more weight that complaine of ease The discourse that I rol'd downe vpon you was weake and weightlesse you shall well finde this was my lenitie not my impotence The fault hereof is partly in your expectation not in my letter I meant but a short Epistle you look't belike for a volume or nothing I meant onely a generall monition you look't for a solide prosecution of particulars It is not for you to giue taskes to others pennes By what Lawe must wee write nothing but large Scholasticall Discourses Such Tomes as yours May we not touch your sore vnlesse wee will launce and search it I was not enough your enemie forgiue me this errour and you shall smart more But not onely my omissions were of ignorance but my censures though seuere and solemne An easie imputation from so great a Controuler I pardon you and take this as the common lot of enemies I neuer yet could see any Scribler so vnlearned as that he durst not charge his opposite with ignorance If Dr. Whitaker M. Perkins M. Gyfford and that Oracle of our present times Dr. Andrewes went away content with this liuerie from yours how can I repine If I haue censured what cause I knew not let me bee censured for more then ignorance impudencie but if you know not what I censured let all my trust lie on this issue take both ignorance boldnesse and malice to your selfe Is your cause so mysticall that you can feare any mans ignorance What Cobler or Spinster hath not heard of the maine holds of Brownisme Am I only a stranger in Hierusalem If I know not all your opinions pardon me Your owne haue not receiued this illumination I speake boldly not your selfe Euery day brings new conceites and not one day teaches but corrects another you must be more constant to your selues ere you can vpbraide ignorance or auoide it But whether I knew your prime fancies appeares sufficiently by a particular discourse which aboue a yeare since was in the hands of some of your Clients and I wonder if not in yours Shortly am I ignorant If I were obstinate too you might hope with the next gale for me your more equall aduersarie at Amsterdam As I am my want of care and skil shal I hope loose nothing of the trueth by you nor suffer any of your foule aspersions vpon the face of Gods Church and ours But whiles we striue who shall be our Iudge The Christian Readers who are those Presume not yee more zealous and forward Countrey men that you are admitted to this Bench so farre are wee meere English from being allowed Iudges of them that they haue already iudged vs to be no Christians We are Goates and Swine no Sheepe of God since then none but your Parlour in the West and Amsterdam must bee our Iudges who I beseech you shall be our aduersaries God be iudge betwixt you and vs and correct this your vnchristian vncharitablenesse SECTION III The parties written to and their Crime I Wrote not to you alone what is become of your partner yea your guide Woe is me he hath renounced our Christendome with our Church and hath wash't of his former water with new and now condemnes you all for not separating further no lesse then we condemne you for separating so far As if you could not be enough out of Babylon vnlesse you be out of your selues Alas miserable countrimen whither runne you Religion hath but his height beyond which is errour and madnesse Hee telles you true your station is vnsafe either you must forward to him or backe to vs. I obiected separation to you yet not so extreame as your answere bewrayes a late separation not the first my charity hoped you lesse ill then you will needes deserue you graunt it odious because it casts imputation of euil vpon the forsaken Of euill Yea of the worst an estate incurable and desperate He is an ill Phisitian that will leaue his patient vpon euery distemper his departure argues the disease helpelesse were wee but faulty as your Landlord Churches your owne Rules would not abide your flight Hence the Church of England iustly matches Separatists with the vilest persons GOD himselfe doth so who are more vile then Patrons of evill yet no greater woe is to them that speake good of euill then those that speake euill of good So wise Generalls punish mutinous persons worse then Robbers or Adulterers So Corah and his companie a Storie cunningly turned vpon vs by your Martyr for their opposition to Moses were more fearefully plagued then the Idolatrous Israelites These sinnes are more directly against common societie the other more personall and if both haue like iniquitie yet the former haue both more offence and more danger And if not so yet who cannot rather brooke a lewdâ— seruant then an vnduetifull sonne though pretending faire colours for his disobedience At least you thinke the Church of England thinkes her selfe Gods Church as wel as your Saints of Amsterdam You that so accurse Apostacie in others could yee expect shee should brooke it in you But your reasons are iust and well grounded euery way of a man is right in his owne eyes Said wee not well that thou art a Samaritane and hast a Diuell say the Iewes What Schisme euer did not thinke well of it selfe For vs wee call heauen and earth to record your cause hath no more iustice then your selues haue charitie SECTION IIII. The kinds of separation and which is iust YEt there is a commendable and happie separation from the world from the Prince and men of the world and whatsoeuer is contrarie to God who doubts it There were no heauen for vs without this no Church which hath her name giuen by her father and husband of calling out from other Out of the Egypt of the world dooth God call his sonnes But this separation is into the visible Church from the world not as yours out of the Church because of some particular mixtures with the world or if you had rather take it of profession out of the world of Pagans and Infidels into the visible Church not out of the world of true though â—aultie Christians into a purer Church That I may here at once for all giue light to this point of separation we finde in Scripture a separation either to good or from euill To good so the Leuites were separated from among the children of Israel to beare the Arke and to minister so the first borne first fruites and Cities of refuge So Paul was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 separated which some would haue allude to his Pharisaisme but hath plaine reference to Gods owne words Act. 13. 2. separate me Barnabas and Saul Though this is rather a destination to some worthy purpose then a properly called separation From euill whither sinne or sinners From sinne so euery soule must eschew euill
negatiues outward force takes away both sinne and blame and alters them from the patient to the actor so that now you see your straight bonds if they were such loosed by obedience and ouer-ruling power SECTION XIX The bonds of Gods word vniustly pleaded by the Separ BVT what bonds were these straight ones Gods word and your owne necessity Both strong and indissoluble where God hath bidden God forbid that we should care for the forbiddance of men I reuerence from my soule so doth our Church their deare Sister those worthy forraine Churches which haue chosen and followed those formes of outward gouernment that are euery way fittest for their owne condition It is enough for your Sect to censure them I touch nothing common to them with you While the world standeth where will it euer be shewed out of the sacred booke of God that hee hath charged Let there be perpetuall Lay-Elders in euery Congregation Let euery Assembly haue a Pastor and Doctor distinct in their charge and offices Let all decisions excommunications ordinations be performed by the whole multitude Let priuate Christians aboue the first turne in extremity agree to set ouer themselues a Pastor chosen from amongst them and receiue him with prayer and vnlesse that ceremony be turned to pompe and superstition by imposition of hands Let there be Widdowers which you call relieuers appointed euery where to the Church-seruice Let certaine discreete and able men which are not Ministers be appointed to preach the Gospell and whole truth of God to the people All the learned Diuines of other Churches are in these left yea in the most of them censured by you Hath God spoken these things to you alone Pleade not Reuelations and wee feare you not Pardon so homely an example As soone and by the same illumination shal G. Iohns proue to your Consistory the lace of the Pastors wiues sleeue or rings or Whale-bones or other amongst you as your Pastor confesseth knit stockings or Cork-shooes forbidden flatly by Scriptures as these commanded We see the letter of the Scriptures with you you shall fetch blood of them with strayning ere you shal wring out this seÌ„se No no M. R. neuer make God your stale Many of your ordinances came from no â—ier then your own braine Others of them though God acknowledges yet he imposed not Pretend what you will These are but the cords of your owne conceit not bonds of Christian obedience SECTION XX. The necessity of their pretended Ordinances THE first of these then is easily vntwisted your second is necessity Then which what can bee stronger what law or what remedy is against necessity What we must haue we cannot want Oppose but the publique necessitie to yours your necessity of hauing to the publique necessity of withholding and let one of these necessities like two nailes driue out another So they haue done and your owne necessity as the stronger hath preuailed for that other necessity might bee eluded by flight you haue sought and found else-where what the necessity of our lawes denied and the necessity of your conscience required Beware lest vniustly Sinne is as strong bond to a good heart as impossibility Christians can not doe what they ought not Contrary to the lawes of your Prince and Countrie you haue fledde not onely from vs but from our Communion Either is disobedience no sinne or might you do this euil that good may come of it But what necessity is this simple and absolute or conditional Is there no remedy but you must needes haue such Elders Pastors Doctors Relieuers such Offices such executions Can there be no Church no Christians without them What shall we say of the families of the Patriarkes of the Iewish Congregations vnder the law yea of Christ and his Apostles Either denie them to haue beene visible Churches or shew vs your distinct Offices amongst them But as yet you say they were not Therefore God hath had a true Church thousands of yeares without them Therefore they are not of the essence of the Church You call me to the times since Christ I demand then was there not a worthy Church of God in Hierusalem from the time of Christs Ascension till the election of the seauen Deacons Those hundred and twentie Disciples Act. 1. 15. and three thousand Conuerts Act. 2. 41. Those continuall Troupes that flocked to the Apostles were they no true Church Let the Apostles and Euangelists bee Pastors and Doctors where were their Elders Deacons Relieuers Afterwards when Deacons were ordained yet what news is there of Elders till Act. 11 yet that of Hierusalem was more forward then the rest We will not as you are wont argue from scriptures negatiuely no proofe yet much probability is in Saint Paules silence Hee writes to Rome Corinth and other Churches those his Diuine letters in a sweet Christian ciuility salute euen Ordinary Christians And would hee haue vtterly passed by all mention of these Church-Officers amongst his so precise acknowledgment of lesser titles in others if they had beene ere this ordained yet all these more then true Churches famous some of them rich forward and exemplary Onely the Philippian Church is stiled with Bishops and Deacons but no Elders besides them The Churches of Christ since these if at least you will graunt that Christ had any Church till now haue continued in a recorded succession through many hundreds of yeares Search the Monuments of her Histories Shew vs where euer in particular Congregations all these your necessary Offices as you describe them were either found or required It was therefore a new-no-Necessity that bound you to this course or if you had rather a Necessity of Fallibility If with these God may be well serued he may be well serued without them This is not that Vnum necessarium that Christ commends in Mary you might haue sate still with lesse trouble and more thanks SECTION XXI The enormities of the Church in common BVt besides that we ought to haue had somewhat which we want we haue some what which wee should haue wanted Some yea many Antichristian enormities To say we are absolute and neither want nor abound were the voice of Laodicea or Tyrus in the Prophet Our Church as shee is true so humble and is as farre from arrogating perfection as acknowledging falshood If she haue enormities yet not so many or if many not Antichristian Your Cham hath espied ninety one nakednesses in this his Mother and glories to shewe them All his malice cannot shew one Fundamentall errour and when the foule mouth of your false Martyr hath said all they are but some spottes and blemishes not the old running issues and incurable botches of Egypt The particulars shall plead for themselues These you eschue as hell While you goe on thus vncharitably both alike Doe you hate these more then Master Smith and his faction hates yours His Character shall
can they deny this right to persons qualified besides common graces with wisedome learning experience authority Eyther their Bishoppricke makes them no Christians a position which of all the world besides this Secte would be hissed at or else their handes imposed are thus farr by their rules of Separatists effectual Now your best course is like to an Hare that runnes backe from whence she was started to flye to your first hold No Church therefore no Ministery So now not the Church hath deuised the Ministery but the Ministery hath deuised the Church I follow you not in that idle Circle Thence you haue beene hunted already But now since I haue giuen account of ours I pray you tell me seriously Who deuised your Office of Ministery I dare say not Christ not his Apostles not their Successors What Church euer in the world can be produced vnlesse in case of extremity for one turn whose conspiring multitude made themselues ministers at pleasure what rule of Christ prescribes it What Reformed Church euer did or doth practise it VVhat example warrants it where haue the inferiors laid hands vpon their Superiors VVhat Congregation of Christendome in all records affoorded you the necessary patterne of an vnteaching Pastor or an vnfeeding Teacher It is an old policy of the faulty to complaine first Certainely there was neuer Popish Legend a more errand deuise of man then some parts of this ministery of yours so much gloried in for sincere correspondence to the first institution SECTION XXVIII Confused Communion of the prophane YOVR scornefull exception at the confused communion of the prophane multitude sauors strong of a Pharisee who thought it sinne to conuerse cum terrae filijs the base vulgar and whose very Phylacteries did say Touch me not for I am cleaner then thou This multitude is prophane you say and this communion confused If some be prophane yet not all for then could be no confusion in the mixture If some be not prophane why do you not loue them as much as you hate the other If all maine truthes be taught amongst some godly some prophane why will you more shunn those prophane then cleaue to those truths and those godly If you haue duely admonished him and detested and bewailed his sinne what is another mans prophanenesse to you If prophanenesse be not punished or confusion be tolerated it is their sinne whome it concerneth to redresse them If the Officers sinne must we runne from the Church It is a famous and pregnant protestation of God by Ezechiell The righteousnesse of the righteous shall be vpon him and the wickednesse of the wicked shall be vpon himself And if the fathers sower Grapes cannot hurt the childrens teeth how much lesse shall the neighbours But whither will you runne from this communion of the prophane The same fault you find with the Dutch and French yea in your owne How well you haue auoided it in your separation let Master White George Iohnson Master Smith be sufficient witnesses whose plentifull reports of your knowne vncleannesses smothered mischiefes malitious proceedings corrupt packings communicating with knowne offenders bolstering of sinns and willing conniuences as they are shamefull to relate so might well haue stopt your mouth from excepting at our confused Communion of the prophane SECTION XXIX Our Errours intermingled with Truth HOw many and grieuous errors are mingled with our Truths shall appeare sufficiently in the sequell If any want let it be the fault of the accuser it is enough for the Church of Amsterdam to haue no errors But ours are grieuous Name them that our shame may be equall to your griefe So many they are and so grieuous that your Martyr when he was vrged to instance could find none but our opinion concerning Christs descent into hell and except hee had ouer-reached not that Call you our Doctrines some generall truthes Looke into our Confessions Apologies Articles and compare them with any with all other Churches and if you finde a more particular found Christian absolute profession of all fundamētall truths in any Church since Christ ascēded into heauen renounce vs as you do we wil seperate vnto you But these truths are not soundly practised Let your Pastor teach you that if errours of practise should be stood vpon there could bee no true Church vpon earth Pull out your owne beame first we willingly yeeld this to be one of your truths that no truth can sanctifie errour That one heresie makes an Hereticke but learne withall that euery error doth not pollute all truthes That there is hay and stubble which may burne yet both the foundation stand and the builder be saued Such is ours at the worst why doe you condemne where God will saue No Scripture is more worne with your tongus and pennes then that of the leauen 1. Cor. 5. 6. If you would compare Christs leauen with Pauls you should satisfie your selfe Christ sayes the kingdome of heauen is as leauen Paule saies grosse sin is leauen Both leauens the whole lumpe neither may be taken precisely but in resemblance not of equalitie as he said well but of qualitie For notwithstanding the leauen of the kingdome some part you grant is vnsanctified So notwithstanding the leauen of sinne some which haue striuen against it to their vtmost are not sowred The leauening in both places must extend onely to whom it is intended the subiects of regeneration in the one the partners of sinne in the other So our Sauiour saith Yee are the salt of the earth Yet too much of the earth is vnseasoned The trueth of the effect must bee regarded in these speeches not the quantity It was enough for Saint Paule to shew them by this similitude that grosse sins where they are tollerated haue a power to infect others whether it be as Hierome interprets it by ill example or by procurement of iudgements and thereupon the incestuous must be cast out All this tends to the excōmunicating of the euill not to the seperating of the good Did euer Paule say if the incestuous be not cast out seperate from the Church Show vs this and wee are yours Else it is a shame for you that you are not ours If Antichrist holde many truths and we but many we must needes bee proud of your prayses We holde all his truths and haue showed you how we hate all his forgeries no lesse then you hate vs Yet the mistery of iniquity is still spun in the Church of England but with a siner threed So fine that the very eyes of your malice cannot see it yet none of our least motes haue escaped you Thankes bee to our good God wee haue the great mistery of godlinesse so fairely and happily spunne amongst vs as all but you blesse God with vs and for vs As soone shall you finde charity and peace in your English Church as heresie in our Church of England SECTION XXX Whether
as cleane as yours is schismaticall if you should measure faculties by their exercise Naturall rest should be the greatest enemie to vertue and the solitarie Christian should be miserable This power of ours is not dead but sleepeth When it awaketh vnto more frequent vse which we earnestly pray for looke you for the first handsell of it None can be more worthy as it is we offend not more in defect then you in excesse Of whom that your Lazarello of Amsterdam G. I. could say that you haue excommunications as ready as a Prelate hath a prison Christ is in many that feele him not but wee want not the power onely but the presence of Christ How so He was with vs while you were here Did he depart with you will the separatists engrosse our Sauiour to themselues and as Cyprian said of Pupianus goe to heauen alone yea confine the God of heauen to Amsterdam What insolence in this we haue him in his Word wee haue him in his Sacraments we haue him in our hearts we haue him in our profession yet this enemie dare say we want him Wherein I suppose in our censures VVe haue Peters keyes as his true successours both in office and doctrine our fault is that we vse them not as you would VVhat Church doth so your first Martyr doth as zealously inueigh against the practise of Geneua and all other reformed Congregations in this point as against vs both for the wooden dagger as he termes it of suspension and for their Consistoriall excommunications VVoe were to all the world if Christ should limit his presence onely to your fashions Heere you found him and heere you left him VVould to God wee did no more grieue him with our sinnes then you please him in your presumptuous censures in the rest you raile against our Prelates and vs Can any man think that Christ hath left peaceable spirits to goe dwell with railers Indeed yours is free-hold so you wold haue it free from subiection free from obedience This is loosenesse more then liberty You haue broken the bonds and cast the cordes from you but you miscall our Tenure VVe hate villenage no lesse then you hate peace and hold in capite of him that is the head of his body the Church vnder whose easie yoake wee doe willingly stoope in a sweet Christian freedome abhorring and reprouing and therefore notwithstanding our personall communion auoiding all abhominations In these two respects therefore of our confusion and bondage wee haue well seene in this discourse how iustly your Sion accounts vs Babylon since it is apparent for the one that here is neither confusion nor Babylonish nor without separation For the other no bondage no seruility Our Prelats being our Fathers not our Masters and if Lords for their external dignity yet not Lords of our Faith and if both these your respects were so yet so long as we doe inviolably hold the foundation both directly and by necessary sequell any railer may terme vs but no Seperatist shall proue vs Babylon you may flye whether you list would God yet further vnlesse you had more loue SECTION LII The view of the sinnes and disorders of others whereupon obiected and how farre it should affect vs. I Neede no better Analyser then your selfe saue that you doe not onely resolue my parts but adde more whereas euery motion hath a double terme from whence and whither both these could not but fall into our discourse hauing therefore formerly expostulated with you for your since you will so terme it impiety in forsaking a ceremonious Babylon of your owne making in England I thought it not vnfit to compare your choice with your refusall England with Amsterdam which it pleaseth you to intitle a substantiall Babylon impiety and madnes are titles of your owne choice let your guiltinesse be your owne accuser The truth is my charity and your vncharitablenes haue caused vs to mistake each other my charity thus Hearing both at Middleburgh and here that certaine companies from the parts of Nottingham and Lincolne whose Harbinger had beene newly in Zeland before me meant to retyre themselues to Amsterdam for their full libertie not for the full approbation of your Church not fauouring your maine opinions but emulating your freedome in too much hate of our ceremonies and too much accordance to some grounds of your hatred I hoped you had beene one of their guides both because Lincoln-shire was your Country and Master Smith your Oracle and Generall Not daring therefore to charge you with perfect Brownisme what could I thinke might bee a greater motiue to this your supposed change then the view of our so oft proclaimed wickednesse and the hope of lesse cause of offence in those forraine parts this I vrged fearing to goe deeper then I might bee sure to warrant Now comes my charitable answerer and imputes this easines of my challenge to my ignorance and therefore will needes perswade his Christian reader that I knew nothing of the first separation because I obiected so little to the second It were strange if I should thinke you gather Churches there by Town-rowes as we in England who know that some one prison might hold all your refined flocke you gathered here by Hedge-rowes but there it is easier to tell how you diuide then how you gather let your Church be an intire body inioying her owne spirituall communion yet if it be not a corrasiue to your heart to conuerse in the same streetes and to be ranged in the same Towne-rowes with Iewes Arians Anabaptists c. you are no whit of kinne to him that vexed his righteous soule with the vncleanenesses of foule Sodom That good man had nothing but ciuill society with those impure neighbours he differed from them in Religion in practise yet could hee not so carelesly turne off this torment His house was Gods Church wherein they had the spirituall communion of the Saints yet whiles the Citie was so vncleane his heart was vnquiet We may you graunt haue ciuill society with ill men spirituall communion onely with Saints Those must be accounted the world these onely the Church your owne allegations shall condemne you They are not of the world saith Christ as I am not of the world Both Christ and they were partes of the Iewish Church The Iewish Church was not so sanctified but the most were extreamely vncleane therefore wee may bee partes of a visible vnsanctified Church and yet be separate from the world Saint Paul writes to his Corinthians sanctified in Christ Saints by calling True but not long after he can say ye are yet carnall In his second Epistle Come out saith he from among them But from whom From Infidels by profession not corrupted Christians SECTION LIII The nearenesse of the State and Church and the great errours found by the Separatists in the French and Dutch Churches THE Church and State if they be two
Preach Catechize Write and Lorde thou knowest how manie of vs would doe more if we knew what more could be done for the information of thy people and remedy of this ignorance which this aduersary reproues vs to approue We doubt not but the seruice said in our Parish-Churches is as good a seruice to God as the extemporarie deuotions in your Parlors But it is an vnknowne deuotion you say Through whose fault The Readers or the Hearers or the matter Distinct reading you cannot denie to the most Parishes the matter is easie Praiers and English Scriptures if the hearers be regardlesse or in some things dull of conceite lay the fault from the seruice to the men All yours are free from ignorance free from wandering conceits we annoy you not some knowledge is no better then some ignorance and carelesnesse is no worse then mis-regard SECTION XLIII Penanâ—es inioyned in the Church of England COmming now to the Vaults of Popery I aske for their Penances and Purgatorie those Popish penances which presumptuous Confessors inioyned as satisfactorie and meritorious vpon their bold absolutions You send me to Sheet-penances and Purse-penances the one ceremonious corrections of shame inioyned and adioyned to publique confessions of vncleannes for the abasing of the offender and hate of the sinne such like as the auncient Church thought good to vse for this purpose Hence they were appointed as Tertullian speaketh in sackcloth and ashes to craue the prayers of the Church to besmeare their body with filthynesse to throwe themselues downe before Gods minister and Altar not to mention other more harde and perhaps no lesse ancient Rites and hence were those fiue stations of the Penitent whereby hee was at last receiued into the body of his wonted Communion The other a pecuniarie mulct imposed vpon some not all you foulely slaunder vs lesse hainous offences as a penaltie not as a penance I hope you denie not Sodomy Murther Robberie and which you would not theft it selfe is more deepely auenged But did euer any of ours vrge either sheet or purse as the remedy of Purgatory or inioyne them to auoide those infernall paines vnlesse we doe so our penances are not Popish and our answerer is idle SECTION XLIIII The practises of the Church of England concerning the Funerals of the dead YOur next accusation is more ingeniously malicious our Doctrine you graunt contrarie to Purgatorie but you will fetch it out of our practise that we may build that which we destroy Let vs therefore purge our selues from your Purgatorie Wee absolue men dying Excommunicate A rare practise and which yet I haue not liued to see but if Law-makers contemne rare occurrents surely accusers do not Once is too much of an euill Marke then Doe we absolue his Soule after the departure No what hath the body to doe with Purgatorie Yet for the body doe we by any absolution seeke to quit it from sinne Nothing lesse reason it selfe giues vs that it is vncapable either of sinne or pardon To lye vnburied or to be buried vnseemely is so much a punishment that the Heathens obiected it though vpon the hauocke and furie of Warre to the Christians as an argument of Gods neglect All that authoritie can do to the dead Rebell is to put his carkasse to shame and denie him the honour of seemely sepulture Thus doth the Church to those which will die in wilfull contempt Those Grecian Virgines that feared not death were yet restrained with the feare of shame after death it was a reall not imaginarie curse of Iezabel The dogges shall eate Iezabel Now the absolution as you call it by an vnproper but malicious name is nothing else but a libertie giuen by the Church vpon repentance signified of the fault of the late offender of all those externall rites of decent Funerall Death it selfe is capable of inequalitie and vnseemelinesse Suppose a iust Excommunication What reason is it that he which in his life and death would be as a Pagan should be as a Christian in his buriall What is any or all this to Purgatorie The next intimation of our Purgatorie is our Christian buriall in the place in the maner The place Holy ground the Church Church-yard c. The manner Ringing Singing Praying ouer the Corps Thus therefore you argue we burie the body in the Church or Church-yard c. therefore we hold a Purgatorie of the Soule a proofe not lesse strange then the opinion We doe neither scorne the carkasses of our friends as the old Troglodites nor with the olde Egyptians respect them more then when they were informed with a liuing soule But we keepe a meane course betwixt both vsing them as the remainders of dead men yet as dead Christians and as those which we hope one day to see glorious Wee haue learned to call no place holy in it selfe since the Temple but some more holy in their vse then others The old 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the Christians wherein their bodies slept in peace were not lesse esteemed of them then they are scorned of you Galienus thought he did them a great fauour and so they tooke it when he gaue them the liberty not only of their Churches but of their former burying-places In the same booke Eusebius commends Astyrius a noble Senatour for his care and cost of Marinus his buriall Of all these Rites of Funerall and choice of place we professe to hold with Augustine that they are onely the comforts of the liuing not helpes of the dead yet as Origen also teacheth vs we haue learned to honour a reasonable much more a Christian soule and to commit the instrument or case of it honourably to the graue All this might haue taught our answerer that wee make account of an heauen of a resurrection not of a Purgatory But we ring hallowed belles for the soule Do not those belles hange in hallowed Steeples too and do we not ring them with hallowed ropes What fancie is this If Papists were so fond of olde their folly and their belles for the most part are both out of date we call them soule-bels for that they signifie the departure of the soule not for that they helpe the passage of the soule This is mere boyes-play But wee pray over or for the dead Doe wee not sing to him also Pardon me I must needs tell you here is much spight and little wit To pray for the consummation of the glorie of all Gods elect What is it but Thy Kingdome come How vainely doe you seeke a knot in a rush while you cauil at so holy a petition Goe and learne how much better it is to call them our Brothers which are not in an harmelesse ouerweening and ouer-hoping of charity then to call them no brothers which are in a proud and censorious vncharitablenesse you cannot be content to tel an vntruth but you
and them Thus we flatter thus wee deceiue if yet they will needs run to perdition Perditio tua ex te Israel Our Clergie is so Romish as our Baptisme If therefore Romish because they came thence wee haue disproued it If therefore Romish because they haue beene vsed there we graunt and iustifie it That auncient confession of their faith which was famous thorough the world we receiue with them If they hold one God one Baptisme one heauen one Christ shall we renounce it Why should wee not cast off our Christendome and humanitie because the Romanes had both How much Rome can either challenge or hope to gaine in our Clergie and Ministration is well witnessed by the blood of those Martyrs eminent in the Prelacie which in the fresh memories of many was shed for God against that Harlot and by the excellent labours of others both Bishops and Doctors whose learned pens haue pulled downe more of the wals of Rome then all the corner-creeping Brownists in the world shall euer be able to doe while Amsterdam standeth It is you that furnish these aduersaries with aduantages through your wilfull diuisions Take Scilurus his arrowes single out of the sheafe the least finger breakes them while the whole bundle feares no stresse wee know well where the blame is our deseruings can be no protection to you you went from vs not we from you Plead not our constraint you should not haue beene compelled to forsake vs while Christ is with vs But who compels you not to call vs brethren to denie vs Christians your zeale is so farre from iustifying the wicked that it condemnes the righteous SECTION LVIII The Brownists scornefull opinion of our people How scornefully doe you turne ouer our poore rude multitude as if they were beasts not men or if men not rude but sauage This contempt needed not These sonnes of the earth may goe before you to heauen Indeed as it was of old said that all Egyptians were Physitions so may it now of you All Brownists are diuines no Separatist cannot prophesie No sooner can they looke at the skirts of this hill but they are rapt from the ordinary pitch of men Either this change is perhaps by some strange illumination or else your learned paucitie got their skill amongst our rude and prophane multitude we haue still many in our rude multitude whom wee dare compare with your teachers neither is there any so lewd and prophane that cannot pretend a scandall from your separation Euen these soules must be regarded though not by you Such were some of you but ye are washed c. The wise hearted amongst vs doe more then suspect find out our weakenesses and bewaile them yet doe they not more discouer our imperfections then acknowledge our truth If they bee truely wise wee cannot suspect them they cannot forsake vs Their charitie will couer more then their wisdomes can discouer SECTION LIX The conclusion from the fearefull answere of Separation MY last threat of the easier aunsweres of whoredomes adulteries then Separation you think to skoffe out of countenance I feare your conscience will not alwayes allow this mirth Our Consistories haue spared you ynough let those which haue tryed say whether your corrupt Eldership be more safe iudges If ours imprison iustly yours excommunicate vniustly To be in Custodie is lesse grieuous then out of the Church at least if your censures were worth any thing but contempt As Hierom said of the like It is well that malice hath not so great power as will you shall one day I feare finde the Consistorie of heauen more rigorous if you wash not this wrong with your teares That tribunall shall find your confidence presumption your zeale furie you are bold surely more then wise To proclame we haue no need of such criers doubtlesse your head hath made Proclamations long now your hand begins What proclaime yee Separation from the Communion Gouernment Ministery and worship of the Church of England what needed it Your act might haue saued your voice what should our eyes and eares be troubled with one bad obiect But why separate you from these Because they rise vp rebelliously against the Scepter of Christ The Scepter of Christ is his word he holdes it out we touch and kisse it What one sentence of it doe we wilfully oppose away with these foolish impieties you thrust a Reed into your Sauiors hand say Haile King of the Iewes and will needes perswade vs none but this is his rodde of Iron Lastly vpon what warrant Of his will and Testament you may wrong vs But how dare you fasten your lies vpon your Redeemer and Iudge What clause of his hath bid you separate We haue the true Copies As we hope or desire to be saued we can find no sentence that soundeth toward the fauour of this your act Must God be accused of your wilfulnesse Before that God and his blessed Angels and Saints we feare not to protest that we are vndoubtedly perswaded that whosoeuer wilfully forsakes the Communion Gouernement Ministerie or worshippe of the Church of England are enemies to the Scepter of Christ and rebels against his Church and annointed neither doubt we to say that the Mastershippe of the Hospitall at Norwich or a lease from that Citie sued for with repulse might haue procured that this separation from the Communion Gouernement and worshippe of the Church of England should not haue beene made by Iohn Robinson FINIS A Table of all the Sections contained in this Booke THE entrance into the worke fol. 1. The answerers Preamble fol. 3. The parties written to and their crime fol. 6. The kindes of separation and which is iust fol. 8. The antiquitie and examples of separation fol. 12. What separation is to be made by Churches in their planting or restauration fol. 16. What separation the Church of England hath made fo 19 Constitution of a Church fol. 21 Order 2. Part of Constitution how farre requisite and whether hindred by Constraint fol. 23. Constraint requisite fol. 24 Constitution of the Church of England fol. 26. The Answerers title fol. 31. The Apostasie of the Church of England fol. 33. The Separatists acknowledgements of the graces of the Church of England fol. 39. The vnnaturalnes of some principall separatists fol. 42. What the Separatists thinke themselues beholden to the Church of England for fol. 44. The Motherhood of the Church of England how farre it obligeth vs. fol. 45. The want of pretended Ordinances of God whether sinfull to vs and whether they are to bee set vp without Princes fol. 48. The bonds of Gods word vniustly pleaded by the Separatists fol. 51. The necessity of their pretended Ordinances fol. 52. The enormities of the Church in common fol. 55. The Church of England is the Spouse of Christ. fol. 56. How the Church of England hath separated from Babylon fol. 57. The Separation made
receiue absolution at his hands which as the maine actions are religious must needes be religious adoration what is the adoring of your truely humane though called Diuine seruice-booke in and by which you worship God as the Papists doe by their Images If the Lord Iesus in his testament haue not commanded any such book it is accursed and abhominable if you thinke he haue shew vs the place where that we may know it with you or manyfest vnto vs that euer the Apostles vsed themselues or commended to the Churches after them any such seruice-booke Was not the Lord in the Apostles time and Apostolicke Churches purely and perfectly worshipped when the Officers of the Church in their ministration manifested the spririt of prayer which they had receiued according to the present necessities and occasions of the Church before the least parcell of this patchery came into the world And might not the Lord now be also purely and perfecty worshipped though this printed Image with the painted and carued Images were sent backe to Rome yea or cast to hell from whence both they and it came Speake in your selfe might not the Lord be intirely worshipped with pure holy worship thogh none other book but the holy Scriptures were brought into the Church If yea as who can deny it that knowes what the worship of God meaneth what then doth your seruice-booke there The word of God is perfect and admitteth of none addition Cursed be he that addeth to the word of the Lord and cursed be that which is added and so bee your great Idoll the Communion Booke though like Nabuchadnezzars Image some parte of the matter be gold and siluer which is also so much the more detestable by how much it is the more highly aduanced amongst you Paulus in vitae Ambros. Passag twixt clifton anâ— Smith AEgyptiâ— vbi lautè epulati sunt post caenam id faciunt Socr. l. 5. 21. Platia initio Caluin Ep. ad Protect Angl. Ep. 87. Answ. to the Minist Counterp 237. Counterp 236. Omnibus aricubus grâ—gis id est Apostolis suis dedit morem orandi dimitte nobâ—s c. Aug. Ep. 89. Apolog. p. 170. Accessimus c. H Bar. ag Gyff Sep. Multitudes of Sacraments The number of sacraments seemes greater amongst you by one at the least then Christ hath left in his Testament and that is Marriage which howsoeuer you doe not in expresse tearmes call a sacrament no more did Christ and the Apostles call Baptisme and the supper sacraments yet do you in truth create it a sacrament in the administration and vse of it There are the parties to be married and their marriage representing Christ and his Church and their spirituall Vnion to which mysterie saith the Oracle of your seruice-Booke expresly God hath consecrated them there is the Ring hallowed by the said sâ—ruice-Booke whereon it must be laid for the Element there are the wordes of consecration In the name of the Father and of the Sonne and of the holy Ghost there is the place the Church the time vsually the Lords day the Minister the Parish-Priest And being made as it is a part of Gods worship and of the Ministers office what is it if it be not a sacrament It is no part of prayer or preaching and with a sacrament it hath the greatest consimilitude but an Idoll I am sure it is in the celebration of it being made a Ministeriall duty and part of Gods worshippe without warrant call it by what name you will Br. state of Christians 172. Sep. Power of Iudulgences Your Court of faculties from whence your dispensations and tolerations for non-residencie and plurality of Benefices are had together with your commuting of penances and absoluing one man for another Take away this power froÌ„ the Prelats you main the beast in a lim Sep. Necessity of Confessions In your high Commission Court very absolute wher by the Oath Ex Officio men are constrained to accuse themselues of such things as whereof no man will or can accuse theÌ„ what necessity is laid vpon men in this case let your prisons witnes D. Cosens his Apol. D. Andr. determ de Iure iurando 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Num. 5. 12. Iosh. 7. 19. 1. Sam. 14 43. G. Iohns M. Crud Trouble at Amsterd p. 132. Non potest quis in vna causa â—â—dem momento duas portare personas vt in eodem iudicio accusator sit iâ—dex Optat. Mileuit l. 7. Sep. Prosite of Pilgrâ—mages Though you haue lost the shrines of saints yet you reteine their daies and those holy as the Lords day and that with good profit to your spirituall carnall Courts from such as prophane them with the least most lawfull labour notwithstanding the libertie of the six daies labor which the Lord hath giueÌ„ as much would the Masters of these Courts be stirred at the casting of these saints daies out of the Calender as were the masters of the possessed maid wheÌ„ the spirit of diuinatioÌ„ was cast out of her Act. 16. 19. Socr. l. 5. c. 21. Est. 9. 17. Nehem. 12. 27. 1. Mac. 4 29. Ioh. 10 23. August Ep. 44. Scâ—as a Christianis Catholicis nâ—llum colâ— mortuorum nihil demque vt numen adorari quod sit factum conditum a Deo Quae toto orbe terrarum c. sicuti quoque Doâ—â—ini passio resurrectio in caelum ascensus aduentus spiritus sancti an niuersaria solemnitate celebrantur Aug. Ep. 118. Churches of Fr. Flanders in Harm confes Th. VVhites Discouer p. 19. Sep. Constrained and approued ignorance If an ignorant and vnpreaching Ministery be approued amongst you and the people constrained by all kinde of violence to submit vnto it therewith to rest as what is more vsuall throughout the whole Kingdome then let no modest man once open his mouth to deny that ignorance is constrained and approued amongst you Confer at Hampt English seruice Sep. Vnknowne deuotion If the seruice said or sung in the parish Church may be called deuotion then sure there is good store of vnknowne deuotion the greatest part in most parishes neither knowing nor regarding what is said nor wherfore Sep. What are your sheete-penances for Adulterie and all your purse-penances for all other sins then which though some worse in poperie yet none more coÌ„mon Sacco cineri incubare corpus fordibus obscurare presbyteris aduolui aris Dei adganiculari tert de pâ—â—it Can on Greg. Neocaesar 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. Sep. Touching Purgatory though you deny the Doctrine of it and teach the contrary yet how wel your practise sutes with it let it be considered in these particulars Your absoluing of men dying excommunicate after they bee dead and before they may haue Christian buriall Aug. de Ciuitat l. 1. Athenienses decreuerunt ne siquis Se intersecisset sepeliretur in agro Attico c. Sep. Your Christian Buriall in holy ground if the party will bee at