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A51572 The Messias of the Christians and the Jewes held forth in a discourse between a Christian, and a Iew obstinately adhering to his strange opinions, & the forced interpretations of scripture, wherein Christ the true savior of the whole world is described from the prophets and likewise that false and counterfeited Messias of the Jewes, who in vaine is expected by that nation to this very day, is discovered / written first in Hebrew, but now rendered into English by Paul Isaiah, a Jew born, but now a converted and baptized Christian. Münster, Sebastian, 1489-1552.; Eliazar Bar-Isajah. 1655 (1655) Wing M3039A; ESTC R42183 58,523 257

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the living for the transgression of my people was he smitten and he made his grave with the wicked and with the rich in his death because he had done no violence neither was any deceit in his mouth Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him hee hath put him to griefe when thou shalt make his soule an offering for sin he shall see his seed he shal prolong his daies and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hands He shall see of the travell of his soule and shall be satisfied by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justifie many for he shall bear their iniquities Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great and he shall divide the spoile with the strong because hee hath poured out his soule unto death and hee was numbred with the transgressors and hee bare the sinne of many and made intercession for the transgressors You see here what Isaiah the Prophet hath said concerning the death of the Messias how he should die for our sins that he might save our soules and might lead us into the Kingdome of heaven and that he should see his seed and should prolong his daies and truly the pleasure of the Lord hath had a prosperous successe in his hand Forasmuch as his name hath been magnified in the whole earth and you who slew him are disperst throughout all the nations your house is desolate and you are become of the people of God not the people of God and of Gods peculiar inheritance an abomination in the eies of God and of the sons of God the sons of Belial But on the contrary they who beleeve in God and in his Christ these are the people the possession and the sons of God and they shall never see death because after this world sin shall not bee and by consequent neither death which is the punishment of sin Iew Our Masters speak far otherwise of these things for they say in the time of the Messias the earth shal be filled with the knowledge of the Lord because of the plentifull pouring forth of God whereby he shall then bow himselfe downe to the world neither shall faith be then corrupted neither shall man be changed but to good and to perfection It is also likely that then the dead shall not rise but they who have been just the wicked shall remain in death some few excepted And truly you have now seen that innumerable miracles shall be wrought in the time of the Messias as I have shewed you and because all these are not yet come to passe wee beleeve not in your Christ but doe expect our redeemer neither doe we despaire though many and great tribulations doe meet us in this our moderne captivity Christian You and your Rabbies do err very much for al these wonderfull things concerning which you have spoke to me are fulfilled already some few excepted which shall bee wrought in the second comming of Christ that is in the end of the world when Christ shall come to judge the quick and the dead for our Christ hath raised some dead from a corporall death and some from a spiritual death At this day Idolatry is taken out of the world and the earth is full of the knowledge of the Lord because all people doe at this day confesse one God Now many people doe goe to enter into the house of the God of Iacob which is the Church of beleevers in Christ Now the wolfe dwels with the lambe that is the ungodly man and the destroier with the meeke and hee doth not hurt him Moreover there was peace through the whole world in those daies when our Christ was born for one man namely Octavianus did then reign over the whole world in peace and in the world to come there shall be peace without end Now the gates of Ierusalem are open that is the Church of the faithfull is open and every man of each sex man and woman old man and young man rich and poor Iew and Gentile whosoever will may enter in Also the mountaine of the Lords house is prepared on the top of the mountaines and is lifted above the hils At this day in Ierusalem among beleevers the voice of weeping and mourning is no more heard because they have consolation here and they expect in the world to come joy which shall never bee taken from them There men shall live not only five hundred or a thousand yeares but for ever and ever Iew I understand not your words because you speake figuratively and not according to the letter of the Scripture Christian This is that which the Lord hath said by the Prophet The ox knows his owner and the asse his Masters crib but Israel doth not know my people doth not consider Likewise Moses saith the Lord shall smite thee with madness blindnesse and astonishment of hearth and thou shalt grope at noon day as the blinde man gropeth in darkness and thou shalt not prosper in thy daies Iew This is the punishment wherewith God doth chastise us for our sin but he will not throw off his people for ever Christian What is that your sinne for which this banishment which now you suffer so long after the second house is so much prolonged beyond the banishment of the first house since that it is sufficiently manifest of the greatnesse of the sins which the Kings of Iuda did and yet for them the time of banishment was not prolonged but two and fifty yeares but in the second house they did not worship Idols and neverthelesse the captivity endures wonderfull long Iew I answer you to this doubt thus The sins wch they cōmitted in the time of the first house were very grievous that even then it was decreed that the second Temple should not stand but seventy whole weeks and then againe they should suffer punishment and should beare the iniquity of their fathers to the end of the redemption as it is explained in the end of Daniel which present captivity in which wee now are is for the sins which the Israelites committed before the Babylonish captivity Christian This your answer is vaine for the sonne shall not bear the iniquity of his father if hee bee not a follower of his fathers wickednesse but I will heare what Daniel saith concerning that captivity Iew Behold he speaks after this manner Blessed is he that waites and comes to a thousand three hundred and thirty five daies but a yeare is as a long day And againe a day is a little yeare Likewise there is a certaine place found in the earth where almost a whole yeare is but one day For example there is a place where the day takes up six months and the night challengeth to it selfe the remnant of time there I say a yeare consists of one day So Daniel called dayes yeares because he would have his words shut up and sealed Christian And when shall the mentioned number 1335 be accomplisht Iew Some say that number is extended to the year of the world 6118 which is the 2367 year of Christ For first they counted 1290 daies to
shepherd Consider that you have not a certaine and constant dwelling place I desire to know the reason why God hath cast you from him so many yeares nor doth at any time remember you for your good For when of old he punisht your fathers for their sins when they were converted and did confesse and praied unto him in their banishment he forthwith delivered them and sent them a deliverer why doth hee not the same in this time of your grievous captivity Iew Know you not that his wisdome and his counsels are not to be searcht into which do so far exceed our apprehensions as it is written The Lord is terrible in his counsell towards the sons of men we know not neither can we apprehend his wisdome and prudence or find it out and know it but he knows what he doth Christian I wonder at this your answer when you say you know not the cause why God hath cast you out of his presence surely it must needs be for some great sin such as you never committed from the beginning of the world you or your fathers whatsoever it is Furthermore when you say the comming of the Messias is nigh tell me I pray what that is which is recited in the Talmud When Rabbi Ioshua the son of Levi did aske Elias when the Messias would come and where is he he answered at Rome amongst the weake and going thither hee found him If hee was then at Rome doubtlesse he is come and borne already and yee expect him in vaine Iew The Messias is not yet come but he was borne in the time of the destruction of the Temple which the book Haggadoth that is the book of insinuations or denuntiations doth shew Christian If hee was borne in the time of the desolation from which time almost a thousand and five hundred yeares are now past and at this day hee is not yet come when I pray you or how will hee come seeing that it is not allowed in nature for any man to live a thousand and five hundred yeares Iew You know the first men lived a long time and that to the flood as some came almost to the thousandth yeare but Elias and Enoch did live much longer whom God kept alive and who live to this very day so the Messias being borne along time before is yet preserved in life Christian Where therefore and in what place is he at this day is he yet at Rome Iew It may easily bee demonstrated from scripture where he is Consider the first Adam in his first estate was in the earthly paradice but because of his sin he was cast forth from thence as saith the Scripture God sent him out of the garden of pleasure It followes therefore that he who was free from the punishment of Adam should bee in Paradice so our wise men have said in the book of denuntiations Christian I doe not well understand what you would signifie by the word denunciations therefore before you proceed declare that word to mee Iew Know therefore with us are three kinds of books one kind of books we call the 24. which commonly are called the Bible and on these wee beleeve firmely and with a perfect faith because they were written by the Prophets and other godly men to whom the Lord made known his will and did reveal mysteries Another kind is called the Talmud and is an Exposition or explanation o● the precepts of the Law fo● there are in the Law of Moses 613 precepts and all these are explained in the Talmud i● which booke we also beleeve as in an exposition of precepts which are in the hands of our Rabbies who received it from their Fathers and their Fathers received it from the Prophets and they received it from God Thirdly wee have a kinde of books which is called Medras which signifies an inquisition or discussion of matters and we commonly interpret it a common opinion for there what every man thought and what seemed right to him hee wrote down wherefore they which believe these writings do well and he that doth not believe them wrongs not himselfe Some wise men say and have also left it in writing to us that the Messias shall not be borne untill the time of our deliverance is come or shall draw nigh that he may bring us out of that captivity and I rather assent to this opinion than their judgement who say the Messias is borne long agoe namely in the time of the of the desolation of the Temple and we call the mentioned inquisition by another name Haggada that is a denunciation for it is nothing else but a certaine denunciation whereby one man signifies any thing to another Christian Is the Messias alwaies at Rome according to their opinion who thought hee was at Rome Iew Hee is not alwaies at Rome but at that time hee was seene there for Elias said to Rabbi Ioshua the son of Levi that at that time he should find him there and he might be seen for a certaine cause which is signified in Haggadoth but which I meane not to reveale to you nor to any other Christian forasmuch as I know our words are an abomination in your eyes and therefore we write such mysteries in the Tables of our heart Christian Disclose to mee I pray you what he did at Rome or what he will do these and why he will rather goe thither than to another place and do not conceale it from me Iew Because you have so earnestly intreated me I will tell you but see you disclose it not to others for you know how they are wont to deride us when they have heard our secrets Haggada saith the Messias remaines at Rome untill he destroy it as we read concerning Moses our Law-giver who was bred up in the house of Pharoah untill at length he took vengeance of him and drowned all his people in the sea and he came not presently after hee was borne and delivered Israel but after many yeares when the Lord God gave him command then hee came and said to Pharaoh Thus saith the Lord let my people goe that they may serve me So the Messias when the fulnesse of time is come shall come to the Pope by the command of God and shall say to him let my people go that they may serve me then I say the Messias shall be said to have come and till that time he is not said to be come But neither is the Messias called as David the King was not King or anointed the same day wherin he was borne but after that Samuel had anointed him by the commandement of God then was hee anointed King So when Elias hath anointed the Messias by the commandement of God then shal he be the Messias and shall come these things are out of Haggada Christian You tell me strange things but all your words seem to be more like a lie than truth for the Prophets of the Lord have
yet receive him they shall immediately bee delivered and this is the true repentance and the good workes which yee should do to remove the stumbling block out of your hearts and believe in the living God and in the Messias who is sent for salvation both to you and to us then shall be fulfilled this saying of Scripture they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength they shall mount up with wings as Eagles they shall run and not bee weary c. for in the time when the Iewes shall receive unto themselves the Messias of the Lord they shall be called the waiters upon the Lord and he shall give them power and strength and every good thing as from the beginning whereupon it is added then they shal renew their strength they mount up with wings as Eagles and they shall be renewed like an Eagle which if hee live to the tenth yeare hee ascends aloft to the face of the Heaven untill hee approach to the heat of the fire and then casts himselfe through the exceeding heat into the sea and being made naked is renewed and other feathers will grow in him I desire you to heare me againe what Haggai saith concerning the comming of Christ Hag. 2.6 to the 10. For thus saith the Lord of Hosts yet once it is a little while and I will shake the Heavens and the earth and the sea and the dry land and I will shake all Nations and the desire of all Nations shall come and I will fill this house with glory saith the Lord of Hosts the silver and the gold is mine saith the Lord of Hosts The glory of this house shal be greater than of the former saith the Lord of Hosts and in this place will I give peace saith the Lord of Hosts Behold the Prophet saith yet a little while but if the Messias were not yet come the Prophet had spoke false seeing from the time of the Prophet to our times above two thousand yeares are past Hee saith moreover the glory of this latter house shall be greater than of the first but what was that great glory saving that our Messias did appeare in that second Temple doing there signs and wonders such as were never done in the whole world he also taught the people and shewed them the way to eternall life Iew Our Masters do speak otherwaies here namely that the second house is therefore called the greater because it stood 10 years longer for the first house stood 110 yeares but the second stood 120. Christian This answer is empty and foolish for not for so little time the second could bee said to bee greater since that in all other things it was lesse than the first house For as it is said many of the Priests and Levites of the chiefe fathers and Elders of the people who saw the first house when the foundations of the second house were laid and they standing by saw it they wept with a great voice because that second house was as nothing in respect of the first because the vessels of the first house were of gold but of the second they were of brasse And moreover in the second house were wanting ten signs which were done in the first sanctuary to the Fathers as the Rabbies write 1. A woman did not make an aborsement by reason of the smell of the sanctified flesh 2. The holy flesh did not stink or was corrupt 3. A flye was never seene where the sacrifices were slain 4. The High Priest had no nightly uncleannesse in the time of the solemne sacrifice 5. The raine did not quench the fire by the holy place burning continually in the pile of wood 6. The wind did not scatter the pillar of smoak ascending straight towards heaven 7. Mouldines or corruption was not found in the pot of Manna in the two loaves and in the shew bread 8. They stood upright in the Temple and when they bowed downe to worship they had roome enough 9. A Serpent or a scorpion did never hurt in the city Ierusalem 10. Neither did ever any man say to his fellow my place is so straight that I cannot remaine in Ierusalem Moreover five other things were in the first Temple which were not in the second namely these the arke with the propitiatory and the cherubims fire sent from heaven the holy spirit Vrim and Thummim that is certaine holy mysteries on the brest-plate of the chiefe Priest You see now that the second house was not greater than the first because of the 10 yeares I will also add this that your Rabbies speak not the truth when they say that they shall build a third Temple in the Land of Israel and then the Messias shall come seeing the Prophet doth speake plainly here this is the last house shewing as it were by his finger the house which was then built and was then standing that house I say shall be in greater glory than the former But I desire to know from whence you Iewes have it that there shall be a third Temple Iew I will tell you Our wise men of good memorie say that Abraham called that place a mountaine but Isaac called it a field and Iacob a house for because Iacob about night came to that place the holiness and dignity of that place was revealed to him therefore these three fathers did foreshew three Temples to be in Israel two to bee destroyed and one to remaine for ever Abraham called that place a mountaine he saith in the mountaine the Lord shall be seen This is the mountaine of desolation concerning wch they write in the Medras or narration of the Psalmes with my voice will I cry unto the Lord namely when as yet the temple stood firme but when that is destroied from whence doth he answer he adds the Lord hath heard me from his holy mountaine Moreover that the second house was to be destroid they prove from this because Isaac called that place a field as it is written Isaac went forth to pray in the field And Ieremiah saith Zion shall bee plowed as a field Moreover the third Temple which shall never be destroied Iacob called the house of the Lord God and concerning that the Prophet writes the glory of this latter house shall be greater than of the former And againe it is written I will bee to her saith the Lord a wall of fire round about and the glory in the midst of her and Exo. 15.17 The sanctuary of the Lord which thy hands have establisht The two first houses were made with the hands of men therefore they had no stability according to that in vaine doe they labour who build it therefore Iacob called that temple a house that should alwaies endure and not as others a mountaine a field and therefore hee presently subjoines this is no other but the house of God And Ieremiah saith behold the daies come saith the Lord and the
City shall bee built to the Lord c. and at length concluding hee adds it shall not be pluckt up nor thrown down any more for ever And Isa. saith it shall come to passe in the last daies that the mountaine of the Lords house shall bee established in the top of the mountains This is the mountaine of the Lord which Abraham did shew and shall be exalted above the hils alluding to Isaac who called it a field but by that which is added the mountaine of the house of God hee would signifie the house of Iacob of which hee saith in another place Come yee and let us go up to the mountaine of the Lord to the house of the God of Iacob which shall remaine firm Moreover the Scripture in Genesis hath shewed to us these 3 houses when it thrice makes mention of the place where the lodging of Iacob is described in the place of the house of God for you find it there that Iacob came to the place tooke the stones of the place and slept in that place he hapned into that place when the Sun was set whereby was signified the destruction of the first house He gathered the stones of the place being scattered in the destruction of the first Temple and laid them under his head being to rest upon them all night whereby is signified the building of the second Temple which should not continue long but because he slept quietly there a third Temple was also signified in which they being without strength shall againe bee refreshed and shall rest in their beds and every man shall sit under his owne vine and under his owne fig-tree without all feare Christian I can heare you no longer in this businesse you so much wrest your selfe and the Scripture of God and doe sharpen your wit to pervert the word of God for this exposition which you have brought is unmeete and very unfit for the purpose being upheld by no foundation especially forsomuch as the Prophet hath spoke so plainly that latter house as if hee should say that house which you see with your eies that last shall be in greater glory than the first if he had said the latter house and had not added that you might have some appearing reason although that place which you bring concerning the three fathers is not agreeable to our purpose therefore wee finde a first and a second house but we find not a third Iew What you write concerning the first and second house is this if the Israelites had not sinned they should not have had but the first Temple and it should have been worthy to be builded by the hand of God according to that Thy hands have establisht the sanctuary of the Lord but because they sinned they were the cause why that Temple was built by the hands of men as also the second and hence it is that they had no firmnesse according to that they labour in vain who build it and the Lord himselfe shall by himselfe build Ierusalem and fulfill that Scripture thy hands have established the sanctuary of the Lord and that I will be to thee a fiery wal round about thee and for a glory in the midst of thee And then also shal the saying of our Prophet be confirmed the glory of this latter house shall bee greater than of the first and hee hath not said of the second than of the first Christian You multiply words and cite many places of Scripture but beside the purpose if sinnes were the cause of the desolation of the first and second Temple the third Temple which you expect shall never be built because you sinne without ceasing and ye say that because of your sins the Messias defers his comming If this be true this your third Temple shall never be built which you say shall be and shall be built by the hands of God whereof notwithstanding neither the Scripture nor the Prophets doe make mention but yee out of your owne braine have invented this opinion to seduce the simple Iew If the truth doth not stand for us how I pray was that latter house in greater glory than the former Christian I will tell you and I have told you already for this cause the second house was greater than the first because the Lord of the Temple came into his Temple as the Prophet Malachi did Prophecy Behold I send my Angell and hee shall prepare the way before my face and the Lord shall suddenly come to his Temple whom ye seek and the angell of the Testament whom ye desire behold he commeth saith the Lord of Hosts This prophecy without all deniall doth agree with the King Messias who hath come and was seen of men as I shewed above even now Iew I said above there are some amongst our Rabbies who beleeved the Messias was born in the desolation of the second Temple but was not yet come because when hee shall come he shall do great signes and his heart shall bee exalted in the waies of the Lord but hee shall come and command the Pope and all the Kings of the people saying let the people of the Lord go to serve him and then hee shall doe signes before the rebellious neither shall he feare them and shall remaine in the City of Rome untill he destroy it and then he shall bring forth the people of God Christian You have not yet told mee the reason why your Messias doth so long delay and deferre his comming Iew I have told you already that I know not but our Rabbies say that Ierusalem was wasted for no other cause but because they did breake the Sabbath and for the transgression of the Sabbath they were driven out of their own land into banishment and the chiefe good which at this day is found amongst our banished is the keeping of the Sabbath as it is written thus saith the Lord keepe ye judgement and doe justice for my salvation is neer to come and my righteousnesse to bee revealed Blessed is the man that doth this and the sonne of man that laieth hold on it that keepeth the Sabbath from polluting it He saith my salvation is neere to come if you make your waies good departing from evill for repentance withholds the comming of the Messias and if all the Israelites did feare God his salvation would be near to them for redemption depends upon repentance as it is written and the Lord thy God will turne thy captivity if thou wilt turne to the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with thy whole soul And again he saith blessed is the man which doth this namely keeping the Sabbath for that is worthy to be separated from other daies in meat and drinke and more comely apparell and this as to the body but concerning the soule that ought to be emptied of all the businesses of this world Christian I have said above if the people dispers'd in the
To establish the earth that is repaire the desolations of the land of Israel and possesse the heritages lying under desolation all the time of the captivity v. 9. saying to the bound goe forth out of captivity for the Israelites are as prisoners who have not any power to goe out of captivity and power of the Gentiles In like manner the captivity is compared to darknesse ver. 9. Moreover they shal be fed because they shall finde every where so much as shall satisfie them untill they shall come forth out of captivity even in the high places where at another time no pasture is found for cattell because of the desert of water and in places where other travellers can get nothing they shall find all sufficiency v. 10. they shall no where suffer hunger or thirst the Lord providing necessaries for them who shall open in the deserts fountains for them and shall make fruit-bearing trees to grow for their profit and all these things shall happen to them miraculously Also in all the places of deserts by which they shall passe fountains of water shall flow forth Lastly hee saith and I will make all my mountaines a way and my high ways shall be exalted I will make every valley to bee exalted and every mountaine or hill shall bee made low and that wonderfully lest in their journie they should bee compelled to ascend and descend to their wearying And thus according to the litterall meaning the saying also may be figurative namely that by that long journie they shall not bee wearied for the ascent and descent doe exceedingly weary the Traveller therefore God shall give them strength that they may not at all be wearied Moreover the Prophet subjoins I 'll make my mountains and my paths For God shall make new waies through the deserts where before was no way and when he adds again behold these c. He recounts the foure parts of the world into which the Israelites are scattered By the sea understand the west and by the land of Sinim the south for there dwell the Sineans who descended from the sons of Canaan Christian And what shall be after that you shall be gathered together in the Land of Israel will they build Cities and til the ground Iew It is written the sons of strangers shall build thy wals and their Kings shall serve thee because in my anger I smote thee and in my loving kindnesse I had compassion on thee The Nations in thy land shall build thy wals and shall doe thy worke for at that time when my indignation was upon thee thou wert brought into the service of the Nations but in the time of my good pleasure the Nations shall likewise serve thee as also their Kings Thy gates shall be open continually day and night neither shall they bee ever shut that they may bring to thee the riches of the Gentiles and their Kings may also be brought He saith thy gates shall be open because peace shall be in the whole world they shall go by night because of the heat and Kings likewise shall gather themselves together to come before the Messias as servants before their Lord For it is the manner of Kings when they goe on foot or ride on a horse for honour sake to bee conducted by Princes The glory of Lebanon shall come to thee the firre tree the box tree and the pine tree to adorne the place of my sanctuary and I will honour the place of my feet for they did build the sanctuary with the trees of Lebanon which is set directly against the throne of Majesty and when the throne of Majesty is the sea of God it follows that the sanctuary is his footstool Moreover the gate of heaven is above the sanctuary and that is as it were the navill of the world and the land of Israel is put in the middle of the world and Ierusalem in the middle of the Land of Israel and the sanctuary in the middle of Ierusalem and the Temple in the middle of the sanctuary and the Arke in the middle of the Temple and the Temple of holinesse is called the throne of Majesty Againe the Lord saith to Isaiah Behold I will lay thy stones with faire colours and lay thy foundations with saphires and I will make thy windowes of agats and thy gates of carbuncles and all thy borders of pleasant stones and all thy children shall be taught of the Lord Therefore it may be that these words may be fulfilled according to the letter or else they may bee a figure by which is exprest the magnificence and abundance of good things which Israel shall enjoy that if they would they might in those daies build their houses of precious stones Finally all his sonnes shall be taught of the Lord and a man shall no longer teach his neighbour Christian By these words heavenly Ierusalem is figured out or surely by these words is signified the congregation and Church of the faithfull which is the spirituall Ierusalem But I desire you to tell me somewhat more concerning this thing Iew Againe Isaias saith stangers shall stand and feed your sheep and the sons of strangers shall be your husbandmen and vine-dressers But yee shall bee called the Priests of the Lord men shall call you the servants of our God ye shall eate the substance of the Gentiles doe ye understand these words Christian I doe not clearly understand doe you therefore vouchsafe to explaine them more plainly to me Iew Behold strangers shall arise out of their owne place and shall come to serve us but we shall not bee compelled to doe our owne businesses but the sons of strangers shall do them to the end that wee may bee more free to serve God Moreover we shall eat the substance of the Gentiles For besides this that they shall serve us in our land they shall bring us also gifts gold and silver and every good thing out of their owne land and we shall not be compelled to goe out of our own land to exercise merchandise and to get gaine for in our owne land wee shall injoy the good of the world Againe the Prophet saith and their seed shall be known in the Nations and their off-spring in the midst of the people all who shall see them shall know them that they are of the seed which the Lord hath blessed and when we shall go by the Land of the Gentiles to travell abroad or to trafficke although we shall have no need of them wee shall bee knowne by our great honours in which wee shall then be and we shall goe honorably apparelled and men shall say of us these are the children of Israel these are the seed which the Lord hath blessed Likewise our young men shall goe for their pleasure to see the Countries of the Gentiles God also shall renew a good aire so that the Israelites shall live in health many yeares Also he shal give the earth a singular
thy place from the north parts thou and many people with thee and thou shalt come up against my people Israel as a cloud to cover the land ver. 19,20 And in that day there shall be a great shaking in the Land of Israel so that the fishes of the sea and the fowls of the heaven and the beasts of the field and all creeping things that creep upon the earth and all the men that are upon the face of the earth shall shake at my presence and the mountains shall be throwne downe and the steep places shall fall and every wall shall fall to the ground and I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains saith the Lord God every mans sword shall be against his brother Christian These words of the Prophet are wonderful but pursue your discourse and declare what you know Iew It follows And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood and I will rain upon him and his bands and upon the many people that are with him an overflowing raine and great hailstones fire and brimstone Thus wil I magnifie my selfe and sanctifie my selfe and I will bee knowne in the eyes of many Nations and they shall know that I am the Lord Againe saith the Lord behold I am against thee Gog and I will smite thee and punish thee with six plagues and will cause thee to come up from the north parts and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel And I will smite thy bow out of thy left hand and will cause thine arrows to fall out of thy right hand Thou shalt fall upon the mountaines of Israel thou and all thy bands and the people that is with thee I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort and to the beasts of the field to be devoured Behold he saith in that great war shall be a great tumult to which Zachary alludeth who in his prophecy speaketh thus The mountaine of Olives shall be rent also every mans sword shall bee against his brother in that tumult of the Lord neither shall be left of them but the sixt part of the multitude and they shall goe to all Nations to declare the glory of the Lord amongst the Nations that they come not against Ierusalem or hee shall judge them with six judgments namely plague blood overflowing raine hail-stones fire and brimstone But what he saith fishes of the sea and foules of heaven know that is spoken hyperbolically to shew the greatnesse of the tumult which shall be Christian Why understand you that which is spoken of the fishes of the sea c. hyperbolically but expoundest the other part of the prophecy according to the letter and where I pray you is it written that Alexander King of the Greeks shut up the sons of Magog within the mountaines but continue that prophecie as you have begun Iew Againe Ezechiel saith And they that dwell in the Cities of Israel shall goe forth and shall set on fire and burne the weapons both the shield and the bucklers the bows and the arrowes and the hand-staves and the speares and they shal burne them with fire seven yeares they shall take no wood out of the field neither cut downe any out of the Forrests for they shall burne the weapons with fire that is they shall not need to cut downe trees out of the woods but the weapons of warre shall suffice Moreover he saith ver. 11. And it shall come to passe at that day that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel the vally of the passengers on the East of the Sea and it shall stop the noses of the passengers there shall the house of Israel bury them to the end that they may cleanse the land seven moneths the stinke of the dead shall cause those that passe by that way to stop and shut their noses from that very evill stink and the people of the land shall be emploied in the burying of them seven moneths also the Nations who came to worship shall goe forth out of Ierusalem into the vally of Iehosaphat to see the carcasses of the army of Gog and Magog who dealt wickedly against the Lord And though the house of Israel doe bury them that they may cleanse the earth seven months 't is possible that they may see in those seven months the judgement of those wicked men for they shall see their carcasses full of wormes gnawing them and fire burning in them as it is written They shall go forth and see the carcasses of those men who have done perversely against me for their worme shall not dye neither their fire be extinguisht Christian You have hitherto multiplied words of divers things I would have you repeat to me those things in a compend which you have alledged here and above Iew I will doe it and give you 15 answers 5 out of scripture and 5 out of the Caball and 5 by clear demonstration Of the 5 which are brought out of Scripture this is the first It is written that all shall bee gathered together from the foure parts of the world to come to Ierusalem and not a remnant or one of them shall remaine in a strange land and I will gather them to their own land and will leave none of them there any more c. but in the daies of the second Temple they of Israel were not gathered together but as it is written the whole congregation together was forty and two thousand three hundred and threescore and for our comfort it is written that the Israelites shall be gathered together in the day of salvation from these Isles from Elam from Sinear and Homath But in the time of the first house we do not find that one of them was transported to the Isles of the sea and by consequent none was to be brought back from hence Christian There is no truth in your mouth who at your own pleasure doe pervert the Scriptures for the mentioned places of Scripture are to be understood of the gathering together of the Babylonish dispersion concerning which we find it thus written Remember I beseech thee the word that thou commandedst thy servant Moses saying if ye transgresse I will scatter you abroad among the Nations but if ye turn unto me and keep my commandements and do them though there were of you cast out to the utmost parts of the heaven yet will I gather them from thence and will bring them to the place that I have chosen to set my name there But if you object that the Lord said in Ezekiel I will gather them together to their own land and will not leave any of them but in the time of Ezra all the Israelites did not returne to their owne land I answer that is not true for Ezra saith and all the Israelites dwelt in their Cities Moreover that is to be noted which is written in Deuteronomie concerning