to the stoole ANSVVERE IF you respect repentance good works I wonder you regard christian charitie no more but so apparantly to slaunder vs against the generall voice of our writers who protest themselues herein greatly iniuried and vrge as great necessitie of good workes as you doe or can desire secluding them onely from the act of iustification not from the meanes of securitie euery where teaching that the keeping of a good conscience in true faith doth worke in vs that certaintie of hope for saluatiō which is the rest only peace of conscience in this life Notwithstanding whē we haue done what we can in Gods seruice since we are vnprofitable and our workes vnperfect it is not any way safe to trust in our selues or rely vpon them but onely in Gods mercies and Christes merits in which poynt Bellarmine himselfe doth most ingenuously ioyne with vs. Tutissimum tamen est propter incertitudinem propriae iustitiae periculum inanis gloriae totam fiduciam nō in opeirbus nostris sed sola dei misericordia benignitate reponere This is all I can find in our writers that giues any shadow of occasion to this vncharitable slaunder which in the iudgment of a cleere minde will easily vanish as a miste before the sunne Your simile I confesse is too strong and may easily ouercome me and modestie biddes me spare to encounter it MOTIVE THese are the two fallacies whereupon Luther built his rebellion and wherein all the heresies of our time conspire though otherwise at difference with themselues for there can bee no fitter baites to beguile simple men then opinion and sensuall men then ease because euery one lieth open to decay in his owne vices ANSVVERE THus are you taken in the snare which you layd for others For the power of God in our ministery being to encounter with those two vglie monsters of nature ignorance and sensualitie it is the ende of our whole profession both to make the simple wise to saluation in such pointes as be meete for their conceites and expedient for their seuerall callings as also to conuert the sensuall vnto newnes and holines of life Thus we professe and thus we teach neither feeding the one kinde with opinions nor promising ease vnto the other Therefore if you either perceiuing some loosenes of life in the laitie doe ascribe that to our doctrine or obseruing the due execution of this ministerie to be wanting in some of the clergie shall therfore condemne the whole do ye not plainly see the two grād fallacies wherein you beguile your selfe and whereupon you haue built this Apostasie THE FOVRTH MOTIVE AMongst many loadstones that which hath the preeminence of vertue in proportionable distance winneth the Iron from all the rest So Christ being lifted vp in the abasing of his passion promised by his attractiue vertue to draw vnto his seruice all men from all religions For what rebellion of nature cannot he pacifie vnto the vnitie of Faith when he pleaseth to come within compasse that hath vnited humane nature into Gods hypostaticall vnion Therefore to gather vp the effect as a threed to leade to the cause the greatest multitude in consent of communion among the diuerse parcels and rentes of those that beare the liuery of Christ his name is a sufficient demonstration of the true and naturall loadstone which must of necessitie drawe more vnto it then the rest because it effecteth by his owne vertue when all the rest worke onely by the touch thereof ANSVVERE THat I may the better finde you in this discourse I will expresse your meaning more distinctly which you carie in a cloud of generalities the easier to deceaue For when I enquire what kinde of beleeuers they be whose number you endeuour so far to enlarge and extend beyond others me thinkes the resemblance of the loadstone and that attractiue vertue of Christ his passion out of the 12. of Iohn doe import not so much an outward calling to the profession of the catholike faith which makes a visible Church as an inward and effectuall drawing to the power thereof proper onely to the liuely members who make a mystical and inuisible bodie not discernable in the eye of man yet so it falleth out that this number of elect and sanctified persons is not by you intended For many are called into the visible Church but few chosen into the number of the Saintes many clensed in the fount from originall leprosie scarce the tithe shewing due thankfulnesse in the residue of their liues Wherevpon that I may take you right I vnderstand you meane a visible companie of catholikes that is professors of the Apostolike faith And then must you shake hands with Christ his attractiue vertue resembled by your loadstone which is taken in the former kinde to signifie not so much the outward calling of men into the visible Church as an inward and forcible drawing of them into the fellowship of the sonnes of God And so hath Christ and doth still by his death and passion draw vnto him men of all conditions from all the quarters of the world Further if you take that visible companie of professours at the largest for all those that beare the liuerie of Christ his name vnder which liuerie saith Barnard many doe seruice vnto Antichrist then doe you make both the Church of Rome and ours to be members of one visible Church al professing one Lord that is Christ giuing the name to all christians Secondly one baptisme without rebaptization of either hand Thirdly one faith as it is summarily premised in the counsell of Trent and professed dayly in our Church Thus far be we knit togither by a triple bande of vnitie which is not easily broken And so farre is your note of multitude common to both and therefore not to the purpose of this motiue It remaines then in the third place that the middle way be taken twixt these two vnderstanding the companie of sounde beleeuers and orthodoxall professors of Christs truth for in these three seuerall sences is the Church taken by diuers The first that is the companie of Saints is too narrow for your purpose the second containing all professors is too large and for the third that is the companie onely of sound and orthodoxall professors if you proue that that is and euermore hath been preeminent for multitude euen in persecution and inundations of heresies I shall much meruaile MOTIVE THis populous inheritance of such as professe the communion of his doctrine was giuen him as a royaltie in the 2. Psalme And after his resurrection he sent his Apostles to take possession of the dowrie of his Church from Hierusalem vnto the ends of the world and the prophets who from their high tower of speculation might ouerlooke more then the compasse of 2000. yeares and therefore tooke the draught of Christ his kingdome could perceiue no signe more glorious and visible then a multitude reaching from the East to the
waigh together the spouse of Christ with Luther Caluin Melancthon aecumenicall counsels with priuate opinions the reuerend and learned fathers with Arius Aetius Vigilantius men alwaies in their time burned for heretikes the harmony of Churches with the iarring of conuenticles of them that are in as great brawle with themselues as with the catholikes The vniforme practise of 1500. yeares with the often change of others The tradition of the Apostles with the dregs of heretikes Now let any man though ouerbalanced by affection consider with himselfe whether of these should be beleeued in expounding the scriptures and consequently in the truth of the controuersies which relyeth vpon the sence ANSVVERE THis is right the wise man of Athens who thought all the shippes his owne which came to hauen Church councels Fathers Apostolicall traditions all yours And we poore soules turned ouer to a few single spirits Luther Caluin Melancthon c. If I might be so bold with you as Sir Thomas More was in like case with a protestant it were time to put you in minde of one Caius who encountring with a scholler would needs haue his first demaunde graunted to wit whatsoeuer had two eares was a foolish beast For els he could not so gallantly haue come vpon him as otherwaies he had ment Your demand is alike reasonable For you assume no more as graunted but the iudgment of the Church the definition of councells the consent of Fathers the harmonie of Churches the practise of all ages the rule of Apostolicall tradition Which if we giue you and leaue our selues a few particular mens expositions indeede I confesse you may conclude at your pleasure But it is wel knowen we doe no further relie vpon those learned mens assertions then they be authorized by the forenamed witnesses Which testimonies so confidently alledged for your parte I hope you are not ignorant how that all along in our apologies defences and answeres they be brought against you by our defenders especially those witnesses of more ancient times vnto whom we are content to appeale as most indifferent iudges and more sincere then any of later times being neerer to Christ and further from these factions To put you out of doubt I will set downe our owne words Quam ea die Iuellus vocem verissimam ac constantissimam emisit quando ad sexcentorum annorum antiquitatem prouocanit vobisque obtulit vt si vel vnicam ex aliquo patre aut consilio claram dilucidam sententiam afferretis non recusaret quin vobis palmam concederet ea est nostrûm omnium professio idem omnes pollicemur fidem non fallemus THE SECOND MOTIVE THe mysteries of religion do so far exceede the narrow straites of our vnderstanding that because they cannot be comprehended by reason God hath therefore appointed faith to entertaine them which faith is built vpon diuine and vnfallible authoritie the minde yeelding obedience in stead of discourse receiuing indifferently the truth of doctrine vpon the credit and affiance of the teacher Therefore that religion which doth not stay the assent of the scholler and hath not irrefragable authoritie in all matters of faith hath neither merit of beliefe in it selfe nor others But such is the discipline of the protestants that they affoord their schollers no other but humane and mutable authoritie whereby to beleeue the number and dignitie of the scriptures with the sense and interpretation of them in which consisteth the summe of all religion ANSVVERE THe mysteries of religion doe far exceede the narrow straites of our vnderstanding for without controuersie great are those mysteries to wit God is manifested in the flesh iustified in the spirit seene of Angels beleeued on in the world and receiued vp into glorie Amongst which the schollers assent to those misteries is accounted one beleeued on in the world which you haue well expressed appointing faith not reason to entertaine them The mind yeelding obedience in steed of discourse receiuing indifferently the truth of doctrine vpon the credit and affiance of the teacher This teacher you haue determined to be the inflexible testimonie of the catholike Church of whome we receiued the forenamed principles of religion yea the scriptures themselues And surely that minde which would not yeeld obedience to the testimonie of this generall voice were in all sound iudgments most vnreasonable For doth not reason her selfe tell vs That which most men and wisest agree vpon is most true doth she not adde further Those men be wisest next God that are most deare vnto him Then that religion which is professed and taught by the most holy and catholike Church which is venerable for antiquitie certaine for succession comely for order admirable for vnitie approued by experience allowed by prouidence confirmed by miracles rooted in so many kingdomes neuer doubted of but by heretikes is in the very eye of reason to be imbraced How thinke you Is not this reasons discourse And a sound discourse You must not deny it for it is your owne If reason then build vpon Church authoritie how place you faith in reasons roome If this be reasons discourse what is that yeelding obedience in stead of discourse Where is that great mysterie of godlines beleeued on in the world which captiuates the vnderstanding to the obedience of faith Let me helpe you out with a schoole distinction that wee may cleere the way before vs. The schollers assent to the Church testimonie is called faith I confesse but such a faith as the schoole termeth Acquisita fides faith gotten by discourse testimonie of the holy men of God a faith caried along by reason grounding vpon sufficient witnes and conuincing the vnderstanding by euidence of demonstration a faith incident not to wicked men only but the diuels themselues But the schoole diuines haue taught a more diuine faith which they call Infusa fides immediatly inspired by the holy Ghost from heauen informing the minde inclining the will to entertaine the principles of christianitie with all perfect obedience in stead of discourse For the begetting of which faith in the hearts of men that former testimonie of the Church and discourse of argument doth wonderfully dispose and prepare the minde but y t which giues the stroke and addeth life vnto it is the celestiall motion of Gods spirit which Saint Iohn calls the witnes within vs opposing it to the Church testimonie without vs. This is that true faith which Aquin affirmes neuer to bee found in diuels which Scotus aueres neuer to be void of christian charitie which Bellarmin proues and Trent defines neuer to be obtained without diuine reuelation and inspiration of Gods spirit vpon which it is built as vpon diuine and vnfallible authoritie the minde yeelding obedience in steede of discourse and receiuing indifferently the truth of doctrine vpon the credit and affiance of this teacher Hereupon doth our religion stay the assent of the scholler and hath irrefragable authoritie in the
principles of faith wherein consisteth the summe of all religion These first principles of religion assented vnto by this infused faith as the principles of reason by the light of nature haue taken a deeper impression in the mindes of the faithfull than the voice of the Church or an Angell from heauen could haue made For if we saith Paul the Apostles of Christ nay if an Angell from heauen confirmed in the state of happines should preach any other Gospell that is lay any other principles of religion then be all readie layd let him bee accursed Then somewhat there is of more certaintie to vs then Peter or Paul or any Angell Sinos aut Angelus Thus farre therefore you must of necessitie yeeld vnto vs except you withstand the streame of your owne Doctors that albeit the voice of the Church be a witnesse of this truth without exception yet aboue and beside this the minde of a beleeuing Christian is stroken with a lightning from Heauen inspyred with diuine reuelation enformed with that infused faith which farre surpasseth that former faith gotten by discourse and testimonie of the Church without vs. This is the last resolution of our religion into a principle that standes vpon his own ground to wit into an vndoubted assent of the minde informed by true faith fixed by the holy Ghost vpon the Axioms of Christian religion All that I would say to this point is by your Doctor Stapleton well concluded in one period Fideles enim omnes per vocem ecclesiae inducuntur ad fidem inducti autem lumine inspirationis diuinae illustrati non iam amplius propter Loquelam ecclesiae sed propter Lumen illud diuinum credunt But for more remote conclusions drawen from principles by discourse and tract of consequence because therein to rely vpon speciall reuelation were dangerous we most willingly imbrace the voice of the Church in manner as we haue said to your first motiue alwaies acknowledging Gods spirit to be more fully resident in holy assemblies then priuate braines promising to leade the Church into all truth to be resident where two or three are gathered together in his name which spirit for his part will neuer be wanting if the Church for her part be not defectiue But whether these promises made be absolute or with condition that is suppose the Church will not be led whether the spirit will perforce driue her into all truth Suppose her chieftaines assemble themselues with preiudicate and sinister affections not with that sinceritie which is required whether the spirit will therin assist them Or whether these suppositions be possible that God in regard of our sins will suffer such corruptions to creepe into Synodes as may lead thē into errour in some ages more in some lesse though euermore preseruing life in the principles of religion is the point in question Vpon which issue we denie such a power of not erring to the Church militant as should enforce the mind to giue assent to counsell decrees in the same kind and degree of faith as to the articles of beleefe which remaines more fully to be shewed out of your owne groundes MOTIVE FOr they affirme that the authority of the Church and ministerie of whom their followers receiue the sacred scriptures and their expositours be humane and such as may goe aside into errour and sometimes doe So that of necessitie whosoeuer standeth in the integritie of their opinion either haue no faith at all or else onely humane and errant For they that haue a possible impotencie of erring in one point of faith what assurance can they make of distinction that they doe not erre in all ANSVVERE WE affirme the authoritie of the Church and ministerie to be humane in the same sense as Saint Iohn cals it the testimonie of men If we receiue the testimonie of men the testimonie of God is greater Which testimonie of men was by all consent the testimonie of the Apostles themselues who ioyntly were witnesses of the resurrection of the Lord of life Then if the testimonie of the Apostles be humane I hope in the like sense we may call the authoritie of the Church humane I come at the last to that grand motiue whereupon all the rest depends the omnipotence of not erring Wherein that I may quickly touch the point I spare to proue what is granted for we go along certaine steps together without iarring First it is confessed that any counsell particular or general may erre if it be not confirmed by the Pope Secondly that Pope and counsell may erre in any by matter beside the definitiue sentence principally intended Thirdly that they may errein application of scriptures in illustrations in sequel of argument drawne from scripture to inferre that definitiue sentence Fourthly the definitiue sentence it selfe may be erronious if it be defined onely as a probabilitie not as a point of faith Fiftly though it be concluded as a matter of faith yet there may be errour in the proprietie of speech by superfluitie or want of termes by displacing of wordes or such like Only the verie bare maine sense of the conclusion it selfe is cocke sure from errour Into this narrow straite they confesse themselues to haue been alreadie pursued the consideration of which point me thinkes should cause an indifferent mind to pause a little and thinke it strange at the least that the euident truth of the Church testimonie whereupon all catholike faith must depend that the first principle standing vpon his owne ground into which all religion is to be resolued as into a pure element should be put to so many shiftes and hunted into such a narrow roome But further to vrge you with your owne I demaund from whence a counsels definitiue sentence doth receiue her infallibilitie Either it must be immediately from the spirit of God or else by means of consequence from the text of scripture or article whereupon it groundeth The first is by your selues denied for it is the first and speciall difference Bellarmine putteth twixt counsels Canons and canonicall scripture that the word of God is authorized by immediate reuelation from the spirit but counsels deriue their conclusions by discourse from the word Your champion answered me to this point that indeed God would haue his Church to vse those meanes of discourse and testimonie yet at the vpshot the spirit doth fortifie the conclusion and lets the rest go So I hope Paul did apply his bookes and parchments vsed the meanes of studie and discourse though that which he resolued vpon to put in writing was by the immediate motion of the spirit Therefore still this makes no difference at all Then belike if Bellarmine stand it is the discourse sequele of argument which the conclusion must rely vpon for her certaintie but that also proues a broken staffe euen in your owne iudgements Bellarmine saieth it is erronious and Stapleton resolues vpon it that from erronious arguments counsels doe
it is subiect to errour being not able so steadily to looke backe frō euery conclusion to the first ground so the minds of Christian men holding the same commō grounds by them vnfolding difficulties and from them raising conclusiōs according to the variety of iudgements and apprehensions doe shape so many formes of opinions and controuersies of religion Thus farre I hope we haue gone hand in hand without crosse or variance in any poynt at all It remaines them since the vnderstanding euen of a christian man is weake and vnstable in his discourse and apprehension that we seeke the meanes to establish and confirme the same so far forth as may stay the conscience of one studious of truth in matters of religion Your aduise is that notwithstanding all truth in controuersie of faith be grounded chiefely vpon scripture yet the sence of scripture being diuersly taken by diuers therefore to vs vncertaine the question at last must be remoued from the text to the interpretour from the scripture to the men God forbid the question should euer be remoued from the ground of truth which truth is contained in the first principles which principles be euidently expressed in scripture not diuersly taken but agreed vpon of all Churches As that Christ is come in the flesh Christ is the sonne of the liuing God his second comming to iudgement the resurrection and such like the analogie of which truths is an infallible rule for expounding more obscure places and a sure ground to build vpon These principles being not doubtfull in varietie of apprehensions like other places of greater difficultie there is no shew of reason why a christians mans mind should in any controuersie be remoued from them no more then naturall reason will in any case forsake her common grounds notwithstanding any sect of Philosophers whatsoeuer but still labour to trie and examine all opinions by her first rules Thus much I will presume vpon as graunted if any exceptiō be taken I appeale to your own words It is best to goe aside and single out the two grand originals and foundations from the which all the other factions arise that by taking a iust estimat of the strength of either our iudgement may leane to the stronger part I demaund then when your selfe went aside to single out the two grand originals by what rules did you take a iust estimate of the strength of either If religion be to you a matter of conscience you must needes confesse that your rules of reason or religion or both did sway your mind and make your iudgement leane as you thinke to the stronger part So that euen by your own euidence that last remoue of the question from the text to the interpreter from the scripture to the men if it cary any shew of truth it must be interpreted verie tenderly First you meane not frō that plaine scripture wherein the first principles bee euidently authorized but onely from those obscure textes whose sence is doubtfull to vs in such varietie of apprehensions Secondly the remoue is not made from the scripture altogether to the men but so as still we keepe our sure footing vpon the first grounds in the strength and euidence wherof diuine truth both in it selfe and to vs is euermore established Now further to proceede because the Apostle commaunds vs not alwaies to sticke in our first principles we must needes confesse that the vnderstanding of priuat men vnsteedie in discourse and feeble in iudging such high and waightie matters is of it selfe aswell in expounding scripture as setting downe conclusions subiect to manifould errors and heresies And therefore besides those premised groundes from which we take our rise we must be confirmed by such meanes as Christ hath besides prouided for the members of his Church militant here vpon earth Which meanes are braunched into the assistance of Gods spirit within vs and the testimonie of the Church and holie men of God without vs. These speciall helpes God hath prouided for his Church ouer and aboue humane helpes common to Christians with the sonnes of nature The former of these I meane the assistance of Gods spirit for enlightning our vnderstanding and inabling our iudgments is purchased 1. by feruencie of prayer 2. religious exercise 3. holines of life and 4. studious indeuour Yet notwithstanding because both reason and religion ioyned with humilitie will easily perswade that Gods spirit is more fully resident in holy assemblies then priuat mens braines that spirit is to be suspected of singularitie which will not with all reuerence imbrace the testimonie of the Church So then a Christian man studious of truth doth rest his conscience vpon these three witnesses First the euidence of our first principles expressely propounded in scripture and written in the tables of our heartes by the holy Ghost Secondly the assistance of Gods grace and holy spirit promised to euery faithfull soule for confirming his iudgment so far forth as may leade to happines and performe the dueties of that place whereunto he is called Thirdly the testimonie of the Church and holy men of God And these three agree in one But in your last remoue of the question From the text to the interpreter from the scripture vnto the men passing ouer the two former you haue resolued your selfe wholy vpon the worth merit and authoritie of those which are the expositors So that according to your aduise hauing singled out the graund originals and foundations of our two religions and taking as neere as I can a iust estimate of the strength of either I find the odds three to one of our side For although these three witnesses bee so linked togither as rightly taken they be neuer seuered yet least singling them out one from another we should mistake any wee lay fast hold of all three conferring examining and confirming to our selues one by another You contrariwise leane your selfe and rest your conscience onely vpon the third the testimonie of the Church as vpon an infallible ground of all the rest Which if it proue a broken staffe by your mistaking of it either in taking the testimonie of some portion of the visible Church for the whole catholike or secondly an vnsound part for the sound or thirdly misconceauing the churches of former times it will not only deceiue you but the shiuers thereof wound your erronious and naked conscience which easily may befall such a one as is of no longer time or deeper studie then you and I are well knowne to be MOTIVE THe catholike part for the strength of their interpretation alledge the iudgment of the Church the definitions of councels the consent of fathers the harmonie of Churches the practise of all ages and the rule of Apostolicall tradition left by succession as the light through the heauens The Protestantes bring forth the seuerall founders of their sects Luther Caluin Melancthon and others of that straine whose exposition they cleaue vnto Lay this in the ballance and