Selected quad for the lemma: child_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
child_n	abraham_n	covenant_n	parent_n	4,373	5	8.6541	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A78433	A sober ansvver, to a serious question. Propounded by Mr. G. Firmin minister of the church in Shalford in Essex. viz. Whether the ministers of England are bound, by the Word of God, to baptise the children of all such parents, which say, they believe in Jesus Christ: but are grosly ignorant, scandalous in their conversation, scoffers at godliness, and refuse to submit to church-discipline, the negative is not sufficiently defended. Which may serve also as an appendix to the diatribe with Mr. Hooker, lately published, concerning the baptisme of infants, of parents not confœderate. By Daniel Cavvdrey pastour of the church at Great Billing in Northampton-shire. Licensed, printed, and entred, according to order.	Cawdrey, Daniel, 1588-1664.	1652 (1652)	Wing C1636; Thomason E683_23; ESTC R206820	21,614	39

consideration_n those_o thing_n to_o which_o little_o be_v say_v in_o that_o discourse_n as_o be_v then_o out_o of_o question_n his_o first_o premise_v be_v this_o the_o infant_n abstract_v from_o the_o parent_n give_v no_o reason_n why_o it_o shall_v be_v baptise_a to_o which_o otherwise_o propound_v by_o mr._n hooker_n we_o have_v answer_v already_o 18●_n diatrib_o 6._o p._n 18●_n and_o now_o explain_v ourselves_o further_o thus_o 1._o this_o be_v not_o right_o propose_v of_o all_o child_n or_o any_o whatsoever_o as_o appear_v because_o he_o speak_v indifferent_o of_o the_o child_n of_o a_o turk_n indian_a or_o christian_a live_v together_o in_o a_o parish_n or_o place_n a_o minister_n in_o such_o a_o case_n have_v reason_n to_o ask_v who_o child_n it_o be_v because_o two_o sort_n of_o the_o three_o have_v no_o right_n to_o baptism_n for_o themselves_o or_o they_o but_o the_o question_n intend_v to_o speak_v only_o of_o christian_n child_n for_o so_o it_o be_v propound_v not_o whether_o a_o minister_n at_o large_a in_o any_o place_n but_o of_o england_n where_o all_o be_v christian_n and_o profess_v to_o believe_v in_o jesus_n christ_n then_o it_o be_v suppose_v he_o will_v not_o ask_v who_o it_o be_v in_o that_o respect_n for_o it_o be_v not_o only_a home_n but_o a_o christian_a bear_v 2._o if_o he_o will_v as_o he_o may_v ask_v the_o question_n when_o a_o christian_n child_n be_v bring_v to_o be_v baptise_a it_o be_v not_o to_o know_v whether_o he_o be_v ignorant_a scandalous_a not_o submit_v to_o church-discipline_n etc._n etc._n or_o godly_a such_o question_n be_v never_o ask_v till_o these_o last_o overcurious_a day_n but_o that_o the_o parent_n may_v be_v present_a to_o undertake_v for_o the_o education_n of_o the_o child_n in_o the_o true_a religion_n the_o second_o premise_v be_v this_o all_o child_n be_v baptise_a by_o virtue_n of_o the_o parent_n one_o or_o both_o consider_v in_o relation_n to_o they_o this_o be_v mr._n hooker_n second_o premise_v conclusion_n only_o restrain_v to_o the_o next_o parent_n which_o be_v intend_v by_o our_o author_n also_o 187._o ibid._n p._n 187._o to_o which_o much_o have_v be_v say_v and_o now_o we_o add_v 1._o this_o in_o effect_n be_v the_o same_o with_o the_o former_a that_o the_o negative_a the_o child_n bring_v nothing_o of_o itself_o to_o baptism_n this_o the_o affirmative_a the_o parent_n only_o give_v it_o right_n thereto_o 2._o it_o take_v for_o grant_v what_o be_v deny_v these_o two_o thing_n first_o that_o there_o be_v no_o way_n to_o admit_v a_o child_n to_o baptism_n but_o parental_a by_o virtue_n of_o and_o relation_n to_o the_o parent_n second_o and_o that_o not_o the_o proparent_n or_o predecessor_n but_o the_o next_o immediate_a parent_n which_o be_v two_o question_n the_o first_o whereof_o he_o medle_n not_o with_o at_o al._n 3._o in_o state_v of_o this_o second_o premise_v he_o take_v occasion_n to_o define_v a_o church_n a_o society_n of_o visible_a saint_n join_v together_o by_o way_n of_o covenant_n etc._n etc._n where_o two_o thing_n be_v to_o i_o observable_a 1._o that_o he_o seem_v to_o own_v no_o catholic_a church_n but_o a_o particular_a congregation_n nor_o any_o member_n of_o a_o church_n but_o of_o such_o a_o church_n for_o else_o a_o new_a question_n may_v arise_v whether_o a_o man_n convert_v to_o the_o faith_n but_o as_o yet_o confoederate_a with_o no_o particular_a church_n but_o if_o of_o any_o only_a of_o the_o catholic_n church_n be_v to_o be_v repute_v a_o church_n member_n and_o have_v any_o right_a to_o require_v baptism_n for_o his_o child_n 2._o he_o require_v a_o explicit_a covenant_n to_o such_o a_o church_n seem_v not_o only_o to_o contradict_v himself_o in_o his_o epistle_n where_o he_o grant_v a_o implicit_a covenant_n to_o be_v sufficient_a but_o also_o to_o un-church_n most_o of_o our_o english_a church_n for_o want_v of_o this_o explicite_fw-la covenant_n and_o consequent_o to_o agree_v with_o the_o independent_o as_o in_o that_o point_n so_o in_o this_o in_o deny_v baptism_n to_o any_o child_n but_o of_o member_n explicit_o in_o covenant_n have_v premise_v thus_o he_o infer_v this_o conclusion_n upon_o this_o ground_n all_o our_o argument_n against_o the_o anabaptist_n stand_v and_o if_o this_o be_v take_v away_o infant_n baptism_n must_v fall_v to_o which_o i_o say_v our_o argument_n against_o the_o anabaptist_n stand_v not_o upon_o this_o ground_n only_o but_o their_o argument_n against_o infant_n baptism_n stand_v upon_o the_o notion_n of_o a_o explicite_fw-la covenant_n to_o be_v make_v by_o every_o one_o that_o be_v baptise_a and_o if_o we_o have_v no_o better_a ground_n than_o a_o explicite_fw-la covenant_n our_o cause_n must_v fall_v 186._o diatrib_o 6._o p._n 186._o the_o difference_n be_v not_o great_a the_o anabaptist_n exclude_v child_n because_o they_o be_v not_o able_a to_o covenant_n in_o person_n in_o the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n the_o independent_o exclude_v child_n of_o parent_n not_o join_v to_o gether_o in_o a_o church-covenant_n and_o so_o in_o their_o sense_n no_o member_n of_o a_o church_n as_o be_v say_v elsewhere_o as_o for_o that_o argument_n pag._n 2._o charge_v upon_o amesius_n and_o other_o it_o be_v i_o suppose_v mistake_v for_o it_o be_v not_o bring_v immediate_o to_o prove_v child_n baptism_n because_o they_o be_v capable_a of_o the_o grace_n of_o baptism_n man_n also_o be_v but_o mere_a patient_n in_o the_o first_o receive_v of_o it_o but_o by_o way_n of_o answer_n to_o a_o objection_n make_v against_o it_o by_o the_o anabaptist_n they_o plead_v that_o child_n have_v not_o nor_o be_v capable_a of_o the_o grace_n of_o faith_n and_o repentance_n ergo_fw-la not_o to_o be_v baptize_v our_o divine_n deny_v the_o consequence_n upon_o this_o ground_n they_o be_v capable_a of_o grace_n as_o well_o as_o man_n of_o year_n both_o be_v alike_o but_o patient_n in_o the_o first_o receive_v of_o grace_n therefore_o that_o can_v be_v no_o bar_n to_o their_o baptism_n but_o enough_o of_o that_o it_o be_v not_o proper_o speak_v pag._n 3._o to_o say_v the_o morality_n of_o that_o command_n to_o abraham_n to_o circumcise_v his_o seed_n with_o himself_o stand_v thus_o that_o the_o child_n of_o believer_n must_v have_v the_o imitate_v seal_n the_o analogy_n indeed_o stand_v fair_a under_o several_a dispensation_n of_o the_o same_o covenant_n that_o as_o circumcision_n then_o so_o baptism_n how_o belong_v to_o believer_n and_o their_o child_n unless_o god_n reveal_v himself_o to_o the_o contrary_a which_o concern_v anabaptist_n to_o prove_v by_o express_a scripture_n as_o he_o say_v which_o they_o can_v never_o do_v nay_o the_o contrary_n be_v evident_o continue_v act._n 2.38_o etc._n etc._n 1_o cor._n 7.14_o etc._n etc._n the_o seed_n be_v holy_a by_o the_o parent_n if_o he_o shall_v plead_v a_o morality_n in_o that_o command_n the_o anabaptist_n will_v easy_o deny_v it_o and_o put_v the_o difference_n there_o be_v express_v command_n for_o child_n circumcision_n not_o so_o for_o their_o baptism_n it_o be_v enough_o it_o can_v be_v prove_v by_o consequence_n from_o scripture_n concern_v the_o question_n about_o predecessor_n give_v right_o to_o child_n baptism_n much_o need_v not_o to_o be_v say_v here_o it_o be_v large_o discuss_v in_o the_o foresay_a diatribe_n with_o mr._n hooker_n pag._n 188._o and_o afterward_o all_o that_o i_o shall_v say_v now_o be_v this_o 1._o what_o england_n be_v when_o austin_n come_v into_o england_n we_o need_v not_o much_o inquire_v for_o we_o look_v at_o england_n as_o many_o year_n since_o reform_v we_o need_v not_o go_v to_o many_o generation_n past_a there_o be_v some_o alive_a that_o have_v or_o have_v predecessor_n know_v to_o be_v godly_a let_v the_o question_n be_v of_o they_o and_o two_o of_o they_o undertake_v for_o the_o christian_a education_n of_o the_o child_n and_o though_o it_o be_v true_a that_o some_o people_n receive_v the_o gospel_n after_o the_o example_n of_o their_o king_n and_o be_v baptise_a for_o company_n as_o simon_n magus_n it_o seem_v be_v and_o suppose_v it_o be_v but_o in_o outward_a profession_n only_o yet_o that_o be_v sufficient_a to_o give_v they_o right_o to_o baptism_n for_o themselves_o and_o they_o and_o consequent_o they_o be_v a_o true_a church_n though_o not_o a_o perfect_a and_o pure_a church_n for_o my_o part_n i_o shall_v not_o plead_v that_o promise_n in_o the_o second_o commandment_n show_v mercy_n to_o thousand_o etc._n etc._n but_o rather_o that_o to_o abraham_n i_o be_o thy_o god_n and_o the_o god_n of_o thy_o seed_n which_o whoever_o will_v restrain_v to_o the_o next_o generation_n only_o it_o concern_v he_o to_o prove_v by_o express_a scripture_n as_o he_o require_v above_o in_o a_o like_a case_n of_o anabaptist_n that_o god_n be_v not_o the_o god_n of_o the_o seed_n of_o a_o godly_a christian_a in_o a_o

his_o reason_n be_v of_o no_o force_n for_o it_o shall_v thus_o proceed_v because_o beptisme_n belong_v both_o primary_o and_o only_o to_o the_o next_o parent_n which_o we_o have_v above_o deny_v and_o disprove_v in_o a_o word_n this_o argument_n hold_v only_o in_o respect_n to_o the_o person_n himself_o not_o to_o his_o child_n for_o certain_o the_o child_n that_o be_v baptise_a when_o a_o infant_n be_v the_o child_n of_o a_o member_n have_v right_o to_o baptism_n then_o though_o if_o when_o it_o grow_v up_o it_o prove_v ignorant_a or_o scandalous_a we_o may_v true_o say_v if_o he_o be_v now_o to_o be_v baptise_a he_o ought_v not_o to_o be_v baptise_a hence_o it_o may_v appear_v that_o the_o question_n will_v fall_v only_o upon_o such_o person_n when_o excommunicate_a which_o yet_o be_v no_o qualification_n express_v in_o his_o question_n for_o till_o they_o be_v eject_v they_o have_v right_a by_o his_o own_o confession_n for_o himself_o and_o they_o but_o of_o excommunicate_a person_n we_o have_v speak_v above_o the_o three_o argument_n be_v like_o the_o former_a such_o a_o parent_n be_v no_o disciple_n ergo_fw-la the_o child_n be_v none_o and_o then_o minister_n be_v not_o bind_v to_o baptize_v it_o by_o their_o commission_n we_o answer_v 1._o that_o commission_n be_v for_o the_o first_o gather_v of_o church_n not_o of_o church_n constitute_v 2._o we_o have_v prove_v above_o the_o child_n may_v be_v a_o member_n when_o the_o parent_n at_o present_a be_v none_o be_v excommunicate_v now_o a_o disciple_n and_o a_o member_n be_v all_o one_o 3._o such_o parent_n tolerate_v be_v member_n and_o so_o disciple_n ergo_fw-la the_o child_n be_v a_o disciple_n that_o then_o be_v not_o a_o sound_a assertion_n pag._n 20._o if_o i_o can_v give_v the_o child_n one_o seal_n of_o the_o covenant_n by_o virtue_n of_o the_o parent_n i_o will_v give_v the_o parent_n the_o other_o for_o i_o may_v see_v reason_n to_o deny_v the_o parent_n the_o lord_n supper_n and_o yet_o baptise_v his_o child_n because_o more_o be_v require_v of_o the_o one_o than_o of_o the_o other_o his_o four_o argument_n run_v thus_o to_o give_v the_o seal_n to_o the_o child_n of_o one_o visible_o in_o covenant_n with_o the_o devil_n be_v a_o profane_v of_o the_o ordinance_n etc._n etc._n but_o we_o deny_v that_o every_o ignorant_a scandalous_a person_n and_o the_o rest_n in_o the_o question_n be_v visible_o in_o covenant_n with_o the_o devil_n especial_o if_o tolerate_v by_o the_o church_n for_o so_o long_o he_o be_v visible_o in_o the_o external_a covenant_n of_o the_o church_n 2._o suppose_v the_o person_n be_v excommunicate_a and_o so_o deliver_v unto_o satan_n as_o the_o incestuous_a person_n be_v yet_o it_o be_v hard_a to_o say_v he_o be_v visible_o in_o covenant_n with_o satan_n though_o at_o present_a under_o his_o power_n 3._o every_o gross_a sin_n as_o in_o noah_n david_n etc._n etc._n do_v not_o conclude_v a_o man_n visible_o in_o covenant_n 190_o diatrib_o p._n 190_o much_o less_o ignorance_n as_o in_o child_n and_o youth_n baptise_a 2._o last_o of_o all_o one_o not_o convince_v and_o therefore_o not_o submit_v unto_o discipline_n see_v whether_o this_o new_a way_n lead_v its_o follower_n his_o five_o argument_n be_v take_v from_o mischief_n attend_v the_o common_a baptise_v of_o the_o child_n of_o such_o 1._o the_o slight_n of_o this_o ordinance_n without_o any_o preparation_n to_o it_o but_o all_o this_o may_v be_v amend_v by_o press_v the_o due_a reverence_n to_o this_o as_o to_o the_o other_o sacrament_n better_a then_o by_o debar_v the_o child_n its_o right_n for_o the_o parent_n fault_n 2._o be_v a_o jumble_v of_o the_o child_n of_o the_o most_o holy_a with_o the_o profane_v etc._n etc._n this_o fall_v upon_o himself_o for_o if_o the_o wicked_a parent_n be_v tolerate_v he_o will_v not_o he_o may_v not_o deny_v to_o baptise_v their_o child_n no_o more_o than_o of_o the_o holy_a parent_n he_o may_v grieve_v that_o he_o can_v reform_v this_o abuse_n but_o need_v not_o scruple_n to_o baptise_v their_o child_n nor_o to_o pray_v for_o they_o as_o for_o the_o other_o and_o now_o he_o come_v to_o the_o great_a objection_n the_o jew_n though_o very_o wicked_a have_v their_o child_n circumcise_v ergo_fw-la he_o answer_v many_o way_n 1._o he_o mention_n again_o that_o observation_n of_o gillespy_n that_o some_o say_v that_o the_o child_n of_o excommunicate_v jew_n be_v not_o circumcise_v but_o he_o do_v well_o to_o wave_v it_o as_o for_o what_o we_o say_v to_o it_o above_o so_o because_o it_o be_v nothing_o to_o the_o question_n which_o be_v not_o of_o excommunicate_v parent_n but_o wicked_a parent_n tolerate_v 2._o he_o suppose_v they_o be_v not_o so_o guilty_a of_o ignorance_n as_o many_o of_o we_o but_o that_o be_v nothing_o to_o the_o question_n their_o child_n be_v as_o ignorant_a as_o we_o and_o the_o parent_n never_o excommunicate_v for_o ignorance_n nor_o their_o child_n deny_v circumcision_n for_o that_o reason_n but_o close_a to_o the_o point_n he_o say_v 3._o he_o will_v see_v a_o proof_n that_o the_o priest_n do_v debar_v many_o from_o the_o passeover_n for_o moral_a uncleanness_n many_o year_n as_o we_o do_v from_o the_o supper_n and_o yet_o have_v their_o child_n circumcise_v we_o answer_v 1._o the_o priest_n be_v blame_v for_o admit_v the_o moral_o unclean_a to_o some_o ordinance_n but_o it_o concern_v he_o to_o prove_v where_o ever_o they_o be_v blame_v for_o circumcise_n the_o child_n of_o such_o see_v ezech._n 44.7.9_o cite_v by_o himself_o pag._n 35._o to_o the_o same_o end_n 2._o it_o be_v doubtful_a at_o least_o whether_o the_o practice_n of_o those_o minister_n can_v be_v justify_v who_o suspend_v any_o so_o long_o from_o the_o supper_n and_o yet_o baptise_v their_o child_n therefore_o that_o can_v be_v no_o safe_a ground_n to_o debar_v child_n of_o such_o from_o baptism_n of_o which_o see_v mr._n jeanes_n 4._o he_o conceive_v something_o peculiar_a to_o they_o in_o that_o national_a constitution_n from_o we_o god_n enter_v covenant_n with_o abraham_n and_o his_o family_n command_v he_o to_o circumcise_v his_o seed_n the_o constitution_n of_o our_o church_n do_v not_o begin_v with_o any_o particular_a person_n but_o make_v disciple_n and_o baptise_v they_o but_o this_o make_v no_o great_a difference_n for_o a_o church_n christian_n may_v begin_v with_o a_o person_n and_o his_o family_n suppose_v one_o of_o a_o numerous_a family_n when_o he_o be_v disciple_v his_o house_n be_v disciple_v with_o he_o and_o there_o may_v be_v a_o church_n in_o his_o house_n yea_o every_o householder_n convert_v to_o the_o faith_n be_v a_o child_n of_o abraham_n in_o one_o sense_n and_o a_o root_n to_o his_o posterity_n in_o another_o and_o so_o the_o promise_n be_v make_v to_o he_o and_o his_o seed_n not_o only_o of_o the_o next_o but_o of_o remote_a generation_n till_o they_o apostate_n as_o ishmael_n and_o esau_n do_v he_o yield_v pag._n 33._o that_o descent_n by_o the_o flesh_n be_v one_o though_o not_o the_o sole_a ground_n of_o circumcision_n and_o so_o it_o be_v now_o 1_o cor._n 7.14_o let_v we_o see_v what_o be_v peculiar_a to_o they_o 1._o when_o they_o come_v to_o john_n baptism_n it_o be_v not_o sufficient_a to_o plead_v we_o be_v abraham_n seed_n ergo_fw-la baptise_v we_o true_o because_o this_o be_v a_o new_a dispensation_n a_o new_a ordinance_n to_o which_o repentance_n be_v require_v in_o the_o first_o parent_n but_o not_o of_o their_o infant_n and_o just_o so_o it_o be_v in_o circumcision_n of_o proselyte_n to_o the_o jewish_a religion_n 2._o when_o they_o fall_v to_o foul_a apostasy_n their_o child_n be_v still_o circumcise_a whether_o regular_o he_o leave_v it_o yes_o regular_o for_o aught_o appear_v to_o the_o contrary_a the_o rule_n be_v abraham_n and_o his_o seed_n must_v be_v circumcise_v and_o so_o the_o proportion_n hold_v for_o baptism_n if_o the_o parent_n fall_v into_o apostasy_n the_o child_n may_v regular_o be_v baptize_v for_o aught_o appear_v in_o the_o gospel_n to_o the_o contrary_a if_o they_o will_v give_v they_o up_o to_o their_o pro-parent_n or_o friend_n and_o they_o will_v undertake_v for_o they_o and_o in_o such_o a_o case_n a_o minister_n will_v baptise_v they_o 3._o they_o be_v very_o exact_a in_o admission_n of_o heathen_n more_o require_a than_o to_o profess_v they_o do_v believe_v in_o god_n etc._n etc._n so_o will_v we_o be_v in_o admission_n of_o infidel_n but_o that_o be_v nothing_o to_o admission_n of_o their_o child_n 4._o it_o be_v true_a that_o wicked_a jew_n be_v member_n of_o that_o church_n national_a may_v challenge_v circumcision_n so_o for_o wicked_a person_n so_o long_o as_o they_o continue_v member_n and_o the_o church_n let_v they_o alone_o they_o may_v challenge_v baptism_n now_o this_o express_o yield_v both_o the_o present_a

a_o sober_a answer_n to_o a_o serious_a question_n propound_v by_o mr._n g._n firmin_n minister_n of_o the_o church_n in_o shalford_n in_o essex_n viz._n whether_o the_o minister_n of_o england_n be_v bind_v by_o the_o word_n of_o god_n to_o baptise_v the_o child_n of_o all_o such_o parent_n which_o say_v they_o believe_v in_o jesus_n christ_n but_o be_v gross_o ignorant_a scandalous_a in_o their_o conversation_n scoffer_n at_o godliness_n and_o refuse_v to_o submit_v to_o church-discipline_n the_o negative_a be_v not_o sufficient_o defend_v which_o may_v serve_v also_o as_o a_o appendix_n to_o the_o diatribe_n with_o mr._n hooker_n late_o publish_v concern_v the_o baptism_n of_o infant_n of_o parent_n not_o confoederate_a by_o daniel_n cawdrey_n pastor_n of_o the_o church_n at_o great_a bill_v in_o northamptonshire_n mark_v 10.14_o suffer_v the_o little_a child_n to_o come_v unto_o i_o and_o forbid_v they_o not_o for_o of_o such_o be_v the_o kingdom_n of_o god_n license_v print_v and_o enter_v according_a to_o order_n london_n print_a for_o christopher_n meredith_n at_o the_o sign_n of_o the_o crane_n in_o paul_n churchyard_n 1652._o to_o the_o judicious_a but_o indifferent_a reader_n it_o be_v as_o the_o reverend_a author_n of_o the_o question_n now_o before_o we_o say_v in_o the_o very_a entrance_n of_o his_o epistle_n to_o the_o reader_n a_o very_a sad_a and_o uncomfortable_a state_n of_o a_o disease_a church_n when_o the_o physician_n be_v at_o difference_n concern_v the_o way_n of_o cure_v the_o patient_n this_o as_o in_o other_o thing_n by_o other_o be_v real_o exemplify_v in_o himself_o and_o one_o mr._n jeanes_n in_o a_o learned_a tract_n of_o his_o entitle_v the_o want_n of_o church_n government_n no_o warrant_n for_o a_o total_a omission_n of_o the_o lord_n supper_n who_o both_o intend_v the_o cure_n of_o their_o disease_a flock_n go_v clean_o contrary_a way_n to_o effect_v it_o he_o be_v so_o far_o from_o deny_v child_n of_o the_o most_o scandalous_a the_o privilege_n of_o baptism_n that_o he_o admit_v such_o parent_n to_o the_o lord_n supper_n plead_v the_o necessity_n of_o that_o ordinance_n and_o his_o own_o want_n of_o power_n to_o amend_v or_o keep_v they_o away_o our_o author_n on_o the_o other_o side_n not_o only_o keep_v such_o parent_n from_o the_o lord_n supper_n but_o also_o deny_v baptism_n the_o other_o sacrament_n to_o their_o child_n the_o one_o way_n seem_v to_o some_o to_o tend_v to_o the_o profanation_n of_o that_o ordinance_n the_o other_o to_o the_o division_n if_o not_o the_o destruction_n of_o the_o church_n by_o make_v all_o at_o least_o the_o great_a part_n of_o the_o child_n of_o congregation_n little_o better_o than_o infidel_n and_o which_o of_o of_o these_o two_o way_n of_o cure_n be_v best_a or_o worst_a be_v hard_o to_o say_v i_o shall_v say_v nothing_o at_o present_a of_o the_o former_a but_o with_o leave_n something_a of_o the_o latter_a with_o as_o much_o mildness_n and_o meekness_n as_o i_o can_v for_o he_o say_v true_o he_o have_v not_o so_o handle_v the_o question_n as_o to_o deserve_v a_o sharp_a answer_n pag._n last_o have_v he_o see_v which_o i_o conceive_v he_o have_v not_o a_o tract_n late_o come_v forth_o call_v the_o inconsistency_n of_o the_o independent_a way_n with_o scripture_n and_o with_o itself_o he_o have_v find_v a_o diatribe_n there_o with_o reverend_n mr._n hooker_n about_o almost_o his_o very_a question_n which_o either_o may_v have_v prevent_v his_o publication_n or_o have_v give_v he_o occasion_n to_o alter_v or_o enlarge_v his_o thought_n in_o some_o particular_n his_o ground_n be_v most_o of_o they_o take_v from_o mr._n hooker_n and_o the_o answer_n and_o argument_n against_o he_o fall_v full_a upon_o his_o own_o the_o difference_n between_o they_o be_v not_o great_a if_o any_o at_o all_o the_o one_o mr._n hooker_n require_v a_o explicite_fw-la covenant_n to_o make_v church_n member_n and_o allow_v no_o child_n of_o the_o most_o know_a and_o godly_a parent_n not_o confederate_a the_o privilege_n of_o baptism_n the_o other_o seem_v to_o deny_v baptism_n only_o to_o the_o child_n of_o those_o who_o be_v gross_o ignorant_a scandalous_a etc._n etc._n i_o say_v he_o seem_v only_o to_o do_v this_o for_o both_o he_o speak_v suspicious_o sometime_o towards_o a_o explicite_fw-la covenant_n and_o his_o question_n as_o it_o stand_v in_o terminis_fw-la not_o be_v at_o all_o explicate_v if_o not_o right_o take_v may_v seem_v also_o to_o exclude_v the_o child_n of_o such_o as_o submit_v not_o to_o church-discipline_n though_o know_v and_o godly_a and_o pag._n 9_o of_o his_o epistle_n he_o require_v express_o as_o a_o qualification_n of_o a_o member_n that_o he_o profess_v his_o subjection_n to_o discipline_n which_o be_v tantamount_n if_o not_o the_o same_o with_o the_o independent_o explicite_fw-la covenant_n yet_o herein_o he_o be_v to_o be_v commend_v that_o he_o be_v not_o so_o rigid_a as_o they_o be_v in_o his_o qualification_n or_o admission_n of_o member_n and_o see_v we_o be_v accidental_o fall_v upon_o the_o explicite_fw-la covenant_n i_o shall_v consider_v what_o he_o say_v of_o it_o in_o his_o epistle_n though_o i_o may_v refer_v he_o to_o the_o tract_n aforesaid_a where_o it_o be_v full_o handle_v in_o pag._n 16._o of_o his_o epistle_n thus_o he_o speak_v some_o minister_n scorn_v the_o notion_n that_o a_o explicit_a covenant_n be_v the_o form_n of_o a_o church_n visible_a and_o some_o professor_n be_v so_o rigid_a for_o it_o that_o without_o it_o they_o deny_v all_o church_n of_o the_o late_a sort_n be_v mr._n hooker_n himself_o though_o sometime_o he_o grant_v a_o implicit_a covenant_n sufficient_a for_o part_v 3._o of_o his_o survey_n pag._n 11._o he_o say_v express_o non_fw-la confoederate_a person_n in_o their_o sense_n be_v non_fw-fr member_n of_o the_o church_n etc._n etc._n and_o consequent_o their_o child_n have_v no_o title_n to_o baptism_n which_o be_v one_o of_o our_o author_n argument_n in_o pag._n 10._o of_o his_o book_n borrow_v from_o mr._n hooker_n part_n ●_o p._n 24._o whereby_o he_o unmember_v and_o unchurche_n all_v not_o so_o constitute_v for_o my_o part_n i_o scorn_v not_o such_o a_o notion_n but_o with_o apollonius_n and_o other_o think_v it_o lawful_a though_o not_o necessary_a as_o the_o form_n to_o the_o be_v of_o the_o church_n the_o impsicite_fw-la be_v of_o itself_o confess_v to_o be_v full_o sufficient_a but_o i_o require_v a_o proof_n of_o the_o necessity_n of_o it_o all_o that_o can_v reasonable_o be_v say_v be_v but_o this_o that_o it_o be_v very_o requisite_a and_o expedient_a in_o corrupt_a church_n in_o a_o time_n of_o reformation_n to_o renew_v the_o covenant_n with_o god_n and_o that_o include_v the_o covenant_n of_o pastor_n and_o member_n and_o of_o member_n one_o with_o another_o to_o walk_v with_o god_n and_o one_o another_o in_o all_o relation_n our_o author_n himself_o seem_v to_o grant_v the_o implicit_a covenant_n may_v serve_v to_o the_o esse_fw-la formale_a but_o then_o in_o a_o manner_n recall_v his_o grant_n again_o when_o he_o say_v there_o though_o explicitenesse_n be_v not_o essential_a to_o the_o esse_fw-la formale_a of_o a_o church_n yet_o you_o will_v find_v it_o almost_o essential_a to_o the_o esse_fw-la of_o a_o government_n etc._n etc._n else_o when_o you_o come_v to_o exercise_v discipline_n you_o will_v find_v some_o member_n explicit_o stubborn_a to_o spurn_v the_o implicit_a covenant_n at_o their_o heel_n true_o they_o that_o be_v such_o can_v as_o well_o spurn_v the_o explicite_fw-la also_o and_o in_o this_o looseness_n or_o rather_o want_v of_o church-government_n can_v remove_v from_o his_o church_n to_o another_o and_o ease_v themselves_o of_o his_o most_o explicite_fw-la covenant_n they_o of_o who_o he_o speak_v there_o that_o acknowledge_v discipline_n as_o a_o ordinance_n and_o say_v to_o he_o that_o if_o they_o have_v not_o promise_v he_o to_o submit_v to_o discipline_n he_o have_v no_o power_n over_o they_o speak_v not_o aright_o for_o by_o the_o explicite_fw-la covenant_n of_o christianity_n they_o be_v bind_v implicit_o to_o all_o god_n ordinance_n of_o which_o this_o be_v one_o and_o he_o have_v thereby_o power_n over_o they_o and_o by_o the_o implicit_a consent_n to_o church-government_n in_o that_o implicit_a covenant_n which_o be_v in_o every_o parochial_a congregation_n pag._n 17._o they_o be_v bou●d_v to_o he_o and_o he_o have_v power_n over_o they_o though_o they_o do_v not_o explicit_o promise_v he_o to_o submit_v to_o he_o yea_o that_o covenant_n both_o general_a of_o christianity_n and_o special_a in_o join_v with_o a_o parochial_a congregation_n if_o he_o will_v improve_v it_o and_o press_v the_o obligation_n of_o it_o upon_o his_o people_n be_v sufficient_a to_o persuade_v they_o to_o submit_v and_o authorise_v he_o to_o exercise_v discipline_n upon_o they_o etc._n see_v review_n of_o survey_n part_n

second_o or_o three_o generation_n but_o only_o of_o the_o first_o which_o i_o believe_v he_o can_v do_v it_o may_v true_o be_v say_v though_o the_o immediate_a parent_n godly_a do_v give_v right_a to_o his_o child_n for_o baptism_n yet_o if_o that_o child_n grow_v up_o prove_v scandalous_a his_o parent_n godliness_n do_v not_o give_v he_o now_o right_o to_o the_o lord_n supper_n because_o he_o himself_o put_v in_o a_o bar_n to_o keep_v he_o from_o the_o supper_n the_o reason_n be_v because_o more_o be_v require_v of_o he_o for_o the_o supper_n than_o for_o baptism_n but_o than_o say_v he_o if_o so_o why_o do_v not_o the_o scandalous_a life_n of_o the_o immediate_a parent_n put_v a_o bar_n between_o the_o child_n to_o be_v baptise_a and_o his_o predecessor_n the_o answer_n be_v the_o child_n must_v not_o suffer_v for_o the_o parent_n personal_a sin_n true_o say_v he_o for_o eternal_a punishment_n but_o we_o say_v not_o for_o temporal_a or_o spiritual_a punishment_n he_o reply_v not_o indeed_o when_o it_o be_v consider_v without_o relation_n to_o the_o parent_n which_o it_o can_v in_o this_o case_n and_o so_o may_v suffer_v by_o he_o to_o which_o we_o answer_v 1._o the_o jew_n child_n can_v no_o more_o be_v consider_v without_o relation_n to_o their_o parent_n than_o we_o yet_o the_o wickedness_n of_o a_o jew_n hinder_v not_o their_o circumcision_n 2._o we_o must_v distinguish_v between_o the_o general_a state_n or_o a_o parent_n and_o his_o personal_a wickedness_n if_o his_o state_n be_v that_o of_o a_o infidel_n the_o child_n suffer_v with_o he_o but_o if_o he_o be_v for_o state_n a_o christian_n the_o child_n be_v bear_v a_o christian_a and_o the_o parent_n personal_a sin_n be_v not_o impute_v to_o the_o child_n to_o hinder_v his_o baptism_n it_o have_v beside_o its_o relation_n to_o its_o parent_n a_o birth-priviledge_n as_o bear_v of_o christian_a predecessor_n and_o thereby_o may_v challenge_v the_o seal_n of_o baptism_n 3._o all_o this_o proceed_v upon_o his_o former_a supposition_n that_o there_o be_v no_o way_n to_o admit_v child_n to_o baptism_n but_o the_o parent_n and_o that_o the_o next_o and_o immediate_a parent_n which_o be_v large_o confute_v in_o the_o diatribe_n chap._n 2._o last_o all_o this_o discourse_n be_v destroy_v by_o what_o he_o often_o yield_v that_o a_o wicked_a parent_n tolerate_v may_v give_v right_a to_o a_o child_n baptism_n his_o case_n of_o one_o in_o corinth_n convert_v old_a have_v child_n infidel_n which_o have_v also_o child_n whether_o will_v a_o minister_n baptise_v the_o infant_n by_o virtue_n of_o the_o grandfather_n be_v not_o our_o ease_n where_o both_o father_n and_o grandfather_n be_v christian_n yet_o what_o minister_n that_o understand_v himself_o will_v scruple_n to_o baptise_v the_o child_n of_o a_o infidel_n parent_n suppose_v he_o either_o dead_a or_o resign_v his_o child_n up_o to_o the_o grandfather_n to_o be_v christian-like_a educate_v all_o that_o he_o say_v against_o it_o be_v but_o some_o accidental_a inconvenience_n that_o may_v follow_v as_o first_o the_o grandfather_n be_v old_a may_v die_v quick_o before_o the_o child_n grow_v up_o etc._n etc._n so_o may_v the_o father_n though_o a_o christian_a and_o never_o so_o godly_a yea_o both_o the_o parent_n who_o then_o shall_v take_v care_n for_o it_o again_o the_o infidel_n will_v not_o let_v his_o father_n baptise_v the_o child_n who_o have_v most_o right_o over_o the_o child_n the_o father_n or_o grandfather_n but_o suppose_v the_o infidel_n willing_a to_o give_v up_o his_o child_n to_o the_o grandfather_n what_o say_v he_o then_o that_o many_o thing_n may_v fall_v out_o to_o hinder_v the_o act_n of_o baptism_n of_o such_o a_o infant_n be_v nothing_o to_o the_o question_n the_o question_n be_v whether_o it_o can_v hinder_v its_o right_n if_o the_o grandfather_n also_o will_v undertake_v for_o it_o or_o some_o other_o friend_n what_o say_v he_o then_o if_o the_o mother_n be_v a_o christian_n though_o the_o father_n a_o infidel_n yet_o she_o can_v give_v a_o right_a to_o the_o child_n baptism_n this_o he_o confess_v pag._n 10._o but_o the_o father_n a_o infidel_n will_v not_o suffer_v it_o to_o be_v baptise_a or_o if_o baptise_a will_v breed_v it_o up_o in_o his_o idolatry_n i_o ask_v as_o he_o who_o have_v most_o right_a over_o the_o child_n the_o father_n or_o the_o mother_n yet_o the_o child_n undeniable_o have_v right_o to_o baptism_n by_o the_o mother_n so_o then_o there_o may_v be_v a_o right_a to_o baptism_n where_o no_o power_n to_o act_v it_o 188._o see_v diatrib_n p._n 188._o so_o it_o may_v be_v in_o the_o grandfather_n for_o aught_o be_v yet_o say_v it_o be_v true_a that_o aquinas_n say_v in_o his_o 8._o pag._n child_n of_o infidel_n be_v not_o to_o be_v baptise_a white_a they_o be_v under_o their_o care_n and_o power_n against_o their_o will_n but_o this_o seem_v to_o grant_v that_o if_o they_o be_v willing_o resign_v to_o the_o care_n and_o power_n of_o a_o christian_a undertaker_n they_o may_v be_v baptise_a and_o then_o the_o church_n do_v not_o act_n against_o the_o law_n of_o nature_n which_o be_v his_o fear_n and_o needless_a exception_n but_o he_o renew_v his_o plea_n then_o though_o there_o be_v none_o to_o educate_v this_o child_n for_o the_o ignorant_a profane_a parent_n will_v not_o but_o teach_v they_o how_o to_o break_v the_o covenant_n predecessor_n can_v they_o be_v dead_a yet_o we_o must_v seal_v to_o this_o child_n let_v the_o church_n take_v it_o and_o take_v care_n of_o it_o say_v we_o but_o say_v he_o where_o do_v you_o see_v church_n take_v care_n of_o such_o child_n etc._n etc._n we_o answer_v he_o need_v not_o go_v far_o to_o see_v this_o he_o may_v perhaps_o see_v it_o in_o his_o own_o parish_n our_o church_n or_o state_n have_v order_v very_o commendable_o and_o charitable_o that_o the_o child_n of_o very_a papist_n be_v take_v from_o they_o and_o breed_v up_o protestant_n yea_o every_o parish_n be_v order_v to_o take_v care_n of_o their_o own_o poor_a orphan_n if_o they_o can_v the_o state_n with_o the_o charity_n of_o good_a man_n have_v provide_v hospital_n and_o school_n for_o such_o child_n education_n we_o will_v put_v he_o a_o case_n suppose_v both_o the_o next_o parent_n be_v church-member_n die_v and_o leave_v infant_n have_v no_o know_v kindred_n in_o or_o near_o that_o place_n who_o shall_v take_v care_n of_o they_o we_o say_v the_o church_n whereof_o the_o parent_n be_v member_n for_o the_o child_n baptize_v be_v member_n of_o that_o church_n and_o the_o church_n ought_v to_o take_v care_n of_o they_o if_o the_o congregational_a church_n neglect_v this_o they_o come_v short_a of_o our_o parochial_a church_n though_o they_o pretend_v not_o only_o more_o piety_n but_o more_o charity_n also_o to_o their_o own_o member_n in_o a_o christian_a church_n or_o state_n there_o ought_v to_o be_v a_o care_n of_o child_n of_o parent_n decease_v both_o in_o temporal_a and_o spiritual_a respect_n and_o now_o we_o be_v come_v to_o the_o common_a objection_n 212._o see_v ubi_fw-la suprae_fw-la p._n 212._o where_o shall_v we_o stay_v how_o far_o may_v we_o go_v for_o this_o predecessor_n how_o many_o generation_n etc._n etc._n this_o be_v full_o answer_v elsewhere_o we_o only_o once_o again_o desire_v he_o to_o prove_v by_o express_a scripture_n that_o the_o promise_n i_o will_v be_v thy_o god_n and_o the_o god_n of_o thy_o seed_n extend_v not_o only_o to_o the_o next_o generation_n or_o to_o how_o many_o generation_n it_o be_v limit_v something_o he_o speak_v to_o this_o purpose_n pag._n 28._o we_o find_v many_o promise_n make_v to_o the_o posterity_n of_o godly_a parent_n gen._n 17.7_o etc._n etc._n now_o if_o the_o child_n of_o such_o parent_n grow_v up_o and_o though_o but_o young_a yet_o read_v they_o find_v such_o promise_n or_o hear_v of_o they_o it_o seem_v these_o poor_a child_n must_v not_o lay_v hold_n of_o the_o promise_n and_o claim_v it_o by_o virtue_n of_o their_o parent_n and_o plead_v it_o with_o god_n etc._n etc._n for_o sure_a if_o god_n will_v not_o so_o much_o as_o give_v they_o a_o outward_a seal_n of_o the_o covenant_n by_o virtue_n of_o the_o parent_n the_o poor_a child_n can_v plead_v these_o promise_n which_o come_v by_o the_o parent_n thus_o he_o and_o well_o argue_v against_o the_o anabaptist_n do_v but_o but_o change_v the_o word_n parent_n into_o progenitor_n grandfather_n or_o grandmother_n and_o the_o plea_n be_v strong_a against_o himself_o lord_n i_o be_o sure_a my_o grandfather_n etc._n etc._n be_v a_o godly_a man_n my_o grandmother_n a_o godly_a woman_n thou_o have_v make_v many_o promise_n to_o the_o posterity_n of_o such_o not_o only_o to_o the_o next_o but_o as_o i_o think_v remote_a generation_n though_o my_o next_o parent_n be_v both_o wicked_a and_o

so_o we_o be_v at_o once_o un-churched_n and_o dismember_v and_o a_o new_a frame_n to_o be_v mould_v which_o be_v flat_a independentisme_n brownism_n if_o not_o anabaptism_n which_o this_o our_o author_n seem_v to_o have_v renounce_v and_o now_o his_o argument_n will_v be_v easy_o dissolve_v the_o first_o be_v this_o such_o person_n as_o the_o question_n mention_n de_fw-la jure_fw-la ought_v and_o de_fw-fr facto_fw-la be_v exclude_v from_o the_o lord_n supper_n therefore_o they_o ought_v to_o be_v exclude_v from_o their_o child_n baptism_n first_o i_o deny_v the_o antecedent_n in_o the_o first_o part_n of_o it_o some_o of_o the_o person_n mention_v in_o the_o question_n ought_v not_o the_o jure_v to_o be_v exclude_v from_o the_o lord_n supper_n as_o namely_o such_o as_o refuse_v to_o submit_v to_o discipline_n if_o godly_a but_o not_o convince_v yet_o of_o the_o divine_a authority_n of_o discipline_n this_o be_v nothing_o but_o the_o rigid_a way_n of_o the_o independent_o who_o exclude_v from_o the_o lord_n supper_n and_o church-communion_n those_o that_o can_v subscribe_v to_o their_o church_n covenant_n explicite_fw-la be_v they_o never_o so_o godly_a and_o know_v as_o be_v say_v above_o second_o all_o those_o that_o the_o question_n mention_n ought_v not_o to_o be_v exclude_v from_o the_o lord_n supper_n while_o they_o be_v tolerate_v in_o the_o church_n this_o be_v his_o own_o confession_n often_o and_o consequent_o ought_v not_o to_o be_v exclude_v from_o their_o child_n baptism_n then_o for_o the_o latter_a part_n that_o they_o be_v de_fw-fr facto_fw-la exclude_v admit_v a_o question_n whether_o they_o be_v not_o unjust_o exclude_v and_o it_o be_v resolve_v to_o be_v so_o not_o only_o by_o mr._n jean_n his_o argument_n but_o as_o a_o consequence_n of_o the_o former_a if_o de_fw-la jure_fw-la they_o ought_v not_o to_o be_v exclude_v then_o de_fw-la facto_fw-la they_o be_v unjust_o exclude_v which_o be_v worthy_a all_o minister_n consideration_n who_o for_o many_o year_n have_v have_v no_o sacrament_n for_o fear_n of_o admit_v such_o as_o the_o question_n mention_n whereby_o pretend_v they_o want_v power_n of_o a_o eldership_n no_o government_n be_v settle_v they_o usurp_v inconsiderate_o perhaps_o a_o power_n above_o the_o eldership_n to_o exclude_v not_o only_o such_o but_o their_o whole_a parish_n by_o their_o own_o single_a power_n but_o see_v into_o what_o strait_n the_o new_a way_n have_v bring_v we_o they_o cry_v out_o of_o our_o church_n and_o separate_v from_o they_o because_o of_o our_o mix_a communion_n and_o now_o minister_n abstain_v from_o the_o administration_n of_o the_o supper_n for_o fear_v of_o a_o mixture_n they_o cry_v out_o again_o and_o call_v people_n to_o separate_v from_o we_o because_o we_o want_v a_o ordinance_n the_o lord_n judge_n between_o we_o in_o this_o matter_n but_o now_o for_o the_o consequence_n that_o therefore_o they_o ought_v to_o be_v exclude_v from_o their_o child_n baptism_n it_o be_v also_o deny_v and_o all_o the_o proof_n thereof_o for_o it_o shall_v proceed_v of_o the_o same_o not_o of_o several_a person_n thus_o those_o that_o de_fw-fr jure_v aught_o and_o de_fw-fr facto_fw-la be_v exclude_v from_o the_o lord_n supper_n ought_v if_o now_o they_o be_v to_o be_v baptise_a also_o to_o be_v exclude_v from_o baptism_n for_o themselves_o as_o backward_o if_o exclude_v just_o from_o baptism_n much_o more_o from_o the_o lord_n supper_n but_o it_o hold_v not_o with_o respect_n to_o their_o child_n as_o we_o have_v hear_v by_o his_o own_o confession_n the_o young_a child_n of_o member_n be_v unfit_a to_o be_v admit_v to_o the_o lord_n supper_n yet_o not_o to_o be_v exclude_v from_o baptism_n the_o reason_n be_v because_o more_o be_v require_v to_o the_o lord_n supper_n then_o to_o their_o baptism_n the_o proof_n be_v as_o weak_a as_o the_o consequence_n baptism_n seal_v to_o the_o same_o covenant_n as_o the_o lord_n supper_n do_v ergo_fw-la if_o exclude_v from_o one_o they_o ought_v to_o be_v exclude_v from_o the_o other_o it_o hold_v good_a against_o themselves_o not_o their_o child_n the_o proof_n of_o this_o be_v like_o the_o former_a the_o ground_n of_o exclusion_n from_o both_o be_v the_o same_o viz_o because_o those_o person_n appear_v not_o such_o as_o to_o who_o those_o privilege_n do_v belong_v this_o be_v false_a in_o respect_n to_o their_o child_n and_o all_o these_o consequence_n be_v ground_v upon_o his_o first_o false_a premise_v supposition_n at_o the_o begin_n viz._n that_o the_o child_n have_v no_o right_a but_o in_o relation_n to_o the_o next_o parent_n which_o be_v confute_v above_o and_o now_o we_o add_v brief_o 1._o it_o be_v birth-priviledge_n that_o be_v bear_v a_o christian_a of_o a_o christian_a give_v it_o right_n as_o of_o old_a to_o circumcision_n 2._o it_o may_v have_v right_a from_o a_o grandfather_n or_o by_o adoption_n etc._n etc._n 3._o neither_o the_o scripture_n nor_o any_o history_n that_o we_o remember_v give_v a_o instance_n that_o the_o personal_a default_n of_o a_o christian_a parent_n baptise_a ever_o hinder_v the_o child_n from_o baptism_n 4._o himself_o confute_v his_o own_o argument_n by_o often_o grant_v that_o such_o as_o in_o the_o question_n tolerate_v by_o the_o church_n have_v right_a for_o themselves_o and_o they_o let_v he_o consider_v it_o whereupon_o his_o observation_n pag._n 19_o of_o admit_v the_o child_n to_o baptism_n in_o the_o afternoon_n who_o parent_n in_o the_o morning_n be_v exclude_v from_o the_o supper_n need_v not_o seem_v so_o strange_a and_o his_o dilemma_n may_v be_v retort_v upon_o himself_o thus_o he_o grant_v a_o wicked_a person_n tolerate_v may_v be_v admit_v to_o the_o lord_n supper_n and_o his_o child_n to_o baptism_n only_o he_o say_v de_fw-la jure_fw-la he_o ought_v to_o be_v exclude_v now_o i_o will_v ask_v as_o he_o do_v such_o a_o man_n appear_v to_o be_v under_o the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n or_o no_o if_o so_o why_o shall_v he_o de_fw-la jure_fw-la be_v exclude_v if_o not_o why_o shall_v he_o de_fw-fr facto_fw-la be_v admit_v or_o why_o do_v he_o give_v baptism_n to_o the_o child_n which_o say_v he_o must_v suppose_v the_o parent_n to_o be_v within_o the_o covenant_n so_o here_o be_v a_o believer_n and_o no_o believer_n in_o a_o short_a time_n and_o yet_o the_o same_o man_n let_v he_o answer_v one_o and_o both_o he_o grant_v suspension_n from_o the_o lord_n supper_n in_o some_o sense_n pag._n 19_o of_o one_o fall_v into_o some_o gross_a sin_n and_o i_o think_v he_o do_v not_o deny_v baptism_n to_o the_o child_n of_o such_o which_o if_o he_o yield_v he_o destroy_v his_o own_o argument_n and_o question_n as_o for_o his_o quaere_fw-la whether_o if_o the_o parent_n be_v suspend_v from_o the_o supper_n his_o child_n may_v not_o also_o be_v suspend_v for_o the_o present_a till_o he_o repent_v be_v the_o child_n depend_v on_o the_o parent_n etc._n etc._n may_v be_v thus_o answer_v by_o his_o own_o principle_n the_o parent_n though_o suspend_v from_o the_o supper_n be_v yet_o a_o church-member_n till_o he_o be_v excommunicate_v then_o have_v he_o right_a to_o give_v his_o child_n baptism_n if_o the_o parent_n sin_n do_v annul_v his_o own_o baptism_n or_o render_v he_o a_o heathen_a again_o it_o be_v a_o question_n whether_o it_o do_v not_o hinder_v his_o child_n baptism_n but_o suspension_n do_v not_o that_o nor_o excommunication_n but_o utter_a apostasy_n only_o beside_o it_o will_v be_v prove_v that_o that_o which_o suspend_v from_o one_o privilege_n suspend_v from_o all_o and_o that_o for_o his_o child_n as_o well_o as_o for_o himself_o the_o child_n we_o say_v have_v a_o native_a right_n it_o seem_v unreasonable_a and_o injurious_a that_o the_o parent_n personal_a fault_n shall_v suspend_v it_o else_o in_o this_o case_n there_o be_v no_o difference_n between_o the_o child_n of_o a_o christian_a and_o of_o a_o infidel_n the_o next_o argument_n proceed_v thus_o such_o parent_n if_o they_o be_v now_o to_o be_v baptise_a ought_v not_o to_o be_v baptise_a ergo_fw-la can_v challenge_v it_o for_o their_o child_n the_o reason_n be_v because_o baptism_n belong_v primary_o to_o the_o parent_n if_o ergo_fw-la he_o have_v no_o right_n he_o can_v give_v none_o the_o consequence_n be_v again_o deny_v and_o the_o proof_n of_o it_o for_o first_o it_o a_o receive_a maxim_n among_o the_o lawyer_n quod_fw-la fieri_fw-la non_fw-la debuit_fw-la factum_fw-la valet_fw-la suppose_v a_o unfit_a person_n baptise_a his_o baptism_n be_v not_o null_a he_o be_v a_o member_n till_o legal_o exclude_v and_o so_o have_v right_a for_o himself_o and_o he_o to_o the_o consequent_a privilege_n 2._o he_o confute_v this_o argument_n also_o by_o grant_v a_o wicked_a member_n tolerate_v to_o have_v right_a to_o all_o ordinance_n yet_o if_o he_o be_v now_o to_o be_v baptise_a he_o ought_v not_o so_o to_o be_v account_v 3._o

2._o p._n 104_o &_o 109._o etc._n etc._n but_o if_o people_n will_v be_v perverse_a and_o obstinate_a at_o their_o peril_n be_v it_o they_o can_v as_o easy_o cast_v off_o the_o cord_n of_o his_o explicite_fw-la covenant_n as_o samson_n do_v his_o wythe_n yet_o pag._n 17._o he_o say_v how_o can_v this_o discipline_n be_v exercise_v without_o a_o free_a consent_n unto_o it_o be_v this_o church-relation_n be_v not_o natural_a as_o father_n and_o child_n but_o free_a when_o to_o my_o apprehension_n he_o require_v a_o explicite_fw-la covenant_n to_o make_v or_o admit_v a_o member_n as_o independent_o do_v the_o truth_n be_v as_o i_o conceive_v that_o relation_n of_o christian_n one_o to_o another_o be_v not_o free_a but_o after_o a_o sort_n natural_a and_o flow_v as_o natural_a from_o the_o covenant_n of_o christianity_n or_o regeneration_n as_o that_o of_o father_n and_o child_n brother_n and_o brother_n from_o generation_n as_o be_v more_o full_o discourse_v and_o clear_v in_o the_o tract_n aforesaid_a etc._n ibid_fw-la pag._n 125._o 126._o etc._n etc._n i_o shall_v not_o trouble_v his_o epistle_n any_o further_a but_o make_v bold_a to_o make_v some_o animadversion_n upon_o his_o book_n which_o may_v serve_v as_o a_o appendix_n to_o the_o diatribe_n there_o express_v there_o be_v late_o print_v for_o christopher_n meredith_n at_o the_o crane_n in_o paul_n churchyard_n these_o book_n master_n elton_n on_o the_o ten_o commandment_n and_o lord_n prayer_n former_o burn_v by_o the_o bishop_n doctor_n don_n late_a dean_n of_o paul_n sermon_n at_o the_o lady_n danvers_n funeral_n with_o verse_n of_o mr._n george_n herbert_n etc._n etc._n 12._o viccarsii_fw-la manuductio_fw-la ad_fw-la artem_fw-la rhetoricam_fw-la 12._o a_o letter_n of_o mr._n thomas_n shepherd_n late_a of_o new_a england_n send_v to_o r._n harlakenden_n of_o essex_n esquire_n remove_v four_o hindrance_n in_o god_n worship_n first_o how_o one_o may_v be_v rid_v of_o a_o earthly_a carnal_a heart_n sell_v to_o the_o contentment_n of_o the_o creature_n second_o of_o a_o proud_a heart_n which_o be_v unwilling_a to_o seek_v after_o to_o wait_v upon_o or_o to_o stoop_v unto_o the_o command_v of_o god_n three_o of_o a_o self-seeking_a heart_n that_o eye_n itself_o especial_o in_o the_o best_a duty_n four_o of_o a_o slighty_a heart_n of_o god_n hand_n in_o mercy_n and_o judgement_n the_o state_n of_o the_o saint_n depart_v god_n cordial_a to_o comfort_v the_o saint_n remain_v alive_a a_o sermon_n preach_v at_o the_o funeral_n of_o mistress_n smithee_n harlakenden_n wife_n of_o william_n harlakenden_n esquire_n by_o r._n josselin_n the_o christian_a centurion_n observation_n advice_n and_o resolution_n concern_v matter_n divine_a and_o moral_a by_o philip_n skippon_n serjeant_n major_a general_n etc._n etc._n also_o two_o other_o book_n former_o publish_v by_o the_o same_o author_n viz._n first_o a_o collection_n of_o promise_n second_o a_o true_a treasure_n or_o thirty_o holy_a vow_n etc._n etc._n a_o learned_a and_o full_a answer_n to_o a_o treatise_n entitle_v the_o vanity_n of_o childish_a baptism_n etc._n etc._n by_o william_n cook_n minister_n of_o moxall_n in_o warwickshire_n vindiciae_fw-la redemptionis_fw-la in_o the_o fannings_n and_o sift_n of_o samuel_n oat_n his_o exposition_n upon_o matth._n 13.44_o by_o john_n stalham_n pastor_n of_o the_o church_n at_o terling_n in_o essex_n the_o sum_n of_o a_o conference_n at_o terling_n in_o essex_n concernning_a infant_n baptism_n john_n gear_n reply_v to_o doctor_n boughen_n touch_v the_o coronation_n oath_n two_o book_n of_o his_o in_o defence_n of_o infant_n baptism_n in_o answer_n to_o mr._n tomb_n objection_n a_o sober_a answer_n to_o a_o serious_a question_n propound_v and_o publish_v by_o g._n f._n whether_o the_o minister_n of_o england_n be_v bind_v by_o the_o word_n of_o god_n to_o baptise_v the_o child_n of_o all_o such_o parent_n which_o say_v they_o believe_v in_o jesus_n christ_n but_o be_v gross_o ignorant_a scandalous_a in_o their_o conversation_n scoffer_n at_o godliness_n and_o refuse_v to_o submit_v to_o church-discipline_n the_o negative_a be_v not_o sufficient_o defend_v before_o i_o fall_v upon_o the_o discourse_n itself_o i_o shall_v take_v leave_n a_o little_a to_o consider_v the_o state_n of_o the_o question_n and_o i_o desire_v to_o be_v satisfy_v by_o the_o reverend_a author_n whether_o he_o intend_v that_o all_o these_o qualification_n in_o his_o question_n must_v meet_v joint_o in_o one_o man_n or_o he_o mean_v it_o separately_z and_o single_o of_o any_o one_o of_o they_o as_o sufficient_a to_o debarr_v his_o child_n baptism_n if_o joint_o that_o all_o these_o must_v concur_v he_o will_v hardly_o or_o very_o rare_o find_v all_o these_o together_o in_o one_o man_n for_o a_o man_n may_v be_v gross_o ignorant_a and_o yet_o not_o of_o a_o scandalous_a conversation_n or_o very_o scandalous_a and_o yet_o very_o know_v or_o both_o those_o and_o yet_o not_o profess_a scorner_n of_o godliness_n or_o none_o of_o all_o those_o yet_o not_o be_v convince_v of_o the_o necessity_n of_o it_o refuse_v to_o submit_v to_o church_n discipline_n if_o any_o one_o of_o these_o single_o will_v strip_v he_o of_o that_o privilege_n than_o the_o last_o alone_o will_v do_v it_o viz._n refusal_n to_o submit_v to_o church-discipline_n be_v a_o man_n never_o so_o know_v and_o godly_a in_o conversation_n and_o then_o i_o pray_v what_o differ_v he_o from_o the_o independent_o in_o their_o explicite_fw-la church-covenant_n this_o be_v the_o resolution_n of_o m._n hooker_n who_o our_o author_n follow_v in_o most_o of_o his_o discourse_n 11._o survey_v part_n 3_o p._n 11._o the_o pinch_n of_o the_o question_n lie_v here_o whether_o person_n non-confoederate_a and_o so_o in_o our_o sense_n not_o member_n of_o the_o church_n do_v entitle_v their_o child_n to_o the_o seal_n of_o baptism_n their_o parent_n though_o godly_a be_v yet_o unwilling_a to_o come_v into_o church-fellowship_n and_o he_o resolve_v it_o negative_o as_o our_o author_n do_v upon_o his_o ground_n partly_o and_o chief_o 3._o inconsi_v of_o independ_v way_n etc._n etc._n part_n 3._o but_o in_o that_o special_a sense_n the_o diatribe_n be_v ready_a to_o give_v he_o satisfaction_n as_o for_o the_o present_a question_n before_o we_o mr._n hooker_n reject_v it_o as_o out_o of_o question_n for_o thus_o he_o write_v ibid._n be_v not_o then_o the_o question_n whether_o wicked_a member_n while_o they_o be_v tolerate_v sinful_o in_o the_o church_n they_o and_o their_o child_n may_v partake_v of_o the_o privilege_n for_o this_o be_v beyond_o question_n nor_o do_v i_o know_v nor_o never_o hear_v it_o deny_v by_o any_o of_o o●rs_n have_v he_o live_v till_o this_o time_n he_o may_v have_v know_v and_o hear_v of_o some_o of_o we_o if_o not_o still_o they_o this_o question_n negative_o resolve_v and_o earnest_o though_o modest_o defend_v and_o to_o say_v the_o truth_n this_o question_n spring_v from_o he_o and_o seem_v a_o reasonable_a consequence_n thereof_o for_o if_o one_o refuse_v only_o to_o submit_v to_o church-discipline_n lose_v this_o privilege_n of_o ordinance_n for_o himself_o and_o he_o be_v he_o never_o so_o know_v and_o godly_a it_o seem_v very_o reasonable_a that_o such_o as_o be_v gross_o ignorant_a and_o scandalous_a in_o their_o conversation_n etc._n etc._n shall_v much_o more_o just_o be_v debar_v the_o same_o if_o it_o be_v say_v these_o be_v church-member_n though_o sinful_o tolerate_v but_o so_o be_v not_o those_o that_o refuse_v to_o come_v into_o church-fellowship_n i_o answer_v 1._o these_o be_v church_n member_n also_o at_o least_o of_o the_o catholic_a church_n as_o more_o than_o professor_n only_o true_a believer_n and_o godly_a and_o therefore_o be_v we_o think_v unjust_o debar_v the_o privilege_n of_o ordinance_n for_o themselves_o and_o they_o not_o be_v convince_v of_o the_o necessity_n of_o their_o church-government_n as_o be_v large_o discourse_v in_o the_o place_n aforesaid_a 2._o we_o may_v suppose_v easy_o that_o some_o that_o be_v from_o their_o infancy_n church-member_n yet_o grow_v up_o be_v scruple_v in_o the_o point_n of_o church-discipline_n and_o so_o not_o willing_a to_o submit_v to_o it_o these_o also_o be_v yet_o tolerate_v i_o say_v not_o sinful_o in_o the_o church_n and_o so_o ought_v not_o to_o be_v debar_v the_o former_a privilege_n by_o his_o own_o principle_n 3._o our_o author_n that_o have_v start_v a_o new_a question_n out_o of_o question_n with_o mr._n hooker_n oftentimes_o profess_v as_o we_o shall_v hear_v anon_o that_o the_o worst_a of_o these_o tolerate_a sinful_o while_o tolerate_v have_v right_a to_o ordinance_n for_o themselves_o and_o they_o and_o so_o the_o controversy_n be_v at_o a_o end_n this_o principle_n answer_v and_o overthrow_v all_o his_o argument_n but_o because_o the_o former_a diatribe_n with_o mr._n hooker_n may_v receive_v light_a and_o strength_n from_o this_o contest_v i_o shall_v take_v into_o

profane_a yet_o my_o pre-parent_n be_v godly_a it_o seem_v by_o this_o new_a doctrine_n to_o use_v his_o own_o word_n this_o poor_a child_n must_v not_o now_o go_v and_o lay_v hold_v of_o this_o promise_n and_o spread_v it_o before_o god_n etc._n etc._n for_o sure_o if_o god_n will_v not_o so_o much_o as_o give_v to_o this_o grandchild_n the_o outward_a seal_n of_o the_o covenant_n by_o virtue_n of_o the_o proparent_n or_o grandfather_n it_o can_v plead_v the_o promise_n which_o come_v by_o he_o let_v his_o own_o experience_n in_o make_v use_n of_o these_o promise_n teach_v he_o more_o mercy_n and_o charity_n to_o grandchild_n but_o he_o argue_v against_o we_o thus_o if_o predecessor_n give_v right_a than_o the_o child_n of_o a_o immediate_a parent_n apostatise_v from_o the_o faith_n and_o excommunicate_v from_o the_o church_n may_v be_v baptise_a etc._n etc._n and_o then_o the_o child_n of_o our_o english_a apostate_n in_o turkey_n may_v be_v baptize_v etc._n etc._n we_o fear_v not_o to_o affirm_v they_o may_v if_o either_o they_o will_v resign_v they_o up_o to_o those_o that_o be_v christian_n their_o kindred_n or_o other_o or_o any_o will_v undertake_v for_o their_o education_n but_o in_o particular_a first_o for_o the_o case_n of_o a_o apostate_n it_o be_v answer_v elsewhere_o in_o the_o diatrib_n p._n 188._o and_o we_o add_v now_o that_o a_o apostate_n renounce_v his_o christanity_n renounce_v also_o with_o it_o his_o baptism_n and_o so_o turn_v heathen_a and_o that_o alter_v the_o case_n except_z as_o afore_o he_o be_v willing_a to_o give_v it_o up_o to_o such_o as_o will_v undertake_v for_o it_o but_o than_o second_o for_o the_o excommunicate_a parent_n for_o if_o but_o one_o be_v a_o member_n the_o child_n have_v right_a to_o baptism_n for_o such_o parent_n we_o say_v their_o case_n be_v not_o the_o same_o with_o a_o apostate_n or_o heathen_a for_o though_o in_o some_o respect_n a_o excommunicate_a person_n be_v worse_a than_o a_o infidel_n as_o the_o apostle_n speak_v of_o a_o man_n that_o provide_v not_o for_o his_o family_n though_o not_o excommunicate_v because_o he_o shall_v be_v better_o etc._n etc._n yet_o in_o regard_n of_o state_n and_o church-priviledge_n he_o be_v better_a for_o first_o he_o be_v for_o state_n still_o a_o christian_n and_o retain_v his_o baptism_n which_o a_o infidel_n have_v not_o 2._o he_o be_v a_o member_n still_o though_o disease_a much_o and_o a_o member_n under_o cure_n as_o the_o leper_n of_o old_a shut_v out_o of_o the_o camp_n be_v which_o a_o infidel_n be_v not_o he_o be_v i_o say_v a_o member_n in_o a_o large_a sense_n as_o he_o speak_v of_o a_o scandalous_a person_n tolerate_v p._n 41._o 3._o heathen_a and_o non-member_n of_o church_n when_o they_o be_v take_v into_o a_o church_n they_o be_v baptise_a they_o be_v his_o own_o word_n pag._n 42._o but_o so_o be_v not_o a_o excommunicate_a person_n therefore_o his_o state_n be_v better_a than_o they_o he_o be_v neither_o heathen_a nor_o non-member_n ergo_fw-la a_o member_n at_o large_a four_o if_o in_o regard_n of_o church-priviledge_n he_o be_v no_o better_a than_o a_o heathen_a yet_o that_o be_v still_o in_o respect_n to_o himself_o not_o to_o his_o child_n who_o be_v bear_v a_o christian_a of_o a_o christian_a have_v right_o to_o baptism_n as_o shall_v appear_v in_o some_o case_n at_o least_o the_o child_n that_o be_v debar_v baptism_n for_o the_o parent_n excommunication_n fall_v into_o this_o punishment_n either_o when_o it_o be_v bear_v before_o his_o excommunication_n or_o after_o he_o be_v excommunicate_v if_o before_o his_o excommunication_n it_o be_v bear_v but_o not_o baptise_a before_o he_o be_v excommunicate_v than_o his_o excommunication_n can_v hinder_v its_o baptism_n for_o it_o be_v bear_v a_o member_n of_o the_o church_n be_v bear_v of_o one_o that_o be_v yet_o a_o member_n when_o it_o be_v bear_v and_o the_o personal_a sin_n of_o the_o parent_n can_v prejudice_v its_o right_n baptism_n make_v not_o a_o member_n it_o be_v one_o before_o as_o he_o speak_v pag._n 25._o of_o a_o jew_n child_n a_o member_n before_o circumcision_n whence_o thus_o i_o argue_v upon_o his_o own_o principle_n a_o member_n of_o the_o church_n may_v be_v baptise_a but_o a_o child_n of_o a_o wicked_a not_o yet_o excommunicate_v be_v bear_v a_o member_n ergo_fw-la it_o may_v be_v baptise_a though_o it_o shall_v happen_v as_o it_o may_v that_o it_o be_v not_o baptise_a before_o the_o excommunication_n it_o remain_v then_o to_o say_v either_o it_o lose_v this_o right_a to_o baptism_n if_o it_o be_v bear_v after_o the_o parent_n excommunication_n or_o not_o at_o all_o and_o now_o we_o be_v fall_v upon_o his_o argument_n p._n 9_o if_o i_o may_v baptise_v the_o child_n of_o a_o excommunicate_a person_n than_o i_o may_v baptise_v a_o child_n of_o a_o non-member_n of_o a_o church_n and_o so_o of_o a_o indian_a or_o turk_n for_o they_o be_v non_fw-fr member_n etc._n etc._n and_o he_o be_v no_o other_o in_o respect_n of_o communion_n in_o church-priviledge_n we_o answer_v by_o distinction_n of_o the_o assumption_n i_o may_v baptise_v the_o child_n of_o a_o non-member_n that_o be_v of_o one_o that_o at_o present_a be_v account_v no_o member_n as_o be_v plain_a in_o the_o case_n of_o a_o child_n bear_v but_o not_o baptize_v before_o the_o parent_n excommunicate_v and_o therefore_o this_o consequence_n of_o he_o be_v unsound_a if_o the_o parent_n be_v a_o non-member_n the_o child_n be_v a_o non-member_n also_o for_o that_o child_n be_v a_o member_n bear_v though_o the_o parent_n at_o present_a stand_v excommucate_v it_o be_v true_a only_a of_o a_o infidel_n or_o apostate_n who_o be_v no_o member_n but_o a_o excommunicate_a person_n be_v in_o some_o sense_n a_o member_n still_o as_o be_v say_v above_o and_o then_o to_o baptise_v such_o a_o one_o be_v not_o to_o baptise_v a_o non-member_n that_o observation_n of_o reverend_a gillespy_n from_o buxtorf_n etc._n etc._n be_v not_o very_a orthodox_n though_o true_a perhaps_o in_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o latter_a jew_n that_o a_o child_n of_o a_o excommunicate_a ought_v not_o to_o be_v circumcise_v it_o be_v if_o do_v a_o corrupt_a invention_n and_o tradition_n of_o their_o own_o of_o which_o there_o be_v no_o ground_n in_o scripture_n and_o therefore_o pag._n 32._o he_o do_v well_o to_o wave_v it_o we_o shall_v not_o stand_v to_o vindicate_v those_o holy_a and_o learned_a man_n zanchy_a and_o perkins_n who_o plead_v for_o the_o baptism_n of_o child_n of_o parent_n excommunicate_v p._n 11._o that_o which_o have_v be_v say_v may_v help_v towards_o it_o we_o come_v to_o a_o new_a question_n start_v p._n 13_o whether_o profession_n of_o faith_n in_o christ_n though_o parent_n be_v gross_o ignorant_a scandalous_a &c_n &c_n be_v sufficient_a to_o make_v a_o man_n and_o continue_v he_o a_o member_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n to_o which_o we_o say_v in_o general_a that_o our_o main_a question_n be_v not_o about_o make_v or_o continue_v a_o man_n a_o member_n of_o a_o church_n but_o whether_o a_o man_n qualify_v as_o in_o the_o question_n continue_v and_o tolerate_v a_o member_n of_o the_o church_n can_v give_v right_a to_o to_o his_o child_n baptism_n and_o this_o he_o do_v express_o resolve_v in_o the_o affirmative_a at_o least_o three_o time_n once_o thus_o of_o a_o jewish_a parent_n wicked_a not_o excommunicate_v doubtless_o so_o long_o the_o immediate_a parent_n be_v not_o cast_v off_o from_o give_v a_o right_a to_o his_o child_n p._n 13._o again_o in_o the_o same_o pag_n if_o a_o member_n be_v very_o scandalous_a and_o the_o church_n let_v he_o alone_o that_o person_n may_v challenge_v any_o ordinance_n in_o the_o church_n both_o baptism_n and_o lord_n supper_n again_o pag._n 34_o wicked_a person_n so_o long_o as_o they_o continue_v member_n and_o the_o church_n let_v they_o alone_o they_o may_v challenge_v baptism_n whence_o i_o will_v conclude_v the_o contradictory_n to_o his_o conclusion_n in_o this_o manner_n the_o child_n of_o a_o scandalous_a member_n tolerate_v may_v be_v baptise_a but_o the_o child_n of_o a_o scandalous_a member_n not_o excommunicate_v be_v the_o child_n of_o a_o scandalous_a member_n tolerate_v ergo_fw-la it_o may_v be_v baptise_a and_o a_o minister_n may_v lawful_o baptise_v it_o all_o he_o say_v to_o this_o be_v this_o pag._n 13._o and_o 34_o our_o question_n be_v whether_o such_o person_n shall_v be_v let_v alone_o be_v not_o that_o church_n too_o blame_v but_o by_o his_o favour_n the_o question_n be_v not_o whether_o such_o person_n shall_v be_v suffer_v or_o the_o church_n be_v too_o blame_v to_o suffer_v they_o but_o whether_o such_o be_v suffer_v in_o the_o church_n their_o child_n ought_v to_o be_v baptise_a and_o though_o he_o undertake_v the_o negative_a yet_o he_o determin_n the_o question_n here_o affirmative_o

argument_n from_o the_o jew_n to_o be_v good_a and_o also_o the_o main_a question_n that_o such_o person_n if_o tolerate_v may_v give_v right_a to_o their_o child_n baptism_n and_o minister_n not_o only_o may_v but_o be_v bind_v to_o baptise_v they_o against_o which_o he_o have_v all_o this_o while_n dispute_v only_o he_o say_v our_o question_n be_v whether_o such_o person_n shall_v be_v let_v alone_o be_v not_o that_o church_n too_o blame_v aught_o such_o de_fw-fr jure_fw-la to_o be_v member_n no_o the_o question_n be_v whether_o such_o person_n while_o suffer_v in_o the_o church_n have_v right_a to_o give_v their_o child_n baptism_n and_o that_o be_v full_o grant_v 5._o for_o more_o exactness_n in_o the_o church_n of_o the_o gospel_n in_o divers_a respect_n we_o dissent_v not_o so_o it_o be_v not_o beyond_o the_o rule_n but_o as_o he_o dislike_v the_o rigidness_n which_o some_o he_o mean_v the_o independent_o will_v have_v in_o admission_n of_o member_n to_o church-communion_n so_o we_o dislike_v his_o rigidness_n in_o admission_n of_o child_n to_o baptism_n all_o that_o discourse_n concern_v the_o sense_n of_o 1_o cor._n 5.11_o for_o many_o page_n together_o i_o purposely_o pass_v by_o as_o lead_v into_o another_o controversy_n i_o shall_v only_o consider_v that_o question_v propound_v pag._n 42._o as_o his_o advice_n for_o the_o reformation_n of_o our_o congregation_n which_o be_v this_o whether_o it_o be_v not_o better_o for_o the_o minister_n of_o england_n as_o they_o do_v suspend_v person_n from_o the_o lord_n supper_n so_o also_o for_o a_o time_n to_o suspend_v they_o from_o baptise_v their_o child_n and_o in_o the_o mean_a time_n minister_n to_o follow_v catechise_v close_o &_o c_o to_o which_o i_o have_v these_o thing_n to_o say_v 1._o it_o proceed_v upon_o a_o erroneous_a at_o least_o a_o doubtful_a practice_n that_o minister_n have_v do_v well_o in_o suspend_v so_o long_o such_o man_n their_o whole_a parish_n from_o the_o lord_n supper_n of_o which_o something_a have_v be_v say_v above_o this_o way_n as_o it_o have_v give_v occasion_n to_o some_o to_o separate_v and_o join_v themselves_o to_o independent_a church_n as_o want_v with_o we_o a_o ordinance_n so_o it_o have_v make_v other_o more_o profane_a than_o before_o who_o be_v something_o awe_v by_o their_o approach_n to_o that_o sacrament_n 2._o for_o the_o inference_n from_o that_o practice_n i_o say_v if_o they_o do_v and_o do_v well_o in_o suspend_v such_o from_o the_o supper_n yet_o it_o be_v not_o safe_a or_o expedient_a in_o my_o judgement_n to_o suspend_v they_o from_o the_o other_o for_o their_o child_n as_o thing_n now_o stand_v in_o england_n for_o beside_o what_o have_v be_v say_v in_o behalf_n of_o poor_a child_n above_o i_o observe_v 1._o if_o one_o baptise_v they_o not_o another_z of_o another_o judgement_n shall_v and_o will_v and_o who_o can_v hinder_v it_o this_o increase_v the_o division_n betwixt_o minister_n by_o other_o intermeddle_v within_o their_o charge_n and_o congregation_n 2._o this_o will_v be_v one_o way_n to_o make_v the_o next_o generation_n no_o better_a than_o infidel_n for_o the_o most_o part_n be_v all_o unbaptised_a or_o else_o profane_a and_o ignorant_a as_o be_v without_o the_o care_n of_o the_o church_n 3._o this_o will_v exasperate_v the_o parent_n be_v profane_a and_o desperate_a enough_o already_o against_o their_o minister_n and_o so_o not_o only_o prejudice_v they_o in_o their_o maintenance_n however_o he_o find_v it_o otherwise_o by_o the_o power_n of_o some_o friend_n but_o also_o alienate_v their_o mind_n more_o from_o the_o desire_a reformation_n 4._o this_o be_v contrary_a to_o the_o express_a rule_n to_o punish_v the_o poor_a child_n for_o the_o parent_n personal_a fault_n at_o least_o in_o some_o case_n as_o be_v manifest_v above_o 5._o this_o be_v contrary_a to_o his_o own_o principle_n who_o have_v often_o grant_v that_o while_o such_o parent_n as_o in_o the_o question_n be_v suffer_v in_o the_o church_n they_o have_v right_a for_o themselves_o and_o they_o and_o you_o must_v not_o deny_v it_o if_o you_o own_v they_o for_o church-member_n however_o custom_n have_v prevail_v to_o the_o exclusion_n of_o they_o from_o it_o without_o regular_a proceed_n etc._n etc._n pag._n 42._o etc._n if_o the_o church_n shall_v tolerate_v such_o evil_n etc._n etc._n they_o can_v deny_v they_o the_o privilege_n of_o member_n survey_v part_v 3._o p._n 11._o and_o he_o instance_n in_o the_o church_n of_o sardis_n etc._n etc._n now_o both_o mr._n hooker_n survey_v part_v 3._o pag._n 11._o and_o himself_z have_v often_o yield_v they_o to_o be_v member_n to_o all_o privilege_n of_o the_o church_n while_o sinful_o tolerate_v and_o as_o for_o that_o regular_a proceed_n to_o reform_v they_o by_o suspension_n or_o eject_v they_o by_o excommunication_n it_o be_v not_o in_o the_o power_n of_o any_o minister_n alone_o and_o therefore_o not_o only_o unjust_a if_o they_o shall_v usurp_v it_o but_o also_o impossible_a as_o our_o church_n yet_o stand_v for_o the_o most_o part_n unpresbyter_v and_o without_o a_o settle_a government_n whence_o a_o new_a ground_n of_o obloquy_n and_o reproach_n will_v be_v offer_v to_o anabaptist_n and_o independent_o yea_o and_o to_o profane_a people_n too_o to_o charge_v our_o church_n at_o least_o our_o minister_n as_o antichristian_a for_o usurp_v not_o only_o a_o bishop-like_a but_o a_o pope-like_a power_n in_o every_o parish_n the_o thing_n so_o much_o fear_v in_o the_o presbytery_n what_o remain_v then_o but_o that_o it_o be_v a_o better_a way_n to_o reform_v our_o congregation_n if_o the_o magistrate_n can_v be_v prevail_v with_o to_o settle_v a_o right_a government_n in_o the_o church_n which_o all_o congregation_n shall_v be_v bind_v to_o submit_v to_o or_o else_o to_o execute_v justice_n upon_o notorious_a offender_n and_o scandalous_a person_n the_o minister_n in_o the_o mean_a time_n follow_v catechise_v close_o to_o breed_v knowledge_n in_o their_o people_n and_o labour_v to_o reform_v they_o from_o a_o scandalous_a conversation_n by_o all_o the_o gentle_a persuasion_n and_o meekness_n of_o wisdom_n which_o god_n shall_v give_v they_o that_o so_o when_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o magistrate_n have_v civilise_v at_o least_o their_o conversation_n and_o by_o catechise_v they_o have_v get_v knowledge_n we_o may_v then_o with_o more_o comfort_n give_v they_o the_o privilege_n of_o both_o the_o ordinance_n in_o the_o mean_a time_n such_o be_v the_o strait_n some_o man_n have_v bring_v we_o into_o no_o better_a way_n in_o my_o shallow_a head_n than_o to_o press_v hard_o upon_o such_o parent_n the_o condition_n of_o the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n at_o the_o time_n of_o baptism_n or_o other_o time_n the_o duty_n of_o parent_n with_o respect_n to_o their_o own_o baptism_n and_o their_o child_n as_o by_o this_o seal_n engage_v both_o of_o they_o to_o be_v god_n people_n that_o be_v to_o know_v he_o to_o fear_v he_o to_o love_v he_o to_o trust_v in_o he_o to_o delight_v in_o he_o and_o to_o obey_v he_o in_o all_o his_o holy_a command_n deliver_v in_o the_o word_n and_o all_o this_o as_o they_o expect_v the_o performance_n of_o the_o covenant_n on_o god_n part_n to_o be_v their_o god_n by_o all_o which_o faithful_o and_o earnest_o press_v upon_o they_o they_o may_v by_o the_o blessing_n of_o god_n upon_o our_o labour_n be_v qualify_v according_a to_o his_o own_o rule_n deliver_v in_o his_o epistle_n by_o which_o he_o practise_v viz._n 1._o see_v and_o profess_v the_o sense_n of_o their_o own_o undo_v condition_n by_o sin_n and_o utter_a inability_n to_o help_v themselves_o but_o by_o rely_v upon_o christ_n 2._o have_v competent_a knowledge_n 3._o have_v their_o conversation_n such_o as_o do_v not_o cross_v their_o profession_n by_o live_v in_o any_o know_a sin_n or_o omit_v any_o know_a duty_n as_o pray_v and_o catechise_n in_o their_o family_n etc._n etc._n and_o last_o profess_v if_o it_o be_v necessary_a their_o subjection_n to_o discipline_n to_o tie_v they_o fast_o by_o a_o new_a obligation_n to_o a_o duty_n to_o which_o they_o be_v bind_v before_o by_o their_o covenant_n of_o christianity_n finis_fw-la