following Treatise proues the contrarie then it vvere good for euery church that will auoid communion with profane men to meete in priuate and then to shut their dore when their own compagnie is meet together else I cannot see how they can auoid hauing communion with wicked men to wit if beare hearing be an acte of communion Secondly as this hearing is not against any Article of their faith so likewise it was not in the iudgement of the church esteemed as a thing that might not be borne withall The letter you shall find after the Treatise this may appeare by a copy of a letter which we haue heer following published where the church in the counsell which they giue to the church of London do sufficiently make it appeare that their iudgement did manifestlie differ from those which now haue made this breach and which is well to be marked by the reader how that the church when this letter was write enioyed the Pastor and their company was fiue tymes greater then it was when this breach was made because these men in his their error are vvilling to retraine it and not being able to make any sufficient reply to the answere made in this Treatise to their obiections though the manuscript therof hath bene in their hands for many yeares yet because they will find somthing to say more then others haue done heretofore though of lesse force therefore they haue ioyned some new obiections which both the seducer and the seduced do thinke are vnanswerable therfore it will not be amisse for vs to propound them and to giue some answere to them that so if their stomachs serue they may reply to all at once First they obiect and say that we hold the church of England to be a false church and the Ministers thereof to be Antichristian and yet we go thither to worship the true God Before we answere directly to this objection we shall intreate the Reader and themselues to consider of this that followes First A church may be said to be false in diuers respects and according to those respects vve are to haue diuers Considerations thereof as first a church may be said to be false in respect of outward order to vvit vvhen a church is gathered together not according to the rule of Christ neither in their outward gouernement do they conforme therevnto now this church cannot be said to be the church of Christ being thus erected and gouerned contrary to the rule of Christ but is false and Antichristian and yet notwithstanding the faith professed by this church and the doctrines taught in this church may be sound and according to God Secondly a church may be false not onely in respect of outward order but likewise in respect of faith and doctrine Now to this latter vve counsell no man to go because from thence no good can be expected and that is the esteeme vve haue of the church of Rome But now as in a true church in respect of outward order there may be manie false doctrines taught so in a church that is false in respect of outward order there may be manie sound and seasonable truths taught and this esteeme vve haue of the preaching in England Namelie that the doctrine there taught according to the Articles of their faith is sound and the effects of it hath appeared in the vvorking of faith in the hearts of manie thousands For the outward order or meeting there as a church that concernes themselues and those that are in vnion vvith that church estate but not all that heare them Now that worshipping of God which consists in hearing his word is warrantable for vs to doe in England we proue it by this argument That preaching which ordinarily begets men to the faith of Christ may lawfully be heard But the preaching of many Ministers in the Church of England hath and doth ordinarily beget men to the faith of Christ. Therefore the preaching of many Ministers in England may lawfully be heard The first part of this sillogisme is proued out of Rom 10. where the Apostle telling what is the ordinary vvay God vses to beget men to the faith of Christ telles vs it comes by hearing of the vvord of God preached if faith comes by hearing the vvord of God preached to vvit if that be the outward meanes then there is no question but that a man may heare such preaching and any man may blush for shame that shall deny this so that the major part of the argument is cleare And for the Minor parte they cannot deny it no more then a man at noon day can deny the sunne to shine for if any man make question whether faith comes ordinarily by the preaching and hearing in England it is a great question vvether they euer had faith or no yet because some are so grosse as to deny this we will therefore proue the contrarie by this Argument That preaching and hearing which makes them which were altogether carnall and so not capable of a church-estate to become saints so fit for a church-estate That preaching must needs beget men to the faith But the preaching and hearing in England made them that were vnfit carnall to become saints and so fit members to the true church which were not so before Therfore the preaching in England and hearing the same doth beget men to the faith That the preaching and hearing in England hath done this Witnesse the church of Leyden and of Amstelredam Let them tell vs where they receiued their faith if they say they had it not till they ioyned in these bodies how could they then be true to their owne grounds that none but visible Christians are fit matter for the church vvhereas none can be so esteemed except in the iudgement of charitie we iudge them to haue true faith But some of these that haue made this diuision haue not denyed but faith is wrought by the preaching and hearing in England and yet which is wonderfull contradiction they say it is not the vvord of God as it is there preached so that it seemes there is something besides the vvord of God which is an ordinary meanes to beget men to the faith and there is another vvord besides Gods vvord that vvill do it the like absurditie hath sildome bene heard from any that professe them selues to be Christians and that they may not seeme to say this vvithout some reason marke the reason that they bring to proue it say they we do deny that to be the vvord of God as it is there preached by a false Ministry though the vvord it selfe be of God yet as it is by them preached it is none of Gods vvord so Gods vvord here stands at fast and loose it is Gods vvord and it is not Gods vvord as if they should say it is Gods word if M r. Canne shall preach it but if another that is a Minister in England preach the same it is none of Gods vvord so
that mens outward callings true or false makes the vvord to be the vvord of God or not to be the vvord of God an assertion rather to be pitied then refuted being litle better then blasphemy that which they bring to make this assertion good to vvit that any man hauing an outward calling vvhich is vnlawfull makes the vvord of God vvhich he preacheth not to be the vvord of God and this say they to proue it it vvas true incense vvhich Nadab and Abihu tooke Lev. 10. 1. to offer vp to the Lord but because they tooke strang fire and not the fire vvhich vvas from the Altar as the Lord had appointed therefore the Lord sent a fire to destroy them so say they it is the true vvord of God which is preached in England but because they preach the same by an vnlawfull office therefore the Lord abhorres it A stranger collection I thinke can hardly by heard for here strang fire is opposed to an vnlawfull outward calling vvhich nothing can be more absurd for Nadab and Abihu had a true outvvard calling to offer they vvere the sonnes of Aaron saith the text therfore if any thing hence might be concluded in iust proportion it must be to the doctrine taught and not in the least to the calling so that vve may from thence gather thus much that if a Minister in regard of his outvvard calling true shall teach any thing that is not from the Lord they are to expect Gods iudgement for the same and more cannot hence be collected further let it be shewed that euer any prophet in the old or new Testament vvas euer termed a false prophet in respect of his outward calling but allwaies in respect of his doctrine vve can find that such as had true outvvard calling in the true church yet vvere false prophets in regard of their doctrine in many perticulers as Christ teaches concerning the Scribes and Pharises for their false expounding of the Law let them shew the like for outvvard callings Thus haue vve thought good hauing bene eare vvitnesses of these things here propounded to set downe our censure of them desyring the Lord to make this vvhole vvorke for the generall good now set forth take effect in those that loue the Trueth Fare you wel OF The lawfulnes of hearing the Ministers of the Church of England by Iohn Robinson AS they that affect alienation from others make their differences as great and the adverse opinion or practise as odious as they can thereby to further their desired victorie ouer them and to harden themselues and their side against them So on the contrarie they vvho desire peace and accord both interprete things in the best part that reasonnablie they can and seek hovv and vvhere they may finde any lavvfull dore of entry into accord agreement vvhat others Of vvhich latter number I professe my selfe by the grace of God both a companion and guide speciallie in regard of my christian countrimen to vvhom God hath tied me in so manie inviolable bonds accounting it a crosse that I am in any perticuler compelled to discent from them But a benefite and matter of reioiceng vvhen I can in any thing vvith good conscience vnite vvith them in matter if not in manner or vvhere it may be in both And this affection the Lord and my conscience are my vvitnesses I haue alvvaies norished in my breast euen vvhen I seemed furthest dravvne from them And so all that haue taken knovvledge of my course can testifie vvith mee and hovv I haue still opposed in others and repressed in mine ovvne to my povver all sovver zeale against and peremptorie rejection of such as vvhose holie graces chalenged better vse and respect from all christians And in testimonie of mine affection this vvay for the freeing of mine ovvne conscience and information of other mens I haue penned this discourse tending to proue the hearing of the vvord of God preached by the Ministers of the church of England able to open and applie the doctrines of faith by that church professed both lawfull and in cases necessarie for all of all sects or sorts of christians hauing opportunitie and occasion of so doing though sequestring themselues from all communion with the Hierachicall order there established Three sorts of opposites I make account to meet vvithall The first of them vvho truly desire and carefully endevour to haue their whole course both in religion and othervvise framed by the holy and right zeale of Gods Word either for their confirmation in the trueth or reformation vvherein through humane frailtie they step aside And vnto them especiallie I direct this my discourse begging at his hands vvho is the Father of lights Iem 1. 17 and from vvhom commeth downe euerie good and perfect gift for them as for my selfe that as he hath giuen vs to set our faces tovvards heauen and to seek him vvith the vvhole heart Psal. 119. 6. so he would not suffer vs to vvander from his commaundements to the right hand or to the left A second sort is of them vvhose tender and scrupulous conscience makes them fearefull and jealous of euerie thing vvhich hath in it the least appearāce or shevv of euil least comming too neare it they be defiled by it one vvay or other This their godly zeale and tender nes of heart is to be loued of all men and cherished by all good meanes Onely such are to be intreated for their ovvne good to take knowledge of a distinction most vsefull for their direction in things lawfull in their kinde and good in their right vse Of vvhich some are onely naturallie good in their kinde but not simply commaunded of God as to get and keep the riches and credit of the vvorld to enjoy outvvard peace or other bodly comfort Others are morallie good in their kinde and commaunded of God as to heare the vvord of God obey the Magistrate and the like Novv in things of the former sort it is verie requisite considering both their nature and ours that vve keep a jealous eye and strait hand ouer our selues and our waies For them they are not in their kinde enjoyned as the other neither do the scriptures any vvhere require of men to be rich or the like as they doe to hear Gods Word obey authoritie c. And for our selues we are proue and in danger to ouerstraint for the getting and enjoying of them as being naturallie pleasing good things So as if out of a godly jealousie ouer our hearts tovvards them vve keep not our selues from going too neer the side for the getting or keeping of them vve shall by one storme of temptation or other be blovvne in to the ditch of sin and destruction But now for the practise and performance of duties simplie morall and commaunded in their kinde as is the hearing of Gods Word speciallie by Gods people vve ought to strain to the vtmost and to go as neer the vvinde as may be seing
for the preuenting in some and remedying in others of that inordinate and broken course And first I demaund of such what is this course of hearing such ministers as vvhose stare of ministerie they approue not Is it any perticuler ordinance left by Christ and enjoyned all christians in all ages and places Verily no. It vvere to be vvished that no church-ministerie vvere to be found vvhich is not approueable by the Word of God notwithstanding any good act performed by them that posses it This hearing is onely a vvork of naturall liberty in it selfe as I haue shewed and sanctified to beleeuers by their faith It is lawfull to vse it vpon occasion as it is to borrow of other men but to make it our course is to liue by borrovving vvhich no honest man that can do othervvise possibly vvould do Yea what differs it from a kinde of spirituall vagabondry in him that can mend it though vvith som difficulty to liue in no certain church-state and vnder no church-order and gouernment To print deep in our hearts the conscience of our duties this vvay let vs briefly consider how many bonds of necessity the Lord hath layd vpon vs to vvalk in the followshippe vnder the ordinances of the ministeriall and instituted-church First vve haue lying vpon vs the necessite of obedience to Christ our Lord in the commission Apostolicall enjoyning that after vve be made disciples as the vvord is Mat. 28. 19. 20. and baptised vve be vvithall taught to obserue vvhatsoeuer he hath commaunded It must not then suffice vs that vve are disciples and christians but we must joyn hearewith the entire obseruation of al the ordinances of Christ as vve can finde meanes from the greatest to the least And let vs beware that like the Scribes Pharisees Mat. 5. 19. 20. vve call none of Gods commaundements litle because vve vvould make our selues and others beleeue that litle and light account is to be made of obseruing them lest vve our selues bee called litle that is be indeed none in the kingdome of heauen Our sinnes of ignorance and humane frayly alas are to many let vs not adde therevnto presumptuous sinnes either of commission or omission to prouoke God vvithall 2. The church and ministrations therein are not needlesse but most needfull meanes sanctified of God and giuen of Christ for our saluation and edification therevnto Act 2. 47. vvhich he that despiseth that is Eph. 4. 11 doth not submit his soule and body vnto as he hath meanes and conuerse therein vvith good conscience though in affliction persecution despiseth not man but God and Christ to the depriuing of himselfe of the fruit of Gods most gracious presence in his house and temple 1. Tim. 3. 15. vvhere he hath promised to dwell and of Christs ascention into heauen for the powring out of all kingly gifts and largesses vpon men for the vvork of the ministery 2. Cor. 6. 16. 3. Our great infirmities vvhereof both the scriptures euery vvhere and our owne experience vvarn vs shew in vvhat great need vve stand of all the Lords holy ordinances and institutions for the supplying of vvhat is vvanting in vs and correcting of vvhat is a misse and continuing and encreasing of vvhat is good vnto the cōming of the Lord vvhere vve must also take knowledge and remember that it is on note of difference and the same very cleare betvveene the vvisedome of the fleshe and the vvisedome of the spirit that the former vvilbe sure to prouide for the body and outvvard man vvhat may bee though vvith danger and prejudize of the spirituall the other vvill take care and order for the spirituall state though the outvvard pinch for it And if any out of the view and persuation of his ovvne strength of grace come to conceaue that he stands in no such need of Christs ordinances or of any christian follovvshippe for the dispensing of them let such a man consider that the lesse need he hath of others by reason of his greater plenty of grace receaued the more need others haue of him for their supply But vvhatsoeuer any imagine of himselfe the Apostle vvho vvas not partiall teacheth that the very head the chiefe and highest member can not say to the feet the lovvest and meanest members I haue no need of you 1. Cor. 12. 21. 4. And lastly it is necessarie for our sound and entire comfort vvith the Lord our God that our obedience be entire in respect of all his holy commandements vvhich vve do or can discern to be such and to concerne vs according to that of the man of God Psa. 119 6 Then shal I not be ashamed vvhen I haue respect to all thy commaundements That so vve may haue our part in the testimonie giuen by the holy Ghost of Zachary and Elizabeth Luk. 1. 5. 6. vvhich vvas that they vvere righteous before God walking in all the commaundements ordinances of the Lord blamelesse That is both in the morall precepts and sacred ceremonies and institutions of the Lord Whose examples vve in our place and times are to followe not balking vvith the Lord in any thing great or small nor seeking starting holes vvhereby to escape from him in his word which is vvholy good and pure Good as comming from our good God Pro. 30. 5. Heb. 6. 5. good in it selfe and good for vs if vve conuerse therein as vve ought in good conscience tovvards God zeale for his ordinances modestie in our selues and charitie tovvards other men specially towards them vvith vvhom God hath joyned vs in the most and best things taking heed lest by any vncharitable either judgment of or vvithdrawing from their persons for such humane fraylties as vnto vvhich into one kinde or other all Adams sinfull prosterity are subject vve sinne not more by our course held against them then they by theirs in them vvhich God forbid To conclude For my selfe thus I beleeue with my heart before God and professe with my tongue and haue before the world that I haue one and the same faith hope spirit baptisin and Lord which I had in the church of England and none other that I esteem so many in that church of what state or order soeuer as are truly partakers of that faith as I account many thousand to be for my christian brethren and my selfe a fellow-member with them of that one misticall body of Christ scattered far and wide throughout the world that I haue alwaies in spirit and affection al christian fellowshippe and communion with them and am most ready in all outward actions exercises of Religione lawfull lawfully done to expresse the same withall that I am perswaded the hearing of the word of God there preached in the manner and vpon the grounds formerly mentioned both lawfull and vpon occasion necessary for me all true christians with drawing from that Hierarchical order of church gouernement and ministery and the appartenances
A TREATISE OF THE LAWFVLNES OF HEARING OF THE Ministers in the church of England penned by that learned and Reverent deuine M r. Iohn Robinsz late Pastor to the English church of God in Leyden Printed according to the Copie that was found in his studie after his decase and now published for the common good TOGETHER WITH A LETTER written by the same Authore and approued by his church vvhich followeth after this Treatise IOHN 7. 24. Iudge not according to pearance but Iudge righteous Iudgment Printed Anno 1634. THE PRINTERS TO the Christian Reader CHristian Reader How euer the verie naming of the Author of this following Treatise vvere sufficient reason for vs to publish this same vnto the vvorld in regard of those large abilities aboue many others vvhich the Lord had bestowed vpon him and in regard he being now at rest with the Lord and so hauing finished long since his course in this his pilgrimage vve cannot expect to haue any more vse of his helpe this waye and although it were great pittie that such a vvorke as this should be concealed for so long time considering the worke vvas perfected and vvritted by his owne hand and so found after his death which is nine yeares since in his studie yet haue we thought it good all this while to conceale it in respect of that desire vve had to the peace of that church whereof the Author of this Treatise vvas for so many yeares a Pastor In regard vve did perceiue that some though not manie vvere contrariâ— minded to the Authors judgement expressed in this Trtatise And this vve judge to be a sufficient reason of our so long delaying of publishing this Treatise to the world Yet to our griefe vve haue now just cause to put this same on foote For as vvhen a citie is in danger of enemies to be surprized it is then high time to take vp all those vvarrlike Munitions vvhich happily before that time vvere cast aside and not regarded that so they may the better maintaine their citie and the priuiledges of it against their enemies so vve judge it as necessarie if not more vvhen vve see the enemies of Gods church to incroach vpon the priuiledges of the same especiallie vvhen they ayme at the vtter ruinating of it that then it is high time for vs to defende the cause of Christ and it vvas the vvisdome of Iehojada the High Priest perceiuing the malice of Athalia seeking to destroy the vvhole seed of Iehosaphat to hide Ioash the right heyre of the Kingdome and vvhen he sawe a fit opportunitie then to reueale him and make him knowne so vve vvho haue obserued Athalias spirit in part to be in some vvho haue laboured to assume the power to themselues vvhich is proper to the church and so Diotrephes like vvould cast out vvhom they please and retayne vvhom they thought good and rather then they vvill be hindred in this their attempt they vvill labour to rent that church in pieces in vvhich they haue liued for manie yeares together and that vve may not seeme to accuse them of any thing vvithout just reason vve desire the Christian Reader and themselues to consider this that followes First their schisme or as they call it their leauing of the church doth arise vpon this occasion to wit that 2. which vvere members of the same church with them hauing vpon some occasion heard some of the Ministers in England preach and it coming to the knowledge of some of these vvho haue now made this rent the church they vvould presently haue these persons dealt vvithall as for sinne and if they did not repent after dealing they vvould haue the church to proceed to excomunicate them ipso facto vvhich the church not willing to consent vnto these men could not be satisfied but they vvould haue their owne vvilles done or els they vvould rent from the church vvhich proceeding of theirs if it vvere approued of and followed no church could long continue together in peace for vvhat these foure or fiue men haue done that may any other man doe so that if any man do conceiue any of his brethren to vvalke in any such sinne vvhich he judges doth deserue excomunication if the church will not thereto consent he may rent himselfe from the same Although the Author of this Treatise haue taught them otherwise to vvit that if the church see not that to be sinne vvhich I see to be a sinne I hauing informed the church thereof according to my place I haue disscharged my dutie and the sinnes lyes vpon the church if it be a sinne and not vpon me but it seemes these men do looke for that in the church on earth vvhich is onely to be found in heauen for themselues haue affirmed and that before diuers witnesses that there is no sinne small or great that is to borne vvithall and that the verie speaking of a vvord through fraylty about worldly businesses vpon the Sabbaoth day should haue as seuere a sentence as he that shall openly prophanely transgresse against the 4. Commandement the verie naming of with their opinion is sufficient to discouer their weaknes that we may yet further discouer these mens folly to the world more fully we will shew you how contrary they are to themselues in this their iudgment for as they say and do affirme that there is no sinne vvhich is to be borne withall in the church yet themselues or at least the chief of them do practise the contrarie as for example one in stead of manie may serue the turne The chiefe of Author of this trouble doth hold and so hath for manie yeares together to vvit that it is vnlawfull for the members of one church to haue communion with another church and yet not vvithstanding this his judgement he can beare vvith one vvho hath contrary to this his judgement practised and so professeth still to do vpon occasion and yet not vvithstanding his so practizing and so professing he is receiued among them and is their chiefe if not their onely Teacher which they haue So that vve may here easily perceiue that though this man doth vse Iehu's peace against the sinnes of others with whom he desires to be alienated yet he can beare vvith as great sinnes in others in his judgement vvith vvhom he desires to vvalke we could shew manie more reasons to proue his partialitie but then vve should exceed the bonds of an Epistle onely vve desire to giue the Reader to take notice of those two things First that this practize of hearing the Ministers of the church of England is not against any Article of faith vvhich is by this church professed vvhereof the Author of this Treatise vvas a Pastor it being no Act of Church Communion for if hearing simplie vvere an Act of Communion then euerie hâ—â—â—tique or Atheist or whatsoeuer he were that should come into the church of God should haue Communion vvith them vvhich if it vvere true as this
refuse the fellovvship of churches in that vvhich is good for any vveaknes in them of one sort or other And this vve haue so plainlie and plentfullie commended vnto vs both by the Prophets yea by Christ himselfe in the Iewish church and Apostles and Apostolicall men in the first christian churchs in which many errours euils of all kindes vvere more then manifest and the same oft times both so farre spread and deeply rooted as the reforming of them vvas rather to be vvished then hoped for as that no place is left for doubting in that case by any vvho desire to follovve their holy steps in faith tovvards God and charitie tovvards men and effectuall desire of their ovvne edification The objections of the former sort follovv 1. OBIECTION There is danger of being seduced and misledd by the errours taught in the astemblies ANSWERE 1. We must not loose the benefite of many main trueths taught Matth 5. chap 23. for daunger of some few errours 2. Cor 11. 19. ◠Ioh. 4. 1. 3. Speciallie in lesser matters Let such read Parker of church policy lib. 1. c. 39 This vvere to feare the deuill more then to trust God 2. There vvere in the Ievvish church in Christs time and in divers of the Apostolicall churches aftervvards more greater errours taught then are in any or ail the churches of England of vvhich also there are not a fevv vvhich if their ministers did as fully and faithfully teach and practize all trueths as they keepe themselues carefully from errours might compare in this busines vvith any reformed church in Europe 3. This exception hath its vvayt against the hearing of Priests and Iesuites speciallie by the vveaker sort and lesseable to discerne of things that differ But not against many ministers of the church of England 2. OBIECTION He that in any thing pertakes with that church in vvhich sinnes knowne are suffred vnreformed pertakes in all the sinnes of that church as he that sweares by the Alter sweares by the offrings vpon it vvhich it sanctifies Matth. 23. 19. 20. ANSWERE I partake not in the sinnes of any how great or manifest soeuer the sinnes bee or hovv neer vnto me soeuer the persons bee except the same sinnes either be committed or remain vnreformed by my fault Othervvise Christ our Lord had been invvrapped in the guilt of a vvorld of sinnes in the Ievvish church vvith vvhich church he communicated in Gods ordinances liuing and dyeng a member therof If my brother sinne a scandelous sinne and I by just order make complaint thereof to the church I haue done my duty It appertaines to the church to excommunicate him if he repent not but not to me except Popelike I vvould make my selfe the church I am guitty of the euill in the common wealth familie for the redressing vvherof I do not my duty in my place vvhich if I do in the church as I can I am free from the sinnes done and suffred there vvhich sinnes and euils I can no more be said to suffer vvanting povver to reforme them then to suffer it to blovv or rain because I hinder it not But the proofe of the assertion from Matth. 13. is of admirable deuise Hovv doth the church sanctifie the sinne of the sinner as the Alter doth the offering of the offerer The Alter makes that to become actually an offering or holy gift vvhich before vvas not an offering actually but onely gold silver or other materiall So doth not the church make any mans sinne to become his sinne vvhich it vvas not before but onely suffers the sinne that vvas But to strain the strings of this imagined proportiō to make them meet and to suppose the church in a sence to be as the Alter yet this only follovves therevpon that as hee vvho partakes vvith the Alter in the vpholding of the offring partakes vvith the offring so he that partakes vvith the church in the vpholding of any euill hath his part in the euill also And this I graunt vvillingly but deny as a most vain imagination that euerie one that partakes vvith a church in things lavvfull joynes vvith it in vpholding the things vnlavvfull to be found in it Christ our Lord joyned vvith the Ievvish church in things lavvfull and yet vpheld nothing vnlavvfull in it 3. OBIECTION But this course of hearing vvill offend weak brethren not persuaded of the lawfullnes of it ANSWERE 1. It vvill offend more and many of them vveakere and that more greeuously if it be not performed Secondly It is an offence taken and not giuen seeing the thing is in it selfe good in its kinde commaunded by God and in that perticuler by men in authoritie and directlie tending to mine edification and not like vnto eating of flesh or drinking of vvine or the like things of indifferent nature and left to my free libertie to vse or not to vse And these are the principall objections vpon the former ground they vpon the latter follovv There is in the hands of manie a threatise published by a man of note containing certain reasons to proue it vnlawfull to heare or haue spirituall communion with the present ministerie of the church of England This hath been ansvvered but indeed sophisticallie and in passion Neither hath the ansvverer much regarded vvhat he said or vnsaid so he might gainsay his adversarie With that ansvvere vvas joyned an other directed to my selfe and the same doubled pretending to proue Publique communion vpon priuat but not pressing at all in the body of the discourse that consequence but proceeding vpō other grounds and in trueth consisting of a continued equivocation in the terms publique licence gouernment ministry and the like dravvne to another sence then either I intended them or then the matter in question vvill permit Whereas he that vvill refute another should religiously take hold to his aduersaries meaning and if in any perticuler it be not so plainly set dovvne should spell it as it vvere out of his vvords But it is no new thing euen for learned and godly men to take more then lavvfull libertie in dealing vvith them against vvhom they haue the aduantage of the times favouring them like the vvind on their backs But God for bidde I should follovv them heerin I vvill on the contrarie vse all plaines and simplicity as in the sight of God that so I may make the naked trueth appeare as it is to the christian readers eye vvhat in me lieth And for the treatice mentioned it must be obserued hovv both in the title and body of the booke the authour confounds as one hearing of and haueing spirituall communion vvith the ministery c. vvhich as it is true of such as stand in spirituall and politicall church-vnion vvith a church and the ministerie thereof vvho accordingly haue church communion in the publique acts and exercises of that church so is it not true of others vvhich are not members of not in ecclesiasticall vnion and combination
them 14. OBIECTION They that eat of the sacrifice partake of the Alter 1. Cor. 10. 18. so they that receaue the word from an vnlawfull Officer partake with his office ANSWERE I deny the consequence The office is not to the vvord as the Alter is to the sacrifice The Alter makes the thing to be offred actually to become a sacrifice vvhich it vvas not before saue only in destination as Christ plainly teacheth saying Math. 23. 19. The Alter sanctifieth the gift but so doth not the office make that to become the vvord of God vvhich vvas not so actually before This argument hath its speciall waight being applied to sacraments or proper institutions The church and ministerie vnder God make in a good sence the bread and vvine sacramentall in their vse vvhich before they vvere not And to the sacraments speciallie the supper of the Lord The Apostle in the place cited hath an eye shevving the proportion betvveene the eating of the sacrifices in Israell which in that vse became their sacraments the eating of the sacrifices of the Heathens which were their sacraments and the eating of the Lords supper as the sacrament of christians With these things joyn in the last place that sacrificies considered as proper institutions might not be offred or eaten Deut. 12. 5. 6. 7. but in the place chosen and sanctified by the Lord for that purpose No more may sacraments now be eaten but in the church vvheras the vvord may be preached to any as vvell out of the church as in it 15. OBIECTION The places called Temples churchs hauing been built for Idolatry should de demolished and therfore are not to be frequented specially being accounted and made holy places Deut. 12. 3. ANSWERE Iohn 4. 21 23. 24. 1. The difference of places vnder the lavv 1. Tim. 2. 6 vvhen all other places for the most solemne vvorshippe as opposed to that one place as holy vvere vnholy is now taken away so as no place novv is holy or vnholy as then 2. Suppose it be the Magistrates dutie to destroy them of which I now dispute not nor howfarre he should proceed therein yet I deny the consequence and that I may not vse that lavvfully vvhich he ought to destroy The Magistrate ought to haue destroyed such cities in Israell Deut. 13. 12. 13. 14. 14. as vvhose inhabitants had been corrupted vvith Idolatry Yet might the cities if spared by the Magistrats lavvfully be dvvelt in aftervvards Synagogues in them both be built and frequented for Gods morall worshippe Iericho should haue been Iosh. 6. 17. 36. an execration and heap for euer 2. King 2. 3. 5. yet being built again and standing vvas the seat of a school of the Prophets The murtherer ought to be put to death yet if he be spared and surviue his wife children and seruants lavvfully may and in conscience ought to conuerse vvith him according to the naturall and ciuill relations betvveene them and him 3. I knovv no lavv in force nor doctrine receaued in the church of England that ascribes any holines to the places And for errours and abuses personall they rest in the persons so erring I suppose some such holines be ascribed vnto them as to holy churches holy buildings consecrated places c. Yet I see no sufficient reason vvhy I may not vse lavvfully a naturall and ciuill place in them for any lawfull vvork ciuil or religious priuate or publique for there is one reason of all these If any think those places like the Idolathites he mistaketh therein The things offred to Idols eaten in the Idols temple and feast vvere in proportion 1. Cor. 10. as the bread vvine being blessed in the Lords supper as both the Apostle and reason of the thing manifests Whereas the place vvhich I vse though for a religious action to be performed in it vvhether in the temple or in mine ovvne house hath onely the consideration of a naturall and ciuill circumstance The temple as a temple vvhich yet I do not think is done in England by any either receaued doctrine or lavv may be made an Idoll by consecration and yet euery perticuler place in it not made vnlavvfull for all vses If any further object that in preaching hearing Gods Word therin vve haue a religious vse of it they erre not considering that though the vvork done be religious yet the place is no more religious therefore then the time in which I do it Time and place are naturall circumstances and vvithout vvhich no finite action can be performed and some time and place more comodious fitt then others for the doing of things of all kindes I haue no more religious vse of the place in vvhich I hear publiquely thē in which I pray priuately in my house or chamber 16. OBIECTION Seing vvhatsoeuer is not of faith is sinne vvhat vvord of God and so of faith is therefor this practice ANSWERE Euery scripture that either commands Mat. 7. 24. the hearing of Gods vvord Luk. 11. 28. promiseth a blessing to them that 1. Pet. 2. 5. hear and keep it Tit. 3. 1. or that commands me to edifie and built to my selfe Heb. 12. 14. or to obey the Magistrate or to followe after peace or to preuent offences 1. Cor. 10. 32. vvarrants and in cases enjoyns this practice supposing no sinne to be in the vvay of vvhich in ansvvering the former objections to vvhich I suppose all other of vvait or couller may be referred I hope I haue cleared it And for any vnsatisfied or other vvise minded I vvishe I knew their reasons either for their good by a sufficient answere to be giuen vnto them or for mine owne by admitting of them as there may appeare vvait in them In the meane vvhile let me intreat of the differentlie minded one vvay or other that they vvould exercise mutually that true christian charitie one tovvard another and compassion one of anothers infirmities which becoms all that vvill be in trueth and deed follovvers of Christ Iesus vvhich is most needfull speciallie in things of this kinde for the preseruing of the vnitie of the spirit in the bond of peace Which bond of peace whilest men are not carefull to keep inviolated by brotherly for bearance in matters of this nature they miserablie dissipate and scatter themselues and one another euen as the eares in a sheffe are scattered vvhen the bond breaketh But as few or no good things of any kinde are so vvell vsed by some but others as much abuse them so is it to be feared that there vvill not vvant vvho vvill change their lawfull libertie this vvay into lavvlesse licentiousnes and so take vp in steed of all other religious exercises a hearing course onely And those specially of them who disliking the present churchstate in England yet vvant due zeale and loue to that vvhich themselues approue Let me a litle turn my speach to such