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christian_n christian_a church_n unity_n 1,522 5 9.2638 5 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A41388 Firmianus and Dubitantius, or, Certain dialogues concerning atheism, infidelity, popery, and other heresies and schisme's that trouble the peace of the church and are destructive of primitive piety written in a plain and easie method for the satisfaction of doubting Christians / by Tho. Good. Good, Thomas, 1609-1678. 1674 (1674) Wing G1029; ESTC R23950 83,883 174

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facilius_fw-la credas_fw-la prophetiae_fw-la si_fw-la sis_fw-la discipulus_fw-la naturae_fw-la if_o we_o be_v conversant_a in_o the_o work_n of_o nature_n they_o will_v lead_v we_o to_o the_o knowledge_n and_o belief_n of_o scripture_n there_o be_v a_o most_o sweet_a harmony_n betwixt_o those_o two_o book_n the_o book_n of_o nature_n and_o the_o book_n of_o grace_n what_o be_v say_v of_o the_o one_o monstrat_fw-la quaelibet_fw-la herba_fw-la deum_fw-la every_o herb_n or_o plant_n do_v show_v there_o be_v a_o god_n be_v most_o true_a of_o the_o scripture_n quaelibet_fw-la linea_fw-la deum_fw-la refert_fw-la every_o line_n in_o this_o book_n show_v we_o the_o power_n providence_n and_o wisdom_n of_o god_n and_o if_o the_o atheist_n will_v disdain_v to_o read_v this_o excellent_a commentary_n upon_o the_o book_n of_o nature_n let_v he_o serious_o peruse_v the_o text_n the_o harmonious_a beauty_n and_o order_n of_o the_o universe_n plato_n and_o some_o other_o of_o the_o ancient_n be_v use_v to_o demonstrate_v the_o
firm._n as_o the_o kingdom_n of_o heaven_n do_v not_o consist_v in_o meat_n and_o drink_n but_o in_o righteousness_n and_o peace_n rom._n 14._o so_o neither_o do_v it_o consist_v in_o gesture_n vesture_n or_o any_o thing_n that_o be_v in_o itself_o indifferent_a when_o the_o church_n command_v we_o to_o wear_v such_o a_o vestment_n or_o to_o use_v such_o a_o gesture_n for_o uniformity_n sake_n and_o outward_a decency_n not_o place_v any_o intrinsical_a holiness_n or_o absolute_a necessity_n in_o any_o of_o those_o ceremony_n it_o be_v our_o duty_n and_o not_o any_o superstition_n at_o all_o to_o be_v obedient_a yea_o we_o be_v guilty_a of_o the_o sin_n of_o disobedience_n and_o superstition_n also_o if_o we_o stand_v out_o against_o lawful_a authority_n for_o there_o be_v a_o two_o fold_v superstition_n one_o positive_a as_o when_o we_o ascribe_v holiness_n to_o any_o thing_n that_o be_v in_o its_o own_o nature_n indifferent_a morral_o neither_o good_a nor_o evil_a another_o negative_a as_o when_o we_o dogmatise_v and_o call_v that_o evil_n which_o moral_o be_v not_o so_o and_o in_o such_o thing_n wear_v not_o kneel_v not_o be_v as_o much_o superstition_n as_o wear_v or_o kneel_v possible_o can_v be_v what_o be_v it_o to_o any_o understand_a man_n whether_o he_o pray_v or_o preach_v in_o black_a or_o white_a or_o any_o other_o colour_n unless_o it_o be_v for_o decency_n and_o uniformity_n the_o power_n of_o the_o church_n limit_n we_o to_o a_o white_a surplice_n rather_o than_o to_o a_o black_a jump_v or_o short_a cloak_n dub._n but_o be_v not_o this_o a_o entrenchment_n upon_o our_o christian_a liberty_n to_o be_v confine_v to_o particular_a mode_n and_o form_n firm._n not_o at_o all_o so_o long_o as_o our_o practice_n only_o be_v limit_v and_o our_o judgement_n leave_v free_a as_o before_o any_o such_o canon_n be_v make_v it_o be_v strange_a that_o the_o same_o man_n who_o enjoin_v three_o ceremony_n at_o the_o take_n of_o the_o covenant_n as_o to_o be_v bare_a head_v bear_v hand_v the_o right_a hand_n lift_v up_o shall_v so_o much_o scruple_n they_o in_o our_o public_a service_n but_o in_o a_o word_n it_o be_v plain_a scripture_n that_o every_o soul_n shall_v be_v subject_a to_o the_o high_a power_n not_o only_o for_o wrath_n but_o also_o for_o conscience_n sake_n now_o unless_o the_o nonconformist_n can_v bring_v as_o plain_a scripture_n against_o our_o ceremony_n to_o prove_v they_o moral_o evil_a they_o must_v incur_v the_o sin_n of_o schism_n and_o disobedience_n to_o those_o power_n which_o god_n have_v ordain_v and_o these_o be_v far_o great_a sin_n than_o the_o wear_n of_o a_o surplice_n though_o we_o have_v borrow_a it_o from_o the_o pope_n himself_o dub._n you_o mind_v i_o now_o of_o one_o of_o the_o great_a exception_n against_o the_o surplice_n etc._n etc._n because_o the_o papist_n use_v it_o in_o their_o superstitious_a worship_n therefore_o it_o be_v unlawful_a for_o we_o to_o wear_v it_o in_o we_o firm._n if_o this_o be_v a_o good_a reason_n it_o will_v follow_v whatsoever_o the_o papist_n do_v use_n or_o have_v abuse_v in_o their_o superstition_n it_o be_v unlawful_a for_o we_o who_o have_v abandon_v such_o trash_n and_o i_o rumpery_n to_o use_v but_o papist_n have_v abuse_v our_o church_n halice_n and_o other_o ornament_n in_o their_o false_a worship_n and_o service_n therefore_o we_o may_v not_o use_v they_o but_o down_o with_o they_o down_o with_o they_o even_o to_o the_o ground_n dub._n this_o indeed_o will_v be_v a_o very_a necessary_a consequent_a but_o a_o very_a costly_a one_o i_o fear_v the_o man_n that_o make_v this_o exception_n will_v not_o be_v very_o forward_o to_o build_v they_o up_o again_o if_o idolatry_n and_o superstition_n be_v a_o just_a cause_n to_o make_v we_o lay_v aside_o our_o surplice_n by_o the_o same_o reason_n we_o must_v pull_v down_o our_o church_n and_o upon_o the_o same_o account_n the_o primitive_a christian_n ought_v not_o to_o have_v eat_v meat_n offer_v to_o idol_n neither_o to_o have_v make_v use_n of_o the_o heathen_n temple_n to_o celebrate_v the_o worship_n and_o service_n of_o the_o true_a god_n firm._n you_o see_v then_o how_o frivolous_a the_o exception_n against_o the_o surplice_n be_v and_o so_o be_v all_o those_o that_o be_v offer_v against_o the_o ring_n in_o marriage_n bow_v at_o the_o name_n of_o jesus_n kneel_v at_o the_o sacrament_n the_o cross_n after_o baptism_n and_o therefore_o i_o shall_v very_o brief_o pass_v they_o over_o 1._o for_o the_o ring_n it_o be_v as_o ancient_a at_o least_o as_o turtullian_n who_o live_v about_o two_o hundred_o year_n after_o christ_n he_o make_v mention_n of_o it_o more_o than_o once_o and_o our_o church_n do_v use_v it_o as_o a_o ancient_a ceremony_n no_o way_n essential_a to_o matrimony_n 2._o bow_v at_o the_o name_n of_o jesus_n be_v likewise_o very_a ancient_n the_o reason_n of_o it_o be_v 1._o to_o show_v our_o readiness_n to_o yield_v obedience_n and_o subjection_n to_o he_o as_o our_o lord_n and_o king_n to_o who_o all_o power_n both_o in_o heaven_n and_o earth_n be_v give_v and_o to_o who_o every_o knee_n must_v bow_v phil._n 2.10_o the_o ancient_a christian_n rather_o bow_v at_o the_o name_n of_o jesus_n then_o at_o the_o name_n of_o christ_n in_o opposition_n to_o the_o unbelieve_a jew_n who_o most_o of_o all_o blaspheme_v that_o sweet_a and_o save_a name_n of_o jesus_n which_o therefore_o they_o do_v endeavour_v the_o more_o high_o to_o exalt_v 3._o to_o declare_v their_o certain_a belief_n of_o what_o the_o apostle_n foretell_v that_o at_o the_o name_n of_o jesus_n every_o knee_n shall_v bow_v of_o thing_n in_o heaven_n thing_n in_o earth_n and_o thing_n under_o the_o earth_n that_o all_o thing_n shall_v be_v subject_a unto_o he_o phil._n 2._o 3._o kneel_v at_o the_o sacrament_n our_o church_n conceive_v to_o be_v the_o most_o humble_a and_o reverend_a posture_n and_o therefore_o most_o suitable_a to_o so_o high_a and_o heavenly_a a_o mystery_n especial_o it_o be_v administer_v with_o a_o prayer_n yet_o we_o do_v not_o condemn_v the_o practice_n of_o other_o church_n where_o this_o holy_a sacrament_n be_v receive_v sit_v or_o stand_v neither_o shall_v they_o condemn_v we_o for_o kneel_v because_o christ_n disciple_n receive_v it_o in_o a_o table_n gesture_n to_o which_o we_o be_v no_o more_o bind_v then_o to_o the_o place_n or_o time_n in_o which_o they_o receive_v it_o a_o upper_a room_n and_o after_o supper_n as_o the_o learned_a dr._n sanderson_n have_v evident_o demonstrate_v 4._o the_o cross_n after_o baptism_n be_v also_o a_o very_a ancient_a ceremony_n which_o the_o christian_n of_o the_o first_o age_n use_v in_o a_o courageous_a and_o undaunted_a opposition_n against_o the_o heathen_n and_o jew_n who_o scoff_v and_o deride_v they_o for_o believe_v in_o and_o worship_v a_o crucify_a god_n for_o their_o saviour_n who_o can_v not_o save_v himself_o true_a it_o be_v in_o process_n of_o time_n the_o cross_n be_v abuse_v to_o gross_a superstition_n and_o therefore_o say_v some_o it_o ought_v to_o be_v lay_v aside_o as_o ezekias_o abollished_a the_o brazen_a serpent_n when_o the_o people_n make_v it_o a_o idol_n dub._n much_o more_o ought_v the_o cross_n to_o be_v take_v away_o be_v abuse_v to_o superstition_n because_o it_o be_v but_o a_o humane_a invention_n where_o as_o the_o brazen_a serpent_n be_v set_v up_o by_o god_n own_o direction_n and_o command_n firm._n very_o true_a but_o then_o let_v ezekias_n do_v it_o not_o the_o people_n on_o their_o own_o head_n without_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o king_n however_o the_o use_n of_o a_o innocent_a ceremony_n ought_v not_o to_o be_v take_v away_o because_o of_o '_o its_o abuse_n and_o here_o it_o ought_v to_o be_v consider_v whether_o it_o be_v better_a to_o use_v the_o cross_n to_o put_v we_o in_o mind_n of_o our_o duty_n not_o to_o be_v ashamed_a of_o christ_n crusify_v as_o also_o of_o the_o courage_n and_o boldness_n of_o the_o primitive_a christian_n who_o not_o withstand_v the_o scoff_v and_o reproach_n of_o infidel_n will_v make_v such_o open_a profession_n of_o their_o faith_n in_o christ_n crucify_a as_o to_o use_v the_o sign_n of_o the_o cross_n not_o only_o in_o baptism_n but_o also_o upon_o sundry_a other_o occasion_n or_o else_o whether_o it_o be_v better_o to_o forbear_v the_o use_n of_o it_o because_o it_o have_v be_v so_o much_o abuse_v to_o superstition_n let_v the_o suprem_fw-mi power_n judge_v which_o of_o these_o be_v fit_a to_o be_v do_v and_o determine_v according_o either_o for_o the_o negative_a or_o the_o affirmative_a and_o i_o believe_v every_o sober_a and_o peaceable_a christian_a will_v esteem_v it_o his_o duty_n to_o submit_v unto_o such_o a_o determination_n dub._n but_o see_v these_o and_o other_o ceremony_n have_v be_v and_o be_v a_o great_a scandal_n to_o
tender_a conscience_n and_o the_o occasion_n of_o many_o sh●rp_a contention_n among_o christian_n agree_v in_o the_o substantial_o of_o religion_n and_o see_v that_o conformist_n themselves_o confess_v they_o not_o to_o be_v in_o their_o own_o nature_n necessary_a but_o only_o expedient_a for_o order_n and_o decency_n be_v it_o not_o better_o they_o be_v lay_v aside_o then_o continue_v be_v they_o be_v the_o perpetual_a cause_n of_o discord_n and_o dissension_n among_o we_o firm._n and_o be_v order_n decency_n and_o uniformity_n without_o which_o there_o will_v be_v neither_o ●ove_n peace_n or_o unity_n su●h_v inconsiderable_a nothing_o that_o a_o few_o innocent_a ceremony_n must_v be_v utter_o abollish_v to_o gratify_v the_o dogmatize_v humour_n of_o those_o man_n who_o esteem_v thing_n in_o themselves_o indifferent_a to_o be_v sinful_a and_o unlawful_a which_o be_v s●●t_a superstition_n it_o be_v indeed_o much_o to_o be_v lament_v that_o we_o shall_v quarrel_v about_o mint_n and_o cummin_n to_o the_o prejudice_n of_o more_o weighty_a and_o material_a duty_n and_o the_o scandal_n of_o our_o religion_n but_o by_o reason_n of_o our_o innate_a and_o acquit_v corruption_n it_o be_v necessary_a that_o offence_n shall_v come_v yet_o woe_n be_v unto_o that_o man_n by_o who_o they_o come_v i_o know_v weakness_n and_o renderness_n of_o conscience_n be_v much_o pretend_v and_o we_o ought_v to_o take_v heed_n how_o we_o offend_v any_o of_o christ_n little_a one_o but_o how_o can_v these_o man_n be_v reckon_v in_o the_o number_n of_o weak_a or_o little_a one_o who_o seem_v to_o themselves_o so_o great_a so_o strong_a and_o able_a in_o the_o thing_n of_o religion_n and_o for_o their_o tenderness_n of_o conscience_n we_o appeal_v to_o their_o bloody_a civil_a war_n it_o be_v well_o know_v by_o who_o and_o how_o they_o be_v begin_v and_o carry●d_v on_o till_o at_o length_n they_o come_v up_o to_o the_o death_n of_o the_o king_n though_o i_o believe_v very_o much_o against_o the_o intention_n and_o design_n of_o the_o most_o grave_a and_o sober_a man_n of_o that_o party_n dub._n but_o real_o sir_n be_v it_o not_o more_o beseem_v christian_a prudence_n so_o far_o to_o condescend_v to_o our_o dissent_v brethren_n who_o agree_v with_o we_o in_o the_o doctrine_n of_o our_o church_n in_o take_v away_o at_o least_o some_o of_o those_o ceremony_n which_o be_v more_o liable_a to_o exception_n then_o to_o comply_v with_o the_o superstitious_a papist_n in_o the_o use_n of_o they_o firm._n i_o confess_v some_o moderate_a man_n have_v think_v so_o especial_o since_o we_o be_v frustrate_v of_o of_o one_o main_a end_n for_o which_o our_o first_o reformer_n retain_v they_o which_o be_v to_o draw_v over_o the_o papist_n into_o the_o communion_n of_o our_o church_n which_o they_o do_v adhere_v unto_o for_o the_o ten_o first_o year_n of_o queen_n elizabeth_n until_o they_o be_v interdict_v by_o the_o pope_n bull_n but_o see_v we_o be_v deprive_v of_o all_o hope_n of_o that_o much_o desire_a issue_n and_o that_o by_o the_o cunning_a of_o priest_n and_o jesuit_n stir_v up_o and_o animate_v the_o conformist_n and_o nonconformist_n against_o each_o other_o about_o these_o ceremony_n our_o difference_n among_o ourselves_o do_v daily_o increase_v and_o multiply_v some_o wise_a and_o peaceable_a man_n have_v desire_v that_o the_o use_n of_o certain_a of_o those_o ceremony_n may_v be_v forbear_v at_o least_o for_o a_o time_n which_o not_o withstand_v they_o be_v still_o continue_v these_o peaceable_a man_n abhor_v the_o great_a sin_n of_o separation_n &_o do_v continue_v their_o conformity_n to_o the_o rite_n of_o our_o church_n daily_o beg_v at_o the_o throne_n of_o grace_n that_o the_o god_n of_o truth_n and_o peace_n will_v for_o his_o mercy_n ●ake_v so_o assist_v those_o power_n which_o he_o have_v ordain_v that_o they_o may_v be_v instrumental_a for_o the_o establish_n of_o truth_n and_o peace_n among_o we_o dub._n i_o like_v well_o of_o the_o temper_n of_o these_o man_n and_o wish_v that_o their_o moderation_n be_v not_o only_o know_v unto_o but_o practise_v by_o all_o man_n for_o certain_o if_o the_o spirit_n of_o love_n peace_n and_o meekness_n do_v rule_n more_o in_o our_o peevish_a and_o froward_a heart_n we_o shall_v enjoy_v a_o great_a measure_n of_o peace_n love_n and_o christian_a charity_n than_o these_o angry_a time_n have_v hither_o to_o be_v happy_a with_o i_o return_v you_o my_o hearty_a thanks_o for_o that_o satisfaction_n which_o you_o have_v give_v i_o in_o those_o scruple_n which_o have_v much_o trouble_v i_o about_o the_o government_n liturgy_n and_o ceremony_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n there_o be_v yet_o one_o thing_n behind_o at_o which_o i_o have_v somewhat_o be_v scandallize_v it_o be_v this_o your_o church_n do_v receive_v person_n who_o be_v notorious_o profane_a in_o their_o life_n and_o gross_o ignorant_a in_o the_o principl_n of_o religion_n to_o the_o holy_a sacrament_n of_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n beside_o she_o tolerate_v at_o least_o minister_n that_o be_v scandalous_a in_o their_o conversation_n frequenter_n of_o alehouse_n not_o at_o all_o serious_a in_o religion_n show_v little_a sense_n of_o it_o in_o their_o discourse_n preach_v or_o practice_n man_n of_o little_a conscience_n and_o of_o as_o little_a learning_n firm._n this_o accusation_n be_v most_o false_o whether_o it_o spring_v from_o spite_n or_o malice_n or_o extreme_a ignorance_n i_o know_v not_o sure_o i_o be_o our_o church_n order_n that_o no_o su●h_a person_n be_v admit_v to_o the_o holy_a sacrament_n th●t_v no_o such_o minister_n be_v permit_v to_o officiate_v that_o they_o be_v to_o be_v suspend_v once_o and_o again_o and_o if_o they_o do_v no_o not_o reform_v they_o be_v to_o be_v deprive_v for_o the_o first_o you_o may_v see_v the_o rubric_n before_o the_o communion_n and_o the_o 26._o canon_n for_o the_o second_o see_v artic_a 26._o and_o canon_n the_o 74._o and_o 75._o and_o canon_n 10._o make_v 1640._o which_o be_v so_o clear_a against_o the_o admit_v of_o profane_a person_n to_o to_o the_o communion_n or_o tollerate_v of_o scandalous_a minister_n without_o due_a punishment_n that_o whosoever_o charge_v these_o abuse_n upon_o our_o church_n must_v be_v gross_o ignorant_a or_o very_a malicious_a dub._n yet_o we_o see_v that_o such_o profane_a person_n be_v admit_v to_o the_o sacrament_n as_o member_n of_o your_o church_n and_o such_o unworthy_a minister_n be_v allow_v to_o officiate_v firm._n such_o person_n be_v no_o member_n of_o out_o church_n but_o rather_o the_o synagoge_n of_o satan_n and_o that_o minister_n who_o do_v admit_v such_o person_n natorious_o profane_a to_o the_o holy_a sacrament_n be_v a_o great_a nonconformist_a to_o the_o order_n of_o the_o church_n than_o he_o that_o scruple_n at_o a_o surplice_n and_o those_o churchwarden_n who_o neglect_v to_o present_v they_o be_v guilty_a of_o perjury_n and_o aught_o to_o be_v debar_v themselves_o from_o the_o communion_n can._n 26._o dub._n it_o be_v evident_a that_o such_o minister_n be_v not_o punish_v either_o by_o admonition_n suspensition_n or_o deprivation_n firm._n this_o be_v not_o true_a in_o all_o place_n to_o my_o knowledge_n where_o such_o minister_n or_o people_n escape_v unpunished_a it_o be_v most_o by_o the_o fault_n of_o the_o churchwarden_n and_o sides-man_n in_o not_o present_v they_o for_o what_o judge_n either_o ecclesiastical_a or_o civil_a can_v punish_v offence_n that_o be_v not_o bring_v before_o he_o dub._n but_o many_o time_n offence_n and_o scandal_n have_v be_v present_v and_o the_o offender_n not_o punish_v yea_o your_o ecclesiastical_a judge_n be_v more_o severe_a against_o those_o who_o be_v nonconformist_n to_o the_o law_n o●_n the_o church_n ●hen_o against_o those_o that_o be_v nonconformist_n to_o the_o law_n of_o god_n as_o profane_v irreligious_a wretch_n firm._n no_o m●n_z c●n_o excuse_v the_o personal_a abuse_n that_o be_v commit_v in_o any_o court_n civil_a or_o ecclesiastical_a all_o court_n officer_n never_o yet_o be_v nor_o ever_o will_v be_v man_n of_o integrity_n ●nd_v of_o unbiased_a judgement_n no_o question_n that_o many_o abuse_n which_o be_v commit_v by_o the_o officer_n of_o ecclesiastical_a court_n may_v be_v prevent_v if_o the_o bishop_n will_v be_v sometime_o personal_o present_a in_o their_o respective_a consistory_n as_o be_v intimate_v they_o ought_v to_o be_v canon_n 11._o make_v 1640._o if_o we_o must_v separate_v from_o a_o church_n that_o enjoin_v no_o intolerable_a condition_n for_o communion_n with_o she_o because_o of_o some_o personal_a ●aul●s_n of_o those_o who_o be_v entrust_v with_o her_o government_n we_o must_v turn_v seeker_n for_o where_o shall_v we_o find_v a_o church_n who_o officer_n be_v always_o all_o of_o they_o impartial_o just_a and_o upright_o dub._n i_o confess_v there_o be_v no_o good_a reason_n we_o shall_v separate_v from_o a_o church_n