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christian_n catholic_n church_n visible_a 3,069 5 9.7377 5 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A45152 A plea for the non-conformists tending to justifie them against the clamorous charge of schisme. By a Dr. of Divinity. With two sheets on the same subject by another Hand and Judgement. Humfrey, John, 1621-1719. 1674 (1674) Wing H3703A; ESTC R217013 46,853 129

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church_n catholic_n visible_a do_v we_o break_v charity_n with_o our_o brethren_n do_v we_o revile_v they_o or_o reproach_v their_o person_n or_o society_n let_v they_o bear_v the_o blame_n who_o do_v it_o we_o plead_v not_o for_o they_o in_o the_o mean_a time_n let_v not_o all_o other_o non-con_n be_v call_v schismatic_n for_o their_o sake_n we_o know_v very_o many_o of_o the_o non_fw-la con._n have_v be_v uncharitable_o enough_o deal_v with_o by_o those_o three_o famous_a author_n of_o the_o friendly_a debate_n ecclesiastical_a polity_n and_o of_o knowledge_n of_o &_o communion_n with_o christ_n have_v they_o render_v revile_v for_o revile_v though_o the_o master_n of_o morality_n have_v so_o treat_v their_o brethren_n as_o if_o veracity_n comity_n and_o urbanity_n be_v not_o in_o the_o catalogue_n of_o their_o moral_a virtue_n when_o the_o author_n open_v himself_o a_o little_a plain_o and_o tell_v we_o what_o he_o mean_v by_o a_o schism_n in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n consider_v as_o a_o part_n of_o the_o church_n catholic_n visible_a we_o shall_v better_o understand_v he_o §_o 23._o but_o he_o say_v we_o sinful_o separate_v from_o the_o organical_a national_a church_n of_o england_n and_o indeed_o this_o he_o must_v mean_v or_o nothing_o by_o what_o he_o say_v before_o for_o it_o be_v not_o possible_a to_o separate_v sinful_o from_o a_o national_a church_n consider_v only_o as_o a_o large_a part_n of_o the_o church-catholick_n visibles_n while_o they_o keep_v in_o the_o profession_n of_o christ_n and_o his_o gospel_n and_o in_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o same_o act_n of_o worship_n with_o they_o and_o in_o the_o same_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n unless_o they_o fail_v in_o love_n refuse_v all_o kind_n of_o occasional_a communion_n with_o their_o brethren_n condemn_v they_o as_o no_o part_n of_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n the_o worship_v of_o god_n by_o different_a phrase_n and_o form_n of_o prayer_n in_o different_a habit_n of_o vestment_n by_o different_a rite_n and_o ceremony_n &_o c._n will_n not_o do_v it_o for_o these_o be_v thing_n which_o belong_v not_o to_o any_o national_a church_n as_o a_o part_n of_o the_o church_n catholic_n visible_a christ_n leave_v no_o liturgy_n to_o his_o catholic_n church_n nor_o any_o such_o rite_n and_o ceremony_n and_o habit_n nor_o be_v ever_o the_o catholic_n visible_a church_n uniform_a in_o they_o our_o brethren_n themselves_o confess_v these_o mutable_a thing_n wherein_o several_a part_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n differ_v each_o from_o other_o these_o thing_n proceed_v from_o the_o church_n consider_v as_o organical_a not_o as_o a_o part_n of_o the_o catholic_n visible_a church_n for_o then_o the_o major_a part_n of_o all_o particular_a christian_n must_v consent_v to_o the_o imposition_n of_o they_o §_o 24._o now_o true_o for_o this_o particular_a organical_a national_a church_n it_o be_v possible_a we_o may_v have_v separate_v from_o it_o for_o we_o never_o know_v there_o be_v any_o such_o creature_n and_o at_o last_o our_o author_n do_v confess_v that_o mr._n caudry_n have_v tell_v he_o that_o the_o presbyterian_o do_v general_o agree_v that_o the_o disciplinary_a part_n or_o form_n of_o government_n be_v not_o essential_a to_o a_o national_a church_n he_o shall_v therefore_o first_o have_v prove_v that_o there_o be_v such_o a_o thing_n under_o the_o gospel_n as_o a_o state_v national_a organical_a church_n and_o we_o shall_v then_o have_v try_v whether_o the_o same_o argument_n will_v not_o have_v serve_v the_o papist_n to_o have_v prove_v a_o catholic_n organical_a church_n and_o that_o something_o better_a than_o they_o serve_v our_o author_n because_o they_o have_v find_v out_o a_o single_a head_n for_o it_o which_o we_o find_v our_o author_n p._n 43._o at_o great_a loss_n to_o find_v for_o his_o particular_a national_a organical_a church_n §_o 95._o he_o know_v not_o whether_o he_o shall_v fix_v it_o upon_o the_o king_n for_o he_o be_v to_o be_v 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the_o head_n and_o that_o yet_o be_v better_a than_o 9000_o head_n as_o must_v be_v if_o the_o pastor_n of_o all_o parish_n be_v the_o head_n in_o short_a none_o of_o these_o can_v by_o a_o act_n of_o ecclesiastical_a jurisdiction_n influence_n the_o whole_a body_n and_o what_o kind_n of_o head_n be_v that_o the_o king_n indeed_o as_o political_a head_n of_o the_o church_n may_v influence_n the_o whole_a with_o his_o command_n relate_v to_o ecclesiastical_a affair_n but_o sure_o we_o have_v no_o arçh-bishop_n bishop_n or_o pastor_n can_v excommunicate_v from_o dan_n to_o beershaba_n our_o author_n not_o be_v able_a to_o fix_v his_o thought_n in_o this_o point_n at_o last_o tell_v we_o it_o be_v not_o material_a for_o it_o be_v a_o certain_a vanity_n to_o say_v 43._o 43._o because_o i_o can_v find_v the_o the_o head_n i_o will_v deny_v the_o body_n be_v it_o so_o can_v there_o then_o be_v a_o live_a organical_a body_n without_o a_o head_n it_o be_v not_o the_o body_n we_o be_v discourse_v of_o but_o a_o organical_a body_n we_o may_v know_v our_o mother_n as_o our_o author_n say_v though_o we_o do_v not_o know_v our_o father_n but_o we_o must_v know_v we_o have_v a_o father_n and_o that_o father_n be_v or_o be_v a_o visible_a creature_n or_o else_o he_o can_v not_o be_v know_v §_o 26._o well_o but_o what_o be_v this_o same_o national_a organical_a church_n of_o england_n he_o p._n 42._o give_v we_o this_o description_n of_o it_o it_o be_v a_o community_n consist_v of_o profess_a christian_n unite_v in_o the_o same_o doctrine_n government_n and_o worship_n according_a to_o the_o 39_o article_n and_o homily_n her_o liturgy_n and_o canon_n and_o law_n and_o divide_v into_o parochial_a assembly_n for_o the_o more_o convenient_a worship_n of_o god_n and_o p._n 45_o schism_n from_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v a_o sinful_a divide_v from_o or_o dissolve_v our_o union_n or_o communion_n with_o she_o in_o her_o governor_n worship_n member_n or_o assembly_n we_o can_v neither_o allow_v his_o descriptis_fw-la on_z of_o the_o national_a church_n of_o england_n nor_o yet_o of_o his_o description_n of_o schism_n or_o sinful_a separation_n from_o it_o and_o we_o will_v glad_o hear_v by_o what_o scripture_n or_o reason_n either_o of_o they_o can_v be_v make_v good_a §_o 27._o it_o will_v be_v no_o wonder_n if_o deny_v the_o thing_n of_o a_o national_a govern_v church_n we_o deny_v the_o description_n of_o it_o for_o non_fw-la eus_fw-la non_fw-la potest_fw-la definiri_fw-la now_o we_o do_v believe_v that_o under_o the_o gospel_n there_o never_o be_v nor_o can_v be_v a_o state_v national_a govern_v church_n unless_o what_o be_v indeed_o sometime_o though_o far_o from_o the_o sense_n we_o be_v now_o speak_v to_o and_o perhaps_o not_o so_o proper_o call_v a_o church_n according_a to_o the_o dialect_n of_o scripture_n make_v up_o of_o all_o the_o messenger_n of_o all_o the_o particular_a church_n in_o a_o nation_n in_o a_o assembly_n for_o deliberation_n advice_n and_o determination_n in_o some_o weighty_a emergent_a case_n to_o obviate_v which_o we_o put_v in_o the_o term_n state_v for_o this_o be_v only_o a_o occasional_a national_a church_n or_o synod_n which_o have_v but_o a_o temporary_a being_n pro_fw-la renatâ_fw-la and_o meet_v and_o act_n at_o the_o pleasure_n of_o the_o prince_n the_o supreme_a political_n head_n §_o 28._o when_o we_o speak_v of_o a_o church_n we_o understand_v church_n as_o a_o scriptural_a term_n in_o the_o religious_a usage_n of_o it_o applicable_a to_o no_o body_n of_o people_n but_o such_o a_o one_o as_o the_o scripture_n call_v so_o so_o that_o if_o there_o be_v any_o such_o body_n as_o may_v be_v call_v a_o national_a govern_v organical_a church_n we_o must_v either_o find_v it_o in_o the_o new_a testament_n or_o at_o least_o find_v some_o direction_n there_o for_o the_o constitution_n &_o order_n of_o it_o some_o
to_o worship_n god_n at_o westminster_n in_o the_o same_o act_n of_o worship_n be_v a_o schism_n from_o that_o part_n of_o this_o church_n which_o meet_v for_o that_o end_n in_o london_n §_o 42._o nor_o be_v he_o help_v at_o all_o by_o say_v our_o church_n be_v not_o of_o the_o same_o constitution_n 55._o doctrine_n of_o schism_n 55._o which_o he_o say_v be_v mr._n cawdry_n answer_v to_o dr._n owen_n let_v mr._n cawdry_n or_o who_o will_v say_v so_o dolus_fw-la versatur_fw-la in_o generatibus_fw-la what_o be_v the_o difference_n do_v christ_n constitute_v they_o we_o trust_v he_o have_v constitute_v we_o that_o be_v by_o the_o rule_v give_v in_o his_o word_n be_v they_o constitute_v by_o parliament_n that_o will_v be_v hard_a to_o prove_v as_o to_o the_o first_o constitution_n parish_n in_o england_n be_v first_o make_v by_o a_o popish_a archbishop_n the_o parliament_n afterward_o or_o custom_n rather_o may_v confirm_v they_o do_v it_o then_o make_v a_o schismatic_a to_o depart_v to_o a_o church_n not_o establish_v by_o humane_a law_n or_o custom_n how_o else_o be_v we_o of_o another_o constitution_n be_v not_o the_o same_o doctrine_n preach_v the_o same_o sacrament_n administer_v the_o same_o act_n of_o worship_n perform_v where_o be_v the_o difference_n in_o the_o modes_n rite_n and_o ceremony_n only_o and_o these_o all_o of_o humane_a institution_n this_o be_v that_o which_o the_o church_n of_o god_n never_o before_o call_v schism_n &_o which_o the_o apostle_n never_o think_v of_o do_v not_o we_o agree_v in_o the_o same_o government_n that_o concern_v we_o not_o yet_o while_o we_o be_v clear_v ourselves_o only_o from_o a_o church_n which_o the_o author_n must_v show_v we_o capable_a of_o any_o such_o government_n as_o christ_n have_v appoint_v intrinsical_a to_o his_o church_n in_o the_o mean_a time_n as_o to_o the_o national_a church_n of_o england_n we_o deny_v that_o we_o be_v guilty_a of_o any_o schism_n either_o in_o it_o or_o from_o it_o so_o that_o the_o 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perfect_o organical_a and_o furnish_v with_o all_o its_o affair_n and_o walk_v in_o all_o point_n of_o gospel_n order_n he_o add_v such_o particular_a church_n be_v in_o many_o parochial_a society_n in_o england_n and_o there_o be_v no_o doubt_n but_o such_o parochial_a church_n be_v true_a church_n from_o which_o causeless_a and_o unnecessary_a separation_n be_v sinful_a indeed_o he_o say_v how_o far_o other_o parochial_a church_n be_v true_a church_n avow_v so_o by_o presbyterian_o he_o be_v yet_o to_o learn_v and_o his_o answer_n be_v for_o any_o thing_n i_o see_v in_o his_o remark_n yet_o to_o teach_v he_o and_o i_o believe_v will_v so_o continue_v for_o his_o guess_n at_o what_o the_o author_n mean_v by_o perfection_n of_o order_n he_o i_o be_o sure_a will_v tell_v he_o he_o mean_v no_o more_o than_o a_o capacity_n to_o administer_v all_o the_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n proper_a to_o a_o particular_a church_n the_o word_n sacrament_n and_o censure_n of_o jundical_a admonition_n suspension_n and_o excommunication_n which_o they_o can_v do_v till_o they_o have_v officer_n i_o believe_v it_o must_v be_v a_o case_n of_o extraordinary_a necessity_n must_v justify_v a_o single_a minister_n in_o suspending_a or_o excommunicate_v but_o that_o those_o that_o help_v he_o must_v needs_o be_v person_n not_o ordain_v to_o the_o ministry_n i_o do_v not_o think_v he_o believe_v but_o that_o there_o may_v be_v more_o minister_n if_o the_o parochial_a society_n have_v more_o than_o one_o or_o other_o choose_v by_o that_o church_n and_o if_o any_o will_v contend_v that_o the_o body_n of_o the_o people_n must_v join_v with_o he_o in_o those_o act_n though_o he_o reserve_v his_o private_a judgement_n in_o the_o case_n yet_o he_o will_v not_o contend_v especial_o as_o to_o excommunication_n because_o he_o understand_v not_o to_o what_o purpose_n
of_o their_o mind_n and_o leave_v term_n of_o revile_v to_o the_o woman_n at_o billingsgate_n we_o will_v fair_o state_n the_o case_n and_o argue_v it_o as_o cool_o §_o 17._o the_o question_n be_v this_o whether_o the_o nonconforming_a minister_n and_o people_n meet_v ordinary_o together_o for_o the_o worship_n of_o god_n in_o assembly_n and_o place_n local_o distinct_a and_o separate_a from_o the_o meeting_n of_o the_o parochial_a congregation_n because_o the_o say_a minister_n may_v not_o preach_v there_o nor_o the_o say_a people_n enjoy_v there_o all_o the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n without_o the_o do_n of_o some_o thing_n which_o their_o conscience_n upon_o argument_n which_o they_o judge_v high_o probable_a do_v judge_v sinful_a be_v what_o the_o scripture_n call_v schism_n or_o be_v in_o any_o right_a reason_n a_o sinful_a separation_n these_o person_n in_o the_o mean_a time_n not_o condemn_v all_o parochial_a society_n as_o no_o true_a church_n nor_o in_o other_o thing_n behave_v themselves_o uncharitable_o towards_o they_o we_o must_v profess_v ourselves_o to_o believe_v the_o negative_a of_o this_o question_n in_o which_o be_v two_o fold_a together_o we_o affirm_v then_o 1._o this_o practice_n be_v not_o what_o the_o scripture_n call_v schism_n 2._o nor_o what_o right_a reason_n conclude_v from_o any_o scriptural_a principle_n can_v call_v a_o sinful_a separation_n we_o do_v grant_v there_o may_v be_v a_o sinful_a separation_n of_o christian_n from_o a_o church_n which_o the_o scripture_n do_v not_o call_v schism_n that_o make_v we_o distinguish_v these_o two_o thing_n nor_o shall_v we_o discourse_v the_o former_a 1._o because_o it_o be_v a_o plain_a dispute_n about_o a_o term._n 2._o because_o the_o eminent_o learned_a dr._n owen_n have_v make_v it_o good_a that_o a_o separation_n from_o a_o church_n though_o it_o may_v be_v sinful_a yet_o be_v not_o that_o which_o the_o scripture_n call_v schism_n and_o we_o observe_v that_o his_o very_a learned_a adversary_n upon_o the_o point_n grant_v he_o this_o and_o plead_v for_o no_o more_o than_o a_o analogical_a application_n of_o the_o term_n schism_n to_o express_v the_o sin_n of_o unnecessary_a separation_n from_o a_o church_n which_o we_o will_v not_o contend_v about_o §_o 18._o we_o say_v therefore_o let_v it_o be_v so_o or_o so_o it_o be_v of_o no_o great_a consequence_n all_o grant_v there_o may_v be_v a_o sinful_a separation_n from_o a_o church_n and_o if_o the_o separation_n be_v not_o sinful_a we_o be_v sure_o they_o nickname_n it_o that_o call_v it_o schism_n if_o it_o be_v sinful_a whether_o it_o shall_v be_v call_v schism_n or_o by_o some_o other_o name_n we_o think_v signify_v very_o little_a to_o the_o conscience_n of_o any_o intelligent_a christian_n §_o 19_o mr._n hales_n still_o keep_v the_o dialect_n of_o the_o school_n call_v this_o sinful_a separation_n schism_n and_o give_v we_o this_o description_n of_o it_o schism_n be_v a_o unnecessary_a separation_n from_o that_o part_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n of_o which_o we_o once_o be_v member_n like_o a_o wise_a man_n he_o speak_v multa_fw-la paucis_fw-la remember_v the_o canon_n about_o definition_n so_o then_o according_a to_o he_o to_o make_v a_o schism_n 1._o there_o must_v be_v a_o separation_n and_o that_o not_o from_o the_o whole_a visible_a church_n that_o be_v heresy_n or_o apostasy_n but_o from_o some_o part_n of_o it_o of_o which_o we_o be_v once_o member_n 2._o second_o it_o must_v be_v a_o unnecessary_a separation_n that_o be_v where_o the_o union_n may_v have_v be_v keep_v without_o sin_v against_o god_n we_o desire_v no_o further_a advantage_n than_o this_o description_n will_v give_v we_o let_v our_o case_n stand_v or_o fall_v as_o it_o will_v abide_v or_o not_o abide_v this_o test_n §_o 20._o hence_o we_o argue_v where_o there_o never_o be_v a_o union_n or_o there_o be_v no_o separation_n or_o if_o there_o be_v a_o separation_n it_o be_v necessary_a because_o the_o union_n can_v not_o be_v keep_v without_o sin_n there_o be_v no_o schism_n but_o in_o the_o case_n of_o the_o minister_n and_o people_n either_o there_o be_v no_o separation_n or_o there_o be_v no_o union_n which_o indeed_o suppose_v there_o can_v be_v no_o separation_n or_o not_o more_o than_o a_o necessary_a separation_n ergo_fw-la no_o schism_n no_o sinful_a separation_n §_o 21._o to_o make_v good_a which_o separation_n be_v a_o term_n of_o motion_n before_o we_o can_v strict_o speak_v to_o the_o part_n of_o the_o argument_n we_o must_v inquire_v for_o the_o term_n from_o which_o this_o motion_n or_o separation_n be_v pretend_v to_o be_v the_o author_n of_o the_o doctrine_n of_o schism_n p._n 40._o tell_v we_o this_o roundly_o it_o be_v a_o great_a and_o dangerous_a schism_n both_o against_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o particular_a church_n we_o will_v not_o quarrel_v with_o the_o zealous_a author_n for_o the_o propriety_n of_o that_o english_a a_o schism_n against_o the_o church_n because_o in_o the_o close_a of_o the_o same_o page_n though_o he_o do_v not_o at_o all_o mend_v the_o matter_n as_o to_o the_o poor_a nonconformist_a who_o he_o be_v wont_v to_o own_o as_o brethren_n yet_o he_o amend_v his_o english_a tell_v we_o if_o you_o consider_v the_o church_n of_o england_n as_o a_o particular_a organise_v church_n it_o be_v a_o schism_n from_o but_o as_o part_v of_o the_o universal_a visible_a church_n only_o as_o the_o n._n con._n use_v to_o term_v it_o be_v a_o schism_n in_o it_o and_o not_o only_o so_o but_o p._n 57_o it_o be_v a_o schism_n from_o particular_a parochial_a congregation_n for_o mr._n candry_n he_o say_v have_v observe_v there_o be_v and_o be_v another_o church-state_n in_o our_o particular_a congregation_n §_o 22._o here_o now_o be_v a_o double_a term_n from_o which_o this_o motion_n be_v pretend_v to_o be_v 1._o the_o church_n of_o england_n 2._o the_o parochial_a church_n in_o england_n to_o let_v our_o author_n know_v what_o we_o hold_v we_o do_v believe_v a_o catholic_n visible_a church_n which_o we_o take_v to_o be_v well_o describe_v in_o the_o 19_o of_o the_o 39_o article_n of_o our_o church_n the_o congregation_n or_o whole_a body_n of_o faithful_a man_n in_o the_o which_o the_o pure_a word_n of_o god_n be_v preach_v and_o the_o sacrament_n be_v due_o administer_v according_a to_o christ_n ordinance_n in_o all_o those_o thing_n that_o be_v of_o necessity_n requisite_a to_o the_o same_o of_o this_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v a_o part_n doubtless_o and_o from_o the_o church_n of_o england_n in_o this_o sense_n we_o do_v not_o know_v that_o any_o have_v separate_v but_o such_o as_o have_v renounce_v christ_n and_o the_o gospel_n or_o the_o word_n and_o ordinance_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n which_o will_v be_v plain_a and_o desperate_a apostasy_n with_o which_o we_o hope_v our_o brethren_n will_v be_v more_o modest_a than_o to_o charge_v we_o from_o this_o our_o plea_n be_v we_o make_v no_o separation_n and_o therefore_o can_v be_v charge_v with_o a_o sinful_a separation_n but_o say_v our_o author_n you_o make_v a_o sinful_a separation_n in_o it_o we_o be_v not_o trouble_v at_o word_n that_o signify_v nothing_o what_o be_v the_o meaning_n of_o this_o do_v we_o not_o own_o christ_n his_o gospel_n the_o same_o point_n of_o faith_n the_o same_o act_n of_o worship_n where_o be_v the_o separation_n then_o can_v all_o meet_v in_o the_o same_o place_n it_o may_v be_v we_o do_v not_o pray_v by_o the_o same_o form_n nor_o wear_v the_o same_o habit_n nor_o use_v some_o of_o those_o rite_n some_o other_o of_o our_o brethren_n use_v do_v our_o brethren_n then_o always_o when_o they_o pray_v use_v the_o same_o form_n of_o word_n do_v not_o they_o take_v a_o liberty_n in_o the_o pulpit_n why_o may_v not_o we_o do_v other_o part_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n use_v the_o same_o form_n why_o else_o be_v not_o they_o schismatic_n for_o as_o yet_o we_o be_v only_o consider_v the_o national_a church_n of_o england_n as_o a_o part_n of_o the_o church_n catholic_n visible_a be_v there_o any_o form_n any_o habit_n any_o rite_n or_o ceremony_n command_v by_o christ_n and_o omit_v by_o we_o if_o there_o be_v not_o where_o be_v the_o schism_n it_o seem_v the_o term_n schismatic_a be_v their_o privilege_n to_o use_v that_o can_v first_o get_v it_o out_o of_o their_o mouth_n if_o we_o divide_v in_o no_o command_n of_o christ_n why_o may_v not_o the_o non-con_n call_v their_o brethren_n schismatic_n as_o well_o as_o they_o call_v their_o brethren_n do_v a_o humane_a law_n create_v a_o difference_n let_v it_o be_v query_v whether_o that_o can_v give_v a_o rule_n to_o schism_n or_o no._n what_o be_v the_o business_n then_o how_o do_v we_o then_o make_v a_o schism_n in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n consider_v as_o a_o part_n of_o the_o