Selected quad for the lemma: christian_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
christian_n	church_n	jew_n	synagogue_n	1,486	5	11.0980	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A78034	Vindiciæ veritatis: truth vindicated against calumny. In a briefe answer to Dr. Bastwicks two late books, entituled, Independency not Gods ordinance, with the second part, styled the postscript, &c. / By Henry Burton, one of his quondam-fellow-sufferers.	Burton, Henry, 1578-1648.	1645 (1645)	Wing B6177; Thomason E302_13; ESTC R200279	28,751	40

we not all taken the solemne Covenant to reform our selves and others according to the word of God And to endeavour to our power to extirpate and roote out all Popery Prelacy Idolatry and Superstition out of this Kingdome And the time of this first gathering was it not then when the old service and ceremonies were in use And who hath gathered these Churches Wee Who are we that you should thus charge us As Peter and John answered Why looke yee so on us So why doe yee impute that to us which is onely to be attributed to the Gospel of the grace of God whereby our very Protestants are wonne from their old superstitions and will-worship and from under the yoake of humane formes in the matters of Christs Kingdome So as when they heare Christ is the onely King of his Kingdome the onely Law-giver of his Church and his Word the onely law and rule of all Church-government and all this demonstrated in the Word of God which they have taken a solemne Covenant in all things to follow doe you reproach us for being a people who are ready to obey Christ so soone as wee heare of him who alone is to be heard in all things whatsoever he shall say unto us And for Churches doe you Brother limit Churches to Parishes What if you finde so many hundred Parishes in England whose Inhabitants both Ministers and people are all Malignants or popishly-affected Will you have those Parishes to be so many Churches and those popish Malignants so many believers Were not this to set up Ecclesiam malignantium or Churches malignant which are no way militant but against the power of Religion and the peace of the civill State Or if there be found some one or two in each of those Parishes that have the love of Christ in them and are truly godly and whose soules are grieved to communicate with Sodome Will you not allow God to send an Angel his Messenger with a word to call them forth And doe you not know that the ancient Church of the Jewes was then a Church when the Apostles by their preaching gathered a Church out of it A Christian Church out of the Jewes Synagogue I say you but we gather Christian Churches out of Christian Churches Surely then it is Gods word that calleth Christians to come into a more reformed Church-way out of wayes more corrupt and lesse reformed Nor doe wee separate from the Churches as Christian as you call them but from their corruptions separating the precious from the vile as from something Antichristian But you will say Now are the Parishes and Churches purged no Service-book now no Hierarchy no such thing and yet wee select and choose the most principall into a Church-fellowship peculiar unto our selves To which I answer Though the Service-book Hierarchy c. be taken away yet the Parishes are not so purged of them but that most mens hearts are still hankering after that Egyptian-service and Task-masters Again all those that professe to be come off from those things yet are not resolved what Religion to take to but are ready to take up as themselves say and do what Religion men will set up over them not looking to what the Scripture prescribes and commands so as it remains that those who embrace the Word and preferre Christs Decrees before mans are those principall men whom not we but the Word of Christ doth call forth select and choose voluntarily to joyn in Church-fellowship and this not so peculiar to our selves but that when a right Reformation is set up in the severall places where they dwell they may enjoy the pure Ordinances there as I have shewed in my Vindication And if you examine who they be that have joyned themselves unto the Lord either of this parish or of other you shall find them to be for their outward estate in comparison of others none of those principall men you speak of But say you wee admit of none into our society but such as shall enter in by a private Covenant Now the very name of Covenant is become a bug-bear to many But it is mightily mistaken as I have shewed in my Vindication For it is nothing else but a declaration of a free assent and voluntary agreement to walk in the wayes of Christ with the Church whereof they are members and to perform all service of love one to another submitting themselves to the Order and Ordinance of Christ in that Church respectively So that it is not the name of Covenant that is so terrible but the Order of Church-communion and this to those only that having used to walk without a yoak as the Scripture calls sons of Belial love not to come under the yoak of Christ then which to a willing bearer nothing is more easie and sweet But lastly you say they must be allowed of by the consent and approbation of all the Congregation And I pray what harm in that Nay doth it not stand with very good reason that they who are to walk together should first be agreed together As Amos 3. 3. Can two walk together except they be agreed If therefore any one of the Congregation can object any thing as a just cause of non-admittance of a member he ought to shew it not only for his own peace but the peace of the Church Therefore to object such things as these doth it argue a spirit favouring of such a holy humility as becomes those who affect the society of Saints And when the whole church gives approbation in this kind it is both to the church and the member admitted a comfort and withall a discharge of their duty in a provident care for preventing inconveniences and scandals seeing it is easier for a guest to be kept out then to be cast out Thus much of your Question in generall which because I have met with it in the severall branches I shall need to say the lesse to those Queries which you derive from it And in truth they are rather captions then Queries and the first is answered in my former stating of the Question For the second to know those well that are to be admitted Abundans ca●tela non nocet In things weighty we cannot be too wary nor do we so much look at circumstances in conversion as the substance The third for the consent of the Congregation it is answered before So also the fourth about the Covenant The fifth for the power of the keys wee tie it not to womens girdles The sixth and last I answer that those Churches which are for matter and form true Churches and are governed according to Christs Word do set up Christ as King upon his Throne And for such as are otherwise let them consider whether they do as they ought set up Christ as King upon his Throne You proceed I have say you specified the things without any spirit of bitternesse In deed this your first book as we finde by tracing your steps

to heare the word in the Temple and though they wanted a convenient place so spacious as wherein to breake bread or receive the Lords Supper all together so as they were constrained to sever themselves into divers companies in severall private houses to communicate yet this severing was not a dividing of the Church into so many distinct formall Churches or Church-bodies being but so many branches of one and the same particular Church which though you call so many Congregations yet properly so many Churches they were not And therefore you never read The Churches at or in Jerusalem but The Church at Jerusalem And this no Nationall Church neither witnesse those Churches in Judea Gal. 1. 22. Whereupon I answer to your Argument and first to your Proposition I deny that those Congregations you name are so many Churches properly so called having their distinct Officers and members united into one Church-body respectively This I put you to prove And without proving it your 11 or 12 shee●… spent about this Argument prove to be meere wast paper And for your Assumption that the Church at Jerusalem as being a prime Apostolicke Church is therefore a patterne for all succeeding Churches and therefore for a Classicall Presbytery over many Churches you must first prove your Proposition as before that there were many Churches in Jerusalem constituted in their distinct formes and bodies Secondly it being no more then one entire particular Church and not any Diocesan or Provinciall Church or the Presbytery thereof Classicall as you would beare us in hand it is a patterne for all particular Churches in succeeding ages and yet by your favour not so perfect a patterne as no Apostolicke Church besides it should also come in to make up the patterne compleat For we are necessarily to take all the Churches in the New Testament together to make up one entire perfect Church patterne For in the Church at Jerusalem we finde election of Officers but we finde not expressed that part of Discipline for casting out of corrupt members as in the Church of Corinth and so in the rest For the Churches were not brought forth to full perfection in one day Their very constitution had a graduall growth The Church at Jerusalem had not at first Deacons till there was a necessitie and the largenesse of the Church required seven Deacons which is no patterne for every Church to have seven Deacons The summe is to make up a compleat patterne not onely the Church at Jerusalem but that of Corinth of Ephesus those of Gal●tia that of Philippi and the rest are to be conferred together that each may cast in its shot to make up the full reckoning that so what is not expressed in one may be supplied by the rest to make one entire platforme For the Scripture consists of many Books as so many members in one body one member cannot say to another * I have no need of thee Againe the Church at Jerusalem if it must be a patterne for all other Churches then in this that all other Churches must be subject to some one Church because Act. 15. things in question were there debated and determined and sent to other Churches to be observed But for as much as that Church at that time in those things was infallibly guided by the Holy Ghost wherewith the Apostles there were inspired in which respect their resolutions were with Authoritie It pleased the Holy Ghost and us that which no particular Church since the Apostles could ever say it followeth that the Church then at Jerusalem remaines not in all things a patterne for other Churches for a patterne must be in all things imitable and perfect Lastly for Appeales so much agitated and pressed I have said enough before and elsewhere as in my Vindication to vindicate the right use of that in point of Church matters And so I passe briefly from your first Question to your second which is concerning the manner of gathering of Churches and admitting members and Officers Viz Whether Ministers of the Gospel may out of already congregated Assemblies of believers select and choose the most principall of them into a Church-fellowship peculiar unto themselves and admit of none into their societie but such as shall enter in by a private covenant and are allowed of by the consent and approbation of all the Congregation This is your generall stating of your Question and out of the wombe thereof there doth issue a numerous brood no lesse then six Queries or if you will to usurpe your owne usuall expression so many sucking Questions hanging at the dugs of their damme your generall Question For answer to all in their order But before I answer let mee premise thus much Brother I well see and that without spectacles that among all those Independents whom you so familiarly hurle stones at and cast up dust yea durt in their faces I am not the least object in your eye as by many palpable passages in your Booke doth appeare And therefore I shall crave leave that I may have the favour to represent and personate all those my Brethren the Ministers whom Giantlike you revile and challenge and warre against under the name of Independents as taking this take upon my selfe alone in answering this your Question about gathering of Churches First then to your generall stating of the Question You say it concernes the manner of gathering Do you imply here the lawfulnesse of the matter of gathering by questioning onely the manner Your words may seeme to import so much But I will not quarrell a word I come to your Question viz. Whether Ministers of the Gospel c. Surely if any then Ministers of the Gospel may gather Churches and that for two reasons first because by the Gospel the Ministry thereof Churches are gathered to Christ Secondly because we read that the Apostles and other Ministers of the Gospel have by their Ministry gathered Churches Therefore no question but if any then Ministers of the Gospel may gather Churches to Christ I but out of already congregated Assemblies of Believers to select and choose the most principall of them Indeed this is something to purpose But tell me Brother who is it that doth this You apply it to us all and to me in particular But I deny that I so doe and I dare say the like for others And can you prove all those Parishes out of which Churches are so gathered as you say to be Assemblies of believers But they all professe to be Christians True so doe all Papists Ergo are all Popish Parishes Assemblies of Believers So as if Ministers of the Gospel should by their preaching convert sundry Papists of severall Popish Parishes to become a Church of Christ should they gather such a Church out of so many Assemblies of believers But say you wee gather Churches out of Assemblies of believing Protestants Why Brother doe you not know this to be a time of Reformation And have

of admittance into Church-fellowship could stand with the deniall but necessarily implies a confession of Christs Kingly office in its highest degree Pag. 116. You tell us that our gathering of Churches hath no example in Scripture and as for Christs Disciples they were all sent to gather in the lost sheep of the house of Israel they went not to gather in converted amongst converted men c. Now wee cannot have a more pregnant and more warrantable example in all Scripture then this which you here alledge against us Christs Disciples gathered Christian Churches out of the Church of the Jews nor can you deny but the Jews were a Church when the Disciples gathered churches out of it Those Churches in Judea Gal. 1. 22. were gathered out of the Church of the Jewes and that Church of the Jewes generally believed that the Messias or Christ was to come And if they were a Church when many being converted were gathered out of it then much more Churches may be gathered out of Nations or Kingdomes of the world though for their generall profession of Christianity every such Nation or Kingdome be respectively called a church though the new Testament knowes no such church and then not of divine constitution as that of the Jews was even when churches Christian were gathered out of it And brother prove unto us that such as you call a Nationall Church is a church of divine institution shew us an example of a Nationall Church in all the new Testament otherwise you do but weave the Spiders web But wee say you gather converted men from among converted men and so pick out of others folds and flocks the best and fattest sheep This you do familiarly cast in our dish and yet it is never the fatter Now in this wee may justly demand of you to prove that those whom you call converted men from among whom wee gather churches be indeed so converted as they should be when as yet they come not up close to the rule of Reformation Gods Word as thereby to endeavour the setting up of Christ without waiting on men as without whom Gods Word is not a sufficient rule and as on whom wee must necessarily depend for the form and law of Reformation And yet wee deny not but many such may be godly though otherwise they are not as yet throughly convinced of this kingly government of Christ which we endeavour after nay let me go a little higher for as much as this is an undeniable yea and prime principle in Divinity that the Scripture is the only rule of faith and of worship and Church-government and this rule is no Monopoly to one man but that all and every man hath a power and priviledge to repair to this Law and Testimony to do all things according to this Word And seeing wee have all bound our selves by solemn Covenant to reform our selves and those under our charge according to the Word of God yea and every one to go before other in this Reformation tell mee now brother were it not a matter worth the while for our reverend and learned Assembly seriously to take it into debate whether the generall tying up of men to wait necessarily on the Synod for its finall resolution about Church-government be not an usurpation upon our Christian liberty and a diminution at least of the authority and sufficiency of Scripture and so consequently be not a trenching upon a fundamentall heresie as also an inhibition restraining every man in his place Ministers Masters c. from setting upon the work of Reformation and so necessitating a violation of our Covenant or a dangerous retarding of the work bringing in a sleepy carelesnesse upon mens spirits to inquire at Gods Oracle and so preparing a way for blind obedience I leave to the consideration of the wisest But in the interim to return to your Converts Do you hold all them to be converts from among whom churches are gathered Do you not allow of a difference to be put Are there not a number of both ignorant and scandalous that are not fit to come to the Lords Table See the Directory Or do you take the greatest number in England to be godly and truly converted Or are there not trow you many Parishes in England where perhaps but a few true converts are to be found And how few in comparison truly godly and faithfull Ministers are to be found for every Parish under who●e Pastorall charge two or three sheep may safely and comfortably feed among so many Goats yea perhaps Wolves Or do you make every parish to be a Church You may do well herein to deal plainly with us whether you would have so many inhabitants as are in every Parish to be so many communicants For so it seems you would have it For pag. 117. you say in the Churches of Corinth Galatia Colosse were many that walked disorderly taught false doctrine and heresies and made Schismes yet the Apostles did not bid the Christians to separate themselves from the communion and assemblies of the Saints and from the Ordinances for these mens causes c. But you may know those churches though in part accidentally corrupt yet were essentially and in their originall constitution pure and holy churches and so were never your Parochiall churches they never had a right divine constitution but meerly humane and politicall And therefore all your argumentation a dispari falls to ground and beats it self into a meer spume But pag. 118. you plead such Ministers and Churches to be true where the truth of Christ is preached received and professed If you mean the whole truth of Christ it is well But do not you know that there are three speciall visible marks of a true visible Church The Gospel purely preached the Sacraments duly administred and Discipline rightly practised all which marks together the Church of England for ought I know is yet to seek For to speak nothing here of the materialls of a true particular visible Church as visible Saints nor of the form of it so many members united into one Church-body and fellowship according to the Gospel which you can handly shew us in any of your Parochiall Congregations I will only ask you What particular visible Church you are a member of you may choose what Parish you please in England Next I ask you What Discipline you have in that your church and whether a man complaining of you to your Congregation or to your Minister for wrongs done by you and for your scandalous walking he shall find so much Discipline there as to convent you before them and justly charging you for walking scandalously to the great offence and shame of the very name of Christian Religion you shall thereupon be brought under Ecclesiasticall censure so as to have the scandall removed and the offence satisfied Good now tell me what church either Parochiall or Classicall I should go unto For suppose I have a complaint against you for which I demand