Selected quad for the lemma: christian_n
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A40712
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Humble advice to the conforming and non-conforming ministers and people how to behave themselves under the present liberty / by the author of Toleration not to be abused.
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Fullwood, Francis, d. 1693.
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1673
(1673)
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Wing F2508; ESTC R19538
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34,515
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144
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a Parish doth not make Members of a Church 15. Removal from one Parish to another is allowed and why not to a separate Cogregation 16. Tender Consciences ought thus to be relieved 17. It is against Christian charity to deny this liberty 18. This Liberty will prove the best means of Uniformity 19. What if we have liberty from the State to gather Churches 20. Some things may be tolerated that are thought unlawful 21. Multitudes that cannot conform must live without some ordinances all their days 22. Those that separate have given good Testimony of their Godliness and Peaceableness And have used all means first to know the mind of Christ 23. You charge us with Schism to render us odious All these were Independent Arguments in 1644. how they commensed to be Presbyterian in 1672. I know not But this I know that then the Presbyterians were not shy to declare gathering Churches out of our Churches under all flourishes and iittle pretenses was a Schismatical and dangerous Separation and not to be allowed For which they gave the world not onely their Authority but such Reasons as you have heard but shall never see answered Some of their Propositions follow Some of the Presbyterian Assertions whereby they refelled the foresaid Independent pretenses for gathering Churches as more at large appeareth in the Dialogue are these 1. OUr Parochial Congregations are true Churches 2. To make one a Member of such a Church it is sufficient that he professeth Christianity and lives in the Parish and he may claim Communion thereupon 3. The old Non-Conformists did not separate from the Parish Churches or renounce Membership though they thought kneeling at the Communion unlawful and I may add had as much cause to complain of Persecution and want of Reformation as any have now but did some of them with Zeal and Learning defend our Churches against those of the Separation 4. None ought to be indulged but such as agree with the establishment as to the substance of Doctrine and Worship 5. These should not be indulged so far as to separate and gather new Churches 6. This is Schism and the means of confusion in the Church and in Families 7. None are to be allowed to withdraw Communion in things wherein they agree with us But in all such things they ought to retain Communion with the Congregation where they live 8. The Separatists holding our Churches to be true Churches is an Aggravation of their Separation 9. To depart from Churches me acknowledg to be true is not to hold Communion with them as such but rather by departing to declare them not to be such 10. To leave all Ordinary communion in any Church with Dislike when Opposition or Offence offers it self is â—o Separate in the Scripture-Sense and was not in being in the Apostles times unless by false Teachers 11. All who professed Christianity in the Apostles times held Communion together notwithstanding differences in Judgment or corruptions in Practice 12. The Judgment of pure and impure Ordinances is not to be left to the alone discretion of a particular Person 13. To Separate from those Churches Ordinarily and Visibly with whom occasionally you may joyn without Sin seemeth to be a most unjust Separation 14. It is one thing to Remove to a Congregation that is under the same Rule another to a Congregation of a different constitution In the one a man retaineth his Membership in the other he Renounceth it 15. Testimonies of Godliness are no infallible Protections against Schism 16. 'T is no breach of Charity to hinder all unjust Separaions 17. A man may want the Lords Supper with less Danger then to purchase it by a sinful Separation 18. The Church is not bound to Indulge a Liberty to Erring Consciences especially to the evident disturbance of her own Peace 19. No pretences of tenderness of Consciences or of Edification or of enjoying all Ordinances or of holding Communion with us as Saints in the Church Catholick or of Occasional Communion with us as a particular Church or of holding communion with us as far as they â—re able or that they cannot joyn with us without Sin or lastly no acceptions that they take either against our Officers or Members None of these or any such can warrant a Sepaparation from us or gathering new Churches out of ours For these make not the Cause of a just separation which ought to appear ex natura rei Rememmber from whence thou art faln FINIS ERRATA PAge 33. Line 2. Read Not only for Wrath but also for Conscence sake Rom. 13. 5. p. 34. l. 14. dele and. p. 35. l. 18. r. things p. 40. l. 1. r. Subterfuges p. 54. l. 21. r. should not be p. 78. l. 17. r. our Government Some Books Printed for and sold by James Collins at the Kings Arms in Ludgate-street 1673. OBservations upon Military and Political Affairs by the most Honourable George Duke of Albemarle Folio price 6. s. A Sermon Preached by Seth Lord Bishop of Sarum at the Funeral of the most Honourable George Duke of Albemarle Quarto price 6. d. Philosophia Pia or A Discourse of the Religious tendences of the Experimental Philosophy to which is added a Recommendation and Defence of Reason in the Affairs of Religion by Joseph Glanvil Rector of Bath Octavo price 2 s. The Way to Happiness represented in its Difficulties and Encouragemeents and cleared from many popular and dangerous mistakes by Joseph Glanvil A Praefatory Answer to Mr. Henry Stubbs the Doctor of Warwick by Jos Glanvil Octavo price 1. s. 6. d. The Life and Death of Mr. George Herbert the Excellent Author of the Divine Poems Written by Is Walton Octavo price 1. s. A Discourse of the Forbearance or penaties which a due Reformation requires by Herbert Thorndike one of the Prebendaries oâ— Westminster Octavo A Private Conference between a rich Alderman and a poor Country Vicar made Publick wherein is discoursed the Obligation of Oaths which have been imposed on the Subjects of England Octavo 2. s. The Episcopacy of the Church of England justified to be Apostolical from the Authority of the Primitive Church and from the confessions of the most famous Divines beyond the Seas by the Right Reverend the late Lord Bishop of Duresm with a Preface written by Sir Henry Yelverton Baronet Octavo A Collection of Sermons preached before the King at White-hall by the Right Reverend Father in God Seth Lord Bishop of Sarum Catholick Charity recommended in a Sermon before the Right Honourable the Lord Mayor of London in order to the abating the animosities among Christians that have been occasioned by differences in Religion by Jos Glanvile Rector of Bath price 6. d. A Mirrour of Christianity and a Miracle of Charity or an exact Narrative of the Life and Death of the Lady Alice Dutches Dudley by R. Coreman D. D. price 6 d. The General Assembly or the necessity of the receiving the Communion in our Publique Congregations evinced from the Nature of the Church the Word of God and Presbyterian Principles A Sermon by Francis Fulwood D. D. price 6. d. Miserere Cleri A Sermon presenting the Miseries of the Clergy and Assigning their true Causes in order to Redress by Edw. Wettenhall B. D. price 6. d. Vrim Thummim or the Clergies Dignity and Duty recommended in a Visitation Sermon by Mal. Convant B. D. price 6. d. A Discourse of Toleration in answer to a late Book entituled A Discourse of the Religion of England price 6. d. Indulgence not justified being a Continuation of the Discourse of Toleration in answer to the Arguments of a late Book entituled A Peace-Offering or Plea for Indulgence and to another call'd The second Discourse of the Religion of England price 6 d. Toleration not to be abus'd or a serious Question soberly debated and resolved upon Presbyterian Principles c. price 6 d. The Judgment of the Learned and Pious St. Augustine concerning Penal Laws against Conventicles and for Unity in Religion delivered in his 48 Epistle to Vincentius FINIS
false as do not preserve all Christian Communion with the Saints nor joyn with them in all duties of worship so far as they are able shall not have the benefit of this indulgence And to the end that these words so far as they are able may not stand for a meer Cypher and signifie nothing let each man particularly declare in what ordinances he is able to joyn that so all total Separation may be prevented p. 70. Indep Though we shall not joyn with we will not condemn your Churches as false And this no rigid Separation p. 71. Presb. The condemning our Churches as false doth little extenuate the Separation For divers of the Brownists who have totally separated in former times have not condemned these Churches as false Though you do not pronounce an affirmative judgement against us your very separating is a tacit and practical condemning of our Churches if not as false yet as impure eousque as that in such Admistrations they cannot be by you as Members communicated with without sin Indep However though we cannot communicate with you as Members of your particular Congregations yet we will preserve all Christian Communion with you as Saints and Members of the Catholick Church Presb. This is as full a declining Communion with us as Churches as if we were false Churches p. 72. Indep If this be called Schism or the countenance of Schism it is more then we have yet learned either from the Scripture or any approved Author p. 73. Presb. It gives manifest countenance to perpetual Schâ—sm should this be allowed you Not that we think differences in Judgment in this or that point to be Schism or that every Inconformâ—ty unto every thing is Schism so as Communion be preserved Or that Separation from Idolotrous Communion ex se unlawful is Schism but 1. We find that you desire not onely that you may be free from communicating as Members in those Parishes where you dwell but also that you may have liberty to have Congregations of such persons who out of tenderness of Conscience cannot communicate with us but do voluntarily offer themselves to joyn in separate Congregations of another Communion Which Secession of our Members from us is a manifest rupture of our Societies into other and is therefore a Schism in the body And if the Apostle doth call those Divisions of the Church wherein Christians did not separate into diverse formed Congregations of several Communions in the Sacrament Schisms much more may such Separations as you desire be so called 2. We find it not alleaged as a Cause of your Separation either that our Churches are false or our Communion exâ—se unlawful but onely Scruple of Conscience that you cannot without sin as to you partake in all duties and enjoy all ordinances which is no Cause of separating nor doth it take off Causless Separation from being Schism which may arise from errours of Conscience as well as carnal and corrupt Reasons Therefore we conceive the Causes of Separation must be shewn to be such as ex Natura rei will bear it out which hath not yet been done nor we think can be 3. And now we desire you to shew out of Scripture and approved Authors what you have learned concerning Schism For the breaking off Members from their Churches which are lawfully constituted Churches and from Communion in Ordinances dispenfed according to Gods word without just and sufficient Cause ex natura rei to justifie such Secession and to joyn in other Congregations of separate Communion either because of Causless Scruple of their own Conscience or because of personal failings in the Officers or Members of the Congregation from which they separate hath been accounted Schism and the setting up Altare contra Altare And concurrently do approved Authors say and we likewise conceive that it is the Cause of the Separation which gives both name and thing to Schism For if the cause be unjust or insufficient according to the Rule of the Word of God let our Brethren tell us what such Separation is It is our â—arnest desire and Prayer that our Brethren might enjoy the Ordinances with the Peace of their Consciences and of the Church also or that they would rather deny themselves of their full liberty in every point then redeem it at the price of so much danger and disqâ—riet to the Churches of God p. 74 5 6 7. Indep The Ministers of the Parish Churches are not such as we can comfortably joyn with and sit down under Presh We do not believe that you mean that onely such should be allowed to gather into your Congregations who live under bad and unprofitable Ministers though that be the onely medium there used against our Reason Where the Ministry is without P. 84 85. just exception we refer it to your own Conscinces and to the practise of your Congregations to say how fit it is that the Members should ordinarily much less constantly seek the Ordinances elsewhere We long to know what Reformation of our Parishes will satisfie your Consciences or how this Kingdom may be made the Kingdom of the Lord and of his Christ better then by dividing it into several parts by the bounds of their dwellings that all who give up their Names to Christ may be taught and governed and have all the Ordinances administred among them suitable to their Conditions p. 102. Indep But it seems you would have us for ever to want the Lords Supper which is not to be endured p. 102. Presb. 1. Why may not some expedient satisfie you in this to prevent so great an evil as Separation 2. We may not do evil for any good end If a man should be brought to such a Streight as that either he must want the Lords Supper or separate from the Congregation whereof he is a Member he may here want the Ordinance during this Errour of his Conscience with less danger than to purchase it by a sinful separation 3. This is a strange and dangerous way of arguing which may open a gap to as many Divisions and Subdivisions in the Church as the Errours are unto which the minds of men are subject And if this be allow'd we desire you to consider how long not our Churches onely but your own or any other Churches in the World shall be free from uncurable unquietness Indep It must be a prejudice to the Church we are in if we separate from her in the Lords Supper And yet you would have us live under their Government whom we prejudice which seems unreasonable to us p. 104 Presb. If your Errours cause prejudice against you is it unreasonable for you to be under the Government of that Church which is prejudiced by you may you with good reason Scandalize the Church by Separation and the Church have no reason to govern you then prejudicating or scandalizing Errours are a Supersedeas to all Government We do not then wonder that Errours and perverse opinions so much abound it may be