Scripture and Gentiles learned in Philosophy did labour to suppresse Christianitie and to disproue and discredit these miracles by which it was confirmed and proued to be diuine On the other side were the Christians persecuted and molested for this doctrine and to be depriued of their goods honours libertie countrey and liues Both sides did examine earnestly the truth of things the one because they would suppresse the Religion begining to spred it self the other because it did concerne their liues and further their eternall estate The memorie of things was fresh and both sides were present vnto the tyme and place A more eager inquisitiō a greater cause there was neuer any You knowe the issue The poore fisher-mē did preuaile There were innumerable and among them as wise men as greate Schollers as the world had euer any gaue their liues in testimony of the truth Our aduersaries were confounded Miracles still encreased The world became Christian and still continueth so He that notwithstanding all this will not beleeue those things were donne and that indeede they were miracles is constrained to see a miracle strange without example before his owne eies He sees that now the world beleeues the obscure Christian Creede persuaded thereunto by a fewe poore cōtemned and vnlettered fisher-men Reade S. Aug. de ciuit l. 22. c. 5 this miracle effected by fishermen they must see whith their eies and therefore vnles they will denie that which with their owne eies they see they must graunt that those poore men could and haue donne a miracle 48. If at the tyme when the Apostles did receaue their commission to teach the world a man should haue demāded whether those fishermen were euer like to bring to passe this greate worke which wee see with our eies now that is whether they were like to make the World Christian it would haue bene thought incredible vnpossible Considering the hardnes and obscuritie of the Doctrine they were to preach the Learning of the Philosophers with whom they not brought vp in Schooles were to encounter the diuersitie of iudgmēt in the world in things farre more intelligible no Master hauing euer beene able to winne so many followers in things more cleere considering allso the sundry conditions lawes customes formes of gouerment in the World which before was neuer brought vnder ONE COMMON RVLE or lawe by any man and especially if the violent Oppositions of Princes Emperours and the World in commō had beene foreseene Since therefore this greate worke incredible and vnpossible in mans iudgment is effected as wee see and by those simple men by the Disciples of Iesus it is euident that a supernaturall and diuine power did worke by them You know that Plato one of the Witts of the World was long about a Common wealth and could neuer make it any where but in his minde Philosophie hath beene labouring many thousand yeeres to vnite all vnderstandings in the grounds of Nature cleere in thē selues and within the compasse of mans witte but with all her Schooles she cannot effect her purpose the lōger she teacheth the more men disagree The Arabian Impostor to winne the people laid open a wide path towards a sensuall Paradise tempering his Religion to the popular taste and lest any thing should hinder his diffusiō gotte the Turkish sword to make his waie No maruaile then if there be many in that sinke either willinglie descending to the sense or tumbled downe by force The Fisher-mē hauing neuer heard Philosophy speake out of her pulpit were to make the Schooles beleeue a darke obscure Creede being vnarmed they were to meete the Sword They had no sooner begunne their taske but mens hāds were full of bookes against their doctrine and the world in horrour affrighted with the tormēts prouided for their Schollers Yet vnlerned and vnarmed as they were notwithstanding the violent oppositions of sensualitie Power ād Hell it self they haue brought their Creede ād discipline Posteritie being astonished at the euent into Nations into Courts into the whole World and so powerfully that it hath bē vniuersallie diffused these sixteene hundred yeeres And heereby haue raised a Church vnto their Master Iesus Christ greater thē all the Societies all States all Kingdomes all Monarchies that euer were before 49. I haue now donne what I intented in this place onelie because the thing I speake of is a Church let me a little looke vppon it in that forme The house of God you knowe is founded in faith raised by hope couered with charitie Faith is the foundation the walls Hope and Charitie is the roofe In faith the Apostles were eminent as being Masters of Christianitie and are therefore Mountaines whereon the rest of the Church doth stand according to the Prophetie Isa 2. In the later daies the Mountaine the house of our Lord shall be prepared in the toppe of moūtaines They were eminent in sāctitie likewise whereuppō another Prophetie Psal 86. The foundations thereof in the holie Mountaines And what the Apostles taught the Prophets as being eleuated aboue others with whom they liued to see things farre of did foretell and after their manner also teach so as they come in within the cōpasse of the Foundation too wherefore the Apostle in his Epistle to the Ephesiās You saith he are citizēs of the Saincts Ephes 2. and the domesticalles of God built vppō the Foūdation of the Apostles and Prophets Iesus Christ himselfe being the highest corner stone in whom the building framed together groweth vnto an holie Temple in our Lord in whom you are also built together into an habitatiō of God in the holie Ghost These Apostles and Prophets doe relie vppon Iesus Christ a MOVNTAINE in regard of his knowledge Power and Sanctitie wherein as mā he doth excell men and Angells all together and as God he is infinite in each of them On him beīg the prime Veritie ād the increated Word of God the Father profound in all kinde of perfection immoueable and eternall the Catholique Church doth stand On him the Apostles on the Apostles Christian men are built as liuing stones held togeather by Cōmunion ād raised vp by strōge Hope towards heauen to the very sight of God Be yee quoth S. Peeter superedified as it were liuing stones spirituall houses In the golden roofe 1. Pet 2. millions of Sainctes do shine ād giue light to the edificatiō of others The Pillars are the Pastors who strongly support the Building and are wōderfullie disposed in Order Hierarchicall according to the forme of that which is in the Angelicall Church in heauen In these Pillars all the Vertues are aliue The Dore of this Temple knowne generallie by the name of Baptisme is open to all parts of the world ād infinite do enter washed cleane as they come in So the Prophet In that day shall be a Fountaine lying open to the house of Dauid Zach. 13. vnto the Inhabitants of Ierusalem for the ablution of the Sinner This water taketh away the spottes
togeather from all places to discusse and to determine Is he moued with Antiquity the Reuerence of elder times is all with vs heere are Gregories and ChrysostoÌ„s and Augustines and Basils and Ephrems and Cyrills and Cyprians and Iustines and others innumerable Is he moued by Gods word it is flatly and vnansweareably on our side Atheists children can answere they erre so grosly against the light of nature The Iewes are forced to see with their owne eies the Prophecies of the Messias and his Kingdome fullfilled in Iesus Christ and his Church And this Church to be the Catholique yeauen that which is now and hath ben euer in the Communion of the Roman See is so cleere that denying of it all Histories all Bookes all Monuments all Memorie must be denied and nothing be confessed for true which euer yet hath beene on earth Denying of it you may allso denie that there was euer Iewish Nation or Roman Emperour or Heathen Idol you may as well deny that Rome Constantinople London are or euer were THE SIXT CHAPTER What meant by a Catholique 52. BEfore I goe on to your Obiections because the place is verie fitte and the thing necessarie to be obserued and borne in minde I will tell you what I meane by a Catholicke which question is here answeared without difficultie You haue seene the Catholique Church that is the congregation of Christians in communion at all tymes with the See of Rome by a Catholique man I meane one who beleeues the Creede of this Church one of this comunion aÌ„d euerie one which did heretofore embrace this communion was a Catholique so long as he did embrace it and died a Catholique if he died in it In the communion with this Church is included a Vnion with it which vnion is founded in a conformitie or vniformitie of faith and iudgment in diuine matters And this was in all those who did resolue their beleefe into the proposition or iudgment of this Church For he who submittes his iudgment whollie to the Church and beleeues as she telles him readie to beleeue more if she declare her selfe more fullie and to condemne all doctrine which she coÌ„demnes is vndiuided from the Church in iudgment and therefore vniforme 53. Hence it comes also that not onelie those who liued at one tyme were of our communion but such also as liued in diuers ages because the following age did receaue the doctrine and generall decrees of the precedeÌ„t beleeuing all which was then by the Church beleeued and condemning such opinions as they condemned By this meanes wee doe also communicate with them all as perfectlie in the disposition of our soule and redines of our vnderstanding as if wee had liued with them HeÌ„ce it is that wee admitte all the Councelles that were generallie receaued by the Church in their tyme and are sufficientlie moued therunto by the iudgmeÌ„t of the Church which then receaued them For wee resolue our iudgment into the iudgment of the Church and that is our rule vnder God who is the prime rule and highest Obiect of our faith You will be readie to make an other vse of some part of this discourse but you cannot for you make your owne choise of that which you beleeue and doe not submitte your iudgment to the iudgment of Gods Church Wee acknowledge diuine assistance in Church-proposition as I haue said before and this doth euery Catholique which is the reason why wee are all of one religion though wee liue at seuerall tymes Out of this comes the Catholique Vnion or vnitie which is most ample reaching into all Nations and through all tymes which kind of vnitie depending on the Churches mouth as on a subordinate cause and rule but principallie on the all-teaching Spiritte directing to reuealed veâ—ities as on an infinite and immoueable principle as hereafter I will shew is peculiar to the Church of God Aske any man of our religion on whose iudgment he relies in matters of faith and he will answeare that he relies on the iudgment of the Church and if you aske further on whom the whole Church of this age hath dependence for exterior proposition of matters of faith I answeare that this whole age resolues it selfe into the precedent age and that into the precedent and so vpwardes to the first which age did resolue it selfe into the Apostle proposition and they resolued their faith into the proposition of our Sauiour who came into the world to this purpose and he Cour Sauiour being the naturall sonne of God did cleerlie behould all truth with an infinite vnderstanding And there staies the resolution hauing made a full compasse and returned thether where this veritie first was For all truth is first in the diuine vnderstanding and thence reuealed manie wayes as it hath pleased that originall goodnes the eternall Father as by prophettes in ould tyme and after by his Sonne Iesus Christ who did instruct his Church and bequeathed an euerlasting assistance to beare in minde and to deliuer truelie this lesson to future ages Hence it came that this instruction or word which he put into her mouth hath not yet gotte out of it nor will to the worldes end 54 I had made a full point and was going on to the next Chapter but I remembred with whom I am now againe dealing and that I am to repeate the same things ouer more then once hauing for the same reason also contented my selfe with verie few things among infinite which might be said for our cause My chiefe intention therefore in this second booke was onelie to declare which companie of people in all the world is the Church Catholique or the Church answearing to Gods eternall decree declared by the Prophets And I haue prooued it to be that companie which is and hath bene euer in the coÌ„munion of the See of Rome This coÌ„panie of Beleeuers is the Church described in Gods word and no other companie distinct from this whatsoeuer it be is the Church there described In the proofe of this I haue taken such grouÌ„ds as are vndeniable as the knowne coÌ„munion of Nations the like being no where found the Testimonie of worlds of people the Confession of the most learned Aduersaries that wee haue or euer had since Luther came The Euidence of generall Councelles and the knowne Opposition of all confessed Heretiques in all tymes to this Church and to no other These grounds or arguments I take so farre only as they are manifestlie vndeniable and no further and to prooue that which your owne fellowes and your Masters doe yeeld vnto aÌ„d though most vnwillinglie haue confessed in their books That is I take them to declare that the Church in communion with the See of Rome is and hath bene euer the Church described by the Prophets and that no other answearable to that description is any where els to be found VVhen you answeare this Booke I will haue no other thing answeared in this place but this Keepe the question all
one S. Cyrill heere doth speake of the other S. August tract 96. in Ioan. To helpe the ruder to the vnderstanding of this difference in the knowledge of the same things Suppose a man were borne and bred in a caue vnder groūd and there taught that aboue there be heauens sunne and starrs And afterwards brought out in a cleere night to behold the beautie of the firmament with the heauens immensitie In the day to see the Sunne illustrating all the world with his light This later knowledge of these things is cleere and perfect if you compare it with the former which he before at his being vnder ground where he saw no greater light then a poore candle had of them So is the Churches knowledge heere Heere belowe she is instrusted that in God there are three persons the Father the Sonne and the Holy Ghost and makes an vnperfect obscure conceipt of it but when she getts vp thither she shall behold God cleerely as he is in himself And so all the rest of the Mysteries which now she doth beleeue 37. The fourth waie is to saie that the place is to be limited to those truthes which are necessarie for the commō people But this holds not for what shall become of the learned who shall compound differences in religion condemne Heresies and repaire the faults of Schisme which teare the Church in peeces if the Spirits assistance doth it not In vaine doe you limit the words of God you are a man you are not God you cannot rule him ād pare of what you please from his promise his words import all not onelie whatsoeuer is necessarie for common people but all whatsoeuer he hath reuealed they are extended as farre as the necessities of the Church do require Againe it is one thing to determine how far this assistance is affoorded to this or that Christian in particular which liues in a Catholique countrie and in peace another thing it is to define how farre it is affoorded vnto the whole bodie of the Church 38. The last waie is to saie that this promise was to be performed onelie in the inuisible Church by teaching them priuatelie This is false For the Church whereūto this promise was made was the visible Church and God made it to no other The Apostles were visible And how could it be otherwise whē their noise went ouer all the world The companie of Christians in communion with them were visible Their Successors the Pastors of the Church were visible Their office of preaching of ministring the Sacramentes and gouerning Gods people did manifest their persons to the flocke The guifte of tongues of interpretation of working miracles and the like made the men and so the Church visible The predestinate needed visible instruction Rom. 10.14 for how should they beleeue vnles they heare saith the Apostle in this case and how should they heare without a preacher and a preacher you knowe is visible you see him you heare him you can point at him Now preachers deliuer not infalliblie such doctrine as the predestinate are to beleeue without assistance and therefore for the predestinate peoples sake it was all together necessarie to assist the Church in visible actes in preaching in deliuering true doctrine which is to assist the visible Church In fine the office of the Apostles and Pastors whose actes are in teaching and directing others and consequentlie visible actes could not be rightlie performed without Assistance which you confesse and our Sauiour intending the perfomance of those actes that so his Church beīg called by his word deliuered with the mouthes of mē might be gathered out of all Nations did leaue them that is the Apostles and their Successors to this end diuine Assistance and said the Paraclete whom the Father will send in my name he shall teach you all things Iohn 14. v 〈◊〉 16 〈◊〉 13. and suggest vnto you all he shall teach you all truth 39. The third place I am to inculcate for this Assistance containes the Testimonie of the vndeniable Christian Church acknowledging the receipt of it For if wee produce euidēce for the promise and this by couenāt and for the actuall sending and finallie for the receipt of this Assistance by such as confessedlie might doe it in the name of the whole Church the cause is wonne To proceed therfore to this part you will confesse that the Apostles were the true Church and that if they receaued this Assistance the Church receaued it and as they vnderstood the promise and beleeued it so wee are to vnderstād and to beleeue it Now it is most certaine that they receaued this Assistance and did not onelie beleeue that according to the promise of our Sauiour they had it infalliblie when they were to determine matters of Religion but they did further declare vnto Christians this Assistance and direction which they had ēioyed and did puhlishe it to be beleeued by the Church For the decree which after much dispute and inquisition they made in their generall meeting at Ierusalem they begin thus It hath seemed good to the holie Ghost and to vs. Acts 15. v. ◠affirming by these words plainlie and proposing allso to Christians to beleeue their publique act and decree to be the act and decree of the holie Ghost And if it were his allso then he with them made it assisting and directing them in the doing as our Sauiour had promised he should doe And herein the Apostles gaue example to their Successors to vnderstand our Sauiours promise so and to beleeue and doe so as they haue vnderstood it and beleeued and done The place is cleere The thing is vndeniable 40. As these Masters of Christianitie had vnderstood beleeued done assuring themselues and others of diuine assistance in their common definition and decree by reason of our Sauiours promise without any more adoe he being God and therfore meaning as he said and as good as his promise so did their successors vnderstand beleeue and doe in regard the promise was made foreuer And therfore they allso beleeued and assured others of diuine assistance in their common definition and decree by reason of the same promise This the pastors assembled in generall Councells haue done euer since and the Christian people in communion with these Councells haue beleeued it Those Christians which liued in the first age did beleeue that the Apostles had by vertue of our Sauiours promise diuine assistāce to propose and spred the Gospell and to teach rightlie the word of God and that they were therfore to be beleeued in all which by generall consent they did propose or wherein they did all agree so that the Predestinate ād all others might securelie beleeue as they taught and goe on towards heauen that way which they pointed out The Church in the second age did beleeue that the Church in the first age had the Assistance of the diuine spirit by vertue of the promise of Iesus Christ and therevppon beleeued allso that
the Church in later tymes did conforme her iudgment to the iudgment of the church in former tymes and esteeme it infalliblie This is true at all tymes from the Apostles to this daie therfore all the Church of all this tyme is against your affirmation and your affirmation against the Spirit of all this Church pastors and people 〈◊〉 and learned auncient and moderne 53. Fourthlie 4. Confir If all Christians be warranted by Iesus Christ the Sonne of God and true God to heaâ—e the Church and to 〈…〉 iudgment then is it vnpossible that the generall resolution of the Church in matter of faith though not fundamentall in your sense be false and coÌ„tradict the eternall truth because God being truth and goodnes obligeth not men to erre and to contradiction But all Christians are so warranted Luk. 10. v. 16. He which heareth you heareth me he which contemneth you contemneth me It is therfore vnpossible that the generall resolution of the Church in matter of faith though such as you call not fundamentall be false therfore it hath by Gods prouidence the assistance of the Spiritt of truth in euerie such generall resolution 54. Fiftlie If the whole Church theÌ„ all Bisshopes all Fathers though consenting all together aÌ„d teaching vniformely may haue erred in matters of faith which are not of your fundamentalles 5. Confir Whence it followes that whatsoeuer they haue said or beleeued or receaued aboue those fewe fundameÌ„talles may be false aÌ„d consequentlie nothing nothing at all in matter of faith is certaine but onelie those fewe fundamentalles Why then may not the rest of deuinitie yea all the rest of the scripture be false and why may not old damned heresies howsoeuer in the primitiue tyme abhorred be true If you offer to answere that you â—â—owe certainlie those things to be false and the rest of the scripture to be true I replie that you doe either pretend to know this by the spiritte and therby you admitte what before in your distinctioÌ„ you denied or you pretend to know it by your witte and then you entangle your selfe more in in the bryers for how will you make it euident that your witte cannot erre in these matters if all other wittes might haue erred 55. Hauing lighted here on the consideration of the fonde esteeme you haue of your owne witte aboue the world I begin to see that you affect a place farre aboue the qualitie of your person though this disorder in affection be in a manner secrette from your selfe You iudge and determine controuersies in matters not fundamentall as you speake and this men see aÌ„d your forwardnes herein hath enforced me to this answeare Now you take this office of determining these controuersies froÌ„ the Church as wee haue seene oft before aÌ„d if you would acknowledge it to be there I neede write no more of this matter This throne was high but you affect a higher yet which I shew for either in this matter of determining these controuersies you giue place to the Spiritt as to the iudge or you doe not if you doe the Spirittes holie assistance is exteÌ„ded further then to your fundamentalles if you doe not you sitte in the throne aÌ„d iudge for you determine them against vs. Let Christians tell me now whether you vsurpe the place or not 57. Sixtlie your errour is fuÌ„dameÌ„tall 6. Confirmâ— therfore the opposite which the Churche beleeue this a fundamentall truth And consequentlie in your prâ—ciples you must coÌ„fesse that she doth not erre in it for you say she erreth not in fuÌ„dameÌ„talls That your errour is fundameÌ„tall I prooue because that errour is fundamentall which is the ground of infinite errours but yours is the grouÌ„d of infinite errours because it takes away the certaiÌ„tie froÌ„ all Gods word and all deuinitie those fewe pointes onelie excepted which you call fundamentall 58. Moreouer to touch your fundamentalles also 7. Confirm It takes away all certaintie in them first because you leaue noe meanes to knowe which they be and secondlie because you leaue noe meanes to know they be diuinelie reuealed if it were knowne which in particular they al were for the authoritie of the Church proposeth equallie the whole Scripture and therfore if it sufficeth for any chapter or point it sufficeth for euery chapter and euerie point And the Spiritte of God did equallie direct the writer in all and it is Gods word all and therfore if the Spiritts direction or Gods authoritie serue to warrant some it serues to warrant all and if it be not able to warrant all it is vnable to warrant any at all 59. You thinke I haue done now but harke further Your assertion doth scandalize the Christian world if it may be scandalized for you take away all certaintie from the word of God in all pointes and partes but some twelue propositions which you call fundamentall 8. Confirm denying that there is at all any meanes to know certainlie that the rest is Gods word This I proue and I take the Gospell of S. Iohn or to declare it more fullie I take all the Bible and argue thus Either the Spiritte of God doth assist his Church to know certainlie that all in the Bible ouer and aboue your fuÌ„dameÌ„tall pointes is the word of God or it doth not Make your choise If it doth not there is no way to know certainely that it is the word of God for men of themselues and without Gods assistance all might erre especiallie in obscure matters as those are and in this especiallie which is to know whether God spake those wordes or noe If it doth the field is ours for euerie thing there is not one of the fundamentalles 60. The same argumente may be made of the sense of any place for either the place is fundamentall and such are fewe by your accompt or the place is not fundamentall and then excluding the assistance of the Spiritte you haue noe waie to be assured of the sense 61. Let vs oÌ„ to the triall of this argumeÌ„t OpeÌ„ your Bible turne to the first Chapter of Genesis and reade the first verse In the begining God created heaueÌ„ and earth Of this verse I demauÌ„d eight things First whether you be certaine that it is the word of God and how SecoÌ„dlie whether it be a fundamentall place or be not Thirdlie how you doe know certainlie that it is or that it is not fundamentall Fourthlie whether there be meanes to knowe certainlie the sense if neede require Fiftlie what are the meanes which may assure men of the sense Sixtlie whether there be any meanes to knowe certainlie whether in these words be more literall seÌ„ses theÌ„ one Seuenthlie whether the assistance of the Spiritte be or be not necessarie to the certaine knowledge or assurance of these things Eightlie whether this assistance be promised to the Church or to others out of it as to Heretiques and pagans These eight things I demaund about that verse and when you
noe Bishop in the Church euer yet was estemed or did pretende to be aboue the Roman Bishop since therefore S. Peeter was putte in charge of the flocke of Christ ād made Pastor of the Church ād since this office of generall Pastor doth remaine it followes that the Bishop of Rome is ād still was he because he is and euer was confessedlie the first Bishop in the Church Secondlie the Pope of Rome by your confession hath exercised the Office of Generall Pastor of the Church these thousād yeares ād by the Coūcells the same is cleere neither was there any other all this tyme who did exercise or take on him that Office not the Bisshop of Antioch nor of Constantinople for these Bisshops and the most ancient Councells as the Nicene Constantinopolitan and others did acknowledge Rome before those Sees Neither was the See without a Successor all this tyme as I haue shewed before because the Pastor and Foundation is necessarie to the Flocke and Building therefore the Roman was and is he 14. Thirdly the fathers of the aūciēt Church as S. Augustine sainct Ierom sainct Cyprian sainct Ireneus and others affirme cleerelie that the Roman Bisshop is sainct Peeters Successor S. Hieron ad Damas S. Aug. ep 162. S Cypr. ep 55. Optatus cont Donat l. 2. S. Iren. l. 3. c. 3. Tenet ista sancta sede gubernacula regendarum cunct orbis Ecclesiarum Theod. ep ad Ren p◠Ro. S. Leo ep 84. Sainct Ierom calles that See S. Peeters Chaire adding that the Church is built on that rocke sainct Augustine putts a Catalogue of the Bisshops there first Peeter then Linus c. and saith that the Principallitie of the Apostolicall Chaire hath euer flourished in the Church of Rome sainct Cyprian calles it allso sainct Peeters Chaire and the principall Church whence Priestlie vnitie hath come The like hath Optatus sainct Ireneus doth adde that for the more powerfull principalitie of that church it is necessarie that all Churches haue recourse vnto it That holie seate saith Theodorette holds the sterne of gouerning the Churches of all the world sainct Leo knewe this in practise but heare his words It is by great order prouided that all should not claime all things to themselues but in euery Prouince should be some who should haue the prime sentēce amonge the bretheren and againe others placed in greater Citties should vndergoe greater care by whom the care of the Vniuersall Church should come to the one seate of sainct Peeter Fourthlie this is the iudgment of the Church acknowledging in the Roman Bisshop authoritie and power to call to moderate and to approoue generall Councells and it is declared in the great Lateran Councell that the Roman Church hath by Gods disposition the principalitie of ordinarie power ouer all the Churches Conc. Lat. sub Innoc. 3. c. 5. And finallie both East and West haue defined it in the Councell of Florence Cōc Flor. defin Wee define say the Fathers there that the holie Apostolique See and Bisshop of Rome hath the Primacie ouer the whole world and that the Roman Bisshop is the Successor of Blessed Peeter Prince of the Apostles and the true Vicar of Christ and heade of the whole Church and Father and master of all Christians and that vnto him in S. Peeter is giuen by our Lord Iesus Christ full power to feede rule and gouerne the vniuersall Church The same both Armenian Aethiopiā Vide Cocc ◠1. l. 7. art 4. 5. 6. 7 8. Russite and Assiriā Christiās haue acknowledged So that for this Primacie of the See Apostolique wee haue the Fathers Testimonie Theologicall Arguments Definitions of Generall Councells and the Testimonie of the Spirit in them the worlds consent and Gods word THE THIRD CHAPTER The Bishop of Rome President in Generall Councells 15. YOur next pretense is that the Pope hath no title to be President in generall Councells or to call or approoue them though he hath practised these things now of late Before I answere to this argument to shewe more cleerelie wherein the force of it doth lie you are with me to obserue two things the first is that there are two kinds of calling a Councell One is Eclesiasticall in way and forme of ordination the other is Temporall in way of execution The Question is of the former which is prīcipall ād wee are in it to see whether any man in the world hath such authoritie to call a Councell so as the Bishops are in regard of that calling bound to come The second obseruation is that one may haue the place of President in his owne name or in the name and place of another to whom principallie it belongeth and this Presidencie may be either to some temporall end as to keepe exterior order and peace in the Congregation or to a spirituall end which is to iudge and define matters of beleefe and to establish Church discipline by decree The question is of this second kinde of Presidencie not of the first And who is principall in this kinde as hauing power to doe it either by himselfe or by his deputie whereunto notwithstanding your obiection I answeare that it is the Pope to whom belongs properlie to call moderate and approoue Generall Councells because he is aboue another Bishops and Successor to sainct Peeter in the gouerment of the whole Church Being aboue other Bishops and their Pastor he hath power to call and to commaund them to meete in Councell when the Generall Church-affaires doe require it which no Bysshop or Patriarke besides can doe none of them all being Superior to all the rest Neither cā the Emperour or any other secular Prince doe it not principallie because he is not Gouernour of the Church or Church busines nor subordinatelie if by some principall cause he chance to moued thereunto because his power is not extended to the latitude of the Church or ouer all Nations and all Bisshops whatsoeuer nor euer was So that his commaund vnto such men as were out of his Dominions were of no power to bringe them together more then the commaund of the kinge of Spaine or of the Spanish Bisshops would serue in France When the Bisshops are assembled the Pope still remaines as he was before their Pastor and their Foundation and there-their director their moderator and Presidēt And this the Generall Councell of Chalcedon did acknowledge in the Person of Leo whom they stiled their Father and their Heade and themselues his Sonnes and his Members 10. The Catholique Church allso did euer acknowledge in the Pope this right of Presidencie which I prooue by all the Generall Councells that euer yet haue bene For the later held in the West you freelie graunt it and if you did not the proofe were easie frō Trent Lions Florence and Rome it selfe Of the former held in Greece I prooue the same * Quibus tuquidem SICVT MEMBRIS CAPVT praeras in his qui tuum tenebant ordinem beneuolentiam praeferens
of S. Paul The chalice of benediction which wee do blesse is it not the communication of the bloud of Christ and the bread which wee breake is it not the participation of the body of our lord I answeare that our doctrine is not here denied but affirmed for the Apostle teacheth here importing withall by his manner of speach the doctrine to be so well and so commonly knowne that none can denie it he teacheth I say that the breade and the cuppe are the communication of the body and bloude of our lord The reason whereof is cleere because in those formes are exhibited reallie the body and the bloude of Christ Whereas in your sense there were no reall receauing giuing or participating of the body and bloud of Christ but of bakers breade and meere wine And therefore to the Apostle the Corinthians if they had bene of your Religion might haue answeared no it is not any communication participation or communion of bloude and flesh but of naturall meate and drinke If you stick at the word breade you are dull for the words annexed to it doe interprete fully what breade it is and before you haue the word applied and the sense of it inculcated in the Sixt of S. Iohn where our Sauiour saith the breade which I will giue is my flesh Io. 6. v. 51.32.58.48 my father giues you true bread from heauen I am the breade of life c. where I thinke you are not so seÌ„sles as to take the word breade for that which bakers make More ouer this flesh or body of Iesus Christ is in the forme of bread in the Church as it was allso in his owne haÌ„d wheÌ„ he gaue it uÌ„to his disciples aÌ„d therefore after the phrase of Scripture it is called breade Mar. 16. Act. 1. as Angells appearing in meÌ„s likenes are there called meÌ„ 30. Fourthlie whereas wee say that it is not necessary the publique seruice be said in the vulgar tongue You oppose those words of S. Paul If I pray in a tongue to wit 1. Cor. 14. v. 14. which I vnderstand not my Spirit prayeth but my minde is without fruite Answ The meaning is that I haue not in that case the benefit of profiting my soule or minde with contemplation of the thinge yet neuer the lesse my Spirit is eleuated and ascendeth vnto God which is the substance and essence of prayer and this is nothing against vs. You vrge againe if thou blesse in Spirit how shall he say amen which doth supplie the place of the vulgar v. 16. since he knoweth not what thou sayest Answ The meaning is if thou speake some praise of God the hearers not knowing whether it be good or bad he that supplies the place of the vulgar cannot say amen to it Neither is this against vs for our coÌ„mon prayers or liturgies are both knowne and approoued by the Church to whom this approbation doth belonge and this all do know and therefore the clarke or he that supplieth the place of vulgar may boudly sâ—â— Amen Moreouer the Apostle doth not censure as ill that blessing in Spirit which you do vrge but sayeth expresly that he doth giue thankes well which doth so v. 17. If you say the contrary theÌ„ you coÌ„tradict the scripture not wee De imputa iustitia nihil noruÌ„t VValdenses Luth. colâ—oq c. de Suermeris Coce l. 8. â— 4. 31. The fift place is to shewe by Scripture that iustifyiÌ„g faith is that speciall faith whereby you beleeue that your sinnes are all forgiuen and you iust by an extrinsecall imputation of the iustice inherent in Iesus Christ This which is the ground and soule of your Religion wee denie Your proofe is Abraham beleeued God and it was imputed vnto him to iustice Rom. 4.3 v. 16. And therefore of faith that according to grace the promise may be firme Answ This is nothing against vs nor for you for the question is of the Obiect of this faith whether it were the remission of sinnes to him that beleeued they were remitted as you interprete it From the 16. v. to the end or somthing els Reade further and you shall finde in the same Chapter that the Obiect or thing he beleeued was that God would make him the father of many Nations and that notwithstanding his owne age and the sterilitie of his wife God was able to performe this promise Of your Obiect there is not one word neither is it to be fouÌ„d any where in all the Bible The Obiect of Iustifying faith if you beleeue Scripture is the Incarnation the Passion Resurrection and other revealed Mysteries Who is he that ouercometh the world he that beleeueth that Iesus Christ is the sonne of God â— Io. 5. v. 5. Rom. 10.9 If thou confesse with thy mouth our lord Iesus and in thy hart beleeue that God hath raised him from the deade thou shalt be saued Without faith it is vnpossible to please God for Heb. 11.6 he that coÌ„meth to God must beleeue that he is and is a rewarder to them that seeke him This is the Obiect of iustifying faith and the second part you do not beleeue because it implieth a merite in the beleeuer 32. The sixt place is about communion of lay people in both kinds You would haue it a diuine precept for the lay people I admit a diuine precept for the Priests who do consecrate and denie that there is any such whereby the lay people are commanded to receaue the Sacrament in both kinds Your place is Drinke ye all of this Mat. 26.27 But this place doth not import a precept or commaund for the lay people to receaue the blood for the speach is not directed to the lay people but to the Apostles And the word all is referd to them and was verified by them This is manifest by the words of the Gospell He gaue to his Disciples and said take and eate ibid. v. 26.27.28 this is my body And taking the chalice he gaue thankes and gaue to them the same disciples saying drinke ye all of this for this is my bloode c. And S. Marke relating it saith and taking the chalice giuing thanks he gaue to them and they all dranke of it If all dranke of it theÌ„ by all the Apostles are meant onely for all men were not there neither haue all Christians drunke of it In this therefore you haue produced no diuine precept for all men in their owne persons to receaue the blood 33. The seaueÌ„th place is to prooue the Scripture to be iudge of CoÌ„trouersies aÌ„d sufficient of it selfe without helpe of TraditioÌ„ Wee hold the necessity of TraditioÌ„ too â— Tim. 3.16 The place is All scripture inspired of God is profitable to teach to argue to correct to instruct in iustice that the maÌ„ of God may be perfect instructed to euery good worke Answ This is not against vs wee graunt tath it is profitable Wee denie that it is