two had been the roote and matrix of the Catbolique Church I answer first supposing it had been for a while really doubtfull to St. Cyprian and those of Africke which of the two Bishops of Rome Cornelius or Nouatianus were the right and lawfull Bishop yet to those that were at Rome and vnderstood the true and certaine carriage of affaires touching their respectiue elections it was not doubtfull at Rome without question the truth concerning this mater was sufficiently known Now wee say St. Cyprians intent in the words alledged was not precisely to exhort people to adhere eyther to Cornelius or Nouatianus in particular and by name but to adhere to him they should for certaine finde by the generall report and iudgement of the Faythfull at Rome to haue been lawfully and Canonically chosen Bishop of that Church and not to ioyne themselues to him that was chosen Schismatically Secondly I answer 't is not so certain as the Relatour supposes whether at the writing of this very Epistle it were really doubtfull to St. Cyprian himselfe which of the two Cornelius or Nouatianus were the true and lawfull Bishop of Rome yea vnless the Publishers of St. Cyprians Epistles haue by mistake inuerted the order of them the contrary seemes to be cleere because by the 41. 42. 44. all precedent to this alledged by the Bishop it manifestly appeares that both St. Cyprian and his Colleagues had been already by intelligence from Rome so fully satisfy'd touching the lawfull election of Cornelius that they both denyed Communion to the Legats of Nouatian sent into Africke and also refus'd to heare their accusations against Cornelius though in regard of the Nouatian faction in Africke they thought good to send their Legats to Rome to be more paticularly inform'd of the business and did not require the people of their respectiue Prouinces publiquely to acknowledge Cornelius for Pope till they had receiu'd the report of theyr own Legats from Rome Now this suppos'd what should hinder but St. Cyprian might priuately exhort passengers to Rome not only to acknowledge the lawfull Bishop of that Church but euen Cornelius by name notwithstanding the Schisme that was by some raised against him Wherfore the Bishops following deuise viz. that St. Cyprian should require all strangers trauelling to Rome to suspend their Communion there that is to communicate neither with Cornelius nor Nouatianus till they saw how the Catholique Church would incline to approue or disapproue their respectiue elections to speake truth is but an ayery fiction it beeing by St. Cyprian and his Colleagues presum'd to be euen then sufficiently know'n and certaine at Rome which of the two was lawfully chosen Bishop otherwise to what purpose should they send their Legats out of Africke to be certainly inform'd of the truth touching that matter J adde when or how could the Catholique Church declare her iudgement in the case so authentically as to oblige all persons to acquiescence would the Bishop haue had all Christian strangers to suspend their communion both from the one and the other till a Generall Councill had determin'd the controuersie or how could a Councill possibly determine it but by and vpon such grounds as did already make it vnquestionable at Rome which of the two was the true Pope Wee acknowledge indeed with Baronius here cited By the Bishop that St. Cyprian and his Colleagues did for a while suspend their Communion from both parties which vpon this occasion they might iustly doe yet not separate from the Roman Church as the Relatour too hastily inferres For it was for a while as it were sede vacante to them in Africke till they had receiu'd sufficient information who was lawfull Bishop of that Church which as soone as euer they had obtain'd they shew'd by their practice how necessary they held it to be in Communion with him St. Cyprian then did very well to exhort all Christians that had occasion to goe to Rome to acknowledge and sticke close to the roote and matrix of the Church that is not to suffer themselues to be draw'n into Schisme or to side with the Schismatiques but Constantly to adhere to the true and lawfull Bishop of the Roman Church And as this was a proper exhortation for St. Cyprian to make so was it also a iust and sufficient Apologie for him to Cornelius as shewing that he did neither disowne the Sea Apostolique nor slight the true Bishop thereof Whereas if wee suppose him to meane only according to the Bishops exposition of his words that people should acknowledge and hold the vnity of the Catholique Church in generall but suspend their Communion both with Nouatian and Cornelius too till the Church herselfe should determin the controuersie what respect doth he shew to the Apostolique Sea and its lawfull Bishop more then he doth to an Hereticall party and the Schismatique which they followed Beside this imaginary suspension of Communion till the Catholique Church should declare her approbation or disapprouement of the sayd elections is cleerly refuted by the very Epistle which the Bishop cites wherein St. Cyprian and his Colleagues profess in esfect that they did not expect any such declaration of the Church but that vpon the first report or answer of their Legats from Rome touching the election passed letters were presently to be sent to all the Bishops of Africa to suspend their Communion noe longer but to acknowledge Cornelius the lawfully-elect Bishop of Rome and his Communion to be the vnion of the Church 2. By the way good Reader I pray obserue and iudge whether St. Cyprian doth not here sufficiently expound himselfe and shew what he meanes by those words roote and matrix of the Catholique Church when speaking of the Communion of the Pope he plainly pronounces that it is the vnity of the Church What is this but to say with vs and directly contrary to the Relatours Gloss that it is the roote and matrix of the Church For seeing the forme or at least the most formall and essentiall propertie of the Church is vnity in the profession of the true Fayth if the Popes communion be that which giues vnity to the Chnrch and tyes all together in the profession of the true Fayth as St. Cyprian here affirmes it to be sure noe man can be so vnreasonable as to thinke it deserues not to be styled the roote and matrix of the Church Not to vrge that in these very Epistles St. Cyprian blames the Schismatiques at Rome for their endeauouring to create a new Bishop there against one that was already lawfully elected and ordain'd vpon this ground
that by so doing they did as much as in them lay procure Ecclesiam alteram institui the forming of an other Church which sayth he nefas est nec licet fieri may not in any wise be attempted telling them that their preceedings herein were contra Institutionis Catholicae vnitatem contrary to that vnity in which all true Catholique Christians were instructed by the very principles of Catholique Religion to hold and maintaine that it was contra Sacramentum semel traditum diuinae dispositionis Catholicae vnitatis against that Order or Authority which God once for all appointed in his Church for the preseruation of Catholique vnity and peace amongst Christians likewise not to vrge that in other places also St. Cyprian doth in effect style the Popes chaire the Center from whence Ecclesiasticall vnity is deriued that the Primacy was therfore giuen by Christ to St. Peter that there might be ONE Church and ONE chaire and that he cannot be in the Church who deserts the Chaire of St. Peter Lastly not to vrge the confession euen of the Schismatiques themselues some of them at least voluntarily yet solemnly made when they returned to the Popes obedience wherby they profess't that as God is ONE our Lord Iesus Christ ONE whome they had lastly confessed in prison and the holy Ghost ONE so likewise in the Catholique Church there ought to be acknowledg'd by all ONE BISHOP viz. the Bishop of the Roman Church to whose obedience and Communion they then returned What are all these testimonies but so many euident conuictions and demonstrations of the Relatours huge mistaking not to say any worse when he pretends that by the roote and matrix of the Church St. Cyprian vnderstands noe more but the vnity of the Church in generall nor are they any whit infringed by what he brings out of St. Cyprians Epistle to Iubaianus written against the Nouatians who durst rebaptize Catholiques in which Epistle St. Cyprian hath these words WEE ARE THE HEAD OF BAPTISME What makes this against vs For first the Bishop himselfe acknowledges that by WEE St. Cyprian doth not vnderstand his own person or Church precisely but includes all other particular true Churches and chiefly the Roman where Nouatian himselfe was baptized The Head of Baptisme then in St. Cyprians meaning are all true Churches as they stand in due subordination and Communion vnited with the Roman and not otherwise which wee willingly grant But yet it followes not from hence as the Bishop would haue it that it is all one to be head or roote of Baptisme and to be head and roote of the Church For the whole Church as one by Communion with the Sea of Rome may properly enough be styled the head of Baptisme which signifies noe more then that the chiefe and ordinary power of baptizing is in the Catholique Church but it will neuer be proper to say the Church is the head and roote of the Church for that were to make the whole to be only a principall part which is absurd Now that St. Cyprian did hold all true Churches to be ONE by Communion with the Roman Bishop and Church is sufficiently euidenc'd by what is aboue sayd Nor can he with reason be vnderstood in any other sense when he speakes those words in the beginning of that period cited by the Bishop Nos qui Ecclesiae vnius caput et radicem tenemus etc. For as by Ecclesiae vnius it will not be denyed but he meanes the Church Catholique soe by the words caput et radicem if wee expound him with conformity to his already cited assertions wee cannot possibly vnderstand any thing else but the Bishop of Rome and his Sea the one as head ruling and commanding by Authority the other as matrix by Communion embracing and comprehending all true Christians or the whole Catholique Church on earth Beside this 't is very obseruable what the Relatour himselfe alledges and concludes out of an other Epistle of St. Cyprian viz. that St. Cyprian and the Bishops of Africke sent their Legats to Rome on purpose to bring the ` Nouatians that is the Schismaticall partie there to the vnity and Communion of the Church vniuersall but that by reason of the obstinacy and stiffness of those Schismatiques their labour was lost Now for ought appeares to the contrary by the sayd Epistle the reduction of the Nouatians to the Churches vnity whereof by the Bishops own confession St. Cyprian there speaks was nothing else but the bringing them to obedience and Communion with Cornelius the lawfull Bishop of Rome as the Relatour himselfe also intimates and consequently it must be acknowledged there is something in resisting and opposing the lawfull Bishop of Rome which hath greater contrariety to the vnity of the Church then there is in resisting and opposing any other particular Bishop And if it were otherwise why should all the Churches of Africa esteeme themselues and the whole Church soe concerned in it why should they send Bishops of their own on purpose to Rome to reduce the Schismatiques with so much diligence and care to the obedience of their lawfull Bishop what reason can be giuen of this but that they foresaw and fear'd that if a Schisme proceeded there the whole Church would in a short time come to be inuolued in it and diuided into two seuerall parties by acknowledging two heads or Roman Bishops When Nouatus sett vp Maiorinus the first Donatist Bishop at Carthage against Caecilian the lawfull Bishop and when Meletius and Paulinus had their seuerall parties at Antioch likewise when Anthimus an Eutychian Heretique was intruded into the Sea of 〈◊〉 against the Catholique Bishop thereof there was noe such thing fear'd as breaking the Generall vnity of the Church there beeing still a visible and certainly-know'n head of the Church Catholique viz. the Bishop of Rome who by his authority kept all in vnity and first or last rectify'd and composed those dissentions But here of necessity it would haue been otherwise For the breach of Ecclesiasticall vnity beeing in the very head fountaine and roote thereof would vnless preuented vnauoydably in no long time spread it selfe ouer the whole Church and thence it was that the Bishops of Africa thought it necessary with extraordinary diligence to make vp the breach there and reduce the separated parties to vnity 3. Tertullian whome the Relatour also cites makes nothing against vs. For he only affirms that all those many and great Churches founded by the Apostles are that ONE Church which is from the Apostles and that they are all FIRST or primitiue Churches and all of them APOSTOLICALL because they doe all of them allow and approue ONE VNITY that is say wee an vnity deriued from one and center'd in one who is no other but St. Peters lawfull Successor the Bishop of Rome by subordination vnto whome in Fayth and discipline as vnto the vniuersall Pastour of the Church all particular
Churches are made one and doe in effect continue one and the same Catholique Primitiue and Apostolicall Church or Churches which the Apostles first of all founded So that till our aduersaries either disproue this gloss or giue a better wee shall make no scruple to assert that in Tertullians iudgement as well as St. Cyprians Rome or the Roman Church may well be termed the roote and matrix of all other Churches because none remaine in the Catholique Church but by vnity with Rome and the Bishop thereof Nor matters it that Pamelius reckons vp diuerse Churches which he calls Originall and Mother-Churches before the Roman For as to the name Originall and Mother-Churches wee haue giuen the reason of it in the precedent chapter when wee spake of the Church of Hierusalem and for the thing viz. that he reckons Rome in the last place as if therfore the Church of Rome were to be accounted inferiour to those other wee answer his Lordship would neuer haue made this obseruation twice had he first consulted the Master of Ceremonies about it For he certainly would haue resolu'd him that in marshalling dignityes subordinate one to an other as the case was here all the particular Churches mentioned by Pamelius viz. Smyrna Philippi Corinth Ephesus beeing subordinate to Rome the Principall or Souereign is to be ranked in the last place Doth Pamelius or Tertullian himselfe acknowledge the like priuiledges and authority in regard of the whole Church to belong to those other originall and Mother-Churches which they doe to the Roman As for that irreligious Acte of the Emperour Adrian which the Bishop mentions 't is but too much imitated by Protestants For as he sett vp the Image of Jupiter in the very place where Christ suffered and as he profaned Bethlehem with erecting the Temple of Adonis as thinking to destroy Christian Religion by laying wast the place where it was first founded soe doe our Aduersaries plant all their batteries against Rome persuading themselues that if they could beate downe that chiefe fortress of the Catholique Church they should soone destroy our whole Church But as that Heathenish Emperour Adrian did soe doe these enemyes of God and true Religion they labour in vayne For the Church is inuincible the gates of Hell it selfe cannot preuaile against her and as St. Austin long since obserued all Heresies whatsoeuer doe indeed goe out of her beeing cutt off from her as vnprofitable branches from the vine But the Church herselfe always remaines in her ROOTE in own VINE in her own CHARITY viz. by remayning always vnited with the Bishop of Rome Jn the most principall and proper sense then the Roman Church and that only is both the rocke and roote of the Church-Catholique as beeing by institution and appointment of Christ principally and solely ordain'd to supplie the place and performe the office both of rocke and roote to all other Churches whatsoeuer how be it in a less principall and limited sense in reference to particulars only wee doe not deny but some other particular Church or Churches beside the Roman may sometimes be are the style that is be called rocke or roote Thus for example wee confesse St. Austin cited by the Bishop styles the Eastern Churches the roote in regard of the Africans Pars Donati non consider at se praecisant 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 RADICE Orientalium Ecclesiarum But the reason is 〈◊〉 't was eyther because the Eastern Churches were a larger and more noble part of the Church vniuersall then the Africans were or because the Africans first receiued the Gospell from them as St. Austin also testifieth in the same place and not that they were such a roote of the whole Catholique Church as Kome was or in all properties pertaining to a roote equall to Rome That 's only the Relatours voluntary supposition and mistaken inference 4. Nor will his speculation hold wherby he distinguishes the essence of the Church from its existence and makes that vnity which is an attribute of ENS to be the roote and matrix of the Church For first in true Philosophy the essence of a thing is not really 〈◊〉 from its existence Secondly because in this sense of his the Church should rather be the roote and matrix of vnity then vnity the roote and matrix of the Church for vnity as an attribute flowes from ENS and not ENS from it as like wise in naturall Philosophy all Properties flow from their subiects and not their subiects from them Thirdly what vnity does our Aduersary here speake of when he tells vs ENS and VNVM beeing and beeing one are conuertible This is Metaphysicall vnity only entitatiue vnity But is that all the vnity the Bishop acknowledges to be necessary in the Church if not why is that only mention'd here and no other Christians when they dispute and teach that the Church is one vnderstand sure a further vnity then this namely a morall vnity an vnity of minde and iudgement touching the verityes of Christian Religion and not only an vnity of nature definition and essence This therfore was 〈◊〉 to equiuocate or mistake 〈◊〉 in the business But wee pass it by as likewise wee doe the remaynder of the paragraph as beeing farc'd only with assertions without proose or with proofs against no Aduersary 5. As St. Cyprian ought to be commended for his exhorting those who crauelled to Rome to acknowledge and maintaine the ROOTE and MATRIX of the Catholique Church soe did the Jesuit well to persuade the lady to doe the same Of whose Counsell by the report of Mr. 〈◊〉 she made thus farre good vse that vpon this and the precedent conferences the rested in iudgement fully satisfy'd of the truth of the Roman Churches Fayth yet vpon frailtie and feare to offend the king she yeelded for a while to goe to Church for which she was 〈◊〉 very sorry The Relatour seems willing enough to haue 〈◊〉 all this if he had know'n how but not beeing able to doe that he contents himselfe to 〈◊〉 it as suspicious and 〈◊〉 as he can 〈◊〉 it were so or no. He 〈◊〉 not 〈◊〉 that honourable 〈◊〉 was 〈◊〉 in conscience and iudgement nor 〈◊〉 it were feare or 〈◊〉 or other 〈◊〉 that made hor yeeld to goe to Church nor how sorry she was for it nor who can testifie that sorrow The Bishop knowes none of all these particulars Well it is sufficient that others did and doe know them Howeuer he confidently tells vs the lady would more 〈◊〉 be able to answer to God for her coming to Church then for leauing the Church of England To which when A.C. takes modest exception and only tells him that he neither doth proue nor can proue it to be lawfull for one especinlly so persuaded as the lady was to goe to the Protestant Church the Bishop sharply replies there 's a 〈◊〉 deale of cunning and as much malice in this passage of A. C. But where I pray 〈◊〉 eyther the
doth not with any presumption signify that a man is a Protestant which falls out otherwise in England For here it hath always been held a conformity to and with the Protestant Religion professed in England to goe to Church and therfore not allowed by any of our Diuines who neuer giue way to the profession of false doctrine Now who is more guilty of dissimulation in Religion which the Bishop charges vpon some of our partie then the Bishop himselfe Doth he not § 35. punct 5. professedly allow possibility of Saluation to such Catholiques as doe both wittingly and knowingly associate themselues euen to the gross superstitions of the Romish Church and such as come euen neere to Idolatrie only because they beleeue the Creed and hold the Foundation what is this but to teach it lawfull at least no sinne excluding Saluation to ioyne ones selfe outwardly to a superstitious Church in a superstitious false and euen Idolatrous way of worshipping God contrary to ones knowledge and constience only for some temporall and worldly respects and consequently that men are not alwayes bound to seeme and appeare as they are but sometimes at least may haue liberty to weare a masque But certainly that which followes is a most strange and inconsequent Paradox if euer any was Jf the Religion of Protestants sayes the Bishop be a know'n false Religion then the Romanists Religion is so too For their Religion meaning Catholiques and Protestants is the same sayth he nor doe the Church of Rome and the Protestants sett vp a different Religion for the Christian Religion is the same to both but they differ in the same Religion and the difference is in certaine gross corruptions to the very endangering of Saluation which each side sayes the other is guilty of What is this but to heape absurdities one vpon an other which of all these propositions is maintainable in any true and proper sense The Religion of Catholiques and Protestants is the same The church of Rome and the Churches of Protestants sett not vp different Religions Christian Religion is the same both to Catholiques and Protestants they are of the same Religion and yet differ in it First are wee of the same Religion because wee agree in some few generall points why might he not as well haue sayd that Arians and all other Heretiques are of the same Religion with vs. by reason of their agreement with vs in some points of Fayth Secondly is Christian Religion J meane in the necessary soundness and integrity of it common both to Catholiques and Protestants what Protestant will affirm that it is and if it be not why would the Relatour trifle and abuse his Reader with such vaine and pernicious amphibologie as he here vseth in a business of so great importance Thirdly if wee Catholiques be of the same Religion with Protestants how can wee be sayd to differ from them in the same Religion as the Relatour here expressly sayes wee 〈◊〉 can I be of the same 〈◊〉 with my neighbour and yet differ from him in the same thing surely if our Religion and that of Protestants be the same wee are not to be sayd to differ but to agree in it vnless our aduersary and his party thinke they may vary the common sense and notion of words at their sole pleasure Beside those points about which vnder the notion of corruptions and errours the Bishop himselfe acknowledges that wee doe differ eyther they are parts of Chrstian Religion or they are not So they be parts of Christian Religion seeing by his own confession wee differ in them from Protestants how is Christian Religion in gross sayd to be common to vs both how is it the same to Catholiques and Protestants If they be not parts of Christian Religion how can wee by reason of them be sayd to differ from Protestants in Religion or in the same Christian Religion But what sayes the Bishop cannot I proue any superstition or errour to be in the Roman Church none at all A.C. it seems had told him so now truly I would to God from my heart this were true and that the Church of Rome were so happy and the Catholique Church thereby 〈◊〉 with truth and peace For J am confident such truth would soone eyther command peace or confound peace breakers But is there 〈◊〉 superstition in adoration of Images None in Inuocation of Saynts None in adoration of the Sacrament Js there 〈◊〉 errour in breaking Christs own Institution of the Sacrament by giuing it but in one kinde None about Purgatory and common prayer in an vnknowen tongue These and many more are in the Roman Religion and 't is noe hard worke to proue euery one of these to be errour or superstition or both Wee answer 't is a harder worke to proue them to be so then barely to affirme them to be so otherwise wee are confident his Lordship would haue been as liberall of his proofs in this kinde as he is of his 〈◊〉 for surely it more imported him to proue then to accuse But wee aske how will his friends and adherents after him proue them to be superstitions and errours By Scripture only who shall be iudge that the places alledged out of Scripture to that purpose beare the sense in which Protestants vnderstand rather then that in which Generall Councills vnderstood them when they defin'd the recited particulars as the present Roman Church beleeues and obserues them at this day when they haue done all they can the finall resolution of the business must according to Protestants be reduced to priuate iudgement which in such matters as these according to St. Austin is most insolent madness Nor doe J see vpon what ground the Relatour could be so confident that if the Roman Church were so happy as to teach nothing but truth to witt in Protestants sense that is to agree with Protestants in condemning the worship of Jmages Jnuocation of Saynts Adoration of the Sacrament Purgatory etc. it would so certainly eyther command peace or confound peace-breakers as he imagins What confusion I pray would it be for such people to disagree from a Church which proclaymes her owne erroneousness to all the world by beginning now to teach contrary not only to her selfe and her own former beleefe but contrary to the generall beleefe of all Christendome beside for many hundred of yeares would not the very alteration of doctrine which in this supposition the Roman Church must necessarily make render it euident to all men that both her selfe and the whole Church of Christ with her may erre and hath erred in points of greatest importance concerning the Fayth what peace-breakers would be confounded with the authority of a Church so apt to fall into errours and superstitions of such dangerous nature Truly for my part I am soe farre from thinking such an impossible case as the Bishop here putts would eyther command peace or confound peace-breakers that is the Authours or Abettours of priuate
and contrary opinions in Religion that I see nothing in the world more likely to animate and encourage them still to persist in their obstinate refractariness and to cast off euen all sense of due obedience and reuerence of the Churches authority 7. But the Bishop beeing so well content as he tells vs with men's opinion of his weakeness it will be no hard worke for his friends to excuse his ouer-confidence in this particular when they please vpon that ground only of pride he is not willing to be taxed For which reason A. C. hauing told him as most iustly he might that he could not proue any errour or superstition to be in the Roman Religion but by presuming with intelerable pride to make himselfe or some of his fellowes to be iudge of controuersies and taking authority to censure all for superstition and errour that suites not with their fancies he complaines as beeing in this deeply censur'd by A. C. and demands wherein does his pride appeare I answer his own confession sufficiently shewes that in the very next lines where he sayes indeed if I tooke this vpon mee J were guilty of great pride This that is to make himselfe or some of 〈◊〉 fellowes iudge of controuersies or to endeauour to proue errour and superstition in the Roman Church by taking such authority vpon him he confesses were great pride Well But how does he cleere himselfe of the charge How does he conuince the Roman Church of errour and superstition otherwise then by taking this authority him and making himselfe or some of his fellows Iudge of Controuersies To say only as he does I absolutely make a lawfull and free Generall Councill iudge of conerouersies by and according to Scripture will not serue his turn by reason that if he stand to his own principles and the generall practice of Protestants hitherto none but himselfe and some of his fellowes shall be iudge whether the Councill be lawfull and free or not For if eyther it consists of such as fauour not their opinions or will not obserue such conditions as he and his fellows thinke good to prescribe though neuer so contrary to the Canons and legall proceedings of former Councils wee are sure enough it will neuer be acknowledg'd for free or lawfull by our Aduersaries Againe standing to the Bishops principles and the common practice of his partie expounding them who but himselfe and his fellowes shall be iudge whether a lawfull and free Generall Councill hath defined or doth define by and according to Scripture Doth not the Relatour himselfe expressly teach § 38. num 15. that if a Generall Councill shall forget it selfe and take vpon it to define things not absolutely necessary to be expressly known and actually beleeu'd by all neither it nor the whole Church hath any such infallible assistance but that Christians euery priuate Christian he sayes num 23. may vpon iust grounds both deliberately doubt and constantly deny the definitions of such Councils Likewise doth he not tell vs Ibidem num 24. that it is no pride not to submitt to know'n and gross errours defin'd by Councils instancing by name in the Councils of Lateran Constance and Trent as hauing made erroneous definitions in matter of Fayth what is this in effect but to teach that noe man is bound to admitt the doctrine defined by Generall Councills meerly for the Authority of the sayd Councills and if not who sees it not manifestly to fallow that cuery priuate Christian that is in other terms himselfe or some of his followes is by our Aduersarie made iudge of Controuersies and allowed to take the Authority vpon them of censuring all for superstition and errour that suites not with their priuate iudgement which is the thing his Lordship but euen now confessed to be great pride But the Relatour will proue from the testimony of A C. himselfe that he is not guilty of pride in this particular viz. of making himselfe Judge of Controuersies etc. For why A C. taxes him for giuing too much power to Generall Councils and binding men to a strict Obedience to them euen in case of errour Therfore sure sayth he most innocent I am of the intolerable pride which he is pleas'd to charge vpon mee J aske is this testimony of A C. true or not If it be not true how can he from a false testimony inferre his own innocency If it be true viz. that the Bishop by his doctrine doth really binde men to a strict obedience to the definitions of Generall Councills euen in case of errour how grossly doth he contradict himselfe when he sayes ' tir noe pride not to submitt to know'n and gross errours euen of Generall Councills and teaches that a priuate man vpon iust grounds may both deliberately doubt and constantly deny the defined doctrines of some Councils This surely is in effect to deny both internall and externall obedience too to Generall Councils For if wee may deliberately doubt where is internall obedience If wee may constantly denie where is the externall Doth he not also teach Ibidem num 23. that a priuate Christian may not only consider and examin the definitions of Generall Councils both for his own and the Churches satisfaction but also propose his doubts in opposition to the Councils doctrine in such manner as the whole Church shall be oblig'd to call an other Generall Councill to consider of the matter etc How can this be done without expressing dislike or shewing some externall disobedience to the precedent Councill lett our Aduersarie if they please shew how But wee haue already chap. 20. and 21. largely treated of this subiect To as little purpose is it for him to plead that be submitts his iudgement in all humility to the Scripture interpreted by the Primitiue Church But that this is a false pretense wee haue all along in this treatise demonstrated but more particularly chap. 20. 21. The Bishop proceeds saying that he submitts vpon new and necessary doubts to the iudgement of a lawfull and free Generall Councill Fairly spoken Vpon new and necessary doubts he will submitt not otherwise But wee must know in the Bishops sense and according to the principles already aduanc'd and resolutely insisted vpon by him noe doubts are necessary but such as concern matters Fundamentall in Fayth that is as he perpetually explaines himselfe absolutely necessary to be expressly know'n and beleeu'd by all Christians for Saluation So that in all other points of doctrine eyther determin'd and defin'd already or hereafter to be determin'd and defin'd by the Church he does vpon the matter openly profess that he will not submitt to the iudgement of a Generall Councill but follow his own priuate opinion though contrary to it Now what is this but to take vpon him to be iudge of controuersies in opposition to Generall Councills and to censure for superstition and errour what suites not with his priuate fancie 8. But our Aduersarie would haue A.C. consider how iustly all
this may be turned vpon himselfe viz. that be hath nothing to pretend THERE ARE NOT GROSS ERROVRS AND SVPERSTITIONS in the Roman persuasion as he calls it vnless by intolerable pride he make himselfe and his partie iudge of Controuersies But who sees not this is a most palpable vntruth All the world knows that A. C. and all his party submitt with most absolute humility of judgement to the desinitions of Generall Councills and so haue euer done A. C. makes not himselfe iudge of controuersies betwixt him and his Aduersaries but a lawfull Generall Councill yea all the lawfull Generall Councills that euer the Church had or esteem'd such To them he appeales to them he stands lett Protestants doe as much and the controuersies would not be hard to be ended So vtterly false it is what the Bishop affirms here that We will he iudg'd by none but the ` Pope and a Councill of his ordering Doe the Relatours Adherents thinke there was euer a Generall Councill in the Church well ordered lett them name it wee stand to its sentence Neither doe wee require that any Councill should be of the Popes ordering further then the Canons of the Church doe allow him and his Predecessours haue in effect done in all Generall Councills euen the fowre first True it is A. C. and all Catholiques with him acknowledge noe Councill to be a lawfull ludge of controuersies vnless it be approu'd and confirm'd by the Pope but in this there is noe pride For the right of confirming the decrees of Generall Councills wherein controuersies of Fayth are judged hath euer belong'd to St. Peters Successor as wee haue already shew'n and St. Austin Epist 62 with the whole Councill of Mileuis professes it to be grounded on Scripture yea the Canons of the vniuersall Church doe expressly allow it him witness euen Socrates himselfe noe very great friend of the Roman Church Sozomen with others and in the Generall Councill of Chalcedon Action 1. Dioscorus no meaner person then the Patriarch of Alexandria is for this very reason deny'd the priuiledge of sitting in Councill because he had presum'd to hold a Generall Councill to witt the predatory or pretended second Councill of Ephesus without the Popes Authority a thing which as the Fathers there acknowledge was neuer lawfull to doe nor euer done before NVNQVAM LICVIT NEC VNQVAM FACTVM EST. Why therfore shall A. C. be tax'd of pride if he beleeues the doctrine of the Roman Church to be true vpon the Authority of Generall Councills confirm'd by the Pope who sees not a great deale of difference betwixt him and his Aduersary in this regard A. C. in his vnderstanding of Scripture followes the exposition of Generall Councills the Bishop relyes vpon no interpretation but this own teaching that Generall Councills may erre in their exposition of Scripture euen in points Fundamentall and absolutely necessary to Saluation A. C. acknowledges he can be infallibly certaine of nothing in matter of Fayth by the bare letter of Scripture and the light of his own vnderstanding only the Bishop is confident that by the letter of Scripture only and his owne iudgement he can be infallibly assur'd of all necessary points of Fayth A. C. is ready to submitt his iudgement to a Generall Councill in any point of doctrine whatsoeuer seeming reasons or grounds he may priuately haue to the contrary the Bishop allowes a man vpon probable grounds to doubt and vpon cleerer grounds to deny and oppose the definitions of such a Councill A.C. thinks it an vngodly presumption to taxe Generall Councills of errour and superstition the Bishop makes noc scruple to censure diuerse of them for damnable errours A. C. holds it altogether vnlawfull for any Christian to dissent from the Catholique Church in any point of defined doctrine whatsoeuer great or small the Bishop maintaines that the whole Catholique Church may erre both grossly and dangerously in all points not Fundamentall and that all priuate Christians who vnderstand or perceiue such errours to be in the Church may dissent yea if need be that is if the Church will not reforme the sayd errours vpon their admonition separate from her as Luther and his followers did when they first began their reformation Lett any indifferent person then be iudge whether that which A.C. charges vpon the Bishop concerning pride and taking vpon him to be iudge of Controuersies in opposition to Generall Councills may be as iustly turned vpon himselfe as the Relatour here pretends His next Paragraph only tells vs what was the conclusion of his first-publish't Relation of the conference with Mr. Fisher wherein he falls againe to his wonted custome of charging his Aduersary indirectly at least with what he does not own A. C. doth not maintaine the Pope to be infallible in all controuersies of Fayth otherwise then in and with a Generall Councill witness his own words in the end of his answer I wish sayth he the Chaplain and his lord and euery other man carefully to consider whether it be not more Christian etc. to thinke that the Pope beeing St. Peters Successour WITH A GENERALL COVNCILL should be iudge of Controuersies and his Pastorall iudgement viz. in and with such a Councill be accounted infallible then to make euery man that can read Scripture an interpreter of Scriptures and decider of Controuersies euen to the controuling of Generall Councills or to haue noe iudge in controuersies of Fayth at all This is the summe of all that A. C. teaches touching the Popes infallibility and if the Bishop could really thinke this to be such a brayne-sicke deuice as he talks of I doubt it will be thought by some that his own head was not alwayes in good temper 9. A. C. to shew that in matters of Fayth wee ought to submitt our iudgements to such doctours and Pastours as by a continuall visible succession haue without interruption or change brought the Fayth down from Christ and his Apostles to these our dayes and shall by vertue of Christs promise in the like continued succession so carry it downe to all future generations till the end of the world makes vse of that text of St. Paul Ephes. 4. 11. 12. 13. etc. where 't is sayd that Christ ascending gaue some to be Apostles some Prophets some Euangelists some Pastours and teachers for the perfecting of the Saynts for the worke of the ministery for the edifying of the Body of Christ till wee all come in the vnity of the Fayth and of the knowledge of the sonne of God vnto a perfect man etc. 'T is true some from this place gather the Popes infallibility too as well as the necessary succession of lawfull Pastours because it is intimated there shall be noe more wanting in the sacred Hierarchy of the Church the office of of an Apostle then the office of a Pastour or teacher till the end of the world Now to the office of an Apostle two things are necessary viz.
Damned page 336 Heresies Even in points Not-Fundamental in Protestants sense by St. Austin and the Churches account page 17 Pelagian Heresie not condemned in the Council of Ephesus page 33 Nor in any other General Council acknowledg'd by Protestants Ibid. Heresie what it is page 178 Properly speaking not within but without the Church page 218 Hereticks Those of former times as great Pretenders to Scripture as Protestants page 50 Faith necessary to be kept with Hereticks the constant Tenet of all Catholicks page 152 Jews THe Jews prov'd the Old Testament to be Gods Word the same way that we Catholicks do the New page 121 They held not the Old Testament for their sole Rule of Faith page 122 Images No real difference betwixt the Ancient and the Modern Church of Rome in point of Images page 294 The Second Council of Nice expresly forbad the Worship of Images with Latria or Divine Worship Ibid. c. The Definition of the Council of Trent touching the Worshipping of Images Ibid. The Church hath done what in her lyeth to prevent abuses in Image-Worship Ibid. Images in common use and veneration amongst Christians in Primitive Times page 295 296 Index The Index Expurgatorius justified against the Bishops Calumnies page 342 Infallible The Catholick Church prov'd to be Infallible by the same Means that Moyses Christ and his Apostles were prov'd such page 55 56 62 In what sense Catholicks maintain that the Tradition of the present Church must be as Infallible as that of the Primitive and Apostolical p. 80 No Means to be Infallibly sure of Prime Apostolical Tradition if the present Church be Fallible page 83 Necessary for the Church to have power to determine Infallibly as well Not-Fundamental as Fundamental points page 385 Infallibility Whence the Infallibility both of the Catholick Church and General Councils proceeds page 43 The Infallibility of the present Church prov'd from Scripture page 101 102 c. page 177 178 179 In what manner the Churches Infallibility in Teaching is rightly infer'd from the Holy Ghosts Assistance page 375 376 Intention What kinde of Intention in the Priest is absolutely necessary to the validity of the Sacraments page 281 282 283 No real Inconveniencies following the Catholique Doctrine touching the Priests Intention page 284 285 Judge Our Adversaries demand of a Third person to be Judge and Umpire betwixt the Roman Church and Them nugatory and frivolous pag. 157 171 172 173 The notorious partiality of English Protestant Prelats in this case p. 174 General Councils by the Bishops own confession the best Judge on earth for Controversies of Faith where the sense of Scripture is doubted page 213 A visible supreme living Judge to determine Controversies as necessary in the Church as State page 219 Legats NEither Hosius nor any other person presided at the Council of Nice but onely in quality of the Popes Legats page 231 Why the Pope sent no Legats to the second Council at Constantinople page 232 At the Council of Ephesus St. Cyril presided as Legat to Pope Celestin. Ibid. The like was at Chalcedon and other General Councils Ibid. Limbus Patrum The Fathers generally teach Limbus Patrum page 336 Literae Communicatoriae The Literae Communicatoriae by whom first ordain'd and to what end page 220 They evidently prove the Popes Authority Ibid. The difference betwixt Those granted by the Pope and Those granted by other Catholique Bishops Ibid. Lyturgie The English Lyturgie why unlawful to be us'd by Catholiques page 319 Manichees GReat Braggers and pretenders to Truth when they most oppos'd it page 30 Miracles None ever wrought in confirmation of the present Canon of Scriptures either Protestant or Catholique page 109 Miracles rather confirm the Churches Infallibility then the Scripture's page 110 They are always sufficiently convincing though they do not actually convert page 115 Monarchy That of the Church not a pure but mixt Monarchy page 219 224 Monarchy acknowledg'd by Philosophers the most perfect form of Government page 220 The impugning Monarchical Government of the Church to what it tends page 224 Multitude Catholiques make not Multitude alone any Infallible Mark of the True Church page 162 Necessary POints said to be Necessary to Salvation in a double sense p. 15 92 Not absolutely necessary to Salvation to believe Scripture p. 91 92 Nice No Synod held at Rome in the time of the Nicen Council page 237 The Council of Nice of absolute Authority without the concurrence of any other Council Ibid. The Council of Sardica esteem'd anciently but an Appendix of the Council of Nice and the reasons why page 194 195 The probable occasion of Pope Zosimus his citing the Council of Nice for that of Sardica Ibid. Obedience NO External Obedience to be given to the Definitions of General Councils should they manifestly erre against Scripture and Demonstration page 241 242 Object of Faith Material and Formal a necessary Distinction page 15 18 What it imports Ibid. Patriarchs IN point of Authority not Equal to the Bishop of Rome p. 183 184 The Bishop of Rome Head and Prince of all the Patriarchs by the very Canon of the Council of Nice Ibid. The Popes Confirmation requir'd to all new-elected Patriarchs Ibid. Eight several Patriarchs depos'd by the Bishop of Rome Ibid. Other Patriarchs restor'd to their Seas by the Popes Authority Ibid. St. Peter In what manner St. Peter represented or bare the person of the whole Church when he receiv'd the Keyes Matth. 16. 19. page 266 267 Christs whole flock more absolutely and unlimitedly committed to St. Peter then to the other Apostles page 211 Pope The Popes Authority alwayes included and suppos'd in that of the Church pag. 33 The Infallibility of the Pope not necessarily tyed to the particular Church or city of Rome page 132 Catholiques not oblig'd to maintain the Pope Infallible save onely with a General Council page 133 143 In what manner the Popes trewhile indur'd the Emperours censures page 192 The Popes Authority duly acknowledg'd would effectually prevent Heresies and preserve Unity in the Church page 218 The Popes Greatness no effect of Humane Policy page 13 Nor of his Residence in the Imperial-City page 192 The Definition of the Council of Florence touching the Popes Authority page 228 229 The Popes Authority not prejudicial to that of Temporal Princes p. 223 Pope Alexander the Third and Pope Innocent the Third not contrary to one another in the cause of Peter Lombard page 279 Pope Honorius not really guilty of the Monothelites Heresie p. 279 280 Priest The judgement of the High Priest and his Sanhedrim in Controversies concerning the Law Infallible under the Old Testament p. 97 123 Prescription Justly pleaded by Catholiques for their Religion not so by Protestants page 333 334 Primacy PRIMATUS and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 what they signifie especially in Ecclesiastical sense page 200 Primacy inferrs Supremacy and belongs to St. Peters Successors 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 then to himself Ibid. Protestants Neither Scripture nor any other
point of Christian Religion believ'd by Protestants with Divine Faith page 125 126 127 352 Their Protestation at Auspurgh 1529. directly against the Roman Church and her Doctrine page 146 147 To Protest against the Roman Church in the manner they then did was to Protest against all True visible Churches in the world page 147 Protestants are Chusers in point of Faith as much as any other Heretiques page 353 How far Protestants relie upon the Infallible Authority of the whole Church Ibid. Why unlawful for Catholicks in England to go to Protestant Churches page 401 Purgatory The Council of Florence unanimous in defining the point of Purgatory page 358 The Fathers as well within the first 300. years as after constantly teach Purgatory p. 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 No real difference betwixt praying for the Dead us'd by the Ancients and praying for the Dead us'd by the Roman Church at present p. 360 361 The Testimonies of the Fathers in proof of Purgatory made good page 358 c. ut supra Purgatory rightly esteem'd an Apostolical Tradition page 370 Reformation ALwayes and professedly intended by the Popes themselves in what was really needful p. 147. effected by the Council of Trent Ibid. The Church of Juda no pattern of the Protestants Reformation p. 160 The Parallel for them holds better in the revolted Tribes page 161 Sacriledge the natural fruit of Protestant Reformation page 170 Regicide No doctrine of Catholicks page 212 348 Resolution of Faith How Catholiques do necessarily resolve their Faith into the Churches Definition and how not page 58 60 63. How such and such Books contain'd in the Bible are known to be the word of God page 59 122 No vicious Circle incurr'd by Catholiques in the Resolution of their Faith page 55 62 117 126 In urging the Circle both parties must be suppos'd to believe Scripture with Divine and Infallible Faith page 111 The Bishop in his Resolution cannot avoid the Circle page 64 111 Revelation The Churches Testimony or Definition no New nor Immediate Revelation from God page 58 65 Divine Revelation the onely Formal Object or Motive of Infallible Faith page 59 Safe-Conduct GRanted two wayes jure communi and jure speciali and how they differ page 153 The Safe-Conducts granted to John Huss and Hierome of Prague were meerly jure communi and secur'd them onely against unjust violence Ibid. The Safe-Conduct granted to Protestants by the Council of Trent was jure speciali and as Full and Absolute as themselves could desire or the Council grant page 153 154 The 〈◊〉 of the Council of Constance touching Safe-Conducts granted by Temporal Princes what it intended page 154 156 It contain'd nothing against keeping Faith with Heretiques Ibid. Salvation Attainable in the Roman Faith and Church by our Adversaries own confession page 300 301 c. Catholique Doctors in possibility of Salvation by the Bishops own grounds page 323 324 The Roman Religion demonstrated to be a more safe way to Salvation then that of Protestants page 301 302 303 307 308 Saints Invocation of Saints no Errour in Faith page 290 291 The Fathers teach it ex instituto and Dogmatically Ibid. St. Austin expresly for it Ibid. The Saints Mediatours of Intercession not of Redemption pag. 292 The faithful under the old Testament desir'd to be heard for the merits of Saints no less then we Ibid. The Intercession of Saints departed not derogatory to the Merits or Intercession of Christ. page 293 Schisme Protestants not Catholiques made the present Schisme and how p. 144 145 146 212 Schismes at Rome not in the Roman Church properly speaking p. 144 The true and real causes of Protestants being-Excommunicated by the Roman Church page 145 158 In point of Departure as well as other Circumstances the Parallel betwixt them and the Arians holds good page 145 No just cause assignable for Schisme page 151 Scripture Not believ'd to be Divine but for the Churches Authority p. 17 66 67 Scripture alone can be no sufficient ground of Infallible Assent to Superstructures or non-Fundamental points contained in it page 19 No means of Infallibly-discerning true Scripture from false unless the Church be Infallible page 85 In what cases 't is both lawful and necessary for Christians to riquire a proof that Scripture is Gods word page 118 Scripture alone in the Bishops opinion the whole Foundation of Divine Faith page 116 In what sense Christians must suppose or take it for granted that it is Divine or Gods word page 121 What Light the Scripture must have to shew it self to be Gods Word page 87 The Belief of Scripture for its own pretended Light imprudent p. 88 89 90 91 116 125 The Fathers for some hundred years after Christ 〈◊〉 saw no such Light page 70 91 No reason can be given why Catholicks should not see that pretended Light if there were any such page 90 The Council of Nice made not Scripture their onely Rule of Faith in condemning the Arian Heresie page 125 The Scriptures prerogative above the Church page 60 64 Scripture in a proper sense no first principle p. 51 90 114 118 119 Succession St. James not Successour to our Lord in the Principality of his Church page 205 Our Saviours Prayer Luc. 22. 32. effectually extended both to St. Peter and his Successours page 208 Lawful Pastours visibly Succeeding each other and handing down the same unchanged Doctrine from Christ to this present time an infeparable mark of the true Church page 410 411 Sound Doctrine indivisible from the whole lawful Succession Ibid. The Popes Succession not interrupted by Contestations about the Papacy page 412 413 Sunday That Sunday be kept Holy instead of the Jewish Sabbath an Apostolical Tradition page 67 Synods The Pope no enemy or opposer of National Synods page 166 Sundry National Synods impertinently alled'gd by the Bishop in point of Reformation page 167 168 169 Tradition NOt known but for and by the Churches Authority page 17 Traditions unwritten page 26 67 What Traditions are to be accounted truly Apostolical and the unwritten word of God page 66 c. Universal Tradition morally speaking less subject to alteration or vitiating tiating then Scripture page 98 Church-Tradition a necessary condition of Infallible Belief page 59 How necessary it is that the Tradition of the present Church should be Infallible page 126 Transubstantiation No errour in Faith page 287 Not inconsistent with the grounds of Christian Religion Ibid. The Thing it self alwayes believ'd by Christians page 288 Evinc'd from the Text. page 288 289 Trent The Council of Trent a lawful and free General Council p. 165 229 Nothing to he objected against it more then against all General Councils Ibid. The Popes presiding therein contrary to no Law Divine Natural or Humane but his undoubted Right page 230 231 232 The Pope no more the person to be reform'd at the Council of Trent then at those of Nice and Chalcedon page 232 The place as indifferently chosen for
of Holy Images Invocation of Saints Purgatory Praying for the Dead that they might be eased of their pains and receive the full remission of their sins generally used and practis'd by all Christians Was not Freewill 〈◊〉 of good Works and Justification by Charity or Inherent Grace and not by Faith onely universally taught and believ'd in all Churches of Christendom Yea even among those who in some few other points dissented from the Pope and the Latin Church To what purpose then doth the Bishop urge that a particular Church may publish any thing that is Catholique this doth not justifie at all his reformation he should prove that it may not onely adde but take away something that is Catholique from the doctrine of the Church for this the pretended Reformers did as well in England as elsewhere 5. It is not a thing so evident in Antiquity when or where the word Filioque was added to the Creed that his Lordship should so so easily take it for granted without proof that the Roman Church added it in quality of a particular Church All that can be gathered from Authours so far as I can yet learn concerning this point is that in the Councils of Toledo and Luca assembled against the Hereticks call'd Priscillianists the word is found inserted in the Creed which is suppos'd to have been done upon the Authority of an Epistle they had receiv'd from Pope Leo the first wherein he affirms the Procession of the Holy Ghost to be both from the Father and Son I confess Hugo Eterianus in his Book written upon this Subject about the year 1100 affirms that it was added by the Pope in a full Council at Rome but he names not the Pope Whether it were because in his time 't was generally known what Pope it was I cannot certainly say but of this I am sure that by reason of his silence we now know not with any certainty whom he meant Card. Perron directly affirms that it was first added by an Assembly of French Bishops But perhaps that may be more probable which Stanislaus Socolovius tells us in his Latin Translation of the Answer of Hieremias Patriarch of Constantinople to the Lutherans pag. 8. viz. that the Fathers of the first Council at Constantinople which is the second General sending the Confession of their Faith to Pope Damasus and his Council at Rome the Pope and Council at Rome approv'd of their said Confession but yet added by way of explication the word Filioque to the Article which concern'd the Holy Ghost and this they did to signifie that the Holy Ghost as True God proceeded from the Son and was not made or created by him as some Heretiques in those times began to teach Neither doth he affirm this without citation of some credible Authority adding withall that this Definition or Declaration of the Pope was for some hundreds of years generally admitted and embrac'd by the whole Church neither Greeks nor Latins dissenting or taking any exception at the word Filioque till about the time of the Eighth Synod where the Greeks first began publiquely to cavil against it more out of pride and peevish emulation against the Latins then for any urgent Reasons they had to contest it more then their predecessours before them But of this I need not contend further with his Lordship 6. To return therefore to our business of Reformation we grant in effect as great power as the Bishop himself does to particular Churches to National and Provincial Councils in reforming errours and abuses either of doctrine or practice onely we require that they proceed with due respect to the chief Pastour of the Church and have recourse to him in all matters and decrees of Faith especially when they define or declare points not generally known and acknowledg'd to be Catholique Truths For this even Capellus himself by the Relatour here cited requires and the practise of the Church is evident for it in the examples of the Milevitan and Carthaginian Councils which as St. Austin witnesses sent their decrees touching Grace Original Sin in Infants and other matters against Pelagius to be confirm'd by the Pope who was not esteem'd by St. Austin and those Fathers the Disease of the Church a tearm very unhandsome from an inferiour but rather the Physician of it to whose Care and Government it was committed Neither do I think it convenient to stay for a General Council when the errours and abuses to be redressed are such as call for speedy remedy and threaten greater mischief if they be not timely prevented When the Gangrene endangers life we do well to betake our selves to the next Chyrurgeon that is a Provincial Council This in such a case with the Popes assistance is acknowledg'd a Physician competent and able to apply all due remedy to the Churches infirmities although I confess the most proper Expedient specially for all matters that concern the Church in general is an Oecumenical Council Such as the Council of Trent was whatever the Bishop without any reason given sayes to the contrary nor can any thing be objected against it which upon due examination will not be found as easily applyable to all other approved Councils which the Church hath yet had so that by disowning this we should in effect disown all others But suppose it had not been General yet sure it was for Number Learning and Authority far surpassing any National Council or Synod which the Protestants either of England or any other Nation ever had Wherefore if their Assemblies or Synods so inconsiderable as they were are yet esteem'd of sufficient Authority to make reformation in matters of Faith and correct what doctrine they imagin'd erroneous in the Catholique Church shall not the Council of Trent be as sufficient to assure us that the said pretended errours are indeed no errours at all but Divine Truths and the perpetual universally receiv'd Traditions of Christs Church 7. But it is yet more strange that our Adversary should also object want of Freedom to this Council seeing that even by the relation of their own partial and malevolent Historian it sufficiently appears that neither the Prelates wanted full liberty of Suffrage nor the Divines of Disputation and maintaining their several assertions in the best manner they could His Lordship had done well to have lookt nearer home and consider'd how matters were carried in England much about that time If the Council of Trent were not a free Council what was that Protestant Synod of London Anno 1562. in which the thirty nine Articles that is the summe of the Protestant Faith and Religion in England were fram'd Was that a Free Synod First at Trent all the Prelates in Christendome that could be invited and were concern'd in the Resolutions of that Council being solemnly call'd did come and assist either in their persons or proxies both at the Deliberations and Determinations of the Assembly I adde that the Protestants themselves were
Communion that they were sworn Enemies of all such Heretiques as then respectively call'd either for Reformation or such a Free Council as Protestants now do viz. that should include all Schismatiques and Heretiques whatsoever profefsing the name of Christ. Again the Oath which the Bishops usually take does not at all deprive them of the liberty of their Suffrage nay it doth not so much as oblige them not to proceed and vote even against the Pope himself if they see just cause but onely that they will be obedient to him so long as he commands things suitable to the will of God and the Sacred Canons of the Church Neither were the Protestants otherwise pronounced Heretiques by the Pope then in pursuance of the Canons of the Church which required him so to do and of the Decrees of General Councils which had already condemnd their opinions for Heresie 5. His last exception is against the small number of Bishops present at the Tridentine Council and in the first place he mentions the Greeks whom he takes to have been unjustly excluded But I answer first the Pope by his Bull call'd all that had right to come making no exclusive mention of any Secondly the Greeks by reason of their notorious Schisme had excluded themselves and perhaps durst not venture to come as knowing that the Orthodox Bishops at Trent would have withstood their admission it being confess'd that no known Heretique or Schismatique hath right othertherwise then by special leave or permission to sit in Council Those Greeks whose names are found among the Subscribers of this Council were Orthodox Bishops of the Greek Church not purposely made and sent thither by the Pope as the Relatour surmizes but expell'd and by force kept out of their Seas by those who had wrongfully usurp'd them and these assisted at the Council of Trent in their own right viz. as Catholique Bishops of the Greek Church Neither needed they any particular sending from the Greeks as the case then stood and still continues 't is sufficient they were call'd by the Pope and had right of assisting in the Council as true Bishops of the Greek Church We are told again that in many Sessions of this Council there were scarceten Archbishops present and not above forty or fifty Bishops and for the west nearer home it reckon'd no more then one English viz. the Bishop of St. Asaph I answer many more were both call'd and expected who likewise came long before the end of the Council and confirm'd by their Suffrage what had passed before their coming which was sufficient Concerning those of our Countrey the Relatour seems not to have been so well vers'd in the Acts of the Council as he might have been otherwise he would have found beside the Bishop of St. Asaph Richard Pate Bishop of Worcester present in the sixth Session of the Council of Trent He is also said to have been there at the very first opening of the Council and is mention'd both in the thirteenth Session and divers others As for his Authority or Right to sit there being not sent or deputed by the English Church we answer such Mission or Deputation is not of absolute necessity but onely of Canonical Provision when time and state of the Countries whence Bishops are sent will permit in other cases it sufficeth they be called by the Pope Now 't is undeniable that for some years before the Council ended the English Bishops that should have sent their Deputies to accompany these forementioned Bishops to the Council were restrain'd in prison by Queen Elizabeth The Bishop therefore being so apt to mistake in the Affairs of his own countrey we cannot give much credit to him in what he affirms either of France or Spain It sufficeth that in diverse Sessions of this Council many Bishops of both these Nations were present and might have been in all the rest had the particular affairs of their own Countries permitted them The impediment was not on the Councils part and consequently their absence could be no just prejudice to the Authority Legality or Liberty of it and in the latter Sessions wherein all that had been formerly Defin'd by the Council was de novo confirm'd and ratify'd by the unanimous consent of all the Prelats 't is manifest the Council was so full that in number of Bishops it clearly exceeded some of the first four Councils which even our Adversaries themselves account General 6. The whole matter therefore duly consider'd A. C. wanted not reason to tell the Bishop that nothing could be pretended by him against the Council of Trent which might not in effect have been as justly objected by the Arians against the Council of Nice But to this the Bishop will by no means yield telling us the case is not alike between the said Councils and endeavouring to shew the Disparity in diverse respects First saith he the Bishops of the Nicen Council professed not to depart from Scripture but engaged to prove what they defin'd by many testimonies thereof whereas the Council of Trent as the Relatour affirms concluded many things simply EXTRA out of all bound of Scripture leaving both its Letter and sense I answer the Arians objected the same to the Nicen Fathers namely that they concluded things both beside and contrary to Scripture they alledged Scripture for their Heresie they said in effect to the Father 's then what the Bishop and his party say to us now we are sure and we are able to prove that the Council of Nice had not Scripture for them There is therefore no such disparity between them as the Bishop pretends The truth is both these Councils had the Scripture for their rule and proved by it the Doctrine they Defined but neither of them hold it for their onely rule or so made use of it as to reject Tradition for which the Scripture it self is admitted In confirmation of which Theodoret expresly sayes that in condemning the Arian Heresie the Council of Nice grounded it self upon Tradition not but that many Testimonies of Scripture were rightly urg'd by the Bishops of that Council against Arius but because Tradition was the principal thing that was clear and unquestionable on the Councils side the Arians partly by their private and subtle Interpretations eluding the force of many Texts which Catholiques brought against them and partly alledging not a few Texts for their own opinion against the Catholique Doctrine As to what he addes in the Margent that the whole Church concluded that Scripture was against the Arians and agreeing with the Council of Nice but that the like consent is not that Scripture is for the Council of Trent and against Protestants We answer the like consent of the whole Church both is and was when Protestants first began that either Scripture or Apostolical Tradition which is equivalent to it was for the Council of Trent and against Protestants Is it not evident to go no further back then the Year 1500. that
all the visible Hierarchical Congregations of Christians in the World had Mass used Prayer for the Dead invoked the Saints reverenced Holy Images and Reliques believed Purgatory the Real Presence of Christs Body in the Holy Eucharist and generally acknowledg'd all other Sacraments declar'd for such by the said Council As yet therefore there appears no Disparity between the Councils of Trent and Nice But he tells us the consent of the whole Church was that Scripture stood for the Council of Nice against the Arians which he denies it to have done for the Council of Trent To omit that the Bishop proves not his Assertion which therefore may as easily be deny'd as he affirms it if we extend nor the Church beyond its due limits can it be said the consent of the whole Church was that Scripture stood for the same Council in all that they defin'd to be Heretical Had they Scripture for the condemnation of the Quarto-decimani and Rebaptizers both which the said Council condemn'd together with the Arians If our Adversaries cannot shew us the particular Texts of Scripture by which the Council confuted these Heresies will it not be manifest they did it by sole Tradition 7. The Relatour having insinuated that the Pope made Bishops purposely for his side does here disclaim it upon this account that none can know the Popes intention but God who is the Surveyour of the heart Is not this to be religiously impertinent first to possess his Reader with a strong presumption of the Popes corrupt Designe and then to come no better off then by saying he could not see the secrets of his heart But he will have it that there were valuable Presumptions of making Bishops purposely to maintain his party I answer the Bishop should not have put us off with Ifs and And 's in that whereon he grounds an Accusation of so great importance but have sufficiently prov'd that there was de facto an extraordinary creation of Supernumerary and meerly Titular Bishops made about that time and sent to the Council to serve the Popes designs which we deny to have been done Secondly his pretence that the Council of Trent could be no competent judge in matters of Religion because the Pope had made himself a strong party in it is disprov'd by the very Argument he brings to assert it viz. the multitude of Italian Prelats For who knows not that the Italians are more divided in point of Interest and Dependence then any other Nation in Christendome by reason of the many Sovereign Principalities and States into which Italy is divided Though therefore we should surmize that the Italian Prelats in this Council were not guided by true principles of piety yet surely there is little reason to think they should combine with the Pope to serve his designs which in all probability would not suit so well with their own or Princes Interest on whom themselves and hope of advancement depended This Argument therefore hath so much in it of the Chimaera that certainly no solid judgement will esteeme it considerable To what the Relatour sayes touching the number of Bishops in the said Council that there were in it a hundred and four Italian Bishops more then of all the rest of Christendome I answer first that having viewed the Council of Trent with some diligence I cannot reconcile the numbers there set down with what is here avouched to be taken thence Secondly supposing his computation true what do's it prejudice our cause 'T is manifest the farre greater number of Italian Bishops were of the Domions of other Princes and had not the least shadow of any Temporal Dependance on the Pope and consequently no stricter tye upon them to serve his Interests then all the rest of the Bishops in that Council The reason why there might be more Bishops of Italy then other places is evident in regard that Countrey was in a far more quiet condition then either Germany or France which at that time were both infected with Heresie and imbroiled in Civil Wars so that the chief Pastours of those Provinces could not so well be spared from their Charge as these of Italy and for other Countries no wonder if they were thinner as being more remote To which I might adde that there are more Bishopricks in Italy then in any Nation of Christendome of no greater extent Now these concurring reasons might well increase the number of Italian Bishops without any such Design as Protestants and the Relatour here rashly surmizes Again what private Interest had the Pope to look to at the Council of Trent which was not common to him with all the Bishops in that Council nay indeed with all the Catholique Bishops of Christendom Was it not the Interest of all the Bishops in Christendome except those of the new stamp to keep Heresie out of their respective Diocesses and Provinces Was it not their Interest to preserve the Authority of the Canons and the free Exercise of Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction What other Interest but this and the like had the Pope to prosecute in the Council But the Relatour urges this Disparity between the Councils of Trent and Nice viz. that at the same time the Council sate at Nice Pope Sylvester held a Council at Rome in which he with two hundred seventy five Bishops of the West confirm'd the Nicen Creed and Anathematiz'd all those who should dare to dissolve the Definition of that Holy and Great Council whereas no such thing was done by the Greek Church to confirm the Council of Trent This we confess is some Disparity but very little to the purpose for though it happen'd that this was done de facto in confirmation of the Nicen Definitions yet had they not been of less Authority without such an Accessory Assembly provided the Pope had ratify'd them in such manner as he did the Decisions of the Council of Trent Did ever any of the Ancients attribute the Authority of the Nicene Council to the approbation given it by these Western Bishops surely no. Neither was this Roman Synod held at the same time with the Concil of Nice as the Relatour to amuze his Reader pretends but after it as the Acts themselves testifie Nor was the like done in other General Councils admitted by Protestants who cannot therefore in reason make this objection against the Council of Trent Lastly the Doctrine of Faith declared by the Council of Trent was universally receiv'd by the whole Catholique Church which was a confirmation incomparably greater then that of two hundred seventy five Bishops and the same Faith hath been far more constantly held ever since none of the Catholique Provinces of Christendom represented in that Council ever deserting the Faith there declar'd whereas many Provinces either in whole or part deserted the Faith defin'd at Nice and embraced the Arrian Heresie 8. Here for want of solid reasons the Bishop falls again to his surmizes by which he would fain insinuate to his