Geneua at the least that of all likelyhood as diuers housholdes by his owne rule do concurre together to make one conuenient parish So diuerse parishes in one citie suburbes and territorie thereof may be vnited and rightlye beare the name of the church Except wee shall thinke that Christ referring as they suppose his Apostles to the imitation of the Iewes church gouernment they were so negligent workemen as there being at that time 400. Synagogues in that one citie they had erected in all their times but one congregation christian church or parish answerable to one Synagoge it being lawfull for them by the square of that platforme to haue erected if they had could 400. But let this passe as a thing impertinent and to returne to the maimed pining Parishes at Geneua You will say did not Cartwright know the ecclesiasticall gouernment of that citie when he writ his bookes or shall we once conceaue that he thought to condemne that regiment which in other places hee doth so greatly extoll certainly for mine owne part although I do not greatly respect what he will saie that hee either knoweth or thinketh yet I suppose he will neuer for shame denie it but that he misliketh that forme of church regiment For first besides the premises being vrged with Caluins authoritie who thought the church of Geneua with all her sayde Parishes to make but one body of a church his answere to that point in effect is this Admit Caluin so thought I am of opinion that if Caluin had not soe thought hee would neuer haue erected vp such an Eldership And if Beza did not thinke so still I iudge hee would alter it Secondly also vppon another occasion he resembleth the order of certaine reformed churches which in this sence must be necessarily either of Scotland Flaunders or Geneua vnto the custome in S. Ieromes time when Bishops besides their one onely church had certaine other congregations belonging to their ouersight c. and in mislike thereof sayth for parte of his answere to this pointe being pressed by his aduersary against him I appeale to the institution of God and vse of the purer times after the Apostles But amongst other qualifications which he maketh least we should thinke that where such reformations are made as haue diuers parishes belonging to one Eldership there the old Diocesse and Bishops are in effect not abrogated but a little altered he sayth that one in such Eldership is aboue the rest but for a time as Caluin was chosen thereunto euery two yeares and not during his ministerie Which authority ouer many parishes but for a time although he will not plainly condemne it in the reformed churches which hee fauoreth yet speaking against the order of the church of England both he his companions doe make it a steppe whereby Sathan did aduaunce the kingdome of Antichrist Lastly as hitherto you haue found M. Cartwright with his friendes opposite in this matter vnto Geneua and Scotland differing also much from the churches in the Low countries so he seemeth to mee to crosse himselfe For in his second booke hee sayth that particular churches are nowe in steed of Synagogues and that their Synagogues were the same that our particular churches are And in his third booke he writeth thus For my part I confesse that there commeth not to my minde whereby I could precislie conclude out of the olde testament that there was an eldershippe amongst the Iewes in euery of their Synagogues If that can not then be shewed out of Moses who was so faythfull in setting downe all that was committed to his charge and that Christ commaunded no new thing but such as Moses instituted how hath hee vrged so mightely that we must haue his Elderships in euery Parish We shall see peraduenture that in shorte time M. Cartwright will giue ouer this holde and betake himselfe to the citie consistories framing new Diocesses to bee subiect vnto them as in other countries you haue heard they are Well I would wishe that before their Elderships were graunted vnto them they should agree together where they ought to place them But nowe to the seuerall partes of euery Eldership CHAP. 8. Of Bishops generally of the pretended equalitie of Pastors or new parish Bishops and how the chiefe impugners of Bishops beginne to relent IN the olde testament the high Priest besides that he was a figure of Christ had also vnder Moses Iosua the Iudges and Kinges for the better ordering and gouernment of the church authoritie and iurisdiction ecclesiasticall within that countrie of Canaan vnder whom for the same purpose were other Priests at least 24. that were called Principes Sacerdotum Princes of the Priestes all of them inferior to the high Priest but superior to the rest In the new testament our Sauiour Christ whilst hee liued on the earth had his Apostles and in degree vnder them his 70. Disciples After his ascentiō the same inequality of the ministery of the word continued in the Church by all mens confession as long at the least as the Apostles liued In the Apostles times Saint Marke was Bishop of Alexandria Saint Iames was Bishop of Ierusalem Timothy was Bishop of Ephesus and Titus was Bishop of Crete if the ancient fathers and Ecclesiastical histories be of any credite The Apostles hauing receaued the promise of the holy Ghost after a short time dispersed themselues by aduise into diuerse regions And there by painefull preaching and labouring in the Lords haruest they planted no doubt very many Churches As the number of Christians grew and had their particular assemblies and meetings in many Cities and countries within euery one of their circuites they placed pastors in euery congregation they ordained certaine Apostolicall men to bee chiefe assisters vnto them whom they placed some one in this particular countrey another in that and some others in sondry Cities to haue the rule and ouersight vnder them of the Churches there and to redresse and supply such wantes as were needefull And they themselues after a while and as they grewe in age and escaped the crueltie of tyrantes remained for the most part in some head Citty within their compasse to ouersee them all both Churches Pastors and Bishops or Superintendents and to giue their directions as occasions required and as they thought it conuenient When any either of these Apostolicall assistantes or of the Apostles themselues dyed there were euer some worthy men chosen and appointed to succeede them in those Cities and Countries where they had remained For wee may not idlely dreame that when they dyed the authoritie which was giuen vnto them ceased no more then we may that the authoritie of Aaron of his naturall sons expired and ended with them Besides it is manifest by all Ecclesiasticall hystories that many Churches were planted after theyr deathes And furthermore it coulde not be but that some Churches especially vnder those Apostles that were soonest put to
Princes and other of the Nobilitie that follow the court to haue particular Consistories in their priuate houses consisting euerie one of a minister and some of the honestest of their Families Here are then Consistories to be erected in the church according to Cartwrightes thirde acceptation of the word church that is in priuat houses and likewise a Parish not of many but of one familie And peraduenture in time it may so come about as that this will bee currant doctrine in Englande not onely for Noblemen to haue Elderships in their priuate houses but for Gentlemen likewise For now it is already groen thus farre that many of both sortes yea some but meane gentlemē will haue their seueral ministers for comming to their parish churches though they be hard by their dores they account it a dishonorable matter their parlor-seruice and priuate speaking as they terme it pleaseth them best I might here adde howe D. Sohnius is bolde to dissent from Cartwright where speakinge of the diuerse significations of the worde church hee sayth Particularis c. The particuler church is deuided and hath her name agreeable to the diuersitye of places that is Nations Prouinces Townes Parishes Houses or Families For so there is a church of one Prouince of one Citie of one towne of one house And so he quoteth many places of scripture for this his assertion But to proceede Danaeus a man as well learned for ought is yet seene as Cartwright is doth not thinke that by the institution of Christ there must needes bee an Eldership not onely in euery Citie but in euery vplandish and countrie towne also For he sayth if I vnderstand him that in the Apostles times the ruling Elders of whom the Eldership is chiefely named was vsed to be established in vnaquaque tantū ciuitate in qua erat ampla et populosa ecclesia et magnus fideliū numerus In euery city onely where the church was populous In which citye hee further addeth quaeque ciuitatis et ecclesiae pars seu paroecia suū habebat presbyterum Euery parish had a priest or minister as the parishes in the countrie had also oppidatim that is towne by towne a priest much like to those whom we call in our times Curatores Curates Furthermore also the reforming ministers of Scotlande do account their platforme now in practice there to be as agreeable to the worde of God as M. Cartwrightes and yet as the Chronicles do report they haue but 52. Elderships in Scotland those placed in their chiefest cities and great townes Vnto euerie of which Elderships as I am informed 24. particular churches or parishes for the most part do appertaine none of them hauing any such particular Eldership of their owne but are ruled controled and censured by those in the sayde cities or townes whereunto they are adioyned and subiect In the Low countries it is true that euerie parish hath her Eldership But what a kinde of Eldership Heare a verie learned and a graue man of that countrie Ruri in pagis c. In the countrie villages in some places they haue but a Pastor one Elder and a Deacon In Gaunt euerye parish likewise had theyr Eldership consisting of moe or fewer as the quantitie of them were besides those there was a consistorye for the whole citie All which particular Elderships in the countrye cities when any matters of greater momēt fell out especially for excōmunicatiō Ea potestas nulli particulari ecclesiae concessa est that power or authoritie is graunted to no particular church sine concilio et assensu generalis consistorij in magna vrbe et in pagis et oppidulis colloquij siue classis without the councel and consent of the generall consistorye in cities great townes of the conference or classis in the country townes villages So as here we find a number of Christs kingdoms set vp but they want their scepter power without the which our men would not giue a pinne for all the rest For so they are vnperfect maymed bodies of Christ. But to come to that which is the patterne of all right church regiment euen to the Eldership of Geneua There are in that citie as I haue heard foure or fiue great parishes and in the territorie belonging vnto it almost 20. and yet for the censuring and guiding of them all they haue but one Eldership according as it seemeth to the Iewish order there being in Ierusalem but one Sanedrim yet many Synagogues Of the which Geneuian reformation it may iustly be affirmed if Cartwright his fellowes with vs say truly first that the church of Geneua hath neglected the commandement of God the institution of Christ the commaundement and practise of the Apostles in that there is not placed an Eldershippe there in euery parish secondly that the sayd church being neither the catholicke church nor one particular parish nor the faithfull company of one familie cannot rightly haue so much as the name of the church nor be truely termed the well squared bodye of Christ with all the true dimensions and limites of it And certaynely there is here no starting hole as farre as I can discerne for the excuse of that Reformation and platforme except it maye bee iustified that all these foure or fiue and twentie parishes or there aboutes are so trussed together that they doe and maie all at once meet in one Congregation are taught with one mouth which to affirme besides that their practise is otherwise will bee thought I trust great boldnes vnlesse they can find a pastor with Stentors voyce who by report could make as great a noise as fifty men I cannot chuse but put you heere in minde of a poynte in Maister Cartwright that seemeth verie strange vnto mee Hee sayth that there were moe that did externally professe Christ in the Apostles times then there are nowe insomuch as wee are not nowe the tithe of them that is the tenth parte Nowe set these thinges together The Church in the Scriptures where it signifieth not the Catholique Church nor one priuate familye doth signifye one particular congregation and no moe are rightlye to bee of one congregation then maye at once bee taught by one mouth And thereuppon will it not followe that if the Apostles were as wise as Mayster Cartwright to bounde their Congregations whereas there is mention in the Scriptures of the Church of Rome of the Church of Corinth of the Church of Antioche of the Church of Ephesus of the Church of Ierusalem we must thinke there were no moe christians there in any one of those Cities then might at one time heare one preacher And by that account there are moe christians within the citie of London the suburbs thé were in al those cities twise as many more Which if M. Cartwright will deny to be true he must needs cōses for the credit of Scotland or of
auncient estate of the Church of England vnto that newly deuised vnbrideled new-platforme of that demy-Parish of Geneua as I may well call it by way of comparison Now you must vnderstand that as our old English Geneuians did weare out or grew out of date So there did start vp a new broode in their places Cartwright and Trauers finding as it seemeth that itching and stirring humor in themselues which delighteth altogether in nouelties they would needes to Geneua Where in short time they were notably confirmed in that doctrine of contradiction returned home like the rest of our Geneuian Proselites ten times more wayward then they were before Which disposition of theirs being knowen to the Crue who then but these two after their seuerall returnes thence to bee the Champions successiuely for the Allobrogicall Discipline Since which times you shall finde little omitted of those Disciplinarian practises whereby this Lady their Mistris most indirectly and by all vnlawfull meanes hath beene elsewhere aduanced Their writings I speake nowe generally of all our English Factioners that haue written for this forgerie are full of bouldnes of Sophistications of falsifications of peruerse wrestings of seditious assertions and of manye such corruptions They haue sought by all indirect and vnlawfull meanes to allure the people vnto them and haue entred into a kind of an associatiō amongst thēselues Neither the Bishop of Geneua nor the Bishops in Scotland for ought I finde were euer more Turkifhly handled by Heathenish Libels and most vnchristian calumniations then our Bishops haue bene by diuers of these our Geneuating Passauantians By the like course also and in the same manner haue they dealt as far as possibly they durst with her most excellent Maiestie with the high Court of Parliament with the Lordes of her Highnes most honorable Priuy Councell and with the Iudges Lawes of the land The reformation of religion which almighty God hath wrought amongst vs by her Maiesties meanes some of them haue tearmed a deformation and all of them do disgrace and depraue it to their vttermost abilitie most lewdly and falsly Since the time they haue seen litle hope that her Maiestie the other states of this land would euer giue place to their vnstaied vanities and Phaetonicall presumptions they haue applied themselues to the practise of the inseparable Disciplinarian adiunct mentioned vz that when such states do refuse and will in no wise be perswaded to embrace and establish within theyr dominions the pretended Church-Discipline so liked of at Geneua the Ministers may draw the people vnto them by all maner of allurementes and so betwixt them set it vp themselues And in this course they haue already farre proceeded altogether as you may perceiue by the saide act of Parliament in Scotland Anno. 1584. after the same maner that the Ministers of Scotland did proceede They haue had theyr subscriptions their Synodes of diuerse sortes Classicall Prouinciall and Generall In those Synodes they haue practised Censures made lawes of their owne and disallowed some of those which the state of this realme hath made Vnto these and such like their priuate Conuenticles they haue appropriated the name of the Church and hauing separated themselues in a sorte from all those Christians that fauour not their mistresse they are become ioined into a new brotherhood of the Allobrogicall Discipline As there grew some occasion of feare amongst thē that these their Consistorial proceedings were likely to breake forth before they were ready and able by the strength of their assistance to stand to their tackling consultation was had and the matter ouerruled that none of that brotherhood if hee were apprehended should in any wise appeach another but vtterly refuse to detect such dealinges of the godly brethren as they themselues so greatly liked and were of opinion to be most honest and iust He that woulde take the paines to peruse the examinations of Cartwright and of some others in the Starre-chamber as any may easily do now that they are published should finde all these particulars and many more then heere I wil speake of to be most true And thus you see the Geneuian Discipline deuised by one man procured at the first by his comming great intreaty and friendship being then a simple and a poore Gentlewoman God knoweth fit peraduenture in the alteration of a Monarchy into a popular state to receaue some intertainment but as I say now you may plainly see what a Ladie she is growen to be through the instigations and practises of maister Caluin and Beza and howe and by what meanes she hath enlarged her Dominions and set her foot into this Iland of Britaine I could further adde hereunto how they haue not bin content to keepe themselues within the limites of Geneua Fraunce England and Scotland dealing as you haue heard but haue sought to take the verie same course in some other Countries likewise Maister Beza doubted not as hee saith omnes principes hortari to exhort all Princes to admit of the Sauoyan platforme And this you shall finde a thing ordinarie both in maister Caluins and maister Bezaes writings that as soone as they haue heard from time to time of any countrey that hath begunne to abolish Popery by and by they haue come vpon them with most earnest solicitations and gloses for the contracting of this their gallant Consistorian minion with them What letters haue been written into Germany Transiluania and Polonia wherein that point alwaies playeth a chiefe part One letter written by Beza into Polonia I cannot chuse but make mention of After diuerse attempts and sutes made in the behalfe of their Discipline to haue had her placed in Polonia one Sarnicius writ to Beza as it seemeth in this sorte timetur altera tyrannis now the Pope is bannished it is feared heere that this your platforme of Discipline woulde proue to be as tirannous a kinde of gouernement as euer the Popes was Whereunto he aunswereth Recte quidem It is well said sit ergo disciplinae regula verbum Dei Let the word of God be the rule of Discipline In effect as though he should haue said Let our platforme at Geneua be admitted of amongst you and then your Elders they will easily see what they may do and how farre they may proceed in causes by the word of God Or if they cannot send to Geneua as other Churches haue done and whilest I liue you shal haue such authenticall resolutions as you may be sure shall preuent all that danger And a litle before in the said letter Scis c. you know there is one and the selfe same authour of doctrine and Discipline meaning that of Geneua Quorsum igitur vnam verbi partem alter a repudiata reciperemus to what purpose therfore should we receaue one part of the word without the other To what purpose shall wee receiue the doctrine of our saluation by Iesus Christ except we receaue also the maner of the Discipline
But I will come to their first skippe which is in effect from the yeare aboue mentioned 1541. vnto the Apostles time backward For as I remember I haue read it in one of their bookes that in all the auncient fathers you shall finde a little but as it were of the ruines of it But the ruines of it in all the auncient fathers What lucke had they that the building of so gorgeous a peece of worke stoode not in their daies as now it standeth in Geneua that they might haue seene the bewtie and the glory of it If it were so ruinate before the times wherein the ancient fathers liued then surely it will followe in spite of whosoeuer saith nay that it is of greater antiquitie then all the fathers were of But I maruaile howe it grewe into such ruine before their times For to my vnderstanding the Apostles times were next before the time of the auncient fathers The learned discourser will help vs for this plunge out of the bryers The ecclesiasticall offices saith hee namely of Pastors Doctors Gouernours and Deacons were exercised in the primatiue and pure Church vntill the mysterie of iniquities working a way for Antichristes pride and presumption changed Gods ordinance c. And when was that The mistery of iniquitie began to worke in the Apostles dayes Was it then Peraduenture hee meaneth that immediatly after the Apostles times there was some age wherin there liued no ancient fathers and that then this mischiefe was wrought I would it had pleased him to haue deuised such a prouiso in the behalfe of those most notable men manie of them very godly and holy Martirs But the discourser was as it seemeth a plain man he will lay the fault where it was as indeed it is reason that euery man should beare his owne burden Heare him therefore againe Our fathers of olde time were not content with the simple order instituted by Christ and established by his Apostles but for better gouerning of the Church thought good some offices to adde thereunto some to take away some to alter and change and in effect to peruert and ouerthrow all christian and Ecclesiasticall pollicy which was builded vppon the foundation of the Prophetes and Apostles Iesus Christ being the chiefe corner stone A strange conceite that all the auncient fathers should thus conspire to thrust Christ out of his kingdome and to ouerthrowe all Christian pollicy What not a man amongest them as learned and as godly affected as either Caluin Beza or this discourser Not one in those ages that would stand to Christes Discipline A pittifull case But I promise you for my parte I rather doubt of the discoursers credite in this point then that I will thinke there should be such dishonesty in the auncient Fathers Nay I durst certainly sweare it that if there had beene any such gouernment of Christ in their daies they would haue beene as carefull for the continuance of it as any of the purest platformers in Christendome Trauers in his Booke of Ecclesiasticall Discipline maketh eight degres of the declination of this new pretended regiment to haue growne before the Councell of Nice procured as he saith cunningly by Sathan but yet so that as he addeth there are euidences to be shewed of sondry partes of it in the writinges of the auncient Fathers c and that also in this age it is exercised in Fraunce the low Countries and in Scotland All out of square from the Apostles times till Geneua was illuminated Some blinde euidences there may be found he saith for sundry parts of that Discipline whereby a man may conceaue that there was once such a thing in being Wel yet if that were true the auncient Fathers deserue some little commendation in that they were content to leaue some scroules or shiuers of it vnto their posterity To the same purpose also in another place the same party confesseth that the ordinary offices as he tearmeth them in the Apostles times haue beene nowe of many yeares out of vse either in part or altogether afore the last restoring of the Gospell in this age A great leap as I think from the Apostles time to this ourage If I had framed the scope of my second Chapter after this mans pleasure I might as you see haue safely set it downe with Trauerse consent that from the Apostles times till maister Caluin was fully placed in Geneua the now pretended order forme of Ecclesiasticall Discipline was not to haue beene found in all the world Maister Cartwright though he say in his first Booke that the Eldership did most florish in Constantines time and defendeth the same in the secōd part of his 2. reply sauing that he leaueth out the word most with such shifting and falshood as I durst make any learned mā iudge of his dealing therein yet I say in his Table to the first part of his second reply and also in the second part therof he acknowledgeth in effect to my vnderstanding that of the Elderships declining there are to be found in the Fathers but certaine traces and marks whereby we might come to the knowledge of it and vnderstand that certaine Churches as at Alexandria went out of the way As if he should haue sayd looke how a man seeketh for a Hare in the snow and seldome findeth her till he come to her forme so you must seeke for the Eldership as now it is vrged in the auncient Fathers still pricking after it till hauing runne past all them you come to the forme of it in the Apostles times Or as if he had said the best vse that a man can haue eyther of the auncient fathers or of the Ecclesiasticall writers is this concerning the Geneuian Discipline that a man by them may learne when men goe out of their right way but how to get in againe when we are once out if you wil haue any direction for that point you must either goe to Geneua or to him or to some of his fellows There goeth the Hare away for the Fathers cannot helpe you But belieue me such is my dulnes as I doe not wel discerne how these words of Cartwrights will stand well together with those of the Elderships flourishing in Constantines time seeing now in the auncient Fathers we haue so little of it vz. onely as it were some few markes traces or footesteps of a thing which had beene and was gone before their times For as concerning the state of the Church in Constantines time there are whole Cart-loads of most pregnant euidences in the auncient Fathers of it yet but traces as he saith or empty steps in them for his Eldership In effect as if he had saide the Geneua Discipline flourished most when it was not One that hath sent vs a printed Book out of Scotland taking vppon him to know belike the mindes of all the Scottishe Ministers that seeke for the pretended Discipline as concerning the time how
called it ecclesia that is the Church Very well any thing will content me Howbeit for ought I know there was no cause why it might not haue pleased our sauiour Christ if he had conceiued so notable a liking of that Iewish platforme but that hee might also haue retayned the olde name and so haue made no alteration at all The authour of the booke of Discipline hauing as it should seeme some such like consideration in his head or what other I know not and thinking scorne as I gesse to runne to the Iewes Talmud for a name for this regiment is not afraid to dissent from Caluin Beza his olde tutor Cartwright and a number of other his good maisters here in saying obseruandum est vnà cum re ipsa nomen etiam a Iudaeis ad nos translatum esse It is heere to be obserued that together with the thing it selfe the very name also is translated vnto vs from the Iewes And what name is that Forsooth saith he Nomen 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is congregation or church saepius apud Mosen certis delectis viris tribuitur qui a toâ—a congregatione adres obeundas designarentur is often giuen by Moses vnto a certaine number of chosen men that were to be appointed by the whole congregation to deale in sundry affaires So as by this fellowes saying Christ made no alteration at all when he said Dic ecclesiae tell the church but kept euen the olde name of it vz which it had before giuen vnto it by Moses How blinde then was Beza Cartwright and the rest that they could not finde this proper name of their soueraigntie in all the olde testament but were faine to flie to the Talmud But will Beza thinke you take this at his handes No I warrant you For saith he vocabulo ecclesiae significari ciuium conuentum nemo est qui ignoret c. Haebrei 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vocant Sed postea communis loquendi consuetudo fecit vt pro eoruÌ„ caetu accipiatur qui ChristuÌ„ profitentur There is no man ignorant that the word ecclesia doth signifie an assembly of Citizens The Hebrews do call it an assembly or company met together But afterward by custome it came to passe that it was taken for the assembly of them that do professe Christ. Which custome I hope it will be confessed did begin about Christes time and not in Moses time And then the disciplinarian Trauerser is very well serued for his sawcinesse in taking vpon him to proceed further then his sayd Maisters had giuen him in commission But howsoeuer these fellows will agree amongst themselues me thinketh a man might be bold by their place of Mathew to call their parochiall regiment by the name of the church For they all wil coÌ„fesse that Christ called it so And then it will follow by their grounds that euery parish or church must haue a newe church erected in it which new church must haue authoritie to command censure the old and so one Church must be ouer another Yea but saith Beza in effect we are rather to follow the apostles in this point then Christ. That which he called Church meaning the Synedrium that is Councell the apostles called presbyteriuÌ„ Eldership Quod Christus ecclesiam iam mutato Synagogae vel Synedrij nomine appellarat Paulus presbyterium nominauni That which Christ called the Church changing the name of Synagoge or Councell Paul called Eldership Againe quod Iudaei Synedrium Christiani presbyterium teste Apostolo vocarant That which the Iewes called Councel the Christians as the Apostle witnesseth called Eldership And why Beza would blush if he could not giue a reason for any thing Idcirco fortassis potius quam Synedrium ne qua pateret calumniandi occasio quasi Christiani statum publicum turbare de magistratuum authoritate ac iurisdictione quicquam ad se protrahere vellent The Apostles peraduenture called this regiment rather Eldership then Councell least there might be giuen thereby some occasion of slaundering as though the christians had purposed to haue troubled the publicke state and to haue taken to themselues some part of the Magistrates authoritie and iurisdiction Well and are we yet come to an issue how we may call this forme of gouernement Shall we tearme it the Eldership No surely if wee will follow some other reformed Churches which are so ofte commended vnto vs. Presbyterium vocare Consistorium apud nos mos est It is the maner and fashion with vs at Geneua saith Beza to call the Eldership a consistorie With whom agreeth I.B. the superintendent as it is thought of the Italian Church in London saying Although we haue in our churches the same order which the Apostles ordained yet we haue changed the name of Eldership do call it now by another name vz consistory And good reason It is so called at Geneua The Apostles call it Eldership but yet they dispensing with that point doe call it as they list Men no doubt of a soueraigne prerogatiue But to proceede It shoulde seeme that as these men haue chaunged the name of Eldership into Consistorie so haue others in some places done it into Synod Against both which sort Bannosius in his long and tedious disciplinarian discourse is verie bold to write his minde that it ought rather to be called Eldership then eyther Synode or consistory And that for two reasons vz first because some men do not distinguish sufficiently the assemblies of the christians from the Synodes of the Iewes and secondly because the Hierarchy of Rome doth call their presbyterium Eldership consistorium a consistory From all these as I suppose many of the French Churches or at the least that of Heidelberge doth dissent For thus Iunius lately a chief Ruler there writeth Concilium ecclesiae Senatumue appellamus quod Paulus presbyterium That which Paul called the Eldership wee call the councell of the churche or the Senate and so the Elders there are Senators Which names both of Senate and Senators sayth Beza Vt ciuilibus dignitatibus couuenientius calumniae obnoxium videtur studio quodam vetus purior ecclesia in occidente repudiasse as being proper to ciuile dignities and subiect to slaunder the olde purer churche in the West doth seeme of purpose to haue reiected And Bannosius affirmeth that the reason that moued those where hee was to call the Eldershippe a consistorie was quod nomen minus odiosum quam Senatus esset because it was a name lesse odious then the name of Senate You haue heard also before out of Beza that the Apostles themselues refused the name of Synedrium as being all one with Councell or Senate for the same respects But all this notwithstanding now that belike they thinke themselues in some places to haue laid such sufficient foundations for the coÌ„tinuance of their regiment as that it shall not be remoued what soeuer the Magistrates shall
you of vs or least those things which we haue written of Ecclesiasticall policie properly against that Antichristian tyrannie as necessitie required are taken by some in that sense as if euer we had meant to compel to our order those churches that thinke otherwise then we doo of it and the gouernors of them agreeing els with vs in the truth of doctrine agreeable to the word of God and that except they followed our order we accounted otherwise of them then their godlines and dignitie and mutuall brotherhood doth require c. Farre be this arrogancie from vs. Quis vllum nobis in vllam Ecclesiam imperium tribuit Who doth giue vs authority ouer anie church Far be it from vs that we should thinke so the substantiall matters be kept there ought nothing to be graunted to antiquitie nothing to custome nothing to the circumstances of places times and persons c. Againe in his booke against D. Sarauia hauing spoken of the tyrannie of Popish Bishops hee maketh this exception Neque tamen But wee doo not therefore accuse all Archbishops and Bishops now so called of tyranie For what arrogancie were that Nay so as they doo imitate the examples of the olde holy Bishops and indeuor as much as they can to reforme the house of God so miserably deformed according to the rule of Gods word why may we not acknowledge al of them now so called Archbishops and Bishops obey them and honor them with all reuerence So far we are from that which some obiect vnto vs most falsly and most impudently as though we tooke vppon vs to prescribe to anie Church in anie place our examples to be followed like vnto those vnwise men who account wel of nothing but of that which they doo themselues And to the same effect a little before If now the reformed Churches of England being vnderpropped with the authoritie of Bishoppes and Archbishops do continue as this hath happened to that Church in our memorie that she hath had men of that calling not onely most notable martyrs of God but also excellent pastors and doctors Fruatur sane ista singulari dei benificentia quae vtinam illi sit perpetua Let her truly inioy this singular blessing of God which I wish may be perpetuall vnto her Furthermore it should seeme that Zanchius as moderate and learned a man as euer fauoured the pretended Elderships was appointed some 12 or 16. yeres since to draw a confâ—ssion of religion for the Churches of France others as Melanchthon had done the Augustan confession for Germanie Accordingly hee drew it and in the same speaking of Bishops he vseth these wordes Non improbamius patres c. Wee doo not disalow the fathers in that after a diuers waie of dispensing the word and gouerning the Church they multiplied diuerse orders of Ministers seeing it was lawfull for them so to do as it is vnto vs and seeing it appeareth that they did it for honest causes appertaining at that time to the order decencie and edification of the Church And in the next article Hac ratione c. By this reason vz. that the nurseries of dissentions and of schismes may be taken away wee thinke that these thinges which were ordained before the Councell of Nice concerning Archbishops nay as touching the foure Patriarches may be excused and defended When this booke was perused and this clause found in it then forsoth a deuise was had for the staying of it vnder pretence that now it was thought more meete that there should be a harmonie made of all the confessions of diuers churches But Zanchius himselfe maketh this the chiefe cause if I vnderstand him why his booke dyd mislike some of them for that hee had written as before is mentioned of Bishops For so hee sayth Magnus quidam vir c. A certaine great man meaning Beza as it is supposed did write vnto mee of this matter as followeth Your confession was read by mee and N. others with great delight It is written most learnedly and in a most exquisite methode and if you except that which you adde towards the end touching Archbishops and the Hierarchie mihi summopere placuit it pleased mee exceedingly Vpon this occasion as it seemeth Zanchius printed his said confession with certaine annotations In the which annotations he sheweth three reasons for his allowance of Archbishops Bishops The first is grounded vpon the practise of the primitiue church presently after the Apostles times the second is for that hee thought it his dutie in the draught of his said booke to haue regard to those reformed churches which retaine both Bishops Archbishops and the third because all the reformed Churches generally although they haue chaunged the names yet in effect they doe keepe the authoritie as where they haue superintendents and generall superintendents Nay saith he where these new base Latine names are not admitted Ibi tamen solent esse aliquot primarij penes quos fere tota est authoritas yet there are in those places vsually certaine chiefemen that doe in a manner beare all the sway But I pray you be pleased that I may deliuer vnto you the maner of his setting down of his first reason and that in his owne words for they carry with them a notable condemnation of other mens great pride rashnes Cum haenc conscriberem fidei confessionem c. When I writ this confession of faith I writ all the thinges in it of a good conscience and as I beleeued so I freely spake the scriptures teaching men so to doe And my faith first of all and simply doth rely vpon the word of God then somewhat also vpon the common consent of the whole ancient Catholicke Church if the same bee not repugnant to the scriptures For I beleeue that what thinges were defined and receiued by the auncient Fathers assembled in the name of the Lord with a generall consent of them all and without any contradiction of the holy Scriptures the same surely although they be not of the same authoritie with holy Scriptures yet did they proceed from the holy Ghost Heereof it commeth to passe that those things which are of this nature neither would I neither dare I with a good conscience disallow them And what can be shewed more certainly out of histories out of the councels out of the writings of all the ancient fathers then that those orders of Ministers of the which we haue spoken haue bene ordained and receiued in the Church by the generall consent of all christian common-wealths And who then am I that should presume to reproue that which the whole Church hath approued This is true and religious humilitie Thus all graue and discreet godly men haue euerwritten Those that contemne all the learned Fathers that went before them doe open a windowe to their owne discredite by those that shall come after them That which this godly and great learned man ascribeth to the
bold to build vpon it for a truth that they are so constrained to yeeld vnto And then to ende this chapter Forasmuch as God himselfe appointed an inequalitie amongst the Priestes in the olde Testament Forasmuch as Christ though he calleth himselfe a Minister to minister vnto others was yet the Maister ouer his Apostles and Disciples Forasmuch as by Christs institution and in his owne time the Apostles were superior vnto the seuentie Disciples Forasmuch as the Apostles when the gospell began to spread it selfe appointed sundry Timothies Titus to gouerne the Churches in diuerse countries and territories Forasmuch as all the ecclesiasticall histories doe record the superioritie of Bishops and doe sette downe the Catalogues of many of them and which of the Apostles and Apostolicall Bishops and in what cities countries they succeeded Forasmuch as all the ancient generall Councels all the ancient and godly learned Fathers haue allowed of Bishops and of their superiority ouer the rest of the clergie Forasmuch as Bishops haue been accounted generally throughout the world to be the Apostles successors haue continued in the Church euer since the Apostles times Forasmuch as there was neuer any one of all the auncient Fathers nor any learned man for 1500. yeres but Aerius the heretike that euer held that there ought to bee no difference betwixt a Bishop a Priest I meane an ordinary Minister of the word and that his opinion was imputed vnto him 1200. yeeres since by Epiphanius and S. Augustine for an heresie Forasmuch as all the chiefe of the learned men that were the principall instruments vnder God in this latter age for the restitution of the Gospell allowed fullie of Bishoppes and of their authoritie and would not willingly haue submitted themselues to their obedience if they might haue bene receiued with anie tollerable conditions Forasmuch as all the reformed Churches in Germanie that doo imbrace the Augustane confession haue for the most part their superintendents and generall superintendents the same in effect with our Bishops Archbishops Forasmuch as the chiefest of the Germain writers now liuing do iustifie the calling offices of their superintendents and generall superintendents by the word of God Forasmuch as none of later times euer condemned the calling and authoritie of such Bishops and Archbishops as imbraced the Gospell for ought I finde but Beza and his schollers Forasmuch as Zanchius a fauorer of the Elderliship equalitie and now Beza himselfe ioyning with him do both of them confesse that the calling and authoritie of Bishops and Archbishops may be defended that they did proceed frō the holy Ghost and that there is nothing more manifest in all the Ecclesiasticall histories all the ancient councels and in the writings of all the ancient fathers then the allowance of them throughout all christendome Forasmuch as Beza for his own part hath written so honorably to the now L. Archbishop of Canterbury and so generally of all our Bishops now professing the Gospell condemning those of great arrogancie that shall presume to speak against them Forasmuch as you perceiue by Bezaes confession that there ought to be Bishops or Prelates such as were in the Church from S. Markes time for the auoiding and staying of contentions and schismes And forasmuch I saie as all these particular points are in sort as you haue heard the most of them confessed the rest by diuerse learned men proued to be true so still alwaies to be iustified with as ful consent and authoritie as may satisfie anie men either of learning or iudgement I see no reason why this Anabaptisticall dreame of equality amongst pastors should not be sent backe to the place frō whence it issued why the vrgers of it with such bitternesse ought to bee accounted otherwise off than hereby I trust you may see they deserue why Cartwright and his libelling generation against the present forme of our Church-gouernment should be anie longer indured or why any calling in the world next vnto the calling of euery Moses and soueraigne within their owne dominions should be more esteemed cherished reuerenced or honored by all true christians then the callings offices authoritie of Bishops and Archbishops hauing so generall continuall an allowance both of God himselfe and of all godly and rightly zealous men euer since there was any outward forme of church gouernment appointed CHAP. IX They disagree verie greatly concerning Doctors IT is now become to be a receiued opinion especially amongst those that desire to haue the kingdome of the pretended Elderships to raigne ouer them that S. Paul in the fourrh to the Ephesians doth make the Doctor a distinct office from the Pastor contrarie to the iudgement of S. Augustine Hierome Chrisostome Bullinger Musculus c. who make them but one office euen as feeding and teaching are all one Of this deuise for ought I do remember Caluin was the first author whose conceit Beza followeth And then it may not be meruailed though all the rest of that humor do faithfully imbrace it Of this office our reformers all of them ioyntly do carry this resolute opinion that it is a distinct ordinance of Christ to continue in the Church for euer that there ought to be a Doctor in euery Parish wheresoeuer there is a Pastor that the doctor is one of the members of the body of Christ that the doctor is one of those officers to whō the gouernment of the Church by Christs appointment is cōmitted that cōsequētly he hath by the same authoritie his place voice in the Consistorie as wel by as good right as either the pastor or Elder So as if there be anie reformed churches in the world where there are pastors that haue not these doctors which do not admit them to haue anie such authoritie nor giue thē either place or voice in their consistories then surely all those and many such like speeches following do euen as properly fall vpon them as they do vpon our church against the which they were first coined and vttered They refuse the ordinance of God They depriue the Church of the free gift of Christ they purpose not to haue the Church flourish in true knowledge They want some necessarie guifts which are tied necessarily to that office The knowledge of the son of God being necessarie to saluation The meanes thervnto are absolutely necessarie which is the hauing of pastors and doctors so long as men are subiect to ignorance The church is miserably destitute that wāteth the doctor They cānot take awaie those ministeries that God hath placed in his Church No christian Churches ought to swarue from the officers he nameth doctors that God hath appointed If they do they maime the Church they take away a member from the bodie of Christ they maime his bodie and deforme it Which after the manner of their amplifications is a matter of as great importance as the addition of anie new officers
certaine that the Barrowists woulde not and not they onely but euen some others of a little better credite then any of our English botchers who will needs haue the people to haue in effect as great an interest in the execution of the Church censures as all the rest both ministers and Eldermen Thus Vrsinus writeth hereof Fiat excommunicatio c Let excommunication be done by the consent and authoritie of the whole Eldership ecclesiae and of the Church not of the Church alone nor of the Ministers or presbytery alone For this power is not giuen by Christ to a few or to Ministers onely although the administration and execution of it is committed oftentimes to fewe or to one Minister sed toti ecclesiae but to the whole Church If he will not heare them and others tell the Church Potentes dominantur vos autem non sic Princes beare rule like Lordes but you may not do so The consent therfore of the Church is to be required 1. Because it is Christes commaundement 2. For the authoritie of the action 3. That no man bee iniuried 4. Least the Ministery should be changed into an Oligarchy or Popish tyranny Thus farre Vrsinus In whose iudgment you see the Eldership is to be charged alreadie though it be but newly set vp with the same faults that are imputed to our church-gouernment by the brotherhoode amongest vs that is with the alteration of Christes institution with Lordlinesse and with a Popishe tyranny c. So as by this deuise the people are to bee vnderstoode in the person of the Apostles as well as their Elders and the one hath no more authoritie to binde and loose then the other But nothing will content them long Giue them the head euery yeare will bring forth a new platforme It will not be inough for maister Beza to say Neque enim eis assentior qui non nisi totius ecclesiae c. I doe not agree with them who will not haue any man excommunicated but by the consent of the whole Church and of euery man particularly For Christ hath giuen this authoritie sani iudicij hominibus to men of sound iudgement that is to the colledge of Elders according to the manner of the Iewes Vrsinus and those that are of his opinion will aunswere that the rest of the Church are not of their wits that it is but his pride and his Elders presumption to take so much vppon them that they would be Lords ouer their brethren and for the place of Mathew that they know Christes meaning aswell as he and all that take his part Of the third ioynt office that Cartwright saith dothâ—belong vnto his pretended Elders to bee executed ioyntly with the ministers as it was touched in the beginning of the 16. chapter I shall haue a more fit place to speake in the 22.23.24 and 25. chapters following CHAP. XVIII Of the first institution of the old Deacons and of the disagreement about the new disciplinarie Deacons IN the apostles times when after Christes ascention they began to preach in Ierusalem such was the charitie of those that professed the Gospell that many of them solde all or the most part of that which they had and brought the price of it to the Apostles feete The especiall reason that moued them as I take it so to do was this The greatest part that at the first did followe the Apostles were of the poorer sorte Who vppon theyr newe embracing of that so comfortable a doctrine did giue ouer themselues to the carefull meditation and throughly learning of it leauing their trades though not altogether yet surely as I suppose for the most part vntill at the least that they grew to bee more fully instructed therein To the which purpose they kept asmuch together with the Apostles as possibly they could and had their holy assemblies their exhortations praiers and the administratioÌ„ of Baptisme secretly in priuat houses for fear of the Magistrats Now as I said the most of these being poore men and the Apostles themselues hauing nothing to liue vpon When any of the richer sorte did ioyne themselues to that meeting or congregation they sold such thinges as they had or thought meete and brought the price of it vnto the Apostles not onely for theyr owne maintenaunce but committed the distribution of it vnto them for the reliefe also of the rest that wanted and were not able to prouide for themselues those thinges that were necessary This charge as well for the saide religious exercises in their priuate assembly as for this distribution equally to be made as the occasions required the Apostles took vppon them more particularly for a short time then they did afterward vz. vntill the number of Christians in Ierusalem increased from 120. vnto fiue thousand at the least and did grow daily more and more so as they were as I thinke constrained to haue diuerse Congregations And then because they found it to be some hinderaunce vnto the execution of their generall Commission for the further dispersing of the Gospell they caused seuen men to be chosen such as were knowen to be of honest report and full of the holy Ghost and wisedome Vnto whom that businesse was more specially committed Who thenceforth might not onely according to their honesty and discretion take into their hands such money as shoulde be brought from time to time to the godly disposed for the purpose mentioned but also in the Apostles absence agreeably with the fulnes of the holy Ghost whereby they held the mysterye of faith in a pure conscience were to teach to comforte to moue to confirme in the faith the brethren in theyr particular congregations or meetings and likewise to offer their common praiers in al their names vnto the Lord and to baptise the children of the faithfull For the Apostles in appointing of these newe officers had as well regard to the Soules of the people as to their bodies And because at that time which was the infancy and first spring of the Church there were not such meete men as might be made Priests or as they tearme them now a daies preaching Elders it pleased the Apostles to haue them trained vp in that exercise and to make the office of Deacons a degree and a step to the fulnes of Priesthood Which is expressed by Saint Paul when he saith of Deacons qui bene ministrant gradum bonum sibi acquirent they that minister well shal purchase to themselues a good degree And this order or office of Deacons being thus as you haue heard first instituted at Hierusalent was afterward vppon the same occasions and for the same ends ordained in other Churches where alwaies they executed all the parts mentioned of their offices so long as the Churchâ—s continued wherein they were placed Or if it happened as it did after in IerusaleÌ„ that their Churches were dispersed so as contributions collections ceased yet they continued their
in their printed Supplication against all the new Iulianistes and Atheists mentioned CHAP. XXII They take from Christian Princes and ascribe to their pretended regiment the supreme and immediate authority vnder Christ in causes Ecclesiasticall IN the beginning of the reformation of Religion in Germany the learned men there opposing themselues verie mightely against the Popes vsurped iurisdiction did verie learnedly and soundlie shew and proue to their aduersaries the soueraigne authority of Christian Kinges and Princes in causes Ecclesiasticall within their owne dominions and countries Which authoritie vppon the banishment of the Pope as well there as after also in England was both there and here vnited by diuerse laws vnto the interest of their Crowns and to the lawfull right of ciuile regiment This doctrine since that time hath beene so very throughly maintained by sundrie notable men as Brentius against Asoto Bishop Horne against Fecknam Bishop Iuell against Harding and many other learned men against such other Papistes as haue taken vppon them to impugne it that I am perswaded had it not beene that newe aduersaries did rise opposed themselues in the matter the Papists before this time had beene vtterlie subdued For either vppon the attempt in Geneua for the erecting of the Consistorian gouernment which cannot endure any superior authority ouer it in causes Ecclesiasticall when Caluin and Viretus were banished the Citty or else vppon their restitution and after they had preuailed in their said attempt the Ministers there whether in reuenge of their banishment or least their Magistrats should at any time to come giue eare to the aforesaide Doctrine I will not saye but vppon some such occasion they did presentlie thrust themselues into this question that with such spitefull railing and bitternes as though they had conspired with the Pope and his Proctors against al other reformed churches that reiecting their pretended Discipline or new Papacie indeed had submitted themselues vnto the said lawfull authority of Christian Princes in causes Ecclesiasticall And hereof it came to speake the trueth plainelie that Caluin could not abide that King Henrye the eight should bee tearmed the head or supreme gouernour in Earth of the Churches of God within his Dominions And writing to one Myconius how certaine men in Geneua perswaded the Magistrates there Ne potestate quam illis Deus contulisset se abdicaerent that they woulde not depriue themselues of that authoritie which God had giuen them he tearmeth them according to the Consistorian language prophane spirites and mad men whom saith he if we speaking of himselfe and his fellowes shall ioine together to encounter and with a valiant and inuincible zeale fight for that holy authority vz. CoÌ„sistorian c the Lord with the breath of his mouth will destroy The saide Myconius in like sorte reporteth to Caluin from Basill how some in those borders did write to the like purpose in the behalfe of Christian Magistrates alledging the examples of Moises Dauid and other godlye Kinges which saith hee in effect is to make them Popes and then addeth quid si laici huiusmodi argumentis fuerint persuasi what if lay men shall be perswaded by such argumentes Indeede that will cutte the throate of all your soueraigntie But of all others that haue opposed themselues to Christian Princes in this matter besides Martin-Marre-Prelate and some such like companions amongest vs Viretus for rayling scoffing and biting passeth and excelleth Those that stand in defence of the Magistrates authoritie he resembleth to white Diuels and saith They are false Christians though they couer themselues with the cloake of the Gospell and the reformation of the same And againe The Ministers that haue forsaken the Romish Church in seeking to get the Magistrates and peoples fauour against the Pope Priestes and Monkes haue so despised the state of Priestood and Ministery of the Church and so magnified the state of the Magistrate that they now feele the fruict thereof he meaneth that the goods of the Church are thereby gone and wasted Further saith he they thought it a goodby reformation in the Churche to abolishe all the Canons and decrees with the good Statutes which the auncient Fathers and Doctors hadde ordayned to maintaine good Discipline in the Church They haue put all into the Magistrates handes and haue made them maisters of the Church which he tearmeth to be nothing else but the changing of the Popedome the taking away of both swordes from the Pope and giuing them to Princes the euerthrowing of a spirituall Pope and setting vppe a temporall Pope which vnder another colour will all come to one end Nay hee taketh vppon him to prooue that these Temporall Popes as hee tearmeth them are more to bee feared if they take roote and will be worse theâ— the Spirituall Popes and that so the olde Popishe â—yr 〈◊〉 is not taken awaie but onely changed and disguised And his reasons are First that the olde Pope had not the Temporall sworde in his own hand to punishe with death but was fayne to praye aide of the secular power which the neâ—e Pope's need not to doe Secondly that the olde Popes had some regarde in their dealinges of Councelles Synodes and aunciente Canons c. but the newe Popes will doe what they list without any Ecclesiasticall order bee it right or wronge Thirdlye because it chaunceth ofte that these newâ— Popes haue neither learning nor knowledge and yet these shall bee they that shall commaund Ministers and Preachers what they list on paine of their sworde and ministerie and shall appoint them lawes touching their estate and ministery and likewise to the whole Church Giue him also the hearing a little further I praie you Who so vseth such meanes to reforme the fault of the Pope doth not reforme the Church but deforme is more then it was before c. This I dare say that I see already in some places that vnder title of reformation by the Gospell some christian Princes haue in ten or twentie yeares vsurped more tyranny ouer the Churches in their Dominions then euer the Pope and his adherentes did in sixe hundred yeares And lastly If there be any Magistrates in these daies which vnder the title of authority and power that God hath giuen them c. will make the Ministers of the Church subiect vnto them as the Pope hath made them subiect to him and his c. the same doe verily set vp a newe Pope changing onely his coate and maske And thus far Viretus in his thirde Dialogue of white Diuels which was not written I feare by the instinct of anie good spirite nor without some euill direction translated into English of purpose to seede the seditious fier that our turbulent Copper-smiths following this Dâ—sciplinarie tract haue kindled alreadie amongest vs. I haue omitted his earnestnes in the behalfe of his own and Caluins Discipline that the authority thus denied to Princes might be yeelded to them and
execute vvhatsoeuer they conclude be it good or bad vve say that if there be no lavvfull ministerie as in time of necessitie Dauid did eat the shevv bread vvhich vvas othervvise lavvfull for the priests only to eat of that then the Prince ought to set order and that vvhen there is a lavvfull ministerie if it shall agree of any vnlavvfull thing the Prince ought to stay it Surely you are very proper and right liberall sayers Doth not your admonisher affirme that if your platforme were once on foot all men must stand vnto the determinations of your maiesticall church officers that I may vse maister VVakes tearme except it should happen in some matter of faith they should make decrees against the vvord of God And I pray you if any such thing should happen how could the king reforme it or as you say stay it He iudgeth their sayd orders to be erronious and perceaueth the mischiefes that do depend vpon them but how shall he redresse and preuent them Shall he compell the authors of them to assemble themselues together againe and to retract and condemne all such their decrees They are of that humor as experience hath told vs that it is vnlikely they will be compelled to any thing No it were too great a disgrace for them to yeeld in any thing that once they haue broached were it good or bad but especially when it is decreed in any of their worshipfull meetings And besides if the king should presse them too far in such a matter he might find them peraduenture but very ticklish subiects Cartvvright to shuffle vp some blundering answer to these points sayth That if in such a case the church ministers should shevv themselues obstinate and vvould not be aduised by the Prince they should thereby prooue themselues to be an vnlavvfull ministerie that vpon such an occasion the Prince might remooue thē Remouethē How By any ordinarie authoritie which you do allow to the christian magistrats in causes ecclesiasticall But you haue told vs before your mind herein In effect that it must be done by an extraordinarie authoritie euen by the same right that Dauid did eat of the shew-bread which were it not in such a case of necessitie none but the Priests might in any wise eat of For otherwise as it is before mentioned where such a platforme is in execution as they seeke for the Prince hath not any thing to doe by their doctrine God knoweth either with placing or displacing of church ministers Or if Cartvvright will say that I wrest his words to the worst construction and that he meaneth plainely as purposing thereby to confirme for his part her maiesties ordinarie supreme authoritie in those maner of causes I am content he make the best of his owne words that he can whether he meant ordinarie or extraordinarie authoritie so that when he hath done he will stand vnto it But let him say what he is able yet he hath a woolfe by the eares and shall neuer be able so to shift his hands but that it will follow that both he and all the pastors doctors and elders that are combined with him are by his words both obstinate and vnlawfull ministers except he shall withdraw this part of his wall as being to weake to make such a separation from the papists as he pretendeth For notwithstanding that the present gouernment of the church of England is established and confirmed by a nationall synod with the generall cōsent of the whole land to be a most lawful godly forme of gouernment notwithstanding that her Maiestie doth so thinke of it and hath shewed herselfe many waies as by her acts of parlemēt her proclamatiōs her sundry speeches yea by the punishing imprisoning of some certaine persons vtterly to dislike of their pretended discipline as being in her princely iudgement a meere forgerie vaine conceit of busie restlesse heads cōtrary to the word of God and ancient practise of all the godly churches in the world for 1500 yeares all these things I say notwithstanding yet they haue rayled libelled raged against the said present gouernmēt They haue and do still neglect as well her maiesties setled iudgment of the vnlawfulnesse of their decreed platforme as also her lawes her pleasure and many commandements that they should desist hereafter from that their erronious deuise and submit themselues quietly to the forme established Nay they are so far from yeelding in this point to any authoritie of her maiestie whether ordinarie or extraordinarie as that they haue attempted by very vnlawfull and seditious means to aduance their purposes against her highnesse will and do plainly giue it out that they wil not desist they will not hold their peace they will haue their desires though they be driuen to vndertake such means for that end as will make their hearts to ake who are their cheese impugners Stand now to your words maister Cartvvright if you meant plainly vz. If the ministerie shall agree of any vnlavvfull thing the prince ought to stay it and then are not all the packe of you concluded by your said answer to be obstinat persons and a false ministerie If you haue any refuge in the world it is this that whatsoeuer the said nationall councell the learned mens opinions that do impugne you the lawes of this realme all the ancient churches and her maiestie relying vpon them whatsoeuer they altogether do thinke iudge to be lawfull you care not or you are sory for it but all that notwithstanding you are sure for that you haue decreed amōgst your selues vz. that you haue not therein erred and therefore they must all beare with you though you rest your selues vpon the truth of your own decrees giue no place either to councel law prince fathers learned men or any other authoritie whatsoeuer that maketh against you And will not H.N. and Barovv will not al hereticks schismaticks say as much where is then the princes authoritie you spake of For staying such kind of proceeding what course shall he take These ministers as I sayd conclude vpon their owne deuises The king considereth of them and findeth them vnlawfull but they denie it what shall hee do Your refuge Cartvvright is euerie Heretickes refuge If her Maiestie with all the reasons mentioned cannot stay you and your sect let neuer any king or ciuile magistrat looke by any authoritie which you do giue vnto them in causes ecclesiasticall to stay the fancies of any such fellowes But the substance of all their deuises is nothing but pretences of things that are not And agreeable therevnto is this second part of Cartvvrights wall of the difference betweene him and the Papists who in effect for ought I see are as franke to Christian Princes euen in this point as either he or his fellowes Princes extraordinarily sayth Harding haue laudably intermedled vvith Religion as iudges and rulers of spirituall causes Good Christian Princes euer tooke into their
sibi persuasit papa diaboli vicarius The pastors themselues shall not be Christ's vicars as he is priest vvhich office notvvithstanding the pope the diuels vicar tooke falsely vpon him The pastors he saith shall not be Christs vicars as he is a priest And thē ther is no remedie They shal not How shal they hold then immediatly of him as he is a prophet That is it They are his substitutes or vicars saith hee onely as he is a prophet Did any man euer say so before Surely not to my remembrance Maister Fenner in his diuinitie perused by maister Cartvvright and allowed of at Geneua can find but two kinds of offices appertaining to Christ vz. his priesthood and his kingly office and therfore he maketh prophesie a part of his priesthood It is much what also to the same purpose and directly contrary to I. B. that the diuinitie grounds printed at Geneua do affirme by the mouth of one Abraham Henric where they say Pastorū ministeriū vt olim sacerdotum c. The dutie of pastors as in times past of the priests consisteth in three things teaching administring of the sacraments publicke praier So as either I.B. must be content that ministers may be Christs vicars as he is a priest or else I see not how he will bestow them You will say peraduēture that they may be Christs vice-gerēts as he is a king but that as I sayd he will not indure If any might be Christs vicars sayth he as he is a king the Apostles Prophets Euangelists Ministers and Doctors might be his vicars At ne hi quidem quia rex est dicendi sunt vicarij But they neither are to be called Christs vicars as he is a king Well some place they must haue there is no remedie I dare say you would smile if it should so fall out that all our consistorian ministers will needs bee Christs substitutes in that he is a king Surely I must tell you it proueth so For as touching I. B. they reckon him I perceaue but a simple politian Christs kingdome it hath bene truly vrged is not of this world it is plea good enough against our bishops but it holdeth not to impaire the estimation of our petit consistorian kings A distinction will helpe thē at a pinch Christs kingdome is not of this world but it ought to be in this world Do you not here desire to know what this kingdome is That I may not keepe you long in suspence it is the Geneuian Eldership and euen the very same kingdome saith our counterpoizer vvhere of Christ spake many times after his resurrection by the space of sortie daies as the Iesuits themseluss are compelled to confesse See the seducer Who cōpelled the Iesuits to say so would not a man haue thought that this place had bene vrged by some protestants against the papists for the ouerthrow of some especiall points of poperie wher vpon after much paines the Iesuits bad bene driuen in spight of their heads to admit of the interpretatiō mētioned But it is clean contrary the Iesuits do abuse this place of purpose in the behalfe of the Antichristian Romish form of church regimēt so doth the Counterpoizer following the Iesuits therin for the setting forth of their Geneuian papacy or Regalitie I could adde here a number of strange sayings whereof you shall here anon in some other chapters following concerning this new presbiteriall kingdome But now it is more pertinent to make the point I haue in hand more apparant vnto you Christ as a king prescribed the forme of ecclesiasticall gouernment saith Cartvvright not as a priest nor as a prophet but as a king With Cartvvright his scholler Dudlie Fenner doth agree in this point setteth downe the first part of his kingly administration to be about the building and continuance of the church by the officers appointed Eph. 4.11.12.13 Maister Beza also he runneth the same course how Christ being a king the head of the church doth administer his kingdome Per legitime vocatos pastores by pastors lavvfully called And Sonnius in like manner affirmeth that Christ doth execute his kingly office in the collectiō of the church by the ministerie of the word and sacraments and by the internall gouernment of his spirit and the external of the ministerie Here is indeed very roiall preferment for al the ministers of the word But I meruaile how the ruling elders do hold their authoritie They are neither priests nor prophets of likelihood then they must be little kings Wel then Christ is the king the presbiterie is his kingdome his immediat vice-gerents they are all of them What Surely by the due course of degrees which are acknowledged the pastors must be all of thē as it were emperors the doctors kings the elders dukes and the deacons lords of the treasurie c. And for the authoritie of euery such kingdom it must needs fal out to be very soueraign For if euery presbiterie as it is before noted be properly to be called the body of Christ and the true portraiture of the catholick church that euery one of thē is of equall authoritie now that the officers in them are Christs immediat vice-gerēts within their own kingdoms who shall controll any of their doings or whither should a man appeale if he found himselfe iniuried I remember maister Bezas saying That euery eldership is the tribunall seat of Christ. Which is all one almost with the assertion of some Romish parasits that the pope and Christ haue but one consistorie They tell vs of appellations from an eldership to a classis from a classis to a prouinciall synod from a prouincial synod to a nationall from a nationall vnto a generall councell But as the papists do make euery appellation from the pope to be as absurd and all one as if the appeale were made from Christ so must it necessarily follow to be as vntollerable to appeale from any consistorie it being as it hath bene affirmed the tribunall seat of Christ and the officers in it Christs immediat gouernors And because it is pretended that the regiment they speake of is in the best perfection at Geneua I would gladly know whither a man might appeale vpon occasion from that eldership there The churches of Bern or Zuricke haue no more to do with the church of Geneua they will say then Geneua hath to do with them or an eldership in Scotland with another of the low countries But I haue taried too long vpon this matter in collecting vpon their contrarie assertions Therefore to conclude I would wish all christian and godly magistrats that haue as yet in their hands the lawfull authoritie in church-causes which belongeth vnto them by the word of God to keepe it stil vntill at the least these disciplinarie deuisers be fully resolued whether we must account thē priest prophets or kings priests if they be Christs substitutes as he is a
that question were resolued but that point standeth vppon an if Nay assure yourselues it is past peraduenture they would take it in great scorne that such a matter should rest vndecided Where it is held by the Churches of Heluetia that such Elderships as they of Geneua talke of are needlesse where there is a Christian magistrate and thereupon the now L. Archbishop of Canterbury for disputations sake reasoning that if there were any such Elders then yet it doth not followe they should bee receiued now Cartwright and his schollers are peremptorie that the offices of those Elderships are the rather to bee continued vnder a Christian magistrate And the learned Discourser sayth as confidently in the like case that the same authoritie which the Church had before there was a Christian Magistrate doth still continue when there is one or else as he addeth we would be glad to learne how this authoritie was translated from the Church in which it was once lawfully vsed vnto the ciuill Magistrate Agreeable to both which resolutions is that saying of Trauerse That Heathen Princes being become Christians doe receiue no further increase of their authoritie than they had before while they were in paganisme It is well By these rules then all is theirs They are Kings Princes the very immediate vicegerentes of Iesus Christ vppon earth And good reason they should then haue both the swords nay twenty swords if there were so many And besides seeing they haue to deale in all causes they must haue all lawes in the closets of their brestes at the least authoritate let scientia come by Cartwrights deuise vpon the suddaine into them how it may at leysure But hereof sufficiently Howsoeuer they crie our against our Bishoppes for intermedling with mo matters than they are able to discharge yet you see into what an infinite sea of affaires they would thrust their Elderships allowing generally that in themselues which formerly they haue condemned in others As by the next Chapter it will appeare more plainely vnto you CHAP. XXVI Those things they reprooue as vnlawfull in others they allow in themselues THere is nothing better knowne than with what contempt and bitternesse diuers amongst vs haue written against the authoritie of Bishoppes especially Archbishops and yet I perceiue that if they might attaine to such an authoritie it would bee well enough accepted For thus their Maister Beza writeth What was ordayned in times past concerning the appointing of prouinciall Synodes by the Metropolitane appeareth manifestly by the olde Canons Neither are we the men who if the ruines of Churches were repayred doo thinke eyther that order or some other like vnto it to be reiected So as these two things bee obserued That a tyrannie be not brought againe into the Church as though the holy Ghost were tyed to some certaine seate or person and that all thinges should be doone to edification c. Indeede hee is already the Primate Archbishop or Metropolitane in effect of all the prouince of Geneua or at the least hee easily foresaw that if anie such order should bee restored againe amongst them hee was the onely man for that great preferment When this worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the sixt Canon of the Councell of Nice is brought and vrged to proue the authoritie right and iurisdiction of the Bishop of Alexandria ouer the Churches in diuers countries there mentioned then it must signifie nothing in that place if wee shall beleeue Cartwright but onely a dignitie or preheminence in meetings to goe or sit before the rest But if you talke of the power authoritie and iurisdiction of their Eldershippes then sayth Danaeus Vox potestatis in hac disputatione significat 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the word of power signifieth as this Greeke worde doth properly import And what is that Forsooth Ius authoritatem alicuius gubernationis illi traditae id est alicuius reigerendae regendae Right and authoritie of some gouernment giuen vnto such a power that is of the gouernement and rule of some thing Nowe if this worde might haue beene so happie as to haue retained this signification in the sayde Councell of Nice where there is speach of Bishops Cartwright had beene put to his plunge and Bezaes annotation mentioned would not haue helped him a rush There is nothing more vsually obiected against the present estate superioritie and authoritie of Bishoppes than the place of Peter Neque vt dominantes in cleris Not as though yee were Lordes ouer the Clergie And that of Luke 22. Vos autem non sic But you shall not be so And it will not bee admitted in anie wise that wee should expound those places of ambitious affectation of tyrannous practise or of the abuse of such superioritie â—or iurisdiction But if you will speake of the right authoritie and iurisdiction of their Elderships the case is cleane altered There are some as it seemeth beyond the seas who seeing the pride of the consistorian gouernement doe affirme That the power of the Church is onely spirituall and not any external exercise practise and right of any authoritie power and gouernment With this opposition so much derogating from the dignitie of their Elderships Danaeus is mooued and answering that conceit sayth that although the power of the Church ad animarum salutem sit comparata be instituted for the health of soules yet notwithstanding it hath necessarily annexed vnto it an indissoluble band an externall exercise practise and vse iuris gubernationis of lawe and gouernment Against this aunswere replye as it seemeth is made with the same places mentioned that are vrged against our Bishops Whervpon Danaeus to make all thinges cleare addeth these wordes to his former aunswere and publisheth the same from Geneua Nam quod c. Whereas it may bee obiected out of Peter Non dominantes c. Not bearing rule c. And out of Luke Vos autem non sic but you shall not be so Facilè soluitur it is easily aunswered Damnatur enim partim abusus non vsus illius potestatis partim illius cum ciuili confusio for partly the abuse is condemned not the vse of that power and partly the confusion of it with the ciuill power Which is the verie aunswere that wee doe make and approoue beeing extorted from them by Gods good prouidence for the stopping of our mens mouthes who vppon pretence of those places haue opened them so wide against the lawfull authoritie of our Bishops It hath beene greatly grudged-at by these reformers that Bishoppes are allowed to bee of the vpper house of Parliament and saine they would haue them out if they knew how Notwithstanding for ought I can finde they haue enioyed that honourable prerogatiue euer since there was an high Court of Parliament in England And still the worde of God is made the pretence for whatsoeuer they desire so as euer you vnderstand that they
no longer this wonderfull thing that Trauerse speaketh off is this vz. that as it seemeth some of the said Churches so highly by him commended haue by vertue of their discipline excommunicated alreadie some great princes or Kinges If he had not himselfe published this matter in print and propounded the same as a president for the honour of his discipline I would not haue presumed yee maie be sure to haue touched it Neyther yet will I further meddle with it then onely to set downe his wordes After a long discourse how where there discipline is on foote there is nothing in effect amisse no priuate administration of the sacraments no baptizing or reading of seruice by Deacons no commutation of pennaunce no respect of persons he saith thus Memorable is that rare but right christian example of Theodosius the Emperor publicklye humbling himselfe vnder the hande of God and professing his repentance for his bloodye commaundement and the cruell execution done accordinge to it A president well worthy so christian a prince the honour of the Discipline yea and of the whole church of that age Such Theodosians haue the reformed churches of this age to speake off to the high honor of almighty God and his onlye begotten sonne Christ Iesus king of kinges Wherein a Prince of bloode royall and by birth within a step or two to one of the greatest Kingdomes of these partes of the worlde and for princely giftes worthy to haue borne a Scepter in his hande and a Diademe vpon his heade when as another Dauid hee hadde been ouerthrowen by Sathan and committed things for which the name of God was euill spoken off endured to heare the seruant of God as Dauid did Nathan to rebuke him lamenting his offence openly before the publicke assembly of the Church desired pardon of God and reioyced heauen and earth men and Angels with his conuersion from sinne to the obedience of the liuing God blessed for euer Amen Whose christian president both a crowned King and also a worthie sonne of that noble Father haue followed after that by terror of as barbarous crueltie as hath beene commited in any age they had done otherwise then Daniell and the yonge princes brought vp with him did in a case not vnlike to theyrs c. Hitherto Trauers And what this importeth iudge you I will aunswere no questions who these Theodosians are As princes like it let them allow it And thus of the commendation of this gouernment which if it were true indeed and that it had by any lawfull title so Regall an authority as here you see is pretended who would not almost fall downe and worshippe it But you must belieue them with discretion Men that thinke they know this platforme as well as the best of those that haue extolled it do carrie a farre differing opinion of it And therefore they haue been bold to write of it as followeth It is a sillye Presbytery or Eldership A sequestred withdrawen Presbyterye A sweeping new reformation A presumptuous irregular Consistory which hath no grounde in the worde of God A second beast Let them consider how far the â—auinge of such a Consistorie and Pastor in one Congregation differeth from that Apostolicall sea of Rome and that holy father that sitteth therein Of this Consistorie through the whole testament they can shew no warraunt They make themselues transgressors of the worshippe of God disturbers violaters of that holy order which Christ hath established in his Church These deceitfull workemen not onelye builde theyr owne timber and stubble deuises but most highly prophane that heauenly frame and gratious gouernement of Christ. In their leauened and corrupt writings of discipline and theyr supplications vnto the Parliament are declared theyr pernitious forgeries and sacrilegious prophanation of Gods holy ordinance They fetch their reformation from the primatiue defection That counterfeyt reformation which these counterfeit preachers pretende is as euill as that which is alreadie Both these factions pontificall and reformists woulde assume the whole gouernment of the Church into theyr owne handes How can o these forgers these coyners of religion seeme sue to cast out the heape of humane traditions as contrary and such as cannot bee ioyned vnto or with the testament of Christ and yet bring in these forgeries of theyr owne Is it likely or possible that our Sauiour Christ woulde fetch his patterne for the Elders of his Church and the executing of these high iudgements from that corrupt degenerate Synedrion of the Iewes which by the institutioÌ„ of God was merely ciuile and not ordayned for causes ecclesiasticall as appeareth Exod. 18. Num. 11. Deut. 1 The priestes bearing the charge and hauing the deciding of all ecclesiasticall causes Num. 18. Deut. 17. But this Councell of theyrs was now mixed of the Elders of the people and the Priestes and handled all causes both ciuile and Ecclesiasticall indifferently Mat. 26.3 Act. 4.5 If by the light of Gods word you examine and measure the secret Classis the ordinary sette Synods and Councels of ministers as they tearme themselues which these reformists now priuilie bring in and would openly set vp they shall no doubt be found as new strange antichristiaÌ„ as preiudicial to the libertie of the Saincts and to the power right and duties of the whole Church and as contrary to the gospell of our Lord Iesus Christ as the gouernement by Bishops c. what shew so euer of former antiquitie or of present necessitie they may pretend It is a new r adulterate forged gouernement in shew or rather in dispight of Christs blessed gouernment which they in pride rashnes ignoraunce and sensualytye of theyr fleshly hartes most miserablye innouate corrupt and peruert Theyr most exquisite plots of gouernment which they can deuise vnto theÌ„selues are but the instruments of foolish shepeheards to theyr owne perdition and of as many as are gouerned by them There is great difference we may perceiue hereby betweene the opinions of these two sorts of men concerning this presbyteriall forme of the new pretended discipline If any that are possessed with the former mens conceites shall lightly esteeme what this second sort of fellowes doe hold or thinke of their platforme he is to be put in mind that they are not so lightly to be regarded Diuerse ministers well reckoned of heretofore for their learning are lately fallen from Cartwright and his secte into another more new frenzy of Barrowisme In a letter that was taken not long since I find some points to this effect The preachers of Midleborow and Flushing haue both giuen ouer their vnlawfull callings M. Iohnson hath written a most learned discourse concerning the striking of a newe couenaunt with some conferences had in that country It is also reported and I am perswaded by that which I haue seene that the report is true vz. that maister Penry is entered in like manner into this
of our seruice of God and all our lawes orders ceremonies and priuileges thervnto appertaining to haue had the Geneua discipline established in place thereof may greatly reioice at their good discretion considering that if then they had preuailed we had admitted of that forme of church-gouernment which the very cheefe supplicators instigators of them at that time do now themselues condemne as you haue heard into the pit of hell and so they might haue bene as readie to haue set forward this second deuise as they were for the former But men I hope will be more carefull hereafter then to be carried away with euery noueltie if it haue but any shew of reasonable probabilitie And maister Cartwright with the rest of his chiefe adherents might certainly do God and the church great seruice if without any longer standing vpon the maintainance of their own credits they would be content to confesse their former ouersights in laying downe those false principles wherevpon the new hereticks do build and acknowledge the truth vz. that the present gouernment of the church of England as both holy and Apostolicall and that the reformation of religion already made by her maiesties most princely care and heauenly direction is such a reformation abuses there may be and it were heresie to dreame of any puritie as euery good Christian ought to praise God for it from the bottome of his heart and not onely to allow of it but to maintayne and defend it both with his goods and life Maister Cartvvright began well in his epistle against Harrison but he should do better if hee would so continue and proceede forward One extremitie is best discerned by the other Barrovves folly may teach him wisedome The consequence doth often shew the grossenesse of the Antecedent And many learned men haue bene brought by the importunitie of such kind of aduersaries to see their own mistakings and so to grow vnto a farre better moderation As euen in the chapter following and in this very cause of discipline it will appeare I trust vnto you CAP. XXXIIII Of their disagreement concerning the necessitie of the Consistoriall gouernment IT were very hard if the fauourers of the Geneua platforme should vrge the same vvith any pretence of necessitie They talke of pastors doctors elders deacons widdowes and of many things els but as yet besides their obstinacie to continue in the course which they haue begun for the maintenance of their credits they are not throughly agreed almost in any thing To tell vs therfore of a matter that should be necessarie and withall to confesse in effect that they know not what it is should argue in my opinion some very great rashnesse and follie When maister Caluin dealt with maister Bullinger and others for their good fauour and friendship towards the continuance of his new deuised platforme in Geneua as you haue heard at large in the second chapter there was not a word you may sweare it of any necessitie that all oother churches should be enforced to submit thēselues to that deuise M. Caluin himselfe at that time as I am persuaded did not so much as dreame of any such matter A very graue and learned man of the French nation hath faythfully reported that when the forme of the Geneua discipline was first admitted of by the ministers of France in one of their cheefest synods which hath bene kept there of late yeares about the Church affaires it was not then receaued by them in that assemblie as a necessary order prescribed by Christ that ought alwaies to be continued but as a forme of discipline conuenient and fit for the afflicted estate of their churches in those times which might afterwards bee altered and changed as occasions should require And because you might not doubt of the certayntie of this report You shall vnderstand that the author of it was himselfe present in the sayd assemblie and not a man of the meanest account amongst them With whom also another great person of that countrie a man of state and great learning agreed when hee affirmed to one of very good place in England as the same partie hath told me that the forme of discipline which is now receaued by the French ministers was neuer meant by them to be otherwise admitted of then for an interim till things might be better considered of and ordered These testimonies I vrge no further then as reports neyther would I haue you to giue any further credit vnto them then as you shall thinke meet vpon this my bare relation Howbeit whether the persons specified did make any such report or not it seemeth to mee that the thing it selfe is true which they are sayd to haue reported For thus I find it set downe in the end of the forme of Ecclesiasticall discipline agreed vpon by the resolution not of one but of fiue generall Synods of the reformed Churches of the realme of Fraunce These articles say they vvhich are here contayned touching discipline are not so decreed vpon amongst vs but if the profite of the church shall require they may bee chaunged But it shall not bee in the povver of one priuate man to do it vvithout the aduise and consent of a generall councell In all maister Caluins time for ought I find the necessitie which now is pretended for the consistoriall discipline was no where insisted vpon A church in those daies might haue had all the true notes of the church of Christ although it had wanted that platforme of Geneua Maister Caluin in his Institutions could find but tvvo necessary Simbola ecclesiae dignoscendae verbi predicationem sacramentorum obseruationem signes of discerning the church the preaching of the vvord and the obseruation of the sacraments Bertrand de Loque in like sort he was able to bring forth no other substantiall notes of the Church but those tvvo No more was Philip of Mornay the lord of Plessis He maketh mention indeed of a third marke vz. the lawfull vocation of pastors but hee sayth that it is not a marke of substance In the great assemblie at Poictiers in France 1561 vvhere Peter Martir A Marlorat N. Galatius and diuers other ministers of the reformed churches were present maister Beza being there also and hauing his turne to speake before the king of Fraunce the queene of Nauarre the cardinall of Lorraine and sundrie other bishops hee durst not insist vpon any other firme and certaine notes of the visible Church of Christ but the two notes mentioned purum dei verbum sincera sacramentorum administratio the pure vvord of God and the sincere administration of the sacraments There are sayth hee some that do adde ecclesiasticall discipline and the fruits of preaching sed c. duabus illis erimus contenti but c. vve vvill bee content vvith these tvvo first Agreeably to this doctrine that there are but two necessarie and substantiall marks of the church the cheefest learned men in Christendome both
Christiā whosoeuer to separat himselfe either from their assemblies or from the receiuing of the Lords supper with them But if any so did he assigneth him his place amongst certain old hereticks Olim duae fuerunt haereticorum sectae c. In times past there vvere sayth he tvvo sorts of hereticks vvhich troubled the Church greatly The one sort of them vvere called Puritans the other Donatists And both of them vvere in the same error that these dreamers are in seeking for a Church vvherein there should vvant nothing that might be desired Therefore they diuided themselues from the vniuersall society of Christians least they should be defiled vvith other mens impurities But vvhat came of it Dominus eos cum tam arroganticoepto dissipauit The Lord himselfe scattered them vvith that their proud attempt Where by the way it is meet to be obserued that a man may sticke so fast to the Geneua discipline as he may prooue himselfe to bee either a puritane or a Donatist or both Maister Beza in like maner by reason of some opposition which hath bene made against the Sauoyan platforme is growne as it seemeth to some kind of moderation For speaking of the pretended necessitie of it hee sayth that the doctrine onely vz. vvhat vve are to beleeue is absolutely necessarie and also further addeth that seeing a man sometimes may be saued vvithout the participation of the sacraments the same may bee sayd much more of the vvant of ecclesiasticall discipline Now verely we are to thanke him he hath done much for vs. We may be saued though the memorie of this discipline were vtterly buried But the point which I chiefely note is this that there is great difference in maister Bezaes iudgement betwixt the necessitie of the first two notes of the church and this third of his own deuise And therein he giueth in effect the flat lye to maister Cartvvright for charging him to hold that all the said 3 notes as they are notes were equally necessarie And Trauers also is checked by his good maister in that he wil needs make as it hath bene said the censures of his cōsistories to be in the same absolute degree of necessity both with the word and sacraments But I wil follow M. Beza whilest I haue him in his good mood The vvhole church vvanted circūcision in the vvildernes saith he vvhilest they vvere in Babylon they neither had temple nor sacrifices and yet neuerthelesse they ceassed not to be the people of God And the same may then be said much more of the ecclesiastical discipline vz. Ecclesias vt illa careant tamen ecclesias verè pias Christianas esse posse si doctrinam praecipuorū dogmatum purā ac sincerā habuerint That the churches that vvant that discipline may notvvithstanding bee indeed godly and Christian churches if they retaine the doctrine of the cheefest grounds pure and sincere Now if Beza will giue this testimonie of a church that wanteth both his discipline and the sacraments hauing but only the principall grounds of religiō what should he say of those churches which haue not onely a better discipline then that which hee vrgeth but also the said sincere grounds with the doctrine true vse of both the holy sacramēts in as great reuerence at the least as they haue them at Geneua You shall heare him what he is driuen to say of the present estate of the church of England The places haue bene cited in the eight chapter to another purpose He must be pardoned to come in with his If because any thing from him that soundeth not after the Geneua tune is very much But if the churches of England sayth he being vnderpropped vvith the authoritie of Bishops and Archbishops do firmely abide as this hath happened in our memorie to that church that shee hath had men of that order not onely vvorthie Martyrs of God but most singular pastors and doctors fruatur sane ista singulari Dei beneficentia quae vtinam illi sit perpetua Let her enioy this singular goodnesse of God vvhich I pray shee may so do for euer And in another place speaking likewise vvith some good tearmes of the Church of England and of our Archbishops and Bishops he turneth himselfe cleane about and sayth that they of Geneua do not prescribe to any church to follovv their peculiar example like vnto ignorant men vvho thinke nothing vvell but that they do themselues Againe also the same maister Beza in his booke which Erastus confuted not in that which Beza hath since published but in the written and true copie of it he speaketh in this sort Nomine ecclesia Geneuensis in the name of the church of Geneua to those that account the Geneuian Eldership to be but humanum commentum a humane deuise Petimus vt quemadmodum patienter ferimus ipsos a nobis c. dissentire VVe desire of them that as vve suffer them patiently to dissent from vs c. so they vvould heare vs modestly refelling their arguments nullo cum ecclesiarum preiudicio quas sibi credit as administrant VVithout any preiudice to those churches that they haue taken the charge of For vvhere some do obiect that vve account those churches that vvant either excommunication or such an eldership to be no churches it is obiected immerito Deus testis est vndeseruedly on our parts God is our vvitnesse and it is much more a slander vvhere it is giuen out that vve do bring a nevv tyrannie into the church nostra velle reliquis obtrudere and endeuor to obtrude our forme of discipline vnto the rest of the reformed churches Non est ita fratres It is not so brethren Furthermore in like manner in the same place afterward Quicunque vero hanc disciplinam in suis ecclesiis non modo inutilem verumetiam noxiam fore iudicant fruantur sane suo sensu c. VVhosoeuer do iudge this discipline not only vnprofitable but hurtfull to their churches let them enioy their ovvn sense They vndoubtedly do see vvhat their flocks will indure neither doubt vve but that men of so great learning and of so great antiquitie our reuerend bretheren in the Lord haue their reasons Et quis nos constituit alieni gregis iudices And vvho hath made vs iudges of other mens flocks He seldome hath vttered a truer speech But how these sayings do agree with that which he hath sayd before in the third chapter you may not curiously scanne it Indeed he should seeme to be farre now from his former opinion when he sayd in effect That it vvas to little purpose for any church to admit of the gospell and to reiect his discipline But he writeth in mine opinion as it hath bene sayd of old time some courtiers in the world do vse to speake that is for the most part as the present occasion serueth their turnes Such companie they may fal into as they wil commend him to the skies whom
abroad and here at home with vs haue entred into the combat with the cruell and mortall enemies of true Religion the papists But now it is found out by maister Beza and some others forsooth that all the sayd learned men were deceaued and that the platforme of the Geneua discipline is an essentiall note of the church of Christ and as necessary as the word of sacraments If I should deliuer these two points vnto you vpon my bare word without any further proofe I thinke you would scarsely beleeue me Heare therefore my vvitnesses not to be excepted against I tell you And first for the pretended necessitie maister Beza shevving the true markes of the church saith Cartvvright addeth to the tvvo former the discipline framed according to the vvord Conf. 5.7 So that vvhatsoeuer necessitie commeth vnto the vvord and sacraments in that they are notes the same commeth also vnto the discipline by maister Bezaes iudgement And surely that is sufficient Hee were a presumptuous cōpanion that would not rest in Bezaes iudgement Well then you see the necessitie of their discipline now marke the essentialitie of it In a certaine draught of discipline whereof you shall heare in the Chapter agreed vpon and subscribed vnto by Cartvvright and many other ministers of his bent for a conclusion of that worke they haue set downe these words Atque haec disciplina c. And this discipline the title vvhereof is inscribed The discipline of the church described in the vvord of God is taken out of the most pure fountains of the holy scriptures and c omprehendeth the necessarie and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is essentiall discipline of the church common for al times Take that away from any thing that which is of the essence and being of it and as I take it it presently ceaseth to haue any being at all From the conceit of this necessitie of the Geneua discipline these and many other such like speeches haue bene vttered in printed bookes to the simple people The want of the Eldership is the cause of all euill It is not to be hoped for that any Common-wealth will flourish without it The discipline is no small part of the gospell It is of the substance of it Without this discipline there can be no right religiō They that reiect this discipline refuse to haue Christ raigne ouer them And denie him in effect to be their king or their Lord. Scis c. you know there is one and the selfe same author of doctrine and discipline to what purpose therefore should we receiue one part of the word without the other In some sense of necessarie the ecclesiasticall discipline is necessary to saluation It is necessarie in regard of Gods holy ordinance and appointment the contemptuous breach of whose commandements be they great or little in our account is damnable to all those that despise them For the vse of the censures the office of elders is in his place necessarie The deacons office is not so directly tending to the saluation of the soule But yet being Gods ordinance it is of the necessitie of obedience In effect the ministerie of the censures of the church is in the same absolute degree of necessitie to saluation vvith the ministerie of the vvord and sacraments It is much that hath bene hitherto noted for the pretended necessitie of this Sauoyan church-gouernment but that is most memorable that Trauers affirmeth of the French churches of the churches of the low-countries vz. in effect that it is become alreadie to be one of the articles of their creed Thus he setteth downe their words following contayned as hee sayth in their confessions VVe beleeue the true Church ought to bee gouerned by that policie and discipline vvhich our Lord Iesus Christ hath ordayned namely so that there bee in that Pastors elders and deacons And the Churches of the Low-countries VVe beleeue that this true church ought to be ruled and gouerned by that spirituall policie vvhich God himselfe hath taught vs by his vvord so as there bee in it pastors and Ministers Elders and Deacons vvho may make the Seigniorie of the Church By that which here is sayd being compared with that which hath bene sayd before of our Englishmens pretended deacons how they are altogether excluded frō hauing any place in their seigniorie it appeareth that they disagree from the Churches of Fraunce and of the Low-countries in some of the articles of their beleefe But you shall heare maister Trauers very graue collections vpon the sayd two of those Churches confessions It is very vvorthie the obseruation sayth he that these Churches vvherein there are an infinite number of godly men c. in such a confession as they declare their fayth in haue thought it a necessarie article to set dovvne this point of the pollicie or discipline of the church and that in declaring of it they say not vvhat they suppose but vvhat they beleeue vsing the same vvord vvhich they do vse in the articles of faith and doctrine The papists talke much of the Colliers faith that beleeued as the Church beleeued but what the church beleeued hee knew not And truly as Trauers sayth it is worthy the obseruation indeed that seing as I sayd and haue at large shewed it in the former chapters there is not a church in Europe which hath receaued that platforme that can tell for her life which way as yet to turne her selfe for the full maintainance of it there should bee any that would presume to thrust it into their beleefe except they do approue of the Colliers faith and will say they beleeue whatsoeuer maister Beza beleeueth although neyther he himselfe nor they do know what hee beleeueth in that point I do rather therefore incline to thinke that Trauers wresteth their words against their meaning and that they only purposed by that phrase of speech we beleeue to shew but their minds and opinions of that forme of discipline not suspecting that any man would inforce that they euer meant therby to make it an article of their beleefe But howsoeuer either they or any other haue formerly meant in the heat of their desires towards their beloued platform and so haue gone much too far in vrging the necessitie of it as being an essentiall note of the church yet vpon better aduise it seemeth that they are growne a little more coole Maister Caluin loued the eldership as well as the best of them because it was the workmanship of his own hands but yet he thought it not meet to make it an essential note of the church or a matter of the importance of saluation The Anabaptists with whom he dealt in his time kept him from that extremitie and made him to reuerēce other churches and to acknowledge them for such churches of Christ although they wanted the forme of his censuring discipline as that it was not lawfull for any