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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A85387	Cata-baptism: or new baptism, waxing old, and ready to vanish away. In two parts. The former containes LVIII. considerations, (with their respective proofs, and consectaries) pregnant for the healing of the common scruples touching the subject of baptism, and manner of baptizing. The latter, contains an answer to a discours against infant-baptism, published not long since by W.A. under the title of, Some baptismall abuses brielfy discovered, &c. In both, sundry things, not formerly insisted on, are discovered and discussed. / By J.G. a minister of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.	Goodwin, John, 1594?-1665.	1655 (1655)	Wing G1155; Thomason E849_1; ESTC R207377	373,602	521

leave no weighty no effectual or lively impression of their truth or import upon the spirits and consciences of the hearers 5. Whether the now-named deficiences with § 9. several other disorders too frequent amongst you considered there be any great presence of Jesus Christ at any time in your holy Assemblies or such as is frequently manifest in the assemblies of other Churches or whether you have any countenance from heaven either in gifts or graces comparable to other Churches of the Saints And whether the principal if not the only cement and band that keeps and holds your Churches and Congregations together be not the simple conceit that you are by means of your new Baptisme gotten neerer to God and deeper in his favour then other men how holy or worthy soever otherwise above your selves 6. Whether the bulk and main body of persons whether men or women for I hope better things of some of you and which accompany Christian sobriety and true mortification but whether the generality or far greater part of persons of your judgement and practise in the Nation be not so far from that Christian sweetness humility and meekness of spirit which becometh those who profess themselves baptized into the death of Christ buried with him in Baptism towards all men that they scarce retain the moral principles of common Civility but are heady rash fierce despisers of others yea of good men self-conceited arrogant quarrelsome clamorous captious vain boasters unjust defamers of men dissenting in judgement from them still upon all disputes between men of their judgement and others about Baptisme how weakly soever their cause hath been pleaded by her Patrons and how potently and manifestly soever overthrown by her Adversaries yet ringing the great Bell of Ephesus for joy of the victory Great is Diana of the Ephesians Great is the Doctrine of Ana-baptisme and prevaileth a Cumque passim isti Anabaptistae de victoriâ ab Oecolampadio reportatâ gloriarentur edidit ille Colloquii cum Anabaptistis habiti acta Scultet Annal. Dec. 1. An. 1625. Vt primum Constantiam venit Balthasar Anabaptista apud ministros verbi sic nos calumniatus est victoriamque suam de Catabaptismo jactavit ut nesciam an nillos in odium nostri traxerit Ibid. In disputatione autem suprà modum erant vehementes parati mori potius quàm cedere Balthazar quidam Anabaptista literis ad Senatum Tigurinensem pollicetur se Zuinglium suis Scripturis superaturum de Baptismo Ibid. Anabaptisme it seemeth being more hardy then God supposed the King of Tyre would be Ezek. 28. 9. and daring to say in the hands of him that slayeth her I am God I am a divine Truth 7. Whether any person man or woman who § 10. have turned Proselyte to your way hath ever given or at this day can give any competent satisfaction unto men by any sensible growth in grace in knowledge in faith in love in humility in fruitfulness c. that their Proselytism in this kind hath added so much as one cubit nay so much as one hairs bredth to their spiritual stature or that their souls have prospered to any degree by means of their new Baptism Nay 8. Whether a very great number at least of those who have done homage to your way and have bowed down their judgements and consciences unto it have not been spiritual losers by the change sensibly declining and decaying in their graces in those Christian and worthy principles and dispositions which at first they brought with them unto your way waxing much worse after their new Baptizing then they were before as if their new Baptisme had not been into Christ or into his death but rather into old Adam and into his life And whether you your selves in several of your Congregations are not experimentally sensible of such a frequent declining and putrifying of your Members as this casting out and cutting off great numbers of them from day to day I was somwhat more particularly re-minded to put you upon consideration of these two particulars last mentioned by occasion of some of my acquaintance formerly who since have stumbled in the dark into your way These I confess are not many only this I have observed concerning them and must needs upon this occasion testifie that not any one of them as far as an estimate can be made by what is visible or discernable in point of conversation profecit hilum hath gained so much as the making of one hair either black or white by the exchange of his Baptisme but sundry of them have lost many degrees of that sweet Christian savour and love wherewith they excellently adorned the Gospel before I will not positively say by but upon after and since the translation of their judgements into your way 9. Whether amongst men and women whose § 11. Consciences have at any time been surprized with a conceit of more goodness in your way then in the contrary and so have betaken themselves unto it such who have been either the most Christianly meek and humble on the one hand or the most judicious sober learned and best composed on the other hand have not upon a little experience of your way grown cool and very indifferent in their thoughts about it yea and many repented of their weakness and surprisal and forsaken your tents as about Luthers time Oecolampadius Johonnes Gaster Pfistermeierus Johannes Denkius persons of great learning worth and humility with several others and of late yeers many of like character among our selves whom if I judged it convenient I could name Only I may be free I presume to mention that concerning Mr. Richard Baxter a man as like as any man I know to make a crooked generation streight if it be possible which himself hath published of himself viz. that his foot was once very neer to be taken in this snare Huldericus Zuinglius a man of most signal worth likewise in his times maketh the like acknowledgement in these words Wherefore I my self that I may ingenuously confess the truth some yeers ago being deceived with this error thought it better that childrens Baptisme should be delayed until they came to full age 10. Whether since the first invention and practise of your way in later times which according to Scul●etus who wrote the History of the Reformation of Christian Religion by Luther and other his Assistants partakers of the same grace with him therein was in the yeer 1521. a Origo fanaticae ●nabaptistarum sectae ●●ic Anno deb●tur Scultet Annal. Dec. 1. in Anno 1521. Nicolaus Ciconia Marcus Stubnerus Martinus Cell●rius Thomas Muntzerus primi hujus sectae nominantur Authores Ibid. men of your judgement wherever almost they have come have not obstrustructed the course and proceedings of the Gospel opposed troubled defamed the most faithful and worthy Instruments of Christ in the work of Reformation and upon this account been complained of by them b Cursum Evangelii

2. Saith he If it be called the Baptism of Repentance for the remission of sins because men by taking up that Ordinance do ingage themselves to the practice of repentance and mortification as the Apostle supposeth the beleeving Romans Mr. A. p. 15. 16. to have done Rom. 6. 2 to 6. By the way what need we an IF If it be called c. if the Apostle hath determined the case then this end is better provided for in the baptism of men then of Infants Surely Circumcision under the Law was an ingagement unto men to the practise of repentance and mortification as well as Baptism under the Gospel And yet God judged this end of it better serv'd and answered by the administration of it unto Infants then unto men otherwise we presume he would have prescribed the Administration of it unto men rather then unto children That men were ingaged by their being Circumcised unto the practise of Repentance and Mortification I suppose is no mans doubt or question If it be resolution in aboundance on that hand we speak of may be had Deut. 10. 16. Jer. 4. 4. Rom. 2. 28 29. Phil. 3. 3. besides some other places Therefore unless Mr. A. can give us some better reason then God himself knew any in the like case why a Baptismall engagement unto Repentance and Mortification should be better provided for by the baptising of men then of children it concerns him to retract his assertion in this behalf But 3. The reason or rather vice-reason which he gives of such his assertion is because an engagement to practise repentance supposeth 1. An end of Repentance 2. A capacity of performing that to which they do ingage neither of which are to be found in Infants c. I answer Sect. 65. 1. An engagement to practise Repentance by those who were circumcised supposed as much an end of repentance as it doth in those who are baptised and so likewise a capacitie to perform that which was engaged unto yet these neither divisim nor conjunctim were judged any reason by God why Infants ought not to be circumcised But the wisdom it seems of men re-baptized is super-infinite 2. I confesse I do not understand what he meaneth when he affirmeth that an end of repentance is not to be found in infants but in men And therefore reverencing that saying of the wise man He that answereth a matter before he heareth i. understandeth it it is folly and shame unto him I shall make no further answer at present unto it but this viz. that when Mr. A. shall enable me to understand how the end of repentance is in men and not in children I shall freely give him my sense of his notion 3. Nor is Mr. A. a friend either unto reason or to the truth in affirming that there is no capacitie in children of performing that to which they do ingage For 1. in such a sense as there is a capacitie in them to engage unto any thing there is likewise to perform Children are in as good and proper a capacitie to perform that which is or ought to be ingaged unto in Baptim as to make the engagement it self Secondly though children be not in a present actuall or immediate capacitie to perform that which Baptism engageth unto yet are they in a remote and mediate capacity hereof and which by the use of means and blessing of God upon these means may in due time become actuall Nor can I think that all those who according to Mr. A's notion are or have been duly baptized have been in an actuall and present capacitie at the time of their baptizing to perform every Luke 3. 13. thing they engaged unto by being baptized They who as yet doubted whether John was the Messiah or no were not in a present or immediate capacitie of beeleeving Christ to be this Messiah yet were they ingaged by their being baptized to beleeve this and notwithstanding their actuall incapacitie of beleeving it were lawfully baptized So likewise they who think they truly beleeve and are supposed by others to beleeve accordingly and yet both these suppositions notwithstanding do not truly beleeve may and ought neverthelesse to be baptized yet are they in no actuall capacitie to perform that to which they engage by being baptized I mean to beleeve in Jesus Christ and to persevere beleeving unto the end Yea Mr. A. himself by being baptized ingaged to a perseverance in Faith and holinesse unto the end of his dayes yet was he not at the time of his baptism in an actuall capacitie to perform that which he engaged unto in this kind For a present standing in Grace or Faith is no more an actuall capacitie of persevering in either to the end of a mans life then a present healthfull state or condition of the body is an actuall capacitie of preserving himself in health untill he dieth or then the present possession of an estate worth 1000. l. per annum is an actuall capacitie in the possessor of paying a debt of a 1000. or 2000 l. twenty years after So then the difference which Mr. A. pretends to finde in the consideration before us between men and children in reference unto Baptism is altogether inconsiderable and turns to no account at all for the support of his cause Whether this second consideration which he supposeth may be the reason why Baptism is termed the Baptism of repentance for remission of sins be consistent with the first I shall not trouble the Reader to discusse but rather desire him to consider But Sect. 66. 3. He advanceth in his supposals about the businesse in hand thus p. 16. If it be called the Baptism of Repentance for the Remission of sins because God thereby signifies and SEALS unto men the remission of their sins upon their repentance this end and use likewise is BETTER answered in mens Baptism who do repent then in Infants who do not c. I answer 1. His conceit of any End or Vse of Baptism better answered in the baptism of men then of Infants hath been again again put to rebuke by the consideration of the Counsell of God himself in circumcision We shall not need to repeat the consideration here There was everywhit as much reason why it might have been said in the dayes of Circumcision that such such an End or Vse of Circumcision is better answered by the circumcising of men then of infants as it can be said under the Gospel that any End or Vse of Baptism is better answered by the baptizing of Men then of Children But 2. When he saith that the End of Baptism so with some regret of jealousie supposed by him is BETTER answered by the baptizing of men then of children doth he not very plainly imply and grant that this End is competently at least answered in the baptizing of children also If so then certainly the baptizing of children is neither a nullitie nor yet a thing unlawfull But this consequence the

my God is this the language of a Son of thine But alass all this is but a small first fruits of that large Harvest of those rank venemous viperous ulcerous fluxes of folly flesh and fierceness expressions of his own Genius which out of the abundance of his heart he hath poured forth upon the head of a person of signal worth and honour and who is a shining and burning light in his generation yea and hath done I verily beleeve more real service unto Jesus Christ and the precious souls of men then all the Anabaptists as such and whilest such in the Land that I say not in the world But with such stuff as this he evinceth Mr Baxters reports to be full of falshood and his arguments to be sophistical and silly And as for the notions grounds and principles upon which he asserteth his Ana-baptismal cause against him are they not very importune and burthensome to any intelligent and considering man Or are not these some of them and their fellows like unto them 1. That the true way of Baptism which we must suppose to be that way of Baptism wherein Mr Fisher § 6. Mr Fishers Principles and his party are ingaged is the strait and narrow way which leadeth unto life and which few find b Pag. 414. Doth not this evidently imply that Mr F s sence is that when our Saviour admonished his Disciples and others to enter in at the strait gate yea to strive to enter in at it because wide is the Gate and broad is the way which leadeth to destruction c. his meaning was that men should strive to be water-baptized and this by dipping and that by the wide Gate and broad way he meant either baptizing by washing without dipping or want of baptizing at all It is a wonder of the first Magnitude unto me how such a conceit as this should ●ver clime up into his fa●cy that by the strait and narrow way which leadeth unto life and which few find should be meant his way of baptizing Considering 1. That no man needs strive at all to be thus baptized all comers are entertained by the men of this way and all are freely admitted to walk in it who desire it 2. That this way can in no respect lightly imaginable by a s●ber man be termed strait or narrow Not 1. In respect of any great trouble or offensiveness to the flesh in the entrance into it at least not in reference to many constitutions especially in the hotter seasons of the yeer when both men and boys are wont to disport themselves by ducking and diving under water least of all in the hotter climates of the Earth where going into cool waters is matter of solace and pleasure as some of Mr Fishers own party do inform us And doubtless the narrow and strait way of which our Saviour speaks is one and the same in and unto all Nations and their respective Inhabitants Nor 2. Can this way be termed strait or narrow in respect of any disparagement or civil danger or disadvantage that is like to attend it at least when and where it is more generally practised as it was in our Saviour and John Baptists days when Jerusalem and all Judea and all the Region round about Jordan came unto John and were baptized of him Which notwithstanding it seems that Christ made and baptized more Disciples then John yea John's Disciples themselves complained unto him that all men came unto Christ meaning to be Baptized Least of all can it be attended with any matter of dishonour or dis-esteem when or where it is countenanced by the Civil Magistrate and places of honour trust and profit indifferently if not more frequently conferred upon men of this way as well as upon others which lately was and still is in part the condition of it in this State and Nation Considering 3. that it cannot be said of Mr Fisher's way of Baptism that few there are that find it at least if it be supposed to be the same way with that wherein John and Christ baptized For we lately heard that about the time when Christ spake the words Jerusalem and all Judea and all the Region about Jordan with vast multitudes besides had found the way of their Baptizing 4. That neither doth this way lead unto life otherwise then in conjunction with and by the mediation of Faith and Holiness without which no man shall see the Lord and in conjunction with and by the initiation of these Infant-Baptism and Baptism without Dipping will lead to life as well if not better then Mr Fisher's way of Baptizing Therefore however his way is not the strait and narrow way which leadeth unto life and which so few find Besides by his asserting such a principle as this he adjudgeth the whole Christian world ever since the days of Christ and his Apostles a very inconsiderable number only excepted unto the vengeance of eternal fire For how few of all that lovely and blessed generation I mean of Saints and holy men Martyrs and others have found entred or walked in Mr Fisher's way of Baptizing But it is no new thing for men who have a fancy of their own to lift up to Heaven to throw down whatsoever standeth in their way unto hell But the saying of Mr Baxter to Mr Tombs is very considerable at this turn It is saith he no small degree of evil that a man is fallen to when he dare slander or make infamous the whole or greatest part of all the holy Churches on Earth to maintain the reputation of his opinion a Plain Scripture Proof of Infants Church m●mbership c. p. 199. 2. Another Principle or Notion upon the credit § 7. whereof with importune confidence he builds his Anabaptismal Fabrique against Mr B. and whosoever is this That the children of the unbeleeving Jews are not broken off and excluded with their parents from Church and Covenant upon the account of their parents unbeleif only but for want of faith in their own persons c. b Baby-Baptism p. 110. How little truth yea or reason or sence there is in this Assertion especially if he intends it as he pretends to do in opposition to his Adversaries argument drawn from the Consideration of the breaking off of the Jews Children from the Covenant is evident from hence viz. that the children i. e. the Infants or young children for of these only his Adversaries speak of the Iews who were dis-covenanted by God had no more want of faith in their own persons then either Isaac or Iacob themselves whilest they were Infants like unto them and all the the children generally of this Nation whilst it remained upon the best and firmest terms in Covenant Therefore if their children were not cut off from Church or Covenant by God for want of Faith in their own persons neither is it Christianly reasonable to think or say that children of the latter Iews whose parents were dis-covenanted for

of a very pregnant import to acquit him in this kind Whatsoever is instituted by the madn●sse of men whereby any thing of Divine disposition is viola●ed or corrupted is adulterous is impious is sacrilegious a Adulte●m est i●pum est sacril●g●m est quicquid humano furere instituitur ●t d●spositio d●vi●a violetur Cypr. l 1. Ep. 8. He that shal at such a rate of severity as this censure condemn and abhominate all humane institutions whatsoever whereby any divine institution shall be prejudiced or corrupted cannot lightly especially being a person of singular integrity gravity piety and conscience be an Abettor or Patron of such institutions Mr. Tombs hath strained his wits and fancy to invent and devise what with any colour or shew of probability might first occasion Infant-Baptism in the Church But what he hath obtruded upon the world upon this account is so inconsiderable in it self and besides hath been so fully answered by others a Dr. Holms Animad upon M. Tombs Excercit c. p. 191 192 c. that I cannot judge it worth the Readers patience to hear any re-examination of it That which some pretend should move Pope Innocent to decree the baptizing of children viz. a desire to propagate and inlarge the Kingdom of Christ in the world is altogether impertinent to the businesse in hand For 1. The baptizing of Infants is famously known to have been practised in the Church some hundreds of years before this Pope was born therefore nothing could move him to decree the first introduction of it 2. Neither did he decree simply the practise of it but onely by his decree confirmed the practise of it or rather as the Pontifician Historians themselves report confirmed the practise or the necessity of the practise of it for the taking away of original sin or which is the same at least as he seems to have interpreted it for the inlargement of the Kingdom of Christ I confesse the practise we speak of Infant-Baptism is a means very proper for the inlargement of the Kingdom of Christ though not by taking away original sin but by a timely ingagement of the persons baptized to the obedience and service of Jesus Christ of which occasion may be to speak more hereafter And though it be supposed that they who practised Infant-Baptism long before this Innocent built their practise upon the same mistaken ground with him yet it followeth not from hence that therefore it was not practis●d by the Apostles in their daies but onely that they who used the practise after them were mistaken in the grounds upon which they the Apostles practised it Nor is the practise therefore to be esteemed or termed Antichristian because a Pope decreed the confirmation of it more then this Doctrine that Christ is the Holy One of God is to be esteemed Diabolical because the Divel preached or avouched it Mar. 1. 24. Luke 4. 43. Home to this point is this passage of the most learned and worthy Martyr Master J. Philpot formerly mentioned in that letter of his specified § 27. and 28. These authorities of m●n I do alledge● not to tie the Baptism of Children to the authorities of men but to shew how mens testimonies do agree with Gods Word and that the verity of Antiquity is on our side and that the Anabaptists have nothing but lies for them and new imaginations which FEIGN THE BAPTISM OF CHILDREN TO BEE THE POPES COMMANDEMENT Sect. 33. I expect none other but that to Mr. A. and men of his ingagement all these arguments and proofs of the baptizing of children in the Apostles daies will seem poor pedling and paltry For Mr. Fisher it seems never had the good hap to meet with any better from any of his adversaries then such yea and lest either he or his cause might suffer thorough want of confidence in the highest he affirms that God himself knows them to be no better a Baby-baptism p. 305. However I heartily wish that some one or other of their perswasion would exhibit and tender unto the world were it but the one half in evidence and pregnancy of proof against the lawfulnesse of Infant-Baptism of what hath been now delivered in the twelve Considerations propounded for the proof of Infant-Baptism in the Apostles daies that so the troublesome and tempestuous controversie about the appropriate subject of Baptism amongst the Saints might suddenly end in a sweet calm of love and peace For verily I have gone round about the whole body and Systeme of that Doctrine which so much magnifieth it self against infant-Baptism and have narrowly and with an un-prejudiced eye observed all the parts limbs and joynts thereof and cannot find so much as one sound member or clean joynt in it The whole structure and fabrique of it stands upon such foundations which either are sandy or loose or else irrelative to what is pretended to be built upon them and so are indeed no true foundations of this Doctrine though otherwise Truths But notwithstanding all that hath been said to prove Infants baptized in the Apostles days or as Mr. A. supposeth can be said he judgeth himself sufficiently enlightned to demonstrate the contrary But his allegations in this behalf being weighed in the ballance of the Sanctuary how light will they be found to be Sect. 34. To the first therefore I answer 1. By denying that the Mr. A's arguments for the nonadministration of Baptism to Infants in the Apostles daies answered Scripture is totally silent touching the baptizing of Infants within the times queried and that it no where directly or consequentially affirmeth or hinteth such a thing For the ground and reasonablenesse of this denial to spare repetitions as much as may be I appeal to the premises in the 24 and 25 Sections 2. For the rule which he cites from the Civil Law in these words that which appears not is not this Law indeed holds forth such a maxime is this Non esse non apparere aequiparatur in jure i. e. not to be and not to appear to be are of the same consideration in Law meaning that the Law takes no judiciary or penal cognisance of what appears not by proof to be more then it doth of that which simply is not But this rule maketh not at all for Mr. A. but rather as far as it relateth to his cause against him For 1. Infant-baptism doth as hath been proved appear and this by the light of the Scriptures to have been in the Apostles daies 2. Mr. A's rule it self now specified supposing a possibility of the real being of that which yet in Law appears not to be applied to his cause importeth a possibility of the practise of Infant-Baptism in the Apostles daies onely denying that though it were indeed then practised yet in as much as the practise appeareth not viz. to Mr. A. and men of his judgement for to many others it appeareth sufficiently it ought not to be avouched or supposed Those

this to prove that therefore his intent was to set forth the power and great success of the Gospel in these words they were baptiz●d men and women considering as hath been lately observed and proved viz. § 35 and 36. that in this verse he speaks of the beleeving of men and women as well as of their being baptized and that if there be any thing intended here to set forth the power and great successe of the Gospel it is projected rather by the mention of their beleeving Philip preaching the things of God and the name of Jesus Christ then by the mention of their baptism in as much as the Evangelist having frequent occasion elsewhere in this book to report the great successe of the Gospel still upon this account mentioneth onely the faith of those who were converted by it and not their baptism Besides Mr. A's supposal the ground of this vein of his discourse viz. that Luke speaks of the same generality of the people ver 12. of which he had spoken ver 10 11 where it was thus expressed To whom they all gave heed from the least to the greatest is not so authentique or clear For it is hardly credible that amongst the great numbers of the inhabitants of such a City as Samaria there should not be found so much as one unbeleever left upon the preaching of one Sermon onely Certain I am that there can be no instance produced from the Scripture of like nature or import Nor is it said v. 12. either that they beleeved Philip or were baptized from the greatest to the least Or if by this expression Mr. A. understandeth simply and absolutely the generality of the inhabitants of Samaria doth it not follow from his said supposition that as well children as men and women were here baptized unlesse he will either understand this expression from the least unto the greatest exclusively or else say that children are not to be numbred either amongst the least or the greatest nor yet amongst those that are between both But for a close of the point now in hand to give Mr. A. a brief account of his men and women with whom he hath had so much to do to so little purpose for his cause the reason why the Evangelist Luke having in the beginning of the verse mentioned the beleeving of the Samaritans without distinguishing the different sexes of those who beleeved in the latter part of the verse speaking of their baptizing distinguishing them into their respective sexes of men and women is to shew that though under the law the one sex onely that of men was capable of and admitted unto circumcision which was then the initiating Ordinance answering in that respect as in several others Baptism the successor of it under the Gospel yet now since the comming and suffering of Jesus Christ in the flesh both sexes as well women as men were made capable by God of being baptized This I beleeve is all the mystery that an intelligent Reader will find in the clause so much courted by Mr. A. to be friend him in his cause they were baptized hoth men and women Sect. 40. His third proof for his conceit of no Infant baptized in Mr. A. p. 6 7 Christs or the Apostles daies borrowed from Mar. 10. 13 14 15 16. wherein some are said to have brought young children to Christ p. 6 7. hath been already not onely answered but clearly argued and proved to make against him I presume a considering Reader will be of the same mind upon an attentive re-perusal of the 25th Section I shal here adde that the judgement and conscience of that learned and worthy Martyr Mr. John Philpot were so full of conviction and satisfaction touching the pregnant validity of this passage for Infant-baptism that in that Epistle of his formerly mentioned once and again upon the mention and recital of this clause Let the babes so he reads it come unto me he breaks forth with an holy indignation into this demand why then do not these rebellious Anabaptists obey the Commandement of the L●rd For what do they now a daies else that bring their children to Baptism then that they did in times past which brought their children to the Lord and our Lord received them and putting his hands on them blessed them c. And if Christ judged little children capable subjects of imposition of hand● which according to some of the most Seraphical Doctors themselves of the faith of Anabaptism is an Ordinance subsequent unto Baptism and not to be administred before it it roundly follows that these children brought to Christ had been baptized But either for Mr. F. the Mr. or for Mr. A. the Disciple to put us to prove by whom they were baptized is such a yoke as themselves are not able to bear no not in such cases where the demand of proof in that kind is much more reasonable For if we in arguing the controversie whether there can be no true Church of Christ and with which communion is lawfull without their baptism by dipping should put them upon proof by whom all and every the members of the 7 Churches of Asia were thus baptized or by whom those Christians mentioned Acts 5. 14. Acts 4. 4. and in many other places were after that manner baptized would they not cry out against such our demands as importune captious and unreasonable That Mr. Fisher Baby-Baptism p. 141. evasion of Mr. Fishers viz. that the imposition of hands here recorded to have been administred by Christ unto the children brought to him was another kind of imposition viz. that which was frequently used in order to cures or healings not that which pre-supposed baptism is magisterial enough as seventy times seven assertions more in the same book with it are but altogether proof-lesse The contrary hereunto is little lesse then clearly demonstrable upon these grounds 1. There is no intimation in the context that any of these children much lesse all of them were either sick or diseased Now there can I beleeve no instance be produced where any young or old either came or were brought to Christ to obtain any cure or healing from him whose infirmity or disease was not mentioned and named 2. Whereas all the miraculous cures wrought by Christ are either particularly as when he wrought but onely one or some few in the same place or else in the general as when he wrought many in places neer adjoyning recorded here is not the least or lightest mention in one kind or other of any cure wrought upon these children by him 3. Had the children been any waies sick or diseased it is at no hand credible that the Disciples would have rebuked those that brought them it would have argued want of common civility yea of humanity it self to have done it 4. The reason given by Christ unto his Disciples and in them unto others why they should rather countenance and further then restrain or hinder the accesse of little