Selected quad for the lemma: christian_n
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A44973
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An humble apology for non-conformists with modest and serious reflections on the Friendly debate and the continuation thereof / by a lover of truth and peace.
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Norton, John, 1606-1663.
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1669
(1669)
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Wing H3402; ESTC R20176
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79,882
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174
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Orthodox men not intending evil thereby have in latter times taken up this fashion yet they are generally to be blamed and have much to answer for their Nonconformity herein if we believe the Author of a late Pamphlet call'd the Converted Presbyterian Quest What is to be thought of Afternoon-Sermons is not that a thing wholly superfluous and would it not be better if as the Citizens and others have reduced their Families to one Meal a day so the Ministers would their Congregations to one Sermon a day and so have nothing besides Common-Prayer and Catechism in the evening Deb. p. 89. edit 4. Answ The Lord Falkland in his Speech in Parliament complained of some leading Bishops before the Wars that they cried up Catechising to decry Preaching Catechising indeed is talked of much but by many 't is to be feared it is to justle out the Afternoon-Sermon out of doors for we find in many Churches there is neither Preaching nor Catechising in the Afternoon Of old preaching was accounted praecipuum munus Episcopi the Bishops chief Work or Office Bishop Latimer was very smart against Unpreaching Prelates in his time but of later times the Lord Falkland in his speech in Parliament charged some of that Order that they discouraged and discountenanced Preaching that they preached not themselves and discountenanced them that would And not long before the Wars I heard a Friend a Minister that had been with his Diocesan who said That upon his quoting of Bishop Davenant to the Bishop in justification of something he said the Bishop replied WHAT DO YOU TALK OF HIM A PREACHING-COXCOMB Bishop Latimer Ridley Jewel c. were great Patrons of Preaching and themselves practis'd it Archbishop Grindal went so far as to countenance the Meetings called Prophecyings and Bishop Hall of late thought they might be profitable Former Histories did nor tell stories of any Bishop of the Reformed Religion that gave God thanks that he had not left one Lecture or one afternoon-Sermon in all his Diocess There was a Gentlewoman of good Quality cited a Kingly Preacher viz. Solomon in his Ecclesiastes for preaching in the Evening as well as Morning Eccles 11.6 In the morning sow thy Seed and in the Evening withhold not thy hand In the Country they account those Shepheards most careful of their flocks and to have usually the best Sheep who fothet twice a day The Apostle Paul exhorts ro be instant in season and out of season a Sermon in the afternoon can be but out of season 'T is observed that the Sermons at Court before Queen Elizabeth were constantly in the afternoon And I knew a Parish in the Country where it was desired by the good women That in case their Minister would preach but once a day it might be in the afternoon because they said it might be a meant to keep their Husbands out of the Alehouse The Morning Service according to the Common Prayer-Book being so long they thought a Sermon might be better spared in the morning than in the afternoon Quest Although preaching in the beginning of the planting the Christian Religion might be necessary yet is it so in these days Answ Preaching serves not onely to inform the Understanding but to excite and awaken the Affections and to bring to remembrance what we have been taught before Paul planted and Apollos watered even there where the Apostle Paul had first planted A good Stomach can digest two Meals a day and why may not a Soul of a healthful constitution have two Meals a Week I believe the Christians in Russia have never the fatter Souls for going in lean Pastures for two Meals I mean two Sermons a year Quest Would it not be good Policy not to suffer any to preach but onely to read Common Prayer and the Homilies Would not this be an effectual way and means to prevent Errours and Heresies Rents and Divisions amongst us Doth not this preaching sow many Tares in the Field of the Church Answ I have heard of some Preachers indeed who preach down preaching but I take them to be never a whit the better Preachers nor the better Christians for that I acknowledge the Homilies to contain wholsom and very profitable Doctrine and think I should spend my time better to heat one of them read than to hear some Preachers now-a-days But if ability to read the Book of Common Prayer and the Book of Homilies be all the Book-Learning necessary for a Minister 't is to be feared that some Princes or Parliaments may come before many Ages pass who may be so thrifty as to be willing to save the needless expence of a million or two millions a year in Church-Maintenance and think 20 l. per annum enough for men of such Parts Education and Learning Quest Is not Catechising the younger people in the afternoon a very profitable and a laudable practice Answ This I can say I used It for many years together besides preaching usually twice a day 'T is observed that the Protestants in the begining of the Reformation got advantage over the Papists by their diligence in Catechising and that since the Papists by their diligence the same way have got ground of us I am not against the use of the Church-Catechism for Children and do really think the Right Reverend Bishop Nicholson hath deserved well for bis Exposition of it But I confess I cannot approve of the Vicar that in his Catechising going about to justifie that Question What it thy Name brought that Scripture for it where 't is recorded of our blessed Saviour that he said to the man possessed of the Devil What is thy Name and he answered My Name is Legion But as for the knowledge of the Catechism if it may lawfully be done I could be glad none might be married before they give an account of it Quest. Sith preaching is so necessary what way of preaching is best The Jingling way or the Rational Philosophical way or the Rational Scripture way with Reasons out of Scripture and Testimonies from Scripture Answ I dare not commend the first way which yet I suppose was more practis'd in former times than of late Such as that was of Dr. Pl. on that place of the Canticles My Bed is green Typical My Topical Bed Tropical green Typical Topical Tropical My Bed is green Such as was that of the Doctor and Dignitary at Oxford about the lost Groat such as was the mode of the Wits about thirty years ago and such as was well expressed and exposed since by a Citizen or Countryman who being asked how he liked the Sermon and how the Minister preached Answered He could not say much of it but it ran or sounded thus as if he had said A Pudding a Pie A Pudding-Pie A Pudding for thee A Pie for me A Pudding-Pie For me and thee Nor do I look on him is one of the finest Preachers that lately exhorted his Hearers to put on the Sattin of Sincerity the Purple of Purity
shall be called The Lord our Righteousness and B◠Downham in his Treatise of Justification strongly asserts it And the Doctors of the Chair for 〈◊〉 long time have taught the same Doctrine So that now I should think that Doctor though in the Chair to be besides the Cushion that teaches otherwise Quest Is the difference betwixt the Old and New Covenant this that the Old Covenant made with the Jews propounds temporal rewards and the Gospel propounds eternal and hath this been the Doctrine of the Church of England and of the prime Doctors since the Reformation Deb. p. 26. Answ The 7th Article of the Church of England saith thus The Old Testament is not contrary to the New Both in the Old and New Testament everlasting life is offered to mankind by Christ who is the only Mediatour between God and man wherefore they are not to be heard which say that the old Fathers did look only for transitory promises Quest Do not Nonconformists abuse the people in their preaching by preaching in the Apostolical language That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you Answ I think the Prophet David doth not abuse himself and others when he saith O taste and see that the Lord is gracious Nor the Apostle Paul the Ephesians when he tells them that Jesus Christ came and preached peace to them that were near and to them that were afar off Nor the Galatians when he saith Jesus Christ was evidently set forth crucified amongst them Neither doth Job juggle or cast a mist before his own and others eyes when he saith with these eyes he shall see his Redeemer although we take the interpretation of Mercer on the place of his Recovery here What though the Apostles saw our Saviour in the flesh heard his Sermons and conversed daily with him may not Christians now-a-dayes see him with an eye of Faith in his Word and Sacrament and hear him when he speaks to us in the Writings of the Apostles as it were from Heaven and by the mouthes of his Ministers upon Earth Must no passage or phrase of Scripture be used but in its first signification sure we are that many places of the Old Testament are used in the New chiefly or only by way of accommodation Quest Do the Nonconforming-Ministers amuse and abuse the people when they speak of Spiritual desertions Answ Who so please to read Mr. Perkins his Cases of Conscience Mr. Capel on Temptations and Dr. Sibbs his Souls Conflict although they never saw Dr. Goodwyn may see a Child of Light walking in Darkness And in such a case I would not send for as Saul did one to play upon at Instrument Nor with a Conformist Minister that I knew when his Daughter was in trouble of mind for her sins counsel her to play at Cards Or with another how learned soever they be send them to a Theatre but either to some able Minister or to Prayer the Promises advising them to put them in suit in the Court of Heaven for 't is God only that kills and makes alive he wounds and he heals In his presence is life and his withdrawing or deserting of the soul though for a time only is as the shadow of death If our blessed Lord on the Cross cryed out My God my God why hast thou forsaken me what so great wonder if a Christian under the Cross oft-times complains Why hidest thou thy face and I am troubled Is the Servant above the Master If these things be done in the green tree what shad be done in the dry Quest Are the Nonconformists Time-servers Deb. p. 65. Answ If so why do they not serve the Times now and themselves of the Times Certain it is there are some now Nonconformists whose consciences would not permit them to serve the Times in Bradshaw's or O. Cromwel's dayes divers who were turn'd out for not taking the Engagement have since been outed for Nonconformity They could not serve the Times then and the Times will not serve them now Can ye think we are such Bedlams as to chuse sorrow and suffering Bonds and Imprisonments when we might so easily escape all sufferings and have all honourable imployment in the Ministry and some of us perhaps preferment and advancement like our Brethren that conform Quest Do not the Nonconformists call the Liturgy Broth Answ I never did so and I approve not any that do yet possibly the expression might first be occasioned from that saying of Bishop Bonners formerly mentioned upon our retaining some part of their Service-Book and Ceremonies If they taste of our Broth they may one day come to eat of our Beef And here let me tell a story I have heard that a conformable Minister invited a Friend or Friends to his House to eat a piece of Collect-Beef so he called Beef roasted on the Lord's-day and kept usually cold in the house all the week with allusion 't is to be supposed to the Rubrick which ordinarily enjoyn◠the Collect for the Lords day to be read all the week after I think this Conformists Beef alike unsavory expression with the Nonconformists Broth. Quest Do not Nonoonformists generally reproach and revile the Conformable Ministers for their reading the Common-Prayer and for their Grave and Decent Habits which they wear and do not Nonconforming-Ministers teach them so to do Answ If any there be who scorn or mock at grave godly sober persons for their reading the Liturgy or for their Cassocks Girdles and the like Take them Donatus for me Suppose some few rude persons should slight a Minister for his Cassock are there not others that mock and jeer at those that want the Canonical Habits How many are there that preach not except they have a fling at Nonconformists Are not Nonconformists scorned and scoffed at on the Stage from the Press and from the Pulpit How are they jeered at and made a May-game by this in name Friendly but really Unfriendly Debate 'T is to be thought the Author of it did never seriously consider that saying Non est major confusio quam serii joci and that other of my Lord Bacon That it is an inlet to Atheism to bring the exercise of Religion into contempt in the persons of sundry Preachers Fol my part I esteem it a point of serious and solid Godliness to love honour reverence Piety Gravity Learning and true Worth whether in Conformists or Nonconformists I look upon it as no good evidence that a man is of the higher form in Religion to magnifie and multiply the weaknesses or miscarriages of a few Dissenters to the vilifying and reproach of all or the generality of them As 't is an argument of an unjust Steward instead of an hundred to write fourscore or fifty so is it of a false and bad Accomptant instead of twenty to set down fifty fourscore or an hundred 'T is the method and way of God whom we ought to imitate to overlook the failings of them that are sincere