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A87828	Seven questions about the controversie betweene the Church of England, and the Separatists and Anabaptists, breifely [sic] discussed. 1. Whether is the Church of England as it now stands a true church? 2. Whether the Church of England be a right nationall church? 3. Whether are the ministers in the Church of England sent of God, and so are true ministers or not? 4. Whether is the baptisme of infants a true and lawfull baptisme or no? 5. Whether it be lawfull to be rebaptized or not? 6. Whether it is lawfull to separate from all the publike ordinances and Christian assemblies in our English church, because there are some defects in discipline, and in other things amongst us? 7. Whether is it necessarie to demolish our churches (steeple-houses as the Separatists call them,) and to build them in other places, because they were built by idolators for idolatrous worship, were abused with images, and dedicated to saints? By Immanuel Knutton, preacher of Gods word at Beeston in Nottingham shire [sic].	Knutton, Immanuel, d. 1655.	1645 (1645)	Wing K744; Thomason E25_20; ESTC R4217	31,540	40

the Infaint in Baptisme seeing every one must live and be saved by his owne faith Ans Those phrases Teach and Baptize Repent and Beleeve and bee Baptized c. are meant of such who were of riper yeares and made profession of the Christian faith whom they gathered out of the Heathens by the preaching of the Gospel In like manner if we were to preach the Word amongst the Pagans and Infidells who knew not Christ beleeve not in him heard not of him wee ought not to Baptize them nor their children till they professe faith in Christ and come to know him But now in this Church of England all our people professe themselves Christians and say they beleeve in Christ and hope to be saved by him though in their workes many prophane Protestants and licentious Christians deny Christ opposing the power of godlinesse yet having a temporary faith they are intituled and called Christians and have right to Baptisme as well as the Children of many prophane Jewes had to Circumcision Secondly I say the Parents faith may benefit the Infant so much as to bring it under the compasse of the Covenant and to make it a partaker of the signe and seale of the Covenant Rom. 4.11 He saith Circumcision was a Seale of the righteousnesse of the faith children we know were circumcised what faith could they expresse therefore the faith of their parents applying the righteousnesse of Christ to themselves by their Circumcision it made their children to bee borne Jewes by nature Gal. 2.15 Next this their faith assured them that God would be a God to their seede according to that promise Gen. 17.7 In as good stead doth faith stand Christian Parents in now about the Baptisme of their children for Baptisme is a clearer seale of righteousnesse then Circumcision was Thirdly We reade the Apostles Baptized whole families Acts 16.15.33 Acts 18.8 1 Cor. 1.16 and it is probable there were children amongst them Reas 4 Because 1 Cor. 10.2 The Apostle making their passing under the cloude and through the red sea a tipe of Baptisme he saith they were all Baptized through the conduct or Ministery of Moses in the cloud and sea now there were sixe hundred thousand footmen Exod. 12.37 besides very many young infants and small children and they were all baptized tipically very well yea much more may Infants of Christian Parents now under the Gospel have Baptisme conferred upon them in the Truth and Antitipe for the Truth or Antitipe is larger and of greater consequence then the Type The Israelites their passing into the bottome of the sea signified our buriall with Christ in Baptime their comming out of the sea our rising up to newnesse of life Rom. 6.4 So the Apostle 1 Pet. 3.21 Makes Noahs Arke a type of our Baptisme for saith he the like figure whereunto even baptisme c. as if he had said Answerable unto which preservation of the eight persons in Noahs family by water is the benefit which we receive by baptisme which doth also now save us by and in applying unto us the power of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ and become effectuall unto us not in respect of the outward element which onely washeth off the filth of the flesh but in respect of the inward efficasie of the grace thereby represented and exhibited whereby the conscience is both quieted assured of pardon and favour and is there upon enabled to treate for and expect mercy from God and reconciliation with him Object But Christ was not Baptized untill he was thirty yeares of age Luke 3.21 22 23. Ans True he was baptized 1 to fulfill all righteousnesse Mat. 3.15 that is to accomplish in all due obedience all that part of Gods will which concerne him 2 To confirme Johns baptisme doctrine ministry to commend and confirme to us the use of baptisme by his example 3. That he might sanctifie our baptisme to us and seale up this fellowship with us 4 To signifie that he was sent to be baptized namely to die and to wash away our sins with his blood Luke 12.50 5 That the truth might answer the type or figure for as the high Priest at his inauguration had his whole body washt with water the sacerdotall garment was put upon him he was set in the sight of all the people and oyle was powred upon his head Exod. 29.4 5 6 so Christ being to enter upon the publike function of the Ministry to preach the Gospel he would be baptized that he might be ordained and confirmed by the publike testimony of the whole Deity But this example binds not us in respect of the time of his baptisme for if it did then Ministers must be baptized at their entrance into the Ministry then none might enter into the Ministry till they be thirty yeares old nor bee baptized till they come to that age so then Christ entring upon his publike function at that age did answer the legall type of the Priests and Levites who ordinarily were chosen to the publike service of the tabernacle at thirty yeares of age Numb 4.3.23.30 c. He did not by his example binde us to receive baptisme at that age Reas 5 Because Baptisme hath beene effectuall to produce mortification and vivificate in many as divers good people can witnesse which it should not have done if God had not approved of Paedobaptisme QVEST. V. Whether is it lawfull to be rebaptized or not I Answer that if one were Baptized in the name of God in generall without particular explication and recitation of the three persons be not mentioned but omitted in Baptisme it s not right and lawfull baptisme or if one was baptized of those heretickes who delivered not the right doctrine of the Trinity such as were the Marcianites Arrians and Pneumatomachi it s not right and lawfull Baptisme because the essentiall forme of Baptisme is not observed which according to Christs institution must be in the name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost but if Baptisme be rightly administred according to the institution of Christ and the forme prescribed of him then rebaptization is unlawfull for these reasons Reas 1 First because there is no command for rebaptization as there is for the frequent receiving of the Lords Supper 1 Cor. 11.26 and the Apostle saith there is but one Baptisme Eph. 4.5 Reas 2 2. Because Circumcision was not iterated to which Baptisme succeeded Reas 3 3. Because Baptisme is a Sacrament of Regeneration but it s enough to be once borne againe and to bee entered into the Church of God as one is borne naturally but once so the spirituall birth is but once Object But many who were baptized in their infancy were never truly borne againe Ans Likewise many who are baptized in their elder yeares are never truly regenerate but are notorious Hypocrites as Simon Magus and others Reas 4 4. Because the strength and fruit of baptisme lasteth all the life of a true Christian and a Christian may yea

Prophets frequently speake of it Isa 60. Isa 61. Isa 62. and 63. and 64. c. Jer. 30. Jer. 31. Jer. 33.12 13. Ezek. 34.25 26 27 28 29. Ezek. 36.24 Ezek. 37.25 Likewise we find these Prophets speaking of Nationall Churches amongst the Gentiles which should come and joyne with the Church of the Jewes Isa 49 23. Isa 60.16 Isa 19 24.25 Doubtlesse there shall be many famous Nationall Churches after the conversion of the Jewes which I hope drawes on fast And when those dayes are come there will be more famous National Churches then ever the old Jewish Church was Zach. 14.20.21 Object But the Church of England wants those Church Officers mentioned Eph. 4.11 which Christ left to his Church Answer Can there be no Church no Christians without them What shall we say of the Families of the Patriarkes of the Jewish Congregations under the Law yea of Christ and his Apostles Either deny them to have beene visible Churches or shew us these distinct Officers amongst them looke upon the Church since Christ was there not a worthy Church of God in Jerusalem from the time of Christs ascention till the Election of the 7 Deacons those hundred and twenty Disciples Acts 1.15 And 3000. Converts Acts 2.41 those continuall troopes that flocked to the Apostles were they no true Church Let the Apostles and Evangelists be Pastors and Doctors where were their Elders Deacons Releevers Afterwards when Deacons were ordained yet what newes is their of Elders till Acts 11.30 Yet that of Jerusalem was more forward then the rest we will not as the Separatists are wont argue from Scriptures negatively no proofe yet much probability is in St. Pauls silence He writes to Rome Corinth and other Churches Those his divine letters in a sweet Christian civillity salute even ordinary Christians and would he have utterly passed by all mention of these Church Officers amongst his so precise acknowledgement of lesser titles in others if they had beene ere this ordained Rom. 1.8 1 Cor. 15. 1 Thes 1.7 Gal. 4.15 All these notwithstanding all this were true Churches famous forward and exemplary Onely the Phillippian Church is stiled with Bishops and Deacons but no Elders besides them Phil. 1.2 But through Gods great mercy we have many who conscionably teach and feed by teaching call them what you please Lecturers Parsons Vicars c. If they preach Christ truely upon true inward abilities upon a sufficient if not perfect outward vocation such are Pastors and Doctors allowed by Christ we stand not upon circumstances and appendancies of the fashions of ordination manner of choice attire titles maintenance but if for substance these be no true Pastors and Doctors Christ never had any in his Church since the Apostles left the Earth QVEST. III. Whether are the Ministers in the Church of England sent of God and so are true Ministers or not Ans I Affirme they be true Ministers of Jesus Christ sent of God into his Vineyard to build up his Church and People as living stones upon Christ the cheif corner stone Reas 1 Because we have many Godly learned and painefull Ministers as well qualified for that worthy function as any in the world who are exceedingly dilligent in the excercise of their gifts endeavouring to convert and confirme soules to the utmost of their ability now their ability and fidility argues that God hath sent them Rom. 10.15 Jer. 23.21 22. As if he had said I gave no commission to these Prophets yet they ran as of their owne heads c. If they had received directions and creands from me and had delivered them accordingly to my people they should have laboured to have turned them from their leud courses Where the Lord shewes that the conscionable and able preaching of his word proves that he sends such about that worke Reas 2 Because That God hath blessed the labours of the Ministers of this Church to the conversion of many and to their confirmation in the truth which thing God would not have done if he had not sent them Jer. 23.32 1 Cor. 9.2 Yea. the Separatists themselves received their first Illumination Faith and other graces from the word preached by us before they made a divorcement from us Object But the Ministers of the Church of England were called by the Prelates whose calling is Antichristian from the Pope therefore they are not the Ministers of Jesus Christ Ans I grant that the calling of the Lordly Prelates as they are described in the second Article of the Covenant exercise their jurisdiction in their Courts by their Substitutes is Antichristian yet the Godly and Learned Ministers of this Church called by them are true Ministers called of God for these reasons Reas 1 Because the Prelates are Christians and so their calling of us is not altogether unlawfull with the Separates every Vlebeian Artificer hath power to elect and ordaine by vertue of his Christian profession the act of the worthiest standing for all how can they deny this right to persons in some measure qualified for this worke Reas 2 Because The Prelates are learned men and Divines many of them are judicious and orthodox in judgement against popish Heresies and have written and preacht substantially against them which yet I speake not in favour of their calling for I looke upon it as Antichristian and directly opposing Christs words in Mat. 20.25 26. Reas 3 Because The Prelates in their ordination command us to preach the Gospel truely now ● we be not rightly called because called from them then one of these things of both these must necessarily follow Either it is unlawfull for the Prelates to command us to Preach the Gospel or it is unlawfull for us to preach the Gospel as they command us I cannot see how the former can be unlawfull because their charge and command to Ministers is no waies Antichristian but Christian for they command us to preach the Gospel not as Popish Prelates but as Christians and Learned Divines now good counsell is worthy to be followed from whomsoever it comes though from an enemie I see not how the latter is unlawfull if one be qualified w●th fidelity and ability he ought to preach the word though the Prelates licenced and commanded him because as yet here was no other outward way of calling Ministers to preach in this Church of England appointed and established by authority I heard of an Usurer in this Kingdome who had gotten very much money by usury and unjust gaine he made it his only calling which doubtlesse is unlawfull it pleased God to convince him of the unlawfullnesse of his usury he made restitution largely to his debtors and sent his servant with restitution money to divers of them though his course of usury was unlawfull yet it was lawfull yea needfull for him to command his servant to carrie home restitution money to such as borrowed of him and it was lawfull for his servant to obey him in this of the like nature is

lambe of God which taketh away the sinnes of the world Verse 4 Then said Paul John verily baptized with the baptisme of repentance saying unto the people that they should beleeve on him which should come after him that is on Christ Jesus Paraph. Then said Paul Iohn verily as the outward Minister of Baptisme baptized you with water to the remission of sinnes together with his baptisme teaching the people that they should beleeve in that Jesus Christ which should come after him so as his baptisme was true and perfect yet such as was not accompanied attended with these miraculous gifts which now since the full glorification of Christ are bestowed upon men Verse 5 When they heard this they were baptized in the name of the Lord Iesus Paraph. Whiles therefore Iohn taught them thus and made this holy comentary upon his said baptisme they that heard it in receiving his baptisme were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Verse 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them the holy Ghost came on them and they spake with tongues and prophesied Paraph. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them as having before beene fully and duely baptized the Holy Ghost came downe upon them in miraculous gifts and they spake with tongues and prophesied So that here is no ground for rebaptization in this place these twelve doubtlesse had received the Holy Ghost though not in that miraculous and extraordinary manner as they did after for Paul in his question saith they beleeved now to beleeve is a fruit of the Spirit Therefore the Separatists doe very ill oposing our Baptizing of Infants for in Scripture we finde no examples wherein Infants of Christian Parents were denyed baptisme but examples we find wherein they had it conferred upon them 1 Cor. 10.2 as I proved before and Lydia with all her houshould was baptized likewise wee finde no negative precept inhibiting paedobaptisme neither can it bee proved truely that Christs command Teach and Baptize c. doth exclude infants from baptisme now if their bee neither example nor precept against paedobaptisme then such as oppose it doe ill for they follow those pestilent hereticks called Annabaptists in Germany who sprung up there when the light of the Gospel first began to shine not very long since about Luthers time this their opinion being but new and upstart there is good reason they should disclaime it and be humbled for it QVEST. VI. Whether is it lawfull to separate from all the publike Ordinances and Christian assemblies in our English Church because there are some defects in Discipline and in other things amongst us Ans I Conceive it is absolutely unlawfull to relinquish Gods holy Ordinances and the Assemblies of godly Christians in this Church of England because of our mixt congregations and because of some defects in our Discipline Reas 1 Because Jesus Christ leaves us not for our defects and weakenesses but continues with us and I hope will doe for ever It appeares Christ dwells amongst us because hee hath setled his sacred word amongst us sent us many godly and learned teachers and where these are teaching the truth there is Christ Mat. 28.20 Also he hath planted his Sacraments in our Church he hath converted many soules in our land to himself by the faithfull dispensation of his Ordinances but where all this is there Christ is resident Exod. 20.24 such a Church is the spouse of Christ and whilst she holds the foundation of Religion retaining the substantiall grounds of it agreable to the analogie of faith she is spoused to Christ but if shee reject the foundation of religion she is an harlot as the Church of Rome is Revelat. 2. there Christ walkes amongst the seven golden candlestickes viz. Those seven Churches of Asia yet some of them had great defects Now till Christ leaves us it is unlawfull for them to leave us and account our Church an harlot such as do thus do through the sides of our Church wound Christ strike at him and dishonour him Luke 10.16 Reas 2 Because in separating from our Assemblies and Ordinances you prevent the exercise of many an holy duty which you might ought to have performed amongst us Heb. 10. And let us consider one another to provoke unto love good workes but some might aske how must we performe this duty he answers verse 25. not forsaking the Assembling of our selves together c. here the Apostles impugneth the supercidiousnesse of the selfe conceited Jewes who out of contempt of the Gentiles deserted the Christian Assemblies as if he had said notwithdrawing and utterly separating our selves from the assemblies of Gods people upon conceit of the peculiar rights prerogatives which God hath given the Jewes above the Gentiles and standing upon the high tearmes of difference as the manner of some is c. Reas 3 Because its the high way to the sinne against the Ghost as is very cleare Heb. 10.25.26 for such as despise and desert our Christian Assemblies and Gods holy ordinances amongst us for some defects and imperfections which doe not alienate Christ his presence love from us are in the ready way to fall to blaspheme the truth and to sinne unpardonable Mr. Paget of Amsterdam in his preface to his booke called An arrow against the Separation of the Brownists complaines of them thus It is apparent that three or foure hundred of the Brownists have brought forth more Apostate Anabaptists and Arrians sometimes in one yeare then 10000 members of the reformed Dutch Church in this City have done in ten yeares or more though tempted and compassed about with seducers as much as any other Now the Arrian heresie is fearefull and odious in the yeare 324 sprang up Arrins a Presbyter in Alexandria who denyed that the Sonne of God was begotten of the substance of the Father but said that he was a creature and that there was a time wherein the Sonne was not The Anabaptists taught that infants should not bee baptized untill they came to perfect age and can give a confession of their owne faith Next that Christ tooke not flesh and blood of the Virgin but brought it from heaven Next that God not onely revealeth his will by the written word but also by visions and dreames Next that that Church is not a true Church wherein there is any Spot or wrinckle Next that the Office of Magistrates under the New Testament is not a calling approved of God Thomas Muntzerus one of the first Fathers of this Sect made a great insurrection though the Anabaptists teach that warres are unlawfull for Christians but was overcome and beheaded in the yeare 1533. Iohannes Leidensis troubled the City of Munster but was taken and condemned to death he called himselfe King of new Ierusalem David Georgius an Anabaptist in Holland said that he was Christ the Messias and Saviour of the world Thus wee see when men disdaine the Assemblies of Saints for some defects God leaves them to

fall into fearefull errours and heresies through the pride of their hearts Reas 4 Because it argues an extreame height of pride such as separate from all the ordinances are puft up with ambitious spirits like unto those in Isa 65.5 such would make themselves seeme holier then Christ and his Apostles who went and preached amongst the prophane Jewes and Heathens and though some of these seeme humble yet their seeming depth of humility may be a reall height of pride they may not lawfully separate from us except Christ also did whilest hee stayes with us they should doe the like Reas 5 Because this doctrine of Separation crosseth the judgements and practises of the godly Saints in all ages it is but of late invention those that seeme to have beene the Separatists their predecessors in former ages were the Donatists 400. yeares after Christ Donatus Bishop in Numidia drew many after him and had many favourers called by divers names Parmeniani Rogatistae Cirtenses Maximianistae Circumciliones the worst branch of this roote for these would burne or drowne themselves and account this kind of death Martyrdome the maine heresie of the Donatists was 1 that the true Catholike Church was no where else to bee found but onely in that corner of Africke wherein they themselves dwelt 2 that baptisme was not effectuall except it had beene ministred by one of their society against these heretiks did Augustine Bishop of Hippo contend with mighty grace the Separatists of these times are in some measure like them but in some points they exceede the Donatists Mr. Robinson and Mr. Johnson in one part confesse this their Separation to bee late and new but in the nature and causes thereof to be as ancient as the Gospel the former I grant the latter I deny for we never read that the Saints in Scripture separated from those assemblies where God was truely worshipped in the old Testament Elkanah frequented the publike Assemblies at Shiloh 1 Samuel 1.3 though there were more vile abuses of the Lords ordinances then amongst us in England 1 Sam. 2.22 and in that time betweene the Prophet Malachy Christs Nativity we reade that Zachary executed his Office Luke 1.8.9 and did not Separate from the Lords ordinances though there were fearefull abuses amongst them as farre as I remember in the Old Testament Caine was the first that separated from Gods holy servants and service Gen. 4.16 and Iudas in the new 1 Cor. 11.33.34 he wisht them not to separate but to reforme their horrible abuses of the Lords Supper Reas 6 Because to separate from us is to separate from the sweete presence of Christ in his Ordinances and from the fellowship of holy Saints as any be in the world which to mee seemes unlawfull Reas 7 Because the Separatists themselves had their first illumination in our Church by the word taught amongst us they made profession amongst us before they left us now that ministry of ours which first converted them doubtlesse through God assistance is able to build them up and they are bound to respect our Ministry before other because it first converted them 1. Cor. 4.14 15. this their separation is an ill requitall to their spirituall fathers Object Though we leave your Godly Saints and Ordinances yet wee have the society of other holy Saints and the Ordinances in purity Answ I beleeve there be amongst the Separatists some godly Saints but this is no signe of a Saint to depart from our Church for some defects in it it is altogether without example or ground from the Scripture and is rather a signe of a proud Pharisee doe not thinke that all your fellow Separatists are upright and sincere there bee as discembling Hypocrites amongst them as any are amongst us neither expect such edification from the ordinances dispensed amongst you as from the Ordinances amongst us because God gives you not now extraordinary gifts as hee did to the Apostles and your lay preaching wants those eminent gifts of learning which are gifts of the spirit 1 Cor. 12.4.10.11 which the ministry of this English Church enjoyeth yea some who followed the Separation a while but afterwards returned from it to our publike assemblies againe said that the Ministry amongst the Separatists is a very fruitlesse dead and heartlesse Ministry that they will often disagree about the interpretation of some places of Scripture and sometimes none of them hit upon the right sense whereas if they had a man of learning and judgement amongst them hee would soone resolve their doubts and prevent that unedifying confusion that is too much amongst them I desire you of the Separation to consider that place well Heb. 13.7 whose faith follow now those godly teachers who instrumentally converted you were not of your faith but did beleeve this English Church to bee a true Church wherein the Lord dwells and they joyned with us in Gods service I desire you likewise to tell mee ingenuously whether you have heard the voyce of Christ sensibly felt his spirit working upon your hearts more by the Ministry of this English Church than or by the Ministry of the Separation time was when you would have melted in prayer amongst us you would have trembled at Gods word in our Congregations ye would have obeyed from the heart that forme of Doctrine we delivered your hearts would have burned with zeale in holy performances amongst us you seemed to be inflamed with precious love to Christ to his ordinances and to his servants doe you finde the ministry of the Separation working these effects in you I hardly beleeve you do Object But your Ministers being called by the Prelates their calling is Antichristian we dare not come to your publike Assemblies to Gods worship because in so doing wee shall approve of their unlawfull calling Answer If you come to our Assemblies with good hearts to get edification by the word you bare presence at the ordinances is no approbation of our calling by the Prelates whilest your judgements and speeches are against it many godly and learned men frequented our Christian Assemblies even when the Prelates lorded it over us and troubled us with their ceremonies yet they approved not of the Prelates calling not of their ceremonies but manifested their disapprobation and utter dislike of them so I desire you to come and joyne with us in our Christian Services private and publike speake what you please against the Prelates and their Ceremonies and confute our outward calling from the Prelates by argument as much as you please so that you will but keepe the unity of the spirit with us in the bond of peace but this renting from us doth exceeding much hurt it brings many an able Minister into contempt and the word he preacheth to much disgrace it makes many weaker Christians to stagger and is commonly an inlet to divers errors and heresies for inveterate schismes oft times turne to heresies the Donatists because they could not effect their cruell designe against

Cecilianus Bishop of Carthage fell from the unity of the Church and in the end were defenders of hereticall opinions we reade 1 Sam. 2.22 what horrible abuses of the Lords service was then yea worse then is amongst us yet Elkanah and his wives did frequent the publike Assemblies 1 Sam. 1.3 which he would not have done if his presence there had beene any approbation of those abuses 1 Cor. 11.33 34. there were more horrible abuse of the Lords Supper then are amongst us yet Paul bids them not separate upon this but come together againe yet better prepared I suppose it is lawfull for you to reade a Papists Booke whose religion is heresie or to dispute with a Jesuite and yet by your presence give no approbation of his Religion and condition Mat. 23.3 Christ bids them heare the Pharisees a vaine sect sprang up amongst the Jewes 144. yeares before Christ saith Josephus yet Christ approves not of them farther then they taught the law truly but in the same chapter denounced many woes against them Phil. 1.18 Paul rejoyced that Christ was preached of envie and strife by the false Apostles whose calling was not from Christ then I beleeve that Paul accounted it lawfull for people to here such Preach and yet be in no danger of approving their false Apostleship Besides if your bare presence at our Assemblies doth give an approbation of our calling which seemes Antichristian to you then your presence in our markets where be many prophane people may as truely approove of their sins and wickednesse Christ knew Judas to bee a notorious hypocrite a covetous wordling yea a traitor yet hee admitted him into his family permits him to sit with him at the table yet Christ was farre from approving of Iudas his sin and wickednesse Object But I dare not joyne with your mixt Assemblies least I contract the guilt of their sinnes upon mine owne head Answer That blessed man of God Mr. Hooker now in New England in a famous Sermon he Preached upon 2 Tim. 3.5 answers this objectiō thus suppose saith he those in authority will not cast out prophane persons yet the Saints of God should not abstaine from the Congregation it is pittifull indeede and the thing is troublesome and tedious to a gratious heart and we must mourne for it but beeing it is not in my power I must not abstaine Then he answering the objections of the Anabaptists saith They saith hee cast this as a reproach upon our Church common drunkards say they and swearers if they pay but two pence for their offering at Easter may receive the Lords Supper he answers thus we confesse this fault let it lie where it is we cannot reforme it we onely can mourne for it and that God will accept Obj. 1 Cor. 5.11 if there be an adulterer c. with such do not eate that is communicate not he answers to eate there is not referred to the communion in eating the body of Christ but eate not with him that is be not familiar with such a person and it includes the word familiarity not communion at the Lords table Psal 41.9 their eating implyeth a common inward familiarity mine owne familiar friend c. But saith he they reply from the greater to the lesse if wee may not eate with them privately then much lesse publikely may we communicate with them he answers It s no good reason because I have more authority to refuse the company of a man in mine owne house then I have to refuse in the open congregation I can keepe a man out of my house but I cannot fling him out of the open congregation that belongs onely to those that are in authority Thus farre Mr. Hooker Next I say you may not lawfully relinquish our publique Assemblies and ordinances because of prophane persons that be amongst them whilest we have the Ordinances purely dispensed for the substance Reas 1 Because there is neither example nor precept in Scripture to warrant it if one cannot frequent the meanes of grace in mixt congregations without contracting the guilt of their sinnes then surely Elkanah would never have sacrificed to the Lord in Shiloh yearely with Hophni and Phinehas such prophane persons if there were such danger of contracting the guilt of others sinnes this way then Paul would not have wisht the Corinthians to come together againe though there were amongst thē most vile abuses of the Lords Supper worse then amongst us Vpon the same ground the Jewes might have refused to heare the Pharises as wicked a generation of Hypocrites as ever was both for life and Doctrine yet Christ bids the Jewes and his owne Disciples heare them Mat. 23.3 on the same ground its unlawfull for you to frequent our markets to have civill commerce with us for there even there doe the prophane people amongst us act and practise their wickednesse more openly bouldly and frequently then in our meeting houses in the Markets they use swearing drunkennesse lying couzening c. I should thinke it more dangerous being there though a true Christian may lawfully bee there through the necessity of his perticular calling then in our publike Assemblies at Gods worship for in Gods publike worship amongst us the prophanest persons put on a forme of piety carry themselves demurely with outward reverence they doe not act their leudenes and follie there but conforme to the outward worship I conceive then there is lesse danger for you to be there Reas 2 Because we are bound in conscience by command from Gods word to frequent the publike ordinances for our owne particular edification Isa 55.1 2 3. Prov. 8.1 to 11. verse Prov. 9.1 to 7. verse and in many other places now this I must obey or else I sinne fearefully against God and mine owne soule if the wicked intrude amongst the Saints in their sinfull estate there sins shall lie upon their owne head indeede if I commit their sins with them or approve of their wickednesse and encourage them in it or if I connive at their sinne and reprove them not for it if I have a lawfull calling to doe it or if I mourne not for their sinnes nor endeavour to reforme them then I make my selfe guilty of their sins but if I come in obedience to Gods command to meete him in his ordinances for the enlargement of my communion with him this makes me not guilty of their wickednesse if it did then doubtlesse Christ who knew Judas to be an Hypocrite would not have suffered the other Apostles to eate the Passeover with him but hee would have excluded Judas and expelled him or else hee would have diswaded the other Apostles from comming into Judas his company neither of which he did Therefore it favours strongly of Pharisaisme to relinquish our publike Assemblies because they are mixt the Pha●●●ees thought it sinne to converse with the base vulgar their Phylacteries did say touch me not for I am cleaner then thou though wee have some prophane yet not all