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child_n abraham_n faith_n justify_v 3,282 5 9.4401 4 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A08426 A true report of the disputation or rather priuate conference had in the Tower of London, with Ed. Campion Iesuite, the last of August. 1581. Set downe by the reuerend learned men them selues that dealt therein. VVhereunto is ioyned also a true report of the other three dayes conferences had there with the same Iesuite. Which nowe are thought meete to be published in print by authoritie Nowell, Alexander, 1507?-1602.; Day, William, 1529-1596. aut; Fielde, John, d. 1588.; Fulke, William, 1538-1589. aut; Goad, Roger, 1538-1610. aut; Campion, Edmund, Saint, 1540-1581. aut; Walker, John, d. 1588. aut; Charke, William, d. 1617. aut 1583 (1583) STC 18744; ESTC S113389 169,017 230

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the_o apostle_n doctrine_n and_o argument_n galat._n 3_o vers_fw-la 11_o 12._o who_o there_o prove_v that_o faith_n and_o work_n be_v opposite_a cause_n of_o salvation_n camp_n the_o second_o covenant_n be_v that_o we_o shall_v be_v save_v by_o do_v those_o thing_n that_o christ_n command_v and_o the_o first_o covenant_n be_v by_o do_v all_o that_o moses_n command_v and_o this_o be_v the_o very_a interpretation_n and_o meaning_n of_o the_o apostle_n the_o righteous_a shall_v live_v by_o faith_n that_o be_v by_o faith_n of_o christ._n charke_n a_o false_a position_n i_o pray_v you_o be_v obedience_n the_o faith_n of_o christ_n be_v it_o faith_n to_o fulfull_a that_o which_o christ_n command_v or_o not_o rather_o to_o believe_v that_o he_o have_v promise_v and_o perform_v camp_n yea_o that_o it_o be_v charke_n how_o can_v that_o be_v see_v the_o apostle_n gal._n 3._o vers_fw-la 12._o do_v not_o only_o set_v down_o the_o two_o covenant_n in_o sinai_n and_o zion_n with_o their_o several_a 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be_v due_a to_o god_n only_o and_o dulia_n to_o serve_v be_v that_o which_o i_o may_v yield_v to_o any_o saint_n or_o creature_n charke_n yes_o the_o speech_n need_v and_o the_o argument_n follow_v for_o your_o verbal_a distinction_n of_o greek_a word_n to_o deceive_v english_a people_n be_v unlearned_a and_o impious_a to_o say_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d be_v for_o god_n only_o which_o yet_o as_o i_o say_v you_o allow_v to_o the_o bare_a image_n of_o christ_n and_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d for_o image_n can_v all_o know_v and_o keep_v a_o just_a weight_n and_o measure_n in_o their_o devotion_n give_v no_o more_o but_o just_a 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d to_o saint_n to_o be_v short_a the_o error_n and_o unlearnednesse_n of_o your_o distinction_n appear_v that_o not_o understand_v the_o use_n and_o proper_a signification_n of_o the_o word_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d you_o have_v allow_v it_o to_o be_v give_v to_o image_n be_v a_o word_n that_o note_v as_o base_a and_o as_o slavish_a bondage_n as_o any_o word_n in_o the_o greek_a tongue_n so_o by_o your_o distinction_n the_o worshipper_n of_o the_o church_n must_v be_v as_o bondman_n to_o their_o image_n thus_o you_o see_v only_o be_v gather_v fit_o of_o the_o negative_a and_o that_o your_o distinction_n be_v both_o false_a and_o also_o against_o your_o own_o doctrine_n of_o image_n worship_n campion_n i_o say_v it_o be_v gather_v from_o both_o and_o the_o negative_a not_o sufficient_a alone_o but_o because_o of_o the_o matter_n speak_v of_o god_n charke_n why_o then_o i_o perceive_v you_o will_v borrow_v of_o i_o for_o a_o need_n before_o you_o say_v adorabis_fw-la include_v only_o now_o you_o come_v to_o i_o and_o say_v it_o be_v gather_v also_o of_o the_o negative_a this_o be_v all_o i_o can_v desire_v camp_n fayth_n only_a as_o it_o be_v a_o good_a work_n join_v with_o hope_n and_o charity_n do_v justify_v charke_n i_o will_v not_o have_v you_o to_o abuse_v the_o company_n in_o grant_v faith_n only_o and_o yet_o you_o will_v expound_v it_o faith_n not_o alone_o it_o be_v a_o strange_a only_o that_o be_v not_o alone_o furthermore_o faith_n as_o it_o be_v a_o good_a work_n do_v not_o justify_v be_v always_o imperfect_a but_o as_o it_o apprehend_v the_o righteousness_n of_o christ_n which_o be_v perfect_a that_o be_v as_o it_o be_v a_o piece_n of_o obedience_n to_o the_o promise_n of_o god_n it_o do_v not_o justify_v but_o as_o it_o apprehend_v the_o precious_a promise_n campion_n you_o be_v still_o charge_v i_o with_o abuse_v the_o company_n but_o if_o you_o will_v give_v i_o leave_v i_o will_v declare_v how_o faith_n be_v a_o work_n there_o be_v a_o habit_n which_o be_v call_v fides_n and_o the_o act_n of_o this_o habit_n within_o a_o man_n be_v credere_fw-la to_o believe_v a_o act_n interior_a proceed_n from_o this_o habit_n a_o act_n exterior_a proceed_n from_o this_o habit_n be_v to_o profess_v this_o faith_n consonant_a to_o the_o apostle_n with_o the_o heart_n i_o believe_v and_o with_o the_o mouth_n i_o confess_v now_o i_o say_v to_o believe_v be_v first_o a_o good_a work_n and_o to_o profess_v this_o faith_n be_v also_o a_o good_a work_n as_o to_o give_v a_o alm_n to_o fast_o to_o do_v penance_n etc._n etc._n and_o this_o faith_n abraham_n have_v and_o your_o say_n be_v contrary_a to_o saint_n james._n abraham_n pater_fw-la noster_fw-la nun_n ex_fw-la operibus_fw-la iustificatus_fw-la est_fw-la offerens_fw-la filium_fw-la suum_fw-la deo_fw-la abraham_n our_o father_n be_v he_o not_o justify_v by_o work_v offer_v up_o his_o son_n charke_n my_o say_n be_v not_o contrary_a to_o saint_n james_n but_o your_o objection_n be_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d far_o from_o the_o question_n in_o hand_n we_o dispute_v what_o be_v the_o cause_n of_o salvation_n and_o you_o run_v out_o to_o the_o note_n and_o effect_n of_o he_o that_o be_v justify_v campion_n let_v i_o oppose_v be_v it_o not_o reason_n that_o i_o shall_v oppose_v charke_n yes_o when_o you_o be_v thereto_o appoint_v and_o you_o shall_v find_v enough_o to_o answer_v you_o yet_o because_o you_o have_v so_o often_o challenge_v we_o to_o answer_v you_o a_o argument_n though_o i_o come_v not_o with_o any_o commission_n to_o suffer_v you_o to_o prove_v your_o erroneous_a doctrine_n i_o will_v notwithstanding_o suffer_v you_o to_o oppose_v and_o make_v a_o argument_n in_o this_o matter_n first_o give_v the_o company_n to_o understande_v that_o you_o will_v deceive_v they_o with_o a_o opinion_n that_o our_o advantage_n be_v great_a in_o reply_v but_o it_o be_v not_o so_o if_o your_o cause_n be_v good_a and_o your_o skill_n great_a you_o may_v make_v it_o hard_a to_o reply_v then_o to_o answer_v for_o the_o answerer_n may_v with_o a_o word_n deny_v the_o proposition_n and_o so_o soon_o take_v from_o the_o reply_o all_o his_o weapon_n but_o make_v your_o argument_n here_o campion_n pause_v long_o before_o he_o can_v frame_v his_o argument_n whereupon_o master_n charke_n say_v a_o syllogism_n campion_n a_o syllogism_n yet_o stay_v long_o master_n charke_n say_v we_o shall_v have_v it_o anon_o camp_n he_o that_o be_v justify_v for_o believe_v be_v justify_v by_o a_o good_a work_n but_o abraham_n be_v justify_v by_o believe_v ergo_fw-la abraham_n be_v justify_v by_o a_o good_a work_n the_o mayor_n be_v out_o of_o saint_n james_n chapter_n 3_o suppleta_fw-la est_fw-la scriptura_fw-la dicens_fw-la etc._n etc._n charke_n prove_v your_o mayor_n in_o the_o sense_n we_o dispute_v of_o and_o i_o will_v answer_v you_o to_o two_o other_o syllogism_n camp_n it_o be_v easy_o prove_v charke_n how_o can_v you_o prove_v it_o out_o of_o saint_n james_n that_o faith_n be_v a_o good_a work_n when_o saint_n james_n say_v abraham_n be_v iustify_v by_o good_a work_v his_o meaning_n be_v that_o abraham_n be_v declare_v and_o know_v to_o be_v just_a according_a to_o that_o phrase_n wisdom_n be_v justify_v of_o her_o child_n again_o all_o the_o people_n and_o 29._o publican_n justify_v god_n campion_n i_o will_v none_o of_o your_o interpretation_n the_o question_n be_v clear_a with_o i_o charke_n i_o will_v fain_o have_v of_o your_o answer_n so_o they_o be_v to_o the_o purpose_n of_o the_o argument_n campion_n proceed_v and_o prove_v somewhat_o for_o your_o cause_n charke_n i_o have_v prove_v more_o than_o you_o can_v answer_v and_o because_o you_o general_o slander_v we_o that_o our_o doctrine_n concern_v this_o and_o other_o principal_a point_n of_o religion_n be_v against_o the_o doctor_n although_o the_o scripture_n be_v large_a full_a and_o sufficient_a enough_o and_o be_v the_o only_a touchstone_n for_o the_o trial_n of_o sound_n and_o true_a doctrine_n yet_o i_o will_v not_o stick_v a_o little_a to_o follow_v you_o in_o this_o cyprian_a basill_n ambrose_n theodoret_n hierome_n gennadius_n 4._o all_o these_o greek_a and_o latin_a father_n do_v flat_o and_o full_o teach_v that_o we_o be_v save_v by_o faith_n only_o campion_n bring_v i_o one_o of_o they_o and_o i_o will_v answer_v you_o charke_n there_o be_v a_o notable_a place_n out_o of_o basill_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d where_o of_o purpose_n dispute_v of_o humility_n among_o other_o note_n he_o show_v that_o we_o must_v attribute_v all_o to_o the_o grace_n and_o ryghteousnesse_n of_o god_n who_o alone_o be_v our_o glory_n our_o wisdom_n and_o our_o justification_n thereupon_o fall_v into_o this_o question_n he_o say_v a_o man_n must_v acknowledge_v himself_o void_a of_o true_a righteousness_n and_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d that_o be_v a_o man_n must_v know_v that_o he_o be_v justify_v by_o only_a faith_n in_o christ._n i_o english_a it_o to_o your_o hand_n because_o you_o deal_v not_o with_o the_o greek_a campion_n i_o acknowledge_v your_o place_n and_o yet_o your_o doctrine_n be_v utter_o new_a for_o the_o father_n when_o they_o urge_v that_o doctrine_n they_o do_v it_o in_o respect_n they_o have_v to_o deal_v with_o jew_n and_o infidel_n and_o pagan_n and_o further_o by_o faith_n they_o mean_v christian_a religion_n exclude_v paganism_n and_o not_o exclude_v charity_n and_o good_a work_n charke_n our_o doctrine_n new_a and_o yet_o the_o ancient_a doctor_n teach_v it_o i_o ask_v with_o what_o conscience_n or_o judgement_n you_o can_v say_v it_o do_v the_o apostle_n write_v to_o the_o roman_n to_o the_o galathian_o to_o the_o ephesian_n church_n so_o effectual_o call_v and_o reclaim_v from_o gentilism_n that_o he_o term_v they_o saint_n and_o brethren_n and_o affirm_v that_o they_o be_v no_o more_o darkness_n but_o light_n in_o the_o lord_n do_v the_o apostle_n i_o say_v write_v to_o they_o deal_v as_o against_o jew_n and_o pagan_n i_o marvel_n you_o blush_v not_o at_o so_o foul_a a_o shift_n and_o so_o palpable_a a_o error_n but_o will_v you_o
ourselves_o to_o show_v that_o it_o be_v no_o righteousness_n cleave_v in_o we_o but_o in_o christ_n &_o be_v make_v we_o by_o imputation_n even_o as_o our_o sin_n be_v impute_v to_o christ_n consider_v the_o place_n hereafter_o with_o yourself_o fulke_n mark_v here_o his_o absurdity_n first_o he_o hold_v that_o he_o can_v keep_v the_o law_n in_o such_o perfection_n as_o god_n require_v and_o he_o absurdity_n can_v love_v god_n with_o all_o his_o heart_n with_o all_o his_o soul_n and_o with_o all_o his_o strength_n and_o his_o neighbour_n as_o himself_o second_o he_o affirm_v that_o though_o he_o have_v a_o lust_n to_o steal_v yet_o if_o he_o bridle_v that_o lust_n he_o love_v his_o neighbour_n as_o himself_o three_o he_o hold_v that_o we_o be_v justify_v by_o inherent_a righteousness_n which_o he_o think_v to_o colour_v by_o the_o grace_n and_o gift_n of_o god_n but_o nevertheless_o you_o be_v in_o the_o case_n of_o the_o pharisee_n luke_n 18._o which_o trust_v in_o his_o own_o righteousness_n &_o yet_o ascribe_v all_o to_o the_o grace_n of_o god_n say_v i_o thank_v thou_o etc._n etc._n he_o boast_v not_o before_o man_n but_o humble_o give_v thanks_n unto_o god_n acknowledge_v his_o righteousness_n to_o be_v god_n gift_n and_o yet_o christ_n tell_v this_o parable_n against_o he_o and_o such_o as_o he_o be_v which_o trust_v in_o themselves_o that_o they_o be_v righteous_a that_o be_v by_o justice_n inherent_a although_o they_o confess_v they_o have_v it_o by_o the_o grace_n and_o gift_n of_o god_n campion_n but_o this_o be_v of_o pride_n that_o he_o glory_v in_o his_o righteousness_n and_o therefore_o the_o parable_n be_v tell_v against_o himself_o fulke_n i_o grant_v that_o he_o be_v proud_a and_o so_o be_v all_o iusticiaries_n that_o trust_v in_o themselves_o that_o they_o be_v righteous_a howsoever_o they_o will_v cloak_v their_o pride_n by_o ascribe_v it_o to_o the_o gift_n of_o god_n but_o he_o be_v condemn_v for_o trust_v in_o himself_o that_o he_o be_v righteous_a that_o be_v for_o inherent_a righteousness_n which_o nevertheless_o he_o ascribe_v not_o to_o his_o own_o strength_n but_o to_o the_o grace_n of_o god_n say_v i_o thank_v thou_o god_n etc._n etc._n but_o i_o will_v go_v to_o another_o argument_n campion_n i_o pray_v you_o let_v i_o answer_v this_o argument_n first_o for_o it_o shall_v be_v report_v that_o i_o say_v this_o and_o that_o and_o my_o word_n shall_v be_v deprave_a i_o say_v therefore_o there_o be_v two_o way_n of_o justification_n one_o in_o we_o another_o without_o us._n christ_n be_v a_o cause_n of_o justification_n by_o his_o grace_n and_o merit_n without_o we_o and_o so_o we_o be_v justify_v by_o baptism_n and_o we_o be_v justify_v by_o the_o gift_n of_o god_n in_o we_o faith_n hope_n and_o charity_n how_o say_v you_o be_v not_o these_o my_o word_n and_o why_o then_o do_v you_o challenge_v i_o for_o say_v we_o be_v justify_v by_o god_n righteousness_n say_v hope_v and_o charity_n which_o be_v within_o us._n for_o how_o say_v you_o be_v we_o not_o justify_v by_o faith_n and_o be_v not_o faith_n within_o we_o fulke_n i_o challenge_v you_o for_o blasphemous_a absurdity_n in_o say_v you_o can_v love_v god_n with_o all_o your_o heart_n with_o all_o your_o soul_n and_o strength_n and_o albeit_o hope_v and_o charity_n follow_v that_o same_o faith_n by_o which_o we_o be_v justify_v in_o the_o regenerate_a that_o be_v the_o child_n of_o god_n yet_o we_o be_v not_o justify_v by_o they_o no_o nor_o by_o faith_n otherwise_o then_o instrumental_o as_o by_o apprehend_v the_o righteousness_n of_o christ_n which_o be_v without_o we_o and_o be_v no_o otherwise_o we_o then_o by_o imputation_n and_o how_o can_v you_o love_v god_n with_o all_o your_o heart_n etc._n etc._n when_o you_o can_v not_o give_v he_o a_o entire_a love_n according_a to_o his_o law_n campion_n i_o say_v a_o man_n may_v love_v god_n with_o all_o his_o heart_n in_o this_o life_n according_a to_o his_o law_n when_o he_o do_v prefer_v god_n before_o all_o the_o thing_n in_o the_o world_n as_o when_o a_o man_n do_v chief_o prefer_v he_o etc._n etc._n fulke_n but_o can_v you_o love_v god_n only_o campion_n a_o man_n love_v god_n only_o when_o he_o love_v he_o chief_o etc._n etc._n fulke_n chief_o and_o only_o be_v all_o one_o write_v that_o campion_n why_o think_v you_o the_o law_n be_v give_v to_o no_o purpose_n i_o be_o sure_a it_o be_v give_v to_o be_v fulfil_v and_o we_o be_v notbidden_v to_o keep_v it_o if_o it_o be_v impossible_a fulke_n the_o law_n be_v give_v for_o another_o cause_n then_o that_o we_o shall_v be_v justify_v by_o fulfil_v it_o namely_o to_o show_v we_o our_o infirmity_n that_o we_o may_v be_v convict_v of_o sin_n campion_n that_o be_v a_o wise_a cause_n in_o deed_n belike_o a_o father_n command_v his_o child_n not_o that_o they_o shall_v do_v his_o will_n but_o because_o he_o will_v have_v they_o to_o see_v that_o they_o can_v not_o do_v it_o fulke_n as_o though_o almighty_a god_n can_v have_v none_o other_o end_n of_o give_v commandment_n then_o mortal_a man_n use_v to_o have_v but_o this_o be_v not_o to_o the_o question_n i_o will_v go_v forward_o with_o another_o argument_n if_o you_o will_v suffer_v i_o campion_n you_o will_v give_v i_o leave_v to_o declare_v my_o meaning_n fulke_n belike_o you_o have_v a_o ill_a opinion_n of_o the_o auditory_a that_o they_o can_v understand_v nothing_o except_o you_o tell_v it_o they_o twenty_o tune_n over_o if_o you_o will_v not_o suffer_v i_o to_o proceed_v i_o must_v desire_v matter_n lieutenant_n to_o command_v you_o if_o a_o general_a council_n may_v err_v than_o the_o church_n may_v err_v argument_n but_o a_o general_a council_n may_v err_v therefore_o the_o church_n may_v err_v campion_n i_o deny_v the_o minor_n fulke_n a_o general_a council_n may_v be_v correct_v as_o augustine_n say_v therefore_o it_o may_v err_v campion_n it_o may_v be_v declare_v or_o explain_v but_o not_o correct_v by_o a_o contrary_a decree_n fulke_n will_v you_o hear_v the_o place_n it_o be_v tom._n 6._o lib._n 2._o contra_fw-la donatistas_n cap._n 3._o quis_fw-la autem_fw-la nesciat_fw-la sanctam_fw-la scripturam_fw-la canonicam_fw-la tam_fw-la veteris_fw-la quàm_fw-la novi_fw-la testamenti_fw-la certis_fw-la suis_fw-la terminis_fw-la contineri_fw-la eamque_fw-la omnibus_fw-la posterioribus_fw-la episcoporum_fw-la literis_fw-la ita_fw-la praeponi_fw-la ut_fw-la de_fw-la illa_fw-la omnino_fw-la dubitari_fw-la &_o disceptari_fw-la non_fw-la possit_fw-la utrum_fw-la verum_fw-la vel_fw-la utrum_fw-la rectum_fw-la sit_fw-la quicquid_fw-la in_o ea_fw-la scriptum_fw-la esse_fw-la constiterit_fw-la episcoporun_n autem_fw-la literas_fw-la quae_fw-la post_fw-la confirmatum_fw-la canonem_fw-la vel_fw-la scriptae_fw-la sunt_fw-la vel_fw-la scribantur_fw-la &_o per_fw-la sermonem_fw-la fortè_fw-la sapientiorem_fw-la cuiuslibet_fw-la in_o ea_fw-la re_fw-la peritioris_fw-la &_o per_fw-la aliorum_fw-la episcoporum_fw-la graviorem_fw-la auctoritatem_fw-la doctiorumque_fw-la prudentiam_fw-la &_o per_fw-la concilia_fw-la licere_fw-la reprehendi_fw-la siquidem_fw-la eye_v fort_n à_fw-la veritate_fw-la deviatum_fw-la est_fw-la et_fw-la ipsa_fw-la concilia_fw-la quae_fw-la per_fw-la singulas_fw-la regiones_fw-la vel_fw-la provincias_fw-la fiunt_fw-la plenariorum_fw-la conciliorum_fw-la auctoritati_fw-la quae_fw-la fiunt_fw-la ex_fw-la universo_fw-la orbe_fw-la christiano_n sine_fw-la ullis_fw-la ambagibus_fw-la cedere_fw-la ipsaque_fw-la plenariasaepe_fw-la priora_fw-la posterioribus_fw-la emendari_fw-la cum_fw-la aliquo_fw-la experimento_fw-la rerum_fw-la aperitur_fw-la quod_fw-la clausum_fw-la erat_fw-la &_o cognoscitur_fw-la quod_fw-la latebat_fw-la sine_fw-la ullo_fw-la typho_n sacrilegae_fw-la superbiae_fw-la sine_fw-la ulla_fw-la inflata_fw-la ceruice_n arrogantiae_fw-la sine_fw-la ulla_fw-la contentione_n lividae_fw-la invidiae_fw-la cum_fw-la sancta_fw-la humilitate_fw-la cum_fw-la pace_fw-la catholica_fw-la cum_fw-la charitate_fw-la christiana_n that_o be_v to_o say_v who_o know_v not_o that_o the_o holy_a canonical_a scripture_n both_o of_o the_o old_a &_o new_a testament_n be_v contain_v within_o her_o certain_a bound_n and_o that_o the_o same_o be_v so_o prefer_v before_o all_o latter_a writing_n of_o bishop_n that_o of_o it_o there_o can_v be_v any_o doubt_n or_o question_n at_o all_o whether_o it_o be_v true_a or_o whether_o it_o be_v right_a whatsoever_o be_v certain_o know_v to_o be_v write_v therein_o but_o that_o the_o letter_n of_o bishop_n which_o since_o the_o canon_n confirm_v either_o have_v be_v write_v or_o be_v now_o in_o writing_n may_v be_v reprehend_v both_o by_o the_o say_n which_o be_v perhaps_o more_o wise_a of_o any_o man_n that_o be_v more_o skilful_a in_o that_o matter_n &_o also_o by_o the_o more_o grave_a authority_n &_o wisdom_n of_o other_o bishop_n that_o be_v better_o learn_v if_o any_o thing_n in_o they_o perhaps_o be_v decline_v out_o of_o the_o way_n of_o truth_n and_o that_o even_o those_o council_n which_o be_v hold_v in_o every_o region_n or_o province_n without_o all_o doubt_n must_v give_v place_n to_o general_a