Selected quad for the lemma: child_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
child_n	father_n	fear_v	pity_v	2,202	5	10.4985	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A85830	Shadowes without substance, or, Pretended new lights: together, with the impieties and blasphemies that lurk under them, further discovered and drawn forth into the light: in way of rejoynder unto Mr Iohn Saltmarsh his reply: entituled Shadowes flying away. Wherein nothing lesse is shewed to have been performed, then what the title page importeth; or the preface promiseth. As also, divers points of faith and passages of Scripture are vindicated and explained. / By Thomas Gataker, B. of D. and pastor of Rotherhith. Published by authority.	Gataker, Thomas, 1574-1654.	1646 (1646)	Wing G326; Thomason E353_25; ESTC R201089	123,738	127

to doe this had need shut his eyes very close that hee may not discerne that bright Sun-shine of light that through the whole word of God ever and anon breaks out and in most conspicuous manner off●re●h it selfe to his eye-sight able to pierce and strike through the very eye-lids of those that shall strive to wink strongest 6. God m●y be provoked by those very sins the guilt whereof is a●olished and done away in Christ for u Exod. 4.14 Moses his and x 2 Sam. 11.27 Davids were and yet was God provoked by them 7. T●o Christ hath taken away all the sins of his and by his sufferings made satifaction unto Gods justice for them yet doth it not thence follow that God therefore cannot either be angry with any of those for whose sins Christ hath satisfied or out of his paternall indignation and displeasure chastise them for their wilfull oversights and defaults What hee hath done we know he can and may doe and that the one doth no way crosse the other nor inferr or enforce a forbearance of the other Davids sins in his adulterie murther and numbring the people were satisfied for and taken away by Christ as well as a Matt. 26.70 75. Peters in the denyall of his Master or the sins of any other Saint and yet how sharply b 2 Sam. 12.10 11 13 14. 24.10 15. God chastised him for the same hee felt and by c Psal 32.3 4. 38 1 2 3. 51.8 14. his own acknowledgements wee know Nor can all your slie shifts serve to shield you from the guilt of palpable o●stinacie in opposing so expresse and cleer Scripture or to cover and conceale ei●her the nakednesse and sham●fulnesse of your cause or the shamelesnesse of your faces in the maintenance of it and of those things that doe of necessity thence ensue It was not the end of Christs sufferings to free any of those for whom hee suffered from God his and their Fathers usefull and needfull chastisements which are professed to proceed d Prov. 3.12 Heb 12.6 from his love and to be e Ps●l 9.12 Heb. 12.10 11. for their good much lesse was this the end of his satisfaction for their sins that they might have the rains let out loose to them and so to lie on their necks that they might freely follow the swinge of their corrupt nature or the remainders of it still abiding within them which you confesse to be so powerfull f Treat p. 51 59 62. as to carry them oft into the same and those great sins without check or controll But Sir what this doctrine tends to all men may soon see and as well those that abhorre it as those that are willing with open arms to entertain it Nor have any cause to wonder that all sorts of loose people doe by whole shoals flock to and run after those that teach it In many of whom what dreadfull and dismall effects it hath had tho I could give hideous instances yet I forbear to relate and proceed to the rest of your demands 8. I apprehend not any allegory yea or allusion in the words As a father ● Whether you understand thereby those words cited by mee in g Answer p. 19. mine Animadversion on your eighth Assertion which you seeem here to be nibling at h Psa 103.13 As a father pities his children so the Lord pitieth them that fear him or whether you have an eye to those of Solomon i Prov. 3.12 Whom the Lord loves hee chastiseth as the father doth the son whom hee delights in The same with that of Moses k Deut. 8.5 As a man chasteneth his son so the Lord thy God chasteneth thee And indeed what allegory or allusion is there in either What Scholer is there so simple that is not able to distinguish between either an allusion or an allegory and a direct plain and expresse similitude But Mr. S. it seems together with his Logick that does him so many shrewd turns hath cast off all his School-learning that hee may the better comply with those Sectaries who with open mouth cry it all down in these daies 9. That anger is in proprietie of speech given unto God tho both Stoicks and Epicures of old l Nec bene premeritis capitur nec tangitur ira Lucr. l. 1. 2. denied it is by m Ita eo sensu quo Scripturae dant illam Deo vere proprie ei attribuitur Zanc. de attri lib. 4. c. 6. q. 1. Thes 1. Deus peccatoribus tam electis qam reprobis irascitur Ib. Thes 2. some good Divines avowed But not to stand upon that but leave it to dispute in the Schooles Albeit that anger be not such in God as it is in man no more then love or hatred which yet are not denied to be spoken properly of God and indeed if the one which I suppose no man ever doubted of by necessary consequence then the other Yet the effects of anger as well as of love and hatred may be and are the same usually with God that they are with men As men out of love doe good to those whom they love and out of anger and displeasure chastise those whom they are displeased with and n Gen. 27.41 2 Sam. 13.22 28. Qem qisqe odit periisse expetit Cic. Offic. l. 2. 1 Joh. 3.15 seek to destroy those whom they hate so doth God likewise o Psal 11.7 do good to those whom hee loves and p Psal 89.32 chastiseth those whom hee is displeased with and q Psal 5.5 6. 11.5 6. destroyes those whom hee hates Which tho you seem bold enough to say any thing to support your own principles yet I le hope you dare not deny 10. What you tell us in an intricate discourse like a man in a wood that hath lost himselfe and knows not how to get out of expressions diverse in the old Testament and in the New is idle and frivolous and not at all to the purpose For 1. Those expressions and actions of this kinde recorded in the old Testament were not meer fictions and fancies as you would make them as if God were not at all displeased with David for his adultery nor was it indeed at all evill in his eye as of Abrahams deniall of his wife your brother Eaton r Hony-comb c. 5. p. 79 80. affirms but that hee made some shew or semblance onely as if hee were offended when as yet hee liked well enough what David had done or was not at least in regard of it the lesse pleased with him But Sir the Scripture expresly tels us that ſ 2 Sam. 11.27 the thing that David had done was evill in Gods eyes and David himselfe found and felt to his smart that Gods displeasure toward him was no imaginary matter but the fruits and effects of it reall arguments of tru wrath 2. The very same expressions are found

more then you there ●ad save a Magist●ri●ll and censorious reprehension of all others beside your self and those of your side in these words h Rep. p. 12 13. Whereas you say G d is as man and as a Father I hope you mean not as in him● lf but as in his wayes of speaking and appearing to us and if so we are agreed But your taking things more in the letter then in the spirit makes your divinity lesse divine and your conceptions more like things of men then of God This makes the glory ●f the G●sp●l so legall and carnall when wee rise no higher then the ba●e l●tter of Scripture not the inspiration by which it came All Scripture being given by inspiration Where Sir 1. You mangle my sayings after your wonted guise I say onely i Ans p. 19. In some things hee is as man and what I say I render reasons for more then one and instance in such things as you oppose all which you take no notice of A worthy manner of replying such as the meanest I say not Scholar but person whatsoever of common capacity might well be ashamed of 2. I shew that hee is so not in wayes of speaking and appearing onely as you speak as if in deed and truth hee were nothing lesse then what hee seemed to be and in such speakings were pretended but in reality and truth 3. Cleer your self if you can from guilt of blasphemie for averring that k Exod. 34 6. God in way of speaking and appearance only proclaimed himself to Moses a God mercifull and gracious slow to wrath and abundant in goodnesse and truth and that Moses in way of speaking and appearance onely told the people what so seriously hee advised them to l D●ut 8.5 consider that as a man chasteneth his son so God chastened them And that the Psalmist spake in the like strain when hee saith m Psa 103.13 As a father pitieth his children so the Lord pitieth those that fear him for that is the instance I there bring which you were nibling at here before 4. Sir we dare not allegorize the Scriptures where the letter of it yeelds us a cleer and proper sense much lesse expect such new inspirations as the Enthusiasts of our times whom you seem over-much to comply with pretend that they may obtrude on us their vain and profane fancies in stead of Gods sacred Oracles 5. What you conclude with that Scripture was given by inspiration who denies but what followeth thence I beseech you that therefore wee must rise higher then the letter of the Scripture and expect some new revelation for the raising of some other spirituall sense of it then the letter will afford This is a way to draw n Qod de Rabbinis Judaicis Constant Emperat ad Dan. 10.1 De nostris etiam qibusdam Sixt. Amam videndus Antibarb Bibl. l. 1. err 7. pag. 256. c. quidlibet ex quolibet and to make the Scripture o Nasum cereum uti Pontificii a nose of wax that men may wind and turn which way they list as their quaint fancies and wanton wits are pleased to play with it for Sir was not p 2 Tim. 3.16 every parcell of Scripture whether Historicall or Doctrinall given by inspiration as well as any one of it But this is not unlike that idle dotage of the Jewish Doctors who tell us that * Menach in Gen. 29. every Scripture hath seventy severall faces or senses and the Popish conceit of four severall sorts of interpretation of Scripture which our Writers do justly oppose Nor could I therefore I confesse without much grief of mind yea and some kind of godly I hope indignation read what I lately lighted on among some Treatises of a Protestant Writer of no small note lately published a q L. C. Exercitatio ad locum Zoharis large discourse wherein this mysticall manner of expounding plain and historicall passages of Scripture by I know not what analogicall and allegoricall senses is not justified onely but highly commended and a great deale of pains taken in relating translating and unfolding for a pattern thereof a most absurd ridiculous and putid explication or profanation rather of some r Gen. 2.4 5 6 few verses in a passage of Moses concerning the creation taken out of one of those Jewish brainsick and fantasticall Writers And truly I could not but wonder not a little that one of that learning and piety that I presume him to be of nor dare otherwise to deem and whom ever since I have been acquainted with his Writings I have ever in either regard reverendly esteemed and still shall could induce his minde to undertake such a work as to commend to students in Divinity that course and practice wherein hee could not but know how fouly divers of the Ancients had failed and faulted and whereby some of them had taken occasion to broach and bring in many erroneous both fond and impious conceits or could endure to waste so much precious time and serious study in beating out and laying open that intricate texture and prolix train of most uncouth and unsavoury fancies wherewith that addle-headed Writer hath cloyed and clogged that Scripture the very bare reading whereof were enough to turn any judicious mans stomack and alone sufficient to make a religious spirit zealous and jealous of preserving Gods sacred oracles in their genuine purity and simplicity to abhorre and abomitate such irreverent and irreligious abuse of them in writhing and wrigling them to and fro as some ſ Nihil qaerendum in verbis nisi loqentium voluntas cui demonstrandae invigilare debent omnes veridici enarratores Aug. de cons Evang. lib. 2. cap. 46. Mysterium ex rebus qibusvis obviis apertis effodere eorum est qi via hominum pervulgata sapere fastidiunt qae res saepe excidit in febriculosam putiditatem Cun. de Rep. Hebr. lib. 3. cap. 5. puppet-like artifice to make them expresse varietie of forms and shapes as such did this one while and that another things as much discrepant one from another as all of them from the truth of the text and * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Marc. Imp. l. 7. Sect. 3. qae nervorum sive verticillorum opera pro tractantis arbitrio attracta citaqe varias subinde figuras exprimebant De his Arist nom de mund c. 6. Xenoph. in Sympos Petron. in Satyr wringing that out of them that they neither speak directly nor by just consequence flows from them nor can be proved ever to have t Litera sua●iter excutienda non more captivorum acerbe torquenda donec restituat qod non accepit Joan. Sarisb Metalog l. 3. c. 1. been intended in them This I thought good to give an item of by the way the rather because I perceive too much liberty in these licentious times taken by divers and the people much applauding them who play and dally

came to call sinners yea but you know also what followeth d Matt. 9.13 to call sinners to repentance to save sinners but not unlesse they repent for e Luk. 13.3 5. unlesse they repent they shall perish notwithstanding his coming to save himselfe saith it But we shall not need stand longer to debate the matter with you your selfe in the close are pleased to close with us and after all your long excursion and heaps of impertinent discourse to conclude against your selfe For when you say f Reply ibid. You speak of such to whom Christ gives power to receive him and to beleeve on him It is just as much as if you had said Not of sinners as sinners but such sinners as have power given them to receive Christ and beleeve on him And do or can any but repentant and humbled sinners so doe And yet your second Assertion excepted against implies that they may But thus Sir as the common saying is When you have given as you suppose it a great deale of good milk much matter to little purpose at length with your heel you kick down the pail and spill all Or rather to shew us your skill at fast and loose g 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Aes●hyl Gypsie-like you knit us a number of knots and then to ease us of the labour with whom you deem them indissoluble you loose them all again your selfe in a trice And all therefore that hath been here said is rather to satisfie others then to answer ought that you oppose your selfe having in fine so concluded the matter that no other answer needs then your own But passe wee on to your third Assertion wherein you either deride or pitie them as * Treat p. 171 173. melancholick creatures who suppose that God may be provoked to wrath by his childrens sins and may chastise them for the same In defence whereof you reply thus with a multitude of queries h Rep. p. 11 94. Can God be as the sonne of man Is there any variablenesse or shadow of change with him Can hee love and not love Doth hee hate persons or sins Is hee said to chastise as fathers otherwise then in expressions after the manner of men because of the infirmities of our flesh must we conceive so of God as of one another Can he be provoked for sins done and abolished Hath Christ taken away all the sin of his Hath he born all upon his body or no Speak we of anger otherwise then by way of allusion and allegory as a Father c. and is that He is a Father after the manner of men Or speaks he not in the old Testament according to the revelation of himself there and in the new Testament of himselfe now only because of our infirmitie and his own manner of appearing which is not yet so but we may bear him in such expressions and yet not so in such expressions but we may see more of him and his love and the glory of salvation in other expressions and not make up such a love as you commonly doe of Benevolence and Complacence i 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 praecipit Arist Top. l. 6. c. 1. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The manner of those that would not have something discovered is k Gen. 31.34 Josh 2.6 Acum in acere Scal. de subt ex 216. to hide it in a heap of some heterogeneous matter In like manner doe you Sir your answer here to the point charged upon you in a multitude of impertinent demands and hook in such things here without any removall of it that belong to another place It would be but lost labour tho it might render you ridiculous to take the subject matter of your severall demands and by making mediums of them shew how your Assertions are proved by them Letting that passe therefore especialy dealing with one that renounceth reasoning I shall return distinct answers to each of them in order 1. God may be and is in some things as the son of man for proof whereof I turn you over to l Answer p. 19. mine Answer and the Arguments there used which if you meant to reply to you ought to refute Nor is it a sound reasoning or good consequence God in some things to wit such as argue some imperfection or faultinesse is not like unto man nor can do as man doth he is not like man m Tit. 1.2 to lye or n Num. 23.19 1 Sam. 15.29 to repent or o 2 Tim 2.13 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Greg. Naz. ad Eunom 4. Hae● posse non potentia sed impotentia est Anselm prosol cap. 7. to deny himselfe he cannot lie or repent or deny himself as man sometime doth Therefore he is in nothing like to man nor can he do in ought as man doth Or therefore hee is not like man in being provoked to wrath by his children or in chastising them when they do amisse Sir your Logick had you not left it or laid it aside would have taught you that * Syllogizari non est ex particulari a particular will not inferre an universall nor one particular an other 2. Tho there be p Jam. 1.17 no variablenesse or shadow of change with God in regard of his essence and nature or in regard of his affection to good or evill as if at some time he should dislike and disallow sin and at other times like and allow it yea q Ibid. v. 13. tempt and incline to it that which the Apostle in those words principally aimed at which is not commonly observed Yet in regard of his disposition and dispensations toward the creature hee carrieth himselfe in divers and various waies hee loved liked approved of and was well pleased with those Angels before they fell while they continued in their originall estate whom yet r 2 Pet. 2.4 Jude 6. after their apostasie hee hated abhorred disapproved and so far forth was displeased with as to adjudge unto eternall torments and throw them headlong into hell 3. Tho God cannot both love and not love taking love in both members alike or love and hate for that implies a contradiction yet may he * Amat irascitur dici potest Amat e●it dici non potest Aug. homil 5. 40. love and be angry too yea therefore be be angry because hee loves As a father may be very angry with that childe whom hee loves most deerly yea be the more angry with him because he loves him so deerly 4. God both ſ Psal 45.7 Zech. 8.17 hates sinne and t Pro. 6.16 19. Psal 5.5 11.5 Zech. 11.8 hates persons for sin and hates sin in those also whose persons he loves 5. God is truely and really said to chastise his as parents doe children by inflicting on them reall and penall things in way of correction for their sins therein intending their amendment and to make them examples unto others And hee that intendeth