cleared by a new rise of the Sun A. S. his 5th Consideration saith That the five Ministers do blame all Protestant Churches as not having the power of godliness and the profession thereof with difference from carnall and formall Christians advanced and held forth among them as among you which is commonly thought to be particularly intended against the Scots M. S. Sure it is no otherwise commonly thought to be particularly intended against the Scots and generally to blame all Protestant Churches then in or by your common sense deriving species vain seemings to your phantasie from your outward senses an evill eye ill affected For the Apologie calls our dear brethren the Scots the more reformed Churches And for the words all and among you whereby you would present them setting themselves as an opposite member of distinction to all Protestant Churches and blaming them all as undistinguished from carnall and formall Christians in comparison of them and their five Churches the words all and you are forged and foysted in by your self and so must go for very falshoods charged upon them The words of the Apologie are 1. That Apol. p. 4. they and many others had but observed touching the non-advance of the power of godliness c. among some what themselves had generally acknowledged The five Ministers do not charge it but repeat it as confessed by themselves 2. It is not said it was confessed and they observed there was no power of godliness but iâ— was not advanced 3. Nor is it said it was not advanced but not advanced as in this our Island This Island being a common phrase yea and your phrase too in the title of your Book to signifie Scotland and England both And then where is that particular intendment against Scotland or the five Ministers laying their Churches in the ballance against other Churches Fourthly and lastly they speake but indefinitely in a contingent matter and therefore can bee construed but of some particulars and therefore did not ayme at all You know how highly they esteeme of New-England and therefore that is not excluded from the advance of the power of godlinesse as in this Island of great Britaine English and Scots are included However as no man that is a knowing man either by hearsay or travell over the next Sea will accuse Scotland as most carnall and formall it were well for the world if in that c. others had not farre exceeded them so none of us except Pharisees will excuse our Nations of remisnesse in advancing the power of godlinesse in apparent view above carnalitie and formalitie You see by our answer to the Apologie that not that Apologie but your will caused you to speake that which is not by wise men once to bee mentioned at this time as if the Apologists intended to say any the least thing to grieve our brethren the Scots A. S. his seventh Consideration for the sixth is non-sense unlesse we put the interrogatorie point at Anabaptists and so A. S. to take unto him and them hee ranks himselfe with all calling them us I say to take to him and them the Brownists and Anabaptists to be of his partie Reader view his sixth Consideration whether you can make sense of it I cannot nor any thing of consequence therefore answer not unto it his seventh Consideration I say interrogates thus Many are desirous to know whether this Apologeticall Narration published by you five alone be in the name of your five alone or of all those also or apart of those whom ye pretend to hold your tenets if in the name of you five onely whether ye five can arrogate a power unto you selves to maintaine these tenets as the constant opinion of all your Churches having no generall confession of their faith thereabouts If in the name of all the rest we desire you would shew your Commission from all your Churches c. M. S. Good Reader doe but turne about these interrogatories and put them to A. S. and put A. S. in stead of the five Ministers and you may kill Goliah with his owne sword if five Ministers have arrogated in the Apol. one A. S. much more in his Reply If A. S. doth not like the conversion we answer positively 1. It 's no arrogating for any Christian upon just occasion to make his confession of faith 2. The confession of faith in doctrine that is in all the best reformed Churches is theirs For one touching pure Discipline it was not found in Scotland whiles the tyrannie of the Bishops prevailed Whiles things are in fieri a wise man will not expect them in facto esse Faith may bee when confession dares not appeare A. S. is angry with that confession of faith in the Apologie and hath opened the mouthes of many others as we heare ready to barke too at it they doe but stay their turnes why then doth he call for more confession 3. The godly learned Fathers Tertullian Justin Martyr c. produced no authority from men to Apologize for the truth the Scripture they Apologized for bore them out 4. The Parliament allow the five Ministers more viz. to shew their reasons therefore the lesse to shew their opinion 5. A thousand and a thousand good Christians were glad to heare how the five Ministers dissented from the rigid Separation and closed with the best reformed Churches the sole businesse of the Apologie in effect and thought that no good Protestants would have beene sorry for them A. S. His eight Consid interrogates the five Ministers thus Whether yee desire a toleration for you five alone in your marke your Religion for all the rest Item if a toleration in publick in erecting of Churches apart or to live quietly without troubling of the State As for the last appearingly ye may have it unsought But for the rest the Parliament is wise enough and knoweth what is convenient for the Church of God M. S. An Apologie for the Apologists Church-way Toleration properly so called is saith learned Capel of things unlawfull His words are The Law I know permitted usury to the Jewes to the stranger what of that It followes the rather yet it is of it selfe a sinne because permission is of sinnes not of duties Cap. Tempt of Vsury We are not friend A. S. come to that yet To yeeld the one or beg the other Wee challenge it as your duty that are Protestants to allow us our liberty that are Protestants and hold with you in Doctrine and Discipline also in substance the difference being an accident 1. The quantitie you would have it extended to Colloquies provinciall Classes c. over every Church which appeares not in Scripture either name or thing Wee would have it bounded within every particular Church made up to competent hundreds with a sufficiencie of Church Officers for parts and number And 2. Necessity of constraint for in appeales you would cite and constraine men to appeare before the said Colloquies Classes c.
Churches more holy then the Congregationall they are far more guilty of Schisme and Separation then their Brethren here spoken of For then they are at liberty in point of conscience to come over and joyn with them when as the other are in bands and fetters of conscience and cannot pass unto them Their Brethren would gladly come over unto them but cannot they can come over unto these but will not It is the will not the act that makes Schisme and Separation Fourthly we do not see as deep as you have laid the charge wherein the Apologists do any whit more symbolize with Convents Monasteries or Orders amongst the Papists then you and your friends You tell them that all their Churches believe one Doctrine together with you and that every one of these Churches hath one Minister as the Popish Convents a particular Abbot or Prior. Wee pray you do not all your Churches believe one Doctrine together and hath not every one of your Churches one Minister Wherein then lies the difference between you and them or wherein do they symbolize more with Convents or Monasteries then your self Nay fifthly and lastly as if you had quite forgotten your rhomb you tacitely couple your self with those Popish Convents Monasteries and Orders in one ignoble consideration from which you acquit your Brethren They only differ say you to them in this that yee have no Generall or any thing answerable thereunto to keep you in unity and conformity plainly implying that your Presbyterians have viz. their soveraign Judicatory So that if this your reason should but take place and be held valid it is your Presbyterian party not the party Apologizing that ought to suffer the non-toleration you speak of it being they not these that are the great symbolizers with St Francis and St Dominick To your twelfth Reason we have given answer upon answer formerly His 12. Reason answered as first where we considered of the examples of the Kings of Judah and shewed how little they contribute to the claim of coercive power in the Magistrate to take away Heresies Schismes Superstitions c. Secondly where we argued against such a power by severall demonstrations Thirdly where we gave an account also how Toleration is no way either to Schisme Heresie c. So that that there is not one apex or ieta of this Reason remaining unanswered The Logico-Divinity of your thirteenth Reason consisteth in this His 13. Reason Answered Enthymeme If we have but one God one Christ and one Lord one Spirit one Faith one Baptisme whereby we enter into the Church and are one Body we ought to have one Communion whereby to be spiritually fed and one Discipline to be ruled by and if so then ought not the Apologists to be tolerated We answer that neither doth your inference or conclusion here at all follow from your premisses We have all you speak of one one and one and in regard of that multiplied unitie we ought as you say to have one Communion and one Discipline But first not necessarily that Communion or that Discipline which are of Classique inspiration no more then those which are either of Papall or Episcopall recommendation because though wee judge these two latter spirits more sphalmaticall erroneous and dangerous then the first yet wee cannot think that either the Pope or Bishops or both together have so ingrossed the spirit of erreour and fallibility but that they have left of that anointing more then enough to initiate all other Orders Societies and Professions of men in the world Secondly though wee ought to have one Communion and Discipline yet ought wee to be led into this unity by the hand of an Angel of light not to be frighted into it by an evill angel of fear and terrour Thirdly that duty which lies upon all Christians to have but one Communion and Discipline amongst them is no dispensation unto any party or number of them to smite their Brethren with the fist of uncharitableness or to dismount them from their ministeriall standings in the Church because they will not or rather cannot knit and joyn in the same Communion and Discipline with them Nay fourthly that very tye of duty which lies upon all Christians to have but one and the same Communion and Discipline amongst them carries this ingagement upon them all along with it to shew all love to use all manner of gentleness and long suffering towards those that are contrary minded to them either in the one or in the other since love is not only a sodering and uniting affection but further commends the person in whom it is found as one to whom God hath appeared and who hath been taught by him Therefore fifthly and lastly to make the ingagement that lies upon all Christians to have but one Communion and Discipline a ground and reason why such as differ from others about these should be evill intreated suppressed kept under hatches or the like is as if a man should plead that naturall affection which a parent ows unto his children for a ground and motive why he should sharply scourge them when they are sick and weak His fourteenth Reason is of an unknown strength at least to me His 14. Reason answered If I were a Magistrate I should never the more know how to prepare to battell against the Apologists or any other godly person for the sound of this trumpet Surely of all the rest this Reason will never be accessary to the undoing of these men However let a poor man be heard in his cause The Reason then with all the help it is capable of riseth up but thus If Churches have Disciplines or Governments different in their species then the Churches must be different in their species also But the consequent is false since there is but one Church Ergo Apologisme is intolerable They that can gather this conclusion out of the premisses may very well hope to gather Grapes of Thorns and Figs of Thistles The consequent in this argument which the Disputer saith is false is this Churches must be different in their species If the meaning of this consequent be that there is an absolute necessity that Churches should differ specie one from another the Disputant is in the truth in saying the consequent is false Or if the meaning be that Churches ought to differ specie one from another the same verdict may still pass upon it But upon that supposition which is made in the Antecedent of this argument viz. that these Churches have Disciplines or Governments different in their species the consequent is not only true but necessarily true and that upon the Disputants own ground which is that all collective bodies that are governed are differenced specie by their different governments But be the Consequent or be the Antecedent or be the Consequence be any thing be nothing or be every thing in the premisses either true or false why shoâ—â—d not the Apologists be tolerated notwithstanding Be
reprove all and so all are ready to be offended that are lesse reformed We have heard of sad stories of late but true not teld in a corner of the lamentable over-spreading of Popery Atheisme drunkennesse in some kingdomes and adulterie formality c. in others If we reforme but in part by halves imitating Hen. 8. towards the Pope cutting off the head of Prelacie and sitting down in their Chaire similia non sunt contraria as Mr Davenport meeting with a Classicall Presbytery in his way to New-England said they were but thirteen Bishops for one the cry of the sin against our light and opportunity will call back our reeling Reformation like will hasten to like an unblest posture will leave us unhealed of our sins and our sins will make us become any thing Had not the Abbeys been pulled downe the Priories since had had opportunity to have risen Therefore Moses grinds the Idol to powder that it might be quite abolished I speak all this by way of supposition what shall upon full debate be found to be the Idol the nest of Popery the Chair of Prelacy the half-reformation Thus of your charging the five Ministers with dissenting from all Protestant Churches The expression that follows is a most grosse one That they differ from all Christian Churches I say grosse in two things 1. To call them Churches and Christian that are not Protestant and ergo are Popish now since the Councell of Trent wherein they gave Christ a bill of divorce as the learned assert anathematizing most of his main truths The Popish notwithstanding a few Saints in secret here and there are in a dependance on Antichrist 2. To charge it as a crime on the five Ministers to differ from them when as it is a sin and shame not to dissent from them If you dissent not from them you will never kindly dissent from the intituled Mo. R. A. BB. and Rt. Rev. BB. I observe that men in their Replies secretly afore they are aware ☜ run to the Popish markes of a Church viz. Visibility Succession Vniversalitie A. S. You as my selfe are but men yet ye know but in part and consequently may erre M. S. Yet this one man thinks he hath more knowledge to his part then the other five Ministers or else sure he would not so boldly condemne them of erring in a point which all the Assembly have not yet determined and so peremptorily acquit himself A. S. I thought this which is the question between you and all the Churches in the Christian world M. S. This untruth comes thick upon us that the Apol. differs from all the Christian world It is intimated in the title It is expressed in the very beginning of the Epistle and here againe and once more in 3. pag. of the Epist and once in Consid 5. and how oft more in the book I doe not yet know till I find as I goe We have answered it once for all in the threshold of this Epistle A. S. I esteemed it no lesse a part of my dutie and Christian libertie as a man to oppose my selfe to five men then for five men to oppose five hundred thousand c. M. S. Hear ye O all ye men on earth that A. S. saith it is his Christian liberty to oppose the five Ministers but the whole scope of his booke is to rebuke them upon supposition that they doe oppose others whiles they tell them wherein they agree with them One instance follows at the heâ—l of his Christian liberty to which by and by Mean while Reader observe how this mans words do smell popishly though I think the man to be a real Protestant as if they came from Rome intimating as if visibilitie universalitie and so pluralitie of voyces of learned men might be an unerring or very certain argument He speaks as if he had forgot or never heard of Wickliff many yeares after him Husse long after him Luther justly opposing the whole world as we all religiously maintain at this day And that one Paphnutius opposed a whole Councel mistaken in a point which is upon record of History to his great honour to this day A. S. Five men to oppose so many learned men so many holy Divines hundreds and thousands for one of you no way inferiour to the learnedest and best among you and not only to particular men and Divines but to so many yea and those the most pure and most reformed Churches of the world amongst whom there have been found so many thousands who have sealed Christs truth with the losse of their goods imprisonment of their bodies by exile of their persons yea with their dearest blood and lives who if they wrote not miracles yet God declared his almighty power in working miracles about them c. M. S. Here we have in forme and I will not say how much more a Popish argument I will not say a mopish argument I abhor flying on men instead of matter To this I will speake and then they that will be deceived let them be deceived First you * Doctrines and practises prove men good not men doctrines and practises good dub such a number of men and people Saints most reformed learned no way inferiour to the learnedst and best among the five Ministers as if you knew perfectly all mens spirits mens lives in all places in the world and the five Ministers parts c. intus incute Then secondly as before you came what R. Reverend and most Reverend I desire to speake it no other way then with a Christian griefe and anger against such Sophismes so now you Cant to us as it were the Popish Prelaticall Letanie and Te Deum As if by the temptations and fastings by the passions by the deaths and burialls of suffering Christians The noble army of Martyrs praising the holy Church throughout all the world acknowledging you would conjure us to yeeld any thing upon pluralitie of voyces or topick arguments that may are turned every way and used by all sorts good and bad for their owne waies 1. Men living in a notorious sinne of grosse usury unjust enclosures monopolizing c. First They will tell you of severall Ministers c. very holy men and then secondly They will tell you that those Ministers doe approve of those things 2. The Malignants now cry that so many good Lords so many Parliament men most of two Kingdomes are for the King Ergo the King doth well beleeve it who so will The Papists proclaime that they have pluralitie of voyces Martyrs c. Ergo they are in the right So the Prelacie tell us that of Bishops were many Martyrs to which Smâ—ctymnuus answers by them was composed the Liturgie and they have a thousand for one of them so they had formerly and most of the learned Doctors c. Scholars Divines and Lawyers were for them therefore they were in the right Then some of our respected brethren of the reputed godly
For which there is not the least in the Scriptures we would have a free voluntary recourse out of conscience to the brotherly advise of neighbour Churches or a Synod dogmatically to declare Christs minde unto us and in case of refusall to submit to their judgement having no ground in Scripture to refuse the Advising Churches to renounce communion with the offending Church and the particular Church to pronounce excommunication against their offending brother So that the difference is not in ente sed modo not in the thing but the manner rather We say therefore it is your duty to give us our own our liberty as much if not more as we to let you alone whiles both parties avouch that they are unconvinced as yet of a possibility of a neerer agreement We know not of the least clause of a sentence or peece of an example in all the Scriptures for any to constrain mens consciences by outward violence positively to act contrary to their principles conscientiously held or for any to yeeld thereunto We have many passages to the contrary in Scripture The Amorites gently intreated Abraham and his family and were confederate with them Gen. 14. 13. So did the Philistines or men of Gerar Gen. 20. And before both the Egiptians Gen. 12. 19. So did the men of Gerar deale with Isaac Gen. 26. The Sechemites said they would kindly intreat Jacob and his sons because they were peaceable Gen. 34. 20 c. The Egiptians appoint Goshen for the Israelites to dwell peaceably in the midst of Egypt The Chaldeans or Babylonians at length allow the Jewes the libertie of their religion with all accommodations thereunto Nehem. and Ezra throughout Compare 2 Chron. 36. The Romans likewise bare with the Jewes and their Judaisme for many yeares both before and after Christs time How much more therefore should Protestants beare with Protestants who have spent their estates and blood in winning their joint liberty from the common enemy Atheists Papists Neuters Prelats c. Christs rule is to win men by instruction and not to force men with destruction in matters of religion Matth. 10. 14 15. v. 27 28. Luke 9. 54. 1 Cor. 7. 23. 2 Tim. 2. 24 25. 2 Tim. 4. 1 2 3 4. with infinite more places Nor doe we find in Scripture persecution to be raised by the Iewish Church against Religion but onely when the divinely instituted ceremonies which had got such esteem in the Iewes hearts were about to be taken downe by the preaching of the libertie of the Gospel and a spirituall worship unknown as yet to the whole world For in the Iewish Church before and in Christ and the Apostles times 1. were the Sadduces Matth. 16. 1. who denied the resurrection Angels and Spirits Acts 23. 8. 2. The Pharisees Matth. 23. who though they confessed those held Fate Free-will and humane Traditions See Ioseph lib. 3. and Chem. in exam Conc. Trident. part p. 20. on 1 Tim. 5. 23. 1 Tim. 4. 3. Coloss 2. 3. The Assideans Chasidim or Good men Rom. 5. 7. which Assideans mentioned in the Apocrypha 1 Maccab. 7. 13. are translated by Joseph 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Good men lib 12. cap. 16. who studied to adde to the Scriptures and professed to be holy above the law 4. The Essenes who held it unlawfull to drink wine forbad marriage and commanded those dogmata therefore Coloss 2. the Apostle useth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 being the Esseans words Touch not tast not handle not because the junior Esseans might not touch the Elders or Seniors nor might tast save onely bread salt water and hyssop 5. The Pythagoreans who held that the soule of the last departed rose in the body of the next that was born Herod seems to be of this opinion Mat. 14. 1 2. See the Geneva notes on that place yet we find no publick persecution raised by the Jewish Church against these or of these one against another So in the Church of Corinth were divers odde and some dangerous opinions as doubting of the resurrection to come conceiving it to be past already yet no persecution moved against them So in the Church of Galatia so in the 7. Churches of Asia The Churches force not them that are without by persecution but are rebuked for not excommunicating or neglect of convincing and reproving them that are within For later times if the Turks allow Christians that are peaceable the liberty of their conscience both Greeks English c. and the Spaniards Germans c. permit the Jewes no wonder if the Low-countrey-men permit severall opinions of Protestants among them We are worse then the Indians if we should not deale kindly with orthodox Christians We justly abhor the ten persecutions against the injustice whereof Aristides Justinus Mileto Sardensis Apollinaris Athenagoras Tertullianus and others wrote Apologies in behalfe of Christian religion And we justly abhor the Spanish inquisition the English Marian persecutions and the Bishops high Commission against all which many worthy men have writ learnedly And we have seen the event of endevouring to force conscience in matter of opinion or worship On the one side in England it made many thousands of hypocrits Church-papists time-servers c. And on the other side in Holland and Scotland it justly caused State-insurrections and for the same reason wee also are legally now up in arms to obtaine assurance that we shall have the liberty of conscience and law I speak not this as if on the one hand I did now charge this upon the intentions of the State God forbid His meliora spere But onely I seasonably answer A. S. and prevent what I can anyes turning A. Ssians in their opinions or instigations I hope it shall never be known in the world that ever any persecuted the miscalled Separatists or Independents that are sound in opinion pure in discipline and holy in practice save onely Papists and Prelaticall men These were the first and I hope shall be the last that ever persecuted the Saints of the most high Nor on the other hand do I speak this as to intimate that I a prove a toleration of the broaching of all opinions or any toleration of some practises 1. The least venting of any opinion against fundamentalls as Judaisme denying Christ to be the true Mâ—ssiâ—s Arrianisme and Socinianisme opposing the Deity of Jesus Christ Arminianisme that questions the person of the Holy Ghost Papisme holding Justification by works or that Anabaptisme that denies the derivation of Adams originall corruption to us and the power of Christs grace to be conveyed to us without any spirituall power of our free will falsly supposed to be in us or of the like opinions ought to be suppressed by due proportion to that rule That no man or Prophet c. might intice his kindred friend or neighbour to Idolatry on pain of death Deut. 13. 1. to 12. much less is the practice of Idolatry or any impiety
another crown of glory to them But let us first see what that executive or coercive if it be lawfull to Sect. 2 cut A. S. a syllable shorter power is which the man with both hands and an importune bounty will needs bestow upon the Civill Magistrate 2 By what authority and upon what grounds he doth it For the first hee describes and states this power after this manner pag. 6. The Parliament pretends no Directive power in matters of Religion nor any executive power that is intrinsecall to the Church but only an executive coercitive and externall power which is not in but about the Church and for the Church whereby it compelleth refractory men to obey the Church And this authority belongs actually and in effect in actu exercito as they say to true Christian Magistrates but to others potentially in actu signato and jure in rem only till they become true Christians c. In this description the man is to me a Barbarian his own phrase to Sect. 3 the Apologists in the word Church I have bestowed thoughts more then a few to be partners with him in his notion of the word but quanto plus cogito eo minus capio For shame A. S. out with the beam of obscurity from your own eye before you tiffle again to pull the moat of obscurity out of your brothers eye A man in reason would think that the same word being used four or five times and that without the least intimation of any variety or difference of signification almost within the compasse of so many lines were still meant and to be taken in one and the same sense If so then ha with you The Parliament by that coercitive power which you are pleased here to bestow upon it by way of compensation for that directive power which you take from it compelleth say you refractory men to obey the Church I presume that by the Church here you do not mean all the particular Churches and Congregations in the kingdome in the folio of their respective members but in the decimo sexto of their Synod representative Assembly If you take the word in the former sense you only say that the Parliament hath power to compell the refractory to obey all the particular Churches with their severall members in the Kingdome which is a sense I conceive at as much defiance with your ends as with your and our understandings If you take it in the latter which I doubt not but is your beloved sense then your meaning is that the use and intent of that executive coercive power in matters of Religion which you put into the Parliaments hands is to compell the kingdome in case it be refractory or tot quot to obey the Presbyterie and Presbyteriall assemblies in all their Canons Determinations and Decrees whatsoever without bail or mainprise without mercy or compassion whether a man findes sap sense savour reason or Religion in them or no. But yet secondly I know not well how you should mean the Sect. 4 Church contracted in her Grand Presbyterie or Generall Assembly neither first because you affirm in this coercive power in the Parliament to be not in but about the Church and for the Church And I doubt your meaning is not that the Parliament should either only or chiefly work or act with this their coercive power upon your Ecclesiastique Assemblies to restrain and keep them within compass though I confess if it should move only or chiefly in this sphere it would be more for the Church i. for the good and benefit of the Church in generall then to suffer such assemblies to fit and impose oaths upon men to obey their acts orders and decrees which you tell us glorying in your shame pag. 42. is done in your Presbyteriall Government and to punish or crush those that shall have more conscience then to inslave themselves unto them in such a way And 2. if by Church you should here mean the Church representative as it is more commonly then properly called in her generall Assembly you would be a little more open then I conceive will well stand with your principles in such cases For then your meaning is plainly this That the Parliament hath that executive coercive power which you ascribe to it not for the Church i. the benefit of the Saints and servants of God throughout the kingdome but for the benefit and behoof of the Ecclesiastique Presbyteries and Assemblies only Now however I can easily believe that thus you would have it yet I conceive it somewhat eccentricall to your other motions to profess it And yet 3. when you immediately adde that in vertue of this authority when parties pretend to be effended by the Church or if the Church judge any thing amiss hee the civill Magistrate may command the Church to revise and examine its judgement c. You must needs mean your transcendent Church of Presbyters otherwise you should prevaricate and grant a judiciary power to particular Congregations 4. And lastly in the very next page pag. 7. to represent the voluntary Sect. 5 exile of the Apologists with as hard-favour'd an aspect in the eyes of men as he could his indignation against it utters it self in this Patheticall strain over the poor Church of God in this Kingdome And if they all had fled away what might have become of the poor Church of God in this Kingdome c. Here by the Church of God in this Kingdome he cannot mean the Ecclesiastique Church of representing Presbyters because if these had all fled away there had been no Church of God in such a sense in this Kingdome By the Church of God in this place if he means any thing like a man hee must needs mean the godly part in the Kingdom and that considered without their Presbyters or Pastours And oh that hee and his coopinatory party would but grant that that executive coercive power which is in the civil Magistrate is for this Church I mean for the benefit and peace of this Church of God But in the mean time you see that his Trumpet in the Description he gives of his executive coercive externall power in the Magistrate gives no distinct sound perhaps he blew wild on purpose lest an enemy should know how to prepare to battaile against him But is there never a blessing of reason or truth in all this cluster Come and see In vertue of this authoritie saith he when parties pretend to be offended Sect. 6 with the Church or the Church judge any thing amisse he the Civill Magistrate may command the Church to examine its judgement c. In these few words he hath plainly plundred and undone a very considerable partie of his owne beloved notions elsewhere For 1. What reason hath he to be so invective against the Apologists as he is pag. 49. and 50. for holding that Kings or civill Magistrates are above the Church when as himselfe here professeth that they may command the Church especially
his own Maxime elsewhere being this that Par in parem non habet imperium and that Where there is no Superiour or Inferiour there can be no obedience or disobedience Non huc non illuc exemplo nubis aquosae 2. If the civill Magistrate hath power to command the Church to revise Sect. 7 her judgment when she judgeth any thing amisse surely he hath power to examine and judge of her proceedings whether they be regular equall and just or no except you will say that he comes to the knowledge of your it regular and undue proceedings in your Presbyteries by immediate revelation Suppose either the one or the other what reason have you to deny him part and fellowship with you in that Directive power in matters of Religion which you ingrosse and appropriate to your selves as we have formerly seen 3. If so then your Presbyteriall Assembly or judging Church may determine and judge amisse And if so 1. how dare yee compell or make the people under your government to sweare obedience or subjection unto your orders which yet by your own confession pag. 42 ordinarily you doe 2. Why are you not satisfied with that subjection to your Presbyteriall Decisions which pleadeth no exemption but only in the case of non-satisfaction about the lawfulnesse or truth of them You give men a good foundation a liberty to beleeve that you may erre but you will not suffer them to build upon it to refuse you when they think in their souls and consciences that that you doe erre They that will separate between such premisses and such conclusions will hardly make good Christians themselves or suffer others so to be And if you be but ingenuously willing to goe along with this your own principle That you may erre as farre as it would gladly lead you me thinks I durst undertake that the Apologists and you shall comprimize before to morrow next 4. And lastly if parties may have cause to be offended and not Sect. 8 onely pretend to be offended as A. S. would minde it with the Church as out of all question they may if the Church may judge amisse then have they power to judge of their actions as well as they of theirs No man is justifiable in his complaint or offence taking but he that hath a power to examine and judge of that which gives the cause or ministers the occasion of the offence And if a single partie which is no Presbyter or Prophet in your sense hath a lawfull power to examine and judge of the acts and orders of a Presbyteriall or Propheticall Assembly and may possibly by means of such an examination take them tardie do not so far magnifie the spirits of your Prophets against the spirits of our Saints as to think these good for nothing but to swear homage and vassalage unto them But A. S. surely pleaseth himselfe highly with a parcell of distinctions Sect. 9 which he presents us within the prementioned Description and hopes perhaps to make an atonement with them for his confusionâ— otherwise First He distinguisheth of that executive coercive power wherewith he invests the civill Magistrate as not being in or intrinsecall unto the Church but externall and about the Church Secondly he distinguisheth the subject capable of this power the civill Magistrate into truly Christian and not truly Christian Thirdly upon this distinction he builds a third distinction concerning the manner of the competencie of this power to the one kind of subject and the other telling us that this power or authority belongs actually and in effect in actu exercito jure in re to true Christian Magistrates but to others potentially in actu signato and jure in rem onely till they become true Christians The man you see hath much adoe to find or come at that power Sect. 10 wherewith he would so fain gratifie the civill Magistrate in matters of Religion He adjures three unclean spirits of distinctions to tell him what and where it is and yet they doe but peep and matter in their answer and make no man the wiser by it Here he seeks for the coercive power of the civill Magistrate in matters of Religion in the same black sea of darknesse and confusion wherein he seekes and would make the world beleeve he finds the Presbyterian government afterwards But if the one and the other be cloz'd up in such an ammunition of rockes of distinctions as A. S. represents them in his story certainly they are inaccessible to the judgements and consciences of persons of mean capacity and much more inaccessible to the judgments and consciences of more understanding and considering men The very darknesse it selfe of the distinctions which he is necessitated to use to make his way to come at the one and at the other is a light sufficient to discover that neither the one nor the other is any where to be found within the territories either of reason or of truth But let us see the distinctions play a little before us for their Masters credit For the first The Magistrates power saith he viz. in matters of Religion for so he must necessarily be understood by the Antithesis in the former clause or member of this Distinction where he denies a Directive power unto him in matters of Religion is not in or intrinsecall to the Church but extrinsecall and about the Church Is it in i. intrinsecall to matters of Religion and but extrinsecall in respect of the Church So then it seems A. S. his Presbyteriall Church is somewhat more inward intimate and intrinsecall then the religion of this Church otherwise how should the power of the Magistrate penetrate into the Religion thereof and yet not reach into but onely unto the Church it selfe By this distinction he hath utterly disgrac'd his Presbyteriall Government by making the Churches under it more internall and inward then the religion that is to be found in them If the Apologists had but whispered one tittle of such a saying though at never such a distance it had been enough to have produced seven reasons more at least against their toleration then are yet levied or brought forth into the world But 2ly though you seem to deale very bountifully with the Magistrate Sect. 11 in giving him a power extrinsecall and about the Church and to content your selfe and your compresbyters with an intrinsecall power onely yet by somewhat that hath been lately printed it appeares that you mean to eate at the same Table with him which you pretend to spread for him alone For hath not the Presse very lately been delivered of this peece of Presbytery that the Classicall Presbytery hath Reformation cleared p. 23. the authoritative power of Citation just as the Bishops had And is not such a power externall and which is not in but about the Churches For if a Classis shall cite or excommunicate a member of a Church against the judgement and consent of the Elders of that Church let all the world
judge whether that be not an act of externall power without the Church If it be replied No because that Church did implicitly consent in yeelding their Elders for members of that Presbytery We reply That if either your publick Law constrains that Church upon penalty Invitum dicitur quod quis vel coactus vel per ignorantiam admittit Arist Eth. l. 3. c. 1. Kecker Praecog Syst Eth. against their light to suffer their Elders to sit in the Classicall Presbytery then that Church doth not freely consent or if that Church without constraint doth consent for want of light as it must be supposed if a Classis upon debate be found to be besides the word this ignorant act of that Church is an unwilling or involuntary act and so no free consent And so the Classis according to A. S. his distinction is like a Magistrate which is a Bishop without and about that Church But good A. S. we know it is an easie matter to distinguish the Magistrate Sect. 12 into such an executive coercitive externall power as you speake of but we would fain see you demonstrate him into it and then A. S. and M. S. should be no more two but one S. We know not how to transform distinctions into demonstrations His second Distinction is of the Subject of this power the Magistrate whom he makes two-fold truly Christian and not truly Christian But 1. I would faine know by what Touchstone A. S. will try his gold in this case I mean judge of the truth of Christianitie in a Magistrate It appeares from page 50. of his discourse that he hath no mind to grant his truth of Christianity unto a Magistrate that is either Lutheran Anabaptist Socinian or Papist Any of these misprisions in Christianity are as sufficient in A. S. his judgement as in ours to keep the sword of that power we speake of out of the Magistrates hand And as for a Magistrate whose judgement shall be infected perfected reason and truth would say with Apologisme or the great hatred of his soule independencie I make no question but he in the Comique terme should bee exclusissimus from this capacitie or right above all the rest But let us goe on with the man in the termes of his own addresse to Sect. 13 the Apologists in the same place If he saith that by a Magistrate truly Christian he understand an orthodox Magistrate what if he had one or two errors would he yet permit him to be orthodox and truly Christian or not Till A. S. here specifies Sermones generales non movent his own rule for my selfe untill I shall be otherwise informed by himselfe I shall make use of my reason to beleeve that by a Magistrate truly Christian A. S. onely meanâ— a Magistrate who in his judgement is Presbyteriall and that this qualification of Presbyterialisme and truth of Christianitie in a Magistrate are against all contradictions and counter-poysings whatsoever termini aequipollentes in his Logique And if this be his meaning the king to be sure hath none of his power as yet in actu exercito and jure in re nor hath the Parliament at least for ought A. S. or the kingdom knoweth any whit more of it then the King And whatsoever it hath done hitherto by any executive coercive externall power about the Church or Church-affairs in which kinde it hath done very much depends as touching the validity and justifiableness of it upon this supposition that it Presbyterializeth Whence it followeth that he that cannot or doth not believe that the Parliament is of a Classique inclination cannot with the leave of A. S. his distinction judge them to have done lawfully or warrantably any thing that they have done hitherto about or for the Church The truth is that till A. S. will please to define what manner of Magistrate hee must be that shall pass the test of his distinction for truly Christian wee are constrained to suspend our bounty in conferring that executive coercive externall power about the Church upon any man Nor do I make much question but that wee shall have twenty Distinctions more before we shall obtain that Definition But of all the three distinctions here upon the stage the best dancer Sect. 14 is yet behind This Power or Authority saith he belongs actually and in effect in actu exercito jure in re it 's very long me thinks ere wee hear to whom it belongs to true Christian Magistrates but to others potentially in actu signato jure in rem only untill they become truly Christian 1. Though I have many times heard of the distinction in actu exercito in actu signato yet I never heard of any thing belonging to a person in actu exercito but that belonged to him and that per prius in actu signato Hee to whom the principle or power of acting doth not belong cannot stand ingaged for the exercise or acting of such a power 2. My soul longs for the Summer fruit of a good reason from A. S. Sect. 15 why any power about the Church and for the Church should not belong actually and in effect in actu exercito jure in re and with as many other proper unproper necessary unnecessary sober ridiculous expressions as he pleaseth as well to a Magistrate not yet truly Christian as to him that is such Hath not an Heathen or Heterodox Magistrate a lawfulness of power to do presently this day this hour to morrow and so forth toties quoties as much good to and for the Church or Churches of Christ within his jurisdiction or dominion as he could have if he were truly Christian Do acts of justice bounty grace towards the Churches of Christ any whit more defile a Magistrate how far from truly Christian soever then acts of the same nature performed unto his other subjects The Kings and those that were in authority in Pauls dayes were generally all the kings without exception far from being truly Christian and yet was it not lawfull for them to interpose with their Authority or Power that the Churches of Christ in their dominions might lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty If not then was that exhortation of his 1 Tim. 2. 2. to be laid up in Lavender for some hundreds of yeers after it was given or else the benefit and blessing the obtaining whereof by prayer is made the ground of the exhortation must have been made over in the intentions of those that had so prayed unto their posterities after many generations A. S. may choose which of the two hee will believe for my part I shall not be his corrivall in either Yee have heard A. S. his Distinctions for a coercive power about the Church in a Civill Magistrate Demonstrationes autem ubi But where are his proofs Quas non invenio usquam esse puto nusquam What I finde not any where I believe to be no where I have searched and that