Selected quad for the lemma: christian_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
christian_n	call_v	church_n	society_n	1,435	5	9.0715	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A02200	M. Some laid open in his coulers VVherein the indifferent reader may easily see, hovve vvretchedly and loosely he hath handeled the cause against M. Penri. Done by an Oxford man, to his friend in Cambridge.	Throckmorton, Job, 1545-1601.; Greenwood, John, d. 1593, attributed name.; Penry, John, 1559-1593, attributed name.	1589 (1589)	STC 12342; ESTC S118462	88,170	130

of the reyns because the veynes that swel so are commonly fuller of winde then of bloud yet for mine owne part I had rather a great deale attribute all these defects byships out rules of his to that extreame passion and vnrulye affection that quite overswareth his judgment and is able both to mate and to amaze a man yea and soe to blindefolde and bewitch him that he may soone breake his face against a walle if he looke not to it And this sure was the cause as I judge that the verye maine pointe betwixte his aduersatie and him he had not it shoulde seeme any leasure to pervse Eor the question being whether we may be assured to receiue a Sacrament at the Dumbe Ministers hands the very marrow and life of the whole controuersie lying in this word Assured your D. hath faier giuen it the slipp and hath not as far as I see in any on line clauze or sentence thorough out his whole booke so much as looked that way Nay it seemeth to me he is halse afraied of it when he seeth it For in the last place that I before mentioned of th'Edomites where M. Pemi saith that the godly cannot assure themselues c. what saith M. Some to this Not a word I warrant you tush he is among the organs at Pauls or els looking out of his window towardes Lambeth what should he meddle with the thing in question Can not an olde vniuersitie man finde his pen play enough without that And therefore hee threatens kindenesse on his aduersarie and wil needs wring from him whether he will or no. An acknowledgment of a Sacrament among the Edomites and prayeth him to remember it yet some mē thinke this matter of Assurance had bin the most need ful thing of al other for your D. to haue dealt in for the cutting of of al seruple and the satisfing of mens mindes For though a man shoulde make no question of the baptisme deliuered in times past by popish shauelings but satisfiing himselfe with those other comforts that he findeth in the holy excercises of Religion should neuer trouble himselfe to looke back so farre though I say a man should make no question of that which is past yet I se no hurt to desire to be assured in that which is to come which Assurance as M. Penri saith can never be had but by saith in the promises of God and that is the point he stands most vppon in al his writings vz. that in the whole scripture of God there is no promise to bare readers and men without gifts to deliuer and therefore no warrant for vs to receiue any sacrament at their hands All which if M. Some could overthrowe any otherwise then with some such stale jeasts as this why then my grandefather was not christened he might happen work more miracles then he is like to doe For he must thinke that it is neither these consequences nor inconueniences that smel so much of the flesh nor yet the authoritie of Calvin or Beza though wee shoulde admire their gifts and reuerence them as Angells that can settle a mans hart in this case it must be only the word of the living God and nothing els out of which whensoeuer we see any sufficient recorde to warrant this promise wherevppon our faith must be grounded it shall by Gods grace drawe presently from vs a willnig and reuerent subscription to the truth with an open revocation of al that ever hath bin written in that pointe to to the contrary But that there is no such Scripture to be had for money wee gather as by others so specialy by this late treatise of M. Somes wherin I dare be bold to say and I speake it advisedly for I thinke I haue vewed it meetly wel there is not to be found any on text of holy scripture to proue this Assurance which is the maine point in question and then say we whatsoeuer he proueth els there is some reason he should haue his labour for his travell because he hath bene at so vnreasonnable charges to wounde his owne shadow and do his adversarie no hurt Touching that point That the popish Churche is in a sort the Churche of God though an vnsounde Church More then that he croppeth out of Caluine Phillip de Mornay and others whiche was not written in suche strange characters neither but that it might be easily vnderstood before M. Some reuealed it vnto vs there is little I dare warrant you of his owne worth taking vp as they say and that is the thing that we expect in a learned man especially in this florishing age of the Gospell to yeeld vs some sapp and ioyce of his owne that thereby our judgements might be bettered and we also occasioned to praise the giftes and graces of Gods spirit as wel in him as in others Otherwise thus to cloy vs still and ouercloye vs with other mens sayings why alasse you see Th'alabaster man of Sarum can do that for need and that I warrant you so thicke and in so good order that if he coulde but handsomly turne to them without helpe it were euen learning inough for a man of his mediocrity neither might we well require more at his handes with modestie as in one of his bookes the 5. as I remember you shal find that the good soule hath fumbled together little lesse then 60. pages of other mens writings and scarce 4. or 5. whole ones of his owne and is not that a sweete kinde of bookemaking for a mirror to posteritie Now for the reasons that your D. seemeth to bring of his owne I am sorie to thinke they should be so ouer travelled or troubled with a Sciatica that they should not be able to looke a man in the face without limping Will you consider of them a little and tell mee whether they come not towards you for all the world like Cripplegate men as if they had need poore creatures of some Hospitall to relieue them The very name saith he of reformed Churches doth manifestly import that the churches of England Germanie Denmarke c. though popishe and vnsound were yet churches in a sort before or why els shoulde they bee called reformed churches What good lucke was it then that the protestant churches should light on the name of reformed churches at the first For if in liew of this they had happened to haue bene called Christian Churches you may see M. Some had bene in some distresse for one of his braue arguments and so peradventure his book would haue prooued lesse then it is by one 7. or 8. lines at the least For christian Churches could neuer haue done him halfe that pleasure as to haue implyed any necessitie that the church of Rome must needs be in a sort the Church of God before But it is onely this worde reformed that hath stroken it dead Hath not M. Some then good cause to bidd A blessing goe with him whosoeuer he were that in

notably layd open in aboue 200. places in his book to say that He doth more esteeme of one Caluine then of a thousand Penries as if that were any thing to the matter or as if the bare defacing of his aduersarie woulde any whit better his cause in the judgement of the wise or as if the trueth of God did at any time hang vpon the gifts and credit of men But now I remember me this is not altogether the bare judgment of D. Fulke alone nether for his books being as you see authorised and aparantly stamped with that State marke of Seene and alowed we may in that regarde trewly say that looke what is there advisedly set downe as this point that the popish church is no church at al must needes be because it is so often iterated and redoubled and to be proued very neere in 20. places of his works therefore I say looke what is there advisedly set downe and not by error or oversight mistaken is implicite the very judgment and resolution of our Church and State which being true M. Some hath a warme sute of it to keepe such a stirre about the authoritie of Calvine when those that my L. of Cant. saith can teach Calvine are of a contrarie judgment wherevppon I could here once againe for neede if I had olde Dorbel of Sarum lying by mee blunder you out an other proper figure or 2. to troūce M. Some with that shoulde sounde in your eares like a Iewes trumpe after the olde melodious manner Yea my learned D. are you good at that Is the winde in that doore are you still controling of our church state c. But because you are reasonably acquainted with this sweete note already I wil not stand nowe to set it in parts only you may see by this that if a man shoulde chance to tel M. Some to his face that to holde that the Romish church is in a sort the church of God is a grosse and palpable error there were no danger in it at all because he that shoulde so doe hath you see not only the judgement of a famous learned man to backe him but also the flat alowance of the Church of England to beare him out in it For Papistry being as M. Fulke hath proued not only a Scisme error and heresie but an vtter defection and a meere Apostacie compact of all errors what shoulde feare vs to say and avowe that our christian magistrates haue done wel not only with Thrasibulus to fly from the tiranny of Athens but rather with Lot and his family to leaue the whole city of Sodome wherein there was not any free place but al the body one a blister Even soe if the popishe Church be in trueth nothing els but a very lumpe masse and body of Apostacie what a proper nice disstinction were this to say that our Magistrates haue indeede seuered themselues from the corruption of Apostacie but not from Apostacie it selfe as if there were any thing in Apostacie but corruption Therefore if M. Some doe thinke he haue any advantage that way good leaue haue he to make his best of it For we are not afraide to say and say it againe yea and if it were possible to proclaime it in the hearing of al the churches in the world that Q. Elizabeth her godly magistrates haue not only seuered themselues from the plague that pestereth the city but from the very city of Sodome it selfe not onely as he saith from the corruption of the popish Church but from the very popish Church it selfe and the reason is because it is in no sort the Church of God hauing overthrowne the foundation and therefore must needs whether M. Some will or noe be the very Sinagog of Sathan And then say I as before that our magistrates haue done well that which they may justifie by good warrant from Gods worde otherwise they shoulde be apparantlye guiltie of a greuous sin which after my kinde of Logicke I prooue thus 1 All christian Magistrates are bounde vtterly to divorce themselues from that Church not only from the corruptions of that Church but from that very Church and society it selfe which hath made a diuorcement from Christ erreth in the foundation of our faith 2 But the Romish Church as is before sufficiently prooued hath made such a divorcement erreth in the very foundation Ergo. Our Magistrates ought as thanks be to God they haue done vtterly to diuorce themselues from that very Church it selfe therefore neede not M. Somes helpe to cleare them from being Scismatikes Thus you may see M. Somes worthy distinction of our Magistrats not severing themselues from the Church but from the Idolatrie of the Churche c. Is by this meanes quite quashed in peeces For if it were indeed in any sort the Church of God then woulde fall out this strange paradoxe that one and the selfe same bodie of a Church might in a sort be the church of Christ and in a sorte againe the Churche of Antichrist and that might be a peece of Iohn a Bridges diuinitie wel enough for the soundnesse of it Furthermore if it were only but from the staines and corruptions of the popish Church that this our seperation was made as M. Some woulde haue it then belike they and we are both one body of a Church though ours be as much more refined body then theirs But howe can that be when they holde not the same heade and foundation that we doe For one body you knowe must haue but one head otherwise it is a monster They then hauing an other heade then we haue we may safely conclude that they are not of the same body with vs neither doe I see any warrant for a Christian man to seuere himselfe from the bodie of Gods Church in that sort as we haue seuered our selues from Rome for any blemishes or corruptions whatsoeuer For so might out Brownists if they list get themselues a pretty pleadable shelter of defence and tel vs That they doe not forsooth seuere themselues from our congregation as from the City but from the plague that pestereth the citye Not from the common wealth but from the Tirannie that oppresseth the common wealth Not from our Church but from the soule disorders that bleamish our Church c. And if they should thus temper the matter I muze whether M. Some woulde be so curteous to take that for paiment But it is not come to that you see for our Brownists are farre of any such coulorable pretences They goe more roundly to worke with vs then so bash not to tel vs plainly though indeede very wretchedly and falsely That our church is not at al the vizible church of God and for that cause it is that they bear vs in hand they do so single themselues from vs and not for any disorders that might otherwise bleamish or dissigure our Church why shoulde we then more mince it with our papists