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christian_n catholic_n church_n society_n 1,852 5 9.5659 5 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A15082 A replie to Iesuit Fishers answere to certain questions propou[n]ded by his most gratious Matie: King Iames By Francis White D: of DivĀ· deane of Carlile, chaplaine to his Matie. Hereunto is annexed, a conference of the right: R:B: of St Dauids wth the same Iesuit* White, Francis, 1564?-1638.; Laud, William, 1573-1645.; Baylie, Richard, b. 1585 or 6, attributed name.; Cockson, Thomas, engraver.; Fisher, John, 1569-1641. 1624 (1624) STC 25382; ESTC S122241 841,497 706

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give_v the_o sick_a only_o the_o bread_n second_o if_o paulinus_n of_o who_o erasmus_n ludum_fw-la say_v it_o be_v the_o same_o craftsman_n which_o have_v corrupt_v so_o many_o thing_n in_o the_o write_n of_o s._n hierome_n and_o s._n augustine_n report_v true_o touch_v s._n ambrose_n this_o prove_v not_o that_o communion_n in_o one_o kind_n be_v in_o ordinary_a ufe_n but_o that_o s._n ambrose_n be_v speechless_a and_o without_o understanding_n and_o decease_a instant_o after_o the_o bread_n be_v put_v into_o his_o mouth_n spiritum_fw-la and_o consequent_o be_v prevent_v by_o death_n receive_v by_o reason_n of_o this_o accident_n one_o material_a part_n of_o the_o sacrament_n only_o jesuit_fw-la second_o it_o be_v a_o ancient_a custom_n in_o the_o church_n to_o 〈◊〉_d give_v the_o sacrament_n unto_o lay_n man_n especial_o unto_o eremites_n to_o be_v carry_v in_o most_o pure_a linen_n corporal_n home_n to_o their_o house_n to_o be_v take_v in_o the_o morning_n before_o all_o other_o 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jesuit_fw-la four_o the_o manichee_n live_v in_o rome_n and_o other_o place_n quadrag_v shroud_a themselves_o among_o catholic_n go_v to_o their_o church_n receive_v the_o sacrament_n public_o with_o they_o under_o the_o sole_a form_n of_o bread_n and_o yet_o they_o be_v not_o note_v nor_o there_o discern_v from_o catholic_n a_o manifest_a sign_n that_o communion_n under_o one_o kind_n be_v public_o in_o the_o church_n permit_v at_o the_o least_o upon_o some_o just_a cause_n that_o may_v be_v pretend_v for_o how_o can_v the_o manichee_n still_o refuse_v the_o cup_n have_v be_v hide_v among_o these_o ancient_a christian_n if_o they_o have_v be_v persuade_v as_o now_o protestant_n that_o receive_v under_o one_o kind_n only_o be_v a_o sacrilege_n if_o one_o in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n shall_v refuse_v the_o cup_n but_o once_o in_o a_o public_a communion_n in_o the_o church_n will_v he_o not_o be_v incontinent_o note_v answer_n the_o holy_a eucharist_n in_o the_o day_n of_o pope_n leo_n the_o first_o be_v administer_v in_o both_o kind_n and_o romist_n can_v never_o as_o yet_o produce_v any_o one_o sufficient_a testimony_n or_o example_n that_o so_o much_o as_o any_o one_o congregation_n of_o christian_n in_o ancient_a time_n receive_v in_o the_o open_a church_n under_o one_o kind_n and_o although_o the_o place_n object_v out_o of_o leo_n 〈◊〉_d do_v in_o special_a concern_v the_o manichee_n yet_o it_o show_v plain_o that_o the_o present_a doctrine_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v not_o consonant_a to_o the_o ancient_a practice_n of_o the_o same_o church_n nevertheless_o our_o perverse_a adversary_n argue_v against_o we_o out_o of_o this_o place_n of_o leo_fw-la say_v that_o if_o the_o communion_n have_v not_o sometime_o be_v administer_v under_o one_o kind_n the_o manichee_n practice_v in_o refuse_v the_o cup_n can_v not_o have_v pass_v unmarked_a but_o must_v necessary_o have_v be_v observe_v i_o answer_v first_o the_o manichee_n be_v espy_v and_o discover_v otherwise_o how_o can_v the_o pope_n reprove_v their_o practice_n second_o vasques_n specie_fw-la the_o jesuit_n say_v that_o these_o heretic_n receive_v the_o cup_n into_o their_o hand_n but_o drink_v no_o wine_n and_o among_o a_o multitude_n of_o communicant_n some_o few_o may_v hold_v the_o cup_n to_o their_o mouth_n and_o make_v show_v of_o drink_v and_o yet_o receive_v no_o wine_n jesuit_fw-la the_o last_o argument_n be_v practice_v of_o the_o apostle_n that_o be_v of_o the_o first_o christian_n under_o they_o of_o who_o we_o read_v in_o the_o act_n of_o the_o apostle_n erant_fw-la perseverantes_fw-la in_o doctrina_fw-la 42._o apostolorum_fw-la &_o communicatione_n fractionis_fw-la panis_n &_o orationibus_fw-la speak_v of_o sucred_a eucharistical_a bread_n the_o take_v whereof_o be_v join_v with_o prayer_n which_o unto_o the_o new_o baptise_a be_v straight_o give_v after_o baptism_n and_o yet_o there_o be_v no_o mention_n of_o wine_n so_o that_o protestant_n if_o 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that_o upon_o our_o saviour_n break_v and_o give_v they_o bread_n they_o know_v he_o and_o be_v straight_o vanish_v out_o of_o their_o sight_n so_o that_o here_o also_o if_o protestant_n will_v have_v wine_n give_v to_o these_o disciple_n they_o must_v by_o the_o superabundance_n thereof_o in_o their_o exposition_n supply_v 〈◊〉_d want_v thereof_o in_o scripture_n yea_o the_o scripture_n in_o this_o place_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d capable_a of_o that_o exposition_n the_o apostle_n acknowledge_v of_o christ_n in_o the_o very_a fraction_n and_o give_v of_o bread_n and_o our_o 〈◊〉_d depart_v in_o the_o same_o moment_n leave_v not-time_n for_o he_o to_o give_v they_o wine_n after_o the_o bread_n answer_n your_o last_o argument_n be_v poor_a and_o drowsy_a and_o perhaps_o you_o imagine_v that_o at_o this_o your_o feast_n if_o yet_o we_o may_v be_v say_v to_o drink_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d sine_fw-la calais_n we_o have_v drink_v well_o before_o and_o therefore_o in_o the_o
he_o deliver_v two_o thing_n first_o that_o christian_n honour_n martyr_n with_o the_o honour_n of_o love_n and_o society_n as_o holy_a man_n of_o god_n be_v honour_v in_o this_o life_n homines_fw-la but_o saint_n in_o this_o life_n be_v not_o worship_v with_o vow_n fasting_n and_o religious_a prayer_n second_o he_o distinguish_v between_o the_o solemnity_n or_o festival_n of_o martyr_n and_o the_o person_n of_o martyr_n upon_o the_o festival_n martyrum_fw-la of_o martyr_n religious_a service_n be_v perform_v to_o god_n the_o lord_n of_o martyr_n but_o not_o to_o the_o person_n of_o martyr_n s._n augustine_n affirm_v not_o this_o latter_a the_o total_a honour_n which_o the_o sacred_a scripture_n and_o after_o it_o s._n augustine_n require_v to_o be_v yield_v to_o holy_a saint_n martyr_n and_o angel_n respective_o may_v be_v reduce_v to_o four_o head_n first_o the_o honour_n of_o love_n pugnantes_fw-la and_o desire_v of_o society_n second_o recognition_n and_o praise_n of_o their_o virtue_n and_o excellency_n three_o imitation_n of_o their_o virtue_n and_o godly_a example_n four_o reverend_a comportment_n to_o angel_n when_o they_o appear_v and_o be_v present_a as_o god_n messenger_n but_o none_o of_o these_o action_n be_v the_o formal_a or_o elicitive_a action_n of_o religion_n therefore_o the_o honour_n of_o saint_n and_o angel_n according_a to_o propriety_n of_o speech_n be_v 〈◊〉_d religious_a worship_n now_o than_o i_o subsume_v no_o religious_a worship_n proper_o take_v be_v due_a to_o saint_n by_o the_o confession_n of_o learned_a papist_n deum_fw-la invocation_n of_o saint_n be_v religious_a worship_n proper_o take_v rom._n 10.14_o ergo_fw-la invocation_n be_v not_o due_a to_o saint_n jesuit_fw-la now_o that_o man_n may_v worship_v angel_n and_o saint_n in_o this_o sort_n with_o true_a affection_n of_o spirit_n even_o to_o the_o prostration_n of_o their_o body_n may_v be_v prove_v out_o of_o holy_a scripture_n suppose_v what_o be_v already_o show_v that_o they_o see_v our_o action_n for_o if_o saint_n see_v our_o action_n we_o may_v as_o lawful_o and_o as_o profitable_o bow_v kneel_v and_o prostrate_v our_o body_n unto_o they_o as_o unto_o saint_n live_v on_o earth_n but_o it_o be_v lawful_a to_o honour_v live_v saint_n with_o bow_v and_o kneeling_z and_o prostration_n of_o body_n as_o may_v be_v prove_v by_o many_o example_n abdias_n a_o holy_a man_n adore_v helias_n prostrate_v on_o the_o ground_n not_o for_o 18._o any_o humane_a excellency_n or_o respect_n but_o because_o he_o be_v a_o prophet_n and_o a_o singular_a saint_n of_o god_n the_o child_n of_o the_o 2._o prophet_n see_v sign_n of_o supernatural_a and_o divine_a power_n in_o elizeus_fw-la come_v unto_o he_o adore_v he_o prostrate_a on_o the_o ground_n the_o shunamite_n woman_n her_o son_n be_v dead_a go_v present_o unto_o elize_n we_o fall_v down_o at_o his_o foot_n sue_v 4._o not_o so_o much_o with_o word_n as_o with_o tear_n and_o mournful_a complaint_n for_o the_o resuscitation_n of_o her_o dead_a son_n we_o read_v also_o that_o holy_a man_n have_v adore_v with_o kneel_v and_o prostration_n of_o their_o body_n holy_a angel_n appear_v unto_o they_o as_o abraham_n lot_n balaam_n josua_n so_o that_o this_o adoration_n of_o saint_n and_o angel_n with_o more_o than_o humane_a and_o natural_a 5._o respect_n and_o with_o acknowledgement_n of_o more_o than_o humane_a and_o natural_a perfection_n in_o they_o be_v clear_o deduceable_a from_o holy_a scripture_n answer_n first_o your_o supposal_n that_o saint_n decease_v see_v and_o behold_v all_o our_o particular_a and_o singular_a action_n be_v in_o my_o praecedent_n answer_v refute_v second_o if_o they_o do_v understand_v our_o action_n it_o be_v not_o nenecessarie_a for_o we_o to_o worship_v they_o after_o your_o manner_n because_o neither_o god_n himself_o nor_o the_o bless_a saint_n require_v any_o such_o devotion_n sunt_fw-la three_o your_o example_n of_o abdias_n and_o the_o shunamite_n prostrate_v themselves_o to_o elyas_n and_o elizeus_fw-la be_v not_o ad_fw-la idem_fw-la for_o these_o prophet_n be_v visible_o and_o sensible_o present_a to_o those_o person_n and_o on_o the_o contrary_a the_o bless_a saint_n be_v absent_a from_o those_o which_o worship_v they_o upon_o earth_n child_n kneel_v to_o their_o parent_n and_o speak_v to_o they_o when_o they_o be_v present_a but_o when_o they_o be_v absent_a such_o action_n cease_v four_o your_o example_n of_o abraham_n lot_n balaam_n and_o josua_n conclude_v not_o your_o angell-worship_n for_o it_o be_v the_o common_a tenet_n of_o the_o most_o learned_a father_n yea_o of_o many_o pontifician_n adoravit_fw-la that_o the_o angel_n which_o abraham_n and_o joshua_n worship_v be_v the_o second_o person_n of_o the_o trinity_n and_o the_o other_o angel_n gen._n 18._o 2._o and_o 19.1_o num._n 22.31_o be_v present_a in_o place_n and_o do_v visible_o and_o sensible_o appear_v to_o abraham_n and_o the_o rest_n and_o upon_o that_o vision_n they_o make_v outward_a obeisance_n to_o they_o perceive_v they_o be_v divine_a messenger_n but_o do_v these_o or_o any_o other_o holy_a man_n who_o example_n be_v commend_v in_o holy_a scripture_n make_v outward_a obeisance_n or_o offer_v prayer_n to_o angel_n when_o they_o be_v absent_a from_o they_o in_o heaven_n or_o when_o they_o do_v not_o behold_v sign_n and_o evidence_n of_o their_o sensible_a apparition_n jesuit_fw-la neither_o have_v protestant_n reason_n to_o stand_v against_o so_o many_o pregnant_a example_n of_o scripture_n upon_o the_o one_o example_n of_o the_o angel_n in_o the_o apocalypse_n refuse_v to_o be_v adore_v of_o s._n john_n say_v see_v thou_o do_v it_o not_o i_o be_o one_o of_o 10._o thy_o fellow_n servant_n adore_v god_n special_o this_o place_n be_v explicate_v long_o ago_o by_o the_o father_n as_o not_o against_o the_o custom_n of_o christian_a saint-worship_n for_o either_o the_o angel_n so_o appear_v as_o s._n john_n take_v he_o to_o be_v god_n and_o will_v 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altaria_fw-la say_v that_o religious_a worship_n be_v either_o simple_o divine_a and_o found_v upon_o infinite_a and_o increate_v excellency_n call_v latria_n or_o else_o superhumane_a found_v upon_o grace_n and_o glory_n which_o be_v a_o excellency_n finite_a and_o create_v papist_n yield_v the_o latter_a kind_n of_o religious_a worship_n to_o bless_a saint_n and_o angel_n but_o not_o the_o former_a to_o this_o answer_n protestant_n reply_v say_v that_o there_o be_v no_o other_o kind_n of_o worship_n than_o there_o be_v table_n of_o the_o moral_a law_n but_o there_o be_v only_o two_o table_n of_o the_o moral_a law_n the_o former_a whereof_o teach_v divine_a worship_n and_o the_o second_o humane_a civil_a or_o of_o special_a observance_n 3._o and_o if_o there_o be_v a_o mix_a worship_n partly_o divine_a and_o partly_o humane_a so_o much_o thereof_o as_o be_v divine_a be_v proper_a to_o god_n and_o may_v not_o be_v impart_v to_o any_o creature_n isaiah_n 42.8_o but_o against_o this_o they_o object_n that_o to_o every_o kind_n and_o degree_n of_o excellency_n there_o be_v a_o worship_n due_a proportional_a to_o that_o excellency_n but_o bless_a saint_n and_o angel_n have_v a_o special_a kind_n and_o degree_n of_o excellency_n superior_a to_o they_o which_o live_o upon_o earth_n therefore_o a_o special_a honour_n proportion_v to_o their_o excellency_n and_o superior_a to_o humane_a be_v due_a unto_o they_o it_o be_v answer_v that_o grant_v in_o bless_a saint_n and_o angel_n a_o excellency_n of_o grace_n and_o glory_n and_o honour_n due_a in_o respect_n of_o the_o same_o this_o prove_v not_o that_o they_o be_v to_o be_v adore_v with_o religious_a worship_n for_o then_o holy_a person_n upon_o earth_n may_v be_v worship_v with_o religious_a worship_n but_o the_o virtue_n of_o religion_n according_a to_o the_o tenet_n of_o the_o school_n respect_v immedate_o increated_a excellency_n and_o latria_n and_o religion_n be_v all_o one_o exhibeatur_fw-la and_o if_o saint_n and_o angel_n may_v be_v worship_v with_o religious_a worship_n they_o may_v be_v serve_v with_o the_o worship_n of_o latria_n and_o if_o they_o answer_v that_o worship_n of_o saint_n be_v a_o material_a action_n of_o religion_n this_o answer_n be_v confute_v by_o the_o schoolman_n themselves_o who_o also_o affirm_v that_o the_o worship_n of_o saint_n etc._n etc._n be_v a_o act_n of_o dulia_n est_fw-la and_o not_o of_o religion_n or_o latria_n the_o place_n object_v out_o of_o s._n augustin_n c._n faust._n manich._n li._n 20._o c._n 2_o 1_o be_v make_v to_o speak_v that_o by_o the_o adversary_n which_o the_o holy_a father_n intend_v not_o for_o he_o term_v not_o the_o honour_n exhibit_v by_o the_o true_a church_n to_o the_o person_n of_o martyr_n religious_a but_o he_o say_v only_o populus_fw-la christianus_n memorias_fw-la martyrum_fw-la religiosa_fw-la solemnitate_fw-la concelebrat_fw-la christian_n people_n celebrate_v the_o memorial_n of_o martyr_n with_o religious_a solemnity_n and_o then_o expound_v himself_o in_o the_o progress_n of_o the_o chapter_n