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christian_n call_v church_n congregation_n 1,735 5 9.2238 5 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A93091 A treatise of liturgies, power of the keyes, and of matter of the visible church. In answer to the reverend servant of Christ, Mr. John Ball. By Thomas Shephard, sometimes fellow of Emanuel-Colledge in Cambridge, and late pastour of Cambridge in New-England. Shepard, Thomas, 1605-1649. 1652 (1652) Wing S3148; Thomason E681_17; ESTC R206794 175,099 213

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mean_n of_o worship_n which_o those_o priest_n never_o be_v reply_n on_o the_o contrary_a if_o you_o will_v extend_v this_o text_n to_o all_o unworthy_a minister_n of_o what_o sort_n soever_o who_o the_o word_n of_o god_n condemn_v as_o not_o approve_a minister_n of_o god_n etc._n etc._n answ_n we_o intend_v no_o other_o sort_n then_o such_o as_o we_o have_v in_o hand_n the_o unable_a and_o ungodly_a idol_n priest_n of_o england_n and_o therefore_o this_o discourse_n concern_v we_o not_o for_o we_o free_o confess_v that_o it_o be_v lawful_a in_o divers_a case_n at_o least_o for_o a_o time_n to_o communicate_v with_o such_o unworthy_a minister_n as_o may_v be_v contain_v in_o your_o description_n but_o that_o people_n must_v and_o aught_o to_o join_v with_o such_o in_o the_o worship_n of_o god_n and_o sin_n if_o they_o separate_v from_o the_o ordinance_n as_o you_o say_v the_o scripture_n allege_v teach_v not_o this_o so_o evident_o that_o we_o can_v see_v as_o 1_o sam._n 2._o 12_o 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and_o pollute_v it_o the_o text_n in_o malach._n 1._o be_v misapply_v and_o we_o desire_v such_o as_o allege_v this_o passage_n against_o simple_a presence_n at_o the_o prayer_n of_o the_o liturgy_n advise_o to_o consider_v whether_o god_n allow_v they_o to_o make_v such_o application_n of_o his_o truth_n which_o we_o much_o doubt_v of_o to_o say_v no_o more_o answ_n that_o people_n join_v in_o the_o whole_a liturgy_n voluntary_o offer_v up_o the_o same_o we_o think_v have_v be_v no_o question_n if_o any_o join_v by_o fear_n and_o compulsion_n though_o the_o will_n in_o this_o case_n be_v not_o force_v for_o mixta_fw-la actio_fw-la be_v voluntaria_fw-la we_o think_v that_o will_v not_o ease_v but_o aggravate_v the_o evil_a argue_v a_o reluctancy_n or_o doubtfulness_n at_o least_o in_o his_o conscience_n and_o so_o what_o he_o do_v be_v not_o of_o faith_n and_o therefore_o sin_n rom._n 14._o 2ly_n what_o you_o say_v of_o the_o faithful_a here_o may_v be_v say_v for_o the_o faithful_a 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not_o the_o english_a church_n out_o of_o the_o number_n and_o herein_o we_o deal_v no_o otherwise_o with_o they_o then_o with_o the_o member_n of_o our_o own_o church_n reply_n all_o possible_a care_n to_o keep_v the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n from_o contempt_n we_o allow_v and_o commend_v so_o you_o deny_v not_o church_n privilege_n to_o who_o they_o be_v due_a nor_o the_o name_n of_o church_n to_o such_o as_o god_n have_v bless_v with_o mean_n of_o grace_n and_o have_v receive_v the_o table_n and_o seal_n and_o enter_v covenant_n with_o god_n your_o liberty_n to_o receive_v such_o satisfaction_n as_o be_v meet_v be_v not_o question_v nor_o whether_o you_o be_v to_o keep_v the_o bond_n of_o the_o spirit_n inviolable_a according_a to_o order_n but_o whether_o this_o be_v according_a too_o order_n to_o exclude_v from_o the_o sacrament_n true_a visible_a christian_n or_o know_v recommend_v christian_n former_o member_n of_o visible_a church_n among_o we_o and_o their_o child_n and_o to_o 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church_n in_o which_o and_o unto_o which_o by_o the_o officer_n thereof_o all_o these_o outward_a visible_a privilege_n and_o mean_n of_o grace_n be_v to_o be_v dispense_v and_o immediate_o enjoy_v of_o the_o faithful_a or_o whether_o not_o the_o remote_a right_n but_o the_o immediate_a fruition_n and_o administration_n of_o all_o these_o ordinance_n by_o the_o institution_n of_o christ_n be_v give_v to_o particular_a visible_a church_n and_o sure_o to_o who_o one_o of_o these_o be_v give_v all_o be_v give_v for_o there_o be_v the_o same_o nature_n reason_n and_o use_v of_o all_o ministry_n of_o the_o word_n seal_n discipline_n all_o be_v outward_a ordinance_n privilege_n mean_n of_o grace_n belong_v to_o the_o visible_a church_n where_o christ_n have_v give_v one_o he_o have_v give_v all_o but_o we_o must_v confess_v however_o you_o call_v this_o a_o new_a church_n way_n it_o be_v new_a to_o we_o to_o read_v so_o much_o of_o late_a of_o such_o a_o catholic_n church_n to_o which_o administration_n of_o seal_n censure_n etc._n etc._n belong_v we_o be_v yet_o of_o the_o opinion_n of_o baynes_n parker_n and_o cartwright_n etc._n etc._n that_o have_v against_o papist_n and_o prelate_n maintain_v that_o in_o the_o new_a testament_n there_o be_v no_o institute_v catholic_n national_n or_o provincial_n church_n but_o only_o the_o church_n of_o a_o particular_a congregation_n both_o for_o the_o reason_n allege_v in_o our_o answer_n as_o also_o for_o the_o impossibility_n thereof_o in_o the_o day_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n when_o the_o lord_n jesus_n send_v his_o apostle_n into_o all_o the_o world_n therefore_o impossible_a both_o in_o regard_n of_o distance_n of_o place_n and_o variety_n of_o language_n almost_o ever_o to_o meet_v in_o one_o so_o much_o as_o by_o representation_n and_o that_o not_o only_o by_o accident_n as_o may_v befall_v a_o particular_a church_n by_o sickness_n persecution_n etc._n etc._n
covenant_n with_o god_n be_v the_o true_a church_n of_o god_n for_o what_o be_v it_o to_o be_v the_o flock_n people_n or_o sheep_n of_o god_n but_o to_o be_v the_o church_n of_o god_n and_o where_o there_o be_v a_o covenant_n there_o be_v the_o people_n of_o god_n etc._n etc._n answ_n this_o assertion_n seem_v to_o we_o very_o strange_a to_o fall_v from_o that_o reverend_a and_o learned_a author_n be_v a_o foundation_n of_o many_o inconvenience_n and_o absurdity_n and_o tend_v to_o overthrow_v the_o order_n of_o christ_n in_o his_o visible_a church_n for_o first_o if_o this_o be_v so_o that_o every_o society_n in_o covenant_n with_o god_n be_v the_o church_n of_o god_n than_o man_n may_v set_v up_o as_o many_o form_n of_o visible_a church_n as_o they_o please_v if_o the_o people_n be_v in_o covenant_n with_o god_n visible_o at_o least_o the_o archdeacon_n with_o his_o commissary_n priest_n churchwarden_n etc._n etc._n be_v in_o covenant_n with_o god_n be_v a_o true_a church_n so_o the_o diocesan_n bishop_n in_o his_o cathedral_n with_o his_o clergy_n or_o any_o such_o assembly_n be_v the_o church_n of_o god_n or_o what_o other_o form-soev_a man_n will_v devise_v may_v go_v for_o the_o church_n of_o god_n and_o to_o they_o belong_v the_o seal_n and_o you_o may_v as_o well_o say_v discipline_n and_o all_o ordinance_n of_o god_n if_o they_o be_v the_o true_a church_n second_o upon_o this_o ground_n every_o company_n of_o godly_a christian_o in_o covenant_n with_o god_n meet_v in_o fast_v prayer_n etc._n etc._n be_v the_o true_a church_n of_o god_n and_o to_o they_o as_o such_o the_o seal_n belong_v and_o send_v for_o a_o true_a minister_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n they_o may_v have_v baptism_n and_o the_o lords-supper_n administer_v and_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n discipline_n also_o yea_o if_o but_o two_o or_o three_o as_o you_o say_v be_v in_o covenant_n with_o god_n meet_v together_o in_o their_o travail_n at_o a_o inn_n etc._n etc._n be_v the_o church_n of_o god_n especial_o every_o christian_a family_n be_v the_o church_n for_o they_o profess_v the_o entire_a faith_n join_v daily_o in_o prayer_n and_o thanksgiving_n receive_v the_o truth_n of_o god_n to_o dwell_v among_o they_o be_v in_o some_o measure_n obedient_a unto_o the_o command_v of_o god_n and_o in_o covenant_n with_o god_n and_o therefore_o be_v the_o church_n of_o god_n why_o not_o call_v for_o a_o minister_n and_o have_v seal_n ordinary_o dispense_v to_o they_o three_o upon_o this_o ground_n a_o company_n of_o christian_a woman_n in_o covenant_n with_o god_n be_v a_o church_n to_o who_o the_o seal_n belong_v and_o who_o see_v not_o how_o all_o orderly_a dispensation_n of_o god_n ordinance_n and_o the_o whole_a order_n of_o visible_a church_n in_o the_o gospel_n will_v be_v overturn_v by_o this_o assertion_n we_o very_o believe_v this_o author_n be_v far_o from_o admit_v these_o thing_n but_o the_o position_n itself_o will_v unavoidable_o enforce_v the_o same_o neither_o can_v we_o impute_v this_o assertion_n to_o any_o inconsiderateness_n through_o heat_n of_o disputation_n for_o if_o any_o shall_v maintain_v the_o personal_a covenant_n of_o people_n with_o god_n to_o be_v sufficient_a to_o constitute_v visible_a church_n and_o not_o admit_v a_o necessity_n of_o a_o more_o public_a or_o general_a covenant_n explicit_a or_o implicit_a whereby_o a_o company_n of_o christian_n be_v make_v one_o people_n join_v in_o one_o congregation_n to_o worship_n god_n in_o his_o holy_a ordinance_n and_o walk_v together_o in_o his_o way_n they_o must_v of_o necessity_n acknowledge_v every_o society_n in_o covenant_n with_o god_n to_o be_v a_o church_n as_o here_o be_v say_v and_o therefore_o admit_v all_o form_n of_o church_n and_o all_o family_n etc._n etc._n to_o be_v church_n and_o so_o bring_v in_o the_o confusion_n object_v which_o we_o desire_v may_v well_o be_v consider_v all_o your_o argument_n stand_v upon_o that_o ground_n of_o personal_a covenant_n with_o god_n which_o be_v too_o weak_a to_o bear_v up_o that_o conclusion_n to_o make_v all_o such_o visible_a church_n to_o who_o the_o seal_v belong_v as_o the_o absurd_a consequence_n thereof_o show_v these_o reason_n and_o the_o scripture_n in_o the_o margin_n some_o of_o they_o will_v prove_v they_o fit_a matter_n for_o visible_a church_n and_o that_o they_o have_v a_o remote_a right_n unto_o the_o seal_n of_o that_o covenant_n which_o we_o grant_v but_o they_o will_v not_o prove_v every_o society_n of_o such_o to_o be_v true_a church_n have_v immediate_a right_n to_o have_v the_o seal_v dispense_v unto_o they_o reply_n five_o if_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o the_o seal_n be_v the_o prerogative_n of_o particular_a visible_a church_n know_v and_o approve_a christian_n among_o we_o be_v member_n of_o such_o church_n and_o so_o to_o be_v esteem_v among_o you_o etc._n etc._n and_o every_o visible_a believer_n profess_v the_o pure_a entire_a faith_n admit_v to_o the_o right_n and_o lawful_a participation_n of_o the_o sacrament_n be_v a_o visible_a member_n of_o the_o true_a church_n if_o he_o have_v neither_o renounce_v the_o society_n nor_o deserve_v just_o to_o be_v cast_v out_o by_o excommunication_n or_o church_n censure_n etc._n etc._n and_o if_o know_v and_o approve_a christian_n member_n of_o our_o church_n come_v to_o new-england_n shall_v desire_v to_o have_v their_o child_n baptize_v or_o themselves_o admit_v to_o the_o lords-supper_n before_o they_o be_v set_v member_n among_o you_o we_o desire_v to_o know_v upon_o what_o ground_n from_o god_n you_o can_v deny_v they_o if_o you_o acknowledge_v our_o church_n ministry_n and_o sacrament_n to_o be_v true_a as_o you_o profess_v and_o the_o member_n of_o the_o church_n be_v know_v and_o approve_v orderly_o recommend_v unto_o you_o answ_n we_o grant_v all_o this_o here_o express_v for_o the_o substance_n however_o some_o reason_n speak_v unto_o before_o intermix_v we_o pass_v over_o and_o to_o your_o question_n we_o frame_v a_o ready_a answer_n from_o your_o own_o word_n for_o first_o you_o grant_v that_o if_o such_o member_n have_v renounce_v that_o society_n wherein_o they_o do_v partake_v of_o the_o seal_n they_o be_v not_o to_o be_v repute_v member_n of_o it_o and_o this_o be_v general_o the_o case_n of_o all_o approve_a christian_n among_o we_o who_o though_o they_o do_v not_o so_o renounce_v the_o church_n that_o bear_v they_o and_o give_v they_o suck_v as_o no_o true_a church_n yet_o see_v they_o be_v grow_v so_o corrupt_a many_o way_n as_o they_o can_v neither_o enjoy_v some_o needful_a ordinance_n nor_o partake_v in_o those_o they_o have_v without_o sin_n they_o have_v therefore_o renounce_v and_o forsake_v all_o further_a communion_n with_o they_o and_o membership_n in_o they_o and_o so_o by_o your_o own_o grant_n neither_o themselves_o nor_o the_o church_n here_o can_v take_v they_o as_o member_n of_o your_o church_n to_o receive_v they_o under_o that_o respect_n second_o if_o any_o yet_o have_v not_o so_o far_o renounce_v those_o church_n they_o belong_v unto_o yet_o they_o be_v not_o orderly_o recommend_v unto_o we_o which_o also_o you_o grant_v aught_o to_o be_v and_o indeed_o otherwise_o we_o may_v oft_o receive_v person_n just_o excommunicate_a or_o such_o as_o be_v no_o member_n of_o church_n any_o where_o or_o otherwise_o under_o great_a offence_n as_o frequent_a example_n among_o ourselves_o do_v show_v though_o the_o church_n may_v think_v well_o of_o such_o as_o offer_v themselves_o what_o else_o follow_v in_o this_o paragraph_n be_v the_o same_o in_o substance_n and_o much_o of_o it_o in_o word_n also_o that_o we_o have_v answer_v before_o and_o therefore_o we_o pass_v it_o over_o and_o that_o of_o the_o jewish_a church_n we_o shall_v speak_v to_o after_o as_o for_o that_o you_o desire_v leave_v to_o set_v down_o and_o we_o to_o examine_v what_o may_v be_v object_v against_o that_o we_o affirm_v that_o the_o distinct_a church_n name_v in_o the_o new_a testament_n be_v congregationall_a society_n we_o shall_v consider_v as_o follow_v reply_v the_o number_n of_o believer_n be_v so_o great_a in_o some_o city_n that_o they_o can_v not_o convenient_o meet_v in_o one_o place_n as_o one_o assembly_n to_o worship_n god_n according_a to_o his_o will_n and_o for_o their_o edify_n as_o in_o samaria_n jerusalem_n antioch_n ephesus_n answ_n although_o we_o expect_v not_o objection_n in_o this_o case_n against_o the_o currant_n tenent_n of_o our_o godly_a reformer_n baine_n parker_n etc._n etc._n with_o who_o we_o join_v and_o we_o may_v refer_v you_o to_o they_o for_o answer_v to_o this_o beat_a objection_n of_o the_o prelate_n yet_o we_o be_v not_o unwilling_a to_o examine_v what_o be_v say_v in_o this_o digression_n the_o argument_n stand_v thus_o if_o the_o number_n of_o believer_n be_v so_o great_a in_o some_o city_n as_o can_v not_o meet_v in_o
one_o assembly_n to_o edification_n then_o there_o be_v some_o other_o form_n of_o a_o church_n beside_o congregationall_a but_o so_o it_o be_v in_o samaria_n &c_n &c_n answ_n we_o deny_v the_o consequence_n for_o when_o they_o grow_v to_o so_o great_a a_o number_n they_o may_v fall_v into_o more_o congregationall_a church_n and_o so_o no_o other_o form_n arise_v from_o the_o multitude_n but_o we_o suppose_v you_o mean_v of_o such_o a_o multitude_n as_o be_v call_v a_o church_n and_o therefore_o to_o answer_v to_o your_o assumption_n we_o deny_v that_o any_o such_o multitude_n of_o believer_n as_o be_v here_o call_v a_o church_n be_v so_o great_a as_o can_v not_o meet_v to_o edification_n and_o first_o concern_v samaria_n reply_n that_o there_o be_v a_o church_n gather_v in_o samaria_n will_v not_o be_v deny_v for_o they_o receive_v the_o word_n and_o be_v baptize_v but_o that_o the_o church_n in_o that_o city_n be_v only_o a_o congregationall_a assembly_n be_v more_o than_o can_v probable_o be_v conclude_v answ_n we_o grant_v a_o church_n or_o church_n be_v gather_v in_o samaria_n and_o we_o accept_v your_o reason_n as_o good_a because_o they_o receive_v the_o word_n and_o be_v baptize_v where_o by_o the_o way_n you_o grant_v what_o we_o plead_v for_o before_o that_o the_o apostle_n gather_v church_n when_o they_o baptize_v they_o but_o that_o there_o be_v but_o one_o congregationall_a assembly_n lie_v not_o in_o we_o to_o prove_v until_o you_o prove_v that_o all_o the_o believer_n be_v call_v a_o church_n or_o one_o church_n which_o do_v not_o appear_v in_o the_o whole_a story_n act_v 8._o nor_o any_o other_o where_o that_o we_o can_v find_v and_o it_o be_v very_o probable_a that_o as_o philip_n convert_v and_o baptize_v so_o great_a a_o multitude_n at_o several_a time_n and_o gather_v they_o into_o the_o church_n or_o church_n as_o he_o baptize_v they_o so_o he_o may_v gather_v several_a church_n as_o well_o as_o one_o see_v that_o none_o doubt_v but_o that_o congregationall_a church_n be_v a_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n what_o ever_o man_n contend_v for_o beside_o and_o therefore_o be_v the_o number_n of_o believer_n in_o samaria_n as_o great_a as_o you_o will_v have_v it_o it_o prove_v nothing_o reply_n the_o church_n at_o jerusalem_n be_v one_o and_o distinct_a yet_o increase_v to_o 3000_o then_o to_o 5000_o etc._n etc._n answ_n be_v it_o so_o the_o increase_n be_v very_o great_a yet_o so_o long_o as_o they_o be_v call_v one_o distinct_a church_n it_o be_v one_o congregation_n viz._n until_o they_o scatter_v by_o the_o persecution_n about_o stephen_n act_v 7._o 8._o which_o be_v evident_a by_o these_o two_o argument_n first_o act_v 2_o 41_o etc._n etc._n where_o we_o see_v the_o 3000_o add_v to_o the_o 120._o they_o have_v their_o communion_n together_o describe_v 1_o in_o regard_n of_o their_o spiritual_a communion_n to_o be_v in_o the_o apostle_n doctrine_n fellowship_n break_v of_o bread_n and_o prayer_n verse_n 42._o second_o in_o regard_n of_o their_o outward_a communion_n in_o the_o good_a thing_n of_o this_o life_n they_o bid_v all_o thing_n common_a and_o sell_v their_o possession_n etc._n etc._n verse_n 44_o &_o 45_o now_o the_o manner_n of_o both_o part_n of_o this_o communion_n in_o respect_n of_o time_n and_o place_n be_v describe_v verse_n 46._o viz._n in_o their_o spiritual_a duty_n they_o continue_v daily_o with_o one_o accord_n in_o the_o temple_n and_o second_o in_o respect_n of_o their_o outward_a communion_n in_o their_o state_n they_o eat_v their_o meat_n from_o house_n to_o house_n this_o latter_a require_v many_o table_n and_o many_o house_n to_o provide_v for_o they_o so_o that_o although_o in_o their_o outward_a communion_n it_o be_v in_o private_a house_n yet_o their_o spiritual_a communion_n it_o be_v with_o one_o accord_n in_o one_o place_n viz._n the_o temple_n where_o they_o have_v room_n enough_o be_v the_o place_n erect_v for_o a_o national_n church_n and_o have_v favour_n with_o all_o the_o people_n be_v not_o interrupt_v therein_o by_o any_o persecution_n we_o need_v not_o step_v out_o of_o our_o way_n to_o reply_v to_o all_o that_o be_v say_v against_o this_o reason_n it_o be_v enough_o for_o we_o to_o note_v that_o they_o daily_o with_o one_o accord_n meet_v and_o that_o in_o the_o temple_n which_o be_v not_o answer_v by_o any_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d or_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 2_o this_o appear_v act_v 6._o 1_o 5._o where_o it_o be_v evident_a the_o election_n of_o deacon_n be_v before_o and_o by_o the_o multitude_n verse_n 1._o by_o the_o whole_a multitude_n verse_n 5._o and_o this_o be_v the_o last_o church-meeting_n and_o church-act_n we_o read_v of_o before_o their_o scatter_n neither_o can_v it_o appear_v that_o the_o jew_n and_o grecian_n who_o widow_n murmur_v be_v two_o distinct_a congregation_n but_o the_o contrary_n be_v evident_a in_o that_o the_o deacon_n be_v choose_v all_o by_o the_o whole_a and_o for_o the_o whole_a not_o distinct_o so_o many_o for_o this_o and_o so_o many_o for_o that_o church_n as_o it_o be_v needful_a if_o they_o be_v two_o church_n these_o proof_n be_v so_o clear_a the_o inconvenience_n object_v be_v of_o no_o force_n and_o sufficient_o answer_v by_o many_o example_n of_o as_o great_a assembly_n meet_v ordinary_o to_o edification_n as_o beside_o the_o auditory_a of_o chrysostome_n cite_v by_o other_o the_o assembly_n of_o stepney_n in_o london_n y●rmouth_n in_o norfolk_n and_o other_o in_o our_o experience_n beza_n a_o man_n not_o love_v to_o hyperbolise_v say_v that_o be_v in_o paris_n there_o meet_v at_o a_o sermon_n 332._o 24000._o and_o of_o a_o synodall_n assembly_n that_o they_o receive_v the_o lords-supper_n no_o less_o than_o 10000_o beza_n epist._n 65._o reply_n without_o question_v the_o number_n of_o believer_n at_o antioch_n be_v not_o small_a of_o which_o it_o be_v express_o say_v that_o a_o great_a number_n believe_v and_o that_o a_o great_a multitude_n be_v add_v to_o the_o lord_n by_o the_o preach_n of_o barnabas_n etc._n etc._n and_o therefore_o we_o may_v think_v the_o church_n rise_v to_o such_o a_o bigness_n as_o can_v not_o well_o assemble_v in_o one_o congregation_n act_v 11._o 21._o &_o 14._o 27._o answ_n 1_o in_o that_o place_n act_v 11._o 21._o the_o great_a number_n that_o believe_v be_v the_o fruit_n of_o all_o the_o scatter_a christian_n at_o phenice_n cyprus_n and_o antioch_n for_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o lord_n be_v with_o they_o all_o and_o their_o whole_a success_n be_v sum_v up_o together_o nothing_o say_v before_o of_o the_o other_o place_n 2_o though_o paul_n and_o barnabas_n teach_v much_o people_n yet_o it_o prove_v not_o that_o this_o much_o people_n be_v convert_v to_o the_o church_n 3_o though_o much_o people_n be_v add_v to_o the_o lord_n yet_o do_v it_o follow_v they_o be_v more_o than_o can_v meet_v in_o one_o congregation_n and_o if_o first_o disciple_n be_v there_o call_v christian_n must_v it_o need_v be_v for_o their_o number_n and_o not_o rather_o for_o eminent_a likeness_n to_o christ_n with_o other_o specialty_n of_o providence_n 4_o it_o be_v express_o say_v the_o church_n be_v gather_v together_o act_v 14._o 27._o which_o be_v not_o mean_v of_o the_o elder_n only_o as_o if_o they_o only_o can_v meet_v for_o chap._n 15._o 30._o they_o gather_v the_o multitude_n together_o so_o that_o it_o be_v not_o such_o a_o number_n but_o may_v meet_v together_o in_o one_o place_n reply_n the_o number_n of_o believer_n be_v great_a at_o ephesus_n where_o paul_n preach_v two_o year_n all_o that_o dwell_v in_o asia_n hear_v the_o word_n a_o great_a door_n and_o effectual_a way_n open_v to_o he_o where_o the_o shrine_n of_o diana_n her_o temple_n be_v in_o danger_n to_o be_v set_v at_o nought_o where_o those_o that_o use_v curious_a art_n burn_v their_o book_n open_o which_o can_v not_o be_v do_v without_o great_a danger_n of_o the_o church_n unless_o a_o great_a part_n of_o the_o city_n have_v believe_v act_v 19_o 10_o 19_o 27._o answ_n 1_o be_v it_o so_o that_o many_o be_v convert_v and_o the_o word_n grow_v mighty_o this_o prove_v not_o that_o all_o who_o hear_v paul_n be_v of_o the_o church_n of_o ephesus_n for_o then_o all_o asia_n shall_v be_v of_o that_o church_n act_n 19_o 10._o who_o do_v hear_v the_o word_n both_o jew_n and_o gentile_n as_o for_o the_o danger_n of_o the_o shrine_n and_o diana_n temple_n to_o be_v set_v at_o nought_o a_o little_a spark_n may_v kindle_v such_o fear_n and_o raise_v such_o outcry_n in_o the_o covetous_a craftsman_n by_o who_o the_o whole_a city_n be_v set_v in_o a_o superstitious_a uproar_n our_o own_o experience_n may_v teach_v how_o soon_o a_o profane_a people_n will_v cry_v out_o against_o a_o faithful_a minister_n before_o he_o have_v convert_v
this_o case_n to_o assent_v the_o right_a way_n of_o church_n elect_v officer_n and_o enjoy_v ordinance_n against_o all_o corruption_n that_o have_v be_v in_o the_o church_n do_v not_o make_v a_o nullity_n of_o the_o ordinance_n themselves_o we_o may_v say_v that_o this_o conclusion_n rise_v beyond_o measure_n the_o objection_n be_v thus_o answer_v we_o leave_v the_o conclusion_n to_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o indifferent_a reader_n chap._n xii_o reply_n to_o the_o seven_o consideration_n the_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n of_o stranger_n in_o london_n record_v by_o john_n alasco_n be_v for_o differ_v from_o your_o judgement_n and_o practice_n in_o the_o point_n in_o question_n for_o first_o say_v they_o paul_n testify_v that_o the_o church_n itself_o without_o exception_n of_o any_o member_n of_o it_o be_v clean_o or_o holy_a by_o the_o administration_n of_o baptism_n answ_n we_o confess_v the_o same_o reply_n second_o they_o bold_a communion_n with_o the_o church_n of_o england_n as_o one_o with_o they_o answ_n the_o church_n of_o england_n they_o call_v it_o not_o but_o the_o english_a church_n and_o we_o deny_v not_o the_o same_o in_o a_o orderly_a way_n as_o they_o also_o require_v testimony_n of_o their_o piety_n if_o any_o do_v but_o present_a a_o child_n to_o baptism_n in_o their_o church_n we_o have_v often_o profess_v this_o and_o by_o your_o own_o grant_n most_o of_o the_o approve_a christian_n among_o we_o be_v not_o member_n of_o the_o english_a church_n have_v renounce_v their_o right_n of_o membership_n and_o commuion_n with_o the_o church_n they_o be_v of_o there_o reply_n three_o this_o order_n be_v observe_v by_o they_o to_o prevent_v the_o imposture_n of_o some_o that_o pretend_v to_o the_o english_a they_o be_v join_v to_o the_o stranger_n &_o contra_fw-la answ_n this_o be_v not_o the_o only_a reason_n of_o their_o order_n for_o his_o word_n be_v all_o stranger_n do_v not_o join_v themselves_o to_o our_o church_n yea_o there_o be_v those_o that_o avoid_v all_o church_n etc._n etc._n which_o plain_o show_v they_o look_v further_a than_o such_o according_a to_o our_o practice_n even_o their_o own_o country_n man_n flee_v for_o religion_n as_o we_o be_v they_o yet_o receive_v they_o not_o till_o by_o public_a profession_n of_o faith_n and_o subjection_n to_o discipline_n they_o join_v themselves_o to_o some_o congregationall_a church_n second_o this_o show_v what_o disorder_n and_o abuse_v of_o ordinance_n will_v follow_v from_o such_o a_o liberty_n to_o admit_v such_o as_o be_v not_o join_v to_o some_o church_n for_o by_o this_o mean_v many_o will_v neglect_v all_o order_n and_o discipline_n if_o they_o may_v but_o have_v the_o seal_n three_o to_o put_v all_o out_o of_o question_n that_o their_o practice_n and_o judgement_n in_o effect_n be_v the_o same_o with_o we_o in_o this_o point_n note_v the_o first_o question_n propound_v by_o they_o be_v these_o infant_n which_o you_o offer_v the_o ●eed_n of_o this_o church_n that_o they_o may_v lawful_o be_v here_o baptize_v by_o our_o ministry_n chap._n xiii_o thus_o far_o we_o have_v answer_v to_o the_o reply_v make_v to_o the_o consideration_n in_o our_o answer_n to_o the_o 3._o and_o 4._o position_n now_o whereas_o we_o take_v notice_n of_o three_o objection_n against_o our_o first_o consideration_n and_o answer_v the_o same_o it_o please_v the_o learned_a author_n to_o take_v up_o only_o two_o of_o they_o and_o with_o much_o enlargement_n to_o urge_v the_o same_o as_o his_o reason_n against_o the_o position_n and_o to_o apply_v our_o answer_n thereunto_o by_o which_o mean_v our_o answer_n to_o the_o objection_n brief_o set_v down_o may_v seem_v not_o so_o apt_a and_o full_a here_o as_o they_o will_v appear_v in_o their_o proper_a place_n and_o therefore_o it_o will_v be_v needful_a for_o we_o to_o enlarge_v ourselves_o somewhat_o in_o answer_v some_o passage_n at_o least_o in_o the_o reason_n as_o they_o be_v here_o propound_v before_o we_o come_v to_o the_o reply_n reply_n reason_n 1._o that_o sacred_a order_n god_n have_v set_v in_o his_o visible_a church_n etc._n etc._n answ_n these_o word_n with_o all_o that_o follow_v whatever_o they_o may_v seem_v to_o carry_v with_o they_o be_v nothing_o but_o a_o bare_a denial_n of_o the_o position_n in_o variety_n of_o expression_n reply_n for_o first_o the_o baptism_n of_o john_n be_v true_a baptism_n etc._n etc._n but_o he_o never_o demand_v of_o those_o he_o receive_v whether_o they_o be_v enter_v into_o church_n covenant_n etc._n etc._n answ_n this_o we_o have_v in_o substance_n before_o and_o be_v answer_v with_o all_o the_o other_o instance_n in_o this_o first_o reason_n in_o our_o answer_n to_o the_o reply_n to_o the_o first_o consideration_n and_o in_o other_o place_n and_o therefore_o in_o vain_a here_o to_o repeat_v the_o same_o and_o we_o have_v observe_v more_o than_o once_o your_o plain_a confession_n that_o the_o apostle_n constitute_v church_n by_o baptism_n even_o such_o church_n as_o they_o set_v elder_n in_o by_o the_o election_n of_o the_o people_n reply_n the_o second_o reason_n in_o substance_n be_v this_o because_o from_o christ_n and_o the_o constant_a practice_n of_o the_o apostle_n we_o learn_v that_o such_o as_o be_v call_v of_o god_n receive_v the_o holy_a ghost_n believe_v in_o the_o lord_n profess_v their_o faith_n in_o he_o with_o repentance_n and_o amendment_n of_o life_n have_v a_o right_n to_o baptism_n and_o desire_v it_o be_v wrong_v if_o they_o be_v deprive_v thereof_o answ_n we_o grant_v the_o whole_a but_o as_o it_o be_v suppose_v in_o due_a order_n they_o must_v receive_v it_o so_o we_o desire_v no_o more_o for_o we_o grant_v upon_o these_o common_a ground_n such_o have_v jus_o ad_fw-la rem_fw-la but_o not_o jus_o in_o re_fw-mi and_o the_o immediate_a fruition_n of_o they_o reply_n three_o by_o a_o lively_a faith_n a_o man_n have_v internal_a communion_n with_o christ_n by_o profession_n of_o the_o entire_a faith_n join_v with_o conformity_n of_o life_n in_o righteousness_n holiness_n and_o fellowship_n of_o love_n he_o be_v a_o member_n of_o the_o visible_a congregation_n or_o flock_n of_o christ_n though_o no_o set_a member_n of_o a_o free_a independent_a society_n and_o baptism_n be_v a_o seal_n of_o our_o admission_n into_o the_o flock_n of_o christ_n not_o ever_o more_o but_o by_o accident_n of_o our_o receive_n into_o a_o particular_a congregation_n answ_n this_o reason_n stand_v upon_o such_o a_o sense_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n as_o can_v be_v find_v and_o it_o be_v before_o confess_v that_o the_o catholic_n church_n consist_v of_o all_o true_a particular_a church_n as_o the_o part_n of_o it_o and_o therefore_o how_o can_v a_o man_n be_v visible_o a_o member_n of_o the_o whole_a and_o belong_v to_o no_o part_n thereof_o second_o we_o deny_v not_o but_o such_o have_v a_o right_a to_o be_v in_o the_o particular_a church_n and_o so_o to_o baptism_n and_o all_o ordinance_n but_o as_o by_o such_o profession_n they_o be_v not_o member_n of_o any_o particular_a church_n so_o neither_o have_v they_o immediate_a right_n to_o the_o privilege_n thereof_o without_o admittance_n into_o the_o same_o fit_a matter_n such_o be_v for_o a_o particular_a visible_a church_n that_o profess_v the_o entire_a faith_n etc._n etc._n but_o it_o do_v not_o admit_v they_o actual_o thereunto_o and_o your_o own_o expression_n secret_o imply_v as_o much_o when_o you_o say_v baptism_n be_v a_o seal_n of_o our_o admission_n into_o the_o church_n or_o flock_n of_o christ_n if_o baptism_n be_v the_o seal_n of_o our_o admission_n than_o there_o be_v a_o admission_n thereunto_o before_o baptism_n but_o who_o do_v admit_v and_o where_o and_o when_o be_v any_o admit_v to_o the_o church_n but_o in_o particular_a congregation_n can_v any_o be_v admit_v into_o a_o church_n that_o whole_a church_n be_v ignorant_a thereof_o but_o a_o man_n may_v profess_v the_o entire_a faith_n and_o live_v according_o among_o the_o heathen_a where_o neither_o any_o church_n nor_o member_n of_o it_o take_v knowledge_n thereof_o and_o therefore_o bare_a profession_n do_v not_o admit_v man_n but_o make_v they_o fit_a to_o be_v receive_v and_o admit_v into_o the_o visible_a church_n your_o four_o reason_n we_o have_v have_v twice_o before_o and_o answer_v the_o same_o reply_n to_o our_o answer_n of_o the_o first_o objection_n from_o the_o instance_n of_o the_o centurion_n lydia_n the_o jailor_n and_o the_o eunuch_n first_o if_o where_o the_o holy_a ghost_n be_v give_v and_o receive_v and_o faith_n profess_v according_a to_o god_n ordinance_n there_o none_o may_v hinder_v from_o be_v baptize_v soil_n by_o such_o as_o have_v power_n to_o baptize_v they_o then_o either_o such_o be_v member_n of_o the_o church_n or_o baptism_n be_v not_o a_o privilege_n of_o the_o church_n than_o it_o be_v not_o essential_a to_o baptism_n in_o the_o
but_o of_o what_o be_v to_o be_v require_v of_o such_o as_o join_v unto_o a_o church_n for_o a_o church_n may_v be_v a_o true_a church_n and_o yet_o be_v very_o corrupt_a as_o be_v general_o observe_v by_o protestant_a writer_n hoth_v out_o of_o the_o example_n of_o some_o church_n in_o the_o new_a testament_n and_o that_o of_o the_o old_a in_o the_o great_a apostasy_n thereof_o we_o think_v in_o this_o same_o doctor_n field_n expression_n may_v be_v safe_o 7_o receive_v some_o profess_v christ_n say_v he_o but_o not_o whole_o and_o entire_o as_o heretic_n some_o profess_v the_o whole_a save_a truth_n but_o not_o in_o unity_n as_o schismatic_n some_o profess_v it_o in_o untie_v but_o not_o in_o sincerity_n as_o profane_a person_n and_o hypocrite_n some_o in_o unity_n and_o sincerity_n all_o these_o be_v partaker_n of_o the_o heavenly_a call_n by_o profession_n of_o the_o truth_n and_o consequent_o in_o some_o degree_n and_o sort_n the_o church_n etc._n etc._n but_o we_o think_v that_o this_o be_v no_o argument_n that_o either_o heretic_n schismatickes_n profane_a person_n or_o hypocrite_n if_o convictive_o discover_v that_o such_o be_v meet_a matter_n to_o be_v join_v to_o a_o church_n second_o when_o a_o work_n of_o grace_n be_v require_v and_o desire_v of_o those_o who_o be_v to_o join_v to_o a_o church_n the_o meaning_n be_v not_o as_o if_o we_o allow_v none_o to_o be_v of_o the_o church_n but_o real_a saint_n and_o such_o as_o give_v demonstrative_a evidence_n of_o be_v member_n of_o the_o invisible_a church_n for_o we_o profess_v according_a to_o the_o scripture_n and_o general_a doctrine_n of_o all_o reform_a church_n what_o ever_o their_o practice_n be_v that_o it_o be_v not_o real_a but_o visible_a faith_n not_o the_o inward_a be_v but_o the_o outward_a profession_n of_o faith_n whence_o man_n be_v call_v visible_a saint_n that_o constitute_v a_o visible_a church_n which_o faith_n so_o profess_v be_v call_v visible_a not_o in_o the_o judgement_n of_o certainty_n from_o such_o infallible_a sign_n of_o it_o as_o may_v demonstrate_v the_o hide_a be_v of_o it_o within_o but_o in_o the_o judgement_n of_o charity_n which_o hope_v the_o best_a 1_o cor._n 12_o 7_o in_o the_o weak_a christian_n and_o mean_a profession_n even_o when_o it_o sometime_o fear_v the_o worst_a and_o be_v not_o able_a at_o the_o present_a to_o convince_v the_o contrary_n three_o this_o judgement_n of_o charity_n concern_v the_o truth_n of_o another_o profession_n or_o that_o which_o be_v call_v the_o work_n of_o grace_n be_v to_o be_v regulate_v by_o the_o word_n which_o christ_n have_v leave_v as_o a_o complete_a rule_n not_o only_o of_o faith_n but_o also_o of_o love_n and_o charity_n to_o guide_v both_o in_o their_o act_n unto_o their_o end_n and_o hence_o large_a profession_n and_o long_a relation_n of_o the_o work_n of_o grace_n though_o full_a of_o exceed_a glory_n when_o humble_o and_o prudent_o make_v we_o exact_v not_o rigorous_o and_o necessary_o of_o all_o because_o the_o rule_n of_o charity_n direct_v we_o not_o so_o to_o judge_v because_o many_o christian_n may_v be_v draw_v to_o christ_n and_o have_v a_o seed_n of_o faith_n yet_o may_v sometime_o not_o know_v it_o sometime_o remember_v not_o the_o work_n of_o it_o sometime_o through_o bashfulness_n fear_n want_v of_o part_n nor_o not_o train_v up_o under_o a_o know_a ministry_n not_o be_v able_a to_o profess_v it_o so_o full_o and_o clear_o hence_o also_o to_o keep_v out_o other_o from_o communion_n out_o of_o groundless_a fear_n that_o all_o their_o profession_n may_v be_v in_o hypocrisy_n we_o allow_v not_o because_o no_o man_n in_o his_o charity_n be_v to_o be_v rule_v by_o his_o fear_n but_o by_o the_o word_n hence_o also_o to_o account_v any_o unfit_a for_o the_o church_n because_o their_o heart_n can_v close_v with_o they_o or_o because_o they_o like_v not_o their_o spirit_n speak_v not_o with_o favour_n or_o any_o such_o like_a principle_n and_o yet_o can_v give_v no_o rule_n or_o convict_a argument_n from_o the_o word_n why_o thus_o they_o do_v we_o think_v be_v rigour_n not_o charity_n regulate_v by_o the_o word_n for_o humane_a charity_n do_v not_o make_v god_n church_n but_o such_o person_n which_o from_o god_n according_a to_o the_o rule_n of_o god_n charity_n be_v to_o receive_v and_o therefore_o the_o rule_n be_v to_o be_v attend_v here_o it_o be_v necessary_a to_o look_v for_o a_o ground_n of_o certainty_n to_o faith_n but_o not_o for_o charity_n which_o can_v be_v infallible_o certain_a of_o another_o estate_n and_o therefore_o upon_o a_o hopeful_a supposition_n that_o the_o premise_n their_o profession_n be_v true_a hopeful_o only_o make_v the_o conclusion_n the_o question_n ●eing_v bring_v to_o this_o narrow_a it_o will_v here_o lie_v viz._n first_o whether_o profession_n of_o the_o work_n of_o grace_n and_o faith_n be_v not_o require_v of_o those_o that_o enter_v into_o the_o church_n second_o with_o what_o profession_n of_o the_o work_n of_o grace_n charity_n according_a to_o a_o rule_n be_v to_o rest_v satisfy_v the_o first_o we_o think_v be_v write_v with_o the_o beam_n of_o the_o sun_n for_o it_o be_v evident_a that_o neither_o the_o lord_n in_o the_o old_a testament_n exod._n 19_o or_o in_o the_o new_a testament_n act_n 2._o and_o in_o other_o like_a scripture_n do_v call_v for_o a_o profession_n of_o the_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n only_o but_o especial_o of_o the_o work_n of_o faith_n for_o when_o the_o lord_n promise_v to_o be_v a_o god_n to_o his_o people_n exd._n 19_o deut._n 29._o it_o be_v not_o with_o this_o condition_n if_o they_o do_v believe_v his_o word_n to_o be_v true_a etc._n etc._n but_o if_o they_o will_v hear_v his_o voice_n and_o keep_v his_o covenant_n which_o in_o a_o prepare_a people_n be_v a_o manifestation_n of_o a_o work_n of_o grace_n so_o when_o the_o apostle_n be_v require_v to_o go_v preach_v to_o all_o nation_n and_o baptize_v they_o and_o teach_v they_o look_v as_o they_o do_v require_v such_o a_o faith_n as_o be_v save_v he_o that_o believe_v shall_v be_v save_v so_o upon_o the_o profession_n thereof_o they_o do_v receive_v they_o as_o also_o appear_v act_v 2._o 38._o which_o therefore_o can_v not_o be_v of_o the_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n for_o that_o the_o devil_n do_v and_o tremble_v and_o profane_a man_n of_o much_o knowledge_n may_v do_v and_o yet_o unfit_a to_o be_v receive_v and_o therefore_o it_o be_v of_o the_o work_n of_o faith_n and_o therefore_o act._n 8._o 37._o philip_n not_o only_o require_v faith_n but_o a_o believe_a with_o all_o the_o heart_n of_o the_o eunuch_n and_o upon_o such_o a_o profession_n baptize_v he_o and_o hence_o the_o church_n erect_v by_o the_o apostle_n at_o corinth_n colosse_n ephesus_n etc._n etc._n be_v call_v saint_n and_o sanctify_v of_o god_n in_o christ_n jesus_n etc._n etc._n how_o be_v it_o because_o debito_fw-la and_o de_fw-la jure_fw-la only_o they_o shall_v be_v so_o then_o all_o who_o hear_v the_o gospel_n though_o they_o reject_v it_o may_v be_v call_v a_o church_n for_o de_fw-fr jure_fw-la they_o ought_v to_o be_v so_o or_o be_v it_o because_o there_o be_v some_o that_o be_v true_o such_o among_o they_o and_o so_o in_o concreto_fw-la be_v call_v a_o church_n and_o body_n of_o christ_n not_o only_o so_o for_o there_o may_v be_v some_o visible_a church_n of_o visible_a saint_n and_o yet_o none_o among_o they_o of_o the_o invisible_a church_n unless_o any_o will_v think_v that_o to_o be_v of_o the_o church_n invisible_a be_v essential_a to_o the_o be_v and_o title_n of_o a_o visible_a church_n and_o therefore_o it_o be_v from_o their_o profession_n of_o save_a faith_n which_o they_o maintain_v be_v a_o church_n as_o it_o be_v require_v to_o the_o gather_n into_o a_o church_n john_n baptist_n also_o though_o he_o baptize_v none_o into_o a_o new_a church_n and_o therefore_o may_v require_v the_o less_o yet_o as_o he_o real_o promise_v remission_n of_o sin_n by_o the_o messiah_n so_o he_o require_v that_o very_a faith_n and_o repentance_n which_o may_v make_v they_o partaker_n of_o this_o heavenly_a benefit_n and_o therefore_o if_o what_o he_o require_v they_o manifest_v by_o their_o profession_n and_o confession_n of_o sin_n it_o be_v not_o only_o to_o believe_v the_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n but_o a_o save_a work_n of_o faith_n which_o they_o hold_v forth_o and_o therefore_o it_o be_v not_o a_o outward_a profession_n of_o faith_n according_a to_o a_o creed_n which_o be_v require_v for_o then_o a_o papist_n be_v fit_a matter_n for_o a_o church_n nor_o willingness_n to_o hear_v the_o word_n and_o receive_v the_o sacrament_n for_o then_o heap_n of_o profane_a person_n be_v to_o be_v receive_v into_o the_o church_n but_o it_o be_v profession_n of_o a_o work_n and_o save_a work_n
to_o rise_v up_o against_o it_o with_o zeal_n and_o detestation_n a_o minister_n godly_a and_o able_a will_v use_v any_o part_n of_o it_o with_o offence_n etc._n etc._n we_o suppose_v we_o have_v cause_n to_o fear_v and_o leave_v it_o doubtful_a whether_o the_o godly_a may_v lawful_o join_v with_o they_o therein_o and_o therefore_o we_o desire_v you_o to_o call_v back_o your_o sharp_a censure_n of_o such_o withdraw_a as_o you_o conclude_v this_o passage_n withal_o or_o else_o we_o shall_v appeal_v to_o the_o reverend_a assembly_n of_o minister_n and_o their_o late_a and_o godly_a directory_n herein_o reply_n five_o if_o these_o and_o such_o like_a scruple_n make_v it_o unlawful_a to_o join_v in_o the_o ordinance_n of_o worship_n we_o must_v hold_v communion_n with_o no_o society_n under_o heaven_n for_o may_v not_o the_o brethren_n which_o hold_v all_o stint_a liturgy_n and_o set_a form_n unlawful_a say_v with_o like_a reason_n it_o be_v not_o lawful_a to_o join_v with_o other_o in_o conceive_a prayer_n if_o they_o give_v too_o little_a honour_n to_o it_o as_o conceive_v the_o other_o lawful_a or_o sinful_o limit_v themselves_o to_o one_o stint_a form_n though_o conceive_v at_o first_o by_o themselves_o etc._n etc._n answ_n we_o must_v in_o treat_v the_o christian_a reader_n still_o to_o carry_v in_o mind_n with_o what_o tenderness_n we_o offer_v ourselves_o in_o this_o point_n and_o upon_o what_o consideration_n we_o dare_v not_o whole_o excuse_v and_o clear_v such_o join_n as_o the_o case_n now_o stand_v and_o therefore_o we_o think_v these_o reason_v will_v be_v far_o differ_v from_o the_o case_n in_o hand_n and_o we_o will_v not_o be_v take_v so_o as_o to_o justify_v such_o rigid_a principle_n as_o these_o be_v we_o hearty_o join_v in_o the_o conclusion_n that_o such_o advance_n of_o small_a difference_n will_v indeed_o bring_v all_o to_o confusion_n and_o we_o be_v far_o we_o hope_v from_o any_o such_o meaning_n if_o our_o answer_n in_o this_o or_o any_o other_o passage_n give_v just_a advantage_n to_o such_o separation_n we_o be_v hearty_o sorry_a for_o it_o but_o we_o hope_v what_o have_v be_v say_v will_v satisfy_v the_o ingenuous_a and_o christian_a reader_n reply_n six_o we_o have_v credible_o hear_v that_o you_o hold_v fellowship_n with_o profess_a rigid_a separatist_n without_o acknowledge_v of_o their_o error_n and_o receive_v they_o as_o member_n or_o communicate_v with_o they_o in_o the_o privilege_n of_o the_o church_n though_o you_o profess_v you_o approve_v not_o their_o opinion_n or_o practice_n and_o if_o in_o godly_a wisdom_n you_o can_v see_v ground_n to_o join_v with_o they_o we_o marvel_n you_o shall_v be_v so_o timorous_a in_o this_o particular_a answ_n although_o in_o many_o of_o our_o church_n we_o know_v not_o that_o there_o be_v any_o such_o profess_a rigid_a separatist_n that_o reject_v the_o church_n of_o england_n as_o no_o church_n and_o their_o minister_n as_o no_o true_a minister_n yet_o we_o deny_v not_o but_o some_o such_o there_o may_v be_v in_o some_o of_o the_o church_n whence_o we_o grant_v it_o may_v follow_v that_o we_o can_v have_v communion_n in_o god_n worship_n with_o man_n of_o several_a judgement_n yet_o we_o may_v be_v just_o timorous_a of_o join_v or_o approve_v other_o to_o join_v in_o any_o part_n of_o a_o corrupt_a worship_n in_o case_n of_o scandal_n etc._n etc._n we_o think_v these_o thing_n have_v not_o the_o same_o face_n or_o show_v of_o reason_n in_o they_o and_o therefore_o so_o long_o as_o they_o live_v peaceable_o with_o we_o we_o can_v well_o have_v fellowship_n with_o they_o as_o we_o have_v also_o with_o other_o that_o think_v it_o may_v be_v better_a of_o the_o church_n and_o way_n of_o it_o than_o there_o be_v cause_n in_o regard_n of_o the_o corruption_n thereof_o so_o we_o be_v not_o bind_v to_o approve_v their_o opinion_n nor_o conform_v to_o any_o of_o their_o corrupt_a practice_n reply_n seven_o if_o to_o administer_v in_o a_o stint_a form_n be_v scandalous_a to_o such_o as_o separate_v it_o be_v scandal_n take_v not_o give_v and_o we_o shall_v do_v it_o the_o rather_o that_o they_o be_v not_o confirm_v in_o their_o error_n the_o truth_n be_v not_o prejudice_v needless_a scruple_n occasion_v etc._n etc._n answ_n 1_o this_o be_v from_o the_o question_n for_o we_o dispute_v of_o your_o liturgy_n not_o of_o any_o liturgy_n or_o stint_v form_n 2_o take_v in_o the_o case_n in_o all_o its_o circumstance_n as_o before_o declare_v and_o it_o will_v appear_v scandal_n may_v be_v give_v at_o least_o we_o put_v the_o case_n of_o a_o scandal_n real_o give_v 3_o how_o far_o a_o man_n in_o some_o case_n of_o clear_a and_o undoubted_a truth_n may_v do_v a_o thing_n the_o rather_o for_o such_o reason_n though_o other_o take_v offence_n we_o will_v not_o dispute_v but_o if_o for_o meat_n or_o by_o use_n of_o our_o liberty_n by_o eat_v of_o such_o meat_n as_o another_o account_n unclean_a we_o may_v destroy_v the_o work_n of_o god_n and_o therefore_o must_v not_o eat_v flesh_n nor_o drink_v wine_n nor_o any_o thing_n whereby_o a_o brother_n stumble_v etc._n etc._n rom._n 14_o 14_o 15_o 20_o 21._o how_o dangerous_a then_o to_o use_v such_o corrupt_a form_n of_o worship_n or_o any_o part_n thereof_o so_o much_o the_o rather_o when_o a_o weak_a brother_n stumble_v at_o they_o we_o leave_v it_o to_o the_o christian_a reader_n to_o judge_n we_o doubt_v it_o will_v not_o agree_v with_o the_o rule_n of_o charity_n prescribe_v rom._n 14._o 1_o cor._n 8._o chap._n iii_o 3_o position_n that_o the_o child_n of_o godly_a and_o approve_a christian_n be_v not_o to_o be_v baptize_v until_o their_o parent_n be_v set_v member_n of_o some_o particular_a congregation_n 4_o that_o the_o parent_n themselves_o though_o of_o approve_a piety_n be_v not_o to_o be_v receive_v to_o the_o lords-supper_n until_o they_o be_v admit_v as_o set_v member_n reply_n what_o be_v here_o premise_a to_o prevent_v mistake_n do_v seem_v more_o to_o raise_v then_o to_o abate_v scruple_n you_o refuse_v not_o all_o communion_n with_o all_o that_o be_v not_o church-member_n and_o so_o much_o they_o profess_v who_o former_o have_v go_v for_o and_o profess_v themselves_o separatist_n from_o our_o assembly_n you_o do_v not_o appropriate_v these_o privilege_n of_o the_o seal_v only_o to_o member_n of_o your_o own_o church_n etc._n etc._n if_o you_o mean_v only_o that_o the_o sacrament_n administer_v in_o other_o church_n be_v true_a for_o substance_n it_o be_v no_o more_o than_o you_o will_v confess_v of_o rome_n if_o you_o deny_v not_o fellowship_n with_o they_o in_o the_o seal_n and_o to_o receive_v they_o to_o the_o sacrament_n your_o judgement_n be_v against_o your_o practice_n or_o you_o exclude_v the_o church_n of_o england_n from_o the_o number_n of_o true_a church_n answ_n we_o see_v not_o how_o such_o scruple_n can_v be_v raise_v without_o great_a mistake_n of_o our_o meaning_n our_o expression_n be_v so_o plain_a and_o distinct_a for_o 1_o what_o if_o some_o separatist_n admit_v private_a communion_n with_o such_o yet_o they_o reject_v your_o church_n and_o ministry_n as_o null_n which_o we_o do_v not_o and_o many_o of_o they_o have_v refuse_v also_o such_o private_a communion_n 2_o we_o marvel_n how_o you_o can_v fall_v into_o such_o a_o mistake_n as_o to_o suppose_v we_o only_o allow_v the_o truth_n of_o sacrament_n for_o substance_n in_o other_o church_n when_o we_o speak_v in_o the_o same_o sentence_n of_o receive_v satisfaction_n by_o letter_n or_o otherwise_o concern_v those_o we_o admit_v to_o the_o seal_n which_o plain_o show_v we_o speak_v of_o communion_n with_o such_o church_n 3_o concern_v fellowship_n with_o those_o church_n we_o may_v admit_v member_n of_o they_o to_o the_o seal_n with_o we_o when_o we_o can_v always_o join_v with_o they_o in_o their_o administration_n by_o reason_n of_o some_o sinful_a corruption_n wherein_o we_o must_v have_v actual_a fellowship_n with_o they_o as_o yourselves_o will_v not_o join_v in_o case_n you_o must_v kneel_v at_o the_o lords-supper_n 4_o concern_v the_o dilemma_n we_o answer_v 1_o our_o practice_n be_v not_o cross_v to_o this_o profession_n for_o such_o as_o come_v recommend_v from_o foreign_a church_n and_o give_v such_o satisfaction_n as_o be_v meet_v we_o do_v receive_v and_o such_o as_o have_v whole_o cast_v off_o all_o relation_n to_o english_a church_n and_o live_v among_o we_o we_o have_v look_v at_o as_o scatter_a stone_n till_o they_o join_v some_o where_o in_o a_o church_n and_o themselves_o general_o so_o judge_v of_o themselves_o but_o if_o any_o will_v hold_v to_o their_o membership_n in_o england_n and_o come_v orderly_o to_o communion_n with_o we_o we_o have_v not_o no●_n shall_v not_o under_o that_o notion_n refuse_v they_o if_o they_o be_v fit_a for_o the_o ordinance_n and_o therefore_o we_o exclude_v