in his innocent nakednesse then with his devised Fig-leaves how applyed to the Prelaticall Church 103 104. Prelates Service sensuall and heathenish as done to an unknown God fully displayed 104. Prelates pompous Ceremonies like the Cardinals Sumpter 105. No necessity of Prelates Ceremonies sith both Superstitious and Superfluous saving that they are all the Substance of their Religion 106 107. True Reformation ought to have no Ceremonies at all to bind the Conscience 107. Prelates Ceremonies strengthen Superstition and Idolatry and destroy true piety 108. What is that Substance of Religion which Prelates Ceremonies doe fence 106 107. And what strength they adde to his Religion how it is weaknesse not to see 108. Prelates Ceremonies are beggerly Rudiments yea Aegyptian bonds and Babilonish Chaines 108. How by the Prelates Ceremonies so eagrely urged the Jesuites win ground 108 109. Romes Reconciliation hastened by hossing up wodden Altars and hurling down golden Ministers 109. The Jesuites hale in Popery through the Prelates broad Gates he hath layd open ibid. 21. How the Prelate hath layd open the wider-gates of his Catholicke Church by pulling down the walls and bulwarks of Christs true Church 109. The Prelates wider-Gates whither they lead 110. The Prelate hath nothing to doe with the true Faith nor Communion with the true Saints ibid. He perverteth the Scripture Jude 3. falsely applying the Saints Faith to his boundlesse Catholicke Church 110. What Truth the Prelate professeth and with what singlenesse of heart 110 111. And his notorious hypocrisie in deluding the King 111. The Prelate puts all his Book upon the King as published in obedience to his Majesties command ibid. What we may expect from the Prelate who resolves to dye in that Faith wherein he hath lived ibid. And so what hope he can have of Gods favour 112. THE CONTENTS OF THE MAINE POINTS AND PASSAGES IN THIS insuing Reply to the Relation it selfe 2. WHat is that Church whose judgement the Prelate would have the people to depend upon 113. And not to be too busie with Seripture but moderately in things obvious 114. How the Prelate yeelds the Jesuite this that the Church of Rome is a true Church on whose judgement people must depend 115. The Prelate a Subtile underminer of the Truth 116. 4. The papall Church holds no one point of Saving Truth ibid. 23. How the Prelate vants himselfe for the great Champion of the Church of England 117. 29. How the Prelate overthrows Christ while he makes things not Fundamentall in the Faith necessary to some mens Salvation but tells us not who those be 117 118. 31. How the Prelate can bind all men to peace by his Churches Declaration yea though it be not the Churches 118. The dangerous Consequences hereof 119. 32. The Prelate selfe-condemned for adding things contrary and detracting things necessary 120. 35. How against the Prelate things considered in the manner of Beeing onely are fundamentall in the Faith Instanced in sundry particulars 120 121. The many absurd consequences of Popish Reall-presence ibid. 37. How the Prelate makes things which are fundamentall in the Faith not to be so to all men 122. See 117.118 If the Prelate doe at all discerne what the true Faith is what use he makes of it 122. 39. How the Prelate falsifies Lyrinencis and is loth to English some of his words 123. If the Church of Rome be Lupanar Errorum a Stews of Errours 't were good that all should know her in plain English to be so to avoyd her though the Prelate be loth English men should know it ibid. How the Prelate applauds the Iesuite Stapleton in a grosse point of Popery whom Dr. Whitakers in the Chaire at Chambridge confuted 124. How therein the Prelate prefers Stapleton before Bellarmine who comes nearer to the Truth ibid. 40. How the Prelate is justly as an Enemy to Assurance of Salvation and so of true Saving Faith 124. 43. How the Prelate makes it whether for a penny Beliefe of Scripture or the Creed hath the Precedencie of a Prime Principle of Faith 125. 44. The Prelate allows some Traditions for Apostolick though not fundamentall in the Faith ibid. 45. The Prelates Faith of Christs Descent into hell which Article is by the Replyer discussed 126 to 129. 47.48 For default of examining the Articles of the Creed by Scripture the Prelate overthrows two Articles The Catholicke Church and the Communion of Saints 129. 51. Notwithstanding the Prelate we ought boldly and publickly to affirme The Truth against errour 132. 53. The Prelate submits the Faith of the Church of England to the judgement of the Fathers whether her Articles be according to Scripture How by those Fathers he is condemned 132 133. With what limitation the Church within the first 400 or 500. yeares may be sayd to have been at the best 133 134. How the Replyer declines the occasion of entring into a comparison between the truly Reformed Protestant Churches and that within the first 500. years after the Apostles 134. Conformity to Popish Rites a Pretence to bring Papists to Church as the Christians anciently intertained Heathen manners to draw them to be Christians 134. Augustine complained of Ceremonies then when if the Prelate say true the Church was at the best ibid. 62. The Prelates false professed Faith concerning the Catholicke Church in the Creed which he defines to be the Society of all Christians 135. 66. How the Prelate jumpes with Bellarmine for a word of God as well unwritten as written 135 136 137. Baptisme of Infants a Doctrine of Scripture not an unwritten Tradition We ought to repaire to Scripture in all doubts of Faith 137. 72 73. How the Prelates words not well examined may make us beleeve he is no Arminian but Orthodox in the Doctrine of Grace while he abuses the Scripture most palpably and grosly 138 139. 75 76. What the place and office of naturall Reason is in judgeing of Scripture against the Prelate magnifying naturall Reason to the vilifying of Scripture the blindnesse and vanity thereof in judging of Divine things and matters of Faith 140 141 142 143. Vnsanctified Reason how it judges the Scripture to be false 143. How the Prelate is put to his naturall Reasons pregnancy in matters of Faith 1â—2 77. The Prelates extreme blindnesse or malice in saying The Scripture is strengthened with probable Arguments from the light of Nature and humane Testimony to convince men without which it is not so demonstratively evident of it selfe 144. At large confuted 14â— to 149. A secret power in Scripture convincing a naturall man in the reading or hearing of it preached that it is the very word of God 148 149 150. See also A motion of the Replyer to the Prelate how he shall make tryall of the Scriptures powerfull sufficiencie to convince him that it is the word of God 149. A comparison of the Scripture with the Sun 151. Gods word preached and not Church-Tradition the ordinary prime motive and instrument of Faith Illustrated
Preeminence the Bishops Chaire hee prateth against Iohn hee receives not the bretheren and forbids them that would and and throwes them out of the Church by Excommunication just as you and the Pope doe This ambition and erection of Prelacie or Hierarchy was that Mystery of Iniquity which Satan began to brood and hatch even in the Apostles dayes and wherein we have Diotrephes quickly grown up as the first Cocke of the Game of speciall and particular note and name that durst affront even the Apostle himselfe And this Mystery of Iniquity hath continued ever since though at first and in the first Ages it grew up but slowly by reason of a tò katekon à Remora or maine impediment the Roman Empire whose Imperiall Seat being once removed from Rome to Constantinople by Constantine who consopited appeased and put an end to those tenne Persecutions which had been a great hinderance to Antichrists growth then began this Mistery to perke up and the Bishop of Rome Silvester the first could be content to weare a Crown put upon his head by Constantine which upon Boniface the eight his head was multiplyed to a triple Crown one for heaven another for earth and third for purgatory and thus by degrees successively it grew up to that height which we see it now arrived at even its Akmè or full Stature beyond which it cannot goe though it would So as its main care strength and policie is all little enough Parta tueri to maintain what it hath got Now I say in this Mystery of Iniquity I mean the Prelacie or Hierarchy was Antichrist begotten born bred up and at length brought to his full maturity and perfection Now is this Mystery of Iniquity therefore good because it is able to vie and plead Antiquity even as high up as the Apostles owne times and so along downe to ours Though I doe more then suspect that you take it in foule Scorne that I should Anti-christen your Prelacie or Hierarchie with the name of the Mystery of Iniquity But if ye will be patient a while I shall ere I have done give you I hope good Satisfaction And in the meane time the Apostle shall passe his word for it who in the very same place where he speakes of the Mystery of Iniquity doth speake also of the Man of Sin the Son of Perdition who is an Adversary and exalteth himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped who sitteth as God in the Temple of God shewing himselfe that he is God The very recitall of which words may suffice to stay any reasonable mans stomacke from breaking out into outragious impatience against him that saith The Prelacie is the Mystery of Iniquity But you shall have it God willing at full anon Againe some of your Divines goe about to drive the Antiquity of your holy Lent-Fast from the Apostles very times and so to have continued ever since in all Ages and Places where the Church hath taken any rooting And indeed some Christians even then began to observe Touch not Tast not handle not and to observe Times daies Moneths but the Apostle condemns all such observation and as before brands them for Doctrines of Devils and departing from the Faith and denying of Christ. So as though you could prove your Church-Government to have been in use both in and ever since the Apostles times yet it will not follow that it is such a Government as either was practised or yet approved by the Apostles themselves For your Church-Government is altogether Hierarchicall by Prelates which the Apostles never practised themselves nor yet approved but condemned in others that either began to practise it or were inclined and affected thereto Not as Lords over Gods Heritage saith Peter Not as having dominion over your Faith saith Paul It shall not be so among you saith Christ. Diotrephes loveth to have the Preeminence saith Iohn But of this we shall have occasion to speake more at after In the meane time take this with you Did the Apostles nay for some hundred yeares after them did Prelates keep Courts and Consistories with their Chauncellors Archdeacons Commissaries Officialls Tipstaves Pursuivants Apparators like the Roman Lictors with their rodds for terrour and state Or had they their private Courts to excommunicate whom they pleased and that by a dumbe Priest and for every triviall matter and for no just cause Prove these things my Lord to have been in use in the Primitive Ages at the least for the first 500. yeares or in any place but where Diotrâ—phes was untill Antichrist the Pope set up that frame of Hierarchy with all its Equipage Traine and Rabble the just Image whereof you have set up in the Church of England You speak bigge indeed but you cannot be as bigge as your word If you had leasure to read the Histories of the Church and among the rest the Centuries they will show you what a vast difference there is between your Church-Government as both now and of long time it hath been practised in the Church both of Rome and England and that ancient Government practised by the ancient Prelates in the Primitive Ages And in the Popes Canon Law and other Records à Polidor Virgil De Inventorebus rerum c. you may come to know the Antiquity of your Prelaticall Courts and Consistories Chancellors Archdeacons Officialls Commissaries Registers and all the frie. For beyond that seaven hild City the head-spring of this Seaven-Streamed Egyptian Nilus is not found Hath not then the Seperatist as you call him just cause and ground to charge your Church of England with Antichristianisme whose Church-Government and Discipline is such as the Apostles never approved but expresly reproved and condemned and practised the contrary For if your Church-Government be that which the Apostle brands with the Mystery of Iniquity and of Antichrist then surely you cannot excuse it from Antichristianisme If you say This is rather meant of the Church of Rome and of the Pope the Head thereof who you must needs confesse is very like to Antichrist if he be not the very Antichrist as indeed he is then of the Church of England Why wherein differeth the Church of England from that of Rome in Church-Government Do you not say you are both one and the same Church And wherein one and the same but in Church-Government especially Of which we shall speake more anon Now for Antichristianisme you know it comes of Antichrist and Antichrist is a compound word Anti in the Greek signifying both for and against So as Anti-Christ is one that under pretence of being for Christ is against Christ. Such is the Pope who pretends to be Christs Vicar which is as much to say as Antixristos Antichristus as Anthupatos Pro consul so Antichristus Prochristus or Vice-Christ And yet he is Anti Against Antikeimenos an Adversary to Christ as the Apostle sets him forth So as the Pope is
curse them yet can you not doe as that wicked Prophet did in Counselling King Balack to put a stumbling block before the Children of Israel by inticing them to his Idols with his faire Damosels You can tell us that the Church of England and of Rome are one and the Same Church and that her worship of Images is but a trenching or coming neare Idolatry as at after so as none need fear communion with her so he be but ignorant of her Corruptions Of which more hereafter But though you cannot prophesie what is all your practise but a cleare Prognostication and that not onely foretelling but causing and haling in a Deluge of Atheisme and Irreligion flowing in upon you Yea witnesse this your Book which could not spring but from the root of Atheisme and Sourse of all Irreligion and which doth not onely prognosticate nor onely teach the way how Atheisme and Irreligion may gather strength but doth certainly presage and that by necessary consequence most terrible Judgements and Calamities to fall upon the Church of England I would say rather upon the Hierarchy of England and which you doe with both hands in writing and publishing this Book and by all other your practises pull upon your own heads But this your feare of Atheisme and Irreligion to gather strength is say you while the Truth is weakened by an unworthy way of contending What Truth Or what is that unworthy way of contending for the Truth Or what is your Atheisme and Irreligion For all these termes need your interpretation But your prudent modestly therein we will make bold as well as we can to Supply First for Truth it is much in your mouth I meane the name and word Truth But when you name Truth you alwayes mean Falshood as when you Speake of the Church you meane such a Church as is a false Church and when you Speake of Peace you meane such as is a false Peace when your Reconciliation with Rome is a Conspiracie against Christ and his true Church and when you name Priest you meane such as is a false Priest and when you name Devotion you meane such as is a false Devotion of humane devising and when you name Faith as the gift of God you meane not the true Saving Faith whereof the Apostle speakes where he Saith Faith is the gift of God As we shall see at after So as ever under the green leaves of such faire words as Truth Peace Church Devotion Faith c. we may ever Suspect and shal be ever sure to find a false Serpentine Sense to lurke Secondly your unworthy way of contending for the Truth what is it but that which the Apostle exhorts unto that Christians should earnestly contend for the Faith given to the Saints and Paul that we should sunathlein wrastle together as for Mastery or for a Crown for the Faith of the Gospell Now is not this that which you call an unworthy way of contending for the Truth No doubt of thâ—â— As to write Books or preach Sermons proving the Pope to be Antichrist and the Church of Rome to be a false Church or no Church of Christ and no Salvation to be hoped for in that Church and that all true Christians ought to have no Communion with that Church but to abhorre and abandon her as the Lord commandeth and that Prelates are not Jure divino but are Antichristian and their Hierarchy Tyrannicall and that Altars in Churches are a denying of Christ the Onely Altar and that all Ceremonies invented and imposed by men in the Service of God is a will-worship condemned by Christ and his Apostles and many such like This is that unworthy way of contending whereby you say the Truth is weakened No marvaile Thirdly what is that Atheisme and Irreligion which you feare will gather Strength while the Truth is weakened by such an unworthy way of contending This I take it may be taken two wayes Either that by Atheisme you meane the true Faith of Christ which is opposite to the Romish faith wherewith you hold such correspondence for whatsoever is contrary to Romes faith or which is all one your faith is with you branded for Atheisme Or Secondly Atheisme truely and properly taken gathers strength by such an unworthy way of labouring a Reconciliation between the Church of England and the Church of Rome which to make way for you are glad to say that these two Churches are for substance one and the Same Church Now before your time the Church of England though in many things it symbolized with Rome as hath been shewed yet still it renounced all communion with her as being a Strumpet and that great Whore whose Husband is the great Antichrist But now you have so turned the Cat in the pan by making way to bring the Church of England back againe to an union and communion with Rome that you put the people to a stand to a nonplus so as they know not what to beleeve or what to think but are ready to cast off all further thought of God as if there were no God because they see those to flourish and to goe on unpunished who overthrow the faith formerly professed in England seting up the Romish faith againe where it had been cast out and on the other side Preaching and Preachers to be put down and the true Professors to be persecuted and thrown out of all and forced to quit their native Countrey and the like Now where all this is do you but feare that Atheisme gathers Strength Nay is not the root of all your cruely in persecuting Christs Ministers and People meere Atheisme It is noted of the Sadduces that of all other Sects they were the most cruell in their judiciall Censures As Euseb. Eccl. Hist. l. 2. c. 14. out of Iosephus And no marvaile They denyed the Resurrection and the Last Iudgement So as they were Atheists This made them dare to practise all cruelty and injustice For Maxima peccandi illaecebra impunitatis Spes So how durst you be so unjust and cruell in your oppressions and persecutions did you certainly beleeve that there is a Resurrection and Last Judgement wherein you shall be Judged But this by the way 't is an Item And Irreligion also what 's that That 's soon resolved to wit Obstinacie in not admitting of Altars in some Churches Irreveverence in not bowing to Altars and worshiping towards the East and adoring the name Iesus and the like This is with you Irreligion because your whole Religion is placed in these things For so you tell us in the words following L. p. 19. The externall worship of God in his Church is the GREAT WITNESSE to the world that our hearts stand right in the Service of God Take this away or bring it into contempt and what light is there left to shine before men that they may see our Devotion and glorifie our Father which is in heaven P. Surely were it not
that coming as neare as you can to the Papists in their Ceremonies you shall thereby bring them to the Church And surely this is the ready way either to bring Papists to your Church or you to their Church But I say the Church was so pestered with Rites and Ceremonies even in Augustins dayes that he complained that Christians were now in a worse case and condition under the Gospel then the Iewes were under the Law for though their yoake was grievous yet those Leviticall rites were of Gods owne ordaining and commandement but Christians saith he are brought under an intolerable yoake of Ceremonies of mens devising and imposing But now on the other side if I should enter into a Comparison between the Reformed Churches since Luther and those Primitive and ancient Churches as aforesaid I know it would be very tedious to your Lordship and extremely move your Patience especially if I should by many degrees preferre Calvin Bezâ— Zanchius Iunius and many hundred more Worthies both for learning and piety and chiefly for Soundnesse in Doctrine in the Reformed Churches beyond the Seaes yea and not a few on this side as Cranmer Ridley Latimer Hooper all Martyrs Iewel Whitakers Reynolds Perkins with infinite more and all within one Century before such as those Centuries aforesayd produced whose Names for Envy-sake I forbeare to mention Lastly you say you are content to submit to them in all those points of Doctrine If you be then for Shame cleare away those Cloudes which the said Declaration hath over-cast your Articles withall and cast away your Arminian Pelagian sense and take off your Suspension of them and let them speak one single truth as they formerly did and as all understood them according to the Scriptures L. p. 62. The Catholicke Church we beleeve in our Creed to be the Society of all Christians P. What you beleeve is one thing But we beleeve the Catholicke Church of Christ in the Creed to be the number and Society of all the Elect as the next Article expounds it The Communion of Saints but not that Company of all Christians which you name and meane Christians in name and profession tag and ragge pell mell good and bad Papists and Protestants of which the greatest number are no true living members of the true Catholick Church the mysticall body whereof Christ is the Head and which by Faith onely we apprehend for we beleeve the Holy Catholicke Church but cannot discerne with our bodily eyes as we doe a visible Object This is that Church which Christ loved for which he gave himselfe that he might sanctifie and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word to present it to himselfe a glorious Church not having spot or wrinckle or any such thing but that it should be holy and without blemish This we beleeve to be the Holy Catholicke Church and no other But thus indeed as you tell us before you make wider the Gates of the Catholicke Church then ever Christ made them or rather indeed you exclude the Catholicke Church of Gods Elect and set up a new Catholicke Church which may be seen but ought not to be beleeved L. p. 66. Agreed on for me also it shal be that Gods word may be written and unwritten P. Agreed on with whom Even with no lesse then Bellarmine For in the very next words you give us the reason why it is agreed upon for you that Gods word may be written and unwritten For Say you Cardinall Bellarmine tells us truely that it is not the writing or Printing that makes Scripture the word of God but it is the Prime unerring Essentiall Truth God himselfe uttering and revealing it to his Church that makes it Verbum Dei the word of God Doth Bellarmine say so And that truely And to what end I pray you doth the Cardinall say so Is it not to overthrow the Scripture for being the Sole word of God and to bring in another word of God which he calls verbum non Scriptum an unwritten word that is a word besides the Scriptures and equall to the Scriptures which is Romes unwritten Traditions And to this end and purpose Bellarmine using these words doth he tell you truely and is this the reason for which it is agreed on for you that Gods word may be written and unwritten Now though it be true that that which is spoken by God is his word though it be not written yet to us there is now no other word of God but that which is written that which is contained in the Scriptures And this word written is that alone which our Faith is grounded and settled upon According to that of Iohn Many other Signes truely did Iesus in the presence of his Disciples which are not written in this Booke But these things are written that ye might beleeve that Iesus is the Christ the Son of God and that beleeving ye might have life through his Name So as we are not to inquire further what Christ spake or did besides what we find written But your Lordship tells us before of certaine Traditions Apostolicall which it seems are that word of God which may be unwritten For you say If the Scripture be a Foundation to which we are to goe for witnesse if there â—e doubt about the Faith and in which we are to find the thing that is to be beleeved as necessary in the Faith we never did nor never will refuse any Tradition that is Vniversall and Apostolicke for the better exposition of the Scripture And to this place you referre that which you say pag. 58. As for Tradition I have said enough for that and as much as A. C. where 't is truely Apostolicall From which words first we observe that you make but an If of the Scripture as a Foundation If the Scripture be a Foundation and If in it we are to find the thing that is to be beleeved as If it were to be found in any thing else And Secondly how home you come to A C. the Jesuite in admitting Tradition Apostolicke to expound any doubt about the Faith and so with Bellarmine you are agreed for a word of God unwritten as well as written And you further adde here pag. 66. Speaking of the Scriptures their being written gave them no Authority at all in regard of themselves Written or unwritten the Word was the same But it was written that it might be the better preserved and continued with the more integrity to the use of the Church and the more faithfully in our memories So you Now 't is true that by the writing of the Scripturâ—s Gods word contained therein is preserved continued in integrity and the more faithfully kept in our mâ—mories But is thiâ— all Nay the very writing of them though it added no Authority to Gods word in regard of it selfe yet as the Scriptures are to us Gods word is of the greater Authority because written For we acknowledge no other word of God as
Anicetus and they being at some small oddes between them yet preserved peace and did not fall out about this matter For neither could Anicetus perswade Polycarpus not to observe it nor did Polycarpus perswade Anicetus to observe it but each left other to their own Customes And thus they communicated together and in the Church or Congregation Anicetus gave the Eucharist to Polycarpus out of a reverent respect and so they dismissed each other in peace and in all Churches but those that observed it and those that observed it not had peace one with another And thus Irenaeus pherònumos tìs according to his Name became a Peace-maker to all the Churches So Eusebius Now as these things I here relate by Occasion so the Consideration that sundry particulars therein may be not unusefull As 1. That things Indifferent and of humane Ordinance in matters of Religion ought not to be imposed upon mens Consciences as necessary to be observed but in such things Christian Congregations or Churches ought to be left free Secondly in variety or difference in opinions or manners and customes in things Indifferent Christians may and should keep fast the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace and testifie the unanamity of Faith in the diversity of Factions nothing being done against Gods word One man saith the Apostle esteemeth one day above another another esteemeth every day alike Let every man be perswaded in his own mind And v. 13. Let us not judge one another in these things but judge this rather that no man put a stumbling blocke or an occasion to fall in his brothers way And v. 19. Let us follow after the things that make for peace and things wherewith one may edifie another So All meates are in their own nature cleane but of any think this or that uncleane to him it is uncleane And that whole Chapter is of things indifferent such at least as those Primitive times in the more tender infancie of the Church admitted and esteemed indifferent as of Dayes and Meates wherein mens Consciences were not to be forced And as concerning our Christian liberty we must take heed saith the Apostle least by any meanes it become a stumbling block to them that are weak Thus we see what the Christians in the primitive Ages did Thus did the Bishops of Rome themselves before Victor whom Irenaeus calls Presbutérous Presbiters Thirdly Victor is reprooved by Irenaeus for breaking this peace among the Christian Churches and sâ—eking to bring their Christian liberty â—nto bondage by forcing them is conforme to his assumed nâ—w Altar wherein his Antichristian pride and Tyranny began to shâ—w it selfe in attempting what his Predecessors 〈◊〉 not doâ— in this kind Fourthly Victor being thus reproved defiâ—â—ed from his violent course and yeelded to Irenaeus his Allegations and so gave way for Churches to injoy their liberty with peace Now my Lord to apply these things Hereby you may see how things in their own nature indifferent ought to be left free and not to be made burthens and bonds to mens Consciences that so Christian Liberty and Peace may be preserved inviolate You see how those ancient Bishops or Presbyters of Rome bound not this liberty brake not this peace You see how Victor presuming to violate both yet upon the reproofe of Irenaeus though inferiour to him in place he yeelded to reason suffered not pride or passion to predominate but left to the Churches both their Liberty and Peace But now for you my Lord you are not contented onely to impose with rigour upon mens Consciences those Ceremonies which you otherwise call Indifferent yet enforce them as necessary as being also by mans Laws Commanded and such as in point of Indifferencie might justly be questioned were they not superstitious but also in erecting and imposing both besides Mans Law and against Gods Law other both idolatrous and superstitious devises as your stone or woodden Altars with their Equipage and service in adorations and the like and those borrowed from the Church of Rome her selfe none since Victor infinitely corrupted and deeply deceived yea drowned in all Idolatries and Superstitions which have been of late so violently and universally pressed upon all Churches within your Reach that what confusions or combustions it may further cause the Lord knows But this we are sure of that as the liberty of Mens Consciences is hereby generally brought into bondage and both the outward and inward peace of the Churches violated and broken to pieces while you cry for peace and cease not to presse your Vniversall Conformity as if it were the way of quenching the flame to poure out the Oyle of a meere nominall Peace so the Faith of Christ and the salvation of Christian mens soules is hereby utterly subverted as formerly is shewed And of these things you have been sufficiently admonished and convinced by some Ministers of Christ. But you say It was too roughly done not as Irenaeus reproved Victor Is that all But consider how truly And how diseases the more desperate require the sharper medicines Yea as the Poet said Immedicabile vulnus Ense recidendum est ne pars sincera trahatur I leave you to English it But that the reproofe were true though sharpe did you as Victor did who suffered himselfe to be victus overcome by Irenaeus his reproofe and Allegation Nay you though both victus convictus vanquished and convinced in your Conscience and knowledge of the truth of all those enormities which you were charged withall yet you must be Victor not resting till you had sent away your Reprover with a Censure more bitter and sharper then the sharp reproofe could be and yet not desisting from your violent course to enforce an Universall Conformity whereby the whole Land is infected with terrible combustions and those no lesse further dangerous then already full of dammage Such a Peace-maker is your Conformity Is this the way think you to make you Victor Soft and faire For though perhaps you glory in your tyrannicall conquest over the poore Body of your Reprover yet while your spirit doth to use the Apostles word to the same purpose hupernikan become more then Victor as before is noted and so his Cause not foyled but confirmed and crowned in his suffering for it never think your selfe a Victor No no my Lord never think to be victor by fighting against Christ Lay down your violence in pressing your Conformity fight not against the common peace by disturbing the peace of mens Consciences Lay not siege to Christian liberty in inforcing even things indifferent and how much lesse such as are both in their nature and use Idolatrous Superstitious and directly against the expresse word of God But that you will that you must needs set up your Romish Altars with your other devices sutable yet inforce them upon Gods Ministers and People by your terrible commands and threats armed with High-Commission Power or Princes Edicts Convince men as much as you can by
what Of no lesse then Heresie and Schisme and other sinne too living and dying in the Roman faith Nay if there be but perill though great perill these pregnant Wits have wayes and wiles enough to avoyd all such perills and that by the cleane strength of their Art of equivocation wherein they are become the most expert Masters in the world Except they have forgotten it it is so long agoe since our Judges were wont to put them shrewdly to it as to confesse whether they were Priests or no which confession then was as good as to be hangd And you say elsewhere such can make a short cut to heaven when they lye a dying saying They renounce all their own merits whither their many bad or their few Good merits is not known and rely onely upon Christs merits for salvation As your good Brother Stephen Gardiner did at his death as before But when they dye in so good a mood though they may seem as Gardiner seemed to dye in the faith yet in charity they do not while they leave not the same gappe open for the people by which themselves get through concealing Iustification by Faith from the silly vulgar In which desperate case had not your Lordships charity put in to helpe at a dead lift to teach them a blind way to heaven which scarce any Jesuites before you ever knew What had become of them But alas As you delude those silly ignorants by telling them such a way leads to heaven which will carry them straight to hell so on the other side you doe but dally with A. C. and his fellows in telling them they are in perill onely when they are in the very precipice of perdition But if you intended to be their Ghostly Father indeed you should have told them plainly Their Religion is Idolatry Heresie Schisme Apostacie Antichristianisme Infidelity and all manner of Inâ—quity and Impiety so as to live and dye therein is inevitable damnation to all Papists whatsoever but double damnation to those that know it For as Christ saith That servant which knew his Lords will and prepared not himselfe neither did according to his will shal be beaten with many stripes But he that knew not and did commit things worthy of stripes shal be beaten with few stripes But what should a man speake to the deafe Adder that stoppes her eare and will not hearken to the voyce of Charmers charming never so wisely I will follow my Lords Councel Let them alone They be blind leaders of the blind and if the blind lead the blind they shall both fall into the pit And as he saith to the Pharisees Fill ye up the measure of your Fathers But how come you to say Ther 's danger of Schisme living and dying in the Roman faith What Can a man be a Schismaticke being a Romanist Then is not the Church of Rome her selfe a Schismatick And so the Church of England all one Church And so your Catholicke Church of which you and Rome are all Schismaticks Look to it But I may not leap over that which you have stumbled upon namely Romes Tyranny to boot And it were well if such Tyranny were confined to Rome saving that all Tyranny is such as it will not be confined to any place within any bounds You say that the Church of England and that of Rome are one and the same Church Certainly then this One Church what ever you pretend of the Catholick Church is of such a constitution as whose very foundation is Tyranny because Hierarchicall As Pope Hadoian 4. an English man lying extreme sick said That there was no life more wicked then the Popes whose Popedome was founded in blood and is maintained with blood wherein he is Romulus his successor who in laying the first foundation of Rome slew his brother Remus And wherein doth the Tyranny of your Popedome in the Church of England come short of the Popes saving that he hath a more powerfull Principality then you have Have not you in your hand like that Roman Iupiter the Pope your thunderbolâ— of Excommunication to blast and cast out of the Church whom you please or those who do not please you Do not the Censures of your High Commission like the Popes Court of Inquisitâ—â—n extend to the spoyling of good Ministers and Christians of all liberty and livelyhood You will say You use no fagots as Rome doth 'T is true 't is not yet come to that But wheâ—'s the default You onely want a Law But in the mean time you want not your devises armed both with your own power and borrowed of others to afflict men worse then with death as before is shewed in the forenamed examples And therfore from all such Tyranny both English and Romish the Lord deliver us L. p. 299. I do indeed for my part leaving other men free to their own judgement acknowledge a possibility of salvation in the Roman Church But so as that which I grant to Romanists is not as they are Romanists but as they are Christians that is as they beleeve the Creed and hold the Foundation Christ himselfe not as they associate themselves wittingly and knowingly to the grosse superstitions of the Romish Church P. Now you speake a little more plaine then before But how do you leave other men free to their own judgement when for not being of your judgement in this point you censâ—re them of stiffenesse and churlishnesse and want of Charity And yet you your selfe say that there is no possibility of Salvation for Romanists as they are Romanists So as your judgement is That Romanists as they are Romanists have no possibility of Salvation Ergo no Papist as a Papist living and dying in the faith and Religion of Popery can possibly be saved And just so say those Protestants whom you Censure for stiffe churlish and uncharitable Onely you qualifie it with this Condition If they wittingly and knowingly associate themselves to the grosse Superstition of the Romish Church so as still you save harmlesse your silly ignorant Papists that know nothing at all whether they doe and beleeve right or wrong And you distinguish That as Romanists they cannot be saved but as Christians beleeving the Creed and holding the foundation Christ. But we told you before that your silly ignorant Papists do not so much as understand or know the very letter of the Creed how much lesse beleeve it If they can mumble over their Creed as many a blind Priest doth his Mâ—sse 't is in a strange tongue and they say it for one of their blind and superstitious Prayers as they doe their Ave Marie So that way what hope or possibility can they have of salvâ—tion And for holding the foundation Christ to that we have before sufficiently proved the Contrary But say you they are Christians So you say they are Romanists too As one telling the Emperour Sigismund of Iulianus the Cardinal speaking somthing in his Commendation he
let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity Loe here be two things joyned together which must not be parted 1. The Lord knoweth who are his here 's Gods foundation layd in his Eternall Counsell and Purpose according to that of the Apostle O'ùs proégno Whom he foreknew not foresaw he preaestinated to be conformed to the Image of his Son c. Here 's Gods foundation that stands sure and hath this seale The Lord knoweth who are his Now they that are Christs do so hold this foundation as that they are firmly built upon it which is properly to hold the Foundation For if a house stand not upon the foundation how can it be said to hold the foundation Now how come we to know whether a man doe thus truly hold the foundation Christ or no Why if he be built upon this Foundation And what is it to be built upon this Foundation The Apostle tells us which is the second part of this seale that settles us upon this Foundation And let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity Now to name the Name of Christ is not to professe Christ as nominall Christians as Papists doe To apply this then to your hopefull Papist or Christian Romanist He names the name of Christ he professeth Christ. Thus say you he holds the Foundation Christ. No say I No saith the Apostle For being a Roman-Christian he professeth he practiseth he liveth in the Religion and faith of Rome to wit Popery and this Popâ—ry is iniquity yea the very Mystery of Iniquity and the Religion of the Whore of Babylon whose golden Cup of Christian Profession is full of abominations and spirituall fornications This being iniquity he that holds the foundation Christ must depart from it Or els for all his naming the Name of Christ he holds not the foundation of God nor doth God know or acknowledge that man to be one of his he is not sealed And therfore your hope of such that are thus purblind seeing their errour but not departing from it is as vaine as your charity towards those that are stone-blind And you adde Hold the Foundation and live accordingly That is have the bare name of a Christian and live and dye a Papist which to doe you must needs confesse cannot stand with the possibility of Salvation And then what becomes of your hope For how can holding the foundation and living accordingly stand with the profession and practise Faith and Religion of Popery And know ye not That not every one that saith Lord Lord shall enter into the Kingdome of heaven but he saith Christ that Doth the will of my Father which is in heaven And what is that will That every one that nameth the Name of Christ depart from Iniquity What Iniquity All Iniquity But what is iniquity All iniquity is either morall or spirituall Morall iniquity is all that which is a breach of any of the Commandements of the second Table as murther Adultery theft falsewitnesse covetousnesse lust disâ—bedience to Parents and lawfull Governours in lawfull things and the like Spirituall iniquity is such as is against the Commandements of the first Table as Infidelity hatred of the Truth Idolatry as in the worship of Images will-worship superstition in Gods worship taking of Gods name in vaine in professing Christ and obeying Antichrist profanation of the Lords Sabbath day c. Now all such iniquity both morall and spirituall even all such spirituall wickednesses in high places a true Christian must not onely wrestle against but depart and flee from Otherwise though he shall say to Christ in that day Lord Lord Hâ—ve we not prophecied in thy Name and in thy Name have cast out Devils and in thy Name have done many wonderfull works as perhaps the Mountebank Friers and Priests will say of their lying wonders the marks of Antichrist Loe here all in Christs name no lesse yet Christ will professe unto them I never knew you depart from me ye workers of iniquity Thus Christ professeth he knows not those that onely professe him So as whatever Papists may boast of or pretend and professe that they are Catholicks that they are Christians that they hold the Creed and live a Religious life as their Ghostly Fathers teach them as we noted before yet living and dying Papists Christ shall certainly say unto them all aswell the starke blind as the purblind and aswell both these as the knowing men of Rome Depart from me all ye workers of Iniquity ye Idolaters ye Infidels ye Antichristians ye Hypocrites ye blind and ignorant I never knew you And you adde They hazzard themselves extremely by keeping so closse to that which is superstition and in the case of Images comes too neare to Idolatry Thus I perceive you will not rayse up your voyce one note higher then to superstition or at the most too â—eare Idolatry Not Idolatry outright onely bordering closse upon it too neare it God wote as Purgatory is too neare hell onely a Wainscot between and how soon burnt down and long ere now with so hot a fire on both sides so as 't is to be more then feared Purgatory and Hell by this time are become both one and so while your too neare Borderers upon Idolatry your worshipers of Images might hope to find some cold comfort when they should be in their hot Purgatory that by the vertue of a few Masses they may quickly be dispatched thence they find now such a confusion and mixture of Hell and Purgatory that they cannot find the way out And so neare Idolatry is your case of Images that it is not possible for the subtilest Schoolman to distinguish between them such is their not onely contiguity but continuity the Scripture calling an Image an Idol cÃdolon being in the Grammaticall and common construction an Image and in the Ecclesiasticall use of the Word any Image or Representation which men have devised to set up for a Religious use as in or by it to worship God or Saint And we have shewed before that if the Heathen in the worship of ther Images were Idolaters then how much more the Papists which both in their Doctrine and Practise do farre outstrippe the Heathen Nor in the case of Images alone are Papists most grosse and desperate Idolaters but also in the worship of their breaden God and in their worship of Angels and Invocation of Saints making them so many Gods as also the Crosse it selfe which they both invocate and worship with Latria which they call divine worship as before L. p. 302. Worth once mislead is of all other the greatest misleader P. And who of more worth in the account of some in the world then your Lordship If then this worth be misled as your Charity and Hope of misled Papists it becomes of all other the greatest misleader For this worth is become the greatest misleader both of Papists and Protestants both of the
would not commit to either of them any part of this his Prerogative in appointing what manner of service they thought good or in the fashion of building the Temple Nor yet did the Lord deliver the patterne of these things by tradition but in writing that in nothing they should come short or over shoot their bounds Neither had any of the Kings of Iudah the power afterwards either to adde or alter the least thing but at their perill No not the King and the Priest together as you would now have it So as when in a cafe of necessity no Law or Rule for us to take liberty to doe what we please without warrant from Gods word King Ezechias was to keep the Passeover in the Second Moneth he did it not alone nor with the Priest alone but with the unanimous assent and approbation of all the Princes and People in Ierusalem So as the thing pleased the King and all the Congregation Likewise when King David was to bring the Arke to Ierusalem he did it not alone or with the Priest alone but gathered all the chosen men of Israel together about it And what to doe Not what himselfe and they thought fit but according to the Law and Commandement of the Lord. And is it come to this passe now that the King and the Priest must doe all and that according to their owne Fancie in the worship and service of God When the Priest Vriah had according to the Kings Commandement built an Altar according to the patterne sent him by the King from Damascus on which the King offered Sacrifice did God approve it Is he not branded with this note which sticks upon his name to this day This is that King Ahaz And did not the Lord smite King Vzziah with Leprosie for offering Incense which pertained to the Priest onely And was not Vzzah smitten for but puting his Hand to stay the Arke when the Oxen shook it it not pertaining to him being but a Levite and not a Priest who onely was to meddle with the Arke So dangerous is it for men to take upon them be they Prince or Priest or both to intermeddle in any thing about the service of God which God hath not given them warrant for Now where hath Christ or his Apostles from him left any such power to man Prince or Priest or both as you claim and usurpe or to the Church to ordaine any Ceremonies in Religion to bind the Conscience of his People to the observation of them And if ye have either a pattern or pattent for it from Christ and under black and white in writing not by any unwritten Tradition produce and shew it But none can you shew we are sure I know your usuall places which you use to wrest for this purpose As 1 Cor. 14 4â— Let all things be done Decently and in in Order Hereupon it seemeth your words of decencie and orderly settlement are grounded But what conclude you hence Ergo the King and the Priest although in things of this nature you use the King but as a Cypher to back and countenance the Priest in what he doth may appoint what Ceremonies they please in the service of God But frame your Argument in a Syllogisme All things in the Church are to be done Decently and in Order But for the King and the Priest to prescribe and impose what Ceremonies they please in Gods Service is Decent and Orderly Ergo it is left to the Power of the King and the Priest to prescribe and impose what Ceremonies they please in Gods Service Or thus What is Decent and according to Order is lawfull to be done in the worship of God But for the King and Priest to prescribe and impose Ceremomonies in Gods Service is Decent and according to order Therefore it is lawfull for the King and the Priest to prescribe and impose Ceremonies in the Service of God Now if I have not framed your Argument according to your mind I desire you to mend it But I conceive it is all that can be framed upon that test which you alledge so as if you argue not thus you can make nothing at all of it according to the Rules of Logick Nor for answere First I deny that the Apostle speakes there of the Service of God in Prayer but onely of an Order and Dencie in Prophecying such as was then in use in the Church as first that it should be done one by one and not confusedly Secondly that women should not be permitted to speak in the Church Thirdly that it be not in a strange tongue without an Interpreter And such like And to this hath that of the Apostle particular and immdediate reference Let all things be done decently and in order As for Praying in the Church the Apostle gives no other Rule but this that it be not done in a strange tongue Againe we have before excluded the Priest you speak of from having any thing at all to doe or meddle in Gods service for the Reasons fore-shewed So as if for the King and the Priest you put the Church I answere First your Prelaticall Church is a false Church as hath beed proved and so with your Priest is altogether excluded here from having any such power as to ordain Ceremonies in Gods service to bind the Consciences of Gods people For in so doing you shew your selves to be Antichrists and Tyrants over mens soules as before is shewed Secondly not even the true Churches and Congregations of Christ the King Minister and People put together have power to ordaine and impose any Ceremony in Gods service to bind the Conscience For the Apostles themselves neither had nor exercised any such power We find not any one footstep of it in all the New Testament But in this case Christians were left altogether free And the Apostle admonisheth the Collossians and in them all Christians Saying Beware least any man spoyle you through Philosophy and vaine deceit after the Tradition of men after the rudiments of the world and not after Christ. And v. 16. Let no man judge you in meat or drink or in respect of an holy day c. which are a shadow of things to come but the body is of Christ. Let no man Judge you that is subject not your Conscience to Mans command and ordinance in these things as matter of Religion And v. 20. If ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world why as living in the world are subject to Ordinances Touch not Tast not Handle not which all are to perish with the using being after the Commandements and Doctrine of men which have indeed a Shew of wisedome in will-worship and humility in neglecting of the body not in any honour to the Satisfying of the flesh The summe of all which is to shew that Christians being freed by Christs death from all humane Ordinances and Traditions in matters of Religion they ought to
Rome What thankes the Church of England may returne you I know not But thus did not any of your Predecessors ever And have you more Charity or more Devotion then they had And for the hope in you whereof you give account to the world and your faith testified wherein you have lived and resolve to dye I will say as Ierome said to the Pelagians Sententias vestras prodidisse Superasse est The discovery of your opinions is our victory So thus to give account of your hope and testifie your faith to all the world as that wherein you have lived and resolve to dye Let 's see by your own testimony now irrevocably upon Record what to judge of you formerly namely as of one Qui cum Lacte nutricis errorem Suxisse videatur who seemeth to have sucked in Errour with his Nurses Milke As the Orator Speakes of all naturall men and what to expect of you hereafter that as you have lived a most notorious Persecuter of the truth of Christ and of his Saints So we must look for it Still so long as you live And this is our victory that we have to deale with one who is not now any longer a disguised but unmasked Enemy of the true Faith and Religion of JESUS CHRIST And however you may flatter your selfe in regard of the World and favour in Court yet if you repent not of your former life but dye as you have lived you can have neither hope nor faith in expecting Gods blessing or favour And so I passe from your Dedicatory to your Discourse as followeth THE REPLIE TO THE RELATION OF THE CONFERENCE L. p. 2. IT is very fit the People should look to the Iudgement of the Church before they be too busie with particulars But yet neither the Scripture nor any good Authority denyes them some moderate use of their own understanding and judgement especially in things familiar and evident which even ordinary Capacities may as easily understand as read And therefore some particulars a Christian may judge without depending P. What you meane by Church you have told us before namely that wherein your Church of England and that of Rome are one and the same one Prelaticall and Hierarchicall Church out of which are excluded all those Reformed Churches which neither have nor acknowledge Prelates to be of divine Institution We have also made a Say of the difficulties So as it is no difficulty to divine what Christians we are like to prove in understanding and judgement in the mystery of Faith and Salvation when we must be limited to that narrow Scantling of some moderate use of our owne understanding and Iudgement and that but in things familiar and evident to every ordinary Capacity O poore Christians that for Understanding in the Scripture must be at the allowance of Antichristian Lords who would bring into bondage Gods people by Chaining them up in Darknesse and Ignorance and doe with them as Nahash the Ammonite answered the men of Iabeth Gilead On this condition will I make a Covenant with you that I may thrust out all your right eyes and lay it for a reproach upon all Israel But the Apostle exhorts Christians Saying Be not children in understanding howbeit in malice be children but in understanding Téleio ginesthe be perfect And Leaving the Principles of the Doctrine of Christ Let us goe on unto perfection And Strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age even those who by reason of use have their Senses exercised to discerne both good and evill But you allow Christians onely some moderate use of their owne understanding and that in things familiar and evident which men of ordinary Capacities may as easily understand as read So as what they read except with the very reading they doe as easily understand it as they read it they must not meditate further of it but in what they presently upon the reading understand not they must depend upon your Churches judgement So as you would exclude your Christians from being of those blessed men of whom David Speakes which delight in the Law of the Lord and in his Law to meditate day and night You would not have them with use to exercise their wits and Senses to discerne 〈◊〉 good and evill Yea the Apostle useth a word very emphaticall diâ— tò exin by an habituall use or long custome have their Senses gegumnasmâ—na exercised the word properly signifieth such an exercise as Wrastlers or such as contend for victory doe use which is with all their might and strength being train'd up unto it by long exercise So as the Scripture doth not onely not forbid but Commands and exhorts Christians to all diligence in the Study of the Scriptures That their hearts might be comforted being knit together in love and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding to the aknowledgement of the Mystery of God as the Apostle speakes And Let the word of God dwell in you richly in all wisedome teaching and admonishing one another c. And the Bereans are Said to be dugenésteroi more noble then those of Thesselonica in that they received the word with all readinesse of mind and searched the Scriptures dayly whether those things were so which Paul taught Loe â—ere they examined Pauls Doctrine by the Scriptures they depended not upon his bare word and therefore the Holy Ghost markes them forth for men of a more noble spirit But you would have your Christians to be poore and beggerly in the knowledge of the mystery of Christ and to be so base-minded as in all things which are not obvious to every Capacity to depend meerely upon your Church-Authority and Judgement So as what you meane hereby except to bring into your Church of England the Iesuiticall blind obedience captivating the peoples senses to your Dictates that they might pinne their Salvation and Faith upon your Priests Sleeve I cannot imagine Which will appeare yet more clearely at after Againe these words of yours are in Answere to the Jesuit's words namely That it was not for the Lady or any other unlearned Persons to take upon them to judge of Particulars without depending upon the Iudgement of the true Church To which all your Answere in full is as before Wherein you easily let the Jesuite slip and run away with this that the Church of Rome is that true Church on whose Iudgement for Particulars all unlearned Persons must depend But you understand the true Church to be that wherein you told us before your Church of England and of Rome are one and the Same And so for Rome to be a true Church you plainly confesse at after But your words here may stand you in very good Stead to be a faire Item to all the Readers of your Booke not to be too busie with the Particulars of it but first to look to the Iudgement of the Church of England whose mouth you seem to be in this
did locally in Soule descend into Hell the place of the damned without any proofe from Scripture is Sin My reasons are these 1. Because this opens a gappe to men to beleeve humane Traditions to be of Faith to Salvation as of equall credit and authority to the Scriptures Now it cannot be proved that the Creed it selfe with its forme and words and Articles and Title called The Apostles Creed is other then a humane Tradition or that the Apostles composed the Creed Secondly This argues as a too high estimation of a thing humane as if it were autópistos of selfe-Credit so a too base estimation and undervaluing of the holy Scripture as if they alone were not the Rule of Faith or not to be relieâ— and rested on alone for all matters concerning Christian Faith So as to give Credit to any thing else besides the Scripture as of equall Authority with the Scripture as you make your Creed to be and not examining it by the Scripture is a detracting from the Authority of Scripture and consequently a denying of the Scripture to be the Sole Rule of Faith For the Creed it is either a part of the Scripture or not a part if it be not a part of Scripture as indeed it is not then all the Articles of Faith in it being but a small abridgement of Christian Faith and so of necessity and in comparison of Scripture it selfe very obscure and Scanty are to be proved and illustrated from Scripture the Sole Rule of Faith and Tryall of all Truths Thirdly in Particular to beleeve Christs descent in Soule into hell locally must stand with some reason and analogy or proportion of Faith layd downe in the Scripture For Christ did or suffered nothing but the Scripture shews the Reason Cause and End of it For instance Isaiah Saith To us a Child is borne to us a Son is given So the Angel to the Shepheards To you is borne this day a Saviour which is Christ the Lord. This then shews the End of Christs Incarnation namely for our Salvation Then for his Death He was delivered up for our Sins And Forasmuch as the Children were partakers of flesh and blood he also himselfe likewise took part of the Same that through death he might destroy him that had the power of dâ—ath that is the Devil And deliver them who through feare of death were all their life time subject to bondage So for his Resurrection He rose againe for our Iustification So for his Ascention It was that he might send the Holy Ghost and goe to prepare a place in heaven for all his So for his Sitting at Gods right hand There he makes Intercession for his people rules as King his Church in preserving protecting governing his people and makeing his and their foes his Footstoole But for any such thing as Descent into hell neither is it found in the Scripture nor much lesse any reasons given there of it Indeed Peter Speaking of Christs Resurrection alledgeth Psal. 16. Thou wilt not leave my Soule in Hell So in the English In the Hebrew it is commonly taken for the Grave not for the place of the damned But will you take Peters exposition of it Speaking by Christs owne Spirit This saith he David Seeing before Spake of the Resurrection of Christ that his Soule was not left in Hell neither his flesh did see Corruption So then this place Psal. 16. was by the Holy Ghosts owne Interpretation a Prophecie of Christs Resurrection from the Grave and not of any Descent into Hell the place of the damned For he is not said to rise out of hell as you say he went downe into Hell nor to ascend out of Hell as you beleeve he descended into Hell Will you have a particular Article of Christs descent into Hell and shall you not need another Article for his Ascent out of Hell againe And the Apostle saith Christ descended Eis tà katótera mère tes ges to the lowest parts of the Earth which is spoken of his humiliation to the Death and the Grave but here is no word of his Descent into any such place as Hell the place of the damned But admit your Faith to be true that Christs Soule descended locally into Hell I aske to what end or purpose Can you shew any Reason from Scripture for this Will you say his Soule went thither to suffer Surely that had its Consummatum est upon the Crosse there it was finished Will you say he went to triumph over the Devil in his owne Dâ—nne That was also done on his Crosse as on his Triumphall Chariot And can you give any reason why Christ should descend into hell in regard of us What that so he might deliver our Soules out of Hell Surely this also was done in his Death And againe if it were necessary that Christs soule should goe locally into hell to deliver our soules then also it was necessary for his body to descend into hell to deliver our bodies from thence For he came to redeem our bodies as well as our soules Or what els can you Say Certainly what ever you can invent the Scripture will presently discover the vanity of it But for my part I dare beleeve nothing concerning Christ and my Salvation but what the Scripture hath revealed But the Scripture hath revealed no such thing as the Descent of Christs Soule into Hell locally But you will then object unto me Do I not beleeve my Creed and every Article in it I answere I doe Why then say you Doe I not beleeve the Article of Christs Descent into Hell I say I doe being understood or expounded according to the Scripture and the Analogy of Faith therein How is that Christ dyed and in his Passion he suffered the Torments of Hell in his Soule on the Crosse and in the Garden But his Descent into Hell is set after his buriall And doe you not know that the ancient Heathen used to put Hádes for the state of the dead So as katelthein eis hadou is to goe or to abide in the state of the dead which Christ did for 3. dayes and then arose againe and revived So as the Article shewes the continuance of Christs being dead and buried till his Resurrection Againe you know the Nicene Creed mentions onely Christs buriall and no Descent into Hell and Athanasius his Creed katelthen eis hadou He Descended into Hell without speaking a word of his buriall All which doe confirme what I say that christ in being buried remained so long in the State of the dâ—ad his soule seperated from his body and being said to Dâ—scend into Hell hades signifying also the Grave thereby is meant his being buried for so long a time till his rising againe As it is said in the next Article The third day â—e rose againe from the dead that is from the Grave where he abode in the state of the dead Now I have given
an ordinary Grace and this Ordinary Grace hath no force at all unlesse the present Churches Authority prepare the way So as this Ordinarily of yours admits of no exception at all in any case though never so extraordinary And thus you exclude that your Divine Faith as it is a worke of ordinary Grace as you call it from being any Grace of God at all except Grace of Canterbury can dubbe it for a Grace For all Grace is one of those two kinds I named even now either that Grace of God which makes a man freely accepted in Christ which your Ordinary Grace by your own Confession doth not or that common Grace which is said to be freely given of God to whom he will without the intervention or prevention of any outward meanes or respect which your ordinary Graces cannot be for your selfe every where professe that no ordinary Grace nor any thing else can worke beliefe that the Scripture is the word of God unlesse your present Church Authority tanquam Gratia preparans ac praeveniens as a preparing and preventing Grace prepare the way And thus you see to what a Confusion all your Schoole Distinctions are brought And in truth your Schoole Distinctions for the most part being weighed in the just ballance of the Sanctuary prove too light and doe corrupt the truth For even that Distinction which I named of Gratia gratis data Gratia gratum faciens though the termes are good and true yet as some apply the latter to wit Grace making acceptable it is corrupt As when by that Grace they understand Faith Hope and Charity which being infused into the soule aâ—e the matter say they of Iustification and of our acceptation with God Now in this sense this member of the Distinction holds not good but is Popish For Faith onely is that Grace which makes us accepted of God but this not as it is a worke or Grace inherent but as an Instrument apprehending and applying Christ in whom alone we are through Faith accepted of GOD who makeâ— us accepted in the beloved So as he that will find any good and sound Distinction out of the Schoole-men he must doe as Virgil said of his reading of Ennius Margaritas è caeno legere gather pearles out of the mudde and he must look to have them well washed and polished and tryed by the Scriptures before he use them to illustrate or confirme any Doctrine of sound Divinity This by the way L. p. 226. The time was before this A. miserable rent in the Church of Christ which I B think no Christian can look upon but with a bleeding heart that C you and we were all of one beliefe D That beliefe was tainted in Tract and Corruption of time very deeply A division was made yet so as E both parties held the Creed and other Common Principles of beliefe Of these this was one of the greatest That the Scripture is the word of God For our beliefe of all things contained in it depends upon it Since F this Division there hath been nothing done by us to discredit this Principle Nay we have given it G all honour and ascribed unto it more sufficiency even to the containing of all things necessary to Salvation with satis superque enough and more then enough which your selves have not done doe not H And for begetting and setling a beliefe of this Principle we goe the same way with you and a better besides The same way with you because we alow the Tradition of the present Church to be the first inducing motive to imbrace this Principle onely we cannot goe so farre in this way as you to make the present Tradition I alwayes an infallible word of God unwritten P. Here I Have Alphabetically as by A B C. c. noted sundry particulars A That you call the Protestants seperating from the Church of Rome a miserable rent Why miserable when Christ Commands it As Rev. 18.4 as is noted before and shall yet more in a fit place So as the Protestants had been in a miserable condition if this seperation this rent had not been made B 2 dly And must every Christian heart bleed to see it because it seems yours doth Surely this hath cost the heart-blood of many thousands of Gods Saints and Martyrs shed and spilt by that blood drunken whore Yet better so to perish by her temporally here then to perish with her eternally hereafter which must have been had not this miserable rent been made C 3 dly But before this rent say you they and we were all of one beliefe You may speake for your selfe if you had lived before the rent was made We doubt not but both you would have been of the same Faith with Rome and would have continued in it so as for your part there should never have been made such a miserable rent We know well both your Faith and your Charitable and Peaceable disposition for that matter Yea though that one beliefe was tainted That should have broken no square For you say D 4 ly That beliefe that very one beliefe whereof you and they then were before the rent was tainted yea very deeply too But I say still speake for your selfe and your Confederates onely usurpe not the name of all Protestants quorum tu pars minima whereof you were the least part if any at all that seperated from Rome whereof many before they came to be called Protestants which was upon their protesting against the Whore of Babylon and for their just and necessary seperating from her dissented from and disliked and so farre as the iniquity of the times and humane frailty and unavoidable necessity permitted seperated themselves privately at least from many of her most notorious and intolerable en ormites and not a few in their severall ages wherein they lived openly protested against her both by writing and preaching though it cost them their heart-blood for it You have at hand a Catalogue of them in Catalogus Testium veritatis and in the Book of Acts and Monuments and other Authors both forraigne and domesticke and that of fâ—esh bleeding memory E 5 ly You prove your Faith was then one for holâ—ing the Creed and other CoÌ„mon Principles of beliefe of which one of the Greatest c. Indeed before that rent Rome professed and held the letter and externall form of the Creed but not the sense faith life and substance as elsewhere you confesse of the present Church of Rome Did you so then so now I doubt 't will prove so in a great measure For though you tell us that your beliefe of all things contained in the Creed depends upon this principle That Scripture is the word of God For that is the best sense can be made of your words yet there be many even fundamentall Doctrines in Scripture which your beliefe depends not upon nor your practises agree unto as both before is touched and occasion will be given yet more to speake of
Christians Remember to keep the Sabbath day holy What Sabbath day Or what day for Sabbath The Sabbath day of the Lord thy God wherein himselfe rested What day is that The first day of the weeke This is another seventh day reckoning the weeke backward Now on this first day of the week the Lord our God Iesus Christ after that he had finished the worke of Redemption being a new Creation and much more glorious then the former in many respects rose againe from the dead and so entred into his Rest that morning and moment of his Rising again He entred then I say into the state of Rest though not into the place of Rest till his Ascension This is sufficient But the work of Redemption was finished on the Crosse. Not altogether on the Crosse Christ indured and finished his suffering of the pangs and paines of death when he said Consummatum est It is finished but there remained the bonds of death to be indured and that was in the grave 3 dayes to redeem us aswell our bodies from the grave as our soules from hell on the Crosse. Now all this being finished to wit the whole worke of Redemtion Christ rising the 3 d day therein rested from his worke And this being the Sabbath or Rest of the Lord our God surpassing the former Rest in glory and into which rest or sabbatisme all beleeving Christians do enter and have an Interest as Heb. 4.3 it follows necessarily that as by Christs example of Resting on that day as by his Commandement to keep the Sabbath day of the Lord our God wherein himselfe hath rested that we Christians do sanctifie the Lords day the first day of the week for our Christian Sabbath day according to the 4 th Commandement Which if we doe not as not holding our selves bound by the 4 th Commandement Then all these errors in the fundamentalls of faith follow upon it As first by not sanctifying the Lords day for our Christian Sabbath day we utterly deny overthrow and destroy the Morality of the 4 th Commandement which to the Militant Church on earth stands in this To sanctifie the Sabbath day of the Lord our God It commands us this or nothing and if nothing it loseth both the Nature and Name of a Commandement And if you doe acknowledge and beleeve it to be as it is one of Gods ten Morall Commandements then of necessity you must either sanctifie the first day of the week for Sabbath whereon Christ arose and rested or else you must sanctifie that seventh day of the Old Testament which God rested on from his worke of Creation which the Jewes observed And if you keep the Jewes Sabbath you must turn Jew and deny Christ to be come in the flesh For in Deuteronomy God commands them to keep the Sabbath day in memory of their Redemption from Aegipt and so their Sabbath day was turned into a type of another Sabbath or Rest that was to be brought in upon the accomplishment of our spirituall Redemption Which being now finished that typicall Sabbath is vanished being the last Type which was fulfilled by Christ resting in his Grave on that day and so utterly abolished in that more glorious Rest of his Resurrection If then you keep the Jewes Sabbath you do with them deny Christ to be come And if you sanctifie not the first day of the weeke instead of and succeding in place of the old Sabbath day then as you utterly deny and destroy the 4 th Commandement so you deny the worke of Redemption finished on the Crosse and in the Grave you deny his Resurrection wherein he rested from that worke and you deny the very rest of heaven and you deny the Communion of Saints both in the Church Militant and Triumphant First you deny the Accomplishment of the worke of Redemption on the Crosse and in the Redemption it selfe in denying the Rest of Christ in the day of his Resurrection For if he then rested not the worke of Redemption was not finished And you deny he rested in denying his rest to be the rest of the Lord our God which the 4 th Commandement commands us Christians to keepe weekly on that day which if we keep not Christ hath not rested and so he hath not redeemed us Secondly in denying Christs rest you deny his Resurrection For if he rested not he arose not For the very first moment of his Resurrection began his rest If then you sanctifie not the Day of his rest for the Christian Sabbath day you deny as Christs rest so his Resurrection and the whole vertue of it by which we arise from Sinne spiritually and from the Grave corporally And cursed is he that hath not his part in the first Resurrection for on him the second death that is eternall death shall have power because Blessed and holy is he that hath his part in the first Resurrection for on him the second death shall have no power Thirdly in thus denying Christs rest in his Resurrection while you deny that day to be the holy rest or Sabbath day of Christians you deny as Christs eternall rest in heaven so that rest or sabbatisme which remaines for the people of God As the Apostle saith There remaineth therfore Sabbatismòs a sabbatisme or Sabbaticall holy rest for the people of God Therfore Wherupon is this inferred Upon the former verse where he speaks of this very Sabbath or Rest day of Christians which is as the first fruits of the eternall sabbatisme For saith he If Iesus Iosua had given them rest then would he not afterwards have spoken of another day Another day What other day but that rest day which our Iesus rested on and which is our rest day For when Christ in his Resurrection entred into his rest he made that day the day of our rest which gives us an Interest in and brings us to his eternall rest For Certainly if we doe not rest with Christ in the Day of his Rest weekly here according to the Commandement we shall never rest with him eternally in heaven He that keeps not this Other Day which succeeded that under the Law hath no sabbatisme remaining for him in heaven Lastly in denying this Rest-day of Christ to be our Christian Sabbath to be sanctified according to the Commandment you deny the Communion of Saints in the Church Militant and consequently in the Church Triumphant For except there be a Communion of Saints in the Church Militant which is the seed of the Church Triumphant what Communion of Saints can be in heaven For none are Saints there which were not fiâ—st Saints here And what Communion of Saints can be here but especially in the holy and solemne Assemblies where they are to Communicate together in Prayer and Thanks-giving and hearing of the Word and receiving of the Sacrament And how can this be if there be not a set day for it And who shall appoint this day but God himselfe And what Day
whatsoever faith is requisite and necessary to salvation as the beliefe of Scripture to be the word of God as is shewed before And this saving faith is the faith of all them that are heires of salvation to wit of all Gods Elect and all the Saints But it seems with Father Bellarmine you have an Implicit faith for your ignorants and an Explicit for you that are great Clerks or the letter of the Creed for those and the sense for these But I handled this also before Onely you propound a Paradox which is no worke for your pen wherein you are the wiser not to take upon you to read or expound such riddles had you been so wise as not to have propounded â— And yet it is the worke of every good Minister of Chrâ—â—t to teach the people what to beleeve and to exhort them to grow in Grace and knowledge and Faith and so declare unto them the whole Counâ—el of God and to keep nothing backe and to build men up in knowledge more and more unto perfection As the Preacher saith Because the Preacher was wise he still taught the people knowledge yea he gave good heed and sought out and set in Order many Proverbs The Preacher sought to find out acceptable words and that which was written was upright even words of truth The words of the wise are aâ— Goads and Nayles fastened by the Masters of Assemblies which are given from one shepheard But this is not a patterne for you to follow neither by your tongue nor pen. You have other imployment for them But though we cannot set a bound to faith in respect of perfection of degrees yet we ought to teach the people all the parts of saving faith and knowledge striving unto perfection And besides it is the duty of every good Minister of Christ to limit and set bounds to all the negatives of faith in discovering all manner of sins and errours which are all contrary and enemies to faith and salvation For which end they must open all the ten Commandements as Christ did Mat. 5. and all other points of saving Doctrine in the Scriptures Now though you have not the skill or will to set bounds how farre men shall beleeve yet you want no will nor power to inhibit and restraine Preachers shewing them how little a way they must goe in teaching the people and so consequently how little a way the people must goe in beleeving and saving knowledge as in restraining and forbidding to preach the Doctrines of Grace as before forbidding Lectures and especially all Sermonâ— on the Lords day afternoon forbidding long Preaching at any time forbidding expounding of the Catethisme as many of your Prelates doe and the like Thus you can finely set men bounds how little thy shall beleeve or know of God to their salvation That 's a worke if not for your pen or hand yet for your head and not unlikely of your hand and pen too L. p. 327. The Romanists dare not beleeve but as the Roman Church beleeves And the Roman Church at this day doth not beleeve the Scripture and the Creeds in the sense in the which the ancient Primitive Church received them P Dare they not How then say you there is possibility of salvation in the Roman Church for any when it condemneth and accurseth saving faith and justification thereby with other saving truths For if the Papists dare not beleeve but as their Church beleeves then they are bound to good behaviour they dare not beleeve to their salvation And if they dare not beleeve to their salvation then they cannot be saved And if they cannot be saved what possibility of salvation for them living and dying in that faith And here Why do you noâ— say in the sense of the Scriptures themselves and not of the Primitive Church But you doe not like the Scripture sense except the Church interpret it You allow not Scriptures to speake for or testifie for themselves You are the same man still And as we sayd before you doe wisely in that to stoppe the mouth of Scripture as Ahab did Michaiahs for it never speaks good of you but evil alwayes L. p. 232. I will acknowledge every fundamentall point of faith as proveable out of the Canon as we account it as if the Apochryphall were added unto it P. As if Apocryphalls were any divine proofe at all of the fundamentall points of faith in Scripture or ought any way in that respect to be so much as named with the Scripture Apocryphalls saith Ierome may be read for instruction of manners but not for confirmation of faith as before L. p. 336. I have lived and shall God-willing dye in that faith of Christ as it was professed in the ancient Primitive Church and as it is professed in the present Church of England P. As you handle the matter ther 's a vast difference between the faith of Christ professed in the ancient Primitive Church and that which is now professed in the present Church of England For the Ancient Primitive Church taken properly and strictly as somtime in your Booke as before you put it was that wherein the Apostles lived Now will ye be tryed by the Ancient Primitive Church of the Apostles held and professed What say you my Lord for your faith in this case Will you put your faith and Religion to the tryall of the most intire and upright Jâ—ry the Twelve Apostles Certainly if you decline this tryall 't is a shrewd suspicion that the faith of yours wherein you are so resolute to live and dye is not right Therfore for shame of the world you must at least professe or pretend that you wil be tryed by the the Faith and Religion which the Apostles and the true Church of God in their time as being the most Pure Prime Ancient Primitive Church held and professed First then That Primitive Church neither held nor professed nor practised any Hierarchicall government of Prelates or Bishops but have câ—ndemned it in their writings the Scriptures of the New Testament And yet I are say you resolve to live and dye Primate of Canterbury and Metropolitan of all England Secondly The Apostles and the ancient Primitive Church in their Age and time had no Altars but onely the Lord Iesus Christ Heb. 13.10 as it is formerly proved but you and your Church of England both set up and worship Altars and â—each the people both by your Books and practise to do so too and force Ministers to erect Altars or force them out of their Churches And this Faith and Religion also I dare say you resolve to live and dye in Thirdly The Apostles and the anciciâ—nt Primitiâ—e Church in their time celebrated and sanctified every Lords day in holy duties onely and in preaching as well in the afternoon as in the fâ—â—enoon never forbidding but still exhorting to preach in season and out of season giving no liberty to vaine and profane sports and Pastimes either upon
that day or any other day but admonishing Christians to abhore them as Heathenish and is this the faith and practise of the present Church of England at this day wherein you resolve to live and dye Fourthly The Apostles and ancient Primitive Church in their dayes taught held and professed all chose excellent saving Doctrines of Election Predestination Redemption of the Elect their Effectuall vocation and conversation by Gods saving and Omnipotent Grace their assurance of Salvation by Faith and their certaine perseverance in Grace unto Glory and none of these Doctrines were forbid to Ministers to be preached but they were commanded of God to declare the whole Councel of God to his people Is this your faith and practise of the Church of England wherein you resolve to live and dye Fiftly The Apostles and the ancient Primitive Church in their dayes taught professed and practised that Discipline which was according to Christ forbidding all wâ—ll-worship and imposition of humane Ordinances as snares upon mens Consciences whereby that Christian liberty is overthrowne which Christ purchased for his people with his own blood Is this the Faith which you and the present Church of England professeth and practiseth and wherein you resolve to live and dye Sixtly The Apostles and the ancient Primitive Church in their time condemned the forbidding of Marriage and of Meates as a Doctrine of Devils taught by seducing spâ—riâ—s and a departing from the faith of Christ Is this that faith and Religion which you and the present Church of England hold professe and practise and wherein you resolve to live and dye O ye Prelates O thou Church of England blush and be ashamed of that Faith Profession and Practise of yours so 〈◊〉 contrary to that Faith which the holy Apostles taught and that pure and Primitive Church in their times imbraced and professed and be not so desperately bent as being so clearly convinced of these thy foule practises to professe and vow notwithstanding to live and dye in them least herein your condition prove as it must doe infinitly more desperate and damnable then that of the Jesuites themselves whose knowledge by your own confession of their wicked and damnable Fâ—â—ours with their obstinate persisting in them and resâ—sting the truth yea even the Holy Ghosts Testimony therein leaves them as without excuse so without all hope of salvation as to whom nothing remaines as the Apostle upon the like occasion saith but a fearefull expectation of Iudgement and of fiery indignation which shall devour the Adversaries L. p. 338. Yea but he saith againe That I acknowledge there is but one Saving Faith and that the Lady might be saved in the Roman Faith which was all the Iesuite tooke upon his soule Why but iâ— this be all I will confesse it againe The first that there is but one Faith I confesse with St. Paul Eph. 4. And the other That the Lady might be saved in the Roman faith or Church I confesse with that Charity which St. Paul teacheth me namely to leave all men especially the weaker sex and sort which hold the foundation to stand or fall to their own Master Rom. 14.4 And this is no mistaken Charity P. This you confesse that as there is but one saving faith so this faith is in the Church of Rome as in and by which the Lady may be saved And of this one faith with the Church of Rome you and your Church of England are if you hope to be saved with Rome by her saving faith This is the All and summe of your Confession Now we have clearly proved before that the faith of the Church of Rome is not that one saving faith of Gods Saints and Elect which the Scripture every where speaks of For first Romes faith is in its kind and nature and that by their own confession a dead faith but the saving faith is a living faith Secondly they confesse that with their faith they may goe to hell as they say of their Fidâ—les Fornicarii Adulteri c. therfore Romes faith is no saving faith for the saving faith is so called because it effectually perfectly and certainly saveth all those that have it as Christ saith Joh. 5.24 Thirdly The Romish â—aith is a doubting wavering uncertaine faith or raâ—her opinionâ— and wan hope as the Councel of Trent defineth accuâ—sing certainâ—y of beleeving whereas the saving faith is a certainâ— assurance and cleare evidence a plerophoria as Heb 10.22 Rom. 4 21.â— a full assurance or perswasiâ—n in the truth of beleeving though not in fullnesse of degrees of perfection in all and at all times the operation of it being many times hindered by corruptions and infirmities of the flesh and manifold temptations Fourthly Romes faith is and may be without hope and charity but true saving faith is never without hope and charity for it is the sure foundation of things hoped for and it worketh by Love Fifty The Roman faith is not the Iustifying faith for the Councel of Trent saith Faith justifieth not till Hope and Charity come to it and then all 3 together and that as inherent Graces and works in us do justifie whereas true saving faith is therfore called the Iustifying faith because it is that onely Grace whereby as an Instrument applying Christ and his righteousnesse and not as works in us the beleeving sinner is justified Rom. 3.28 so as though this saving justifying faith be never without hope and charity no more then fire is without light and heat yet hope and charity have no hand at all with faith in justification so as not even faith it selfe as it is a Grace inherent with hope and charity doth justifie but onely as it is considered as a hand or instrument applying Christ as before But the Roman Faith as the Councel of Trent confesseth justifieth not as an instrument or hand applying Christ whereby his Righteousnesse is of God imputed to the beleever which Imputation the Councel in plain termes accurseth but onely as a Grace and worke inherent with hope and charity Sixtly saving faith is not onely a justifying faith whereby we stand righteous in Gods sight having Christs Righteousnesse imputed but also a sanctifying faith as Act. 26.18 called therfore a holy Faith Jude 20. as wherby a man is regenerate borne againe made a member of Christ and partaker of his Spirit and lives and dyes in holinesse but the Roman Faith doth not sanctifie for they confesse that wicked ungodly and profane persons may have it and goe to hell with it as before Lastly saving and justifying faith is a spirituall worke and gift of Grace wrought in the soule by the spirit of God and it is his sole worke without the concurrence or mans Will which is not free untill Grace hath given it both life and freedome but the Roman Faith is confessed by them in the Councel of Trent not to be a meere worke of Grace nor at all of sanctifying and saving Grace
in the first act of beleeving but after the Will of man is but a little stirred and moved by a certaine Grace which they call the first Grace which they confesse not to be the saving and sanctifying Grace then thereupon they have the merit of Congruity to receive the second Grace whereby hope and charity come to be added to faith And this is the expresse Doctrine of Trent The Conclusion then is That neither the Lady nor any Papist living and dying in the Roman Faith nor your selfe nor any in the Church of England that hold and professe no other Faith then the Roman Faith can possibly be saved living and dying in that Faith and though you tell us againe with great confidence as a most certaine Truth that it is no mistaken Charity to grant a 〈◊〉 of salvation to a Papist living and dying in the Roman Faith yet we have so discovered this your Charity before as I Hope your Charity wil be no more so mistaken Onely here I must tell you withall that as you either wilfully or most ignorantly and 〈◊〉 rather mistake that one saving faith of the Apostle so doe you also that Charity which you say he teacheth you Doth the Apostle teach you such a Charity as teacheth you to beleeve and affirme that which is contrary to the cleare Truth of the Scripture is it your Charity to attribute a saving faith to the Church of Rome which without all Charity accurseth the onely true faith and the truly faithfull of Iesus Christ which professe that onely saving faith Whereas you must know that Charity which the Apostle there teacheth Rom. 14.4 alledged by you is in judgeing Charitably of your Brethren in the use of things indifferent For there the Apostle speaks of eating or not eating of observing a day or not observing whereupon he inferreth Who art thou that judgest anothers servant To his own Master he standeth or falleth so as in such cases Christians must judge Charitably and not rashly censure others that do not as themselves doe in things simply indifferent This is then the Charity which there the Apostle teacheth But have you learned this Charity of the Apostle You tell us This Charity the Apostle teacheth me The Apostle teacheth you true Charity but it doth not thereupon follow that you have learned that Charity of the Apostle Doe you deale so with your Brethren in the use of things indifferent as not to judge them this way or that way in the using or not using of them Doe you leave them to their own Master Christ to stand or fall Nay do you not cause them necessarily to fall by the stumbling blocks of your Ceremonies which you say are things indifferent and yet you impose such a necessity upon the observation of them as they altogether cease to be indifferent and become a yâ—ake of bondage to the People of God And if they be so strong that they will not thus fall down to your Ceremonies no more then the 3 Children would to the Kings Image what then What Charity use you then towards them Doe you leave them to their own Master to stand or fall Not such thing But you take upon you to be ther Master and Lord and to be their Judge and to Judge them while sitting in your High Commission Chaire you convent them censure them as by Suspâ—nding Silencing Depriving Degrading Dispossessing or Fining Imprisoning undoing of their wives and children and without all hope of remedy or mercy from you till they shall acknowledge the Justice yea and perhaps the Clemencie of your Court in dealling so mercifully with them This This is that Charity which you have learned and which you dayly put in practise so as in this kind never any was more zealously and fervently Charitable then your selfe But this Charity you never learned of the Apostles nor did he or Christ or any of the Apostles ever teach you any such Charity No sure This wisdome This Charity of yours as Iames speakes cometh not from above but is Earthly sensuall and Divelih If you have no other Charity but this the Lord deliver us from your Charity And so I leave you to your mistaken Charity Onely for Conclusion hereof Immediately before you tell us you will dye as you live in that faith professed in the Church of Engdand Here you say Rome holds the same faith Ergo as you live so you will dye in the Roman faith And secondly Ergo The Faith of the Church of England and of Rome is one and the same Faith as before you tell us they are one and the same Church and at after as pag. 3â—7 they are of one and the same Religion not different Thus you have made a fine Confusion and this you meane to make your finall Conclusion Such is your Faith such your Religion such your Charity all mistaken The foulest and fearefullest mistaken that ever any man was overtaken with L. p. 339. The truth is you doe hold new Devises of your own which the Primitive Church was never acquainted with And some of those so farre from being conformable as that they are little lesse then contradictory to Scripture P. And is it not as true that in holding new devises which the the Primitive Church of which we spake but now was never acquainted with you may shake hands with Rome and her Jesuites who may therfore retort upon you that of the Poet Parcius ista viris tamen objicienda memento Novimus et qui te Be sparing such things to us to object Who know the like do on your selfe reflect And we have shewed before how both Romes new devises and yours for they are all one and the same are not onely as you still mince the matter little lesse then contradictory to Scripture but doe directly overthrow the cleare and evident truth 〈…〉 and that also even in fundamentalls And what say you to Romes new-old devise of worshiping Images to instance in no more though I might in many yea in all Romes Popish Doctrines as Popish as before is it but little lesse then contradictory to Scripture Doth not the Scripture say Thou shalt not worship any graven Image And what saith Rome I pray you Or if you or she for modesty sake will not tell us or if she dare not say in plain and expresse termes and in form of a Precept Thou shalt worship Images yet aske her whorish practises and her pretty devises wherewith she allures her children to the adoration of them and that even to dotage as by promising them preâ—ty lakons and new-nothings as pardon of sins for so many yeares for praying so many Avies and Pater nosters before such a 〈◊〉 or Image is not this Equipollent to a Commandement yea their very setting up and adâ—ring these their gaâ— Gods in their Churches the place of worship is it not an inviting and silent whispering in the Peoples eares worship and fall down before these sacred Images and Reliques giving them
the same honour that you give to the Saints which they represent as divine honour to the Crosse and Crucifix as they teach as we have shewed Is not here a full and home contradiction to the Scripture For Contradiction is not onely in an expresse Negative but in an impiâ—â—â— Negation when such and such a Doctrine doth necessarily imply a contradiction to the Scripture And in this kind all the Doctrines of Popery whereof we have given sundry Instances before are direct contradictions to the truth of the Scriptures L. p. 340. It doth not follow since the Councel of Trent hath added a new Creed that this Roman faith is now the Catholick For it hath added extravea things without the foundation disputable if not false Conclusions to the Faith So that now a man may beleeve the whole and intire Catholicke faith even as St. Athanasiâ—â— requires and yet justy refuse for Drâ—sse a great part of that which is now the Roman faith P. Is it so then Hath the Councel of Trent added a new Creed and so Roman faith is not now the Catholicke but to be refused as drosse extraveous false without the foundation How then doth this agree with that faith which even now you confessed that the Church of Rome had and hath the saving Faith that One Faith of the Apostles as whereby a Papist living and dying in that Faith may be saved And if Rome hath added a new Creed how holds she still that one Faith And do not you beleeve Romes new Creed For what is this Creed That the Roman faith is now the Catholicke How is this then a new Creed That Romes faith is now the Catholicke For say you it hath added extravious things without the foundation Disputable if not false conclusions to the Faith Is this all Parâ—urient Mâ—ntes I expected here some monstrous evidence against the Church of Rome when you began to tell us she had brought forth a new Creed But this your Rumor will not be taken for a Creed without some sounder proofe then we see you yet bring for all your faire florish For what 's this new Creed Alas a poore Cento patcht up of certaine extravious things What without the Foundation Good enough yet so long as nâ— Canon against the Foundation or a mine of Powder to blow up the foundation Onely without the foundation Alas that 's not worth the talking of If the new Creed be of things onely without the foundation you may leave them out of your Creed as things not necessary to be beleeved or at least not to be beleeved of all Christians alike as you teach us before and Bellarmine too that All things de fide are not necessary to be beleeved of all men or are not necessary to salvation And perhaps Bellarmine means Romes new Creed you speak of which though the Councel of Trent hath made it to be de fide yet it is not necessary for every man to beleeve it or not absolutely necessary for every mans salvation But what more 2. Disputable As you sayd before Disputed Quâ—stions Disputed and Disputable still Ergo what can you make oâ— such a Creed at the worst but some disputable matter not yet sufficiently discussed though determined in the Councel of Trent and sit perhaps to be reserved to be determined upon some clearer demonstrations in your next Generall Councel whose Decrees then true or false shall be received as your Creed And as we said before things Disputable may yet prove to be truth being throughly scanned and thus Romes neâ—â— Creed may prove as Credible as you call it disputable But any more yet yes if not false conclusions If Which receiving a faire interpretation from your mouth may be all one as if you had said Nâ—t false Conclusions because as yet Disputable And while things are but disputable and in dispute they are as yet no false Conclusions For the Premisses of the Argument must goe before the Conclusion But yet your Conclusion is somwhat 〈◊〉 For you say A man may beleeve the whole and intire Catholick faith and yet justly refuse for drosse a great part of that which is now the Roman faith What Drosse And Iusâ—ly refuâ—e as Drosse What are you that man that may doe thus And will you doe thus Nay you for your part have bound your hands from taking any thing as drosse which Rome hath put in her new Creed For those things even the worst of them you say are disputable Therfore not yet concluded and determined for Drosse And if you shall now take those things for drosse which with you are but disputable how can you justly doe it For if mettall be in dispute among the râ—siners it is not presently doomed for drosse being yet in their best judgements but disputable the Test must first try it whether it be drosse or not And so it is the Test or the Testaments of Christ that must try all false mettals shine they never so gold like and discover and condemne them for Drosse And surely my Lord your single judgement through never so singular will never be taken by any as solid enough to preponderate the Decrees of a whole Councel as Trent to conclude those Decrees to be Drosse both after you have called them but disputable and after Rome hath Decreed them for her new Creed But you goe no further yet then Posse a man may take them c. And you may in time come actually to take those disputables for no Drosse but good Currant Coine not onely passing for Currant in Rome but also in England as holding the same Creed and being one Church So as a little more Allay then Ordininary shall not disable the currantnesse of it And what is there in all Romes new Creed of Trent which you say is of things Disputable which is any worse drosse but rather as good silver as those her Altars and oâ—her superstitions which you have borrowed of her Which were they but soundly disputed would prove drosse indeed as formerly also is proved Againe here you confine the whole and intire Catholicke faith to Athanasius his Creed You might have at least taken in the other two Creeds to boot and yet not all of them together will make up the adequate Rule of the whole and intire Catholicke faith For the Catholicke faiths full latitude whole and intire cannot be measured but by the line and Rule of Scriâ—ture alone The onely túpos didâ—kus as the Apostle caâ—ls 〈◊〉 the Matrix or Mold wherein faith must be cast 〈◊〉 to receive its perfect forme which is not cannâ—â— be whole and intire but as it is according to the whole and 〈◊〉 Scripture conformed And you adde L. p. 3â—2 No man can properly be said to beleeve the whole Creed that beleeves not the whole sense as well as the letter of it and as intirely P. Now you told us before that Rome hath lost the sense of the Creed at least in some things