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christian_n church_n member_n society_n 2,075 5 9.3482 5 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A56167 A fvll reply to Certaine briefe observations and anti-queries on Master Prynnes twelve questions about church-government wherein the frivolousnesse, falseness, and grosse mistakes of this anonymous answerer (ashamed of his name) and his weak grounds for independency, and separation, are modestly discovered, reselled : together with certaine briefe animadversions on Mr. Iohn Goodwins Theomachia, in justification of independency examined, and of the ecclesisticall jurisdiction and rights of Parliament, which he fights against / by William Prynne ... Prynne, William, 1600-1669. 1644 (1644) Wing P3967; ESTC R3868 34,873 26

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they_o establish_v be_v not_o direct_o against_o god_n word_n nor_o pernicious_a to_o our_o soul_n though_o not_o altogether_o such_o as_o we_o can_v wish_v yet_o we_o ought_v content_o to_o submit_v unto_o it_o without_o opposition_n if_o contrary_a to_o the_o word_n we_o must_v then_o 〈◊〉_d submit_v thereto_o for_o the_o present_a and_o expect_v a_o redress_n in_o god_n due_a time_n but_o if_o it_o be_v such_o a_o government_n and_o discipline_n under_o which_o we_o may_v free_o enjoy_v the_o sincere_a and_o powerful_a preach_n of_o the_o word_n the_o due_a administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n and_o all_o other_o ordinance_n of_o god_n necessary_a for_o our_o salvation_n and_o edification_n as_o we_o may_v doubtless_o do_v under_o a_o presbytery_n and_o that_o government_n our_o pious_a parliament_n intend_v to_o settle_v we_o ought_v cordial_o and_o cheerful_o to_o submit_v thereto_o yea_o thankful_o to_o embrace_n and_o bless_v god_n for_o it_o and_o can_v neither_o waiward_o oppugn_v nor_o refuse_v submission_n to_o it_o without_o arrogancy_n contumacy_n and_o apparent_a schism_n as_o for_o his_o question_n concerning_o my_o own_o and_o follow-brethren_n suffering_n which_o we_o deem_v our_o honour_n not_o our_o shame_n i_o answer_v that_o none_o of_o we_o suffer_v for_o oppose_v write_v or_o speak_v against_o the_o bishop_n legal_a authority_n or_o any_o ceremony_n establish_v in_o our_o church_n by_o act_n of_o parliament_n but_o only_o against_o their_o pretend_a divine_a right_n to_o their_o episcopal_a lordly_a power_n diametral_o contrary_a to_o scripture_n father_n counsel_n the_o best_a protestant_n and_o popish_a author_n the_o *_o etc._n statute_n of_o our_o realm_n and_o against_o their_o innovation_n in_o doctrine_n discipline_n ceremony_n canon_n etc._n etc._n contrary_a to_o the_o law_n of_o the_o land_n article_n and_o homily_n of_o our_o church_n as_o the_o parliament_n have_v resolve_v they_o as_o all_o our_o book_n demonstrate_v and_o 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gentlewoman_n and_o you_o i_o hope_v will_v grant_v that_o their_o different_a fashion_n habit_n colour_n attire_n be_v all_o agreeable_a to_o god_n word_n if_o modest_a and_o warrant_v by_o this_o general_a precept_n 1_o tim._n 2._o 9_o let_v woman_n adorn_v themselves_o in_o modest_a apparel_n though_o not_o particularise_n in_o the_o text_n so_o may_v a_o church-government_n or_o dress_n be_v consonant_a to_o scripture_n though_o not_o precise_o delineate_v or_o enjoin_v by_o it_o 4._o to_o the_o four_o he_o give_v no_o answer_n at_o all_o but_o bid_v i_o prove_v it_o which_o i_o have_v do_v already_o in_o my_o independency_n examine_v till_o it_o be_v disprove_v 5._o to_o the_o five_o he_o grant_v that_o independency_n will_v overthrow_v all_o national_a church_n and_o synod_n and_o the_o two_o independent_a brethren_n assure_v we_o in_o their_o reply_n to_o a._n s_o p._n 111_o nota._n that_o in_o time_n it_o can_v but_o overthrow_v all_o other_o sort_n of_o ecclesiastical_a 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the_o public_a the_o lord_n preserve_v we_o from_o such_o a_o divide_v and_o overturn_v government_n as_o for_o his_o invective_n against_o the_o formality_n tyranny_n and_o enslave_v of_o man_n judgement_n in_o the_o presbyterial_a way_n as_o inconsistent_a with_o spiritual_a liberty_n and_o state_n privilege_n they_o be_v mere_a groundless_a calumny_n to_o draw_v a_o odium_fw-la on_o it_o some_o of_o your_o malcontented_a party_n profess_v they_o will_v rather_o set_v up_o lordly_a episcopacy_n which_o they_o have_v abjure_v than_o it_o whereas_o these_o aspersion_n suit_v better_a with_o your_o independent_a model_n which_o be_v more_o rigid_a uncharitable_a unsociable_a papal_a tyrannical_a antimonarchical_a anti-synodical_a yea_o anti-parliamental_a as_o i_o have_v elsewhere_o manifest_v than_o any_o other_o church-government_n whatsoever_o for_o my_o pretend_a bitter_a expression_n they_o be_v so_o suitable_a to_o the_o effect_n and_o real_a consequence_n of_o this_o new_a way_n as_o you_o style_v it_o that_o i_o can_v not_o express_v myself_o in_o other_o language_n without_o injury_n to_o the_o truth_n and_o if_o any_o of_o my_o best_a friend_n who_o stand_v by_o i_o in_o my_o suffering_n deem_v themselves_o injure_v or_o reproach_v by_o they_o as_o you_o pretend_v though_o none_o of_o they_o have_v yet_o complain_v to_o i_o it_o be_v i_o hope_v only_o scandalum_fw-la acceptum_fw-la non_fw-la datum_fw-la and_o i_o presume_v my_o friend_n be_v so_o ingenuous_a as_o not_o to_o be_v offend_v with_o i_o for_o *_o herein_o reprove_v only_o their_o error_n with_o ingenuous_a freedom_n in_o which_o i_o manifest_v myself_o their_o great_a friend_n because_o i_o neither_o spare_v nor_o flatter_v they_o in_o their_o mistake_n however_o though_o i_o real_o honour_v all_o my_o christian_a friend_n as_o well_o independent_a as_o presbyterial_a who_o you_o most_o scandalous_o traduce_v as_o episcopal_a and_o time-server_n heretofore_o yet_o i_o prefer_v the_o *_o veritas_fw-la truth_n of_o god_n the_o peace_n and_o safety_n of_o my_o native_a bleed_a die_a church_n and_o country_n now_o much_o endanger_v by_o our_o unhappy_a division_n before_o all_o friend_n or_o earthly_a comfort_n whatsoever_o as_o for_o your_o pretend_a unsubjection_n of_o presbyterian_a synod_n and_o church_n to_o the_o parliament_n in_o settle_v ecclesiastical_a matter_n i_o neither_o know_v nor_o plead_v for_o any_o such_o and_o our_o present_a assembly_n be_v both_o appoint_a direct_v by_o and_o submit_v all_o their_o determination_n whole_o to_o the_o parliament_n as_o they_o be_v oblige_v both_o by_o order_n protestation_n covenant_n and_o profess_v they_o ought_v to_o do_v arm_v i_o sufficient_o against_o any_o such_o improbable_a untrue_a surmise_n 6._o to_o the_o six_o quere_n he_o return_v no_o answer_n but_o plain_o yield_v that_o there_o be_v never_o any_o independent_a church_n in_o any_o age_n or_o nation_n whatsoever_o total_o convert_v to_o the_o christian_a faith_n till_o this_o present_a nor_o any_o one_o author_n that_o maintain_v it_o till_o mr_n ainsworth_n a_o separarist_n from_o who_o the_o apologist_n profess_v their_o dissent_n in_o some_o thing_n as_o for_o any_o reverend_a godly_a person_n who_o now_o contend_v for_o this_o new_a model_n who_o piety_n eminecy_n make_v their_o error_n not_o less_o false_a but_o far_o more_o dangerous_a and_o infectious_a though_o i_o reverence_v their_o person_n yea_o judgement_n too_o in_o other_o thing_n yet_o i_o can_v subscrib_n to_o they_o in_o this_o new_a dangerous_a bypath_n which_o be_v not_o yet_o so_o beat_v as_o to_o deserve_v the_o name_n of_o christ_n road-way_n for_o the_o new_a suppose_a light_n discover_v in_o these_o day_n touch_v church-government_n if_o you_o mean_v it_o only_o of_o your_o independency_n which_o you_o borrow_v from_o the_o brownist_n or_o low-countries_n anabaptist_n the_o first_o inventor_n of_o this_o government_n i_o doubt_v when_o bring_v out_o to_o the_o light_n and_o examine_v by_o the_o word_n of_o light_n it_o will_v for_o the_o most_o part_n prove_v but_o twilight_n *_o 23._o if_o not_o darkness_n if_o
themselves_o upon_o all_o occasion_n when_o bring_v before_o they_o without_o demure_v to_o their_o jurisdiction_n 7._o therefore_o christian_a prince_n and_o magistrate_n who_o be_v long_o since_o predict_v to_o become_v nurse_a father_n to_o the_o church_n under_o the_o gospel_n have_v much_o more_o power_n and_o jurisdiction_n in_o church-government_n and_o affair_n within_o their_o own_o dominion_n 3_o for_o that_o it_o appear_v to_o be_v away_o that_o will_v breed_v infinite_a confusion_n disorder_n by_o confound_v v_o 40._o the_o bound_n of_o parish_n rent_v congregation_n family_n and_o most_o relation_n asunder_o and_o give_v way_n to_o every_o sect_n to_o choose_v minister_n erect_v church_n of_o their_o own_o without_o control_v in_o point_n of_o position_n though_o their_o practice_n be_v quite_o contrary_a where_o they_o have_v power_n they_o admit_v no_o other_o kind_n of_o government_n but_o independency_n in_o new-england_n and_o excommunicate_v or_o banish_v those_o who_o will_v not_o submit_v unto_o it_o a_o government_n inconsistent_a with_o royalty_n and_o the_o civil_a government_n and_o so_o none_o of_o christ_n who_o never_o erect_v any_o church-government_n to_o clash_v with_o or_o control_v the_o civil_a 4_o whereas_o he_o pretend_v that_o x_o 31_o person_n of_o one_o family_n or_o parish_n may_v be_v member_n of_o several_a church_n without_o any_o inconvenience_n schism_n or_o distraction_n as_o well_o as_o member_n of_o several_a company_n and_o trade_n and_o therefore_o independency_n be_v no_o occasion_n of_o division_n i_o answer_v 1._o that_o y_o 3._o two_o can_v walk_v peaceable_o and_o love_o together_o unless_o they_o be_v agree_v especial_o in_o matter_n of_o religion_n and_o those_o who_o in_o point_n of_o conscience_n can_v communicate_v or_o agree_v together_o in_o one_o church_n will_v never_o questionless_a accord_n well_o together_o in_o one_o family_n bed_n parish_n kingdom_n as_o experience_n manifest_v 2._o there_o be_v a_o great_a difference_n between_o several_a trade_n and_o hall_n in_o one_o city_n parish_n kingdom_n and_o several_a form_n of_o church-government_n in_o these_o particular_n which_o occasion_n unity_n in_o the_o one_o but_o schism_n in_o the_o other_o 1._o all_o trade_n society_n hold_v one_o another_o lawful_a useful_a necessary_a agreeable_a to_o the_o law_n of_o god_n and_o the_o realm_n without_o dispute_n and_o so_o they_o breed_v no_o contrariety_n of_o opinion_n or_o disaffection_n but_o each_o different_a church_n deem_v the_o other_o unlawful_a and_o in_o no_o way_n of_o christ_n so_o as_o they_o can_v with_o safe_a conscience_n join_v or_o communicate_v together_o and_o thereupon_o they_o sever_v one_o from_o another_o 2._o every_o several_a trade_n and_o society_n even_o in_o their_o very_a trade_n be_v subject_a to_o the_o general_a government_n law_n of_o the_o city_n and_o realm_n wherein_o they_o be_v to_o which_o they_o appeal_v and_o have_v recourse_n upon_o all_o 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church_n and_o government_n as_o these_o trade_n have_v to_o set_v then_o the_o comparison_n upright_o we_o must_v state_n it_o thus_o if_o some_o of_o one_o fraternity_n in_o london_n suppose_v the_o merchant-taylor_n saddler_n mercer_n or_o the_o like_a shall_v fall_v out_o among_o themselves_o and_o one_o will_v have_v one_o form_n of_o government_n another_o another_o and_o thereupon_o divide_v themselves_o into_o several_a conventicle_n and_o petty_a meeting_n in_o corner_n not_o at_o their_o common_a hall_n and_o one_o choose_v one_o government_n master_n or_o warden_n another_o another_o and_o so_o sever_v the_o company_n and_o continue_v independent_a this_o no_o doubt_n will_v prove_v a_o apparent_a schism_n and_o seminary_n of_o infinite_a division_n to_o the_o distraction_n destruction_n of_o the_o whole_a company_n and_o fraternity_n this_o be_v the_o true_a state_n of_o your_o independency_n yea_o mr_n goodwin_n present_v case_n in_o his_o own_o parish_n miserable_o 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colour_n or_o lineament_n who_o guilt_n this_o author_n by_o his_o explanation_n to_o make_v it_o good_a rather_o aggravate_v than_o extenuate_v he_o write_v that_o last_o the_o brethren_n in_o the_o mention_a period_n and_o expression_n reflect_v only_o upon_o the_o generality_n of_o the_o land_n who_o according_a to_o the_o law_n yea_o according_a to_o the_o principle_n of_o all_o reason_n and_o equity_n have_v the_o right_a of_o nominate_v person_n unto_o parliamentary_a trust_n and_o power_n but_o have_v no_o authority_n or_o power_n from_o christ_n ●…o_o nominate_v or_o appoint_v who_o note_n shall_v be_v the_o man_n that_o shall_v order_n the_o affair_n of_o doctrine_n christ_n kingdom_n or_o institute_n the_o government_n of_o his_o church_n these_o be_v that_o secular_a root_n out_o of_o which_o the_o brethren_n conceive_v a_o impossibility_n that_o a_o spiritual_a extraction_n shall_v be_v make_v that_o be_v that_o a_o legitimate_a ecclesiastic_a power_n shall_v according_a 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entreat_v so_o it_o be_v a_o settle_n of_o a_o power_n upon_o the_o elector_n of_o such_o person_n i_o mean_v the_o promiscuous_a
a_o full_a reply_n to_o certain_a brief_a observation_n and_o anti-query_n on_o master_n prynne_n twelve_o question_n about_o church-government_n wherein_o the_o frivolousness_n falseness_n and_o gross_a mistake_v of_o this_o anonymous_a answerer_n ashamed_a of_o his_o name_n and_o his_o weak_a ground_n for_o independency_n and_o separation_n be_v modest_o discover_v refell_v together_o with_o certain_a brief_a animadversion_n on_o mr._n john_n goodwin_n theomachia_n in_o justification_n of_o independency_n examine_v and_o of_o the_o ecclesiastical_a jurisdiction_n and_o right_n of_o parliament_n which_o he_o fight_v against_o by_o william_n prynne_n of_o lincoln_n inn_n esquire_n socrates_n scholasticus_n eccles._n hist._n l._n 5._o c._n 20._o ecclesia_fw-la cum_fw-la semel_fw-la esset_fw-la divisa_fw-la non_fw-la una_fw-la divisione_fw-la acquievit_fw-la sed_fw-la homines_fw-la ab_fw-la se_fw-la mutuò_fw-la aversi_fw-la alter_fw-la ab_fw-la altero_fw-la denuò_fw-la scesserunt_fw-la 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to_o use_v their_o liberty_n and_o several_a gift_n in_o both_o on_o which_o ground_n they_o condemn_v all_o set_a form_n of_o public_a if_o not_o
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but_o to_o all_o particular_a christian_a church_n congregation_n subject_n under_o their_o respective_a jurisdiction_n and_o whether_o the_o whole_a representative_a church_n and_o state_n of_o england_n in_o parliament_n have_v not_o sufficient_a authority_n by_o god_n law_n to_o over-rule_v and_o bind_v all_o or_o any_o particular_a member_n or_o congregatious_a of_o it_o as_o well_o as_o the_o major_a part_n of_o a_o independent_a congregation_n power_n to_o *_o 27._o over-vote_n and_o rule_v the_o lesser_a part_n and_o to_o order_n yea_o bind_v any_o of_o their_o particular_a member_n a_o truth_n so_o clear_a that_o no_o rational_a man_n good_a christian_a or_o subject_n can_v deny_v it_o your_o prime_a argument_n then_o wherewith_o you_o deceive_v poor_a silly_a people_n that_o king_n parliament_n can_v prescribe_v law_n and_o canon_n to_o christ_n himself_o the_o sovereign_a lord_n and_o king_n of_o his_o church_n ergo_fw-la they_o can_v prescrib_n they_o to_o their_o 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of_o allegiance_n his_o late_a protestation_n national_a vow_n and_o covenant_n and_o make_v rom._n 13._o 1_o to_o 6._o 1._o pet._n 2._o 13_o 14._o tit._n 3._o 1._o 1_o tim._n 2._o 1_o 2_o 3._o to_o be_v apocryphal_a the_o confession_n of_o all_o protestant_a church_n heterodox_a and_o deny_v christian_n king_n magistrate_n high_a civil_a power_n to_o be_v christ_n substitute_n vicar_n in_o point_n of_o government_n to_o who_o christ_n have_v delegate_a his_o *_o 6._o kingly_a power_n as_o true_o as_o minister_n be_v his_o deputy_n in_o point_n of_o instruction_n admonition_n to_o who_o he_o have_v bequeathe_v his_o prophetical_a office_n 2._o in_o his_o answer_n to_o my_o second_a quere_n he_o first_o wilful_o misrecite_v it_o than_o infer_v †_o christ_n a_o blind_a obedience_n from_o it_o to_o all_o superior_n command_n be_v they_o never_o so_o unjust_a or_o contrary_a to_o god_n word_n whereas_o my_o question_n speak_v only_o of_o lawful_a decree_n etc._n etc._n 2._o consonant_a to_o god_n word_n and_o to_o the_o civil_a law_n government_n and_o manner_n of_o the_o people_n to_o which_o every_o christian_a in_o point_n of_o conscience_n be_v bind_v to_o submit_v without_o any_o danger_n of_o blind_a obedience_n by_o the_o express_a resolution_n of_o rom._n 13._o 1_o to_o 6._o 1_o pet._n 2._o 14_o 15._o tit._n 3._o 1._o ezra_n 7._o 26._o josh._n 1._o 16_o 17_o 18._o heb._n 13._o 17._o if_o any_o man_n deny_v this_o verity_n he_o must_v renounce_v not_o only_o his_o christianity_n but_o his_o allegiance_n and_o humanity_n too_o but_o suppose_v say_v he_o the_o whole_a parliament_n and_o synod_n shall_v err_v in_o command_v a_o government_n that_o be_v erroneous_a or_o untrue_a must_v we_o then_o submit_v unto_o it_o i_o answer_v first_o such_o a_o oversight_n be_v not_o to_o be_v presume_v before_o it_o be_v actual_o commit_v and_o it_o be_v neither_o *_o 7._o christian_n charitable_a nor_o any_o way_n of_o christ_n thus_o to_o prejudge_v their_o resolution_n second_o if_o the_o decree_n or_o government_n
private_a prayer_n and_o some_o of_o they_o the_o use_n of_o the_o lord_n own_o prayer_n together_o with_o there_o add_v of_o set_a homily_n upon_o which_o very_a ground_n they_o must_v also_o deny_v all_o set_a form_n of_o church-government_n as_o well_o as_o of_o prayer_n and_o preach_v and_o then_o have_v positive_o delineate_v exact_o prove_v the_o model_n of_o this_o pretend_a government_n discipline_n in_o every_o particle_n thereof_o by_o gospel-text_n so_o far_o as_o to_o satisfy_v man_n erroneous_a judgement_n conscience_n herein_o that_o so_o they_o may_v either_o submit_v thereto_o without_o dispute_n or_o propound_v their_o objection_n against_o the_o same_o but_o in_o this_o main_a point_n whereon_o the_o hinge_n of_o the_o controversy_n turn_v the_o respondent_fw-la be_v whole_o silent_a and_o i_o shall_v expect_v his_o answer_n ad_fw-la graecas_fw-la calendas_fw-la only_o lest_o he_o may_v seem_v to_o say_v nothing_o he_o endeavour_v to_o prove_v that_o there_o be_v a_o 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be_v never_o confer_v on_o they_o in_o fine_a if_o there_o be_v any_o such_o express_a unalterable_a divine_a pattern_n of_o church-government_n under_o the_o gospel_n i_o pray_v inform_v i_o why_o it_o be_v not_o as_o punctual_o as_o particular_o describe_v in_o the_o new_a testament_n as_o the_o form_n of_o the_o tabernacle_n of_o its_o material_n with_o all_o the_o service_n ornament_n appurtenance_n of_o it_o and_o of_o the_o temple_n be_v under_o the_o law_n nay_o why_o be_v the_o tabernacle_n alter_v into_o a_o *_o 2._o temple_n different_a from_o it_o and_o why_o do_v the_o second_o *_o 27._o temple_n vary_v from_o the_o first_o and_o that_o in_o the_o self_n 10._o same_o church_n and_o nation_n if_o these_o be_v pattern_n of_o the_o church-government_n under_o the_o gospel_n and_o yet_o vary_v alter_v successive_o in_o this_o manner_n then_o by_o consequence_n the_o government_n discipline_n under_o the_o gospel_n be_v variable_a alterable_a too_o and_o so_o not_o fix_v nor_o 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the_o former_a respect_n and_o that_o the_o independens_fw-la model_n alone_o be_v that_o very_a pattern_n the_o only_a point_n in_o question_n remain_v on_o your_o part_n to_o make_v good_a a_o man_n may_v be_v a_o faithful_a husband_n king_n master_n father_n though_o he_o prescribe_v not_o distinct_a particular_a law_n to_o regulate_v each_o particular_a action_n of_o his_o wife_n subject_n servant_n child_n *_o 40_o let_v all_o thing_n be_v do_v decent_o and_o in_o order_n a_o general_a rule_n for_o church-government_n be_v sufficient_a to_o excuse_v christ_n from_o these_o your_o presumptuous_a reproach_n and_o regulate_v all_o particular_n though_o leave_v indefinite_a as_o well_o as_o this_o general_a rule_n for_o our_o christian_a conversation_n phil._n 1._o 27._o let_v your_o conversation_n be_v as_o become_v the_o gospel_n of_o christ_n and_o this_o other_o for_o our_o speech_n eph._n 4._o 29._o let_v no_o corrupt_a communication_n come_v out_o of_o your_o mo●…_n but_o that_o 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may_v as_o well_o yea_o more_o proper_o have_v