Selected quad for the lemma: christian_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
christian_n	body_n	church_n	mystical_a	1,148	5	10.4023	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A01042	Eubulus, or A dialogue, where-in a rugged Romish rhyme, (inscrybed, Catholicke questions, to the Protestaut [sic]) is confuted, and the questions there-of answered. By P.A.	Forbes, Patrick, 1564-1635.	1627 (1627)	STC 11147; ESTC S102413	101,942	162

CHVRCH If your Doctours would or if your seduced ones could vnderstand this all your Mens vayne Objections of the Church should goe in Smoake But of this matter I haue written so largelie in my Defence of our Callinges and Discoverie of the Adversarie's Dotage as I wearie heere to multiplie so manie words vnto you And this which I haue now more than once sayd sufficientlie answereth your Man's next Question Philomathes The next Question is Who kept the holie Scriptures then From the hands of wicked men Eubulus In this Interrogatour I can not tell whether hee showeth him-selfe more ignorant or impudent for first it is asked as if nothing had beene in the Bodie but the Sore If besydes the consuming Gangrene there was ever a Bodie where-in it was and though affected therewith in common yet having Members some lightlie affected some whollie free of that Evill how shamelesse is your Man in this his question Next what if the keeping of Scripture had beene even by the contagious Companie Is this eyther impossible or a new thing to the LORD And hath it not fore-going Examples of the lyke marvelous dispensation to the high commendation of His Wisdome and Providence but where-in the Keepers haue nothing to glorie of Did not the Iewes who neyther pleased GOD were Enemies to all Men who crucified the LORD of Glorie and rejected Salvation and on whom the wrath of GOD was come to the out-most yet by His wyse disponing Providence keepe so carefullie the Canon of holie Scripture as there-fore they obtayne the name of Christianorum Librarii The Libraries of Christians Made not GOD the holie Vessels of the Temple to bee carefullie kept even in Babylon till the tyme of Restitution And what wonder then if in mysticall Babylon the Vessels and Instruments of the true Sanctuarie were long both kept and captived And may not the Conformitie of Case so jumplie aunswering make vs to advert in a deepe Heavenlie Wisedome howe those former thinges were also in GOD HIS Purpose Stampe●… of thinges to come Was not the Arke of GOD kept carefullie amongst the Philistimes Of what Moode hath your Man beene Philomathes when hee mooved so ridiculous a Question Philadelphus Why should you so much marvell heereat Eubulus You did tell vs before That their Poët in this his Armie of Interrogatoures did more trust in the M●…ltitude of all than in the particular Strength of anie one And in such common Convocations it is no wonder though manie bee founde not well appoynted in their Geare And nowe verilie I count it straunge that Men professing great thinges yet should not onelie bewray a shamefull Want both of Light and Sense in laying for the onelie Rules of Examining and discerning GOD HIS Trueth What or vvhere or vvhat tyme or by what Men ought hath beene mayntayned and moste commonlie holden But even not obscurelie taxe the ALL-MIGHTIE as leaving His Church so weaklie warranded of the Way of Trueth Not when nor where not who nor what a number Moste carried Vogue is moste to bee inquyred Satan seducing with the Spirit of Slumber Soone wydelie Starres and multitudes inspyred GOD gaue vp Men to what their Hearts desyred Thus Satan's Throne was set ev'n in the Temple Trye Trueth for Errour earlie was ing yred Wee liue by Lawes and not by loose Exemple In darkest tymes some true light aye remayned Though secretlie and but of some retayned Philomathes Wee are nowe come to our last poynt and as wee account the moste choyse Shaft in all our Quyver Our Man's last part of his Discourse vpon this poynt of HAERETICKES you reduced Eubulus vnto this Syllogisme If thinges affirmed by you of your Churches can not consist with the Promise of CHRIST made to His CHVRCH and her certayne Condition there-by and if you are forced to acknowledge of the Church of Rome that which is competent onlie to CHRIST His Church then are your Churches Haereticall and the Church of Rome is the Church of CHRIST But the first is true There-fore the second all-so Eubulus That was in-deede the Syllogisme where-in I compryzed this last part of your Man 's poeticall Discourse vpon HAERETICKES Philomathes There-of graunting the Proposition you denyed the Assumption and haue accordinglie done your best to show it false in this part that anie thing is affirmed by you of your Churches where-with the Promise of CHRIST can not consist The other part of the Assumption seemeth yet to stand strong namelie that you are forced to confesse that of the Church of Rome which can not bee competent but to the Church of CHRIST and there-fore that the Conclusion at least for that part is true namelie That The Church of ROME is the Church of CHRIST This poynt confessed by you of Rome and which can bee competent to none other Companie but to CHRIST His Church is the lawfull Ordination of Pastours as you your selfe did before verie formallie take vp in this Syllogisme To giue lawfull Ordination to Pastours is competent onlie to the Church of CHRIST But Protestants acknowledge That Ordination given by the Church of Rome was lawfull Ordination There-fore the Church of Rome was the Church of CHRIST And consequentlie Protestantes are Haeretickes who haue forsaken her communion Eubulus If I haue well and clearlie over-throwne the first parte of his Assumption as you confesse Philomathes that I haue done my best to that effect consider vvith your selfe vvhat Feete the other parte there-of can possiblie finde for to stand vpon But to try this You acknowledged That I prooved no Praevaricatour in taking vp the summe of your Man his Argument but that vprightlie I haue brought it foorth in all the strength his wordes can giue it Philomathes I acknowledge it in-deede and approoue your Ingenuitie in such poyntes Eubulus Then will I as clearlie vnfolde to you the manyfolde Deceit there-of For first his whole Argument is a beguiling Sophisme à communi indiviso as the Schooles speake to bee a separate parte in the Communitie And to cleare this I will orderlie goe thorowe the partes of his Syllogisme You haue to advert the deceit of his Proposition For that lawfull Ordination of Pastoures is competent to no Companie or Bodie but to the Church of CHRIST it is moste certayne For the Ordayners of Pastoures must of necessitie haue outward lawfull Place and power in the visible CHVRCH in which except they both were 〈◊〉 did all-so obtayne Place and Power there-in they ●…uld bee no lawfull Ordayners at all Nowe because that Bodie in common in which all lawfull Ordayners are and must bee is vndoubtedlie the Church of CHRIST there-vpon to insinuate that all or moste parte of Ordayners in this Bodie are of it and though lawfull Pastoures yet eyther true Pastoures or Christians it is a Sophisticall Deceit à communi indiviso as I haue sayde And vpon your Man's Proposition thus rightlie vnderstood and as it can onlie bee admitted to bee true

yet the Disease is the third The Evill or Disease all-bee-it it bee in the Bodie yet is it not of the Bodie but the affected or diseased part is of the Bodie not in that it is affected or diseased but in that it communicateth yet all-bee-it weaklie with the Lyfe Sense and Motion of the cōmon Bodie Agayne vvee must put a difference betwixt partes diseased which all-bee-it heavilie affected and having partes readie to die yet are not past Physicke but may bee cured and quickened by the Purgation of the Worde and Spirit and such as are quyte dead in the Evill and are incurable as now no more part-taking of the common Lyfe and Sense of the Bodie as in an Hydropicke Bodie some partes will bee free by liuelie Vigour repelling the vicious Humour some not all-to-gether free but yet lesse affected some much affected and readie to die but yet in some measure communicating with the common Lyfe Sense and Motion of the Bodie some lastlie in which the vicious Humour hath quyte drowned out of all Sense and Motion Nowe to cleare this by Accommodation I say That the BODIE is the CATHOLICKE CHVRCH in which are all sorts of Christians the Evill in this Bodie but not of it is Haeresie Antichristi anisme or Papalitie Now as a much different and distinct consideration was put betwixt the Evill considered in it selfe and the partes of the Bodie affected there-with and agayne amongst affected parts a great difference betwixt those who yet retayne lyfe and Motion and are cureable and others who are dead or consumed by the Disease So Eriphilus you must not confound PAPISTES and PAPALITIE ANABAPTISTES and ANABAPTISME BROWNISTES and BROWNISME GOD forbid that wee judge so hardlie as because PAPALITIE ANABAPTISME BROWNISME c. are damnable that there-fore all who are called or professe them-selues PAPISTES ANABAPTISTES BROWNISTES are damned Because all-bee-it affected in some degrees and even dangerouselie sicke of those Evils yet they may haue the lyfe of the common Bodie part-taking thus with the common Head and bee curable by the Purgation of GOD. How manie PAPISTES ANABAPTISTES BROWNISTES are there who not knowing the deepnesse of Satan's deceit where-with some of their Seducers and manie al-so of their Companies are infected deadlie and diverted from all true lyfe are in simplicitie of Heart miscarried with glistering and plausible pretences of the Church of Zeale of Puritie singular Holynesse and such lyke having yet and all-bee-it some-what affected holding the lyfe of GOD and true Foundation And so in distinct considerations are of one and the same Companie with all good Christians and true Professours and yet are not of one and the same Companie Because al-bee-it one in the common Bodie and some measure of the common Lyfe yet separated each from other for keeping the cleane partes free not from the others partes but from the Evill where-with they are affected till GOD by the Purgation of His Word and Spirit cure them When wee dispute agaynst the Church of Rome and deny her the Name or Title of CHRIST's Church wee meane the Papalitie not all Papistes Antichristianisme not all who in simplicitie of Heart are miscarried after it which no more justlie may be excluded from the account of Christians than those two hundreth Men accounted Traytors who went with Absolom from Hierusalem those who haue received the Character of the Beast agaynst whom onlie in all the Revelation is wrath ever denounced not all such as haue received but his Name or his Number as handling this same Question in my COMMENTARIE on that Booke I haue at more length cleared And thus I hope that if you will you may see how it standeth true that all were damned eternallie who were not of our Companie and yet not all who were or are called Papistes are damned Neyther maketh this the Church of Rome to bee the Church of CHRIST because such Papistes as are saved are not saved by the destroying and consuming Gangrene where-with they are affected and which fighteth agaynst the lyfe of GOD but by the remnant of the lyfe of the Bodie so farre as yet prevayling in them that the evill hath not gotten force to suffocate or extinguish it In which respect they were and are of our Companie as in some measure joyned to and holding still the same Head al-be-it each from other separated eyther by an vnnecessarie wound of turbulent Men or by a needefull disjunction and al-be-it not all in a-lyke measure of strength and health enjoying the Common Lyfe For it is not divers Nominations whether foolishlie taken or at apperite imposed that disjoyne the so diverslie named eyther from CHRIST or from the Communion of His Bodie and Lyfe It is a grosse Sophistication in your Men what is true of the Catholicke Church to conclude that properlie of anie one part thereof but it is both grosse and impudent to conclude the Properties and Priviledges of the Bodie of the inherent and consuming Gangrene in the Bodie but not of it Eriphilus By this your Discourse Eubulus you make it an indifferent thing what eyther Companie or Religion a Man bee of And if one may attayne Salvation being Papist Protestant Anabaptist Brownist or what you will so hee professe CHRIST to what ende make you so great a stirre And why goe you about by all meanes to haue vs converted vnto you Doe you not see that whyle you would fayne appeare to haue Charitie you over-throw all Pietie Eubulus Because Eriphilus in Cities and Houses infected with Plague or Leprosie Men may liue as who eyther may escape the Contagion or bee cleansed or coole out of it is there there-fore no regarde to bee had what Citie or House a Man come into Or is all care to keepe the Cleane from the Foule superfluous Or is there no care to bee had of curing the Diseased and cleansing away the Contagion In such Companies some possiblie may liue and escape the Evill but the abode is extreame dangerous and Death more readie than Lyfe VVithout the CATHOLICKE CHVRCH it is moste true that there can bee no Salvation But it were high praesumption for the most pure worshipping Companie in all that common Bodie to confine absolutelie all Salvation within their particular Societie how-so-ever Salvation there must bee moste assured and lesse danger of Damnation So as Eriphilus in this your Objection is little eyther Pietie or Charitie or common Sense Philomathes Whether the Disease of the Bodie bee with vs or with you vvhether it bee Papalitie or Lutheranisme I will not now more dispute much lesse determine But verilie Eubulus I can not but much allow your Discourse which is no lesse solide and true than it is quicke and subtile And I commend much more your charitable judgement in this case than our Men's hard determinations of you And you haue exceeding well cleared that this charitable Opinion can nor should diminish nothing of that Care which lyeth on all Men to search and

when you haue assumed that Ordination given by the Church of Rome was lawfull Ordination yet shall you never bee able to conclude more heere-vpon than That the Church of Rome is in the CHVRCH and common Bodie Where-by it was before visible Separation vvas made from that Contagion in but not of the Bodie by divine Commandement to the VVitnesses to Come vp hither that Ordination given by the Church of ROME was lawfull Ordination And that which a little before I aunswered to your Man's Question Were all damned aeternallie Who were not of your Companie may cleare to you the infolded Fallacie of this your Man's Proposition also For vvithin the CATHOLICKE CHVRCH are CHRIST and Antichrist TRVETH and Lies WHEAT and Chaffe PASTOVRS and Wolues the true TEMPLE and the Abhomination of Desolation standing all-so in sanctis Ecclesiae loc●… in the holie places of the Church the Bodie and the consuming Gangrene Nowe vpon that which is proper and competent to the whole Bodie and there-fore rightlie propounded of the Bodie in common and which all-so is rightlie assumed not onlie of partes of the Bodie because of that Bodie but even of the Apost●…me or Gangrene because in the Bodie to conclude That the Gangrene were in the Bodie it will holde but to conclude there-of That i●… is of the Bodie it will not much lesse That it is the onelie and selfe Bodie Shall the Sore in the Bodie appropriate there-fore to it selfe or glorie of the naturall and liuelie Actions of the Bodie because it is in the Bodie yea and hath even over-gone the Bodie in common A man hath the Goare in his Legge which Legge all-bee-it in an hudge degree festered yet walketh and mooveth through the remnant of living and mooving power which it yet retayneth Nowe shall the Goare heere glorie that by it the Legge walketh and mooveth vvhere-as it is by it that the Legge creapeleth and halteth Lawfull Ordination is a good yea and proper Action of the Church of CHRIST not of the Goare or for the Goare which is in the Church and stayneth it but through the Lyfe and Power of the Head yet remayning in the Bodie al-be-it affected and having divers Members even corrupted with the Sore Papalitie is the Goare in the Church but not of it of which to conclude the proper Actions of the Church because it hath place there-in and there-vpon farther to conclude of it the Title of the Church and Bodie whose properlie the Actions are it is but a fraudulent Illuding Neyther because lawfull Ordination is a proper Action of the Church of CHRIST will it there-fore follow That who ever giue lawfull Ordination are of the Church how-so-ever they must bee in it For as I haue else-where evinced clearlie lawfull Ordination may bee taken from a Wolfe and Thiefe who as yet still retayneth outward Place and Power of ordayning Thus then Philomathe●… if your Man's Proposition bee vnderstood so as that where ever lawfull Ordination of Pastours were that Bodie considered whollie behooved to bee the Church of CHRIST I yeeld it to be●… true but if hee fraudfullie would insinuate That all with-in that Bodie who gaue Ordination were the Church or of the Church of CHRIST then is his Proposition deceitfullie false and hee concludeth nothing Now let vs see his Assumption But the Protestants acknowledge That Ordination given by the Church of Rome was Lawfull Ordination This Assumption as it may bee vnderstood in an●…e of two diverse Senses so I must accordinglie answere it For first if by the name of the Church of Rome bee vnderstood the common Bodie of the visible Church al-be-it at that tyme affected so farre even in common with that Antichristian Sore as by Fraude and tyrannicall Vsurpation the Name or Number of the Beast sitting there-in were imposed al-be-it numbers there-in never received his character I grant his assumption 〈◊〉 bee true but where-on hee shall conclude nothing eyther agaynst vs or for the Church of Rome as wee oppugne her For wee never pleaded agaynst the Bodie neyther haue wee ever separated our selues from the Bodie as your Men would fayne bynde vpon vs but wee pleade agaynst Papalitie in the Bodie and haue separated our selues from the Sore and such deadlie contagious parts as are infectiue and incurable offering still the purging Medicine of GOD HIS Word for the cure and Health of all affected Members who will admit Physicke and for destroying of the annoying and eating Evill praying GOD heartilie for the perfect convalescing of the whole Bodie And the Sore is still more than ridiculous to oppone for defence of it selfe the actions or properties of the Bodie where-in it is for with-in that Bodie even affected in common and bearing the name or number of the Beast were alwayes numbers of not onlie lawfull but also true Pastours to giue Ordination For a sicke Bodie is still a true and living Bodie but the Sicknesse in it is no part of it and is Enemie to the Lyfe there-of Next agayne if by the name of the Church of ROME your Poet vnderstand even the Papalitie or characterized Papistes that is the incurable parts deadlie festered with the Sore which onlie wee impugne then al-be-it not absolutelie yet in some respect wee grant the Ordination even so given to haue beene lawfull namelie so long as they retayned outward Place and Power of Ordination before Antichrist's full detection and separation of the revived Witnesses from the contagious Companie Because al-be-it the Ordayners were Wolues and Thieues yet they were not in common knowne to bee so but retayned still with all in common the reputation if not of true yet of lawfull Pastours In which case the receiving of Ordination from them was nothing praejudiciall to the sincere Receiver of the same who had not as yet espyed them to be Traytors And this Lawfulnesse was not because it was ministred by the Sore or deadlie festered parts in the Bodie but because those festered parts were still in the Bodie of the Church and in common all-so esteemed to bee of it and al-be-it dead incurable and contagious yet were not cut off outwardlie from the Bodie thus retayning still the account of Members al-be-it in effect they were none but a deadlie consuming Evill If your Poet poore Man had eyther vnderstoode or considered what I thinke I haue playnlie layde before you if hee had not beene first a verie shallowe Ignorant and vnstable PROTESTANT and now I warrand you no profound PAPIST howe could this haue so much stupified him and casten him into such a Musing that in the REFORMATION of the CHVRCH wee made no question to receiue and vse the MINISTRIE of PRIESTES ordayned by the CHVRCH which hee calleth ROMANE For as the Bodie all-bee-it affected yet was the Bodie So the Calling of the MINISTERS therein all-bee-it taynted and corrupted in common yet was a CALLING and that according vnto the state and tyme lawfull And your Poet his Muzing hath heere-in so marred his Memorie that