Selected quad for the lemma: christian_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
christian_n	believer_n	church_n	visible_a	1,349	5	9.2573	5	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A87687	Baptism without bason. Or, Plain Scripture-proof against infant-baptism, I. By way of answer to Mr. Baxter's arguments, and to the exercitations of Mr. Sidenham, teacher to a church a[t] Newcastle, concerning infants baptism: for which that their pretended consequences are from concessions not to be granted, and from Scriptures as mistaken, and absolutely wrested, is clearly discovered. With II. Several questions and answers, positively holding out the minde of Christ in baptizing of believers onely; and that the magistrates may be induced more and more to encourage the preaching thereof in publike. III. A declaration written to the election of grace, who for want of information are of contrary judgment. Written by William Kaye, minister of the Gospel at Stokesley.	Kaye, William.	1653 (1653)	Wing K32; Thomason E715_13; ESTC R207264	49,935	54

22.16 17 18. compared with Gal. 3.6 7 8 9. Rom. 4.12 16. Now that Abraham was a believer before Gen. 17. so that God did bless Abraham and that circumcision did seal his Faith he had though not as the Apostle saith by circumcision Rom. 4.11 I do grant but that God gave Abraham in circumcision more then Abraham begged of God Gen. 15.3 48. or that God did give Abraham more then an inheritance of which circumcision was a token Gen. 17.4 11. this I defend and that therefore circumcision was not an administration to make Church-members I desire this being so much mistaken to produce these reasons to the contrary 1. Because they did not circumcise in the Temple or by a Priest but a woman Exod. 4.25 and others did circumcise Josh 5.3 2. A stranger by circumcision was not said to be of the Church but as one of the Nation Exod. 12.48 and if any refused to be circumcised they were not to be excommunicated out of the Church but to be cut off out of the Nation Gen. 17.14 and that the Church is not the Nation Reason the seventh proves 3. The Female was not circumcised and yet Hanna and other Women were of the Church and if in the Man the Woman might be admitted into the Church why might not the Woman in the Man be baptized and receive the Lords Supper since they would have baptism to succeed circumcision 4. Because God said that the Covenant of which circumcision was a signe Gen. 17.11 was a covenant in the flesh Gen. 17.13 and God did never promise more then a temporall inheritance in that covenant Gen. 15.3.18 compared with Gen. 17.3 4 5 8. 5. In the case of Dinah marrying with Sichem all that was desired of him was this that they should be one people if Sichem c. would be circumcised which was done without any change of religion Gen. 34.22 24. and though it might be supposed as we do with our children they would endeavour to learn them and make them submit to their Religion yet all this endeavouring like the paines that we take in the nurture and admonition of our Children did not admit or make them visible Church-members but onely made preparation for their admission as the next reason will fully clear it 6. Because to the Jews God said Gather my Saints together unto me those that have made a covenant with me by sacifice Psal 50.5 and Zeph. 3.9 it s prophesied both of Jews and Christians that they should serve God with one consent Therefore Children not sacrificing whereby there might be a visible appearance of Faith and Repentance and they not being willing or knowing to serve God with one consent could not be of the visible gathered Church or they were not visible Church-members for to make a visible Church member there must be something appearing in the party that is to be admitted so as to give his consent but in a Child we have or see nothing that represents the face of a Church-member 7. Children by circumcision were not made Church-members because after they had been circumcised they were presented unto the Lord in the Temple and our Saviour did no more for them when they were brought unto him then bless them by praying for them Mat. 19. 8. God was said to have a Church in the Wilderness Act. 7.38 and yet for forty yeers together they were not circumcised and therefore circumcision made not a Church if baptism as Mr. Sidenham saith doth not make one for so he saith pag. 166. Baptisme doth not forme a Church 9. Because the Gentiles had a Church as Mr. Baxter hath notably proved by Job c. and Abraham was of the Church before and yet the Gentiles were never circumcised and Abraham had not been circumcised but that God made circumcision a signe of the covenant which was to give him a seed by Sarah and to make him a Father and Sarah a Mother of divers Nations Gen. 17.6 16. for as all Nations whether Jews or Gentiles are blessed in Abraham this was not by circumcision but by oath and promise made to Abraham Gen. 22. ●6 17 18. as the Apostle Gal. 3.9 compared with Heb. 6.13 14. fully declareth and therefore we do not look at circumcision that it did admit unto the Church or that baptism should succeed it circumcision relating to temporal promises 10. Because these words in the covenant whereof circumcision is a signe I will be thy God and o thy seed after thee were onely spoken of God that he might manifest himself to be a God in providence to make his temporal promise good to Abraham and such strangers that should sojourne with him God excepting against none in circumcision as he doth in point of salvation and therefore God expresly declared his meaning that in respect of the covenant whereof circumcision was a signe he was their God to make good his promise to give them the Land of Canaan Levit. 26.44 45. and in that he condemned and tooke away this circumcision making a new covenant not according to the old covenant declares that the old covenant had no spiritual promises Heb. 8.6 7 8 9. 11. That Mr. Sidenham and Mr. Baxter making circumcision to bring Children into the Church is but from their own wrested consequences for there is no such Scripture that saith Circumcision makes a Child a member of the Church neither is there any Scripture that can prove circumcision a covenant of pure grace or that baptism doth succeed it upon which they ground their conclusion or consequence 12. If baptism should succeed circumcision then it could not be said that baptism is the like figure of Noahs Ark 1 Pet. 1.21 in which there was no Children nor did any enter into it but such as believed the word preached unto them 13. They were debtors to the Law not by covenant or contract the Law being made four hundred and forty yeers after circumcision Gal. 3.17 and therefore they were debtors to the Law by consequence as a thing that followed and was after imposed upon the people so that they were not circumcised upon that account 14. They were twice circumcised The first time in token they should inherit the promised Land And the second time as being come to possess it Joshua 5.2 therefore circumcision did not make them Church-members The great thing then which Mr. Sidenham pag. 9. speaketh of in this controversie the nature of the covenant being fully and plainly discovered it s too apparent that he hath been too much discipled by the Jewish rabbies in making the Covenant by their traditions and doctrine greater then ever God intended it whereby the promise and oath God made to Abraham whereby he is the Father of the faithful hath been over-looked Therefore Mr. Sidenham failing to make good his hinge and maine weight in thinking to make all promises to Abraham as Father to the faithful to be held out in circumcision and that it was a seal of the covenant

make him tedious to the Reader as what he hath alleadged in Christ's being baptized by John chap. 19. pag. 162. with his conceited Question Whether Christ did preach before he did baptize All these Chapters being but strife of words and doubtful disputations I not striving for mastery but onely as engaged endeavouring to undeceive the deluded people in holding forth the Truth I seeing no edification for me to follow the flying shadows of needless conjectures altogether as unedifying as endless genealogies Therefore onely to the last Chapter wherein Mr. S. holdeth forth pag. 166. That Baptism doth not form a Church I answer That though Baptism doth no more form a Church then it formeth a believer no Church hath been found or acknowledged which hath not been baptized Therefore though through the falling away from the Faith Christians can experience that the work of grace in giving a seal to the Ministery and thereupon there hath been a yeelding up of one another to serve God with one consent whereby a Church hath been gathered before these members as in the Churches of all Independents they have been baptized yet if the said Independent Churches should in mercy have their eys opened as some can experience to see and submit to the minde of Christ in the Order of the Gospel whereby the first that is in baptism be last discovered then in this extraordinary work of grace the work of grace upon full trial being approved of that the said Church be found to be gathered Saints and the seal of the Ministery then the said Church as a houshold of faithful without breaking their relation of Pastor and Flock they may be baptized For we must not build upon another mans foundation Christ himself owning the man that cast out devils though he followed not the Apostles And though the Spouses sister want two brests yet was she owned for their sister Cant. 8.8 So that whatsoever work of God is wrought it is to be acknowledged provided that the Pastor of the said Church be baptized by such a Pastor of a Church that is under the practice of Baptism Thus much in answer to Mr. S's book as it relates unto Baptism To conclude I shall onely make answer to that which Mr. S. first objected against the doctrine of Baptism and concerning the denying of singing of Psalms in his Epistle Dedicatory Mr. S. Epist Dedic I have treated upon these two subjects viz. denying of Infant-baptism and singing of Psalms which eat mens affections and creep at the heart like a gangrene insensibly An Opinion that hath been always ominous and of a wonderful strange influence accompanied with the most dangerous retinue of Errours since the first Embryo of it was brought forth whether by the judgement of God or from its natural and secret connexion with other principles of darkness I will not determine onely God hath shewed some black characters upon it in every nation where it hath prevailed though we cannot but say Many Saints are innocently under the power of it To which I return this answer That Hypocrites drawn out of the element of the world receiving the new wine of the doctrine of the kingdom of heaven into the old bottles of their hearts Hymenius-like have made shipwrack of their profession makes not the Opinion always ominous nor doth the abuse of drink condemn the lawful enjoyment of the creature For if you had but tasted you might have experienced that the doctrine of baptizing of believers doth like all other Truths Joh. 17.17 so sanctifie and work through Christ such a spiritual union with Christ and all his Saints that indeed a blinde and profane soul cannot live in the element of it And therefore if any such appear that have owned it they either forsake the Church or they are cut off by the Church as withered branches however the evil complained of if ever it be visible though a Gangrene may be cured with the knife of Excommunication Yet on the contrary such inevitable evils attend Infant-Baptism that it is the very heart-blood and pulse of the soul of Antichrist and the onely partition-wall which hinders the communion of Saints and the greatest let to the gathering and uniting of all Saints into Truth and Church-fellowship that can be So that as long as it is in practice the smoak shall not fully vanish out of the Temple And therefore such black characters do point it out it being built upon the foundation of wrested consequences implicite faith blinde charity and pretended antiquity that Antichrist himself and all the profane sons of the world plead their own birthright-priviledge in it and rest under the cover or shelter of it Though I must with Mr. Sidenham conclude that many Saints do acknowledge it and as owned by the world do decry it And therefore it is to be hoped that as the Saints shall be more fully informed Saint-like they will renounce it and will submit Christ like unto the Ordinance of Baptism The second thing in controversie is the denying of singing of Psalms of which Mr. S. saith thus I hope when mens Hearts come in tune their Voices will likewise The former denies more fundamental principles as the Covenant in its extent and subjects the freeness of grace the riches of it working in the New Testament and contracts the Gospel leaving more grace visible in the Legal and Old Testament-dispensation then in the New Answ As concerning Singing of Psalms Hymns and Spiritual Songs though I hope to make these to appear to be distinct which Mr. S. conceiveth to be individually united yet as to the point in controversie about Singing this I have to say That as Christ shall more and more raign he shall rouze up and gather his Saints to be baptized into one body 1 Cor. 12.14 and united into and acted with the Spirit of Christ and his Apostles that their hearts will be in tune That as Independent Churches cast off Infant-sprinkling so Churches of Christ under baptism will return as some of them for the present are unto singing And yet I finde that those that are not under the present practice dare not deny their title to the Ordinance of Singing But that denying Infant-baptism is worse or that there is any evil at all but a submission to the Ordinance and Commission of Christ in denying of Infant baptism I must needs therefore further say That to pretend baptism of Infants to be helpful to exalt free grace is absolutely to deny the grace of God to be free which is conveyed without the Ordinance of baptism And that the childe of a reprobate may be as soon under the Covenant of Free-grace as the childe of a believer And that no man can judge who are under the Covenant of Free grace and who are not And therefore we do not baptize upon this account but as we see grace faith and consent visibly appearing And therefore their pretended light that will baptize the children of believers onely as

the Father and of the Son and of the holy Ghost c. Answ That as a Scholar he hath ingenuously acknowledged the original Go ye therefore and disciple unto me that is Go and teach I do agree with him and so I shall if with the like ingenuity he appear in the interpretation of the words thus rightly translated unto us Mr. B. p. 4. Before I come to argue I will tell you what is meant by a disciple A disciple may be taken in the larger sence as those that are actually believers and then to the making of a disciple some things may concur effective and some things conditionaliter Answ If Mr. B. had gone the plain way to worke as his title so often proclaimeth then he would have lightned one candle by another the first being lightned from the fire of the Altar I mean he would have explained the Scripture or commission of Baptism by some other Scripture but failing herein he hath supplyed the want with Logical distinctions a strange voice which the sheep cannot hear and therefore as not acquainted with conditionaliter and effective they cannot give the right hand of fellowship to Mr. B's as being none of Christs disciple and therefore while I had thought to have returned an answer to those distinctions Mr. B. having reconciled himself in telling us what disciple he will pitch upon in his next chapter there you may expect a further discovery M. B. chap. 3. p. 3. By Disciple I mean as in the text those that are de jure or incompleatly Disciples Answ If this be the Disciple you pitch upon out of the great choice that you afforded us It s strange that Christ that is most glorious in all his works and in whom the Saints are compleat should command to baptize an incompleat Disciple truly M. B. it were well you had found some other master for him and not Christ As if Christ should say Go and make incompleat Disciples which indeed is no less then an implicite contradiction all being compleat in Christ Col. 2.10 And I wonder M. B. should think a Child an incompleat Disciple if he will walk by his own pretended light in that p. 132. he saith that indirectly and remotely the discipling of the parent is the discipling of the seed and yet the seed for all this though upon his account it be twice discipled yet it is still incompleat and will be so for all M. B. can do though he had his desire that Children should be cofirmed that is to speak plain English Bishopped p. 120. And therefore M. B's distinction may suit with the Poets fiction which by casting of stones created Disciples which at first were in compleat or rude but afterwards were more compleated and therefore it would too much savour of partiality to admit of his Logical distinctions seeing in stead of expounding we find the text by M. B. so confounded and overvailed with blind and impertinent distinctions for indeed to tell you the naked truth baptisme doth not make a Disciple or a believer though believing Disciples so called by grace ought to be baptized that is buried or covered over or humbled to God in water in the name of the Father Son and holy Ghost so that to be a Disciple and baptized are two distinct things though both are united or married together in the same Gospel-Ordinance and therefore M. B. ought not to imagine as the blind world conceiteth that baptisme maketh a Disciple or believer or as they say a Christian for to be a believer and Disciple is to be a Christian who as a Christian he cannot be so adjudged except he be baptized And therefore all the course that M. B. taketh in sprinkling or pouring water upon the face of the Child will not do the feat Neither can that which M. B. saith p. 14. be approved of that the matter of a Disciple in a natural way is nothing but our being be granted him for if by nature or as we have a natural being we are Disciples then the worke is done to our hand and Christ might have saved his Disciples a great deal of labour in commanding them first to disciple by teaching and then to baptize And if by nature or our being we have that miraculous priviledge why are we called by nature the Children of disobedience so that for any thing I can find as none of M. B's distinctions are proved by Scripture he cannot prove that his incompleat disciple either in matter or forme is the taught Disciple that is commanded by Christ to be baptized And therefore I would not have troubled my self any further but that I find M. B. so averse against the way of discipling according to the express command of Christ in his text which he pretendeth to explain unto us as like the envious man he denies his own discipling saying He was discipled by education p 133. whereby he puts out both of his own eyes whereby we might lose one of our eyes or he might have a sandy foundation to raise an argument against discipling by teaching therefore I have this further to tell him If education made him a Disciple then baptisme did not and questionless if he were well educated he heard the word and was Timothy like taught the Scriptures of a Child which through the Spririt of grace are able to make us wise unto salvation and though a work of grace cannot be discovered yet all education and knowledge and waiting are little enough or it is but the means that God hath appointed for discipling and yet with M. B's leave whatsoever he thinks yet we judge in the rule of truth that to attain to common knowledge of the outward profession of Christ doth not make a Disciple except the day-star hath so risen in his heart and his judgement be so brought unto victory that he as is prophesied Psal 110.4 be willing as well as able in the day of power to submit as called or desire as the Eunuch did in his own person to be baptized till this work be wrought we judge one is not as before baptism they ought to be fully discipled for such a discipling as M. B. speaketh of unto which he had attained by education suits with or may shake hands with his incompleat Disciple And therefore if the Disciples of John being ignorant of the holy Ghost were discipled again and rebaptized for any thing I can see the work through disaffection is not so compleat but that Priscilla and Aquila may schoole great Apollo and most may learn to be Disciples seeing the incompleat Disciple which M. B. speaketh of in his interpretation or rather prevarication of the commission of Christ cannot be approved of And here M. B. giving over his text I mean speaking no more of it then of the first words Go and disciple he not as I expected proceeding to baptize them therefore in regard our difference lieth very much concerning the right use of the element of water which