Selected quad for the lemma: christian_n

Word A Word B Word C Word D Occurrence Frequency Band MI MI Band Prominent
christian_n baptism_n baptize_v infant_n 1,991 5 9.3594 5 true
View all documents for the selected quad

Text snippets containing the quad

ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A94219 A balm to heal religions wounds applied in a serious advice to sober-minded Christians that love the truth, and are well-wishers to reformation : in answer to The pulpit guard routed, lately set forth by one Thomas Collier ... / by Richard Saunders ... Saunders, Richard, d. 1692. 1652 (1652) Wing S755A; ESTC R42466 75,152 187

There are 4 snippets containing the selected quad. | View lemmatised text

as these The P. G. Routed Baptisme is come in the roome of Circumcision Infants were circumcised therefore Infants must be baptised The Apostles baptised housholds there might be Children therefore Children may be baptised Children were brought to Christ therefore they may be baptised Goodly consequences Are these the consequences that are drawne out of Scripture to prove Infant-baptisme Answer Ha's not the Pulpit Guard Routed got a forehead of braffe that is able to tell the World such a falshood in Print 'T is true the first consequence hath been made use of by some in the proof of Infant-baptisme and it is so plaine and unquestionable a consequence that if he had the least graine of sound reason in him he could not have denied it Mark it he finds no fault with the Proposition Baptisme comes in the roome of Circumcision but denies the consequence that is drawne out of it Now come hither Babes and Sucklings and make good this against him let all the world judge whether if baptisme come in the room of Circumcision this be not a good consequence Infants were circumcised therefore Infants must be baptized You will easily see his folly in this exception if you note he denies the consequence not the Proposition on which 't is grounded As for the other two consequences did ever any of those that have written for Infant-baptisme argue after that manner But I think this man never shewed so much affection to truth or desire of information as to read the Arguments of those that have writ soundly for it if he had he would have found other consequences then such as he mentions Read the Arguments of Baxter Marshall Homes Featly and others or the Arguments of any one of them especially Mr Baxter and see Beloved Christians whether he goes not about to cheat you with his forgeries But to the particular consequences 1. They argue if he will have it so baptisme comes in the roome of circumcision Infants were circumcised therefore Infants must be baptised What hath he to say to this sayes he The Law and circumcision came by Moses The P. G. Routed but grace and truth and Gospel Ordinances came by Jesus Christ Answ 1. Answer See the ignorance of the great Text-man Did circumcision come by Moses Was it not instituted by God in a command given to Abraham long before Moses was borne But 't is like he remembred that he read the story of its institution in one of the five books of Moses and therefore thought Moses to be the Institutour of the same A pittifull mistake 2 The Ordinances that were appointed by Moses were they not Christs Ordinances as well as those appointed under the Gospel But Thirdly What is all this to the purpose doth this at all weaken the consequence If Moses as Christs servant did appoint Circumcision and Christ hath taken downe that and set up another Ordinance of the same end use and spirituall signification in the steed of it doth this hinder the consequence aforesaid yea doth it not above measure establish it O most strong conquering answers But as to the Second consequence did ever any body except such a Disputer as the P. G. Routed is argue as he suggesteth in the next place viz. Apostles baptized Housholds there might be children therefore children may be baptized Did ever any of our Patrons of Paedo-Baptisme reason so 'T is true some argue thus The Apostles baptized whole housholds therefore 't is probable there might be some children baptized then seeing there are few families in which are not some children None argue from hence but for the probability of the fact that t is probable some were baptized and is not such an inference tolerable Whereas he sayes We must beleeve there were no children in those families or if any there yet not Baptized because contrary to the knowne practise of the Apostles This is the simplest begging of the question that ever I met withall For that is the thing in controversie to say there were no children baptized in those families because t was contrary to the practise of the Apostles to baptise Children is idem per idem a proving a thing by it selfe Good Logick for But if this will not passe with the ordinary allowance of boldnesse and confidence you shall be accounted Antichristian and willfully blind for it be sure 3. Did ever any body argue children were brought to Christ therefore they may be baptised I beleeve he hopes some will adventure to credit him how falsely soever he speak or write Surely this man would make you beleeve there are but very slender Arguments to prove Infant-baptisme But I 'le tell you some of the consequents that we draw from Scripture they are such as these Those that are Church-members an to be baptised Arg. 1. Some Infants are Church-members therefore some infants are to be baptised Againe Those that belong to the Kingdom of God are to be baptised Arg. 2. But some Infants belong to the Kingdome of God Therefore some Infants are to be baptised Againe Such as are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 holy by separation to God Arg. 3. are to be baptised But some Infants are so Therefore c. Here are some of our consequences t● prove Infant-baptisme that will make the ablest Anabaptists heart in England ak● to with stand You have these and many such like Arguments enlarged upon and cleared from all cavils by severall abl● men that have writ on this subject but especially by Mr. Baxter in his book o● Infants Church-member ship who to my judgement ha's done best of any on this controversie I confesse there ha's been so much spoken and that so clearly and convincingly by others that for me to say any thing more will be but to light a candle to the Sun However I shall reason a little with you about the first argument driving home that nail to the head that he that can not read or get larger Treatises may have a sufficient hint in this short Tract to enable him to stop the mouthes of such as shall withstand the truth here in dispute And herein I shall tread in the steps of acute and judicious Mr Baxter for the most part 1. That all Church-members are to be baptised that I presume none will deny and therefore I shall take it for granted 2. That some Infants are to be admitted Church-members I prove by Mr Baxters Argument thus If by the mercifull gift and appointment of God not yet repealed some Infants were once to be admitted members of the visible Church then some Infants are to be so admitted still But by the mercifull gift and appointment of God not yet repealed some Infants were once to be admitted members of the visible Church Therefore They are so to be admitted still Examine this well 1. That some infants by Gods gift and appointment were once admitted Church-members I hope will be granted they were members of the Church of the Jewes
see me appearing in such Controversies as some of these are who have lately appeared as publiquely in a Discourse Viz. In a short Discourse proving the lawfulnesse of submitting to the present Power wherein I discovered my selfe contrary minded to a great number of those I now plead for And seeing I differ in some matters of Church-Discipline and order from many of my Brethren I must tell thee First I love to speake truth when necessity calls for it what ever they be I speake against Secondly I cannot endure to be reputed a favourer of such corruptions as my soule ever abhorred which I should be if I should hold my peace in the things hereafter discoursed of I have freely encouraged Christians to the use of their Liberty in edifying one another in the use of their gifts and how many have suspected that I countenanced the confused Liberty that is pleaded for by theh Pulpit Guard Routed I have scrupled the baptising all infants not judging but that all Church-Members infants are to be baptised but seeing t is evident that all among us are not such as may be embraced as Church-Members in this time of Reformation endeavoured all infants are not to be baptised and upon this account I have for a season suspended the dispensing of that Ordinance to any untill I can forme those Christians that have hearts to submit unto the Discipline of Christ into a body according to Apostolicall rule And how many upon this account have thought me a friend to Anabaptists notwithstanding my profession to the contrary When as I professe t is not but that I have ever owned Baptisme of infants to be an Ordinance of Christ And my suspending the use of it is First Because I judge it meet that those that enjoy Church-priviledges either for themselves or Children should be accountable to the Church for their walking which cannot well be unlesse there be a new-forming of Church-Societies for present altogether without forme order or power Secondly Because I am afraid if I should doe otherwise what I build with one hand I should pull downe with the other in the businesse of Church-Reformation Now though I have sufficiently though not so publiquely as now clear'd my selfe of these suspitions yet they made me somewhat the more willing to this undertaking Thirdly I appeared also in this Discourse the rather because it may be knowne that all that are for the present Power are not as some suspect favourers of these corruptions I thinke I have appeared before in and after the change of affairs in this Land as far as most of my Station and I cannot be are the dishonour is done to the Noble Patriots of our Country by the secret whisperings of these vagrant Seducers that speak as if they were sent by Authority and Patronizd by it Yea some of them as I heard had the boldnesse to give out when debate was touching a new Representative that the Anabaptists should be the men that should choose it T were good the insolency of such fellows were curb'd Such things trouble many honest hearts not that they can beleeve such toyes but because there is no check given to such persons Among others this Collier I write against deserves to be marked who can not be contented to set himselfe against Ordinances of Christ but also like a man of a seditious spirit must jear at Ordinances of Parliament too Christian Reader I cannot be so prudent as to let Truth suffer by holding my peace when my speaking may displease men T is true there may be a time when some Truths may not be fit to be published But I promise thee if God make knowne to me any thing further whereby I may doe the Church of Christ any service I shall not imprison the Truth in me And though in this learned and knowing age wherein so many things are written by those with whom I am not worthy to be named there is little reason to expect me much in print yet shall I to my power in my place labour the promoting of the interest of truth To which end I desire thee to improve what interest thou hast at the throne of Grace for me and I shall remain To truth and peace Christian liberty and order an hearty well-wisher R. S. A BALME To Heale Religions Wounds In answer to the Pulpit-Guard Routed The Proeme shewing the grounds of writing this Treatise IT may be much wondred why I should set pen to paper to write an Answer to that railing Pamphlet which is come out into the World under the name of the Pulpit Guard Routed especially seeing there is another abler for the work more properly and directly concerned in it I must tell you it is no pleasure to me to be contending about questions and controversies which engender strife I could wish if the wisedome of God thought it fit that there were no occasion of such a thing given nor any necessity lying upon those that desire rather to be imployed about more sweet and savoury studies to turn themselves to such unpleasant work But seeing that according to the Preacher Eccl. 3.3 There is a time to breake downe as well as a time to build up I find God calling us now forth as we are able to both Not only to building up and repairing Gods spirituall fabrick in his Saints which is our delightfull work but to pull down those dangerous structures of hay and stubble which men of corrupt minds endeavour to raise up But secondly The reasons why I who am lesse concerned in this business● did yet interpose in it are these 1. I am somewhat doubtfull whether Mr Hall whose Book 't is that this unworthy Pamphlet pretends to answer may have any purpose to make reply in regard 1. It is so scurrilous and the Answers so absurd and impertinent 2. The danger that may come of this Book by corrupting the minds of weake and unsteady people may not be so visible t● him as to me who live in and near those parts where the Author of it ha's mo●● influence and therefore I may see mor● reason why his Book should not go without an Answer 2. The Author of this Pulpit Guard Routed hath endeavoured to scatter abroad his Books in this Countrey unto the great danger of ensnaring many poor souls whom the relation of neighbour-hood makes me more tender of then ordinary 3. Seeing his designe is chiefly promoted in these parts it may be a word from me in these parts where I am known may be more prevalent then an answer from a Stranger though the busines be better managed by him yea and what I shall write may take much the better abroad too among them whose establishment and information I chiefly aim at while they see my judgement wherein I goe so far to meet all well-wishers to reformation as the Truth will give me leave as thou mayest see in part in mine Epistle to the Reader where thou haft also a further account of
type unto the Jews in times of the Law and what is that to the businesse Baptisme is a Type to Christians under the Gospel They that have argued so long against Infant-Baptisme from this reason that they are uncapable of understanding its mystery could never yet give a reason why the knowledge of the mystery of Baptisme is necessary to make a subject capable of it when the knowledge of the mystery of Circumcision was not necessary to make the subject capable of it Tell me what thing made Infants then capable of circumcision and then I 'le tell thee and thou mayest satisfie thy selfe that the same thing makes Infants capable of Baptisme now Their being such as God had vouchsafed to take together with their Parents into Covenant with himselfe was that which made them capable of Circumcision as appears in Gen. 17.7 8 9 10. where they are commanded Therefore to be Circumcised because God had made a Covenant with them Now the same thing makes Children of Beleevers now capable of Baptisme But his third Answer is of all the fittest for such a man to give it is this 3. The P. G. Routed There was a Command for that of Circumcision c. O egregiously gifted Disputant Answer The Objection was if Infant-Baptisme be childish because the subjects are Children then Circumcision was also Childish which was commanded of God to this he answers Circumcision was commanded of God Can you beleeve that the spirituall gifts that these men pretend to are reall when as in the utmost improvement of their gifts they write such non-sence If they write thus how do you think will they speake when they come to handle difficult matters if they preach too without meditation or study as they boast But whereas he sayes The command is that which gives a capacity c. I shewed even now what it was that gave the Infants then a capacity of Circumcision from Gen. 17. The Command as Mr Marshall sayes well is the cause of the existence of the duty but the Covenant of grace is the motive to it They were therefore circumcised as before because taken into Covenant and so Church-members But enough of this let me away to his second Reason why Infant baptisme is childish which is as follows 2. The P. G. Routed It is Childish as relating to the Administrators c. in not understanding the command of Christ c. But how doth he make that good Answer why you must take his word for it He will call thousands of able judicious men ignorant that by his confidence you may think he is knowing and intelligent His next corrupt Assertion borders upon the same controversie touching Infant-baptisme 'T is this His third Error That none must be baptised till they come to perfect Age. YOu have this defended by him page 6. thus And is this such a strange thing with you who professe your selfe a Minister of the Gospel The P. G. Routed c. Was not Christ himselfe Baptised at thirty years of age the Eunuch by Philip Acts 8 And those of John c. Yea Answer and it may be strange for all that for what shadow of reason is there in it why none must be baptised till they come to perfect Age Is this good arguing Christ and the Eunuch c. were of perfect age when baptised therefore none but men of perfect age must be baptised Is not this as good an argument When Christ gave the Supper none were admitted but Apostles therefore none but Apostles may receive the Supper If he say there be other Scriptures that give not Apostles onely but all believers admittance unto the Supper I answer so there are other Scriptures that do authorize us to admit Children to baptisme Therefore he might have saved the labour of answering the Objection viz. That that was in the first Plantation of the Church c. For first we need not fly thither because what he urges concludes not at all the thing asserted by him He sayes None must be baptised but such as are of perfect age c. To prove it he urges that some that were of perfect age were then baptised which you know no way concludes that none but such must When any Anabaptist in England can prove that no Infants were baptised in the Apostles times then it may be we shall make use of that which he brings in as an Objection which if we doe we must intreat him to take a little better knowledge of the Objection and not mistake it so ignorantly as he seems to do in his Answer For the thing urged in the Objection is not That there was one rule for them in the infancy and another for us now If he did understand sense he would have seen it but that the same Scripture rule that was then delivered to the Churches directs us to a different course in gathering Churches and in Churches gathered which is very clear So that none need wonder why they heare of baptising growne persons then and Infants for the most part now The reason is because though when our work is as theirs was to gather Churches we baptise growne persons upon their Profession of the Christian Faith as they did and that most frequently yet when the Church is constituted we doe take in according to Christs appointment the Children of Beleevers in their infancy the which I shall speak more to by and by Pretious Souls you that love the appearing of the Lord Jesus I from mine heart owne the lowest appearances of Christ in his people I would not quench the smoaking flax for a world nor dare I despise the day of small things in any but when Ignorance doth so exalt it selfe yea even presuming to call the Spirit of Christ its Father as in these men give me leave to be zealous for your sakes that you may with the Church of Ephesus Revel 2.2 Try them which say they are Apostles or men sent and are not and finde them lyars But that I may follow my valiant Antagonist marching in the head of his victorious absurdities and impertinencies yet a little further in what he says more to this controversie page 8. I shall step over one or two particulars reserving the handling of them til afterwards and apply my selfe to the finishing of what I intend about Paedo-baptisme He undertakes in the eigth page to vindicate the Anabaptists in respect of another errour charged upon them viz. that they deny all consequences of Scripture c. to which he sayes You are mistaken man in this too The P. G. Routed they deny unnecessary and untrue consequences I beleeve indeed this is the opinion only of the weakest and simplest of them Answer and though the Pulpit Guard Routed be ignorant enough yet it seems he is not so ignorant as to deny necessary consequences drawne from Scripture I should have said nothing to this but for what followes Sayes he Your consequences are such
the rest of the Ministers of the Gospel who as he intimates in this verse and affirme● Verse 12. did use this liberty of not working did they I say live out of a calling were they Idlers But by the way let me from this plain Scripture frame this one Argument to prove the Ministry of the Gospel a distinct lawfull calling If a man may lawfully lay by all other callings and apply himselfe wholly to it and live by it then is it a distinct lawfull calling That is clear from his owne words which are most true that No man may live out of a calling But a man may lawfully lay by all other Callings and apply himselfe to the Ministry of the Gospel live by it that i● evident from the Text where Paul sayes He and Barnabas might leave working vers● 6. That the Ministers of the Gospel then generally did vers 12. That they might that t was fit they should yea that God had ordained they should live by it ver 7 8 9 10 11.13 14. Therefore the Ministry of the Gospel is a distinct lawfull calling Can any thing be more plain and evident then this But Fourthly Is there no laboriousnesse and pains-taking for that I le suppose he may intend by sweat in the imployment of Ministers and Schollers It seems he never knew what it is to study hard It appears indeed by his Book He is not acquainted with the labour of the minde in getting downe to the bottom of things and that 's the reason he handles things so superficially But he addes Breeding to School is proper to children when they can not labour to fit them for some calling The P. G. Routed Very good then it seems Answ hee 'l graunt that breeding children at School is warrantable But it must not be if you will beleeve him any longer then while they cannot worke And how long is that pray I would fain know whether children are not able to begin to work as soon or almost as soon as they are able to goe to School But it seems he would have them learne their A. B. C. and no more for when they can labor then they must away to that Doe not you see how this mans ignorance opens it selfe in every line But he grants they may goe to School to fit them for some calling Well then then must they keep to the Schools till they are made as fit for the calling they intend as the Schools can make them at least till fit in some degree and if so then 1 His former assertion is false that sayes They must keep the School onely while they cannot worke 2 Then he that intends the calling of a Minister which I proved before to be a distinct calling must so long abide at the Schools as is requisite to make him an able Minister so far as Schoole-learning may helpe him and if so then his maine position here disputed is false too that would make the life of a Scholer an idle unjustifiable life See how weakly this man contradicts himselfe and all in one page Object If he have so much ignorance for learning had never any enemy but ignorance as to say humane learning is no way usefull to a Minister of the Gospel I shall use no other argument here Answ to refute him but his own practice why does he sometimes make use of the originall languages to clear some Scriptures in his writings I beleeve he is little acquainted with those languages but this that he is driven to enquire into them that he may give out the true and full sence of Scripture it speaks out the usefulnesse of the same to a Minister More of this in its place I shall step forth unto his second Errour His Second Errour That Infant Baptisme is a Childish thing THis he will owne for truth and how will he make it good he sayes 'T is childish 1. As relating to the Subject The P. G. Routed the child who is to be baptized not understanding the use and end of it 2 As relating to the Administrators c. As to the first there lies a shreud objection in his way Answer which he has so much ingenuity as faithfuly to set downe but not so much wit as to answer with any sence as you shall see by and by The Objection he layes downe thus The Infants of the children of Israel were as uncapable The P. G. Routed in he would have written of the understanding of the mystery of Circumcision as Infants are now of Baptisme yet they were by the command of God to be Circumcised 'T is a good objection indeed started Answer but how is it cleared He gives a threefold answer thus 1 Its truth that one part of Circumcisions Mystery The P. G. Routed viz. the Circumcision of the heart was as far from the capacity of Infants as the mystery of Baptisme is now Very good Answer and what part of Circumcisions mystery pray were Infants of eight dayes capable of understanding if they understood not that risum teneamus c. who can but smile at such an answer as if Infants at eight dayes old did understand any part of the mystery of the Ordinance of Circumcision I wonder he had not inform'd his Reader what mystery such were then capable of understanding but what have you next 2. The P. G. Routed As Circumcision was a type and signe in the flesh of Christ who was to come of Abrahams seed there was no such capacity required His Reason follows Because it was a Jewish legall type as all the rest of their externall worship and Sacrifices were c. O fine words to please Children Answer little to the purpose 1. Was there not required a spirituall understanding of the legal Ordinances and Sacrifices then as well as now o● Gospel Ordinances Doth this man thin● to perswade any Protestant or Orthodox Christian that the Israelites were not bound to see into the mystery of their Ordinances as we are into ours without any reason 'T is true they saw not sofar into the mystery as we may but that they did not at all understand nor were bound to it will establish the dangerous doctrine of the Pelagians that say they were justified by their legall Ordinances without faith in Christ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Acts 15.11 and give the Apostle the lye who says that we are saved 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 even as they 2. The knowledge of the mystery of Circumcision was not necessary to all that were circumcised to make them capable of Circumcision he grants well and why is the knowledge of the mystery of Baptisme necessary to all that are to be Baptised to make them capable of Baptisme If he had given a good reason for this he had spoken something to the purpose He sayes Circumcision was a type so is Baptisme also whereas he sayes 't was Jewish and Legall the sence is 't was a