Images are goodly ceremonies Your taking of Ashes bearing of Palme displinge with white roddes créeping to the crosse sencing and kissing of Images and burning of candles before them are goodly ceremonies Your solemne and pompous processions about your Churches and churchyardes wéekely and about your parishes yéerely are goodly obseruations Your solemne and backanall Feastes that you obserue yerely in the honour of such Angelles and men as you thinke to bée in high fauour with God and able to furder your sutes to him or of themselues to doo you some pleasure are goodly obseruations Your yerely feastes of Lent Ember Saints Vigilles and wéekely Fridayes and Saterdayes are goodly obseruations with many moe which now I doo not remember But it may be that some of your sorte will thinke that I doo vse this Epitheton Goodly by a figure in speach named by the Grecians 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And is vsed when men speake one thing and meane the contrarie Surely such as doo so take my meaning doo not take it amisse for what reason is there to mooue a man to applie this Epitheton goodly in the right sence thereof to these such other ceremonies and obseruations wherein there is nothing that rightly may be called either good or goodlye We are contented therefore that your Popish Catholique Church doo take to her selfe the whole praise and commendation that the inuention of these goodly ceremonies and obseruations hath or can deserue Yea we would be verie sorie that any of your sorte should bee able to make good proofe that any of our sorte had instituted or ordayned any of those goodly ceremonies or obseruations that you estéeme so highly of As for the feastes of Easter and Whitsontyde we know that God him selfe dyd first institute them the one namely Easter in the remembraunce of the deliueraunce of the people of Israell out of Egipt and the other that is Whitsontyde or Pentecost in the remembraunce of the publishing of the Lawe in the mount Sinaie Whych as they were remembraunces of thinges then past so they were figures or shadowes of thinges then to come and now alreadie fulfilled in the death and resurrection of our Sauiour Christ and in the sending of the holy Ghost vpon the Apostles the fifteth day after the resurrection of our Sauiour Christ And we are perswaded that these two feastes were obserued euen by the Apostles themselues in rememberaunce of our deliuerance which we haue by the death and resurrection of our Sauiour Christ and of the comming of the holy Ghost which rested vpon the Apostles in the forme of firie tongues deuided Yea and we doo thinke that the Saboth or the Lordes day commonly called the Sonday was obserued by the Apostles yea and that shortly after the tyme of the Apostles the right catholique Christians began to obserue yéerely certaine dayes in the rememberaunce of holy men which had suffered for the testimonie of Christ and some dayes in the remembraunce of those great and inestimable benifits that God hath bestowed vpon mankinde in the incarnation natiuity Epiphanie and Ascention of our Sauiour Christ But there is no cause to mooue vs to thinke that eyther the Apostles or the fathers dyd iustitute those feastes as obseruations necessarie to bée obserued for euer but as profitable remembraunces wherby the congregations of Christ might be mooued to be thankfull to God and encouraged to followe the good examples of those good men whose remembraunces they dyd solemnise And after this manner and for this purpose wee also doo obserue some of those seastiuall dayes Not hauing any superstition in the holines of the times neither beeing perswaded that we doo deserue any thing at Gods hand by the obseruing of the times or that we should sinne against God if by a common consent we should abrogate the obseruation of those times or by some priuate or vrgent occasion imploy those tymes in our honest and necessarie businesses For our Sauiour Christ hath tolde vs that euen the Saboth in such causes is in mans power Man was no made for the Saboth but the Saboth was made for man Marc. 2. Marc. 2. And as touching fasting we obserue Lent the Ember dayes the Fridayes and Saterdayes in euerie wéeke and the vigilles of saintes but not as you doo superstitiously but for good policie We doo not account one meate holyer then another neither one time better then another But we abstaine from certaine kindes of meates at certayne tymes that thereby the common weale of our countrie may be bettered And would to God al would obserue that policie more precisely then any of vs dooth As touching our own persons we do not thinke our selues to be either the better or the wursse by taking or leauing of the vse of Gods creatures Rom 14 But according to S. Paules rule to the Romans Capit 14. When we take the vse of Gods creatures wée doo giue thanks vnto him for them and when we doo leaue the vse of them we doo thanke hym also Wee doo knowe that that fast is the right fast which is commended by Esay Esay 58. the Prophet Chap. 58. and by saint Peter 1. Peter 2. 1 Peter 2. Breake thy breade to the hungrie That is giue of the sustinaunce of thine owne body to hym that hath no sustinaunce to féed his body withall And abstaine sayth Saint Peter from fleshly lustes that fight against the soule Thus if you wyll you may sée that the right knowne Catholique Church hath instituted and ordayned all such ceremonies and solemne obseruations as may rightly bée called goodly and that your Popishe Catholique Church hath corrupted many of them by superstition and idolatrie and hath also deuised many other such as may by the figure 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 bee called goodly ceremonies and solemne obseruations Wherefore I require you to performe your promise that you make when you say Then I wyll recant and not before The sixt Offer Offerer Syxt Let the Protestantes shewe what Church from Christ his tyme hetherto and for the whole space of these fifteene hundred yeeres past hath exercised discipline and due correction vpon offenders of all degrees and for that purpose hath not only prouided and made but continuallie executed lawes Canons and decrees ecclesiasticall by suspension excommunication degradation and such other lyke Let them prooue thys discipline to haue proceeded of the Protestantes congregations or to haue contynued from time to time in any other Church then in the common knowen Catholique Church of Christ And I wyll then recant and not before Crowley Here is much a doo and little helpe The learned protestant must prooue that thing that no Protestant hath dooth or wyll at any time affirme for otherwise the Offerer wyll in no wise yéelde to recant We doo knowe and haue at all times confessed that Christes knowen Catholique Church onely hath the keyes of opening and shutting loosing and binding and that none other congregation but that can
assisted mee but all men left mee alone God graunt it bee not layde to their charge c. If this Offerer his fellowes haue any eyes to sée they may sée that when the Apostle Paule being in prison in Rome did write this Epistle to Timoth. the Bishops and priests that then were in Rome were scarce worthy the name of Christians bicause they durst not stand to the profession of Christian Religion as S. Paule did but left him all alone betraying the Christian cause as much as in them lay Yea and hereof it may bée probably gathered that Peter was not then at Rome and consequently that hee was not Bishop of Rome for the space of xxv yéeres togither as the Romish Catholiques doo affirme that hee was Yea rather it may bée thought that hee neuer was Bishop of Rome for this Epistle was written in Rome the 13. yeere of the raigne of Nero which was the 35. yeere after saint Paule was conuerted to Christ But if hee were then Bishop of Rome hée was at that time either fled from Rome fearing the persecution or els being in that Citie hée durst not shew him selfe to bée of one minde with Paule and so by his example the rest that then were Christians in Rome withdrew them selues from Paule and left him all alone Thirteene yeeres before this the Apostle Paule had written to the Romaines being then at Corinth in the last yeere of the raigne of Claudius the Emperour And as it appeareth in the first Chapter of that Epistle the fame of that Church was such at that time that saint Paule wrote thus Primum quidem gratias ago Deo meo Rom. 1 per Iesum Christum pro omnibus vobis quia fides vestra annuntiatur in vniuerso mundo First of all I giue thankes to my God thorough Iesus Christ on the behalfe of you all for that your faith is declared through out the whole world The Church therefore or Congregation of Christians that then were in Rome were of the best sort of Christians And bicause that Citie was then the chiefe City that then was in the world therefore the fame of their faith was spred ouer all the world But yet as appeareth by that which is before alleaged they had their faults and infirmities which were seene in them more at one time then at another At the first when they receiued the doctrine of the gospell they were earnest professors and followers of the same as commonly men haue bin in our daies and are still but when persecution began to arise for the professing thereof they began to shew them selues to bee like that seede that being sowne fell in stony ground and yet being againe moystened with that dew of Gods grace which fell from aboue they tooke déepe roote and so became more fruitfull in the ende For many of that age gaue their liues for the testimony of the truth and were Martirs or witnesses of Iesus Christ as in the Church Histories dooth appeere But that these were the writers of the Scriptures appeareth not in any Histories for they were written before some by the Prophets and some by the Apostles and such bookes as were written after the time wherein the other Apostles liued were written by the Apostle Iohn which liued after all the rest As touching the especiall care that you say the Catholique Church hath from time to time had not only of preaching the word but also of preseruing the same c all learned Protestants doo know that no man could haue greater care to preach the woord to discerne the bookes of holy scripture from prophane writings and to preserue them from the corruption of the aduersaries then they that in the time of the tenne first persecutions professed the Catholique religion And amongst those Catholiques none were more forwarde therein then were they which then were dwelling in the City of Rome But what maketh this for proofe that the Romish Church hath alwaies bin and is still the keeper and preseruer of the scriptures The first Romish Church which was Catholique preached the gospell as the Apostles and Disciples of Christ had doone but that Romish church that now is and hath bin for the space of these last thousand yéeres almost being Antichristian dooth and hath all this while preached mens traditions is to bee noted with that saying that the Prophet Esay vsed in reprehending the Leuiticall Priestes of his time Esay 29. Esay 29. Cited by our sauiour Christ Math. 15. Math. 15. Populus hic labijs me honorat c. This people honour mee with their lips they draw nighe vnto mée with their mouth but their heart is farre from mée In vaine doo they worship mée in teaching the doctrines and commaundements of men c. The first Romish Church vsed the Sacraments that Christ had instituted religiously and to that end that our sauiour Christ had instituted them for but that Romishe Church which you call Catholique hath for the space of these 1000. yeeres almost and dooth still abuse those Sacraments namely Baptisme and the Supper of the Lord commonly called the Sacrament of the body and blood of our sauiour Christ For that Church dooth minister that sacrament to Churches to Belles and to Ships that saile on the seas and of the other sacrament they make an Idole lifting it vp ouer their heads to bee worshipped setting it vpon their high alter or hanging it ouer the same burning incense before it and vsing iestures of diuine honour before it and carying it abroade in pompous maner compelling the people to doo diuine honour to it Yea they offer it vp to God as a sacrifice for the sinnes both of the quick the dead and in tempests of weather and in coniurations they make it a bug to feare the diuell withall The first Catholique Church in their exercise of Religion did vse as few Ceremonies as might bee for they knew that our sauiour Christ had broken downe that midle walle or particion which was the lawe of Ceremonies contayned in the lawe written and had through the flesh bin the occasion that discord whereby the nations of the worlde were so seuered from the people of Israell that they could neuer ioyne with them in one religion till our sauiour Christ had made it voyde and made of both the people 's but one new man making peace that he might reconcile both in one body And Ephe. 2. Ephe. 2. But your Romish Catholique Church hath reedified a new middle walle or particion of a law of Ceremonies not contayned in the law written but diuised by men And that particion they doo still maintaine and vphold enforcing all men that will beare the name of Christ and bée called Christians to allow of and to vse those Ceremonies and all such as doo refuse those Ceremonies they doo excommunicate and deliuer to the secular powre to bée consumed to ashes with fire or otherwise to bée tormented onely bicause they refuse to vse
eyther admit any to be of the fellewship of Christians or by excommunication cut of any man from that body of Christ but onely that knowen Catholique church of Christ which is builed vpon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets Iesus Christ being the head cornerstone You doo therefore offer vs great iniurie in that you require vs to prooue that which we dyd neuer affirme But I sée what stone it is that the Offerer dooth so often stumble at He is perswaded that there can be no knowen Catholique Church of Christ but that Romishe Church whereof he himselfe is a member which is now manifestly knowen to be an Antichristian congregation and not the knowen Catholique Church of Christ as the Offerer and hys fellowes would beare vs in hand that it is The knowen Catholique Church of Christ hath alwayes vsed to execute ecclesiasticall censures vpon such as haue béene offensiue in lyfe and manners and vpon such as haue béene disturbers of the common peace of the Church and so doo we at this day without respect of any mans person so farre foorth as in dutifull obedience to such as God hath made our gouernour we may But to excommunicate and depose Princes we haue not learned of S. Paule nor of the Fathers that lyued in the first sixe hundered yéeres after the ascention of our Sauiour Christ Your bragge of 1500. yéeres continuance in the executing of your discipline must bee cut shorter by 600. yéeres for your Catholique Antichristian Church hath not floryshed in her pride full one thousand yéeres as yet neither haue you executed your tirannous discipline in such sorte as you would séeme to haue doone in that tyme of your tirannous raigne But whensoeuer you tooke in hand to execute any discipline you had and so yée haue still a speciall regarde to your owne ease and commoditie and to the aduanceing and vpholding of your owne honour and dignity Your owne Histories are full of the reportes of your corrupt and partiall dealinges in that behalfe It is God himselfe that hath prescribed an order of discipline and hath in all tymes and ages committed the execution thereof to hys Church which hath had continaunce euen from the beginning of the world This discipline was first engrauen in the hartes of men and after that in tables of stone and last of all in bookes that by those outwarde meanes the discipline grauen in the hart might be daily refreshed but euen the best men that haue béene in Authority in the Church and haue had the execution of thys discipline haue béene to slacke in that he halfe as by histories it appeareth No maruaile therfore though to great slacknes in the execution of this discipline be found in that Church which you and your sorte doo account to be Schismaticall but is in déede Catholique and that knowen Catholique Church from which your Antechristian Church is fallen That discipline that you make so great a reckoning of is your cannon lawe I am sure which your Popes haue patched together since they gate the vpper hand and enforced Princes to doo them seruice and to kysse their féete That discipline you execute with Precipimus firmiter iniungendo mandamus Wee charge you say you and with firme iniūction we commaund you And what is it that you doo thus commaund to be doone That such a man or such a woman as hath not appeared in your courte or hath refused to pay such fées as your officers requyre or that hath failed in dooing some acte that by that lawe they are bound to doo be denounced excommunicated sub pena iuris Vnder payne of hauing the penalty of the Lawe executed vppon that minister that wyll not denounce such a one excommunicated But if a whore or a whoremonger a drunkarde or a blasphemer of God an Vsurer or a simmoniacke or any other wicked person shal be conuented before your ecclesiasticall iudge if hys pursse be waightie and his hande readie to reache out money in paying double fées and in giuing to such vses as you cal Godly so that you may haue the disposing therof then this party must be receiued as a communicant amongest Christians although it doo appeare manyfestly that there is neyther amendment of lyfe nor hope of repentaunce shewed any way And would God that our execution of discipline were more frée from this corruption then it is But that wyll not be so long as so many of your minde may be suffered to bée in offyce vnder them that haue the execution of discipline I thinke you doo now sée that the right dscipline hath not béene prouided and made by men neither of your sorte nor of ours but by God himselfe And that there hath béen and is still as great yea greater corruption vsed in the executing of discipline amongst you as is or hath béene amongst vs. Yea and that your Church which is Antichristian hath not had the continuance of 1500. yéeres in that glory that now it dooth claime vnto it selfe Wherfore I doo require you now to recant according to promise although you would not before The seauenth Offer Offerer Seauenth Let me knowe of the Protestantes what Church hath brought forth for the space of these fifteene hundered yeeres past as Children begotten of her owne wombe so many thousandes of blessed Martyrs of stoute and bolde confessers of pure and innocent virgins and of other holy Saintes of all sortes and so acknowledged by eyther party And if it shal in fine fall out that any one of them was of the Protestantes congregation fayth or beleefe whiles they liued heere and not of the common knowen fayth and religion of the Catholique Church of Christ or that they were approoued and canonized for Saintes when they were dead by the Protestantes congregation not onely by the Catholique Church of Christ I shall then submit and recant and not before Crowley It séemeth that M. Offerer hath conceiued a wrong opinion of vs Protestantes He séemeth to be perswaded that none of vs haue seene the Histories of the Church Otherwise he had béene too too madde to make this large Offer For any Protestant that hath reade any thing of the Ecclesiasticall Histories may easily enforce him eyther to flie from his promisse or else to submitte himselfe and recant If any one sayth hée amongst the thousandes of the blessed Martyrs c. Shal be found to haue béene of the Protestantes fayth and religion c. Then he wyll submit hymselfe and recant I am sure of it that amongst the thousands that suffered Martirdome within the space of the first six hundereth yeres after Christs ascention he can not name one that was not whiles he liued of the same faith religion that we be of now Al we do beleue al the articles of the common tréed so did they we do beléeue that as there is but one God so there is but one mediatour betwixt God man and that the same is the man Christ Iesus
fiue hundreth yéeres haue kept themselues within their bounds and therefore they haue not lied If Caluin had said that the Church whereof wée bée had continuance for no longer time then the first thrée hundreth yéeres where Luther had said before that it had continuance for the space of foure or fiue hundreth yéeres And M. Iewell comming after them both should haue said the continuance was for the space of the first sixe hundreth yéeres in such perfection as in the first thrée hundreth yéeres then this Offerer might haue taken some oecasion to note disagréement such as is to bée séene amongst Heretikes But now hée hath no iust occasion at all Caluin considered that during the time of the first 300. yeeres the Church of Christ was still vnder tyrants and was persecuted and was thereby kept occupied in better exercises then in such pompous and ceremonial diuine seruice as now is vsed in your popish Catholique church And therefore hee is bolde to say that the Church whereof wee Protestants bee is the same that was in the first 300. yeeres after Christ for wee haue abandoned as farre foorth as wee may all those superfluous ceremonies as haue bin diuised by men and enforced vpon the Church of Christ since the ende of the first 300. yeeres which are in deede too too many as by the woords of saint Augustine Epist. 119. August in Epist 119. Ad Ianuarium Seruilibus oneribus premunt vt tolerabilior fit conditio Iudeorum c They oppresse vs with seruile burdens so that the condition or estate of the Iewes was more tollerable then ours is None of all those burdens were layde vpon the Church before the ende of the first 300. yeeres but the Christians being vnder the crosse of persecution serued God in fréedome of conscience were not tied to any necessity of ceremonies but vsed a few such ceremonies as séemed to serue best for their edification in their exercise of religion and so doo wée and that congregation also amongst whom Caluin liued which might mooue him to say that the faith and religion that is professed by vs was practized in the first 300. yeeres after the incarnation of our sauiour Christ But this Offerer requireth some better staied certaine tale c. bicause Luther and other doo differ from Caluin He must know where when this sodaine change from the protestants religion to the papists was made as in what yéere of our Lord c. If it shal please him to read it aduisedly to weigh euery part of it hee shall haue heere as plaine a tale concerning this matter as euer hée did read or heare And thus it beginneth When Christ Iesus had giuen so large a commission to his Apostles as to go into all the world to teach all nations baptizing them in the name of the father of the sonne of the holy Ghost they executed that cōmission with al painefull diligence not fearing what man either would or could doo against them And so in short time the knowledge of the gospell was spred all the world ouer as the Apostle Paule writeth to the Romaines Cap. 10. Rom. 10. citing the woords of the Prophet Dauid Psal 19. Psal 19. Jn omnem terram c. The sound of them is gone out into all the world c. But the doctrine of the gospell which they preached was not so regarded in the city of Rome as it should haue bin as it séemeth that this Offerer and his fellowes bée persuaded that it was at that time wherein saint Paule was brought prisoner to Rome which was in the tenth yeere of the raigne of Nero but foure yéeres before S. Paule ended his life At that time the chiefe amongst the Iewes that then liued in Rome being called togither by S. Paule and being occasioned by him to speake of the christian Religion they said thus Wee are willing to heare of thee what thine opinion is for we doo know that this sect is euery where spoken against Act. 28 Act 28 Yea and when S. Paule was first called to his answere before the Emperor the Christians then in Rome were so faint hearted that they did leaue him alone as he him selfe hath written to Timoth. 2. Timoth. 4. 2. Timot. 4. In prima mea defensione nemo mihi affuit sed omnes dereliquerunt me non illis imputetur c. In my first defence no man did take part with mee but all did forsake mee God grant that it bee not laid to their charge but the Lord did assist strengthen me c. And this was more then thirty yeeres after our Sauiour Christ had sent foorth his Apostles to preach If Peter were bishop of Rome at the time that S. Paule speaketh of in that 4. Cap. 2. Timoth. surely then hee performed not the parte of a good bishop neither yet of a good christian For amongst all hee must needes bee one And S. Paule saith that all did forsake him But let this passe The estate of the whole Church was no better in those daies yea it was not much better at any time during the first 300. yeeres after Christes ascention For when Constantinus the first christian Emperor began his raigne Syluester then bishop of Rome had not his aboade then in Rome but made his dwelling place in some caue in a mountaine named Soracte xx myles distant from Rome that so hée might bée more safe from the tyrannie of the Romaine Emperor But when hee vnderstoode that Constantinus was likely to bee fauorable to the Christians hée repaired to the City By this it may appeare of what account the Romaine bishops had bin what publike open preaching of the gospell there had bin in the City of Rome during that time of the first 300. yeeres It appeereth in Hystories that they had their places wherein they met and had the preaching of the woorde ministration of the Sacraments but those places were not such as Saint Peters Church which is now in Rome For that Church with the rest of the Churches in Rome were not then builded as in Platina and in other Hystories it appeereth By this you may see what cause Caluin had to say that the Catholique Religion which is the same that wee protestants doo now professe was practized for the space of the first 300. yeeres after Christ From that time forward Religion began to decline by litle and litle from that perfection that it had continued in vnder persecution and to grow towards that great decay that it came vnto in the dayes of Bonifacius the third Martin Luther therefore and M. Iewell with the rest of the authors of the Apologie of the Church of England had iust cause to say that it continued in the Romish church for the space of the first foure fiue yea sixe hundreth yéeres after Christs ascention for the Romish church was not altogither fallen away from the Catholique Religion before shee had taken
of one church For the darknesse is no more contrary to the light neither falshoode to the truth nor the deuill to God then the doctrine of Swenkfield and of the Anabaptists is to the doctrine of Luther Caluin and Zuinglius But this is the drift of this Offerer To beare the world in hand that wée Protestants doo holde maintaine euery point of doctrine that is contrarie to or diffreth from that Antichristian doctrine which hée his fellowes doo call Catholike and that wée haue none other authors of our religion but these whom hee hath héere named such like Vndoubtedly hée is heerein very much disceiued For although wée doo for good cause like very well of the iudgment of some of these men that bee heere named yet wée haue not sworne to belieue all that they haue written neither yet anie one woorde that they haue written further then they haue by the scriptures made proofe of that which they haue affirmed in writing Wée are not Lutherans Zuinglians nor Caluinists but wée are Christians as in our opinion Luther Zuinglius and Caluin were They were of one minde with S. Austen that desired no credit further then hée prooued his assertions by scripture I pray you therefore good M. Offerer offer vs not such discurtisie as to cause the world to conceiue such an opinion of vs that wée holde and maintaine wée care not and knowe not what Wée thanke the Lord our God wée are not ignoraunt what wée doo and what Christians ought to belieue and wée are ready and able to render an account of the hope that is in vs. And our God hath made vs able to iudge of the spirites and to discerne the spirite of truth from the spirite of errour And by that gifte of our God wée are made able to sée that your spirite is the spirite of Antichrist and your religion Antichristian And that the religion that wée doo professe is Catholique and the same that was professed and practized euen in Rome for the space of 300. yeeres and more next after the ascention of our Sauiour Christ And where as you require the learned Protestant to prooue that these sectes being so diuers c. or any of them do giue saluation to theyr fellowes and that you ought to béeléeue them all or any one of them we leaue to your selfe to be discussed at your leasure For we knowe that no companie or societie of men hath any power to giue any saluation neither to others or to themselues that no man is bound to beléeue another farther then hée dooth knowe that the same hath and dooth speake and write the trueth I sée no cause therefore why you should not yéeld and recant although the learned Protestant neither can prooue nor will take vpon him to prooue the thing that you haue so impudently required him to prooue The sixteenth Offer Offerer Sixteenth When the Protestant shal be able to prooue that those persons which in theyr departure made frō the Catholique Church of Christ haue more desire to beare the name of Sectaries as of Lutherans Zuinglians Illerians Caluinistes Swenkfieldeans Anabaptistes thē the name of Christians or Catholiques are the true members of Christ his Church and not Heretickes and Schismatickes nor yet followers therein of theyr fathers the Arians whych tooke theyr names of Arrius the Maniches of Manes the Nestorians of Nestorius the Nouatians the Vigilians the Iouinians Pelagians Eutichians and others then I shal yeeld and recant and not before Crowley Let the Protestant make the lyke offer and so the one offer shall be a sufficient answer to the other When the Antichristian Catholique shal be able to prooue that suche persons as doo desire rather to be called Fraunciscans of Fraunces Dominicans of Dominicke Benedictines of Benedict Augustiniās of Augustine Barnardines of Barnard Brigettines of Briget and so foorth of all the seuerall orders of Friers Monkes Chanons and Nunnes rather then by the common name of Christians bee true members of Christes Catholique Church and not Sectaries Heretickes and Schismatickes nor yet followers of theyr Fathers the Arrians which tooke theyr name of Arius c. Then will the Protestant yéelde and recant and so become an Antichristian Catholique and not before A man might meruaile to sée the blindnes of this Offerrer that could not sée howe easily this balde offer of his might be turned backe vpon himselfe Yea there is much greater reason to mooue any man to thinke that the Monkes Friers and Chanons Nunnes and others of the Popish religious persons doo desire to be named after the first founders of their religions then that they which do fauour and followe the doctrine of Luther Caluine or any other doo desire to be called by the names of them whose doctrine they followe or fauour For were it not that such as doo mislike with the doctrine of Luther and the rest doo in dirision call the fauourers of that doctrine by the names of those chéefe teachers of the doctrine wée should not amongst thousands finde one that would giue any of those names to himselfe But the Popes religious persons doo for the most parte blot out of memorie the names that were giuen vnto them when they were baptised as Frier Iohn Frauncis Minime of Nigion in Fraunce was called Debnam by hys Progenie and kindred whereof he came and at his Baptisme the name Samuell was giuen vnto him I thinke it will be hard for this Offerer to prooue that this is not a flat renouncing of Christ and Christendome For in this new name not onely the progenie of his naturall parentes is renounced but that religion also that was professed when he was baptised and in that new profession that he hath made thereis no promise made of obedience to Christ or vowe to obserue Christian religion but to obay the Father Prior and all the superiours in that order and to obserue that rule of S. Frauncis order If this be not a flatte forsaking of Christ then vndoubtedly no man can forsake him And what may bée thought of you Antichristian Catholiques Doo not you forsake Christ where you chuse a man to bée his Vicar generall captiueing and submitting your seuerall meaninges to the iudgement of your Prelates and spiritual gouerners and of one chéefe heade and pastor amongest those Prelates and that in all Ecclesiasticall thinges and causes Well I would wish you to remember your selfe better and to consider from how good loouing and faithfull a shéepheard you are gone astray and by howe many waies hee hath and dooth still séeke to bringe you home againe to hys shéepfolde the right and true Catholique Church consider that you haue willingly wittingly and wilfully made your selfe captiue to the greatest enimy that your shéephearde Christ hath or can haue Make hast to returne your shéepeheard will with ioy receiue you Your sinne is great in forsaking such a shéepheard and yet not so great but it may be pardoned Repent and beléeue the
such haue a care to doo as Saint Paule dooth there exhorte when he sayeth Let euery one that calleth vpon the name of the Lord depart from euill And in so dooing they doo in some sorte make it knowen vnto men that they be the elected and chosen children of God But this knowledge can not bée so certaine that any one man may be therby assured of the election of an other because he séeth him depart from euil For gods sercet election can not be certainly knowen by any outward signes therfore the church of Christ as it consisteth of the number that God hath in his secret election appointed to be enheritors of his kingdome may rightly be sayd to be inuisile as knowen onely to God and vnknowen vnto men 2 Timoth cap. 2 But as it followeth in the same text of S. Paule to Timoth As in a great house there are vesselles not onely of golde and of siluer but of timber and of clay also some appoynted to honest vses some to dishonest euen so is it in the Church of Christ which is the housholde of God some are of one sorte and some of an other And this mixed multitude is visible and knowen to bée that number of people that beareth the name of Christ and is called christian And in thys multitude are those elected and chosen children of God that may rightly bée called the church of Christ in this respect may the secret church of Christ be called visible Math 13. This thing dooth our Sauiour Christ set foorth plainely in the parable of the net that being cast into the sea doth drawe together fishes of all sortes but when this nette is drawen to the shore the fisher men doo chuse out the good fishes and cast away the other as vnprofitable And againe in the parable of the fielde both the good graine and the tares doo growe togeather and the féelde is called the corne féeld and not the féelde of tares tyll the tyme of the Haruest bée come but then the good grayne is gathered into barnes and the tares are bound in bundles to bée burnte in the fyer Euen so the open and knowē church which is visible séene and hearde consisting of men women and children of all sortes continueth and shall continue a myxed multitude euen till the haruest which is the ende of the world shall come And then he that now dooth alone knowe his chosen Church shall make the same knowen to all men by receiuing them to himselfe and by refusing of the rest Thus this Offerer and his fellowes may sée howe the Church of Christ may be sayd to bee inuisible and yet not denied to bée visible But it is manifest what stone it is that these men doo stumble at They are perswaded that the Church of Christ must néeds be alwaies in such floorishing estate here on earth as the Church of Roome is now and as it hath continued for many yéeres togeather But they should consider that the woman the S. Iohn sawe Apoc 12. Apoc. 12. was driuen into wildernes by the crueltie of the Dragon as I haue noted in mine aunswer to the ninth offer and yet she is stil cloathed with the Sunne and hath the moone vnder her féete and is crowned with the 12. starres Yea she is the Cittie situated on the hyll the light of the world and the candle set on the candlesticke as she was euen in those daies of horrible persecution when the Bishops of Roome had no dwelling place in Roome nor the Christians in Roome any open Church to méete in for theyr exercise of Christian religion Looke well to that which I haue written in aunswer to the ninth offer and then I hope you will not charge vs as you haue doone As touching the admonitton that S. Paule gaue to the Hebrewes Hebr 13. in the 13 Chapter of that Epistle I wishe you to weighe it well and to consider the time and what doctrine was vsuall in that tyme wherein the wordes of that admonition were written Which if yée would doo you should finde that your doctrine for the real presence of Christs bodie in the holy Eucharist for the Sacrifice of the masse and the propitiation of sinnes both of the quicke and the deade thereby for your penaunce with the fruites thereof your straightnes of lyfe your vowes inuocation of Saintes and your prayer for soules departed and such lyke are the various and strange doctrines that Saint Paule dooth warne you of For all those doctrines were straung in those daies and scarcely was any one of them hearde of Thinke therefore that S. Paule sayeth vnto you be not ledde or caried away with the diuers and straung doctrines of Transubstantiation of massing for the quicke the dead of satisfying for sinnes by penaunce enioyned by a ghostly father by fasting watching praying vowing inuocating of Saints c. For they are not agréeing but contrarie to the receiued and commonly knowen doctrine of Christes Catholique church When the Popish antichristian catholiques can be able to prooue that the high Préests Scribes and Phariseis were not the raysers vppe of those contentions and strifes that were styrred vp in the dayes wherein Christ and hys apostles preached in Ierusalem and Iewrie but Christ his apostles by preaching the doctrine of the Gospell And that the contentions and strifes that haue béene and bee styll styrred vp in our dayes haue not béene nor are styll styrred vp by them by theyr preaching and maintayning of theyr strange doctrines of transubstantiation such lyke but by vs that béeing members of the most auncient Catholike Church doo preach the same catholique doctrine that Christ and hys Apoles dyd preach and none other then wyll I recant and become a Papist and not before And because I haue in the iudgement of all indifferent readers sufficiently prooued that which this Offerer hath in this Offer required the learned Protestant to prooue I doo requyre him to doo as becommeth an honest man in performing his promise Which is to submit him selfe and to recant although hetherto he haue refused so to doo The fourth signe and token of false Prophets Offerer Fourth signe and token of false Prophets Heretiques and Schismatiques is Schisma in Ecclesiam introducere To bring into the Church of Christ by their doctrine schisme diuision and seperation of one member from another and of the whole mistical body from the true head Iesus Christ For where as the health and saluation of Christ hys flocke and people dooth most cheefely consist in peace concord and vnitie they therefore which by Schisme doo deuide and disperse his flocke and of one societie and fellowship before doo make many and diuers they in not spareinge nor preseruing in vnitie the flock of Christ are become rauening Wolues Th'apostle S. Paule knowing the great daunger and hurte vprising of Schisme dooth most humbly beseech vs with all dilligent circumspection to auoide the same saying Obsecro vos
by Fayth Theyr Doctrine concerning the worthines of theyr owne workes All these and euery one of these doo yeelde the lyke conclusion for proofe that this offerer and his fellowes be such lyinge masters and false teachers as S. Peter writeth of in those wordes that this offerer aleageth against vs when they be taken wholy togeather as S. Peter wrote them I trust that the indifferent reader will easily sée howe well he may trust this offerer when he alleageth the scriptures for his purpose or matter out of the ancient doctors for the proofe of any thing that he taketh in hand to prooue The trueth of this testimony sayth this offerer is to bée tried by all sectaries and sortes of heretickes that euer haue béene and then he nameth certaine sortes of Heretickes that were troublesome to the Catholique Church in the primitiue time thereof and he affirmeth that the errours heresies that those sortes of men helde were by the generall councels the censures of the Catholique Church condemned ouerthrowne notwithstanding that Emperours and kings did stoutly vphold and maintaine them Here this offerer dealeth as cunningly as before he hath doone in citing his sentence out of S. Peters Epistle His meaning is to make it séeme to the reader that this Roomish Catholique Church hath had Emperours and Kings at commaundement euen these 1500 yéeres togeather and that all the generall councelles that haue béene holden haue béene appointed and called togeather by the Bishops of Roome onely without the authoritie of the Emperours and Kings that haue raigned in all this time Yea he would haue it séeme that the stoute Emperours and Kings which haue béene the maintainers and vpholders of errours and heresies haue béene bridled by decrées made in generall councelles and by the censures of the Roomish Church which haue bene by the holy fathers the Popes executed vpon them Platina De vitis patrū But if this offerer will giue any credite to Platina in his history De vitis patrum he shall finde in the lyfe of Siluester the first of that name in whose time the first generall councell was holden in Nice that the same councell was called together by the commandement of Constantinus then Emperour And if he will beléeue Lawrence Surius that lyued in our dayes and was a Carthusian Frier and gathered al the councels into 4 tomes he shal finde that the Constantinopolitan councel which was the second generall councell holden in the daies of Damasus the first Pope of that name was summoned or called togeather by Theodosius then Emperour And the first Ephesian councell which was the third general councell was holden in the dayes of Caelestinus the first Pope of that name and called togeather by Theodosius the yonger and Valentinian then Emperours And the Chalcedonian councell which was the fourth generall councell was holden in the dayes of Pope Leo the first of that name and was called togeather by the Emperours Valentinianus and Martianus that then raigned And this was 450 yéeres after Christs assencion wherby it appeareth that your account of 1500. yeres must be shorter by 450. yeres For so long time your Popes were at the commaundement of the Emperours as it was méete that they should and as they ought to be at this day as I haue sufficiently prooued in mine aunswer to your first Offer But now you must haue one fling more at the Lutherans and Protestants of our time What should you make mention of them say you sith in this realme the Lutherans haue taken their iust ouerthrowe all ready c. This Offerer and his fellowes building their foundation besid the rocke Christ which is the onely right foundation of right religion doo déeme that wée Protestantes haue none other foundation to build our religion vpon but Luther Oecolampadius Zuinglius and Caluine But they are disceiued For as I haue sayd in mine answer to the 15. Offer we doo not so estéeme of these or of any other men that we would builde our faith vpon them but we doo build vpon the rocke Christ as they did and we know that Dies declarabit in English the day wil declare That is the time of knowledge wherein the mist of darke ignoraunce shal be doon away the bright shining beames of the trueth shall make manifest in the harts of all men that haue eyes to see hartes to vnderstand whose doctrine ours or yours is méet to be called goold siluer and precious stones or on the contrarie timber haie strawe and stubble I know that the auncient fathers hauing occation to write of that godly life and conuersation that is required in Christians do vnderstand by gold siluer and precious stones such good workes as the right christian faith that worketh by looue is accustomed to bring forth and by the hay stubble and timber the contrarie And it is not amisse that in that case they doo so apply the words of the Apostle But in the circumstance of the text it appereth that the apostle meant rather of doctrin then of manners although the place may be applied to both because true christians doo teach both by doctrine and by life But to our purpose This Offerer dreameth that he séeth the Lutherans already ouerthrowen in this realme and al other sectaries for so it pleaseth him to terme all such as be not of his owne sorte yéelding vp the Ghost and ready to tylt vp their héeles For the Precisians and Puritans are in fauour with the common and baser sorte of the people and the magistrates doo so wincke at them that no small number of men of all sortes doo further and fauour them to the great encrease of them As touching the sectes that this Offerer speaketh of here enough hath béene spoken already We are christians we neuer were Lutherans Oecolampadians Zuinglians nor Caluinistes But in very déed many of vs were Papists before it pleased God in mercie to open the eyes of our vnderstanding and to shewe vs our saluation in our onely mediatour Christ Iesus To him alone we do now cleaue as to our onely shéepheard and high Préest His voyce we doo knowe and béeing his shéepe we harken to his voyce and we doo followe him We can not abide to here the voice of straungers Precisians and Puritans we can not mislike of if they bée such as all christians should bee that is precise in obseruing and kéeping of the commandements of God according to that which is written Deut 5 Deu 5 kéepe and doo those thinges that the Lord God hath commaunded you you shall not bowe to the right hand nor to the left but ye shal walke in that way that your Lord God hath commaunded you c. Such Precisians we do like well of and we doo still beg of God in prayer that it may please him in mercie to make vs euery day more precise then other And we are perswaded that no man is or can be so precise that way as all Christians