society_n to_o end_n in_o monarchy_n whether_o will_v it_o not_o follow_v that_o the_o government_n of_o church_n must_v so_o end_v as_o well_o as_o that_o congregation_n must_v depend_v on_o the_o government_n of_o synod_n because_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v a_o communion_n in_o government_n to_o other_o society_n and_o whether_o the_o multitude_n of_o grecian_n and_o hebrew_n who_o châ—se_v the_o seven_o deacon_n acts._n 6._o be_v two_o congregation_n or_o one_o only_a page_n 159._o chap._n 21._o whether_o congregation_n may_v be_v excommunicate_v by_o class_n and_o synod_n by_o virtue_n of_o those_o word_n mat._n 18._o tell_v the_o church_n as_o contain_v a_o rule_n and_o remedy_n for_o all_o offence_n or_o at_o the_o least_o a_o church_n remedy_n for_o the_o offence_n of_o church_n and_o church_n member_n and_o if_o yea_o whether_o it_o will_v not_o thereupon_o follow_v that_o a_o national_n church_n must_v have_v the_o benefit_n of_o this_o remedy_n as_o well_o as_o other_o and_o so_o have_v no_o independency_n of_o jurisdiction_n within_o itself_o but_o be_v subject_n to_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o general_n counsel_n which_o yet_o mr._n rutherford_n do_v deny_v page_n 164._o chap._n 22._o when_o the_o supreme_a magistrate_n be_v a_o profess_a enemy_n to_o religion_n whether_o then_o it_o be_v likely_a and_o usual_a that_o the_o great_a part_n of_o the_o people_n be_v sincere_o religious_a and_o whether_o when_o the_o great_a part_n be_v enemy_n with_o their_o magistrate_n it_o be_v then_o the_o duty_n of_o a_o few_o that_o be_v sincere_a to_o assemble_v in_o a_o national_n synod_n and_o there_o to_o enter_v into_o a_o national_n covenant_n and_o also_o to_o enjoin_v the_o same_o unto_o that_o great_a part_n page_n 170._o chap._n 23._o whether_o the_o word_n church_n be_v not_o give_v to_o a_o single_a congregation_n and_o whether_o a_o congregation_n be_v a_o company_n or_o church-meeting_n only_o for_o word_n and_o sacrament_n and_o not_o for_o any_o other_o spiritual_a duty_n and_o whether_o the_o divers_a duty_n 1._o of_o word_n and_o sacrament_n 2._o of_o discipline_n etc._n etc._n must_v needs_o argue_v divers_a church_n page_n 175._o chap._n 24_o whether_o those_o child_n of_o israel_n numb_a 8._o 10._o who_o lay_v hand_n on_o the_o levite_n be_v elder_n by_o office_n and_o as_o so_o consider_v do_v lay_v on_o their_o hand_n and_o whether_o this_o scripture_n do_v not_o prove_v that_o where_o there_o be_v no_o elder_n to_o be_v have_v there_o some_o principal_a member_n though_o no_o elder_n by_o office_n may_v impose_v hand_n on_o church-officer_n page_n 180_o chap._n 25._o whether_o a_o minister_n call_v consist_v in_o election_n or_o imposition_n of_o hand_n and_o whether_o of_o these_o be_v great_a and_o whether_o be_v prior_n or_o posterior_n whether_o 1_o tim._n 4._o 14._o acts._n 6_o 2_o 3_o 4._o acts._n 13._o 1_o 2_o 3._o do_v prove_v that_o the_o minister_n call_v consist_v in_o imposition_n of_o hand_n by_o the_o presbeterie_n and_o that_o such_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v not_o a_o consummatory_n rite_n or_o benedictory_n sign_n also_o whether_o rom._n 10._o 15._o do_v prove_v that_o a_o man_n can_v be_v a_o minister_n except_o some_o presbytery_n ordain_v he_o before_o the_o people_n choose_v he_o and_o whether_o otherwise_o the_o people_n do_v send_v a_o minister_n to_o themselves_o and_o whether_o the_o people_n of_o god_n may_v not_o as_o well_o discern_v a_o man_n fitness_n to_o be_v ordain_v as_o his_o fitness_n to_o be_v elect_v page_n 196._o chap._n 26._o whether_o the_o epistle_n to_o timothy_n and_o titus_n wherein_o there_o be_v contain_v rule_n of_o direction_n in_o lay_v on_o of_o hand_n do_v prove_v that_o this_o action_n may_v not_o in_o any_o case_n be_v perform_v by_o non-officer_n but_o must_v be_v perform_v only_o by_o presbytery_n and_o whether_o the_o argument_n do_v not_o make_v as_o strong_o for_o the_o appropriate_a of_o lay_v on_o of_o hand_n to_o the_o prelate_n as_o to_o the_o presbytery_n and_o do_v not_o as_o well_o exclude_v the_o presbytery_n from_o meddle_v therein_o as_o exclude_v the_o people_n page_n 206._o to_o the_o christian_a reader_n in_o the_o year_n 1643._o there_o come_v forth_o a_o treatise_n against_o independency_n under_o the_o name_n of_o my_o reverend_n and_o learned_a brother_n mr._n charles_n herle_n the_o pastor_n of_o winwick_n in_o lancashire_n this_o treatise_n because_o it_o seem_v to_o be_v write_v with_o such_o a_o candid_a and_o peaceable_a spirit_n as_o may_v witness_v for_o its_o author_n that_o the_o thing_n he_o aim_v at_o therein_o be_v mere_o the_o disquisition_n of_o the_o truth_n and_o because_o the_o author_n thereof_o be_v many_o year_n ago_o of_o my_o reverend_a brother_n mr._n tompsons_n acquaintance_n and_o i_o therefore_o we_o think_v it_o may_v not_o be_v in_o vain_a if_o we_o shall_v love_o communicate_v to_o the_o learned_a author_n such_o apprehension_n of_o we_o whereby_o we_o be_v detain_v from_o concur_v with_o his_o judgement_n in_o the_o principal_a question_n dispute_v in_o the_o say_a treatise_n and_o therefore_o in_o the_o latter_a end_n of_o the_o same_o year_n there_o come_v forth_o a_o small_a script_n under_o our_o name_n in_o way_n of_o a_o brotherly_a answer_n to_o that_o his_o love_a and_o learned_a treatise_n against_o this_o answer_n mr._n samuel_n rutherford_n a_o learned_a writer_n of_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n have_v allege_v and_o publish_v many_o objection_n exception_n and_o answer_n in_o his_o book_n entitle_v the_o due_a right_n of_o presbytery_n i_o may_v call_v they_o many_o because_o in_o that_o treatise_n of_o his_o there_o be_v no_o less_o than_o 24_o or_o 25_o several_a place_n wherein_o he_o bring_v up_o by_o name_n the_o say_a answer_n dispute_v against_o sundry_a passage_n therein_o as_o if_o they_o be_v not_o sound_a which_o passage_n if_o they_o be_v indeed_o erroneous_a and_o unsound_a be_v a_o great_a many_o to_o be_v contain_v and_o find_v in_o so_o small_a a_o work_n the_o whole_a book_n as_o it_o be_v now_o print_v contain_v in_o it_o 30._o leaf_n so_o that_o the_o leaf_n in_o the_o book_n be_v not_o much_o more_o than_o the_o place_n therein_o which_o this_o learned_a writer_n do_v object_n against_o which_o be_v consider_v i_o think_v it_o therefore_o needful_a to_o peruse_v and_o weigh_v as_o the_o lord_n shall_v help_v the_o several_a place_n of_o his_o forementioned_a treatise_n wherein_o he_o deal_v against_o the_o say_a answer_n and_o have_v so_o do_v i_o here_o present_a my_o apprehension_n to_o public_a view_n leave_v the_o prudent_a and_o judicious_a reader_n to_o consider_v and_o judge_v whether_o this_o reverend_a and_o learned_a brother_n have_v sufficient_o overthrow_v or_o weak'n_v the_o say_a answer_n or_o whether_o the_o same_o do_v not_o still_o remain_v agreeable_a to_o the_o rule_n of_o truth_n notwithstanding_o his_o objection_n against_o the_o same_o or_o such_o answer_n as_o he_o do_v return_v to_o several_a passage_n therein_o chap._n i._n of_o appeal_v from_o particular_a congregation_n and_o the_o true_a cause_n of_o appeal_v and_o whether_o by_o mr._n rutherford_n his_o doctrine_n in_o this_o point_n there_o may_v not_o be_v appeal_v to_o general_a council_n who_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n he_o do_v yet_o deny_v first_o of_o all_o in_o his_o page_n 315._o for_o that_o be_v the_o first_o place_n wherein_o i_o find_v he_o meddle_v with_o the_o answer_n speak_v of_o doubt_n concern_v math._n 18._o 17._o tell_v the_o church_n in_o a_o 9_o the_o objection_n about_o that_o scripture_n beside_o other_o particular_n he_o have_v these_o word_n viz._n there_o be_v no_o reason_n to_o appeal_v to_o a_o high_a judicature_n because_o the_o inferior_a may_v err_v because_o all_o above_o a_o congregation_n be_v court_n which_o may_v err_v presbytery_n provincial_n national_n the_o universal_a council_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n may_v err_v and_o then_o for_o author_n of_o this_o part_n of_o the_o objection_n he_o subjoin_v my_o name_n and_o answer_v to_o mr._n herle_v cap._n 2._o pag._n 13_o 14._o answ_n when_o he_o be_v discourse_v of_o doubt_n concern_v that_o scripture_n math_n 18._o tell_v the_o church_n i_o know_v no_o reason_n why_o he_o shall_v bring_v those_o word_n of_o i_o at_o such_o a_o time_n or_o for_o such_o a_o purpose_n for_o though_o i_o do_v acknowledge_v that_o i_o write_v the_o word_n which_o he_o have_v set_v down_o or_o such_o like_a in_o the_o place_n by_o he_o allege_v yet_o that_o they_o be_v bring_v by_o i_o for_o such_o purpose_n as_o he_o do_v report_n viz._n for_o the_o clear_n of_o doubt_n concern_v the_o meaning_n of_o math._n 18_o 17._o that_o i_o do_v utter_o deny_v he_o that_o shall_v look_v upon_o the_o chapter_n and_o page_n allege_v will_v find_v that_o i_o do_v not_o there_o meddle_v at_o all_o
allege_v do_v abundant_o and_o plain_o prove_v the_o point_n in_o hand_n and_o therefore_o mr._n rutherford_n shall_v bear_v with_o we_o if_o we_o sometime_o argue_v from_o example_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n as_o for_o that_o which_o follow_v where_o he_o say_v but_o our_o brethren_n hold_v that_o the_o call_n of_o the_o levite_n and_o of_o the_o pastor_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n be_v different_a as_o the_o officer_n and_o church_n of_o the_o jewish_a and_o christian_a church_n be_v different_a the_o answer_n be_v that_o i_o do_v not_o remember_v that_o we_o have_v speak_v one_o word_n of_o this_o matter_n either_o one_o way_n or_o other_o nor_o do_v he_o mention_v any_o place_n where_o we_o have_v speak_v aught_o of_o these_o thing_n and_o for_o the_o thing_n itself_o though_o many_o difference_n may_v be_v assign_v between_o the_o levite_n and_o pastor_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n and_o between_o the_o jewish_a and_o christian_a church_n yet_o i_o know_v no_o such_o difference_n between_o they_o but_o that_o in_o thing_n which_o be_v of_o general_a and_o common_a nature_n concern_v they_o both_o in_o those_o we_o may_v lawful_o argue_v from_o they_o and_o their_o time_n unto_o ourselves_o and_o our_o time_n if_o mr._n rutherford_n know_v we_o have_v give_v any_o such_o difference_n as_o will_v not_o suffer_v we_o thus_o to_o argue_v when_o he_o shall_v express_v the_o same_o we_o may_v consider_v further_o thereof_o our_o brethren_n grant_v pag._n 49._o that_o it_o want_v all_o example_n in_o the_o new_a testament_n that_o the_o people_n lie_v on_o hand_n answ_n and_o we_o have_v also_o in_o the_o same_o pag._n 49._o render_v the_o reason_n hereof_o viz._n because_o elder_n then_o be_v not_o want_v why_o then_o do_v not_o our_o brother_n ingenuity_n so_o far_o prevail_v with_o he_o as_o to_o mention_v this_o when_o he_o mention_v the_o other_o however_o yet_o this_o he_o may_v be_v please_v to_o observe_v that_o as_o we_o grant_v the_o thing_n he_o speak_v of_o so_o themselves_o i_o think_v must_v grant_v also_o that_o it_o want_v all_o example_n in_o the_o new_a testament_n where_o ordinary_a elder_n do_v impose_v hand_n on_o ordinary_a elder_n for_o my_o part_n i_o remember_v none_o nor_o do_v i_o remember_v that_o themselves_o have_v yet_o produce_v any_o these_o who_o lay_v on_o hand_n on_o the_o levite_n numb_a 8._o be_v elder_n and_o our_o brethren_n say_v it_o be_v like_a they_o be_v but_o 1._o they_o do_v not_o as_o elder_n 2._o but_o as_o represent_v the_o people_n not_o as_o elder_n civil_a for_o that_o belong_v to_o aaron_n and_o his_o son_n levit._n 8._o else_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o where_o a_o church_n have_v no_o magistrate_n to_o lay_v on_o hand_n there_o the_o church_n may_v do_v it_o nor_o do_v they_o lie_v on_o hand_n as_o ecclesiastical_a elder_n because_o what_o these_o which_o lay_v on_o hand_n do_v they_o do_v as_o from_o the_o congregation_n for_o 1._o these_o levite_n be_v take_v in_o stead_n of_o the_o first_o bear_v of_o israel_n and_o not_o instead_o of_o the_o first_o bear_v of_o the_o elder_n only_o numb_a 3._o 40_o 41._o 2_o they_o be_v present_v to_o the_o lord_n as_o a_o offering_n of_o the_o child_n of_o israel_n not_o of_o the_o elder_n only_o 3._o when_o the_o multitude_n bring_v a_o oblation_n the_o elder_n put_v their_o hand_n on_o the_o head_n of_o the_o sacrifice_n levit._n 4._o 15._o instead_o of_o all_o the_o multitude_n answ_n in_o relate_v this_o passage_n our_o meaning_n be_v exceed_o mistake_v and_o both_o our_o meaning_n and_o our_o word_n represent_v far_o amiss_o unto_o the_o reader_n the_o particular_n which_o in_o this_o respect_n may_v be_v except_v against_o be_v such_o as_o these_o 1._o that_o report_v we_o to_o say_v it_o be_v like_a they_o who_o lay_v on_o hand_n be_v elder_n he_o there_o break_v off_o the_o speech_n and_o so_o suppress_v that_o which_o follow_v wherein_o we_o first_o of_o all_o do_v give_v a_o explication_n in_o what_o respect_n they_o may_v be_v say_v to_o be_v elder_n viz._n as_o be_v the_o chief_a and_o principal_a member_n of_o the_o congregation_n and_o next_o of_o all_o we_o do_v add_v that_o nevertheless_o therein_o example_n do_v prove_v the_o point_n if_o two_o thing_n be_v consider_v which_o there_o we_o do_v express_v but_o both_o these_o particular_n i_o mean_v both_o the_o explication_n and_o the_o addition_n or_o exception_n be_v whole_o suppress_v by_o mr._n rutherford_n and_o so_o the_o concession_n it_o be_v like_a they_o be_v elder_n be_v leave_v stand_v alone_o by_o itself_o 2._o he_o report_v we_o to_o say_v they_o do_v it_o not_o as_o elder_n civil_a for_o that_o belong_v to_o aaron_n and_o his_o son_n wherein_o he_o father_n on_o we_o a_o palpable_a error_n of_o account_v aaron_n and_o his_o son_n to_o be_v elder_n civil_a or_o magistrate_n which_o never_o come_v into_o our_o thought_n nay_o it_o be_v so_o far_o from_o we_o that_o we_o plain_o say_v the_o contrary_a in_o that_o very_a place_n to_o wit_n that_o they_o be_v elder_n ecclesiastical_a our_o word_n be_v these_o if_o they_o that_o be_v the_o child_n of_o israel_n do_v it_o as_o elder_n then_o either_o as_o elder_n and_o governor_n ecclesiastical_a or_o as_o civil_a governor_n but_o not_o the_o first_o for_o that_o charge_n belong_v to_o aaron_n and_o his_o son_n levit._fw-la 8._o and_o these_o levite_n now_o ordain_v in_o which_o word_n we_o plain_o ascribe_v to_o aaron_n and_o his_o son_n the_o charge_n of_o elder_n and_o governor_n ecclesiastical_a but_o not_o of_o civil_a governor_n as_o mr._n rutherford_n be_v please_v to_o report_v 3._o in_o these_o word_n else_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o where_o a_o church_n have_v no_o magistrate_n to_o lay_v on_o hand_n there_o the_o church_n may_v do_v it_o our_o word_n be_v so_o miserable_o mangle_v that_o no_o tolerable_a sense_n can_v appear_v for_o here_o be_v express_v a_o inference_n or_o consequence_n that_o must_v follow_v and_o yet_o no_o ground_n or_o antecedent_n at_o all_o from_o which_o it_o shall_v follow_v which_o be_v to_o represent_v we_o to_o the_o world_n as_o man_n that_o be_v loesi_fw-la cerebro_fw-la for_o man_n that_o be_v in_o their_o right_a wit_n i_o conceive_v will_v scarce_o ever_o argue_v in_o this_o fashion_n as_o here_o we_o be_v report_v to_o do_v but_o our_o word_n be_v these_o if_o the_o second_o be_v say_v viz._n that_o the_o child_n of_o israel_n do_v lay_v on_o hand_n as_o civil_a governor_n than_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o civil_a magistrate_n though_o no_o church-officer_n may_v impose_v hand_n in_o ordination_n of_o church-officer_n and_o so_o the_o point_n be_v gain_v viz._n that_o church-officer_n may_v be_v ordain_v by_o those_o that_o be_v no_o church-officer_n which_o we_o do_v further_o manifest_v in_o the_o follow_a word_n in_o this_o manner_n if_o the_o magistrate_n may_v do_v it_o than_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o a_o church_n that_o have_v no_o magistrate_n may_v perform_v this_o action_n by_o other_o the_o fit_a instrument_n she_o have_v for_o which_o we_o there_o give_v this_o ground_n for_o that_o this_o be_v not_o a_o work_n proper_o tie_v to_o the_o magistrate_n office_n because_o then_o the_o church_n in_o the_o apostle_n time_n want_v magistrate_n can_v not_o have_v have_v officer_n the_o contrary_a whereof_o we_o say_v be_v manifest_a in_o the_o scripture_n act._n 14._o 13._o tit._n 1._o 5._o this_o be_v our_o manner_n of_o argue_v in_o the_o place_n allege_v which_o be_v far_o different_a from_o that_o which_o mr._n rutherford_n report_v as_o we_o 4._o whereas_o he_o report_v we_o to_o say_v nor_o do_v they_o lie_v on_o hand_n as_o ecclesiastical_a elder_n because_o what_o these_o which_o lie_v on_o hand_n do_v they_o do_v as_o from_o the_o congregation_n in_o this_o he_o also_o report_v we_o to_o speak_v quite_o beside_o our_o plain_a meaning_n and_o express_v word_n for_o whereas_o he_o so_o set_v down_o this_o sentence_n as_o that_o the_o latter_a clause_n or_o branch_n therein_o be_v make_v the_o reason_n of_o the_o former_a the_o truth_n be_v this_o that_o these_o clause_n in_o the_o answer_n have_v no_o dependence_n the_o one_o upon_o the_o other_o at_o all_o but_o the_o former_a have_v another_o reason_n give_v for_o it_o which_o here_o be_v not_o mention_v and_o the_o latter_a which_o be_v here_o mention_v as_o the_o reason_n of_o the_o former_a be_v not_o so_o mention_v by_o we_o but_o for_o another_o end_n and_o purpose_n touch_v the_o former_a of_o these_o two_o when_o we_o say_v that_o the_o child_n of_o israel_n do_v not_o impose_v hand_n on_o the_o levite_n as_o ecclesiastical_a elder_n the_o reason_n we_o give_v for_o this_o say_n be_v this_o because_o that_o charge_n be_v only_o belong_v to_o aaron_n
and_o his_o son_n and_o those_o levite_n now_o ordain_v which_o reason_n mr._n rutherford_n never_o mention_n but_o mention_n another_o speech_n as_o our_o reason_n which_o be_v deliver_v by_o we_o for_o another_o purpose_n the_o like_a measure_n do_v he_o afford_v to_o we_o in_o the_o second_o branch_n of_o the_o sentence_n by_o he_o express_v for_o whereas_o we_o give_v two_o reason_n of_o the_o main_a thing_n in_o question_n that_o this_o example_n of_o the_o child_n of_o israel_n impose_v hand_n on_o the_o levite_n do_v prove_v that_o in_o some_o case_n non-officer_n may_v impose_v hand_n upon_o church_n officer_n the_o one_o because_o what_o these_o child_n of_o israel_n do_v they_o do_v it_o not_o as_o elder_n the_o other_o that_o what_o they_o do_v they_o do_v it_o not_o for_o themselves_o alone_o but_o for_o all_o the_o congregation_n mr._n rutherford_n apply_v not_o these_o two_o reason_n to_o the_o thing_n in_o question_n as_o they_o be_v apply_v by_o we_o but_o instead_o thereof_o make_v one_o of_o they_o to_o be_v a_o reason_n of_o the_o other_o which_o be_v no_o part_n of_o our_o meaning_n nor_o can_v just_o be_v gather_v from_o our_o word_n this_o be_v say_v for_o clear_v this_o passage_n of_o we_o from_o his_o manifold_a mistake_n let_v we_o now_o hear_v his_o answer_n pag._n 49â—_n these_o who_o lay_v on_o hand_n do_v it_o as_o a_o work_n peculiar_a to_o the_o elder_n because_o the_o elder_n be_v a_o part_n of_o the_o first_o bear_v who_o by_o office_n be_v elder_n and_o in_o who_o stead_n the_o levite_n be_v assume_v numb_a 3._o 40_o 41._o answ_n if_o the_o elder_n be_v but_o a_o part_n of_o the_o first_o bear_v then_o how_o can_v all_o the_o first_o bear_v be_v elder_n by_o office_n or_o if_o all_o the_o first_o bear_v be_v by_o office_n elder_n then_o how_o can_v the_o elder_n be_v but_o a_o part_n of_o the_o first_o bear_v these_o thing_n seem_v not_o to_o be_v here_o but_o be_v it_o so_o that_o the_o elder_n be_v a_o part_n of_o the_o first_o bear_v as_o here_o be_v affirm_v how_o do_v this_o prove_v that_o they_o who_o lay_v on_o hand_n do_v it_o as_o a_o work_n peculiar_a to_o the_o elder_n be_v there_o any_o necessary_a or_o clear_a consequence_n in_o such_o a_o proposition_n for_o my_o part_n i_o see_v it_o not_o but_o on_o the_o contrary_a i_o suppose_v it_o be_v certain_a that_o the_o elder_n may_v be_v part_n or_o all_o of_o the_o first_o bear_v and_o yet_o they_o who_o do_v the_o work_n of_o impose_v hand_n may_v neither_o impose_v as_o elder_n nor_o of_o necessity_n be_v elder_n though_o in_o the_o sense_n express_v in_o the_o answer_n i_o will_v not_o deny_v but_o there_o may_v be_v elder_n that_o be_v chief_a and_o principal_a member_n of_o the_o congregation_n but_o if_o this_o be_v grant_v in_o the_o sense_n express_v must_v it_o need_v follow_v that_o they_o impose_v hand_n as_o elder_n and_o as_o elder_n by_o office_n too_o can_v a_o man_n sustain_v no_o relation_n but_o all_o his_o action_n must_v be_v action_n of_o that_o relation_n can_v a_o man_n be_v a_o husband_n or_o a_o parent_n etc._n etc._n but_o his_o action_n of_o plough_v sow_v etc._n etc._n must_v needs_o be_v perform_v by_o he_o as_o he_o be_v a_o husband_n or_o parent_n can_v a_o minister_n pray_v in_o his_o family_n instruct_v his_o child_n or_o receive_v the_o bread_n and_o wine_n in_o the_o lord_n supper_n in_o the_o congregation_n but_o all_o these_o thing_n must_v be_v perform_v by_o he_o as_o a_o minister_n i_o suppose_v that_o none_o will_v say_v that_o this_o do_v follow_v and_o if_o not_o then_o suppose_v that_o these_o who_o impose_v hand_n be_v elder_n how_o do_v it_o follow_v that_o when_o they_o impose_v hand_n they_o do_v impose_v as_o elder_n else_o the_o church_n of_o israel_n be_v a_o constitute_v church_n before_o this_o time_n want_v officer_n which_o be_v against_o all_o truth_n answ_n else_o else_o what_o let_v the_o antecedent_n or_o ground_n of_o this_o inference_n be_v take_v from_o the_o word_n precede_v or_o from_o any_o of_o they_o and_o whence_o else_o to_o take_v it_o i_o can_v tell_v and_o no_o necessity_n of_o consequence_n i_o think_v will_v appear_v the_o word_n precede_v be_v no_o more_o but_o these_o these_o who_o lay_v on_o hand_n do_v it_o as_o a_o work_n peculiar_a to_o the_o elder_n because_o the_o elder_n be_v a_o part_n of_o the_o first_o bear_v who_o by_o office_n be_v elder_n and_o in_o who_o steed_n the_o levite_n be_v assume_v and_o then_o come_v in_o this_o inference_n else_o the_o church_n of_o israel_n want_v officer_n now_o how_o this_o must_v needs_o follow_v upon_o any_o or_o all_o of_o those_o precede_a i_o see_v not_o not_o that_o i_o deny_v the_o truth_n of_o all_o those_o precede_a word_n for_o of_o some_o of_o they_o i_o think_v otherwise_o but_o suppose_v that_o be_v all_o true_a which_o be_v more_o than_o do_v yet_o appear_v yet_o here_o be_v that_o which_o i_o be_o doubtful_a in_o whether_o this_o inference_n must_v needs_o follow_v upon_o the_o same_o for_o aught_o i_o see_v the_o church_n of_o israel_n may_v have_v officer_n and_o yet_o the_o particular_n here_o mention_v not_o be_v all_o true_a but_o some_o of_o they_o false_a notwithstanding_o at_o least_o wise_a if_o they_o be_v true_a yet_o the_o reason_n here_o use_v will_v not_o infer_v so_o much_o for_o to_o consider_v a_o little_a of_o the_o particular_n the_o church_n of_o israel_n have_v officer_n ergo_fw-la the_o elder_n be_v a_o part_n of_o the_o first_o bear_v which_o be_v one_o of_o the_o particular_n the_o church_n of_o israel_n have_v officer_n ergo_fw-la the_o first_o bear_v be_v elder_n by_o office_n which_o be_v another_o the_o church_n of_o israel_n have_v officer_n ergo_fw-la the_o levite_n be_v assume_v instead_o of_o the_o first_o bear_v which_o be_v another_o of_o they_o be_v there_o any_o necessity_n of_o consequence_n in_o any_o of_o these_o for_o my_o part_n i_o see_v it_o not_o but_o suppose_v they_o be_v in_o themselves_o true_a yet_o the_o medium_n here_o use_v do_v not_o prove_v they_o so_o to_o be_v and_o for_o that_o which_o be_v the_o first_o and_o as_o i_o conceive_v the_o chief_n to_o wit_n that_o these_o who_o impose_v hand_n do_v it_o as_o a_o work_n peculiar_a to_o elder_n must_v this_o need_v be_v grant_v if_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o the_o church_n of_o israel_n be_v not_o without_o officer_n i_o see_v no_o necessity_n of_o grant_v this_o neither_o but_o the_o contrary_a to_o i_o seem_v possible_a enough_o that_o thou_o may_v be_v officer_n afore_o this_o time_n in_o that_o church_n and_o yet_o what_o be_v now_o do_v by_o they_o who_o impose_v hand_n not_o be_v do_v by_o they_o as_o elder_n by_o office_n but_o as_o prime_n and_o principal_a member_n of_o the_o congregation_n for_o the_o clear_n whereof_o a_o little_a further_o we_o may_v observe_v that_o they_o who_o impose_v hand_n on_o the_o levite_n be_v not_o here_o call_v elder_n nor_o ruler_n nor_o officer_n nor_o first_o bear_v nor_o any_o such_o like_a but_o the_o term_n whereby_o they_o be_v express_v be_v this_o the_o child_n of_o israel_n the_o child_n of_o israel_n say_v the_o lord_n shall_v put_v their_o hand_n upon_o the_o levite_n numb_a 8._o 10._o now_o this_o term_n be_v use_v in_o the_o 9_o verse_n immediate_o precede_v and_o in_o the_o 11._o vers_fw-la immediate_o follow_v yet_o in_o neither_o of_o both_o can_v it_o be_v mean_v of_o elder_n and_o officer_n alone_o but_o in_o both_o verse_n be_v undoubted_o mean_v of_o all_o the_o body_n of_o the_o congregation_n and_o therefore_o if_o the_o context_n and_o circumstance_n of_o the_o place_n be_v regard_v these_o child_n of_o israel_n who_o impose_v hand_n on_o the_o levite_n v_o 10._o can_v in_o that_o act_n be_v consider_v under_o the_o notâ—on_n of_o officer_n sure_o it_o be_v when_o the_o verse_n before_o tell_v we_o that_o the_o whole_a assembly_n of_o the_o child_n of_o israel_n must_v be_v gather_v together_o and_o the_o verse_n follow_v tell_v we_o that_o aaron_n must_v offer_v the_o levite_n for_o a_o offering_n of_o the_o child_n of_o israel_n in_o neither_o of_o these_o can_v the_o child_n of_o israel_n be_v understand_v of_o the_o officer_n alone_o but_o the_o whole_a congregation_n be_v mean_v hereby_o in_o both_o verse_n reason_n therefore_o require_v that_o this_o ten_o verse_n stand_v in_o the_o midst_n between_o the_o other_o two_o the_o word_n child_n of_o israel_n be_v use_v therein_o shall_v be_v take_v in_o the_o same_o sense_n in_o this_o verse_n in_o which_o it_o be_v take_v in_o the_o verse_n before_o and_o in_o the_o verse_n that_o come_v after_o nay_o and_o further_o he_o that_o shall_v
peruse_v this_o chapter_n numb_a 8._o may_v easy_o find_v that_o this_o word_n the_o child_n of_o israel_n be_v use_v therein_o no_o less_o than_o fifteen_o or_o sixteen_o several_a time_n and_o sometime_o four_o or_o five_o time_n in_o one_o verse_n and_o yet_o of_o all_o these_o i_o think_v here_o be_v not_o so_o much_o as_o one_o where_o it_o can_v be_v understand_v of_o the_o elder_n and_o officer_n as_o such_o but_o be_v use_v to_o signify_v all_o the_o congregation_n and_o therefore_o to_o give_v such_o a_o singular_a interpretation_n of_o this_o word_n in_o v_o 10._o so_o far_o different_a from_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o same_o word_n in_o all_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o verse_n both_o before_o and_o after_o and_o those_o be_v not_o only_o one_o or_o two_o but_o so_o very_a many_o this_o kind_n of_o practice_n and_o interpretation_n have_v need_v to_o be_v build_v upon_o very_o plain_a and_o pregnant_a very_o clear_a and_o cogent_a reason_n and_o demonstration_n or_o else_o our_o brethren_n may_v excuse_v we_o if_o we_o be_v not_o over_o hasty_a and_o forward_a to_o receive_v it_o again_o the_o nine_o and_o eleven_o verse_n tell_v we_o plain_o that_o these_o levite_n be_v to_o be_v offer_v to_o the_o lord_n for_o a_o offering_n not_o of_o the_o elder_n alone_o but_o of_o the_o child_n of_o israel_n even_o of_o all_o the_o assembly_n of_o the_o child_n of_o israel_n and_o other_o scripture_n tell_v we_o as_o plain_o that_o all_o offering_n be_v to_o be_v present_v with_o the_o imposition_n of_o his_o hand_n who_o the_o offering_n be_v levit._n 1._o 3_o 4_o and_o 4._o 24_o 29_o 33._o whereby_o it_o seem_v evident_a that_o these_o child_n of_o israel_n who_o impose_v hand_n on_o these_o levite_n at_o this_o time_n when_o they_o be_v offer_v for_o a_o offering_n be_v the_o whole_a congregation_n or_o some_o in_o your_o name_n and_o stead_n since_o these_o levite_n be_v a_o offering_n of_o the_o whole_a congregation_n we_o grant_v the_o magistrate_n lay_v not_o on_o hand_n but_o they_o who_o lay_v on_o hand_n do_v it_o as_o ecclesiastical_a elder_n reconcile_v this_o with_o that_o pag._n 188_o l._n 1._o where_o it_o be_v say_v the_o prince_n and_o head_n of_o tribe_n lay_v hand_n on_o they_o now_o what_o be_v these_o prince_n and_o head_n of_o tribe_n but_o magistrate_n and_o if_o they_o be_v prince_n and_o magistrate_n how_o can_v they_o be_v consider_v in_o this_o act_n as_o ecclesiastical_a elder_n the_o reason_n against_o this_o conclude_v not_o the_o first_o reason_n conclude_v not_o ans_fw-fr here_o again_o our_o meaning_n be_v present_v amiss_o to_o the_o reader_n for_o those_o three_o reason_n of_o we_o be_v give_v by_o we_o to_o prove_v another_o point_n and_o not_o this_o to_o which_o mr._n rutherford_n apply_v therein_o as_o be_v plain_o to_o be_v see_v in_o answer_n pag._n 46_o 47._o where_o the_o reader_n may_v perceive_v that_o those_o reason_n be_v bring_v to_o show_v that_o when_o the_o child_n of_o israel_n impose_v hand_n if_o these_o child_n of_o israel_n be_v not_o all_o the_o congregation_n yet_o what_o they_o perform_v herein_o be_v for_o the_o congregation_n and_o not_o for_o themselves_o only_o and_o if_o those_o reason_n prove_v this_o as_o i_o hope_v they_o do_v it_o be_v no_o great_a disparagement_n to_o they_o not_o we_o if_o they_o prove_v not_o another_o point_n for_o which_o they_o be_v never_o intend_v but_o let_v we_o hear_v the_o answer_n the_o first_o reason_n conclude_v not_o because_o those_o who_o lay_v on_o hand_n be_v the_o first_o bear_v who_o by_o office_n be_v churchman_n answ_n how_o shall_v we_o be_v sure_a that_o those_o who_o lay_v on_o hand_n be_v the_o first_o bear_v though_o i_o deny_v it_o not_o yet_o a_o bare_a affirmation_n prove_v not_o again_o suppose_v what_o here_o be_v affirm_v be_v also_o sufficient_o confirm_v how_o be_v the_o point_n in_o question_n prove_v hereby_o for_o say_v they_o be_v the_o first_o bear_v they_o may_v notwithstanding_o do_v what_o they_o do_v for_o all_o the_o people_n and_o not_o for_o themselves_o above_o the_o other_o two_o reason_n prove_v nothing_o answ_n let_v they_o be_v apply_v to_o the_o thing_n whereto_o they_o be_v intend_v and_o apply_v by_o we_o and_o then_o let_v the_o reader_n judge_n the_o position_n be_v that_o those_o who_o impose_v hand_n on_o the_o levite_n do_v it_o for_o the_o congregation_n or_o in_o their_o stead_n the_o first_o of_o the_o two_o reason_n be_v that_o the_o levite_n be_v the_o congregation_n offering_n and_o all_o offering_n be_v to_o be_v present_v with_o the_o imposition_n of_o his_o hand_n who_o the_o offering_n be_v the_o other_o be_v this_o that_o it_o be_v a_o usual_a thing_n when_o the_o congregation_n be_v to_o present_v a_o offering_n that_o the_o elder_n shall_v impose_v hand_n on_o the_o congregation_n offer_v in_o the_o congregation_n stead_n levit._n 4._o vers_fw-la 14_o 15._o now_o let_v the_o prophet_n judge_n whether_o these_o reason_n prove_v what_o they_o be_v bring_v to_o prove_v to_o wit_n that_o they_o who_o impose_v hand_n on_o the_o levite_n do_v it_o for_o or_o in_o stead_n of_o the_o congregation_n or_o whether_o it_o be_v as_o our_o reverend_a brother_n affirm_v that_o these_o two_o reason_n prove_v nothing_o yet_o let_v we_o hear_v why_o they_o prove_v nothing_o because_o these_o who_o lay_v on_o hand_n do_v lay_v on_o hand_n as_o represent_v the_o whole_a congregation_n alas_o it_o do_v no_o way_n conclude_v that_o they_o lay_v not_o on_o hand_n as_o it_o be_v a_o work_n peculiar_a to_o they_o 〈◊〉_d elder_n ans_fw-fr if_o it_o do_v not_o yet_o if_o our_o reason_n do_v conclude_v that_o they_o do_v it_o instead_o of_o the_o congregation_n we_o have_v our_o intent_n but_o to_o follow_v mr._n rutherford_n a_o little_a in_o digress_v from_o the_o point_n why_o do_v not_o our_o reason_n conclude_v this_o other_o the_o highpriest_n offer_v sacrifice_n first_o for_o his_o own_o sin_n and_o then_o for_o the_o people_n heb._n 7._o v_o 27._o and_o so_o do_v represent_v the_o people_n but_o i_o hope_v it_o follow_v not_o that_o therefore_o the_o priest_n do_v not_o sacrifice_v as_o a_o priest_n and_o by_o virtue_n of_o a_o peculiar_a office_n but_o only_o as_o a_o principal_a member_n of_o the_o congregation_n answ_n mr._n rutherford_n himself_o give_v we_o a_o distinction_n which_o may_v be_v sufficient_a for_o answer_v to_o this_o passage_n a_o representer_n say_v he_o stand_v for_o another_o either_o objective_o or_o subjective_o the_o former_a of_o these_o be_v he_o that_o do_v a_o business_n for_o another_o or_o in_o rem_fw-la ejus_fw-la for_o his_o behalf_n and_o good_a as_o the_o eye_n see_v and_o the_o ear_n hear_v for_o the_o whole_a body_n and_o thus_o objective_o the_o presbytery_n do_v represent_v the_o people_n that_o be_v for_o your_o good_a and_o salvation_n of_o the_o people_n the_o other_o represent_v another_o subjective_o be_v when_o the_o representer_n have_v its_o power_n from_o that_o which_o it_o represent_v as_o he_o who_o carry_v the_o room_n and_o person_n of_o a_o king_n as_o a_o ambassador_n but_o thus_o say_v he_o the_o presbytery_n or_o eldership_n do_v not_o represent_v the_o people_n due_a right_n of_o presbyt_fw-la p._n 316_o 317._o now_o as_o the_o presbytery_n represent_v the_o people_n so_o may_v it_o be_v say_v of_o the_o priest_n viz._n that_o he_o represent_v the_o people_n only_o objective_o for_o their_o good_a but_o not_o subjective_o in_o their_o room_n and_o stead_n and_o therefore_o the_o case_n be_v not_o alike_o for_o we_o think_v that_o what_o be_v do_v by_o those_o who_o impose_v hand_n numb_a 8._o be_v not_o only_o do_v for_o the_o good_a of_o the_o child_n of_o israel_n but_o also_o in_o their_o room_n and_o stead_n which_o he_o will_v not_o say_v of_o the_o priest_n sacrifice_v for_o the_o people_n have_v already_o say_v the_o contrary_a of_o the_o presbytery_n pag._n 493._o you_o will_v say_v in_o a_o church_n in_o a_o island_n one_o may_v be_v a_o pastor_n without_o any_o ordination_n if_o the_o people_n elect_v he_o and_o there_o be_v no_o elder_n to_o ordain_v i_o answer_v it_o be_v true_a answ_n if_o this_o be_v true_a then_o what_o becomnes_n of_o that_o which_o be_v say_v in_o the_o precedent_a page_n that_o though_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v not_o so_o essential_a as_o that_o a_o minister_n can_v be_v no_o minister_n without_o it_o yet_o for_o ordination_n it_o be_v otherwise_o this_o be_v the_o authoritative_a call_n of_o a_o minister_n and_o the_o other_o but_o a_o rite_n annex_v to_o the_o call_n in_o which_o place_n he_o count_v ordination_n so_o essential_a as_o that_o a_o minister_n can_v be_v no_o minister_n without_o it_o and_o yet_o in_o the_o very_a next_o page_n confess_v
that_o time_n what_o if_o they_o meet_v for_o the_o admission_n of_o member_n also_o or_o for_o censure_v delinquent_n can_v mr._n rutherford_n prove_v that_o either_o of_o we_o i_o mean_v either_o mr._n tompson_n or_o myself_o or_o indeed_o any_o man_n else_o of_o that_o judgement_n which_o he_o oppose_v have_v deny_v a_o assembly_n meet_v for_o such_o end_n as_o these_o to_o be_v a_o congregation_n i_o suppose_v he_o can_v and_o therefore_o it_o be_v not_o well_o do_v to_o impute_v unto_o we_o such_o a_o sense_n of_o the_o word_n congregation_n as_o we_o never_o speak_v nor_o think_v of_o and_o then_o to_o say_v it_o be_v false_a that_o a_o company_n gather_v into_o one_o place_n be_v a_o congregation_n as_o that_o word_n be_v take_v by_o we_o i_o appeal_v to_o the_o judgement_n of_o our_o reverend_a brethren_n if_o the_o church_n matth._n 18._o assemble_v to_o to_o bind_v and_o loose_v if_o the_o church_n assemble_v 1_o corin._n 5._o to_o deliver_v to_o satan_n and_o sundry_a other_o be_v there_o name_v to_o the_o like_a purpose_n be_v a_o congregationall_a church_n assemble_v for_o word_n and_o sacrament_n answ_n if_o the_o word_n and_o sacrament_n be_v not_o mention_v in_o the_o place_n allege_v but_o other_o action_n and_o duty_n must_v it_o need_v follow_v that_o the_o church_n speak_v of_o in_o these_o place_n do_v assemble_v for_o word_n and_o sacrament_n may_v not_o one_o and_o the_o same_o church_n assemble_v for_o diverse_a end_n and_o action_n yea_o possible_o for_o diverse_a upon_o one_o day_n at_o the_o least_o wise_a it_o can_v be_v deny_v but_o at_o several_a time_n of_o assemble_v a_o church_n may_v attend_v to_o diverse_a duty_n and_o action_n and_o yet_o still_o be_v one_o and_o the_o same_o congregation_n or_o church_n at_o one_o time_n which_o they_o be_v at_o another_o or_o otherwise_o we_o must_v say_v which_o be_v a_o very_a unwise_a saying_n that_o a_o church_n meet_v for_o diverse_a action_n to_o be_v perform_v upon_o one_o day_n as_o the_o word_n prayer_n psalm_n sacrament_n etc._n etc._n be_v not_o the_o same_o church_n be_v one_o of_o these_o action_n that_o it_o be_v in_o another_o but_o be_v one_o church_n when_o they_o be_v at_o prayer_n another_o when_o they_o be_v sing_v psalm_n another_o when_o they_o be_v in_o exercise_n of_o the_o word_n or_o sacrament_n etc._n etc._n or_o if_o they_o meet_v one_o day_n for_o word_n and_o sacrament_n and_o another_o day_n for_o word_n and_o prayer_n without_o sacrament_n that_o nâ—w_o they_o be_v diverse_a church_n and_o not_o the_o same_o upon_o one_o of_o these_o day_n that_o they_o be_v upon_o another_o the_o nature_n and_o kind_n of_o their_o church_n be_v alter_v according_a to_o the_o several_a duty_n wherein_o they_o be_v exercise_v this_o argue_v i_o suppose_v mr._n rutherford_n will_v not_o own_v for_o good_a and_o yet_o for_o aught_o i_o see_v it_o be_v no_o worse_o but_o the_o very_a same_o with_o that_o which_o himself_o do_v here_o use_v who_o because_o the_o church_n mention_v matth._n 18._o 1_o corinth_n 5._o and_o other_o place_n by_o he_o name_v be_v say_v to_o meet_v for_o discipline_n or_o other_o duty_n will_v thereupon_o have_v it_o think_v that_o the_o church_n mention_v in_o those_o place_n be_v not_o a_o church_n that_o do_v ever_o meet_v for_o word_n and_o sacrament_n but_o be_v some_o other_o church_n of_o another_o kind_n which_o argue_v may_v be_v good_a if_o these_o which_o i_o have_v here_o above_o express_v be_v good_a but_o otherwise_o i_o conceive_v it_o can_v stand_v chap._n xxiv_o whether_o those_o child_n of_o israel_n numb_a 8._o 10._o who_o lay_v hand_n on_o the_o levite_n be_v elder_n by_o office_n and_o as_o so_o consider_v do_v lay_v on_o their_o hand_n and_o whether_o this_o scripture_n do_v not_o prove_v that_o where_o there_o be_v no_o elder_n to_o be_v have_v there_o some_o principal_a member_n though_o not_o elder_n by_o office_n may_v impose_v hand_n on_o church_n officer_n the_o child_n of_o israel_n which_o be_v not_o the_o church_n officer_n lay_v hand_n on_o the_o levite_n numb_a 8._o 10._o therefore_o when_o a_o church_n have_v no_o elder_n the_o people_n may_v confer_v ordination_n and_o it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v tie_v to_o the_o presbyter_n only_o and_o for_o this_o be_v allege_v the_o answer_n pag._n 46._o and_o then_o he_o add_v that_o other_o of_o our_o brethren_n say_v ordination_n be_v but_o accidental_a to_o a_o minister_n call_v and_o may_v be_v want_v if_o the_o people_n shall_v choose_v in_o defect_n of_o elder_n pag._n 491._o answ_n this_o latter_a clause_n shall_v not_o have_v be_v add_v as_o deserve_v a_o confutation_n except_o our_o brother_n will_v confute_v himself_o for_o as_o we_o hear_v afore_o himself_o do_v plain_o affirm_v pag._n 186_o 187._o that_o both_o be_v true_a pastor_n those_o who_o have_v no_o call_n but_o the_o people_n election_n and_o those_o who_o have_v ordination_n by_o pastor_n and_o that_o election_n by_o the_o people_n only_o may_v stand_v for_o ordination_n where_o there_o be_v no_o pastor_n at_o all_o which_o if_o it_o be_v so_o why_o shall_v the_o same_o thing_n in_o effect_n when_o it_o be_v hold_v by_o other_o be_v here_o insert_v in_o a_o objection_n as_o worthy_a to_o be_v speak_v against_o when_o himself_o do_v cast_v the_o very_a same_o it_o be_v marvel_n that_o our_o reverend_a brother_n shall_v thus_o go_v on_o in_o represent_v our_o word_n and_o mind_n amiss_o for_o as_o here_o he_o set_v down_o the_o objection_n under_o our_o name_n some_o of_o our_o word_n be_v change_v and_o alter_v other_o be_v substitute_v in_o their_o place_n some_o be_v whole_o suppress_v as_o if_o there_o have_v be_v none_o such_o and_o other_o be_v add_v as_o 〈◊〉_d which_o never_o come_v from_o we_o of_o the_o first_o sort_n be_v those_o of_o the_o people_n confer_v ordination_n whereas_o our_o word_n be_v not_o so_o but_o that_o the_o people_n may_v impose_v or_o lay_v on_o hand_n now_o between_o these_o two_o himself_o pag._n 492._o do_v make_v a_o great_a difference_n even_o as_o much_o as_o between_o the_o authoritative_a call_n of_o a_o minister_n and_o a_o rite_n annex_v to_o that_o call_n and_o further_o say_v that_o though_o he_o think_v imposition_n of_o handâ—_n not_o so_o essential_a perhaps_o at_o that_o a_o minister_n can_v be_v no_o minister_n without_o it_o yet_o of_o ordination_n he_o think_v otherwise_o and_o if_o he_o make_v so_o great_a a_o difference_n between_o imposition_n of_o handâ—_n and_o ordination_n why_o shall_v our_o word_n be_v forsake_v which_o import_n the_o lesser_a matter_n in_o his_o judgement_n and_o those_o other_o which_o he_o account_v do_v import_n much_o more_o be_v substitute_v in_o the_o room_n be_v this_o to_o burden_v our_o opinion_n or_o apprehension_n with_o a_o great_a odium_fw-la then_o our_o word_n in_o his_o own_o judgement_n will_v bear_v or_o be_v it_o to_o make_v his_o confutation_n of_o we_o more_o easy_a than_o it_o will_v have_v be_v if_o our_o own_o word_n have_v be_v retain_v and_o keep_v what_o ever_o be_v the_o cause_n hereof_o we_o can_v but_o think_v it_o have_v be_v better_a if_o it_o have_v be_v otherwise_o for_o omit_v and_o suppress_v some_o word_n of_o we_o which_o be_v the_o second_o particular_a i_o allege_v those_o of_o the_o time_n and_o place_n where_o elder_n can_v convenient_o be_v borrow_v from_o any_o other_o church_n the_o whole_a passage_n be_v this_o viz._n by_o which_o scripture_n to_o wit_n num._n 8._o 10._o thus_o much_o be_v manifest_a that_o when_o a_o châ—rch_n have_v no_o elder_n but_o the_o first_o elder_n themselves_o be_v to_o be_v ordain_v and_o this_o at_o such_o time_n and_o in_o such_o place_n where_o elder_n can_v convenient_o be_v borrow_v from_o any_o other_o church_n in_o such_o case_n imposition_n of_o hand_n may_v lawful_o be_v perform_v by_o some_o principal_a man_n of_o the_o congregation_n although_o they_o be_v not_o elder_n by_o office_n in_o which_o place_n these_o word_n at_o such_o time_n â—nd_v in_o such_o place_n etc._n etc._n though_o they_o contain_v a_o great_a part_n of_o the_o case_n wherein_o we_o think_v imposition_n of_o hand_n may_v be_v perform_v by_o non-elders_a yet_o they_o be_v whole_o conceal_v by_o mr._n rutherford_n as_o if_o there_o have_v be_v none_o such_o for_o what_o purpose_n himself_o best_o know_v but_o this_o be_v apparent_a that_o by_o his_o concealment_n or_o omission_n the_o way_n be_v make_v more_o easy_a and_o the_o ground_n more_o rational_a for_o that_o passage_n of_o he_o in_o the_o follow_a page_n where_o he_o say_v what_o if_o there_o be_v no_o elder_n in_o a_o single_a congregation_n it_o will_v not_o follow_v therefore_o the_o people_n be_v to_o lay_v on_o hand_n except_o say_v he_o there_o be_v
relation_n of_o luke_n true_a ergo_fw-la election_n be_v prior_n by_o order_n of_o nature_n it_o follow_v not_o answ_n the_o place_n can_v be_v so_o satisfy_v for_o the_o text_n be_v very_o plain_a that_o these_o seven_o be_v elect_v by_o the_o multitude_n afore_o the_o apostle_n lay_v their_o hand_n on_o they_o yea_o and_o not_o only_o afore_o in_o respect_n of_o priority_n of_o nature_n but_o also_o in_o respect_n of_o time_n for_o otherwise_o how_o can_v the_o apostle_n say_v as_o they_o do_v unto_o the_o multitude_n brethren_n look_v out_o seven_o man_n among_o you_o who_o we_o may_v appoint_v over_o this_o business_n can_v any_o man_n imagine_v they_o will_v thus_o have_v speak_v if_o themselves_o have_v already_o find_v out_o the_o man_n and_o likewise_o have_v impose_v hand_n upon_o they_o for_o my_o part_n i_o see_v no_o reason_n for_o such_o a_o apprehension_n but_o think_v it_o be_v undeniable_o plain_a in_o the_o text_n that_o the_o election_n of_o these_o seven_o by_o the_o people_n be_v prior_n to_o their_o ordination_n by_o imposition_n of_o the_o apostle_n hand_n not_o only_o in_o the_o relation_n of_o luke_n as_o mr._n rutherford_n will_v have_v it_o but_o also_o in_o nature_n and_o time_n and_o that_o the_o contrary_n can_v be_v say_v without_o violence_n to_o the_o text_n and_o injury_n and_o wrong_n unto_o the_o apostle_n who_o by_o mr._n rutherford_n exposition_n be_v make_v to_o have_v bid_v the_o multitude_n to_o look_v out_o for_o the_o man_n among_o they_o of_o honest_a report_n etc._n etc._n with_o a_o profession_n that_o when_o the_o multitude_n have_v so_o do_v they_o will_v then_o appoint_v the_o man_n to_o the_o business_n when_o as_o by_o this_o exposition_n they_o have_v already_o appoint_v they_o thereunto_o and_o have_v impose_v their_o hand_n on_o they_o which_o kind_n of_o deal_v have_v be_v such_o that_o i_o think_v that_o apostle_n be_v far_o from_o it_o it_o can_v be_v that_o election_n of_o the_o people_n be_v the_o whole_a call_n of_o a_o man_n to_o the_o ministry_n and_o ordination_n only_o a_o supplement_n &_o a_o consummatory_n rite_n or_o a_o benedictory_n sign_n which_o may_v be_v spare_v answ_n take_v ordination_n as_o we_o do_v and_o why_o can_v this_o be_v himself_o tell_v we_o p._n 492._o that_o he_o think_v not_o imposition_n of_o hand_n so_o essential_a but_o that_o a_o minister_n may_v be_v a_o minister_n without_o it_o and_o that_o to_o he_o it_o be_v but_o a_o rite_n annex_v to_o the_o call_n which_o be_v just_a the_o same_o that_o we_o hold_v and_o yet_o when_o it_o come_v from_o we_o it_o can_v be_v accept_v again_o he_o tell_v we_o pag._n 186_o 187._o that_o there_o be_v true_a and_o lawful_a pastor_n who_o have_v no_o call_n but_o people_n election_n which_o if_o it_o be_v so_o do_v it_o not_o then_o follow_v that_o the_o election_n of_o the_o people_n with_o the_o man_n acceptance_n thereof_o be_v his_o whole_a call_n for_o if_o â—â—ey_n be_v true_a and_o lawful_a pastor_n who_o have_v no_o more_o but_o this_o election_n it_o seem_v it_o must_v needs_o be_v that_o this_o be_v the_o whole_a and_o yet_o here_o this_o be_v deny_v but_o let_v we_o hear_v the_o reason_n of_o this_o denial_n 1._o because_o by_o the_o imposition_n of_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o presbytery_n timothy_n be_v make_v a_o minister_n 1_o timothy_n 4._o 14._o answ_n the_o text_n be_v not_o by_o the_o imposition_n of_o their_o hand_n but_o with_o it_o not_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d but_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d as_o be_v note_v afore_o out_o of_o didoclavius_n altar_n damascen_n p._n 161._o who_o also_o show_v in_o the_o same_o place_n at_o large_a that_o this_o imposition_n of_o hand_n upon_o timothy_n be_v only_o for_o a_o testimonall_a of_o the_o approbation_n of_o his_o call_n and_o for_o a_o ceremony_n use_v in_o commend_v he_o to_o god_n in_o their_o prayer_n and_o in_o asmuch_o as_o the_o office_n of_o timothy_n be_v the_o office_n of_o a_o evangelist_n how_o can_v a_o ordinary_a presbytery_n give_v he_o either_o the_o gift_n or_o the_o power_n belong_v thereto_o when_o mr._n rutherford_n have_v satisfy_v mr._n calderwood_n in_o these_o thing_n a_o man_n of_o his_o own_o nation_n for_o i_o suppose_v mr._n calderwood_n to_o be_v the_o author_n of_o that_o treatise_n of_o altar_n damascen_n then_o if_o we_o require_v more_o may_v be_v say_v of_o this_o place_n in_o the_o mean_a time_n i_o proceed_v to_o the_o next_o by_o this_o imposition_n of_o hand_n paul_n and_o sylas_n be_v separate_v to_o preach_v to_o the_o gentile_n act_n 13._o 1_o 2_o 3._o answ_n paul_n and_o sylas_n be_v not_o once_o mention_v in_o that_o place_n but_o paul_n and_o barnabas_n but_o not_o to_o insist_v upon_o this_o mistake_n let_v m._n calderwood_n answer_v for_o we_o concern_v this_o scripture_n litigent_fw-la say_v he_o inter_fw-la se_fw-la pontifieii_fw-la utrum_fw-la impositio_fw-la ista_fw-la manuum_fw-la fuerit_fw-la ordinativa_fw-la etc._n etc._n that_o be_v let_v the_o papist_n contend_v among_o themselves_o whether_o this_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v for_o ordination_n or_o only_o for_o prayer_n we_o hold_v that_o it_o be_v for_o prayer_n and_o comendatory_a for_o they_o commend_v they_o to_o the_o grace_n of_o god_n as_o it_o be_v say_v act._n 14._o 26._o yet_o as_o they_o can_v not_o ordâ—â—n_v they_o and_o call_v they_o to_o this_o ministry_n they_o be_v apostle_n who_o be_v call_v extraordinary_o so_o neither_o can_v they_o appoint_v they_o to_o any_o certain_a employment_n or_o place_n for_o the_o holy_a ghost_n do_v direct_v the_o apostle_n in_o their_o trouble_n and_o here_o it_o be_v express_o say_v that_o they_o be_v send_v forth_o by_o the_o holy_a ghost_n altar_n damascen_n pag._n 160._o and_o then_o speak_v of_o certain_a word_n of_o spalleto_n who_o say_v this_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v a_o pious_a ceremony_n and_o use_v at_o that_o time_n as_o a_o certain_a part_n of_o a_o efficatious_a prayer_n he_o add_v rectius_fw-la diceret_fw-la fuisse_fw-la etc._n etc._n he_o may_v more_o right_o say_v it_o be_v a_o rite_n and_o gesture_n of_o one_o that_o pray_v show_v the_o person_n for_o who_o he_o do_v implore_v grace_n rather_o than_o to_o call_v it_o a_o efficacious_a part_n of_o prayer_n where_o we_o plain_o see_v that_o he_o count_v this_o imposition_n of_o hand_n on_o paul_n and_o barnabas_n no_o ordain_v of_o they_o to_o the_o office_n as_o some_o papist_n and_o it_o seem_v mr._n rutherford_n will_v have_v it_o but_o only_o a_o rite_n or_o gesture_n use_v when_o the_o presbytery_n commend_v paul_n and_o barnabas_n to_o god_n by_o prayer_n this_o author_n of_o altar_n damascenam_fw-la also_o add_v cum_fw-la assumendi_fw-la erant_fw-la levitae_fw-la etc._n etc._n that_o be_v when_o the_o levite_n be_v to_o be_v take_v from_o among_o the_o child_n of_o israel_n the_o lord_n command_v that_o they_o shall_v be_v bring_v before_o jehovaâ—_n and_o that_o the_o child_n of_o israel_n shall_v lay_v their_o hand_n upon_o the_o levite_n numb_a 8._o 9_o 10._o although_o the_o lord_n have_v command_v to_o consecrate_v these_o levite_n unto_o the_o ministry_n yet_o he_o command_v the_o israelite_n to_o lay_v their_o hand_n upon_o the_o levite_n as_o if_o they_o have_v of_o their_o own_o accord_n in_o their_o name_n give_v they_o up_o to_o the_o ministry_n as_o junius_n in_o his_o analysis_n do_v fit_o interpret_v it_o thus_o far_o mr._n calderwood_n who_o judgement_n of_o this_o scripture_n numb_a 8._o whether_o it_o be_v not_o the_o same_o with_o we_o which_o be_v former_o express_v let_v mr._n rutherford_n himself_o be_v judge_n mr._n rutherford_n add_v that_o by_o imposition_n of_o hand_n the_o deacon_n be_v ordain_v act._n 6._o and_o that_o this_o be_v enjoin_v with_o the_o right_a manner_n of_o act_v it_o to_o timothy_n 1_o tim._n 5._o 22._o and_o 2._o 2._o 2._o as_o a_o ministerial_a act_n answ_n whereas_o he_o say_v it_o can_v be_v that_o lay_v on_o of_o hand_n shall_v be_v only_o a_o consummatory_n rite_n or_o benedictory_n sign_n and_o bring_v the_o example_n of_o these_o deacon_n acts._n 6._o for_o proof_n i_o desire_v no_o more_o but_o that_o he_o will_v accept_v his_o own_o word_n for_o answer_v now_o in_o pag._n 169._o his_o word_n be_v these_o it_o be_v not_o say_v that_o the_o deacon_n be_v ordain_v with_o fast_v and_o prayer_n as_o hand_n be_v lay_v upon_o paul_n and_o barnabas_n act._n 13._o 3_o 4._o but_o simple_o that_o the_o apostle_n pray_v and_o lay_v their_o hand_n on_o they_o which_o seem_v to_o i_o to_o be_v nothing_o but_o a_o sign_n of_o pray_v over_o these_o deacon_n and_o no_o ceremony_n or_o sacrament_n confer_v on_o they_o the_o holy_a ghost_n now_o if_o it_o be_v nothing_o but_o a_o sign_n of_o pray_v over_o these_o deacon_n than_o
do_v acknowledge_v it_o follow_v unavoidable_o thereupon_o that_o all_o congregationall_a church_n such_o as_o have_v neighbour_n and_o such_o as_o have_v none_o may_v exercise_v such_o entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n since_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n do_v agree_v unto_o they_o all_o unless_o he_o will_v deny_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n to_o a_o congregation_n which_o have_v neighbour_n which_o he_o free_o yield_v to_o a_o congregation_n which_o be_v alone_o he_o must_v grant_v entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n unto_o they_o both_o because_o he_o grant_v it_o to_o the_o one_o upon_o this_o reason_n that_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n do_v agree_v thereunto_o which_o reason_n if_o it_o agree_v to_o both_o how_o can_v iâ—_n be_v avoid_v but_o entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n must_v be_v in_o both_o and_o how_o can_v it_o be_v affirm_v or_o imagine_v that_o a_o congregation_n have_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n afore_o and_o have_v neighbour_n shall_v lose_v this_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n when_o neighbour_n be_v add_v to_o it_o a_o family_n have_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o family_n now_o it_o be_v alone_o do_v not_o lose_v this_o essence_n by_o mean_n of_o other_o family_n add_v nor_o do_v a_o city_n that_o be_v such_o as_o it_o be_v alone_o lose_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o city_n by_o the_o access_n of_o other_o city_n and_o the_o same_o may_v be_v say_v of_o a_o corporation_n a_o province_n a_o kingdom_n or_o any_o other_o society_n whatsoever_o and_o that_o it_o shall_v be_v otherwise_o with_o a_o congregationall_a church_n that_o it_o shall_v lose_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n as_o other_o neighbour_n church_n do_v arise_v do_v seem_v very_o strange_a and_o unreasonable_a and_o let_v the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n be_v still_o retain_v by_o such_o a_o congregation_n as_o i_o conceive_v it_o must_v and_o then_o entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n must_v not_o be_v deny_v to_o such_o a_o congregation_n since_o it_o do_v flow_v connatural_o from_o every_o church_n to_o which_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o church_n do_v agree_v if_o there_o be_v no_o more_o consociate_v with_o that_o church_n that_o be_v by_o accident_n and_o a_o extraordinary_a exigence_n of_o god_n providence_n as_o a_o master_n of_o a_o family_n be_v to_o educate_v his_o child_n in_o the_o fear_n of_o god_n but_o if_o god_n take_v all_o his_o child_n from_o he_o by_o death_n he_o do_v not_o transgress_v the_o ordinary_a rule_n of_o educate_v his_o child_n in_o the_o fear_n of_o god_n as_o he_o have_v none_o answ_n if_o this_o comparison_n do_v suit_n the_o present_a purpose_n and_o case_n in_o hand_n than_o this_o master_n of_o a_o family_n be_v a_o congregation_n and_o these_o his_o child_n be_v the_o member_n of_o other_o congregation_n and_o so_o as_o a_o master_n of_o a_o family_n need_v not_o to_o educate_v his_o child_n in_o god_n fear_n when_o they_o be_v all_o take_v from_o he_o by_o death_n so_o a_o congregation_n need_v not_o to_o govern_v the_o member_n of_o other_o congregation_n as_o there_o be_v no_o other_o congregation_n extant_a but_o itself_o be_v leave_v alone_o in_o a_o island_n in_o which_o kind_n of_o argue_v sundry_a thing_n may_v be_v except_v against_o as_o firâ—â—_n of_o all_o that_o there_o shall_v be_v such_o power_n in_o a_o congregation_n as_o in_o a_o master_n of_o a_o family_n over_o his_o own_o child_n which_o need_v a_o good_a deal_n of_o proof_n afore_o it_o may_v be_v yield_v in_o as_o much_o as_o the_o power_n of_o the_o one_o be_v plain_o and_o plentiful_o teach_v in_o the_o scripture_n as_o eph._n 4._o 6._o col._n 3._o deut._n 6._o 7._o deut._n 21._o and_o many_o other_o place_n but_o i_o desire_v one_o clear_a place_n of_o scripture_n in_o all_o the_o book_n of_o god_n either_o old_a testament_n or_o new_a to_o show_v the_o like_a power_n in_o a_o congregationall_a church_n over_o the_o member_n of_o other_o church_n again_o when_o a_o master_n of_o a_o family_n have_v all_o his_o child_n take_v from_o he_o by_o death_n he_o have_v then_o no_o child_n of_o his_o own_o to_o govern_v but_o want_v a_o congregationall_a church_n &_o be_v leave_v alone_o in_o a_o island_n the_o presbytery_n of_o that_o congregation_n be_v leave_v alone_o but_o have_v still_o the_o member_n of_o that_o congregation_n who_o they_o may_v and_o aught_o to_o guide_v and_o govern_v in_o the_o fear_n of_o god_n which_o be_v another_o particular_a wherein_o the_o comparison_n fail_v but_o though_o the_o similitude_n as_o mr._n rutherford_n have_v lay_v it_o down_o do_v not_o confirm_v his_o purpose_n yet_o i_o conceive_v it_o may_v be_v so_o frame_v and_o apply_v as_o that_o it_o may_v well_o serve_v for_o the_o weekn_n thereof_o thus_o a_o master_n of_o a_o family_n have_v when_o that_o family_n be_v alone_o entire_a power_n to_o govern_v his_o family_n in_o the_o fear_n of_o god_n when_o other_o family_n do_v arise_v that_o become_v neighbour_n near_o adjoin_v he_o be_v not_o by_o this_o mean_v deprive_v of_o the_o power_n which_o he_o have_v before_o but_o still_o retain_v the_o same_o entire_a and_o complete_a as_o former_o it_o be_v even_o so_o the_o presbytery_n of_o a_o congregationall_a church_n have_v when_o that_o congregation_n be_v alone_o entire_a power_n of_o jurisdiction_n over_o its_o own_o member_n be_v not_o when_o neighbour_n congregation_n do_v arise_v deprive_v by_o this_o mean_n of_o the_o power_n which_o it_o have_v before_o but_o still_o retain_v the_o same_o entire_a as_o former_o it_o be_v again_o though_o when_o god_n take_v away_o a_o man_n child_n by_o death_n he_o be_v no_o long_o bind_v to_o educate_v and_o govern_v those_o child_n in_o the_o fear_n of_o god_n yet_o as_o long_o as_o his_o child_n live_v with_o he_o in_o his_o family_n it_o be_v not_o the_o sit_v down_o of_o other_o family_n near_o by_o he_o that_o can_v take_v away_o this_o power_n from_o he_o or_o discharge_v he_o of_o this_o duty_n even_o so_o though_o when_o member_n of_o a_o congregation_n be_v take_v away_o by_o death_n or_o otherwise_o the_o congregation_n or_o its_o presbytery_n do_v no_o long_o stand_v charge_v or_o bind_v with_o the_o oversight_n and_o government_n of_o such_o member_n yet_o as_o long_o as_o they_o live_v in_o the_o congregation_n it_o be_v not_o the_o arise_v of_o other_o congregation_n near_o to_o they_o that_o can_v free_v they_o from_o the_o power_n wherewith_o they_o be_v invest_v nor_o from_o the_o duty_n wherewith_o they_o be_v former_o charge_v towards_o such_o member_n thus_o the_o comparison_n run_v even_o and_o we_o see_v our_o brother_n cause_n be_v not_o a_o little_a disadvantage_v thereby_o but_o as_o he_o have_v lay_v it_o down_o it_o do_v so_o apparent_o fail_v that_o i_o do_v not_o perceive_v how_o it_o can_v afford_v he_o any_o help_n at_o all_o this_o argument_n suppose_v that_o the_o congregation_n have_v no_o power_n of_o excommunication_n at_o all_o either_o complete_a or_o incompleate_a as_o the_o midwife_n have_v no_o power_n to_o baptise_v either_o complete_a or_o incompleate_a answ_n suppose_v a_o congregation_n have_v a_o incompleate_a power_n when_o they_o have_v neighbour_n how_o shall_v it_o appear_v that_o when_o they_o be_v alone_o their_o power_n be_v now_o complete_a or_o how_o will_v it_o be_v avoid_v but_o by_o the_o like_a reason_n one_o elder_a alone_o may_v excommunicate_v in_o case_n there_o be_v no_o other_o elder_n to_o join_v with_o he_o for_o plain_a it_o be_v that_o one_o elder_n when_o their_o be_v a_o full_a presbytery_n or_o classis_fw-la have_v a_o incompleate_a power_n though_o not_o a_o complete_a and_o yet_o i_o hope_v this_o incomplete_a power_n in_o one_o elder_n when_o there_o be_v other_o elder_n join_v with_o he_o will_v not_o warrant_v he_o to_o exercise_v a_o power_n complete_a when_o he_o be_v alone_o because_o such_o a_o power_n must_v be_v exercise_v by_o a_o church_n with_o one_o elder_a alone_n can_v be_v and_o if_o one_o elder_a have_v a_o incomplete_a power_n when_o he_o be_v join_v with_o other_o may_v not_o exercise_v a_o complete_a power_n when_o he_o be_v alone_o how_o will_v the_o incomplete_a power_n of_o a_o congregation_n when_o they_o have_v neighbour_n suppose_v that_o in_o such_o case_n their_o power_n be_v indeed_o incompleate_a how_o will_v this_o i_o say_v warrant_v that_o congregation_n when_o they_o be_v alone_o to_o exercise_v a_o complete_a power_n for_o aught_o i_o see_v the_o complete_a power_n of_o the_o congregation_n be_v no_o more_o warrant_v upon_o this_o ground_n than_o the_o like_a power_n of_o one_o elder_a upon_o the_o same_o ground_n the_o case_n be_v alike_o in_o both_o neither_o do_v a_o congregation_n transgress_v any_o rule_n of_o christ_n at_o all_o when_o it_o exercise_v entire_a power_n of_o censure_n within_o