aside the Commandments of God you hold the Tradition of men THO. GRANTHAM THE BAPTIST AGAINST THE PAPIST The FIRST PART sheweth the SCRIPTURE and ROME to be in Contention about the SUPREAM SEAT of JUDGMENT in Controversies of RELIGION THe first of all Controversies is founded upon this Query What is the authoritative Judge of Controversies And indeed till there be some agreement in this point there can be no expectation of any fruitful issue of any Controversie Now all Controversies amongst the sons of men are reduceable to one of these two heads namely things humane or things divine things precisely pertaining to this life or things which only pertain to that which is to come concerns of a secular consideration or concerns of a religious consideration And according to the nature of these Controversies such ought the Judge for decision thereof to be Concerning this Judge of Religious Controversies there are divers opinions Some say that the Light or that of God in Every Man is this only infallible Judge of all Religious Controversies But if this be admitted a multitude of inconveniences must needs follow of which this is not the least That there can be no end of Controversies because if every man have this Judge of all Debates in himself and he aver that what he saith and doth is according to the voice of this Judge or that of God in him no man can take in hand to judge contrary thereunto without becoming the Judge's Judge and so violate the Rule proposed For this opinion refers not doubtful matters to that of God in some men or a select number of men but to that of God in every man There is another Opinion which saith That amongst all men which pretend to own Christ and challenge to themselves the title of his Church and yet do deny each other to have an interest in that title That amongst all such parties of the sons of men the only infallible and authoritative Judge of their Controversies about Religion is the LORD Himself as he speaketh by his Spirit in the holy Scriptures together with right Reason or thus which is all one The Apostles and Prophets as they speak in their holy Writings are the onely infallible authoritative Judge in these Controversies Yet three things are in this Opinion allowed first That the living voice of the Pastors with the Church in their respective Ages wherin they live are of great importance in order to the terminating strife in the Church as a Church Secondly That Records of Antiquity are of some usefulness for the resolving some Controversies and for the better discovery of some Errors yet not so absolutely necessary but that the Church may sufficiently resolve her Controversies without them Thirdly That there is a Judgment of Science to be allowed every man as touching all things which he chuseth or refuseth in matters of Religion to be used with moderation and discreet subjection And this is the Opinion to which for my part I do adhere There is another Opinion which saith That the Papal Church of Rome is the Supream Judge and Catholick Moderatrix of all Disputes in matters of Faith and that All are bound to hear and obey her Voice under pain of Damnation and that the Scriptures as taken in the second Opinion is not the Judge of Controversies Now this is the Opinion which at this time I am to examine which in much seriousness I humbly purpose to do and leave it to the sober consideration of all men And for the better discharge of this duty it is meet we should understand what the Papists mean by the Church of Rome And this I find that under that title they would involve the whole Church of Christ from the Apostles dayes until this present time at least all the Faithful since the time that Paul declares the Roman Church to have been famous as Rom. 1. 8. But this is the very thing denied by us for though we willingly grant that there was a very famous Church at Rome when Paul wrote his Epistle to them yet it followeth not that there is such a Church there now or that all that ever from that time to this have walked in the steps of true Faith must needs be supposed to have been Members of the Roman Church or rather of the Church of Rome so called especially since it was Papal So that in this Controversie they must be content to define the Church of Rome on this wise viz. All that in any Age since Christ was of the same Faith and Practice in things religious which is at this day found in the Papal Church of Rome and those only are the persons of whom the Papal Church of Rome doth consist And indeed this is as much as they can reasonably desire for if those holy men who lived in times past were of a Faith and Practice contradistinct to that which Rome hath now received Then may not the present Papal Church without wrong challenge them to be of their Church As for example Paul who bore witness for Christ at Rome and the Christians there in his dayes was of the Church of Christ at Rome yet we deny that they were any part of the Papal Church of Rome The Church of Rome therefore defined as before I do deny to be the infallible authoritative Judge of all Controversies about matters of Faith or Religion And I do further say That the Scriptures and right Reason as laid down in the second opinion much more deserves to be received for this supream Judge of Controversies than the Papal Church of Rome and that there is not an other Umpire that can so effectually decide the Controversies of Religion which depend between such parties of men as lay claim to the Title of Christ's Church and yet deny each other to have an interest therein And how far forth the truth in this Point hath been evidenced in that pro and con Discourse so far as it relateth to the first of them which hath been occasioned by the writing of the Seven Queries I have before spoken of is here offered to the Consideration of all sober men that profess to own the Glorious Gospel of the blessed God and our Saviour Jesus Christ The first Query of the Seven was this propounded by the nameless Papist PAPIST Whether we are to resolve all differences in point of Religion only out of the written Word of God BAPTIST To which Question these ensuing Answers were given before I received the Adversaries last Paper which with the Answers thereunto I will transcribe verbatim I say the Answers were That the word Controversies being understood of such Controversies only as depend between those parties of men who deny each other to be the Church that then there is no other way whereby WE can resolve those Controversies but by the assistance of God's Spirit speaking to us through the undoubted Prophets and Apostles and Primitive Churches in the lively Oracles of God the Scriptures of
that a Heathen may by the Law of Conscience judge their Church to be more holy than ANY other Congregation of Christians Were they ever Heathens to know this But alas what holiness can a Heathen judge of Surely not that which is an infallible mark of the true Church for this Spiritual matter is foolishness to the Natural man nor can he know it because 't is spiritually discerned It is true there is a Holiness discernable by the Law of our Consciences But this only is not an infallible mark that any Society is the Church of Christ nor did ever any man I am perswaded hold forth such a Doctrine that was a faithful Minister of the New Testament or Spirit Again What of this kind of Holiness whereof a Heathen as such can judge is there found among the Papists which may not be found among the Baptists yea among those that are opposite to both as the Quakers and others yea among the very Jews and Turks may be found as much of this kind of Holiness as among the Papists if any credit may be given to Histories Sometimes the Papists do object the Creed as sufficient to demonstrate a man to be a Member of the Church though he know not whether there be any Scripture But I Answer How shall this be proved to be the Creed it must not be its own evidence for then the Scripture may as well speak for it self which the Papists will not allow nor can the Church of Rome confer any authority upon the Creed till they be found to be the Church So then this is the Conclusion Rome must be found to be the Church before there be a Creed I do therefore humbly desire these few Observations may be seriously thought upon by all sober men but especially the Papists that so men may give to the holy Scriptures that which is proper to them that is That they may speak without controul both for themselves and every thing else of a Religious consideration or else all Volumns of the Antients and Societies of men pretending to Christianity as things stand in our dayes must depart into utter silence The Second Reason The present Papal Church of Rome hath no Baptism Therefore she is not the Church of Christ The Second Reason maintained BY the word Baptism in the Argument I mean only the Baptism of Water in the Name of the Father c. or which is all one the Baptism of Repentance for the Remission of sins Now that the present Papal Church of Rome hath not this Baptism is evident by this Argument taken from their own Confession viz. The Baptism of the true Church is found in the Scripture But the Baptism of the present Papal Church of Rome is not grounded upon nor mentioned in the Scripture Therefore the present Papal Church of Rome hath no Baptism The first Proposition is most clear from Matth. 28. 19 20. Act. 2. Act. 8. Act. 9. Act. 16. Act. 18. Act. 19. Act. 22. 16. Rom. 6. Gal. 3. 27. Col. 2. 11 12. Heb. 6. 1 2. 1 Pet. 3. 21. And that the Papists Baptism is not found in the Scripture I prove thus Because they themselves do confess that Infant Baptism is not mentioned in the Scripture nor grounded upon the Scripture nor any Scripture for it See to this purpose the Works of Bellarmine and a Book entituled An Antidote written by S. N. a Popish Doctor as also T. B. his End to Controversie In which Books you will find the very words which I have repeated Adde hereunto the Answer which I received from the Author of the Seven Queries when I asked him what Controversies in Religion he could resolve without the written Word of God he assigned Infant Baptism as one that was so to be resolved So then we have it pro confesso from the Papists own mouths That their Baptism which is Infant Baptism is a Scriptureless-Baptism Therefore say I it is no Baptism No Baptism I say because the Church hath but one Baptism of Water and it is mentioned in the Scripture and grounded upon it and much Scripture found for it so is not Infant Baptism which is the Baptism of the present Papal Church Therefore the Papal Baptism is no Baptism How can they defend themselves Will they say the Church hath a Scripture-Baptism and an unwritten Baptism This they must say and prove or else deny their Infant Baptism But secondly The present Papal Church is so adulterated in the manner of the Administration of Baptism as that had they a true subject for Baptism yet they would be found to have no Baptism This will appear as clear as the Light from the Papists own confession for they grant that the antient and primitive way of baptizing was by dipping the party baptized over the head and ears in Water and that it was their Church which changed this way to a little sprinkling upon the forehead This is plainly to be seen in a Book entituled Certamen Religiosum This bold Change which men without any allowance from God have made in this Ministration of Baptism is directly against the Scripture Mat. 3. 16. Mark 15. 9. John 3. 23. Act. 8. 38 39. Rom. 6. In all which places it's evident that our Lord Jesus John Baptist and the other Baptists of those times did so understand the mind of God in respect of the manner of the Administration of Baptism as that they thought it could not be done without so much Water as they might go into both the Person baptizing and the Person to be baptized And now do not all that will presume to satisfie themselves in this thing with a few drops of Water put on the face only from a Man's fingers ends or out of a Glass in the Midwifes pocket lay great folly and ignorance to the charge of Christ and his primitive followers doubtless such as is not less than the folly of that man that hath occasion only for one Gill of Water and he may take it up at the side of the Brook and yet will needs wade into the middle of a River to take it up or a man that hath occasion to wash his hands only which he may perform very commodiously without wetting his foot and yet is so simple that he will needs go into the middle of the River to that purpose especially such a River where there is much Water I say the practice of Sprinkling which the Papists and others use if that answer the mind of God in the case of Baptism doth even thus reflect upon Christ and the Christians in those dayes But let our Saviours practice herein be justified and all such practices as tend to the rendring it ridiculous condemned The Papists only Reserve for the defence of Infant Baptism is this They say it is an Apostolical Tradition that is a Precept delivered by the Apostles Word but not mentioned in their Writings This I shall shew to be utterly false for divers important Reasons First No
hundred years after Christ and if she be not now what she was then in that respect I desire to be informed where that blood-drunken Fornicatrix mentioned Revelation 17. is now to be found The Ninth Reason The present Papal Church hath not those Marks which they themselves assign as the Marks by which the true Church can only be known infallibly Therefore the present Papal Church of Rome is not the Church of Christ Those Marks are 1. ANTIQUITY 2. SUCCESSION 3. VNIVERSALITY of Time and Place 4. VISABILITY 5. SANCTITY 6. VNITY 7. MIRACLES c. These are the Principal The Ninth Reason maintained THat the present Papal Church cannot have the true Mark of Antiquity is thus evidenced viz. The Papal Church is a National Church But no Gospel Church was National in the first Age Therefore no National Church hath the true Mark of Antiquity The strength of this Argument lyeth in the clear difference of the state of the Church under Abraham and Moses to what it was under Christ and his Apostles For The Jewish Church which was to be National took its form in a National way even in the very first Family where it began as appears Gen. 17. where Parents Children and Servants too must all be brought into that Church-state forthwith or not be suffered to co-habit together Which order must be kept in all the Families of the Jews as well in respect of their Servants such as they bought with money as their Children or any other And so the Jewish Church both in its beginning and its continuance acted forth it self in a way suitable to it self But when the Gospel Church began it is very evident that it took its beginning in the division of Families and that by vertue of Christ's Doctrine who affirms That he came to send fire on the Earth not Peace but rather Division For saith he From henceforth there shall be fixâ—â— in one house divided three against two and two against three the Father against the Son and the Son against the Father the Daughter against the Mother and the Mother against the Daughter c. and all this for the Gospel sake Here a man must leave Father Mother Wife and Children For this cause ye shall be betrayed both by Parents and Kinsfolks For this cause the unbelieving Husband will put away his believing Wife And for this cause the Servant may refuse to follow his unbelieving Master being Christ's freeman and yet dwell in his Service as a Servant notwithstanding Thus it 's evident That the Gospel-Church took its beginning in a way quite contrary to the Form of a National Church even by turning the World or Church of the Jews up-side down which caused the Jews to cry out MEN OF ISRAEL HELP This is yet more evident by that thundring Doctrine of the Baptist when he said Think not or begin not to say within your selves We have Abraham to our Father No saith Paul We meaning the Gospel-Church which are of Faith are the Seed of Abraham and Heirs according to Promise For the Promise which chiefly is enjoyed in the Gospel was not made to such as were born after the Flesh but such as are born after the Spirit Whereupon he saith We henceforth know No man after the Flesh or because he descends from the loins of Abraham or any other For if any man be in Christ so as to be a demonstrable or visible Member of his Gospel-Church he is a new-creature Old things are passed away yea the old priviledge of standing in the Church by the Father's interest though the Seed of Abraham himself is now passed behold all things in this respect are become new Whereupon Peter contributeth his sentence and saith Of a truth I perceive God is no respecter of Persons but the Persons accepted upon a Gospel-account so as to be his Church are such as in every Nation fear him and work Righteousness which no Infant can do But what Hath God rejected Infants wholly that now he will not shew them so much favour as afore-time God forbid He hath not shut up his tender Mercies from them wholly or in part For as they are such and dying in their infancy through Adam's transgression so in Christ shall they be made alive Wherefore look how far soever they fall in the first man of the Earth so far they shall be restored by the Lord from Heaven yea the Gift to them by Christ shall exceed the Loss they had by Adam But if they live to years of understanding and become actual sinners against God then the way appointed for the remission of their sins is to repent and be baptized every one of them that they may receive the holy Ghost and so be by it led into all Truth and attain at the end the salvation of their souls through Jesus Christ our Lord. Another Argument whereby it appears the Church of Christ cannot be National is this No man is bound to become a Christian under pain of corporal punishment as Death c. but living peaceably as men no man hath power to compel them to be baptized or to walk in the Christian Profession as is clear from the Texts before recited Now take away Force in matters of Religion and a National Church cannot stand in an absolute National Form this all experience can testifie Again That the Church of Christ at the first or in the first Ages was not National in the first method or way wherein a Church beginneth to be so namely by the admission of Infants into the Church is very evident because it is utterly incredible that the many thousands of Infants of such as in those dayes believed should be admitted into the Church and not so much as the whisper of such a thing to be found in all the holy Writings of the Apostles And beside I have shewed from the Testimony of Vives Augustines Commentor That the Church had not the custom to baptize Infants in old time It is likewise certain if History be true That the gospel-Gospel-Church used no compulsion in matters of Faith for more than three hundred years after Christ About which time Constantine ordained grievous punishments for such as spake against Christ and allowed the Christians to use the Unbelievers hardly But God did not bless these doings for Constantine became an Arrian Heretick and persecuted the Bishop that baptized him as also others that continued faithful Hence then I conclude That seeing the present Papal Church of Rome hath not the true Mark of Antiquity Therefore they lose at once the next three Succession Universality and Visibility For Antiquity being wanting no true Succession can be found because the Root of Succession if good must be the Antiquity of it So take Antiquity from them and then wanting that first Age they cannot be found in every Age and not being found in every Age especially the first Age then they lose Visibility as themselves propose it for a Mark of
avouch the Answer which I have given to this your first Query as will evidently appear to the impartial Reader of the several Quotations which I have before alledged and which do here follow The ANSWER to the FIRST QUERY Avouched sufficient by the Sentence of divers DOCTORS both Antient and Modern VVHether of us be Schismaticks ask not me I will not ask you Let Christ be asked that he may shew us his Church Neither must I alledge the Nicene Council nor you the Arimi I am neither bound to the one nor you to the other let the matter be tryed by the Scripture Augustine saith Let the Scriptures judge let Christ judge let the Apostles judge Yea it is confessed by the Papists that Aug. Optatus and Basil summoned their Adversaries to the arbitriment of holy Scriptures and did allow the sufficiency of holy Scripture to decide the Controversies depending between them In time past saith Chrysostome there were many wayes to know the Church of Christ viz. by good Life by Miracles by Chastity c. but from the time that Heresies did take hold of the Church it IS ONLY known by the Scripture which is the true Church Again he saith The Lord then knowing that so great confusion would come in the latter dayes therefore willed the Christians that would take to the sureness of true Faith to have refuge to nothing but to the Scripture otherwise saith he if they regard other things they shall perish not understanding what the true Church is Thus my Answer is avouched good as it respects the means to decide the differences which are about the Church Next hear what they say touching such differences as are in the Church Iren. If there be any disagreement risen up among Christians concerning Controversies in Religion what better course is there to be taken than to have our recourse into the Most antient Churches which must needs be those planted by the Apostles considering the time when he lived and to receive from thence what shall be certain and manifest Augustine Because the Scripture cannot deceive whoso feareth to be misled in the obscurity of this Question let him ask COUNSEL of that Church which the SCRIPTURE without any ambiguity pointeth out Constantine Mag. There are the Gospel the Prophets and Apostles which do teach us what to hold in Religion wherefore expelling all hostile and bitter contention let us seek the Solution of these Questions out of the Scriptures Thus spake this famous Emperor in the Council of Nice at what time the Bishops had like to have jarred into pieces THus have I given an impartial Relation of what hath passed between the Popish Querist and my Self in our two last Papers which contains the sum of what passed in the other as touching this Question about the Judge of Controversies And now for further satisfaction That the Scripture as aforesaid ought to be admitted the high Prerogative of Judge in our Debates consider that of necessity it must be so My reason is because either the Scripture or some other Writings must be our Judge especially in this important Question WHICH IS THE TRUE CHURCH For when we contend about her it is very unreasonable that any party contending for that title should be permitted to give Judgment in their own cause As for example The present Assembly of Papists say That they are the true Church and the present Assemblies of Baptists say That they are the true Church Is it fit that either party contending should here give Judgment decissive What then must we do why of necessity we must to some Writings whereby to be decided or agreed in this Controversie These Writings must be either the Scriptures or some other but no other can compare with those so that they do deserve this Prerogative better than any other The Papists ordinary way in this difficulty is to tell us that we must here be tryed by the Tradition of our Fore-fathers in which they say we cannot be deceived which Tradition they say is the only thing that is unquestionable and needs no other ground to stand upon but it self And against the Scripture's being received upon its own evidence or authority they usually do thus object that before we can receive what it teacheth we must be assured of its truth And again they say the Scripture may not be the Judge of Controversie because it may be corrupted translated ill interpreted not rightly understood And by these and other like objections they usually in all their Writings invalidate the Scriptures certainty authority and sufficiency that so they advance the authority of their Traditions But let it be seriously considered whether these Objections have not the same force against what they rest upon which they have against the holy Scripture First then whereas they tell us the Scripture cannot teach us any thing till we be assured of its truth Doth not this conclude against any other thing as strongly Ought we not to be assured of the truth of the Church before we receive her documents Ought we not to be assured of the truth of that Tradition which we receive for the Rule of our Faith But how must we be assured of the truth of the Papal Church and Tradition There is not a man living that can remember when either began and so avouch its beginning to be of divine Institution and the continnance of the same ever since its beginning to have been without any corruption What then must we do Why we must search Romes Records And then I ask are they not as questonable and liable to mis-interpretations as easily mis-understood as the Records of God What is now become of these Objections the force whereof is evidently against the Papal Church and her Traditions of the truth whereof we must be assured BEFORE we can be taught by either of them I say again There is not a man of all the Papists that can evidence Rome to have been a Church two hundred years ago and then much less one thousand six hundred years ago So that OF NECESSITY we must to the Writings of some men whom we never saw write one word to find the Church And then I would know why we may not make enquiry at the Pen of Paul what the Church was at first and what it ought to be now as well as at the Pen of Augustine Cannot the Pen of Peter the Apostle give us as good information in this matter as the Pen of any Pope pretending to be his Successor If the Papists answer That we know not the Pen of Peter or Paul We answer as well as they know the Pen of Augustine or Gregory If they say Paul's Writings may be corrupted and must be interpreted may be mis-understood I return the same Answer of all other Books whatsoever yea those which contains Romes Tradition See therefore what is gained by devising objections against the authority or certainty of the holy Scriptures Such
doings do only tend to the destruction of all Faith making every thing doubtful and the effect is the ushering in of all uncleanness on the one hand or if men miss this snare they are catched in another viz. to walk at random as their own or other mens fancy leads them This is evident by what we have seen in the Ranters on the one hand and the Papists and Quakers on the other Let us trace this matter a little further thus The Papists Traditions most if not all of which have been committed to Writing several hundreds of years ago must speak for themselves are unquestionable of themselves must challenge no ground but themselves to stand upon But the sacred Scripture which hath especial Promise from God for its preservation Psal 12. must have none of these high priviledges allowed it Is not this a most peccant Assertion Again Peter and Paul must be no Judges of Controversies in Religion as they speak to us in their Epistles but the Popes of Rome dead long ago and now only speak in their Writings yet they must be our infallible Judges in these Controversies The great Council of Apostles Elders and Brethren Acts 15. can be no Judge of any Controversie though their Decrees are yet extant among us but the Council of Trent who only speak in their Decrees must be our Judge and that so as from their Judgments no appeal can be admitted The Apostolical Council sends forth their Decrees in the Name of the holy Ghost and themselves and in those their Decrees they prohibit the eating of blood and strangled things c. But the Papal Councils will send forth a Decree directly opposite to this and yet sign'd with these powerful words Visum est Spiritui Sancto nobis If we appeal in this matter to the Apostolical Council they may not be permitted to pronounce a Sentence decissive But from the sentence of the Papal Council we must in no wise appeal Can any thing be said more unworthily Thus then First the godly Reader may perceive That whether he be able to answer all the cunning Objections that men by reason of the long experience they have had in the wayes of deceit have found out yet he hath an Argument of NECESSITY wherewith to oppose their subtilty And Secondly he hath the advantage of all their own objections against themselves yea against their Church Tradition and all that they stand upon Being seasonably retorted upon them Wherefore I shall conclude with the Psalmist's words Psal 64. 5 6 7 8 9. They encourage themselves in an evil matter they commune of laying snares privily they say Who shall see them They search out iniquities they accomplish a diligent search both the inward thoughts of every one of them and the heart is deep But God shall shoot at them with an arrow suddenly shall they be wounded So they shall make their own tongues to fall upon themselves all that see them shall flee away And all men shall fear and shall declare the work of God for they shall wisely consider of his doings THE SECOND PART SHEWETH That the present Papal Church of Rome is not the Church of Christ for divers important Causes or Reasons VVE have heard of how dangerous a Consequence that Papal Opinion is which leads them to set up their own Authority under pretence of their being the Church above the holy Scripture insomuch as they allow it no Authority till it be delivered to us for God's Word by their Church so that by this Doctrine we must find their Church before we can find the Word of God as it is contained in the Scripture Upon which Consideration we shall endeavour to shew That the present Papal Church is not the true Church of Christ and therefore what Power soever the Church hath yet they cannot have it Because they are not the Church of Christ The First Reason The present Papal Church of Rome cannot possibly prove her self to be the Church of Christ Therefore she is not the Church of Christ The First Reason maintained THe Consequence of the Argument no understanding man can deny for unless a party pretending to be the Church of Christ can some wayes sufficiently prove that they are his Church they cannot reasonably blame any body that refuses so to account of them And for the Antecedent namely that it is impossible for the present Papal Church to prove her self the Church of Christ it is evident from this ground viz. They make both the Scripture and all other Writings depend on their Church for their Authority and therefore they must prove themselves to be the Church without the help of any authentical or authoritative Writings which thing is impossible for them to do Being thus divested of the help of all Records as is more fully shewed above there remains now nothing for them to lean upon but their own Evidence or the Tradition of their Fore-fathers not that which is contained in any Records but only that which hath been delivered by word from man to man c. But alas what Tradition is this they speak of Not the Tradition of the Church to us till the persons delivering the same be found to be the Church which as before they cannot be found to be without the Scripture And for their own Evidence that may not prove them to be the Church to those that contend with them it cannot avail them sith each party contending in this case will and may as reasonably as the Papists look that their own Testimony should be as available for these as the other for those It is as vain here to tell us they are the Church because the true marks of the Church do agree to the Papal Church and none else For first the true marks of the Church are confessed by the Papists to be found in the Scripture which Scripture they receive not but from the authority of their Church yea their present Church so that till the Scripture can tell us authoritatively which be the marks of the Church no Church can be found by those marks nor can the Scripture tell us of those marks authoritatively till Rome as a Church give it us for God's Word So then Rome must be found the Church before there be any marks to find her by which is impossible As for example To clear this matter further the Papists say That Holiness is a mark of the true Church But now set the Holy Scripture aside and how shall I know holiness from unholiness without the Scripture Here the Papists being in a strait rather than they will let the Law of God or the Scripture have the preheminence do Answer thus That we have a Law in our Consciences which dictates what is good and what is otherwise and by this Law even a Heathen may judge our Church holier than any other Congregations of Christians What a miserable plunge of Heathenism or Quakerism are they brought to here How do they know