oure baptyme profyteth nothynge vnto such men as the scripture calleth lytel ones that is lowlye in sprete and haue the conditions of yōge chylder ye holde playnly against this open text of scripture Declaratio sermonum tuorum illuminat intellectum dat paruulis The declaration of thy wordes lyghteneth and giueth vnderstāding to the lytle ones whervpon we may gather that those that are not lytel ones but stubborne withstanders can haue no profyt by the declaration of Gods word much lesse by the seynge of men and wymen baptysed If ye mene that where as chylder are baptysed that nother the chylde hathe any profyt by the baptym and offeryng vp of it vnto Christ nother they that offer it vp nother they that see the baptime ministred take any profyt therby ye speke agaynst the scripture For the chylder get Christes blyssynge yf he loue chylder yet as wel as he had wont to do and the offerers bryngers of childer vnto christ in doyng of a good dede profyt for he that helpeth a man to receyue a good turne in helpyng doth profit in godlynes and namely they that pray to the lord eyther for the bodely or gostly health of theyr neyghbour Did not both the bringers of the children vnto Christ and the chylder profyt also before Christes passion Is he wexed vngentler after his passion then he was before The chyrche at the baptisinge of chylder prayeth vnto God for the childe that it maye haue forgiuenisse of synnes and receyue the holy goste wyl God breke his promysse that he made vnto his churche Quicquid peticritis patrem in nomine meo dabit uobis What soeuer ye shal are my father in my name he wyll geue it The father and mother with the hole chyrche prayeth for the yonge chylde at the baptisyng of it other they profyt or God is false but he is true therefore ye ar a lyer whiche saye that where as chylder are baptised that nother the chylde nor any that ar there at the baptim and offer the chyld vnto Christe with theyr prayers profyt any thynge at al. What more profyt shal the seers of the baptym of men and wemen take thereby then the seers of the baptime of chyldern Seyng that all that is doone to olde folke is also doone vnto chylder the word of GOD as well al red and preched at childers baptim as at old folkes baptime they that are at the baptisyng of chylder profyt as muche as they that are at olde folkes baptym Where as the sygnes and Sacramentes are al one the worde of GOD is alyke preached there cometh vnto the herers and seers lyke profyt except GOD be a regarder of persons and be better vnto olde men then vnto chyldern whyles he graunteth profyt and grace to the seers of olde folkes baptyme and none at all to the seers of chylders baptyme but God regardeth no persons therfore ther is lyke profyt in seing of other of both Of lyke thyngs ought to be lyke iugement then when as baptym is all one in signification wyth cyrcumcysion and they that see chylder cyrcumcised haue as muche profyt by the seing therof as of the seing of old folke circumcised so the seers of the baptyme of chylder haue as muche profyt thereby as the seers of the baptyme of olde folke In the beginning of your boke ye saide that I rehersed the .iiij. tymes redyng of statutes in colledges to proue that yoing specheles childer might and ought to be baptysed whiche sayinge howe false lying it was I haue sufficientlye proued And nowe lyke a deuyll that for hys purpose turnethe hym selfe into all colours and figures here ye say that I applie the costom of readyng of the scolars statutes that infātes shuld haue the declaration of baptym preached vnto them These are your wordes ☞ Therfore to rede the statutes to infantes is of no exemple nor value but to them that be growen it is an occasion to get scolers ¶ Couche of thy conscyence yf thou haste any at all tell me whether thou knoweste in thy conscience or no that I rehersed and applied the reading of scolares statutes vnto the baptysyng of yong chyldern or that specheles chylder shoulde haue baptyme opened vnto thē by preachynge or els that I brought that custome furth in very deede to shew them that were my hearers amonge the which was not one specheles childe that it were as necessary for them to haue theyr baptime opened and declared by preachyng as it was necessarye for scolars to haue theyr statutes at certayn tymes to be redde among them If thou knouwest not this in thy conscience ether the deuyll hath blynded the wyth malice or thou art so vnlearned and folysh that thou art more worthy to haue a muk forke in thy hande then a pen to wryte agaynst any mā seyng the matter is so clearly set out without any rydles or parables If thou doest know in thy conscience that I rehersed this example nether to proue the baptyme of chylder wyth all nether that chyldren shulde haue baptyme declared vnto them and that onlye they that can vnderstand and the openynge of baptyme shoulde haue it declared to theym what deuyll art thou possessed withal which to defende thy folysh opinyon writest vtterly agaynst thy conscience But thys minisheth my meruelynge that I cal now to remembraunce whiche chaunced vnto me at Anwarpe I reasoned with one of your secte at Anwarpe who was learned in the Latyn tongue a doctor of phisicke and a greate Alchimiste when as we wete both chafed and heted with the long disputation he defending heresye and I confutynge thesame at lenght I toke hym with a shamfull lye and with suche a contradiction in his tale that he coulde not deny but that it was so But howe dyd he excuse hym selfe verelye thus It is wryten sayeth he in the xviij of the Apocalyps that we shuld handle the and such as thou art the whors chylder of Babylon with lyes cōtradictions and all other suche lyke for the reuēgynge of the lyes that ye haue made vnto vs in tymes past the wordes of Ihon sayeth he are these Reddidit illi sicut ipsa reddidit uobis duplicate ei duplicia secundum opera eius That is Rendre or gyue agayne vnto hyr as she hath rendred to you and duble the duble vnto hyr accordynge vnto hyr workes And when I alledged the scripture vnto him that the lying mought kylled the soule he answered that it was true in such as me that had no fayth but that it was not so in hym that had the true fayth and was of the true religion alledging this place of scripture for hym Si quid lethale biberint non nocebit eis yf they drynke any dedly poysō it shall not hurte them and expoundyng it thus there can no lyinge nether any other sin whiche is poyson vnto your soules hurt vs which beleue as we bo Terfore seyng that ye call me and al other that
defend the baptym of chylder papistes that is the chylder of the hoore of Babylon and separate your selfe both in the supper of our Lorde and also in baptyme and in the vnderstandyng of original sin from vs and make your selfe of an other religion it is no meruel that ye handle me euen so here in Englād as your brother catabaptist handled me in Anwerp And whete as men haue such conscience that they care not what they do so that it be done secretly vnto any mā of another religion whether it be yeoperdous for me and expediente for the rulers of this realm to haue such nere hand or no thē I reporte me vnto all wyse godly mē Much vayne bablynge and vnprofitable communication as vnworthy any aunswere do I pasouer and come vnto the place where as ye say that baptym is to my infantes for so do ye call them and vnbeleuers a vayn bare sygne vnfruitfull and vnprofitable except I wyll gyue and assygne vertue vnto the worke wrought Where as ye make all infantes myne because I take in hand tho defende theyr baptym I may a great dele be lesse ashamed of my poore and innocente infantes then ye maye be to defende the doctryne of your sedytions and mourderynge Anabaptistes which destroyed the noble citie of Munster in Wesphali and rose vp agaynst the Magistrates in Amsterdam and wan Swol not far from Dauenter and were about to haue destroyed Gronynge in West Freselande Let the innocentes be myne styll and let the factious catabaptistes be yours Let se who shal be more ashamed in the great daye of them that they defende But seynge ye wyll nedes make the infantes myne I wyll defende them as well as I can for as much as euery man is bounde to defende it that is hys My infantes are not vtterly withoute all faythe as ye meane callynge them vnbeleuers This wyll I proue by your owne maner of alledginge the scripture in the middes of your boke agaynste me What soeuer is not of fayth is synne nothynge that the infant doth or thinketh wheter it sukketh milke or drynketh bere or ale or choweth flesh as ye holde is of fayth for fayth is of heatynge and heatynge cōmethe by that worde of GOD then they the heare not the worde of GOD as chylder do not can do nothyng of fayth wherfore by your own alledging of the scripture the childe doth nothynge but it synneth in doynge what so euer it dooth for lacke of fayth But that they sin not in all thyng and that they ar not without all fayth I proue it thus They please GOD therefore they at not without al fayth for Paule sayeth without fayth it is impossible tho please GOD. That spechelesse chylder haue pleased GOD Iacob Hieremy the Prophete and Iohan the Baptist are wytnesses So ar also the chylder that Christ toke in his armes wytnesses of the loue that Christ bare vnto chylder Marke wytnesseth that Christe toke the chylder in to his armes and blyssed them If that he blyssed thē they pleased hym If they pleased hym they were not without faith ye do therfore the poore innocentes great wronge in callyng them vnbeleuers At the chylder vnbeleeuing Ye say yea then haue they that vnbeleeuinge and want of faythe ether of their first creation or by Adās fall yf that they haue it by their fyrst creation it is not true that God sayd that all thyng whych he had made was verye good Is an vnbeleuyng man verye good Is that good whych can not please God If that chyldren be vnbeleuyng by Adams fall then haue we found agayne orygynall synne which ye with your mayster Pellagius do vtterly deny Ye saye that they are vnbeleuyng and wythout faith but how proue ye that If ye say I se no workes yet in childrē therfor they haue no faith I axe yow whether ye are a beleuer or vnbeleuer when ye are a slepe and at al tymes whē ye do no good workes yf ye do beleue when ye are a slepe and at other tymes when ye do no good workes so maye chyldren haue faith although they be not yet come vnto the tyme of declaryng of fayth by theyr workes Is there any man so folish or so cruel that wyll call a yong gryfte of the fyrste yeres gryftynge fruytles and barrō whē as it can not for lacke of tyme age brynge as yet furth anye fruyte If that we can not call a tree vnfruytefull vntyll the tyme come of bryngynge furth of fruyte so ought ye not to call a chylde vnbeleuyng faithles vntyll he come vnto the time of declaryng his fayth I axe you Estne puer animal rationale an non Whether is a chylde a reasonable liuing thyng or no If ye graunt that he is an vnreasonable creature then ye make a chylde a brute beaste yf that a child be a reasonable creature yet can not for lacke of time and age vse reason so maye a chylde haue fayth and be called faythfull though for lacke of tyme and age it can shewe as yet no good workes whych are the tokens and fruytes of fayth If ye reason that they know not that they haue fayth therefore they haue no fayth I reason wyth you agayn chylder know not that they are redemed wyth Christes bloude shall we saye therfore that chyldren are not redemed with Christes bloud Chyldren know not that the promys of saluatyon belongeth vnto them shall we say therefore that the promys of saluatyō perteyneth not vnto chyldren Is not the heyre of landes heyre before he knowe that he is heyre So maye a chylde haue fayth and yet for lacke of age knowe not that it hath it Because ye alledge the scrypture hereafter generallye and delyuer it from all cyrcumstances ye must suffer me to reason wyth you after the same maner at this time Answer me to this argument Children are not already condēned therfore they do beleue for the scripture sayth he that beleueth not is condemned alredy Therfore ye must ether graūt that chylder do beleue or elles that they are already condemned Chylder also haue the holy ghost Is the holy ghost wythout fayth They haue all thynges that Christ hath for they are Christes he that spared not hys only sonne as Paule sayth but delyuered hym vp for vs and for chylder as well as for old men it is impossyble but that he gaue all thyng vnto chylder wyth Christ how can chyldren be faythlesse whych haue all that Christ hath Was Christ without fayth Now whether your I say or my argumentes are worthy more credence let them that are faithful men iudge indifferently But what yf I graunted you that chyldren had no fayth yet it dyd not folow that the infantes shuld haue no fruyte of theyr baptyme For our infantes are in as good a case as the infantes of the Iewes were in the same age that oure infantes are of But though they hadde bene wythout fayth yet had they receyued theyr cyrcumcysyon
broughte by lynage into all men by the trespasse of one man vnto condemnatyon The rewarde of synne is death By Adam all men do dye and by one manne synne entred into the worlde and thorough synne death as farre furth as we haue all synned that all chyldern whych as ye holde are vnbeleuers and therefore can not be purged for lacke of fayth in Christes bloude muste nedes be damned Whych opinion howe wycked it is and howe contrarye vnto the holye scrypture lette the chyrch of CHRIST gyue sentence Haue ye not taught holsome lessons in youre boke wherof suche a damnable conclusyon foloweth Are ye not worthye to be dubbed a doctour of heresye If ye be not I can not tell who is Wher as ye say that water cā not scoure the soule because orygynall syn is a wounde receyued of the soule ye seme to mene that the bodye shall not be damned for orygynall synne as a thing that neuer receyued it Is it not agaynst iustyce that they shoulde be condemned together whych were not conioyned in the dede doynge that deserued damnation ¶ Ye holde in youre nexte sentence a maruelous opynyon whyche is thys It is to be vnderstande that thoughe synne be common to all yet baptyme is not common to all Whych sentence semeth not to be true For to whomsoeuer preaching is common to the same is also baptyme common For preachyng and baptysyng are ioyned and commaunded together in these wordes Euntes docete omnes gentes baptizantes eas Go and teache all natyons baptysyng them Then is baptyme as common as preaching is hut preachyng is common to all ▪ therfore is also baptyme common to all though all wyll not receyue it For a man hauinge seuerall grounde ynough of hys owne oft tymes putteth no cattell into the comon allthough hys parte is as commō vnto hym as vnto anye other man Are the feldes no more cōmon vnto a man after that he enioyeth no longer the profyte of the common feldes Answer me wyth scrypture as I do confute yow wyth scrypture and let your arrogant I says whyche ye haue wythin thre leues of the begynnyng of your booke in the stede of scrypture boldly brought in thre tymes goo shake theyr eares For thoughe ye haue inchaunted your wretched scholars so that they beleue that it is the gospel whatsoeuer ye say yet are ye in no such autoryte maister doctor with me that I wyll beleue your I say when as ye bryng neuer one text of scrypture to bylde your I say vpon Well I deny the doctor saye what he wyll and set these textes of the scripture agaynst hym Paule wryteth vnto the Romanes thus As by the trespas of one man euel was brought by lynage into all men to condēnation so by the rightuousnes of one good came vnto all men to the iustifycation of lyfe Then is iustifycation as comon as condemnatiō And baptym is as cōmon as iustifycatyon is then is baptyme common vnto as many as sinne is common to Saynt Ihon sayeth that Christ obteyned mercye for our synnes and not only for our synnes but for the synnes of the hole worlde Lo here is mercy and remyssyon of synnes as generall and as commō as synne is And baptyme is common to all to whome remissyon of synne is common for baptym is the seale of forgyuenes of synnes and so he that maketh the one common maketh also the other common youre meruelous sentence therefore will not stand with scripture Of lyke folyshnes is youre conclusyon that foloweth that is that baptyme is to be offered to all men yet is it not to be gyuen to all men nor to be taken of all men Whosoeuer offereth anye thynge to anye creature and intendeth not to gyue the same mocketh the creature as when the Popishe priest sayeth vnto hys parishoners Accipite comedite take ye and eate ye and gyueth them nothyng but eateth all hym selfe mocketh hys parishoners And ye captaynes of catabaptistrye offer baptyme vnto all chyldren and intend not to gyue it vnto them Therfore ye mocke all chylderne lyke as boyes mock yong byrdes and yong choughes whyles ye offer vnto thē baptyme whych ye neuer intende to gyue them ¶ For the confutacyon of the laste parte of your sayinge that is that baptyme is not to be taken of all men I aske you whether mortification and regeneracyon ought to be taken of all men or no If that mortificatyon and regeneratyon ought to be receyued of all men and true baptym is true mortifycation and perfyt regeneracyon then ought all men to receyue baptym That baptim is mortyfycacyon and regeneracion Paule beareth witnes to the Romanes in the sixt Chapter and vnto Titus the thyrd chapter and in other places whych I might here reherse if I thought not these sufficient And so is your sayng false that all men ought not to the baptysed But what if all men ought not to be baptised What hindereth that baptisyng of yōg childrē What if many wicked persones be not worthy to receiue the seal of saluaciō I mean the outward baptime because thei wilfulli willingly refuse mortification wtstand the word of God shal their vnworthines make the innocent childer whō Christ hath wasshed with his bloud vnmet vnworthy to receiue the sacramēt of saluatiō regeneratiō the seal of the promis which god made vnto thē Thē this sayng of yours that al mē ought not to receiue baptī proueth nothing that chylder ought not to be baptized here may al mē se that your ground that ye wold make is but sande falleth whē it is but lightly touched that the worke that ye wold bylde vpō your fundaciō can fynd no fast groūd to rest vpō Wherfore ye ar not lyke to prosper in your purpose baptim say ye is onli dew to the elect churche chosen in Christe Iesus before al worldes What maketh this agaynst the christening of yōg childer I thāk yow for ye help me with argumētes agaynste your false doctrine For if baptim be only dew vnto the elect churche chosen in Christ Iesus before al worldes then is baptim dew vnto al the mēbres sparkes of the same churche but chylder ar membres a part of the elect churche Therfore baptim is dew vnto thē What nede vs now to dispute any longer in this matter seyng that by your own sayēg baptim is dew vnto childer as the membres of Christes elect churche chosen befor the worldes Is baptim only dew to the elect and chosen if that be so your brether anabaptistes of munster did wrong whē they baptysed so many deuilishe and reprobat persones of your sect that they by theyr myght and strenght put down all lawfull magistrates and rulers there and set vp a Kyng among them selues which had .xvi. wyues were these murderers and dispisers of goddis ministers of the elect chyrche was thys kyng ryghtly regenerate and a mortifyer of hys membres vpon earth which had so many wymen to
rectissime creditur That is If any man loke for the autorite of God in this matter Howbeit that which the hole churche holdeth and is not ordened of any counsell but is alwayes holden styll it is mooste ryghtlye beleued that it was geuen oute and ordened by the Apostles The same Austen in a sermonde of the baptysme of infantyng agaynst the Pelagyaus sayth these wordes Cypriane beyng axed whether an infant myghte be baptysed before the viij daye because in the olde lawe the childe myght not be cyrcumcysed but on the eyghte day Saint Cyprian said that no man shulde be hyndred from grace and that the spirytual cyrcumcysyon oughte not to be hyndred by carnall cyrcumcysyon Cypriane wryteth also in the viij epistel of the thyrd booke these wordes concernyng the baptyme of infantes Porro autem si etiam grauissimis delictoribus in deum multum ante peccatibus cū postea crediderunt remissio peccatorum datur ae baptismo atque gratia nemo prohibetur quanto magis prohiberi non debet infans qui recens natus peccauit nisi quòd secundum Adam car naliter natus contagium mortis antiqua prima natiuitate contraxit Furthermore but yf that forgeuenes of synnes be geuen vnto the greatest synners and to them that dyd greately offend before after that they dyd beleue and no man is forbydden frō baptyme grace How much more ought not a spechles chylde to be forbydden whych beyng lately borne hath commytted no offence but that it beyng borne carnally after Adam hath caught the infeccyon of the olde death by hys fyrst byrthe This is the mynde of Cypryane concernyng baptysyng of chylder and of originall synne And the same doctor writeth in an other place Nos iure damnamus omnia quae Christus non docuit We condemne by good ryght all thynges whych Christe hath not taught But Cypryane alowed the baptyme of chyldern therfore he reckened that the baptysyng of chyldren was taught of Christ That Origen is of that iudgement that the baptyme of chylder came from the Apostels hys wordes vpon the epystle to the Romanes and vpon Iohan do clearly testyfy as hereafter I shall proue whē I shall come to the place where as ye alledge Orygen your owne selfe Now seyng that these noble learned men whych were so nere hand the tymes of the Apostles holde in theyr workes with the baptyme of infantes and saye that it came vnto vs from the Apostles what wyse man wyll rather beleue yow beynge so longe after the Apostles tymes then them whych were so long ago and so nere the tymes of the Apostels Ye haue therefore long and besely babled in vain holding without any autorytye and agaynst learnyng and authoritye that the Pope ordened fyrst the baptyme of infantes And so ye haue won nothyng sauyng that ye haue founde and made a rodde for your owne tayle I meane that I haue gotten and gathered of your assertyon and opynyon a good coniectural argument that the baptyme of infantes came from thapostles tymes For ye shewed me fyrste that Hyginus ordened the baptyme of infantes which Hyginus as I shall declare hereafter was but .xxxviij. yeares frō some of thapostles For Volaterane wryteth in hys boke called Anthropologia that Saint Ihon the Euangelyst lyued vnto the .lxviii. yeare after the passion of Christ hys wordes are these Ioannes longa senectute confectus 68. anno post Christi supplicium extinctus est And Christ was .xxxiiij. yeares olde when he suffred therefore Iohan beyng alyue .lxviij. after hys passyon was alyue in the 102. yeare after Christes byrth And Hyginus was 140. yeares after Christes byrth therfore Higinus and some of the apostles namely saint Iohn the Euāgelist were no more one frō another then xxxviij yeares Whereby thorow youre helpe I haue now proued that the baptisynge of yonge chyldren was vsed wythin .xxxviij. yeares of some of the Apostles tymes I haue also proued by good auctorytye that Hyginus dyd not orden the baptysynge of chyldren and that he onlye put and added to the baptyme of chyldrē chrisme godfather godmother wherfore the baptysyng of chyldren beyng before Higinusses tymes and seynge he seynge he was with in .xxxviij. yeres of some of the Apostelles tymes it is a probable and very lykelye thynge that the baptysyng of childer came vnto vs euen from the apostels who were but a very shorte tyme before Ye are disapoynted of your purpose whych thought to haue brought the baptysynge of spechles chylder into a great cōtēpt an vtter despysyng because it had ben as ye thought of the Popes ordenyng makyng yf ye had not bē proued an arrāt lier but ye are proued a lyer wher ye sayd that Hygynus ordened the baptim of infants and an argument of antiquite is gathered of the longe contynuaunce of chylders baptyme and of the long approbatyon of the same thorow oute all hole Christes churche which is more worthy to be admitted then your supersticious opinion whose author was that perilous heritike Pelagius whom in th ende of your boke ye bryng in right honorably for a wytnes to mayntayne your dyuelishe opinion But although Hyginus had ordened first that childer shuld be baptised yet shulde not their baptyme haue bene Popyshe for in the tyme of Hyginius the byshops of Rome had not yet vsurped any supremacie ouer other Byshops muche lesse ouer Kynges and Emperours Neyther hadde the byshops of Rome brought in the dyuelyshe doctryne wherefore theyr doctrine was hated and called popyshe and dyuelyshe In the tyme of Hyginus euery byshop was called Papa as euery prest in hygh Almony is called pfaff and in low Germany pape euē vnto thys day Wherefore the doynge of Hyginus shuld haue no more ben called popysh then the ordynaunce of any other byshopp that dwelt out of Rome ether in Asia or Aphrica How be it thankes be vnto God I haue had wytnes ynough to proue that the baptyme of yong chyldren was not ordened of Higinus and lo can the baptyme of chyldren in no wyse be called popysh as we call suche as yow Popysh whych at the last ester right Popishly knelyng toke the sacrament geuyng occasyon vnto all men to thynke that ye were a sterke ydolater and beleued that bread was turned into a God For your doyng was the ordinaūce of a lofty and a right Antichristian byshop of Rome whiche vsurped power both ouer all byshops and also ouer al Kynges and Emperours Although I haue with the rehersal of .vii. places of scripture sufficiently reproued your folyshe and monkish maner in dilaying of baptime your tyrannical tying it vp vnto certayne tymes and that your Cathechumeni with their yeares of probation are contrary to the vse of Christes primatiue church yet for to proue that youre dylaying of baptime whereupon ye wolde groūde your erroure that childer ought not to be baptised is agaynst the scripture and only the ordinaunce of men I wyll shew what men and what coūcels haue ordened all
the chylder of the Christianes haue the promys of the heretage as these places folowynge do testyfie I wyll make stronge my cumnant betwene me and the and thy sede after the in their generacions in a continuall comnant that is to wyt that I wyll be a GOD vnto the and to thy sede after the. And agayne in the .xxij. of Genesis In thy sede shall all the nacions of the earth be blissed In the .xliiij. of Esaye is thys prymis I wyll poure oute my Spirite vpon thy sede and my blessyng vpon thy buddes And Peter in the second of the Actes speketh of a playn promis in these wordes The promys was made vnto you and to youre chylder and to all that are far of whome soeuer the Lorde oure GOD shall call Lo here is playne mention made of the promys made vnto chylder Then when as GOD perfourmeth all that he promyseth and he promysed saluation vnto childer it foloweth that they haue the heretage that GOD promysed them then doth the heretage and kyngdome of GOD perteyne vnto them Why do you so vncharitably wyth hold the sygne and seale of saluation from chylderen to whome the heretage belongeth Who gaue you any such authoritie ye proude and presumptuous tyrannes as to make wardes of the chylder of GOD and to wyth hold from them the sygne and seale of theyr fathers heretage Now where is all your scripture whyche ye boost that ye defende youre errour wythall aunswere vnto these scriptures and confute them yf ye can Where as ye saye afterwarde that nother the sygne of Chrystes Supper nother the raynbowe sygnyfyeth anye thynge to chylder ye are farre oute of the waye The breakynge of the breade in the supper and deliuerynge of it vnto the congregation be tokeneth that Christes body was broken for all them that shal be saued and that the vertue of his passion shulde be delt to all them that are elect and chosen to be saued Thē when as childer are elect and chosen to be saued is the misterye of Christes supper no signe of saluation vnto childer Doth not the rayne bow signifie to al the worlde that the world shal no more be drowned wyth water Doth not that promis that the worlde shuld be no more destroyed wyth water perteyne vnto chylder If that the promys perteyne vnto childeren how happeneth that the signe of the promys signifieth nothyng vnto them It must nedes signify vnto yong childer as well as to olde men that they shall not be drowned wyth an vniuersall sloude as the worlde was ones destroyed So dothe the baptysynge of chylderen sygnifie as well vnto chylder that Christ dyed for them and rose for them as it sygnifyeth the same to olde menne For all althoughe they see not the sygne and knowe not of the sygne yet maye they haue it as surely as thei haue the thing sygnyfyed by the sygne Almyghtie GOD made a couenaunt and promysse not onely vnto menne but also vnto byrdes and bestes that they shuld not be drowned with the vniuersall fould Genesis .ix. Beholde sayth the Lorde I make my couenaunt wyth you and wyth yoursede after you and wyth euery lyuynge soule that is wyth you as well foul as cattell and beestes Thys shall be the sygne whyche I geue betwene you and me and euery lyuynge soule whyche is wyth you I haue set my bowe in the cloude and it shall be a sygne a sygne of the couenaunt betwene me and the yearthe So that when I bryng cloudes vpon the yearth the bowe shall appeare in the cloudes and then wyll I thynk vpon the comnant betwene me and you and all lyuyng creatures Fyrste I gather of thys place that the comnant of GOD is profytable not onely vnto them that haue the vse of reason but also vnto byrdes and vnreasonable bestes although they knowe nothynge at all of the promys I gather also that the sygnes of Goddes comnaunte are sygnes vnto byrdes and beestes and not onely sygnes but profytable sygnes vnto them althoughe they neuer see them nor vnderstande theim Whereupon I gather that the holy sygne of Baptyme is not onely a signe vnto childer of remission of synnes and of Goddes fauor toward them but also a fruitful profitable signe For how can the sygne of the raynbow be more profytable vnto vnresonable beastes and byrdes then the Sacramte of baptyme is profytable vnto yōg chylder seyng that GOD promysed as well saluation to chylder from hell death and damnation and made baptyme the sygne thereof as he promysed vnto beastes and byrdes safegarde from general drowning and made the raynbow the token sygne or seal of the same Here is your sayinge that the raynebowe is noo sygne vnto chyldern proued playne false and contrarye vnto the open text of Goddes holy word Where is the great clerke that sayde that I should not haue Winchester in hande when I had hym in hande as thoughe he had passed Wynchester so far in wyt and learnyng that ther were no comparison to be made betwene them Here myght ye be ashamed yf ye hadde anyō shame at all Here myght your disciples be ashamed of suche an vnlearned and dotynge scolemaster Is the seale of a childes landes no seale vnto hym because he hath no knowlege of the seale and knoweth nothynge therof What soeuer ye aunswer the seale is euen a seale vnto chylder and when they come to age they clayme theyr lands therby Euen so is baptyme a seal of remission of synnes vnto chyldern although they know it not And when they cum to age it shal be an assurance vnto them to clayme the promiss of God by ye haue been therfore to bolde to bable of these matters where in ye haue very lyttelle skill And pronounce as boldelye as though ye were syttynge vpon Apolloes trestell Let youre I sayes haue autorite amonge your bewitched scholars as much as ye wyll but they shal haue none with me excepte ye can proue your saying true by the scripture Ye axe me why is baptym not differred as wel as the supper of the Lorde A mā might answer you that they wer lyke to be lurched at your gluttenous supper yf that they were with you for ye wolde haue at the supper of the gluttenous catabaptistes whiche ye call the supper of oure Lord befe mutton vele capons and such harde meates as the pore sucking childer can not eat and therfore it were no wisdom that thei shuld suppe with you vntyl theyr teeth wer growen If that I had bylded my opynion vpon doctores and stories as ye do yours I coulde haue broughte manye places both oute of the doctours and stories which proue that it was the custome a M.CC. yeres ago to gyue the Sacramente of CHRISTES body and blud only in bred and wyne vnto the yōg chylder streyght waye after baptyme But because I ground my opinion only vpon scripture I wyll aunswere you by scripture The supper of the Lorde requireth a doer and it is an actiue
any receiue baptim without theis persuasion it profiteth hym nothyng I haue proued suffyciently before that the Iewes circumcisiō was thesame of thesame effect strength with thē that baptime is to vs. But the childer of the Iewes hauynge no more fayth then oure children and being no more sanctified by faith in the blood of Christ then ours be and haue receyued no more consolation of Goddes promisses then our children haue done obteyned forgyuenes of synnes and haue taken wyth fruite the sygne and seale of the same I mean their circumcisiō Wherevpon I gather yf that the Iewes childer were wythout faith and were only sanctified by the promis and mercy of god and not by theyr own faith or any thing of their owndoing and wer not withstanding law fully receiued in to the felouship of the faithful church by circūcision and obteined forgiuenes of sinnes then whē as God regardeth nomore a Iew then a gentil and hath promised as wel to be a god to the childer of the beleuyng Gentils as of the beleuyng Iewes the childer of the faythful Christians receiue remission of synnes by the promis and mercy of god before the vse and exercise of faith and are as lawfully receyued by baptim in to the felowship and the chuche of the saithful christians and to the partaking of forgyuenes of synnes as the Iewes chylder were receiued in to the Iewes churche and were made parteners by circumcision of the promys and forgiuenes of synnes Now must ye ether deny that god is so good vnto the chrystyans childer as he was vnto the Iewes childer or els that our childer haue remissiō of sinnes ar as lawfully baptised as the iewes childer were circumcised not withstanding that our childer be not as yet for lack of age cūmen to the vse and exercyse of faith Ye hold repete in thys your reasō an opinion a false heresy against the opē scriptur That Sacramentes do not profit them whiche heare not the promys and knowe not what it meaneth For the confutacion of thys I aske you whether the Iewes childer which nether heard the promis made vnto Abrahā nether receiued any cōsolation by it shuld haue ben saued frō hell and dānation if thei had departed two daies after their circūcisiō or they shuld haue not ben damned if that any of thē had died vpon the .x. daye with out circumcisiō whether thei shuld haue ben dāned or saued If ye answer with the scriptur that not withstanding that they knewe not the promis nether heard any time of it that God which said I wil be thy god the god of thy sede after the was for his promisses sake a God that is a sauioure vnto thē that had the sacramēt of circumcision was a iuge vnto thē that died vncircumcised as to the breakers of his couenāt and therfore to be cast out and rooted furth from theyr people then haue ye writen agaynst scripture where ye holde that none can haue any profit of sacramentes excepte they vnderstande them heare thē and haue consolation therby I nede not here reherse the story of the raynbow which ye cal your self a sacrament wher by I proued that euen the byrdes and vnreasonable beastes had profyt all though they neuer heard the promiss nor knew that it was a Sacrament for I haue intreated of that mater largely here before your argument I trust now is confuted all the false doctrine that ye intended to byld vpon the same now wyl I let the reder se your next argument and answer to it as well as I can Christe had his disciples to preach the confortable tydynges to euery creature of mankynde but he neuer had baptise other then such as at theyr preachiryg wold beleue ¶ Christ sayde vnto his disciples preache the gospel to euery creature but he sayde not preache the gospell to euery creature of mankynde as ye do say sin doyng where of ye committ I dolatry or at the leste a graet offence agaynst GOD after your own iugement your argument childer ought not to be baptised because Christ neuer cōmanded in the scripture expressedly thē to be baptised and so because Christ sayd not expressedly preache the gospell to euery creature of mākynde but sayd as saynt marke writeth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is preache the gospel vnto euery creature ye do wrong to say which is not expressed in the scripture in the stede of euery creature of mankynde If that ye aunswer to be vnderstād euery creature of mankynde take vnto yow autorite to vnderstande the scripture as ye thynk best why may not I in this text Euntes docete omnes gentes baptizantes eas Vnder the name of al nationes vnderstand yong specheles childer as ye vnder the name of euery creature vnderstande euery creature of man kynde seing that a childe may as wel be vnderstanded vnder the name of nationes as man kynde may be vnderstanded vnder the name of al creatures If that Christe bad hys disciples preache the gospell vnto euery creature of mankynde what kynde are yong chylder the creatures of of horse bulles or hogges or of mankynd yf they be creatures of mankynde then must they haue the worde preached vnto them by your interpretation is not thys interpretation a prety one that it had also nede of an other interpretation Myght ye not as well haue sayd to all kyndes of men of euery nation that can vnderstand prechyng Because ye shal not thynk that your argument is sure strong where ye reson that Christ bad not hys Apostelles by expressed wordes baptise chyldern ther for they ought not to baptyse chylder I make such lyke negatiue argumentes of scripture whych if they be not sure but false and folishe then seyng that of lyke thynges lyke iugement is to begyuen your negatiue arargument is both vnsuer false and foolishe Christe neuer commanded yow to were a ryng on your finger and be cause it shuld not be smothered vnder your gloue to make a wyndow to let the ayre cum in to it I dare not say that it myght be seene nether cōmande he yow to syng in his church any pypyng Christe neuer commaunded prycksong or any besy discant therfore ye offend to be a curious musician GOD bad his disciples neuer expressedly in hys scripture preach that wymen shulde cum to te communiō therfore ought no woman cum to the communion GOD neuer in his worde expressedly commaūded his Apostelles to suffer suche tal men as you bee to lyue syngle therfore your curate doth wrong to suffer yow to lyue syngle Christe neuer commaunded any Christen men to differ the baptym of theyr chyldren vnto the .xiiij. yere of theyr age you do therfore wrong to differ the baptisyng of chyldren vnto the xiiij yere of their age If these be not good argumentes made euen after the same maner of yours that is negatiue then is yours a noughty argument to say Christe neuer bad Baptyse
and to flye ambition where with he saw them entangled Christe byddeth not vs learne al vertues of childer but onely hmmilite and fliyng of ambition Now I pray yow how folowe these argumentes chylder ar not desierous of honor ergo they haue no original synne Christ sendeth vs to learne humilite of childer ergo thei are not defyled with the synne of Adame If these be good argumentes theÌ„ ar also they that folow good argumentes Peter was no thiefe ergo Peter was no fyghter Mary magdaleyn was no murderer therfore she was no vnclene woman of her body If these argumentes do not folow theÌ„ doth not thys your argumeÌ„t folow childer ar not proud desirous of honor therefore they ar not defyled with originall synne because your argument semeth to lene vpon this pyller Christe sendeth his Apostelles and vs to learne of none that is defyled with any synne I wyll examin it I trust ouerthrow it with opeÌ„ examples of the scripture Christe in the is of Luke exhorteth vs to folow the wykked stewarde and bryngeth hym for an example to be folowed in wysdome Was thys wykked stewarde with out originall synne and vndefyled by Adame because Christ sendeth vs vnto hym to learne wisdome in one point Christ sendeth vs also vnto serpentes to learne wisdome be ye wyse sayeth he as serpentes and symple as doues Haue serpentes no poyson because Christe sendeth vs vnto them to learne wisdome Paule exhorteth them that he writeth vnto to folow hiÌ„ was Paule without syn because he exhorted hys Disciples to folow hym No. for he graunteth in diuerse places in the Epistel to the Romanes both generally particularely that he is a synner and yet not withstandynge he exhorteth his disciples to folow hym sayng be you the folowers of me as I folow Christ So maye we folowe childer as they folowe Christe in humilite and lowlines and yet their humilite doth not proue they are cleare froÌ„ original â—ynne What if I graunted you that the childer that Christ set furth for vs to folowe where at that tyme clere from origynall synne as I recken they wer in dede for it is lyke they were chylder of the Iewes and hadde the promys and hadde receyued the seale of the promys cyrcumcisyon and therefore was cleared from theyr originall synne that it shulde not bee imputed vnto them shall it folowe that they had no original synne before No. For God purgeth chylder as well as men from originall syn Therfore thys text of scripture whiche ye haue alleged out of Mathew proueth nothyng that childer ar fre from originall synne and so where as ye thought that by the strengthe of your inuincible argumeÌ„t it shuld haue bene easy to haue aunswered to my argumentes made to proue that chylder were borne in originall synne your wepon taken from yow it is as harde to solute my argumentes as it was before Diuerse other absurdites inconueniences folow vpoÌ„ your foolish assertioÌ„ sayeng namely this Christe say ye the prynce of physiciones sendeth his chefe surgeones and physiciones to be cum suche as the babes wer but ye say a litle after that the childer were vnwasshed vnchristened vnleuers Then sent Christe hys apostels by your sayng to yong chylder to learne of them to be vnwashed vnchristened to be faythles Ye set in your margeÌ„ ouer agaynst thys your argument with many other wordes uirgines enim sunt dealbauerunt uestimenta sua in sanguine agui For they are pure virgines and they haue made whyte their garmentes in the blood of the lambe If that this text perteyn vnto chylder as yow do allege it ye haue brought me .ij. serpeÌ„tines to shoote against yow with the first I wil ouerthrow your opinion that chylder ar not borne in originall synne and wyth the secund your false lye where as ye sayd that chylder were vnwasshed If that chylder had their garmentes made whyte then was their garmentes once not white then if whitnes betokeneth clennes other colores vncleÌ„nes it foloweth that they were once vnclene for all that they wer afterward come vnto such whitnes clenenes by the blood of the lambe If that thei made white their clothes in the blood of the laÌ„be then wer they wel wasshed Who can be better wasshed then thei be that are wasshed with Christes blood then are the childer wasshed and ye sklander theÌ„ of vnclennes yf thei be wasshed then were they before vnclene but they had no other vncleÌ„nes sauyng original syn thefore by this text of scriptur childer haue had original sin by the blood of the lambe are scoured purged froÌ„ thesame To the Reader MEruell not good reader that I haue not answered vnto the rest of thys maÌ„s boke for I wold as gladly haue answered vnto the rest as to it whiche I answered to before but that I haue so muche ado wyth the settyng out of my Herball that I can not do that at thys tyme. But here after God wyllynge I shall make an ende of it that I haue begon yf it shall be thought expedient to the churche to do so Almighty God kepe the from al phantasticall and straunge spretes and their learnyng also Amen Randol Hurlst vnto the Reader If that the Scottes or foren folke our contrey shoulde assayle Wyth courage ferce and weapons strong from vs it for to take A man myght fynde ynow that wolde not haue them to preuayle But would moste stoutly stryue and stande their fercenes for to slake And yet almoste there none is founde that in a greater wyght Wyll take in hande the fayth of Christe from suche for to defend As teache false doctrine euery where and therewyth wolde vs freyght Denieng Baptyme to oure Babes and what so it dothe sende Whose doctrine suche as Godly are do know is very naught And that it is more poysonfull and hurteth farre more sore Then yf oure contreyshold from vs by force be euer caught And we in thraldom should be the throne to serue for euer more Wherewith thys author beyng moued toke pen in hand to wryte Agaynst all fuche as the and thyue of treuth wolde haue berest Whome thanke dere reader for hys payne that he thus wolde endite For the defence of the and thyne in that that Christe hath lest THOMAS SOMVS ECCLEsiastes Lectori Mystica baptismi libris quae clausa teguntur Nuncia nonnullis hic manifesta patent Huc igitur studiosa cohors properare iuuabit Caelica si uerba dogmata sacra placent Quam dabit hic claui hac reserabis claustra daturam Quae tenet area intus conspicienda palam Impiger ut nuÌ„mos cumulet mercator ad Indos Currit at incertertae pendet ab ore Deae Huc properes tutus eris sapientia ditat Fortuna nunquam deficiente suos THOMAS BECONVS Ecclesiastes Lectori Quando ita diuini fert immutanda uoluntas Numinis assiduo cunctorum marte suorum Explorare fidem constantia pectora morum Inuictum robur confirmaturus in illis Hac ratione sui simul pietatis amorem Implorari sui docturus corde fideli Spiritus auxilium nos quorum cura suorum Commissa est fidei uigilesque ducesque tuendis Praeficimur castris te nunc tibi quanta monemus Immineant miles Christi discrimina uitam Si sapis saluam cupis in statione manere Tuta praecipimus summo uitare maligni Insidias hostis studio fraudemque cauere Sed ne tela tibi desint quêis fortiter illi Occurras uires diuino robore frangas Et quae parta suo precioso sanguine Christus Tradidit partam bello tueare quietem Scripturae armabit te plena panoplia sacrae Ex qua cuique malo liceat depromere quicquid Seruiat arcendo Quod si liuore maligno Commotus pueris baptismi munera paruis Extorquere uelit iam partae signa salutis Atque tibi curare tuam solatia prolem Aeternum reruÌ„ Dominum patremque bonorum Ecce parata adsunt tibi munimenta tuisque Et tela inuictis fundentia uiribus hostem Turneri hoc opera factum cui saepe Papistae Insignem uicti palmam laudemque dedere Cui Deus aeternam transactae praemia uitae Donabit uitam Tu grates pectore grato Tantis pro meritis age gratus teque tuere Fortiter atque tuos uires frange malorum Militiae tandem finis continget ouansque Cum Christo duce tum caelum tua uota subibis Vale Robert Thomlynson to the reder As wede destroyd the corne and made it oft decaye And dredfull damp dokill the fish that in the water play And the serpents in the grasse oft tymes men do greue That think on them none ill but very well beleue So haue these Catabaptistes a very long space Encombred Gods word in many asundry place Till a Physician by Gods myght and power With triacle of Gods word that poyson doth scower Wherfor praise we God that sitteth on hye Which for such sores such salues neuer dothe denye ¶ Imprinted at London for Androw Hester dwellyng in Powles Churchyarde at the wytt horsse next to Powles scole An. 1551. the 30 of Ianuarij Cum Priuilegio ad imprimendum solum
your delayes that al men may perceiue easely that ye buylde not vpon Christ but vpon Popes men and councels Who wolde haue thought before this that catabaptistry wolde haue leaned vpon any suche foundacions Ye hadde wont to rattel and crake nothing but scripture scripture but now for lacke of scriptur ye make these councels and lawes of man your foundacion It is wryten in the Laodicen councel in the .xlv. Chapter of them that come to be baptised aboute the mydweke Non oportet post duas hebdomadas quadrage simae quenquam ad baptismum suscipi After twoo weakes of lente muste none bee receyued vnto baptyme In the same counsell it is wrytten of the rendrynge of the belief of them that shal be baptised in the .xxv. Chapiter They that shall bee baptysed must learne the Crede and vpon the thursdaye of the laste weke to ad or present them to the Byshop or elder The Latin wordes are these Baptizandos oportet fidei symbolum discere quinta feria ultimae septimanae uel Episcopo uel presbytero addere This counsel was holden in the tyme of Liberius the Bishop of Rome about the yere of our lord CCC ixiiij In the Gerunden cuncell in the third statute it was ordened Vt cathechumeni baptizentur die uel uigilia Paschae Pentecostes caeteris solemnitatibus tantum infirmi that is that the disciples or learners called Cathechumeni shuld be baptised on easter day or easter euen or witsōday or witson euē Vpō other solemne dayes let only them that are sycke be baptised This counsel was holden in the tyme of Hormisda Byshop of Rome in the yere of our Lord D.xiij Siritius byshop of Rome whiche lyued in the yere of our Lord CCC.lxxxix ordened in hys seconde decree that baptim shulde not be ministred but at Easter and Witsondaye The latin is this Statuit Siritius preterquam in Pascha Pentecoste baptismus non celebretur This was also ordened in the fourth councell of Cartage that they that were to bee baptised shulde shew theyr name and absteyne a longe tyme from wine and fleshe that they shulde haue handes layd vpon theyr heades and be oft examined and then receyue baptime The latin is thus in the .lxxxv chapter of the foresayd counsel Baptizandi nomen suum dent diu sub abstinentia uini carninm ac manus impositione crebra examinatione baptismum precipiant Here is the foundacion where vpon ye buylde your delaying denyall ye rather the blaspheming of the baptim of infantes Vpon these counsels and mens decrees are buylded your vnchristened Cathechumeni your deuelisshe delaying of baptime your tyinge vp of it to certayne tymes as to Easter and Wytsondaye Here is grounded the custome of dylayinge and dryuynge of of baptime whiche ye very lyinglye lyke a man past al shame sayde was in oure moste holy religion vsed seuen score yeres whē as al these autours and councellers whyche ordened these dylays were many yeres after the time of Hyginius who was aboute seuen score yeres after Christes natiuite How vnshamefacedly then haue ye assygned that custome of dylayinge of baptime vnto the tyme that went betwene Christes natiuite and Hyginus seynge that these dylayes was ordened CC. yeres and more after Christes byrth Why do ye refuse to fight with me with suche weapons as I brought into the fielde I brought in the sworde of Goddes worde to defende the baptyme of childer withall for I defended it only with the worde of GOD. But ye now wryting agaynst me fyght agaynst the baptime of chylder wyth no scripture but wyth customes wyth decrees councels ordynaunces of men the autoritie of the Donatistes Anabaptistes and Pelagians all open heretikes and worthelye condemned of Christes hole churche As for these wepons I fet not one strawby for all these can not preuayle agaynst the worde of GOD. Thynke you that when I haue defended my doctryne with scripture that your vnsauery reasons grounded vpon councels and men can confute my reasons grounded vpon the holy scripture Whosoeuer goeth aboute to confute scripture with councels and mens decrees and hys owne argumentes preferreth counsels and decrees before GOD and his worde and reckeneth hym selfe better then GOD. In my sermon at Thystelworth I resoned thus strongly armed with the authoritie of saint Peter in the .x. of the Actes of the Apostels There is nothynge that can hynder them to be baptised which haue the holy goste chylder haue receyued the holy goste as wel as olde men therfore there is nothynge to hynder them but they may be baptised as wel as olde folke ye to confute that chylder shulde be baptised brynge in agaynste my alleged scripture the longe custom in your moste holy church councels and decrees of Preestes and byshops wherefore ye prefer them before GOD and hys open scrypture and reeken mannes custome stronger then Goddes worde and man stronger then GOD for that doth euery man reeken stronger whyche can ouercome another Then ye confutynge my alledged scrypture mans doctryne haue a very euyll opinion agaynst GOD and his worde much lyke vnto the papistes whych destitute of scripture fought after thys maner ar ye do now Whereas ye holde that Where men and wemen of perfyt age are baptised all the three sortes of scolares take profite of the openynge and declaryng of baptyme but when as childer are baptysed none of them all for ye saye when men and wemen are baptised all receyue admonishemēt by which the good amend and theyr lyues and are saued the other knowynge that they stonde bounde styll to amende or to be condemned Ye aunswere me very fryarly lewdlye vnlearnedly and lyingly First it is playnly against al scripture and reason that he that lyueth noughtely and neuer intendeth to amend hys lyfe after that he is baptysed for of suche spake I shall bee anye thynge the better by the seynge of the baptyme of men and wemē namely the case put before that the thyrde sorte nether was christian in lyuynge nether intēded to lyue any christian lyfe Can the syghte of a Sacrament alone be it neuer so well minystred profite hym that neuer intendeth to profit Wyll the worke of seynge baptyme wrought make hym that intendeth no Godlynes be godlye Is not thys to saye that wheate sowen vpon a stone shal ryue the stoone and make it brynge furthe fruyte whether it wyl or no agaynste the nature of the stone So that ye saye wyttely and wyselye that it profiteth al the three sortes the is them of the perfitest sorte them that are vnperfit and desire perfection and them that nother are perfyt nor yet intende to come to any perfection Of the lyke foolyshnes is your saying that where as chyldern ar baptysed no man taketh profyt wherof of the chyldes baptyme or of the openyng and declarynge of our baptime which are baptysed alredy If that ye mene that in that congregatiō where as children are baptised the declarynge of the mystery and secretes of