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christian_n call_v church_n congregation_n 1,735 5 9.2238 5 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A93884 The second part of the duply to M.S. alias Two brethren. Wherein are maintained the Kings, Parliaments, and all civil magistrates authority about the Church. Subordination of ecclesiasticall judicatories. Refuted the independency of particular congregations. Licentiousnesse of wicked conscience, and toleration of all sorts of most detestable schismes, heresies and religions; as, idolatry, paganisme, turcisme, Judaisme, Arrianisme, Brownisme, anabaptisme, &c. which M.S. maintain in their book. With a brief epitome and refutation of all the whole independent-government. Most humbly submitted to the Kings most excellent Majestie. To the most Honorable Houses of Parliament. The most Reverend and learned Divines of the Assembly. And all the Protestant churches in this island and abroad. By Adam Steuart. Octob. 3. 1644. Imprimatur Ja: Cranford.; Duply to M.S. alias Two brethren. Part 2. Steuart, Adam. 1644 (1644) Wing S5491; Thomason E20_7; ESTC R2880 197,557 205

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heretical_a and_o go_v to_o the_o devil_n but_o i_o answer_v 1._o the_o assumption_n be_v false_a for_o the_o externall_n coactive_a power_n that_o a._n s._n grant_v unto_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n be_v only_o to_o repress_v heretic_n and_o schismatic_n after_o that_o they_o be_v sufficient_o convict_v by_o the_o church_n in_o a_o ordinary_a way_n or_o by_o other_o in_o a_o extraordinary_a way_n when_o the_o church_n be_v negligent_a in_o her_o duty_n 2._o neither_o do_v m._n s._n his_o confirmation_n or_o case_n of_o conscience_n conclude_v any_o thing_n against_o that_o which_o a._n s._n say_v and_o as_o for_o his_o supposition_n either_o that_o conscience_n whereof_o he_o speak_v be_v right_a or_o erroneous_a if_o it_o be_v right_a the_o civil_a magistrate_n shall_v not_o press_v it_o against_o its_o light_n or_o if_o he_o happen_v to_o do_v so_o it_o be_v not_o by_o power_n but_o by_o abuse_n of_o power_n and_o in_o such_o a_o case_n he_o who_o have_v his_o conscience_n well_o inform_v must_v resolve_v himself_o to_o be_v quiet_a in_o case_n the_o civil_a magistrate_n oblige_v he_o not_o to_o be_v actor_n in_o any_o thing_n against_o it_o but_o if_o such_o a_o man_n any_o other_o or_o other_o with_o he_o will_v rise_v up_o within_o the_o kingdom_n or_o come_v from_o foreign_a country_n and_o urge_v their_o religion_n upon_o the_o state_n and_o establish_v it_o without_o permission_n of_o the_o magistrate_n or_o against_o his_o law_n than_o their_o conscience_n can_v be_v right_o for_o wherefore_o shall_v the_o king_n parliament_z and_o state_n be_v rather_o bind_v to_o admit_v such_o man_n religion_n without_o sufficient_a conviction_n than_o they_o to_o admit_v his_o religion_n and_o in_o such_o a_o case_n the_o civil_a magistrate_n so_o long_o as_o such_o person_n as_o urge_v their_o religion_n upon_o he_o convict_v not_o sufficient_o his_o conscience_n may_v with_o a_o good_a conscience_n punish_v they_o severe_o yea_o with_o good_a conscience_n cut_v off_o their_o head_n if_o such_o a_o man_n conscience_n be_v erroneous_a the_o civil_a magistrate_n do_v he_o no_o wrong_n to_o endeavour_v that_o he_o who_o have_v it_o be_v sufficient_o convict_v and_o if_o after_o sufficient_a conviction_n he_o will_v not_o be_v quiet_a especial_o when_o he_o be_v not_o oblige_v to_o be_v actor_n in_o any_o thing_n against_o his_o pretend_a conscience_n but_o will_v still_o trouble_v both_o church_n and_o state_n wherefore_o on_o god_n name_n shall_v he_o not_o be_v punish_v 2._o be_v it_o not_o better_o that_o such_o a_o man_n shall_v perish_v then_o that_o he_o shall_v make_v thousand_o to_o perish_v 3._o ravalliack_n in_o france_n and_o the_o monk_n and_o friar_n that_o kill_v king_n pretend_v evermore_o conscience_n as_o the_o independent_o do_v and_o yet_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n put_v they_o to_o death_n 4._o if_o any_o man_n conscience_n which_o god_n forbid_v shall_v dictate_v he_o to_o kill_v the_o king_n and_o blow_v up_o the_o parliament_n shall_v such_o a_o man_n be_v tolerate_v under_o pretext_n of_o his_o tender_a conscience_n 5._o be_v it_o not_o a_o sin_n to_o have_v a_o erroneous_a conscience_n and_o be_v not_o he_o that_o have_v it_o bind_v to_o reform_v it_o and_o to_o suffer_v for_o it_o in_o case_n he_o reform_v it_o not_o when_o he_o have_v sufficient_a mean_n to_o do_v it_o 6._o but_o must_v every_o man_n that_o do_v ill_a be_v present_o believe_v when_o he_o say_v that_o he_o have_v such_o a_o conscience_n 7._o all_o this_o long_a sermon_n of_o m._n s._n prove_v not_o that_o the_o magistrate_n direct_o and_o per_fw-la se_fw-la but_o rather_o that_o the_o man_n himself_o harden_v his_o own_o conscience_n for_o there_o be_v no_o create_a power_n that_o direct_o per_fw-la se_fw-la and_o physical_o can_v work_v upon_o a_o man_n conscience_n it_o can_v only_o move_v it_o moral_o in_o propound_v of_o object_n to_o it_o or_o in_o reason_v and_o yet_o every_o true_a christian_a have_v a_o sufficient_a power_n to_o resist_v such_o motion_n which_o be_v sufficient_a to_o make_v he_o in-excusable_a 8._o neither_o can_v his_o erroneous_a conscience_n excuse_v he_o unless_o that_o its_o error_n be_v invincible_a antecedent_n and_o he_o no_o way_n the_o cause_n of_o it_o but_o if_o it_o be_v vincible_a concomitant_a or_o subsequent_a and_o he_o himself_o the_o cause_n of_o it_o than_o it_o excuse_v he_o not_o but_o be_v a_o sin_n and_o aggravate_v the_o sin_n that_o proceed_v of_o it_o at_o least_o extensiuè_a if_o not_o intensiuè_v for_o in_o such_o a_o case_n it_o be_v not_o his_o erroneous_a conscience_n that_o be_v the_o cause_n of_o the_o sinful_a action_n of_o his_o will_n but_o his_o sinful_a will_n that_o be_v the_o cause_n of_o his_o erroneous_a conscience_n 9_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n threaten_v per_fw-la se_fw-la and_o direct_o make_v not_o his_o conscience_n erroneous_a but_o find_v it_o such_o 10._o neither_o be_v it_o the_o cause_n that_o he_o go_v against_o it_o for_o whether_o you_o consider_v the_o civil_a magistrate_n intention_n his_o judgement_n or_o the_o execution_n of_o it_o in_o such_o a_o case_n they_o cause_v no_o ill_a but_o good_a for_o his_o intention_n be_v only_o that_o they_o be_v gain_v to_o christ_n and_o that_o they_o seduce_v not_o other_o his_o judgement_n condemn_v only_o their_o opinion_n and_o command_v a_o punishment_n answerable_a to_o their_o sin_n whereby_o only_o they_o be_v hinder_v to_o continue_v in_o their_o heresy_n or_o schism_n or_o to_o seduce_v other_o no_o more_o do_v the_o execution_n of_o his_o judgement_n ergo._n 11._o and_o i_o pray_v this_o new_a casuist_n to_o tell_v i_o whether_o in_o some_o case_n it_o be_v not_o a_o lesser_a sin_n for_o a_o man_n to_o go_v against_o his_o erroneous_a conscience_n then_o to_o follow_v its_o dictate_v whether_o it_o be_v not_o better_o for_o he_o to_o sit_v at_o home_n against_o the_o dictate_v of_o his_o conscience_n then_o to_o go_v to_o a_o pagan_a church_n and_o there_o to_o adore_v a_o crocodile_n or_o a_o toad_n according_a to_o the_o dictate_v of_o it_o so_o we_o see_v how_o licentious_a and_o detestable_a this_o conscience_n be_v that_o independent_o plead_v so_o much_o for_o that_o think_v that_o it_o can_v sufficient_o enjoy_v its_o liberty_n unless_o that_o all_o schismatic_n heretic_n jew_n mahometans_n and_o idolater_n have_v a_o free_a liberty_n of_o their_o erroneous_a conscience_n to_o adore_v a_o thousand_o god_n yea_o a_o thousand_o devil_n a_o jupiter_n a_o bacchus_n a_o venus_n a_o blind_a fortuna_fw-la and_o to_o preach_v such_o abomination_n and_o that_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n power_n be_v ever_o curtale_v or_o rather_o altogether_o take_v away_o in_o matter_n in_o religion_n i_o will_v not_o call_v this_o a_o madness_n but_o i_o be_o well_o assure_v that_o many_o be_v recommend_v to_o the_o church_n prayer_n that_o be_v not_o half_a so_o sick_a either_o in_o soul_n or_o body_n as_o these_o man_n be_v in_o their_o conscience_n wherefore_o all_o that_o i_o have_v more_o to_o say_v unto_o they_o shall_v be_v only_o this_o the_o lord_n have_v mercy_n upon_o they_o christian_n reader_n have_v be_v desire_v by_o some_o friend_n to_o give_v a_o short_a discourse_n of_o the_o independent_a government_n i_o be_o resolve_v to_o present_v thou_o with_o this_o follow_a epitome_n which_o sundry_a have_v oftentimes_o require_v of_o i_o the_o independent_a church_n be_v so_o call_v because_o that_o no_o particular_a congregation_n among_o they_o how_o small_a how_o heretical_a and_o vicious_a soever_o it_o be_v will_v depend_v upon_o or_o submit_v to_o the_o judgement_n of_o any_o other_o church_n yea_o not_o to_o that_o of_o all_o the_o church_n of_o the_o world_n how_o orthodox_n and_o holy_a and_o how_o true_a and_o just_a soever_o their_o judgement_n be_v they_o define_v it_o coetus_fw-la fidelium_fw-la a_o company_n of_o believer_n meet_v in_o one_o place_n every_o lord_n day_n for_o the_o administration_n of_o the_o holy_a ordinance_n of_o god_n to_o public_a edification_n so_o according_a to_o this_o definition_n neither_o the_o catholic_a church_n which_o we_o believe_v in_o the_o creed_n nor_o any_o nationall_n church_n can_v be_v a_o true_a church_n since_o they_o can_v meet_v together_o every_o lord_n day_n in_o one_o place_n in_o the_o efficient_a cause_n of_o the_o church_n i_o see_v no_o great_a difference_n betwixt_o we_o and_o they_o save_v only_o this_o that_o they_o hold_v it_o necessary_a to_o the_o constitution_n of_o a_o church_n and_o of_o every_o member_n thereof_o that_o they_o all_o join_v in_o a_o particular_a church-covenant_n as_o they_o call_v it_o different_a from_o that_o of_o grace_n reveal_v in_o scripture_n wherein_o they_o all_o swear_v to_o live_v in_o the_o faith_n and_o in_o subjection_n to_o all_o the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n cleave_v one_o to_o another_o as_o member_n
ecclesiastical_a person_n can_v preach_v or_o excommunicate_v neither_o can_v the_o civil_a magistrate_n or_o any_o other_o exercise_v such_o act_n or_o extrinsecall_v i._n e._n about_o the_o church_n but_o not_o in_o the_o church_n in_o quality_n of_o a_o church_n as_o when_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n make_v law_n concern_v the_o church_n in_o confirm_v or_o ratify_v her_o law_n in_o make_v they_o to_o be_v receive_v as_o well_o in_o the_o state_n as_o in_o the_o church_n so_o justinian_n declare_v that_o according_a to_o the_o evangelicall_n doctrine_n and_o apostolical_a discipline_n all_o man_n shall_v be_v call_v christian_n otherways_o that_o they_o shall_v be_v declare_v distract_v and_o infamous_a person_n and_o that_o they_o that_o be_v punish_v spiritual_o by_o the_o church_n shall_v afterward_o be_v punish_v civil_o by_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n as_o we_o may_v see_v in_o the_o first_o book_n of_o the_o codex_fw-la do_fw-mi de_fw-fr summa_fw-la trinitate_fw-la do_fw-mi de_fw-fr sacrosanctis_fw-la ecclesiis_fw-la do_fw-mi de_fw-fr episc_n &_o cler._n &_o orphanotroph_n and_o through_o all_o the_o first_o thirteen_o title_n of_o that_o book_n and_o elsewhere_o in_o the_o civil_a law_n but_o this_o power_n to_o judge_v command_n and_o punish_v be_v not_o ecclesiastical_a but_o civil_a chap._n ii_o the_o first_o conclusion_n about_o the_o intrinsical_a power_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n in_o the_o church_n this_o be_v presuppose_v i_o put_v my_o first_o conclusion_n thus_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n qua_fw-la talis_fw-la or_o under_o the_o notion_n of_o a_o civil_a magistrate_n have_v no_o intrinsical_a power_n in_o the_o church_n 1._o because_o the_o scripture_n which_o independent_o acknowledge_v for_o the_o only_a rule_n of_o church-government_n contain_v no_o such_o thing_n 2._o because_o his_o authority_n qua_fw-la talis_fw-la be_v not_o ecclesiastical_a but_o political_a or_o civil_a ergo_fw-la qua_fw-la talis_fw-la it_o be_v not_o intrinsical_v to_o the_o church_n 3._o because_o such_o must_v be_v his_o power_n or_o authority_n in_o the_o church_n as_o the_o act_n thereof_o at_o least_o in_o genere_fw-la morum_fw-la or_o moral_o but_o the_o act_n of_o his_o power_n as_o to_o punish_v refractorie_a person_n in_o a_o civil_a way_n by_o imprisonment_n pecuniary_a mulct_n etc._n etc._n be_v not_o intrinsical_v yea_o no_o way_n ecclesiastical_a ergo_fw-la no_o more_o be_v his_o power_n or_o authority_n 4._o because_o the_o authority_n that_o be_v intrinsical_v unto_o the_o church_n must_v be_v exercise_v by_o ecclesiastical_a person_n but_o so_o be_v not_o that_o of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n the_o minor_a be_v certain_a because_o it_o be_v only_o to_o be_v exercise_v by_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n or_o his_o officer_n and_o not_o by_o elder_n of_o the_o church_n as_o when_o he_o imprison_v any_o man_n for_o his_o disobedience_n unto_o the_o church_n or_o put_v apostate_n or_o some_o abominable_a heretic_n to_o death_n as_o servet_fw-la etc._n etc._n and_o it_o be_v a_o certain_a maxim_n that_o ecclesia_fw-la nescit_fw-la sanguinem_fw-la as_o may_v appear_v by_o sundry_a canon_n of_o the_o canon_n law_n ergo_fw-la the_o major_n be_v indubitable_a because_o the_o power_n and_o the_o exercise_n thereof_o belong_v unto_o the_o same_o sort_n of_o person_n 5._o because_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n himself_o qua_fw-la talis_fw-la be_v no_o ecclesiastical_a person_n or_o intrinsical_v unto_o the_o church_n since_o he_o may_v be_v a_o pagan_a how_o then_o can_v his_o authority_n be_v ecclesiastical_a or_o intrinsical_v unto_o the_o church_n since_o the_o authority_n of_o a_o person_n out_o of_o the_o church_n qua_fw-la talis_fw-la must_v be_v extrinsecall_v or_o out_o of_o the_o church_n 6._o because_o the_o object_n of_o the_o intrinsical_a power_n of_o the_o church_n be_v principal_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d thing_n that_o be_v spiritual_a or_o for_o spiritual_a end_n but_o so_o be_v not_o that_o of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n since_o oftentimes_o he_o know_v he_o not_o as_o when_o he_o be_v a_o turk_n or_o a_o pagan_a 7._o because_o this_o opinion_n confound_v the_o kingdom_n of_o this_o world_n with_o that_o of_o christ_n in_o grant_v unto_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n the_o intrinsical_a power_n of_o the_o church_n which_o christ_n only_o grant_v unto_o the_o minister_n thereof_o viz._n unto_o preacher_n teacher_n and_o rule_v elder_n but_o so_o shall_v it_o not_o be_v for_o christ_n distinguish_v these_o power_n when_o he_o command_v to_o give_v unto_o god_n that_o which_o be_v god_n and_o unto_o caesar_n that_o which_o be_v caesar_n mat._n 22.21_o 8._o because_o the_o immediate_a rule_n of_o the_o intrinsical_a power_n of_o the_o church_n be_v only_a god_n word_n formal_o by_o consequence_n or_o presupposition_n so_o be_v it_o not_o in_o respect_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n power_n which_o be_v immediate_o and_o formal_o rule_v by_o the_o law_n of_o the_o state_n ergo_fw-la the_o civil_a magistrate_n power_n be_v not_o intrinsical_v unto_o the_o church_n 9_o the_o intrinsical_a power_n of_o the_o church_n be_v only_o ministerial_a no_o way_n despoticall_a imperial_a regal_a majestical_a or_o majesty_n so_o be_v not_o that_o of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n in_o take_v the_o word_n in_o a_o large_a signification_n as_o it_o be_v sometime_o for_o the_o supreme_a and_o subaltern_a magistrate_n for_o the_o power_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n at_o least_o in_o the_o supreme_a or_o prince_n be_v not_o ministerial_a but_o sometime_o despoticall_a or_o lordly_a sometime_o imperial_a sometime_o regal_a sometime_o aristocratical_a sometime_o democraticall_a and_o evermore_o majestical_a ergo_fw-la the_o assumption_n be_v certain_a so_o be_v the_o proposition_n for_o they_o who_o have_v this_o intrinsical_v power_n in_o the_o church_n be_v only_o christ_n minister_n and_o servant_n 10._o because_o as_o we_o say_v heretofore_o not_o only_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n sometime_o be_v not_o a_o member_n of_o the_o true_a church_n of_o christ_n but_o be_v a_o member_n of_o the_o antichristian_a church_n yea_o sometime_o not_o so_o much_o as_o christen_v or_o a_o christian_a by_o name_n as_o the_o tuck_n the_o emperor_n the_o french_a king_n and_o some_o other_o who_o by_o maxim_n of_o state_n have_v make_v some_o edict_n in_o favour_n of_o true_a christian_n for_o the_o exercise_n of_o their_o religion_n but_o how_o shall_v he_o that_o be_v not_o in_o the_o church_n that_o be_v no_o true_a christian_n yea_o that_o be_v a_o antichristian_a christian_a yea_o not_o so_o much_o as_o a_o christian_a by_o name_n but_o a_o open_a enemy_n to_o the_o name_n of_o christ_n as_o herod_n nero_n dioclesian_n julian_n the_o apostate_n that_o be_v external_a unto_o the_o church_n have_v any_o intrinsical_v power_n in_o the_o church_n 11._o because_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n have_v no_o intrinsical_a power_n either_o directive_n or_o executive_a in_o common_a trade_n as_o that_o of_o brewer_n shoemaker_n carter_n waterman_n etc._n etc._n who_o trade_n be_v within_o the_o reach_n of_o nature_n and_o which_o he_o direct_v only_o extrinsecally_a neither_o know_v the_o king_n how_o to_o brew_v how_o to_o make_v shoe_n etc._n etc._n neither_o can_v he_o brew_v or_o make_v shoe_n how_o much_o less_o than_o be_v it_o needful_a that_o he_o have_v any_o intern_a power_n either_o directive_n or_o executive_a in_o ecclesiastical_a matter_n which_o be_v altogether_o spiritual_a and_o supernatural_a above_o the_o reach_n of_o all_o natural_a prudence_n and_o quite_o out_o of_o the_o sphere_n of_o his_o activity_n 12._o by_o the_o same_o reason_n the_o civil_a magistrate_n shall_v have_v a_o internal_a power_n both_o directive_n and_o executive_a over_o all_o economical_a society_n under_o he_o viz._n over_o the_o husband_n and_o the_o wife_n the_o father_n and_o the_o son_n the_o master_n and_o the_o servant_n he_o may_v direct_v they_o in_o their_o duty_n and_o execute_v their_o charge_n intrinsical_o and_o so_o do_v the_o duty_n of_o a_o husband_n of_o a_o father_n and_o master_n in_o all_o thing_n in_o every_o man_n family_n which_o can_v not_o but_o be_v find_v very_o absurd_a impious_a and_o altogether_o intolerable_a heretofore_o the_o independent_o do_v as_o much_o as_o any_o man_n complain_v of_o such_o a_o absolute_a and_o independent_a power_n in_o the_o king_n how_o then_o be_v it_o that_o now_o they_o grant_v it_o 13._o if_o such_o a_o intrinsical_a power_n in_o ecclesiastical_a matter_n be_v a_o part_n of_o all_o civil_a magistrate_n power_n then_o the_o magistrate_n who_o have_v it_o not_o be_v not_o complete_a and_o perfect_a magistrate_n since_o they_o want_v one_o of_o the_o principal_a part_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n power_n viz._n the_o intrinsical_n directive_n and_o executive_a power_n in_o ecclesiastical_a matter_n but_o the_o consequent_a be_v untrue_a yea_o criminal_a and_o traitorous_a for_o many_o pagan_n antichristian_n yea_o in_o concreto_fw-la and_o in_o sensu_fw-la composito_fw-la have_v a_o full_a