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A19569 A triall of our church-forsakers. Or A meditation tending to still the passions of unquiet Brownists, upon Heb.10.25 Wherein is iustified, against them, that the blessed Church of England 1 Is a true Church. 2 Hath a true ministry. 3 Hath a true worship. By Robert Abbot ... Abbot, Robert, 1588?-1662? 1639 (1639) STC 60; ESTC S100380 140,135 286

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the whole saving word is rejected This is that unbeliefe which doth unchristian a man and woman and if it be finall is a state of Paganisme Though it may be there be such parents in the eyes of God yet I thinke few or none are such among Christians in the eies of the church They will all professe to believe in Christ and when they are convincingly moved will lament their sins and promise to doe so no more To the application of the argument to fathers and mothers of bastards in a christian church that they are such is an unsufficient plea. And whether they bee so to the cutting of them off from Christianity in generall and making their bastards unbaptizable judge by what is said and what followeth Secondly they give another reason thus They that have no grace already conferred are not to bee made partakers of the signe and seale of grace But bastards have not grace conferred they neither actually believing nor being borne of christian parents and therefore they are not to bee baptized I answer they meane not I thinke the inward grace of actuall faith such as Abraham had for then why was Ishmael circumcised But they meane the outward grace of having right to the signe and seale of the covenant and thus their application to bastards is false understand their argument thus They that have not the outward grace of right to the signe and seale of the covenant are not baptizable What though Abraham had true actuall faith when hee submitted to circumcision doth it follow that all that succeed him in circumcision should have so also Prove that and turne Anabaptists take away circumcision and baptisme from all infants Therefore I deny the application that bastards of wicked christians have not the grace of right to baptisme They have a right to receive that right whereto their parents have a right to convey and certainely these have a right to convey the right of baptisme to their children both as they are believers of the word of salvation by Christ and as they professe to stand in such a way though they are wicked and ungodly in particular acts They have a right also to the offers of grace in a christian church and so have a right to baptisme for heerein God offereth grace by way of signe and seale of Gods covenant To understand this conceive these two points First the difference of the offer of grace to them within and to them without the church They without have a right to it in the word for I may preach the word to a Iew Turke Heathen if hee come within my limit and will heare But they within have a right unto it in the word and sacraments according to Christs commission Secondly the priviledge they have by it is not to bee graffed into the body of Christ according to the election of grace but according to the profession of the Gospel and the state of the church visible heere Thus their reasons are voide from proving that bastards are not baptizable Now marke what reasons they make and finde against them and what they answer First some of the bastards predecessours Objection 1 have beene believers and this is sufficient to admit them to baptisme according to the promise made to believers and to their posterity This is a poore objection thus propounded For what Iew Turke or Pagan is there who may not pretend that some of their predecessours have beene believers if the Gospell have beene preached thorough the world They must be predecessours in a christian church in outward covenant with God But let us see their answer They give a text to prove the contrary and require a text to oppose them Their text is Saint Paules who speaking of immediate parents saith except one of them are believers their children are uncleane but now by the faith of one they are holy They will not prove I hope that believers children are holy by an infused or derived holinesse from them for from them they are the children of wrath but onely that they have a foederall holinesse by which they have a right to bapti●me Neither will they prove that it is necessary to a childs baptisme to have immediate predecessours such believers as doe in all things contrary to such sinnes as doe wound or waste a good conscience It is enough i● one be a believet that is a doctrinall christian though like the worst in the church of Corinth If hee bee a Iew the Apostle calls him circumcision and if hee professe faith in Christ hee is a christian for his owne and his childes baptisme What though the Apostle speakes of immediate parents there where hee speakes of a church newly converted to the faith from heathenisme and so to be a church that wanted predecessours before times may wee not therefore make use of other texts more comfortable for us who have had the Gospel a long time and that sealed with such christian bloud If now they require a text to oppose them let them take that The promise is to you and to your children But they answer that the unbeliever and his children are not the posterity of the believer I say yes if they be members of a visible church Those wicked kings of Iudah that were idolaters were the posterity of Abraham and David and had right to the promi●es made to them yea and to the ever blessed Messias who descended from them If they repented not they had no inward comfort from him yet had they outward right unto him by vertue of the promises made to Abraham and David But they say can uncleane bastards be the seed of the believing I answer that I approve that in these termes they expresse hatred to the sinne but in that they forget a foederall cleannesse in uncleane christians children by vertue of Gods promise to believers foregoing them they goe the right way not onely to fill he I with bastards but with true begotten children whose immediate parents are too often guilty of greater sinnes then whoredome though that bee damnable enough Secondly they finde another objection Objection 2 God hath promised to shew mercy unto a thousand generations to them that love him and keepe his commandements Therefore bastards of wicked Christians are baptizable The reason should have been put thus God hath promised to shew mercy to a thousand generations of Israelites in outward communion with him for otherwise it followes not that the bastards of christians are baptizable But what answer they They say Solution 1 three things first they say it followes not because bastards are not the generation of them that love God and keepe his commandements Take heed was not Davids child got of the wife of Vrijah the generation of them that loved God at all though in that act David loved him not nor was Ishmael the generation of Abraham that loved God though in
was come home to God command Iudah to serve the God of Israel Did not Iosiah cause and make his people to stand to his covenant to serve even to serve the Lord our God Is it not lawfull for good Princes in reforming to follow these examples may not they binde their people some way by oath bond subscription or taking and giving hands for better performance of duties of religion why may not our good Princes follow those old patternes in reforming They say because it is not found in the new testament Bee it so yet it is found in the old testament and not condemned in the new nor any other order prescribed in such a case Surely seeing in this new devised way they will bee tried by none but the new testament they shall be cast at this bar in their own courses Let them give but one text to prove any man called or ordained to a Pastours office in the church by a company of private men alone and I shall give them another text to prove any thing they please I can yet reade of none but Apostles Evangelists and the eldership that made ministers there If they can shew no text I am sure they have no such Pastours as they ought but I am sure we have true kings who have power in reforming to compell wicked people to be better then they are because they beare not the sword for nought Yea but say they lastly put case they entred upon necessarie knowledge that they made a covenant in receiving the word and sacraments that they were voluntarily or forced yet lawfull professours when they stated a visible church yet they were many of them baptized when they were the seed of them that were not members of the visible church Conceive it thus If a man be a member of the visible church then his children have a right to baptisme before they actually professe the faith by vertue of that promise I will be thy God and the God of thy seede But if hee bee not a member of a visible church as a Iew Turke or Pagan then have they no right to it before they actually confesse as the Eunuch did Now the Brownists keeping a great coile about the jointing of members into a church as if it were all one to be jointed into the body of Christ coapted and fitted to our head Christ for life and salvation and to bee a member of the visible church in outward communion and fellowship of Christ for the outward priviledges of the church they have I say espied among many others this one crime in the Dutch and French churches that they baptize the seede of them that are no members of the visible church much more when they looke upon us whom they account not members of a true visible church must they quarrell if all bee of his mind if our first reformers be not members of a true visible church and yet their children are baptized before they are of yeares to professe their owne faith SECT 9. A question by the way about baptizing Bastards of impenitent Christians I Confesse I never yet talked with any Brownist about this particular yet because I finde too many conscious people hanging after forraigne novelties and gazing upon with admiration the membring and dismembring in visible churches who when they heare of Christians lawfully begotten children denied baptisme beginne to wonder that christians bastards should be admitted Therefore to cleare both as God shall in able I shall labour to satisfie others as I have done some in this question whether bastards are baptizable while their mothers are in their sinnes of adultery or fornication and whether men ought not to stay their baptisme untill they be reconciled to God in open church which is publickely scandalized by her fact and from which she hath dismembred her selfe by her misdeed In this I finde two questions inwrapt in one whether bastards are baptizable and whether men ought not to stay such baptisme till the harlot bee reconciled to God and this be done in the open church scandalized from which by her fact she hath cut herselfe off by her sinne I shall first labour to state these questions and then the cases will more easily appeare The estate of the first may be thus set By bastards such children are meant as come not into the world by lawfull acts of marriage and by baptizable is meant such as have a right to the sacrament of baptisme in the church And the question is not whether bastards in generall are baptizable for so it is certaine that all are not as the bastards of Iewes Turkes and Pagans who have no right to baptisme but by personall confession But the question is whether the bastards of the professours at large in a christian church which is in covenant with God for the outward priviledge of the church at least have right to baptisme of these the inquiry is because in the second part of this question is spoken of the mothers reconciling to God in the open church offended The state of the second question must be laid by considering two things 1 The persons enquired of· 2 The duty of these persons The persons enquired of are Men and it is too generall a terme For it cannot meane any men of that assembly where such a bastard is presented for they have no authority knowne to mee from scriptures to meddle in any censure ecclesiasticall These onely are to meddle heere who are sent and inspired with delegated service and mininistery from Christ either immediately or mediately Neither can it meane the Pastors and deputed teachers of that assembly for they have but a dependent authority according to the lawes of Eutaxy and good order in the church Presbiters under Bishops Bishops under Synods Synods under Councels and Councels under the word of Christ in plaine scriptures Our highest appeale is to our head Christ Iesus For if ordinary Pastours had such independent power in such cases thinke whether it would not set up a Pope in every parish especially considering that wee have neither precept nor president in all the new testament of such power given to any assembly or Presbiter that ever I could yet finde By men ther●fore wee must understand the publick governours of that church that is the King Prince state Bishop and convocation by their lawes ecclesiasticall for the good of the church The question enquires of those in respect of order decree and command and of these in respect of Canons and executions accordingly Thus I take up the minde of the question or else I know not what it would have Next consider in the question the duty of these persons whether they ought to stay bastards from baptisme By this two things may bee meant denying baptisme but no man would utterly exclude such and suspending baptisme and of this is the question for it makes a double limitation first till the harlot be reconciled to God In this
inflicted for parents sinnes Though the baptisme of children of believers is not to remunerate them for their parents righreousnesse but a blessing upon them for Gods promise sake to believers yet to deprive infants of it meerely for parents sake is a punishment for parents sinnes Thirdly they say that the Prophet Ezekiel speaks of actuall sinnes of great ones and not of little childrens sinnes and when they have sayd thus they confesse it is not to the purpose heere Yet consider this point Can any man be guilty of the personal sinne of another with whom onely there is communion of suffering and not of sinning God forbid and yet such is the case of infants from us Lastly they aske what danger is it if bastards should bee unbaptized till they are of yeares I answer there are dangers more then one The danger of injustice at large in withholding a right from them yea may I not call it sacriledge The danger of the neglect of this ordinance which is the ordinary way of God for entrance into the visible church And the danger of elevating baptisme above the mind of Christ who will have grace offered to all entring christians in it yea and given by way of promise and covenant which shall not faile to the receivers Lastly they yet finde another reason against Objection 7 them that though the parents of bastards have greatly sinned yet we ought to judge charitably of them and of their children I lay it downe otherwise thus They who at least in the judgement of charity are christians ought not to have their children kept from baptisme but the parents of bastards in a christian church are at least in the judgement of charity christians for otherwise they were rebaptizable therefore their children ought not to be kept from baptisme Now take their answer They say the judgement of charity ought alwaies to be according to truth This is true of truth probably presumed But what doe they assume that whoremongers and harlots cannot bee judged such while they are in their sinnes which make them unbelievers But say I pray Is their sin properly against faith or manners Is the bad working or idlenesse of faith in this sinne against manners of such power as utterly to roote out their doctrinall faith which yet is sufficient to intitle their children to baptisme If they answer but these demands well they shall see their owne errours Thus have I taken in by the way a view of th●s question which ●s not an every day doubt and is usefull ●or the quieting of many godly persons in this particular and my conclusion is this That in the reforming of our visible church which consisted of visible christians before though much out of order wee their seed in their right and so in a right of our owne were more purely baptized and so made true members of our true visible church whatsoever Brownists plead to the contrary For as bastards of christian parents have a right to bee baptized into their parents christianity so much more had wee into ours Our predecessours had a state whereof they repented and so have these of which they should If neither of them repented as they should yet were both of them true christians and so both their posterities were rightly baptized and made true members of a true visible church i● not for such governement as Brownists dreame of yet to be governed as members of Gods house for conviction or conversion to life SECT 10. Brownists third exception against us about the head of our Church WEe having now done what the Brownists do mean by a true church and the falsitie of it and with the entrance into it wee are now come unto their third exception taken from the head of a true visible church They finde from time to time our kings to interpose their authority over every particular assembly in our church for the keeping of them in pious and peaceable wayes according to the lawes of God and our church and common-wealth and because they fansie no visible churches but particular congregations which must bee fully furnished from Christ with power of governing themselves and they doe perceive withall that the supreame authority of a king over churches doth according to kingly duty hinder their erecting of new waies and tie them up to observe the laudable customes of the church therefore as if they willingly subscribed to the speech of Gallio that wicked deputy of Achaia If it were a matter of wrong or wicked lewdnesse O yee Iewes reason would that I should beare with you but if it be a question of words and names and of your law looke yee to it for I will be no judge of such matters they cry out wee have no head but Christ he shall rule over us we will wait upon him onely but you have another head and that is the king whose lawes you follow for government of the church and upon whom ye do depend for building or pulling downe whatsoever Christs law saith Now to pricke and open this blister consider 1 That Christ is the head of the catholicke Church 2 That Christ is the head of particular Churches 3 That Christ is the head of our church 4 That the headship of the king doth not hinder but helpe this and that according to Christs word That Christ is the head of the catholicke church no christian will deny or if hee doe he will bee convinced by scriptures which teach him to bee the head of the body even his church He hath in him most perfectly whatsoever may be for the life and salvation of his church He hath all things subjected to him for the behoofe of his church He takes up all debates suites quarrels and controversies betwixt God and his church as a counsellour advocate yea husband for his wife Hee is the Prince of our salvation the proper fountaine of all spiriruall life and governement No head is such an head as hee is Politicall heads give the influence of civill favour Oeconomicall heads of houshold and wedlocke favours but this all-sufficient spirituall head of saying favours spiritual blessings in heavenly things This therefore is certaine that thousands in this catholicke church doe runne into folly rebellion and blasphemy Into folly because they doe things without the generall or particular direction of Christ Christ is not in all their counsels Into rebellion because they doe things against the direction of Christ let Christ say what he will they will do what they list Into blasphemy because they think not Christs counsel worth the while s● long as they can shift without it it is good when they are sicke but if well it is but as Elias to Ahab a troubler of Israel These may be in the catholicke church they are not of it because Christ is not their head by infusion of grace Secondly it is true also that he is the head of particular churches and visible assemblies Therefore
members before they are cast out But they dreame of other members who must bee chosen into their congregations for governement as those that have a full right from Christ to give voices for ordinations elections excommunications absolutions and the like as if all the members of a common-wealth must bee counsellours if not kings but where will they finde in Christs word that none are members of a visible church but those that are admitted members for government I cannot tell except they have a new testament not knowne to us It is true that Peter calleth Gods people a chosen generation a royal priest-hood an holy nation But I hope he doth not write to any particular visible church but to the dispersed saints in divers churches that were elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father None will deny these to be true members of the churches where they live and if they doe deny others who have not such high graces as these had to be members of a visible church as well as they though notwithstanding their profession to bee servants of Christ they flatter with their mouth and lie with their tongues because their heart is not right with God neither are they stedfast in his covenant they must denie the whole course of scripture which must judge them at the latter day But say they how can the wicked bee members of the church of Christ seeing Christ is not their head Christ hath told no man thus For though he be not their head by infusion of saving and sanctifying graces of the spirit unto eternall life yet is he their head as they are his members by professed governement A good husband is the head of a wicked wife and a good king is the head of wicked subjects so Christ is the head of wicked members to draw them to better courses or to have them brought forth to bee slaine before him because they will not that hee rule over them as he should But say they the visible church is the kingdome of heaven and wicked men are not the members of that The kingdome of heaven stands in righteousnesse peace and joy in the holy Ghost of this kingdome they are not members But the kingdome of heaven is like unto a net that gathered of every kinde of this kingdome they are members till Christ cast away the bad in the end of the world They are not in this kingdome by the power of godlinesse they are in this kingdome by profession and presence among and with the meanes of salvation till the kingdome be removed from them But say they wicked men are dead and how can dead members bee members of a living body Iust as an unfruitfull or rotten branch is a branch till it be cut off that bough is dead say wee yet is a bough That member is gangrenated yet is a member till the Chirurgions knife comes and hath done its office Sardis was a true visible church yet had but a name to live but was dead so may wicked men be in the church as members for outward communion but not for inward comfort Well say they put case that wicked Christians are members of the visible church till they are cut off yet they should bee cut off in a true church whereas they continue in yours and are not cut off Put case this charge were true yet Christ learnes not to argue from thence that ours is no true church This may make us a corrupt church but not a false one How many wicked members were in the only church of God in Christs time yet he separates not from it as a false church For as a tree or man or beast may have corrupt members yet not be false creatures in their kindes so may it bee in a Church And rashly to separate from such members will not prove the correction of them but their hinderance in good when they see themselves contemned without conviction and judgement Thus are they put further from the Kingdome of Heaven and made seven-fold the child of hell more to the hazard of all But this is false that ungodly men are not cut off from our true Church They are cut off two wayes by acts of the state and acts of the Church The State when they are judiciously tryed cuts off many of them by the Gallowes and in the Church they are cut off three wayes Ministerially when by declaring Christs pleasure what they should be and denouncing his wrath against them for what they are the vile are separated from the precious as those that have no actuall right to the salvation of Christ professionally when Gods good people pray against their wickednesse reprove it complaine against it and practise otherwise in wills affections and whole courses and are payed for it with their reproaches and persecutions and lastly Ecclesiastically when by processe and publike tryall they are cast out of our Synagogues and assemblies If all tast not the bitternesse of this censure when Church-officers remember not the Oath of God and so through feare favour and affection bring them not before the Churches tribunall yet many doe to be examples to all as in the Church of Corinth whereof many wicked persons one incestuous beast was cast out But say they you should separate from them all at least in the Sacrament of the Lords Supper The Apostle Paul saw all the disorders in the Church of Corinth yet taught not a separation in this Sacrament but gave this rule of remedy Let a man examine himselfe and to the Galatians he saith Every man shall beare his owne burthen Though in duties of charity we must beare one anothers burthens yet in rendring of accounts we must beare our owne Which were it well observed it would make them more carefull to reforme themselves then curiously to pry into and censure others Againe put case wicked persons come to our Communions of the Body and Bloud of Christ wee should not separate from them but they should separate from us It is but theirs by their profession but it is ours by our power of grace When things are naught wee must separate but when they are good wee must stay in our owne right It was sinne in Israel to separate from the sacrifices for the mixture of Elies wicked sonnes whom God would destroy But because this doth sticke so much with them and their partners that wicked men come to our Sacrament of the Lords Supper I shall therefore by Gods helpe cleare these three particulars 1 What right a wicked man hath by vertue of the gospel to this sacramēt 2 What benefit he can have from it 3 VVhat separation Gods word will warrant from such receivers For the first the sacrament hath a double office to offer grace to them that will receive it according to their profession and to exhibit this grace offered to
and thus saluted him I will not reckon thee among Christians unlesse I see thee in the church among them Let these men take home this judgement and see how they can digest it The third degree is preferring private before publicke worship If they can say they read pray at home though they reade but their owne indictment and pray for their owne punishment in the neglect of Gods rule in assembling they think all is well and conscience is wel enough satisfied But these are enemies to the honor of God to their owne good and to the good of others God is most honoured in the service of assemblies therefore David vowed to give thanks to God in a great congregation He knew that this advanced Gods honour most Our owne good surely shall be greater in assemblies the Lord loves the gates of Sion where publick worship was more then all the dwellings of Iudah and certainely where his love is there are best meanes for our good Besides wee come to seek that which is lost or ready to dye and when many seeke there is more hope of finding Therfore when God was turned away from favour the people were appointed to blow the trumpet in Sion to gather together that they might be more successeful Lastly the profit of others by our examples will be more conspicuous in assemblies our light will there best shine before men For this end was Solamons brazen scaffold in the midst of the court and Ioash stood by the pillar as the manner was It is true that others examples in doing worse must not weaken us in doing better Though Israel play the harlot yet let not Iudah sin we must not follow a multitude to do evill much lesse must ye follow some Examples are not the rule which we should follow If they be good they cleare a law they doe not make it Following of others cannot help us in the day of account I have done as others will be a poore plea. The three and twenty thousand were not helped by the thousand Princes who were their leaders to their destruction But yet if our examples be good in acts of assembling and worship according to Gods rule then will others profit bee helped as by the contrary it will bee much hindered The last degree whereby prophane persons withdraw from our assemblies is not coming with the first and not staying with the last David would not bee guilty he desired to bee a doorekeeper who was first in and last out Hee knew not how better to professe himselfe to be a seeker of God early and to stand in neede of all the acts of worship from the first humbling for a blesssing and craving of it to the last giving of it and thus should it bee with us Wee must come with the first Cornelius and his friends and servants waited for Peter They prevented him that nothing might fall from his ministery untaken up The cripple waited for the moving of the waters at the descending of the angel so must all Gods willing people at the places of assembling Wee must also stay with the last Even the Prince shall bee in the midst of the people in the temple he shal go in when they go in and when they go forth they shall go forth together The Jewes and Gentiles at Antiochia continued in publicke service till the congregation was dissolved And though Zachary stayed long in the middle temple yet the people would not depart without the blessing which the Priest must give If any doe otherwise without necessity they withdraw from our assemblings and are in a way of forsaking SECT 4. 2 The forsakers of our assemblies that would be accounted godly and first of their name THere are others who would bee accounted truely religious who forsake the assembling of our selves together and these have a name of pride and a name of justice The name of pride which they take to themselves is separatists They read sometimes in the scriptures of separation especially when Paul saith according to the prophet come out from among them and be ye separate And when they doe not wisely observe our state which is not to be separated from but see with full contentment their owne vaine separation they will needs glory in the name of Separatists as others doe of catholickes The name of Justice is Brownists which though they love not to heare of because Browne after his platforme of a new way of advancing Christs kingdome upon wiser thoughts returned from them yet how justly they must retaine that name may appeare in that which followes Wee reade of five introductions to this schisme before it was raised to the height it now hath height I say in mold and opinion not in members which have beene so few this sixteene hundred yeares and more that we may demonstratively say it is a brat of mans braine not a child of Christ that so long growes not at all First about two hundred fifty three yeares after Christ wee reade of one Novatus wo first lived under Cyprian next at Rome Hee being willing to get himselfe a name denied repentance to them that had denied Christ thorough heat of persecution though out of feare Yea he denied repentance to believers who after baptisme fell into any grosse sinne After by a strong ambition hee had indeavoured to bee a Bishop and was disappointed he led many poore soules into his sect who because they thought themselves better then other christians upon the former conceits called themselves Cathari or Puritanes These suffered their ebbe and flow for a time as pride and humility tooke turnes I am sure that your forsakers will not childe it from such a father Here was a separation from the unitie of the church but they will not have it theirs Secondly about three hundred thirty and one yeares after Christ or as some write something lower wee read of one Donatus who not being able to make his party good against Cecilianus his Bishop took stomach and drew a strong party after him for a time They had this pretense for their separation that the wicked did defile the good in the communion of the sacraments They accounted the church to bee no where but in Africk amongst themselves They judged their time to bee the harvest of the church they being a choise remnant like a little wheat in much chaffe If they were pressed to conformity by the authority of the Emperour they cried out what hath the Emperour to doe with the church Being asked how they could prove that they onely were the church They replied from the wonders of Donatus from their prayers heard at the sepulchers of the Donatists and from the visions and dreames of the members of their church They accounted sacraments holy onely when administred by holy persons They account no true baptisme but in their church and therefore they rebaptized