anie man that vvill compare the arguments answeres to the present subiect of the discourse As for the other side if nothing should be published vntill theire consent were had there should neuer anie of these things com to light But if they thinke themselues iniuryed let them set downe the particulers vvherin or for the further satisfying of all men let them yet at length condiscend to som christian free conference where both sides may haue lyberty to produce theire reasons a true record of them be kept by faithfull indifferent notaries ech side be allowed to haue a copie therof time to consider of vvhat is passed accordingly Thus might the thruth sone peeceablye be knovven vvhere the vvord of God may be judg betvvixt them from vvhich vvho so departeth vvil not be reduced let him to his vvne perill vndergoe such censures iudgments as are due to his error syn Only this is sure VVisdome is iustified of all her children Farevvell in the Lord. To owre Louing freinds M r. Archdeacon Mollins Mr. Doctor Andros Mr. Cotton Mr. Hutchinson and the rest of the preachers in about London vvith in named AFter owre harty Commendations I the Bisshop of Londō haue receiued order from my Lords grace of Canterburye vvith the aduice of both the cheiffe Iustices that conference should presently be had vvith these Sectories vvhiche do forsake ovvr Church and be for the same cōmytted prysoners for that it is intēded if by ovvr good learned persvvasions they vvill not be reduced to conforme themselues to their dutifull obedyence that they shalbe proceeded vvith all according to the course of the common lavve Therfore these are to vvill requyre you euery of you vvhose names are mencioned in the shedule hereunto anexed in her Ma ts name by vertue of her high Commission for causes ecclesiasticall to vs and others dyrected That tvvise euery vveeke at the least you doe re-repayre to those persons prysoners vvhose names are in this tycket set doune and that you seeke by all learned discrete demeanure you may to reduce them from their errors And for that eyther their conformitye or disobedyence may be more manifest vvhen they shall com vnto theire trial Therfore vve requyre you to set dovvne in vvryting the perticuler dayes of your going to cōfer vvith them lykevvise your censure vvhat it is of them as that if occasion doe serue to vse it you vvilbe svvorne vnto And for that Mr Doctor Stanhope Chancellor to me the Bisshop of London is gon out of the Citie therfore vve requyre Mr. Mollins to send for all those seuerall preachers and delyuer them the names of the prysoners togeather with the prysons vvhervnto they are assigned to resort and to requyre them as aforesaide to take the chardg vppon them according to the trust commytted vnto them and in case anie of them refuse that then you require him or them forthvvith to repayre to me to Fulham and to certefie me of their aunsvvers before theire comming And so vve byd you Farevvell the 25. of Februarye 1589. Your Louing freinds Iohn Lond. Iohn Herbert Edvv. Stanhope Rich. Cosen WE haue sent you herevvithall a note of som part of their errors vvherby those preachers that are associat vnto you may the better consider hovv to deale in conference with them A briefe of the positions holden by the nevve sectorie of recusants 1 THat it is not lawfull to vse the Lords prayer publiquely in the Church for a set forme of prayer 2 Secondly that all set stinted prayers are meere babling in the sight of the Lord not to be vsed in publique Christian assemblies 3. Thirdly that the publique prayers worship of God in England as it is by lavve in the Church of England established is false superstitious popish and not to be vsed in anye Christian congregation 4. That the Church of England as it is now established is no entier member of the Church of Christ. 5. That the gouernment of the Church of England as it is now established is no lawfull gouernment nor christian but antichristian popish 6. That the Sacraments of Babtisme the Lords supper as they are administred in the Church of England be not true Sacraments 7. That infants ought not to be baptised according to the forme of baptisme ministred now in the Church of Englad but are rather to be kept vnbaptised 8. Manie of them make scruple to affirme that the Queens Maiestie hath supreame aucthoritie to gouern the Church of England in cases ecclesiasticall and to make lawes ecclesiasticall not contrary to Christs lawes 9. That the lawes ecclesiasticall already established by the auctoritie of the Queene Realme be not lawfull 10. That if the prince or maiestrate vnder her doe refuse or defer to reforme such faults as are aimsse in the Church the people may take the reforminge of them into theire owne hands before or vvithout her auctoritie 11. That the presbiterie or eldership may for som causes after admonition if there ensue not reformation excommunicat the Queene 12. That the Church of England as it novv standeth by lavve established professeth not a true Christ nor true religion that it hath no ministers in deed nor Sacraments in deed Iames Forester prysoners in newgate in the Fleete Do Bancraft Iohn Francys prysoners in newgate in the Fleete Robert Batkine prysoners in newgate in the Fleete Do Grant Thomas Freeman in the gatehowse Do Wood Thomas Settel in the gatehowse Iohn Debenham in the gatehowse Mr. Egerton George Collier in the Clynke Iohn Sparowe in the Clynke Do Sallard Edmond Nicolson in the Clynke M r. Iackson Xpofer Raper in the Clynke M r. Dunscombe Xpofer Browne in the Clynke Quintan Smyth in the Clynke M r. Smyth Androwe Smyth in the Clynke William Blakborowe in the Clynke Mr. Phyllips Thomas Lemar in the Clynke Thomas Michell in the Clynke Do White Anthonye Clakston in newgate William Forester in newgate Mr. Sparke William Denford in newgate Roger Waterer in newgate Mr. Erlye Edeth Burrowghe in newgate William Burt in newgate Mr. Turnball George Smels in the Counter woodstreet Xpofer Bowman in the Counter woodstreet Mr. Edmonds Robert Iackson in Count woodstr Mr. Haughton Nycolas Lee in the Count woodstr Mr. Gylpenne Robert Andrewes in Count woodstr Mr. Coper William Hutton in Count woodstr Mr. Archpoole Iohn Buser in Count woodstr Do Hanmer Iohn Fissher in Count woodstr Do Crooke William Clarke in Count vvoodstr Mr. Trypp Richard maltusse in Count vvoodstr Mr. Morrison William Fouller in Count vvoodstr Mr. Crowe Richard Skarlet in Count vvoodstr Mr. Brovvne Roger Rippine in Count vvoodstr Mr. Hall Iohn Clarke in Count vvoodstr Mr. Moslee Rowland Skipworth in the Counter poultrye preacher at Bridevvell George Knifton in the Counter poultrye Mr. Anderson Richard Hayward in Count poult Mr. Gardiner Iohn Lankaster in Count poult Mr. Cotton Thomas Endford in Count poult Mr. Cheyne Mr. Mollins Henry Barrowe in the
Christian Conngregation IF Christ Iesus the author fiinisher of owre faith haue constituted confirmed the ministration of the new Testament perfect for all ages persons how to serue him according to his vvyll then your liturgye drawen out of the Popes portuis is not only Idolatrous superstitious a deuised vvorship the inuentions precepts of men in stead of the liuelye graces present guifts of his spirit wherby men call vppō his name but a bondle of infinite grosse blasphemous errors yea euen a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or counterfeit gospell not only set aboue the gospell of Christ but dyrectly instituting an other ministry ministracōn then Christ hath commended commaunded to his Church till his apearing in the clouds to iudgmēt vnto vvhich Idoll and huge Chaos of long gathered patched errors all your ministery is sworne vvherby they renounce Christs Testamēt must administer by this liturgye babling ouer the seuerall parcells therof as thei are lymited prescribed stinted from yeare to yeare day to day By which liturgye or new gospell the priests of that order are approued sufficient without preaching or the guyft of teaching and the repeating of that 〈◊〉 booke accompted sufficient for all mens saluation And if anie do preache his doctrines must be conformed to the orders hereof The errours in this Idolatrous booke conteyned vvould not be easely repeated in half a day yet this vve are able to proue that it instituteth apointeth another ministery ministration in all points then Christs Testament hath confirmed not only peruerting making of no effect the ordinances of God concerning the vvorship of his people but establishing another in the place therof as in theire prayers Sacraments fasts feasts offrings purifications maryages buryalls c. manifestly apeareth 4. That the Church of England as it is novve established is no entire member of the Church of Christ. THe Common vvealth of England or parish assemblies as they gennerally stand vnder subiect vnto the aforesaide vvorship ministery consisting of all sorts of vncleane spirits Atheists papists hereticks c. are not the true apparant established Churches of Christ or communion of saincts and so by outward profession they neither being gathered from the vvorld to the obedyence of Christ neither hauing power or freedom to practice Christs Testament as the truth is reuealed are no entire member of the body of Christe 5. That the gouernment of the Church of England as it is novv established is no lavvfull gouernment nor Christian but antichristian and popish HAuing in the former articles sufficiently proued theire worship ministerye to be Idolatrous forbidden in the second Cōmaundment as all apochripha inuentions of men It is euident to all men confessed of owre enemies that the ministers lawes other ordinācs wherby the parish assemblies are gouerned are not such as Christ apointed to his Church of Pastor Teacher Elders Deacons c. But by such officers Courts Cannons as are hatched from Rome as Archb. L. BBs c. whose titles office or administracōns were neuer heard of in the scriptures 6. That the Sacraments of Babtisme the Lords Supper as they are administred in the Church of England be not true Sacraments THere neither being lawfull ministery to administer nor faithfull holye free people orderly gathered vnto the true true outward professiō of Christ as we haue before shewed and consequently no Couenant of grace the Sacraments in these assēblies of Babtisme and the Lords supper gyuē vnto Atheists papists vvhoremasters drunkerds theire seede delyuered also after a superstitious maner according to theire liturgye and not according to the institution rules of Christs Testament are no true Sacraments nor seales vvith promise 7. That infants ought not to be baptised according to the forme of Babtisme ministred novv in the Church of England but are rather to be kept vnbaptized NO godly Christians seperat from the false Church ought to bring theire infants to theis parish assemblies to be baptised into that felowship or profession by that ministery or according to that order but in the true Church to seeke the Seale of the Couenant so sone as it may be had by the true ministerye in the Congregation according to Christs institution we still affirme 8. Manie of them make scruple to affirme that the Queens Maiestie hath supreame aucthoritie to gouerne the Church of England in cases ecclesiasticall and to make lavves ecclesiasticall nos contrarye to Christ lavves ALL true Christians vvithin her Maiesties dominions acknowledg her Maiestie to be the supreame maiestrate gouernesse of all persons with in the Church vvithout the Church yea ouer all causes ecclesiasticall ciuill yet allwayes vvith this Caueat that no flesh may presume to add anie thing to his vvord or diminish anie thing from it This vve make no scruple to affirme 9. That the lavves ecclesiasticall alreadye established by the aucthoritie of the Queene Realme be not lavvfull SEing the ecclesiasticall lavves Canons Iniunctions Articles Courts ministery c. vvherby these parish assemblies be gouerned and guyded are not deryued from the booke of God or can be vvarranted therby or grounded theruppon but are the inuentions of men vvhich tourne avvay the truth abrogating Christs lavves ordinances yea seing they are culled out if not whollie receaued from that great Antichrist his Canons orders diuelish polecies as most malignant oppositions against the vvill of God confirmed perfected vvith Christs bloud miracles from heauen therfore these Canons Iniunctions articles hovv plawsible soeuer they agree to the vvorld yet are they the execrable wares of Antichrist Statuts of Omry and not to be receaued or obeyed of anie that loue the Lord Iesus Christ. 10. That if the Prince or Maiestrate vnder her doe refuse or defer to reform such faults as are amisse in the Church the people may take the reforming of them in theire ovvne hands before or vvith out her aucthoritie NEyther do we looke for anie reformation of Babell that is this world of confusion your false Church neither do we take vppon vs to intermeddle with the Magistrats sword but keepe owre selues in thought word deed within the lymitts of owre calling in all dutifull obedyence to owre prince superiours for conscience towards God and teach men both by vvord example so to vvalke But that all that vvylbe saued must forsake the false Church by repentance come vnder Christs obedience to serue vvorship God aright in his true Church vve hold it so true a doctrine as that there is no other meanes or promise of saluation Nether may vve eyther neglect the true seruice of god nor practise of anie part therof or haue fellowship vvith the works of darknes though the prince should inhibit the one commaund the other no herein vve shew no disobediēce to magistrats vvhose displeasure vve must rather vndergoe then fall into the hands of the euerlyuing
HVTCH. Most of them are now departed by death which then were 〈◊〉 receaued GREEN Therfore I included their seede to stand in the same estate no seperated from the world so could not be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a people called out HVTCH. I know not what you meane by seperation GREEN You know what 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 BADAL signifieth as light is seperated from darknes so must the Church from the profane HVTCH. What meane you by profane GREEN Atheists men without the knowledg or feare of God togeather with the papists hereticks all other infidells Answere I pray you directly to myne Argument So he began with long circumstances to write I perfectly remember not what words but to this effect HVTCH. Mr. Greenwood affirmeth that because the people were conuerted from poperie by her Maiesties trumpet at her coronatiō therfore they consist of all sorts of profane with certaine such like words GREEN You falsefie my former Arg. make no sufficient or direct answere to it Answere directly HVTCH. The Church of England receaueth none to their sacraments but such as make publike declaration of their faith therfore consisteth not of or alloweth any profane people c. Heere we had much to doe about declaration of faith He said they in euerie assemblie had a general confession of sin other confessions of faith so were not to be called profane To which I answered the papists also had their confessions as the Creed Pater noster which they repeated daily in their meetings yet could they not for that verball confession be accompted the true Church Mr. Hutchinsō said the popish Church was the Church though with manie corruptions when I demanded whither the true Church or no he said they were the Church of God To which I answered if yt were not the true Church yt was the Church of the deuill At which they were displeased I should iudg so vncharitablie Well still I denied theyr saying ouer their seruice to be a true sufficient confession to make them Christians affirming they might teach such a verball confession to a parrat HVTCH. Wil you iudg mens harts euen their godfathers doe make a confession for their infants GREEN That is euen such confession as the rest a babling ouer certayne words without knowledg Neither can there anie cōfession be made for infants but in mockerie I iudg not their hearts but I know they are not able to giue accompt of anie faith except the verball repeating certayne words taught them by rote But I will answere your former obiection Your parish assemblies neuer published their conuersion of life vvith knovvledg fruites of repentance seeing they had no doctrine to call them before they vvere all vvithout exception receaued yet are all they their seed of your Church therfore you receaue and allovve the profane c. This Argment is not fullie set downe because Mr. Hutchinson tooke vp the paper neither was yt awnswered Whiles I was writing this last position Mr. Huth was dilating from the 3 of Mathew how Ihon Baptist receaued them that came to his baptisme with small confession no knowledg of their former life yea that the Phariseis Saduceis were baptised c. also the Eunuch verie speedily c. GREEN You falsifie the text deceaue the people where can you proue that the Phariseis Saduceis were baptised of Ihon HVTCH. Heerupon Mr. Hutchinson turned to the 3 of Math began at the 5 verse to read Then vvent out to him Ierusalem al Iudea they vvere baptised of him confessing their sinnes GREEN Were all Iudea they of Ierusalem baptised HVTCH. No none but they that cōfessed their sines were baptiz GREEN This maketh against your self that none were receaued to Ihons baptisme but such as confessed their sins for with you all the world is receaued as membres of your Church theyr seed baptised Heere he would haue made the people beleeue I would haue none receaued to the Doctrine of the Church but they which vvere alreadie called I told him he must put difference betwixt the hearing of doctrine receauinge to be a member of the Church to the sacraments He demanded vvhome I accompted a member of the Church I said such as both by vvord practise ioined themselues in the seruice of God into the fellowship of the true Church c. Then he demanded vvherin the seruice of God consisted I said in the vvhole obedience of his vvil he yet demanded vvherin chieflie c. I answered I would not be catechized but desired him to bring some more euidēt profe that the Phariseis Saduces vvere baptised He said the vvhole chapter proued yt I desired him to draw some one argument from some one verse so he began againe read the 7 verse HVTCH. Novv vvhen he savv manie of the Phariseis Saduces come to his baptisme he said vnto them Generations of vipers vvho hath forvvarned you c. Againe in the 11. verse Iohn said In deed I baptize you vnto amendement of life c. First saith he they vvere forwarned to flee from the vvrath to come 2 they came to his baptisme 3 the text saith Ego baptizo vos c. all these proue they were baptised In that he calleth them generatiōs of vipers yt is euident they obeied not his forewarning neither vvere baptised 2. their comming to his baptisme proueth not that they vvere baptized 3 that same Ego baptizo vos is not referred to them so that euerie vvay you haue falsly made cohaerence in the text whervppon he vvilled me to read yt GREEN I then tooke the booke breeifly collected from the vvhole discourse thus Ierusalem all Iudea came to Ihons ministerie all that confessed their sinnes vvere baptised But when he-saw the Phariseis Saduces come vnto his baptisme he called them Generations of vipers and therfore baptised them not For this disiunctiue sentence but vvhen he savv the Pharises c. sheweth an exception that he baptised not all that came to him in the vvildernes neither vvould he haue called them generations of vipers if he had baptized them Abowt these matters we had much adoe vvhich because his next cōming vvas onlie to cauill about the same I will refer yt to our second cōference It must be remembred that Mr. Hutchinson made promise to me to prooue the Church of Rome the true Church vvhen he came againe Further remember that these matters about the Phariseis Saduces baptisme vvere not written these positions awnsweres which were written Mr. Hutch would needs carrie them avvay vvould neither haue the vvitnesses to keep them or me euer to see them or consider of them And through I though much a doe had gottē him to giue them into the vvitnesses hands yet so soone as I vvas gon lockt vp Mr. vvardens man vvas sent to the gentleman for them vvhoe denijng to deliuer them without our consents Mr. Hutch