but only cast downe some encroachments and improvements of poperie wee have no more erâ—cted a new faith in respect of the substance and essentials thereof than that zealous reformer Iosia built a new materiall Temple when hee cast out the Idols and Idolatrous worship out of the Lords house There is no other difference betwixt the Reformed and the Romish Church then betwixt a field well weeded and the same field formeâ—ly overgrowne with weeds or betwixt a heape of corne now well winnowed and the same heape lately mixed with chaffe And if it be a vaine and frivolous thing to say it is not the same field or the same corne as vaine and frivolous is it to say the Church is not the same it was or in the same place after it is swept and cleansed of the filth and dust or to say the Churches of Corinth and Galatia after their reformation occasioned by Saint Pauls writing were new Churches and not the same they were before because that in them before the Resurrection was denied Circumcision practisâ—d discipline neglected and Châ—isâ—s Apostles contemned which things now are not found in them or to say Naaman was not still the same person because before hee was a Leper and now is cleansed PA. If our Romane Church were so corrupt whence then had you the truth what you had you received from us PRO. Saint Austine saith that the Iewes were to the Christians Library-keepers of the bookes of the Law and the Prophets and might not the Romanists performe the like office to the Protestants The Iewish Church what time it was unsound preserved the Scriptureâ—Canon and by transcribingâ— and reading the same delivered the whole text therof trâ—ly to others And thus the Roman Church though in many things unsound preserved the bookes of holy Scripture and taught the Apostles Câ—eed with sundry parts of divine truth gathered from the same and by these principles of Christianitie preserved in that Church judicious and godly men might with study and diligence finde out what was the first delivered Christian doctâ—ine in such things as were necessary to salvation And herein was Gods gracious providence sâ—ene that even that Church wherein Luther himselfe received his Christianitie Ordination and power of Ministerie should for the benefit of Gods children preserve the Word and Sacraments and deliver them over to us though somewhat corruptly by their adding more Sacraments than ever Christ ordained and abusing those which we retaine with divers unwarrantable rites and Ceremonies In a word we received from you some truth mingled with errour wee have pared away your corruption as a worme out of an Apple and retained the wholsome and substantiall truth PA. Was there any Chucrh in being save our Roman Catholick in thâ— Ages next before Luther if so show uâ— where it was and with whom it held Communion PRO. When Christ came first into the World the Iewish Church was corrupted both in doctrine and manners this Church had in it Scribes and Pharisees as well as Zachary and Elizabeth Ioseph and Mary Simeon and Anna with others these were all of the same outward Communion with the Priesthood for they resorted to the Temple there they prayed and performed such holy rites as God himselfe enjoyned untill they heard farther of the Gospel by Christs manifestation Now I demand were not Ioseph and Mary and such good people â—ound members of Gods Church although the Scribes and Pharisees bore all the sway in the Church and had the Priesthood the word and Sacraments in their dispensing yet even then God had a Remnant of holy people which made up his Church though others went under the name thereof and exceeded them in number Now with these the sound part kept an outward Communion yet did not partake in all their erronious doctrines but condemned their grosser errours In like sort we were all of one outward Communion of one Church wherin salvation was and yet we shared not in those errours which a faction in the Church like the Pharisees of old maintained For as learned Dr. Field saith The errours which wee condemne at this day whereupon the difference groweth betweene us and the Romish faction were never generally received nor constantly delivered as the doctrines of the Church but doubtfully disputed and proposed as the opinions of some men in the Church not as the resolved determinations of the whole Church For had they beene the undoubted doctrines and determinations of the Church all men would have holden them entirely and constantly as they held the doctriâ—e of the Trinity and other Articles of the Faith And I have already showne from age to age that the errours condemned by us never found generall allowance and constant consent in the dayes of our fathers but that some worthy guides of Gods Church ever opposed them And thus was our Church preserved under the Papacie as wheaâ—e is among tares for wee were formerly mingled together like corne and chaffe in one heape until the time of Reformation came and winnowed our wheat from the chaffe of Poperie So that howsoever divers under the Papacie not brooknig Reformation maintained sundry erronious opinions Yet there were other worthies who living within that Communitie were not equally poysoned with errour but firmely beleeved all fundamentall truth and delivered the maine Articles of Christianitie over unto others For Answer then to the Question Where had our Church her being in the Ages next before Luther we say It was both within the Romane Church and without it For as learned Doctor Chaloner saith Our Church had in those dayes a twofold Subsisâ—encie â—he one Separate from the Church of Rome the other Mixt and conjoyneâ— with it Separate so it was in the Albâ—genses and Waldenses a peâ—ple whoâ— so soone as the Chuâ—ch of Rome had inteâ—preted her selfe touching sundry of those maine poynts of dâ—ffâ—rence betweene us and that a man could no lâ—nger Communicate with her in the publicke worship of God by reâ—son of soâ—e Idolatrous rites and customes which shâ— had establishâ—dâ— arose in France Savâ—y and the places neere adjoyning and professed the same substantiall Negatives and Affirmatives which we doe in a state Sepaâ—atâ— from the Church of Rome having Pastours and Congregations apart to themselves even unto this day From these descended the Wicklefisâ—s in England and the Hussites in Germanie and oâ—hers in other Countries who Maâ—gre the â—urie of fire and Sword maintained the same doctrine as they did The state of the Church mixt and conjoyned with the Church of Rome it selfe consisted of those who making no visible separation from the Roman profession as not perceiving the mysterie of iniquity which wrought in it did yet mislike the grosser errours and desired a Reformation To answer then the quâ—stion directly where was the Prâ—testants Church before Luthers time that is where was any Church in the world that taught that doctrine which the Protestants now teach â—
when as those Kings caused the Temple to be shut up the Sacrifice to cease and erected Idols in every Towne Besides at our Saviours comming we find but a short Catalogue of true professors mentioned to wit Ioseph and Mary Zacharie and Elizabeth Simeon and Anna the Shepherds in the fields and some others When Christ suffered death his little flocke as hee called it was scattered his disciple â—led and none almost durst shew themselves save Mary and Iohn and some few women with oâ—hers After our Saviours death the Apostles and their followers were glad to meet in Chambers whiles the Priests Scribes and Pharisees bare all the sway in the Temple â—o that as the Treatise of the true Câ—urchâ—s visibilitie haâ—h it if a weâ—ke body had then enquired for the Church it is likely they had beene directed to them In â—he time of those Ten persecutions there could not be any knowne assembly of Christians but foorthwith â—he Tyranâ—s labouâ—ed to root them out but as Tâ—rtullian saith The blood of the Martyrs was the seed of the Church they were peâ—secuted and yet they increased Afâ—erwards when the Arrian Heresie overspread all so that all the world was against Athanasius and he and some few Confesâ—ors stood for the Nicen Faith insomuch as Hierome said The world sighed and groaned marveiling at it selfe how it was become Arrian what a slender appearance did the true professors then make and yet in such dangerous and revolting times even small assemblies of particular congregations wheresoever dispersed serve to make up the universal Church Militant so that the Reader is not to be discouraged if hee find not the Protestant Assemblies so thronged since it was not so with the primative Church and S. Iohn foretold That the woman that is the Church persecuted by the Dragon that old Serpent the Devill and his instruments should flie into the Wildernesse where the Lord promised to hide her till the tempest of persecution were over-blowne wherein God dealt graciously with his Church for had her enemies alwayes seene and knowne her professors they would like cruell beastes have laboured to devoure the damme with her young the mother with her children Now whereas the Papists brag of their Churches Visibilitie their owne Rhemists are driven to confesse that in the raigne of Antichrist the outward state of the Romane Chuâ—ch and the publike entercourse of the faithfull with the same may cease and practise their Religion in secret And Iesuite Suarez thinkes it probable That the Pope shall professe his faith in secret Where is then your Tabernacle in the Sunne your light in the Candlesticke when as your Church and Pope shall walke with a darke Lanterne and say Masse in a corner PA. Why was not the Church alwayes so conspicuous PRO. Because sometimes her best members as Athanasius Hilarie Ambrose and others were persecuted as Heretikes and ungodly men and that by learned persons and such as were powerfull in the world able to draw great troupes after them of such as for hope favour feare or the like respects were ready to follow them In this and the like case when false Priestes broach errours and deceive many Tyrants persecute Gods Saints and cause others to retire then I say when the faithfull want their ordinarie entercourse one with another the number of the Church malignant maybe great in comparison of those that belong to the true Church PA. If the Church were not alwayes so conspicuous in what sort then was it visible a visible Church you grant PRO. In the generall militant Church there have in all ages been some Pastors and people more or lesse that have outwardly taught the truth of Religion in substance though not free from errour in all poynts and these have beene visible by their ordinary standing in some part of Gods Church Besides for the more part there have bin also some that withstood and condemned the grosse errours and superstition of their times and these good men whiles they were suffered taught the truth openly but being persecuted by such as went under the Churches name even then also they taught and administred the Sacraments in private to such faithfull ones as would joyne with them and even in those harder times they manifested their Religion by their Writings Letters Confessions at their Iudgement Martyrdome or otherwise as they could Now as learned Doctor White in his Defence of his Brothers booke hath observed whensoever there bee any Pastors in the world which â—ither in an open view or in the presence of any part thereof doe exercise though in private the actions of true Religion by sound teaching the truth and right administration of the Sacraments this is sufficient to make the Church visible by such a manner of visibilitie as may serve for the gathering and preserving of Gods elect Now such visible Pastors and people the Protestant Church was never utterly destitute of PA. You seeme to make the Church both visible and invisible PRO. May not one bee within and seene with his friends and yet hidden to his enemies visible to the seeing and invisible to the blind Indeed Tyrants Infidells and Heretikes they knew the true beleevers as men of another profession but blinded with malice and unbeliefe they acknowledged them not for true professors as M. Bradford told D. Day Bishop of Chichester the fault why the Church is not seene of you is not because the Church is not visible but because your eyes are not cleare enough to see it and indeed such as put not on the spectacles of the Word to finde out the Church but seeke for her in outward pompe are much mistaken Aelian in his History tels us of one Nicostratus who being a well-skilled Artisan and finding a curious piece of worke drawne by Xeuxis that famous Painter one who stood by wondered at him and asked him what pleasure hee could take to stand as hee did still gazing on the picture to whom hee answered Hadst thou mine eyes my friend thou wouldest not wonder nor aske me that question but rather be ravished as I am at the inimitable art of this rare and admired piece In like manner if our Adversaries had their eyes annoynted with the eye-salve of the holy Spirit they might easily discover the Protestant Church and her visible congregations The Aramites 2 Kings 6. chap. could not discerne the citie of Samaria whither the Prophet led them untill their eyes were opened no more can one discerne or difference the true Church from the malignant and conventicles of the wicked untill his mind bee enlightned And thus Saint Austin told the Donatists They could not see the Church on the hill because their eyes were blinded to wit either with ignorance or malice Saint Austin compares the Church to the Moone which waxeth and waneth is eclipsed and sometime as in the change cannot be seene yet none doubts but still there is a
at Aâ—twerpe Anno 1576. at Paris Anno 1586. at Coleine Ann. 1616. but no such place was there to be found the Divines of Lovaine had taken a course with them and suppressed these testimonies but by good hap I met with them in the Basil Edition Anno 1569. Object Those whom you have named in your Catalogue were originally Catholikes and not Protestants Wickliâ—fe and Husse were Catholike Priests and Luther was an Augustine Frier you cannot name such as were Protestants originally they came forth of our Church Answer Whence I pray you sprang Christs Apostles were they not taken out of the Iewish Church at that time much corrupted S. Paul speaking of himselfe and the service of his God saith Whom I doe serve from my progenitors meaning Abraham Isaac and Iacob the first Fathers of the faithfull for as for S. Pauls immediate predecessors it is likely that they relished of the leven of the Pharisees It can be no more prejudice to our Church that Luther Wickliffe aâ—d Husse were originally Papists than to S. Paul that he was originally a Pharisee or to S. Austine that he was orinally a Manichee or to our Ancestors at the first conversion of our land that they were originally heathen or to all true Converts that they were originally unregenerate For as Tertullian saith Fiunt non nascuntur Christiani We are not borne Christians but we become Christians Neither is it true that wee can name none of our Church that were not originally Papists For Farellus and the Waldensian Ministers for more than 400. yeares were not originally Papists though Waldo himselfe was Besides the Fathers for 600 yeares and the Monkes in Britaine at Augustines comming were not originally Papists In the Greeke Church from 700. to 700 afterwards many thousands held as wee doe in all fundamentals who never were originally Papists nor millions of others in the Easterne Churches and namely in the Greeke Church there have bene from 700. to 700. afterwards many thousands which held as we doe in all fundamentals and never were originally Papists Lastly the like argument might be urged against all that embraced Reformation in Iosias dayes that they originally were involved in the common errors and Idolatry of the Iewish Church Likewise that Zachary and Elizabeth and Simeon and Anna and the Apostles were originally deduced from that Church which held many errors concerning the temporall kingdome of the Messias and divorces for other causes than adultery c. Which errors Christ and his Apostles reproved In England and most parts of the world the first Christians were originally Paynims and Idolaters what prejudice is that to Christianity or advantage to Heathenisme Object Your Churches professors mentioned in your Catalogue wanted lawfull succession Answer There is a two-fold succession the one lineall and locall the other doctrinall this of doctrine is the life and soule of the other Irenaeus describeth those which have true succession from the Apostles To bee such as with the succession of the Episcopall office have received the câ—rtâ—ine grace of tâ—uth and this kind of succession hee calleâ—h the principâ—ll succession Gregory Nazianzen having said that Atâ—anasius succeeded Saint Marke in godlinesse addeth That this succession in godlinesse is properly to be accounted succâ—ssion for he that holdeth the same doctrine is also pâ—rtaker of the same throne but he that is against the doctrine must be reputed an adversary even while hâ—e sitteth in the throâ—e but the former hath the thing it selfe and the truth so that according to Irenaeus and Nazianzâ—n succession in doctrinâ— suâ—ficeth yea Nazianzen as we have heard makes it all one 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 so that he which holds the same truth of doctrinâ— may bee said to sit in the same Chaire of succession Besides wee are able to shew succession also in place for â—ive hundred yeares in most parts of Christendome and since that in the Greeke Church untill this day and in the Latine Church from the time of Waldo in France Bohemia and other places And for the Church of England the lineall succession of her Bishops is showne particularly by Mr. Francis Mason de ministerio Anglicano Mr. Goodwin in his Catalogue of the Bishops of England and Mr. Isaacson in his Chronologicall Table of the succession of the Bishops of England PA. Name in the space of a thousand yeares next before Luther three knowne and confessed Protestant Bishops succeeding each to other and if you had such expresse their agreement with you in the maine points controverted betweene us PRO. This demand was eagerly pressed upon me by a Romish Priest but the Stone which he hurled at mee not comming forth of Davids sling recoiles upon himselfe like the stone that Achilles flung at a dead skull which â—ebounded backe and strucke out the slingers eyeâ— Redijt lapis ultor ab osse Actorisque suifrontem oculâ—squè petit For I would in like manner demand of him to name three knowne and confessed Popish Bishops succeeding each other who maintained the worship of Images before the second Councell of Nice or that beleeved Transubstantiation before the Roman Councell under Pope Nicholasâ— or that avowed the dry and halfe Communion before the Councell at Constance under Martin the fift or that held the effect of the Sacraments to depend upon the Priests intention before the Councell at Florence or defined the Pope to be above a Generall Councell before the Councell of Lateran under Leo the tenth or that determined the twelve new Articles of Pius the fourth his Creed to be all de Fide and necessary to salvation before the Councell of Trent Besides there is no necessitie of naming three Bishops succeeding each other and opposing Poperie It sufficeth to name such as opposed it tho they sate not successively in the same Chaire for all Romish errors and superstitions rushed not in at once into the Church but by degrees now such as held the fundamentals with us and opposed any one error or more when they were first espied to creepe into the Church they were Protestants though they went not then under that name Now according to this account of Protestants wee can produce many more than three Bishops succeeding each other who in their times made head against Romish usurpations and superstitions for instance sake S. Austine and with him two hundred and seventeene Bishops of Africa and their successors for a hundred yeares together if their owne Records be true opposed the Popes supremacie in point of Appeales To speake nothing of the innumerable Bishops in the Easterne Churches and the Habassines and Muscovites and elsewhere succeeding each the other for many hundred yeares differing in no fundamentall point from Protestants and keeping no quarter at all with the Pope or See of Rome when Austine the Monke was sent into England by Gregory the Great the most ancient British and Irish Bishops withstood the Popes authority and ordinances stifly adhering to the Churches
Timothie was it holds in others also for if the Scripture be so profitable for such and such uâ—eâ— that thereby it perfects a Divine much more an ordinary Christian that which can peâ—fit the teacher is sufficient for the learner PA. Doe you disclaime all Traditions PRO. We acknowledge Traditions concerning Discipline and the Rites and Ceremonies of the Church but not concerning the doctrine or matter of faith Religion You equalize unwritten traditions to holy Scripture receiving them saith your Trent Councell with equall reverence and religious affection as you receive the holy Scriptures themselves we daâ—e not doe so but such traditions as we râ—ceive we hold and esteeme farre inferiour Concerning the Scriptuâ—e Canon the Trent Councell accurseth such as receive not the Bookes of Machabees Ecclesiasticus â—oby Iudith Baruch Wisdome for Canonical Scriptuâ—e Now wee retaine the same Canon which Christ and his Apostles held and received from the Iewes unto whom were committed the Oracles of God being as Saint Augustine speakes The Christians Library-keepers Now the Iewes never received these Bookes which wee terme Apocryphall into their Canon yea Christ himselfe divided the Canon into three severall rankes iâ—to the Law the Prophets and the Psalmes now the Apocryphal come not within this reckoning Indeed as S. Hierome saith The Church reades these Bookes for example of life and instruction of manners but yet it doth not apply them to stablish any Doctrine Of Comunion under both kindes and the number of Sacraments If any shall say The Church was not induced for just causes to communâ—caâ—e the â—ay people under one kinde vâ—z of bread onely and shall say they â—rred in so doing let him bee accursed saith the Trent Councell Now our Chuâ—ch holds That both the parts of the Lords Sacrament ought to bâ—e ministred to all Gods people so thaâ— according to us In the publâ—kâ— celebraâ—ion of â—he Eâ—chaâ—ist Communion in boâ—h kinds ouâ—ht to bee given to all sorts of Câ—riâ—â—ians righâ—ly disposed and prepared and this oâ—â— Tenet is agâ—eâ—able to Christes Institution and Precept who saith exprâ—sly and liâ—erally Drink yee all of this It agrees aâ—so with Saint Pauls precept and with the practice of the holy Apostleâ— and the priâ—ative Church Dionysius Arcopagita who as you say was Saint Pauls Scholler and Disciple relates the practice of the Church in his time on this manner After the Priest hath prayed that hee may hoâ—â—ly distribute and that all they that are to partake of the Sacrament may receiue it worthyly he breakes the Bread into many pieces and divides one Cup among all Ignatius who was Scholler to Saint Iohn the Evangelist saith That one Bread is broken unto all and one Cup destributed unto all PA. Bellarmine saith the words of Ignatius are not as you alleage them There is one Cup distributed unto all but there is one Cup of the whole Church and though the Greeke Copies reade as you doe yet he saith That much credit is not to be given to them PROT. Shall we give more credit to a Translâ—tion then to the Originall If the Well-head and Spring bee corâ—upted how shall the Brooke or Streame runne cleare It may be indeed that divers errors are crept both into the Greeke Latine Copies but for the place alleagâ—d there is no colour of corruption in asmuch as the same that Ignatius spake of the Bread the same are repeated of the Cup according to Christs Institution and howsoever Bellarmine may produce some Latine Copie that translateth the words of Ignatius as Bellarmine sets them downe Vnus Calix totius Ecclesiae yet as D. Featly observes in the Grand Sacriledge of the Romish Church Vitlemius and divers other Latin Copies following the originall verbatim render them thus Vnus Calix omnibus distributus that is One Cup distributed unto all and not as Bellarmine and Baronius ad Ann. 109 sect 25. would have it as if Ignatius had said that one Cup was distributed not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 omnibus but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 pro omnibus not to all but for all that is for the behoofe and benefit of all Howsoever they wrest it Ignatius tels us of one Cup and this not the Priests Cup but the Churches Cup and this Cup was distributed But now adaies in the Masse there is no distribution of the Cup. PA. Christ spake these words Drinke yee all of this only to the Apostles as they were Priests and not to the Laitie PRO. By this meanes you might take away the Bread as well as the Cup from the Lay-people for when Christ administred the Sacrament none were present for ought we know but onely the Apostles Besides the Apostles were not yet fully ordained Priests though they had beene once sent to Preach Christ after his Resurrection breathed on them the holy Ghost and fully endued them with Priestly power Iohn 20.22 Againe the Apostles at this Supper were Communicants not Ministers of the Sacrament Christ was then the onely Minister in that Action Now Christ delivered them the Cup as well as the Bread saying to the same persons at the same time and in the same respect Drinke yee all of this to whom hee had said before Take and Eate giving both alike in charge so that you must either barre the people from both or admit them to both now if neither precept of eating or drinking belong to the Laitie the Laitie are not at all bound to receive the Sacrament PA. Although it be said of Drinking the Cup Doe this in remembrance of me Yet the Words Doe this are spoken Absolutely of the Bread and but Conditionally of the Cup namely as often as yee shall drinke it 1 Cor. 11.25 So that these Words Doe this in remembrance of me inferre not any Commandement of receiving in both kindes PRO. According to your Tenet our Saviour saith not Doe this as often as you Lay men communicate but whensoever you receive the Cup and drinke then doe it in remembrance of me as much as to say as often as you Lay people drinke which needeth never be done by you according to Romish Divinitie Doe this nothing in remembrance of mee Besides as there is a Quotiescunque as often set before the Cup As oft as you drinke so there is a Quotiescunque set before the Bread As often as you shall eate this Bread vers 26. so that quotiâ—scunque biberitis as often as you Drinke cannot make the Precept Conditionall in respect of the Cup more than of the Bread it being alike referred to the Bread and to the Cup. PA. We wrong not the Laitie ministring unto them under one kinde onely they receiving the same benefit by one that they should doe by both Christs body and bloud being whole in each so that the people receive the bloud together with the Host by a Concomitancy PRO. In vaine have you devised Concomitance to
for us Now though Christs Body is not according to his materiall substance wholly and intirely under the outward elements yet the Bread may bee truly termed Christs Body because of a Relative and Sacramentall union and donation of the thing signified together with the Signes worthily received PA. What reason have you to interpret these words figuratively this is my body that is this bread is a signe of my body and not plainely and literally as they sound PRO. Figurative speeches are oftentimes plaine speeches now there be no other Figures or Tropes in the Lords Supper but such as are and alwaies were usuall in Sacraments and familiarly knowne to the Church Now Sacraments must bee expounded Sacramentally and accordingly the words alledged must not bee taken literally but figuratively Christ taking bread and breaking bread said of the same This is my body now this cannot bee properly taken therefore for the right expounding of these words we are necessarily to have recourse to a figurative interpretation and the reason hereof is that common Maxime Disparatum de disparato non propriè praedicatur that is nothing can bee properly and literally affirmed joyntly of another thing which is of a different nature By this rule bread and Christs body cannot bee properly affirmed one of another bread being of a different nature from flesh can no more possibly be called the flâ—sh or body of Christ literally than lead can be called wood and this makes us interpret the words figuratively and wee have in Scripture most manifest places which proove these woâ—ds This is my body to be figuratively taken and understood because in Scripture whensoever the signe as the Bread being called Christ's body hath the name appellation of the thing signified the speech is alwayes tropicall and figurative And this agreâ—th with S. Austiâ—s Rule Sacraments bee signes which often doe take the names of those things which they doe signifie and represent therefore doe they carry the names of the things themselves thus is the signe of the Passeover the Lambe called the Passeover Math. 26.17 Exod. 12.11 27. the Rocke the signe of Christ in his passion is called Christ and the Rocke was Christ 1. Cor. 10 4. Circmmcision the signe of the Covenant called the Covenant and Bapâ—isme the signe of Christs buriall called Christs buriall for so saith S. Augustine that as Baptisme is called Christs buriall so is the Sacrament of the Body of Christ callâ—d his Body Now this shew or semblance of words concludes not that Christ or the Lambe were really the Rocke the Passeover but that these things are meant figuratively it being usuall in Scripture specially in such Sacramentally speeches as this is we are now about to give the name of the thing to that which it betokeneth and so to call Circumcision the Covenant because it is a signe thâ—t betokneth the Covenant and so of the rest Besides the other part of the Sâ—crament to wit This Cup is the New Testament in my blood Luke 22.20 is figurativâ— and not to be literally taken for you your selves sâ—y that Calix or the Cup is there taken for that which is iâ— the cup so that your sâ—lves admit a trope in the institution of this Sacrament PAP If these figurative speâ—ches were true yet I cannot see what argument you can draw from hence or how you can hence prove any thing against our Tenet saith our â—nglish Baron for it is a rule in Divinitie that Theologia Symbolica non est aâ—gumentativa that figurative speeches affoord no certaine proofe in matters of Faith PRO. The zeâ—lous Reverend and learned L. Bishop of Durâ—sme Doctor Morton tells your Baron and his Suggester that upon the no-pâ—oper sense of the words This is my body it must follow that there is no Transubstantiation in your Romish Masse no Corporall presence no râ—all Sacrifice no proper eating no lawfull divine adoration therof and as for the rule that Symbolicall arguments mâ—ke no necessary Conclusions the said learned and reveâ—end Father saith That this makes not against us touching the fiâ—urative woâ—ds of Christ This is my body the position maketh onely against them who extract either a liteâ—all sense out of a parabolicall and figurative speech as Origen did when having râ—ad that scriptureâ— Thâ—re bee some that castrate thâ—msâ—lves for the kingdome of God whâ—ch was but a pâ—rabolicall speech hee did really and thereforâ— fâ—â—lishly castrate himselfe or else when men tâ—râ—e the words of Scripture properly and literally spoken intâ—â— figurative meaningâ— as when Pope Innoâ—ent thâ— third tâ— pâ—oove that his Papall authoritie was above thâ— Impâ—riall aâ—lâ—dged that Scripture Gen. 1. God made two great lights the Sun and the Moone as if the Imperiall like the Moone had borrowed its authoritie from the Papall as from the Sun or as Pope Boniface 8 from those words Luk. 22. Behold here are two swords argued that both the temporall and spirituall sword are in the Pope as he is Vicar of Christ. Now such kinde of Symbolicall reasoning is indeed of no force â—ut by that position was it never forbid whensoever in Scripture the name of the thing signified is attributed to the symbol or signe that then the Symbolicall and Sacramental speech should be judged tropicall But this kind of exposition was alwayes approved of Christ and by his Church so here Christ taking bread and breaking bread which was the symbol and signe of Christs body and saying of the same Bread This is my body the sense cannot possibly bee literall but alâ—ogether figuâ—ative as hath bin shewne by divers â—xamples in Scripture to wit the signe of the passing over called the Passeover the Rock but a signe of Christ called Christ In each onâ— of these the Symbols being a Signe and Figuâ—e the speech must infallibly bee Figurative And therefore Bread being a Figure of Christs Body is called Christs body Figuratively And thus farre our learned Bishop of Duresme Of Images and Prayer to Saints The Church of Rome holds that Images are to bee had and retained and that due honour worship and veneration is to bee given to them The Church of England holds that the Romish doctrine of Adoration of Images and Reliques and also of Invocation of Saints is grounded upon no warraâ—tie of Scripture but rather repâ—gnant to the word of God And so indeed we finde that the Lord in his Morall law hath condemned in gâ—nerall all Imaâ—eâ— and Idols devised by man for worshâ—p and adoration And this Precept being a part of his Morall law it binds us in the state of the new Testament as it did the Israelites of old for in all the Apostles doctrine wee doe not finde that ever this prâ—câ—pt was abâ—ogated so that it bindes Israelites Christians and all PA. If all worship of Images be forbidden Exod. 20. ver 4 5. then all making of them is forbidden for the same precept which saith thou shalt not bow downe
say the word of Christ is most efficacious to alter the propertie of naturall water and to give regenerating force and vertue to it Saint Ambrose saith that in Baptisme man is changed and made a new creature Learne saith he how the word of Christ is accustomed to change every creature and when he will he altereth the course of nature Saint Cyril saith the waters are changed into a divine nature And Gregorie Nazianzene saith that by Baptisme we put on Christ by Baptisme we are changed or transmuted into Christ. Now from hence we cannot infeâ—re that eiâ—her the water of Baptisme or regenerate persons are changed by Transubstantiation the change is not corporall in either of the Sacraments but mysticall in use and signification In the Church saith Macarius Scholler to Saint Anthonie bread and wine is offered the type of his flesh and bloud and they which are partakers of the visible bread doe Spiritually eate the flesh of the Lord. Now according to this Father bread and wine are taken bread and wine are offered and these be the types or tokens of the body and bloud and that they be so called after Consecration is likewise acknowledged by Bellarmine And we may farther observe that the words of Macarius are so cleere for the spirituall and not corporall receiving as that some were faigne to set a Marginall glosse upon Macarius his text Of Image-worship The Councel of Elliberis in Granado in Spayne decreed That no Pictures should or ought to be in the Church lest that which is worshipped or adored should be painted on walls Now it will not serve to say that the Councel onely forbad the painting of Images on Church-walls where in time of persecution or otherwise they might be defaced as if they might be set or hung in tables for the Councels decree runs generally saying It is our mind that Pictures ought not to be in the Church Now if it forbad the very being of them in Churches then surely it utterly condemned their adoration Melchior Canus chargeth this ancient Councel with impietie for making such a decree de tollendis Imaginibus Saint Ambrose saith God would not have himselfe worshipped in stones the Church knoweth no vaine Idaea's and divers figures of Images but knoweth the true substance of the Trinity The fact of Epiphanius which himselfe records in his Epistle to Iohn Bishop of Hierusalem translated by Saint Hierome out of Greek into Latine is very famous in this case namely how himselfe found a Picture in the Church of the village of Anablatha which though it were out of his owne Diocesse yet in an hoâ—y zeale he tore it and wrote to the Bishop of the place beseeching him that no such Pictures might bee hanged up as being contrary to Religion The words of Epiphanius are these I found there a vayle hanging at the doore of the Church dyed and painted and having the Image as it were of Christ or some Saint for I doe not well remember whose Image it was when therefore I saw this that contrary to the authority of the Scriptures the Image of a man was hanged up in the Church of Christ I cut it and gave counsel to the keepers of the place that they should rather wrap and burie some poore dead man in it and afterward hee intreateth the Bishop of Hierusalem under whose governement this Church was to give charge hereafter that such vayles as those which are repugnant to our Religion should not be hanged up in the Church of Christ. I know indeed that Iesuit Fisher would shuffle off this evidence by saying that it was the picture of some prophane Pagan bâ—t Epiphanius himselfe saith it had imaginem quasi Christi vel Sancti cujusdam the image as it were of Christ or of some Saint surely therefore the Image went for Christs or for some noted Saints neither doâ—h he finde fault with the irresemblance but with the Image as such Baronius saith they are rather the forged words of some Image-breakers than of Epiphanius Bellarmine would disproove them by sundry conjectures which Master Rivet rejects and defeâ—dâ— the foresayd Epistle of Epiphanius clearing it from all the Cardinal 's cavills aâ—d surely if we observe Epiphanius his practice about the foresayd Image and his Doctrine of Mariam nemo adoret we may well thinke these two had both one Father PA. The Idolatry forbidden in Scripture and disliked by the Fathers is such as was used by Iewes and Pagans and this wee Christians practise not PRO. Indeed the Apostle when hee disswadeth Christians from Idolatry propounds the Iewes fall saying Neither be yee Idolaters as some of them were 1 Cor. 10. 7 8. The like also hee addeth touching another sinne Neither let us commit fornication as some of them did as well then might one pleade that Iewish or Heathenish fornication were onely reprehended as Iewish or Heathenish Idolatry it being a foule sinne whether it bee committed by Iewe Pagan or Christian and more haynous in the Christian who professeth Christ to practise that which Gods word condemneth in the Iewes and Pagans for Idolatry PA. The Heathen held the Images themselves to be Gods which is farre from our thought PRO. Admit some of the simpler sort of the Heathen did so what shall wee say of the Iewish Idolaters who erected the Golden calfe in the wildernesse can wee thinke that they were all so sencelesse as to imagine that the calfe which they knew was not at all in rerum naturâ and had no being at that time when they came out of Aegypt should yet be that God which brought them out of Aegypt Exod. 32.4 And for the Heathen people though they haply thought some divine Majestie and power was seated in the Images yet they were scarcely so rude as to thinke the Images which they adored to be very God for thus we find them usually to answer in the writings of the Fathers Wee worship the Gods by the Images and I neither worship the Image nor a Spirit in it but by the bodily portraiture I doe behold the signe of that thing which I ought to worship PAP Though the Heathen did not account the Image it selfe to be God yet were those Images set up to represent either things that had no being or Devils or false-Gods and in that respect were Idols whereas we erect Images onely to the honour of the true God and of his servants the Saints and Angels PRO. Suppose that many of the Idolatrous Iewes and Heathens Images were such as you say they were yet they were not all of them such howsoever Idolatry is committed by yielding adoration to an Image of the true God himselfe as appeareth by the first Chapter of the Epistle to the Romanes where the Apostle having said that God shewed unto them that which might bee knowne of him and that the Invisible things of him that is his
by the shew of old sacks old bottles old shoes old bread that was mouldie as if they had come a farre off whereas they dwelt but hard by in like sort you put on a visour of antiquity but once search the ground thereof and draw aside this maske and then your tenets appeare to be but noveltie in comparison of primitive antiquity for as Tertullian saith That is true which is first and that false which is later In a word we are no Innovators but Reformers we doe not professe any Religion new made but a religion reformed and refined so that wee may say with the Christian Poet Haec novitas non est novitas sed vera vetustas Relligio et Pietas Patrum instaurata resurgit Quod tua corrupit levitas et nota tuorum Segnities igitur si quis labentia tecta Erigat et sterilem qui mansuefecerit agrum Iudice te damnandus erit It is no novell thing wee preach But such as ancient Fathers teach The truth which former Popes conceal'd Doth now begin to be reveal'd Must he be blamed that repaires The ruin'd Church and weed's out tares And thus have our Reformers done And they for this must be undone It is true then that the good seed was first fowne by the Apostles and fructified in the Church generally for 60. yeares afterwards the Enemie supâ—r-seminavit zizania he resowed the tares which in part were weeded out by Waldo Wickliffe and Husse but more universally and publikely by Luther Calvine and others so that wee have not sowne any tares upon the Churches gleabe land but onely weeded out such as were sowne by others in the dead of the night in the time of ignorance not whilst the Husbandman himselfe slept For hee which keepeth Israel neither slumbereth nor sleepeth but cum dormirent homines whiles men slept that is the overseers of the Vineyard grew carelesse and negligent And thus might tares be sowne though the time and â—eedsman were not knowne for it is confessed by your Trent-â—athers That many things through the fault of times or the negligence and wickednesse of men have seemed to have crept in to the Masse which are repugnant to the dignity of so great a sacrifice and yet they cannot tâ—ll when these abuses crept in nor by whose default And thus by Gods assistance I have finished the taske which I undertooke having named out of good Auâ—hors a Catalogue of such professours as taught for substance as the Church of England doth and withall cleered the Catalogue of our professours from such exceptions as the adversarie hath made against them and in producing this evidence I have as hee speakes in Iob 8.8 enquired of the former ages and made search of their Fathers and have dealt as Ioseph's steward did when he made search for his masters Cup He began at the eldest and left at the youngest and the Cup was found in Benjamin's Sacke Gen. 44.12 we have begun with the former ages passed along the middle and descended unto Benjamin's even to the later ages abutting on Martin Luther's time and have found even with these younger ages the Cup that wee sought for to wit A Protestants Church visible and conspicuous And now having I hope satisfied your demand Where was our Church before Luther I would require the like of you namely to show if you can out of good Authours I will not say any Empire or Kingdome but any Citie Parish or Hamlet within five hundred yeares next after Christ in which there was any visible assembly of Christians to be named maintaining and defending either your Trent Creed in generall or these points of Poperie in speciall to wit 1. That there is a treasurie of Saints Merits and super-abundant satiâ—factions at the Popes disposing 2. That the Laitie are not commanded by Christs Institution to receive the Sacrament of the Lords Supper in both kinds 3. That the publicke Service of God in the Church ought or may be celebrated in an unknowne tongue 4. That private Masses wherein the Priest saith Edite bibite ex hoc omnes eate and drinke ye all of this and yet eateth and drinketh himselfe onely bee according to Christs Institution 5. That popes pardons are requisite or usâ—full to release soules out of purgatorie 6. That extreame unction is a Sacrament properly so called 7. That we may worship God by an Image 8. That the pope cannot erre in matters of Faith Shew us now if you can or any Papist in the world that these points above named which are maine points with you inasmuch as you account the denyers thereof Hereticks shew us I say that they were generally and constantly held for Catholick Church tenets in the first five hundred yeares next after Christ which is the very flower of primitive antiquitie But of these matters since this present conference is enlarged beyond my expectation at our next meeting if you please Meane time and ever the Lord of his mercie direct us in his owne wayes In the old way which is the god way as the prophet cals it Ierem. 6.16 and call home such as wilfully or by igâ—orance have gone astray that at length they may be brought to that One Shepherd and that One Sheepe fold of Christ Iesus to whom with his Father and the blessed Spirit be praise for evermore Amen FINIS Approbatio Censoris PErlegi hunc Librum cui titulus The Protestants Evidence c. Quem quonià m doctum judico et in palaestrâ Theologiae versatis utilissimum typis mandari permitto THO WEEKES D. P. D. Episc. Lond. Cap. Domest Genâ—sâ—â— 3.34 Ierem. 6 1â— a Hosea 7.8 b Populaâ— Israel non solum fâ—it infâ—ctuâ— Idololatriâ Ieroboam sed Idololatrijs Gentilium existentiuÌ„ circa populum Israel Lyra in loc Galath 2.9 2 Sam. 3 39. Prov. 27. v. 6. Iudg 14.18 1 Sam. 13.10 * â—ardius enascitur seris umbram factura Nâ—potibus Cupressus a Prot. Apolog. Tract 3. chap. 2. sect 2. p. 330. b Testes res omnes reculae nullam in orbe religionem nisi nostram imis unquam radicibus insedisse Camp rat 10. c Seculis omninò quindecim non oppidum non villam non domum reperiunt imbutam doctrinâ— suâ id rat 3. d Constat manifestè nemineÌ„ toâ—o oâ—be mortalium ante M. Lutherum hoc est anâ—e annuÌ„ 1517 〈◊〉 qui eam fidem tenâ—râ—t Coster Eâ—châ—â—id Coâ—trovers cap. 2. c Bristowes Motivâ—s Presat Motive 45. f Romaniâ—ellarm â—ellarm lib. 3. de Eâ—cleâ— cap. 2. g In Sole id estâ— in maniâ—estatione Aug. tâ—m 7. cont litâ— Petil. l. 2. cap 32. h Soâ—t poâ—uit tabernaâ—alâ—m in eis id est in ciâ—tiâ— Hieâ—on iâ— Psal. 18. to â— i Ecceâ—â—ia non apparebit impiâ—s tunc persecutoâ—ibuâ— vâ—tra modum savientibus Aug. epist. 80. tom 2. k Math. 5.15.16 l Chrysost. in Mathâ— c. 5. hom 10. tom 2. * Montem â—on videâ—â— nâ—lo mireris oculos non habent August tract 1.