Selected quad for the lemma: christian_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
christian_n	catholic_n	church_n	unity_n	2,090	5	9.9512	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A29210	Bishop Bramhall's vindication of himself and the episcopal clergy, from the Presbyterian charge of popery, as it is managed by Mr. Baxter in his treatise of the Grotian religion together with a preface shewing what grounds there are of fears and jealousies of popery.	Bramhall, John, 1594-1663.; Parker, Samuel, 1640-1688.	1672 (1672)	Wing B4237; ESTC R20644	100,420	266

to so great a proportion as the Britannick Churches alone And if one secluded out of them all those who want an ordinary succession without their own faults out of invincible ignorance or necessity and all those who desire to have an ordinary succession either explicitely or implicitely they will be reduced to a little slock indeed But let him set his heart at rest I will remove this scruple out of his mind that he may sleep securely upon both ears Episcopal Divines do not denie those Churches to be true Churches wherein salvation may be had We advise them as it is our duty to be circumspect for themselves and not to put it to more question whether they have Ordination or not or deserve the general practice of the universal Church for nothing when they may clear it if they please Their case is not the same with those who labour under invincible necessity What mine own sense is of it I have declared many years since to the World in print and in the same way received thanks and a publick acknowledgment of my moderation from a French Divine And yet more particularly in my Reply to the Bishop of Chalcedon Pref. p. 4. and cap. 1. p. 71. Episcopal Divines will readily subscribe to the determination of the learned Bishop of Winchester in his Answer to the second Epistle of Molineus Nevertheless if our form of Episcopacie be of Divine Right it doth not follow from thence that there is no salvation without it or that a Church cannot consist without it He is blind who does not see Churches consisting without it he is hard hearted who denieth them salvation We are none of those hard-hearted persons we put agreat difference between these things There may be something absent in the exteriour Regiment which is of Divine Right and yet salvation be to be had This mistake proceedeth from not distinguishing between the true nature and essence of a Church which we do readily grant them and the integrity or perfection of a Church which we cannot grant them without swerving from the judgment of the Catholick Church The other part of his assumption is no truer than the former We do acknowledge the Church of Rome to be Metaphysically a true Church as a Thief is a true Man consisting of soul and body so did Bishop Morton Bishop Hall Bishop Davenant old Episcopal Divines so did Mr. Primrose and other Presbyterian Divines so doth he himself in this very Treatise What a weakness is it to accuse Episcopal Divines of that which he himself maintaineth But we all denie that the Church of Rome is morally a true Church because it is corrupted and erroneous we make it to be a living Body but sick and full of ulcers So we neither destroy the body out of hatred to the ulcers nor yet cherish the ulcers out of a doting affection to the body And therefore he had no reason in the world to suspect Episcopal Divines of a plot or design to introduce Popery into England which they look upon as the very Gangrene of the Church He pleadeth a reason why he doth not name those Episcopal Divines who had this design for fear of doing them hurt Sect. 70. As if it were not less hurtful to discover the nocent if he knew any such than to subject the innocent both to suspition and censure by his general descriptions I cannot excuse his first intimation of such a design because he had no ground at all for it but I can easily excuse his silence now upon another reason because I am confident there neither are nor ever were any such designers among the Episcopal Party Whereas he ought to prove his intention that there was such a design in the place thereof he gives us some symptomes or signs whereby to know the designers This is one great fault in his Discourse But the worst is they are all accidental notes which may either hit or miss there is not one essential mark among them His first mark is They are those that actually were the Agents in the English illegal Innovations which kindled all our troubles in this Land and were conformable to the Grotian design Those last words and were conformable to the Grotian design were well added though they be a shameful begging of the question and signifie the same thing by it self A strange kind of proof for without these words all the World will take him and his Party to be the illegal Innovators and no body but them The Episcopal Divines hold their old Canons their old Articles their old Liturgy their old Ordinal still without any change They took the Protestation against Innovations without any difficulty and are ready to take it over and over again Their fault was that they could not swallow down New Covenants to innovate His Party have changed Canons Articles Liturgy all things and yet have the confidence cry Innovators first His second mark is They bend the course of their Writings to make the Roman Church honourable and to vindicate them from Antichristianism and to make the reformed Churches odious This is a poor note indeed as if men were obliged out of hatred to the Church of Rome to deny it that honour which is justly due unto it or out of affection to the Protestant Churches to justifie their defects What reward did ever any English Protestant get from Rome for doing them this honour I know no man who honours the Church of Rome more than himself He calls Cassander Thaulerus Ferus Blessed souls with Christ He esteems the French Nation to be not only an erroneous but an honourable part of the Church of Christ p. 10. Episcopal Divines have learned to distinguish between that great Antichrist and lesser Antichrists between the Court of Rome and the Church of Rome which he confounds I dare not swear that the Pope is that great Antichrist but I dare swear that I never had any design to bring Popery into England I hope I never shall have and that all genuine Episcopal Divines may take the same Oath His third note of distinction whereby to know an English Grotian is this They labour to prove the Church of Rome a true Church because of their succession and the Reformed Churches to be none for want of that succession Sect. 71. This note is already answered Elsewhere he presseth this point further thus that he would gladly know what Church hath power to make a new Canon the observation whereof shall be essential to a Church or Pastor I answer that he doth doubly mistake the question which is not whether the Catholick Church can make new Essentials but whether it can declare old Essentials Not whether the Canons of the Universal Church of this Age have divine Authority but whether they do oblige Christians in conscience and whether it be not timerarious presumption for a particular person or Church to slight the Belief or Practice of the Universal Church of all succeeding Ages His fourth note

body as this It is no wonder if Grotius suffer wrong by him when my words are at the best so grosly mistaken who live to interpret my self First I give no leave to the Pope and Church of Rome to hold to themselves their last 400. years determinations But if they will hold them I have no power to help it or hinder it My words are these If you could be contented to wave your last 400. years determinations or if you liked them for your selves yet not to obtrude them upon other Churches As if one should say If Ieroboam will forbear to commit Idolatry himself or if he will not yet if he will forbear to compell others to commit Idolatry I may come to live in Israel no moderate man will say that he giveth leave to Ieroboam to commit Idolatry Secondly he pretends most untruly that I make these to be the terms or conditions of a peace which I mention only as preparatives My words are not then we may unite and cement our selves together but then much good might be expected from free Councils and conferences of moderate persons He himself saith as much as I say Thirdly if they do not obtrude their last 400. years determinations upon other Churches then they wave their ligislative power and take away from their Canons the nature of Laws then they make them no longer points of Faith but probable opinions It was not the erroneous opinions of the Church of Rome but the obtruding them by Laws upon other Churches which warranted a separation He who will have no communion with a Church which hath different or erroneous opinions in it so long as they are not obtruded must provide a ladder to climb up to Heaven by himself And this is that which I said expresly in that very place cited by him We might yet live in hope to see an union if not in all opinions yet in Charity and all necessary points of saving truth Let the Church of Rome do that which I require that is the Apostolical Discipline and Apostolical Creed without addition and it shall become an Apostolical and Catholick Church and have true Faith His fourth Exception is this That the Pope should hold his Patriarchal power is a meer innovation and humane institution as is his Primacy of order and such priviledges The Council of Chalcedon avers it And therefore it is no necessary thing to be conceded for the Churches peace That the Patriarchal dignity is an humane institution all men who understand themselves do acknowledge That it is a meer innovation all men who understand themselves do deny How should that be a meer innovation which was not first constituted but confirmed as an ancient Ecclesiastical custom in the first general Council of Nice and approved by all the general succeeding Councils of the Church and particularly by the Council of Chalcedon which he mentioneth which equalled the Patriarch of Constantinople to the Patriarch of Rome This form of Government is allowed by the Canons of the Apostles as I have shewed elsewhere This Patriarchal Government Calvin himself did not only allow but assert it to be such a Form as God hath prescribed in his Word Cal. Iust. l. 4. c. 4. S. 4. What wonder is it if they lose ground daily to the Romanists who have the confidence to affirm that Patriarchal power is an innovation and cite the great Council of Chalcedon for it He proceedeth to his fifth exception Multitudes that live in the western Nations of the World will still dissent both from the Popes Patriarchal power and more from his way of exercising it And so will be forced to fall under the reproach of Schismaticks by these t●rms and that for obeying the Laws of Christ. If the Pope as Patriarch of the West should impose on us only and not on the East the Doctrines and worship and Ceremonies which he now imposeth on the Papists except the excepted before doth any man of reason think that the Reformed Churches would ever yield to them or ought to do it We will unite on Christs terms and that will be a more sure and general Union and not on such humane devises as these Let those that made the Pope our Patriarch maintain his power for Christ did not Still weaker and weaker Multitudes that live in the Western parts of the World will not only dislike the Popes Patriarchal power but his Presbyterian Discipline and his holy orders the Creed the Lords Prayer the Sacraments c. must a man therefore quit his just right because some dislike it Their dislike is but scandal taken but the quitting of that which is right for their satisfaction should be scandal given Whether is the worse By the way I desire him to consider two things First how they are forced to fall under the reproach of Schismaticks If they be forced any way it is by their own wilful humours or erroneous conscience Other force here is none If there be any force it is they which force themselves Secondly I would have him to consider whether is the worse and more dangerous condition for Christians to fall under the reproach of Schismaticks which hath no sin in it but is a means many times to reduce men into the fold of the Catholick Church or for Christians to fall into Schisme it self Whosoever shall oppose the just power of a Lawful Patriarch lawfully proceeding is a material Schismatick at least and if his errour be vincible such as he might conquer and come unto the knowledge of the truth if he did his endeavour he is a formal Schismatick His reasons of their falling under the reproach of Schismaticks for obeying the Laws of Christ I confess I do not understand Doth he think that Patriachal power is contrary to the Laws of Christ and that all the Primitive Churches and Councils and Christians did transgress the Laws of Christ in this particular Surely he cannot think it Or is it his Zeal to admit nothing in the Church grounded upon prudence and experience and the Law of nature but only that which in commanded by Christ in Holy Scripture If that be it I refer him to Doctor Sanderson in his Preface before his 20. Sermons to whom he professeth very great reverence I had rather suspect that I understand him not than Imagine him to be guilty of such an absurd conclusion To his question if the Pope as Patriarch of the West should impose upon us which he imposeth upon the Papists should the reformed Churches yield to them I answer God forbid but his whole discourse is grounded upon a Cluster of mistakes First the Pope hath no right to the Patriarchate of all the West Particularly he is not our Patriarch Other Churches in the West might find out Primates or Patriarchs of their own as well as we if they sought diligently for them Secondly a single Patriarch hath not legislative power to impose Laws in his own Partriarchate nor power to innovate any thing

directions All that I do remember or meet with I shall produce The first place is in the Frontispiece of his Book Neither is that his own judgement but the judgement of King Iames related by Mr. Casaubon in his Epistle to Cardinal Peron in these words The King judgeth that the number of things absolutely necessary to salvation is not great Wherefore his Majesty thinks there is no more compendious way to Peace than to distinguish diligently things necessary from things not necessary and to endeavour to procure an agreement about necessary things and that place may be given to Christian liberty in things not necessary The King calleth those things simply necessary which either the Word of God commmandeth expresly to be beloved or done or which the ancient Church did draw out of the Word of God by necessary consequence If this distinction were used to decide the present Controversies and divine right were ingeniously distinguished from positive or Ecclesiastical right it seemeth not that the contention would be long or sharp between pious and moderate men about things absolutely necessary For they are both f●● as we said even now and are for the most part approved by all who desire to be called Christians And his most renowned Majesty thinketh this distinction to be of so great moment to diminish the Controversies which trouble the Church so much at this day that he judgeth it the duty of all who are studious of Peace to explain it diligently and teach it and urge it This is an excellent way indeed but it is a general way not a particular way It was King Iames his way not Mr. Chillingworths What King Iames pointed at in general I pursue in particular But that prudent Prince was far enough from dreaming that there could be no reconciliation of Christendom except all humane right were destroyed or taken away This is Mr. Baxters own unbeaten way I find a second passage to this purpose in Mr. Chillingworths answer to the Preface nu 23. Notwithstanding all your errours we do not renounce your communion totally and absolutely but only leave communicating with you in the practice and profession of your errours The trial whereof will be to propose some Form of Worshipping God taken wholly out of Scripture And herein if we refuse to join with you then and not till then may you justly say we have utterly and absolutely abandoned your communion This might serve for a coverfew to hide the flame of our contentions from breaking out whilst we are at out devotions But it hath nothing of reconciliation in it and hath as little probability of a pacification We desire not half so much as this of them to change their whole Liturgy but only to leave out some of their own latter additions which never were in any of the Primitive Liturgies By being taken wholly out of the Scripture either it is intended that it shall be all in the words and phrase of Scripture That will weigh little I have never observed any thing more repugnant to the true sense of Scripture than some things which have been expressed altogether in the phrase of Scripture Or it is intended that the matter of the Liturgy shall be taken wholly out of the Scripture But this hath so little of an expedient in it that it will leave the Controversie where it is Both Parties do already contend that their respective Forms are taken out of the Scriptures He hath another passage much to the same purpose in his answer to the third Chapter part 1. n. 11. If you would at this time propose a Form of Liturgy which both sides hold Lawful and then they Protestants would not join with you in this Liturgy you might have some colour to say that they renounced your communion absolutely First remedy regardeth only a communion in Publick Worship without any respect to an union in Faith and Discipline Secondly even in the point of Publick Worship it leaves the difference where it was what is a Lawful Form Those things which the Romanists hold to be necessary the Protestants shun as superstitious excesses And that Form which the Protestants would allow the Romanists cry out on as defective in necessary dutys and particularly wanting five of their Sacraments Nay certainly to call the whole frame of the Liturgy into dispute offers too large a field for contention And is nothing so likely a way of Peace as either for us to accept of their Form abating some such parts of it as are confessed to have been added since the Primitive times and are acknowledged not to be simply necessary but such as charitable Christians ought to give up and Sacrifice to an Universal Peace and would do it readily enough if it were not for mutual animosities of both Parties and the particular Interests of some persons Or if they should say to us as Father Paul Harvis a Romanist violent enough hath often said to me that if we had retained the Liturgy used in Edward the sixths time he would not have forborn to come to our communion To procure peace there must be condescension on both sides I find a third place part 1. cap. 4. n. ●9 To reduce Christians to unity of Communion there are but two ways that may be conceived probable The one by taking away diversity of opinions touching matters of Religion The other by shewing that the diversity of opinions which is among the several Sects of Christians ought to be no hinderance to their unity in communion The former of these is not to be hoped for without a Miracle Then what remains but that Christians be taught that their agreement in the high points of Faith and obedience ought to be more effectual to win them in one communion than their difference in things of less moment to divide them I must crave leave to dissent from Mr. Chillingworth in his former conclusion That diversity of opinions among Christians touching matters of Religion cannot be taken away without a Miracle A great many of those Controversies which raised the highest animosities among Christians at the first Reformation are laid aside already by moderate and judicious persons of both Partys without any Miracle and are only kept on foot by some blunderers who follow the old Mode when the Fashion is grown out of date either out of prejudice or pride or want of judgement or altogether And as many Controversies of the greatest magnitude are already as good as reconciled So more may be There is no opposition to be made against evident truth I hope Mr. Baxter will be of my mind who confesseth that He is grown to a great deal of confidence that most of our contentions about Arminian Points are more about Words than Matter And doubteth whether there be any difference at all in the point of Free-will praef sect 5. And affirmeth that the difference between Protestants and many Papists about certainty of Salvation except the point of perseverance is next to none And