haue beleued also in Christ to haue had the self same faith that we haue in substance but only by this distinction though set downe in other woordes For thus he writeth Aug. lib. â—5 Cont. Faust. cap. 14. Tunc occulta erat fides nam cadem credebant eadémque sperabant omnes iustâ— Sancti temporum illâ—rum c. Then vnder the old testament the faith of Saints wherby they beleued Christ to come and all his mysteries was hiddeÌ„ or couered for that all iust holie men of those tymes beleued the self same things that we do now and did hope for the same but now our faith is cleere reuealed Thus saith S. Augustine making the same difference in effect as yow see betwene tâ—e faith of vs Christians and of those vnder the old testament as we do betwene learned and vnlearned men at this day the one being cleere distinct particular the other obscure confuse and more general for so much as those points of Christs incarnation diuynitie person natures wils sacraments passion resurrection and the like which we beleue now distinctly and cleerly and in particuler they beleued obscurely and more confusedly as vnder a vaile 2. Cor. 3. as the Apostle termeth it and as it were in grosse and general in that they beleued whatsoeuer the Prophets and Patriarches had fortold or beleued of Christ to come and his doctrine and mysteries as the more vnlearned sort of Christians do now in beleuing whatsoeuer the Churche holdeth though in particular they knew not euery point which she holdeth but only the most notorious and needful as those general heades commonly called the Articles of the Creed some other deduced therof and appointed to be taught and explaned to euery Christian more in particular though not all but so many as are necessarie to be knowen for their saluation And this simplicitie of belief in the common sort which our scoffing knight calleth the Colliars faith himself being more ignorant in diuers pointes of true faith then many Colliars or Coblers in the Catholike Churche the foresayd holie father and learned doctor S. Augustine doth so highlie esteme as he dareth auouche against as stowt an heretike as our K â— or his Ministers this sentence Aug. 1. coÌ„tâ—a Ep. Fundam Turbam non intelligendi viuacitas sed credendâ— simplicitas tutissimam facit The vulgar sort of Christians are made most sure of their saluatioÌ„ by the viuacity of their vnderstanding but by the simplicity of beleeuing c. Wel then good readers all this that hitherto hath byn said hath byn to lay before yow the fond cauillations of wrangling Sectaries about fides explicita and implicita they vnderstanding nether the nature vtility or necessity therof For the truth is that Cath. religion doth hould them both and iudgeth both most necessary in all sorts of men though they are more in some then in others The necessity of fides explicita in all men For as for fides explicita all Catholyke wryters do agree that all sorts of Christians whatsoeuer must haue it in the principle articles of Christian beleef vnder paine of eternal damnation that is to say that all Christians learned and vnlearned of what sort so euer must be taught to beleeue expressely cleerly and distinctly the principal misteries of Christian religion as for example the misteries of the Blessed trinity and incarnation c. This doctrine is so ordinary and vniuersal among Catholiks D. Thom. 2. 2. q 2. art 6.7.8 c. as S. Thomas hath diuers whole articles therof and all other schoole diuines do agree about that matter though our K t. would gladly haue men to think that we do not teach this fides explicita as necessarie to any almost of the simple sort Secondly our Churche teacheth that albeit this cleere and distinct faith be necessary to all Christians in certayne articles yet not to all a like More things necessary to be beleeued by some than others but that the learneder sort are bound to know beleeue by this faith more thinges theÌ„ the simple especially those that must teach others as Curats Pastors Preachers and the like and more then all the rest Bishoppes and Prelates which S. Thomas declareth in these words SecuÌ„da 2. q. 2. art 7. in corp artic post tempus gratiae reuelatae c. After the comming of Christ as wel teachers as the people are bouÌ„d to haue fidem explicitam cleere and expresse beleef of the misteries of Christian faith especially touching those points that are solemnized in the Churche and are publikely proposed vnto them as are the articles of the incarnation before treated But as for more higher considerations some are bound to beleue more and some lesse according as the state and office of each one requireth c. And againe yet further plura tenentur explicitè credere maiores Ibid. art 6. ad primum qui habent officium alios instrueÌ„di quam alij Those that be in Ecclesiastical authority or haue obligation to teach others are bound also to beleeue more things expressely and distinctly then others Thus teacheth our Churche and the discreet reader wil easily iudge with how great reason piety necessity for the saluation of those that are committed to her charge And to the end yow may see with how litle iudgment the sectaries of our tyme and namely our Knight taking thesame out of Iohn Caluyn do cauil at our doctrine herin Caluin Institut l. 3. c. 2. â— 2. I shal make yow see and him also to confesse yf he be not shamelesse that himself his men do vse put in practise the very same distinction of fides explicita and implicita are forced therâ—nto yf in truth they wil confesse to haue any â—aith at all For I would aske him first whether euery â—rotestant do not professe to beleue all that Christ and his Apostles and the Prophets beâ—ore them haue taught The necessitie of fides implicita eueÌ„ in heretiks or at leastwayes so â—uch as they haue written and set downe in â—â—riptures And then would I aske againe how â—any English protestants do know distinctly 〈◊〉 this day all that is in the scriptures touching â—hristian fayth And if to the first there be no â—oubt but that he wil answere affirmatiuely 〈◊〉 that to the second he must needs answere â—â—gatiuely than it followeth that those proâ—â—stants who beleeue all things that are in â—â—riptures and yet do not know expressely or â—â—â—tinctly what they are in particular thease I 〈◊〉 do beleeue those points which they know 〈◊〉 fide implicita that is to say by an implied 〈◊〉 in that they beleeue in general whateuer is contayned in the scriptures Another like demaund may be to the simâ—â—r sort of Protestants Another demaund to Sir Francis and perhaps to Sir F. â—â—â—self though he take not himself for such â—â—ich is whether he beleeue to be false all
are extant in the Code both in Greeke and Latyn Nestorius Leg. eum recta â—eruâ—torem ibid. Euthichâ—s Apollinaris as dissenting from the Roman Church and Bishops therof Now then let the reader iudge whether these lawes of the Emperors made against heretikes do touch vs or protestants And so much of this second poynt The third poynt also touching S. Augustine his approuing S. Augustin alleaged by O. E. against himself and commending much these Emperors for punishing heresyes for making lawes against heretikes is altogither for vs in like manner and fully against protestants August lib. 1. contr Ep. Parmâ—n cap. 6. 10. ep 62. 166. Aug. ep 4â— ad Vincent for that S. Augustine dealing specially in this pointe against the Donatists Circumcellians who denyed the visible Church dispersed ouer the whole world and restrayned it to their sect only in Africa as euery sect of our Protestants doth at this day to the particuler place and Society where they liue it is easely seene who were heretikes and who to be punished by S. Augustines opinion to wit those that do rise vp against the vniuersal knowne and visible Church of their tyme do condemne it or are condemned by it and let Sir minister bring but one example to the contrarie in any age from Christ to Luther and it shal be sufficient to wit that any man condemned by the general knowne and visible Church of his tyme for an heretike was not held and taken for such by any of that tyme or any tyme after that was not an heretike himselfe let Oules eie I say spie but one exaÌ„ple of this out of all antiquitie and it shal be sufficieÌ„t Wherfore to end all his matter about Imperial lawes for punishing of heretikes and approuing therof both by the Apostle and by S. Augustine which yet other Protestants hitherto did neuer vrge as this witles minister doth let the reader marke this firme deduction and playne demonstration all those foresaid Christian and Catholike Emperors so much comended by S. Augustine and other Fathers following after him to wit Gratian Valentinian Theodosius Marcian Arcadius Honorius Iustinian and others A manifest deduction demonstration against nevv sectaties that made lawes against heretikes they held the Roman religion in their dayes to be the Catholike and true Christian religion though diuers of them were of the Greeke Church and Empyre They professed the Bishops of Rome to be the heads and cheife leaders of this vniuersal and visible Catholike Church as before hath byn shewed by the example of Gratian ValeÌ„tiniaÌ„ Theodosius to Pope Damasus of Arcadius Honorius Theodosius the second S. Augustine Pope Innocentius primus and of Iustinian to Pope Iohn the first and consequeÌ„tlie they pronounced for heretikes all those that did rise vp apart vnder particuler Authors differing in opinions from this vniuersal church as Arrians Donatists Montanists and the like This vniuersal visible and external Church hath endured euer since vnder Popes and Emperors and other gouernors of Christianitie vntil the tyme of Pope Leo the tenth and his successors and of Emperors Ferdinand Charles the fifth Maximilian and their followers when Luther began to brake out from that Church and against that Church and others following his example since that tyme. Now then I would aske by what equity or reason this later brood comming forth of this Church and rebelling against it can cal those men heretikes that remayned in the fayth of the foresaid Church and moreouer wil say that they must be punished by the same lawes that the foresaid Catholike Emperors made against those that impugned that Churche This I say I would haue our new Oedipus to answere and in the meane space the discrete reader may consider how it can be answered by him so blush for him that hath not byn ashamed to bring in so cleare a conuiction against himselfe One onely sillie shift or pettie cauil this minister perhaps may run vnto as dyuers of his fellowes are wont with a brasen affirming that the visible Catholike and Roman Church when Luther began was not the same that it was when those Emperors made those lawes but theÌ„ I would aske him when it changed and how and by what meanes so great a body so generally planted so strengthened and fortifyed not only by Gods spirite but also by learned men Doctors Councels in euery age could come to be changed and perish without testimony of any one wryter or historiographer without noyse coÌ„tention or contradiction of any The Emperors are knowne that liued and raigned in this meane space and except two or 3. as Leo the third called Isaurus and his sonne Constantine the fifth surnamed Capronius which fel into heresyes and were noted and condemned by the same Churche all the rest liued and dyed in one Religion of their ancestors The Popes also from Ioannes primus before mentyoned to whom Iustinian the Emperor wrote his decree vnto Leo decimus wheÌ„ Luther begaÌ„ne are in nuÌ„ber about 17c all of one religion nor can it be shewed that any one Pope impugned his predecessor in matters of fayth This demonstration is as cleare then as that 3. and 4. do make 7. for when Luther and Lutherans began their new sects A most â—leere palpable demoÌ„stration our Churche was held for the only Catholike and true Churche of christendome and so did both Luther Zuinglius and Caluin hold it also before they fel when the one was a Fryer the other two Priests and all three said Masse how then by their falling from it the said church should be made no church and their new congregations to be the only true Cathol Church and that they should come now to-call themselues Catholikes and vs heretikes and that we should be punished for heretikes by the former Imperial lawes made against themselues and their lyke this I say is a mysterie and metamorphosis that passeth the reach of all sober men and none but mad heads can eyther say it or beleeue it for that by the same argument may English Puritanes at this day which is a yonger brood of protestaÌ„ts as yow know in our country taking some port or towne in England fortifying themselues therin cal Parlament Protestants to account saying as they do that they are the elder church and that they wil punish parlament Protestants with the same Parlament lawes which Protestants made of purpose to punish them But I am ouerlong in a matter so cleare and therfore I craue pardon of thee good reader and wil here end and so much the rather for that I am to handle this poynt more at large afterward against O. E. in his new chalenge to wit who be heretikes and who be not for that he wil needs take vpon him to defend this mad desperate paradox that papists be heretikes protestants Catholikes but I think we shal shake him out of his clouts when he cometh to that combat
diligence and concurse vnto the Churches and sepulchres of Martyrs as in Rome where do they so much sound out the word Amen to the likenes of an heauenlie thunder Heere now we see the Romanes faith highlie praysed by S. The Catholike deuotioÌ„ of Rome Hierome and proued to be more excellent then of any other Christians in the world for their earnest deuotion and running to Churches and sepulchers of martyrs this if Syr F. had put downe sincerlie as it lyeth in S. Hierome it would haue marred his market and giuen a great buffet to his religion as yow see speciallie if he had added the wordes immediatlie following in S. Hierome S. Hier. Ibid. which are these Non quod altam habeant Romani fidem nisi hanc quam omnes Christi Ecclesiae sed quod deuotio in eâ—s maior sit simplicitas ad credendum The fayth of Rome is speciallie praysed by the Apostels aboue others not for that the Romanes had a different fayth from that which all other Churches of Christ do hould but that their deuotion and simplicitie in beleeuing was greater then the rest By which words is euident first that in S. Hieromes tyme the Romayne faith was accompted the general Catholike faith of all Christendome which Romayne faith as after more largelie shal be demoÌ„strated was sent into Britany by Pope Eleutherius before S. Hieromes tyme Enc. 7. c. 6.7 after his tyme brought into England agayne by S. Augustine the monke at S. Gregoryes appoyntment so as twise we haue had communication participation of this Romayn faith so higlie coÌ„mended by S. Paul and S. Hierome Secondlie it is to be noted that the things most praysed in the Roman fayth by S. Hierome are two poyntes most scorned at by our Protestants to wit simplicitie in beleeuing without disputing or curiouslie asking reasons and secondly promptenes of deuotion in visiting Churches martyrs Sepulchers and the like for which two poynts of simplicitie in beleeuing and deuotion S. Hierome is of opinion that S. Paul did so speciallie commend the Romanes in his dayes which poynts being so farre different from the iudgments and affections of the protestants of our dayes no maruaile though Syr F. heere would not let vs see S. Hieromes whole sentence but a peece only cut out as he thought best for his purpose and yet this peece also not truly nor faithfullie aleadged as now shal be shewed And this is one principal poynt to be considered gentle reader for thy instruction in these menâ— manner of dealing how many wayes the poore shifting knight hath altered this litle poore latyn sentence of S. Hierome to make it sound somwhat to his purpose S. Hieromes text abuâ—ed to wit Tota Ecclesia instar tonitrui reboat Amen Adding first of his owne the two first words Tota Ecclesia which are not in S. Hierome then changing ad similitudinem which S. Hierome vseth into instar and leauing out the word caelestis found in S. Hierome and lastlie seperating and cutting of the whole from the precedent and consequent sentence and true sense as hath byn shewed so as in six words foure at least haue receyued alteration or imposture And yet we know that both in reason and custome when any sentence is aleadged first in latyn and then in English as this is by him the former at least shouâ—d be exact and in the Authors owne words but necessitie giueth this libertie to Syr F. to clip and cut tryfle and cauil as he may let vs see yet further There foloweth in his reply another text aleadged out of S. Augustin to the same purpose for prouing publike Churche seruice to be in vulgar tongues Psalm â—â— expounding these words of the Psalme Beatus populus qâ—â— intellâ—gâ—t iubilationem August sup psalm 99. which words our K. interpreteth thus Blessed is the people that vnderstandeth the ioyful song And further addeth out of thesame Father this exhortation vpon thesame woords S. Augustines vvordes falsely applied Curâ—amus ergò ad hanc beatitudinem intelligamus iubilatiâ—nem non èam sine intellectu fundamus Let vs runne to this blessednes let vs vnderstand this iubilation let vs not power it out without vnderstanding All which being meant most playnlie of inward vnderstanding and feeling of blessed â—oy within our hartes this grosse interpreter wil needs transferre all to outward crying singing and chaunting of Geneua Psalmes in their Churches and for this cause translateth falsely the words intelligamus iubilationem non eam sine intellectu fundamus Let vs vnderstand the song let vs not sing it without vnderstading as though alâ— were meant by singing in vulgare knowne tongues for that the word vnderstanding is so often repeated which yet is as â—arre of from S. Augustynes true meaning and whole drifte in that place as if the knigâ—t would inferre also that because he vseth the word Curramus let vs runne he would defend therby running games in England or running at bazes or prison barres in Churcheyards as yong people are wont to do for that the holy Father in that place handling these words of the Psalm 99. August Ibidâ— initio Iubilate Deo vniuersa terra let the whole earth reioyce to God saâ—th first Non hoâ—taâ—ur velut aliquem vnum angulum terrae c. The spirit of God doth not exhort any one corner of the world or any one habitation or congregation of men to Iubilate and reioyce vnto him but for that he knoweth that he hath sowed his benediction euery where he requires this iubilation euery where also These are S. Augustines words and let the reader iudge whether these be spoken of any corporal singing psalmes or saying seruice in particuler Churches and congregations or rather of inward iubilation of spirit which S. Augustine expresly meaneth and for confirmation therof he alleadgeth also those words before cyted out of an other psalme Psalm â—â— Beatus populus qui intelligit iubilationem Happie is the people that vnderstandeth this Iubilation which word vnderstandeth for that our heretyke buildeth all his argument theron S. Hierome enterpreteth nouit iubilationem happy is the people that knoweth Iubilation S. Hieron in Psal. â—â— or as our ordinary latyn edition hath Scit iubilationem knoweth or feeleth Iubilation which later sense also S. Augustine himself foloweth in other places reading Sciens iubilationeÌ„ All which senses the Greeke and Hebrue words do beare that is to say Happie is that people of God which feeleth inward comfort and spiritual iubilation of hart in his seruice Which being so most fondlie and childishlie is this text brought in by S r. F. to proue external singing of psalmes in vulgar languages quite coÌ„trarie to S. Augustines meaning words and sence as now I shal more particulerlie declare out of two playne places of thesaid Father The first is in the very same treatise aleadged by our aduersary which yf as he could not but see it S.
Augustine explicaâ—eth himself so had he vttered or not fraudulentlie concealed thesame the question had byn out of doubt S. Aug. in Psalm 9â— For thus sayth S. Augustine Qui iubilat non verba dicit sed sonus quidam est laetinae sine verbis vâ—x est enim animi diffusi laetitia exprimentis quantum potest affectum non sensum comprehendentis He that doth Iubilate or hath this Iubilation meant by the Prophet doth not vtter any words for it is a certayne sound of inward ioy without words it is a voyce of our mynd ful of Ioy and expressing her affection as much as she can but not attayning to expresse the ful inward feeling therof Thus doth S. Augustine explicate himselfe And in an other place more playnlie yet Aâ—g in Psal. â—â— asking this question quid est intelligas iubilationeÌ„ what is meaÌ„t by the Prophet when he willeth thee to vnderstand iubilation and then answereth vt scias vnde gaudeas quod verbis explicare non possis that thou maist know wherof to reioyse without being able to expresse thesame in words Lo heere the truth of these good fellowes that alleadge vs Doctors so flatlie against their owne words and meaning About the vvords of S. Paul 1. Cor. 14. to speake in a knovveâ— tonge And this were sufficient to end this controuersie but that the K t. hath a florish more out of S. Paul who most diuinely sayth he treateth this matter in his fauour belike in his first Epistle to the Corinthians 14. Chapter And that Caâ—etan moued by those words of the Apostle thinketh that prayer should be made in vulgar tongues To the first it is euident ynough by the place it selfe that those words of the Apostle make nothing at all for publike seruice and that the former partes therof are playnlie spoken of prophesying exhortations when christiaÌ„s did meete in the primitiue Churche Cypr. epist. ad Pomp. Quiâ—inum Aug lib. 2. dâ— bapt cap â— Basil. quest breuiteâ— exâ—l q. 27â— Amb in 1. Cor. 1â— which exhortations to the people he would haue in a knowne language which all did vnderstand not in forayne peregryne tongues which many did speake by gifte of the holy ghost And so do enterpret this place S. Cyprian S. Augustine S. Basil S. Ambrose and diuers other Fathers And in the later part of the Apostles words where he speaketh of praying and singing that it should not be in a peregryne tongue he cannot be vnderstood to speake or meane of publike seruice in the Churche for that this publike seruice was already in the greeke toÌ„gue at Corinth whether he wrote this Epistle and in no peregrine or straÌ„ge language but such as was vnderstood by all all being Grecians consequentlie it had byn impertineÌ„t in S. Paul to persuade that it should be in a knowne language S. Paules true meaning Paul Eph 5. vers 20. wherfore his meaning was of certayne spiritual songs which diuers inspired by the holy ghost in the Primitiue Churche did breake foorth into ex tempore in their meetings of which S. Paul sayth to the Ephesians Be not drunken with wyne which leadeth to vncleanes but be fâ—l of the holy ghost speaking one to another in psalmes and hymnes and spiritual songes singing and reioycing in your hartes to Christ. Col. 3. vers 16 And agayne to the Colossians Singing in your harts to God by his grace in Psalmes and hymnes and spiritual songes These songs therfore comming of aboundance of the holy Ghost and oâ— that inward Iubilation of hart before spoken of in the primitiue Churche it fel out that some Christians by the gifte of tongues very ordinarily in those dayes did vtter sometymes these their affections in strange languages as in the Arabian Persian and other like tongues which neyther theÌ„selues perhaps nor others did alwayes vnderstand and sometymes others interpreting by thesame giâ—â—e of tongues that which they spake without vnderstanding â—ift of toÌ„ges to the first Christians as is playne by the text of S. Paule who therfore for the common consolation of all exhorteth them to vtter theire â—eeling and suggestions of the holy Ghost rather in a knowne tongue then in externe languages and this of priuate meetings and spiritual reioycing of those first Christians amoÌ„g themselues But as for publike prayer and reading of scriptures in the Churche who knoweth not that they were read in the Hebrew tongue in the Churches and congregations of Iury and in the Greeke tongue among the Corinthians and other Grecyans and east Churches in Latyn among the Romanes as before hath byn shewed and no probabilitie that S. Paul did euer mislike the same consequentlie could not meane therof in this Epistle And though Caietan should haue any other singular interpretation or illatioÌ„ of his owne in his commentarie vpon this place it is farre from the meaning of the Apostle as yow haue seene and different from the exposition and sense of ancient Fathers whom we are to follow before him yet in the very beginning of the same commentarie he hath these words Caet comeÌ„t in cap. 14. 1. Cor. vniuersus textus iste loquitur propriè de donis linguarum prophetiae vt tractando textus ipse testatur All this text doth speake properlie of the giftes of tongues and prophesying as the text it selfe in handling doth testifie which if it be true then can nothing for publike seruice in vulgar tongues be proued out of it thus much of this OF THE FOVRTH AND fift blessings affirmed to haue byn brought in by Protestantes which are aboundance of good woorkes freedome from persecution CAP. X. HAVING byn ouer long in the examination of the former three blessings The fourth blessing good lyfe of Protestants I meane to be much shorter in the rest wherfore there foloweth the fourth blessing which Syr F. bringeth in as peculiar to protestants for otherwise it were no blessing obteyned by change of religion which is the rare and singular good lyfe of ProtestaÌ„ts called by this blessing bringer Pag. 18. their exercise in workes of true pietye and in his marginal note and ranke of blessings The exercise of true Holinesse which is a straÌ„ge blessing if a man consider wel of it that the exercise of good works and true holynes was brought in onlie or principallie by Protestants of our dayes for first the experience of the whole world wil deny it and cry out against it and secondlie there best frends who speake most of their faith wil and do renounce their woorks as for example Erasmus among other Fox in the lyfe of Bilney and other first protestants Erasmi Ep. ad Carth. apud Surium an 1â—â—6 whom Fox euery where would nedes make their first founder and fauourer though himself deny and detest them after experience had of their liues saith thus Neminem vidi meliorem deteriores omnes I neuer saw any made better
he answereth thus As if we had procured all these battayles murders destructions The florish of the minister as if we or our religion were the occasion c. what a shameles fellow is this to impute the cause oâ— troubles and warres vnto vs that euer auoyded warres as much as we could and offred force to no man nor euer styrred but as defendants for safegard of our lyues are lambes the cause of the cruelty of wolues All these big wordes are but arguments of the Noddyes distracted mynd c. Lo reader what a manner of answering this is and how many books might be made in this kynd of wryting wherfore leauing this let vs come to the matter of diuision in religion Where I say that before this alteration of religion by Luther there was vnity among Catholikes to wit one God adored throughout all christendome one faith and beleefe one forme of seruice one number of SacrameÌ„t one tongue in celebration one sacrifice one head of the Churche c. and that now â—ll is deuided O E. damneth all his ancestors he answereth first that to speake â—â—uly the most part of Christians in those dayes lyued â—ithout all knowledge of God or of Christ Iesus hauing â—â—thing of Christianity but the very name and the â—â—tward Sacrament of Baptisme So that he yeilâ—eth not to them the inward vertue of Baptisme nor the true beleefe of any one article of the creed before Luther rose which after he repeateth agayne in expresse wordes saying they vnderstood not any one article of the fayth Pag 17. What wil yow say to this man that maketh all his ancestors for so many hundred yeares together and the ancestors also of her Maiestie her father grandfather and the rest meere infidels and christians only in name and that they vnderstood no one article of christiaÌ„ fayth Were not this fellow worthier to be cuggelled then disputed withal his tongue rather to be putted out then his pen answered by wryting but he goeth forward saying that I do ridiculously distinguish faith from beleefe in that I do say there was theâ— one faith and beleefe in christendome before Luther as though the coniunction and did distinguish and nâ—t conioyne together who is heere ridiculous or who is the Noddy or who is the ridiculous noddy let the reader iudge Further he proceedeth affirming that whâ—ras I say before the alteration of religion there was one forme of seruice one number of Sacraments one tongue in celebration one sacrifice and one head of the Churche then are mâ—re palpable and vayne vntruthes conteyned iâ— tâ—esâ— wordes Pag. 17. then is possible to vtter readily with onâ— tongue And yet he with that his one tonguâ— vttereth readely and desperatly fiue or six notorious open lyes at the least in contradicting that I say For first to contradict that there was not one forme of seruice he bringeth in the differences of old Liturges Pag. â—8 saying not only the greek lyturgie doth much differ from the latyn but also the latyn liturges do much differ from themselues and were so full of abuses that the councel of Trent abolishing a number of old Missals portuisses was constrayned to make new yet all naught being nothing like the liturgies of the Apostolike Churche described by Iustyn martyr Dionise of Athens diuers other Fathers for those of S. Iames S. Basil S. Chrysostome are playnly counterfeited Heere though I call this but one ly First notorious lye about old and nevv lyturges and Missals or impudency yet are there diuers for first all these liturges do agree in the substance of the sacrifice whose manner of offring they do prescribe which heretikes cannot deny Caluyn himselfe doth accuse the Fathers for it lib 4. cap. 18. institut as a litle after shal be shewed more at large and consequently the differeÌ„ce betwixt these liturges and Missals is only eyther for that the one is in Latyn the other in Greeke or that they haue some differeÌ„t prayers ceremonyes altering nothing the thing it selfe as the Missals in like manner of the latyn Churche had alwayes that variety permitted to them without breach of vnity As â—or example those of the vse of Rome of Millan of Toledo in Spayne of Sarum in England and other national Churches are at â—his day allowed Neyther did the councel of â—rentabolish any of â—â—ese auncient vses but â—ome newer abuses that might perhaps in so great a body haue crept in And wheras this man wil seeme to allow of the lyturges of Iustine Martyr and of Dionise of Athens as Apostolike reiecting the other of S. Iames S. Basil S. Chrysostome as counterfet he contradicteth himself by ignorance and malice for that Iustine martyr and Dionise of Athens wrote noe lyturges and the other three which he reiecteth togeather with that of S. Clement which as litle he wil allow are the onely lyturges that are extant so that if theise be counterfet then are there noe Apostolike lyturges for Iustyne and Dionise to describe as he sayth they doe Ciril Hierosol Cathechis 4. 5. mistach Ambros. lib. 5. 6. de Sacram but S. Ciril in his Cathechisme and S. Ambrose in his bookes de Sacramentis doe describe and expounde the foresayd lyturges by this man reiected And so he talketh he cannot tel what The second notoriously is in contradicting one number of Sacraments held among Catholykes before Luthers alteration 2. Notoriouslyes about the nomber of 7. Sacramentes The number of 7. Sacraments sayth he was not certaynely established nor receiued before the late councel of Trent and in the councel of Lateran vnder Pope Innocentius there is mention made only of 2. Sacraments which wee retayne Here are two shameful vntruthes auowched coÌ„cerning two councelles For first the Councel of Florence which was an hundred yeares before that of Trent Concil Florent in instruct Armenoâ—um to wit anno 1440. doth set downe plainly and distinctly the number of seauen Sacraments in the same order that â—ee doe now and aboue 200. yeares before that councel agayne Peter Lombard Bishoppe of Paris Sentent lib. 4 dist 2. commonly called M. of the sentences all other scoolemen after him doe set downe and handle distinctly seauen Sacramentes without any note of noueltie or contradiction made against them which is an euident argument that this was at that tyme also the common doctryne of the Catholyke Church And albeit the auncient Fathers as this man obiecteth doe not set downe precisely this nomber of Sacraments in expresse wordes and in one place all together yet doe they set downe the thinges them-selues and the same nomber also in different places as by Catholyke writters is shewed aboundantly when they treate of the nomber of Sacraments And as for the obiection about the councel of Lateran it is an egregious impudencie for that in the very same place by him alleaged in his margent A â—alfication about the
these that follow The summe of all that hath byn said about blessings and cursings First in spiritual affayres to haue no certayntie of religion at all as hath byn proued no stay no foundation no final rule to try or iudge to determin but onlie euery maÌ„s owne priuate head and fancie wrangling and iangling without end for that it is without iudge or meanes to make an end nouelties without number libertie of lyfe without feare or force of ecclesiastical discipline to restrayne it And then in teÌ„poral matters the blessings are such as haue byn discouered our realme deuided shiuered in a thousand peeces our Princesse in yeares without children or hope of any our crowne without succession our old frends allies made our enemyes our new frends vncertayne our owne flesh and countrymen most pittifullie deuided within their owne bowels and most miserably tossed and tormoyled both abroad and at home abroad and in other couÌ„tryes with prisons yroÌ„s chaynes gallyes and other afflictions euen to death it selfe for being protestants pyrates spyes practisers or other such imputations incident to enemyes At home afflicted with no lesse persecutions of our owne Magistrats for being Catholikes or deemed to be such So as I would fayne know who they are in our litle Iland that feele these innumerable benefits blessings by change of religion which this gentleman talketh of seing there are verie fewe eyther of one religion or other that tast not of the miseries wherof I haue spoken eyther in themselues their frends children seruants kynsfolkes goods honors or otherwise and most of al the realme and commoÌ„ wealth it selfe c. To all this speach and reason of the warder Syr F. answereth onlie in foure or fiue lynes thus Pag. 2â— Vayne and ydle ansvvering As for your building of Castels in the Ayre by supposal oâ— blessings that might probably haue ensued if religion had not byn altered because I meane not to take the paynes to follow yow in your extrauagant discourses and because they are indeed nothing but the imaginations of an ydle brayne I leaue them to M r. Moores Fictio Vtopica Who could answere with fewer words or lesse matter so large important a discourse then Syr F. doth heere or who could go further â—rom the purpose then he that leaueth out the substance of all his aduersaries allegation and entertayneth himselfe in tryfles of his owne deuising Let the reader iudge whether his answere be rightlie termed a wastword or no. I must needs conclude as S. Augustine did against Iulian with this interrogation Aug. lib. 1. contra Iulianum cap. 1. Quaero abs te cur libâ—o meo saltem spetie tenus te respondisse glorieris cum libri mei partem nec quartam reprehendendo tetigeâ—is eosque saltus in praetereundis meis disputationibus feceris quasi omnino despâ—rares veriusque operis mei scilicet tui quenquam esse posse lectorem qui ista deprehenderet I aske of yow Syr F. as good a disputer or shifter rather as was Iulian how yow can glorie to haue answered my former book wheras yow haue not so much as touched the fourth parte therof and haue made such leapes in passing ouer my arguments disputatioÌ„s as though yow dispayred that any reader would view both workes and fynd out your falshood in this behalfe VVHAT O. E. ANSVVEreth to the former chapter about diuision and vncertainty in religion CAP. XV. I HAVE signifyed vnto thee gentle reader before that where the knight fynding matters somwhat hard or vneasie to answere seeketh now and then with some regard of honor and reputation to step ouer without stumbling and to salue some matters by smothe sylence there bold bayard the minister rushing in with more resolution masking himselfe with the vizard of two vowels O. E. which may stand perhaps in his cypher for Owles Eyes to looke thorough and to see and not be seene agayne layeth on load both in babling and scoulding saying somwhat to euery thing though nothing in deed to all and folowing the threed of my speach and narration he picketh quarrels to whatsoeuer seemeth most capable of cauillation and this appeareth to be his cheifely entended exployt in this his enterprise of answering the proofe shal be seene by experience And first of all wheras the warder obiecteth diuision disvnion and disagreement to him and his as you haue heard and this not onlie from Catholikes but also from their owne ghospellers Pag. 4. as from the Lutheranes in Germany and Denmarke to vse the warders owne wordes from Zwinglians in Zuitzerland from Caluinists in Geneua France Holland and Scotland from Puritanes Brownists and other sects at home that impugne Protestants daylie of the parlament religion This fellow denyeth first verie flatlie Pag. 19. that there is any diuision among them at all And heere he wynneth the first garland of impudencie as yow see but look vpon an other more cleare then this Great impudency of O. E. Secondly sayth he the Churches of Zwitzerland Germany France England do neyther hold of Zuinglius Caluyn nor Luther but of Christ Iesus and of his Apostles and Prophets Lo reader how quicklie this matter 〈◊〉 dispatched and how soone disagreement 〈◊〉 made betweene them see the 4.5 and 6. former chapters for tryal of this poynt and note by the way that of purpose he leaueth out heere the Puritanes espetialie mentyoned by the warder for that he hauing written so earnestlie against them a litle before caÌ„not with his honour now make attonemeÌ„t with them as he doth with the Lutheranes of Germany Zuinglians of Switzerland and Caluinists of France vniting them all in one Churche and in the true doctryne of Iesus Christ and consequentlie also with himselfe and his Churche of England according to the rule principle Quae conueniunt in aliquo tertio inter se etâ—an conueniunt those things that agree in a thirdâ— agree also betweene themselues which he expoundeth also presentlie after by the wordeâ— next folowing As â—or our selues sayth he al of vs professe the doctryne of Christ Iesus Pag 19. according to that rule that was established by common consâ—â—â— of the Churche of England from which if any digresse he is no more to be accounted of our society thâ—â— the Papists c. Marke heere good reader the guyddy head of this gagling goose first he ioyneth together in the true doctryne of Iesus Christ Most foolish inconstancy and contradiction to himselfe and of his Apostles and prophets as wel all Lutherans and Zuinglians as also all kynde of Caluinists and consequently Puritanes whome yet presentlie he cutteth oâ— agayne Pag. 17. no less then Papists and those of the Popes retinue whom before he said to be no Christians nor to hold any one article a right of christian fayth if they do digresse in any thing from the rule of fayth established by common consent of the Churche of England which all doe
and consequentlie he doth as much as if with one hand he should embrace lul and coople together both Lutherans Zuinglians and Puritanes acknowledging them for his deare and tender brethren and with the other should beat them of detest them as enemyes and publike heretikes for so he doth in effect seing it is euident that neyther the sectaryes of LutheraÌ„s Zuinglians or Puritan-Caluinists of Geneua France ScotlaÌ„d HollaÌ„d or England do agree which O. E. his rule of fayth here mentioned to wit the rule established by common consent at this day in the Churche of England And this is euidentlie and aboundantly proued by their owne books and sayings before recyted in the 4.5.6 and sequeÌ„t chapters of this Encounter But for that our Minister maketh mention heere of a certayne rule of fayth wherby he and his are directed and others that digresse from the same are to be reiected from their communion and societie I meane to examine â—he same brieflie in this place and to see what 〈◊〉 is And first of all that there is and must be â—ome certayne rule among Christians That their is some certayne rule of fayth as vvel hovv to beleeue as also vvherby to interpret scriptures wherby â—o know and stay their fayth and to discerne â—ew Catholykes from heretykes is most â—â—ident both by reason it selfe and by the authoritie of the verie first founders of our religion who often do make mention and admonish vs therof as S. Paul to the Corinthians secundum regulam nostram 2. Cor. 10. according to our rulâ— and to the Philippenses in eadeÌ„ permaneamus regula let vs persist in the same rule And to the Gallatians Phil. 3. quicúnque hanc regulam secuâ—â— fuerâ—â—t pax super illos whosoeuer shal follow this rule of fayth Gal. 6. peace vpon them and other such places Rom. 12. as namely to the Romanes Prophetia secundum rationem fidei prophesy by which iâ— vnderstood heere principallie interpretatioâ— of scriptures according to the rule or analogie oâ— fayth for so is the greek word By all which places is manifest that there iâ— a certayne publike rule of fayth and was eueâ— among the Apostles them-selues and thesamâ— continued afterward by all the Fathers oâ— euery age wherby it was easye to distinguiâ—â— betweene such as were Orthodoxi or Catholykes and others that were new fangled oâ— wrangling people that would follow no rulâ— but their owne head and fancyes of whiâ—â— rule make mention also in the primitiâ—â— Churche Ignatius after the Apostles epist. adâ—â—â—gnetianos Iustinus Apol 2. pro Christianis Irenaeus 〈◊〉 1. cap. 1. 2. Clemens lib. 4. stromatum aduersus 〈◊〉 reses Tertullianus lib. de velandis virginibus 〈◊〉 Alexandrinus as S. Basil cyteth him lib. de spiriâ—â— cap. 29. and many other Fathers commendiâ—â— highlie and inculcating often the obseruatiâ—â— of this rule as wel for beliefe as also for inteâ—â—pretation of Scriptures but especiallie to câ—â—â—cerne heretikes who to vse these Fathers owne words do no sooner begin to pratle but that by digressing from this rule do bewray them-selues and shew what they are and thus far that there is a rule which our enemies cannot deny But now what that rule is it may be that our Minister and I shal not so soone agree VVhat the rule of faith is or vvas in old tyme. but yet first of all that it cannot be onlie Scripture is euident by his owne speach and confession in this place Pag 19. where he sayth that his people of England do professe the Doctrine of Christ Iesus according to that rule that was established by common consent of the Churche of England from which rule sayth he if any digresse they are none of our societie â—o more then Papists By which words is euident that his rule consisteth of the consent and establishment of certayne men in England what to belieue which is a different matter from scriptures though they wil say perhaps that in this establishment they folowed Scriptures as wil also the Puritanes and others that heere are excluded by this established rule And besyds this confession of O. E. himselfe there are many other conuincing reasons that this rule named by the Apostles was not â—cripture and among other this that eyther â—one or very litle of the newe Testament was written when this rule of fayth was published â—or no vse and practise among Christians as â—ppeareth by the often repetition therof made â—y the same Apostles afterward when they â—ame to write Wel then not to be longer for so much as this rule could not be onlie scripture the best way perhaps to vnderstaÌ„d what it was and is at this day wil be to heare some of the ancieÌ„t Fathers describe the same Holy Ignatius writing to the same Churche that S. Paul did a litle before cyted to wit Phil. 3. Igâ— â— epist. 〈◊〉 Philippenses to the Philippenses sayth id ipsum dicatis omnes idem sentientes in hoc ipso fidei regulas praeceptáque seruaui sicut Paulus erudâ—ens nâ—s dicit Do yow say and teach the selfe same and be of one iudgment for by this haue I obserued the rules of fayth as Paul instructing vs sayd Lo heere the iudgment of Ignatius who affirmeth him-selfe to haue obserued the rule of fayth for that he said and taught that which all said and taught and thought that which all thought and folowed no singularitie eyther of his owne or others Irenaeus calleth this rule the order of traditioâ— from the Apostles tyme to his Iren. aduers. haeres lib. 2. cap 3 4. The great estimation of â—he old rule of faith by which he sayth that all heretikes are conuinced in such sorte that Catholykes shut vp their eares as soone as they heare them speake contrarie to the said rule of vniuersal fayth deliuered by tradition from age to age Iren. ibid. Traditionem Apostolorum fayth he in toto mundo manifestatam in omni Ecclesia adeâ—â— perspicere omnibus qui vera velint audire c. We may see the tradition of the Apostles in euery Churche if we wil heare the truth and we can number those Bishops that were instituted by the Apostles and their successors vnto our dayes who taught not that which these heretikes dreame c. Thus said he accompting this rule to be the whole tradition of our Ancestors coÌ„ming downe by succession of Bishops and Pastors Terâ— lib. de praescript contr haeret cap. 27. To whom agreeth Tertullian presentlie after him calling this rule the fulnesse of the Apostles preaching si ergo incredibile est sayth he ignorasse Apostolos plenitudinem praedicationis vel omnem ordinem regulae omnibus non edidisse c. if it be incredible that the Apostles did not know the fulnes of the preaching of the ghospel or that they did not deliuer vnto all Christians all the order of the rule of beliefe c. And the same man in an other place Tert.
and suche other like vsed among vs can not be a hinderaÌ„ce to knowlege as the K t. would seme to affirme but rather a furtherance for that otherwise why hath Ihon Foxe so many pictures and payntings in his book but to teache men therby the contents of his writings But consider reader here as before I haue sayd the substance of heretical answering which runneth vp and downe neuer commeth to the purpose Hath not the warder offred our watchman fayre and frendly that whereas he hath affirmed written published in print that it is a Maxime among vs rule infallible that ignorance is the mother of deuotion we are content that he proue it only a Minime And where as for proof of the former he was bound to shew that all Catholike wryters or the most part of them auouched it we are content to accept the woord or testimony of any one Cath. author learned or vnlearned that euer wrote or printed such a position And is not S r. F. then with his whole presbyterie of ministers maruelously shamed yf they bring not forthe some one suche wryter Impertinent dealing of our aduersaries Can a more easie or indulgent satisfaction be required of so rigorous a charge wel what then do they After running hither thither and telling vs a tale how Pâ—us Quintus went on foot for edifying the people as much apperteyning to this matter as the steeple of CaÌ„terbury to the Church-yard of Paules they come out at length with this proofe I say thâ—â— Doctor Fulke doth iustly charge your Rhemists with this old impudent proposition VVast pag. 6â— that ignorance of the scriptures is the mother of deuotion for what meant els their so strickt forbidding to Laymen the reading of scriptures in the vulgar tonge Loe here a witnes a reason againe repeated of this Maximè To the witnes the answere is quickly made Aske my fellow whether I be a theef The reason being ridiculous and refuted before bringeth a new forged assertion with yt that laymen are by name stricktly forbidden the reading of scriptures which is as shamles as the former yf he meane it generally of all lay men as the woords doe stand and consequentlie noe lesse impossible for Sir Frauncis to shew out of any Cath. A nevv false position brought foorâ—h by the knight Author liuing or dead then the former position of Ignorance to be the mother or daughter of deuotion And besydes it is apparantly ridiculous to very chyldren who see how many laymen are learned and reade scriptures daylie and some laymen haue wrytten also commentaries vpon the scriptures So as to be a layman bringeth noe impediment in it self to reade Scriptures Wherfore after this he runneth to an impertinent excursion by iesting at our distinction of Fides implicita explicita Pag. 49. The controuersy about fides implicita explicita Hence saith he hath growen your deuise of fides implicita a faith wrapped foulded vnder the obedience of the Church namely that it is sufficient though they know not distinctly what they ougâ—t to beleue but obediently submit their vnderstauding to the Churche beleuing as the Churche beleueth though what the Churche beleueth they know not This Carbonaria â—ides or Colliars faith is highlie commended by Card. Hosius c. Thus wryteth the K t. and as for the later part of this assertion coÌ„cerning Card. Hosius we shal handle yt a litle after when we come to coople with the Minister O. E. shewing how egregriously he abuseth both Card. Hosius his reader in this point But for the former about the distinction it self of fides explicita and implicita we must handle a litle here with our K t. aduertising first the reader that by fides explicita we meane a cleare distinct and particular faith or belief of any article point or parcel of Christian Religion and by fides implicita we meane a more darck secret or hiddeÌ„ faith implied as it were or wrapped to vse S r. F. woord in the belief of an other more general poynt which includeth this As for example in the article of Christs incarnation we do beleue clerely and distinctly not only that the sonne of God was made flesh for vs but further also in particuler that in two distinct natures there was but one person and yet not one wil only but two distinst wils the like and this is fides explicita But some other men that are not bownd to know 〈◊〉 these and other particularities be ongâ—â—ng to Christâ— an faith in these and other misteries may beleue the same things per fidem implicitum by an implâ—ed faith to wit by beâ—euâ—ng in general that the Sonne of God was maâ—e flesh for our redemption and moreouer beleuing whatsoeuer other points Gods holie Churche teacheth deduceth or beleueth in this behalf albeit they do not clerelie know them or vnderstand them in perticuler And this is so necessarie a point of doctrine for the saluatioÌ„ of the common sort of people as yf we take it away as Sectaries doe who vnderstand it not it must needs follow that thowsands yea millions of Christians must perish for lack of fayth The necessytie of â—ides implicita for saluation of the common sort of Christians seing the whole first Councel of Nice set downe this dreadful foundation as appeareth in the creed of S. Athanasius that it is necessarie for him that â—il be saued to hold the whole Cath. faith which yf any man doe not he must perish eternally wherof must needs be inferred that for so muche as the far greater parte of Christians do not know or vnderstand the forsaid pointes of faith and manie more belonging to many misteries of Christian Religion and consequently can not beleue them but only by fides implicita as hath byn shewed it followeth I say that if we take away the truth and vse of fides implicita which euer hitherto the Cath. Churche hath taught yow must needs teache desperation and damnation to the vnlearned sort that eyther for lack of tyme capacitie learning and other such lets can not come to know and beleue all particulars belonging to a Christian set downe in bookes or handled by learned men but content only with the cleere and distinct beleef of such articles as are most needful and important do beleue the rest fide implicita that is by the implied faith of the Churche Wherfore how so euer this distinction of fides explicita and implicita may trouble the vnlearned Sectaries of our tyme and giue them occasion to iest at that they vnderstand not as S r. F. doth here yet the thing it self is most euidently true and necessary and the same distinction in other woords is set downe by S. Augustine where he speaketh of the differens of the faith of holie men vnder the old testament he not being able otherwise to defend the position of S. Paule and other Apostles affirming the old good Iewes to
the king yow would obey him were not this a wise argument trow yow but now the second is as wise as this Boniface the eight saith he maketh subiection to the Pope to be a matter of Saluation Suppose he do seing that to obey or disobey our Superiors is a matter of saluation or daÌ„natioÌ„ by S. Paules expresse words Rom. 13. But what is this to blasphemies But heare his thyrd argument Bellarmine saith he maketh it an essential point of a Catholike to be vnder the Pope This also we graunt But what inference can be made of this It followeth further And such trust haue Papists in his iudgment concerning matters of faith that they think he cannot be deceaued This also we 〈…〉 it of error 〈…〉 that it 〈…〉 power 〈…〉 his Churche 〈…〉 assistance of 〈…〉 seing Christ 〈…〉 able to preforme it we 〈…〉 is this also to blasphemy He addeth further Cap. 17. Pag. 54. Nay if he once 〈◊〉 or determine any thing they count it no better then sacriledge to dispute of his doings This is exaggerated for we cal it not sacrilege but pryde rather disobedience malepartnesse and other lyke sinnes for inferiors lightly to dispute or examine the doyngs of their Superiors which among Protestants perhaps is held for a commendation and quicknesse of wit for so this minister determineth the matter presently after Ibid. saying VVe are not to beleeue euery thing our Pastors teach but as farre as they teach the doctrine of Christ Iesus nor are we absolutely to obey but when they commaund according to the law But who shal heer be iudge or who seeth not that this is a most absurd circle opening the way to all wraÌ„gling dispute and disobedience An absurd proposition about obedience nothing being attributed heer more to the iudgment and authority of Superiors then to the most vnquiet spirits and dissentious heads of any inferior whatsoeuer And finally wholy to disgrace our obedieÌ„ce to the Pope he bringeth in that former famous sentence cited by Syr Francis before and now 〈…〉 all his 〈…〉 Pope should 〈…〉 an must say 〈…〉 why do yow 〈…〉 the Pope 〈…〉 for proof of 〈…〉 margeÌ„t out of 〈…〉 si Papa distinct 40. which 〈…〉 haue heard omitted to quote 〈…〉 â—nd so had this man done more wisely in my opinion if he had followed the other example 〈…〉 any Popes doings and not shamed them both by noting the place where their false shifting might be discouered as now it is lyke to be For vnderstanding wherof we are first to note that the foresaid sixt Chapter of the decretal cyted by him which beginneth Dâ—cret Part. 1. dist 40. c. 6. si Papa suae fraternae salutis negligens deprehenditur c. yf the Pope be found negligent of his owne saluation and of the saluation of his brethren c. The sentence of S. Boniface an English man This whole chapter or Canon I say is taken out of the words and so it is noted in he decretal it self of S. Boniface an Englishman before called Winfrid first Archbishop in tymes past of Moguntia Apostle of Germany finally a most holy Martyr who liued vnder Ethelbald King of the Mercians to whome his most Christian wrytings are extant about the yeare of Christ 720. Se Iohn Stovv in his Chron. Pag. â—5 an 718. And the whole purpose of this Chapter or Canon tendeth to shew the imminent danger of euerlasting damnation to Popes aboue other men if they liue not carefully according to their State and degree and this sheweth 〈…〉 which is this 〈…〉 fraternae salutis est ne 〈…〉 that neglecteth 〈…〉 And then 〈…〉 is set downe in 〈…〉 biles populos caterua◠〈…〉 gehennae cum ipso 〈…〉 For that an euil Pope doth 〈…〉 immunerable people by multitudes 〈…〉 with himself the cheefest bondslane of herâ— there to be punished with him euerlastingly with many strypes Behold heer the Pope nothing at all flattered by S. Boniface in this Canon Playne speech of S. Boniface to all Popes which Protestants do cite for most high flattery towards him And if all Canonists or Popes themselues did loue flattery so much as this minister and his mates do make them they would neuer haue suffered this playne speech to haue byn registred for a Canon of Ecclesiastical decrees to be seene and read by all the world to all posterity As neyther would they permit the bookes of S. Bernard de Consideratione ad Eugenium Papam wherin he putteth both that and all other Popes in due considerations of their owne defects which are willingly read by Protestants But yet togeather with this playnesse doth this holy martyr S. Boniface as also the other deuout Father S. Bernard acknowledge the Popes prerogatiue also of not being subiect to any mortal maÌ„nes iudgmeÌ„t in this world except in matter of apostasie from 〈…〉 culpas â—stic 〈…〉 llus quta cunctos ipse 〈…〉 dus nisi deprehendatur 〈…〉 may presume to 〈…〉 opes faults in this 〈…〉 to erre in faith for 〈…〉 iudge all other meÌ„ 〈…〉 no man but by God 〈…〉 â—nd this is all that heer is said of this matter which doctrine about the Popes immunity from iudgment in this lyfe cannot in reason mislike Protestants seing many of them and other their freÌ„des in their books do grant thesame priuiledge to euery temporal prince in his owne dominion making him so absolute both in temporal and spiritual affayres See tvvo books of Bellay named Apologies in â—rench as he may not be iudged by any mortal man but only by God himself And albeit our aduersaryes do bestirre themselues to inferre further vpon vs heer then this partly by the word redarguere vsed by S boniface partly by the sentence foysted in by themselues that no man may say why do yow so wher-vpon they do inferre that we make the Pope not only free from being iudged or condemned but also from being so much as reprehended by any in this lyfe Yet this is manifestly shewed to be false as wel by the greuous reprehension vsed heere to all euil Popes by S. Boniface himself calling them the cheef bondslaâ—es of hel and by the many like reproofes vsed to thesame effect by the fornamed holy man S. Bernard in his books of 〈…〉 of the ordinary 〈…〉 these Bonifacius martyr 〈…〉 possit iudicars si mu 〈…〉 operibus suis cum 〈…〉 similiter multos 〈…〉 non cùm debeat omn 〈…〉 prehendatur pro cuius 〈…〉 cum ipse 〈…〉 post Deum vniuersitas fidelium instantius ore◠〈◊〉 niface the martyr was demanded whether tâ—â— Pope might be called to iudgment by any maÌ„ yf he were found negligent and remisse in his office seing that such a one not only did hurt himself alone but all his subiects in like maner and did draw many with him to perdition VVhat is to be don to euil Popes Whervnto the martyr answered no for that he hath to iudge all others except
lib. 2. de diuini efficijs Isydorus a Spanyard testifieth for Spayne almost a thousand yeares past that the Churche seruice in his tyme was there in Latyn Conc. 4. Tolet cap. 2.11.13.14 And the fourth councel of Tolet about thesame tyme testifieth the same And for FraÌ„ce testifieth thesame our great learned Englishman Alcuinus M. Alcuin li. de diu offic of Charles the great about the yeare of Christ 840. Bede lib. 1. hist. Angl. cap. 1. And for EnglaÌ„d testifieth Beede before him as after shal be shewed and no man can doubt but that S. Augustine our first Apostle brought in our first seruice from Rome in Latyn Raban lib. 2. de instituâ— clericorum Rupert lib c. de diâ—inis offâ—â—â—js And for Germany testifieth Rabanus Archb. of Moguntia aboue 700. yeares past and Rupertus Abbas some ages after him agayne And the same might be shewed particulerlie of all other particuler countryes by ancient Authors of the same nations and tymes Wherfore if the rule of S. Augustine often by him repeated be true Aug. lib. 4. contra Donatist cap 24. which is that when anything is found generally obserued in the Catholike Churche and no beginning to be found therof that this cometh most certaynlie from the Apostles by tradition And if his other senteÌ„ce be also true Aug. epist. 13â— where he sayth disputare contra id quod vniuersa Ecclesia facit insolentissimae insaniae est It is a poynt of most insolent madnes to dispute against that which the vniuersale Churche doth practise If this I say be true and that the general practise of the Christian world be euident in this behalfe for vsing one of these 3. learned tongues onlie in publique seruice publique vse of scriptures what shal we say of the insolency or madnes of S r. F. his fellowes that not onlie wil dispute and pratle against this practise and custome of the vniuersal Churche but also wil make the breach therof a peculiar blessing whereas notwithstanding those that passe from country to country do find the seruice in particular vulgar languages which they vnderstaÌ„d nothing at all must needs accompt it rather for a curse then a blessing to haue it in those vtterlie vnknowne vulgar laÌ„guages seing that euery man lightlie vnderstandeth somewhat of the Latyn eyther by learning or vse because it is comon to all and taught in euery countrie but not so of euery vulgar language out of the contrey where it is natiue this much of this first poynt or part of my answere THE SECOND PART of the answer about Churche seruice in English conteyning some authorityes aleaged for it but much corrupted and abused by the knight CAP. IX BVT now remayneth the second part which is to examine what the K t. bringeth for proofe of this imagined blessing And first he alleadgeth and vrgeth much the Authorite of S. Hierome who said of his tyme as this man cyteth him that Tota Ecclesia instar toniâ—rui reboat Hieron prol lib. 2. in comâ—â—t in Gal. Amen the whole Churche like a thunder did sound out Amen by which words he would inferre that therfore the publike seruice was in vulgar tongues in S. Hierome tyme but marke good reader by this one example yf there were no more the fraudulent manner of these mens aleadging Fathers For first this speach of S. Hierome is of the Churche of Rome as after shal be proued where no man can doubt but that the seruice was in Latyn and consequentlie the example is euel brought to proue seruice in a vulgar language and secondlie it is no maruayle though the people sounded out Amen in Rome where most men vnderstood the Latyn tongue and those that did not yet might they easelie vnderstand by vse what the word Amen signifyeth and when it is to be vsed And I would aske of our K. whether our Churche also in England where yet the Latyn tongue is not so common as in Rome did not sound out Amen in Queene Maryes dayes and other Catholike tymeâ— in the masse and other seruice when it was in Latynâ— Wil any deny this but eyther an ignorant or impudent man Let him go but ouer sea to Paris where the vulgar tongue is French and heare what the Catholike people do sound out in the publike seruice though it be not in their vulgar language Beed lib. 1. hist. Angl. ca. â— 20. Let him read S. Beed aboue 800. yeares agone who wryting of our Churche of England shewing first that the vse of publike seruice in his dayes was in the Latyn tongue as afterward is proued more at large rehearseth a notable storie Enc. 2. cap. 4. how S. Germanus S. Lupus freÌ„ch Catholike Bishops called in by Catholike Britanes against heretikes did set forth a certayne army against the Pelagians and other Infidels and gat the victorie by repeating the word Alleluâ—a sounded out like a thunder as he sayth by all the Catholike army And yet I do not thinke that S. F. wil go about to proue by this Argument that all that Army vnderstood the Latâ—n tongue or els the hebrue for that Alleluia is an hebrue word and no moâ—e doth it proue that the Roman Churche had their seruice in a vulgar tongue vnderstood by all for that they sounded out Amen and so much of this But now we are further to consider of a notorious fraud of the K. False dealing in alleadging S. Hierome in this place for that as he his do neuer lightlie aleadge any Father or Doctor for their purpose without some shâ—fte or imposture the Fathers being wholie and euery where against them so here S. Hieromes text whole discourse being quite contrary to him he durst not aleadge the whole sentence but culled out the words aleadged and framed them to his purpose Tota Ecclesiae instar tonitrui reboat Amen which words stand not in S. Hierome as he alleadgeth them but are altered and patched vp by him to make them seeme in his fauour leauing out craftilie both that which goeth immediatlie before presentlie doth follow for that they made against him and his whoâ—e cause of protestants religion which here I shal explayne S. Hierome in his proâ—me cyted of his second book vpoÌ„ the Epistle to the Galathians cited here by the knight taketh an occasion to shew vnto the two Virgines Paula and Eustochium to whom he dedicated his book why S. Paul in his Epistle to the Romanes praysed so much their faith Rom. 16. His words in latyn are these S. Hieron proemio lib. 2 comment ad Gal. Romanae plebis laudatur sides vbi alibi tanto sâ—udio frequentia ad Ecclesias ad martyrum sepulchra concurritur Vbi sic ad similitudinem caelestiâ— toniâ—rui Amen reboat The fayth of the people of Rome is praysed by the Apostle For where in any other place of the world do the people runne with so great