Selected quad for the lemma: christian_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
christian_n	baptize_v	child_n	infant_n	1,168	5	9.1746	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A49123	Mr. Hales's treatise of schism examined and censured by Thomas Long ... ; to which are added, Mr. Baxter's arguments for conformity, wherein the most material passages of the treatise of schism are answered.	Long, Thomas, 1621-1707.; Baxter, Richard, 1615-1691. Mr. Baxter's arguments for conformity against separation.	1678 (1678)	Wing L2974; ESTC R10056	119,450	354

Mr. Hildersham Mr. R. Rogers and such old Non-conformists are in so good esteem among good People where they will read them urging the People not only against Separation but to come to the very beginning of the publick Worship and preferring it before their private duties When I think what holy Learned Men the old Conformists were my heart riseth against the thoughts of separating from them If I had come to their Churches when they used the Common Prayer and administred the Sacrament could I have departed and said It is not lawful for any Christian here to communicate with you What! to such Men as Mr. Bolton Whateley Fenner Dent Crook Dike Stock Smith Dr. Preston Sibbs Stoughton Taylor and abundance other such yea such as Bishop Jewel Grindal Hall Potter Davenant Carleton c. Dr. Field Smith Jo. White Willet c. yea and the Martyrs too as Cranmer Ridley Hooper himself Farrar Bradford Fillpot Sanders c. Could I separate from all these on the Reasons now in question Yea Calvin himself and the Churches of his way were all separated from by the Separatists of their times And though ministerial Conformity is now much altered as to ingagements many of the Assembly of Divines that are yet living do conform again nor would I shun communion with the Reverend members of that Assembly Twiss Gataker Whitaker and the rest if again they used the Liturgy among us And if the old Conformists such as Bolton c. were alive and used now the same Liturgy and Ceremonies as they did then which was worse than now I could not think their communion in Prayer and Sacraments unlawful nor censure that man as injurious to the Church who should write to perswade others not to separate from them Read over some of the old Non-conformists Books against Separation as Mr. Jacobs the Independent against Johnson and Mr. Bradshaw and Mr. Gataker's defence against Cann Mr. Gifford Darrell Paget c. and fullest of all at the beginning of our troubles Mr. John Ball in three Books In these you will find the same objections answered or more and greater And I profess my judgment That our ordinary boasters that think they know more in this controversie than the old Non-conformists did as far as I am able to discern are as far below them almost as they are below either Chamier Sadeel Whitaker or such other in dealing with a Papist Objections Answered But what if there be gross and scandalous sinners are members of the Church Answ If you be wanting in your duty to reform it it is your sin but if bare presence made their sin to be ours it would also make all the sins of the Assembly ours But what if they are sins committed in the open Assembly even by the Minister himself in his praying preaching and other administrations Answ 1. A Ministers personal faults may damn himself and must be matter of lamentation to the Church who ought to do their best to reform them or get better by any lawful means But in case they cannot his sin is none of theirs nor doth it make his administration null or ineffectual nor will it allow you to separate from the Worship which he administreth You may not separate from him unless you can prove him or his ministry utterly intolerable by such faults as these 1. An utter insufficiency in knowledge or utterance for the necessary parts of the ministerial work As if he be not able to teach the necessary points of Christian Religion nor to administer the Sacraments and other parts of publick Worship 2. If he set himself to oppose the ends of his Ministry and preach down godliness or any part of it that is necessary to Salvation Or be a Preacher of heresie preaching up any damning error or preaching down any necessary saving truth 3. If he so deprave the publick Worship as to destroy the substance of it as in putting up blasphemy for prayer or praise or commit idolatry or set up new Sacraments or impose any actual sin on the People But there are other ministerial faults which warrant not our Separation as 1. Some tolerable errors of judgment or envy and pettish opposition to others Phil. 1. 15. 2. It is not unlawful to join with a Minister that hath many defects in his ministration or manner of Worship as if he preach with some ignorance disorder unfit expressions or gestures and the like in Prayer and Sacraments 3. It is not unlawful to join with a Minister that hath some material error or untruth in preaching or praying so be it we be not called to approve it and so it be not pernicious and destructive to the ends of his ministry If we run away from all that vent any untruth or mistake in publick or private worship we shall scarce know what Church or Person we may hold communion with For 1. A small sin may no more be done or owned than a greater 2. And then another man's weakness may disoblige me and discharge me from my duty Of Subscription with Assent and consent particularly concerning Infants baptized Q. 152. Is it lawful to subscribe or profess full assent and consent to any religious books beside the Bible seeing all are fallible 3. Answ It is lawful to profess or subscribe our assent and consent to any humane writing which we judge to be true and good according to the measure of its truth and goodness As if Church-confessions that are sound be offered us for our consent we may say or subscribe I hold all the Doctrine in this book to be true and good Q. 35. Is it certain by the Word of God that all Infants baptized and dying before actual sin are undoubtedly saved Answ I think that all the children of true Christians do by baptism receive a publick investiture by God's appointment into a state of remission adoption and right to salvation at present sent though I dare not say I am undoubtedly certain of it But I say as the Synod of Dort Art 1. That believing Parents have no cause to doubt of the salvation of their children that dye in infancy before they commit actual sin that is not to trouble themselves with fears about it For if such Infants were admitted to outward priviledges only then which is my 2d Reason we have no promise or certainty or ground of Faith for the pardon and salvation of any individual Infants in the World and if there be no promise there is no faith of it nor no baptism to seal it and so we make Antipaedobaptism unavoidable Whereas some mis-interpret the words of the old Rubrick of Confirmation in the English Liturgy as if it spake of all that are baptized whether they have right or not the words themselves may serve to rectifie that mistake And that no man shall think any detriment shall come to children by deferring of their confirmation he shall know for truth that it is

certain by Gods word that children being baptized have all things necessary for their Salvation and be undoubtedly saved where it is plain they mean they have all things necessary ex parte Ecclesiae or all Gods applying Ordinances necessary though they should die unconfirmed supposing they have all things necessary to just baptism on their own part which is but what the Ancients were wont to say of the baptized adult but they never meant that the infidel and impenitent were in a state of life because he was baptized but that all that truly consent to the Covenant and signifie this by being baptized are saved So the Church of England saith that they receive no detriment by delaying confirmation but it never said that they received no detriment by their Parents or Responses infidelity or Hypocrisie or by their want of true right coram Deo to be baptized Q. 39. What is the true meaning of Sponsors or Godfathers and is it lawful to make use of them Answ My Opinion is that they did both witness the probability of the Parents fidelity and also promised that if they should either Apostatize or dye they would see that the children were piously educated If you take them but as the ancient Churches did for such as do attest the Parents fidelity in their perswasion and do promise first to mind you of your duty and next to take care of their pious education if you die I know no reason you have to scruple this much yea more it is in your power to agree with the Godfathers that they shall represent your own persons and speak and promise what they do as your deputies only in your names and what have you against this Object When the Churchmen mean another thing this is but to juggle with the world Answ How can you prove that the authority that made or imposed the Liturgy meant any other thing 2. If the Imposers had meant ill in a thing that may be done well you may discharge your Conscience by doing it well and making a sufficient profession of your better sense Q. 42. How is the Holy Ghost given to Infants in Baptism whether all the children of true Christians have inward sanctifying grace c. Ans My judgment agreeth more in this with Davenant's than any others saving that he doth not appropriate the benefits of Baptism to the children of true Believers so much as I do And though by a Letter impleading Davenant's cause I was the occasion of printing good Mr. Gataker's Answer to him yet I am still most inclined to his judgment Not that all the baptized but that all the baptized seed of true Christians are pardoned justifyed adopted and have a title to the spirit and Salvation And we must choose great inconveniences if this opinion be forsaken viz. that all infants must be taken to be out of Covenant with God and to have no promise of Salvation whereas surely the law of Grace as well as the Covenant of works included all the seed in their capacity Of the Responses Q. 83. May the people bear a vocal part in Worship and do any more than say Amen Answ The people bear an equal part in singing the Psalms which are prayer and praise and instruction if they may do so in the Psalms in metre there can be no reason given but they may lawfully do so in Psalms in Prose for saying them and singing them are but modes of utterance and the Ancient singing was liker our Saying than our tunes The Primitive Christians were so full of zeal and love to Christ that they would have taken it for an injury and a quenching of the Spirit to have been wholly restrained from bearing their part in the praises of the Church The use of the tongue keepeth awake the mind and stirreth up God's graces in his servants It was the decay of zeal in the people that first shut out the Responses while they kept up the ancient zeal they were inclined to take their part vocally in the Worship And this was seconded by the pride and usurpation of the Priests thereupon who thought the people of God too prophane to speak in the Assemblies and meddle so much with holy things Yet the very remembrance of former zeal caused most Churches to retain many of the words of their predecessors even when they lost the life and spirit which should animate them and so the same words came into the Liturgies and were used by too many customarily and in formality which their Ancestors had used in the fervour of their Souls And if it were not that a dead-hearted formal people by speaking the Responses carelesly and hypocritically do bring them into disgrace with many that see the necessity of seriousness I think few good people would be against them now It is here the duty of every Christian to labour to restore the life and spirit to the words that they may again be used in a serious and holy manner as heretofore Exod. 19. 8. In as solemn an Assembly as any of ours when God gave Moses a form of words to preach to the people all the people answered together and said All that the Lord hath spoken we will do So Exod. 24. 3. and Deuter. 5. 27. which God approved of v. 28 29. See Levit. 9. 24. 2 Kings 23. 2 3. 1 Chron. 1. 35 36. It is a command Ps 67. 3 5. Let all the people praise thee O God c. And he that will limit this to single persons or say that it must not be vocally in the Church or it must be in metre only and never in prose must prove it lest he be proved one that addeth to Gods word Q. 84. Is it not a Sin for our Clerks to make themselves the mouth of the people Answ The Clerks are not appointed to be the mouth of the people but each Clerk is one of the people commanded to do that which all should do lest it should be wholly left undone If all the congregation will speak all that the Clerk doth it will answer the primary desire of the Church Governors who bid the people do it Of Bowing at the name Jesus And of Priests Altars c. Q. 86. Is it lawful to bow at the name of Jesus Answ That we may lawfully express our reverence when the names God Jehovah Jesus Christ c. are uttered I have met with few Christians who deny nor know I any reason to deny it If I live and joyn in a Church where it is commanded and peremptorily urged to bow at the name of Jesus and where my not doing it would be divisive scandalous or offensive I will bow at the name of God Jehovah Jesus Christ Lord c. My judgment of standing at the Gospel and kneeling at the Decalogue when it is commanded is the same Q. 122. May the name Priests Sacrifice and Altars be lawfully used Answ The New Testament useth all the Greek names

I have But shall I therefore wrong the truth and Church of God and my own and others Souls God forbid And page 52. he farther tells us I repent that I no more discouraged the spirit of peevish quarrelling with Superiors and Church-orders and though I ever disliked and opposed it yet that I sometimes did too much incourage such as were of their temper by speaking too sharply against those things which I thought to be Church corruptions and was too loth to displease the contentious for fear of being uncapable to do them good knowing the prophane to be much worse than they and meeting with too few religious persons that were not too much pleased with such invectives And as an Argument of his repentance he defends himself against Bagshaw who objected that he chose on Easter day to communicate in a very populous Church purposely that it might be known saying p. 76. If a man by many years forbearing all publick prayers and Sacrament should tempt others to think that he is against them or counts them needless how should he cure that scandal but by doing that openly pleading for it which he is supposed to be against Ministers being bound to teach the people by Example as well as Doctrine p. 78. And what he practised himself he carefully perswaded the people to avoid separation and hold communion in the parochial Churches For the Question which he maintained against Bagshaw was It is lawful to hold communion with such Christian Churches as have worthy or tolerable Pastors notwithstanding the Parochial order of them and the Ministers conformity and use of the Common Prayer-book and with two limitations concludes p. 89. That we ought to do so when some special reasons as from Authority scandal c. do require it And whereas by these actions and writings Mr. Baxter had so provoked the dissenting parties that it was objected as himself intimates in a second objection in the Preface of his Christian Directory That his writings differing from the common judgment had already caused offence to the Godly in the fourth Answer he sayes If God bless me with opportunity and help I will offend such men much more by endeavouring further than ever I have done the quenching of that fire which they are still blowing up and detecting the folly and mischief of those Logomachies by which they militate against Love and Concord and inflame and tear the Church of God and let them know that I am about it These are resolutions becoming a Minister of Christ an Ambassador of the Prince of Peace taken up after long and serious deliberation well rooted and fixed in his judgment and Conscience by reason whereof he was enabled through the Grace of God to withstand manifold temptations and violent oppositions to the contrary Nor can I think that such a man as Mr. Baxter can flee and desert so good a cause and after Vows to make enquiry and render himself guilty of all those calumnies and reproaches which his enemies have endeavoured to fix upon him Nor can I think that having brought our present controversies to so narrow a compass of ground he will contribute to the building of a Babel upon it This were to make good those hard speeches of Mr. Bagshaw against him who tells us p. 152. That one worthy of Credit told him that the Learned and Judicious Mr. Herle having read that cryed up book of his said It had been happy for the Church of God if Mr. Baxter's friends had never sent him to School and that Mr. Cawdry had the same opinion of it And that another person as knowing in the Mystery of Godliness as either of them told a friend of his that notwithstanding the noise about him Mr. Baxter would end in flesh and bloud And in a word this would set home his own fears upon his spirit that he might be a fire brand in hell for being a fire-brand in the Church I shall therefore charitably believe that though he seem to look another way yet he is labouring to bring the people that adhere to him to the harbour of Ecclesiastical peace and unity that he doth still preach up not holiness only but peace too without which he knows no man shall see God nor can I think that he doth now practise in contempt of Authority what himself had condemned in others or that he intends to harden the people in such a Separation as he had so long so passionately so rationally declaimed against I rather hope that he hath some dispensation from his Lawful Superiors and that by a pia fraus having greater advantages of doing good put into his hands he will by degrees improve them to the glory of God and the peace of this distracted Church If he drive any other design I would desire him to consider first how he can Answer his own Arguments unto men and secondly how to give an account to God for his contrary practices But I have a very great confidence that he who hath with great industry and faithfulness provided so many solid materials from the Scriptures and right reason for the supporting and beautifying a Temple of peace having carved and guilded them over with serious Protestations of his own pacifick intentions and variety of Rhetorick to perswade others will not be a Leader of that rabble which shall first break down the carved works with axes and hammers and at last though sore against his will raze the very foundations and cry Down with it down with it even to the ground Of the Church Mr. Baxter in his Reasons for the Christian Religion p. 464. S. 2. THE Church of Christ being his Body is but one and hath many parts but should have no Parties but unity and concord without Division S. 3. Therefore no Christian must be of a Party or Sect as such that is as dividing it self from the rest causing Schism or Contention in the Body or making a rent unnecessarily in any particular Church which is a part S. 8. Nothing will warrant us to separate from a Church as no Church but the want of something essential to a Church S. 11. It is essential to particular Political Churches that they be constituted of true Bishops or Pastors and of Flocks of baptized or professed Christians united for holy Communion in the worshipping of God and the promoting of the Salvation of the several Members S. 12. It is essential to a true Bishop or Pastor of the Church to be in office that is in authority and obligation appointed by Christ in Subordination to him in the three parts of his offices Prophetical Priestly and Kingly That is to teach the People to stand between them and God in Worship and to guide or govern them by the Paternal exercise of the Keys of his Church S. 15. If a Church which in all other respects is purest and best will impose any sin upon all that will have any local Communion with it though we must not separate from